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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: black_biff_stadler on February 11, 2017, 07:11:22 PM
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2015 NFL THREAD (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43237.0)
2014 NFL THREAD (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=40900.0)
2013 NFL THREAD (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36033.0)
2012 NFL THREAD (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=31774.0)
It's interesting to think that with a Super Bowl title next year, the Pats can, in one fell swoop, manage to eliminate arguing points for all but one of the counterpoints against their claim to being the greatest NFL dynasty ever (the one being the Packers' 3peat from 1965-67.)
It'd give them 6 titles which no coach/QB nucleus has ever had within a continuous dynasty which gives them the leg up on the 60s Packers and 80s/90s 49ers as well as give them a second repeat so the Steelers wouldn't be able to have that claim to hold over the Pats' heads.
Interestingly enough, it'd be the second time the Pats have won 3 titles in 4 years with the second year of that span being the missing year.
I guess for now, I'd lean toward a Pats/Packers matchup for SB LII but I wouldn't even bet $10 on it. The Packers just happen to be the NFC team who's most difficult to argue against their worthiness as a SB contender at this point imo. In the AFC, I don't think any other team has even half the chance that the Patriots do to make it to the SB but upsets happen all the time so who knows.
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Why the Packers? What about Dallas? Do you think they'll come down to earth? And I am still not discounting the Falcons.
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I hope you are correct Josh. So damn weird to have the feeling every year that you could get to the SB.
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So the Patriots have 61m in cap space right now, and it'll likely go up to 67m. Their free agency issues aren't all that bad, even after they dump a truck full of money onto Dont'a Hightower's front yard. Jimmy Garopalo is the best QB in the draft this year. Owner's of the top 3 picks all need QB's and JG is going to start a bidding war between them. A full NFL season is an impossible thing to predict, but the drop between the best bet and the second best is pretty steep. There's really no team other than NE to bank on right now.
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Belichick is a top three coach and GM ever IMO, with a great owner. Top 5 owner I'll say easily. So it would be unreasonable to expect other franchises to replicate something similar. Especially because no one has, and maybe no one will to this degree in this era or beyond.
That said, this just has continuously showed that it's not about a bunch of top players, but a system or community with people buying in as a unified 22. Well, 22+ with special teams. Why else the constant reloading with virtually perfectly sustained relevance. With my hometown team (DET) being my team B, and hearing CLE and CIN fans talk here in Ohio; oh man, we got this pick, and that pick. Maybe we can get _____. NFL is not about that vs. NBA, yet many teams and fans seem to still fall into that trap.
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Jimmy Garopalo is the best QB in the draft this year.
We've seen this story a couple of times. A Patriot's backup QB generating a bunch of hype. Then they go to their new team and disappoint the hell out of everybody, bounce around the league for a few years and then fade into obscurity(Matt Cassel). I'd think that most teams would be wary of giving them a high round draft pick for him.
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Jimmy Garopalo is the best QB in the draft this year.
We've seen this story a couple of times. A Patriot's backup QB generating a bunch of hype. Then they go to their new team and disappoint the hell out of everybody, bounce around the league for a few years and then fade into obscurity(Matt Cassel). I'd think that most teams would be wary of giving them a high round draft pick for him.
Agreed. Besides, what has he done? Looked good for six quarters and then got hurt. So a team is going to give up a lot for a QB who lucked into a 4-game tryout and couldn't even last a game and a half before getting hurt? Good luck with that.
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Jimmy Garopalo is the best QB in the draft this year.
We've seen this story a couple of times. A Patriot's backup QB generating a bunch of hype. Then they go to their new team and disappoint the hell out of everybody, bounce around the league for a few years and then fade into obscurity(Matt Cassel). I'd think that most teams would be wary of giving you them a high round draft pick for him.
Agreed. Besides, what has he done? Looked good for six quarters and then got hurt. So a team is going to give up a lot for a QB who lucked into a 4-game tryout and couldn't even last a game and a half before getting hurt? Good luck with that.
Not to be contrarian, but a "dynasty" is defined as several championships within a SHORT period of time. They went 10 years without one. A couple of mini-dynasties may be more accurate. Semantics I guess.
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Okay, but what does that have to do with my post? :lol :biggrin:
Some chatter lately has been about how the Pats dynasty compares to others in football. Even though it is incredible what they have done in the free agency era, the Steelers won four Super Bowls in six years and was loaded with Hall of Famers. It will be hard for any team to ever top that. I don't think they beat the 49ers either, who won four Super Bowls in nine years and had to compete with Gibbs' Redkins and Parcells' Giants every year. The Patriots lack of Hall of Famers, when it is all said and done, will make it hard to put them ahead of those two dynasties. I think this run says more about Belichick and Brady than anything else.
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Kev, there is an argument against Brady from one of the local sports radio hosts when compared to Montana that Brady is 5 for 7 in the Super Bowl, so he lost two, versus Montana who is undefeated in his 4 so therefore Brady can't be better than Montana. I don't agree with it but that's the argument.
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Kev, there is an argument against Brady from one of the local sports radio hosts when compared to Montana that Brady is 5 for 7 in the Super Bowl, so he lost two, versus Montana who is undefeated in his 4 so therefore Brady can't be better than Montana. I don't agree with it but that's the argument.
I think it's a poor argument, and here is why:
1) Both of these guys played over 200 games, and we are going to boil down who is better to a 4-game sample size??
2) If we are going to look at Super Bowls, first off, Brady has now won more. Second, saying that 4-0 > 5-2 in this context implies that it is better to lose earlier in the playoffs.
Consider:
-the four best playoff finishes of both guys, winning the Super Bowl, is a push. Both have won three Super Bowl MVPs, so that is a wash.
-Montana's 5th best playoff finish was losing in the conference championship game; Brady's 5th best playoff finish was winning another Super Bowl.
-Montana's 6th best playoff finish was losing in the conference championship game; Brady's 6th best playoff finish was losing in the Super Bowl.
-Montana's 7th best playoff finish was losing in the conference championship game; Brady's 7th best playoff finish was losing in the Super Bowl.
Edge: Brady
3) If we look at the playoffs overall, Montana has the edge in individual play (95.6 passer rating vs 89.0), while Brady has the better record (25-9 vs 16-7).
Now, regarding individual play in the Super Bowl, Montana has the obvious edge: 11-0 TD-INT ratio > 15-5, plus Montana's offense averaged 35 points per game in his four Super Bowls, while Brady's has only averaged 23 points per game in seven. Brady clearly benefited greatly by having the best coach ever, plus the best kicker ever in his first three Super Bowls, but Montana benefited greatly by playing in the most innovative offense the NFL has ever seen, at its inception. It's a tough call. And I think Montana gets extra points for playing in era where you could legally knock the crap out of the QB, while Brady plays in an era where it's a penalty to breathe on the QB sometimes.
I just think the 4-0 > 5-2 argument is a very poor one. There are strong arguments for Montana still being ahead of Brady (although I put Brady and Peyton both ahead of him), but that is not one of them.
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Kev, there is an argument against Brady from one of the local sports radio hosts when compared to Montana that Brady is 5 for 7 in the Super Bowl, so he lost two, versus Montana who is undefeated in his 4 so therefore Brady can't be better than Montana. I don't agree with it but that's the argument.
Niners fans love to throw that one out there, and they used to always use the 5 for 5 argument for the team until they lost to the Ravens. As a Niners fan, I think that argument is total BS. Super Bowl appearances are a good thing. Going to more of them is an accomplishment, even if you lose.
That said, Montana was very impressive in his Super Bowl appearances.
Edit: I see Kev already wrote up a good response.
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I just think the 4-0 > 5-2 argument is a very poor one. There are strong arguments for Montana still being ahead of Brady (although I put Brady and Peyton both ahead of him), but that is not one of them.
I agree Kev. No issue if someone want to pump Montana, but that is not the right argument. That just means Brady won 3 more Conference Championship games.
And correction: Brady now has FOUR SB MVP's. :)
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Ah, right. I stand corrected. :facepalm:
However, it should be three, since that first one was totally undeserved, although he's certainly not the first guy to win the MVP for one play or one drive. Desmond Howard, anyone? :lol
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As for the ten year gap... I think that weighs in for Brady as well. In football - where many careers are measured in single digit GAMES, to be at that level of excellence for more than a DECADE is unbelievable. And while the gap in WINS was ten years, that doesn't mean they rolled up the tent and didn't play. In that gap, they were in the playoffs nine out of ten years, in the Super Bowl twice, and made the AFC Championship three other times. I think there are easy 20 teams in the league right now that would settle for a ten year run where they make the playoffs nine out of ten years, let alone all the other things.
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The reason they had that gap was the defense for at least 7 of those years with less than average. The Pats became the Colts. If they has a team that could pressure Brady with 4 guys that would slow down the offense and the D for the most part gave up more points. If you look at the last 2 SB's their D has been better than average.
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Jimmy Garopalo is the best QB in the draft this year.
We've seen this story a couple of times. A Patriot's backup QB generating a bunch of hype. Then they go to their new team and disappoint the hell out of everybody, bounce around the league for a few years and then fade into obscurity(Matt Cassel). I'd think that most teams would be wary of giving them a high round draft pick for him.
Agreed. Besides, what has he done? Looked good for six quarters and then got hurt. So a team is going to give up a lot for a QB who lucked into a 4-game tryout and couldn't even last a game and a half before getting hurt? Good luck with that.
So it doesn't look like a good deal. Neither did a whole lot of FA moves in the past and they still got made. But JG has an advantage the other guys didn't.He's still under contract for dirt cheap for another year. This isn't buying sight unseen. This is obtaining a one year test drive. So a team like Cleveland or San Francisco could draft Trubisky, sign him to 12th overall pick money and then pray to their gods that he's not awful, or they could use that pick on JG and see what he's got. And from what I've seen JG is more likely to be the better player anyway.
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So the Patriots have 61m in cap space right now, and it'll likely go up to 67m. Their free agency issues aren't all that bad, even after they dump a truck full of money onto Dont'a Hightower's front yard. Jimmy Garopalo is the best QB in the draft this year. Owner's of the top 3 picks all need QB's and JG is going to start a bidding war between them. A full NFL season is an impossible thing to predict, but the drop between the best bet and the second best is pretty steep. There's really no team other than NE to bank on right now.
Belichick gets a lot of praise for being a coach, but sometimes you don't realize how good of a GM he is as well. How such a good team can have all that cap space as well as a bench player that people want... is insane.
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Sad to see the Giants cut Victor Cruz. It was necessary and he isn't very good anymore, but he was a really great story and had a couple magical seasons to watch as a Giants fan.
Giants cut Jennings too and I am glad. I think they need to invest in an oline before paying more to RBs since they can't run behind this line.
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Ah, right. I stand corrected. :facepalm:
However, it should be three, since that first one was totally undeserved, although he's certainly not the first guy to win the MVP for one play or one drive. Desmond Howard, anyone? :lol
I got one for ya. Larry Brown SBXXX for 2 interceptions. :rollin
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Back to the Brady vs. Montana discussion:
Joe wasn't always great in his SB appearances, either. The big head scratcher is his MVP performance in SB XVI.
From the wiki article: "Montana was named the Super Bowl MVP, completing 14 of 22 passes for 157 yards and one touchdown, while also rushing for 18 yards and a touchdown on the ground."
I'm one of those in the minority that still considers him to be better than Brady, but that SB win was more about the 49ers defense shutting down the Bengals at the goal line than the play of their offense.
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Hey, it's rarefied air and it's his idol. That's good enough for me.
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I grew up watching Montana. Not to take anything away from him, but there is nothing I saw him do that I haven't seen Brady do. And Brady has done more of it. And Joe's last couple of seasons, it was obvious he was in the twilight of his career. Not saying he was bad by any stretch. But you could tell he was almost done. With Brady, I'm not seeing anything indicating he is near the end. I think, all told, he will play longer than Montana, and he could easily win another SB or two in that time.
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I grew up watching Montana. Not to take anything away from him, but there is nothing I saw him do that I haven't seen Brady do. And Brady has done more of it. And Joe's last couple of seasons, it was obvious he was in the twilight of his career. Not saying he was bad by any stretch. But you could tell he was almost done. With Brady, I'm not seeing anything indicating he is near the end. I think, all told, he will play longer than Montana, and he could easily win another SB or two in that time.
In response this, I dump Kev's quote;
The Patriots lack of Hall of Famers, when it is all said and done, will make it hard to put them ahead of those two dynasties. I think this run says more about Belichick and Brady than anything else.
So to combine this all; sure, JM could have won more. But his teams were also much more stacked by comparison. The closet thing Brady had to a lot of those SF teams IMO was 2007's 18-1. And Brady pretty much blew the doors off that year. Looking at the numbers, JM's teams more often than not were top 5 in offense and defense, if not one or two ranked. And that includes years he did not make the SB.
Also consider that a QB (Young) who I could debate is nearly as good only won one more SB, with the teams JM would have had.
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I can't tell whether you are arguing in favor of the 49ers or Pats. :lol But this 49ers fan would easily put the current Pats dynasty ahead of the 49ers dynast(ies).
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Just against Montana at this point. ;D But I get I kinda went a bit around the bush there. This coming from a NE fan who was calling for Brady to go in 2013. :-X :eek
I do question what Montana would have done if Young didn't take over, and if he didn't have to split time in that one year. Or if Young was equally as good as Montana.
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Brady to go in 2013? And name me a replacement at his level at 2013?
Let's be honest. Unbalanced team can win "A" SB. A balanced team can multiple. I've said this before but the D in the late 2000's and up to 2013 were less than average. You have 1 game that you shit down an offense and you win.
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You have 1 game that you shit down an offense and you win.
Quoting for greatness.
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It still works. :lol
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You have 1 game that you shit down an offense and you win.
It's an epic showdown in the Toilet Bowl!
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Tim, you'd lose.
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There is no doubt! :lol
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:lol
Damn skippy.
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Brady to go in 2013? And name me a replacement at his level at 2013?
Yeah, that's why I had the shocked face. He had a good not great year in 2013 number wise vs. his previous handful of years. Please don't talk about his WRs and Gronk being out, just commenting on Brady. He was looking backwards at his 30s. Nothing to do with a better replacement, but more so downward trending plus NE moving on from players early vs. later. Clearly I was wrong.
That being said, he cannot escape time forever.
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No doubt but us fans text d to go overboard when it comes to 1 bad season. Because of his age we look for the decline buy damn if he doesn't prove us wrong.
I'll just be happy to say I got to see this run Tom had that no one thought we'd never see here in N.E.
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I grew up watching Montana. Not to take anything away from him, but there is nothing I saw him do that I haven't seen Brady do. And Brady has done more of it. And Joe's last couple of seasons, it was obvious he was in the twilight of his career. Not saying he was bad by any stretch. But you could tell he was almost done. With Brady, I'm not seeing anything indicating he is near the end. I think, all told, he will play longer than Montana, and he could easily win another SB or two in that time.
In response this, I dump Kev's quote;
The Patriots lack of Hall of Famers, when it is all said and done, will make it hard to put them ahead of those two dynasties. I think this run says more about Belichick and Brady than anything else.
So to combine this all; sure, JM could have won more. But his teams were also much more stacked by comparison. The closet thing Brady had to a lot of those SF teams IMO was 2007's 18-1. And Brady pretty much blew the doors off that year. Looking at the numbers, JM's teams more often than not were top 5 in offense and defense, if not one or two ranked. And that includes years he did not make the SB.
Also consider that a QB (Young) who I could debate is nearly as good only won one more SB, with the teams JM would have had.
I understand the argument certain players had/have more weapons to work with, so their accomplishments may not shine as brightly as someone that has less to work with. I don't really agree with it, though. I do have a bias, however. My favorite team has benefited from a glut of Hall of Fame talent in the Super Bowl era, so my view on the subject might be tainted.
I'm usually of the mind-set that a lot of times legendary players that play with other great/legendary players often play a big role in making each other great.(Terrible sentence, but I couldn't think of a better way to word it) To put it another way, lone legends/hall of fame players without a significant teammate is a rare occurrence. Guys like Dick Butkus just don't happen too often. This might come off sounding like an argument in Tom's favor, but it's intended to be an argument not to hold the success of others against Joe.
And don't get me wrong, if I had to make a list, Tom is firmly entrenched at #2. I just thought that there was something "other worldly" special about Joe.
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Joe's other-worldly quality, at least I always thought, was his coolness under pressure. Dude seemed to have ice in his veins. After the SB comeback I think we all saw that Brady is just as unflappable.
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Joe's other-worldly quality, at least I always thought, was his coolness under pressure. Dude seemed to have ice in his veins. After the SB comeback I think we all saw that Brady is just as unflappable.
And I love that; Montana used to have that little smirk on his face and it seemed to glow a little bigger as the game wore on. Growing up a Giant fan, I was used to QBs with that "deer in headlights" look, and it was common to see the pressure fold a QB like a tin can. So it's a trait I respect a lot now as I'm older, and I think Brady and Montana both had/have it (Rodgers, Bradshaw and Stabler too). As successful as he is, I look at a Joe Flacco, and he always looks scared under center. McNabb was like that, as is Rivers now.
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A friend and I were talking the other day about who'd we put in the NFL all-time top 5. It's hard to put anyone pre-1980 in there for me since I never saw those guys play, but I think my top 5 is pretty stellar (listed alphabetically):
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Joe Montana
Jerry Rice
Lawrence Taylor
It was tough not putting a RB up there, but of Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Walter Payton, I couldn't decide which one I would put highest.
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Yeah, I like your top 4. And I don't dislike including LT, but just feel like there is someone else that could be up there ahead of him. But still, can't really argue too much with any of those choices.
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It was tough not putting a RB up there, but of Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Walter Payton, I couldn't decide which one I would put highest.
I would probably lean towards Barry Sanders, but there's no clear choice between those 3 players. All of them are deserving of all the praise that they get.
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It was tough not putting a RB up there, but of Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Walter Payton, I couldn't decide which one I would put highest.
I would probably lean towards Barry Sanders, but there's no clear choice between those 3 players. All of them are deserving of all the praise that they get.
What about Emmitt Smith?
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It was tough not putting a RB up there, but of Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Walter Payton, I couldn't decide which one I would put highest.
I would probably lean towards Barry Sanders, but there's no clear choice between those 3 players. All of them are deserving of all the praise that they get.
What about Emmitt Smith?
Great player that deserves to be in the conversation, but I think the other 3 were better or more unique. In fact, purely from a great player aspect, OJ Simpson should be mentioned as well. I think that he's a horrible human being, but for a time he was easily one of the greatest RB's of all time.
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In fact, purely from a great player aspect, OJ Simpson should be mentioned as well.... for a time he was easily one of the greatest RB's of all time.
Those seasons, while amazing, were only a couple in number. His overall career doesn't measure up to other RBs.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/o-j-s-football-fame-was-mostly-based-on-two-great-nfl-seasons/?addata=espn:nfl:index
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In fact, purely from a great player aspect, OJ Simpson should be mentioned as well.... for a time he was easily one of the greatest RB's of all time.
Those seasons, while amazing, were only a couple in number. His overall career doesn't measure up to other RBs.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/o-j-s-football-fame-was-mostly-based-on-two-great-nfl-seasons/?addata=espn:nfl:index
True, but can you imagine 2,000+ yards in only 14 games? I find that simply amazing, and he did lead the league in rushing several times. The guy had a ton of talent on an absolutely terrible team.
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Yeah, people seem to gloss over the fact that his 2003 yards in 14 games is a clip for 2289 in 16 games. Considering how he was doing it in the brutal cold of Buffalo for at least 3 or 4 of those games there's no reasonable argument to say he wouldn't have easily gotten to at least 2200 yards if afforded those two extra games.
Similarly, for all the dicksuckery people bestow upon Jerry Rice (deservedly so), they really fuck him over royally by just acting like Randy Moss' 23 TDs is the new record without any regard for qualifying the argument by mentioning how Rice got his 22 in 1987 in just 12 games with 0 missed games by any fault of his own (injury, suspension, etc.) due to the non-scab players playing only 12 games that year due to the canceled week and 3 replacement games. At that clip he'd have had 29 TDs in a 16 game season and at the very least easily gotten the 24 TDs necessary to still be the record holder.
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Yeah, I like your top 4. And I don't dislike including LT, but just feel like there is someone else that could be up there ahead of him. But still, can't really argue too much with any of those choices.
Not arguing with you, exactly, but that is the era in which I grew up. I don't think people quite realize how he changed the game. I can remember seeing the L.A. Kings (with Gretzky) play the Hartford Whalers (my team at the time) and being MESMERIZED by his play. He was literally playing a different game. At times (and it happened more than once) I would be watching - and be aware that I played competitive hockey into college, so I know the game at least more than as a beginner - and I'd be like "what the hell is he doing??"; he'd be off in the corner, or he'd be trailing the play and seemingly out of the mix, and seconds later he's standing there, 10 feet in front of Peter Sidorkiewicz with the puck, making him look silly (the Great One had a goal and three assists, for a team that was mired in a slump at the time). It was hockey at a totally different level.
LT was the same way. Even Belichick has said he's the greatest player he's ever coached (though also "greatest DEFENSIVE player he's ever coached", and "the greatest defensive player in history"). Think about that for a second. Bill Walsh - no slouch as a coach - devised an entirely new offensive set (basically a two-tight end set) to block him, because the old way - picking up a linebacker with a running back - was laughably ineffective.
Parcells even changed his coaching style for him. It's legend that Parcells rode Phil Simms as hard as he could to get him to excel - to the point that Simms hated him and considered quitting football - whereas he let LT have a loose leash (allegedly doing coke and cavorting with hookers, even on nights before games).
LT belongs in that top five, for sure.
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Oh, I know. I grew up watching him too. If there is a singular reason why we are still having the Montana/Brady debate, it's because LT kept Joe from getting ring #5! :lol
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Oh, I know. I grew up watching him too. If there is a singular reason why we are still having the Montana/Brady debate, it's because LT kept Joe from getting ring #5! :lol
There's some truth to that; those 49er Giant games were legendary. Both of Parcell's Giant Super Bowls went through San Francisco, the second being a 15-13 Championship game that was probably better than the Super Bowl (at least for Scott Norwood it was). Giants didn't score a touchdown in that game, and were down 13-12 without the ball when LT - go figure - recovered a fumble to set up the game winning field goal.
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I try to look at top players as those that really changed the game with their presence, both at the micro and macro level. LT absolutely did that. What do you do when your gameplan falls apart because this coked-up madman is beating you single-handed? Peyton did the same thing. No matter what defense you're planning to use he'll probably find a way to exploit it. Jerry Rice certainly did just with pure skill, but I think a lot of other receivers can claim that. How man times did Moss or Owens set out to take a game over? OBJr seems like he might get to that level. Was there a DB so scary that he shut off half the passing game before Deion Sanders? (real question, not rhetorical) These are always the sorts of guys I look at, and they're not necessarily the normal guys on the lists.
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Was there a DB so scary that he shut off half the passing game before Deion Sanders? (real question, not rhetorical) These are always the sorts of guys I look at, and they're not necessarily the normal guys on the lists.
Rod Woodson was a year or two before Deion I think. Darrel Green for the Redskins in the 80's and part of the 90's. Mel Blount, Dick "Night Train" Lane...You can find dominant players at each position in each era.
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I don't think any of those guys were the same as Sanders.
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Revis for 6 years was deadly. No one wanted to pass his way.
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I don't think any of those guys were the same as Sanders.
Woodson was a better tackler, and much better in run support. His pass coverage abilities weren't as good, but he was elite.
Blount was the DS of his day.
Yes, I'm showing my steelers bias, but there's plenty of evidence to back up my claims.
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Blount was the DS of his day.
Being named NFL MVP as a DB is pretty damned impressive. They played in different eras, though. I don't think either could do what the other did. In the end it just seems like Deion was the first to take your star receiver completely out of the game by his mere presence.
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Yeah, people seem to gloss over the fact that his 2003 yards in 14 games is a clip for 2289 in 16 games. Considering how he was doing it in the brutal cold of Buffalo for at least 3 or 4 of those games there's no reasonable argument to say he wouldn't have easily gotten to at least 2200 yards if afforded those two extra games.
Similarly, for all the dicksuckery people bestow upon Jerry Rice (deservedly so), they really fuck him over royally by just acting like Randy Moss' 23 TDs is the new record without any regard for qualifying the argument by mentioning how Rice got his 22 in 1987 in just 12 games with 0 missed games by any fault of his own (injury, suspension, etc.) due to the non-scab players playing only 12 games that year due to the canceled week and 3 replacement games. At that clip he'd have had 29 TDs in a 16 game season and at the very least easily gotten the 24 TDs necessary to still be the record holder.
You left out the other part of Rice's year Black Floyd; Rice did 22 TDs in 65 catches. :eek :eek :eek Just wanted to tack that on, as having the highest total is one thing. How Rice did it was something else.
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Blount was the DS of his day.
Being named NFL MVP as a DB is pretty damned impressive. They played in different eras, though. I don't think either could do what the other did. In the end it just seems like Deion was the first to take your star receiver completely out of the game by his mere presence.
https://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Blount-brought-about-NFL-rule-change/ec9172a9-2663-4bf3-b7b0-9d2f47560bbe
The NFL changed the rules because of him. And don't get me wrong, DS is the greatest cover corner to ever play the game. I'm of the opinion that those other players that I mentioned are very important to the history of the position as well.
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I don't think any of those guys were the same as Sanders.
Agreed, and he's no Beasley Reece.
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Consensus used to be that Jim Brown had to be included in a "greatest players" list. Not sure if that is still the current thinking.
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Glad I checked this thread because it reminded me to cancel my NFL gamepass trial before I got charged for it later tonight. I had such Super Bowl hangover depression (Falcons fan here) that I wanted to watch the All-22.
Yeah, that didn't really make me feel any better...
Particularly such things like how on the strip-sack MR was another second away from uncorking a deep bomb to a receiver running by everyone. (https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/829373599245008897)
Oh well. While I've kind of made my peace with it now, it does suck to have supplanted "Warriors 3-1" as the new all-time sports meme for choking.
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I think the '92 Houston Oilers and '04 Yankees are still 1a and 1b for biggest choke jobs ever.
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Hey now, easy on the Yankees. :-[
Vince Young back in NFL news. My poor JETS should bring him in for a tryout. :rollin It couldn't get worse. Oh wait, Kaepernick is looming. If that happens, I am renouncing my fandom of the JETS and will become a fan free agent.
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Glad I checked this thread because it reminded me to cancel my NFL gamepass trial before I got charged for it later tonight. I had such Super Bowl hangover depression (Falcons fan here) that I wanted to watch the All-22.
Yeah, that didn't really make me feel any better...
Particularly such things like how on the strip-sack MR was another second away from uncorking a deep bomb to a receiver running by everyone. (https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/829373599245008897)
Oh well. While I've kind of made my peace with it now, it does suck to have supplanted "Warriors 3-1" as the new all-time sports meme for choking.
Agreed. That Super Bowl comeback was impressive for many reasons, but as a fan of one of the Pat's biggest rivals, it was like the shot to the head to an already wounded animal. And so I've come to the realization.... my team, the Jets, will never be good. My team's rival will always be the greatest of all time. And the future looks dim for us, and great for them. And unfortunately this has been going on for 20 years now, even before Brady.
In short, there's just no reason to watch anymore. No reason to get excited. I'd switch allegiances, but psychologically, I simply can not do that in earnest. So... probably time to pick a new sport.
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Vince Young wasn't even a good NFL quarterback at his peak, so I can't imagine why he thinks he's capable of coming back so many years later.
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Vince Young wasn't even a good NFL quarterback at his peak, so I can't imagine why he thinks he's capable of coming back so many years later.
QB era is why I guess? Agreed, guy was at best mediocre. He reeks of being lazy at the position, which didn't cut it for him back then. Nor will it especially now.
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Particularly such things like how on the strip-sack MR was another second away from uncorking a deep bomb to a receiver running by everyone. (https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/829373599245008897)
Oh well. While I've kind of made my peace with it now, it does suck to have supplanted "Warriors 3-1" as the new all-time sports meme for choking.
You said it right Content_Sanity, another second. Guy's twitter post implies it was a done deal, and Ryan missed him. He was getting sacked as the WR broke free. No way ATL Falcons is a bigger "choke" than GSW last year. The years ATL Braves didn't win was a bigger deal IMO too.
Vince Young wasn't even a good NFL quarterback at his peak, so I can't imagine why he thinks he's capable of coming back so many years later.
QB era is why I guess? Agreed, guy was at best mediocre. He reeks of being lazy at the position, which didn't cut it for him back then. Nor will it especially now.
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To pile on the Jets more.
Rikers Island?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/early-lead/wp/2017/02/16/darrelle-revis-facing-charges-for-alleged-role-in-pittsburgh-street-brawl/
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In the chorus to Megadeth's Devil's Island I always catch myself fuckin up and singin it "RIKER'S ISLAND!!!"
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Particularly such things like how on the strip-sack MR was another second away from uncorking a deep bomb to a receiver running by everyone. (https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/829373599245008897)
Oh well. While I've kind of made my peace with it now, it does suck to have supplanted "Warriors 3-1" as the new all-time sports meme for choking.
You said it right Content_Sanity, another second. Guy's twitter post implies it was a done deal, and Ryan missed him. He was getting sacked as the WR broke free. No way ATL Falcons is a bigger "choke" than GSW last year. The years ATL Braves didn't win was a bigger deal IMO too.
I've never thought of Golden St last year as a major choke job, at least not on the level of the Falcons last week, the '04 Yankees or '92 Oilers. Green being a doofus and getting suspended, losing Bogut and them being a jump shooting team (meaning they will be hot and cold), was the perfect storm for the Cavs, and it still took an all-time great performance by LBJ for them to barely win the series. While the blower of a big lead has to do a lot wrong to be on the wrong end of an epic comeback, I can't look back at the Warriors and point to a lot of things they did wrong that cost them the series, other than their shot selection in the last minute of game 7. With the Falcons, the list is long of ways they bungled that game.
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Revis for 6 years was deadly. No one wanted to pass his way.
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I've never thought of Golden St last year as a major choke job, at least not on the level of the Falcons last week, the '04 Yankees or '92 Oilers. Green being a doofus and getting suspended, losing Bogut and them being a jump shooting team (meaning they will be hot and cold), was the perfect storm for the Cavs, and it still took an all-time great performance by LBJ for them to barely win the series. While the blower of a big lead has to do a lot wrong to be on the wrong end of an epic comeback, I can't look back at the Warriors and point to a lot of things they did wrong that cost them the series, other than their shot selection in the last minute of game 7. With the Falcons, the list is long of ways they bungled that game.
Yeah, I agree. And it's hard to even call the shot selection a "mistake" when that is absolutely, 100% their game plan and is what works for them the vast majority of the time.
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Not to get into an NBA quibble in the NFL thread, but I would submit that the area Golden St blew it was by not altering their game plan. In the last two minutes of that game, the Cavs were basically daring the Warriors to take it to the hoop for easy 2s, yet the Warriors kept jacking up 3s. Cleveland basically gambled that the Warriors overrealiance on the 3 would get the best of them, and they were right. The inability to change on the fly makes you Kyle Shanahan. :lol :lol
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It looks like we can have common ground of various disappointments, with each of feeling they are different degrees? We are only able to really comment on events that we witness IMO. There is a lot of context too with each of the so-called chokes; hate that phrase honestly in team sports. Especially gridiron, with the teams being so large. But with the context, the lead up and aftershocks shape a lot of it. Not to mention the culture/society present at the time.
So that is why I maybe put more stock in GSW losing- best record, alleged better team than the one with arguably one of the best players of all time. Loses in game seven, at home, to a team that just won a championship for a city that hadn't won one for 50+ years? A city that was hit hard too by the recession. Boston and ATL didn't have that level of context IMO.
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So Revis has some serious charges against him. When will these morons ever learn that nothing good happens at 2:30 am?
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In completely unrelated news, Trent Richardson just got arrested for domestic violence, prompting this awesome on-line comment:
"Richardson tried to run away but was tackled by police after a 2 yard gain"
:rollin :rollin
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So Revis has some serious charges against him. When will these morons ever learn that nothing good happens at 2:30 am?
Well, Revis deserved to be cut anyway. Unfortunately that is a fact after last season. But I have serious doubts about the incident, and I honestly can't imagine Revis started whatever went down.
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I heard Revis turned himself in to police so he must've done something.
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I heard Revis turned himself in to police so he must've done something.
Non-sequitur. Innocent folk turn themselves in all the time. If you gotta be arrested it's always best to do it on your own terms. Catch a nice buzz. Wear a nice suit for that dapper mugshot (https://www.thesmokinggun.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/750x970/documents/1020051delay1.jpg). Time it so you don't have to wait long for your arraignment. Have your lawyer there with you and cash for bail. This is how the cool kids do it.
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I heard Revis turned himself in to police so he must've done something.
Non-sequitur. Innocent folk turn themselves in all the time. If you gotta be arrested it's always best to do it on your own terms. Catch a nice buzz. Wear a nice suit for that dapper mugshot (https://www.thesmokinggun.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/750x970/documents/1020051delay1.jpg). Time it so you don't have to wait long for your arraignment. Have your lawyer there with you and cash for bail. This is how the cool kids do it.
Next thing we know, you'll be calling yourself Nomad. Sterilize...sterilize...sterilize :rollin :rollin
Anybody who turns themselves in for the reasons you just mentioned, deserves to be thrown in jail. :lol
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I heard Revis turned himself in to police so he must've done something.
Non-sequitur. Innocent folk turn themselves in all the time. If you gotta be arrested it's always best to do it on your own terms. Catch a nice buzz. Wear a nice suit for that dapper mugshot (https://www.thesmokinggun.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/750x970/documents/1020051delay1.jpg). Time it so you don't have to wait long for your arraignment. Have your lawyer there with you and cash for bail. This is how the cool kids do it.
:lol true, much better to be arrested on your schedule than theirs.
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"Derrell, meet you for coffee Monday morning?"
"Let me check my calender....aw shit..can't do it man. I'm scheduled to be arrested"
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"Derrell, meet you for coffee Monday morning?"
"Let me check my calender....aw shit..can't do it man. I'm scheduled to be arrested"
(https://i.imgur.com/nydHzB1.jpg)
:P :biggrin:
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Antonio Brown signed a hell of a deal.
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Antonio Brown signed a hell of a deal.
Not a fan of that deal.
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Antonio Brown signed a hell of a deal.
Not a fan of that deal.
What don't you like about it? I don't know much other than the numbers. I'd like to get another perspective.
I liked the fact that it was front loaded. If something happens to slow his production towards the end of it the team won't be left with a big cap hit.
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What don't you like about it? I don't know much other than the numbers. I'd like to get another perspective.
I liked the fact that it was front loaded. If something happens to slow his production towards the end of it the team won't be left with a big cap hit.
Where to begin... I think his off the field antics are just becoming too much and that admittedly clouds my judgement on the issue. But looking at it from a clearer standpoint, I think he's a great WR who is starting to decline. So the length of the agreement is a little longer for my taste. It's also rumored in Pittsburgh that Ben is only going to play for a couple more years, so once Ben is gone, AB is pointless, Ben made AB what he is today. See last season when Ben was out and Jones was QB. AB not only sucked, he chewed out Jones for not getting him the ball more, cause you know, stats.
There are more reasons but basically those are my first couple thoughts. I would have had him play out his deal next year to see if his off the field antics were any better.
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Seems like just about every time a great WR is given a big money contract, his production dips. I won't be surprised when the same happens with Brown. The Steelers had to give him that deal, but they just handicapped their ability to fix the holes on their team.
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What don't you like about it? I don't know much other than the numbers. I'd like to get another perspective.
I liked the fact that it was front loaded. If something happens to slow his production towards the end of it the team won't be left with a big cap hit.
Where to begin... I think his off the field antics are just becoming too much and that admittedly clouds my judgement on the issue. But looking at it from a clearer standpoint, I think he's a great WR who is starting to decline. So the length of the agreement is a little longer for my taste. It's also rumored in Pittsburgh that Ben is only going to play for a couple more years, so once Ben is gone, AB is pointless, Ben made AB what he is today. See last season when Ben was out and Jones was QB. AB not only sucked, he chewed out Jones for not getting him the ball more, cause you know, stats.
There are more reasons but basically those are my first couple thoughts. I would have had him play out his deal next year to see if his off the field antics were any better.
I'm hoping (quite possibly foolishly) that his antics are over with. At least the extreme ones like the face book broadcast.
Your point about Ben making AB what he is is a very good point. It was the same case with Mike Wallace before that, and I'm sure that if I think hard enough that I can come up with a couple of other examples as well.
The Steelers had to give him that deal, but they just handicapped their ability to fix the holes on their team.
Yes and no. Definitely from a money stand point. They have to sign Bell soon, also. However, under their previous GM they got a reputation for not paying players, and I have to wonder if it might have cost them the opportunity to sign some good players over the years because would stay away ect... They have to prove that they're not going to be complete tight wallets in the future.
I'm hoping that with Martavis Bryant returning, and with the development of this past season's rookies the team won't have very many holes to fill.
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Brandon Marshall to the Giants. :o
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Yeah, that's all they need is another head case WR. Good news for the division rivals. :rollin
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Not sure how Kev feels about it, but I'm hoping Romo lands in Denver. I'd like to see him get a shot outside of Dallas.
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Brandon Marshall to the Giants. :o
It's hard to complain about getting a good WR to replace Cruz, but the Giants can't pass with the current OL blocking so poorly which is where they really needed to invest.
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Looks like the 49ers are going to sign Hoyer. I approve. :tup
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Not sure how Kev feels about it, but I'm hoping Romo lands in Denver. I'd like to see him get a shot outside of Dallas.
Getting Romo will be meaningless if they don't fix the offensive line, which was their undoing in 2016. If their line is no better this year than last, Romo will be hurt before October.
But, if they do fix the line, I'd love to have him become a Bronco.
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Brandon Marshall to the Giants. :o
Goddammit.
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"DeSean Jackson intends to sign with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter."
Huge pickup for a Buccs offense that could be very good.
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49ers are likely to acquire the following free agents: QB Brian Hoyer (Bears), WR Pierre Garcon (Redskins), WR Marquise Goodwin (Bills), FB Kyle Juszczyk (Ravens).
This makes me REALLY happy as a fan. Not that any of those names are likely to light it up on the field and instantly make them contenders. But these are solid, experienced players that can hopefully provide a bit of stability, and should be able to be acquired for pretty modest prices. That, to me, is EXACTLY what they should be looking to do. The team is a mess and needs to be rebuilt from top to bottom. They aren't going to rebuild it in a season or two. This shows me that they have a long term plan and aren't just rushing to throw away money on big names that will get them back to mediocre. They are filling gaps with solid but not dazzling choices that are going to come at a reasonable price, while taking their time and saving their money while waiting for those guys that may develop into stars. There was talk about them spending big to pick up Cousins, and I felt like that would have been a HUGE mistake. First off, they would have overpayed. Second, despite his skills and experience, I'm not sure he is the type of guy that can provide stability to an organization while they rebuild. Third, in this organization, given the lack of skilled players on the O-line and at the receiver position (although better with the receivers they picked up), he would have gotten killed in the backfield and had awful numbers, which can often destroy a QB's confidence and ruin him as a player. I am really glad they didn't rush to pick him up or go after a QB high in the draft when next year's class looks to be a lot better than this year's.
Again, these are not dazzling moves. But they are smart moves that show a calculated, common-sense, long-term plan, and that is something this organization has lacked. I have hope again.
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I agree with that. 49ers fans have reason to be optimistic.
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Romo now to be traded and not releases :o :o :o
Culter to be cut. Glennon to be paid.
I'd update the subject, but ....you know.
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Talk is Pats trading Butler to N.O. for reciever Cooks. Sounds like they couldn't come to a deal and want to get something in return.
I don't like it at all.
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Romo now to be traded and not releases :o :o :o
Yeah, I was surprised when I heard that they were going to cut him. No doubt they can get something significant for him in return, so why not go the trade route.
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Talk is Pats trading Butler to N.O. for reciever Cooks. Sounds like they couldn't come to a deal and want to get something in return.
I don't like it at all.
Oh I'd love this deal for New England. Cooks would be a hell of a weapon for Brady, while Butler is replaceable, especially to someone like Coach Belichick.
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Looks like Cutler to the Jets might be a thing.
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Butter has become one hell of a shutdown corner. I get the Pats have been looking for a deep threat. That opens up even more but valence wins championships.
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Talk is Pats trading Butler to N.O. for reciever Cooks. Sounds like they couldn't come to a deal and want to get something in return.
I don't like it at all.
Oh I'd love this deal for New England. Cooks would be a hell of a weapon for Brady, while Butler is replaceable, especially to someone like Coach Belichick.
Agreed. If they get Gilmore then they can go either way and neither would bother me. The truth is that Butler is going to cost more than he's willing to pay next year, so getting a good receiver for him now makes sense.
And besides, at this point how can anybody question Bill? It's gotten to the point that the bigger the deal the more excited I am for it, even if it seems to make no sense. If he cut Brady and signed Cutler I'd just assume he knows 3 things I don't and it'll all work out for the best. :lol
edit: And valence can be either negative or beneficial to winning championships.
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Defensive tackle Calais Campbell will sign with the Jacksonville Jaguars as previously reported, despite a late push by the Denver Broncos to get him to sign with their team instead.
"Chose Jags because Tom Coughlin is a winner, they brought in two other big free agents and they also have been drafting well the last few years. They are a young and hungry defense that I want to lead," he told ESPN's Josina Anderson.
No disrespect to Mr. Coughlin... but the Broncos, and John Elway are winners as well. But if he wants to lead a "younger" defense, so be it.
Speaking of Denver, I do like the Leary signing. Just what they needed.
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Wow! Texans banish Brock to Cleveland!
https://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=1-18865511
Are they making Romo room?
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Shame. I was hoping that number 12 would be heading NE to NE. Though I suppose it's still possible. If I understand correctly, they might have just been looking to gain some draft picks, but that's contingent on finding somebody willing to pay Osweiller.
edit: And on a side-note, how demoralizing must it be when your GM gives up a second round pick just to get you off of the team?
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First Torrey Smith, and now Alshon Jeffery. Eagles are giving Wentz plenty of weapons.
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Shame. I was hoping that number 12 would be heading NE to NE. Though I suppose it's still possible. If I understand correctly, they might have just been looking to gain some draft picks, but that's contingent on finding somebody willing to pay Osweiller.
edit: And on a side-note, how demoralizing must it be when your GM gives up a second round pick just to get you off of the team?
If I remember correctly, the owner for Houston pushed for Osweiller even though the GM and Coach and didn't want him.
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Cleveland won't keep Osweiler, but I still chuckled today when I heard about them trading for him.
I read that NO said hell no to trading Cooks. He wouldn't be a good Patriot anyway. He pitched a fit last year in a game where he caught one ball and the Saints won huge. He'd cry every game where he gets two targets and the Patriots win.
Philly needed some WRs who can catch, so those are great signings.
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Damn!
Cleveland's picks over the next two drafts now look like this:
2017: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6
2018: 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7
And yet you still have to assume they'll be just as bad 4 years from now, except for having a beast of a DE whose soul has been crushed.
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Gonna be pretty hard for them to recover from that missing 2017 7th round pick though.
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Damn!
Cleveland's picks over the next two drafts now look like this:
2017: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6
2018: 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7
And yet you still have to assume they'll be just as bad 4 years from now, except for having a beast of a DE whose soul has been crushed.
:lol Yes, somehow, they will still be bad...
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New England got Cooks, and it didn't cost them Butler!
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The Pats have been ridiculously busy. For them.
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And not doing the normal Pats thing.
We will see about Butler. Weird situation.
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They paid a fortune for that dude from the Bills. Very un-Belichick.
And yes, the Butler thing is weird.
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Glad to see Julius Peppers back with the Panthers. He isn't the player he once was, but he still has enough juice to enhance our defense.
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I'm not surprised that NE gave up what they did to get Cooks. As a fantasy football player, I remember Cooks' stock going through the roof in August 2015 simply because Belichick said after a preseason game that he is happy they don't have to play Cooks twice a year; it was clear then that Belichick was very high on him as a player. Cooks is a selfish diva, but if anyone can get him to calm down and accept a role as a team guy who might not catch a lot of balls some weeks, it's Belichick.
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It always seemed to me that being a receiver on the Patriots requires a slightly different skillset. It seems to be the smart guys that run perfect routes that work out, and if Bill sees that in somebody that also has good YAC potential I'm pretty happy with it. What I'm not so crazy about is his contract. He costs next to nothing this year, but it's his last year. If he excels, and there's every reason to assume he will, this is probably a first round pick for a 1 year player. They could exercise his 5th year option, but the clock's ticking on that one.
Still, I'm liking the way this is all going so far. NE was the odds favorite to win again next year the day after the superbowl. They haven't gone backward and they might actually wind up being a better team when it's all said and one. If they keep Butler they will have replaced Logan Ryan with Gilmore and added a long ball threat.
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Glad to see Julius Peppers back with the Panthers. He isn't the player he once was
So you might say Peppers is a little um..salty?
:neverusethis:
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Talk is Pats trading Butler to N.O. for reciever Cooks. Sounds like they couldn't come to a deal and want to get something in return.
I don't like it at all.
Oh I'd love this deal for New England. Cooks would be a hell of a weapon for Brady, while Butler is replaceable, especially to someone like Coach Belichick.
Agreed. If they get Gilmore then they can go either way and neither would bother me. The truth is that Butler is going to cost more than he's willing to pay next year, so getting a good receiver for him now makes sense.
And besides, at this point how can anybody question Bill? It's gotten to the point that the bigger the deal the more excited I am for it, even if it seems to make no sense. If he cut Brady and signed Cutler I'd just assume he knows 3 things I don't and it'll all work out for the best. :lol
edit: And valence can be either negative or beneficial to winning championships.
I've long ago given up worrying about Belicheck's defense. They've survived - nay, thrived - after the loss of many great DBs including Talib, Revis... they'll survive without Butler, especially if he's playing diva. He should know better at this point. Other than Brady, and MAYBE Gronk, there are no stars on the Pats. Hell, even Gronk is more a personality off the field than a "star" on the field.
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With that offense they will always have a chance to get to the SB but the last 2 times they've own they had better than average defense. Balance wins SB's. Ask the Colts.
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And the Pats resigned Dont'a Hightower. Now we'll see about the Bulter situation.
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And the Pats resigned Dont'a Hightower. Now we'll see about the Bulter situation.
Ah, I was hoping the Steelers would get him, but I guess he was just using other teams for leverage?
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And the Pats resigned Dont'a Hightower. Now we'll see about the Bulter situation.
Ah, I was hoping the Steelers would get him, but I guess he was just using other teams for leverage?
Yup. He and the Pats had been on good terms and neither side wanted him to leave. Rather than throwing out a lowball offer the Patriots just wait and see what other teams will offer, and then offer him a bit less. Plenty of players are just fine with that (Devon McQuarty) and some won't accept one cent less than everything (Derell Revis). I think Bill has a pretty good sense about who's going to play ball and who's not and that dictates how he handles the situation. I suspect that's why he never considered resigning Bennett. What GB paid him was actually pretty reasonable and the Patriots likely would have paid something fairly close.
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Makes sense, I got excited for a minute yesterday when he visited Pittsburgh. That dude would have made a big difference on the Steelers D.
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So, Ezekiel Elliott...Man of the Year?
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Makes sense, I got excited for a minute yesterday when he visited Pittsburgh. That dude would have made a big difference on the Steelers D.
They do need to find a replacement for JH soon, but I think that Bud Dupree is on the verge of becoming a star on the other side. Getting Cam back healthy along with Tuitt and Hargrave coming along should help the linebackers look a lot better.
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Makes sense, I got excited for a minute yesterday when he visited Pittsburgh. That dude would have made a big difference on the Steelers D.
They do need to find a replacement for JH soon, but I think that Bud Dupree is on the verge of becoming a star on the other side. Getting Cam back healthy along with Tuitt and Hargrave coming along should help the linebackers look a lot better.
I think they need a good inside LB partner for Shazier, IMO Hightower could have been that. Outside LB and D-line don't concern me as much at the moment.
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So, Ezekiel Elliott...Man of the Year?
Boob of the year?
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So, Ezekiel Elliott...Man of the Year?
Boob of the year?
:lol :lol
I've noticed it is barely being talked about on the major sports networks. I wouldn't be surprised if Jerry Jones used his power to shut down talk of it, so his star RB gets a pass for what was technically, from a legal standpoint, assaulting a woman.
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:rollin JJ doesn't have the power to shut down the sports media. I'm sure there's a lot more interesting things to talk about besides Zeke not being able to keep his hands off a woman who's already trying to expose herself anyway.
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I'm surprised the Giants were able to keep JPP :metal
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JJ doesn't have the power to shut down the sports media. I'm sure there's a lot more interesting things to talk about besides Zeke not being able to keep his hands off a woman who's already trying to expose herself anyway.
JJ probably put him up to it!
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I'm surprised the Giants were able to keep JPP :metal
Agreed. John Peter Petrucci belongs in NY for life.
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Raiders are looking to sign Marshawn Lynch! haha
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The Raiders have been the NFL's senior league for the last 15 years.
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The Raiders have been the NFL's senior league for the last 15 years.
Longer than that, I think! :lol
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I mean to their own detriment. Jerry Rice and Rich Gannon were quality pickups.
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This just in...Dwight Clark has ALS and blames it on football. I don't think Lou Gehrig blamed baseball, did he? :rollin
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Um we all know 60 years later that in fact that concussions cause ALS.
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My point is, that's not the only thing causing ALS. There's no way to know for sure how someone got it.
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But there is facts that boxers, football players have a greater chance to get ALS with the amounts of hits to their heads.
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A former PSU linebacker who I played golf with in college and got drafted and played a few seasons in the NFL has ALS. No idea if that is related to his football playing, but it's sad and he is my age.
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What about someone who was dropped on their head as a kid? If so, I'm screwed. :lol
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:lol
You may be but think about how many times you have to be dropped on your head in an NFL career. Also jarring his can cause that too and how many in a career?
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(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/FB_IMG_1490044065305_zpsrsioxssk.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/FB_IMG_1490044065305_zpsrsioxssk.jpg.html)
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So it looks like Trump's wall will get built now. :lol
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/20/tom-brady-jersey-culprit-may-have-von-miller-super-bowl-50-gear-too/
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Brady? Mexico?
Can't wait to see Trump's tweet on this! :lol
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Guess who is playing in Mexico City this year? :lol
Revenge tour III :lol
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What did Kermit say at Jim Henson's funeral?
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It's not easy being green?
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Good riddance. That sick fuck has stuck his hand up my ass for the last time.
Not sure how it relates to Brady and Mexico, though, and would really prefer not to.
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The Patriots have had a hell of an off-season so far. Watch out for Rex Burkhead next year.
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Every State, every state. It's hard to believe.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/03/21/patriots-tom-brady-had-nfls-top-selling-jersey-in-february-in-all-50-states/
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Every State, every state. It's hard to believe.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/03/21/patriots-tom-brady-had-nfls-top-selling-jersey-in-february-in-all-50-states/
Well yeah....who buys jerseys in February?
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Every State, every state. It's hard to believe.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/03/21/patriots-tom-brady-had-nfls-top-selling-jersey-in-february-in-all-50-states/
Especially considering New York, New Jersey, and Florida are mostly inhabited by fans who hate the Patriots.
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Only people buying in February are fans of the winning team, and he's their most famous player. It makes perfect sense.
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Only people buying in February are fans of the winning team, and he's their most famous player. It makes perfect sense.
This. I wouldn't be surprised if it's something that has happened in the past as well.
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Like others said, certain states like N.Y. make no sense.
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Never has. ;D
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Like others said, certain states like N.Y. make no sense.
Maybe.
I'm looking at it like this: There are always fans of teams in different areas. I live in North Central Ohio about 70 miles south of Cleveland. I'm deep in Browns territory, but I'm a hard-core Steelers fan. I'm sure that there are plenty of fans in New York of other teams. None of the New York teams are doing very well lately, so none of those teams fans are purchasing merchandise in the off season. Patriots fans in New York are celebrating their championship. Those fans are a huge minority in the area that they live, but they're the only fans actively buying anything at this point of the year.
The number of sales probably isn't that big, but they don't need to be in those areas.
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You are all missing the point. 2 years ago Deflategate caused a wave of hate towards Brady. Plus winning 2 more SB's one would think the hate would go. It Eels to have gone the opposite.
It just feels weird to us Pats fans to see this. That's all.
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Seems black market sales in Mexico are up too.
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:lol
Your wrong, he couldn't sell it. :lol
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You are all missing the point. 2 years ago Deflategate caused a wave of hate towards Brady. Plus winning 2 more SB's one would think the hate would go. It Eels to have gone the opposite.
It just feels weird to us Pats fans to see this. That's all.
I'll say once again, I'm a Steelers fan that lives in Ohio. Hatred for a team or player isn't anything new to me. Considering the fact that I'm also a Chicago Cubs fan, I even got an extra dose of hatred from local fans in the fall.
The suggestion that the Steelers are cheaters and thugs is something that I've always dealt with. However, if we were to pull out another Superb Owl in the next couple of years, I wouldn't be surprised too see Bell, Brown or Ben jerseys every time I turn around. And trust me when I say that the Steelers are hated much more than any other team in my area. I don't know how deep the hatred goes for the Pats in New York, but I can imagine that it would be similar.
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However, if we were to pull out another Superb Owl
(https://www.outdoorphoto.community/gallery/data/523/Cape_Eagle-Owl_-_7457_-_2012_DS.jpg)
;D
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However, if we were to pull out another Superb Owl
(https://www.outdoorphoto.community/gallery/data/523/Cape_Eagle-Owl_-_7457_-_2012_DS.jpg)
;D
:lol
I got into the habit of calling it that sometimes after seeing someone do it on a news site that I frequent. I think it started out by making fun of the NFL for acting like patent trolls.
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Oh, OK. I thought you were speaking Kingshmeglish.
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Oh, OK. I thought you were speaking Kingshmeglish.
I struggle enough with the regular kind. That's his domain, not mine. ;D
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Oh, OK. I thought you were speaking Kingshmeglish.
Flog off Timy. :lol
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You are all missing the point. 2 years ago Deflategate caused a wave of hate towards Brady. Plus winning 2 more SB's one would think the hate would go. It Eels to have gone the opposite.
It just feels weird to us Pats fans to see this. That's all.
The point I was making, and NY is a perfect example.... who's buying Giants, Jets and Bills jerseys in February?
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That is very true.
I still can't picture N.Y JETS or Giants fans buy anything Patriots.
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That is very true.
I still can't picture N.Y JETS or Giants fans buy anything Patriots.
Me neither. I don't think that's the case at all. I think Giant and Jets (and Bills) fans are buying nothing and the marginal New England fanbase that resides in NY, people who want a relevant jersey for their Super Bowl party, Anti-Falcon fans that may want to wear a Pats jersey, and maybe just football fans who wanted the Pats to "Stick it to Goodell" may have bought them.
I mean yeah, some folks may want and get a Beckham Jr or McCoy jersey on their February B-day or something similar, but by and large, if a team is out of it, jersey sales don't pick up until new free agents are signed, a "stud" rookie is drafted, and the regular season approaches.
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I do think there is a perception change on Brady the way Goodell and the office handled Deflategate and how since then they've handled all the Giants issues as an example.
Plus how Brady has played in the 4th quarter of SB wins.
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When we saw Iron Maiden in Phoenix in 1998, apparently I wore a Pats t shirt. Duding intermission (between Dio and Maiden) this dude comes up to me all psycho looking and he starts to roll up his sleeve to show me his tattoo (meanwhile my wife is like WTF??) and shows me his tattoo of a Pats helmet. We talk a bit, and turns out he is also from MA and he hands me his card. He was the President of the Arizona Chapter of the New England Patriots Fan Club.
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What did Kermit say at Jim Henson's funeral?
Nothing.
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Every State, every state. It's hard to believe.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/03/21/patriots-tom-brady-had-nfls-top-selling-jersey-in-february-in-all-50-states/
Well yeah....who buys jerseys in February?
Fans who want the special Super Bowl commemorative jersey, I would guess.
I almost bought a '9ers SB jersey a few years back. It just wasn't in the budget at the time.
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Every State, every state. It's hard to believe.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/03/21/patriots-tom-brady-had-nfls-top-selling-jersey-in-february-in-all-50-states/
Well yeah....who buys jerseys in February?
Fans who want the special Super Bowl commemorative jersey, I would guess.
I almost bought a '9ers SB jersey a few years back. It just wasn't in the budget at the time.
Bingo, though some of those sales may also be from late January as well. I know I ordered a Torrey Smith SB47 commemorative jersey as soon as I could. Then maybe a year later, I found a Pitta one on sale at the mall.
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Well, if you agree with that, then why were you essentially implying that it is only the bandwagon fans that would buy at that time? :lol I mean, I don't disagree that there are likely a lot who aren't necessarily fans of a team, and just jump on the bandwagon for whoever the champs are. But you also have a lot of legit long-time fans who want the special jersey that literally did not exist before February.
Also: Just thought of another likely segment of the Feb. jersey sales market, although not sure how big. Parents of kids who weren't fans, but actually sat down to watch the game at the obligatory SB party and became fans, and then asked mom and dad for a jersey.
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How about signing up for SI in time for the Swimsuit edition and getting a Pats Championship pack. ;D
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Well, if you agree with that, then why were you essentially implying that it is only the bandwagon fans that would buy at that time? :lol I mean, I don't disagree that there are likely a lot who aren't necessarily fans of a team, and just jump on the bandwagon for whoever the champs are. But you also have a lot of legit long-time fans who want the special jersey that literally did not exist before February.
Also: Just thought of another likely segment of the Feb. jersey sales market, although not sure how big. Parents of kids who weren't fans, but actually sat down to watch the game at the obligatory SB party and became fans, and then asked mom and dad for a jersey.
I didn't intend on implying that it was just bandwagon fans. Using New York as our example, the NY based Pat fans, frontrunners, people just wanting a jersey for a party etc would surely outnumber those buying for Giants, Jets and Bills for that month. Now if the Giants were in the SB... different story.
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I'm just shocked that this would happen in certain states. Both Pennsylvania teams for example. Both rabid fan bases.
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I'm just shocked that this would happen in certain states. Both Pennsylvania teams for example. Both rabid fan bases.
Yeah, but I think I get the point DoC was making now. Who buys jerseys in February? Probably not a ton sold that time of year for 30 teams that are NOT in the SB. I doubt Eagles and Steelers fans were buying around that time. So when you combine the fact that those two fan bases were NOT buying their teams jerseys, and the fact that you DO have fans (even if in very modest numbers in those markets) buying Pats jerseys, it's not hard to see why the MVP won the sales battle.
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Also add in that the time of year is typically when jerseys go on sale because the teams start changing and the jersey become irrelevant. Something like a Brady jersey where you know he will be a Pat next year and you know he is one of the all time greats and off one of the all time greatest performances, you just know that Jersey is going to dominate the market regardless of location.
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I'm just shocked that this would happen in certain states. Both Pennsylvania teams for example. Both rabid fan bases.
Yeah, but I think I get the point DoC was making now. Who buys jerseys in February? Probably not a ton sold that time of year for 30 teams that are NOT in the SB. I doubt Eagles and Steelers fans were buying around that time. So when you combine the fact that those two fan bases were NOT buying their teams jerseys, and the fact that you DO have fans (even if in very modest numbers in those markets) buying Pats jerseys, it's not hard to see why the MVP won the sales battle.
My point was there was so much hate for the Pats (Gates and winning) that there seems to be less hate of late.
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Not from this guy. :biggrin:
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I'm just shocked that this would happen in certain states. Both Pennsylvania teams for example. Both rabid fan bases.
Yeah, but I think I get the point DoC was making now. Who buys jerseys in February? Probably not a ton sold that time of year for 30 teams that are NOT in the SB. I doubt Eagles and Steelers fans were buying around that time. So when you combine the fact that those two fan bases were NOT buying their teams jerseys, and the fact that you DO have fans (even if in very modest numbers in those markets) buying Pats jerseys, it's not hard to see why the MVP won the sales battle.
My point was there was so much hate for the Pats (Gates and winning) that there seems to be less hate of late.
I think that superbowl performance shut up a lot of the haters.
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I'm just shocked that this would happen in certain states. Both Pennsylvania teams for example. Both rabid fan bases.
Yeah, but I think I get the point DoC was making now. Who buys jerseys in February? Probably not a ton sold that time of year for 30 teams that are NOT in the SB. I doubt Eagles and Steelers fans were buying around that time. So when you combine the fact that those two fan bases were NOT buying their teams jerseys, and the fact that you DO have fans (even if in very modest numbers in those markets) buying Pats jerseys, it's not hard to see why the MVP won the sales battle.
My point was there was so much hate for the Pats (Gates and winning) that there seems to be less hate of late.
I think that superbowl performance shut up a lot of the haters.
That, and the fact that a lot of us haters have just been so beaten down by the sheer amount of time the Pats have been on top and the sheer number if wins that we have resigned ourselves to the fact that it takes less energy to like them at this point than it does to hate on them. :lol
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I'll wear that like a badge of honor. :lol
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Part of my own past Pats hate was just that I was a really big Manning fan. Now that he is done, there really isn't a reason to hate. And I can truly appreciate just how much of an accomplishment it is to have had such prolonged success, so I have been converted to a reluctant fan. I rooted for them against Seattle, although it was admittedly more a function of rooting against Seattle. This last one, despite having a soft spot for Atlanta, I was rooting for the Pats.
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I'll wear that like a badge of honor. :lol
Yup, our work and is done here.
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For me it's not that I stopped hating the Patriots. I will always despise everything about that team. It's just that I'm exhausted. I've seen the Jets lose and the Patriots win so many times that if I put anymore of my energy into caring, I will go insane.
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I remember a time when the Pats were one of the worst teams in the league year after year. The 85 season was sort of a fluke. They played solid defense, but their offense was nothing special. They got a lot better when Drew Bledsoe came along, but they couldn't get past an awesome Green Bay team in the 90's. So I don't begrudge their fan-base being able to enjoy a long run of success. Brady is one of the best of all time. I don't like the coach on the level of his personality(this extends back to his time in Cleveland, not really because of the "gates"), but once again, he's one of the best of all time.
Hats off to the Pats!
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I was there in the early 90's when there was 20,000 in the stadium. The late 80's team was a good team.
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Las Vegas Raiders is now a real thing by way of 31-1 owners vote:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/03/27/oakland-raiders-las-vegas-move-approved-owners-vote?xid=socialflow_facebook_si
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(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/FB_IMG_1491065940888_zpske60o4s8.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/FB_IMG_1491065940888_zpske60o4s8.jpg.html)
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:lol
Sorry Atlanta.
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Apparently the Patriots are meeting with Adrian Peterson today.
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Kicking tires I'm guessing. I don't want him.
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Kicking tires I'm guessing. I don't want him.
They've got so much depth there that I don't really see a role for him. Ideally he could just come in late in the game and beat the shit out of a tired line, but his fumbling makes that a risky proposition.
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Makes no sense.
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Kicking tires I'm guessing. I don't want him.
They've got so much depth there that I don't really see a role for him. Ideally he could just come in late in the game and beat the shit out of a tired line, but his fumbling makes that a risky proposition.
The fumbling is a huge issue. Sure is.
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Only Patriots fans. One of the best RBs of all time has a meeting. "We don't need him, he's not good enough." :lol
Obviously the coaching staff/management don't see the fumbling as a big issue, or they wouldn't even be meeting with him.
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:lol
The team is really a pass first team as you know Hef. I think AP is still looking for touches. Could he be O.K. with less touches to have a chance to win a ring? All interesting questions.
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Only Patriots fans. One of the best RBs of all time has a meeting. "We don't need him, he's not good enough." :lol
Obviously the coaching staff/management don't see the fumbling as a big issue, or they wouldn't even be meeting with him.
In fairness, they don't "need" him. They've won plenty without him. But I don't blame New England for bringing him in for a look.
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"Hey, LaGarrette, looks who's here."
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"Hey, LaGarrette, looks who's here."
Take what we are offering LaGarrette.
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His calculated market value is quite a bit over what Bill would offer him, and in NFL terms he hasn't made all that much money over his career. I couldn't fault the guy for going to NYG to pad the checking account. This isn't like Darrelle Revis's sorry ass leaving for a few extra bucks.
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"Hey, LaGarrette, looks who's here."
There's probably more truth in that than anything else.
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I can't buy that.
Personally, I think Bill likes the player and if he can get him real cheap, he'll grab him.
All this stuff about the Krafts not accepting it is bull. With Myra alive, I'd believe it, but Robert Kraft is not above anything.
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His calculated market value is quite a bit over what Bill would offer him, and in NFL terms he hasn't made all that much money over his career. I couldn't fault the guy for going to NYG to pad the checking account. This isn't like Darrelle Revis's sorry ass leaving for a few extra bucks.
He'd also be the featured back if he went to the NYG, so it wouldn't just be about more money. But the Giants have no offensive line and are less likely to win than the Patriots. I honestly would really love him on the NYG. This team is building for a run now and we lack a RB and offensive line to really be a contender.
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I haven't been following the Aaron Hernandez case, but I just read https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/aaron-hernandez-trial-first-defense-witness-rips-apart-prosecutions-entire-motive-195941790.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/aaron-hernandez-trial-first-defense-witness-rips-apart-prosecutions-entire-motive-195941790.html) and thought, wow, I wonder if he were to get off, could he come back to the NFL? Would his reputation be too damaged for a team to sign him?
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No one would sign him. No one.
Anywho he has one life sentence all ready. This time in court is a different suit. He's never getting out.
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(https://cloudfront.sportsgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/brady-gronk-red-sox.jpg)
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I don't know how much AP has left, but I am not sure he is a good fit for the Patriots, unless he is willing to accept a reduced role.
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He's begging for a job at this point.
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Backs who can't do anything in the passing game just aren't that valuable in today's NFL. They have their place, but no one's going to overpay. Especially at his age, and with clear signs of deterioration. I feel bad for Jamaal Charles. He was arguably playing at a higher level than Peterson, but obviously has had terrible luck with injuries. There's been minimal interest in him as well.
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Charles, at his peak, was the best overall NFL RB I have seen since Tomlinson. What a shame that injuries have all but done him in.
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He's averaged 5.5 yards per carry over his career, which is insane.
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Looks like Romo's headed for the broadcasting booth. We shall see...
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19073822/dallas-cowboys-qb-tony-romo-leaving-football-broadcast-career
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No one would sign him. No one.
Anywho he has one life sentence all ready. This time in court is a different suit. He's never getting out.
Oh, didnt realize he was convicted of something already, I thought he might of had a way to get out.
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No one would sign him. No one.
Anywho he has one life sentence all ready. This time in court is a different suit. He's never getting out.
Oh, didnt realize he was convicted of something already, I thought he might of had a way to get out.
If he was guilty in this case he would serve 2 life sentences. Crazy. I've had 2 speeding tickets and one parking ticket in my life.
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No one would sign him. No one.
Anywho he has one life sentence all ready. This time in court is a different suit. He's never getting out.
Oh, didnt realize he was convicted of something already, I thought he might of had a way to get out.
If he was guilty in this case he would serve 2 life sentences. Crazy. I've had 2 speeding tickets and one parking ticket in my life.
Hence the Patriots still not signing you.
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SAY WHAAAATTTT?! :lol
I think my skill set has something to do with that. Oh and age. :lol
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At this point in his career I doubt AP is the guy, but personally I'd love to see NE get a good back. They always have a stable of reliable runners, but somebody that's a threat would take a fair amount of heat off of their aging quarterback. Moreover, Bill's not adverse to that option, as demonstrated with Corry Dillon way back when. He carried the ball 20/gm.
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But Dillon was younger and had more left than AP.
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My point was only that Bill's not adverse to utilizing a strong run game if the option is available. It will always be a pass first O, but it doesn't need to be a pass only O, which is mostly the case now.
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Oh there's no doubt Bill is willing to do so. The uproar up here is 2 weeks ago the ownership said they took Joe Dixon off the board for the draft because he hit a female. So the media heads are now wondering if the ownership and BB are on the same page.
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Oh there's no doubt Bill is willing to do so. The uproar up here is 2 weeks ago the ownership said they took Joe Dixon off the board for the draft because he hit a female. So the media heads are now wondering if the ownership and BB are on the same page.
Assuming you mean Joe Mixon, the running back, why would anybody think he was ever on the draft board? In any case, BB and Kraft are polar opposites of Jerry and Jimmy. They both know damn well how important the other is.
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I know that but you know the Boston media going hogwild.
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The Boston media are a bunch of lunatics. Bill is not averse to any player, regardless of history, but unlike the Cowboys and Bengals, the margin for error is pretty thin. They don't care who you are, but you CANNOT disrupt the clubhouse. Period.
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You should hear it up here. It's funny. The media needs something to talk about to stir up talk. It's as bad as the national media with politics.
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I don't think Belichick is stock piling all of that receiving talent to all of a sudden wanna change his offense to one that features a RB who needs 20+ carries a game. They are fine with their two pass catching RBs and a marginal runner (like Blount).
Not surprised about Romo. No point in playing only to get hurt again. Take the money and the great CBS gig.
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You should hear it up here. It's funny. The media needs something to talk about to stir up talk. It's as bad as the national media with politics.
Lol I think Gronk has given the media enough to talk about the last 4 days.
As far as AP, he is not a Bill fit. I get trying to get a SOLID run game going to save the ageing Brady. They are a dink and dunk passing team. Brady does have the arm to throw a bomb. INHO, make your offensive line solid rather than hire an old running back.
Then again, I think Bill knows what he is doing
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Dink and dunk? Lol. You did see Brady was at the top 3 for passes 20 yards and more last season. Besides. I love that most only can put down Brady saying he's a Dink and dunk passers-by.
If so, more QB'S should try.
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Hey hey, take it eason there fella.
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Hey hey, take it eason there fella.
Eason? That whimp. Also...
(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/garnet_zpsozkxqw7y.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/garnet_zpsozkxqw7y.jpg.html)
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What about my birth stone?
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What about my birth stone?
I don't even know mine! :lol
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My mom's a jewelry freak.
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I never was but sports and music is where I blew my money.
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I spent all mine on razors, combs, and shirts. (https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17504504_1038812202886840_8945031480150052160_o.jpg?oh=9aac8b7c5e95c573c27e5d840443e192&oe=594CEBB7)
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My beloved Bengals have worked out Mixon twice, which is a terrible mistake. However team owner Mike Brown is seriously big on giving guys second chances because he literally believes these guys who are great athletes deserve a chance at fortune so that they can do great things with their lives and their families. He's said so over and over again.
As for NE, mark my words, if he stays healthy you fans are going to love former Bengal, Rex Burkhead. Amazing work ethic. Shifty. Makes great reads, and always runs North/South. He fights for extra yards. He's quick as Hell with his feet. Also a great character guy, and does everything the coaches ask him to do.
It seems everyone in the AFC North thinks you have to have elite speed or can pound the pill like the Incredible Hulk to have any success running in this division. This is a run heavy division, Rex just needed a chance. He's going to do great in New England's Offense.
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However team owner Mike Brown is seriously big on giving guys second chances because he literally believes these guys who are great athletes deserve a chance at fortune so that they can do great things with their lives and their families.
This brings to mind the young man that they've continued to sign to their practice squad season after season so that his daughter who is fighting cancer can have medical insurance.
That's an awesome gesture from the Bengals, and despite being a fan of another team in that division, I've always had a ton of respect for the organization for doing that.
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My beloved Bengals have worked out Mixon twice, which is a terrible mistake. However team owner Mike Brown is seriously big on giving guys second chances because he literally believes these guys who are great athletes deserve a chance at fortune so that they can do great things with their lives and their families. He's said so over and over again.
Yeah, except that time after time after time after time the Bengals have been the paradigm example of the adage "Money doesn't build character, it reveals character."
As for NE, mark my words, if he stays healthy you fans are going to love former Bengal, Rex Burkhead. Amazing work ethic. Shifty. Makes great reads, and always runs North/South. He fights for extra yards. He's quick as Hell with his feet. Also a great character guy, and does everything the coaches ask him to do.
I don't mean to rag on your team, but I'm not a fan of thugs, and it astounds me that they keep putting Burfict on the field week after week, and they let the "character guy" go to New England. There's a really clear message in that, if anyone is interested in seeing it.
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My beloved Bengals have worked out Mixon twice, which is a terrible mistake. However team owner Mike Brown is seriously big on giving guys second chances because he literally believes these guys who are great athletes deserve a chance at fortune so that they can do great things with their lives and their families. He's said so over and over again.
As for NE, mark my words, if he stays healthy you fans are going to love former Bengal, Rex Burkhead. Amazing work ethic. Shifty. Makes great reads, and always runs North/South. He fights for extra yards. He's quick as Hell with his feet. Also a great character guy, and does everything the coaches ask him to do.
It seems everyone in the AFC North thinks you have to have elite speed or can pound the pill like the Incredible Hulk to have any success running in this division. This is a run heavy division, Rex just needed a chance. He's going to do great in New England's Offense.
As a lifelong Husker fan, I've been waiting years for Burkhead to be given a legit chance in the Pros. He is a football player in every sense of the word. I think he is the perfect fit for the Patriots.
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My beloved Bengals have worked out Mixon twice, which is a terrible mistake. However team owner Mike Brown is seriously big on giving guys second chances because he literally believes these guys who are great athletes deserve a chance at fortune so that they can do great things with their lives and their families. He's said so over and over again.
Yeah, except that time after time after time after time the Bengals have been the paradigm example of the adage "Money doesn't build character, it reveals character."
As for NE, mark my words, if he stays healthy you fans are going to love former Bengal, Rex Burkhead. Amazing work ethic. Shifty. Makes great reads, and always runs North/South. He fights for extra yards. He's quick as Hell with his feet. Also a great character guy, and does everything the coaches ask him to do.
I don't mean to rag on your team, but I'm not a fan of thugs, and it astounds me that they keep putting Burfict on the field week after week, and they let the "character guy" go to New England. There's a really clear message in that, if anyone is interested in seeing it.
I think they rely on the strong character and leadership abilities of Pacman Jones to keep Burfict in line.
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I think they rely on the strong character and leadership abilities of Pacman Jones to keep Burfict in line.
:lol
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As for NE, mark my words, if he stays healthy you fans are going to love former Bengal, Rex Burkhead. Amazing work ethic. Shifty. Makes great reads, and always runs North/South. He fights for extra yards. He's quick as Hell with his feet. Also a great character guy, and does everything the coaches ask him to do.
I don't mean to rag on your team, but I'm not a fan of thugs, and it astounds me that they keep putting Burfict on the field week after week, and they let the "character guy" go to New England. There's a really clear message in that, if anyone is interested in seeing it.
It's too obvious not to see it. This is what the Bengals are.
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All teams have thugs. You need a coach thugs fear. That's Bill Belichick.
No one fears Marvin Lewis.
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R.I.P. Dan Rooney
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60 Minutes will never be the same :'(
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(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder416/500x/66540416.jpg)
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Why is a jar of pickles so hard to open? I hate that. When I was a kid, a jar of pickles was easy to open.
Moving on.... so Marshawn Lynch to the Oakland... er... Las Vegas... er... not till 2019... Raiders now?
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Cool to see him staying in the AFC West. The Seahawks are still in the AFC West, right?
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Affirmative. Rick Mirer is under center. Mel Kiper Jr. has him as the next Joe Montana.
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Ok, I am NOT a Pats fan, yet SB LI was such a great game, I am wondering if the full game is available anywhere?
I know the Super Bowl LI Champions bluray doesn't contain the full game, what about the 3 Games to Glory V bluray? Thanks.
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R.I.P. Dan Rooney
Agreed. Easily the most influential owner of the past 50 years. Love or hate the Steelers, there is no arguing the impact he (and the family) had on building one of the best franchises in the league - if not, THE best. Here's what Kraft had to say about the man:
"My goal was to build a team that could sustain a winning tradition just like the Rooney family had with the Pittsburgh Steelers. I felt the success we have had as an organization is directly tied to the lessons I learned from Dan. He represented the heart and soul of the National Football League. In my experiences with him at the NFL meetings, I always admired the way he conducted himself, with great humility, dignity and kindness. He was a leader who was respected by everyone associated with this wonderful game."
One of my old bosses was friends with the Rooney family, and could not say enough wonderful things about them. The league lost a great man today.
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R.I.P. Dan Rooney
Agreed. Easily the most influential owner of the past 50 years. Love or hate the Steelers, there is no arguing the impact he (and the family) had on building one of the best franchises in the league - if not, THE best. Here's what Kraft had to say about the man:
"My goal was to build a team that could sustain a winning tradition just like the Rooney family had with the Pittsburgh Steelers. I felt the success we have had as an organization is directly tied to the lessons I learned from Dan. He represented the heart and soul of the National Football League. In my experiences with him at the NFL meetings, I always admired the way he conducted himself, with great humility, dignity and kindness. He was a leader who was respected by everyone associated with this wonderful game."
One of my old bosses was friends with the Rooney family, and could not say enough wonderful things about them. The league lost a great man today.
No question. As someone who was born and raised in Pittsburgh, the impact Dan made on the city can't be put into words. Essentially, he gave the city a new identity when he took over the team. Easily one of the most influential people in Pittsburgh history, and in NFL history.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9pnvurXkAAyFSF.jpg)
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That guy is the bomb. I tweeted him and he responded to me. All Pats fans feel like him to ESPN.
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Which is nuts, since ESPN loves them some Boston sports (I lost track at how many ex-Boston sports stars and Boston sports reporters they have hired over the years).
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It's how thy handled Deflategate but of late how ESPN has been riding Boston is a racist town from multiple ESPN talking heads and ESPN backing them Kev.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIZ5AiMolR8
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:lol
Seriously, radio host here trying to get those ESPN host on their shows to debate what they said, they decline and block them on Twitter.
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Goodbye Aaron Hernandez. From all pro to fertilizer for the earth.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/04/19/aaron-hernandez-suicide-prison-hanging-souza-baranowski-correctional-center-shirley-new-england-patriots/
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Such a sad story. Even sadder though was this
https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-heap-tragedy-0416-20170415-story.html
Authorities said Heap accidentally ran over and killed his 3-year old daughter as he was moving his truck in the driveway of his suburban Phoenix home. The girl was taken to a local hospital where she was pronounced dead, authorities said.
Unlike Hernandez, Heap was a class act all the way. I can't imagine the pain and anguish. :'(
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That story about Heap is just too sad for words. I cannot even imagine.
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It tears me up even thinking about Heap's situation.
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Yeah... Heap's tragedy happened last week, and I couldn't bring myself to post about it. Just an absolutely sad story.
Good riddance to Hernandez.... appreciate him saving the taxpayers further costs in keeping him alive.
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Yeah... Heap's tragedy happened last week, and I couldn't bring myself to post about it. Just an absolutely sad story.
Good riddance to Hernandez.... appreciate him saving the taxpayers further costs in keeping him alive.
I was just thinking that as well.
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Yeah... Heap's tragedy happened last week, and I couldn't bring myself to post about it. Just an absolutely sad story.
Good riddance to Hernandez.... appreciate him saving the taxpayers further costs in keeping him alive.
100% agree with everything in this post.
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Yeah... Heap's tragedy happened last week, and I couldn't bring myself to post about it. Just an absolutely sad story.
Good riddance to Hernandez.... appreciate him saving the taxpayers further costs in keeping him alive.
100% agree with everything in this post.
I kinda hate to say it, but I do as well.
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I think there is more to the Hernandez story than meets the eye. A good friend of mine (and HUGE sports fan, though not a Pats fan at all) articulated a pretty good scenario that all of this is pretty heavily gang related. He was just acquitted of a double murder, and he commits suicide?
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Just a sick tragedy, all the way around.
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Just a sick tragedy, all the way around.
What happened to Todd Heap's daughter is a tragedy. I wouldn't consider Aaron Hernandez killing himself to be a tragedy. Guy was a dirt bag.
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What happened to Todd Heap's daughter is a tragedy. I wouldn't consider Aaron Hernandez killing himself to be a tragedy. Guy was a dirt bag.
Agreed. I feel no pity whatsoever for Aaron Hernandez. The guy was a murderer, thug, and disgusting human being. So the fact he hung himself in his prison cell (where he was serving life), normally wouldn't move me. However, what did bother me was how incredibly selfish his suicide was, considering he had a four-year-old little girl, who now, is fatherless. As awful a human being Hernandez was, he made it even worse by taking the easy way out, and leaving a little girl without a father, who now she can never see again. Rot in hell, Aaron Hernandez. Here's hoping your little girl is able to overcome all this and make a good life for herself.
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What happened to Todd Heap's daughter is a tragedy. I wouldn't consider Aaron Hernandez killing himself to be a tragedy. Guy was a dirt bag.
Agreed. I feel no pity whatsoever for Aaron Hernandez. The guy was a murderer, thug, and disgusting human being. So the fact he hung himself in his prison cell (where he was serving life), normally wouldn't move me. However, what did bother me was how incredibly selfish his suicide was, considering he had a four-year-old little girl, who now, is fatherless. As awful a human being Hernandez was, he made it even worse by taking the easy way out, and leaving a little girl without a father, who now she can never see again. Rot in hell, Aaron Hernandez. Here's hoping your little girl is able to overcome all this and make a good life for herself.
Well maybe it's better the girl grows up without visiting the prison to see her murderous father? I'm not sure, but him offing himself is hardly emotional for me.
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What happened to Todd Heap's daughter is a tragedy. I wouldn't consider Aaron Hernandez killing himself to be a tragedy. Guy was a dirt bag.
Agreed. I feel no pity whatsoever for Aaron Hernandez. The guy was a murderer, thug, and disgusting human being. So the fact he hung himself in his prison cell (where he was serving life), normally wouldn't move me. However, what did bother me was how incredibly selfish his suicide was, considering he had a four-year-old little girl, who now, is fatherless. As awful a human being Hernandez was, he made it even worse by taking the easy way out, and leaving a little girl without a father, who now she can never see again. Rot in hell, Aaron Hernandez. Here's hoping your little girl is able to overcome all this and make a good life for herself.
Well maybe it's better the girl grows up without visiting the prison to see her murderous father? I'm not sure, but him offing himself is hardly emotional for me.
Yeah, not to mention social security checks each month. I'm thinking this is probably for the best for her. In any case, I approve of him offing himself. Not because of my opinion of him, but because he took his own way out. The automatic deriding of suicide as cowardly never made much sense to me, honestly.
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Goodbye Aaron Hernandez. From all pro to fertilizer for the earth.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/04/19/aaron-hernandez-suicide-prison-hanging-souza-baranowski-correctional-center-shirley-new-england-patriots/
Good fucking riddance.
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Not to derail this thread, but I'm with el Barto. I know two people personally who committed suicide, and one was, if not a close friend, then certainly a good friend. He was a cop in a big City (Philly), and he put his life on the line too many times to count. He was many things - troubled is certainly one - but "coward" is not. Neither one would have been in your top 15 list of "People you think would commit suicide". This was his decision, and while it has benefits for us as a society, I think that's as far as we can go with that.
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Goodbye Aaron Hernandez. From all pro to fertilizer for the earth.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/04/19/aaron-hernandez-suicide-prison-hanging-souza-baranowski-correctional-center-shirley-new-england-patriots/
Good fucking riddance.
Hang 'em high. :tup
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Fun "what if" article regarding draft decisions for all 32 franchises.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/32for32x170419/nfl-alternate-realities-biggest-draft-all-32-teams
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Anyone see Gronk cut in on Sean Spicer's press conference today? It was hilarious.
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Anyone see Gronk cut in on Sean Spicer's press conference today? It was hilarious.
Yeah, I seen a video clip of that. Gronk doesn't GAF :lol
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One of my favorite nights of the year... the unveiling of the new season schedule.
Two rumors thus far....
Giants and Redskins on Thanksgiving: The Washington Post reports the Redskins will host the Giants in primetime on Thanksgiving night.
Chiefs at Patriots to open season?: According to ESPN, the NFL will open its 2017 season with the Kansas City Chiefs hosting the New England Patriots.
https://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/04/nfl_schedule_leaks_and_rumors.html
Looking to see if the Ravens get to host a MNF game this year. They haven't done this since week 1 of 2012.
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What I can't wait to see is if Romo actually replaces Simms on CBS. For some reason I just can't fathom that.
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What I can't wait to see is if Romo actually replaces Simms on CBS. For some reason I just can't fathom that.
I can. And the people will rejoice.
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:rollin
Whatever you say DoC.
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Reading that the Broncos will host the LA Chargers on MNF in Week 1. Second year in a row that a relocated team opens up on the road.
oh... and Cowboys/Giants open up on SNF.....again.
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What I can't wait to see is if Romo actually replaces Simms on CBS. For some reason I just can't fathom that.
I can. And the people will rejoice.
I'll second this. I don't know anyone that's a Phil Simms fan when it comes to his broadcasting.
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I don't know anyone that's a Phil Simms fan when it comes to his broadcasting.
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Reading that the Broncos will host the LA Chargers on MNF in Week 1. Second year in a row that a relocated team opens up on the road.
oh... and Cowboys/Giants open up on SNF.....again.
The reason for the DAL\NYG opener,. . . again, is because they're consistently very good games. Since the NFL got all gung-ho with them as a week one game in 2012 they've all been been decided by less than a TD, and two were 1pt games. But yeah, the NFL isn't good at scheduling teams with new homes. Same applies to new stadiums, as well.
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As a Giants fan I love how they open the season with Dallas in primetime, but I guess I can see where other fans would be interested in seeing their team in that spot. But it may be hard to change the NFL's mind considering those are two of the most popular teams and as Barto says, the games have so far been very competitive and enjoyable to watch.
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Fair points on the Giants and Cowboy games being competitive. I just prefer to see unique matchups early in the year, and divisional matchups saved for later in the season.
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Fair points on the Giants and Cowboy games being competitive. I just prefer to see unique matchups early in the year, and divisional matchups saved for later in the season.
I think you still get that though. Monday night double header (one east coast, one west coast), Thursday night game with the champs, and then this one game that has seemingly become a staple. I do get it though, some rotation might be better for the local fans, I'm not sure the NFL sees it that way though.
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I think the first SNF game of the year would get a high number regardless of who plays.
Looks like the Bears' entire schedule has leaked. They get to HOST Atlanta in week 1 and have two prime time games in their first 5. Got to love those big market teams....
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A close game isn't necessarily a good game.
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Last season was proof of that, but I think the games in question were actually good games.
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I doubt I could find a reason to consider Cowboys/Giants a "good game" under any circumstances. If the stakes were lifetime organ donations for the winners and public execution for the losers, I still would struggle to stay awake.
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Looks like the Eagles will host the Raiders on Christmas Night (MNF) this year. Looks like Philly also has back to back west coast games late in the year (@Seattle & @LA Rams)
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Seattle to open their season up @Green Bay. This has produced some good games in years past. Panthers open up @SF for the Hef/Bosk Bowl.
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Um...yay?
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Um...yay?
Loser has to keep France.
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Dang...
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:france:
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Hearing that the Ravens are finally hosting another MNF game, week 12 against Houston. Now hopefully we don't end our year @ Cincy yet again.
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What I can't wait to see is if Romo actually replaces Simms on CBS. For some reason I just can't fathom that.
I can. And the people will rejoice.
Romo would have to be an absolute trainwreck to be worse than Simms. This is a long-awaited change for many, many football fans.
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I don't know anyone that's a Phil Simms fan when it comes to his broadcasting.
Phil Simms certainly is
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I don't know anyone that's a Phil Simms fan when it comes to his broadcasting.
Phil Simms certainly is
Someone being their own biggest fan is what has led us to our current political climate. It's never a good thing.
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The Jets schedule isn't terrible but isn't great either. I don't have high hopes for this season anyway, and we are stuck with a five week stretch featuring both Super Bowl participants, two other division games, and a Buccaneers team on the rise before our bye, but we also get the Jaguars and Browns in back to back games as well as the Saints in Chargers in back to back games. If they can steal a victory or two during that tough five game stretch, this season could turn out better than expected. Not a fan of the super late bye week two years in a row though nor do I like the fact that our home opener isn't until week 3. Hell, we don't get to start or end at home. We also only have one primetime game on our schedule, playing the Bills on TNF for the third year in a row. :\
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Since the NFL instituted all division match ups for week 17, here’s how the Ravens have closed their regular seasons:
2010 Cincinnati @ Baltimore
2011 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2012 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2013 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2014 Cleveland @ Baltimore
2015 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2016 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2017 Cincinnati @ Baltimore
So every year that we get Cincy, Pittsburgh gets Cleveland. It's beyond ridiculous and unimaginative.
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Completely agree.
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I don't know anyone that's a Phil Simms fan when it comes to his broadcasting.
I actually like him. Not John Madden or Chris Collinsworth, but the worst one in the Nance/Simms team is clearly Jim Nance. I fucking hate that guy. When he called the UConn-Duke Championship (UConn's first) with Billy Packer, it was the worst call in the history of sports in my opinion (rather than celebrate the upstart and the upset, both guys were almost pleading with Duke to get it going. Duke this, Duke that). Then right after UConn beat Duke in the Final Four to get to the Championship (against Georgia Tech) my friends ran into him and he was like "You have no chance. NO chance!" blah blah blah. He's a tool.
(And yes, I realize this is all subjective, homer nonsense on my part, but still.)
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Since the NFL instituted all division match ups for week 17, here’s how the Ravens have closed their regular seasons:
2010 Cincinnati @ Baltimore
2011 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2012 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2013 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2014 Cleveland @ Baltimore
2015 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2016 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2017 Cincinnati @ Baltimore
So every year that we get Cincy, Pittsburgh gets Cleveland. It's beyond ridiculous and unimaginative.
When you get Cinci, is there another team in the division that Pittsburgh could get? :neverusethis: But yeah, 8 years and 7 of them against Cinci is just a little skewed.
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Since the NFL instituted all division match ups for week 17, here’s how the Ravens have closed their regular seasons:
2010 Cincinnati @ Baltimore
2011 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2012 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2013 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2014 Cleveland @ Baltimore
2015 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2016 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2017 Cincinnati @ Baltimore
So every year that we get Cincy, Pittsburgh gets Cleveland. It's beyond ridiculous and unimaginative.
When you get Cinci, is there another team in the division that Pittsburgh could get? :neverusethis: But yeah, 8 years and 7 of them against Cinci is just a little skewed.
I get that. But there should also be years where it's Baltimore vs. Pittsburgh & Cleveland vs. Cincinnati. I suppose the league puts so much value on the Baltimore/Pittsburgh match up that they're against having one of the games in Week 17.
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I don't know anyone that's a Phil Simms fan when it comes to his broadcasting.
I actually like him. Not John Madden or Chris Collinsworth, but the worst one in the Nance/Simms team is clearly Jim Nance. I fucking hate that guy. When he called the UConn-Duke Championship (UConn's first) with Billy Packer, it was the worst call in the history of sports in my opinion (rather than celebrate the upstart and the upset, both guys were almost pleading with Duke to get it going. Duke this, Duke that). Then right after UConn beat Duke in the Final Four to get to the Championship (against Georgia Tech) my friends ran into him and he was like "You have no chance. NO chance!" blah blah blah. He's a tool.
(And yes, I realize this is all subjective, homer nonsense on my part, but still.)
Funny how my original comment about Romo turned into comments about everyone else except Romo. I really didn't mind any of those other commentators. Just can't see Romo as an analyst/commentator. If it's any like his press conferences, people will be bored to tears.
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I'm a bit amazed how someone can just step into that spot with no previous experience. From my understanding, it was also Nance that wanted Simms out. They talked about it quite a lot on the Boomer and Carton show (on a CBS radio station) because Boomer was not at all happy with the way Simms was treated.
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Nance wanted him out.
That said, I mute most football games. Except sometimes for the Fox A team.
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I don't mute, but the volume is turned down/almost zero most of the time, because the commentators never seem to take a breath. Collinsworth is the most knowledgeable analyst in his presentations that I have ever heard.....but I suffer from overload, and only listen to parts of the NBC broadcasts. I don't need EVERY play analyzed to death, and appreciate some silence from time to time.
Back to the schedules for a sec...
The Ravens FINALLY get a home MNF game, but as mentioned earlier, sooooo tired of finishing against the Bengals, as well as starting with Cincy (07, 08, 12, 14, 17). Also, every year, I see so many teams with tough or unfair schedules, due to the dates and times and travel. Here is Baltimore's schedule before the bye (why teams don't have it before TNF still makes no sense):
Week
1 Sun, Sep 10 @Cincinnati 1:00 PM
2 Sun, Sep 17 Cleveland 1:00 PM
3 Sun, Sep 24 @Jacksonville* 9:30 AM
4 Sun, Oct 1 Pittsburgh 1:00 PM
5 Sun, Oct 8 @Oakland 4:05 PM
6 Sun, Oct 15 Chicago 1:00 PM
7 Sun, Oct 22 @Minnesota 1:00 PM
8 Thu, Oct 26 Miami 8:25 PM
9 Sun, Nov 5 @Tennessee 1:00 PM
10 BYE WEEK
And to show I am by no means a 'homer' (some of the time), here is the ridiculous Patriots' ending schedule:
9 BYE WEEK
10 Sun, Nov 12 @Denver 8:30 PM
11 Sun, Nov 19 @Oakland 4:25 PM
12 Sun, Nov 26 Miami 1:00 PM
13 Sun, Dec 3 @Buffalo 1:00 PM
14 Mon, Dec 11 @Miami 8:30 PM
15 Sun, Dec 17 @Pittsburgh 4:25 PM
16 Sun, Dec 24 Buffalo 1:00 PM
17 Sun, Dec 31 N.Y. Jets 1:00 PM
I think it's one of the reasons that the quality of play continues to drop, due to the players never getting a chance to get into a 'rhythm' physically. Hopefully, other than T'giving, TNF becomes a set of long forgotten initials after this season.
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To be fair to the Baltimore folks, they did get the Steelers in a very meaningful game last year towards the end of the season. As long as the divisions are 4 teams per, as they are now, you've got to expect to see a lot of repetition in the schedule from year to year. If they ever went back to the old divisions then they'd have more teams to move the scheduling around to.
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Since the NFL instituted all division match ups for week 17, here’s how the Ravens have closed their regular seasons:
2010 Cincinnati @ Baltimore
2011 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2012 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2013 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2014 Cleveland @ Baltimore
2015 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2016 Baltimore @ Cincinnati
2017 Cincinnati @ Baltimore
So every year that we get Cincy, Pittsburgh gets Cleveland. It's beyond ridiculous and unimaginative.
This is the first year since the "all division matchups in week 17" rule was instituted that the Jets and the Patriots close out their seasons against each other, so I feel your pain. The rule was supposed to make for more exciting matchups at the end of the season but it's had the opposite effect for the most part.
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I don't mind it. :lol
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I don't mind it. :lol
That makes one of us :sadpanda:
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The Super Bowl champs get one of their road games as a neutral site game now, since the Pats at Raiders game is the one in Mexico. Don't ever tell me again that the NFL doesn't love the Patriots.
No prime time games for the Jags. Much appreciated!! :lol :lol
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They also play a neutral site game in Buffalo and New York every year! ;D
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Both times that the Pats played in London, they were the visiting team, so nothing new there.
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Against crappy teams. This time, they are facing a very good team.
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Which makes it even dumber. The defending champs should always get as difficult a schedule as possible. Making one of their toughest road games a neutral site game is showing major favoritism to them again.
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5 of the last 6 games are on the road this year. That's tough.
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You might want to look at their schedule again. :P
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Which makes it even dumber. The defending champs should always get as difficult a schedule as possible. Making one of their toughest road games a neutral site game is showing major favoritism to them again.
Gonna try and post this and NOT sound like a homer..
Aren't the schedules predetermined based on a rotating out of conference/inter conference division matchup, plus playing the same placed team in the other divisions in your conference?
What do you think the NFL should do special for SB winners?
As far as these foreign games, I guess I'm not sure how the teams are chosen. Is it negotiated? I thought I heard the Jags make more money playing in London than one of their home gates.
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You are correct, yes. All of the games are predetermined because of divisions and where you finish.
I believe it goes like this:
6 games against your division
8 games against two divisions (which are predetermined)
2 games based on where you finished last year (a 3rd place finish means you play two other 3rd place finishers)
All I am saying is, giving the champs a neutral site game for what should have been one of their toughest road games is really stupid and shows incredible favoritism. Certain teams always seem to get those road games turned into neutral site games (NE!!) and never have to give away one of their home games.
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But wasn't the game and its participants agreed on before the SB?
I think the Raiders were on board first as the home team long before their opponent was even determined, no? I think the Pats came far later in the process.
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Oh I get that. Don't worry Kev, we're in Denver again. That should even us out over the last 6 years.
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In Denver AGAIN! It seems like the Pats play there every f'n year.
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We had a 3 years run of them coming to Foxborough.
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We had a 3 years run of them coming to Foxborough.
In the 80's?
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Do your homework son!
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Oh I get that. Don't worry Kev, we're in Denver again. That should even us out over the last 6 years.
Pfft.
Yeah, you have to play at Denver after having a bye, and sure now the Broncos get them at home when we aren't a juggernaut anymore. Bah.
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I sure hope the Pats are paying rent for the space in Kevin's head. ;D
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The Broncos are 3-1 against the Patriots in the playoffs in the Brady/Belichick era, with the only loss being when we started Tebow. I'm good. :coolio :hat
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The Broncos are 3-1 against the Patriots in the playoffs in the Brady/Belichick era, with the only loss being when we started Tebow. I'm good. :coolio :hat
(https://i.giphy.com/PBLOaOTisp2mI.gif)
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Oh I get that. Don't worry Kev, we're in Denver again. That should even us out over the last 6 years.
Pfft.
Yeah, you have to play at Denver after having a bye, and sure now the Broncos get them at home when we aren't a juggernaut anymore. Bah.
Just a QB away from being great again.
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That's a myth. Siemian was fine last year. The run D falling apart and the O-line sucking is why the team bit the dust down the stretch. However, I will be curious to see how Siemian does this year without Kubiak, who is one of the best QB coaches ever.
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There was a hangover from the SB.
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Horse hockey. ;)
They started the season strong, but faded as the run D became more of a liability and teams teed off on the QB because they couldn't run the ball or pass block worth a darn.
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Well then you could say the lack of balance affected the D.
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From what I saw, I thought Siemian was pretty good.
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Mexico City is NOT a neutral location when the Raiders are playing. They and los vacaros are the two main teams down there. The Patriots are going to have beer thrown all over them and lasers pointed at them. They'd probably be better off playing in Oakland.
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Mexico City is NOT a neutral location when the Raiders are playing. They and los vacaros are the two main teams down there. The Patriots are going to have beer thrown all over them and lasers pointed at them. They'd probably be better off playing in Oakland.
I always got the impression that Dallas was a popular team in Mexico. I remember watching a preseason game (I think) a few years back, and that was the feeling that I got, anyways.
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My family and I just got our tickets for Giants @ Broncos on Sunday Night Football this season. Really stoked to get out there again, I was there for Monday Night Football when they played Houston last year and that stadium is just magical at night. :metal
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My family and I just got our tickets for Giants @ Broncos on Sunday Night Football this season. Really stoked to get out there again, I was there for Monday Night Football when they played Houston last year and that stadium is just magical at night. :metal
That's awesome. Nothing like football under the lights in a sold out stadium.
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The NFL Draft is the most unnecessarily over-hyped, over-analyzed, and over-discussed thing in the history of the universe.
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The NFL Draft is the most unnecessarily over-hyped, over-analyzed, and over-discussed thing in the history of the universe.
Try getting into it when your team doesn't even pick until the end of the 3rd round.
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Free agency had to give you a woody though EB.
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I have never found it the least bit interesting, no matter where "my team" was picking. These days, it is all I can do to muster enough interest to watch a game, and they NFL wants me to be interested in picking teams? Not happening.
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Free agency had to give you a woody though EB.
Oh, I'm not complaining. Do have to wonder, though, how many running backs do the Patriots need?
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I'll assume it will all flush out by the end of pre season.
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During the post-Mariucci, pre-Harbaugh years, I got really, really into the draft. When you're hoping for a savior, it can be pretty compelling. Since then, I haven't had as much interest in it, even though the Niners suck again.
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The NFL Draft is the most unnecessarily over-hyped, over-analyzed, and over-discussed thing in the history of the universe.
Agreed. I'll flip over to it during hockey commercials to see the latest picks, but I cannot imagine going out of my way to watch a freaking NFL draft.
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I swear it's been taking up about 80% of sports talk radio the past two weeks. My three least favorite words in the English language are "mock draft" and "bracketology."
On the bright side, it has been good to see Ryan Leaf has gotten his life back on the right track after seriously derailing himself.
https://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-ryan-leaf-20170311-story.html
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The NFL draft has always been entertaining to me, and this goes back to when it the format was Saturday & Sunday (read not Prime Time). I'm a die hard Ravens fan, so of course I want to see what they do and who they draft. I'm a college football fan, so I've been following these players for a few years, and want to see where they end up. It's compelling drama to me, but I can see why it's not for everyone. And I certainly wouldn't begrudge someone choosing playoff Hockey over it, because let's face it, playoff hockey is incredible, and massively underrated in this country.
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I have no interest in watching the draft, but I'd bet you more TVs in Pittsburgh will be tuned into watching the Steelers pick 30th or whatever on Thursday night than will be watching the Pens and Caps first game. Silly football town :lol
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I have THIS much interest in the Draft, but it is certainly overhyped.
So, Adrian Peterson to the Saints? Thoughts? Floyd?
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I'm waiting for Josh's switch video on Facebook.
I always check in but I can't watch hours on hours of the coverage. I like reading what the local reporters tell us about each player drafted. Hell in this day and age, I wait for them to put something on Twitter.
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I'm psyched for the first round on Thursday, but I really don't have much (any) knowledge of college football so the later rounds kind of lose me.
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Honetly, and this applies to the basketball draft as well, I just check in the next day to see who from UConn was drafted (and for the NFL, who the first pick was, who the Giants took, and who the Pats took. Maybe any trades.).
I don't spend one minute listening to what Mel Kuiper thinks. (Though I'd love to see a survey of his mock drafts versus the actual draft to see if he's got any juice or if he's full of shit).
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So, Adrian Peterson to the Saints? Thoughts? Floyd?
I'm not thrilled but I'm trying to withhold my dissatisfaction until his playing warrants it. I remember literally saying "FUCK!" when I heard we'd signed Jeremy Shockey in 2008 but he turned out okay despite being a snitch-ass bitch during the bounty thing (if it really bothered him that much, he had numerous other opportunities to come forward before dog piling when it was a big scandal and could decimate a division rival's chances of being competitive that season as he was then with the Panthers.)
My huge issue is that the Saints, under Payton/Loomis, have a ridiculously long track record of shipping out productive players as soon as they'll be ANY kind of hit on the cap and we continue to be cap-stricken by Brees' contract so it's basically a matter of us waving the white flag every time we have to compete with other teams to keep our proven players once they become free agents.
I just have a very hard time seeing us being competitive at any point during the remainder of Brees' career cuz Payton has 10 years of defensive ineptitude on his resume now (2007 and 2010 were good years but that's it) and we get rid of virtually every good offensive player whom isn't Brees. We've shipped out the following players:
Darren Sproles
Pierre Thomas
Chris Ivory
Khiry Robinson
Jimmy Graham
Kenny Stills
Joe Morgan
Brandin Cooks
Lance Moore
I'm not saying most of these guys did well after leaving but that's irrelevant anyway since they all were productive in our system and none showed any signs of slowing down at the time of their departures.
Also, we seem to think that Mark Ingram is always one year from turning the corner and becoming Walter Payton. I swear he must have some behind-the-scenes leverage on Saints brass in order to keep collecting 16 checks a year.
We also somehow thought it was smart to bring back Roman "Watch me get burned by even the slowest receivers, then catch up to them in the endzone gasping for air and lay down a cheap shot to show 'em who's the man" Harper. That asshole might have had at least five personal fouls every single season he played with us and as many as ten some years. One of the most horribly overrated Saints players ever.
So I've gone on way too long with this post anyway but to bring it all back in and make my final point, AP appears to be on the back end of his career so I don't expect much because of the following issues:
1. Saints offense will be rife with new faces almost every year.
2. Sean Payton will never assemble even an average defense except for the odd year once every five or so years (it's been seven years since this last happened as of now.)
3. In two years, AP will be either completely out of gas or gone for a better payday elsewhere if he miraculously is somehow still a good RB at that point.
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Roman "Watch me get burned by even the slowest receivers, then catch up to them in the endzone gasping for air and lay down a cheap shot to show 'em who's the man" Harper.
HAHA, that got a laugh out loud. :)
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Honetly, and this applies to the basketball draft as well, I just check in the next day to see who from UConn was drafted (and for the NFL, who the first pick was, who the Giants took, and who the Pats took. Maybe any trades.).
I don't spend one minute listening to what Mel Kuiper thinks. (Though I'd love to see a survey of his mock drafts versus the actual draft to see if he's got any juice or if he's full of shit).
Yea essentially this. The draft is pretty boring to watch IMO. And I wouldn't be surprised if there's money involved with Kipers mock drafts. I just like to see the final results and hope my team gets players that will fill holes (as well as hoping PSU players get drafted to help with recruiting future players). Grading the draft the next day means little to me as well. The draft won't be known for at least a year if it was good for a team.
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I only pay attention to the report cards that come out at the end, and the invariable B-/C+ Bill will get. Since I don't watch college ball, I have no idea who any of these people are, so the analysis is the only meaningful thing for me.
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I actually paid a lot more attention when it was on Saturday/Sunday morning/afternoon. Dragging it out for days in prime time annoys me, though it's guaranteed to get more viewers.
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^
This, this, and this.
Also, back in those days, there was so much less focus on the draft, and more coverage of games that were actually being played in the other sports. So I would listen to some of it and follow along. Now it's blah blah blah 24x7 by a gazillion more 'experts' who have been talking nonstop since the first week of January, so much so that I ignore all of it now. I'll check in when it's all over.
'The more you have, the less you have.'
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I have a sneaky suspicion that Peterson is going to have a really good year with the Saints.
I have a less sneaky suspicion that it may not matter, with their defense.
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Happy Mel Kiper Jr Day!
“I was told from the get-go, ‘You’re wasting your time. You’re going to have to get a job — a real job — at some point,’” Kiper told Shutdown Corner last week. “You can’t support a family doing this stuff.”
Within a few years, he went from being an 18-year-old home scout who was self-publishing and giving away his draft previews to NFL teams to becoming a self-confident 23-year-old explaining to ESPN audiences his vast knowledge about college football prospects from around the country. The rest is history.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/todays-nfl-draft-hysteria-can-thank-mel-kiper-jr-joel-buchsbaum-181351478.html
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As to ESPN's coverage.....
https://www.si.com/tech-media/2017/04/26/espn-layoffs-firings-list-details
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As to ESPN's coverage.....
https://www.si.com/tech-media/2017/04/26/espn-layoffs-firings-list-details
Death throes, hopefully. It's time for ESPN to go.
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As to ESPN's coverage.....
https://www.si.com/tech-media/2017/04/26/espn-layoffs-firings-list-details
Death throes, hopefully. It's time for ESPN to go.
Truth. Their programming is beyond awful. At this point, they are pretty much pointless. If I want to see highlights of the game from last night, I don't need to suffer through an hour long SportsCenter with bad talent trying to be funny to see them cover the highlights of my team for 30 seconds, I can just go online and watch the highlights without hassle.
Happy Mel Kiper Jr Day!
“I was told from the get-go, ‘You’re wasting your time. You’re going to have to get a job — a real job — at some point,’” Kiper told Shutdown Corner last week. “You can’t support a family doing this stuff.”
Within a few years, he went from being an 18-year-old home scout who was self-publishing and giving away his draft previews to NFL teams to becoming a self-confident 23-year-old explaining to ESPN audiences his vast knowledge about college football prospects from around the country. The rest is history.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/todays-nfl-draft-hysteria-can-thank-mel-kiper-jr-joel-buchsbaum-181351478.html
I'd agree with those folks who told him to get a real job, his shtick is pretty much pointless TBH.
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As to ESPN's coverage.....
https://www.si.com/tech-media/2017/04/26/espn-layoffs-firings-list-details
Death throes, hopefully. It's time for ESPN to go.
Truth. Their programming is beyond awful. At this point, they are pretty much pointless. If I want to see highlights of the game from last night, I don't need to suffer through an hour long SportsCenter with bad talent trying to be funny to see them cover the highlights of my team for 30 seconds, I can just go online and watch the highlights without hassle.
Happy Mel Kiper Jr Day!
“I was told from the get-go, ‘You’re wasting your time. You’re going to have to get a job — a real job — at some point,’” Kiper told Shutdown Corner last week. “You can’t support a family doing this stuff.”
Within a few years, he went from being an 18-year-old home scout who was self-publishing and giving away his draft previews to NFL teams to becoming a self-confident 23-year-old explaining to ESPN audiences his vast knowledge about college football prospects from around the country. The rest is history.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/todays-nfl-draft-hysteria-can-thank-mel-kiper-jr-joel-buchsbaum-181351478.html
I'd agree with those folks who told him to get a real job, his shtick is pretty much pointless TBH.
It seems to have worked out well for him and the league.
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As to ESPN's coverage.....
https://www.si.com/tech-media/2017/04/26/espn-layoffs-firings-list-details
Death throes, hopefully. It's time for ESPN to go.
The internet is the large factor killing ESPN, but once they started adding their political commentary to sports, I think they hammered the nail in their own coffin. No one wants that.
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It seems to have worked out well for him and the league.
Oh yea, it seems like a good gig, I just think it's a silly and pointless one, that's all.
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As to ESPN's coverage.....
https://www.si.com/tech-media/2017/04/26/espn-layoffs-firings-list-details
Death throes, hopefully. It's time for ESPN to go.
The internet is the large factor killing ESPN, but once they started adding their political commentary to sports, I think they hammered the nail in their own coffin. No one wants that.
Since I don't watch any of it I can't speak to its apparent MTVification. I'm mostly going by its effect on the already unsustainable CATV model. If it curls up and dies it'll foster an even bigger shift in the broadcasting landscape, I figure. At this point CATV is a dinosaur, but the packaged streaming model isn't going to be any better. An a la carte CATV competing with packaged streaming seems like the best bet going forward (although big cable can likely kill that sort of competition).
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As to ESPN's coverage.....
https://www.si.com/tech-media/2017/04/26/espn-layoffs-firings-list-details
Death throes, hopefully. It's time for ESPN to go.
The internet is the large factor killing ESPN, but once they started adding their political commentary to sports, I think they hammered the nail in their own coffin. No one wants that.
Since I don't watch any of it I can't speak to its apparent MTVification. I'm mostly going by its effect on the already unsustainable CATV model. If it curls up and dies it'll foster an even bigger shift in the broadcasting landscape, I figure. At this point CATV is a dinosaur, but the packaged streaming model isn't going to be any better. An a la carte CATV competing with packaged streaming seems like the best bet going forward (although big cable can likely kill that sort of competition).
Making my once-yearly comment in this thread:
The MTV-ification or even the subjective political stuff isn't the issue...it's the cord-cutting, combined with the massive, unsustainable contracts to air NFL games and such. And if ESPN folds, or simply can't renew, it changes the demand curve and therefore the pricing for the rights to air the games. Since those massive rights deals are what drive massive athlete contracts, do player salaries stagnate? Or even drop? There's a bubble that will have no choice but to burst here, and that is a far more interesting angle than ESPN continuing to circle the drain.
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Yeah, cord-cutting is the big thing. Fees for ESPN are built right into most cable packages, because they have the highest fees to charge providers of any cable network. Those fees help them have enough money to pay for all the rights to the sporting events for which they won bids.
With the continued trend of cord-cutting, their income is being cut right out from under them. Sorry guys, it was kind of an asshole business model in the first place, so figure out something different.
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Yea cord cutting is definitely #1, but people arent watching ESPN anymore either.
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NFL will be well insulated, since it's still broadcast networks that air most of the games. Baseball and hockey will be a different matter, but I suppose the effect will just be a fracturing, which could conceivably be even better than having only one player.
Cord-cutting, which big capable still doesn't recognize as a real thing, is certainly leading the change. This would be a secondary front, I think. For all of the people who bitch about ESPN jacking up their cable prices, there are those that only buy cable for ESPN. This whole thing's been brewing for a while, and while we've seen some real changes I don't think we're anywhere close to the final landscape. Net Partiality is now going to open up a front, as well.
Making my once-yearly comment in this thread:
Then it should have been Patriots related, God dammit.
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It doesn't take a genius to figure out who ESPN's target audience is now. Let's put it this way: they slip politics into far too many conversations now, all they talk about is football and basketball, and they are in love with Stephen A. Smith and Jemele Hill. Do the math.
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It doesn't take a genius to figure out who ESPN's target audience is now. Let's put it this way: they slip politics into far too many conversations now, all they talk about is football and basketball, and they are in love with Stephen A. Smith and Jemele Hill. Do the math.
And Michael Smith and Howard Bryant. Yeah, some claim Boston is a racist city, and they are two of Boston's biggest racists!
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Hooray for whatever the Bears and Titans were thinking, very happy that Jamal Adams was waiting for us at six.
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Well it's a very small sample size, but I have to be happy with John Lynch so far. The Niners got quite a haul of draft picks from the Bears to move down one spot and still get the player they wanted.
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Well it's a very small sample size, but I have to be happy with John Lynch so far. The Niners got quite a haul of draft picks from the Bears to move down one spot and still get the player they wanted.
Agreed. That was a hell of of move, especially if they had the Bears convinced that they were going to take Mitch @2.
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I was pleased with the Panthers pick.
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I'm not sure how I feel about the steeler's pick. I watch mostly Big10 in college, and I think that Watt is ok, but I never seen anything from him that would indicate that he's 1st round material.
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I'm not sure how I feel about the steeler's pick. I watch mostly Big10 in college, and I think that Watt is ok, but I never seen anything from him that would indicate that he's 1st round material.
only question mark surrounding Watt are his knees, he's had issues with them throughout his college career. If the knees hold up I have no doubt you'll be very happy.
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Giants got a need (not their biggest need) based on best available. I'm cool with the TE pick.
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Well it's a very small sample size, but I have to be happy with John Lynch so far. The Niners got quite a haul of draft picks from the Bears to move down one spot and still get the player they wanted.
Agreed. That was a hell of of move, especially if they had the Bears convinced that they were going to take Mitch @2.
It's not that the 49'ers convinced the Bears that they wanted to draft him. It's that they were actively shopping their #2 pick to teams that needed QB's that WOULD have traded up ahead of the Bears and drafted him.
So yeah, the Bears gave away quite a few picks, which is debatable, but they made sure that they got the player that they wanted to draft.
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Well it's a very small sample size, but I have to be happy with John Lynch so far. The Niners got quite a haul of draft picks from the Bears to move down one spot and still get the player they wanted.
Agreed. That was a hell of of move, especially if they had the Bears convinced that they were going to take Mitch @2.
It's not that the 49'ers convinced the Bears that they wanted to draft him. It's that they were actively shopping their #2 pick to teams that needed QB's that WOULD have traded up ahead of the Bears and drafted him.
So yeah, the Bears gave away quite a few picks, which is debatable, but they made sure that they got the player that they wanted to draft.
Yeah, I realized that moments after posting, but didn't feel like editing. But I'm surprised the Bears bought it. Would the Texans and Chiefs be willing to go all the way up to two from where they were?
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19264404/commissioner-roger-goodell-says-nfl-sees-no-medical-benefits-marijuana (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19264404/commissioner-roger-goodell-says-nfl-sees-no-medical-benefits-marijuana)
A comment I saw on facebook regarding this "Just when you think you couldn't hate Goodell anymore, then he TOTALLY REDEEMS HIMSELF!" :lol
Honestly, marijuana isn't going to heal players, but it's definitely better for long term pain than prescription pills IMO. Plus it's already legal in many states plus I'm sure players are using it where it's not legal anyway (not that it makes it OK, but at some point you need to look in the mirror and understand where we are trending towards).
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19264404/commissioner-roger-goodell-says-nfl-sees-no-medical-benefits-marijuana (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19264404/commissioner-roger-goodell-says-nfl-sees-no-medical-benefits-marijuana)
A comment I saw on facebook regarding this "Just when you think you couldn't hate Goodell anymore, then he TOTALLY REDEEMS HIMSELF!" :lol
Honestly, marijuana isn't going to heal players, but it's definitely better for long term pain than prescription pills IMO. Plus it's already legal in many states plus I'm sure players are using it where it's not legal anyway (not that it makes it OK, but at some point you need to look in the mirror and understand where we are trending towards).
If Goodell was smart, he'd use pot as a bargaining tool for the next CBA. There are soooo many things the players union should have legit issues with moving forward (like Goodell being judge, jury, and executioner all wrapped in one) but Goodell could probably manage to avoid all that by basically taking pot off the banned substances list.
"Here guys how about this - we don't fix any of these other issues, you let me keep all my power but...... you can smoke pot!" Done deal.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19264404/commissioner-roger-goodell-says-nfl-sees-no-medical-benefits-marijuana (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19264404/commissioner-roger-goodell-says-nfl-sees-no-medical-benefits-marijuana)
A comment I saw on facebook regarding this "Just when you think you couldn't hate Goodell anymore, then he TOTALLY REDEEMS HIMSELF!" :lol
Honestly, marijuana isn't going to heal players, but it's definitely better for long term pain than prescription pills IMO. Plus it's already legal in many states plus I'm sure players are using it where it's not legal anyway (not that it makes it OK, but at some point you need to look in the mirror and understand where we are trending towards).
If Goodell was smart, he'd use pot as a bargaining tool for the next CBA. There are soooo many things the players union should have legit issues with moving forward (like Goodell being judge, jury, and executioner all wrapped in one) but Goodell could probably manage to avoid all that by basically taking pot off the banned substances list.
"Here guys how about this - we don't fix any of these other issues, you let me keep all my power but...... you can smoke pot!" Done deal.
It would probably be good for the NFL from a PR standpoint as well.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19264404/commissioner-roger-goodell-says-nfl-sees-no-medical-benefits-marijuana (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19264404/commissioner-roger-goodell-says-nfl-sees-no-medical-benefits-marijuana)
A comment I saw on facebook regarding this "Just when you think you couldn't hate Goodell anymore, then he TOTALLY REDEEMS HIMSELF!" :lol
Honestly, marijuana isn't going to heal players, but it's definitely better for long term pain than prescription pills IMO. Plus it's already legal in many states plus I'm sure players are using it where it's not legal anyway (not that it makes it OK, but at some point you need to look in the mirror and understand where we are trending towards).
If Goodell was smart, he'd use pot as a bargaining tool for the next CBA. There are soooo many things the players union should have legit issues with moving forward (like Goodell being judge, jury, and executioner all wrapped in one) but Goodell could probably manage to avoid all that by basically taking pot off the banned substances list.
"Here guys how about this - we don't fix any of these other issues, you let me keep all my power but...... you can smoke pot!" Done deal.
It would probably be good for the NFL from a PR standpoint as well.
Exactly. Think how many less suspensions for banned substances there would be if pot wasn't one of them.
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I am shocked that the Bengals were the team that took the RB who was seen on video once punching a woman, say no one ever.
You seriously can't make this stuff up. :lol :lol :lol :lol
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I am shocked that the Bengals were the team that took the RB who was seen on video once punching a woman, say no one ever.
You seriously can't make this stuff up. :lol :lol :lol :lol
They were in the market for Aaron Hernandez too but then he took himself out of the running.
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I am shocked that the Bengals were the team that took the RB who was seen on video once punching a woman, say no one ever.
You seriously can't make this stuff up. :lol :lol :lol :lol
They were in the market for Aaron Hernandez too but then he took himself out of the running.
Actually, I heard that he had trouble getting both feet down.
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I am impressed with the Broncos' draft. Possibly the best offensive lineman, possibly the best tight end....and Chad Kelly at the end....tremendous upside if he can grow up off the field and recover from his injury. Old John did Uncle Jim a favor.
Philadelphia was an amazing site for the draft....really rose the bar for drafts.
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I don't watch enough college ball to know how good these players, but hopefully that tackle from Utah pans out; they need their o-line to get better fast.
Like seeing two WRs drafted. Behind Sanders and Thomas, the drop-off is significant, and Thomas has not lived up to his contract the last two years, so they need some young blood to step up and contribute.
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So I finally caught up on what the Steelers did. Little Watt in the first, if he pans out, would be a great pick, they need some OL pressure. The WR they took in the second seems to be pretty good, should give Ben a 3rd or 4th good option. And James Conner is a fantastic story, love to see that kid get picked in the 3rd, his style should be pretty good with Bell. Conner is more of a north - south downhill guy, they could easily use him on 3rd and short or goal line situations, or as a FB with Bell as RB.
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I was very pleased with the Panthers Draft.
And, actually, from what I've seen, for once it seems that MOST teams had pretty good draft grades, with only a few clunkers.
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So, the Bills fire their GM and scouting staff the day after the draft. That's something one doesn't read about every year (often? ever?).
Now that the draft is over (thank goodness), I'll start reading up on it a bit.
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How did the Browns do in the draft? :rollin They get some of the best draft picks every year and nothing happens. Must be a coaching thing. :justjen
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I think they probably did "OK" in the draft, but they will still suck next season because there is not much talent there to begin with.
Assuming their GM and coaching staff are on the same page and worth a crap (which is, admittedly, a large assumption), I would think they are still 2 or 3 years away from being adequate.
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u
How did the Browns do in the draft? :rollin They get some of the best draft picks every year and nothing happens. Must be a coaching thing. :justjen
Coach is beginning his 2nd year with the team...
It was a front office thing...and that has been rectified. They have had fantastic 2 drafts and they are 2-3 years away from contending.
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I'm not sure they are 2-3 years away from winning a game.
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Every year they are 2-3 years away
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u
How did the Browns do in the draft? :rollin They get some of the best draft picks every year and nothing happens. Must be a coaching thing. :justjen
Coach is beginning his 2nd year with the team...
It was a front office thing...and that has been rectified. They have had fantastic 2 drafts and they are 2-3 years away from contending.
:lol Someone needs to change that to "sometime between now and the end of time."
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u
How did the Browns do in the draft? :rollin They get some of the best draft picks every year and nothing happens. Must be a coaching thing. :justjen
Coach is beginning his 2nd year with the team...
It was a front office thing...and that has been rectified. They have had fantastic 2 drafts and they are 2-3 years away from contending.
Hope springs eternal, and I'd love to be proved wrong, but I think this is wildly optimistic.
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u
How did the Browns do in the draft? :rollin They get some of the best draft picks every year and nothing happens. Must be a coaching thing. :justjen
Coach is beginning his 2nd year with the team...
It was a front office thing...and that has been rectified. They have had fantastic 2 drafts and they are 2-3 years away from contending.
Hope springs eternal, and I'd love to be proved wrong, but I think this is wildly optimistic.
Agreed. 2-3 years away from being a decent team? Maybe? But actually contending? Nah.
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u
How did the Browns do in the draft? :rollin They get some of the best draft picks every year and nothing happens. Must be a coaching thing. :justjen
Coach is beginning his 2nd year with the team...
It was a front office thing...and that has been rectified. They have had fantastic 2 drafts and they are 2-3 years away from contending.
Hope springs eternal, and I'd love to be proved wrong, but I think this is wildly optimistic.
Agreed. 2-3 years away from being a decent team? Maybe? But actually contending? Nah.
I don't see how this is so far fetched. Will Brady and Roethlisberger be around in 2-3 years? The AFC will be up for grabs and as long as the Browns continue to make sound decisions, they'll be in the mix.
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I don't see how this is so far fetched. Will Brady and Roethlisberger be around in 2-3 years? The AFC will be up for grabs and as long as the Browns continue to make sound decisions, they'll be in the mix.
Typically they don't do that though, so maybe things have changed, but until they prove otherwise, I'm going to assume the trend of bad decision making will continue. That's all.
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Don't you have to make a sound decision before you can "continue" making sound decisions?
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The new regime has made several sound decisions. Should be interesting to see how this all plays out.
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Honest question, because I haven't been paying close attention, what are they doing differently than the previous regime? What decisions have they made?
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Well for one, they got rid of Scott 1000 sheets and brought in Cottonelle with aloe. If that ain't a sign of turnin the tide then what is?
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Well for one, they got rid of Scott 1000 sheets and brought in Cottonelle with aloe. If that ain't a sign of turnin the tide then what is?
I think that you've come close to the eternal question. What exactly is a Brown, anyways?
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It's apauling that you don't know the answer.
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It's apauling that you don't know the answer.
I used to think that it was the color of the water in Lake Erie, but it turns out that was just from the pollution.
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Honest question, because I haven't been paying close attention, what are they doing differently than the previous regime? What decisions have they made?
They didn't fire their coach after a 1-15 season that was not his fault whatsoever. They've had two very good drafts, building a ton of draft equity. And it looks like they're drafting the right people. Of course we won't truly know until years down the road for some of these guys, but this doesn't look like the the same Browns team that has been stuck in the suck, at least to me.
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Honest question, because I haven't been paying close attention, what are they doing differently than the previous regime? What decisions have they made?
They didn't fire their coach after a 1-15 season that was not his fault whatsoever. They've had two very good drafts, building a ton of draft equity. And it looks like they're drafting the right people. Of course we won't truly know until years down the road for some of these guys, but this doesn't look like the the same Browns team that has been stuck in the suck, at least to me.
I mean this sincerely, and in the spirit of being a fan, but for your sake, I hope you're right. We will see soon enough, no?
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Honest question, because I haven't been paying close attention, what are they doing differently than the previous regime? What decisions have they made?
They didn't fire their coach after a 1-15 season that was not his fault whatsoever. They've had two very good drafts, building a ton of draft equity. And it looks like they're drafting the right people. Of course we won't truly know until years down the road for some of these guys, but this doesn't look like the the same Browns team that has been stuck in the suck, at least to me.
Yeah I mean that's cool and all but basically they didn't fire a coach and maybe have drafted players that might turn out? Like I said, I'll wait and see...
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I get that folks will believe it when they see it when it comes to Cleveland... it's been a rough go since the team returned, but I'm not putting any of that on the current regime. I'm considering what they have to dig out of and what they've done so far. And on both counts, they're doing fantastic. The only thing that they could have done better was stay at #2 last year and draft Wentz. Dude is legit.
Speaking of the Eagles, their GM has been killing it, and has done a lot to undo the mess that Chip Kelly made.
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...the current regime. I'm considering what they have to dig out of and what they've done so far.
Okay, but what have they done so far? That's the question that hasn't been answered. And I'm not necessarily implying that they haven't done anything. But just that, as an admittedly ignorant and disinterest outsider, I am not aware of anything.
Speaking of the Eagles, their GM has been killing it, and has done a lot to undo the mess that Chip Kelly made.
I think I can say the same thing about the 49ers, at least preliminarily. But time will tell. We have a long road ahead. And given past history, I don't want to underestimate the supreme talent and ability of the 49ers front office to make an abject mess out of any given situation.
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I can kinda see DoC's point. When a team is as bad as the Browns, there's no place to go but up. But, what they've done "so far" hasn't given any indication that they are getting off the bottom anytime soon. Then again, they could have a miracle season this year and everyone will be like WTF??? :lol
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Had an interesting (to me, anyway) thought this morning. In terms of assessing an individual player's legacy, championships often do matter. Whether they should is open for debate. And how much is open to debate. But they do get factored in, and I am taking that as a given. But do some championships count more than others?
I was thinking about this in connection with Brady. If we could re-wind the hands of time, let's assume the following happens: The 2007 season ends with the Pats going 16-0. They win their next two playoff games. But instead of losing to the Giants in Super Bowl XLII, they win it and complete the season sweep. The perfect season is now theirs. And let's say that Brady plays the following years pretty much as he did, but didn't manage to win another Super Bowl, so now he only has 4 instead of 5. But he has THAT one. The one in a wife-to-wire undefeated season. Is that somehow worth more? Is he the G.O.A.T. with only 4 Super Bowls because he has THAT one among his four? I know it's a bit superficial, but I kinda lean toward "yes."
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The GOAT thing is subjective enough that people jump aboard while the train is rolling. He was in definitely in the GOAT consideration before the last SB. He was, albeit to a lesser extent, before the Seattle SB. I think there just comes a tipping point where it starts to becomes an effective consensus. So with that in mind I don't think it's number of SBs that count. Not winning one certainly hurts. Winning 13 would obviously help. Fifteen years of all-pro play with SBs scattered about is far more important, though.
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I agree with all of that. Just curious how much weight yourself and others might give a SB that caps off a perfect season.
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For Brady that would be the cherry on top of his career. Others it would elevate their stature.
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Speaking of Tom.
(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/tom-brady-madden-cover_zpsh0djjctn.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/tom-brady-madden-cover_zpsh0djjctn.jpg.html)
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We can play that game with Brady's first 3 SB wins, which were all decided by narrow margins.
He's in the conversation for sure.
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All I know is I'm hoping the Madden curse has another good year :lol
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We can play that game with Brady's first 3 SB wins, which were all decided by narrow margins.
He's in the conversation for sure.
Is the conversation still ongoing? I honestly thought it was settled at this point.
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We can play that game with Brady's first 3 SB wins, which were all decided by narrow margins.
He's in the conversation for sure.
Is the conversation still ongoing? I honestly thought it was settled at this point.
I certainly hope not, since it's completely opinion based.
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We can play that game with Brady's first 3 SB wins, which were all decided by narrow margins.
He's in the conversation for sure.
Is the conversation still ongoing? I honestly thought it was settled at this point.
My issue with him being considered the GOAT lies in Belichick and the Patriots. Football is the ultimate team sport and nobody is productive alone. Brady has played for the greatest coach of all time on well managed and well structured teams for his whole career. Look at the years where New England's defense wasn't as good or their offense was a bit more one dimensional. While they still made the playoffs, they consistently came up short. Put a guy like Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers on New England's roster and you'll probably see similar results. IMO, Peyton (who I think is the GOAT) should get more credit for being the only starting QB to win a Super Bowl with two different teams than Brady who once again played for the best coach ever for his entire career.
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^^^Peyton's a valid choice, so I'm not arguing with you. I'll just point out that the reason you question Brady's status is a bigger problem with Peyton. He was the week link on the second superbowl team, and won on the backs of his D.
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We can't hold it against Brady that Manning won with two different teams.
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I understand the reasoning but there has been only 2 times the Pats spent money on the offensive side of the ball. 2007 and this year yet they produce. I'm just happy to see his name in rarefied air.
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All I know is I'm hoping the Madden curse has another good year :lol
Mason said the same thing to me on Facebook. :lol
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We can play that game with Brady's first 3 SB wins, which were all decided by narrow margins.
He's in the conversation for sure.
Is the conversation still ongoing? I honestly thought it was settled at this point.
My issue with him being considered the GOAT lies in Belichick and the Patriots. Football is the ultimate team sport and nobody is productive alone. Brady has played for the greatest coach of all time on well managed and well structured teams for his whole career. Look at the years where New England's defense wasn't as good or their offense was a bit more one dimensional. While they still made the playoffs, they consistently came up short. Put a guy like Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers on New England's roster and you'll probably see similar results. IMO, Peyton (who I think is the GOAT) should get more credit for being the only starting QB to win a Super Bowl with two different teams than Brady who once again played for the best coach ever for his entire career.
Good post.
Brady certainly has a great argument for being the best QB ever, but here is my issue with that: he has been voted the All-Pro First Team QB twice. Twice. That means that, for all of his postseason success, he was only considered the best QB in the league by voters twice in his 15 NFL seasons to date (excluding 2008). Meanwhile, Peyton Manning was All-Pro First Team SEVEN times, which means he was considered the best QB in the league in nearly half of his years (7 out of 16).
As much as some like to do it, we cannot dismiss the regular season like it means nothing and that the postseason means everything. Manning played 293 games, 266 of which were in the regular season, but we are supposed to act like 91% of his career doesn't really matter? Hogwash.
And if titles mean everything, then Brady, Montana and Bradshaw are the best of the Super Bowl era, right?
Note: I am not saying the postseason means nothing, just that it shouldn't mean everything.
As big a dick as I think Dan Marino is, he unfairly gets left out of GOAT QB conversations simply because he never won a Super Bowl, even though he was blowing every QB out of the water for much of his career (he was putting up obscene numbers back when passing numbers weren't even close overall to what they are now).
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What really hurts Marino is that he had the same coach like most say about Brady/Belichick yet they did not dominate their division during their run. Buffalo 4 years in a row in the SB (That's just insane) and the Pats winning the division a few times going to the SB once.
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I tend to be pro-Marino in some ways and anti-Marino in others.
On the one hand, what he did despite no running game and dropping back so often, was incredible. Dropping back to throw that often was suicide for any other QB back then.
On the other hand, I don't give him the "he didn't win a Super Bowl because he never had a running game" pass that some do, considering he didn't want a running game. He imposed his will to the point that the team acquiesced to him and didn't even try to get him a running game (until Jimmy Johnson was his coach late in his career) because he didn't want one.
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There are so many pros and cons. The best I can say is I hated to face him as a Pats fan because of how he played against us and that is high praise.
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And if titles mean everything, then Brady, Montana and Bradshaw are the best of the Super Bowl era, right?
On a certain level, I do believe this. TB's numbers weren't as pretty as most of the other guys that usually get mentioned as the greatest QB's, but his end results were impressive. I'd also add Bart Star into the conversation. His effectiveness just prior to the SB era, and at its beginning at the position is often over looked. Roger Staubach should be mentioned from that era as well.
However, there are certain guys that earned an exception. You can't do what Marino did year after year without being god-like. Had Elway not got the two at the end of his career he would have still been considered one of the greatest of all time by a long shot.
There are so few at the position that had a high degree of success over a long period of time. There's a short, but significant list of guys that deserve recognition.
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Browns :facepalm:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/browns-4th-round-pick-to-undergo-surgery-after-freak-injury/ar-BBB668a?li=BBnb7Kz
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And if titles mean everything, then Brady, Montana and Bradshaw are the best of the Super Bowl era, right?
On a certain level, I do believe this. TB's numbers weren't as pretty as most of the other guys that usually get mentioned as the greatest QB's, but his end results were impressive. I'd also add Bart Star into the conversation. His effectiveness just prior to the SB era, and at its beginning at the position is often over looked. Roger Staubach should be mentioned from that era as well.
However, there are certain guys that earned an exception. You can't do what Marino did year after year without being god-like. Had Elway not got the two at the end of his career he would have still been considered one of the greatest of all time by a long shot.
There are so few at the position that had a high degree of success over a long period of time. There's a short, but significant list of guys that deserve recognition.
I am not sure I agree about Elway. I remember the narrative about him before those two Super Bowl wins was "a great QB who could't win the big one." I am not sure history would have been kind to him had he not gotten those rings, especially since he didn't really put up big numbers until the end of his career (freaking Dan Reeves).
But you are right about sustaining excellence over the long haul, and in that regard, Drew Brees is criminally underrated. All he does every year is play the QB position at an elite level (regardless of who he is throwing to), yet he will never get his real due, I fear. I mean, in the last 15 years, there have been four all-time great elite QBs, and Brees is undoubtedly one of them (along with Brady, Peyton and Rodgers).
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And if titles mean everything, then Brady, Montana and Bradshaw are the best of the Super Bowl era, right?
On a certain level, I do believe this. TB's numbers weren't as pretty as most of the other guys that usually get mentioned as the greatest QB's, but his end results were impressive. I'd also add Bart Star into the conversation. His effectiveness just prior to the SB era, and at its beginning at the position is often over looked. Roger Staubach should be mentioned from that era as well.
However, there are certain guys that earned an exception. You can't do what Marino did year after year without being god-like. Had Elway not got the two at the end of his career he would have still been considered one of the greatest of all time by a long shot.
There are so few at the position that had a high degree of success over a long period of time. There's a short, but significant list of guys that deserve recognition.
I am not sure I agree about Elway. I remember the narrative about him before those two Super Bowl wins was "a great QB who could't win the big one." I am not sure history would have been kind to him had he not gotten those rings, especially since he didn't really put up big numbers until the end of his career (freaking Dan Reeves).
But you are right about sustaining excellence over the long haul, and in that regard, Drew Brees is criminally underrated. All he does every year is play the QB position at an elite level (regardless of who he is throwing to), yet he will never get his real due, I fear. I mean, in the last 15 years, there have been four all-time great elite QBs, and Brees is undoubtedly one of them (along with Brady, Peyton and Rodgers).
Brees is my all time favorite quarterback. Speaking of those four QB, they all have one thing in common: they won titles when they had good defenses.
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And if titles mean everything, then Brady, Montana and Bradshaw are the best of the Super Bowl era, right?
On a certain level, I do believe this. TB's numbers weren't as pretty as most of the other guys that usually get mentioned as the greatest QB's, but his end results were impressive. I'd also add Bart Star into the conversation. His effectiveness just prior to the SB era, and at its beginning at the position is often over looked. Roger Staubach should be mentioned from that era as well.
However, there are certain guys that earned an exception. You can't do what Marino did year after year without being god-like. Had Elway not got the two at the end of his career he would have still been considered one of the greatest of all time by a long shot.
There are so few at the position that had a high degree of success over a long period of time. There's a short, but significant list of guys that deserve recognition.
I am not sure I agree about Elway. I remember the narrative about him before those two Super Bowl wins was "a great QB who could't win the big one." I am not sure history would have been kind to him had he not gotten those rings, especially since he didn't really put up big numbers until the end of his career (freaking Dan Reeves).
But you are right about sustaining excellence over the long haul, and in that regard, Drew Brees is criminally underrated. All he does every year is play the QB position at an elite level (regardless of who he is throwing to), yet he will never get his real due, I fear. I mean, in the last 15 years, there have been four all-time great elite QBs, and Brees is undoubtedly one of them (along with Brady, Peyton and Rodgers).
I do remember hearing some of those rumblings about Elway before the end, but I mostly ignored them. I like to think that people would have looked back at him fondly after his career was over, but I could be coloring that view with my own admiration of him.
And Brees, you're completely right. In fact, I'm often guilty of ignoring him to a certain extent, myself. Then I'll catch a game, or some highlights at a point during the season and be reminded of how great the guy really is. I do have a specific memory of him lighting up my Buckeyes when he was in college at Purdue, and I knew that he was going to be something really special. I'm still baffled by how things went for him in San Diego at the beginning of his pro career, but I suppose that some of that can be attributed to the organization that he was playing for. That team seems to have a knack for screwing the pooch on a fairly regular basis.
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Brees is my all time favorite quarterback. Speaking of those four QB, they all have one thing in common: they won titles when they had good defenses.
The '09 Saints was a strange one. They gave up a crap load of yards, but forced turnovers like crazy, and it seems like every time I watched one of their games that year, they were forcing a turnover and returning it for a touchdown. That is statistically one of the worst defenses to ever win the Super Bowl (along with the 2011 Giants), but they managed to make big stops/play when they needed to.
I do remember hearing some of those rumblings about Elway before the end, but I mostly ignored them. I like to think that people would have looked back at him fondly after his career was over, but I could be coloring that view with my own admiration of him.
We'll never know, but the masses tended to rarely look back fondly on great QBs who never won a ring. See: Dan Marino. ;)
And Brees, you're completely right. In fact, I'm often guilty of ignoring him to a certain extent, myself. Then I'll catch a game, or some highlights at a point during the season and be reminded of how great the guy really is. I do have a specific memory of him lighting up my Buckeyes when he was in college at Purdue, and I knew that he was going to be something really special. I'm still baffled by how things went for him in San Diego at the beginning of his pro career, but I suppose that some of that can be attributed to the organization that he was playing for. That team seems to have a knack for screwing the pooch on a fairly regular basis.
So true. Rivers is arguably the best of the big three QBs from the 2005 draft, but he won't have two rings like Eli and Ben both do, so he will never be thought of as better than either of those guys all-time (even those he is).
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I look at Ben better but not by a lot.
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Ben is better now. Both have declined a tad, but Rivers has fallen a bit further. However, Roethlisberger has never been as good as Rivers was from 2008-2010.
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The AFC championship game against the Pats when he was injured .are me a believer. He is one tough SOB.
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brady will never be the GOAT in my opinion because of spygate, deflategate and all of the other instances that the patriots have been caught cheating. Brady is a great quarterback, and Belichick is a great coach, but they are both cheaters. Always have been, always will be.
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brady will never be the GOAT in my opinion because of spygate, deflategate and all of the other instances that the patriots have been caught cheating. Brady is a great quarterback, and Belichick is a great coach, but they are both cheaters. Always have been, always will be.
It's not like Brady benefitted from performance enhancing drugs. And it's not like he ONLY won with underinflated balls.
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brady will never be the GOAT in my opinion because of spygate, deflategate and all of the other instances that the patriots have been caught cheating. Brady is a great quarterback, and Belichick is a great coach, but they are both cheaters. Always have been, always will be.
Yes and many other championship teams didn't cheat either.
I feed off your hate. I hope it emotionally ruins you when they win #6 this year.
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brady will never be the GOAT in my opinion because of spygate, deflategate and all of the other instances that the patriots have been caught cheating. Brady is a great quarterback, and Belichick is a great coach, but they are both cheaters. Always have been, always will be.
It's not like Brady benefitted from performance enhancing drugs. And it's not like he ONLY won with underinflated balls.
You're right. If you remove the cheating, the pats would probably still have at least one super bowl championship. but definitely not all of them. for example, it is a documented fact that the patriots videotaped the rams practices before the 2001 super bowl. during those practices, the rams introduced a brand new play that they had literally never run in a game or practice. it was completely new. During the super bowl, Warner called out the signals to initiate the play, and the patriots linemen responded by telling the rest of the defense what the play would be, and informing the backs/dbs of the exact guys to cover. obviously the play was unsuccessful. just one of the many examples of the patriots cheating ways.
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Again that false accusation was proved false so go ahead, keep making things up. Did the Pats deserve what they got for Soygate? Yes. BB taped in an area that was not allowed after the memo came out before the season.
Now you do know Jimmy Johnson said he did the exact thing and so did Bill Cowher?
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Did the Pats deserve what they got for Soygate?
Definitely. They had way over the legal amount of tofu in their cafeteria.
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I have zero interest in litigating Spygate again, but for now all I will say is that Goodell did them no favors by destroying the evidence, because it gave the impression at the time that he was protecting them after slapping them on the wrist. If there was nothing else there, the public should have been able to eventually see that, but oh wait, the evidence is all gone.
Regardless, Belichick is still the best coach ever, and Brady is still in the GOAT conversation.
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Brees is my all time favorite quarterback. Speaking of those four QB, they all have one thing in common: they won titles when they had good defenses.
The '09 Saints was a strange one. They gave up a crap load of yards, but forced turnovers like crazy, and it seems like every time I watched one of their games that year, they were forcing a turnover and returning it for a touchdown. That is statistically one of the worst defenses to ever win the Super Bowl (along with the 2011 Giants), but they managed to make big stops/play when they needed to.
Brees should get more attention no doubt, and he should have won the MVP in 2009. Could have won it in other years too. Only issue with Brees is I feel he hurts his team, via his salary. Then again, Rodgers probably does the same too. As a result, he very well may never win again.
brady will never be the GOAT in my opinion because of spygate, deflategate and all of the other instances that the patriots have been caught cheating. Brady is a great quarterback, and Belichick is a great coach, but they are both cheaters. Always have been, always will be.
It's not like Brady benefitted from performance enhancing drugs. And it's not like he ONLY won with underinflated balls.
You're right. If you remove the cheating, the pats would probably still have at least one super bowl championship. but definitely not all of them. for example, it is a documented fact that the patriots videotaped the rams practices before the 2001 super bowl. during those practices, the rams introduced a brand new play that they had literally never run in a game or practice. it was completely new. During the super bowl, Warner called out the signals to initiate the play, and the patriots linemen responded by telling the rest of the defense what the play would be, and informing the backs/dbs of the exact guys to cover. obviously the play was unsuccessful. just one of the many examples of the patriots cheating ways.
Marshall Faulk everyone, posting in the forum!
(https://www.csnne.com/sites/csnne/files/2017/02/02/marshall-faulk-ty-law-012517x.jpg)
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/30/marshall-faulk-patriots-cheated-the-rams-out-of-a-super-bowl/
Or is this Charles Woodson??? The Raiders would have one that SB, too!
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/0ff65dbcffa45a02f8ec3d8e1bc04cdccc4c8a22/c=274-51-2006-1353&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2016/12/09/USATODAY/USATODAY/636168794578232863-AFP-C0-BACKHIT-PATRIOTS-21-NFL.jpg)
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/02/charles-woodson-still-fuming-over-patriots-2001-playoff-win/
;) ;) ;) :biggrin:
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I hope everyone saw the Pats practicing the week before the SB IN 2014 for the exact play that Butler made the interception on. That's called preparation, not what Faulk thinks.
Our coach was better than Faulk's coach.
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Pssh. NO ONE outsMartz Mike Martz.
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A running back in Mike Martz system has every right to feel cheated. The problem with this situation is that the running back's anger is mis-placed. It should be directed at his own coach, instead.
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brady will never be the GOAT in my opinion because of spygate, deflategate and all of the other instances that the patriots have been caught cheating. Brady is a great quarterback, and Belichick is a great coach, but they are both cheaters. Always have been, always will be.
One, the crime of the Pats in Spygate is not that they did what they did (by all accounts it was a common practice in the league), it's that they were targeted and they got caught. Not really an advantage when every one is doing it, is it?
Two, BRADY didn't deflate the balls. Whether he knew about it or not has never been proven. And you have to account for the fact that his numbers were okay in the first half - with the allegedly "deflated" balls - and were LIGHTS OUT in the second half after the balls were brought back into code. (And it was never conclusively proved that it wasn't the environmental conditions of the game that accounted for the pressure loss, by the way).
Three, can you enlighten us on "all of the other instances"? I don't recall hearing about "all of the other instances". Must've missed those.
Bottom line is this: EVERY TIME the Pats get caught "cheating", and the world is watching them, they take it to the next level and win games they have no business winning. You don't cheat your way to the type of Super Bowl win they just had over the Falcons, nor the type of Super Bowl win they had over the Seahawks.
I suppose you're going to claim that Pete Carroll was on the Pats' payroll or something? Or Belichick had pictures of Carroll with a pretty coed, the USC mascot, and a bucket of Crisco?
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Did the Pats deserve what they got for Soygate? Yes.
I don't think that opinion amounts to a hill of beans.
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One, the crime of the Pats in Spygate is not that they did what they did (by all accounts it was a common practice in the league), it's that they were targeted and they got caught. Not really an advantage when every one is doing it, is it?
It was a thing that had been disallowed and the Pats had been warned. Did they cheat? Well, they broke the rule.
Also there's this:
I have zero interest in litigating Spygate again, but for now all I will say is that Goodell did them no favors by destroying the evidence, because it gave the impression at the time that he was protecting them after slapping them on the wrist. If there was nothing else there, the public should have been able to eventually see that, but oh wait, the evidence is all gone.
Two, BRADY didn't deflate the balls. Whether he knew about it or not has never been proven.
I guess it hasn't been "proven", but there's no way he didn't know about it. None. In fact, there's no way Belichick didn't know about it. I'm not saying they were told to deliberately be below the NFL minimum, but these guys were there to get the balls the way Brady likes them.
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Did the Pats deserve what they got for Soygate? Yes.
I don't think that opinion amounts to a hill of beans.
You mean at the time the bigest fine of all time with a #1 draft pick? Yeah it was just a slap on the wrist.
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Did the Pats deserve what they got for Soygate? Yes.
I don't think that opinion amounts to a hill of beans.
You mean at the time the bigest fine of all time with a #1 draft pick? Yeah it was just a slap on the wrist.
No. I was only referring to soy beans.
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:lol
Holy crap I missed that. Again you win good sir.
Also I'm a red or black bean and rice guy. Not a hill of them though.
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Not a fan of black beans myself. Maybe on like a southwest chicken salad. But otherwise, they are not my legume of choice.
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A running back in Mike Martz system has every right to feel cheated. The problem with this situation is that the running back's anger is mis-placed. It should be directed at his own coach, instead.
Marshall Faulk was never more productive than when he played in Mike Martz's offense.
Two, BRADY didn't deflate the balls. Whether he knew about it or not has never been proven.
I guess it hasn't been "proven", but there's no way he didn't know about it. None. In fact, there's no way Belichick didn't know about it. I'm not saying they were told to deliberately be below the NFL minimum, but these guys were there to get the balls the way Brady likes them.
Exactly. I have been consistent all along that deflating footballs is like doing 70 in a 55, but while there is no way to prove Brady knew it, common sense tells us that he did. Saying a QB doesn't know if a football he touches on every play is different is like the equipment guy putting bigger, illegal pads on a hockey goalie and then saying, "The goalie didn't know!" Of course he would know. Just like any QB would know.
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Completely agree. Goodell stopped them and was looking for 25 years to life.
I'm sorry, the 31 other butthurt owners....
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"The cover-up is always worse than the crime."
Had Brady manned up and admitted it right away, he likely gets a 25 or 50K fine and it's a mere footnote.
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One issue there Kev, was that this was right before the Super Bowl. People were not only calling for Brady to be suspended for the SB, but for the Pats to vacate their spot.
I think if this happened in Week 1 of the regular season, the Pats would've handled much differently. I think they had to deny it up the ass because of the looming SB.
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It's not a crime, it's jaywalking turned into murder.
21 million dollars later Brady still won #5.
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A running back in Mike Martz system has every right to feel cheated. The problem with this situation is that the running back's anger is mis-placed. It should be directed at his own coach, instead.
Marshall Faulk was never more productive than when he played in Mike Martz's offense.
When Martz was only the OC, sure. That team was amazing. After he became the HC it was almost like he forgot how to call run plays. I understand that running the ball wasn't going to be the focus of that team under most circumstances, but the running game wasn't even a threat under most of his tenure.
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And I enjoy his tears every time Faulk cries.
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And I enjoy his tears every time Faulk cries.
He was a great player, but I can understand why you folks in New England would feel that way.
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Be absolutely was. But how he's handled himself in the media since makes me enjoy those moments.
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Be absolutely was. But how he's handled himself in the media since makes me enjoy those moments.
He's been a complete ass. I get it. He probably has a right to be upset, but to whine every time he's on TV, C'mon man!
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He's also quoting folklore as gospel.
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A running back in Mike Martz system has every right to feel cheated. The problem with this situation is that the running back's anger is mis-placed. It should be directed at his own coach, instead.
Marshall Faulk was never more productive than when he played in Mike Martz's offense.
When Martz was only the OC, sure. That team was amazing. After he became the HC it was almost like he forgot how to call run plays. I understand that running the ball wasn't going to be the focus of that team under most circumstances, but the running game wasn't even a threat under most of his tenure.
*Disclosure; I have never lived on the east coast. I started following NE in 95-96, when they were 6-10. I had two Marshall Faulk jerseys, one for each team he played for.*
I think Faulk is a top 5 RB, his numbers in 99-01 are astounding. And the surrounding years are HoF worthy too most likely. He lives in the past, and as you said Powerslave, Martz shares a big part of fault. Man was delusional thinking he can overcome turnovers. That being said, it is a team game. The team that Marshall hates ran into the same problem that his team did, twice. If Marshall was given the ball 40 times to run, I'm sure NE would have continued pummeling him.
-Dork time, and I just did the numbers. 17 for 76, 4 for 4. 10 carries of 3 yards or less, one for 12 and 15 (longest). His ratio of rush attempt to reception was higher in the SB than during the season (3.13 to one). He had 24.5 per game touches in the season, 21 in the SB.
I doubt 3-4 more touches would have been the game.
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He's also quoting folklore as gospel.
Hey, don't knock it, you can get elected president by doing that :neverusethis:
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:lol
How dare you lump him with...
Oh, wait a minute...
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:yawn:
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A running back in Mike Martz system has every right to feel cheated. The problem with this situation is that the running back's anger is mis-placed. It should be directed at his own coach, instead.
Marshall Faulk was never more productive than when he played in Mike Martz's offense.
When Martz was only the OC, sure. That team was amazing. After he became the HC it was almost like he forgot how to call run plays. I understand that running the ball wasn't going to be the focus of that team under most circumstances, but the running game wasn't even a threat under most of his tenure.
That is simply not true. Martz became the head coach in 2000 and Faulk was a beast of epic proportions in '00 and '01. In fact, he was MVP of the league in 2000, Martz's first year as the head coach!
And I enjoy his tears every time Faulk cries.
He was a great player, but I can understand why you folks in New England would feel that way.
Patriots fans hate anyone who dares speak out against their beloved team. I mean, they hate Tomlinson for no reason whatsoever, and LT2 was one of the classier players in the NFL in the 00s.
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A running back in Mike Martz system has every right to feel cheated. The problem with this situation is that the running back's anger is mis-placed. It should be directed at his own coach, instead.
Marshall Faulk was never more productive than when he played in Mike Martz's offense.
When Martz was only the OC, sure. That team was amazing. After he became the HC it was almost like he forgot how to call run plays. I understand that running the ball wasn't going to be the focus of that team under most circumstances, but the running game wasn't even a threat under most of his tenure.
That is simply not true. Martz became the head coach in 2000 and Faulk was a beast of epic proportions in '00 and '01. In fact, he was MVP of the league in 2000, Martz's first year as the head coach!
And I enjoy his tears every time Faulk cries.
He was a great player, but I can understand why you folks in New England would feel that way.
Patriots fans hate anyone who dares speak out against their beloved team. I mean, they hate Tomlinson for no reason whatsoever, and LT2 was one of the classier players in the NFL in the 00s.
I think the hate for Tomlinson probably comes from his reaction after that playoff game where he went on a rant about New England players disrespecting the Chargers. That's only a guess on my part. Seeing as how he ended up playing for the Jets later in his career probably doesn't help his cause, either.
About Martz, yes I'm talking a little bit out of my ass, but from a certain point of view there's some truth to it. I do know that Jon Kitna (when he was the OC of the Lions), and Jay Cutler (when he was the OC for the Bears) got absolutely beat to death. Partly due to opposing defenses pinning their ears back, and cranking up the pass rush. Supposedly there's some NFL Films footage of Cutler losing his shit during a game because Martz kept sending him on deep drops, and they weren't running the ball ect. ect... I remember reading some stuff on it years ago, but I can't remember any specifics. Then there's the fact that Kurt Warner ended up looking like a lost cause a few years after Martz took over the Rams. It took everything that the Steelers had, and James Harrison making one of the most remarkable plays in SB history to barely squeak by KW in that game well after the Rams gave up on him.
I'm not a Mike Martz fan :lol
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Kev, I can admire his play but hate him for how he handles himself about the team I follow. That's not hard to understand.
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Exactly. I have been consistent all along that deflating footballs is like doing 70 in a 55, but while there is no way to prove Brady knew it, common sense tells us that he did. Saying a QB doesn't know if a football he touches on every play is different is like the equipment guy putting bigger, illegal pads on a hockey goalie and then saying, "The goalie didn't know!" Of course he would know. Just like any QB would know.
Except you're not talking about handing a guitar player a set of drumsticks. "Common sense" (which, of course, we all know there is no such thing) says that it's somewhere firmly in that "gray zone". Brady throwing a football likely said something along the lines of "hey, ball douche, toss me that ball. I like it better. it's not as "blown up"." Fast forward to Championship Game, and the team is in the locker room and Belichick is telling his team "The difference is in the DETAILS! We need every person in this room, from Brady down to the ball douche to be doing EVERY SINGLE THING THEY CAN to win this game! Execution! Focus! Details!" Fast forward to ball douche preparing the balls and... you can fill in the rest. Things don't happen like they do on NCIS, where there is a neat little trail for Abbie Sciuto to suss out with the latest Infrared Refractory Fingerprint Oscillator.
Forget about "right" or "wrong"; the NFL said they broke the rules, they were punished, so be it. I don't say this to argue that the punishment was wrong or too harsh, but just as a practical matter, I honestly don't think Brady DID know the details, since I don't for a second believe that there were actually details to be known.
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Man, I used to love Marshall Faulk, he was an awesome RB.
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The guy's nickname was The Deflator, for fucks sake. Brady absolutely knew.
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The guy's nickname was The Deflator, for fucks sake. Brady absolutely knew.
He was known as "The Deflator" for being able to get footballs to within 0.25 PSI of the minimum of 12.5 PSI.
Is that true? I don't know, and neither do you. I had a guy on my softball team that was named "The Hammer". He really wasn't a "hammer". I knew a guy in college who was nicknamed "Dog", but here's the funny thing: he wasn't really a dog, in any sense of the word. Not four-legged, not sexually, not hygiene. Go figure, huh?
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But for fucks sake Stadler!
The actions of the league during the investigation as well as the way they handled the the 3 allegations for the Giants this past year should show you what a farce it all was.
Your real issue is you're tired of their dominance which I get because i did the same thing with Dallas ect...
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But for fucks sake Stadler!
The actions of the league during the investigation as well as the way they handled the the 3 allegations for the Giants this past year should show you what a farce it all was.
Your real issue is you're tired of their dominance which I get because i did the same thing with Dallas ect...
Joe, I think you're misreading that. Stadler has been defending Brady.
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No, the first line was a joke to Stadler because we both responded to PB1's post saying "For fucks sake". :lol
The rest was for PB1.
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Oh for fuck's sake kingshmegland! :lol
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:lol
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The guy's nickname was The Deflator, for fucks sake. Brady absolutely knew.
He was known as "The Deflator" for being able to get footballs to within 0.25 PSI of the minimum of 12.5 PSI.
Is that true? I don't know, and neither do you. I had a guy on my softball team that was named "The Hammer". He really wasn't a "hammer". I knew a guy in college who was nicknamed "Dog", but here's the funny thing: he wasn't really a dog, in any sense of the word. Not four-legged, not sexually, not hygiene. Go figure, huh?
thanks for that completely irrelevant personal anecdote. it doesn't change a thing.
Yes, the patriots are a great organization. Yes, Belichick and Brady are hall of fame players. Yes, The Patriots, including Brady and Belichick have cheated for years. Brady absolutely was involved in deflating footballs to gain an edge over his opponents.
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Brady absolutely was involved in deflating footballs to gain an edge over his opponents.
You can't seriously be offended by that can you? To gain an edge? If you don't think that every QB in the league has a personal football masseuse, you're crazy.
You can be put off by the Pats' smugness over the whole thing, but if you're upset at the fact that Brady had a couple of football "preparers", I think you're being naïve about what goes on in the league.
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Might as well take every trophy away from every team that won then.
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I'm not a Mike Martz fan :lol
I'm not either. His total disregard for timeouts was just crazy (how many times did the Rams run out of timeouts in the 3rd quarter?), and his style was one the league figured out somewhat quickly, but for three glorious years, the offense he ran was the greatest any of us had ever seen.
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Brady absolutely was involved in deflating footballs to gain an edge over his opponents.
Simple: Prove it. You're so sure, prove it.
Here's the thing that most naysayers don't get: this isn't like "rape" or "murder", where if you can prove sex or find a body, you've got a crime. And if you can prove "planning", you've got conspiracy. Depending on the timing, depending on the outcome, deflating the balls to 12.6 PSI is NOT illegal. Deflating the balls to 12.4 PSI IS illegal. There are a 100 things besides "deflating" that could move those balls from 12.6 to 12.4, and none of them are a "crime". Brady telling the "Deflator" (it is my understanding he gives happy endings in the locker room, thus the nickname) to "make those balls like I like 'em!" is not a crime itself, and is not indicative of a crime. People who are not celebrities want to impress celebrities. This would not be the first time - not in a long shot (have you read "Hammer of the Gods", about Led Zeppelin? Do you think Richard Cole would have done half of what he did if it wasn't for the pleasure of Robert Plant, Jimmy Page and/or John Bonham?) - that someone took direction and went overboard to "please their boss".
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Christ, even I'm tired of debating this shit now. People have made up their minds and emotionally entrenched themselves. I maintain that the balls weren't even deflated, per the Wells Report, but nobody seems to care, so life goes on.
In other news, Blount is off to Phili. I'm pretty cool with this. I'm happy for him to get a shot somewhere and NE gets a compensatory pick for him. He could be a good fit for Phili's offense. However, my money would be on another Pittsburgh type adventure. Either way it seems like a win for all.
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Speaking of Brady and the Patriots...
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/tom-brady-suffer-concussion-last-year-gisele-says-132941059.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/tom-brady-suffer-concussion-last-year-gisele-says-132941059.html)
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Speaking of Brady and the Patriots...
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/tom-brady-suffer-concussion-last-year-gisele-says-132941059.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/tom-brady-suffer-concussion-last-year-gisele-says-132941059.html)
Jerry Jones: Laurel, get Little Roger on the phone.
Roger Goodel: Yes sir, Mr. Jones. I'm already on top of it.
Roger Goodel: Melinda, get Ted Wells on the phone please.
Ted Wells: Sure, Roger. One number six, coming up.
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Yep EB.
If the refs don't see it and the player hides it from the team there is nothing anyone can do.
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I don't really see it as a provable actionable offense based just on what Giselle says, but then again, we know that Goodell doesn't seem to need any of that and has a hard on for the Pats so I wouldn't rule out a fine or something.
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If the concussion protocol wasn't followed, then something needs to happen, or no one is going to take it seriously.
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It's already kind of a joke. Who was it that got knocked the fuck out 18 months go and remained in the game to take a game losing sack? Kev would know. In any case, I'm not sure there's any protocol problem here. If nobody knew he might have gotten his bell rung then I'm not sure where any problem would arise from a rules standpoint.
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Cam Newton got crushed last year against Denver. I think some players will hide it when it's mild.
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It's already kind of a joke. Who was it that got knocked the fuck out 18 months go and remained in the game to take a game losing sack? Kev would know. In any case, I'm not sure there's any protocol problem here. If nobody knew he might have gotten his bell rung then I'm not sure where any problem would arise from a rules standpoint.
Case Keenum @ Baltimore in 2015 comes to mind.
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It's already kind of a joke. Who was it that got knocked the fuck out 18 months go and remained in the game to take a game losing sack? Kev would know. In any case, I'm not sure there's any protocol problem here. If nobody knew he might have gotten his bell rung then I'm not sure where any problem would arise from a rules standpoint.
Case Keenum @ Baltimore in 2015 comes to mind.
Yup, that's the one. That dude finished the game from Henrietta. Kind had that Trevor Berbick thing going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=204GsqfRlKc
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Brady telling the "Deflator" (it is my understanding he gives happy endings in the locker room, thus the nickname) to "make those balls like I like 'em!"
:rollin
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The Steelers just cut Ladarius Green for a failed physical. Not a hugely surprising move, but they didn't address the position in the draft. Jesse James is a capable TE, but I'm not sold on him being a full time starter.
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The Steelers just cut Ladarius Green for a failed physical. Not a hugely surprising move, but they didn't address the position in the draft. Jesse James is a capable TE, but I'm not sold on him being a full time starter.
Yup, it's definitely a gap for them in what is an otherwise stacked offense.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/rejoice-nfl-reportedly-set-allow-group-celebrations-tds-154612384.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/rejoice-nfl-reportedly-set-allow-group-celebrations-tds-154612384.html)
This is actually pretty cool on the NFL to ease up a bit
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Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
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Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
No green text?
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Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
No green text?
:lol
My bad, I'll try again -
Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
Definitely being sarcastic. :lol
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Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
No green text?
:lol
My bad, I'll try again -
Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
Definitely being sarcastic. :lol
Don't feel bad. There's been a few times that I should have used it, and forgot as well. :biggrin:
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OBJ skipping NYG OTA's again. What a clown. :lol
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He's laying on a net somewhere.......
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:rollin Concussion protocol due to an altercation with a net.
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Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
No green text?
:lol
My bad, I'll try again -
Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
Definitely being sarcastic. :lol
At least this is a more positive rule change. It allows players to enjoy themselves while also trying keeping the game respectful. The shortened OT in the regular season, elimination of the first round of roster cuts, and addition of medical tents on the sidelines are also great rule changes. Everyone shits all over Goodell for all of the bad decisions he has made (myself included) so why not give him credit when he does something right?
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Shortened OT is a bad thing. No game should ever end in a tie. Play til somebody wins the damn game.
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I'm perfectly fine with ties. They're a unique oddity like scoring safeties and Browns wins. Also, games are long enough as it is so it sucks to see players having even more chances to get injured or being in worse shape for the next game due to exacerbated fatigue, especially if the OT game is right before a Thursday game.
One ironic thing is that tie games actually break ties for teams' final records better than any actual tiebreaking procedure except for rare cases of two teams with ties in their records finishing with identical records.
Also, since the implementation of OT to regular season games, only three seasons have had two tied games (1986, 1997, and 2016) and all others have had one or less. We're talking about something that has occurred less than 1% of the time, at most, in any season over the last 43 years. Even with the "OMFG the Saints beat Brett Favre!" frantic OT format change of 2012, we've still only had five ties in five seasons which is less than 0.4% of those 1280 games played.
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Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
No green text?
:lol
My bad, I'll try again -
Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
Definitely being sarcastic. :lol
At least this is a more positive rule change. It allows players to enjoy themselves while also trying keeping the game respectful. The shortened OT in the regular season, elimination of the first round of roster cuts, and addition of medical tents on the sidelines are also great rule changes. Everyone shits all over Goodell for all of the bad decisions he has made (myself included) so why not give him credit when he does something right?
I would be GLAD to give him credit where credit is due. One, I'm not sure he's the guy for "rule changes" - isn't there a committee that reviews and suggests the changes, then the owners vote on them? So there's that. And two, I'm with El Barto. Play until there is a winner. As for "elimination of first round roster cuts", I have to be honest, I'm not seeing the plusses and minuses of that one just yet. I'm sure there's a money grab in there somewhere, or some union concession, but if it's the latter, where's the net gain for the fans or the league?
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I'm perfectly fine with ties. They're a unique oddity like scoring safeties and Browns wins. Also, games are long enough as it is so it sucks to see players having even more chances to get injured or being in worse shape for the next game due to exacerbated fatigue, especially if the OT game is right before a Thursday game.
One ironic thing is that tie games actually break ties for teams' final records better than any actual tiebreaking procedure except for rare cases of two teams with ties in their records finishing with identical records.
Also, since the implementation of OT to regular season games, only three seasons have had two tied games (1986, 1997, and 2016) and all others have had one or less. We're talking about something that has occurred less than 1% of the time, at most, in any season over the last 43 years. Even with the "OMFG the Saints beat Brett Favre!" frantic OT format change of 2012, we've still only had five ties in five seasons which is less than 0.4% of those 1280 games played.
Your point about ties being a tie-breaker down the road is pretty interesting. Haven't considered that before. However, they're breaking ties that might not have even happened if there had been a W/L in somebody's column. The frequency with which they occur doesn't matter. Once is too many. Moreover, they're all but insuring that there will be more now going forward, and it's completely unnecessary.
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The relative rareness is, for me, the reason why you get rid of it. It's not as if every Sunday football players are going to be playing hours and hours of extra football.
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I always thought that the NCAA's way of handling overtime in football games was better than the NFL. The NFL did greatly improve upon things the last time they updated their rules, though.
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I always thought that the NCAA's way of handling overtime in football games was better than the NFL. The NFL did greatly improve upon things the last time they updated their rules, though.
I like the NCAA as well just because it's more exciting, but it's not really the same as playing a quarter of football which makes the OT not really a different type of game so I wouldn't push the NFL to do that. Unless they go the hockey route and do the NCAA route for the regualr season (and therefore not have ties) and keep playing for the playoffs.
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Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
No green text?
:lol
My bad, I'll try again -
Seems like Rodger is addressing the important things.
Definitely being sarcastic. :lol
At least this is a more positive rule change. It allows players to enjoy themselves while also trying keeping the game respectful. The shortened OT in the regular season, elimination of the first round of roster cuts, and addition of medical tents on the sidelines are also great rule changes. Everyone shits all over Goodell for all of the bad decisions he has made (myself included) so why not give him credit when he does something right?
I would be GLAD to give him credit where credit is due. One, I'm not sure he's the guy for "rule changes" - isn't there a committee that reviews and suggests the changes, then the owners vote on them? So there's that. And two, I'm with El Barto. Play until there is a winner. As for "elimination of first round roster cuts", I have to be honest, I'm not seeing the plusses and minuses of that one just yet. I'm sure there's a money grab in there somewhere, or some union concession, but if it's the latter, where's the net gain for the fans or the league?
Yeah I'm pretty much with Stadler on this one. If you (CountofNYC) think these are positive changes, more power to you. I'm just (1) not seeing these as positive (not really negative either, just kinda meh) and (2) not sure Rodger should get all the credit.
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Shootout!
Play a quarter, then have field goals at five yard intervals until someone misses!
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Shootout!
Play a quarter, then have field goals at five yard intervals until someone misses!
Only if each team has to choose three different players that aren't kickers. We could have some Yackety Sax shit going on at the end of games, and it might actually improve ratings... :lol
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Shootout!
Play a quarter, then have field goals at five yard intervals until someone misses!
Only if each team has to choose three different players that aren't kickers. We could have some Yackety Sax shit going on at the end of games, and it might actually improve ratings... :lol
:lol
Upon further reflection I'd love that. I'd bet a fiver Bill has four or five players cross-trained to kick FG's. Hell, Edelman was probably a kicker at some point in his life anyway, between side-gigs in soccer and Australian rules football.
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EB, Nate Ebner played Rugby for the USA Olympic team in 2016.
You know BB is all for it. :lol
Also, Flutie drop kick.
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I actually don't hate the idea of play a 10 minute quarter (I'd rather 15 but I'll compromise) and do a kicking contest to break a tie. It might make teams play pretty differently if it came down to kickers where the team with the worse kicker would start playing aggressive to win instead of two teams just settling for a tie because no one wants to lose.
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Also, Flutie drop kick.
I remember something about that, but none of the details. Didn't they invoke some sort of obscure rule that nobody had used in several years, or something along those lines?
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Also, Flutie drop kick.
I remember something about that, but none of the details. Didn't they invoke some sort of obscure rule that nobody had used in several years, or something along those lines?
It was just a never used option. Sort of like the fair catch free kick. The game was meaningless and was very likely Flutie's last to play in. Belichick knew that it hadn't been done in ages and offered Flutie the chance. He saw it as a gesture of respect for Flutie's career. Flutie made the kick and is now known as the last person to do it in 75 years, and the last person ever since the play was removed from the rule book not too long ago.
edit: https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2277308
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3EaLfpZjaw
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Shootout!
Play a quarter, then have field goals at five yard intervals until someone misses!
No, I say let the punters kick from their own 40. Whichever team's punter can put it out of bounds closest to the goal line wins. :corn
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That's a cool option; I would be okay with that (and it's sort of in keeping with Belichick's ethos of using the grinders and deep roster players to win, as opposed to the "Superstars" who don't win squat.
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I say we judge which team has the hottest cheerleaders.
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I say we judge which team has the hottest cheerleaders.
The Giants need cheerleaders first
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Not a bad idea.
Since this certainly isn't going to win any games (this football isn't even going in the general direction of the goalposts, let alone THROUGH them):
(https://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q591/Stadler111/Jaguars%20Lose_zpssfyc5lcj.jpg)
At least they'll have a chance with this:
(https://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q591/Stadler111/Jaguars%20Win_zps76vezjon.jpg)
I clicked on one of those "You'll never believe these 10 epic cheerleader fails!" things, and there was a picture of a Jag cheerleader and she may be the second most beautiful woman I've ever seen. But I can't find the exact picture, so this one will do.
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I say we judge which team has the hottest cheerleaders.
You're just asking for the Browns to be doomed to further failure.
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I say we judge which team has the hottest cheerleaders.
You're just asking for the Browns to be doomed to further failure.
(https://www.chilloutpoint.com/images/2009/march/ugly-cheerleaders/ugly-cheerleaders03.jpg)
Has 0-16 written all over it!
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I say we judge which team has the hottest cheerleaders.
You're just asking for the Browns to be doomed to further failure.
(https://www.chilloutpoint.com/images/2009/march/ugly-cheerleaders/ugly-cheerleaders03.jpg)
Has 0-16 written all over it!
:lol
That might actually be an upgrade!
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Your point about ties being a tie-breaker down the road is pretty interesting. Haven't considered that before. However, they're breaking ties that might not have even happened if there had been a W/L in somebody's column.
The fact remains that having a tie in your record is far less likely to have your record matching that of another team.
The frequency with which they occur doesn't matter. Once is too many.
In your opinion, yes, but your opinion isn't fact so this statement has nothing to do with a credible debate.
Moreover, they're all but insuring that there will be more now going forward, and it's completely unnecessary.
Maybe, maybe not. First, you might wanna try to hunt down stats on how many OT games reach the 5:00 remaining mark and then realize that number will likely be reduced by a good, if not great, amount when teams are faced with the reality of a tie 5:00 earlier than they'd have been in years past. Teams not willing to settle for a tie will be more aggressive in the waning minutes of OT no matter how long the period is and obviously more so than they'd be if they thought they still had 5:00 left to work with.
Yeah, the shorter the OT, the less chance for a tie to be broken but 10:00 is still plenty of time. Also, you're still gonna get the occasional instance of a team being okay with a tie for whatever reason (far inferior team just desperate to avoid a loss to a team they had no business taking to overtime in the first place so they're just happy to avoid a loss in a game they have little confidence in themselves to win or a team that has the #1 seed wrapped up already and just wants to get out without risking further injury.)
I'm not agreeing with their decision to conservatively play for a tie either but rather I'm pointing out how the length of the OT, alone, doesn't specifically affect the outcome that severely in scenarios like that.
Lastly, I think the college OT rules taint single season scoring records. The same player could possibly get two or more TDs in the same sequence of OTs in a single game and a team could very possibly go to OT twice or more in the same season and we could see seldom-broken records like receiving TDs in a season being reset numerous times in a fairly short span of seasons before plateauing, all because of a more advantageous amount of time to work with.
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Lastly, I think the college OT rules taint single season scoring records. The same player could possibly get two or more TDs in the same sequence of OTs in a single game and a team could very possibly go to OT twice or more in the same season and we could see seldom-broken records like receiving TDs in a season being reset numerous times in a fairly short span of seasons before plateauing, all because of a more advantageous amount of time to work with.
I could not agree more.
I always think it's terrible to see a 13-13 college game end up 42-40 thanks to their ridiculous OT system.
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I'm not really worried about the score so much as I'm concerned with how they end up at the end (win/loss) result. Maybe any stats that are gained after regulation should come with an asterisk, or separated in some manner?
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I'm not crazy about the college method for the reasons mentioned. It should come down to the playing of football. Might as well flip a coin if you're going to abandon the rules of the game. At the same time, nobody likes ties. Despite wanting to sport argue about it, even BF would most likely be in that camp. The league should be trying to move away from them rather than making them more likely.
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I was slightly confused by your wording but it seemed like you were implying I don't like ties. If so, then that's not my stance. I'm not saying I want teams to go 8-3-5 as a final season record but I really enjoy the uniqueness of them. I started watching the NFL in 1988 and saw a tie in 1989 and missed the lone one from 1988. After that, the league had its longest tie drought ever which lasted until 1997. I'd usually be pulling for ties in OT games I was watching if the outcome would have no immediate impact on the Saints. I find it intriguing how no two players on the same team ever seem to have identical feelings after a loss. Some are mildly put off, some almost seem to laugh at the odd feeling of not knowing how to feel, some are pissed and disappointed. You just don't get that out of a win or loss.
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I had spent 8 years of my life ('89-'97) in Eagles country (Eastern PA). So I had a lot of friends who were Eagle fans. Being from Maryland originally, I immediately became a Ravens fan when we stole the Browns. So naturally, my eyes lit up with the NFL released their 1997 schedule and learned that the Ravens would be playing (in the regular season) for the first time. That turned into months of trash talk and such with the friends. Then the day finally came.. and we could not wait to see who would win....
a 10-10 tie..... totally unfulfilling.
I actually had to wait until 2008 to finally see the Ravens beat the Eagles, but the Super Bowl win that I enjoyed between those games made everything else well worth it.
I don't like ties, but agree that they're useful in lowering the chances of identical records, and relying on a list of tiebreaking scenarios.
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I was slightly confused by your wording but it seemed like you were implying I don't like ties. If so, then that's not my stance. I'm not saying I want teams to go 8-3-5 as a final season record but I really enjoy the uniqueness of them. I started watching the NFL in 1988 and saw a tie in 1989 and missed the lone one from 1988. After that, the league had its longest tie drought ever which lasted until 1997. I'd usually be pulling for ties in OT games I was watching if the outcome would have no immediate impact on the Saints. I find it intriguing how no two players on the same team ever seem to have identical feelings after a loss. Some are mildly put off, some almost seem to laugh at the odd feeling of not knowing how to feel, some are pissed and disappointed. You just don't get that out of a win or loss.
And I think this is what lead to many NFL players not even knowing a game can end in a tie (Was that McNabb? :lol)
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Just saw that John Clayton was also let go from ESPN. This commercial of his for ESPN is classic IMO (and well kind of relates to the musical theme of this forum) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL69SXxPmXo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL69SXxPmXo)
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One of the best commercials they ever did!
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John "The Professor" Clayton is local here, so I forget he was part of ESPN's staff too. He has a daily radio show here, which you might be able to get on Sirius or something like that, if you are a fan of his. Aside from his impeccable knowledge of football, he has a wonderful wit and is a pleasure to listen to.
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I just read that the station he's on in Seattle was once affiliated with ESPN but isn't anymore. His thank you was a display of grace.
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It has just gotten so bad at ISPN (the I is for 'Idiotic' or 'Immature').
Here's a :facepalm:
"Dallas Cowboys Cornerback Nolan Carroll was arrested by Dallas police for driving while intoxicated early Monday morning. Dallas police said an officer pulled Carroll over for driving the wrong way on McKinney Avenue after leaving Sidebar in Uptown.
A "welcome to Dallas party" was being thrown for Carroll, according to social media posts. Sidebar is about a half-mile from Carroll's arrest location."
Yes, indeed. That is one welcome party he'll never forget.
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In all fairness everybody's driven the wrong way down McKinney Ave at some point in their lives. I'm not saying he wasn't fucked up, but this isn't like those people who go the wrong way down a highway entrance ramp and kill a family of 17. It's one-way in places, two-way in places, with trolley tracks down the middle in other places. All the streets run at angles and occasionally double back onto themselves. I've lived here 46 years and I avoid that whole area like the plague because I always get turned around and turn a 5 minute trip into 20.
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(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/IMG_20170609_223523_zpsdfqd6ohr.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/IMG_20170609_223523_zpsdfqd6ohr.jpg.html)
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He still has another hand.
(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/IMG_20170609_230358_zpssqtcyi90.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/IMG_20170609_230358_zpssqtcyi90.jpg.html)
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This is how it's done.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DB7TrRaU0AIIlQ-.jpg:large)
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Champion Brass knuckles. :lol
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(https://www.18karatreggae.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Tom-Brady-and-Bill-Belichick-1-678x381.jpg)
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I'd get right in there.
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The ring has 283 diamonds in it. Subtle but clever.
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:rollin for the record I'm a Pats hater obviously but I still respect their greatness... just had to throw that one in there :millahhhh
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The ring has 283 diamonds in it. Subtle but clever.
As usual, it's the small details.
:rollin for the record I'm a Pats hater obviously but I still respect their greatness... just had to throw that one in there :millahhhh
Giggity.
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The good news for me is that I should be able to make a good dent in my beer cellar this season, as the Jets roster should be driving me to the bottle early and often on Sundays.
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The good news for me is that I should be able to make a good dent in my beer cellar this season, as the Jets roster should be driving me to the bottle early and often on Sundays.
I say let's go to a Pats game this year. Just for the tailgating.
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I sure hope the Patriots send Kyle Shanahan a ring since they don't win the game without his moronic play calling.
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No team should ever reward weakness. Same with Pete Carroll.
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The good news for me is that I should be able to make a good dent in my beer cellar this season, as the Jets roster should be driving me to the bottle early and often on Sundays.
0-16 here we come!
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The ring has 283 diamonds in it. Subtle but clever.
As usual, it's the small details.
What are you guys talking about out? I missed it.
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Pats were down 28-3 and made the biggest come back in Superbowl history. Hence 283 diamonds.
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2715597-washington-has-no-one-but-themselves-to-blame-for-kirk-cousins-contract-drama?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
Great article on the crazy dysfunctional Redskins and how they are handling Cousins.
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Classy move by the Chiefs.... not : https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19696424/jeremy-maclin-was-told-kansas-city-chiefs-release-via-voicemail
Their loss... our gain. Welcome to a much classier and more successful organization. I think that Maclin, Perriman and Wallace could prove to be a good WR corp for Flacco.
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I was at work a few weeks ago when a friend texted me about KC planning to release Maclin, and my reply was, "He should go to Baltimore." I felt smart. :P :biggrin:
Maclin went to waste on the Chiefs with Captain Checkdown at QB. He should be great in Baltimore.
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Pretty scary when Yahoo! Sports agrees with me...
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2017-nfl-preview-one-move-shows-browns-finally-get-152437150.html
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Was dreading re-living the 2016 Rams season through "All or Nothing" But found it to be really good. MUCH better than Hard Knocks. If anyone want to watch it just know that there is a rated and Un-Rated version :)
I actually softened on my dislike for Fisher after watching. Guy was just so stubborn in changing his offensive philosophy.
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Wait, Fisher had an offensive philosophy? Who knew?? :lol :lol
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Wait, Fisher had an offensive philosophy? Who knew?? :lol :lol
Yup! Right outta the 1985 Bears Playbook!! :lol
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Bring on football. :hat
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Damn straight! :metal
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I have the Eagles grabbing 10-12 wins and the division title. They gave Wentz a LOT of weapons for what should be his breakout season.
Standing firm that the Browns are making solid moves and are 2-3 years away from contending.
The Ravens could be back in Super Bowl contention, but obviously, the Patriots are the team to beat.
I KNOW that the Falcons are due for a Super Bowl hangover season, but they still look terrific on paper. Maybe Tampa can make a move and steal the division.
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Yep, I think TB is definitely a team on the rise, especially if Winston keeps getting better. Their D got better as the season went on last season, and their receiving corps should be outstanding this year. DeSean Jackson's speed combined with Mike Evans' all-world all-around game will be extremely difficult to defend.
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Bring on football. :hat
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/forumavatars/avatar_92_1492474508.jpeg)
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:lol :lol :lol
We are definitely waiting. :hat
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Tony Dungy ranked Brady the 6th best QB of the modern era (1978-present). I knew he sucked as an analyst, but holy smokes. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Personal feelings got in the way of that one.
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More like Butt Feelings got in the way.
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Well, butt yeah.
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And it's not like he voted strictly on personal feelings across the board. He didn't even have Manning in his top 3.
Top 5 from the main ESPN list was:
1 Brady
2 Manning
3 Montana
4 Elway
5 Rodgers
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And it's not like he voted strictly on personal feelings across the board. He didn't even have Manning in his top 3.
Top 5 from the main ESPN list was:
1 Brady
2 Manning
3 Montana
4 Elway
5 Rodgers
I don't think I'd put Eli that high on the list.
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And it's not like he voted strictly on personal feelings across the board. He didn't even have Manning in his top 3.
Top 5 from the main ESPN list was:
1 Brady
2 Manning
3 Montana
4 Elway
5 Rodgers
I don't think I'd put Eli that high on the list.
:lol
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And it's not like he voted strictly on personal feelings across the board. He didn't even have Manning in his top 3.
Top 5 from the main ESPN list was:
1 Brady
2 Manning
3 Montana
4 Elway
5 Rodgers
I don't think I'd put Eli that high on the list.
Well played. :)
I have Aikman on there, and Rodgers wishing he had another Super Bowl ring and a better coach. I might even have Favre on there too (though I have to think about that a bit).
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Rogers is really the only one I'm not sure about. even the order works for me. Maybe Steve Young gets that slot. Maybe Favre.
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I'm just naturally suspicious of lists that seem to be heavily biased in favor of current (or very recent) players, like that one is. I mean, yeah, there's an argument to be made that training and just raw athleticism have evolved to the point where our athletes of today clearly ARE superior to athlete's 30 years ago. But still, it just smacks a bit of short term memory bias.
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So, not sure how many outside this market followed, but Michael Vick made a comment the other day about Kaepernick saying that if Kaep really wants to get signed with a team, the first thing he should do is get a hair cut. I heard it, and in context, I don't think there was anything offensive about it or that it was meant in a mean-spirited way, even if it might have been a bit boneheaded and/or out of touch. Apparently, he has since apologized and taken it back: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mike-vick-says-hes-sorry-telling-colin-kaepernick-cut-hair-175554398.html Specifically, he said:
At the end of the day, what I said, I should have never said. I think it was taken out of context in regards to what I was trying to convey, but I only want to help Kaepernick. I’m not a general manager, I’m not the guy who makes the decisions on getting him signed, and I’m truly sorry for what I said. I think I should have used a better choice of words.
Obviously his Afro has nothing to do with him being signed and I wasn’t trying to relay that message. It was more so about helping him at the end of the day. In all my interviews all I have ever tried to do is help him and talk positive.
I'm curious what people think of this. I'm not saying I'm right, but here's my two cents on the subject:
First off, again, I don't really see too much of a problem with the original comments. In context, I think what he was trying to say, although perhaps a bit inartfully, is that Kaep has earned himself a reputation of being controversial and being anti-establishment to the point where that is offputting to many, including those in a position to hire and/or manage him as a player on their teams. Couple that with his declining skill, and that will naturally be an obstacle to getting him signed. But if he took steps to remove/repair that controversial image, that could only help him out.
Personally, I don't have a problem with that philosophy at all. Yeah, you can be a rebel or be outspoken about the cause of your choice, and that's all great. But I also think that part of being a grown up is recognizing that, no matter how noble your cause might be, there are real-world consequences for voicing your views, and if you want something for yourself that will be nearly impossible to get because your actions or appearance or speech will be offensive to those in a position to give you what you want, you need to recognize that and made a decision about which is more important rather than being offended that you can't have it both ways. I liken it to when I was in law school, and in second and third year when people were applying for jobs, those with lots of piercings and/or tons of visible tattoos and/or wildly colored/styled hair were whining about not being able to get jobs and people in law firms not accepting them for who they are. Yeah, I get it. Your personal appearance is important to your personal identity. Nothing wrong with that. But there's also nothing wrong with those who work in a conservative environment feeling that it is inappropriate for that environment. So quit whining about it, recognize the issue, and just make your choice.
Second, I'm kind of long tired about living in a society where people feel the need to make contrived apologies that sound like they were simply told by those in power that they had better say something that sounds like an apology "or else." He isn't really apologizing. And his apology misses the point anyway. He absolutely DID mean that the Afro was a potential obstacle to Kaep getting signed, although I think he was trying to make a bigger point. If he wants to apologize and say that, in retrospect, he was wrong, then okay, fine. But to recant and say that that isn't what he meant when clearly it was pretty much renders his "apology" a nullity. And that, in and of itself, makes this a bigger story than it should be as far as I'm concerned. And, again, the reason why is that, to me, the bigger story isn't what Kaep or Vick have said or done. It is now about the fake society we live in where people have to back pedal and recant just because of some unjustified (or, often, completely contrived) outrage.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. I am fully open and prepared to be convinced that I am offbase or flat out wrong. What say you, DTF?
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To me, it all comes down to business. If you want a particular job, and there is an expectation on you to perform a role and present yourself in a particular manner, you do it. Otherwise, someone else will get that job. Kaepernick has a lot riding against him. It's not so much his hair, although wearing a huge afro obviously makes him stand OUT from the crowd. As does his...decisions last year.
Not many franchise owners want to entrust their franchise's performance and most high profile position to a guy that purposefully makes sure he stands out in the crowd and makes "issues" for the league. A QB is the face of the franchise. How many of them are extremely controversial in the league? Look down the list...really, none of them, except maybe for Cam Newton, and Cam has been a bit more low key recently.
So, I get what Vick was saying (he would know). I don't think it was the wisest move given the huge media attention he should have known that statement would have made, but I get his overall point -- if you want to be a starting QB in the NFL, you need to get with the program and stop making yourself above the team. But frankly, I don't think Kaepernick is able to do that going forward. And as a result, the best he can really expect is to be a backup somewhere...maybe. Dude shot his career in the foot last year with his "protest" antics. Had he instead stood for the flag, and in his off time and in the off season, pursued his social and political convictions, things might have been different. Because as the QB, you represent not just yourself, but a franchise, a franchise owner, the fan base, and community. And Kaepernick thought he had enough clout to do that. he was wrong. And he should have known better.
So Vick's hair comment, to me, was just another way of telling Kaepernick to stop being such a distraction and sticking out. Blend in, and you'll get a job. Continue to purposefully stand out, you won't. And while we're all about individual freedom in the U.S., if you want a job, you're expected to act and look the part, otherwise someone else will get it -- a lesson Kaepernick is waist-deep in learning.
Edit -- and I don't think Vick should have had to apologize for what he said either. He was trying to impart some learned wisdom. his error was doing it publicly. He should have just called Kaepernick and told him straight out.
As for the upcoming 2017 season, all I can say is:
J-E-T-S SUCK SUCK SUCK. Sigh... :facepalm: :tdwn
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No argument from me. He's crafted an image, and for better or for worse the image is holding him back. And it's not the first time this has happened. Terrell Owens ran into problems because of appearances. Keyshawn Johnson. Johnny Manziel. And they all had greater skills. Sometimes your talent is enough to overcome the behavioral barriers (Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, occasionally TO), but most of the time it's not. Kap simply doesn't have the talent to make teams want to accept the baggage.
Truth be told, if he cut his hair and started practicing wearing God Bless America T-shirts I doubt it would be enough.
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Truth be told, if he cut his hair and started practicing wearing God Bless America T-shirts I doubt it would be enough.
Nope, he's done. And it's a shame too, because he was an electrifying player for a time.
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All I gotta say is Vick has a lot nerve talking about someone else's hair. :lol
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Truth be told, if he cut his hair and started practicing wearing God Bless America T-shirts I doubt it would be enough.
Nope, he's done. And it's a shame too, because he was an electrifying player for a time.
Yea, I'm not sure there's really anything he can do at this point besides hoping a QB gets injured and he gets a roster spot and somehow makes it into a game and makes a positive impact. Very uphill battle for him.
Also, I have no issue with what Vick said other than the fact that Vick making these statements is sort of irrelevant because he's the last person someone should take advice from. But the reality, your looks sometimes do play a role in getting a job. I kind of doubt that's the case here, but becoming more presentable wouldn't hurt his chances of getting a job.
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Samsara said what I was trying to say just about perfectly. I agree with every word of it.
And as far as Kaep being pretty much done no matter what, I agree. During the season they made their Super Bowl run, he truly was electrifying. And it wasn't just the run plays. If you look back and watch some of the throws he made during that season, his performance really was impressive. But that player has been sadly missing ever since, other than glimpses here and there. And exactly why his skill as a QB has been MIA since then is a mystery to me.
All I gotta say is Vick has a lot nerve talking about someone else's hair. :lol
Yeah, I get that. And that's a fair response. But I really do think he was trying to offer some learned advice rather than being a hypocrite.
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What Vick was trying to say was you have to change your perception to get that second chance. I think the hair cut was symbolic like Vick speaking out and showing up for animal cruelty events. You have to show remorse or even to those bastard owners that you can fit in and not make waves.
If Kap was playing like his first 3 years, he would have the leeway to speak out.
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In all fairness to all of the points being made, Dog Killer did exactly what Kap can do. He was done, too. Once an injury got him on the field he turned in a fantastic season. He went from washed up to MVP when nobody could have expected it. Of course he promptly reverted to washed up after the season, but it earned him a few more years. It's conceivable that Kap could do the same thing, though I'd certainly bet against it.
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I don't think we found that out until he came back. Maybe my memory was poor but was he in decline that much in Atlanta?
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I think that focusing on someone's haircut is rather foolish. Some very recent players in the league have sported some abnormal hair styles. Troy Polamalu, anyone?
However, if he were to focus on his image as far as how he's perceived then I can understand the sentiment even though I think that it's mis-placed. Personally, I have no issue with anything that he's done. He chose to protest peacefully, and he excersized a constitutional right in a non-violent manner. A lot of the times that I hear people bashing him for it it sounds like hypocrisy. There are felons and criminals on every roster in the NFL, but I hardly hear a single word about those players unless one of them decides to beat the shit out of their wife in an elevator.
Are we that sensitive as a society that we can't withstand a sports figure taking a knee during our anthem? I think that it reflects much more poorly on us as a nation than on him as a player.
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I think that focusing on someone's haircut is rather foolish. Some very recent players in the league have sported some abnormal hair styles. Troy Polamalu, anyone?
However, if he were to focus on his image as far as how he's perceived then I can understand the sentiment even though I think that it's mis-placed. Personally, I have no issue with anything that he's done. He chose to protest peacefully, and he excersized a constitutional right in a non-violent manner. A lot of the times that I hear people bashing him for it it sounds like hypocrisy. There are felons and criminals on every roster in the NFL, but I hardly hear a single word about those players unless one of them decides to beat the shit out of their wife in an elevator.
Are we that sensitive as a society that we can't withstand a sports figure taking a knee during our anthem? I think that it reflects much more poorly on us as a nation than on him as a player.
I disagree though, while domestic violence is significantly worse, taking a knee during the anthem is considered very offensive to many people. I think some people need to understand that it pisses people off regardless of whatever anyone else thinks. I don't think it should bar him from playing, I would say domestic violence should bar people from playing if anything, but to just outright ignore the fact kneeing offends some people is foolish. And yes, we are an extremely sensitive society apparently, and this is only just one example.
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I think that focusing on someone's haircut is rather foolish. Some very recent players in the league have sported some abnormal hair styles. Troy Polamalu, anyone?
However, if he were to focus on his image as far as how he's perceived then I can understand the sentiment even though I think that it's mis-placed. Personally, I have no issue with anything that he's done. He chose to protest peacefully, and he excersized a constitutional right in a non-violent manner. A lot of the times that I hear people bashing him for it it sounds like hypocrisy. There are felons and criminals on every roster in the NFL, but I hardly hear a single word about those players unless one of them decides to beat the shit out of their wife in an elevator.
Are we that sensitive as a society that we can't withstand a sports figure taking a knee during our anthem? I think that it reflects much more poorly on us as a nation than on him as a player.
I disagree though, while domestic violence is significantly worse, taking a knee during the anthem is considered very offensive to many people. I think some people need to understand that it pisses people off regardless of whatever anyone else thinks. I don't think it should bar him from playing, I would say domestic violence should bar people from playing if anything, but to just outright ignore the fact kneeing offends some people is foolish. And yes, we are an extremely sensitive society apparently, and this is only just one example.
And the offense they take is profoundly hypocritical. It's nothing more than being upset that somebody doesn't agree with you. If he mooned the flag or flipped off the singer the whole time then I could see being offended. That's openly disrespectful. I see what he's doing as passive. He chooses not to display the traditional honor.
In any case, he's simply not a good enough player to be able to make such statements.
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Maybe so, but people, especially people who served, don't see it as a difference of opinion, but respect for the country (right or wrong, which is very much debatable). I'd rather not get into that debate again, but your end point is right, his skill isn't good enough for teams to look past this. And sadly that's how the NFL operates, if you are good enough, they will put up with your disagreements.
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I saw Vick's comments live (or on DVR that evening) when he said what he said about Kaepernick and I didn't think it was a great point or offensive; I just thought it was kind of a bizarre point.
Rogers is really the only one I'm not sure about. even the order works for me. Maybe Steve Young gets that slot. Maybe Favre.
Young at his peak was as good as any QB ever, but he didn't have longevity.
To compare him to Rodgers, Young started 143 games, 19 of which were for TB.
Rodgers has started 135 games, so he is neck and neck with Young as far as longevity goes.
Favre (who tied for 6th on this list was Marino) had an incredible peak as well, but the back half of his career was far too turnover-heavy. Rodgers has thrown 71 INTs in 135 NFL starts. Favre threw 336 INTs in 298 starts.
I am fine with Rodgers being ahead of both Favre and Young.
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I have no problems with any names on that list, ranked pretty much however you like. It all really comes down to just figuring out which criteria you feel should be emphasized the most, which I find to be hard to argue with too much no matter where you come down on that.
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https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/07/in-wake-of-cte-study-ravens-smarty-john-urschel-retires-from-football-at-26/
In light of the most recent study, who's to blame him (and others) for doing the same?
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He's the 5th player that the Ravens have "lost" in 57 days. Can't fault him for his decision. Next man up!
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Love John Urschel. He's the type of person that makes me feel good to be a Penn Stater (I've been following loosely from his time in college). Guy is super bright and can see the bigger picture for himself. Good for him.
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I think that's a reasonable stance to take. People will continue to play football, but I think you might see some people retiring earlier out of respect to the odds. Urschel has made a little over 1.8 million in his 3 year career. That's a pretty nice way to start off the rest of your life at 26. A reasonable person can consider how many years they're willing to accept the risk vs how much money is enough for them to not worry about it anymore. A sixth year LB who's made ~10mil is the sort of guy that needs to consider if another 6 years is worth it.
Where things fall apart is with the people who no longer care about the money. Tom Brady would probably play for free right now, as he's seeking something more meaningful for him. I doubt concussion concerns factor into that. Personal value decision, I suppose.
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On the lighter side of sports news. In an unusual display of class the Cowboys cut Lucky Whitehead on Monday after reports surfaced that he was wanted for shoplifting and no-showing at his arraignment. The day after they cut him it comes out that it was a bit of mistaken identity. Dude hadn't done anything wrong at all. "Well, we wanted to cut him anyway." :lol
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On the lighter side of sports news. In an unusual display of class the Cowboys cut Lucky Whitehead on Monday after reports surfaced that he was wanted for shoplifting and no-showing at his arraignment. The day after they cut him it comes out that it was a bit of mistaken identity. Dude hadn't done anything wrong at all. "Well, we wanted to cut him anyway." :lol
I seen that the other day. I wonder if he would have any recourse?
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Jerry Jones is a clown.
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Jerry Jones is a clown.
You just figured that out? :lol
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On an even more lighter side,
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/27/16050256/nfl-nipple-ring-david-irving-training-camp-cowboys
Nobody, but nobody, ever grabs you there in a game or practice. :facepalm:
Question: did his teammate get called for holding, or a personal foul?
(as to the Ravens.....what looked like a semi-reasonable chance of getting to ten wins this season fades week by week)
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I think that focusing on someone's haircut is rather foolish. Some very recent players in the league have sported some abnormal hair styles. Troy Polamalu, anyone?
However, if he were to focus on his image as far as how he's perceived then I can understand the sentiment even though I think that it's mis-placed. Personally, I have no issue with anything that he's done. He chose to protest peacefully, and he excersized a constitutional right in a non-violent manner. A lot of the times that I hear people bashing him for it it sounds like hypocrisy. There are felons and criminals on every roster in the NFL, but I hardly hear a single word about those players unless one of them decides to beat the shit out of their wife in an elevator.
Are we that sensitive as a society that we can't withstand a sports figure taking a knee during our anthem? I think that it reflects much more poorly on us as a nation than on him as a player.
I'm with Bosk on this 100%, but I have to note: I think this is part of the problem with the internet (I say figuratively). Mike Vick is certainly no brain surgeon, but he's no dummy, either, and I don't at all think he meant - literally - "the haircut". And that's part of the problem here. I don't at all like the contrived apologies - they are a check box on the PR "Image Restoration Checklist"TM and are about as sincere as Peter Criss's "I love you!"'s after Beth on tour. But we - the consumer - have put these people in that position. If the "internet" (I guess it's a thing now, according to Yahoo! "News", since they repreatedly refer to the "Internet" as if it is a living, sentient being) would take a collective breath and actually think about ALL the permutations of how Vick said that before they jump down his throat and try for their 75 seconds of fame, we wouldn't have this problem. I'm not saying the "Internet" is wrong or that Michael Vick is right, but it seems like in cases like this we don't even bother to consider whether they MIGHT be.
There are a handful of things that I would entrust Michael Vick to know more than me about - torturing dogs, weed, outrunning a defensive end that is almost as fast and twice my size, waking up on Monday not being able to feel my toes - and public image is one of them.
Almost as much as I hate the "faux apology", I hate this Twitter-fed idea that our public figures are one-dimensional caricatures, and are either saints, right about all things (Bruce Springsteen; John Mellencamp) or devils, who are evil incarnate in all ways (Trump, Vick, Gene Simmons). It's just not accurate, and we all suffer for the simplification.
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I think that focusing on someone's haircut is rather foolish. Some very recent players in the league have sported some abnormal hair styles. Troy Polamalu, anyone?
However, if he were to focus on his image as far as how he's perceived then I can understand the sentiment even though I think that it's mis-placed. Personally, I have no issue with anything that he's done. He chose to protest peacefully, and he excersized a constitutional right in a non-violent manner. A lot of the times that I hear people bashing him for it it sounds like hypocrisy. There are felons and criminals on every roster in the NFL, but I hardly hear a single word about those players unless one of them decides to beat the shit out of their wife in an elevator.
Are we that sensitive as a society that we can't withstand a sports figure taking a knee during our anthem? I think that it reflects much more poorly on us as a nation than on him as a player.
I'm with Bosk on this 100%, but I have to note: I think this is part of the problem with the internet (I say figuratively). Mike Vick is certainly no brain surgeon, but he's no dummy, either, and I don't at all think he meant - literally - "the haircut". And that's part of the problem here. I don't at all like the contrived apologies - they are a check box on the PR "Image Restoration Checklist"TM and are about as sincere as Peter Criss's "I love you!"'s after Beth on tour. But we - the consumer - have put these people in that position. If the "internet" (I guess it's a thing now, according to Yahoo! "News", since they repreatedly refer to the "Internet" as if it is a living, sentient being) would take a collective breath and actually think about ALL the permutations of how Vick said that before they jump down his throat and try for their 75 seconds of fame, we wouldn't have this problem. I'm not saying the "Internet" is wrong or that Michael Vick is right, but it seems like in cases like this we don't even bother to consider whether they MIGHT be.
There are a handful of things that I would entrust Michael Vick to know more than me about - torturing dogs, weed, outrunning a defensive end that is almost as fast and twice my size, waking up on Monday not being able to feel my toes - and public image is one of them.
Almost as much as I hate the "faux apology", I hate this Twitter-fed idea that our public figures are one-dimensional caricatures, and are either saints, right about all things (Bruce Springsteen; John Mellencamp) or devils, who are evil incarnate in all ways (Trump, Vick, Gene Simmons). It's just not accurate, and we all suffer for the simplification.
I think that I touched on that when I mentioned the perception of his image. Mike certainly had to rebuild himself in full view of the public, and you'll get no argument from me that his knowledge about that subject is miles beyond mine. In fact, I'm in favor of someone in his position being able to rebuild their life, and I would have said that even prior to him playing for my favorite team. God knows that if any of you would ever see my criminal record that there's a couple of blemishes on it that don't exactly cast me in a favorable light, either. There's nothing on there that is at the level of the crime(s) that he was convicted of, but I have to believe in the ability of someone to rehabilitate themselves, or I would be able to have zero faith in myself.
However, I would maintain that Colin Kaepernick's actions have been overblown by some in our society. I'm not saying that applies to either of you gents. In fact, I welcome the fact that we can disagree with each other peacefully on the subject, and exchange our ideas on it in a civil manner. Our ability to do that is one of the things that are at the heart of this subject. That, unfortunately, isn't always the case with this subject in general with the public overall.
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However, I would maintain that Colin Kaepernick's actions have been overblown by some in our society.
Well, sure. I think, arguably, his problem is not one of repairing himself as much as repairing his image. And I think that is what Vick was mostly getting at. Regardless whether any of us, and "us" includes Michael Vick for purposes of this discussion, subjectively feel Kaep has personal flaws that need to be repaired, I think it's important to distinguish that what I think Vick was getting at is: In order to repair his image, and thus make himself marketable to a team, he needs to do X.
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People really care, and discuss, what the dog killer etc. thinks?
Next thing you know, Pete Rose and ARoid will be giving their opinions about baseball on Fox........
(green text for the line above)
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Fuck showed remorse and went through the steps and that was the real message he was trying to get across.
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Fuck showed remorse and went through the steps and that was the real message he was trying to get across.
???
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Fuck showed remorse and went through the steps and that was the real message he was trying to get across.
???
What version of Autocorrect is that? How can I get it?
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:lol
I swear it was auto correct! :lol
Vick! Vick!
I've got to look before I hit send. lolo
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I've called someone a Fuck before as an insult. I just thought it was your pet name for him :lol
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:lol
Nope. What he did was atrocious, but he did show remorse, went to jail, came out and did community service for animal shelters ect... and that's all you can ask for to give someone a second chance.
How he communicated that about Kap was poorly executed but I get what he meant.
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^
(Not shouting, just commenting)
Ron Mexico did indeed do all that was asked of him after he was caught. He served his time, he did this, he did that, etc., etc., and good for him.
But, from HS on he was a <expletive deleted>. On a personal note, I care <zero about what he says or does.
Ray Rice was blacklisted from the league, Kaepernick seems to be in the same mold. But they let Mr. Mexico back into the league.
As to what you called me an auto correct illogical sorry but Siri cannot understand 'whestahwant' ;)
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:lol
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Ray Rice was blacklisted from the league, Kaepernick seems to be in the same mold. But they let Mr. Mexico back into the league.
I was on board with your post until this sentence. I completely fail to see how anyone can equate Ray Rice's actions with CK's actions. That's not to say that people shouldn't find CK's actions objectionable. I can understand why they do even if I disagree with their reasoning. However, one of them committed a violent crime while the other one peacefully protested. I don't understand how they can "be in the same mold".
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Ray Rice was blacklisted from the league, Kaepernick seems to be in the same mold. But they let Mr. Mexico back into the league.
I was on board with your post until this sentence. I completely fail to see how anyone can equate Ray Rice's actions with CK's actions. That's not to say that people shouldn't find CK's actions objectionable. I can understand why they do even if I disagree with their reasoning. However, one of them committed a violent crime while the other one peacefully protested. I don't understand how they can "be in the same mold".
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Ray Rice was blacklisted from the league, Kaepernick seems to be in the same mold. But they let Mr. Mexico back into the league.
I was on board with your post until this sentence. I completely fail to see how anyone can equate Ray Rice's actions with CK's actions. That's not to say that people shouldn't find CK's actions objectionable. I can understand why they do even if I disagree with their reasoning. However, one of them committed a violent crime while the other one peacefully protested. I don't understand how they can "be in the same mold".
They are in the same mold in the sense that they had too much baggage to be worth rostering. Yes, the baggage was very different, but baggage is baggage, and if you have too much of it, you had better be so good that it doesn't matter. Ray Rice wasn't. Neither is Kaepernick.
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Don't forget dwindling play. That makes the baggage worse.
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A point to consider: it isn't Kaep's action (kneeling during the anthem) that infuriated many people. Rather, it was who he is/what he looked like and the reason he gave for his action.
I think that if the golden boy Tom Brady (or some other similar fine upstanding example of All-American-ness, like Aaron Rodgers or whomever) performed the same ACTION (kneeling during the anthem) and gave a different REASON for it (say, protesting the poor treatment some veterans receive from the VA), the outcry would have been much less.
Be that as it may, one thing I found really tiresome during the whole thing was the assumption that his actions were disrespectful to "the troops", as if the flag and the anthem only represented the military and soldiers, and no other facet of American life.
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If he was playing at the level early in his career he wouldn't receive the flack he did.
No doubt.
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It seems like most people still bitching about Kaepernick not having a job in the NFL have a political agenda, which is clouding their view.
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I wonder if he still asking for start on money?
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Nobody knows, because he never says. But he sure spoke up awfully quick when Vick made the hair comment last week. I am not sure Kaepernick even wants to play football anymore, but it's clear that he wants to be a martyr.
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It seems like most people still bitching about Kaepernick not having a job in the NFL have a political agenda, which is clouding their view.
Hard to not see a political agenda when the Ravens signed Dave Olson, late of the Kansas City Phantoms of the Champions Indoor Football League, rather than sign Kaep.
Just sayin'. You can't complain about people seeing politics when politics is there to be seen.
Kaep definitely isn't elite. But there are just as definitely a lot of shitty QBs getting signed in the league.
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It seems like most people still bitching about Kaepernick not having a job in the NFL have a political agenda, which is clouding their view.
Hard to not see a political agenda when the Ravens signed Dave Olson, late of the Kansas City Phantoms of the Champions Indoor Football League, rather than sign Kaep.
Just sayin'. You can't complain about people seeing politics when politics is there to be seen.
Kaep definitely isn't elite. But there are just as definitely a lot of shitty QBs getting signed in the league.
The Ravens' plan was to only carry Joe Flacco, Ryan Mallett and maybe Dustin Vaughn into the regular season roster. Olson was signed because they needed a warm body for training camp so that Mallett and Vaughn weren't having to throw everything.
If either Flacco or Mallett went down LONG TERM, then yes, the Ravens would be wise to sign Kaepernick from a football stand point, but them signing Olson over Kaepernick for training camp mop up duty should not be construed as a slight to Kaepernick.
We still don't know what Kaepernick is asking for in terms of salary, but we do know that the Ravens are cash-strapped. If he came out and said that he's willing to play for the veteran's minimum for a year to get on a roster and prove himself, things might be different.
The political/sensational side of this should not be understated. Sure the Ravens, (and other teams) have guys who have said or done things far worse than Kaepernick "did" (Google Suggs Bleach). But Kaepernick pissed off a lot of people, with his peaceful protest, his wearing cop pig socks in public, and wearing a Castro t-shirt. A lot of owners look at that and say, thanks but no thanks. If Brady or Rodgers did something so outlandish, maybe things would be different given their skillset, but then again, Brady and Rodgers don't ever seem to put themselves in that sort of situation.
As a Baltimore Ravens football fan and a human being, I would like to enter 2017 with Flacco and Kaepernick on the team. I was initially outraged by his peaceful protest, but as I thought on it, and talked with others, what he did was fine, and certainly within his rights as an American citizen.
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Do any of these shitty QBs come with the baggage that Kaepernick does?
I'll hang up and listen. ;)
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They come with the baggage of not being any good.
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:lol
I think if Kaep did these things off the field, that would be fine, but no owner, or team, wants that kind of thing on their dime. Not while in Uniform. He represents the team on the field. What he does off the field is represent himself.
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Great post, DOC.
You reap what you sow, and Kaepernick has no one to blame but himself if he ends up not getting a job again in the NFL.
Besides, he would be a TERRIBLE fit for the Ravens offense. Like Mark Schlereth (a great, hard-nosed analyst who pulls no punches and never has any agenda) said recently, if you sign Kaepernick as your backup, you have to then have your first team practicing a completely different offense to run in case the starter gets hurt and Kaep has to play. You can't just plug him into your existing offense.
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Thanks, and great point. Of all of the ways to look at this situation, I overlooked one's fit into the offensive system.... kind of important!
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A little bit, yeah. :lol ;)
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Like I've said before. Owners are willing to deal with outspoken players if the skills are top notch. I don't think he's put the best effort because of the demise of SF. That owner destroyed the franchise and Kap suffered for it but he let his focus get away from football and now no owner is willing to take a chance.
Should he get a chance? Yes but I think he did some damage to his career.
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My gut tells me that Kaepernick ends up on the Ravens in the next few days.
When you look at Flacco's play since 2012 (he has been shitty), improving the QB position should be a priority.
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It is a good fit. He can back up but my have the opportunity to start if Flacco's injury is serious.
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It is a good fit.
But is it really? Do they play anything close to the style of offense that he needs to have a chance at being successful? That, IMO, is the biggest impediment to him getting signed, even apart from the baggage. S.F.'s system under Harbaugh was designed to play to his strengths, and while he was able to hold it together, he thrived in that system. But outside of a system like that, he seems to really struggle.
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The Ravens have always been flexible in tgeir offens. They could work with him. Part of his decline was that e wasn't put in a good position when Harbaugh left.
His brother is as good a coach.
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It is a good fit.
But is it really? Do they play anything close to the style of offense that he needs to have a chance at being successful? That, IMO, is the biggest impediment to him getting signed, even apart from the baggage. S.F.'s system under Harbaugh was designed to play to his strengths, and while he was able to hold it together, he thrived in that system. But outside of a system like that, he seems to really struggle.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm not sure how critical that is. When someone first brought it up I immediately thought of Jacoby Brisset. He's a lot closer to Kaep than he is Brady. Garoppolo seems to be a midpoint between them. NE is not going to run the same sort of offense if Brisset has to play. And there are other examples of this, as well. The Patriots started a game last year with Edleman as their backup QB. They've started games without the requisite number of O-linemen. Your gameplan reflects the tools at your disposal. I realize that Harbaugh is no Belichick, but he might well top the list of non-Belichick/Carroll coaches. He's perfectly capable of fielding a team that can improvise and change styles as the situation dictates.
edit: Expansion of King's ninja post.
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Okay. But even if you are right (and I'm not necessarily saying you are--I still think CK's skill set is too limited for him to fit into an offense that is not specifically crafted to cater to that skill set), that still doesn't equate to "he is a good fit." It more equates to, "he can be made to fit if the situation is dire enough that it necessitates him playing."
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Okay. But even if you are right (and I'm not necessarily saying you are--I still think CK's skill set is too limited for him to fit into an offense that is not specifically crafted to cater to that skill set), that still doesn't equate to "he is a good fit." It more equates to, "he can be made to fit if the situation is dire enough that it necessitates him playing."
You certainly might be right there. I'm not sure. Most teams don't value player flexibility the way NE does. That said, I've always thought having a different style backup is an asset. Nobody would want Kaep to have to finish the last 7 games of the season. Coming in in the second quarter, however, might be a good role, though. Think Vick coming in for the injured Kolb. Remember that the defense as to adjust and adapt just like the offense.
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It is a good fit.
But is it really? Do they play anything close to the style of offense that he needs to have a chance at being successful? That, IMO, is the biggest impediment to him getting signed, even apart from the baggage. S.F.'s system under Harbaugh was designed to play to his strengths, and while he was able to hold it together, he thrived in that system. But outside of a system like that, he seems to really struggle.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm not sure how critical that is. When someone first brought it up I immediately thought of Jacoby Brisset. He's a lot closer to Kaep than he is Brady. Garoppolo seems to be a midpoint between them. NE is not going to run the same sort of offense if Brisset has to play. And there are other examples of this, as well. The Patriots started a game last year with Edleman as their backup QB. They've started games without the requisite number of O-linemen. Your gameplan reflects the tools at your disposal. I realize that Harbaugh is no Belichick, but he might well top the list of non-Belichick/Carroll coaches. He's perfectly capable of fielding a team that can improvise and change styles as the situation dictates.
edit: Expansion of King's ninja post.
No argument with any of that, but I'm still of the opinion that until it happens (and we may be close, I'll give you that) that style of QB is awesome the first time through the league, and not so awesome second through infinity. Cam Newton was stopped when he needed to be, Kaepernick was stopped when he needed to be, Wilson (who can play "Brady" better than either Newton or Kaepernick combined) was stopped when he needed to be... Brady was not. You look at that list of QBs, and while you can quibble with individual rankings, there are a TON of QBs in the mold of Johnny U, there are, essentially, none in the mold of Randall Cunningham.
I think there is some incentive; I can see Jim calling John and raving about the kid, but I think, generally, if they do that, it's not a good move. I think we're seeing the real Kaepernick over the past couple seasons, and not in that one glorious, "oh-so-close" season.
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Yup. In this day and age the defense are so big and so fast that running QB's can get hurt easily. That's why Brady is so healthy, recognition and getting the ball out of his hands quickly.
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A lot of people seem to think that if the Ravens sign Kaepernick, they hate America and should be boycotted.
A lot of people seem to think that if the Ravens don't sign Kaepernick, they hate him for protesting peacfully.
Ravens owner feels like he cannot win either way.
People have been very vocal on both sides of the fence, while most of us "sane" folks aren't on one of the extreme sides of the fence.
Owner is a self-made billionaire and is checking on a lot of different things before deciding one way or the other, as any smart business man shoul.d
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J-E-T-S SUCK SUCK SUCK
:tdwn :-[
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DOC, completely agree. I also think that the past history with some players is making the owner hesitate as well. Miami now seems like they need Kap more.
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I'm curious how that Castro shirt would go over in Miami.
Dolphins seem to think Tannehill will be okay, so that's great.
And apparently Kaepernick's GF tweeted a pic of Ravend owner and Ray Lewis, comparing them to DiCaprio and Jackson's characters in Django. Not a good look.
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Damn she is the one that's brainwashed him to be this political. It's ruining his career. His message could be better but it's very harsh. That's what got Schilling fired from ESPN (Not that there is another story about ESPN's leanings) but you've got to have a different message than the way Kap and his girlfriend are doing.
Unless of course he wants that more than his football career though it seems he's still trying to play.
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Damn she is the one that's brainwashed him to be this political. It's ruining his career.
Yep. Normally, I'm skeptical of the whole "girlfriend/wife made him do this" thing, but in this situation, if you do a little digging, you'll connect the dots. She's...a piece of work. I'll leave it at that.
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Meh...
Whether you agree with his views, or not. He's a grown man with a college education. He's fully aware of, and completely responsible for his words and actions. The only thing that a significant other can do is reinforce a belief/view that you already have before hand.
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I'm just ready for some football. Couldn't care less about all the shenanigans going on. Bring on the HOF game. :hat
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Meh...
Whether you agree with his views, or not. He's a grown man with a college education. He's fully aware of, and completely responsible for his words and actions. The only thing that a significant other can do is reinforce a belief/view that you already have before hand.
The one knee down didn't bother me much. Everything else did. It's how you go about it and I just believe she brought a side he needed to hide to have a career. We all do that moving up the corporate ladder.
I'm just ready for some football. Couldn't care less about all the shenanigans going on. Bring on the HOF game. :hat
Hell yeah!! :metal
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Meh...
Whether you agree with his views, or not. He's a grown man with a college education. He's fully aware of, and completely responsible for his words and actions. The only thing that a significant other can do is reinforce a belief/view that you already have before hand.
The one knee down didn't bother me much. Everything else did. It's how you go about it and I just believe she brought a side he needed to hide to have a career. We all do that moving up the corporate ladder.
Yeah, no argument from me on that point. I know that there's a lot of things that I have to lie through my teeth about when it comes to corporate bullshit when I'm job hunting.
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His girlfriend got it all wrong. Ray's not a house negro. Cleary he's fixing to stab Bisciotti.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGQ5wyEVoAA7jwo.jpg)
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:lol
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Least he wasn't wearing the white suit that time.
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Sounds like Tannehill should have gotten that surgery last Decmber.
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A lot of people seem to think that if the Ravens sign Kaepernick, they hate America and should be boycotted.
A lot of people seem to think that if the Ravens don't sign Kaepernick, they hate him for protesting peacfully.
Ravens owner feels like he cannot win either way.
People have been very vocal on both sides of the fence, while most of us "sane" folks aren't on one of the extreme sides of the fence.
Owner is a self-made billionaire and is checking on a lot of different things before deciding one way or the other, as any smart business man shoul.d
While he should be applauded for being transparent, Bisciotti has not handled this well. By saying that all of sudden what the fans want matters, he has opened Pandora's Box. Granted, the liberal media, which includes much of the sports media, loses their minds over anything that doesn't fall in line with their agenda, but it just wasn't a wise thing for Bisciotti to say. The Ravens will now be the "bad guy" if they do not sign Kaepernick, and Bisciotti all of a sudden caring what the fans think will be the reason why.
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I could the rest of my life and be 100% satisfied if I don't have to hear about Kaepernick again. He's the new Tebow. Someone hire him so he can show once again how shitty he is and then we can move on. T
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JJ buys Cowboys in 1989 for $150M. Franchise currently worth $4.2B. Now in the HOF. They'll be talking about that guy 1000 years from now.
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Completely that he gets in before Modell....but it is what it is....
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Although, he hasn't figured out how to win a SB in the last 21 years, he just might be able to get one more as a cherry on top before he croaks.
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Although, he hasn't figured out how to win a SB in the last 21 years, he just might be able to get one more as a cherry on top before he croaks.
I doubt it. He's finally managed to build a pretty good team but he still lacks the coach. Moreover, one of the key components is as yet unreliable. Zeek will likely miss some time due to suspension, and he doesn't seem to have the character to understand the problem. Michael liked to party, but he was discrete about it. You can work with that. This guy needs to be the center of attention. That will always be a problem, particularly now that the NFL likes to appear tough on discipline. About the only good thing going for them right now is that Jerry essentially runs the league, so it shouldn't be too bad.
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A lot of people seem to think that if the Ravens sign Kaepernick, they hate America and should be boycotted.
A lot of people seem to think that if the Ravens don't sign Kaepernick, they hate him for protesting peacfully.
Ravens owner feels like he cannot win either way.
People have been very vocal on both sides of the fence, while most of us "sane" folks aren't on one of the extreme sides of the fence.
Owner is a self-made billionaire and is checking on a lot of different things before deciding one way or the other, as any smart business man shoul.d
While he should be applauded for being transparent, Bisciotti has not handled this well. By saying that all of sudden what the fans want matters, he has opened Pandora's Box. Granted, the liberal media, which includes much of the sports media, loses their minds over anything that doesn't fall in line with their agenda, but it just wasn't a wise thing for Bisciotti to say. The Ravens will now be the "bad guy" if they do not sign Kaepernick, and Bisciotti all of a sudden caring what the fans think will be the reason why.
The fans are his consumers. He is wise to consider their wants...but yeah, probably not the best way to say it.
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It's a dangerous precedent to set.
As for the Hall of Fame, I find it disgusting that the media is dedicating almost all talk of it this week to Jerry Jones.
One of the greatest RBs ever (Tomlinson) is entering the Hall.
The greatest postseaosn RB ever (Terrell Davis) is entering the Hall.
A QB who lifted up two pitiful franchises, getting them both to Super Bowls, and who has one of the best STORIES ever (Kurt Warner) is entering the Hall.
But yeah, let's talk about the redneck owner who has no values and is all about the almighty dollar instead of the football legends who deserve it. :tdwn :tdwn
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Thankfully, I've stayed away from reading the JJ stories.
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Fuck Tomlinson too.
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LOL, Tomlinson was a classy player through and through, so it's no surprise that Patriots fans still hate him. :biggrin: :lol
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He was a baby.
If you have no idea what the score is....if he has his helmet off, he's winning. If it's on, he's losing.
Pussy.
(Not you Kev ;D)
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Yeah, Tomlinson didn't make a habit of saying anything too atrocious to the media, but he always came off as pretty whiny to me. Unquestionably one of the best players I've watched, though.
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Jones aside (whose speech I did not watch), the speeches were all great last night.
Taylor looked like the cat that swallowed canary and you could tell how much it meant to him just by looking at him.
Anderson brought some humor to the night.
Terrell Davis (my 2nd all-time favorite player) did a great job at telling his story; his induction was long overdue. His kids hamming it up for the camera was awesome.
Tomlinson might have been the best. Such a class individual.
Warner's nod to Trent Green was one of the best moments of the night. His wife's haircut was not. :lol :lol
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I didn't watch any of it, but congrats to those who actually deserved it. LOL JJ :lol
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I'm kind of torn on the JJ thing. At first I was pretty pissed off about it. At the same time, under his leadership the league really has prospered. He didn't just turn the Cowboys into a 4 billion dollar team. He helped to change the league so that everybody prospers. The lowly Bills are worth a last place 1.5 billion dollars now. He obviously doesn't get credit for all of this, but he came in looking to change things up and certainly did.
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Vince Willfork retires. Very dominant player at his position. Great career.
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I'm kind of torn on the JJ thing. At first I was pretty pissed off about it. At the same time, under his leadership the league really has prospered. He didn't just turn the Cowboys into a 4 billion dollar team. He helped to change the league so that everybody prospers. The lowly Bills are worth a last place 1.5 billion dollars now. He obviously doesn't get credit for all of this, but he came in looking to change things up and certainly did.
What did JJ do for his team that any other owner couldn't do? Maybe supply his team with the most blow?
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I'm kind of torn on the JJ thing. At first I was pretty pissed off about it. At the same time, under his leadership the league really has prospered. He didn't just turn the Cowboys into a 4 billion dollar team. He helped to change the league so that everybody prospers. The lowly Bills are worth a last place 1.5 billion dollars now. He obviously doesn't get credit for all of this, but he came in looking to change things up and certainly did.
What did JJ do for his team that any other owner couldn't do? Maybe supply his team with the most blow?
Nothing. The point is the way he did things that others would not. He brought a level of aggressiveness to NFL ownership that was very different than what existed before. Personally, I think he's an asshole, but I won't deny that he changed the way the league operates.
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Yeah, I'm with Barto on this one. Owners are by and large such pampered lazy fucks that "could"/"couldn't" is seldom what makes the difference in how their performance should be judged and "would"/"wouldn't" is. The majority of owners treat their teams solely as a business asset and merely posture to whatever extent is necessary to keep the majority of the fan base from jumping ship.
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I always felt that. I do feel differently about Kraft. He's done great things for us N.E. fans (New stadium mostly on his dime, no PSL's, keeping the team in N.E.)
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Cutler will lead the Dolphins to the Super Bowl now, right? :P :lol
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He can certainly get them back to the playoffs. Miami is certainly as good or better than just about all of the teams that should be in the wild card mix.
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/450x650q90/922/D4MpvJ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmD4MpvJj)
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Another fitting caption would be "Whaddaya mean I gotta play football?"
Dude has some of the most negative body language of any quarterback I've ever seen and that cig only furthers it all.
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Vince Willfork retires. Very dominant player at his position. Great career.
Didn't want this to go unnoticed Powerslave! But I'm biased as I have the guy's jersey. Underrated due to his position too, even if he was more of a 4-3 DT at the end due to a decline. His retirement was interesting, I heard it called the first sponsored retirement!
Yeah, I'm with Barto on this one. Owners are by and large such pampered lazy fucks that "could"/"couldn't" is seldom what makes the difference in how their performance should be judged and "would"/"wouldn't" is. The majority of owners treat their teams solely as a business asset and merely posture to whatever extent is necessary to keep the majority of the fan base from jumping ship.
I always felt that. I do feel differently about Kraft. He's done great things for us N.E. fans (New stadium mostly on his dime, no PSL's, keeping the team in N.E.)
I'm with you Kings. As much as I have a certain political leaning, I am mostly against public money for professional stadiums. Kraft from what I remember financed Gillette all privately? The tax-payers should have put in an interstate bypass at least though. My gosh that traffic- I think it was easier for me to leave downtown Cincy after a game!
Going further on a tangent about owners, my running theory is that the owner often has a huge impact on how the team does. Financially of course, but winning wise. Being a spoiled NE fan, I have watched the thing turn under Kraft. He made mistakes- Parcells and Carroll and the people around them. Parcells is a putz though, so he would have left a team that won every year probably. But Kraft admittedly wanted to be a part of the transactions, and was too involved/controlling at first. But he got better, while finding the right person he can fully trust (Belichick). PIT has been successfully run since being founded basically, and I would extend further to NYG. And both teams have stable owners and administrations IMO. I would go with Denver as well.
Meanwhile, my hometown team has sucked since I started caring (Detroit). One playoff win in the SB era, one. All sorts of stupid draft picks, stupid contracts. And old man Clay Ford was heavily rumored to meddle in many drafts when he was alive. Dan Snyder is on par, if not lower or higher. WAS has done nothing but sucked pretty much, make bad drafts/signings, and be at the forefront of nickel-and-diming people. Throw in CLE and CIN. Cincy, there is an owner who in Mike Brown just barely beats out the Fords in my book, if only for the two SB appearances. Take those away and geez.
And I'll finish on Jerry Jones. Since he forced Jimmy Johnson out because he wanted full meddle powers, what has that team done since the big three retired/left? I didn't average in last year yet, but they literally averaged about 8-8 since 1996 I believe. But hey, America's team! Worth big money! Too bad the team goes no where, and I don't think it will with that man at the helm.
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The state did help with the infrastructure. Look at the mall, restaurants and hotels Kraft built there now. It used to be a wasteland there. Now it's a thriving place to go to.
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The state did help with the infrastructure. Look at the mall, restaurants and hotels Kraft built there now. It used to be a wasteland there. Now it's a thriving place to go to.
Relatively speaking, though, it's still a wasteland. Some of the "attractions" were already there (Great Woods). I wouldn't want anyone to leave with the impression that it is a City unto itself now.
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Going further on a tangent about owners, my running theory is that the owner often has a huge impact on how the team does. Financially of course, but winning wise. Being a spoiled NE fan, I have watched the thing turn under Kraft. He made mistakes- Parcells and Carroll and the people around them. Parcells is a putz though, so he would have left a team that won every year probably. But Kraft admittedly wanted to be a part of the transactions, and was too involved/controlling at first. But he got better, while finding the right person he can fully trust (Belichick). PIT has been successfully run since being founded basically, and I would extend further to NYG. And both teams have stable owners and administrations IMO. I would go with Denver as well.
Meanwhile, my hometown team has sucked since I started caring (Detroit). One playoff win in the SB era, one. All sorts of stupid draft picks, stupid contracts. And old man Clay Ford was heavily rumored to meddle in many drafts when he was alive. Dan Snyder is on par, if not lower or higher. WAS has done nothing but sucked pretty much, make bad drafts/signings, and be at the forefront of nickel-and-diming people. Throw in CLE and CIN. Cincy, there is an owner who in Mike Brown just barely beats out the Fords in my book, if only for the two SB appearances. Take those away and geez.
And I'll finish on Jerry Jones. Since he forced Jimmy Johnson out because he wanted full meddle powers, what has that team done since the big three retired/left? I didn't average in last year yet, but they literally averaged about 8-8 since 1996 I believe. But hey, America's team! Worth big money! Too bad the team goes no where, and I don't think it will with that man at the helm.
I think owners DO impart a culture and a "vibe" for lack of a better word on their franchises; say what you want about them (or their methods) but Steinbrenner is a fantastic example. He inherited (for what he paid, to CBS, it was akin to an inheritance) the Yankees, and restored the culture to the way it was in the 50's: baseball first, winning first, and everything else - even some would say, classiness and sportsmanship - a distant second. I grew up a Yankee fan, and while I don't always condone their methods (I grew to love the Red Sox in the late 90's because of the way they played and the players they invited to their squad; plus they play in the best park in the league) it's undeniable that it is the franchise that players go to when they want to win.
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The state did help with the infrastructure. Look at the mall, restaurants and hotels Kraft built there now. It used to be a wasteland there. Now it's a thriving place to go to.
Relatively speaking, though, it's still a wasteland. Some of the "attractions" were already there (Great Woods). I wouldn't want anyone to leave with the impression that it is a City unto itself now.
i was just talking about Rt 1 where the stadium was but year. That area is rural.
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x400q90/923/kisktM.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pnkisktMj)
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The only weird thing to me about this are the trophies painted on. I know Belichick's boat is 7 rings, but that isn't landing in enemy territory 8+ times a year. Also kind of goes against his "we are on this year, we're not worrying about what happened in the past." Just my thoughts though, when I heard about it.
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Very true. I would say it's a Kraft thing. Not a Belichick thing.
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Ready for Saturday's game against the Cowpokes! Had a blast at the Joint Rams/Bolts practice yesterday. Some shots I took.....
(https://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/sideways777777/test-2164_zpstrj1q3i8.jpg) (https://s302.photobucket.com/user/sideways777777/media/test-2164_zpstrj1q3i8.jpg.html)
(https://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/sideways777777/test-2157_zpscvrgusdr.jpg) (https://s302.photobucket.com/user/sideways777777/media/test-2157_zpscvrgusdr.jpg.html)
"One simply does not pick off one of my passes..."
(https://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/sideways777777/test-2136_zpsod4pgtyl.jpg) (https://s302.photobucket.com/user/sideways777777/media/test-2136_zpsod4pgtyl.jpg.html)
(https://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn85/sideways777777/test-2272_zpsxpewmy5c.jpg) (https://s302.photobucket.com/user/sideways777777/media/test-2272_zpsxpewmy5c.jpg.html)
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Ah. Football. Even if it's pre season.
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Great pics, especially the Rivers one.
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Those are some pretty cool pictures. I can't wait for this season to get going. The Giants have a lot of potential so it should be fun.
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Sounds like the NFL might stop jerking Martavis Bryant around, so hopefully he'll be ready to go for the opener. If so, the Steelers should, in theory, have a scary good offense. The D will be the question mark, hopefully a couple younger guys continue to grow up and develop and they will be solid.
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Watched the Patriots preseason opener last night, and I never noticed it before, but after a preseason game Bill is a little dour in his post game interview. Not like his regular season chipper self.
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Watched the Patriots preseason opener last night, and I never noticed it before, but after a preseason game Bill is a little dour in his post game interview. Not like his regular season chipper self.
Has he ever even smiled in a presser? :lol
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I think Barto forgot to use green. :lol No such thing as a chipper BB. :yeahright
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Ezekiel Elliot suspended. This one has been a long time coming, unfortunately. Talented kid, but he's a little bit of a mess.
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Ezekiel Elliot suspended. This one has been a long time coming, unfortunately. Talented kid, but he's a little bit of a mess.
Six games is excessive, but I doubt he serves them all. Jerry will remind Lil' Rog who's boss and it'll come down to 2 or 3 games. And has he actually done anything particularly wrong? From what I gather it's mostly just reports about his being a young, dumb knucklehead
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If a guy plays for Dallas and there's even a hint of wrong doing, a suspension is practically guaranteed. It's just a matter of how long and the O-line is good enough to accommodate just about any decent to good RB. Like Barto said, it'll most likely be less than 6 games.
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There's been whispers of a suspension this week.
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Ezekiel Elliot suspended. This one has been a long time coming, unfortunately. Talented kid, but he's a little bit of a mess.
Six games is excessive, but I doubt he serves them all. Jerry will remind Lil' Rog who's boss and it'll come down to 2 or 3 games. And has he actually done anything particularly wrong? From what I gather it's mostly just reports about his being a young, dumb knucklehead
There was a stink here in Ohio when he was in college about an alleged domestic assault, but from what I remember the details were fairly sketchy. The suspension looks like it might be an extension of that after he was drafted. However, he needs (needed) to extract himself from a situation where there were things that were going on that weren't in his best interest. It appears that he was foolish enough to stick around people that he should have "put in the rearview" so to speak. At some point you have to realize that it's only going to harm you and move on. He didn't, so he'll pay a price.
Note: The sketchy situation was his girlfriend (possibly falsely) accusing him of beating on her, and he stuck around etc. etc... The rumor was that she was making the accusations to manipulate him, and then trying to coerce people into corroborating the story. That's really all that I know, and it could be complete bullshit.
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On the EE suspension - let's remember this certainly isn't the first time the NFL has suspended a player based solely on allegations that never even went to court. Sounds about right to me.
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On the EE suspension - let's remember this certainly isn't the first time the NFL has suspended a player based solely on allegations that never even went to court. Sounds about right to me.
The suspension doesn't bother me one bit. I used to be a big NASCAR fan, and one of the unwritten rules was to let drivers handle their own disagreements. One driver wrecks another, then the "victim" wrecks the aggressor the next week. Business was settled and everyone was even. But when drivers started prolonging their feuds, the sanctioning body/league would sit them down and have a conversation that went like this:
YOU NEED US MORE THAN WE NEED YOU.
The NFL needs to implement this, but there's a lot of other factors that can prevent it in the players union, agents, contracts, etc. Essentially, the NFL needs to find a way to teach these players that putting yourselves into a situation that can embarrass themselves, their teams, and the league can lead to a suspension or the end of their career. I like that Goodell is trying to show the players that they need to behave like role models, even if he is inconsistent in enforcement.
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I know there was an issue where he was caught up in something at a nigthclub that he very likely had nothing whatsoever to do with. And there was the issue of him pulling the girls top down at a parade. I think where there's a problem is that he was apparently called into Lil Rog's office for the "come to Jesus" speech, and immediately left to go tear it up in a club somewhere. That's the sort of thing that'll piss an employer off.
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On the EE suspension - let's remember this certainly isn't the first time the NFL has suspended a player based solely on allegations that never even went to court. Sounds about right to me.
The suspension doesn't bother me one bit. I used to be a big NASCAR fan, and one of the unwritten rules was to let drivers handle their own disagreements. One driver wrecks another, then the "victim" wrecks the aggressor the next week. Business was settled and everyone was even. But when drivers started prolonging their feuds, the sanctioning body/league would sit them down and have a conversation that went like this:
YOU NEED US MORE THAN WE NEED YOU.
The NFL needs to implement this, but there's a lot of other factors that can prevent it in the players union, agents, contracts, etc. Essentially, the NFL needs to find a way to teach these players that putting yourselves into a situation that can embarrass themselves, their teams, and the league can lead to a suspension or the end of their career. I like that Goodell is trying to show the players that they need to behave like role models, even if he is inconsistent in enforcement.
Yeah, the Carl Edwards vs. BK deal a few years back is a great example of them taking it too far. Great analogy.
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6 gamed sounds about right, given Goodell's history.
If he has a clue, this will be a wakeup call for Elliot.
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I don't know the details but from my understanding he hasn't been charged with a crime and to me that makes 6 games harsh. 2 sounds right to me, and maybe they do lower his sentence so it works out alright.
Granted I'm a giants fan so I'm cool with it on that level
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After reading the full report I have no problem with the suspension or the length. This guy needs a slap in the face.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/08/11/ezekiel-elliott-suspension-cowboys-domestic-violence
Also, what the hell are the bills thinking getting rid of Watkins?
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Also, what the hell are the bills thinking getting rid of Watkins?
All that I can think is that he seems to be injury prone.
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I don't know the details but from my understanding he hasn't been charged with a crime and to me that makes 6 games harsh. 2 sounds right to me, and maybe they do lower his sentence so it works out alright.
6 games is on par with what they have done in some similar situations in the past I think. Sure, he will appeal and probably get less.
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I don't know the details but from my understanding he hasn't been charged with a crime and to me that makes 6 games harsh. 2 sounds right to me, and maybe they do lower his sentence so it works out alright.
6 games is on par with what they have done in some similar situations in the past I think. Sure, he will appeal and probably get less.
Yea, I just think in general if you aren't charged with a crime than 6 is excessive. Im ok with some sort of punishment though, which is why I think 2 is OK. But then again, Im just stating based only from legally being charged.
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I don't know the details but from my understanding he hasn't been charged with a crime and to me that makes 6 games harsh. 2 sounds right to me, and maybe they do lower his sentence so it works out alright.
6 games is on par with what they have done in some similar situations in the past I think. Sure, he will appeal and probably get less.
Yea, I just think in general if you aren't charged with a crime than 6 is excessive. Im ok with some sort of punishment though, which is why I think 2 is OK. But then again, Im just stating based only from legally being charged.
Oh I totally agree with you, I was just saying 6 aligns with what they (NFL) have done before.
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LOVE the addition of Sammy Watkins to my Rams! We now have a true #1, which will make everyone else better ;) McVay isn't messing around, and with Wade on the other side of the ball we might surprise some folks this year.
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Also, what the hell are the bills thinking getting rid of Watkins?
All that I can think is that he seems to be injury prone.
I believe Watkins is a free agent next year (restricted maybe?), and the Bills probably figured he wasn't going to stay. Plus, he has been hurt so much that he has not earned his contract, so unloading it off their books probably helps.
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Also, what the hell are the bills thinking getting rid of Watkins?
All that I can think is that he seems to be injury prone.
I believe Watkins is a free agent next year (restricted maybe?), and the Bills probably figured he wasn't going to stay. Plus, he has been hurt so much that he has not earned his contract, so unloading it off their books probably helps.
I believe the team had a 5th year option, and they opted out. So they are unloading him for more than the compensatory pick they would've received when he left.
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I believe the team had a 5th year option, and they opted out. So they are unloading him for more than the compensatory pick they would've received when he left.
Ah, that makes sense, then. :tup :tup
I have heard good thing about Zay Jones, the Bills rookie WR, and with Anquan Boldin there to mentor him, Watkins became expendable. Plus, they did get Jordan Matthews, who drops a lot of balls, but can make plays. That could be a good trio of WRs.
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I don't know the details but from my understanding he hasn't been charged with a crime and to me that makes 6 games harsh. 2 sounds right to me, and maybe they do lower his sentence so it works out alright.
6 games is on par with what they have done in some similar situations in the past I think. Sure, he will appeal and probably get less.
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20708269_1486861511407504_3589305289056609630_n.jpg?oh=0be3cf898fdd766e9b243d9734fa1913&oe=5A2A2AE3)
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:lol
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:lol
Does Dak like 'em soft? :lol
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https://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/08/13/oakland-raiders-running-back-marshawn-lynch-sits-during-national-anthem-at-preseason-nfl-game.html
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Yawn.
Let's keep this about football. That is my thought anyway. :tup :tup
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Yawn.
Let's keep this about football. That is my thought anyway. :tup :tup
Agreed.
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Jason Witten's heir apparent, Rico Gathers is a beast of a man. Still a little raw, but if developed properly, can be the next big thing in the league.
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/iOlNV1MI3GNsY7s3y7ohviY3sps=/0x0:3035x2023/920x613/filters:focal(1161x633:1645x1117):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56166175/usa_today_10196642.0.jpg)
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LOVE the addition of Sammy Watkins to my Rams! We now have a true #1, which will make everyone else better ;) McVay isn't messing around, and with Wade on the other side of the ball we might surprise some folks this year.
Yea hopefully.
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Jason Witten's heir apparent, Rico Gathers is a beast of a man. Still a little raw, but if developed properly, can be the next big thing in the league.
I've heard good things about him. Witten is still good, but is approaching the end, so they need a new TE to step up.
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The only thing I don't like about JW is his lack of yards after the catch. Seems like he's so easy to bring down in recent years. Still, so many other things he does very well.
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You know you're in trouble for the season when the headline the morning after the first preseason game is 'QBs Manage Not to Embarass Themselves in Preseason Opener" :lol
:(
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You know you're in trouble for the season when the headline the morning after the first preseason game is 'QBs Manage Not to Embarass Themselves in Preseason Opener" :lol
:(
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/jerry-rice-54-years-old-runs-routes-49ers-practice-still-game-201810949.html
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I think it is usually like 5 teams from the playoffs miss them the following year.
Dallas
Atlanta
Seattle
Green Bay
NY Giants
Detroit
New England
Kansas City
Pittsburgh
Houston
Oakland
Miami
Who do you think the most likely of those 5 are to miss this year?
I will say:
Miami
Detroit
Houston
Oakland
Atlanta
5 teams most likely to rise up this year and make it:
Tampa Bay (I think they win the South)
Tennnessee
Philadelphia
Minnesota
Denver (homer pick :biggrin:)
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I think all of your miss picks are spot on with Atlanta being the exception. I think that they win the division, and host a wild card game. TB is a year or two away, NO is a floundering joke and Cam Newton is damaged goods. The division is Atlanta's for the taking.
And if Denver can settle their line issues from last year, they have the opportunity to be a pretty damn good team.
I'd also say that Dallas is very much in danger of the "sophomore slump", and they could easily miss the play-offs. Philly and NYG could present a serious challenge to them.
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I picked Atlanta because of the Super Bowl hangover thing. They have a lot of young talent, so it won't surprise me if they make the playoffs again. Their offense won't be as good, though. After having that career year, Matt Ryan likely goes back to being what he always was (the 9th to 12th best QB in the NFL).
I think TB's time is now. Their defense started to get good down the stretch last year, and their offense looks loaded this year. Winston is the key, and I think he will be good enough for them to win 10-11 games.
I said that Denver was a homer pick and it totally was. I actually fear they are going to have a down year under a new coach and with the QB situation in flux. Unlike some teams (*cough* New England *cough*), they don't play in a shitty division where they can coast to winning it from the start. The Chiefs should still be good, the Chargers are getting better, and the Raiders might be better this year (while having a worse record). Having an above .500 divisional record in the AFC West this year will be a major accomplishment.
The Giants should be a playoff team again, but that o-line of theirs will be their downfall.
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I said that Denver was a homer pick and it totally was. I actually fear they are going to have a down year under a new coach and with the QB situation in flux. Unlike some teams (*cough* New England *cough*), they don't play in a shitty division where they can coast to winning it from the start. The Chiefs should still be good, the Chargers are getting better, and the Raiders might be better this year (while having a worse record). Having an above .500 divisional record in the AFC West this year will be a major accomplishment.
I haven't kept up with things out west very much lately, so I might be completely off the mark, but I wouldn't want to be in the Chargers or Raiders shoes right now. Stability seems like it would be such an important component to success in a league as competitive as the NFL, and when I think about both teams situations all I can think of is some kind of turmoil bubbling just below the surface. Both teams feel like they're homeless to me with what they're going through.
On the other hand, Denver and KC have great stadiums and a rabid fan-base. It remains to be seen how the fans in Oakland will react to the impending move, and the fans in LA have already shown their lack of interest in pro football over the long term. The only professional sports franchise that I can think of that has had major success coupled with a disinterested fan-base is the Florida Marlins. I'm still amazed that the ownership of the Rams and Chargers were stupid enough to go back there. It's like dating your ex.
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Stability at the QB position is super important, too, and that is the one thing the Broncos do not have right now that the other AFC West teams do. Siemien is the starter, as he should be, and he will be good, but his upside is limited.
In other news, Beckham is hurt. We'll see how bad it is. Oh, and the Giants o-line is still complete trash.
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Sounds bad for Beckham. I hope not.
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I'd also say that Dallas is very much in danger of the "sophomore slump", and they could easily miss the play-offs. Philly and NYG could present a serious challenge to them.
You know, this just seems like an anti Dallas comment without really knowing all the components they have in place to continue the success they had last year. It wasn't just the Dak and Zeke show and they were no ordinary rookies. They were surrounded by a cast of damn good players and the O-line will still be one of the best this year. Not to mention some improvements defensively. You know, a team. That's what it takes to win. So yeah, is there a possibility of a slump this year? Maybe. That's goes for just about any team. But "very much in danger"? That simply isn't true. Even with Zeke out the first few games, they have plenty of running talent to back him up.
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the fans in LA have already shown their lack of interest in pro football over the long term.
How you figure?? Rams were 2nd in the NFL in home game attendance last year.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/attendance.htm
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the fans in LA have already shown their lack of interest in pro football over the long term.
How you figure?? Rams were 2nd in the NFL in home game attendance last year.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/attendance.htm
I think that's more of a stadium capacity thing...but still... one year is short term. Long term was the era of the Rams and Raiders sharing the city.
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the fans in LA have already shown their lack of interest in pro football over the long term.
How you figure?? Rams were 2nd in the NFL in home game attendance last year.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/attendance.htm
I think that's more of a stadium capacity thing...but still... one year is short term. Long term was the era of the Rams and Raiders sharing the city.
Got it... I thought PS was talking about now, not then. There are some factors that make it hard to compare now vs. then. #1, NFL popularity has come a ways since 'the early 90's. I think folks are a little more hungry for the game after 20 years of no Local teams. Now, at the end of the day I will concede that if you don't win in LA folks will find other shit to do with their entertainment dollars. :lol
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I'd also say that Dallas is very much in danger of the "sophomore slump", and they could easily miss the play-offs. Philly and NYG could present a serious challenge to them.
You know, this just seems like an anti Dallas comment without really knowing all the components they have in place to continue the success they had last year. It wasn't just the Dak and Zeke show and they were no ordinary rookies. They were surrounded by a cast of damn good players and the O-line will still be one of the best this year. Not to mention some improvements defensively. You know, a team. That's what it takes to win. So yeah, is there a possibility of a slump this year? Maybe. That's goes for just about any team. But "very much in danger"? That simply isn't true. Even with Zeke out the first few games, they have plenty of running talent to back him up.
Last year Dallas actually played like a team, which is unusual for them. As a rule it's a team with no heart, and I think that's what they revert back to. There's just not a football culture here and hasn't been for a long time. It's possible that Dak is the sort of leader that brings them all together, but I'm not sure yet. If he's not then they're in trouble. My hunch is that Dallas isn't the dominant team in the NFC-E like last year and the entire division beats the hell out of each other leaving the standings a jumbled mess.
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the fans in LA have already shown their lack of interest in pro football over the long term.
How you figure?? Rams were 2nd in the NFL in home game attendance last year.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/attendance.htm
I'm basing my opinion on history and what many of the sports fans have shown over the years in that city.
To begin, the city had 2 NFL franchises at one time in the not so distant past. In fact, both the Rams and the Chargers were LA residents at one point in time, and both left for greener pastures. The Rams and Raiders were there when I was growing up and I remember the lack of fan support being an issue back in the 80's and 90's. In my opinion (which doesn't amount to shit, but that's what it is), the Rams and Chargers have a very short window to become successful franchises before the local fans turn their backs on them. For the most part, the Rams weren't a very good team during their last 10-15 years in LA(Anaheim) prior to their move to St. Louis, and the fans out there basically ignored them.
Over the years there's been a running joke in MLB that the fans at Dodger games don't show up until the 4th inning, and then they bolt for the exits in the 7th inning. It's a little bit of an exaggeration, but I remember watching a cubs broadcast on WGN and they showed fans exiting the parking lot en-mass while the game was still being played. I realize that the traffic in LA is notoriously terrible, but I can only guess that this will be the same fan-base that will be split between the Chargers and Rams. Seems a little fickle, and disinterested to me.
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I'd also say that Dallas is very much in danger of the "sophomore slump", and they could easily miss the play-offs. Philly and NYG could present a serious challenge to them.
You know, this just seems like an anti Dallas comment without really knowing all the components they have in place to continue the success they had last year. It wasn't just the Dak and Zeke show and they were no ordinary rookies. They were surrounded by a cast of damn good players and the O-line will still be one of the best this year. Not to mention some improvements defensively. You know, a team. That's what it takes to win. So yeah, is there a possibility of a slump this year? Maybe. That's goes for just about any team. But "very much in danger"? That simply isn't true. Even with Zeke out the first few games, they have plenty of running talent to back him up.
They absolutely have one of the best lines in the game. However, they(mostly talking about Dak in this instance) don't have the benefit of "sneaking up" on the rest of the league, anymore. There's a year's worth of tape for opposing defenses to study, and as EB mentioned, the rest of their division can be extremely competitive. In fact, I'm going to go along with EB's prediction and say that they beat the shit out of each other and leave a mess for the end of the season.
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Dallas should still be good enough to win 10+ games, even in that division. When your offensive line is that good, it makes all the difference.
On the flip side, the Giants is the sexy pick this year, but I don't see it. Yeah, their D is stellar, but their offensive line is trash and Eli cannot be trusted. Like the Broncos, their D is good enough to possibly carry them to the playoffs, but that's about it.
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I'm basing my opinion on history and what many of the sports fans have shown over the years in that city.
To begin, the city had 2 NFL franchises at one time in the not so distant past. In fact, both the Rams and the Chargers were LA residents at one point in time, and both left for greener pastures. The Rams and Raiders were there when I was growing up and I remember the lack of fan support being an issue back in the 80's and 90's. In my opinion (which doesn't amount to shit, but that's what it is), the Rams and Chargers have a very short window to become successful franchises before the local fans turn their backs on them. For the most part, the Rams weren't a very good team during their last 10-15 years in LA(Anaheim) prior to their move to St. Louis, and the fans out there basically ignored them.
Over the years there's been a running joke in MLB that the fans at Dodger games don't show up until the 4th inning, and then they bolt for the exits in the 7th inning. It's a little bit of an exaggeration, but I remember watching a cubs broadcast on WGN and they showed fans exiting the parking lot en-mass while the game was still being played. I realize that the traffic in LA is notoriously terrible, but I can only guess that this will be the same fan-base that will be split between the Chargers and Rams. Seems a little fickle, and disinterested to me.
Well, the Chargers were in LA for 1 year. Hell, I believe the LA Dons of the All American Football Conference lasted longer than them...LOL. Like I mentioned earlier, winning is key. Winning will draw folks in, except for the diehards like me who will be at every game. There's just too many things to spend your entertainment dollars on here. I've been a Rams fan since I was 6 in 1969, Coliseum, Big A, and back to the Coliseum. As far as popularity back in the 80's people went to the games. The Rams went to the playoffs 7 times in the 80's and the Super Bowl once (79-80). The problems came mostly in the 90's with Georgia and John Shaw fucking the team up. Add to that no viable stadium plan. Most folks don't realize that the greater Los Angeles area has NEVER built an NFL Stadium, until now. The Stadiums and deals the Rams and Raiders had in the early 90's sucked ass. As far as the Dodgers yeah, If I'm a season ticket holder I'm not getting stuck in the parking lot every game for 1-2 hours, then dealing with FWY traffic. So yeah, if you want to call us "Fickle" because we don't want to deal with 3 hr's of travel after every game then I guess we're fickle :lol. The Coliseum is actually not too bad. Last year we would be out of the lot and on to the FWY in about 15-20 mins.
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I'd also say that Dallas is very much in danger of the "sophomore slump", and they could easily miss the play-offs. Philly and NYG could present a serious challenge to them.
You know, this just seems like an anti Dallas comment without really knowing all the components they have in place to continue the success they had last year. It wasn't just the Dak and Zeke show and they were no ordinary rookies. They were surrounded by a cast of damn good players and the O-line will still be one of the best this year. Not to mention some improvements defensively. You know, a team. That's what it takes to win. So yeah, is there a possibility of a slump this year? Maybe. That's goes for just about any team. But "very much in danger"? That simply isn't true. Even with Zeke out the first few games, they have plenty of running talent to back him up.
They absolutely have one of the best lines in the game. However, they(mostly talking about Dak in this instance) don't have the benefit of "sneaking up" on the rest of the league, anymore. There's a year's worth of tape for opposing defenses to study, and as EB mentioned, the rest of their division can be extremely competitive. In fact, I'm going to go along with EB's prediction and say that they beat the shit out of each other and leave a mess for the end of the season.
Dallas should still be good enough to win 10+ games, even in that division. When your offensive line is that good, it makes all the difference.
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Dallas' defense is obviously their weak spot, but their offense's ability to grind out long drives and dominate time of possession goes a long way in aiding the defense and making their job less difficult.
Plus, I think Dak Prescott is the real deal and will be better this year than last.
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Dallas' defense is obviously their weak spot, but their offense's ability to grind out long drives and dominate time of possession goes a long way in aiding the defense and making their job less difficult.
Plus, I think Dak Prescott is the real deal and will be better this year than last.
I'm not quite sold on Dak, yet. I can't really even say why I feel that way, to be honest. I do have a little bit of "anti-cowboy" bias, and that might be coloring how I see the situation. It's not really even against the players. I seriously dislike Jerry Jones. I'm usually neutral when it comes to NFL team owners, but the NFC East has two owners that bug the shit out of me as a fan in general. Jerry Jones and Dan Snider tend to raise my blood psi at the mere mention of their names.
It should be interesting to see how they do. No doubt that they do have a talented roster on the offensive side of the ball.
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Dallas' defense is obviously their weak spot, but their offense's ability to grind out long drives and dominate time of possession goes a long way in aiding the defense and making their job less difficult.
Plus, I think Dak Prescott is the real deal and will be better this year than last.
I'm not quite sold on Dak, yet. I can't really even say why I feel that way, to be honest. I do have a little bit of "anti-cowboy" bias, and that might be coloring how I see the situation. It's not really even against the players. I seriously dislike Jerry Jones. I'm usually neutral when it comes to NFL team owners, but the NFC East has two owners that bug the shit out of me as a fan in general. Jerry Jones and Dan Snider tend to raise my blood psi at the mere mention of their names.
It should be interesting to see how they do. No doubt that they do have a talented roster on the offensive side of the ball.
What exactly has Dak Prescott won? He's still in "potential to be the real deal" land unless and until he wins something. The history of the NFL is positively LITTERED with guys who were the "real deal" and who won exactly naught. Frankly, I'm a "clubhouse" guy. I think there are organizations/peple that are winners and there are those that are not. I long said that "Tony Romo was NEVER going to win a Super Bowl in the NFL" and - at least so far - I was right. Jim Kelly. Cam Newton (so far).
The league is hard, and it is unforgiving. We haven't yet seen the league react to the Cowboys, and they will. believe you me, they will. I don't see Jerry Jones and Jason The Coach (blanking on his name...) being the guys to push him over the - GARRETT! I thought of it - edge.
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So, if Scott Norwood makes that FG against the Giants, Jim Kelly suddenly becomes a winner. I love that kind of thinking. :lol :biggrin:
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Kev, you are treading on coming to the dark side. You don't have to win a Superbowl to be ........ :lol
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So, if Scott Norwood makes that FG against the Giants, Jim Kelly suddenly becomes a winner. I love that kind of thinking. :lol :biggrin:
Didn't at all say that. He had three other opportunities that he didn't capitalize on. But he's absolutely not one until at least one of them goes through.
Look, personally, I believe you are not a "winner" - or "elite", I'll say it. it's not like it's Volde... STOP IT! - at a MINIMUM until you win the big prize. It doesn't work the other way, which is why Kev missed it, since winning the big prize doesn't make you a winner or elite, but it's the cover charge at the door to get into that club. Dan Marino is a prime example. Great skills, great numbers, but I can remember watching him and saying to my dad "Why does he always yell at his teammates when they're losing?" Did you see Tom Brady yell at ANYONE when it was 28-3? One of the things I loved most about that Super Bowl was me standing up with my hands on my head wondering how it could be so bad, my daughter checked out, disappointed in her TB jersey and ready to cry, and you look at Bill and Tom, and it was the exact same facial expression as you see during a pre-season game. Business as usual. Why? BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW TO WIN. Jimmy Johnson (and the hair!) same thing. Lou the Guy From Alabama, same thing. You have these maniacs that THINK they know how to win - I'm putting Jim Harbaugh here - but flake when the rock actually hits the hard surface, and that tells me they don't know how to win.
I think Trent Dilfer - or it might have been Steve Young, but it was that show - said that "Cam Newton doesn't know what he doesn't know, so he will never be a winner. He doesn't know what he needs to work on, and part of that is his demeanor and his temperament". And this was BEFORE they collapsed like a house made of Hoyle against the undermatched, inferior (talent-wise), but far better coached and far more mature Broncos.
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Tom just has Gisele fight his battles for him :lol
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All of that bluster aside, my point still stands: Jim Kelly was a kicker's made field goal away from being a winner. Poor guy.
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All of that bluster aside, my point still stands: Jim Kelly was a kicker's made field goal away from being a winner. Poor guy.
No, he was a missed field goal away from winning a Super Bowl, which is an element of being a winner. He wins that, and he's Trent Dilfer and/or Phil Simms. Are they "winners"? "Elite"?
(For the record, I like Jim Kelly, and think he was a very good, if not great QB. He had FOUR TRIES to bring home the hardware, though, and didn't. That is important information. Remember, my original post was also talking about "organizations". It's not JUST Jim Kelly. Another good example is the Broncos. They lost four, and as much as I like the guy, Dan Reeves didn't know how to close the deal either. Elway learned how, because he later won two as a player and what, one as an Exec? I'm not suggesting this is a set formula.)
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All of that bluster aside, my point still stands: Jim Kelly was a kicker's made field goal away from being a winner. Poor guy.
No, he was a missed field goal away from winning a Super Bowl, which is an element of being a winner. He wins that, and he's Trent Dilfer and/or Phil Simms. Are they "winners"? "Elite"?
Did you not watch football in the 80s/90s? Even mentioning Dilfer in the same breath as Kelly is absurd. Simms is way below Kelly's level too but at least had stretches of consistent play. Kelly was regarded as a top tier QB not far behind Montana, Marino, and Elway for at least half of his career. I think you're scoffing at the dude's accomplishments because you're trying to support your argument.
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Tom just has Gisele fight his battles for him :lol
In private you know he told her to STFU. :lol
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Tom just has Gisele fight his battles for him :lol
In private you know he told her to STFU. :lol
I'm not sure. If she threatened to cut off his allowance that could sting quite a bit.
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Nah, you can tell she's worried and that's why she let it slip out. I think we all know the risk one take in playing his game.
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All of that bluster aside, my point still stands: Jim Kelly was a kicker's made field goal away from being a winner. Poor guy.
No, he was a missed field goal away from winning a Super Bowl, which is an element of being a winner. He wins that, and he's Trent Dilfer and/or Phil Simms. Are they "winners"? "Elite"?
(For the record, I like Jim Kelly, and think he was a very good, if not great QB. He had FOUR TRIES to bring home the hardware, though, and didn't. That is important information. Remember, my original post was also talking about "organizations". It's not JUST Jim Kelly. Another good example is the Broncos. They lost four, and as much as I like the guy, Dan Reeves didn't know how to close the deal either. Elway learned how, because he later won two as a player and what, one as an Exec? I'm not suggesting this is a set formula.)
Jim Kelly is a loser for giving up 37, 52, and 30 points to his opponents and leading his team into game-winning field goal position in the other. :justjen
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All of that bluster aside, my point still stands: Jim Kelly was a kicker's made field goal away from being a winner. Poor guy.
No, he was a missed field goal away from winning a Super Bowl, which is an element of being a winner. He wins that, and he's Trent Dilfer and/or Phil Simms. Are they "winners"? "Elite"?
(For the record, I like Jim Kelly, and think he was a very good, if not great QB. He had FOUR TRIES to bring home the hardware, though, and didn't. That is important information. Remember, my original post was also talking about "organizations". It's not JUST Jim Kelly. Another good example is the Broncos. They lost four, and as much as I like the guy, Dan Reeves didn't know how to close the deal either. Elway learned how, because he later won two as a player and what, one as an Exec? I'm not suggesting this is a set formula.)
Jim Kelly is a loser for giving up 37, 52, and 30 points to his opponents and leading his team into game-winning field goal position in the other. :justjen
And here is a cliche for Kelly's situation; 60 minutes of football. There were other chances he could have capitalized on in wide right I'm sure. Or other things the rest of the 21 primary players on his team could have done.
All of Brady's SBs pretty much could have gone either way. One of Montana's could have also. I'm sure Brady's poise and leadership had a lot to do with it, as Stadler hit on. Marino would have ripped the team a new one, and that's the end of that game. QBs naturally have a lot of influence. But let's not discount the entire team here for a QB and Brady; his first win was mostly due to the defense stopping a juggernaut. And Law had a pick-six, so there is 7 points. His last win had a top rated defense in points that let up 21 points to the top rated offense (taking out the pick-six). They locked it down after the 21 points, and didn't look back allowing Brady to do his thing.
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Excited for the start of the season.
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And Edelman comes up limping. Wonderful.
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And Edelman comes up limping. Wonderful.
Just read your post and realized the game does NOT start at 8:00! :facepalm:
And it's 13-0!!
EDIT: I see Gronk spent the off season watching the NBA. That was a hell of a flop on the PI.
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And it's preseason!!
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And it's preseason!!
Meaning I missed a lot of the Pats starters making plays, not boasting the score. :chill Gonna be watching scrubs for next game..
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And Edelman comes up limping. Wonderful.
That didn't look good. Non-contact knee injuries rarely are. As we're seeing, no team could weather the loss of a number 1 WR better than NE, but his presence in that group means a huge deal.
And Detroit looks like they showed up to play in a volleyball game. This doesn't look like a football team.
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And Detroit looks like they showed up to play in a volleyball game. This doesn't look like a football team.
I can't remember the last time that they did...
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Last year when they made the playoffs? :P
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And Edelman comes up limping. Wonderful.
That didn't look good. Non-contact knee injuries rarely are. As we're seeing, no team could weather the loss of a number 1 WR better than NE, but his presence in that group means a huge deal.
And Detroit looks like they showed up to play in a volleyball game. This doesn't look like a football team.
He's likely done.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20460082/new-england-patriots-wide-receiver-julian-edelman-carted-field-right-leg-injury
Doesn't honestly concern me a lot, they have enough guys to fill that role. They did fine from Welker to Edleman, and can do the same for him. Considering the stable of RBs, Gonk, Hogan, Mitchell, Amendola and Cooks. More worried about the defensive front.
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Yep, Edelman is easily replaceable. They are loaded at the skill positions this year; losing him won't matter.
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Yep, Edelman is easily replaceable. They are loaded at the skill positions this year; losing him won't matter.
Let's not go overboard that he is replaceable.
2016
98 Receptions
2015
62 Receptions
2014
92 Receptions
2013
105 Receptions
It will be an adjustment period. This is your go to guy for 1st downs and was always open.
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The Patriots have two big play threats at WR (Cooks and Hogan), THE best TE in football (Gronk), a really good number 2 TE and a handful of RBs who can all catch the ball. Oh yeah, and they have that Tom Brady fella, who was pretty good long before Julian freaking Edelman became their go-to possession receiver (thats all he is). They will be just fine.
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You counting on Gronk to play 16? Amendola also has played less to get 16 games since he was injury prone. Sure they have a lot but I've seen wide receivers play defensive back before here (Brown, Edelman) so to me this is before the season and he will miss the whole year. That is big.
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Tom Brady once led the league in touchdown passes with his three top pass catchers being Troy Brown, David Patten and Deoin Branch. And that was when Brady was only a 2nd year starter and not nearly the QB then that he is now. This is not big.
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Big, no. But I'm looking at the big picture. When Denver brat the Pats in the AFC Championship game the injuries hurt against the best defense in the league.
That's what matters.
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Ah, there's that injury excuse.
"Denver only beat us cause we had injuries!!" :P
No, what hurt was Von Miller and the boys knocking the crap out of Tom Brady all day. :coolio :hat
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Let me add this to what I'm saying.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/500x300q90/923/Eq6jgV.png) (https://imageshack.com/f/pnEq6jgVp)
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Ah, there's that injury excuse.
"Denver only beat us cause we had injuries!!" :P
No, what hurt was Von Miller and the boys knocking the crap out of Tom Brady all day. :coolio :hat
No. Not what I'm saying. A limping into a playoff team has a lesser chance of winning against great teams. Cone in man. You know that.
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Every team is beat up quite a bit by the time January rolls around.
And I forgot to address the chatter from yesterday...
All of that bluster aside, my point still stands: Jim Kelly was a kicker's made field goal away from being a winner. Poor guy.
No, he was a missed field goal away from winning a Super Bowl, which is an element of being a winner. He wins that, and he's Trent Dilfer and/or Phil Simms. Are they "winners"? "Elite"?
Did you not watch football in the 80s/90s? Even mentioning Dilfer in the same breath as Kelly is absurd. Simms is way below Kelly's level too but at least had stretches of consistent play. Kelly was regarded as a top tier QB not far behind Montana, Marino, and Elway for at least half of his career. I think you're scoffing at the dude's accomplishments because you're trying to support your argument.
Well said. Jim Kelly was a Hall of Fame QB, and we all know how hard it is for QBs who not win titles to get tons of credit and/or make the Hall. 'Nuff said.
Jim Kelly is a loser for giving up 37, 52, and 30 points to his opponents and leading his team into game-winning field goal position in the other. :justjen
Exactly. Dogging him for not taking advantage of his other three opportunities makes no sense when you consider that two of those three losses were to the Dallas juggernaut that was loaded beyond belief and the other was to one of the best single season teams we've ever seen ('91 Redskins).
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Jim Kelly was one of the greats. His having 0,1,2,3 or 4 rings wouldn't change that.
lol at the Lions all you want, but they really weren't the same team once Stafford got dinged up. No telling how far they would have gotten if he didn't get hurt.
Losing Edelman would suck for New England. But in the long run they'll be fine, so long as more and more guys don't get injured. But you can say that about every team.
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No doubt Kev. The healthier teams have a better chance because of the quality of teams they play against.
As a Pats fan, I always admired Kelly. To this day, just to get to 4 SB in a row is just unthinkable.
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If Edleman's done, and I figure he is from the way he went down, I'm not at all worried about it as a Patriots fan. As I said, no team in the league could weather it better right now. I'm really saddened by it as a football fan, though. Just like I was when Watt or Bridgewater went down. We're going to miss the opportunity to see something special. Their offense will roll right along, but with all of the pieces in place this was looking to be an offense on par with the Greatest Show on Turf, and unless you're a Jets fan that's something everybody can appreciate seeing.
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If Edleman's done, and I figure he is from the way he went down, I'm not at all worried about it as a Patriots fan. As I said, no team in the league could weather it better right now. I'm really saddened by it as a football fan, though. Just like I was when Watt or Bridgewater went down. We're going to miss the opportunity to see something special. Their offense will roll right along, but with all of the pieces in place this was looking to be an offense on par with the Greatest Show on Turf, and unless you're a Jets fan that's something everybody can appreciate seeing.
On behalf of the Ravens fans, we would most certainly not appreciate seeing the Patriots offense being special again. We humbly suggest that the Bronco fans on board be the ones to appreciate this potential feat. ;D
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Pass. :lol :lol
The Patriots might have the 5-1 lead on the Broncos in Super Bowls won this century, but we've got the 3-1 lead in head to head playoff games (with their only win being against Tebow :lol :lol). :hat
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Last year when they made the playoffs? :P
I probably should have used green text. I do tend to pick on them a little bit, though. Just like the NFC every December and January :lol
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Jim Kelly was one of the greats. His having 0,1,2,3 or 4 rings wouldn't change that.
lol at the Lions all you want, but they really weren't the same team once Stafford got dinged up. No telling how far they would have gotten if he didn't get hurt.
Losing Edelman would suck for New England. But in the long run they'll be fine, so long as more and more guys don't get injured. But you can say that about every team.
This isn't just for you, but for all the Kelly fans (of which I am one; I liked the guy. Class, style, humility...), you're starting a team. You have the choice between Jim Kelly, Dan Marino on one side, or John Elway, Roger Staubach, Peyton Manning, Bob Griese, Ben Roethlisberger, Bart Starr, Jim Plunkett and Eli Manning, I'm taking one of the latter group every single time. I might even take Warner, Favre and Theisman, too.
The object of a football game (or a football season) is not to make the Hall of Fame. It's to win the Super Bowl.
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Again, blaming one guy for the efforts of 22.
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Pass. :lol :lol
The Patriots might have the 5-1 lead on the Broncos in Super Bowls won this century, but we've got the 3-1 lead in head to head playoff games (with their only win being against Tebow :lol :lol). :hat
I'll gladly let you win that one over the last 17 years. :lol
Jim Kelly was one of the greats. His having 0,1,2,3 or 4 rings wouldn't change that.
lol at the Lions all you want, but they really weren't the same team once Stafford got dinged up. No telling how far they would have gotten if he didn't get hurt.
Losing Edelman would suck for New England. But in the long run they'll be fine, so long as more and more guys don't get injured. But you can say that about every team.
This isn't just for you, but for all the Kelly fans (of which I am one; I liked the guy. Class, style, humility...), you're starting a team. You have the choice between Jim Kelly, Dan Marino on one side, or John Elway, Roger Staubach, Peyton Manning, Bob Griese, Ben Roethlisberger, Bart Starr, Jim Plunkett and Eli Manning, I'm taking one of the latter group every single time. I might even take Warner, Favre and Theisman, too.
The object of a football game (or a football season) is not to make the Hall of Fame. It's to win the Super Bowl.
Eli? Eli? No way Jose! :lol
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Again, blaming one guy for the efforts of 22.
Like I'm the first guy in the history of sports commentary to do that... having said that, how many times have we seen guys - Tom Brady; Kurt Warner was GREAT for this - make the guys around him better. Some guys do that, others yell and bark at their receivers for whatever reason.
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When I think of Kelly, all I can think of is Fred Smerlas completely railing against him. He kept calling him a "womanizer". Smerlas hated the guy.
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This isn't just for you, but for all the Kelly fans (of which I am one; I liked the guy. Class, style, humility...), you're starting a team. You have the choice between Jim Kelly, Dan Marino on one side, or John Elway, Roger Staubach, Peyton Manning, Bob Griese, Ben Roethlisberger, Bart Starr, Jim Plunkett and Eli Manning, I'm taking one of the latter group every single time. I might even take Warner, Favre and Theisman, too.
The object of a football game (or a football season) is not to make the Hall of Fame. It's to win the Super Bowl.
All of these guys over Kelly lol?
Elway: Probably doesn't even get the chance to make a fourth and fifth SB without Terrell Davis and TD was way more the reason they won XXXII than him and despite how iconic his helicopter dive was, he went 12/22 123 yds. 0 TD/1 INT in that game. He turns in that performance with an average RB, he probably loses the game and who knows if he ever makes it to another one with an 0-4 resume being in his head. Also, his average margin of defeat was 32.0 ppg in his losses. Even if you take Kelly's three worst SB losses it's only 21.7 ppg.
Staubach: Maybe. But his defense made SB VI a cakewalk for him by only allowing 3 points and getting 3 takeaways while the ground game averaged 5.25 yards a carry gaining 252 yards compared to his 119.
Here's a breakdown of the Cowboys' scoring drives in that game with the first group of letters being how the Cowboys gained possession of the football, the next part being their starting field position for the drive, and the last part being what type of score followed by how much yardage he accounted for.
FUM-DAL 48-FG[9 yd] (two completions for 29 yards)
Punt-DAL 24-TD (three completions for 34 yards including TD)
KOff-DAL 29-TD (one non-scoring completion for 12 yards)
INT-MIA 9-TD (one completion, a 7 yard TD)
SB XII could've been as bad a bloodbath as SB XXIV considering that the Cowboys D had 8 takeaways but Dallas had to settle for five FG attempts and missed three of them. The summary below shows that three of their five scoring drives were for 35 yards or less due to a combo of their defense being the real MVP and Denver being flat out horrible.
INT-DEN 25-TD (one non-scoring completion for 13 yards)
INT-DEN 35-FG (one incomplete pass)
Punt-DAL 43-FG [43 yd] (two completions for 30 yards)
Punt-DAL 42-TD (two completions for 58 yards and a TD)
FMB-DEN 29-TD (a one-play drive ended by a HB pass for TD)
In SB X, he lost 21-17 while throwing 3 picks and fumbling 3 times which were all recovered by Dallas and being sacked 7 times.
Oddly enough, SB XIII seems to be either his best SB stat line or close to it with him going 17/30 228 3 TD 1 INT but he was still sacked 5 times (no way of knowing which were his fault or the O-line's without going back and watching it though.)
My point through all of this Staubach research is that he was a good QB but far from noteworthy in his SB victories (considering the ridiculous amount of help he got from his running game and D) and due to the way Landry used him he was basically a game manager if you check the box scores from Dallas' scoring drives in their two SB wins with him.
Peyton Manning: I agree with you on that one.
Bob Griese: He missed 9 games during the perfect '72 season and literally only threw five passes in the AFC CG that year. How much credit are you really trying to give him for having one of the deadliest backfields in NFL history combined with a beyond-stout D?
Ben Roethlisberger: Literally a game manager during the SB XL and XLIII runs and then lost the only SB where he could even be argued as being anything more than a game manager. He was below 3500 yards five times in his first seven seasons and below 20 TDs five times as well. With passing stats as highly inflated as they are since 2000, that's a pretty clear indication of a game manager especially when you consider how many high quality RBs he's played with. He's better than that these days but can't seem to make a SB. The fact that he injured himself on a motorcycle clearly violating the terms of his contract and might've raped a girl are just more reasons why it'd be foolish to go with him over Kelly.
Bart Starr: Lombardi's power sweep is what made that offense run. This dude is good but tends to get overrated because of all the titles they won as a team, not a platoon led by a standout QB. He averaged about 16 attempts per game for his entire career. Not a very daunting task when your job is just to hand off for 70% of the game and make about 9 good passes a game.
Plunkett and Manning: You're nearly trolling at this point.
Warner and Favre: I have no problem with them
Theisman: I doubt it but I'll research it later if you want.
Again, blaming one guy for the efforts of 22.
Like I'm the first guy in the history of sports commentary to do that... having said that, how many times have we seen guys - Tom Brady; Kurt Warner was GREAT for this - make the guys around him better. Some guys do that, others yell and bark at their receivers for whatever reason.
There are a lot of misguided ways to assemble criteria for drawing a conclusion. I'm not sure what the frequency with which they occur has to do with making them any less fallible.
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BF, I realize that I'm a steeler's homer when I say this, but I'd give Ben a little more credit for his play in the SB against Arizona. I think that it takes something more than a game manager to lead that game winning 4th quarter drive. And as I mention that drive, the stats on it alone are a little misleading as well. There were a couple of terrible drops by receivers during that drive when he made very good passes.
As far as Elway goes, he was lights out if my memory is correct in the SB against Atlanta. I haven't checked his stats for that game, but I do remember him torching Atlanta's secondary more than once in that game. I remember Denver being considered the best team in the league for about 3 years straight when he retired, and I imagine that much of that was due to his leadership. In fact, had they not had that puzzling playoff loss against Jacksonville the one season, he could have easily went out winning it 3 times instead of just twice. Yes, I realize that it's a "what-if", but he had "it" all the way to the end.
I think the "game manager" moniker gets thrown around a little too often. It usually gets used when a great running game, or a great defense is a big part of the equation, but people often forget that strategic and effective passing, or even the threat of it is a huge factor in a game. If you have average QB play (or no threat of an effective passing game) a defense will stack up against the run, or you'll put your own defense on the field too much and wear them down allowing the opposition to run up points. Yes, I'm stating the obvious, but stats don't always tell the complete story in this case. I'm usually a numbers guy, but there's still more to it than that.
Having said all of that, I think that Jim Kelly deserves to be mentioned along side many of the game's greats. You don't take a team to your league's championship four consecutive seasons without being an awesome QB.
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Pass. :lol :lol
The Patriots might have the 5-1 lead on the Broncos in Super Bowls won this century, but we've got the 3-1 lead in head to head playoff games (with their only win being against Tebow :lol :lol). :hat
I'll gladly let you win that one over the last 17 years. :lol
:tup :tup
Last year when they made the playoffs? :P
I probably should have used green text. I do tend to pick on them a little bit, though. Just like the NFC every December and January :lol
Well, the Lions haven't won a playoff game since 1991, so they deserve a little derision, but they are certainly not the laughingstock they used to be.
Again, blaming one guy for the efforts of 22.
Wait, you mean that other players besides the QB have something to do with winning and losing in a TEAM sport?? :biggrin:
The object of a football game (or a football season) is not to make the Hall of Fame. It's to win the Super Bowl.
Winners: Antowain Smith, CJ Anderson, Brandon Jacobs, Hakeem Nicks, Marques Colston, Deion Branch.
Losers: Barry Sanders, LaDainian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Calvin Johnson.
Thank you for clearing that up. :tup :tup
As far as Elway goes, he was lights out if my memory is correct in the SB against Atlanta. I haven't checked his stats for that game, but I do remember him torching Atlanta's secondary more than once in that game. I remember Denver being considered the best team in the league for about 3 years straight when he retired, and I imagine that much of that was due to his leadership. In fact, had they not had that puzzling playoff loss against Jacksonville the one season, he could have easily went out winning it 3 times instead of just twice. Yes, I realize that it's a "what-if", but he had "it" all the way to the end.
Actually, even though I am a HUGE Broncos fan, I am not sure they win three straight if they do not lose to Jacksonville, for the following reasons:
-There is no way to know who wins the SB in '96 if they had made it (GB was better in '96 than they were in '97). I like to think the Broncos would have won it, but the Packers were pretty awesome that year, having the number 1 overall offense AND defense.
-Shannon Sharpe said on Cowherd's show a while back that the loss to Jacksonville was major motivation for them the two years after that. It was talked about every single day.
-The psychology of SB32 completely changes if the Broncos had beaten Jax and went on to beat GB in SB31. In the two weeks leading up to SB32, the Broncos relished in the fact that they were the major underdog who was given little chance to win, while the defending champs, the Packers, were being stroked by everyone and all but considered a sure thing to win and repeat as champs. If the Broncos comes in as the champs and the Packers still that upstart "on the verge" team still in search of their first title, the dynamic completely changes.
That all aside, as much as I loved Elway as a player, I am sure he goes to sleep every night thanking God for Terrell Davis. Before 1997, Elway was largely considered a great QB who couldn't win the big game. Had his career ended with no Super Bowl title, he would have been Dan Marino without the gaudy passing numbers.
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I've no doubt that he's thankful for TD, and I don't mean to diminish the importance of the running game in those later years of his career. However, I can only think of a few instances where great QB play wasn't instrumental in the success of team and the other phases of play. John QB'd 5 super bowl teams, and it's definitely no fluke that he was at the helm of those teams.
The Ravens in the early 2000's, and the mid 80's Bears are the big examples that come to my mind where the QB play was "game manageresque", and didn't need to be any more than that. And maybe the mid 90's Steelers as well, but I'd say that Neil O'donnell was probably a better QB than Trent Dilfer and Jim Mcmahon.
There's also the argument that great players make others around them great, as well. The 70's Steelers, the 80's 49'ers and the 90's Cowboys etc. etc...
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Black_Floyd and KevSchmev: I think, respectfully, you are missing a key point in all of what I'm saying. I'm not saying "ONE GUY" wins champeenships. I'm not saying any of these guys blow or are elite. What I'm saying is this: The objective in the NFL is to win. Some guys have an intangible and they WIN, regardless of whether they throw for 450 yards and 5 TDs or they don't. I can't and won't tell you that all of them are equivalent in that manner, but there are guys that make everyone around them better. I think Ben is like that. They are NOT the same team without Ben Roethlisberger in there, and that's not at all because he's throwing like Warren Moon on crack binge. That's also why Mike lets him play when he's got bone fragments in his stools. Kelly HAD weapons, and he couldn't pull off even one out of four. You can parse the blame around - maybe Marv Levy was the guy that was holding them back, but Kelly didn't have enough to push them over the top.
I don't at all have a problem with "game managers". Ask Andy Reid, "game management" is not easy, and not everyone can do it. It takes poise, it takes not making mistakes, and it takes not trying to play outside your game. Tony Romo is an extremely talented ATHLETE, he's a horrid game manager. Horrid.
I'm taking "one game" out of this and looking at the big picture. Yeah, maybe Kelly DOES do enough to win that game but or Norwood. There are a lot of variables, and even Brady doesn't win all of them. But there are patterns and there are broad strokes. I think some QBs make their linebackers better. Their safeties. Their special teams. They have a way of getting their players to give another 10% when they've already given 105%.
Kenny Stabler and Jim McMahon are examples here. McMahon is getting a pretty bad rap in recent years, and I'm not sure why. His body let him down, badly, but that guy won at EVERY level. He made his guys play harder, and play more fierce. You can argue that that was a self-limiting proposition (healthwise) but it worked. Stabler; lefty with an arm like a wet rag, but he made it work somehow and that team - Stabler/Madden - is one of the best coach/QB pairings in NFL history, in my opinion. They had no business winning as much as they did, and yet...
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Winners: Antowain Smith, CJ Anderson, Brandon Jacobs, Hakeem Nicks, Marques Colston, Deion Branch.
Losers: Barry Sanders, LaDainian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Calvin Johnson.
Thank you for clearing that up. :tup :tup
I'm not sure why you keep making this more than it is. In terms of winning the big game, yeah, that's what I'm saying. But don't take it farther than it goes. Terrell Owens and Randy Moss are two of the best pure athletes to ever play the game.
They were toxic in the clubhouse, though. Would you really rather have Terrell Owens on your team than Julian Edelman? Would you really rather have Terrell Owens indoctrinating your rookies than Edelman? I'm also not putting WR/RBs at the same level as QBs, since some of them are not four down players.
While Owens is doing pushups in his front yard for the press, badmouthing the front office of his last team, Julian Edelman is trying to find places to put his rings and trophies. But in terms of pure athleticism? That's not even close. In a footrace? Owens is enjoying his post race beer before Edelman breaks the tape.
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Vontaze Burfict is a certifiable piece of shit but he just pulled off the ultimate troll. 62-yard pick 6 capped off by shrugging off Kirk Cousins at the goal line, knocking him to the ground, then leaping into the empty Redskin seats in the endzone and waving back to his teammates looking like some enthusiastic fan greeting his Bengal teammates.
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Winners: Antowain Smith, CJ Anderson, Brandon Jacobs, Hakeem Nicks, Marques Colston, Deion Branch.
Losers: Barry Sanders, LaDainian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Calvin Johnson.
Thank you for clearing that up. :tup :tup
I'm not sure why you keep making this more than it is. In terms of winning the big game, yeah, that's what I'm saying. But don't take it farther than it goes. Terrell Owens and Randy Moss are two of the best pure athletes to ever play the game.
They were toxic in the clubhouse, though. Would you really rather have Terrell Owens on your team than Julian Edelman? Would you really rather have Terrell Owens indoctrinating your rookies than Edelman? I'm also not putting WR/RBs at the same level as QBs, since some of them are not four down players.
While Owens is doing pushups in his front yard for the press, badmouthing the front office of his last team, Julian Edelman is trying to find places to put his rings and trophies. But in terms of pure athleticism? That's not even close. In a footrace? Owens is enjoying his post race beer before Edelman breaks the tape.
What trophies does Julian Edelman have? Seriously.
Did they give him one the whopping TWO times he managed to break 1,000 yards in a single season? Did he get one for being the 19th best player on a Super Bowl-winning team?
I am merely curious.
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Yeah, I'm staying out of this conversation. :lol
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Stabler; lefty with an arm like a wet rag, but he made it work somehow and that team - Stabler/Madden - is one of the best coach/QB pairings in NFL history, in my opinion. They had no business winning as much as they did, and yet...
They had plenty of business. Except they kept coming up against the Steelers.
They were my childhood's favorite team. Dave Casper remains my favorite all time player.
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Winners: Antowain Smith, CJ Anderson, Brandon Jacobs, Hakeem Nicks, Marques Colston, Deion Branch.
Losers: Barry Sanders, LaDainian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Calvin Johnson.
Thank you for clearing that up. :tup :tup
I'm not sure why you keep making this more than it is. In terms of winning the big game, yeah, that's what I'm saying. But don't take it farther than it goes. Terrell Owens and Randy Moss are two of the best pure athletes to ever play the game.
They were toxic in the clubhouse, though. Would you really rather have Terrell Owens on your team than Julian Edelman? Would you really rather have Terrell Owens indoctrinating your rookies than Edelman? I'm also not putting WR/RBs at the same level as QBs, since some of them are not four down players.
While Owens is doing pushups in his front yard for the press, badmouthing the front office of his last team, Julian Edelman is trying to find places to put his rings and trophies. But in terms of pure athleticism? That's not even close. In a footrace? Owens is enjoying his post race beer before Edelman breaks the tape.
What trophies does Julian Edelman have? Seriously.
Did they give him one the whopping TWO times he managed to break 1,000 yards in a single season? Did he get one for being the 19th best player on a Super Bowl-winning team?
I am merely curious.
I forget now, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but when the Pats scored 31 unanswered points to beat the Falcons, how many of those were awarded for his 1,000 yard seasons? But I'll bet Brady is thankful for ""the catch". He dug down and just flat out worked harder.
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I hate the 49ers more than any other team in any other sport in existence but I care about historical accuracy enough to say that we really don't need to start calling that "The catch". That was obviously Joe and Dwight's moment. Just like how Ladainian Tomlinson will never be LT.
Sorry if that came off as petty. I guess I get easily triggered by the redundant use of things tied to more historically important things. Edelman's catch was actually every bit as impressive as Clark's imo but one was the signature moment in the start of one of the NFL's greatest dynasties and the other was the signature moment in an incredible game.
Both were excellent but the Pats are still doing just fine with their 4-3 SB record under Bill and Tom if they lose that game. If Dwight doesn't make that catch, who knows if the 9ers ever end up that close to another SB appearance?
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I won't argue that, and I'm not trying to start something up; it was just a short-hand way to say that individual performances are fantastic for the individual, they are probably great to talk abuot once retirement sets in, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if Edelman had a choice: five years in a row with 750 yards and a Super Bowl ring, or 1,500 yards and home in December, he'd take the former every time. Other players? Not so much, and that's the main point of my position.
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Edelman might feel differently if was good enough and had enough talent to actually be a top NFL player. If I were a marginal, run of the mill possession WR, I'd be thrilled to get a ring, too.
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Dude. He's not top 5 but damn he came from a college as a QB to being very important to 2 Super bowls. 90 Receptions annually is not run of a mill.
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Edelman might feel differently if was good enough and had enough talent to actually be a top NFL player. If I were a marginal, run of the mill possession WR, I'd be thrilled to get a ring, too.
Not trying to sound like a homer, but Kev, you're way off on Edelman.
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As a more than half my life NE fan, I don't see the mammoth loss here. So I'm with Kev. For one, Welker was better than JE as a WR. I'm not talking just raw numbers, but something a little deeper like catch %. Now things such as JE on punts, connection with Brady and buying NE Koolaid vs Welker- different story. The receiving corps, taking in every position, is better than it was last year. It took a hit, but I think "next man up" will cover the loss well enough.
Their D-line, *especially* after this weekend, should be getting the talk here. No one bit my carrot from when I mentioned it previously.
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Julian made the big catches in 2 Superbowls. Wes did not.
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doesn't this tie *directly* to what Black Floyd is saying? 21 other players? Re-listen to Belichick's drop in A Football Life- "play 60 minutes of...!" SB42 was not lost by Wes, nor 46. 78% catch in SB42, 87% in SB46 sounds right about in his career %. And Randy Moss could have jumped up in SB42, and what did Hernandez and 20% of Gonk do in 46? Branch? Great that JE made a huge catch last year, and caught a TD while concussed in SB49. Doesn't make him irreplaceable. 21 other primary players too, including a defense- which was garbage in 2011.
Plus, we're on to 2017. 😜
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I love Wes. Julian is slightly better and Yes! Onto 2017!!
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I was never a big Welker fan, but he was better than Edelman. Not just a little better, a lot better. And far more durable, which meant a lot considering the punishment the slot guy in NE takes on those catches.
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Not just N.E. slot recievers, all slot receivers.
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Talk about a thankless job. You take tons of punishment, have shorter careers, and get called marginal, run of the mill possession WRs by internet blowhards. :biggrin: :lol
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4 to 6 million if your free at that job as well. Thankless for sure.
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Agree Kev on durability, not that JE can do anything about it really. We'll see if TB12 snake oil works for the rest of JE's career. We all agree the job sucks, and is probably right above NT and DTs for respect-to-dirt job ratio. Maybe Guards and Centers too.
That being said, I agreed with Keyshawn last year about the "less skilled" WRs in NE not being as raw talented. What Key and every other "talented" diva WR doesn't do is work as hard as those NE WRs. And it shows, and Key confirmed every opinion I've ever had on diva WRs. TB and any great QB I imagine wants a receiver to be at point A when they throw. JE and WW I would trust to be there. Not Keyshawn.
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Agreed. Look at Randy Moss and then imagine if he had worked his ass off for his entire career instead of taking games off, or hell, seasons off. He would have shredded Jerry Rice's numbers. He was so freakishly talented that he put up numbers to where you could argue that he was the 2nd best WR ever and it still seems like he underachieved.
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Guys, how many receivers do we put in that category? It's rarified air.
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What King, WRs that play hard often and have "raw talent?"
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You and I know th receivers that have come and gone that failed in N.E. (Don't make me list them😂) Brady is the greatest AN (Kev, shut it! :lol) but you need talent to have Brady's trust. Nevermind to the level of Julian. Let's penalize positions because you play with a great.
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Yeah I wouldn't have Brady's trust because I cannot catch consistently King! Plus I couldn't work as hard physically as he would need probably.
I don't think me and Kev are saying JE, WW, Branch, TBrown and etc cannot catch at all, or reliably. I don't think it is a size thing either, because A-Brown and other more recent WRs I cannot think of now that are short. We are saying that divas like Moss, TO, Keyshawn, Ochostinko, B-Marshall and so on are considered talented above most of their piers. This is evidenced by their money, and ProBowl acclaim. Yet every one has had episodes of pouting/self-glamourizing, and been identified as either taking plays off, losing focus, and/or running incorrect-freelance routes. If you take away a lot of those mental errors, you'd have a competitor for Rice, and someone who could play on NE with Brady. And Rice has recently, or I read recently somewhere, that he never considered himself actually talented like other WRs. Take away Moss' 2007, which he was motivated for, and you have standard Moss during his other 2.2 NE years.
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whatever happens, i have no doubt in my mind tht the patriots will cheat their way to another afc championship, maybe even a super bowl.
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whatever happens, i have no doubt in my mind tht the patriots will cheat their way to another afc championship, maybe even a super bowl.
I enjoy your tears.
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Yeah I wouldn't have Brady's trust because I cannot catch consistently King! Plus I couldn't work as hard physically as he would need probably.
I don't think me and Kev are saying JE, WW, Branch, TBrown and etc cannot catch at all, or reliably. I don't think it is a size thing either, because A-Brown and other more recent WRs I cannot think of now that are short. We are saying that divas like Moss, TO, Keyshawn, Ochostinko, B-Marshall and so on are considered talented above most of their piers. This is evidenced by their money, and ProBowl acclaim. Yet every one has had episodes of pouting/self-glamourizing, and been identified as either taking plays off, losing focus, and/or running incorrect-freelance routes. If you take away a lot of those mental errors, you'd have a competitor for Rice, and someone who could play on NE with Brady. And Rice has recently, or I read recently somewhere, that he never considered himself actually talented like other WRs. Take away Moss' 2007, which he was motivated for, and you have standard Moss during his other 2.2 NE years.
The irony to all of this is that WR is probably one of the least important positions in the NFL now when it comes to winning. QB, DE, OLT, C, LB, etc. are all more important.
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The one thing you guys are not thinking of is Brady has lasted because he's had that blanket to pass quick to when feeling pressure over his career. (Brown, Weller, Endelman)
Now who is the slot guy who Brady trusts to break the right way when feeling pressure?
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The one thing you guys are not thinking of is Brady has lasted because he's had that blanket to pass quick to when feeling pressure over his career. (Brown, Weller, Endelman)
Now who is the slot guy who Brady trusts to break the right way when feeling pressure?
Some guy named Biff that they got off waivers.
Fast forward to five years from now: "So WHAT Biff has never had 100 receptions or 1,000 yards; he has three Super Bowl rings. I'll take Biff over Brandon Marshall any day of the week!"
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I'll take Weller.
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:lol. @Stadler.
They need to for sure. You can't have em and dollar in the slot the guy can't last a full season so they need somebody for the slot.
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@bosk
Change my name to biff_stadler when you get a chance. Thank you :heart
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Too confusing. But I think I have an adequate compromise in mind. Stand by...
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:rollin
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Greatest Porn name ever.
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I know one admin for a past-their-prime prog band's forum who's getting a pair of Isotoner gloves for Christmas.
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If he doesn't want his, can I have them?
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Of course :)
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I know one admin for a past-their-prime prog band's forum who's getting a pair of Isotoner gloves for Christmas.
Haken has a forum? And you know the admin?
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Yeah I wouldn't have Brady's trust because I cannot catch consistently King! Plus I couldn't work as hard physically as he would need probably.
I don't think me and Kev are saying JE, WW, Branch, TBrown and etc cannot catch at all, or reliably. I don't think it is a size thing either, because A-Brown and other more recent WRs I cannot think of now that are short. We are saying that divas like Moss, TO, Keyshawn, Ochostinko, B-Marshall and so on are considered talented above most of their piers. This is evidenced by their money, and ProBowl acclaim. Yet every one has had episodes of pouting/self-glamourizing, and been identified as either taking plays off, losing focus, and/or running incorrect-freelance routes. If you take away a lot of those mental errors, you'd have a competitor for Rice, and someone who could play on NE with Brady. And Rice has recently, or I read recently somewhere, that he never considered himself actually talented like other WRs. Take away Moss' 2007, which he was motivated for, and you have standard Moss during his other 2.2 NE years.
The irony to all of this is that WR is probably one of the least important positions in the NFL now when it comes to winning. QB, DE, OLT, C, LB, etc. are all more important.
True. WR's aren't worth much if you don't have a good QB. However, I would also throw RB's in the mix also. QB's can struggle without a running game.
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I would say the receivers are more important in the Pats system then running back. The short passing is like a running game.
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That being said, the QB is the most important postion by leaps and bounds. Second is cornerbacks. Obviously with the league wanting a passing game.
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Yeah, good points King. It is a QB driven league.
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That being said, the QB is the most important postion by leaps and bounds. Second is cornerbacks. Obviously with the league wanting a passing game.
Eh, I would say having a stud pass rushier/defensive end is more important than a great cornerback. A stud pass rusher can disrupt an entire offense.
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I would put that 3 or 2b but it is very important.
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I'm on the fence about the usefulness of a pass rusher, factoring in Watt's absence last year. HOU seemed to do better without him. Could just be their team and scheme though, where as they accommodate him or something.
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He was injured though. It you have a start at key positions you build around that. So for each team it is a little different. Though the QB is by far the most important position on the team.
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I'm on the fence about the usefulness of a pass rusher, factoring in Watt's absence last year. HOU seemed to do better without him. Could just be their team and scheme though, where as they accommodate him or something.
Then again, Von Miller almost singlehandedly earned the Broncos a title (not literally, I get it, but he stepped up significantly and was the difference in TWO games).
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I won't fully disagree about the QB's importance in the game today. Especially as others have said with it being a passing league now, full tilt.
About other positions and rating their importance, I think it boils down to skill of the player. Outside of the O-line and interior clogging DTs, if a player is amazing, they can transform a team or games. As great as Anthony Munoz was, Ogden and so on, I don't think they could have transformed a game. There are some DEs that are more harmful them helpful- look at all the "pass rush" specialists late career, vs. when they were younger. Dwight Freeney and Bruce Smith come to mind. However, people like L-Taylor, Rice, Jason Witten, Singletary, D.Brooks, Ed Reed, D-Sanders and Lott slayed for most of their careers. And all of them were able to take over IMO.
That all said, a weak line on either side will can still mess up a team, it's just more manageable due to the numbers of lineman and scheming, especially offensive IMO. Mark Schlereth has been honest in that he couldn't due a moving block or something on Denver during their peak, yet you would have never known that based on the results.
But I don't like ranking positions by importance at all. The O-line is the number #1 reason IMO why the Pats' offense sputtered in SB42 & 46, because the line couldn't stop the pressure well enough for Brady's skillset at that time.
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I think the reason a line is different is that they have to deliver on EVERY play. A DE can (and often does, on "passing downs") play situationally. The QB and the O-Line are the two spots that don't have a real "situational" option.
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Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.
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Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.
I have high hopes for Hayden, but the rumor mill has him being a little beat up physically. Then again, a change of scenery might be all he needs.
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I think the reason a line is different is that they have to deliver on EVERY play. A DE can (and often does, on "passing downs") play situationally. The QB and the O-Line are the two spots that don't have a real "situational" option.
Run vs. pass, pull vs not, double-team vs. not. Who are the other personnel, what are they doing? Where are they positioned? What down it is, how many yards to first? In the redzone? Score of game? Type of play, where is it designed to go? Audible? What are the alternate options? Status of defensive players, who is who? What play do we expect from them? Lots of variables and situations to me. ;)
I've heard that actually the intelligence needed for O-line is higher than other positions. But I hear you Stadler of O-line needed to go on every play, as the QB- well after the exchanges and handoffs are not go time generally.
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Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.
I have high hopes for Hayden, but the rumor mill has him being a little beat up physically. Then again, a change of scenery might be all he needs.
Yup, but I'd consider a beat up Hayden better than a 100% Cockrell, and that's basically what this comes down to. Hayden and Burns is a much stronger starting two corners than Burns and Cockrell.
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I think the reason a line is different is that they have to deliver on EVERY play. A DE can (and often does, on "passing downs") play situationally. The QB and the O-Line are the two spots that don't have a real "situational" option.
Run vs. pass, pull vs not, double-team vs. not. Who are the other personnel, what are they doing? Where are they positioned? What down it is, how many yards to first? In the redzone? Score of game? Type of play, where is it designed to go? Audible? What are the alternate options? Status of defensive players, who is who? What play do we expect from them? Lots of variables and situations to me. ;)
I mean "situational" in the sense of "every down". There are several plays a game that the running backs or receivers can (though the best do not) take a down off. Le'Veon Bell is likely not on the field during a field goal, or punt, or certain passing downs (I'm not a Steelers fan, so if ACTUALLY Le'Veon Beal is, give me a break, and substitute in another player who isn't, because if he is, he is one of the exceptions to the rule).
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Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.
I agree that going all-in is the smart move, but they will never make the Super Bowl in the next few years if they have to play New England in the playoffs. Let's face it, the Patriots own them. It's no coincidence that the three times the Steelers have made the Super Bowl in the Belichick/Brady era were seasons they got lucky and avoided NE in the playoffs: 2005 (NE lost to the Broncos in the 2nd round), 2008 (Brady out of the year) and 2010 (NE lost to the Jets in the divisional round).
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Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.
I agree that going all-in is the smart move, but they will never make the Super Bowl in the next few years if they have to play New England in the playoffs. Let's face it, the Patriots own them. It's no coincidence that the three times the Steelers have made the Super Bowl in the Belichick/Brady era were seasons they got lucky and avoided NE in the playoffs: 2005 (NE lost to the Broncos in the 2nd round), 2008 (Brady out of the year) and 2010 (NE lost to the Jets in the divisional round).
I agree. I see a lot of folks predicting a Steelers - Pats AFC final and as a Steeler fan, I'm not terribly excited about that. :lol
Now that being said, if the Steelers can luck out again, like you mentioned, and somehow avoid NE, this team might be able to win it again before Ben retires.
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Is is weird thing about how teams just match up well against each other. It's true that the Patriots really do match up well against the Steelers but they have the hardest time against the Broncos. This happens in all sports.
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Just stopping in to say I'm excited to see the Steelers go out and improve at two positions they were weak in - tight end and corner. These moves tell me the franchise gets how important these next couple seasons are because quite frankly, after Ben hangs them up the Steelers are going to suck bad for a while. Might as well go all in while he's still here.
I have high hopes for Hayden, but the rumor mill has him being a little beat up physically. Then again, a change of scenery might be all he needs.
Yup, but I'd consider a beat up Hayden better than a 100% Cockrell, and that's basically what this comes down to. Hayden and Burns is a much stronger starting two corners than Burns and Cockrell.
Oh, most certainly. And I'm happy to see them making moves as well. It's not something that the team usually does at this point.
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Oh, most certainly. And I'm happy to see them making moves as well. It's not something that the team usually does at this point.
True that. It's totally out of character for the franchise, I didn't expect them to do this at all because it's not traditionally the "Steeler way".
Makes me wonder if they changed from their usual behavior due to Ben's shrinking window or because Dan's gone and Art II is running the show completely now. Or maybe a combination of both.
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Oh, most certainly. And I'm happy to see them making moves as well. It's not something that the team usually does at this point.
True that. It's totally out of character for the franchise, I didn't expect them to do this at all because it's not traditionally the "Steeler way".
Makes me wonder if they changed from their usual behavior due to Ben's shrinking window or because Dan's gone and Art II is running the show completely now. Or maybe a combination of both.
When I first seen the moves I thought it was all about Ben, but now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised to see a little bit of a change in the way that they do things. As long as they don't do drastic changes then I think they will be good.
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When I first seen the moves I thought it was all about Ben, but now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised to see a little bit of a change in the way that they do things. As long as they don't do drastic changes then I think they will be good.
Yeah if Art II can strike a balance between traditional Steeler consistency and couple that with some modern risk taking, that would be welcomed by me.
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2731077-jacoby-brissett-reportedly-traded-to-colts-from-patriots-for-phillip-dorsett
I don't get this at all. Even under the circumstances WR isn't their most pressing need. Moreover, we've seen that you can't just drop a receiver, even an excellent one, into NE's system and have it work out. And he's not even a kick returner.
Eh, nice thing about being a Patriots fan is that I don't have to worry about these sorts of things. Bill knows what he's doing. It'll be fine.
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They were short a receiver so I guess they put it as a priority. Lots of trades with the new set up for getting to 53.
Also, WUT?!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x500q90/922/FdGi38.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pmFdGi38j)
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Also, WUT?!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x500q90/922/FdGi38.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pmFdGi38j)
That's nuts!
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Heath Evens even Tweeted that it wasn't his choice. Lol
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Also, WUT?!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x500q90/922/FdGi38.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pmFdGi38j)
That's nuts!
Yeah...no. As much as I hate to say it, Bill Belichick is the greatest coach of all time and as long as he is there, New England will always have the edge in coaching.
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If anyone wants to play NFL Survivor, come on over. https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=50791.0
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My predictions for 2017. Don't feel too good about them overall. I know that Atlanta's due for a Super Bowl hangover, but the team still seems loaded to me. The AFC is all about New England unless something crazy happens. The NFC is an absolute toss up, with just about half the teams able to make a Super Bowl run.
AFCE
1. New England
2. Miami
3. Buffalo
4. N.Y. Jets
AFCN
1. Pittsburgh
2. Cincinnati (WC)
3. Baltimore
4. Cleveland
AFCS
1. Houston
2. Tennessee
3. Indianapolis
4. Jacksonville
AFCW
1. Oakland
2. Kansas City (WC)
3. L.A. Chargers
4. Denver
NFCE
1. Dallas
2. Philadelphia (WC)
3. N.Y. Giants
4. Washington
NFCN
1. Green Bay
2. Detroit
3. Minnesota
4. Chicago
NFCS
1. Atlanta
2. Carolina
3. Tampa Bay
4. New Orleans
NFCW
1. Arizona
2. Seattle (WC)
3. San Francisco
4. L.A. Rams
MVP Aaron Rodgers
ROY Joe Mixon
Super Bowl 52 - New England defeats Green Bay
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I agree with that prediction. I think GB finally gets back to the SB this year, but NE is too loaded. It helps to play in the weak AFC, too. If NE plays to form, I can't imagine any AFC team beating them in the playoffs. With the NFC, TB and Philly are good up and coming teams, I agree that Arizona should bounce back, and also I am not buying the Giants hype (o-line is too awful).
Not sure I agree about ROY of the year, though. Mixon could be good, but I think Dalvin Cook is more much poised and ready to be great from the start (assuming the Vikings o-line is improved at all).
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I agree with that prediction. I think GB finally gets back to the SB this year, but NE is too loaded. It helps to play in the weak AFC, too. If NE plays to form, I can't imagine any AFC team beating them in the playoffs. With the NFC, TB and Philly are good up and coming teams, I agree that Arizona should bounce back, and also I am not buying the Giants hype (o-line is too awful).
Not sure I agree about ROY of the year, though. Mixon could be good, but I think Dalvin Cook is more much poised and ready to be great from the start (assuming the Vikings o-line is improved at all).
During most of the offseason, I was thinking that the Giants were ready to make a super bowl run, but you're right, that o-line is dreadful.
I was honestly torn between Mixon and Cook. I think that the Bengals are gonna have a better season than the Vikings, so that's what swayed it for me, even considering how well Cook has looked. But I hope you're right.... me being a Ravens fan and all. Do not want to see the Bengals get back to the playoffs.
Speaking of the Ravens, I think that they will be one of the best defensive teams in the league, but having not seen Flacco throw, and with having a dreadful o-line of their own... just couldn't pull the trigger on them making it back to the playoffs.
The AFC west and NFC south should be fun to watch. All of those teams are pretty close together.
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Agreed. I fear a 6-10 season is coming for the Broncos. It is gonna be hard to finish above .500 in that division with such a shaky QB situation (and with Kubiak no longer there to coach Siemien up).
The Saints defense is supposedly gonna be improved (which we hear every year), but if it ever does, they are back in contention as a legit threat. What a shame to see so many of Brees' best years go to waste on a team with a dog shit defense.
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2731077-jacoby-brissett-reportedly-traded-to-colts-from-patriots-for-phillip-dorsett
I don't get this at all. Even under the circumstances WR isn't their most pressing need. Moreover, we've seen that you can't just drop a receiver, even an excellent one, into NE's system and have it work out. And he's not even a kick returner.
Eh, nice thing about being a Patriots fan is that I don't have to worry about these sorts of things. Bill knows what he's doing. It'll be fine.
It's even more baffling why Indianapolis is doing that deal. Brissett isn't ready yet, and he's a different QB than Luck... that shows a team in turmoil, if you're asking me.
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They were short a receiver so I guess they put it as a priority. Lots of trades with the new set up for getting to 53.
Also, WUT?!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x500q90/922/FdGi38.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pmFdGi38j)
That's insane. Especially given that it is Andy Reid. I can see a discussion if it's Timlin, Coughlin, Carroll, maybe even Harbaugh and Payton. Certainly Kubiak if he was still in the league. But Andy "I can't manage a clock, and I certainly can't win even a pretty big game, let alone THE Big Game" Reid? GTFO.
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NFCW
1. Arizona
2. Seattle (WC)
I am as far from a homer as they come, but c'mon man, AZ winning the West?
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Especially given that it is Andy Reid. I can see a discussion if it's Timlin, Coughlin, Carroll, maybe even Harbaugh and Payton. Certainly Kubiak if he was still in the league. But Andy "I can't manage a clock, and I certainly can't win even a pretty big game, let alone THE Big Game" Reid? GTFO.
*ignoring that stupid ESPN pic, which is obviously trolling*
Reid is widely acknowledged as one of the top coaches in football. Just about everyone puts him in the 2nd tier (Belichick being in the 1st by himself).
Can't win the big game? Just because he hasn't yet doesn't mean he can't.
Reid has 11 NFL playoff wins. I am pretty sure playoff games are classified as "pretty big games." But he can't win those? The facts say otherwise.
John Elway couldn't win the big game...until he did (twice).
LeBron James couldn't win a championship..until he did (thrice).
NFCW
1. Arizona
2. Seattle (WC)
I am as far from a homer as they come, but c'mon man, AZ winning the West?
I can see it. They are still loaded with talent, and even last year when they underachieved, they were two makable field goals away from being 9-7 instead of 7-8-1. And Seattle is not the juggernaut they were 3-4 years ago.
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Kev, that's the NFL Network pic.
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Okay, they suck, too. :lol :lol
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:lol
Heath Evens who is on the right tweeted this out right away. Damn funny. The guy on the left is Maurice Jones-Drew. He's the one that picked Reid because his record on week one and after byes is .722 winning %.
You think somebody would tell him that Belichick's percentage is .777.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/500xt575q90/922/83JpqN.png) (https://imageshack.com/f/pm83JpqNp)
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Especially given that it is Andy Reid. I can see a discussion if it's Timlin, Coughlin, Carroll, maybe even Harbaugh and Payton. Certainly Kubiak if he was still in the league. But Andy "I can't manage a clock, and I certainly can't win even a pretty big game, let alone THE Big Game" Reid? GTFO.
*ignoring that stupid ESPN pic, which is obviously trolling*
Reid is widely acknowledged as one of the top coaches in football. Just about everyone puts him in the 2nd tier (Belichick being in the 1st by himself).
Can't win the big game? Just because he hasn't yet doesn't mean he can't.
Reid has 11 NFL playoff wins. I am pretty sure playoff games are classified as "pretty big games." But he can't win those? The facts say otherwise.
John Elway couldn't win the big game...until he did (twice).
LeBron James couldn't win a championship..until he did (thrice).
There are different aspects of being a head coach. On the longterm side there's building a good team. There's keeping that team focused and ready to play. There's hiring the right staff. And then there's the gameday side, where you need the ability to make criticial decisions, often times with the clock stalking you, and also the ability to adopt, adapt and improve as the game changes. I think very highly of the long-term ability of Andy Reid. Better than most in the league, IMO. I think rather poorly of his gameday coaching, though. And when you're looking at a one game matchup, the latter is the only part that matters.
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Completely agree El Barto.
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Especially given that it is Andy Reid. I can see a discussion if it's Timlin, Coughlin, Carroll, maybe even Harbaugh and Payton. Certainly Kubiak if he was still in the league. But Andy "I can't manage a clock, and I certainly can't win even a pretty big game, let alone THE Big Game" Reid? GTFO.
*ignoring that stupid ESPN pic, which is obviously trolling*
Reid is widely acknowledged as one of the top coaches in football. Just about everyone puts him in the 2nd tier (Belichick being in the 1st by himself).
Can't win the big game? Just because he hasn't yet doesn't mean he can't.
Reid has 11 NFL playoff wins. I am pretty sure playoff games are classified as "pretty big games." But he can't win those? The facts say otherwise.
John Elway couldn't win the big game...until he did (twice).
LeBron James couldn't win a championship..until he did (thrice).
There are different aspects of being a head coach. On the longterm side there's building a good team. There's keeping that team focused and ready to play. There's hiring the right staff. And then there's the gameday side, where you need the ability to make criticial decisions, often times with the clock stalking you, and also the ability to adopt, adapt and improve as the game changes. I think very highly of the long-term ability of Andy Reid. Better than most in the league, IMO. I think rather poorly of his gameday coaching, though. And when you're looking at a one game matchup, the latter is the only part that matters.
EB, you just described Mike Tomlin as well. There's a few of those guys that are at the very edge of being spectacular coaches, but the game day decision making is something that most of them lack.
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There are different aspects of being a head coach. On the longterm side there's building a good team. There's keeping that team focused and ready to play. There's hiring the right staff. And then there's the gameday side, where you need the ability to make criticial decisions, often times with the clock stalking you, and also the ability to adopt, adapt and improve as the game changes. I think very highly of the long-term ability of Andy Reid. Better than most in the league, IMO. I think rather poorly of his gameday coaching, though. And when you're looking at a one game matchup, the latter is the only part that matters.
I agree with your main point, about there being different aspects of being a head coach, but Reid has won over 60% of his games in 18 years as an NFL head coach. The man knows what he is doing. That said, he could end up being another Marty Schottenheimer (great coach who never won a Super Bowl either).
If I had to rank the NFL head coaches right now, Belichick is obviously number 1, and then I'd put Reid in the next tier with Carroll and John Harbaugh (who I still think is one of the best, despite them not winning as much the last couple years).
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I've always looked as Belichick as hell, he's made plenty mistakes but it's always been aggressive mistakes knowing that he had to do it this way to win the game and it didn't work out.
There's always been part of Reids coaching that is what El Barto said. He brings structure to a team brings a winning attitude to team but in those moments he tightens up in certain moments.
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I am as far from a homer as they come, but c'mon man, AZ winning the West?
I can see it. They are still loaded with talent, and even last year when they underachieved, they were two makable field goals away from being 9-7 instead of 7-8-1. And Seattle is not the juggernaut they were 3-4 years ago.
So they go 9-7, and still come in second in the NFCW. They are not loaded with talent, and that old talent got a year older anyway. Seahawks don't have to be a juggernaut. 10-6 wins that division this year. They will win 11-12 games.
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I've always looked as Belichick as hell, he's made plenty mistakes but it's always been aggressive mistakes knowing that he had to do it this way to win the game and it didn't work out.
There's always been part of Reids coaching that is what El Barto said. He brings structure to a team brings a winning attitude to team but in those moments he tightens up in certain moments.
Some (too many) coaches coach not to lose; some coach to win.
Belichick coaches to win, as did Mike Shanahan, which is why I always loved him as a head coach.
I am as far from a homer as they come, but c'mon man, AZ winning the West?
I can see it. They are still loaded with talent, and even last year when they underachieved, they were two makable field goals away from being 9-7 instead of 7-8-1. And Seattle is not the juggernaut they were 3-4 years ago.
So they go 9-7, and still come in second in the NFCW. They are not loaded with talent, and that old talent got a year older anyway. Seahawks don't have to be a juggernaut. 10-6 wins that division this year. They will win 11-12 games.
We shall see. I am not saying I think Arizona will win the NFC West - Seattle is the favorite, as they should be - but I won't be the least bit surprised if the Cardinals return to being the team they were in 2015. Much of it, of course, depends on how well Carson Palmer still plays. He was starting to show his age a little last year, so we'll see.
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I've always looked as Belichick as hell, he's made plenty mistakes but it's always been aggressive mistakes knowing that he had to do it this way to win the game and it didn't work out.
There's always been part of Reids coaching that is what El Barto said. He brings structure to a team brings a winning attitude to team but in those moments he tightens up in certain moments.
Some (too many) coaches coach not to lose; some coach to win.
Belichick coaches to win, as did Mike Shanahan, which is why I always loved him as a head coach.
You can add Sean Payton to that list of coaches who coach to win. I prefer those coaches. Even if you fail in a situation like the ones that these coaches have faced, the risky call teaches a winning attitude to your team.
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There are different aspects of being a head coach. On the longterm side there's building a good team. There's keeping that team focused and ready to play. There's hiring the right staff. And then there's the gameday side, where you need the ability to make criticial decisions, often times with the clock stalking you, and also the ability to adopt, adapt and improve as the game changes. I think very highly of the long-term ability of Andy Reid. Better than most in the league, IMO. I think rather poorly of his gameday coaching, though. And when you're looking at a one game matchup, the latter is the only part that matters.
I agree with your main point, about there being different aspects of being a head coach, but Reid has won over 60% of his games in 18 years as an NFL head coach. The man knows what he is doing. That said, he could end up being another Marty Schottenheimer (great coach who never won a Super Bowl either).
If I had to rank the NFL head coaches right now, Belichick is obviously number 1, and then I'd put Reid in the next tier with Carroll and John Harbaugh (who I still think is one of the best, despite them not winning as much the last couple years).
I think Carroll might well be in the first tier, albeit way down the line from Bill. Reid and Harbaugh are certainly in the top of the second tier.
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Okay my American friends. I'm doing my work draft league on Thursday and I've done zip research this year. Have done NFL fantasy the past 3 years and I'm enjoying the game. Made it to the final last year but just missed out.
So, is there any players I need to get, or do I just follow the usual rankings list? Is the rankings in pretty good order or any smokies I should look at?
Cheers lads.
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I lived in Philly (though not at ALL an Eagles fan) during much of the Reid era, and I respectfully say you are over-evaluating his abilities.
I'm not at all saying "he sucks". He clearly doesn't. But that is not to say he's a great coach. He might have 11 playoff wins, but he has 12 playoff losses, and too many questionable series, like the one in the Super Bowl against the Pats. They were down by 10 with about 5 minutes, left, and sure, McNabb led them to a touchdown, but they didn't "no huddle" once, and burned almost four of those five and a half minutes in doing so. This is against a coach that actually LET the other team score a touchdown once, so he could get the ball back and wind down the clock.
He's won a ton of games, he knows how to establish a solid, consistent approach for his team, but in my opinion, he's not a top tier coach, and back to the discussion of Jim Kelly, if I'm starting an organization, I don't think he's the guy I pick.
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Based on how most teams played last year, Dallas has one of the toughest schedules in the league this year. They'll have to earn every win, including the Rams, 49ers, and Chargers.
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All eyes on the Tampa/Miami game. Word is that the game won't be played as scheduled in Miami. Either neutral site or later when both teams share a bye week.
Based on how most teams played last year, Dallas has one of the toughest schedules in the league this year. They'll have to earn every win, including the Rams, 49ers, and Chargers.
Dallas actually is tie with Philly for weakest SoS in their division. But part of that is due to the obvious fact that thr other division teams play Dallas twice.
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Based on how most teams played last year, Dallas has one of the toughest schedules in the league this year. They'll have to earn every win, including the Rams, 49ers, and Chargers.
Dallas actually is tie with Philly for weakest SoS in their division. But part of that is due to the obvious fact that thr other division teams play Dallas twice.
[/quote]
Well duh! The only exception would be if Dallas had to play themselves twice. :lol I'm talking about across the rest of the league. Division SoS is a bit diluted for obvious reasons.
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Based on how most teams played last year, Dallas has one of the toughest schedules in the league this year. They'll have to earn every win, including the Rams, 49ers, and Chargers.
Dallas actually is tie with Philly for weakest SoS in their division. But part of that is due to the obvious fact that thr other division teams play Dallas twice.
Well duh! The only exception would be if Dallas had to play themselves twice. :lol I'm talking about across the rest of the league. Division SoS is a bit diluted for obvious reasons.
[/quote]
I was talking league wide SOS. Cowboys are tied for 10th most difficult with Philly. both Washington and N.Y. have harder schedules.
https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/234722/2017-nfl-strength-of-schedule
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How does the pre season (last year's) SOS typically compare to the ACTUAL SOS? Has anyone ever looked at that?
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Okay my American friends. I'm doing my work draft league on Thursday and I've done zip research this year. Have done NFL fantasy the past 3 years and I'm enjoying the game. Made it to the final last year but just missed out.
So, is there any players I need to get, or do I just follow the usual rankings list? Is the rankings in pretty good order or any smokies I should look at?
Cheers lads.
There is a Fantasy Football thread around here somewhere. Might be better to post in there, since some throw fits about FF talk in the main NFL thread. :)
My list of players to get, avoid, etc. would be like three pages long. :lol :lol
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Okay my American friends. I'm doing my work draft league on Thursday and I've done zip research this year. Have done NFL fantasy the past 3 years and I'm enjoying the game. Made it to the final last year but just missed out.
So, is there any players I need to get, or do I just follow the usual rankings list? Is the rankings in pretty good order or any smokies I should look at?
Cheers lads.
There is a Fantasy Football thread around here somewhere. Might be better to post in there, since some throw fits about FF talk in the main NFL thread. :)
My list of players to get, avoid, etc. would be like three pages long. :lol :lol
Cheers mate. haha, I guess not being American I forget how seriously some people take this game.
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Based on how most teams played last year, Dallas has one of the toughest schedules in the league this year. They'll have to earn every win, including the Rams, 49ers, and Chargers.
Dallas actually is tie with Philly for weakest SoS in their division. But part of that is due to the obvious fact that thr other division teams play Dallas twice.
Well duh! The only exception would be if Dallas had to play themselves twice. :lol I'm talking about across the rest of the league. Division SoS is a bit diluted for obvious reasons.
I was talking league wide SOS. Cowboys are tied for 10th most difficult with Philly. both Washington and N.Y. have harder schedules.
https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/234722/2017-nfl-strength-of-schedule
[/quote]
Yeah, and my original post said "one of the toughest schedules" not THE toughest. Don't know what you're trying to prove except your fascination with being a nit picky statistician. Doesn't interest me.
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How does the pre season (last year's) SOS typically compare to the ACTUAL SOS? Has anyone ever looked at that?
It usually doesn't. Teams change too much from season to season to have a preseason SoS mean anything IMO.
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Watching Do Your Job 2. Goosebumps.
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Watching Do Your Job 2. Goosebumps.
It's amazing how freaking smart and thorough that staff is
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Watching Do Your Job 2. Goosebumps.
It's amazing how freaking smart and thorough that staff is
It's great to see how much preparation they put into a gameplan.
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I remember Belichick saying in "A Football Life" episode that no one on that team is more prepared than Tom Brady. In fact, Belichick has a hard time keeping up when it comes to meetings with TB.
I can see TB eventually becoming the coach for the Pats some day.
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I don't think he'll coach. All his side projects that now just coming to fruition is about his healthy way of life and it's building his brand. This year Gronk joined in on what he was doing so we'll see how that works out.
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I've always assumed they're keeping McDaniels around as the heir apparent. Patricia might be a better choice. Brady never struck me as a head coaching kind of guy, despite his knowledge of the game. He just doesn't seem to have that sort of mindset.
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Great players rarely end up being great coaches. The former players who end up being good coaches were often times marginal-at-best NFL players.
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Yup. Man I missed the pregame shows.
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Fuck Marky Mark. Literally anybody other than Goodell or Trump woulda made a better host for this shit.
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Falcons fans...don't watch.
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The Patriots had a felon do this pre-game jerk-off fest? :P
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"Unprecedented run of success"? Marky Mark, stick to being a shitty actor and blinding helpless victims in unprovoked assault and batteries cuz the Pats have accomplished nothing Lombardi's Packers haven't.
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Thsts the way you start a game.
The Patriots had a felon do this pre-game jerk-off fest? :P
How about a celebrity fan who left the SB last year before the comeback. Fair weather.....
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Big stop by KC.
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Kareem Hunt looks great. Nice rebound from that early fumble.
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looks like the team in the coaching staff called him down and got his head back in the game. Yeah, he was excellent.
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He almost lost a second one though.
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Kareem Hunt looks great. Nice rebound from that early fumble.
Rebounds were always Kareem's thing.
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Sky hooks. :lol
Nice drive again by the Pats. KC's D will get tired.
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Kareem Hunt looks great. Nice rebound from that early fumble.
Rebounds were always Kareem's thing.
:lol :lol :lol
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Alex Smith just sacked himself. :rollin :rollin
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Good touchdown by KC going to half and they get the ball back after halftime.
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Brady looks old tonight. Some dreadful ducks coming out of his arm. Just imagine if he was getting hit.
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Somebody missed assignment there.
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But, but, Belichick always takes away the opponent's best player. :lol :lol :lol
What a BS narrative.
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Brady looks old tonight. Some dreadful ducks coming out of his arm. Just imagine if he was getting hit.
I think it's him being unsure of his new receivers. It's going to take time.
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But, but, Belichick always takes away the opponent's best player. :lol :lol :lol
What a BS narrative.
That's not I'm Belichick that's on the players.
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Is role reversal now with Patriots defense getting tied being on the field too long.
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But, but, Belichick always takes away the opponent's best player. :lol :lol :lol
What a BS narrative.
That's not I'm Belichick that's on the players.
It's still a BS narrative. Belichick is the best ever, regardless.
Brady looks old tonight. Some dreadful ducks coming out of his arm. Just imagine if he was getting hit.
I think it's him being unsure of his new receivers. It's going to take time.
I think that is part of it, but missing receivers who aren't in the right spot is different than throwing balls that look like wounded ducks. Remember some of those passes Peyton threw his last year or two? That is what some of these throws look like.
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We know why Peyton was throwing like that. 4 neck surgery's. Brady's not going to lose it that fast like that.
Now that leg roll on Hightower that's bad.
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By the way Kev, that fourth-and-one call by Belichick me really hurt this team and chance to win. take the points early on.
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We know why Peyton was throwing like that. 4 neck surgery's. Brady's not going to lose it that fast like that.
Just about every player does. Father Time does not slowly take you down; he tip toes up and clobbers you when you least expect it.
Note: I am not saying that that is what is happening now. I am just saying, Brady looks old in this game.
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I get you. Just from my perspective I see Brady tentative with new receivers, and also him having to move a little bit in the pocket and rushing passes because they are getting pressure with four guys.
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Kev, I know you'll like this. :lol
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/350x700q90/924/I6ylkC.png) (https://imageshack.com/f/poI6ylkCp)
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lol at the Chiefs trying to get a cheap 1st down via offsides on 4 and 1 that was never gonna happen. At least they didn't waste a timeout like the probably 20-25 Sean Payton's wasted not during his entire tenure with the Saints but probably from the 6+ seasons alone since the one time it ever worked for him against the Bengals late in the 2010 season.
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Doesn't look good for the Pats.
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I hate the Chiefs, but this is fun.
On my auction FF team, two of my three starting RBs are Gillislee and Hunt. :coolio :hat
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Patriots can rush the ball for 1 yard.
"Should have run a pass play," Darrell Bevell.
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Game over. KC's offense is the star of this game.
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Actually add Kansas City's defense of line they've been amazing rushing four getting pressure.
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Patriots- worst record in the NFL!
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See what happens when Roger Goodell goes to Foxboro to watch a game? :biggrin: :lol :lol
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:lol
The difference looks putrid and then they lose their best player not good. Add that now they've lost three starting receivers makes Brady look really tentative and unsure.
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Probably should change the title of the thread.
Saw a note the other day, the best QB Brady has ever had to play against in his own division is Chad Pennington who retired like 10 years ago. What a horrible division.
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What a great game to start the season! And as a Chiefs fan it doesn't get much better than that.
Chiefs
1. Holy crap the offense was great and Alex Smith looked fantastic. Hopefully they can keep that up.
2. Losing Berry is devastating. What is up with all of the season ending non-contact injuries.
3. As good as the offense is, the defense won that game on those 4th down stops. That game was on the verge a couple of time of getting out hand and the defense stood up every time.
4. Penalties were awful. Over a hundred yards. Game should not have been as close as it was.
Patriots
1. Brady looked off but I think that was the Chiefs pressure and coverage.
2. Looks like the Patriots who supposedly had the best off season put too much focus on the offense rather than replacing the defensive talent they let walk or traded. If an ancient Hightower goes down and your defense goes on to get shredded by Alex Smith you have a big problem.
Analysts
1. Good lord did they have to keep sucking on the Patirots dong the whole game? It wasn't until the 3rd quarter that they started giving credit to the Chiefs.
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But, but, Belichick always takes away the opponent's best player. :lol :lol :lol
What a BS narrative.
Right. One game, with a patchwork defense (losing Hightower is not a small deal at all) and all of a sudden the narrative is wrong? There is 30 years of evidence saying you're wrong, and about 50 minutes saying you're right. I'll stick with the narrative.
Brady did look off, but he's going to have to find it in the next 7 days, because he needs 30 points a game to win with that defense. McCourty, Butler and Gilmore can only do so much. They have no pass rush whatsoever, and no big play linebacker, two things that are NECESSITIES in a Belichick/Patricia defense.
That entire second half was a study in "what defense can I call with the players I have"? The answer? "Nothing that is going to keep points off the board". I may have this wrong, but I thought I saw two 70-yard pass plays for a touchdown, and two 70-yard runs... that's not good.
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Intersting factoid: No opponent has scored as many points as the Chiefs did in Foxborough since Dan Marino and the Dolphins won, 44-24, on Oct. 21, 1984.
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For all the talk about NE's offense the fact is that for much of the first half they were playing a very balanced game and moving the ball at will against a stout defense. This will work itself out. The problem is that the Chiefs can say the same thing against a NE D that got thoroughly exploited. This will be a harder thing to work out. In the end I'm not worried about the loss. The offense will settle in, and I think they'll find the right combinations on D. As I recall they went 2-2 to start 2014, getting beaten far worse by KC, before bringing it all together.
The broadcast last night was worse than NE's defense. That was terrible for a MNF game. There were some big plays that never got replays. They'd have fake commercial breaks where they'd sit and gab about nothing during changes of possession and then cut back when nobody's around. When they did have replays they'd often be focusing on the wrong part of the play. All around bad show. And a bad show that still took 3:45 to play out.
By the way Kev, that fourth-and-one call by Belichick me really hurt this team and chance to win. take the points early on.
It was a great call before the referees stopped the game for a pointless measurement. It was a full yard short and the Pats are clearly trying to catch KC unprepared, as is their right. There was no reason to stop for the measurement there and give KC time to regroup and plan for it. After that I agree NE should have kicked the field goal, but the stoppage was bullshit.
There was also a pretty bogus PI call in the end zone on KC's subsequent drive. People don't generally point out bad calls that go against NE around here, so I will.
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...meanwhile I am loving the fact I drafted Hunt in one of my fantasy leagues. Thanks for the (4$) points last night bro :tup Happened to have Gillislee in my other one for (22.50) pts there so it was an all around good night for me :biggrin:
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For all the talk about NE's offense the fact is that for much of the first half they were playing a very balanced game and moving the ball at will against a stout defense. This will work itself out. The problem is that the Chiefs can say the same thing against a NE D that got thoroughly exploited. This will be a harder thing to work out. In the end I'm not worried about the loss. The offense will settle in, and I think they'll find the right combinations on D. As I recall they went 2-2 to start 2014, getting beaten far worse by KC, before bringing it all together.
The broadcast last night was worse than NE's defense. That was terrible for a MNF game. There were some big plays that never got replays. They'd have fake commercial breaks where they'd sit and gab about nothing during changes of possession and then cut back when nobody's around. When they did have replays they'd often be focusing on the wrong part of the play. All around bad show. And a bad show that still took 3:45 to play out.
Just me, or did Al Michaels make a lot of silly mistakes in that game? Once, Gimli (what the f--- is his name?) ran it to the five and Michaels said "Down to the 2 yard line"... it wasn't even that he was off by five or ten (which is excusable; you confuse the "big lines") but something in between. Before that, on the Gronk TD that was called back, the Pats got a free play because of an offsides, and after the reversal, Michaels made a big production about how it's now fourth down, but the "free play" means they don't lose the down.
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KC made a hell of a statement last night outscoring the Pats 35-10 on opening night in Foxborough. They did their job! :lol
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For all the talk about NE's offense the fact is that for much of the first half they were playing a very balanced game and moving the ball at will against a stout defense. This will work itself out. The problem is that the Chiefs can say the same thing against a NE D that got thoroughly exploited. This will be a harder thing to work out. In the end I'm not worried about the loss. The offense will settle in, and I think they'll find the right combinations on D. As I recall they went 2-2 to start 2014, getting beaten far worse by KC, before bringing it all together.
The broadcast last night was worse than NE's defense. That was terrible for a MNF game. There were some big plays that never got replays. They'd have fake commercial breaks where they'd sit and gab about nothing during changes of possession and then cut back when nobody's around. When they did have replays they'd often be focusing on the wrong part of the play. All around bad show. And a bad show that still took 3:45 to play out.
Just me, or did Al Michaels make a lot of silly mistakes in that game? Once, Gimli (what the f--- is his name?) ran it to the five and Michaels said "Down to the 2 yard line"... it wasn't even that he was off by five or ten (which is excusable; you confuse the "big lines") but something in between. Before that, on the Gronk TD that was called back, the Pats got a free play because of an offsides, and after the reversal, Michaels made a big production about how it's now fourth down, but the "free play" means they don't lose the down.
100% with you Stadler and Barto about the broadcast, with the bolded being the glaring things I recall.
And Colinsworth and Michaels seemed to think the game could have gone the other way, and NE could have blown out KC especially in the first quarter. Outside of the fumble, and *so* many penalties, KC owned that game. I never had the feeling of NE owning anything at any point in the game. KC's offense marched up and down the field without much resistance. And the defense held things down. In fact, w/o the penalties, it would have been even worse.
Hats of to KC and any fans here- tough team this year so far. :tup Big game and everything around it, and massive effort.
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Thsts the way you start a game.
The Patriots had a felon do this pre-game jerk-off fest? :P
How about a celebrity fan who left the SB last year before the comeback. Fair weather.....
I thought it was funny that Rodney Harrison left the SB early too. :lol
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:lol
The difference looks putrid and then they lose their best player not good. Add that now they've lost three starting receivers makes Brady look really tentative and unsure.
Eh, Amendola and Mitchell are not real starting receivers; that is overstating it a bit. They still scored 27 points (they averaged 30 points a game with Brady last year, and most of those games were not against a D as good as KC's).
There was also a pretty bogus PI call in the end zone on KC's subsequent drive. People don't generally point out bad calls that go against NE around here, so I will.
Do you mean the play where Butler ran into the WR while not looking for the ball and before the ball got there? That was about an easy a PI call as there is.
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Let me restate. 3 of the 5 receivers are now out. That's bad. Do not count Slater who was out. He's special teams mostly.
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Speaking of his weapons, Gronk looked...slow. I wonder if he is still making his way back or if injuries have wore him down to where he will never be GRONK again.
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He got hurt on the touchdown that was called back. He was not the same after that, and could be seen kind of limping. He's a glass giant.
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He got hurt on the touchdown that was called back. He was not the same after that, and could be seen kind of limping. He's a glass giant.
He didn't look right on the first play he didn't catch a pass. Kev' point is spot on, hopefully it is making his way back.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZnVGe-9kxA
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Talk is he has the wind knocked out of him. He was doubled all night. Smart move.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeXft_zIMAAAUnk.jpg)
:metal :metal
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My body is ready for REDZONE
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Lol Browns :lol
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Needless to say I'm really impressed with the Ravens thus far!
In other news, Savage held off Watson for a little bit more than 1/2 a game.
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Chicago had four chances at a touchdown to win it. I can't believe they didn't score.
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Chicago had four chances at a touchdown to win it. I can't believe they didn't score.
Mike Glennon is their QB. I can believe it. :lol :lol
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Well, not on those sets of downs except the sack on 4th down.
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Carson Palmer looks officially done. So much for Arizona bouncing back this year.
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I've got to say the Browns look pretty good today even though they lost.
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Lol Browns :lol
Was almost LOL Pittsburgh
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In other news, Savage held off Watson for a little bit more than 1/2 a game.
I don't get this. If the leash is that short, why not just give all the reps to the rookie? I really don't think Bill O'Brien has a clue when it comes to QBs.
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Lol Browns :lol
Was almost LOL Pittsburgh
Well, I posted that after their first series of the year resulted in a blocked punt for a TD, the most Browns thing ever. They played very well after that, and the Steelers played very poorly but still won so I'll take it.
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In other news, Savage held off Watson for a little bit more than 1/2 a game.
I don't get this. If the leash is that short, why not just give all the reps to the rookie? I really don't think Bill O'Brien has a clue when it comes to QBs.
I agree. Having to change quarterbacks in the first game of the season should be your ass as a head coach.
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Gusty win by GB. They earned that one.
Seattle D looking very nasty again.
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Lol Browns :lol
Was almost LOL Pittsburgh
Well, I posted that after their first series of the year resulted in a blocked punt for a TD, the most Browns thing ever. They played very well after that, and the Steelers played very poorly but still won so I'll take it.
In many aspects, the Steelers looked like a team that wasn't ready to begin the regular season. I noticed that there was minimal playing time for many of the starters at "skill" positions on the offense in the pre-season games, and it showed today. Couple that with the play calling early in the game, and it was a recipe for disaster. I'm not sure that Ben threw the ball beyond 5 yards past the line of scrimmage until very late in the first half. I'd never suggest that they have him heave the ball deep down field on a consistent basis, but the game plan was far from effective. Cleveland crowded the line of scrimmage for a great deal of the day, and for much of the game they were never challenged. With the speed on the Steeler's roster that should hardly ever be the case.
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Ravens shut out an opponent on the road for the third time. First time, they got Pittsburgh 16-0 in 2000, which was their first Championship season. Second time, they wrecked Tampa Bay 27-0 in 2006 en route to a 13-3 record and their first and only first round bye.
Not sure what the third shutout will lead to, but I'm excited now that I've seen the team play a meaningful game.
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It seems like many were picking the Bengals to get back to the playoffs, and while week 1 is always kinda weird, I don't get it. Fortunately for them, they get the hapless Texans next week. :lol
Tonight is showing why I thought the Giants were overrated. Yeah, their D is great, but their o-line is total trash, and without OBJ, the entire offense is trash. Eli is shitty.
Oh, and LOL at Los Angeles. Opening day and the Rams apparently had an atrocious turn-out. Way to go, NFL. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJZKxlJXkAcaopq.jpg:large)
Damn, that's ugly. I doubt it's 20%. Nobody would expect them to sell 93k+, but cracking 20k would have been nice.
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And the Rams won 46-9!!! :lol
Marshawn Lynch mowing down a 300 lb lineman. Dat's my dude. Beast Mode is back!
https://a.video.nfl.com/films/vodzilla/77005/Marshawn_Lynch_runs_through_Jurrell_Case-RX1Ba2Bn-20170910_125752607_5000k.mp4
And Seahawks :huh:
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJZKxlJXkAcaopq.jpg:large)
Damn, that's ugly. I doubt it's 20%. Nobody would expect them to sell 93k+, but cracking 20k would have been nice.
And somehow, the NFL feels that LA deserves TWO teams. #nfllogic
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Marshawn Lynch mowing down a 300 lb lineman. Dat's my dude. Beast Mode is back!
https://a.video.nfl.com/films/vodzilla/77005/Marshawn_Lynch_runs_through_Jurrell_Case-RX1Ba2Bn-20170910_125752607_5000k.mp4
He looked mostly like his old self. And it looks like they will keep him fresh by using a lot of Washington and Richard in the backfield as well. That offense is gonna put up some major numbers this year.
And Seahawks :huh:
Like I said yesterday, their D looks back to being scary good (they held Aaron Rodgers scoreless for a half!!), but their offense is gonna be the question mark for them, largely because their offensive line is not good at all. Russell Wilson is gonna be running for his life all season again.
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I fell asleep at halftime during the Giants game, damn they look bad and all the same problems as last year with that oline :angry:
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Tonight is showing why I thought the Giants were overrated. Yeah, their D is great, but their o-line is total trash, and without OBJ, the entire offense is trash. Eli is shitty.
He's elite. :)
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Lol Browns :lol
Was almost LOL Pittsburgh
Well, I posted that after their first series of the year resulted in a blocked punt for a TD, the most Browns thing ever. They played very well after that, and the Steelers played very poorly but still won so I'll take it.
In many aspects, the Steelers looked like a team that wasn't ready to begin the regular season. I noticed that there was minimal playing time for many of the starters at "skill" positions on the offense in the pre-season games, and it showed today. Couple that with the play calling early in the game, and it was a recipe for disaster. I'm not sure that Ben threw the ball beyond 5 yards past the line of scrimmage until very late in the first half. I'd never suggest that they have him heave the ball deep down field on a consistent basis, but the game plan was far from effective. Cleveland crowded the line of scrimmage for a great deal of the day, and for much of the game they were never challenged. With the speed on the Steeler's roster that should hardly ever be the case.
That seems like a fair assessment, I really hope this Steelers offense can put it together, if they do, it will be fun to watch.
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Is it me or did yesterday feel like an extension of the pre-season? :lol So many teams just looked like they weren't ready for the regular season...
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^^^ I think that's the reality of the NFL these days. If I'm the owners, I seriously think about getting rid of the preseason. Why anyone would play a Beckham, Jr., or Gronk, or Brady in the pre-season is beyond me, so you get this "save them for the regular season" mentality. BUT, that means the first week is like the week we just saw, and I think, end of the day, you're going to have MORE injuries because people just aren't ready for the full contact. You just can't simulate some of the hits that you see in a regular NFL game.
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Tonight is showing why I thought the Giants were overrated. Yeah, their D is great, but their o-line is total trash, and without OBJ, the entire offense is trash. Eli is shitty.
He's elite. :)
:lol
Jim Plunkett was elite too.
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Is it me or did yesterday feel like an extension of the pre-season? :lol So many teams just looked like they weren't ready for the regular season...
It's season opener jitters for a lot of teams. Happens every year. Some recover, some don't.
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Is it me or did yesterday feel like an extension of the pre-season? :lol So many teams just looked like they weren't ready for the regular season...
^^^ I think that's the reality of the NFL these days. If I'm the owners, I seriously think about getting rid of the preseason. Why anyone would play a Beckham, Jr., or Gronk, or Brady in the pre-season is beyond me, so you get this "save them for the regular season" mentality. BUT, that means the first week is like the week we just saw, and I think, end of the day, you're going to have MORE injuries because people just aren't ready for the full contact. You just can't simulate some of the hits that you see in a regular NFL game.
Yea I agree with this. A lot of teams looked rusty and it makes sense. I'd say just make the pre-season 2 games. One to test players for cuts and one more like a legit warm up. 4 games is too much. No big time player is worth that risk.
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^^^ I think that's the reality of the NFL these days. If I'm the owners, I seriously think about getting rid of the preseason. Why anyone would play a Beckham, Jr., or Gronk, or Brady in the pre-season is beyond me, so you get this "save them for the regular season" mentality. BUT, that means the first week is like the week we just saw, and I think, end of the day, you're going to have MORE injuries because people just aren't ready for the full contact. You just can't simulate some of the hits that you see in a regular NFL game.
I agree, but no owner is going to do that. They sell tickets and get tv money for pre-season games, and they don't have to pay the players. They are making out on those games.
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I was a season ticket holder for the Pats from 1986 (as an 18 year old) until the 2012 season. I bitched that the pre season games should be less and take the difference and add it to the regular season games. It's easier to get rid of the regular season games. They finally went that way after I gave up the tickets.
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How much longer is Sean Payton going to coast off of that one Super Bowl win? Will a 4th consecutive 7-9 season finally make some realize that he isn't that great of a head coach? What a waste of Drew Brees' latter years.
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I guess I'll be the one to say it. I really miss Chris Berman right now.
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Re: pre-season
They do serve a very important purpose IMO....they give coaches a chance to see what new draft picks and 2nd/3rd stringers are going to do in "real game" situations and not just playing against their teammates.
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Holy crap I knew the Four-Letter network gave that fat windbag a microphone but I didn't think they were going to let him call a whole game!
Poor showing by the Seahawks. We got SBXL'ed on a couple calls, but they didn't deserve to win. Most of us had this chalked up as a loss anyway, and with the Cardinals not looking threatening, the NFCW still looks like it's ours to lose.
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Holy crap I knew the Four-Letter network gave that fat windbag a microphone but I didn't think they were going to let him call a whole game!
If you're talking about Ryan, he didn't bug me much. My problem was with the chick that sounded like a dude. I generally don't care who the color person is, but the play by play guy/gal needs to sound normal. That was just strange as fuck. Until they showed her at halftime I thought they'd brought in a jockey to call the game.
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^^^ What game are you talking about? I didn't watch much football this week except for the Pats, and even that, I missed a chunk of the start of the second half. Gisele was being high maintenance.
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That was just a one time thing Barto. When I saw her and Ryan before the game started, I said TG this is a one time thing. I didn't watch most of the game anyway.
I guess I'll be the one to say it. I really miss Chris Berman right now.
:rollin
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^^^ What game are you talking about? I didn't watch much football this week except for the Pats, and even that, I missed a chunk of the start of the second half. Gisele was being high maintenance.
The late MNF game. https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/12/16294056/sergio-dipp-rex-ryan-beth-mowins-espn-mnf
I was only able to stomach about 20 minutes total of the commentary, but where she didn't seem knowledgeable she made up for it by asking reasonable questions. I honestly found it refreshing to hear her ask Rex Ryan "why is that?" a couple of times. The problem is that they picked a woman who spoke like a man. Not really the voice, though she is somewhat husky voiced, but in her inflections and mannerisms. Like I said, I thought it was just a really tiny guy at first. Perhaps it's just the need to sound excited during boring moments, but I found it highly annoying.
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Holy crap I knew the Four-Letter network gave that fat windbag a microphone but I didn't think they were going to let him call a whole game!
If you're talking about Ryan, he didn't bug me much. My problem was with the chick that sounded like a dude. I generally don't care who the color person is, but the play by play guy/gal needs to sound normal. That was just strange as fuck. Until they showed her at halftime I thought they'd brought in a jockey to call the game.
She has been doing college football games for awhile on ESPN and I've never been able to enjoy her commentary, she isn't bad, but it's her voice like you say.
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It seems like many were picking the Bengals to get back to the playoffs, and while week 1 is always kinda weird, I don't get it. Fortunately for them, they get the hapless Texans next week. :lol
Tonight is showing why I thought the Giants were overrated. Yeah, their D is great, but their o-line is total trash, and without OBJ, the entire offense is trash. Eli is shitty.
Oh, and LOL at Los Angeles. Opening day and the Rams apparently had an atrocious turn-out. Way to go, NFL. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Gate was 60k. It's a 100k seat stadium. We were there and did our part! :P Matter of fact, I saw some tweets from other teams that showed pics of lots of empty seats around the league Something else, Saturday saw 175,000 fans for USC and UCLA, Sunday had 50k at the Dodgers game at the same time as the Rams. Add to that it was hotter than HELL!!!! 95 degrees. We were under the press box in the shade just cringing looking at the peeps roasting in the Sunny seats. At the end of the day we were 4-12 last year and had the top 5 attendance. More wins like Sunday's will fill seats for sure!
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This is what 91,000 fans looks like. What we saw Sunday was <20k. If the heat (95???) and baseball kept them away then so be it. Not trying to rag on the Los Angelish. It wasn't close to the 60k, though.
(https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/_bCzjPoC9jYhTEdLg9tetKV3tCY=/950x534/filters:quality(90)/https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F217064%2FGettyImages-607640802.jpg)
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60k was probably tickets sold, not actual attendance.
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This is what 91,000 fans looks like. What we saw Sunday was <20k. If the heat (95???) and baseball kept them away then so be it. Not trying to rag on the Los Angelish. It wasn't close to the 60k, though.
(https://i.amz.mshcdn.com/_bCzjPoC9jYhTEdLg9tetKV3tCY=/950x534/filters:quality(90)/https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fuploads%2Fcard%2Fimage%2F217064%2FGettyImages-607640802.jpg)
No WAY it was less than 20k Maybe 50k, yeah 60k was tix sold. And yeah, seems like everyone wants to jab at us Angelinos...whatever. Especially the talking and wanna be talking heads.
Levi Stadium didn't look too packed either...LOL
https://twitter.com/annkillion/status/907002090421084162/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnfl%2F2017%2F09%2F10%2F49ers-rams-open-seasons-empty-stadiums-photos
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I'm honestly not trying to rag on anybody. I hope the Rams are successful in LA, and the new stadium will no doubt improve their attendance a bit. I just think that expecting the Rams to be more successful than the last few attempts at football in LA, while adding a second team into the mix, is very unrealistic. It's really more of a jab at the NFL than Los Angelists.
And it's a shame we'll never know the actual attendance numbers. That seems like a perfect "guess the number of jellybeans" type of game. Personally, I think that's 20-25% full.
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I'd guess 30k, it's hard to tell from that picture.
Definitely not a shot at you, Greg, or the Rams in general. It just looks like a poor showing regardless. There is a lot going on in LA, no doubt. But it is strange why the NFL thought this was going to be a market for two teams given the history. Maybe some success will help.
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And yeah, seems like everyone wants to jab at us Angelinos...whatever.
I know/admit that I called you guys (Angelinos) fickle when it comes to the NFL earlier in this thread, but I hope that you didn't think that it was meant as a jab/insult. You have to admit that your city is unlike any other place on the earth. The options for entertainment, or ways to spend your free time is probably endless compared to most other NFL cities. As a comparison, the closest NFL city to me is Cleveland. The two favorite pass-times of most people in my area during the NFL season is either being a Browns fan, or freezing your balls off when the wind comes in off of Lake Erie. Needless to say, the choices are limited.
Nobody in their right mind would expect you folks to accept a franchise that isn't successful.
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Trevor Siemian is better than most think. He is not a world beater, but he is good enough. Good win for the Broncos last night. :tup :tup
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Potential for some great games today!
BRING ON FOOTBALL!!!!
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I'm not sure I've ever seen a Super Bowl winning coach be this terrible for this long and keep his job. Please end this already.
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Man, I like Romo a lot better as a quarterback than an announcer. Nonstop doom and gloom.
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And yeah, seems like everyone wants to jab at us Angelinos...whatever.
I know/admit that I called you guys (Angelinos) fickle when it comes to the NFL earlier in this thread, but I hope that you didn't think that it was meant as a jab/insult. You have to admit that your city is unlike any other place on the earth. The options for entertainment, or ways to spend your free time is probably endless compared to most other NFL cities. As a comparison, the closest NFL city to me is Cleveland. The two favorite pass-times of most people in my area during the NFL season is either being a Browns fan, or freezing your balls off when the wind comes in off of Lake Erie. Needless to say, the choices are limited.
Nobody in their right mind would expect you folks to accept a franchise that isn't successful.
New York is similar to LA in terms of options for entertainment yet even when they suck, the Jets and Giants never fail to draw a crowd. Not every city is a football town though and there's nothing wrong with that. It's a similar thing to Atlanta with hockey. They had two different instances where an NHL team relocated to Atlanta and not long after left for another city. Some sports don't work in certain places.
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Man, I like Romo a lot better as a quarterback than an announcer. Nonstop doom and gloom.
Hmmm, I like him so far. And he will get better.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a Super Bowl winning coach be this terrible for this long and keep his job. Please end this already.
He is easily the worst head coach to ever win a Super Bowl. He's a glorified OC.
Potential for some great games today!
BRING ON FOOTBALL!!!!
Philly/KC was a fun game to watch. Lots of great D!
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Yanda done for the year. This sucks...
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Did you guy read about Derek Carr audibling at the 1 yard line? He yelled out Seattle and didn't hand off to Marshawn Lynch?!😂
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I though the Raiders were on a bye...oops, playing the Jets. Same thing. :lol :lol
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The announced attendance at the Dolphins/Chargers game in LA was 25,381. :lol :lol
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The announced attendance at the Dolphins/Chargers game in LA was 25,381. :lol :lol
So only 1,619 short of capacity? That's not so bad.
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I'm not sure I've ever seen a Super Bowl winning coach be this terrible for this long and keep his job. Please end this already.
He is easily the worst head coach to ever win a Super Bowl. He's a glorified OC.
Off the top of my head; uh Brian Billick? And he was an OC. :lol
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The announced attendance at the Dolphins/Chargers game in LA was 25,381. :lol :lol
So only 1,619 short of capacity? That's not so bad.
Yeah, considering they're playing out in the Styx and they're competing against the Rams, who's attendance looks much better than last week, that's not so terrible. Still a dipshit decision to move teams to LA, but this week wasn't a complete disaster.
Damn fine pass from the Ram's punter. I'm used to seeing ducks from those guys. And it seems the boy is now 8/13, 131 1-0 on his career.
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Bizarre ending to the Chargers game.
Lol Cowboys and almost Lol Seahawks.
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Denver's D is a beast. So fast to close. Their O is 9/12 on 3rd downs and that is impressive.
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Kicking Dallas' ass is a lot of fun. :metal :metal :metal
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Seattle looks pathetic for the 2nd week in a row.
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Seattle looks pathetic for the 2nd week in a row.
Couldn't happen to a nicer couple of guys (Sherman and Bennett)......
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Seattle reminds me of Pittsburgh thus far: neither have looked good at all, but both have such a history of winning in the 21st century that many will overrate both. Neither will be near the top when I bring back the power rankings this week. :hat
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Can the Saints get the rare 33rd spot?
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I will consider it. :biggrin: :lol
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Seattle reminds me of Pittsburgh thus far: neither have looked good at all, but both have such a history of winning in the 21st century that many will overrate both. Neither will be near the top when I bring back the power rankings this week. :hat
Our endless love affair continues. :natalieportman:
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Haha. In the meantime, GB's D is still total trash. They looked good last week, but that was more about how awful Seattle's o-ine is.
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I was going to brag about the Raiders, but they only played the Jets, so.....
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What do y'all think would spark a bigger outcry about the NFL being rigged?
1. The Browns winning consecutive Super Bowls?
2. A week where every single NFL game ended in a tie?
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Todd Haley continues to be a terrible OC. He's got Bell, Brown, Bryant etc but there's no feinting or misdirection, it's all about having to win one-on-one matchups, he can't scheme guys open. I drool thinking of what Josh McDaniels could do with these dynamic playmakers. :-\
Already looking forward to Pit-Bal Week 4. Raven's D is legit, should be a great game.
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Todd Haley continues to be a terrible OC. He's got Bell, Brown, Bryant etc but there's no feinting or misdirection, it's all about having to win one-on-one matchups, he can't scheme guys open. I drool thinking of what Josh McDaniels could do with these dynamic playmakers. :-\
Already looking forward to Pit-Bal Week 4. Raven's D is legit, should be a great game.
Don't get me started on Haley. Dude tries to out think himself half the time.
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Good to see the Eagles and Cowboys losing yesterday, gives the Giants a great opportunity tonight, except I have no faith in them being able to move the ball if Odell isn't playing.
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J E T S SUCK SUCK SUCK.
I hate football season these days.
Signed,
A JETS fan so fed up with his team it is not even funny.
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I said this last year and it's true again this year. The AFC West is the best division top to bottom.
KC- 2-0
Denver- 2-0
Oak- 2-0
SD- 0-2 off of two missed field goals.
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He that sups with the devil must have a long spoon.
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article173888536.html
Goodell was reportedly close to an agreement on a five-year extension last month. But that was before an angry Jones, an unofficial seventh member of the NFL’s six-man compensation committee, interjected himself. Jones referred to himself as an “ombudsman” to the group.
Jones — who already felt the commissioner made too much money and told the owners as much during a closed-door meeting in March, per Pro Football Talk — is not happy about the NFL’s handling of 13-month investigation of Elliot for allegedly committing domestic violence against former girlfriend Tiffany Thompson.
Per a source, Jones was told there would be no suspension, which was at the root of his confidence that the NFL had no evidence and there would be no discipline.
So Jones’ disappointment and anger were palpable when Goodell announced a six-game suspension for Elliott on Aug. 11. It’s not so much that Elliot was suspended but that he was misled, resulting in a breach of trust.
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It sucks that Jones needed this to happen to his team before he stood up against Goodell, but sometimes it needs to hit home before you take action. Goodell most certainly is not worth the money he is making IMO. And given the slide in ratings, maybe he should take a cut.
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Too bad he was silent during Deflategate. Their owners got greedy, wanted "their" guy to have the power now he's fumbled that power. They should have a 3rd party as abitier.
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The funny thing is, Goodell has done a good job as commish, but by being so hard on teams and players, he has pissed off fanbases and owners.
Has everyone noticed we are getting less commercials this year? And sometimes, instead of going to a normal commercial like they would have had in the past, they now sometimes do a quick 20-second commercial while still keeping a shot of the game on the other side of the screen. Much better, and you have to give Goodell credit for hearing the complaints about too many commercials and doing a little something about it.
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The funny thing is, Goodell has done a good job as commish, but by being so hard on teams and players, he has pissed off fanbases and owners.
Has everyone noticed we are getting less commercials this year? And sometimes, instead of going to a normal commercial like they would have had in the past, they now sometimes do a quick 20-second commercial while still keeping a shot of the game on the other side of the screen. Much better, and you have to give Goodell credit for hearing the complaints about too many commercials and doing a little something about it.
Kev, are you posting from Goodell's ass?
He's looking at declining ratings, not responding to complaints. He's not doing you or me any favors.
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Right, but a lot of commissioners would make changes without giving a lot of thought as to what fans actually want. It's easy to say that anyone could have done that, but he has overseen an era that has seen football become the most popular sport in the US by an even widee margin than it was when he took over. He has to get some credit for that, no?
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The funny thing is, Goodell has done a good job as commish, but by being so hard on teams and players, he has pissed off fanbases and owners.
Has everyone noticed we are getting less commercials this year? And sometimes, instead of going to a normal commercial like they would have had in the past, they now sometimes do a quick 20-second commercial while still keeping a shot of the game on the other side of the screen. Much better, and you have to give Goodell credit for hearing the complaints about too many commercials and doing a little something about it.
I recall that they announced in the offseason that they'd be rearranging them. There aren't any less, in fact there might be a couple of more, but they're lumping them together so there are fewer, but longer, breaks.
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Hmmm, that makes sense. Either way, they seem less jarring when they happen. It was just an observation.
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Hmmm, that makes sense. Either way, they seem less jarring when they happen. It was just an observation.
I think they axed the double break separating the XP/KO and the KO/return to play. That alone would make a huge difference.
Interestingly, it confounded us a bit during the first week. Sometimes you're looking for that commercial break to run and do something in the kitchen or whatnot and it's not there. Also, some of the commercials were replaced with Michaels and Collinsworth yammering at each other, so not much improvement there. They also replayed the damned Carrie Underwood opening once in lieu of a commercial break. So they're still taking breaks, they're just not bombarding us with adverts all the time.
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Right, but a lot of commissioners would make changes without giving a lot of thought as to what fans actually want. It's easy to say that anyone could have done that, but he has overseen an era that has seen football become the most popular sport in the US by an even widee margin than it was when he took over. He has to get some credit for that, no?
Football's competition committee has done some thing to try and generate interest, ie more offence. It's more the onset of internet gambling and fantasy sports more than Goodell. And the NFL seems to have peaked don'tcha think? I think a lot of people are turned off by the bumbling of many issues...Rice, Brady, Elliott.
If you're going to give him credit for riding the proverbial wave, then how can you absolve him for the decline in interest over the last couple of years?
They also replayed the damned Carrie Underwood opening once in lieu of a commercial break.
No issue there! Now that is good commishining.
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Yea the re-arranging of commercials has thrown me off a few times, but it does feel a bit better even if there is no actual difference. Game flow feels better, even if it's a cut to the commentators instead of a break, you don't feel like you are really leaving the game.
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The Return of the Power Rankings!!!!
Top 10
1. Kansas City - the emergence of Kareem Hunt makes their offense scary; wins at NE and against upcoming Philly very impressive
2. Atlanta - big win last night; no hangover yet from that crushing SB collapse
3. Oakland - their D will be a concern, but they will have a chance in every game with that QB and that offense
4. Denver - the "No Fly Zone" continues; Siemian looking good
5. Detroit - this team is quietly really good, again
6. New England - they have some major issues, but Belichick and Brady can usually mask most of them
7. Baltimore - D looking dominant again; will they have enough offense when their competition gets tough?
8. Pittsburgh - they look again like one of those teams that will win 11 games, yet you just know they won't make it to the Super Bowl
9. Green Bay - looks like another year of Rodgers carrying them to 10-12 wins, while the D is inconsistent once again
10. Dallas - I think they'll be okay, but the blueprint is now out there to slow down their O: stack the line and make their average receiving corps beat you
Trending Up
Miami - Cutler is as good as Tannehill, and this team has a lot of talent
Tampa Bay - still my dark horse team to make a deep playoff run
Philadelphia - this team is good in the trenches and has a really good young QB; a team to watch
Minnesota - if Bradford plays, with that D, they can beat almost anyone
Carolina - looking to bounce back after a disappointing 2016
Trending Down
NY Giants - their o-line is too bad for words
Cincinnati - Marvin Lewis probably should update his resume
LA Chargers - a dark horse pick by many, they're once again being done in by bad FG kicking
Arizona - Carson Palmer is done, and David Johnson is hurt; stick a fork in them
Buffalo - I think they will find a way to gut out 5-6 wins, but they are still a franchise in a vicious cycle of irrelevance
Bottom 5
28. Cleveland - D seems improved, but until they can, ya know, win a few games, they remain a laughingstock
29. New Orleans - such a poorly coached team; their D looks to be historically bad again
30. Chicago - might as well start the rookie QB
31. Indianapolis - take away Luck and this team is just plain awful
32. NY Jets - they appear to want that 1st pick
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On the Vikings:
Without Bradford, we look like a tire fire. That game was hard to watch and Zimmer being vague pisses me off
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The Return of the Power Rankings!!!!
32. NY Jets - they appear to want that 1st pick
As does most of the fanbase. We know what rebuilding is, and if we can get that franchise changing player, well, if the team is not gonna make the playoffs (which they won't), then they might as well completely suck and have a better chance at a brighter future.
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The Return of the Power Rankings!!!!
32. NY Jets - they appear to want that 1st pick
As does most of the fanbase. We know what rebuilding is, and if we can get that franchise changing player, well, if the team is not gonna make the playoffs (which they won't), then they might as well completely suck and have a better chance at a brighter future.
I don't believe in tanking, and having the first pick means nothing if the GM screws up. But as a JETS diehard, I'm torn. I hate losing, but we suck ass. I had an opportunity to be in Oakland this past Sunday and passed on it, because I KNEW what was gonna happen. (I predicted 42-10, so I was off by 10 pts). But getting the first pick...a rookie QB with no one to throw to, no running game, and an OL that is like swiss cheese? Not gonna work.
The JETS need EVERYTHING, and tanking for the first pick isn't gonna help if they get a QB and the QB is running for his life.
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J E T S SUCK SUCK SUCK.
I hate football season these days.
Signed,
A JETS fan so fed up with his team it is not even funny.
Meh.
Come back when the Jets have been as bad as the Browns for as long as the Browns :biggrin:
Signed,
A British Browns fan who's been to Cleveland many times to see the Browns (including against the Steelers last week when the Browns actually really almost looked like a football team, no really, they did!).
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I'm thinking the Jets and Browns might be able to beat the Giants. :lol
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I'm thinking the Jets and Browns might be able to beat the Giants. :lol
I'm not sure about the jets, but the Browns do look like an improving team, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they give a lot of teams problems.
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After 2 weeks, you might not be able to tell who will make the playoffs, but you can certainly tell who could be in for a long trudge this season. Cleveland, Cincinnati, NY Giants, NY Jets, Indianapolis, to name a few. It seems like there's going to be a lot of downright awful teams this year, and it's just a case of who's going to be the worst of a very bad bunch.
I'll never fully understand how the absence of just one player can make a team go from being at least half-decent to being downright abysmal.
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The Return of the Power Rankings!!!!
32. NY Jets - they appear to want that 1st pick
As does most of the fanbase. We know what rebuilding is, and if we can get that franchise changing player, well, if the team is not gonna make the playoffs (which they won't), then they might as well completely suck and have a better chance at a brighter future.
Darnold is the obvious #1 pick. the dude is incredible. he may not even come out. fuck I would want to play for the Jets and take that toll on my body
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One player can rally a team if he's good enough and well respected in the locker room. However, on the field or off, one player doesn't make or break a team. It's always a collective effort. A good example is the Giants. Everyone was talking about the absence of OBJ in week 1. If he plays in week 2, will that help the offense? The answer was no because NY doesn't have an O line. Granted that OBJ wasn't 100%, but even then it wouldn't matter. Eli has no time to throw.
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If it seems to you that Philip Rivers is always in a do-or-die situation in the 4th quarter, it's not a delusion:
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/quick-reads/2017/week-2-quick-reads
This is another good read if you're sick to death of check-downs:
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/19/16332762/watchability-fun-football-boring-quality-of-play
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The Return of the Power Rankings!!!!
*snip*
I guess Hou, Ten, Wash, Sea, SF, LAR, and Jax are about as uneventful as they come? Personally, I think SF should be in the bottom 5. (sorry bosk)
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The Return of the Power Rankings!!!!
*snip*
I guess Hou, Ten, Wash, Sea, SF, LAR, and Jax are about as uneventful as they come? Personally, I think SF should be in the bottom 5. (sorry bosk)
You could throw my Giants down into the bottom 5 as well. They are hard to watch with that oline.
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Is the AFC south considered the weakest division this year?
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Personally, I think SF should be in the bottom 5. (sorry bosk)
Until proven otherwise, I don't have a problem with that.
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Is the AFC south considered the weakest division this year?
I reckon the South divisions have been the weakest the last handful of years. And yeah, AFC South no doubt due to the recent 8-8 or 9-7 winners. NFC South has recently done well though of course. AFC East is a candidate, just due to NE always owning it. Even if their record is worse in division vs. everyone else, them winning the division will always be cited as a result of a weak division.
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The Return of the Power Rankings!!!!
*snip*
I guess Hou, Ten, Wash, Sea, SF, LAR, and Jax are about as uneventful as they come? Personally, I think SF should be in the bottom 5. (sorry bosk)
I considered that, but they at least put up a fight on Sunday at Seattle, a difficult place to play, so I thought I would spare them that dishonor, for one week at least. :lol :biggrin:
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Is the AFC south considered the weakest division this year?
I reckon the South divisions have been the weakest the last handful of years. And yeah, AFC South no doubt due to the recent 8-8 or 9-7 winners. NFC South has recently done well though of course. AFC East is a candidate, just due to NE always owning it. Even if their record is worse in division vs. everyone else, them winning the division will always be cited as a result of a weak division.
Browns and Pats should have been switched years ago imo. Cleveland and Cincinnati in the same div just doesn't seem right.
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Yeah no. Just because the other three teams can't get their act together doesn't mean we have to move to another division. Besides East Coast team in the AFC South the thing that sounds silly?
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Is the AFC south considered the weakest division this year?
I reckon the South divisions have been the weakest the last handful of years. And yeah, AFC South no doubt due to the recent 8-8 or 9-7 winners. NFC South has recently done well though of course. AFC East is a candidate, just due to NE always owning it. Even if their record is worse in division vs. everyone else, them winning the division will always be cited as a result of a weak division.
Browns and Pats should have been switched years ago imo. Cleveland and Cincinnati in the same div just doesn't seem right.
The two of them along with Pittsburgh make sense being in a division geographically. The fourth team should be the colts in that division. Baltimore should be in the south.
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Is the AFC south considered the weakest division this year?
I reckon the South divisions have been the weakest the last handful of years. And yeah, AFC South no doubt due to the recent 8-8 or 9-7 winners. NFC South has recently done well though of course. AFC East is a candidate, just due to NE always owning it. Even if their record is worse in division vs. everyone else, them winning the division will always be cited as a result of a weak division.
Browns and Pats should have been switched years ago imo. Cleveland and Cincinnati in the same div just doesn't seem right.
The two of them along with Pittsburgh make sense being in a division geographically. The fourth team should be the colts in that division. Baltimore should be in the south.
Well , one Ohio team to NFC perhaps. It's like the Ravens and Redskins , it would really suck to be in the same division (Ravens fan here ). The Ohio teams are no fun this year for the North either way.
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The NFL keeps insisting on putting shitty teams in prime time games. :facepalm:
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That game tomorrow night will be awful. Then again, most Thursday night games are, but Rams/49ers is just ugly.
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It's tough though because there are so many bad teams in the league. Odds are a lot of prime time games will have at least one stinker of a team.
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Yeah no. Just because the other three teams can't get their act together doesn't mean we have to move to another division. Besides East Coast team in the AFC South the thing that sounds silly?
Aren't the Pats THE most easternmost team in the league? Why would they be the ones to move?
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That game tomorrow night will be awful. Then again, most Thursday night games are, but Rams/49ers is just ugly.
Who knows? Might be a close game, but ugly nonetheless. :lol I didn't even come close to picking either of those teams in the survivor. It was only a question of who's worse? Dunno...
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That game tomorrow night will be awful. Then again, most Thursday night games are, but Rams/49ers is just ugly.
Who knows? Might be a close game, but ugly nonetheless. :lol I didn't even come close to picking either of those teams in the survivor. It was only a question of who's worse? Dunno...
Interesting you should say that. I read an article a week or so ago that was arguing against the NFL having a dip in quality (although it was actually a poorly disguised pro-Kaepernick piece), and the whole argument really boiled down to: the number of close games hasn't diminished; and since "close" = "good," the quality hasn't diminished significantly from the glory days of the NFL in the '80s to now.
I'm not sure why some equate "good" with "close." A blowout can be a really amazing game. A close game can be absolute rubbish. Yeah, if you have a game coming down to the wire, that neverousness at the end makes it fun. But that doesn't mean it was a "good" game, or doesn't mean it was any more "good" than a more one-sided game where the winner does some truly amazing things that are a joy to watch.
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^ Yeah I agree - in no way does close =good for me. Two crap team playing poorly with a tied 3-3 score midway through the 4th isn't great entertainment.
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/350x600q90/924/cAtRDw.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pocAtRDwj)
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LOL King :lol
@Bosk1 Yeah, those are all good points. So many different variables to good and bad games and not necessarily close games. Also, there is the possibility of two mediocre teams playing each very well on a given night such as TNF. Tonight could very well end up being a good game. We'll see. :biggrin:
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Well, ANY game the 49ers win is a "good" game, by definition, so there's that. But otherwise, I'm not counting on anything.
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That game tomorrow night will be awful. Then again, most Thursday night games are, but Rams/49ers is just ugly.
I hope it's gonna be awesome! Great rivalry so hopefully both teams will be up for it. Hoping we whoop some niner azzz!!!! :metal
Breaking out the "Mustard" Uni's again :tup
Yeah..you heard me Bosky :P
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Man the uniforms look crazy :omg:
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Man the uniforms look crazy :omg:
Yeah, I hate pastel-night.
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Yeah.... HOW BOUT THAT!!!!!!!....... **mic drop**
Boring enough for y'all?
OK...had to say that :P Seriously... damn... my Def. sucks! BUT! Seems I have an Offense all of the sudden? Yet a suspect Defense... What a warped twist of fate.
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Wow. Losing to the Rams is a new low. I'm stunned.
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Wow. Losing to the Rams is a new low. I'm stunned.
Really?? :P
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20777856/lawyer-says-aaron-hernandez-had-advanced-stages-cte
https://www.tmz.com/2017/09/21/aaron-hernandezs-fiancee-sues-patriots-nfl-cte/
In her suit, Shayanna says she and her daughter are seeking "redress for the loss of parental consortium she has experienced based on the negligent conduct of Defendants that deprived her of the companionship and society of her father, Aaron Hernandez."
Piss off. At what point then was your fiancé negligent to your family by continuing to be a gang-banger? Once he was drafted, after his contract, or after the birth of your child? I say this as my career is in the c.j. system and as MH worker and I have zero empathy for this woman, or Hernandez. Sure, their kid- but she made that choice to be with the guy, you know what he liked to do and still did it. You got what you signed up before, because the risks are well known. Hernandez had the chance at many levels to turn away from the life, and didn't. Even worse that you didn't grow up in the life, but rather turned to it when you were a teen.
I have great empathy for CTE in gridiron players, so much that my attention to the game is wavering. In this case, the claim is ridonkulous IMO.
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Looks like the Rams and 49ers have rediscovered the lost art of scoring points. There's already been quite a few low-scoring games this year, including at least one where both teams were restricted to single-figures.
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Either that or it's the continued artistic display of bad defense. :lol
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I think the Rams D will be okay. Wade Phillips is a great DC and it takes time to adjust going from a 4-3 to a 3-4.
If nothing else, we are seeing a what clueless dope Jeff Fisher was when it came to offense. Todd Gurley, all of a sudden, looks like the stud again that everyone thought he'd be.
Yes, I ended up watching more of last night's game than I intended to. :lol :lol
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I think the Rams D will be okay. Wade Phillips is a great DC and it takes time to adjust going from a 4-3 to a 3-4.
If nothing else, we are seeing a what clueless dope Jeff Fisher was when it came to offense. Todd Gurley, all of a sudden, looks like the stud again that everyone thought he'd be.
Yes, I ended up watching more of last night's game than I intended to. :lol :lol
To me it is twofold. Actually 3.
1) Goff was held back by Fisher.
2) Gurley is a monster.
3) Rams went out and signed one of the best offensive lineman in the game.
You can go get all the stud receivers, running backs, you want. If you do not have an offensive line, particularly left tackle. pack it in.
When Lane Johnson went down last year, Wentz had no chance, He has him now, and Wentz is a stud,
Ironically, the offensive lineman that the rams signed from the bengals, lol look at Dalton now. and they arguable have one of the top receivers in the game,
Diva wide receivers are a dime a dozen. Build the o line.
Look at the Seahaks and Giants. 2 of the best defenses in the league. Common thread, no o line. When your offense cant do shi, means your defense is on the field for 40 minutes. because of no o line
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Yep, a good o-line is far more important than having a stud WR. How many Super Bowl rings do Calvin Johnson, Odell Beckham, Antonio Brown, AJ Green and Julio Jones (low blow, I know), probably the five best WRs of the 10s, have?
It's crazy to see how bad o-lines are nowadays. Shoot, what teams have very good/great o-lines? Dallas, Oakland, New England, maybe Tennessee and....??
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Yep, a good o-line is far more important than having a stud WR. How many Super Bowl rings do Calvin Johnson, Odell Beckham, Antonio Brown, AJ Green and Julio Jones (low blow, I know), probably the five best WRs of the 10s, have?
It's crazy to see how bad o-lines are nowadays. Shoot, what teams have very good/great o-lines? Dallas, Oakland, New England, maybe Tennessee and....??
You mention AB, but the problem isn't the o-line with the steelers. It's the secondary. In fact, I'd call the o-line on that team one of their strengths.
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The Pats' O-Line has not gelled yet. They haven't really been very good at all. They will be severely tested tomorrow against Texas.
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The Pats' O-Line has not gelled yet. They haven't really been very good at all. They will be severely tested tomorrow against Texas.
Cannon may be out as well and that's Brady's backside protection.
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The Pats' O-Line has not gelled yet. They haven't really been very good at all. They will be severely tested tomorrow against Texas.
Cannon may be out as well and that's Brady's backside protection.
I thought Black Biff Stadler was Brady's backside protection.
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I'm blonde tonight. That went right over my head like a bad snap.
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[SNIP] - No Politics, see rule 13.
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[SNIP] - No Politics, see rule 13.
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Interesting to see the response to Trump's comments at Wembley. The Browns owner, Jimmy Haslam, is apparently going to issue a response to Trump shortly.
As for the Browns themselves, I'm hopeful the promise shown against the Steelers in week one will come to fruition in this evening's game against the Colts. Garrett is out running at Lucas Oil Field but I imagine he'll be kept back for next week or the week after.
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[SNIP] - No Politics, see rule 13.
How many points will the Jags score today before Flacco completes a pass?
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It always get glossed over, but if you look it up, since winning the Super Bowl, Flacco has mostly been dog shit. If I had to rank the 32 starting QBs right now, he wouldn't make the top 20.
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I had a feeling that the Ravens would come back to Earth eventually once they played a real team, but I didn't think it would be today :o
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[SNIP] - No Politics, see rule 13.
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I had a feeling that the Ravens would come back to Earth eventually once they played a real team, but I didn't think it would be today :o
They just made a mockery of my power rankings, since I had them 7th this week. :facepalm: :lol
What a complete and total embarrassment.
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This'll be the first Bears game I start watching (when they're not playing the Packers) today. I heard that the Steelers won't even take the field during the anthem; I'm interested in seeing what exactly they do.
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I'm interested in the games starting so we can enjoy the games... *[SNIP] - No Politics, see rule 13.*
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[SNIP] - No Politics, see rule 13.
And go Seahawks! Plz have some offense this week!
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[SNIP] - No Politics, see rule 13.
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[SNIP] - No Politics, see rule 13.
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[SNIP] - No Politics, see rule 13.
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Oh jeez, can we take this to the P/R and leave this thread to just football? :facepalm:
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Oh jeez, can we take this to the P/R and leave this thread to just football? :facepalm:
This. No politics outside the P/R forum. If you wish to discuss the events regarding the anthem protests, do it there.
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Oh jeez, can we take this to the P/R and leave this thread to just football? :facepalm:
This. No politics outside the P/R forum.
That's fine...provided you keep snipping the posts before mine and Splent's that brought this up.
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Right. Football. Jacksonville. Great in week 1, abysmal in week 2, great again in Wembley in week 3.
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Sorry bout that.
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The Steelers are playing bad, but they haven't been Joe Flacco bad at least.
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The Steelers are playing bad, but they haven't been Joe Flacco bad at least.
And Kizer wasn't Flacco bad, either. So there's that.
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Thank God for a 40 year old QB.
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I'll never forget how excited I was when I learned that the Browns were coming to Baltimore and for the first time in my 12 years on earth, I'd have a true home team to enjoy and cheer for. The Ravens were everything that I could ever hope for. I spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars supporting them over the past 20 plus years. I never could have imagined that I would no longer be a fan.
[SNIP] - See Rule 13.
Thanks for the many great memories and the two great Super Bowl seasons, but I'm now a free agent fan, in pursuit of a team that will not tolerate this foolishness. If no such team exists, then so be it.
I loved my Ravens....but some things are more important than football. I am a vet and a proud patriot, and I deserve better. We all do.
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but I'm now a free agent fan, in pursuit of a team
(https://www.hot97.com/sites/g/files/exi706/f/styles/emmis_xgallery_large/public/201509/Screen%20Shot%202015-09-03%20at%2012.07.53%20PM.png?itok=pQrmnTuu)
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*snip*
Rule 13?
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Bad day for NFL officials:
-Had no clue what the rule was on the batted ball play in the Bears/Steelers game.
-Threw a ridiculous flag on Von Miller for him doing the help you up fake out thing, which he and the Bill were both laughing about.
-Botched the end of Falcons/Lions.
Just ugly.
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I thought they made the right call at the end of the Lions game
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I thought they made the right call at the end of the Lions game
Technically, they did, but had they got the call right on the field, the Lions would have at least had a slim shot to get off one more play. I get that is a bang-bang play, but the Lions really got the short end of the stick there.
Also, the rule itself is moronic. Had Tate gone to the ground in the end zone and not maintained control, it would have been an incompletion, but since he held on to it, it's a catch and not a touchdown. It's like, the play is over, but it's really not. It makes no sense.
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I didn't watch the lions game, but from what I seen I don't think that there should have been a 10 second run off. I'm saying that with very little information, though.
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*snip*
Rule 13?
Exactly, and he knows it. We already almost got into it earlier in the thread. Man I bet he's pissed. I could go on more in detail but rule 13
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Looks like the Raiders and Seahawks were more concerned about ***rule 13*** than playing football. WTF guys?
Most of my football teams looked bad this week. Two college, two pro, all terrible.
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Bad day for NFL officials:
-Had no clue what the rule was on the batted ball play in the Bears/Steelers game.
-Threw a ridiculous flag on Von Miller for him doing the help you up fake out thing, which he and the Bill were both laughing about.
-Botched the end of Falcons/Lions.
Just ugly.
Admittedly, Denver is 'my' team, but this was a brutal call, and it sealed the Bills win. I'm not saying the Broncos would've been able to get a TD in 5 minutes/80+ yards (which would only push it to OT at best), but they were robbed of the chance. 15 yards and getting out of a punt for a 'PSYCH!'!?!?! Lame. I thought there was also a 5 yard unsportsmanlike penalty the refs can use?
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I've seen Von Miller do that same thing before and he wasn't penalized for it. It is funny that the NFL changed their stance on celebrations so the players/fans could have more fun, but the officials would still penalize a player for a harmless joke when both players from each team were laughing. I'm not sure if they want the players to be robotic, or if that was just a hometown call (there were a few really questionable calls that hurt the Broncos yesterday, not that they deserved to win).
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Right after I proclaim the AFC West the best division in football 3-4 lose. At least my Chiefs are still 3-0!
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I'll never forget how excited I was when I learned that the Browns were coming to Baltimore and for the first time in my 12 years on earth, I'd have a true home team to enjoy and cheer for. The Ravens were everything that I could ever hope for. I spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars supporting them over the past 20 plus years. I never could have imagined that I would no longer be a fan.
[SNIP] - See Rule 13.
Thanks for the many great memories and the two great Super Bowl seasons, but I'm now a free agent fan, in pursuit of a team that will not tolerate this foolishness. If no such team exists, then so be it.
I loved my Ravens....but some things are more important than football. I am a vet and a proud patriot, and I deserve better. We all do.
And you get a week off. You were warned.
To others:
Looks like the Raiders and Seahawks were more concerned about ***rule 13*** than playing football. WTF guys?
Skirting around the issue like this is not going to fly with me. Take it to P/R if you want to discuss it, or you take time off. Thank you for your cooperation.
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The Chiefs are looking like the best team in football right now. Hunt is the most dynamic rookie running back since Adrian Peterson. It's hard to like the Chiefs as a Broncos fan, but I'm really impressed with them.
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The Chiefs and the Falcons are both solid teams and probably the most consistent at this point. However, it's only week 3. :corn
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I didn't see the play but the fact that it was Golden tate whose call was overturned makes me smile so big.
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I thought there was also a 5 yard unsportsmanlike penalty the refs can use?
There used to be a less severe five yard variant for facemasking which was eliminated about a decade ago. That might be what you were thinking of.
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J E T S SUCK SUCK Su...wait a minute. They won a game? :lol
It'll be the Jets luck that they win more games than the Giants, and get F'd out of draft position.
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IMHO Samsara, the draft picks don't mean shit unless you have at least a half way decent coaching staff. That's what the Jets really need.
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Admittedly, Denver is 'my' team, but this was a brutal call, and it sealed the Bills win. I'm not saying the Broncos would've been able to get a TD in 5 minutes/80+ yards (which would only push it to OT at best), but they were robbed of the chance. 15 yards and getting out of a punt for a 'PSYCH!'!?!?! Lame. I thought there was also a 5 yard unsportsmanlike penalty the refs can use?
The Broncos didn't play well enough to win, but that absurd call pretty much sealed the win for the Bills. Oh well.
The Chiefs are looking like the best team in football right now. Hunt is the most dynamic rookie running back since Adrian Peterson. It's hard to like the Chiefs as a Broncos fan, but I'm really impressed with them.
For sure. Hunt looks like a special RB, and makes their offense that much better. And with that defense and the excellent coaching staff, the Chiefs are gonna be tough to beat all year.
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The Dallas D just made Carson Palmer look like an elite QB. :lol
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Win or lose tonight, Larry Fitzgerald is still a joy to watch. His Hall of Fame speech will be so good.
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Definitely a classy guy and great receiver. Never anything bad to say about LF. But, I'm afraid if he stays with the Cards, he'll end up as one of the greats without a ring. That would be a shame.
Oh and BTW, great win Dallas! :2metal:
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J E T S SUCK SUCK Su...wait a minute. They won a game? :lol
It'll be the Jets luck that they win more games than the Giants, and get F'd out of draft position.
IMHO Samsara, the draft picks don't mean shit unless you have at least a half way decent coaching staff. That's what the Jets really need.
It's not looking like the Giants have much of a coaching staff either. McAdoo has been out coached in each game this season IMO.
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Lots of teams in that category but as far as McAdoo goes, he better get OBJ under control. I don't care how good that little punk is. His behavior affects the entire team. That stupid TD celebration he did was an embarrassment. What does he call that, the peeing dog? :lol
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Post-Week 3 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. Kansas City - this team literally has no glaring weaknesses
2. Atlanta - two of their three wins were by a hair, but 3-0 is 3-0
3. New England - still have major holes to plug, but as usual Brady and Belichick will find a way to win most of their games while plugging them
4. Philadelphia - I'll be shocked if this team doesn't win 11+
5. Denver - tough let down loss following the Dallas blowout, but still a lot to like
6. Dallas - Dak Prescott is the real deal
7. Detroit - brutal way to lose; can they rebound?
8. Tennessee - impressive win over the Seahawks
9. Washington - they have to be in the top 10 after that demolition of Oakland
10. Green Bay - having the best QB in the league often masks their problems, of which there are many
Trending Up
Minnesota - Dalvin Cook is quietly having a great rookie season
LA Rams - amazing what having a coach with a clue can do for an offense
Jacksonville - if Blake Bortles throws 4 TDs, you are trending up
Buffalo - probably on their way to another 7-9 or 8-8 season, but they are showing more than most thought they would
Chicago - defense is looking pretty good, and they have a great 1-2 punch at RB
Trending Down
Baltimore - getting torched by Blake Bortles is never a good sign
NY Giants - offense finally got going a little, and then the defense blew it
Carolina - Cam Newton is done
Arizona - a shame to see Larry Fitzgerald's last few years happening on such a mediocre team
Miami - how do you lose like that to the Jets?
Bottom 5
28. Cincinnati - gutty performance, but still lost
29. NY Jets - despite the win, they are still probably a 3-13 team
30. Indianapolis - they get no credit for a home win over Cleveland
31. San Francisco - they have some work to do
32. Cleveland - so bad, they never really had a shot to beat a bad Colts team
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Because I really thought Cleveland's going to take biggest rides this year they still feel like that. That was a disappointing loss to a bad Indy team.
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OK EB!!! You and me this week! :yarr
GO RAMS!!!!!!
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OK EB!!! You and me this week! :yarr
GO RAMS!!!!!!
Uh, you must have me confused with a Cowboy's fan. But Hef can certainly go and suck it. :lol
For what it's worth I will be rooting for Dallas, based solely on my Pick'em league prediction.
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Come on back to the darkside Barto. :xbones :hat
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Good gawd, Tony Romo......'shut up!' Two weeks in a row I've listened to, and then muted the Packer games. He needed a year of seasoning with their #7 broadcast crew.
Makes me miss Phil Simms (and that's saying a lot)
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Uh, you must have me confused with a Cowboy's fan. But Hef can certainly go and suck it. :lol
For what it's worth I will be rooting for Dallas, based solely on my Pick'em league prediction.
Hmmm...Don't know why I thought you were a Cowgirls fan. Must be my Oldtimers kicking in :hat
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Uh, you must have me confused with a Cowboy's fan. But Hef can certainly go and suck it. :lol
For what it's worth I will be rooting for Dallas, based solely on my Pick'em league prediction.
Hmmm...Don't know why I thought you were a Cowgirls fan. Must be my Oldtimers kicking in :hat
He's a stormtrooper in the Dark Hoodie's Empire.
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Lock of the week: My Falcons are favored by 8 against the Bills. Take the Birds. Julio hasn't been a factor so far this season but the game plan for Sunday will correct that.
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Uh, you must have me confused with a Cowboy's fan. But Hef can certainly go and suck it. :lol
For what it's worth I will be rooting for Dallas, based solely on my Pick'em league prediction.
Hmmm...Don't know why I thought you were a Cowgirls fan. Must be my Oldtimers kicking in :hat
He's a stormtrooper in the Dark Hoodie's Empire.
(https://sunriseswansong.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/darth-sidious-bill-belichick.jpg?w=509&h=292)
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We all bow to our master.
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If Trevathan isn't suspended for that dirty hit he took on Adams... seriously that was terrible.
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If Trevathan isn't suspended for that dirty hit he took on Adams... seriously that was terrible.
I don't think you have to worry about that. Head to head will be a suspension especially when he was tied up by another player.
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Good gawd, Tony Romo......'shut up!' Two weeks in a row I've listened to, and then muted the Packer games. He needed a year of seasoning with their #7 broadcast crew.
Makes me miss Phil Simms (and that's saying a lot)
He's getting great reviews pretty much everywhere.
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I think Romo has been excellent.
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I think Romo has been excellent.
Said no one ever
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Good gawd, Tony Romo......'shut up!' Two weeks in a row I've listened to, and then muted the Packer games. He needed a year of seasoning with their #7 broadcast crew.
Makes me miss Phil Simms (and that's saying a lot)
He's getting great reviews pretty much everywhere.
I've seen very mixed, polarized reviews. A lot of people think he's great. I thought he was awful in the one game I heard him call. He struck me as a bit melodramatic.
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I think Romo has been excellent.
Said no one ever
He's a thousand times better than Buck/Aikman. I actually liked him more the 2nd time I heard him than the first. I bet he'll continue to improve.
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I think Romo has been excellent.
Said no one ever
He's a thousand times better than Buck/Aikman. I actually liked him more the 2nd time I heard him than the first. I bet he'll continue to improve.
Man, you have the biggest hate-on for Joe and Troy. Where did they touch you as a child?
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In his CUBbie hole.
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I think Romo has been excellent.
Said no one ever
He's a thousand times better than Buck/Aikman. I actually liked him more the 2nd time I heard him than the first. I bet he'll continue to improve.
Man, you have the biggest hate-on for Joe and Troy. Where did they touch you as a child?
Joe is just awful and Troy is bias against the packers.
In his CUBbie hole.
I see what you did there :omg:
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Why would he be biased against the Packers? He owned them during his playing days. He should have fond memories of Green Bay. Phili I could see him disliking, there's bad blood there. Also, he's quite respectful of St. Rogers. No trouble there, either.
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Love the Joe/T-Roy team.
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I didn't see most of the game since I dozed off early last night, but I saw the hit on Adams this morning, and that was brutal. That has got to be a multiple game suspension.
Joe Buck is better than he used to be. Aikman is always good and manages to always be pretty impartial (despite having played for Dallas).
I think Romo is really good thus far, although I wish he would tone down saying what every play is gonna be the second before the ball is hiked. Other than that, he is very good. His enthusiasm is refreshing.
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I think Romo is really good thus far, although I wish he would tone down saying what every play is gonna be the second before the ball is hiked. Other than that, he is very good. His enthusiasm is refreshing.
Does he get it right? Gruden was damn near psychic predicting what was going to happen.
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Seems like he is right more than he is wrong. Like, he will point out how a weak corner is on a WR who is great at fade patterns, and then boom, the QB throws a fade to the WR who catches it for a TD.
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He's really good at it. It's him seeing formations and knowing what play the offense will call from the pre snap.
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Romo is 100000000x better than Simms, that's for sure. And all the football people that I follow seem to think that Romo is doing a fantastic job.
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Not surprisingly, of the four networks who show NFL games, ESPN has by far the worst tandem.
CBS
Jim Nantz - always great
Tony Romo - really good already and will get better
Fox
Joe Buck - solid, better than he used to be, and has great chemistry Aikman
Troy Aikman - great
NBC
Al Michaels - the best play by play football guy ever
Cris Collinsworth - some are not a fan, but I think he is really good
ESPN
Sean McDonough - he's okay, but doesn't seem nearly as good at football as he was at baseball
Jon Gruden - has gotten better after being awful at first, but still a bit too praise-effusive
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Not surprisingly, of the four networks who show NFL games, ESPN has by far the worst tandem.
CBS
Jim Nantz - always great
Tony Romo - really good already and will get better
Fox
Joe Buck - solid, better than he used to be, and has great chemistry Aikman
Troy Aikman - great
NBC
Al Michaels - the best play by play football guy ever
Cris Collinsworth - some are not a fan, but I think he is really good
ESPN
Sean McDonough - he's okay, but doesn't seem nearly as good at football as he was at baseball
Jon Gruden - has gotten better after being awful at first, but still a bit too praise-effusive
I've never been a fan of Jim Nantz. He doesn't annoy me, but I've always been kind of meh about him.
On the other hand, I can't say enough good things about Al Michaels and I agree with you 100%.
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I haven't heard McDonough on MNF yet but I have always liked him.
Nantz isn't as good at football as he is at the Masters or NCAA football, but that bar is pretty high.
I like Collinsworth, and him with Michaels might be my favorite football broadcast team ever.
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For the most part they all sound the same to me. I usually don't know who's calling a game. Of course some stick out. Michaels and Collinsworth certainly do, and I don't generally have a problem with them. CC can be annoying at times, but generally I like him alright. Couldn't tell McDonough from Ethel Merman, but Gruden has the best knowledge of the game of any of them. Really dig his insight. Buck and Troy have great chemistry, and overall their crew is top notch, but they don't really add anything, IMO. They're just sort of there.
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Gruden does have great insight, but he gets so ridiculous sometimes. A WR will make a great catch, but with one foot barely landing out of bounds, making in a no catch, and Gruden will say, "I say give it to him." Yeah, I am just Jon Gruden would have been fine with that when coaching and that WR being on the opposing team. :rollin :rollin
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I would take Beasley Fucking Reese over Gruden. He blows! God, what a f'n shlockfest.
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So Cincinnati and Cleveland play each other later, giving each a rare chance to get a win on the board. Or, perhaps because they're Cincinnati and Cleveland, they'll tie. What's it gonna be? High-scoring tie or low-scoring tie?
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So Cincinnati and Cleveland play each other later, giving each a rare chance to get a win on the board. Or, perhaps because they're Cincinnati and Cleveland, they'll tie. What's it gonna be? High-scoring tie or low-scoring tie?
Cincy is still the better team at this point, but I expect Cleveland to be better in a year or two. I'd take Cincy today, but I wouldn't be surprised if they blew it.
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Miami just got shut out by the Saints. The Saints defense. The New Orleans Saints defense. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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ugh these bullshit London games. Nothing like waking up on a Sunday morning and having one game already ended.
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ugh these bullshit London games. Nothing like waking up on a Sunday morning and having one game already ended.
I actually look at it differently Chris because you get to see the late games and it ends like at 8 or 9pm. I have to stay up till 11:30 or 12 at night on the East Coast I hate that
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That's because you're old.
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That's because you're old.
Obvious statement is obvious
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Miami just got shut out by the Saints. The Saints defense. The New Orleans Saints defense. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
I thought Miami was supposed to be decent this year?
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That's because you're old.
Obvious statement is obvious
Obviously.
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That's because you're old.
Obvious statement is obvious
Obviously.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x600q90/924/gH9fuW.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pogH9fuWj)
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As a testament to how little I notice commentators I'm watching Los Patriots y Las Panteras en Espanol and actually like it better. As long as Devlin still means Devlin I can understand everything I need to know.
Interestingly, play action in Spanish is play action.
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"...and he's having the time of his life."
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Interestingly, play action in Spanish is play action.
Like how Banana Daiquiri is Banana Daiquiri?
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Boy the Pats D is bad.
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"...and he's having the time of his life."
:rollin :rollin
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Boy the Pats D is bad.
Again.
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Nice to see Patricia lighting them up.
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58 YARDS!!!!
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Just in case anyone was wondering, the AFC North is currently the worst division in football. I thought that I'd join in on some of the obvious statements that were being made today.
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Jets ran a successful (!) fake punt right before the half, only to end up not ready to subsequently attempt a field goal and have to eat a delay of game penalty. They then just missed the longer field goal attempt. Good reminder that I'm watching the Same Ol' Jets :lol
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So the Steelers are beating their arch rival 19-0 on the road, and Antonio Brown is throwing a tantrum on the sideline because he didn't get the ball enough. I officially now hate that punk.
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So the Steelers are beating their arch rival 19-0 on the road, and Antonio Brown is throwing a tantrum on the sideline because he didn't get the ball enough. I officially now hate that punk.
Now?? So his video while the coach was speaking in the locker room last year didn't do it for you? The guy seems like a douche.
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AB is kind of an asshole, but at least he isn't complacent.
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He's an awesome receiver.
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So the Steelers are beating their arch rival 19-0 on the road, and Antonio Brown is throwing a tantrum on the sideline because he didn't get the ball enough. I officially now hate that punk.
Now?? So his video while the coach was speaking in the locker room last year didn't do it for you? The guy seems like a douche.
I was well on my way after that video. It's now officially official.
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I've never seen a Patriots team so bad at tackling. You count on them to have a firm grasp of the fundamentals, but their front seven is playing like high-schoolers.
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AB lost me long ago, today has been another example why. The dude is a fantastic WR, that’s pretty much the only good thing I can think of to say about him.
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I've never seen a Patriots team so bad at tackling. You count on them to have a firm grasp of the fundamentals, but their front seven is playing like high-schoolers.
Their defense absolutely blows. That call against Gillmore..He has sucked big time this year. They should've just paid Butler instead of fucking with him.
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I've never seen a Patriots team so bad at tackling. You count on them to have a firm grasp of the fundamentals, but their front seven is playing like high-schoolers.
Their defense absolutely blows. That call against Gillmore..He has sucked big time this year. They should've just paid Butler instead of fucking with him.
I'm much more annoyed with Rowe than Gillmore. In any case, it doesn't matter how good your secondary is if your front seven doesn't exist.
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The defense and the offense of line absolutely terrible.
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These stupid penalties that should be avoided are going to cost the Pats the game.
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Half-watching the Jets game, made the comment that they seemed almost competent, and not ten seconds later was the backwards-pass-scoop-and-score. Sorry for jinxing them, Bill!
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Are the Bills for real, or is that two fluke's in a row?
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Uncharacteristic penalties that could be avoided by the Patriots other downfall. you had them stopped on 3rd down you should have the ball back with two minutes to go terrible terrible undisciplined play.
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Half-watching the Jets game,
The Pats' defense was half watching the Panthers game.
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Carolina win at New England.
Buffalo wins at Atlanta.
LA Rans win at Dallas.
The early season craziness continues.
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Half-watching the Jets game, made the comment that they seemed almost competent, and not ten seconds later was the backwards-pass-scoop-and-score. Sorry for jinxing them, Bill!
You almost owed me a beer for that.
Joe, you'd have to have offered me pretty good odds to take the bet that four games into the season the Jets and Pats would be tied in the division and looking up at the Bills :lol
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Seriously. :lol. That's why you play these games. Like Kev said, what a crazy season so far.
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What a game from Houston and the rookie quarterback.
I thought the Titans defense would have played better.
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What a game from Houston and the rookie quarterback.
Yeah, he lit up the Patriots last week. Well, now that I think of it, that isn't that difficult..
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Antonio Brown is a great receiver, and went to Central Michigan, so there's two good things to say about him ;)
Ravens really showed up for the rivalry game today (no, this wasn't a bye week after London). They were only going to be an average team at best before the injuries, now they are just bad.
Carr and Mariota hurt again.
The only constants this year seem to be Rogers, Brady, and the Denver defense.
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The only constants this year seem to be Rogers, Brady, and the Denver defense.
The Patriots defense is also pretty constant. Constantly sucking.
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The only constants this year seem to be Rogers, Brady, and the Denver defense.
Let's not forget Kareem Hunt and Todd Gurley. ;)
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Yes Kev. They have been dynamite.
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And yes, a part of this is frustration because of fantasy football, but the Patriots sure gave up a lot to get a decoy WR.
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Yeah, and apparently they signed a decoy CB.
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The damn firewall won't let me quote Angels 'Falcons are the lock of the week' post.
Apparently they forgot the combination to that lock.
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The firewall has been a bitch lately.
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Just a thought as I'm sitting here watching the late game that occurred to me about AB. I didn't get to watch the game live because I don't have Sunday ticket this year (I'm a poor sumbitch), but I did see a pic on a news feed of a gatorade cooler that he appeared to have tossed. I'm in no way trying to make excuses for poor behavior, but I don't remember seeing anything like this from him before he took that massive head shot a few years ago in the bengals playoff game. Never underestimate the effects of a serious brain injury. It still doesn't excuse the behavior, but it may explain it.
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Uncharacteristic penalties that could be avoided by the Patriots other downfall. you had them stopped on 3rd down you should have the ball back with two minutes to go terrible terrible undisciplined play.
And this is what will send Bill into apoplexy. It's one thing to be beaten through hard nosed football. Another, entirely, to undermine your own effort. There's going to be a lot of sore throats and hurt feelings in that locker room this week (short week). I don't want to be Tampa Bay, though. One of these weeks, some poor team is going to get just annihilated in the annual Patriots' "statement" game.
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So I got tickets from work to go to the New Orleans vs Miami match at Wembley yesterday. I have a very, very limited understanding of the sport, I kind off knew the basics - 4 downs to get 10 meters, knew how the points are scored etc and I can name about 5 players - Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Lawrence Taylor, erm The Fridge?.....and erm OK I could name 4'ish.
So anyway, aside from briefly watching a highlights show in the 90's I never really watched any 'Gridiron' before. But I went along anyway, pretty great atmosphere - I was surprised by how many American's were in the stadium. As for the game - Gee there is a lot of stop/starting and penalty calls in this game isn't there? There was some pretty interesting stuff, but the game was pretty one sided, and many people around me said it was a poor match. Still I had a good time, cooler than Rugby Union for sure ;D
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So I got tickets from work to go to the New Orleans vs Miami match at Wembley yesterday. I have a very, very limited understanding of the sport, I kind off knew the basics - 4 downs to get 10 meters, knew how the points are scored etc and I can name about 5 players - Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Lawrence Taylor, erm The Fridge?.....and erm OK I could name 4'ish.
So anyway, aside from briefly watching a highlights show in the 90's I never really watched any 'Gridiron' before. But I went along anyway, pretty great atmosphere - I was surprised by how many American's were in the stadium. As for the game - Gee there is a lot of stop/starting and penalty calls in this game isn't there? There was some pretty interesting stuff, but the game was pretty one sided, and many people around me said it was a poor match. Still I had a good time, cooler than Rugby Union for sure ;D
and it's ten YARDS. ;) :) :)
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The only constants this year seem to be Rogers, Brady, and the Denver defense.
The Patriots defense is also pretty constant. Constantly sucking.
I was surprised to hear that the Pats have given up the most points so far this year.
Carolina win at New England.
Buffalo wins at Atlanta.
LA Rans win at Dallas.
The early season craziness continues.
Part of me likes the parody. Part of me really hates it. >:(
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Or parity. ;)
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Well, it is the modern NFL we are talking about. "Parody" fits just as well.
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The LA Rams are the best team in the NFC West right now. Said the guy in Seattle, not thinking he'd be saying that anytime soon.
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:lol, I goofed...sort of.
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If the season carries on like this, it might be pretty tight in some of the divisions for who gets into the playoffs. 25% of the way through the season, do you have any clue as to who will take home the Lombardi in February? No team has been dominant, really. Even the usually-trustworthy Patriots have been hit-and-miss.
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Tom Brady basically blamed yesterdays 's loss on the officials. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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Tom Brady basically blamed yesterdays 's loss on the officials. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
While I did not like most of the calls yesterday, I'd like to blame the Defense. I think you know Brady can't blame them even though they are the reason for the lost.
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I guess now Tom Brady knows how Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers have felt for long stretches of their careers, not being able to win because your defense sucks ass.
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Easy fella. He knows that all ready and so does this bitchy Pats fan as seen on the internet. :lol
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Oh, please. Let me know when a Patriots D is a bad over the course of the whole season as the 2011 Packers D was or some of the defenses in Indy Peyton's first 5-6 years. :P
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Or like the 2016 Denver offense? :neverusethis:
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Or like the 2016 Denver offense? :neverusethis:
Hey now, Trevor did okay last year for a 7th rounder and a first year starter.
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Good start for the Redskins tonight. This team looks for real. Their only loss was to Philly (who looks like a great team), and they won at LA against the 3-1 Rams and then drilled the then-healthy Raiders. Chiefs will have their hands full all night.
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Dont be all touchy now. :lol
I think Belichick made a big mistake in setting up this defense this year. We can only hope that they become an average, mid defense and with the offense the Pats have, still have a chance.
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That's your hope, not mine. :lol
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It certainly is. :lol
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Kev, this should interest you.
"The Patriots have allowed 105 points in three home games this year, they allowed 124 points at Gillette all of last season."
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Or like the 2016 Denver offense? :neverusethis:
I was expecting you to mention the 2015 offense. :lol
Kev, this should interest you.
"The Patriots have allowed 105 points in three home games this year, they allowed 124 points at Gillette all of last season."
:omg: :omg:
Holy shit.
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It's very telling Chad.
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Their defensive personnel isn't what it was before, which wasn't helped by trading away draft picks for a decoy WR. It seems like they made a point to ignore the defense just so they could get Brady some new toys before he retired (Gillislee, Cooks, Burkhead, D Allen).
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They also traded two guys coming up on contracts we're very good players. They going youth but it's growing pains big time.
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As great as Belichick is, he does some really fucked up things. Like when is it ever a good idea to add Bills and Bengals players to your roster?
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As great as Belichick is, he does some really fucked up things. Like when is it ever a good idea to add Bills and Bengals players to your roster?
25 and 30 years ago.
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Exactly.
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I'm not going to cry about the record live has Bill Belichick with Brady. sure what kind of cry about all these things but I'll wait till the end of the season before I actually say something. that's what we really are looking for right?
Playoffs.
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25 years ago the Bengals were one of the worst teams in the league, and weren't sporting much talent. I don't understand the reference.
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25 years ago the Bengals were one of the worst teams in the league, and weren't sporting much talent. I don't understand the reference.
I meant it respectively - Bills 25 years ago; Bengals 30 years ago. I seem to remember them both being Super Bowl teams at those times. ;)
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Chad's math is right.
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Yeah on the 30 for the Bengals. It didn't take long for them to implode, though. That's why the 25 baffled me. :biggrin:
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Suicide watch for bettors everywhere who had Wash +7. :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Damn, you guys have convinced me. Belichick sucks. They should have fired him long ago. Bring on McDaniels!
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Suicide watch for bettors everywhere who had Wash +7. :rollin :rollin :rollin
They must've wanted a reason to off themselves for thinking that, and at KC no less. :lol
Damn, you guys have convinced me. Belichick sucks. They should have fired him long ago. Bring on McDaniels!
They have a couple of bad games and all of a sudden BB sucks? :lol I don't buy it. You NE fans are all spoiled rotten. :rollin :biggrin:
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J E T S SUCK SUCK SU....uh...WUT?
How the hell are Gang Green 2-2? :lol
This can't last...
*spoken like a tried and true JETS fan*
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What if I told you in August that thru 4 weeks, the Pats and Jets would be sporting the same record?
I wouldn't believe it, much like I wouldn't believe that I'd give up on the Ravens, but life's crazy!
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J E T S SUCK SUCK SU....uh...WUT?
How the hell are Gang Green 2-2? :lol
This can't last...
*spoken like a tried and true JETS fan*
Not only are they 2-2, they have the same record as the Patriots. Imagine after all this they make the playoffs and New England doesn't? (Not gonna happen, but what a world that would be.)
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Post-Week 4 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. Kansas City - last night was a game Chiefs teams of the past would have lost; they are the real deal
2. Philadelphia - not sure they will be the team to come out of the NFC, but so far they have been the most impressive
3. Washington - yeah, they are only 2-2, but they had narrow losses to the 1 and 2 teams, beat the 3-1 Rams in LA and kicked the crap out of a then-healthy Raiders team
4. LA Rams - seems crazy, but they, to me, have the best 4th most impressive team thus far, and the defense will get better as they get more used to the 3-4
5. Denver - run defense has been all-world so far, and the no-fly zone has mostly been in tact thus far
6. Detroit - 3-1, with their only loss being on that tough break to Atlanta; this team is good
7. Buffalo - I know this won't last, but gotta give them their due for now; that D is stellar
8. Pittsburgh - still not sold on them, as they have beaten two bad teams, one team without their QB, and lost to a bad Bears team
9. Carolina - wins against Buffalo and at NE look pretty impressive
10. Green Bay - Rodgers will continue to make them a lot better than they really are
Trending Up
Houston - looks like they might finally have their QB
NY Jets - many thought they'd be lucky to win 2 all year, much less 2 in a row!
Tampa Bay - can they take advantage of a bad NE defense?
New Orleans - is their D really improved or is it all a mirage?
Seattle - offense finally showed signs of life, albeit against a bad Colts team
Trending Down
New England - they won't trend down for long, but two home losses in a row is shocking
Dallas - that defense is not good
Miami - offense is pathetic
Minnesota - starting QB is out and now their stud rookie RB is done for the year
Oakland - two losses in a row and now they look their great young QB; ouch!
Bottom 5
28. Chicago - might as well start the rookie QB
29. NY Giants - offensive line stinks. and now the defense is leaky
30. Indianapolis - props for a good first half against Seattle, but then they fell apart
31. San Francisco - will be a rough year, but I think next year will be much better
32. Cleveland - both sadly and laughably bad
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Like when is it ever a good idea to add Bills and Bengals players to your roster?
Well let's see here....
Rams 2017 Free agency and trade aquisitions....
Bengals - Andrew Whitworth LT- Guy has been an absolute stud for us so far.
Bills - Sammy Watkins WR- has had some great plays and clutch catches. Keeps Defenses honest. Only here since end of Aug.
Bills - Robert Woods WR - Has been solid so far
Bills- Nikell Robey-Coleman CB- Our solid slot CB so far, but when filling in for injured Kavon Webster he looked pretty damn good.
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LOL Dallas was at #6 last week because Dak is the real deal. This week they are out of the top 10 because the defense had a bad 2nd half against a good offense. :lol
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Dallas wasn't at number 6 because Prescott was the real deal; that was merely my comment for the week about him.
He is still the real deal, but their defense is not good, and with the offense not able to dominate TOP like last year, they are being exposed big time.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20916366/cam-newton-carolina-panthers-laughs-female-reporter-media-session
Just reinforces further to me that Newton is a clown, and doesn't get it. And I don't fully mean the gender thing, take that where you will. If I was in that room, I would have liked to sarcastically say (and would have lost a job) ~yeah Cam, routes, like the ones you don't study for your players. It's funny to hear you scoff at hearing about routes, because you have only finished one out of 6 of your years hitting routes above 60%. How will your WRs keep you above 60% completion for the rest of the year?~
Cam doesn't get it in regard to being mature on a public stage. He still strikes me as fool who relies on his perceived natural skill set vs. fundamentals.
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Dallas wasn't at number 6 because Prescott was the real deal; that was merely my comment for the week about him.
He is still the real deal, but their defense is not good, and with the offense not able to dominate TOP like last year, they are being exposed big time.
Prescott is a good quarter back who had a break out year because they had the best O-Line in the NFL. That's not the case this year.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20916366/cam-newton-carolina-panthers-laughs-female-reporter-media-session
Just reinforces further to me that Newton is a clown, and doesn't get it. And I don't fully mean the gender thing, take that where you will. If I was in that room, I would have liked to sarcastically say (and would have lost a job) ~yeah Cam, routes, like the ones you don't study for your players. It's funny to hear you scoff at hearing about routes, because you have only finished one out of 6 of your years hitting routes above 60%. How will your WRs keep you above 60% completion for the rest of the year?~
Cam doesn't get it in regard to being mature on a public stage. He still strikes me as fool who relies on his perceived natural skill set vs. fundamentals.
Yeah, Cam doesn't get it. Carolina needs to step up and strongly condemn this if not fine him. The fact that a lot of players are defending this is even worse. Solidifies my opinion that 95% of professional athletes are douchebags.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20916366/cam-newton-carolina-panthers-laughs-female-reporter-media-session
Just reinforces further to me that Newton is a clown, and doesn't get it. And I don't fully mean the gender thing, take that where you will. If I was in that room, I would have liked to sarcastically say (and would have lost a job) ~yeah Cam, routes, like the ones you don't study for your players. It's funny to hear you scoff at hearing about routes, because you have only finished one out of 6 of your years hitting routes above 60%. How will your WRs keep you above 60% completion for the rest of the year?~
Cam doesn't get it in regard to being mature on a public stage. He still strikes me as fool who relies on his perceived natural skill set vs. fundamentals.
I've said this before and I have no doubt whatsoever that I will have to say it again: Back about three years ago, Steve Young and Trent Dilfer were talking either at the half or at the end of the game of the week they do, and Steve Young - one of the smartest QBs in the game - said (and Trent, also no dummy, wholeheartedly agreed): Cam doesn't know what he needs to do to be better than his pure physical ability. (These are my words now, though they capture the spirit of the Young/Difler convo): All the great QBs - hell, all the great players at any position - were better than just their physical skills. PHYSICALLY, Tom Brady has no business being the GOAT. Cam will only be as good as his physical ability against the physicality of the other team on that given Sunday, because he will NEVER have the mental edge. He just doesn't know how to put in the work of the intangibles.
It's why they got beat in the Super Bowl, IMO. Denver elevated, Cam and the Panthers did not.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20916366/cam-newton-carolina-panthers-laughs-female-reporter-media-session
Just reinforces further to me that Newton is a clown, and doesn't get it. And I don't fully mean the gender thing, take that where you will. If I was in that room, I would have liked to sarcastically say (and would have lost a job) ~yeah Cam, routes, like the ones you don't study for your players. It's funny to hear you scoff at hearing about routes, because you have only finished one out of 6 of your years hitting routes above 60%. How will your WRs keep you above 60% completion for the rest of the year?~
Cam doesn't get it in regard to being mature on a public stage. He still strikes me as fool who relies on his perceived natural skill set vs. fundamentals.
I've said this before and I have no doubt whatsoever that I will have to say it again: Back about three years ago, Steve Young and Trent Dilfer were talking either at the half or at the end of the game of the week they do, and Steve Young - one of the smartest QBs in the game - said (and Trent, also no dummy, wholeheartedly agreed): Cam doesn't know what he needs to do to be better than his pure physical ability. (These are my words now, though they capture the spirit of the Young/Difler convo): All the great QBs - hell, all the great players at any position - were better than just their physical skills. PHYSICALLY, Tom Brady has no business being the GOAT. Cam will only be as good as his physical ability against the physicality of the other team on that given Sunday, because he will NEVER have the mental edge. He just doesn't know how to put in the work of the intangibles.
It's why they got beat in the Super Bowl, IMO. Denver elevated, Cam and the Panthers did not.
Nailed it.
He's a helluva talent, but as soon as that begins to decline he'll become a salary cap casualty.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20916366/cam-newton-carolina-panthers-laughs-female-reporter-media-session
Just reinforces further to me that Newton is a clown, and doesn't get it. And I don't fully mean the gender thing, take that where you will. If I was in that room, I would have liked to sarcastically say (and would have lost a job) ~yeah Cam, routes, like the ones you don't study for your players. It's funny to hear you scoff at hearing about routes, because you have only finished one out of 6 of your years hitting routes above 60%. How will your WRs keep you above 60% completion for the rest of the year?~
Cam doesn't get it in regard to being mature on a public stage. He still strikes me as fool who relies on his perceived natural skill set vs. fundamentals.
I've said this before and I have no doubt whatsoever that I will have to say it again: Back about three years ago, Steve Young and Trent Dilfer were talking either at the half or at the end of the game of the week they do, and Steve Young - one of the smartest QBs in the game - said (and Trent, also no dummy, wholeheartedly agreed): Cam doesn't know what he needs to do to be better than his pure physical ability. (These are my words now, though they capture the spirit of the Young/Difler convo): All the great QBs - hell, all the great players at any position - were better than just their physical skills. PHYSICALLY, Tom Brady has no business being the GOAT. Cam will only be as good as his physical ability against the physicality of the other team on that given Sunday, because he will NEVER have the mental edge. He just doesn't know how to put in the work of the intangibles.
It's why they got beat in the Super Bowl, IMO. Denver elevated, Cam and the Panthers did not.
Completely with you Stadler.
With the current elite QBs, or post-elite; Rodgers, Brees, Brady, and I'll put Wilson in there. All four have some natural talent, Rodgers the most- Wilson and Brees are physically short. But what sets them apart, and keeps them successful, is their knowledge and work ethic. Montana & Young are examples too.
When my boy Drew went out, and was kept out, I didn't get it and was pissed. Drew could throw the ball 50 yards without issue. It's the other stuff that Brady did, and does, that has made him successful. There is a reason he was the 199th pick- his natural abilities, outside of his intelligence, isn't what other players are. But he knew he would be successful, especially in the right situation like NE. And he would work hard to get there; love the Rodney Harrison story about showing up early.
Newton doesn't strike me as this type of QB, and his mobile ability which was never to the level of Vick, Cunningham or Wilson has continued to trend downward. As it does for all QBs, so he will be left to just primarily throwing soon enough.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20916366/cam-newton-carolina-panthers-laughs-female-reporter-media-session
Just reinforces further to me that Newton is a clown, and doesn't get it. And I don't fully mean the gender thing, take that where you will. If I was in that room, I would have liked to sarcastically say (and would have lost a job) ~yeah Cam, routes, like the ones you don't study for your players. It's funny to hear you scoff at hearing about routes, because you have only finished one out of 6 of your years hitting routes above 60%. How will your WRs keep you above 60% completion for the rest of the year?~
Cam doesn't get it in regard to being mature on a public stage. He still strikes me as fool who relies on his perceived natural skill set vs. fundamentals.
I've said this before and I have no doubt whatsoever that I will have to say it again: Back about three years ago, Steve Young and Trent Dilfer were talking either at the half or at the end of the game of the week they do, and Steve Young - one of the smartest QBs in the game - said (and Trent, also no dummy, wholeheartedly agreed): Cam doesn't know what he needs to do to be better than his pure physical ability. (These are my words now, though they capture the spirit of the Young/Difler convo): All the great QBs - hell, all the great players at any position - were better than just their physical skills. PHYSICALLY, Tom Brady has no business being the GOAT. Cam will only be as good as his physical ability against the physicality of the other team on that given Sunday, because he will NEVER have the mental edge. He just doesn't know how to put in the work of the intangibles.
It's why they got beat in the Super Bowl, IMO. Denver elevated, Cam and the Panthers did not.
Nailed it.
He's a helluva talent, but as soon as that begins to decline he'll become a salary cap casualty.
Exactly right, and since he won't be good enough with the clipboard, he won't be a viable backup, even to a contending team. He's not that guy to walk on the field cold and dominate whatever situation he's in. He can only dominate when he's the physical superior of the guy across the line from him. That was also, in a slightly different way, my problem with Tony Romo. Physically as gifted as they come. Couldn't elevate.
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It is simple: when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Cam Newton keeps showing us who he is. This is not new.
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It is simple: when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Cam Newton keeps showing us who he is. This is not new.
Heh. I thought I was in the Sons of Apollo thread for a second.
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The same can apply to those jokers as well. :lol :lol
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All of the above is true. Let's not hang him out to dry though like scummier dirtbags who abuse women. On that scale, this comment is a 2 or a 3. And I don't even think calling him a misogynist is fair.
Also, the guy who is all bent because someone called him the N-Word at Arrowhead... when I was a (white, straight, middle-class kid), sticks and stones could break our bones but names could never hurt us.
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All of the above is true. Let's not hang him out to dry though like scummier dirtbags who abuse women. On that scale, this comment is a 2 or a 3. And I don't even think calling him a misogynist is fair.
Also, the guy who is all bent because someone called him the N-Word at Arrowhead... when I was a (white, straight, middle-class kid), sticks and stones could break our bones but names could never hurt us.
While I agree about sticks and stones, I don't have an issue with the player calling attention to the racist asshole. That needs to be gone from the crowds in sporting events. Well, it needs to be gone everywhere, but need to start in places like sporting events where there are kids and many other people. I think others in the stands who hear this happening need to step up as well. It's not cool to do that. Heckle the guy all you want, I love a good heckler who tries to get under players skin at sport events, but racism is not cool or funny and while it may actually be effective on distracting the player, it's flat out wrong. Call the person out for that I say.
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Cam Newton has been in the league since 2011. He has probably been asked hundreds of questions over the years, especially during the MVP/SB season.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the first time that a female reporter brought up routes and it completely threw him off guard.
Not condoning anything. Just trying to look at all angles.
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How did Stadler hijack DOC's account?
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How did Stadler hijack DOC's account?
I was the resident contrarian before Stadler made it cool.
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How did Stadler hijack DOC's account?
I was the resident contrarian before Stadler made it cool.
You were cool before it became contrary. :)
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Cam Newton has been in the league since 2011. He has probably been asked hundreds of questions over the years, especially during the MVP/SB season.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the first time that a female reporter brought up routes and it completely threw him off guard.
Not condoning anything. Just trying to look at all angles.
I dont think he should have said that in that forum, but I personally don't find it that big of a deal. I feel like I did something similar not too long ago when Stadler Axeman and I were having a beer and a few females came by and we started talking and they were going to the Iron Maiden concert as well, and I was like "wow some females who like Maiden". I guess I am a sexist or something, but it surprised me. Not that they don't exist, but I hadn't really come across any in conversation before. Sort of like how Cam probably hadn't gotten asked about routes from a female before. You got to know your audience, and he should know that anything that can be taken as a slight will be taken so, so I think there is fault on him here, but I don't think it should be a big uproar personally.
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But you're at a bar right next to where Maiden is playing. Seems like some girls would go there before the show, no? I think the amazing thing was that a group of girls stopped to talk to you clowns! :P
Cam knows who this person was. He was being his usual douche self.
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She's a professional trying to do a job. I see many women sports writers that know the game better than I.
Like Tim said. Douche move.
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The way he laughed at her was far more insulting than what he actually said.
It's not the crime of the century, but just another example of what a tool Newton is.
As for the game tonight, Winston is awful, but Doug Martin is looking great. Little surprised that the Patriots offense isn't doing better so far. Brady is getting hit a lot.
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The Patriots have issues people.. O line. D Line. LB's. Secondary. No Edelman.
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Yeah the O line looks porous.
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Speaking of porous, there are no words for how bad Winston has been tonight. He looks like hot garbage.
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hot garbage.
Sounds like a good name for a punk band...
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There wasn't a red jersey within 12 yards of where Winston unloaded that pass to avoid the safety. Sure liked like grounding to me.
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LOL does Folk know how to choke or what? Game should be tied right now.
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Gotta feel bad for the TB defense. They've played a great game, but are gonna lose because Winston sucks and their kicker couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.
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Come to think of it, TB left another 7 on the field when #84 dropped that TD pass in the end zone. Between that and if Bill O'Brien had any balls NE could have easily been 1-4 after this game. Crazy.
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I still think the front seven is the bigger problem, but somewhere along the line the NE secondary decided it'd be more fun to hit people than actually tackle them. Too many big play YAKs because Chung and Rowe bounce off of receivers instead of wrapping them up. Between that, shoddy tackling up front, and stupid penalties it just reeks of Indiscipline. Wouldn't mind seeing somebody from this team start their next game for Cleveland.
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I still think the front seven is the bigger problem, but somewhere along the line the NE secondary decided it'd be more fun to hit people than actually tackle them. Too many big play YAKs because Chung and Rowe bounce off of receivers instead of wrapping them up. Between that, shoddy tackling up front, and stupid penalties it just reeks of Indiscipline. Wouldn't mind seeing somebody from this team start their next game for Cleveland.
And Nick Folk wishes he was good enough to start for Cleveland.
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Times have changed.
I was a security guard at the Hartford Civic Center when I was in college. The Los Angeles Kings came to the Civic Center to play the Whale, and I had the privilege (I guess?) of working the locker room for the Kings. I remember the "pack" of reporters circling around Gretsky*, and after he left, circling around I think it was Mario Gosselin (don't quote me on that; it was a French Canadian is all I remember) and he was facing one direction, standing nude, talking to about five or six reporters, with another five or six behind him. One of the reporters behind him asked a question and he turned, and in doing so, was face-to-face with a female reporter. As he turned, you could see him with a gym sock on his penis, ala The Red Hot Chili Peppers. To her credit, she kept eyes up and didn't register, but I can imagine that there are fewer jobs harder than being a female "side-line" (i.e. on the spot) reporter covering sports like football and hockey that are to date very male-oriented sports.
* Gretzky taught me something. Well, two things: one, he WAS "The Greatest". I played hockey up into college, and I was lucky enough to see Bossy, Lemieaux, Messier, and Howe (among others) and I have watched hundreds of hours of game tape, and watching him play was like watched Usain Bolt run against nine senior citizens from the old folks home. He was literally playing a different game. Two, at that level, you don't operate like "everyone else". He was first back into the locker room, and knew he was the guy that everyone wanted to talk to, so he made sure he was showered and dressed before most of his team even had their jerseys off, and answered what I'm sure he has been asked 1000 times before as if it was both the best question he's ever gotten and the first time he's ever gotten it. Blown away by how professional and how prepared he was for not only the game, but also the environment of being "The Greatest".
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Yeah, years later I'm still kind of bitter my application to be a Women's Tennis Association locker-room reporter was rejected. Feminist swine.
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In fairness, I tried to tell you that uncontrolled drooling while handing in the application was not a good look.
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Cam Newton has been in the league since 2011. He has probably been asked hundreds of questions over the years, especially during the MVP/SB season.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the first time that a female reporter brought up routes and it completely threw him off guard.
Not condoning anything. Just trying to look at all angles.
I dont think he should have said that in that forum, but I personally don't find it that big of a deal. I feel like I did something similar not too long ago when Stadler Axeman and I were having a beer and a few females came by and we started talking and they were going to the Iron Maiden concert as well, and I was like "wow some females who like Maiden". I guess I am a sexist or something, but it surprised me. Not that they don't exist, but I hadn't really come across any in conversation before. Sort of like how Cam probably hadn't gotten asked about routes from a female before. You got to know your audience, and he should know that anything that can be taken as a slight will be taken so, so I think there is fault on him here, but I don't think it should be a big uproar personally.
I think the difference there is that he was implying that it was surprising to hear a woman talking about route running because women wouldn't know that much about the intricacies of football (objective knowledge), whereas music is a much more subjective experience.
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I agree, I think I was also pointing at "there's a time and a place" such as, being on a podium, you don't make those comments or laugh, whereas in a bar, I wouldn't necessarily say it's appropriate, but much more informal and no spotlight and I didn't think the words Cam said were so bad or wrong ( I didn't watch the clip, just read the quotes, so I missed the laugh) but more of where he said it and I would add, how he said it, as well because I think, I myself might have a similar reaction to a female talking the intricacies of the sport, and I know I've said so to a female I dated before who was much more into football than I was who didn't get offended, but we were also in a bar.
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Carson Wentz does not look like a 2nd year QB. He is on track to be elite.
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The league is in good hands with a lot of really good young signal callers. I think Wentz and Prescott will both in the next 2-3 years be in that top tier, and Goff is showing early this season why he was the 1st pick. Carr and Mariotta could both make it, but QBs who are as injury-prone as they are showing themselves to be are rarely elite.
Their upside is limited because of who their QB is, but that Jags D is legit. On the flip side, has Roethlisberger hit the wall? The eye test sure seems to say so.
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The league is in good hands with a lot of really good young signal callers. I think Wentz and Prescott will both in the next 2-3 years be in that top tier, and Goff is showing early this season why he was the 1st pick. Carr and Mariotta could both make it, but QBs who are as injury-prone as they are showing themselves to be are rarely elite.
Their upside is limited because of who their QB is, but that Jags D is legit. On the flip side, has Roethlisberger hit the wall? The eye test sure seems to say so.
I totally agree Kev.
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I think Wilson was just on the cusp of being elite for a while, but the organization has completely let him down and now I am not sure he will ever get there.
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No doubt. He's running for his life. I feel the same way aboutLuck. The organization has let him down as well.
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While I'm certainly happy to see the Giant's season collapse out from under them, it's a shame to see ODB2 go down. Always a loss when somebody so exciting goes out.
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On the flip side, has Roethlisberger hit the wall? The eye test sure seems to say so.
Yes. He's still better than average at times, but the beating that he's taken over the years is beginning to take its toll. The physical attributes that he used to be able to rely on are diminishing, and I think that a change of focus in the team's offensive scheme is in order. They need to return to being a more balanced attack like they were when they had the bus, and Ben entered the league. This isn't the first time that we've seen a QB approach the end of their career to become much more reliant on their ground game. However, the problem with that is that rather than divide the workload on a set of RB's, Tomlin likes to run the wheels off of one guy at a time. In turn, the team is usually hurting at the position by the time that the post season comes around.
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Is Oakland's defense that bad, or did the Ravens just have 'one of those days'? Haven't seen Baltimore look that good offensively since Kubiak was the OC.
Maybe it was going back to white shoes :tup
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Aaron Rodgers = :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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J.J. Watt = Gronk.
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I wouldn't go that far yet. Gonk hasn't played 16 games due to injury for five out the six past years, already counting this year. This is however two years of apparently huge injuries for Watt, and not that far into either of the years.
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Anyone see the video of the Dolphin's line coach snorting right some 'powder' before a coaches meeting? I can't stop laughing at the banter he's got going lol. Not going to link here but the ending line is classic.
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Anyone see the video of the Dolphin's line coach snorting right some 'powder' before a coaches meeting? I can't stop laughing at the banter he's got going lol. Not going to link here but the ending line is classic.
I’ll have to check it when I get home, I saw it mentioned on Mike&Mike while I was at the gym. They thought it was terrible (choice).
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On the flip side, has Roethlisberger hit the wall? The eye test sure seems to say so.
Yes. He's still better than average at times, but the beating that he's taken over the years is beginning to take its toll. The physical attributes that he used to be able to rely on are diminishing, and I think that a change of focus in the team's offensive scheme is in order. They need to return to being a more balanced attack like they were when they had the bus, and Ben entered the league. This isn't the first time that we've seen a QB approach the end of their career to become much more reliant on their ground game. However, the problem with that is that rather than divide the workload on a set of RB's, Tomlin likes to run the wheels off of one guy at a time. In turn, the team is usually hurting at the position by the time that the post season comes around.
I agree. He's definitely playing below expectation, but with the surrounding cast, it frankly shouldn't matter. Someone needs to inform Haley he has the most loaded offense in the league, the season is over a quarter of the way done, and he still has yet to figure out an identity for his unit and/or how to actually utilize the weapons he has effectively.
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Aaron Rodgers = :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
:tup :tup :tup
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I agree. He's definitely playing below expectation, but with the surrounding cast, it frankly shouldn't matter. Someone needs to inform Haley he has the most loaded offense in the league, the season is over a quarter of the way done, and he still has yet to figure out an identity for his unit and/or how to actually utilize the weapons he has effectively.
Todd Haley is always the whipping boy of Steelers fans when things aren't going well. :lol :lol
I think the beginning of the 4th quarter told the tale. 20-9, Jags have the ball at their own 2, and they run it on every down to get into FG range and extend the lead, killing over half of the 4th quarter clock in the process. At some point, the head coach has to be held responsible, no?
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I agree. He's definitely playing below expectation, but with the surrounding cast, it frankly shouldn't matter. Someone needs to inform Haley he has the most loaded offense in the league, the season is over a quarter of the way done, and he still has yet to figure out an identity for his unit and/or how to actually utilize the weapons he has effectively.
Todd Haley is always the whipping boy of Steelers fans when things aren't going well. :lol :lol
I think the beginning of the 4th quarter told the tale. 20-9, Jags have the ball at their own 2, and they run it on every down to get into FG range and extend the lead, killing over half of the 4th quarter clock in the process. At some point, the head coach has to be held responsible, no?
I don't hate Tomlin. Much of the fan base despises him, but the answer is yes. The problem, in this case, lies at the top. I hope he gets it figured out soon.
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It's rarely, if ever, ONE PERSON, though the change out of one person can often be the spark to get things going. I don't watch them close enough to know which change is the most needed, but when even Ben wonders - out loud - whether he's lost it, that's indicative (and I'm a Ben fan, so that isn't a knock on him).
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It's rarely, if ever, ONE PERSON, though the change out of one person can often be the spark to get things going. I don't watch them close enough to know which change is the most needed, but when even Ben wonders - out loud - whether he's lost it, that's indicative (and I'm a Ben fan, so that isn't a knock on him).
Yeah, I agree. And I love Ben (the player) too..
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I agree. He's definitely playing below expectation, but with the surrounding cast, it frankly shouldn't matter. Someone needs to inform Haley he has the most loaded offense in the league, the season is over a quarter of the way done, and he still has yet to figure out an identity for his unit and/or how to actually utilize the weapons he has effectively.
Todd Haley is always the whipping boy of Steelers fans when things aren't going well. :lol :lol
I think the beginning of the 4th quarter told the tale. 20-9, Jags have the ball at their own 2, and they run it on every down to get into FG range and extend the lead, killing over half of the 4th quarter clock in the process. At some point, the head coach has to be held responsible, no?
I don't disagree. Tomlin is Haley's boss, so yeah... And I don't mean to harp on Haley, but seriously, there is valid criticism for him at this point.
It's rarely, if ever, ONE PERSON, though the change out of one person can often be the spark to get things going. I don't watch them close enough to know which change is the most needed, but when even Ben wonders - out loud - whether he's lost it, that's indicative (and I'm a Ben fan, so that isn't a knock on him).
Yeah, I agree. And I love Ben (the player) too..
You guys know he was frustrated and just trying to be accountable for a really bad game, right? I think the media is blowing this one out of proportion, I wouldn't read into it beyond that.
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I don't hate Tomlin. Much of the fan base despises him, but the answer is yes. The problem, in this case, lies at the top. I hope he gets it figured out soon.
I think, at this point, Tomlin is who he is as a coach. Like Colin Cowherd often says, the Steelers under him are never "buttoned up." Heck, Roethlisberger has taken several indirect shots at him in the past year. I think Ben is frustrated at seeing his last years play out on a team that often looks unprepared and/or unfocused.
Tomlin is Haley's boss, so yeah... And I don't mean to harp on Haley, but seriously, there is valid criticism for him at this point.
I think the coaches, starting with Tomlin, are too worried about keeping Antonio Brown happy. He throws that tantrum last week, and boom, gets 19 targets the following game. Between his FB nonsense last year in the playoffs and his tantrum last week, Brown gets away with everything, and Tomlin refuses to do anything to get him to knock it off. Can you imagine a player pulling that nonsense under Belichick??
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Makes me so happy seeing you credit Belichick Kev. Lol
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I don't hate Tomlin. Much of the fan base despises him, but the answer is yes. The problem, in this case, lies at the top. I hope he gets it figured out soon.
I think, at this point, Tomlin is who he is as a coach. Like Colin Cowherd often says, the Steelers under him are never "buttoned up." Heck, Roethlisberger has taken several indirect shots at him in the past year. I think Ben is frustrated at seeing his last years play out on a team that often looks unprepared and/or unfocused.
Tomlin is Haley's boss, so yeah... And I don't mean to harp on Haley, but seriously, there is valid criticism for him at this point.
I think the coaches, starting with Tomlin, are too worried about keeping Antonio Brown happy. He throws that tantrum last week, and boom, gets 19 targets the following game. Between his FB nonsense last year in the playoffs and his tantrum last week, Brown gets away with everything, and Tomlin refuses to do anything to get him to knock it off. Can you imagine a player pulling that nonsense under Belichick??
I miss Bill Cowher. He wasn't anymore successful than Tomlin has been, but I prefer how he handled these kinds of situations. He was too much of a hard-ass to allow these kinds of things.
That being said, I do believe it's within Tomlin's power to right the ship. When jobs get put on the line it could be the perfect situation to see what he's made of.
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Makes me so happy seeing you credit Belichick Kev. Lol
:lol
In case anyone missed it..
Can you imagine a player pulling that nonsense under Belichick??
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Post-Week 5 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. Kansas City - lost in their 5-0 start is that there was their toughest 5-game stretch of the season
2. Philadelphia - they continue to impress everywhere
3. Washington - can they get their record to reflect how good they have looked?
4. Carolina - back to back road wins at NE and Detroit, and Newton all of a sudden looks like the 2015 version again
5. Denver - can they win on the road? We will find out soon.
6. Green Bay - no words left for how good Aaron Rodgers is
7. LA Rams - despite the tough loss, this is still a team on the rise
8. Jacksonville - unbelievably, this team is 2nd in the NFL in point differential; imagine if they had a real QB!
9. New England - ugly win over TB, but now there are reports that Brady's shoulder is banged up; is this the beginning?
10. Seattle - that o-line is god-awful, but any team with Russell Wilson and that D has a chance
Trending Up
NY Jets - 3 wins in a row???!!!!
Minnesota - fought back to over .500, but their upside is limited with Case Keenum at QB
New Orleans - got rid of the dead weight that was old man Adrian Peterson
Cincinnati - can they get back in it?
Buffalo - despite the loss, this is still a team doing better than expected
Trending Down
Dallas - offensive line simply does not as dominant this year
Oakland - getting Carr back will help, but what has happened to Amari Cooper?
Tennessee - have to be considered one of the biggest disappointments thus far
Tampa Bay - just when I thought they were on the rise, Winston plays like Ryan Leaf for most of the game
Pittsburgh - should survive enough to win that division, but this team has a lot of issues
Bottom 5
28. Chicago - more growing pains coming from the rookie
30. Indianapolis - 2-3 on the way to 5-11
30 . NY Giants - they should tank, get a new coach, and draft a new QB
31. San Francisco - on pace to either sign Cousins or get one of the top QBs in next year's draft
32. Cleveland - they are somehow getting worse
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Aaron Rodgers - take him away and this team is quite possibly 0-5
2. Alex Smith - playing out of his mind thus far
3. Carson Wentz - this guy has superstar written all over him
4. Tom Brady - will likely move up as the Patriots win more games, assuming he stays healthy
5. Kareem Hunt - not just the rookie of the year, but the best RB this year so far and a major difference maker
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Makes me so happy seeing you credit Belichick Kev. Lol
Hey now, I always give Belichick props. The guy is the best coach ever.
I miss Bill Cowher. He wasn't anymore successful than Tomlin has been, but I prefer how he handled these kinds of situations. He was too much of a hard-ass to allow these kinds of things.
Imagine if Cowher had a QB the caliber of Roethlisberger for all of his career like Tomlin has. I am actually shocked he hasn't made the Hall of Fame yet.
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30 . NY Giants - they should tank, get a new coach, and draft a new QB
Pretty much how I feel about this team. They are done this year and McAdoo has been shown he is outcoached consistenty. I think it's time for a full house clean starting with the GM Reese who knew they had OL issues and did nothing to fix it, maybe because he was hoping his draft pick (Flowers) would get things going, but he's terrible. I think Eli still has something left, but they should get a top notch QB to ride the coattails next season and depending on if Eli can mesh with the new coach, then maybe he can keep playing another year after.
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KC looks for real buy I also know I have to say "Prove me this in the playoffs KC".
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Sergio Dipp will work the sidelines of the Pats-Raiders game in Mexico City.
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Sergio Dipp will work the sidelines of the Pats-Raiders game in Mexico City.
And he will have the time of his life.
Pretty much how I feel about this team. They are done this year and McAdoo has been shown he is outcoached consistenty. I think it's time for a full house clean starting with the GM Reese who knew they had OL issues and did nothing to fix it, maybe because he was hoping his draft pick (Flowers) would get things going, but he's terrible. I think Eli still has something left, but they should get a top notch QB to ride the coattails next season and depending on if Eli can mesh with the new coach, then maybe he can keep playing another year after.
Eli is too much of statue back there now. Might as well get a young QB who has some upside. Eli has been trash for several years now, except for having Beckham there to jack up his stats.
KC looks for real buy I also know I have to say "Prove me this in the playoffs KC".
Yep, that is the way it goes when you do not have a proven track record. Barring injuries, I don't see how they don't get the 1 seed in the AFC.
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Unless they just fall apart, they are the one seed.
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I don't hate Tomlin. Much of the fan base despises him, but the answer is yes. The problem, in this case, lies at the top. I hope he gets it figured out soon.
I think, at this point, Tomlin is who he is as a coach. Like Colin Cowherd often says, the Steelers under him are never "buttoned up." Heck, Roethlisberger has taken several indirect shots at him in the past year. I think Ben is frustrated at seeing his last years play out on a team that often looks unprepared and/or unfocused.
Tomlin is Haley's boss, so yeah... And I don't mean to harp on Haley, but seriously, there is valid criticism for him at this point.
I think the coaches, starting with Tomlin, are too worried about keeping Antonio Brown happy. He throws that tantrum last week, and boom, gets 19 targets the following game. Between his FB nonsense last year in the playoffs and his tantrum last week, Brown gets away with everything, and Tomlin refuses to do anything to get him to knock it off. Can you imagine a player pulling that nonsense under Belichick??
I miss Bill Cowher. He wasn't anymore successful than Tomlin has been, but I prefer how he handled these kinds of situations. He was too much of a hard-ass to allow these kinds of things.
That being said, I do believe it's within Tomlin's power to right the ship. When jobs get put on the line it could be the perfect situation to see what he's made of.
Couple of things. First off, I think Ben is frustrated with several things Steelers-related at the moment. Tomlin is one, AB is definitely one. And I think he's clearly frustrated with himself, and rightfully so. Second, it should be clear to most at this point that AB is a distraction at best, a locker room cancer at worst and has zero interest in winning, only interest in his own gain. How many SBs have the Steelers won with AB? Oh yeah, none... and they clearly don't look like they are on the brink of doing so. And lastly, no way Cowher would have put up with this stuff, but that said, every coach is different and handles these things differently.
Imagine if Cowher had a QB the caliber of Roethlisberger for all of his career like Tomlin has. I am actually shocked he hasn't made the Hall of Fame yet.
Bingo. Cowher had years and years of horrible talent to work with at QB (Slash!!), if Bill had Ben through the entirety of Ben's career I'd wager Ben would have possibly 4 championships at this point rather than 2. And in terms of championships, 4 is way, way more than 2.
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Makes me so happy seeing you credit Belichick Kev. Lol
Hey now, I always give Belichick props. The guy is the best coach ever.
I miss Bill Cowher. He wasn't anymore successful than Tomlin has been, but I prefer how he handled these kinds of situations. He was too much of a hard-ass to allow these kinds of things.
Imagine if Cowher had a QB the caliber of Roethlisberger for all of his career like Tomlin has. I am actually shocked he hasn't made the Hall of Fame yet.
I actually wanted to say this. I don't have anything against Tomlin, though I don't like his "wolf pack" mentality as a coach, but this is where coaching comes into play. Would you rather have Yngwie - really, REALLY good at one thing, and pretty much one thing only, or would you rather have Steve Morse or Steve Howe - very good at most everything in that context. I think Tomlin is a Super Bowl coach when everything aligns for him. Players are healthy, no controversy, etc. I think Cowher is a Super Bowl coach even when NOTHING is aligning for him.
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While I'm certainly happy to see the Giant's season collapse out from under them, it's a shame to see ODB2 go down. Always a loss when somebody so exciting goes out.
He's a good player but highly immature. Maybe the injury will humble him and give him time to grow up a little.
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I don't hate Tomlin. Much of the fan base despises him, but the answer is yes. The problem, in this case, lies at the top. I hope he gets it figured out soon.
I think, at this point, Tomlin is who he is as a coach. Like Colin Cowherd often says, the Steelers under him are never "buttoned up." Heck, Roethlisberger has taken several indirect shots at him in the past year. I think Ben is frustrated at seeing his last years play out on a team that often looks unprepared and/or unfocused.
Tomlin is Haley's boss, so yeah... And I don't mean to harp on Haley, but seriously, there is valid criticism for him at this point.
I think the coaches, starting with Tomlin, are too worried about keeping Antonio Brown happy. He throws that tantrum last week, and boom, gets 19 targets the following game. Between his FB nonsense last year in the playoffs and his tantrum last week, Brown gets away with everything, and Tomlin refuses to do anything to get him to knock it off. Can you imagine a player pulling that nonsense under Belichick??
I miss Bill Cowher. He wasn't anymore successful than Tomlin has been, but I prefer how he handled these kinds of situations. He was too much of a hard-ass to allow these kinds of things.
That being said, I do believe it's within Tomlin's power to right the ship. When jobs get put on the line it could be the perfect situation to see what he's made of.
Couple of things. First off, I think Ben is frustrated with several things Steelers-related at the moment. Tomlin is one, AB is definitely one. And I think he's clearly frustrated with himself, and rightfully so. Second, it should be clear to most at this point that AB is a distraction at best, a locker room cancer at worst and has zero interest in winning, only interest in his own gain. How many SBs have the Steelers won with AB? Oh yeah, none... and they clearly don't look like they are on the brink of doing so. And lastly, no way Cowher would have put up with this stuff, but that said, every coach is different and handles these things differently.
Imagine if Cowher had a QB the caliber of Roethlisberger for all of his career like Tomlin has. I am actually shocked he hasn't made the Hall of Fame yet.
Bingo. Cowher had years and years of horrible talent to work with at QB (Slash!!), if Bill had Ben through the entirety of Ben's career I'd wager Ben would have possibly 4 championships at this point rather than 2. And in terms of championships, 4 is way, way more than 2.
I hold a very unpopular opinion when it comes to the qb's that the team had prior to Ben while under Cowher. I don't think that they are as bad as most people think. Neil O'Donnell was a great fit for the team, and if he hadn't left after the super bowl season I believe that they would have went to another.
As far as Kordell Stewart goes, yes he was a disappointment, but he played mvp caliber football the year that Tom Brady emerged and beat them in the afc championship.
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I hold a very unpopular opinion when it comes to the qb's that the team had prior to Ben while under Cowher. I don't think that they are as bad as most people think. Neil O'Donnell was a great fit for the team, and if he hadn't left after the super bowl season I believe that they would have went to another.
As far as Kordell Stewart goes, yes he was a disappointment, but he played mvp caliber football the year that Tom Brady emerged and beat them in the afc championship.
Fair points. I wasn't a fan of Neil and outside of that one really killer year, Stewart was average at best. But good point about Brady, I forget sometimes that he's been killing the Steelers for that long. That was what, 15 or 16 years ago?
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I hold a very unpopular opinion when it comes to the qb's that the team had prior to Ben while under Cowher. I don't think that they are as bad as most people think. Neil O'Donnell was a great fit for the team, and if he hadn't left after the super bowl season I believe that they would have went to another.
As far as Kordell Stewart goes, yes he was a disappointment, but he played mvp caliber football the year that Tom Brady emerged and beat them in the afc championship.
Fair points. I wasn't a fan of Neil and outside of that one really killer year, Stewart was average at best. But good point about Brady, I forget sometimes that he's been killing the Steelers for that long. That was what, 15 or 16 years ago?
Off the top of my head, I want to say it was January 2002. It was the game after the infamous tuck rule game between the Raiders and patriots. I could have the year wrong, though. I think the steelers had a really great record in the regular season that year.
Something else that sticks in mind about that game is that Jerome Bettis got a pain injection just prior to kick off, and whoever gave it to him screwed up and hit an artery. He couldn't play that day.
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Googled it. We were close, it was 2001. 2002 was the year he got benched for big bad Tommy Maddox.
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Cowher had years and years of horrible talent to work with at QB (Slash!!), if Bill had Ben through the entirety of Ben's career I'd wager Ben would have possibly 4 championships at this point rather than 2. And in terms of championships, 4 is way, way more than 2.
I think a big part of Ben bemoans not having a great coach for most of his career. He was spoiled by Cowher early on, and now it is galling for him to play the Patriots and see them always get taken apart because they are so always so well coached and prepared. He has to be thinking, "Dang, what if I had had that coach for my whole career."
I don't have anything against Tomlin, though I don't like his "wolf pack" mentality as a coach, but this is where coaching comes into play. Would you rather have Yngwie - really, REALLY good at one thing, and pretty much one thing only, or would you rather have Steve Morse or Steve Howe - very good at most everything in that context. I think Tomlin is a Super Bowl coach when everything aligns for him. Players are healthy, no controversy, etc. I think Cowher is a Super Bowl coach even when NOTHING is aligning for him.
Agreed. I mean, Cowher got to a Super Bowl with Neil O'Donnell as his QB and was thisclose to beating the Cowboys dynasty in that Super Bowl (if not for said QB throwing a horrible pick at the end).
As far as Kordell Stewart goes, yes he was a disappointment, but he played mvp caliber football the year that Tom Brady emerged and beat them in the afc championship.
Yep, and he was really good in '97 until they lost to the Broncos in the AFCCG.
Shoot, they lost that game in '01 thanks to the Patriots getting a blocked FG for a TD (that was possibly an illegal forward lateral) and a punt return for a TD.
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While I'm certainly happy to see the Giant's season collapse out from under them, it's a shame to see ODB2 go down. Always a loss when somebody so exciting goes out.
He's a good player but highly immature. Maybe the injury will humble him and give him time to grow up a little.
As a Giants fan and watching him from the beginning I’d be shocked if this humbled him at all. This guys talent is through the roof, but unfortunately he has gotten more and more immature over time. He is all about himself and he has proved that time and time again. I blame the coaches as well as from the time he became a Giant they have let this guy do whatever the hell he wants with no consequences and at this point I really feel like he’s too far gone to change.
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I just seen that Zeke Elliot lost his court case, and will start a 6 game suspension. Any thoughts on what this might mean for the team? I haven't seen any Cowboys games this year, and I have no idea how good of a season he's having.
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I just seen that Zeke Elliot lost his court case, and will start a 6 game suspension. Any thoughts on what this might mean for the team? I haven't seen any Cowboys games this year, and I have no idea how good of a season he's having.
He's already appealing it again. They're on a bye this week, and it would not surprise me to see the suspension put on hold all over again. It's all up in the air right now.
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Carson Wentz is really good and is just gonna get better.
Cam Newton is still a crappy passer.
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An ugly win but 5-1 is awesome!
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Cam Newton is still a crappy passer.
And a loser. That's a terrible combination. When things turn South he resigns himself, rather than getting fired up and trying to take the game back. Most quarterbacks would be really embarrassed about that last drive. Doubt he thinks much of it.
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Yep, unless the refs called another chicken shit PI against Philly on either of those last two drives, I didn't think for a second that Newton would lead them down the field for a TD. He was just chucking passes all over, with seemingly no clue how to run a 2-minute offense. He is so easy to root against. I still take great pleasure in the Broncos having won that Super Bowl early last year by knocking the crap out of Newton, making him curl up like a sissy for that fumble, and then seeing him act like a crybaby in the post-game presser. So satisfying. :coolio :hat
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LOL Panthers. They had that game in the bag. Superman strikes again. Nothing more boring than watching the Beagles win. :\ :yeahright
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Yep, unless the refs called another chicken shit PI against Philly on either of those last two drives, I didn't think for a second that Newton would lead them down the field for a TD. He was just chucking passes all over, with seemingly no clue how to run a 2-minute offense. He is so easy to root against. I still take great pleasure in the Broncos having won that Super Bowl early last year by knocking the crap out of Newton, making him curl up like a sissy for that fumble, and then seeing him act like a crybaby in the post-game presser. So satisfying. :coolio :hat
I couldn't have expressed my feelings on the matter any better than that. Perfectly said.
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Yup. He should probably understand WTF a "rowt" is before he busts someone else's chops.
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Cam in the post game presser:
"It's funny hearing female reporters talk about interceptions."
Okay, not really, but you can picture it. :lol :lol
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On Sunday, Russel Wilson through what should have been a game winning pick-six. He chased the guy down nearly 70 yards to save the game. Nobody could imagine Cam Newton doing that, boy has no heart, but more important is that the idea wouldn't even occur to him. He's just not a good football player.
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/350x650q90/922/kNGdfw.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pmkNGdfwj)
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:lol
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Man, without St. Rogers I reckon Green Bay is a 4-12 team. They better hope he's alright.
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Man, without St. Rogers Edelman I reckon Green Bay New England is a 4-12 team.
Apparently.
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I would ask if Edelman plays defense, but it appears as if no one on New England plays defense this year. :lol
The injury to Rodgers sucks. Hate to see the best player in the league get hurt.
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Man, without St. Rogers Edelman I reckon Green Bay New England is a 4-12 team.
Apparently.
Edelman's not their problem. Least of their concerns. They're undisciplined as fuck. That's their problem.
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That McCown pass to burn Butler was a thing of beauty.
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Man, without St. Rogers Edelman I reckon Green Bay New England is a 4-12 team.
Apparently.
Edelman's not their problem. Least of their concerns. They're undisciplined as fuck. That's their problem.
Yeah, I was just playing on words. They are a total f'n mess.
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I haven't seen a Pats defense not disciplined like this in a long, long.
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I haven't seen a Pats defense not disciplined like this in a long, long.
When 2 yard runs always become 7 yard runs because you miss tackles you're going to lose every time. Miscommunications in the secondary are going to happen. Sometimes a QB/WR are going to burn you. These things happen. That's why you can't afford to give up plays by blowing the easy stuff.
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Officials are on their side today, though.
Picked up a flag on a helmet to helmet that halted a Jets drive that could have given them a 3-score lead.
And just called a bull shit PI on the Jets in the end zone that basically gifted them 7.
Yay for the NFL. :tdwn :tdwn
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Right. If they lose, they definitely can't bitch about the officials. At least not at this point.
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The injury to Rodgers sucks. Hate to see the best player in the league get hurt.
It does suck indeed. It really bugged me though that there was even a conversation about whether the hit should have been a penalty. It was a clean hit that the player followed through until the QB was down. Rogers was obviously upset about it. It bugs me so much how QBs are babied and how much they expect the be babied.
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Another great call by the officials! ;D
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Looks like Kraft is calling in some "you owe me" favors.
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Looks like Kraft is calling in some "you owe me" favors.
What is this Chinese you're speaking?
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Looks like Kraft is calling in some "you owe me" favors.
(https://www.cityam.com/assets/uploads/main-image/cam_narrow_article_main_image/divisional-playoffs-baltimore-ravens-v-new-england-patriots-461285732-569a24150bdae.jpg)
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Don’t count out the Patriots so soon. Nobody is better at making in game adjustments than Belichick. As much as I hate the Patriots and was so happy to see my Jets jump out to a 14-0 lead, there’s virtually no way New England loses this game.
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See that shot of Kraft in the box pointing after that last TD? If you can read lips like I can, you would have seen him mouthing, "That official there is the one I had to pay this week..." :lol :biggrin:
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:lol
Actually the guy with him is Les Moonves. Big gun at CBS. Why isnt Hewitt Woody Johnson?
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Thanks again, Roger!
(https://www.cityam.com/assets/uploads/main-image/cam_narrow_article_main_image/divisional-playoffs-baltimore-ravens-v-new-england-patriots-461285732-569a24150bdae.jpg)
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Jets got screwed. That's a TD.
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What a farce. I don't really think games are fixed, but I can see how someone might think this game is. That is now three significant calls that were wrong that have either taken points away from the Jets or given points to the Patriots.
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What a farce. I don't really think games are fixed, but I can see how someone might think this game is. That is now three significant calls that were wrong that have either taken points away from the Jets or given points to the Patriots.
Who’s dick did Belichick suck to get these refs so firmly on his side? Unreal. That fumble call is one of the worst officiating decisions I have ever seen.
Jets got screwed. That's a TD.
See? Even a Patriots fan agrees.
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These stupid interpretations of the rules to the minut second watching reviews is ruining the game
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These stupid interpretations of the rules to the minut second watching reviews is ruining the game
Completely agreed. Congratulations on the win. The refs screwed the Jets but the Patriots played well so I can’t be mad I’m happy with the way my team fought. Good game between these two as usual.
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Crazy start to the Rams-Jags game. Two touchdowns, one apiece, with just 25 seconds off the game clock. 7-7 tied.
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Wait a minute guys. Whoever made the call decided that as the ball crossed the plane of the end zone, the Jet did not have possession. I mean, there was a point in that play where he did NOT have possession. The ball was LOOSE. If he comes down with it, but is out of bounds, then it's a touchback.
To me, whether the call on the field was a TD or a TB, I just don't think there was inconclusive evidence to overturn the original call, EITHER way. Maybe the angle that was made to use the call will be revealed.
Belichick has been clamoring for Pylon Cameras for years. It would've come in handy here.
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Dude. It was a gift. Take it quietly and enjoy. :biggrin:
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Dude. It was a gift. Take it quietly and enjoy. :biggrin:
It was a gift.
Look, I really don't care. I'm home on Sundays now, so I watch the Pats, and like to comment in the thread. But don't confuse me with a footy pajama wearing Pats toadie.
I'm just saying, let's not all bitch for bitching's sake. It is not inconceivable that the ball was loose AS it crossed the plane.
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Well sure, not like I think you are wearing anything but Winger pajamas and Skid Row underoos...;)
The ball did appear to be loose for a split second, but he appeared to gain control before going out of bounds, but because it was impossible to tell, overturning the call on the field should not have happened...and the call on the field was TD. Throw that in with the two earlier calls that totally screwed the Jets, and I would be hopping mad if I were a Jets fans (and something besides my own team for a change :lol).
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but because it was impossible to tell, overturning the call on the field should not have happened...
I TOTALLY agree with this.
Well sure, not like I think you are wearing anything but Winger pajamas and Skid Row underoos...;)
I totally DON'T agree with this! :lol
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:lol
Is is a touchback because he doesn't have control going over the goalline yet he had control without the ball hitting the ground and him having control hitting the pylon? To me, the league can'y get into that split second details that to the eye is not 100% correct or sure even with replay.
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I wouldn't have overturned it, myself, but I can see what their thought process was. If the ball was loose when he crossed the pylon then it was the right call. Didn't seem that way to me, but whatever, I'm not a referee. I just don't think it's as egregious as the talking heads do. Often times the guys in the booth make something seem far more outrageous than it actually is. It didn't help that Fouts had already established himself as an idiot.
In any case, shitty calls happen. They happen to everybody. Such is life. Take them when they come your way. Bitch when they don't. Act like it's some grand conspiracy then just go back to watching WWE.
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I wouldn't have overturned it, myself, but I can see what their thought process was. If the ball was loose when he crossed the pylon then it was the right call. Didn't seem that way to me, but whatever, I'm not a referee. I just don't think it's as egregious as the talking heads do. Often times the guys in the booth make something seem far more outrageous than it actually is. It didn't help that Fouts had already established himself as an idiot.
In any case, shitty calls happen. They happen to everybody. Such is life. Take them when they come your way. Bitch when they don't. Act like it's some grand conspiracy then just go back to watching WWE.
I think we as fans hate this to the microsecond call that takes away from the athleticism that we just saw. Or I'm an old stubborn bastard that hates replay.
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So you're OK with wrong calls being made?
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So you're OK with wrong calls being made?
How were you Tim in the 80's when you would see that play and think that was an awesome, athletic play for a TD? I think micro managing with all these added rules have taken away from the game.
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Geting a call right is important, but nowadays it's like, what is possession? What is pass interference? The answer to those questions not only vary from game to game. but play to play. It has made a farce out of the league.
Oh, and as if the SB collapse wasn't bad enough, the Falcons blew a 17-point lead today...at home...to Jay Cutler. :eek :eek :rollin :rollin
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Yup kev. It's so convoluted with the rules and the calls it's hard to back them.
Yes, Atlanta, WTF?! :lol
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So you're OK with wrong calls being made?
How were you Tim in the 80's when you would see that play and think that was an awesome, athletic play for a TD? I think micro managing with all these added rules have taken away from the game.
How was I in the 80's?? :rollin
Wut? :lol
Younger? :neverusethis:
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Geting a call right is important, but nowadays it's like, what is possession? What is pass interference? The answer to those questions not only vary from game to game. but play to play. It has made a farce out of the league.
This is a valid point, though I wouldn't go so far as to call the game farcical.
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So you're OK with wrong calls being made?
How were you Tim in the 80's when you would see that play and think that was an awesome, athletic play for a TD? I think micro managing with all these added rules have taken away from the game.
How was I in the 80's?? :rollin
Wut? :lol
Younger? :neverusethis:
You dummy. :lol It never bothered you back in the day if the guy had complete control of the ball as long as it didn't hit the ground. That's just one instance to the issue.
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That Vikings defender definitely drove Rodgers into the ground unnecessarily. Sucks. Love watching Wizard Rodgers.
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Yes, Atlanta, WTF?! :lol
Like I have said before, Matt Ryan coming back to earth was one of the most obvious things that was gonna happen this year (he has always been about the 8th-12th best QB, with last year being the outlier). Despite his brain dead moment in the SB, Shanahan is a great OC and losing him was big.
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KC has been the best team through five weeks, but they are getting clowned at home today by Pittsburgh. Hard to believe the score is only 12-3.
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Just goes to show how wonky NFL teams/games are getting every year. Doesn't take much to go from hero to zero (or vice versa) in a mere 7 days... then back again in another 7 days.
:dunno:
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The KC-Pit game is far from over. The Steelers have outplayed them easily, but if you let a good team hang around anything can and will happen.
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Anthony Barr should be suspended eternally
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Not his fault Aaron Rodgers walked into A. Barr
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So he should be Barred?
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At the very least, he should have to take a Barr exam and make sure he knows what a clean hit looks like.
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It's unfortunate that in this day and age a QB can't run out of the pocket and should throw it away because guys 275 lb can run faster than they can. A guy like him too important scramble for first down.
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It's unfortunate that in this day and age a QB can't run out of the pocket and should throw it away because guys 275 lb can run faster than they can. A guy like him too important scramble for first down.
Well, in the 80's you'd never see a 275 lb guy run that fast. :neverusethis:
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Offensive line was that way back then!
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Ummm...........
GO RAMS!!!!! :yarr
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As I feared, the Giants D came to play tonight. This will not be the easy game most people predicted. NFL games rarely are.
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As I feared, the Giants D came to play tonight. This will not be the easy game most people predicted. NFL games rarely are.
This whole season is a little whacky. Thankfully I don't screw around with money with the NFL.
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That Vikings defender definitely drove Rodgers into the ground unnecessarily. Sucks. Love watching Wizard Rodgers.
That was a normal tackle. If it was any player other than a qb no one would have batted an eye. Sucks he got hurt, but the defender did nothing wrong. He's under no obligated to tackle gently.
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Except a QB is generally defenseless, and the only player who gets tackled when they don't have the ball.
Did I think it was deliberate? No. Extremely excessive? No.
Excessive? Yes.
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Denver.... What the actual fuck? In Denver. :loser:
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I have nothing worthwhile to add about the games this weekend, just Aaron Rodgers going down hurts my fantasy team. :'( Don't see GB doing much now with AR out.
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I have nothing worthwhile to add about the games this weekend, just Aaron Rodgers going down hurts my fantasy team. :'( Don't see GB doing much now with AR out.
You got that right.
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I'm going to leave this for those interested....
https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/03/16/nfl-equipment-shoulder-pads-designer-teddy-monica-xtech
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I'm going to leave this for those interested....
https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/03/16/nfl-equipment-shoulder-pads-designer-teddy-monica-xtech
Why would you not want to wear those? I'm sure AR is kicking himself in the head now.
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Surprised to see the Giants win. Doesn't mean much to me personally to get that win, but nice to see the team not give up.
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Next thing you know, the Browns are winning in Foxborough. Well...not this year.
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This is so typical N.E. They are struggling. There doesn't seem to be an apparent fix. People are starting to write them off. ...and they are still 4-2, leading their division, and only a single game behind best record in the NFL.
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This is so typical N.E. They are struggling. There doesn't seem to be an apparent fix. People are starting to write them off. ...and they are still 4-2, leading their division, and only a single game behind best record in the NFL.
Yes we are spoiled. It's been such a great run being at a high level that when you see the way this Defense is playing, it causes mass hysteria in N.E. 6 games, 6 QB's all throwing for 300 + yards. There is reason for great concern. We expect to get to the AFC Championship game every year.
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But what I'm saying is, despite what looks like good reason for concern on the defensive side, NE probably will get to the AFC Championship again, and we will look back at the season and once again ask how it happened? :lol
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:lol
Well, I really have my worries this year with the defense. You face a team that can score and is average defensively it puts too much pressure on one side of the ball.
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That's what Collinsworth said last night. He refrained commenting about the NE problems because it's too early in the season. Well yeah, it's too early in the season to know how most teams will fair. Especially NE...
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I would normally agree but when for six games have the worst defense in the league and have no one you can add to your roster and the last six quarterbacks they they would have thrown over 300 yards per game you know it's a lot of trouble moving forward.
You have to have at least an average defense with a great offense to win a Superbowl. I hope I'm wrong but from what my eyes are telling me this defense is in trouble all year.
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It's hard to say. Seems to me that the problem has more to do with discipline and focus than player talent. You can fix that. If there weren't anybody good on the D then it'd be game over. There are good players there playing poorly, and that might get resolved. Shipping somebody off to Cleveland for being a putz might be the ticket.
Remember, 3 years ago around this time people were wondering if it was time to unload Brady after getting clobbered by the Chiefs.
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No I understand but the defenses in that teams didn't look that bad. This defense really looks bad. I'm still hoping that they can get to middle of the pack defensively and then I'll feel better.
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Denver.... What the actual fuck? In Denver. :loser:
I am chalking that up to growing pains under a rookie head coach. The whole team looked flat, which to me is always on coaching. It reminded me of '09 when they started 6-0 under a rookie head coach (McCheater), had a bye, and then got smoked by the Ravens. Given the upcoming schedule, last night's loss could end up proving very costly.
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I see both sides of this. This isn't new, but then again, Belichick isn't the best coach in football history because he takes it easy and assumes it will all work itself out. We haven't seen the last (or even the first?) of the fixes, and while we KNOW they will come, it's hard to assess at this point without knowing what the next step is or will be.
I also know that we aren't a 50-pt per game offense, so we need at least a decent defense to get where we need to go.
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Post-Week 6 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. Philadelphia - 5-1 despite a tough schedule to start the season; they are legit contenders
2. Kansas City - looked awful in a loss that wasn't as close as the final score
3. Pittsburgh - they are still a schizo team, but 4-2 is 4-2, and that was an impressive win at KC; they'd be the best team if they were that prepared every week
4. Washington - major scare against SF, but still have looked great for most of the season
5. New England - seems crazy for them to be this high, given how bad their D is, but it is getting a little better, and the offense is just fine
6. New Orleans - their defense being good suddenly has to be biggest surprise of October
7. Carolina - as always, Cam has a really high ceiling and a low floor; good luck getting what you are getting from week to week
8. Denver - brutal home loss to a 0-5 team; the next month will say a lot about this team
9. LA Rams - nice road win over a game Jags team
10. Seattle - all of their upcoming tough games are on the road, so they have a chance to make a run
Trending Up
Minnesota - the NFC North is theirs for the taking now
Miami - can be a playoff team if the offense gets it together at all; the D is legit
Houston - can Watson keep it up?
Arizona - will a rejuvenated AP get them to the playoffs?
Tennessee - can they start living up to the hype on a consistent basis?
Trending Down
Green Bay - 4-1 with Rodgers, now destined for 6-10 or 7-9 without him
Oakland - defense stinks, and the problems on offense are aplenty
Detroit - the defense has gone from being a strength to a major liability, just like that
Dallas - can they turn it around?
Atlanta - the Super Bowl loss hangover is real
Bottom 5
28. Chicago - a lot to like about this team, but a lot of work to still do
29. Ny Giants - gutsy win, but too little too late
30. Indianapolis - like the Seattle game, played pretty well for a while and then fell apart
31. San Francisco - playing teams tough, but can't win
32. Cleveland - :lol :lol
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz - this guy will be in the top tier of NFL QBs very soon
2. Tom Brady - if he stays healthy, this award is his to win, now that Rodgers is hurt
3. Alex Smith - stock is dropping a bit after that pitiful performance
4. Kareem Hunt - will need to carry more of the load as the passing game slows down a bit
5. DeShaun Watson - amazing what a different a QB makes
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NFL MVP Top 5
2. Tom Brady - if he stays healthy, this award is his to win, now that Rodgers is hurt
At best, the Pats would be 1-5 without him.
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Not sure about that. They probably could have still beaten the Saints (who were still a mess then) and Jets with Jimmy G, and probably TB, too (offense didn't exactly light it up that game).
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Not sure about that. They probably could have still beaten the Saints (who were still a mess then) and Jets with Jimmy G, and probably TB, too (offense didn't exactly light it up that game).
They BARELY beat the Jets and Bucs WITH Brady.
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Not sure about that. They probably could have still beaten the Saints (who were still a mess then) and Jets with Jimmy G, and probably TB, too (offense didn't exactly light it up that game).
They BARELY beat the Jets and Bucs WITH Brady.
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I am aware. It's impossible to know how those games play out with Jimmy G, who is likely the best backup QB in the league (and possibly better than quite a few starters). They went 3-1 without Brady last year. They would survive.
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There's lots to like about Jimmy G. But the O-Line had been brutal. I think it's only been Brady's experience that has allowed them to survive these games. Not sure Jimmy G would've handled it all the same.
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The defense also played a lot better last year that afforded them to miss Brady and go 3 and 1.
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Right, and don't forget, Brissett played 2/3's of one win and won another himself. Jimmy G only played what? 5 or 6 quarters?
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(https://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/22339142_10155726104276597_124002511571363054_o.jpg)
So of the 4 regional covers, only Brady has survived. Word around here is that Edelman loves Brady so much, he took it for him.
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3. Pittsburgh - they are still a schizo team, but 4-2 is 4-2, and that was an impressive win at KC; they'd be the best team if they were that prepared every week
Isn't that the truth. It's become almost cliche around Pittsburgh at this point. We simply wait for this super skilled team to get up for the tough games and completely fall apart on the road against sub-500 teams.
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3. Pittsburgh - they are still a schizo team, but 4-2 is 4-2, and that was an impressive win at KC; they'd be the best team if they were that prepared every week
Isn't that the truth. It's become almost cliche around Pittsburgh at this point. We simply wait for this super skilled team to get up for the tough games and completely fall apart on the road against sub-500 teams.
I was very happy to see them running the ball so well. The only downside was how they didn't finish drives.
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3. Pittsburgh - they are still a schizo team, but 4-2 is 4-2, and that was an impressive win at KC; they'd be the best team if they were that prepared every week
Isn't that the truth. It's become almost cliche around Pittsburgh at this point. We simply wait for this super skilled team to get up for the tough games and completely fall apart on the road against sub-500 teams.
I was very happy to see them running the ball so well. The only downside was how they didn't finish drives.
Yeah the red zone continues to be an issue, but you are right. It seems like Bell is hitting his stride now, which is great.
Also, let's not forget that the D looked fantastic Sunday. If they can play above average on that side of the ball, the offense will come.
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Also, let's not forget that the D looked fantastic Sunday. If they can play above average on that side of the ball, the offense will come.
I'm not sure they'll be THAT happy, but it'll make their jobs easier.
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Yeah the red zone continues to be an issue, but you are right. It seems like Bell is hitting his stride now, which is great.
I'm not sure I agree with that. He still didn't look very good on Sunday. Had that game been two years ago, they would have won 30-10. He had a pretty mediocre day, except for the TD to Brown, which was a fluke (should have been picked, only for Brown to make a great play).
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Yeah the red zone continues to be an issue, but you are right. It seems like Bell is hitting his stride now, which is great.
I'm not sure I agree with that. He still didn't look very good on Sunday. Had that game been two years ago, they would have won 30-10. He had a pretty mediocre day, except for the TD to Brown, which was a fluke (should have been picked, only for Brown to make a great play).
Bell looked great, but if you're thinking of Ben then yes, it wasn't a stellar day by any means. I'd call it stable, though.
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Yeah the red zone continues to be an issue, but you are right. It seems like Bell is hitting his stride now, which is great.
I'm not sure I agree with that. He still didn't look very good on Sunday. Had that game been two years ago, they would have won 30-10. He had a pretty mediocre day, except for the TD to Brown, which was a fluke (should have been picked, only for Brown to make a great play).
Bell looked great, but if you're thinking of Ben then yes, it wasn't a stellar day by any means. I'd call it stable, though.
Yeah Kev, are you getting your "Bs" mixed up? Bell looked great Sunday. 179 yards, averaging just over 5.5 per carry, and a TD...
Brown had what I consider a bad game for him. Yes, he had the Sportscenter highlight reel TD catch which was impressive but his idiot move on the free kick was ridiculously bad, and Ben's pick on Sunday was due to AB stopping while running his route. More cons in that game for me than pros.
Powerslave - I agree Ben was okay, not great, not bad. But honestly, that's a step in the right direction. If Ben can simply play average, he has enough tools around him to do okay with this team this year.
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Yep, I got my B's mixed up there. :facepalm: :lol
Bell looked dynamic and he should touch the ball as much as possible.
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Yep, I got my B's mixed up there. :facepalm: :lol
Bell looked dynamic and he should touch the ball as much as possible.
:lol That's what I figured. Sunday was like a coming out game (which he was long overdue for) for Bell this year. The Steelers offense runs so much better when Bell is the primary focus and gets a lot of touches. That opens everything else up.
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Guess Marshawn Lynch was ready for a vacation from his return to football. He's definitely going to get a good one. I think that's the most contact I've seen against a ref.
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Glad he left the Seahwaks now...haha dumbass.
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Yeah the red zone continues to be an issue, but you are right. It seems like Bell is hitting his stride now, which is great.
I'm not sure I agree with that. He still didn't look very good on Sunday. Had that game been two years ago, they would have won 30-10. He had a pretty mediocre day, except for the TD to Brown, which was a fluke (should have been picked, only for Brown to make a great play).
He wasn't amazing, but considering 3 of those picks the week before were tipped, he deserved some luck going the other way.
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Guess Marshawn Lynch was ready for a vacation from his return to football. He's definitely going to get a good one. I think that's the most contact I've seen against a ref.
Yeah, I decided to turn it over to the football game since the Cubs were getting their ass handed to them, and seen that right off. Monumental stupidity would be an under statement.
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I probably shouldn't have stayed up so late watching this game, but that was a helluva finish!
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Now that was a fantastic game.
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Yeah, helluva finish, indeed.
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Crazy finish. I thought Cook's play was a TD (he didn't secure the ball until he was in the end zone), but I guess justice prevailed several untimed plays later. :lol :lol
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Guess Marshawn Lynch was ready for a vacation from his return to football. He's definitely going to get a good one. I think that's the most contact I've seen against a ref.
That was stupid on every level. He wasn't even on the field for that play!!! Flags were already thrown for the hit on Carr, so he wasn't protecting his QB. Poor judgment. Rather, NO judgment.
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Guess Marshawn Lynch was ready for a vacation from his return to football. He's definitely going to get a good one. I think that's the most contact I've seen against a ref.
That was stupid on every level. He wasn't even on the field for that play!!! Flags were already thrown for the hit on Carr, so he wasn't protecting his QB. Poor judgment. Rather, NO judgment.
Oh, c'mon... surely there's a way you could defend his actions. :neverusethis:
THAT was a crazy finish - pretty much what we should expect from the NFL this year.
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The Broncos offense is total trash now. The o-line is back to being awful, and Siemian is now showing why he was a 7th round pick. Yuck.
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lol at Bears beating Panthers
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The Broncos offense is total trash now. The o-line is back to being awful, and Siemian is now showing why he was a 7th round pick. Yuck.
I'm shocked watching it.
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So, since the Cowboys safety is their backup kicker and he's kicking FG's and extra points, does he score points for Dallas's defense in fantasy?
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Our local game is the Dallas game. They should've just switched it at Halftime to the Seahawks/Giants game.
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The Broncos offense is total trash now. The o-line is back to being awful, and Siemian is now showing why he was a 7th round pick. Yuck.
This team has 5-11 written all over it. Once Lynch is healthy, they should put him out there just to see what they have in him even if he hasn't looked great so far. They have nothing to lose at this point. Not sure how many more games I can watch with Siemian at QB.
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So, since the Cowboys safety is their backup kicker and he's kicking FG's and extra points, does he score points for Dallas's defense in fantasy?
Nope. If you'd started the guy as an IDP then he would get the points, assuming that the software running the league could make it work. Kicking points wouldn't be credited to the team D, though.
And damn, I'm real sorry I missed that. I love seeing emergency skill players called upon. Emergency kickers and quarterbacks are a hoot. Legend has it that Vince Wilfork was the EQB at one point. Who wouldn't have wanted to see that?
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So now hand checking is a penalty.
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Our local game is the Dallas game. They should've just switched it at Halftime to the Seahawks/Giants game.
Unbelievable that the number 1 Fox announcing team (Aikman and whomever was filling in for Joe Buck this week) was assigned to a game between a 2-3 and 0-6 team. The Dallas bias is strong.
The Broncos offense is total trash now. The o-line is back to being awful, and Siemian is now showing why he was a 7th round pick. Yuck.
This team has 5-11 written all over it. Once Lynch is healthy, they should put him out there just to see what they have in him even if he hasn't looked great so far. They have nothing to lose at this point. Not sure how many more games I can watch with Siemian at QB.
I'm not sure it matters, as long as the o-line is this bad. A week ago, I was thinking they had to win against the Giants and Chargers to have a real shot at the playoffs, given their next three games. Having lost both now, the party's over. What a shame to see this defense going to waste on a team with such a bad offense.
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Keep being aggressive Falcons. Thank you.
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On the second play of the game, Burfict kicked a Steelers player in the head. This guy is SUCH a piece of garbage. "Safety first" right Goodall?
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I'm coming pretty close to sending a fruit basket to the Patriots.
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I'm coming pretty close to sending a fruit basket to the Patriots.
Send it to Steve Sarkisian. If that clown isn't fired tomorrow, the Falcons are as dumb as Lloyd Christmas.
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I'm coming pretty close to sending a fruit basket to the Patriots.
*Clears throat*
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Deal. Now where's that Xocoveza you mentioned two years ago?
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I just saw it out here yesterday.
Btw, you said you have up drinking, remember. I had to take care of those babies.
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lol and now I'm drinking Bud Ice. I need to find a good beer place out here in NOLA now that I don't have Total Wine like I did in NC and FL. Also, I hope you read my retitled subject line in the former post.
Also, I can't believe the Saints went from 0-2 and looking like the Payton/Brees era was in need of the Ol' Yeller treatment to leading the division in just a month. I don't expect them to hold the lead for long without a few bumps along the way but a wildcard at the very least would be very nice.
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When was the last time we had THREE shutouts in a single week?
And the Jaguars continue their trend of trouncing their odd-week opponents. Their point differential is joint-top (w/Chiefs) in the entire NFL. Extremely impressive defense too.
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Good divisional win by the Steelers yesterday. Their defense has all of a sudden become fantastic.
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Bryant wants out. Can't get open, has hands of stone, and is probably only a few weeks away from his next drug infraction. Whoever wants him can have him.
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Bryant wants out. Can't get open, has hands of stone, and is probably only a few weeks away from his next drug infraction. Whoever wants him can have him.
Yeah he didn't show up to a mandatory meeting today.
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I heard that he was saying a few things after the game yesterday. It's a shame, but this team can't afford him to continue to be a distraction. It very well might be time to cut ties.
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^ He was, and he apparently threw JuJu under the bus on Twitter or Instagram or something yesterday as well. And then didn't show up to a mandatory meeting...
At this point, I think the cons are outweighing the pros.
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Good divisional win by the Steelers yesterday. Their defense has all of a sudden become fantastic.
The pass defense, yes. The run defense is still an issue.
At this point, I think it's a given that Pitt, NE and KC will be the top 3 seeds. It's just a matter of what the order will be. Pittsburgh has the advantage of playing in the weakest division of the three.
Also, I can't believe the Saints went from 0-2 and looking like the Payton/Brees era was in need of the Ol' Yeller treatment to leading the division in just a month. I don't expect them to hold the lead for long without a few bumps along the way but a wildcard at the very least would be very nice.
I hope they keep it up. I'd love to see Brees have a shot at another postseason run, before Father Time overtakes him.
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I think we need to start a petition to have Ed Hoculi tested for steroids.
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Peters' injury could change the trajectory of the Eagles' season...
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Wentz is incredible.
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That was a Houdini moment.
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Wentz is incredible.
To say the least. He is an absolute joy to watch.
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Wentz is incredible.
To say the least. He is an absolute joy to watch.
And to see grow.
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For a bit of fun, I did my own pick 'em for this week's games. Managed a 10-5 record, which I'm extremely chuffed about. I'm gonna keep doing this, I think. Obviously I can't really do a season-total, as I've started so late, but I'll just take each week at a time. Maybe next year I might join the DTF Pick 'Em league.
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Good divisional win by the Steelers yesterday. Their defense has all of a sudden become fantastic.
The pass defense, yes. The run defense is still an issue.
At this point, I think it's a given that Pitt, NE and KC will be the top 3 seeds. It's just a matter of what the order will be. Pittsburgh has the advantage of playing in the weakest division of the three.
I would agree on all counts Kev. The pass defense has been great, the run defense still needs some work but has loads of potential.
And I totally agree that I envision the AFC as a three team race. The Steelers need to take advantage of a weak division and get a bye. They will not beat the Pats in the playoffs, they just can't do it. They will need KC to beat the Pats for them if they want to get to the Super Bowl.
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Post-Week 7 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. Philadelphia - Jason Peters is a huge loss, but they have, hands down, been the best team through seven weeks
2. Pittsburgh - can they avoid the usual hiccups agains subpar teams the rest of the way?
3. New England - deep down, we all knew Belichick would get that defense better in a hurry: 38 points allowed the last three weeks
4. Kansas City - the defense looks like a mess, all of a sudden
5. New Orleans - Alvin Kamara is quietly one of the best rookies this season
6. LA Rams - Rams D now used to the 3-4 and dominating
7. Seattle - the combo great D and a top QB is always something to fear
8. Jacksonville - still 2nd in the league in point differential
9. Buffalo - offense came up big, which is a good sign for them
10. Minnesota - feels like 10-6, a division title and a first round home loss
Trending Up
Miami - Cutler injury is a blessing; Matt Moore is better
Houston - tough schedule coming up; are they up to the challenge?
Chicago - you know the D is good when you win a game in which your QB completes 4 passes
LA Chargers - look like a real threat now
Tennessee - ugly win, but 4-3 is 4-3
Trending Down
Green Bay - stick a fork in them
Denver - stick one in them, too
Atlanta - lucky to not be 1-5
Tampa Bay - I was dead wrong about this team; I thought they were a legit sleeper to win the NFC
Baltimore - Flacco is stealing money from the Ravens
Bottom 5
28. Arizona - I could see them losing out now, given their pathetic backup QB situation
29. Ny Giants - ugly
30. Indianapolis - coaching staff better get their resumes ready
31. San Francisco - this team is bad
32. Cleveland - :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz - if he keeps this up, will voters give it to a 2nd year QB?
2. Tom Brady - 40 and still damn good
3. Alex Smith - still no turnovers
4. Todd Gurley - unbelievable the difference a year makes
5. LeVeon Bell - he makes all the difference on that offense
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Kev, 3 things about this week's ranking post.
I disagree with Pittsburgh's, and the Pats positions. As much as it pains me to say this, the Brady bunch are still the better team, and should be ranked above the Steelers until proven otherwise.
Your words on the Bucs nail it. I didn't think that they were contenders, but I expected more from them.
If I was the Dolphins I'd pay Cuttler to stay home the rest of the season.
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Miami - Cutler injury is a blessing; Matt Moore is better
I still don't think Matt Moore is a #1.
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Miami - Cutler injury is a blessing; Matt Moore is better
I still don't think Matt Moore is a #1.
I doubt anyone does.
I disagree with Pittsburgh's, and the Pats positions. As much as it pains me to say this, the Brady bunch are still the better team, and should be ranked above the Steelers until proven otherwise.
I rank based on how they have looked thus far, not on how I think they will end up, otherwise I would certainly have NE ahead of Pittsburgh. So far though, I think Pittsburgh has been better. They were clearly the better team in all five of their wins. Yes, NE is 5-2 as well, but needed a lot of help from the zebras to beat the Jets and a lot of missed field goals to beat the Bucs.
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Oh, I definitely understand that. I just think that NE has played better teams overall. Chicago has been a little bit of a surprise, but the Steelers other loss was an embarrassment despite how well Jax is playing.
The Steelers are rarely ever a pretty team in how they get through the regular season, but that loss tied to the dysfunction in the locker room makes them the fat chick that you bang without telling any of your buddies. It gets the job done, but you just don't brag about it.
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"Well, obviously I was only referring to unimportant players. David Irving is a really good player."
https://www.thenation.com/article/jerry-jones-isnt-going-to-punish-dallas-cowboys-players-for-protesting-after-all/
The more interesting part is the behind the scenes accounts of Jerry and his dealings with Grabby, if true, of course. After the Ezekiel Elliot thing and now this it's looking like Jerry doesn't have the clout he used to. When you align yourself with flakes you generally get burned. Between Goodell and Lil' Donnie he's associating with two people who are completely unpredictable and devoid of loyalty.
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Oh, I definitely understand that. I just think that NE has played better teams overall. Chicago has been a little bit of a surprise, but the Steelers other loss was an embarrassment despite how well Jax is playing.
The Steelers are rarely ever a pretty team in how they get through the regular season, but that loss tied to the dysfunction in the locker room makes them the fat chick that you bang without telling any of your buddies. It gets the job done, but you just don't brag about it.
Totally agree. I'd have a hard time putting the Steelers ahead of NE as well.
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I think the biggest head scratcher for me is Denver. :wtf:
Also, seeing Philly in the #1 spot is extremely painful.
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I think the biggest head scratcher for me is Denver. :wtf:
Also, seeing Philly in the #1 spot is extremely painful.
Look, I get it, he's playing well, but I'm going to wait until he MAKES the playoffs, let alone wins a playoff game or wins the big one before I anoint him. Even as a Giants fan, he's the type of player I'd like to see do well, but I think we should let him achieve the goals before we give him the credit for those goals.
As for Denver, wow, how the mighty have fallen. I always thought the Gary Kubiak thing was sort of odd, and it seems to be playing out that way. We'll see.
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I think the biggest head scratcher for me is Denver. :wtf:
Also, seeing Philly in the #1 spot is extremely painful.
Look, I get it, he's playing well, but I'm going to wait until he MAKES the playoffs, let alone wins a playoff game or wins the big one before I anoint him. Even as a Giants fan, he's the type of player I'd like to see do well, but I think we should let him achieve the goals before we give him the credit for those goals.
As for Denver, wow, how the mighty have fallen. I always thought the Gary Kubiak thing was sort of odd, and it seems to be playing out that way. We'll see.
Oh, I totally agree. Wentz is good, no doubt about it, but we'll see how long it lasts.
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Oh, I definitely understand that. I just think that NE has played better teams overall. Chicago has been a little bit of a surprise, but the Steelers other loss was an embarrassment despite how well Jax is playing.
The Steelers are rarely ever a pretty team in how they get through the regular season, but that loss tied to the dysfunction in the locker room makes them the fat chick that you bang without telling any of your buddies. It gets the job done, but you just don't brag about it.
The Steelers have played 3 or 4 of the toughest defenses so far. Advanced analytic sites have them ranked much higher than public opinion, but that's ok I prefer they were under the radar anyway. All of their remaining 9 games are very winnable, even NE at home since they presumably will have Ben, Bell, and Brown healthy for the game (which wasn't the case either time they played them last year).
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The Steelers have played 3 or 4 of the toughest defenses so far. Advanced analytic sites have them ranked much higher than public opinion, but that's ok I prefer they were under the radar anyway. All of their remaining 9 games are very winnable, even NE at home since they presumably will have Ben, Bell, and Brown healthy for the game (which wasn't the case either time they played them last year).
As a lifelong Steeler fan, I'll believe a Tomlin team can beat a Belichick team in a significant game when I see it. Until then, I always work under the assumption the Pats are one up on the Steelers because of, well, history.
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Oh, I definitely understand that. I just think that NE has played better teams overall. Chicago has been a little bit of a surprise, but the Steelers other loss was an embarrassment despite how well Jax is playing.
The Steelers are rarely ever a pretty team in how they get through the regular season, but that loss tied to the dysfunction in the locker room makes them the fat chick that you bang without telling any of your buddies. It gets the job done, but you just don't brag about it.
The Steelers have played 3 or 4 of the toughest defenses so far. Advanced analytic sites have them ranked much higher than public opinion, but that's ok I prefer they were under the radar anyway. All of their remaining 9 games are very winnable, even NE at home since they presumably will have Ben, Bell, and Brown healthy for the game (which wasn't the case either time they played them last year).
True, but they've yet to face a good offense. Cincy marched on them the first couple of drives Sunday quite easily. The defense looked amazing in KC, but the chiefs are far from prolofic. And the way Jax ran on them is embarrassing.
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The Steelers have played 3 or 4 of the toughest defenses so far. Advanced analytic sites have them ranked much higher than public opinion, but that's ok I prefer they were under the radar anyway. All of their remaining 9 games are very winnable, even NE at home since they presumably will have Ben, Bell, and Brown healthy for the game (which wasn't the case either time they played them last year).
As a lifelong Steeler fan, I'll believe a Tomlin team can beat a Belichick team in a significant game when I see it. Until then, I always work under the assumption the Pats are one up on the Steelers because of, well, history.
And I'm sorry, if it ever comes down to purely Tomlin versus Belichick, history WILL repeat.
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And I'm sorry, if it ever comes down to purely Tomlin versus Belichick, history WILL repeat.
No argument from me Stads.
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Word is that the Steelers are making Bryant inactive for Sunday's game. Good on them!!
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I've thought about the Bryant situation, and I've somewhat changed my stance. At first I wanted the team to cut him. Now I'm hoping that they simply deactivate him on a weekly basis, then release him after the season. I'm all for people having the opportunity to redeem themselves. Especially those that I believe are suffering from serious mental health issues. However, there comes a point where ya gotta cut a man loose because he doesn't appreciate what has been given to them. Martavis has now reached that point, and has ventured beyond.
And to clarify my stance about the Steelers being lesser than the Pats, there are very few coaches that I would rather have on my team's sideline than Mike Tomlin. However, he has made some decisions over the years that have been to his (and the teams) detriment. He has an opportunity this season to rectify that. My sincere hope is that he does.
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Leaving this here in case anyone missed it. Carson Wentz and Lukas the Dutch Destroyer.
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And I'm sorry, if it ever comes down to purely Tomlin versus Belichick, history WILL repeat.
No argument from me Stads.
Me neither, except that a football game has never come to purely one coach vs another, otherwise how do you explain Belichick once losing a home playoff game to Rex Ryan?
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I've thought about the Bryant situation, and I've somewhat changed my stance. At first I wanted the team to cut him. Now I'm hoping that they simply deactivate him on a weekly basis, then release him after the season. I'm all for people having the opportunity to redeem themselves. Especially those that I believe are suffering from serious mental health issues. However, there comes a point where ya gotta cut a man loose because he doesn't appreciate what has been given to them. Martavis has now reached that point, and has ventured beyond.
And to clarify my stance about the Steelers being lesser than the Pats, there are very few coaches that I would rather have on my team's sideline than Mike Tomlin. However, he has made some decisions over the years that have been to his (and the teams) detriment. He has an opportunity this season to rectify that. My sincere hope is that he does.
I think deactivating him for Sunday's game is going to be the extent of his punishment, unless he does something else dumb.
And I'm sorry, if it ever comes down to purely Tomlin versus Belichick, history WILL repeat.
No argument from me Stads.
Me neither, except that a football game has never come to purely one coach vs another, otherwise how do you explain Belichick once losing a home playoff game to Rex Ryan?
No doubt, but I'd still put bets on the rule not the exception, and if we use history as our guide, the rule is that in meaningful games, Belichick teams beat Tomlin teams. Obviously, anyone can beat anyone else any given week, etc...etc... but in this instance, I'll believe it when I see it.
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I think deactivating him for Sunday's game is going to be the extent of his punishment, unless he does something else dumb.
Which is so unlikely! ::)
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I think deactivating him for Sunday's game is going to be the extent of his punishment, unless he does something else dumb.
Which is so unlikely! ::)
:lol True story.
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Hightower out for the season with a torn pectoral muscle. Not good at all.
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I think deactivating him for Sunday's game is going to be the extent of his punishment, unless he does something else dumb.
Which is so unlikely! ::)
:lol True story.
I give him 'til Thanksgiving.
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I think deactivating him for Sunday's game is going to be the extent of his punishment, unless he does something else dumb.
Which is so unlikely! ::)
:lol True story.
I give him 'til Thanksgiving.
Generous.
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No doubt, but I'd still put bets on the rule not the exception, and if we use history as our guide, the rule is that in meaningful games, Belichick teams beat Tomlin teams. Obviously, anyone can beat anyone else any given week, etc...etc... but in this instance, I'll believe it when I see it.
Understandable. The Steelers have basically been the Patriots whipping boy since 2001 (with the exception of two games, I think). Sometimes, one team just has another team's number.
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And that would be the Ravens for the Pats.
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I was going to mention how the entire league has the Brown's number, but low hanging fruit isn't that snarky...
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In other news, someone just asked Flacco if he knows what his name is, and his answer was "Batman".
That was a nasty shot.
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Yeah, he's in Henrietta right now. I liked how he raised his finger like he had something to say and just sort of stayed there. :lol
In the end, it's pretty meaningless now. Unlike Romo, I don't see a comeback happening here.
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^
Had that happened to Brady, the officials would have forfeited the game to the Pats on the spot.
Flacco was sliding, not diving. A :censored bush league play no matter what QB it happened to.
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It was the right call. It was a penalty and it wasn't flagrant. He was certainly trying to slide, hence the penalty, but he pushed it to the very limit trying to get the first down.
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Now this, on the other hand, constitutes flagrant in my book. :lol
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNHTep5UIAAKEpn.jpg)
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Suh?....
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How out of character.
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Now this, on the other hand, constitutes flagrant in my book. :lol
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNHTep5UIAAKEpn.jpg)
How the hell has he not been banned from the league yet? Such a disgusting player.
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How out of character.
:lol For real.
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I didn't watch last night but that happened? WTF, get this guy out of the league. As if the NFL didn't have enough going on to turn people off, that to me, that's really high on the list since we, the fans, are watching this happen. Unlike lots of the off the field stuff we dont see, when you see someone getting choked on the field, that's really fucked up.
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No doubt, but I'd still put bets on the rule not the exception, and if we use history as our guide, the rule is that in meaningful games, Belichick teams beat Tomlin teams. Obviously, anyone can beat anyone else any given week, etc...etc... but in this instance, I'll believe it when I see it.
Understandable. The Steelers have basically been the Patriots whipping boy since 2001 (with the exception of two games, I think). Sometimes, one team just has another team's number.
One thing that sets Belichick apart is that he can play any game. Pats need to score 50 to win? They will, 12 times out of 16, score 51. They need to limit the other team to under 14 point to win? They will, 11 times out of 16, hold the other team to 13. They need to be a precise, unemotional machine to win? You get the point.
Tomlin is an emotional coach. He needs that "us versus them", gang mentality to win, and it's a double-edged sword. You get a couple quarters where your "emotion" doesn't translate into points on the board and it gets harder to maintain. Belichick is a master at overcoming that.
As for Suh, he needs to go. I'm not sure why teams are willing to pay a guy like that. Same with that guy from Cincinnati. Bur-whatever.
Is that Flacco "Batman" story true? If so, and while I feel for him and hope he's not seriously injured, that's a hell of a line. :)
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No doubt, but I'd still put bets on the rule not the exception, and if we use history as our guide, the rule is that in meaningful games, Belichick teams beat Tomlin teams. Obviously, anyone can beat anyone else any given week, etc...etc... but in this instance, I'll believe it when I see it.
Understandable. The Steelers have basically been the Patriots whipping boy since 2001 (with the exception of two games, I think). Sometimes, one team just has another team's number.
One thing that sets Belichick apart is that he can play any game. Pats need to score 50 to win? They will, 12 times out of 16, score 51. They need to limit the other team to under 14 point to win? They will, 11 times out of 16, hold the other team to 13. They need to be a precise, unemotional machine to win? You get the point.
Tomlin is an emotional coach. He needs that "us versus them", gang mentality to win, and it's a double-edged sword. You get a couple quarters where your "emotion" doesn't translate into points on the board and it gets harder to maintain. Belichick is a master at overcoming that.
As for Suh, he needs to go. I'm not sure why teams are willing to pay a guy like that. Same with that guy from Cincinnati. Bur-whatever.
Is that Flacco "Batman" story true? If so, and while I feel for him and hope he's not seriously injured, that's a hell of a line. :)
The "Batman" line if from a commercial.
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I have soft spot for Suh since I'm a Nebraska fan and he's donated a ton of money to the program, but yeah he went over the line again. Mallet must have big pair of balls to get in his face like he did.
Also, I really like Tony Romo. His honesty and ability call spade a spade is really entertaining.
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Tomlin is an emotional coach. He needs that "us versus them", gang mentality to win, and it's a double-edged sword. You get a couple quarters where your "emotion" doesn't translate into points on the board and it gets harder to maintain. Belichick is a master at overcoming that.
That is spot-on analysis.
Also, I really like Tony Romo. His honesty and ability call spade a spade is really entertaining.
Speaking of spot-on analysis, Romo has without question become my favorite NFL TV color guy. His insight is interesting, timely, and refreshing. Good for him, seriously.
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Yeah, Nance and Romo are pretty good. Enjoyable commentary and analysis. :tup
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Maybe it's because I despise Nance, but I haven't warmed to Romo yet. I actually liked Phil Simms, so for me, so far, it's not a trade up.
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No doubt, but I'd still put bets on the rule not the exception, and if we use history as our guide, the rule is that in meaningful games, Belichick teams beat Tomlin teams. Obviously, anyone can beat anyone else any given week, etc...etc... but in this instance, I'll believe it when I see it.
Understandable. The Steelers have basically been the Patriots whipping boy since 2001 (with the exception of two games, I think). Sometimes, one team just has another team's number.
One thing that sets Belichick apart is that he can play any game. Pats need to score 50 to win? They will, 12 times out of 16, score 51. They need to limit the other team to under 14 point to win? They will, 11 times out of 16, hold the other team to 13. They need to be a precise, unemotional machine to win? You get the point.
Tomlin is an emotional coach. He needs that "us versus them", gang mentality to win, and it's a double-edged sword. You get a couple quarters where your "emotion" doesn't translate into points on the board and it gets harder to maintain. Belichick is a master at overcoming that.
As for Suh, he needs to go. I'm not sure why teams are willing to pay a guy like that. Same with that guy from Cincinnati. Bur-whatever.
Is that Flacco "Batman" story true? If so, and while I feel for him and hope he's not seriously injured, that's a hell of a line. :)
Agreed on the emotional aspect Stads, but there is more to it. The Steelers biggest issue in the past (especially with the Pats) is in-game adjustments on defense. They have a game plan, and stick to it no matter what. Brady picks them apart, and they continue to play zone against him with no pressure. Next game against the Pats, same thing with the same result. It has been painful to watch over the years.
This year, they are finally making adjustments defensively as shown this past weekend. The Bengals moved on them in the first half, then the Steelers put the hammer down. No points, 20 something yards and one first down in the second half. Yes, it was the Bengals, but its progress. Stafford and Brady will test their resolve in upcoming games, so the jury is still out with me on if the defense is truly worthy of their current ranking. I sometimes wonder what the Steelers would look like with Belichick as their coach. Straight X's & O's, do your job, make adjustments from play to play. He would have been good for at least two more Super Bowls;-)
DanLore
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Agreed on the emotional aspect Stads, but there is more to it. The Steelers biggest issue in the past (especially with the Pats) is in-game adjustments on defense. They have a game plan, and stick to it no matter what. Brady picks them apart, and they continue to play zone against him with no pressure. Next game against the Pats, same thing with the same result. It has been painful to watch over the years.
This year, they are finally making adjustments defensively as shown this past weekend. The Bengals moved on them in the first half, then the Steelers put the hammer down. No points, 20 something yards and one first down in the second half. Yes, it was the Bengals, but its progress. Stafford and Brady will test their resolve in upcoming games, so the jury is still out with me on if the defense is truly worthy of their current ranking. I sometimes wonder what the Steelers would look like with Belichick as their coach. Straight X's & O's, do your job, make adjustments from play to play. He would have been good for at least two more Super Bowls;-)
DanLore
Good post, I agree. It's also worth noting that for the last several years, the Steelers have not had the personnel in the secondary to make a good adjustment to man-to-man when Brady started picking apart the zone. They seem to have that this year, especially with the addition of Haden. I think this will offer them the flexibility to feel comfortable making those adjustments, they just need to have the proper coaching and preparation to be put in a position to succeed.
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Maybe it's because I despise Nance, but I haven't warmed to Romo yet. I actually liked Phil Simms, so for me, so far, it's not a trade up.
Well, I can see how someone might not prefer Nance, but despise? He seems to be a pretty likable guy. I thought Simms was pretty good and knowledgeable, but Romo has a lot more energy and really gets into the game. I think fans can really appreciate his enthusiasm.
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Maybe it's because I despise Nance, but I haven't warmed to Romo yet. I actually liked Phil Simms, so for me, so far, it's not a trade up.
Well, I can see how someone might not prefer Nance, but despise? He seems to be a pretty likable guy. I thought Simms was pretty good and knowledgeable, but Romo has a lot more energy and really gets into the game. I think fans can really appreciate his enthusiasm.
A bit too much, IMO. He's annoyed me a couple of times, but I am warming to him.
I was wondering if they keep those guys on a delay, because it's only a matter of time before Romo calls something bullshit or exclaims what the fuck! I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, assuming it hasn't, but it will.
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Maybe it's because I despise Nance, but I haven't warmed to Romo yet. I actually liked Phil Simms, so for me, so far, it's not a trade up.
Well, I can see how someone might not prefer Nance, but despise? He seems to be a pretty likable guy. I thought Simms was pretty good and knowledgeable, but Romo has a lot more energy and really gets into the game. I think fans can really appreciate his enthusiasm.
My hatred for him goes back to the 1999 NCAA Championship Game between Duke and UConn, and UConn was leading most of the game, and to hear Nance and Billy Packer talk about it was just... deplorable (can I say that?). It was never "look at this UConn team!" it was always "well, Duke is going to have to play Duke basketball to get this where it should be" and "Duke this" and "Duke that", as if UConn was upsetting the cosmos by fucking with the order of things. Even at the end - UConn won 77-74 - it wasn't about the UConn team it was about the Duke team. It's almost like they were homers rooting for their team and were disappointed when it didn't work out in their favor. It was an upset, to be sure, but it shouldn't have been that big a surprise to someone that knew about the game and was unbiased. UConn was like ten point underdogs in the game, but they were a good solid team, number one in the country for about half the season, Big East regular season and tournament champions, and number one seed in the tourney.
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Maybe it's because I despise Nance, but I haven't warmed to Romo yet. I actually liked Phil Simms, so for me, so far, it's not a trade up.
Well, I can see how someone might not prefer Nance, but despise? He seems to be a pretty likable guy. I thought Simms was pretty good and knowledgeable, but Romo has a lot more energy and really gets into the game. I think fans can really appreciate his enthusiasm.
A bit too much, IMO. He's annoyed me a couple of times, but I am warming to him.
I was wondering if they keep those guys on a delay, because it's only a matter of time before Romo calls something bullshit or exclaims what the fuck! I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, assuming it hasn't, but it will.
I think there is a delay of some sort, sometimes my phone will let me know of a touchdown being scored before it happens on TV.
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My hatred for him goes back to the 1999 NCAA Championship Game between Duke and UConn...
To be fair, Packer was the biggest ACC honk, and would have called a biased game if they played against God, Jesus, Joseph, Mary, and Mother Teresa. Not to mention the general media bias toward Duke (it's there Dukies, quit denying it). I can't recall a game from that long ago, but Nantz never seems too biased in any direction for me.
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Maybe it's because I despise Nance, but I haven't warmed to Romo yet. I actually liked Phil Simms, so for me, so far, it's not a trade up.
Well, I can see how someone might not prefer Nance, but despise? He seems to be a pretty likable guy. I thought Simms was pretty good and knowledgeable, but Romo has a lot more energy and really gets into the game. I think fans can really appreciate his enthusiasm.
A bit too much, IMO. He's annoyed me a couple of times, but I am warming to him.
I was wondering if they keep those guys on a delay, because it's only a matter of time before Romo calls something bullshit or exclaims what the fuck! I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, assuming it hasn't, but it will.
I think there is a delay of some sort, sometimes my phone will let me know of a touchdown being scored before it happens on TV.
There are certainly delays with regards to how the broadcast gets to you. I know there are several seconds between CATV and OTA broadcasts. I stream games via P2P and I'm usually a couple of minutes behind. That's not the same as a broadcast delay, where somebody's got 7 seconds to dump the audio after a drunken Al Michaels says "filthy cunt whore" live on the air. However, now that I think about it, after the tragic events of 2/1/04 I'm pretty sure there's a mandated delay.
NEVER FORGET!
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There are certainly delays with regards to how the broadcast gets to you. I know there are several seconds between CATV and OTA broadcasts. I stream games via P2P and I'm usually a couple of minutes behind. That's not the same as a broadcast delay, where somebody's got 7 seconds to dump the audio after a drunken Al Michaels says "filthy cunt whore" live on the air. However, now that I think about it, after the tragic events of 2/1/04 I'm pretty sure there's a mandated delay.
NEVER FORGET!
JT and JJ halftime show?
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There are certainly delays with regards to how the broadcast gets to you. I know there are several seconds between CATV and OTA broadcasts. I stream games via P2P and I'm usually a couple of minutes behind. That's not the same as a broadcast delay, where somebody's got 7 seconds to dump the audio after a drunken Al Michaels says "filthy cunt whore" live on the air. However, now that I think about it, after the tragic events of 2/1/04 I'm pretty sure there's a mandated delay.
NEVER FORGET!
JT and JJ halftime show?
That should be etched into your brain. Why do you hate America so much?
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There are certainly delays with regards to how the broadcast gets to you. I know there are several seconds between CATV and OTA broadcasts. I stream games via P2P and I'm usually a couple of minutes behind. That's not the same as a broadcast delay, where somebody's got 7 seconds to dump the audio after a drunken Al Michaels says "filthy cunt whore" live on the air. However, now that I think about it, after the tragic events of 2/1/04 I'm pretty sure there's a mandated delay.
NEVER FORGET!
JT and JJ halftime show?
That should be etched into your brain. Why do you hate America so much?
:lol
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Maybe it's because I despise Nance, but I haven't warmed to Romo yet. I actually liked Phil Simms, so for me, so far, it's not a trade up.
Well, I can see how someone might not prefer Nance, but despise? He seems to be a pretty likable guy. I thought Simms was pretty good and knowledgeable, but Romo has a lot more energy and really gets into the game. I think fans can really appreciate his enthusiasm.
A bit too much, IMO. He's annoyed me a couple of times, but I am warming to him.
I was wondering if they keep those guys on a delay, because it's only a matter of time before Romo calls something bullshit or exclaims what the fuck! I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, assuming it hasn't, but it will.
Yeah, I get it. He has a tendency to go over the top sometimes, but that's just him. As far as being professional, I don't think that'll be an issue. Especially if there's an Al Michaels and Ron Jaworski delay. :rollin
Maybe it's because I despise Nance, but I haven't warmed to Romo yet. I actually liked Phil Simms, so for me, so far, it's not a trade up.
Well, I can see how someone might not prefer Nance, but despise? He seems to be a pretty likable guy. I thought Simms was pretty good and knowledgeable, but Romo has a lot more energy and really gets into the game. I think fans can really appreciate his enthusiasm.
My hatred for him goes back to the 1999 NCAA Championship Game between Duke and UConn, and UConn was leading most of the game, and to hear Nance and Billy Packer talk about it was just... deplorable (can I say that?). It was never "look at this UConn team!" it was always "well, Duke is going to have to play Duke basketball to get this where it should be" and "Duke this" and "Duke that", as if UConn was upsetting the cosmos by fucking with the order of things. Even at the end - UConn won 77-74 - it wasn't about the UConn team it was about the Duke team. It's almost like they were homers rooting for their team and were disappointed when it didn't work out in their favor. It was an upset, to be sure, but it shouldn't have been that big a surprise to someone that knew about the game and was unbiased. UConn was like ten point underdogs in the game, but they were a good solid team, number one in the country for about half the season, Big East regular season and tournament champions, and number one seed in the tourney.
Dude! That is like ancient history man. Gotta let that shit go. :biggrin:
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The hit on Flacco was nasty, but like many have said, unavoidable. The defender is going full speed and led with his shoulder; just awful timing that Flacco slid late when he did.
As for Suh, you can't help but wonder how dirty you have to get on the field to actually get kicked out of a game. The NFL supposedly cares about player safety, yet a guy with a long history of being dirty grabs a player by the throat and tries to throw him down and doesn't get kicked out. Bang up job, NFL. :tdwn :tdwn
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Sensitive ass players in Houston taking their owner's figure of speech literally for some reason.
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Probably not the best choice of words to use that old cliche, but it is a take on a fairly common cliche ("can't let the inmates run the asylum."). That said, I am not shocked that many are outraged over it, because this is 2017 where everything is offensive.
Houston will probably get drilled by Seattle now on Sunday now that a portion of the team got themselves distracted by this silliness.
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Probably not the best choice of words to use that old cliche, but it is a take on a fairly common cliche ("can't let the inmates run the asylum."). That said, I am not shocked that many are outraged over it, because this is 2017 where everything is offensive.
Well, everything except choking a QB, or taking his head off as he's sliding.
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The hit on Flacco was nasty, but like many have said, unavoidable. The defender is going full speed and led with his shoulder; just awful timing that Flacco slid late when he did.
As for Suh, you can't help but wonder how dirty you have to get on the field to actually get kicked out of a game. The NFL supposedly cares about player safety, yet a guy with a long history of being dirty grabs a player by the throat and tries to throw him down and doesn't get kicked out. Bang up job, NFL. :tdwn :tdwn
As a Ravens fan I hope this inspires Joe to take a pay cut ( for some help on the line ) or retire. And the choke hold will possibly get some other players minds back in the game , a lot of " ho-hum " attitudes and distractions recently. 40 -0 I'm sure Ndkong and the other hacks were jacked , hell I picked this as a loss for us.
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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ndamukong-suh-reportedly-wont-be-suspended-for-throat-grab-against-ravens-player/
What the fuck kind of league is this? Suh was acting in self defense? Against Ryan Mallett? Guess they just wanted to take his long history of good sportsmanship into account.
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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ndamukong-suh-reportedly-wont-be-suspended-for-throat-grab-against-ravens-player/
What the fuck kind of league is this? Suh was acting in self defense? Against Ryan Mallett? Guess they just wanted to take his long history of good sportsmanship into account.
This league is becoming more of a joke each year. I stopped watching that game some time in the first half... was Suh ejected after the second unnecessary roughness penalty since it was his second personal foul?
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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ndamukong-suh-reportedly-wont-be-suspended-for-throat-grab-against-ravens-player/
What the fuck kind of league is this? Suh was acting in self defense? Against Ryan Mallett? Guess they just wanted to take his long history of good sportsmanship into account.
Being a life-long Steelers fan, I realize that some might find my next statement to be hypocritical, but here goes anyways... (James Harrison has been accused of being a cheap shot artist for years, but I don't buy into it)
Suh and Burfict need to be sat down for an entire season, or more. They've both demonstrated time and time again that they're unable to control themselves on the field. The level of cognitive dissonance that the league continuously demonstrates in suspending players that decide to toke up a lefty then look the other way when others intentionally try to physically harm other players outside the bounds of the game itself is simply breath taking to behold.
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Part of it is because our new baby is taking up whatever free time I used to have, but this is the first Sunday this season where I seem to have zero interest in the NFL. I never thought I am caught up in this protesting issue, but I do feel it, among other issues, are spiraling out of control and negatively affecting my interest in the sport. I'll still listen to Jim Rome and Tiki and Tierney tomorrow to hear about today's games, but I hope the games is all I hear about. Not protesting, not players choking others trying to "defend" themselves, not players demanding trades because they aren't getting the ball enough...
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Listening to Tiki and Tierney would also decrease interest in the sport too. ;D
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Was waiting for someone to comment! I actually flip between the national and local shows, depending on who is talking about what.
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Christ, I wonder if that Bademosi dude can play WR. That didn't look very good for Hogan.
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Yeah. That Hogan injury looks like a broken bone. I'm hoping a deep bone bruise.
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Patriots D inexplicably carrying the team lately. 13 points per game allowed in the last month. The offense scoring only 22 a game in that same stretch.
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Strange season so far, yet 6-2 heading into the bye. Got some tough games in 2nd half.
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And nice work by the Raiders to "save their season" last week with that comeback against the Chiefs, only to get drilled by the Bills today. :lol :lol :lol
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Yeah. That Hogan injury looks like a broken bone. I'm hoping a deep bone bruise.
I don't think anything was broken. There's something torn up in his shoulder.
Patriots D inexplicably carrying the team lately. 13 points per game allowed in the last month. The offense scoring only 22 a game in that same stretch.
The D shouldn't surprise anybody. Like I've said, they've got good players out there. They only needed to get their act together. The O is strange, though. They've got a solid run game and Brady is playing just fine. They have a hard time stringing plays together.
And damn. The Skins were fixing to go up by 9 and wound up down 1 on a blocked kick. Huge play.
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Bill O'Brien wins the award for Dumbest Head Coach...again. Man, talk about having no balls.
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I've never been this cautiously optimistic during a Saints 5+ game winning streak. The defense is shockingly pulling us through games left and right but the offense has dulled so severely plus the teams we've beaten are Carolina, Miami, Detroit, Rodgers-less Green Bay, and Chicago.
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If you were absorbed into the NFL from the AAFC, this just ain't your year. If you were ever coached by Dick Vermeil, this has been a fine year.
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I watched the Bears/Saints game today. I think they said it was the first time that the Saints won a game that Brees didn't throw a TD since 2009.
I do have to say that the Bears got screwed on that play that their TE blew his knee. That was definitely a TD.
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I agree 100%. I also thought it was completely corrupt how they seemingly gave the Bears a makeup call by calling facemasking on a play where replay revealed that the flag was thrown when no Saints player was within 1 yard of the receiver.
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If you were absorbed into the NFL from the AAFC, this just ain't your year. If you were ever coached by Dick Vermeil, this has been a fine year.
Those are some astute observations :tup Great history lesson as well.
I watch the second half of SNF, and see my old Lions are still the same. Almost good enough at times, but still can't get over the hump. The first failed 4th down, followed by the 97 yard JuJu TD, two failures inside the 10 late on.....and then a fumble without being touched. Third most total yards in a game without a TD. I feel for my old friends back in Michigan. [cue fadeout of The Talking Heads 'Once In A Lifetime'.....same as it ever was, same as it ever was................]
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If you were absorbed into the NFL from the AAFC, this just ain't your year. If you were ever coached by Dick Vermeil, this has been a fine year.
Those are some astute observations :tup Great history lesson as well.
I watch the second half of SNF, and see my old Lions are still the same. Almost good enough at times, but still can't get over the hump. The first failed 4th down, followed by the 97 yard JuJu TD, two failures inside the 10 late on.....and then a fumble without being touched. Third most total yards in a game without a TD. I feel for my old friends back in Michigan. [cue fadeout of The Talking Heads 'Once In A Lifetime'.....same as it ever was, same as it ever was................]
Thanks dude! I was thinking only Kev or this other member whose name currently escapes me would get those references. The dude was really knowledgeable and knew the origins of each NFL team and even once made a post that fairly accurately depicted how each team in the NFL has performed in terms of winning championships relative to the age of the respective franchises and how many teams were in the NFL for each year of each franchise's existence. Yeshaberto was the first name that came to mind but I doubt it was him. I think he was just posting frquently in the NFL thread around that time so I'm probably confusing him for the actual dude I'm talking about.
Sorry bout your Lions though. I think they're my second favorite NFC team behind, obviously, the Saints. I have a soft spot for teams that have struggled immensely and also enjoyed the fuck out of the Barry Sanders years. Another thing cementing my affinity for them was the fact that in 2014 they had 4 players and an OC that were from the Saints: Reggie Bush, Isa Abdul-Quddus, Joique Bell, Jed Collins, and Joe Lombardi. Additionally, Nick Fairley is now on the Saints.
I really hope they turn it around while Matt Stafford still has some good years left. He seems like a nice, chill dude and goes out and fucks the shit out of the stat sheet most weeks. He's damn near Archie Manning in regard to his talent level to team performance ratio.
I'm bummed out to see the Cards' window is basically closing though. I took a shine to them off and on when they started having occasional good years like in the 1998 season where they beat Troy Aikman's Cowboys in Dallas and came one shitty defensive drive from winning XLIII. That fandom is also bolstered by Louisiana ties with them having Patrick Peterson and Tyrann Mathieu in their secondary.
I don't like it when they play each other though cuz they're basically #2 and #2.1 for me in the NFC so I hate seeing either lose when either of them winning wouldn't adversely affect the Saints' playoff prospects.
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Crazy stat that Stafford has only had 7 games where his RB has over 100 yards. He's also on of the most sacked QB's. I was disappointed that Michaels and Collinsworth seemed to blame that more on the RB's than the O-line. You put Abdullah behind a strong O-line and he'd be a top 5 RB.
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There are certainly delays with regards to how the broadcast gets to you. I know there are several seconds between CATV and OTA broadcasts. I stream games via P2P and I'm usually a couple of minutes behind. That's not the same as a broadcast delay, where somebody's got 7 seconds to dump the audio after a drunken Al Michaels says "filthy cunt whore" live on the air. However, now that I think about it, after the tragic events of 2/1/04 I'm pretty sure there's a mandated delay.
NEVER FORGET!
JT and JJ halftime show?
That should be etched into your brain. Why do you hate America so much?
That got an honest to goodness laugh out loud. Joke of the week, so far.
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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ndamukong-suh-reportedly-wont-be-suspended-for-throat-grab-against-ravens-player/
What the fuck kind of league is this? Suh was acting in self defense? Against Ryan Mallett? Guess they just wanted to take his long history of good sportsmanship into account.
This league is becoming more of a joke each year. I stopped watching that game some time in the first half... was Suh ejected after the second unnecessary roughness penalty since it was his second personal foul?
This league is almost as random as the scoring in my roulette. I swear, Roger Goodell makes decisions with a 12-sided Dungeons and Dragons cube.
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I agree 100%. I also thought it was completely corrupt how they seemingly gave the Bears a makeup call by calling facemasking on a play where replay revealed that the flag was thrown when no Saints player was within 1 yard of the receiver.
I think it was after the break, the commentators showed that the face mask was called on the wrong player and then showed where it happened. There actually was one, the refs just blew the player number.
To make things worse, they are trying to save Zach Miller's leg right now. Artery damage and he may lose it.
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Dude. That is terrible. I really hope this isn't as bad as they think and that he recovers fully. No one should ever come out that bad from a play like that no matter how bad it looked.
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I saw that Zach Miller play and it looked nasty like the bone snapped. It's not actually broken?
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I saw that Zach Miller play and it looked nasty like the bone snapped. It's not actually broken?
He dislocated his knee and then they discovered that he also tore an artery. He had emergency vascular surgery where they grafted in a vein from his other leg in an attempt to save the bad one. Word right now is that the surgery was successful but he is not out of the woods yet.
I would guess his career is probably over at 33 after this, either way.
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Damn, what a shame if it turns out to be career ending. Sucks that the booth review took away the TD too. It looks like he controlled the ball all the way to the ground and then set the ball down afterward.
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That Calvin Johnson rule needs to go. So many catches have been overturned by it. Zach was never going to stand up after that catch. He put the ball down after rolling over with it and they take the TD away. Just a dumb rule.
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SF is acquiring Garoppolo for a 2nd round pick. Interesting.
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Apparently the 49ers just released Brian Hoyer. Wouldn't be surprised to see him back here.
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Hoyer was reportedly originally part of the trade, but Belichick didn't want it to mess with his compensatory picks. So now they'll just sign him, most likely.
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I'll guess there was never more than a second round pick offered before the season started. What a big chance if Brady gets injured.
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All they could get was a second? Like, when they asked for a second and a sixth John Lynch laughed at them? Cleveland wasn't offering anything better than that? I totally get unloading the kid, they really didn't have any choice, but I expected a little more.
Yesterday this showed up. I have no idea WTF Business Insider knows about football, and they only cited a podcast they I'll never bother listening to, but if Ian Rapoport actually said this the it's pretty clear that Bill played him like a fiddle.
https://www.businessinsider.com/jimmy-garoppolo-patriots-future-quarterback-awkward-2017-10
I never saw much in Garapollo. He might have been pretty good under Belichick, but I reckon he'll just be another Cassel in SF. I also figure Bill suspects as much. He's expecting SF to remain in the running for highest pick.
If I'm Buffalo I'm signing Hoyer off waivers to my practice squad just to be a dick.
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But you can sign guys off of practice squads so that won't keep him away from the Pats.
I'm not sure what I missed from the Rappaport story. It doesn't really say anything.
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SF is acquiring Garoppolo for a 2nd round pick. Interesting.
This is, frankly, baffling to me. I totally get that you can drive yourself mad by trying to put yourself in the Belichick mindset, but he's 24, he's not breaking the bank financially (I think Brissett was around $500k per year, and he's about $850k), he's expressed interest in remaining a Patriot, and the Pats have seemed to given an indication that he was - until yesterday - being looked at as the future of the Pats. It's easy to then say "well, there's more to this", but what more is there? Is this Bill's knee jerk reaction to an opening gambit by Garappolo's agent? I haven't read the details yet, but these deals are usually contingent on signing the guy at the time of the trade, but in the odd event that Jimmy does still hit the market after the season, does Bill think that he can have his cake and eat it too?
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Pats are the most economic team in the league. They're not gonna franchise Garapollo with cap money while they still have Brady. It was a smart move.
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SF is acquiring Garoppolo for a 2nd round pick. Interesting.
This is, frankly, baffling to me. I totally get that you can drive yourself mad by trying to put yourself in the Belichick mindset, but he's 24, he's not breaking the bank financially (I think Brissett was around $500k per year, and he's about $850k), he's expressed interest in remaining a Patriot, and the Pats have seemed to given an indication that he was - until yesterday - being looked at as the future of the Pats. It's easy to then say "well, there's more to this", but what more is there? Is this Bill's knee jerk reaction to an opening gambit by Garappolo's agent? I haven't read the details yet, but these deals are usually contingent on signing the guy at the time of the trade, but in the odd event that Jimmy does still hit the market after the season, does Bill think that he can have his cake and eat it too?
They were never going to be able to keep Garopollo and Brady. They had to choose one. Trading him now got something (not a lot), whereas letting him walk in FA would get them less. Honestly, if they really thought that he was the future of the franchise they would have traded Brady. Or just cut him after the season. I think they've just been hyping Jimmy's value.
I'm not sure what I missed from the Rappaport story. It doesn't really say anything.
According to the story Rapoport says that Garopollo is the future franchise QB two days before they jettison him. I suspect somebody within the Patriots fed him that story hoping to increase his value.
But you can sign guys off of practice squads so that won't keep him away from the Pats.
Then make him the number 3. The details don't really matter. Fucking over the Patriots when given the opportunity does.
edit: On a side note, I'm actually kind of excited to see Garopollo get a chance. Really curious to see what he does.
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I'm not sure what I missed from the Rappaport story. It doesn't really say anything.
According to the story Rapoport says that Garopollo is the future franchise QB two days before they jettison him. I suspect somebody within the Patriots fed him that story hoping to increase his value.
Oh, ok, I wasn't sure what I was missing. I mean Rapp mentions it on a podcast. I think it's been clear all along that they viewed him as the future franchise QB.
I don't think anyone handed Rapp any new quotes on the subject.
They already have Schefter to carry their water.
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I'm not sure what I missed from the Rappaport story. It doesn't really say anything.
According to the story Rapoport says that Garopollo is the future franchise QB two days before they jettison him. I suspect somebody within the Patriots fed him that story hoping to increase his value.
Oh, ok, I wasn't sure what I was missing. I mean Rapp mentions it on a podcast. I think it's been clear all along that they viewed him as the future franchise QB.
I don't think anyone handed Rapp any new quotes on the subject.
They already have Schefter to carry their water.
I've always suspected it was bullshit. I guess now we'll find out.
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I don't think it was BS at all. I think they were very high on him. They are just not "$20 Million for a backup" high on him.
Plus, it seems like Jimmy G was forcing their hand on this. He could've flat out told him he wasn't signing no matter what.
Bart. not sure if you follow Mike Giardi, but he is Jimmy G's media guy. He'll tell you the story from JG's side.
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I do know this: what makes a great backup doesn't necessarily make a great starter, and vice versa. Belichick has ridden 17 years of having a team built around ONE GUY (Brady) and for him to let Jimmy go is clear message that Jim wasn't the guy. Because part of being the guy would be for Jim to tell his agent "Make it happen. Somehow, some way, make it happen". If this did start with him asking for starter money, it's Wes Welker all over again. And you've seen how well Wes has done for the Patriots in the last five years.
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I do know this: what makes a great backup doesn't necessarily make a great starter, and vice versa. Belichick has ridden 17 years of having a team built around ONE GUY (Brady) and for him to let Jimmy go is clear message that Jim wasn't the guy. Because part of being the guy would be for Jim to tell his agent "Make it happen. Somehow, some way, make it happen". If this did start with him asking for starter money, it's Wes Welker all over again. And you've seen how well Wes has done for the Patriots in the last five years.
No it isn't. If Brady retired last year, we'd be watching Jimmy G every Sunday. Jimmy G wasn't asking for starter money (I mean, I'm sure he was), but he's asking TO START. He wants to play. And since Brady isn't going anywhere, this finally came to the head that we've been expecting. This had nothing to do with them determining JG wasn't the guy.
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I don't think it was BS at all. I think they were very high on him. They are just not "$20 Million for a backup" high on him.
Plus, it seems like Jimmy G was forcing their hand on this. He could've flat out told him he wasn't signing no matter what.
Bart. not sure if you follow Mike Giardi, but he is Jimmy G's media guy. He'll tell you the story from JG's side.
Was he a $20 million starter guy? If he were then we'd be seeing Brady in his final year as a Patriot and Jimmy would already be cashing checks. Business is business and both Bill and Brady know that. Dumping 12 for 10 was the smart move if 10 were the future.
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I don't think it was BS at all. I think they were very high on him. They are just not "$20 Million for a backup" high on him.
Plus, it seems like Jimmy G was forcing their hand on this. He could've flat out told him he wasn't signing no matter what.
Bart. not sure if you follow Mike Giardi, but he is Jimmy G's media guy. He'll tell you the story from JG's side.
Was he a $20 million starter guy? If he were then we'd be seeing Brady in his final year as a Patriot and Jimmy would already be cashing checks. Business is business and both Bill and Brady know that. Dumping 12 for 10 was the smart move if 10 were the future.
But this has really been the debate now for a couple of years. Do you take three more years of Brady, or ten years of Garrapollo? It's really an issue of timing than it is in their confidence of JG. He's not Brady. Never gonna be. But with Brady likely to play 2-3 more years, a decision was going to have to be made.
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I don't think it was BS at all. I think they were very high on him. They are just not "$20 Million for a backup" high on him.
Plus, it seems like Jimmy G was forcing their hand on this. He could've flat out told him he wasn't signing no matter what.
Bart. not sure if you follow Mike Giardi, but he is Jimmy G's media guy. He'll tell you the story from JG's side.
Was he a $20 million starter guy? If he were then we'd be seeing Brady in his final year as a Patriot and Jimmy would already be cashing checks. Business is business and both Bill and Brady know that. Dumping 12 for 10 was the smart move if 10 were the future.
But this has really been the debate now for a couple of years. Do you take three more years of Brady, or ten years of Garrapollo? It's really an issue of timing than it is in their confidence of JG. He's not Brady. Never gonna be. But with Brady likely to play 2-3 more years, a decision was going to have to be made.
If you think Jimmy is a franchise QB you go with him. Brady might have 3 years, but I doubt it, and as we saw with Peyton the end doesn't creep up on you. It blindsides you. My hunch is that Brady isn't starting the 2020 season, and if JG were the guy he's be in his prime at that point. I get that Bill's trying to get as much as he can out of Brady, and I can't blame him. They're into uncharted territory already. But I think he sees the big picture.
And I still haven't seen anything in JG's starts that lead me to believe he's the guy people want him to be.
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If the Pats had to slap the Franchise tag on Jimmy G. it would have been for $22 Million.
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Post-Week 8 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. Philadelphia - the addition of Ajayi should help
2. Pittsburgh - can this last?
3. New England - defense is playing well
4. Kansas City - the run D is really leaky now
5. Seattle - getting that OT is huge
6. New Orleans - it's a good sign to win a game when you didn't play well
7. LA Rams - will the O stay hot as it gets cold out?
8. Jacksonville - what is their upside?
9. Buffalo - Benjamin is not that good, but still becomes the Bills best WR
10. Minnesota - will Bradford or Bridgewater return?
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz - still the leading contender
2. Tom Brady - not finishing drives as much, but still playing well
3. Alex Smith - still no INTs
4. Todd Gurley - dual threat
5. LeVeon Bell - another dual threat
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So does Bill continue coaching after Brady is gone? I often forget he's the second oldest coach in the NFL. The Garopollo deal makes it look like he's burning the candle at both ends, which would make sense. Win as much as you can while you can. At the same time, I always figured he'd want to set things up to keep on rolling after he's gone. He strikes me as the sort that'd be planning 5 years ahead of his exit. Dude's gotta be mindful of the legacy they've built, and I'd assume he'd want it to continue on. A lasting legacy is better than a past one. It's a safe bet their next HC is already part of the organization, but I figured he'd also want the next cornerstone to be there in a QB. Leaving JMD in charge with no QB doesn't seem like his style, but I certainly could be wrong.
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Garopollo was the next guy. Brady and his ridiculous last couple of years got in the way.
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As I'm driving around I'm listening to local talk radio and I'm hearing all these conspiracy theories on the Garoppolo trade and why Belichick is doing it. What a bunch of crazy idiots. the theory that people come up with are so bleeping nuts makes me turn off Sports Talk Radio.
It's real simple. Belichick wanted to keep Garoppolo but couldn't because of Brady's elite play. Knowing Garoppolo will not stay because he wants to be a starter and was not negotiating at all with the Patriots for a large pay for a backup while he could be the man in another organization and then to top it make more money.
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It's real simple. Belichick wanted to keep Garoppolo but couldn't because of Brady's elite play. Knowing Garoppolo will not stay because he wants to be a starter and was not negotiating at all with the Patriots for a large pay for a backup while he could be the man in another organization and then to top it make more money.
Damn conspiracy theory.
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I know there are fans, but I can't help myself. So, the 'Clowns' live up to their glorious reputation yet again. They are tardy in filing the trade papers to the league office by the mandated deadline.
A.J. McCarron should thank his lucky stars
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Yeah Joe. What a glorious story.
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Post-Week 8 Power Rankings
Top 10
Pittsburgh - can this last?
This is a 11-5 team, in my opinion. Good enough for either a 2, or a 3 seed in the playoff picture. They have 2 glaring flaws. The first is their run defense. The second is their lack of production in the red zone.
Their special teams could also go either way. Their punter has one of the worst net averages in the league, their kick coverage has a legacy of being leaky and they demonstrated their occasional tendency of poor decision making by returners in the KC game.
If this team cleans up the distraction issues that have been plaguing them for the entire season (Bell's holdout, Bryant's reinstatement and Bryant's unhappiness), and addresses their flaws then they'll be a contender. If not then they'll lose in the AFCCG once again.
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So does Bill continue coaching after Brady is gone? I often forget he's the second oldest coach in the NFL. The Garopollo deal makes it look like he's burning the candle at both ends, which would make sense. Win as much as you can while you can. At the same time, I always figured he'd want to set things up to keep on rolling after he's gone. He strikes me as the sort that'd be planning 5 years ahead of his exit. Dude's gotta be mindful of the legacy they've built, and I'd assume he'd want it to continue on. A lasting legacy is better than a past one. It's a safe bet their next HC is already part of the organization, but I figured he'd also want the next cornerstone to be there in a QB. Leaving JMD in charge with no QB doesn't seem like his style, but I certainly could be wrong.
Probably not for long. The fact that he has stopped stockpiling draft picks and going all-in to win now tells me that he is no longer looking far ahead. When Brady is done, I will be shocked if Bill is there coaching there for more than a year after.
Post-Week 8 Power Rankings
Top 10
Pittsburgh - can this last?
This is a 11-5 team, in my opinion. Good enough for either a 2, or a 3 seed in the playoff picture. They have 2 glaring flaws. The first is their run defense. The second is their lack of production in the red zone.
Their special teams could also go either way. Their punter has one of the worst net averages in the league, their kick coverage has a legacy of being leaky and they demonstrated their occasional tendency of poor decision making by returners in the KC game.
If this team cleans up the distraction issues that have been plaguing them for the entire season (Bell's holdout, Bryant's reinstatement and Bryant's unhappiness), and addresses their flaws then they'll be a contender. If not then they'll lose in the AFCCG once again.
The seeding will say it all when it comes to the AFC.
NE owns Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh owns KC
KC and NE is a toss-up
All depends on what the 2 vs. 3 matchup is, and then who they face in the AFCCG.
For the Steelers, the best scenario is obviously getting the 1 seed, having KC beat NE in the divisional round, and then getting to host the Chiefs in the AGCCG.
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I think they have a chance being a 2 or 3 and going to KC. Otherwise, I'm on board with you.
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For the Steelers, the best scenario is obviously getting the 1 seed, having KC beat NE in the divisional round, and then getting to host the Chiefs in the AGCCG.
That's the only path I see for them to get to the Super Bowl.
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I think we have a better chance figuring out what Axl Rose is thinking than Bill Belichick, but if I'm thinking of returning anyway, and my guy (Brady) goes, I think I go. What's the upside? You're already the greatest coach of all time; if you win with NE's version of Aaron Rodgers, does it make you "more greatest"? If you lose with NE's version of Trevor Simian, you tarnish the reputation, even if it's just that little bit.
Belichick's not the only guy in the organization, and so I don't see a wholesale sellout of the team just for a year or two of glory. I also am not of the opinion that this deal is a final statement. How many times has LeGarett Blount been in and out of New England?
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I think we have a better chance figuring out what Axl Rose is thinking than Bill Belichick, but if I'm thinking of returning anyway, and my guy (Brady) goes, I think I go. What's the upside? You're already the greatest coach of all time; if you win with NE's version of Aaron Rodgers, does it make you "more greatest"? If you lose with NE's version of Trevor Simian, you tarnish the reputation, even if it's just that little bit.
Belichick's not the only guy in the organization, and so I don't see a wholesale sellout of the team just for a year or two of glory. I also am not of the opinion that this deal is a final statement. How many times has LeGarett Blount been in and out of New England?
Fewer times than Julian Edelman.
I'm with Kev, though. Sure seems to me that he's going all in to win whatever he can on his way out. I always assumed he'd set the team up to continue on without him, and I suppose he still might. That's just not what it's looking like right now. And the upside is being the architect of something that endures.
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Let me ask you this, not as argument, but just throwing out ideas: What IS Belichick's legacy? Is it really a suite of players that can continue to win, or is it the system? Doesn't it sort of go against the Belichick philosophy to just hand over a bunch of players to Josh or Matt and say "run with it"?
I think the crux of the Belichick philosophy is this: Be smarter and tougher than the guy across from you, and DO YOUR JOB. I feel like if you gave Belichick 50 random players and two weeks, he would crush any coach in the history of the game in a best of three (to take out the "Any given Sunday" factor). Part of the coach's job is to assemble the players they have into a workable unit (well, three of them). Sure, you stockpile those guys that work for you (Brady, Brown, Edelman, Adam Gostkowski, Wilfork) but you don't marry yourself to them.
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Yeah, I think I agree with that. And I'm not saying he is trying to intentionally tank the team when he leaves, but...if the team were to tank after he was gone, wouldn't that sort of tend to prove that the team has owed this era of success more to Belichick than anything else?
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DeShaun Watson just blew out his ACL in practice.
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DeShaun Watson just blew out his ACL in practice.
Damn that is terrible
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DeShaun Watson just blew out his ACL in practice.
Ah no. Man what a shame. Maybe this pliability thing Brady talks about all the time is really true. So many people get hurt in football these days without taking a hit.
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The Steelers posted on Facebook earlier that Ben is the only QB in NFL history with 3 TD's longer than 94 yards. It kind of made sense the more I thought about it considering how bad they are in the red zone. If ya can't score up close, you might as well take it as far as you can the other way.
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My cousin told me that he bet money on the Jets plus the points tonight against the Bills, and his logic for the bet was really sound:
"I just can't see the Bills being good enough to be 6-2."
Three hours later...Jets 34, Bills 14. :lol :lol :lol
DeShaun Watson just blew out his ACL in practice.
Awful. Hate to see a great young talent like this get hurt.
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Thanks Jets! :lol
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I'm convinced that ST coaches are the dumbest coaches in any sport. Any kickoff into the end zone should NEVER be brought out; kneel in the end zone every single time.
I don't know the percentages, but I'll bet at least 75% of them don't make it back to the 25, and I've lost track of how many times I've seen a team start inside the 10 because the returner brought it out of the end zone and then a hold or block in the back occurred.
How are professional coaches this stupid?
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I don't always change teams. But when I do HOLY SHIT
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See ya back on the field in a few weeks, AJ Green (unless the NFL shows once again that they have no balls).
The MVP is now Wentz's to lose. He is tearing the Broncos no fly zone to shreds.
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I'm convinced that ST coaches are the dumbest coaches in any sport. Any kickoff into the end zone should NEVER be brought out; kneel in the end zone every single time.
I don't know the percentages, but I'll bet at least 75% of them don't make it back to the 25, and I've lost track of how many times I've seen a team start inside the 10 because the returner brought it out of the end zone and then a hold or block in the back occurred.
How are professional coaches this stupid?
I've seen the stats. There is no benefit to bringing it out. It's something that's driven me nuts for years now.
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See ya back on the field in a few weeks, AJ Green (unless the NFL shows once again that they have no balls).
Holy shit. :lol
I actually thought Suh's was far worse, and he walked, but the NFL makes shit up as they go. They'll probably suspend Green for 6 weeks and the guy he choked for 10. Who the hell knows anymore.
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Mike Evans with a messed up cheap shot as well
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I'm convinced that ST coaches are the dumbest coaches in any sport. Any kickoff into the end zone should NEVER be brought out; kneel in the end zone every single time.
I don't know the percentages, but I'll bet at least 75% of them don't make it back to the 25, and I've lost track of how many times I've seen a team start inside the 10 because the returner brought it out of the end zone and then a hold or block in the back occurred.
How are professional coaches this stupid?
I've seen the stats. There is no benefit to bringing it out. It's something that's driven me nuts for years now.
Unless you're Deion Sanders or Devin Hester, you should never bring the ball out of the end zone if you're more than two yards back.
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(https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23167759_10102477376978928_3753289847505221732_n.jpg?oh=67ca3611b0e9f7535ce4c59aea120216&oe=5A6205A1)
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Fighting in at least 3 games today. 3 players ejected in the AZ/SF game. Interesting week.
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Another great finish unfolding in Seattle
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I love seeing the Seattle D blow a game at the end. :tup :tup
(https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23167759_10102477376978928_3753289847505221732_n.jpg?oh=67ca3611b0e9f7535ce4c59aea120216&oe=5A6205A1)
:lol :lol :lol
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I don't always change teams. But when I do HOLY SHIT
No love for the Browns? 😉 They probably could use some new fans. But I can certainly see why you picked Philly.
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The next month will tell us a lot about Philly. Three of their four games are on the road at:
Dallas
Seattle
LA Rams
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The Steelers posted on Facebook earlier that Ben is the only QB in NFL history with 3 TD's longer than 94 yards. It kind of made sense the more I thought about it considering how bad they are in the red zone. If ya can't score up close, you might as well take it as far as you can the other way.
So how many have three TD's longer than 93 yards? Seems like an odd, random number. :) (And no, not ragging on Ben; I have nothing bad to say about his play on the field.)
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The next month will tell us a lot about Philly. Three of their four games are on the road at:
Dallas
Seattle
LA Rams
It's weird to see the Rams in that group but they've played lights out and turned it around that quick.
Makes me happy to know Jeff Fisher sucks. Though I know they added pieces this year as well.
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The Steelers posted on Facebook earlier that Ben is the only QB in NFL history with 3 TD's longer than 94 yards. It kind of made sense the more I thought about it considering how bad they are in the red zone. If ya can't score up close, you might as well take it as far as you can the other way.
So how many have three TD's longer than 93 yards? Seems like an odd, random number. :)
That always cracks me up. It's like being ranked in the top 103 of something.
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The Steelers posted on Facebook earlier that Ben is the only QB in NFL history with 3 TD's longer than 94 yards. It kind of made sense the more I thought about it considering how bad they are in the red zone. If ya can't score up close, you might as well take it as far as you can the other way.
So how many have three TD's longer than 93 yards? Seems like an odd, random number. :) (And no, not ragging on Ben; I have nothing bad to say about his play on the field.)
Oh, trust me. It was the pr for the team cherry picking stats. It's still impressive, but I completely agree that the 94 yard deal is an odd one.
I know that it looks like I've been ragging on my team a lot as of late, but I'm a dedicated fan. I know that they have great potential, and it gets frustrating watching them flounder at times.
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Niners fan checking in after a long absence from the thread... what a year...
I truly don't believe the Niners are as bad as their 0-9 record would suggest. Five games have been within 3 points, and all could have easily gone the other way. We've been devastated by injuries, and even after this abysmal season has dragged on we still put up a good fight yesterday. I really do think we could be 4-5 with a rerun from the start of the season.
The bright side is we weren't making the playoffs this year anyway, so hopefully this causes a bit of a breather and reset. Get everyone some playing time, cement the system, and be ready to come out hard next year. I think the new coach and GM and their moves will start clicking a lot better next year as things develop, and hopefully after we spend some extra cash on the O-line.
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The NFC race in the second half will be very interesting. Most of the contenders have a tough run coming up. The field could get even more muddied.
Rams - Vikings, Eagles, Seahawks, Saints
Vikings - Skins (who have beaten the Rams and Hawks), Rams, Panthers, Falcons
Eagles - Rams, Seahawks, Dallas x2, Raiders
Saints - Skins, Rams, Panthers, Falcons x2
Seahawks - Eagles, Rams, Jaguars, Falcons, Dallas
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The AFC south could end up being determined by the last game of the season. Jacksonville at Tennessee.
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The NFC race in the second half will be very interesting. Most of the contenders have a tough run coming up. The field could get even more muddied.
Saints - Skins, Rams, Panthers, Falcons x2
The Falcons need to win more games until I'd lump them into the "opponents to be wary of" category. They came close against Carolina yesterday but, until they can win consecutive games again, I doubt they present a real threat plus their little brother complex due to the Saints' utter dominance of them in the Brees/Payton era could really creep back into their heads if they aren't careful.
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Well, to be fair, the Falcons were the "opponents to be wary of" last year until the Pats stole that title away from them in the SB. As far as I'm concerned, Atlanta needs to win a SB to re-gain that title.
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Pats didn't steal it, they made Atlanta pee their jock straps.
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As things stand now... the NFC race is worlds more exciting than the AFC.
AFC has 3 SB contenders, New England, Pittsburgh & Kansas City, in that order.
The following teams could wind up winning the NFC: Seattle, Philadelphia, Dallas, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Carolina and maybe Minnesota, Atlanta, Washington or Detroit.
The crazy thing is, of the 6 NFC teams I mentioned (not including the maybes) they're all not even making the playoffs, where if they were in the AFC, they'd be locks.
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As things stand now... the NFC race is worlds more exciting than the AFC.
AFC has 3 SB contenders, New England, Pittsburgh & Kansas City, in that order.
The following teams could wind up winning the NFC: Seattle, Philadelphia, Dallas, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Carolina and maybe Minnesota, Atlanta, Washington or Detroit.
The crazy thing is, of the 6 NFC teams I mentioned (not including the maybes) they're all not even making the playoffs, where if they were in the AFC, they'd be locks.
DOC, do you seriously think Minnesota, Washington, or Detroit could come out of the NFC? No chance. I'm not counting out the others you listed, but those three will be long gone by the time the SB comes around.
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As things stand now... the NFC race is worlds more exciting than the AFC.
AFC has 3 SB contenders, New England, Pittsburgh & Kansas City, in that order.
The following teams could wind up winning the NFC: Seattle, Philadelphia, Dallas, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Carolina and maybe Minnesota, Atlanta, Washington or Detroit.
The crazy thing is, of the 6 NFC teams I mentioned (not including the maybes) they're all not even making the playoffs, where if they were in the AFC, they'd be locks.
DOC, do you seriously think Minnesota, Washington, or Detroit could come out of the NFC? No chance. I'm not counting out the others you listed, but those three will be long gone by the time the SB comes around.
I give them an outside chance at best. But Any of them could go on a run. Who knows?
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Yup. Outside. Outside of the SB. ;D
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21318091/nfl-suspend-aj-green-cincinnati-bengals-fighting
If Bob McNair really wasn't talking about the players he damn well should have been. The inmates are running the asylum.
There's a different story that Jalon Ramsay had to be restrained by stadium security while trying to get into the Bengals lockerroom to smash AJ Green's face in.
In other discipline news, I read an in depth article about the Ezekiel Elliot situation and learned a couple of things. For one, the lawyers that the league hired to investigate the alleged assaults actually recommended against disciplinary action. It seems the girl was actually less credible than him. More interesting to me, though, is that the players actually have a markedly improved legal situation right now, which will be gone once he loses his appeal (and he will lose his appeal). The most recent ruling is on the basis that the league's arbitration and appellate policy had to actually be fair. This was not the case and probably won't be once that ruling is tossed. He'd actually be doing both his team and the rest of the players a solid by dropping his appeals right now. The players will have better legal standing and the Cowboys will have him back for the playoffs.
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Post-Week 9 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. Philadelphia - firing on all cylinders
2. Pittsburgh - will the inevitable Tomlin-era letdowns happen?
3. New England - slowly getting better, as always
4. LA Rams - youngest coach in the league will be the Coach of the Year
5. New Orleans - 6 wins in a row!
6. Seattle - inconsistency is a bit puzzling, but they will be a team no one wants to play in January
7. Dallas - clicking at the right time, but will Elliot's suspension finally kick in?
8. Jacksonville - even Bortles is playing well (for him)
9. Carolina - defense is back to being studly
10. Minnesota - win will a depleted division, but their upside is limited
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz - what's scary is this guy will keep getting better
2. Tom Brady - deflation
3. LeVeon Bell - needs to be the focal point down the stretch
4. Todd Gurley - what a difference a year makes
5. Alex Smith - slipping back to being his usual self
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On the NFL radio show here in the UK last night, they posed an interesting question that I thought I would put to the forum:
After Sports Illustrated correctly predicted in 2014 that the 2017 World Series champions would be the Houston Astros, who will be the Super Bowl winners for the 2020 season?
Personally I'm feeling it will be the Chiefs or the Falcons. They're knocking on the door already, though Atlanta's loss at last year's Bowl might have knocked them back a year.
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Pats didn't steal it, they made Atlanta pee their jock straps.
:lol Yeah, they also shit themselves.
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On the NFL radio show here in the UK last night, they posed an interesting question that I thought I would put to the forum:
After Sports Illustrated correctly predicted in 2014 that the 2017 World Series champions would be the Houston Astros, who will be the Super Bowl winners for the 2020 season?
Personally I'm feeling it will be the Chiefs or the Falcons. They're knocking on the door already, though Atlanta's loss at last year's Bowl might have knocked them back a year.
In three years? I'd say the Eagles. What do you think Alex Smith will look like in three years?
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On the NFL radio show here in the UK last night, they posed an interesting question that I thought I would put to the forum:
After Sports Illustrated correctly predicted in 2014 that the 2017 World Series champions would be the Houston Astros, who will be the Super Bowl winners for the 2020 season?
Personally I'm feeling it will be the Chiefs or the Falcons. They're knocking on the door already, though Atlanta's loss at last year's Bowl might have knocked them back a year.
In three years? I'd say the Eagles. What do you think Alex Smith will look like in three years?
I think it's much easier to predict MLB 3 years ahead because you can look at the minor leagues and guaranteed contracts to gauge a team's potential, but the NFL in three years? Good luck :lol
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:lol You can't even predict the 2nd half of the season in the NFL.
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Incredibly hard to predict 2020 for a variety of reasons....but what the heck? Texans over the Cowboys
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On the NFL radio show here in the UK last night, they posed an interesting question that I thought I would put to the forum:
After Sports Illustrated correctly predicted in 2014 that the 2017 World Series champions would be the Houston Astros, who will be the Super Bowl winners for the 2020 season?
Personally I'm feeling it will be the Chiefs or the Falcons. They're knocking on the door already, though Atlanta's loss at last year's Bowl might have knocked them back a year.
In three years? I'd say the Eagles. What do you think Alex Smith will look like in three years?
Or Matt Ryan.
:lol You can't even predict the 2nd half of the season in the NFL.
Or the 2nd Half of many games.
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Or the 4th quarter of a superbowl. :biggrin:
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Or the 4th quarter of a superbowl. :biggrin:
:clap:
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:lol
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So Jerry Jones is suing the NFL and the six owners on the compensation committee to block the extension of Goodell's contract. :rollin
What a hypocritical douchebag. Goodell's great when he's crooked on his side. Now that he's not he has to go. And the strange part is that I agree with him factually. The system is bullshit and Goodell is to blame. It's still wonderful to see him look like such a jackass, yet again.
Where it gets interesting is how this might play out. On the one hand, if your league commissioner is such a fuck up that owners start suing each other, it's in everyone's best interest to shit-can him. Seems pretty obvious to me. Yet that wouldn't be a great message to send to the players or the owners themselves; disagree with the commish, hire a lawyer. There's also the fact that this is the most powerful owner in the league going to war with quite possibly the next four. Hunt, Rooney, Mara, Kraft. Not exactly weaklings at the table. This has the makings of a civil war, which quite honestly, would be a God damned hoot.
Also, if you're Roger Goodell, isn't the appropriate professional move to announce your resignation tomorrow morning? Seems to me that the reason this is a job is to prevent the owners from stabbing each other in their necks. Stepping aside would prevent that.
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To be honest with you I'm really happy to see all these owners clawing and eating at each other. They are really the bad guys and the bells just a puppet of their whims.
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Or the 4th quarter of a superbowl. :biggrin:
I imagine you (rightfully) got tremendous pleasure from pointing that out. :) :) :)
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I do. You should have seen the texting from other Site Managers in my company harassing me during the game. Got real quiet in the 4th quarter. Boy did I let them have it.
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Awesomeness before tonight's game. I can't post images. Blow me Twitter.
https://twitter.com/ArizonaDOT/status/928614676006551552/photo/1
https://twitter.com/wsdot/status/928652134748270592
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Bennett picked up by the Pats. I like it.
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Bennett picked up by the Pats. I like it.
If he can still walk I love it. He's been seriously hobbled this year, which is probably why the 6-2 Pats could get him off of waivers.
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Even at 70% he's better than Allen who has 0 catches this season.
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Doesn't he hold a record for being on the most teams in the shortest amount of time? If I'm thinking of the right Bennett. I swear I heard that somewhere...
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Bennett picked up by the Pats. I like it.
If he can still walk I love it. He's been seriously hobbled this year, which is probably why the 6-2 Pats could get him off of waivers.
he quit on the Packers as soon as Rodgers got hurt. He is getting crushed in these parts.
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Bennett picked up by the Pats. I like it.
If he can still walk I love it. He's been seriously hobbled this year, which is probably why the 6-2 Pats could get him off of waivers.
he quit on the Packers as soon as Rodgers got hurt. He is getting crushed in these parts.
Not surprised.
I heard that Aaron Rodgers can opt out after this year, and I think he should. The Packers have done him a major disservice by not surrounding him with a good enough supporting cast the last five years. That team is total crap without him. He should opt out and go to a franchise that will actually treat their star QB like one.
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Bennett picked up by the Pats. I like it.
If he can still walk I love it. He's been seriously hobbled this year, which is probably why the 6-2 Pats could get him off of waivers.
he quit on the Packers as soon as Rodgers got hurt. He is getting crushed in these parts.
Not surprised.
I heard that Aaron Rodgers can opt out after this year, and I think he should. The Packers have done him a major disservice by not surrounding him with a good enough supporting cast the last five years. That team is total crap without him. He should opt out and go to a franchise that will actually treat their star QB like one.
Yeah, heard Cowherd talking about that. He could demand huge $ on the open market.
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If Jerry were worth a damn he'd sue the league to do away with this color rush bullshit. What an eyesore.
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Can I ask a question?
On what grounds is Jones planning to sue?
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Jesse Pinkman's math sums up a potential Jerry Jones vs Roger Goodell war:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrLCU6cfOdc
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If Jerry were worth a damn he'd sue the league to do away with this color rush bullshit. What an eyesore.
It's so distracting.
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Turned on the local NBC news at 11pm last night, only to discover the Thursday Night pajama game was on. 'Hey, this is unexpected, I'll watch until the end.' Except that after about thirty seconds, those neon Seahawks unis were just way, way, way too much (as were the Cards all black). Just buffugly. I tuned out, and changed the channel to the local CBS station.
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If the NFL wasn't un-watchable for some already, these Thursday night uni's are certainly succeeding at turning the rest of the fans off. It's literally painful to watch.
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He should opt out and go to a franchise that will actually treat their star QB like one.
The Packers treat him as if he's the entire team and they don't need anyone around him to win. And they're right! They have a crap team and they would have won the NFC North with Rogers and made a good run at the Super Bowl. Rogers is by far the most valuable player in the NFL. I can't think of another player whose loss would devastate a team like Rogers' has.
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Martellus Bennett is already practicing with the Patriots after passing is med exam. Bet that dude catches a TD pass his first game back and I hear Packer's fans howling all the way in Dallas. :lol
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Bennett is trying to throw the Packers medical staff under the bus big time. He claims he was hurt, but the Packers doctors said he could play through it.
When Bennett ends up playing this weekend........
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Bennett is trying to throw the Packers medical staff under the bus big time. He claims he was hurt, but the Packers doctors said he could play through it.
When Bennett ends up playing this weekend........
He and his brother are both major liars.
Martellus has shown himself to be one of the biggest pieces of shit in the league, after what he pulled this week.
Wouldn't surprise me if the Patriots and he were in collusion so he could force his way out of GB and they could grab him off waivers.
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:lol
Worked so well with Blount a few years ago.
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Here's what I don't get. MB claims that he's hurt and the team doctor is ignoring him. Coach tells him to get outside opinions, which he does, and then they start discussing surgery. The Packers dump him, citing failure to disclose an injury. Now the Packers are all defending their doctor. Seems to me that either the doctor missed the injury or did as MB says and told him to suck it up, or there's no injury at all in which case the Packers were probably a little quick to dump him.
I get that MB isn't particularly trustworthy, and the whole thing is pretty damned peculiar. It just seems to me that the Packers have contributed their fair share to the strangeness of the situation.
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I feel really dirty for saying this, but Burfict's ejection seemed pretty ridiculous. Looked like the ref had his arm under VB's chin when he was starting to walk to his own sideline. Having said that, if Marvin Lewis weren't such a miserable failure of a coach he'd suspend Burfict for a game for celebrating his ejection. I want a player to be pissed off he can't help the team, not making money signs to the crowd.
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That loss pretty much spells the end of the Jets season. What a lifeless effort. This is the Jets team I was expecting to see this season and unfortunately that team finally showed up.
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I feel really dirty for saying this, but Burfict's ejection seemed pretty ridiculous. Looked like the ref had his arm under VB's chin when he was starting to walk to his own sideline. Having said that, if Marvin Lewis weren't such a miserable failure of a coach he'd suspend Burfict for a game for celebrating his ejection. I want a player to be pissed off he can't help the team, not making money signs to the crowd.
I was watching the Steelers game, and didn't see what got him tossed. Having said that, I'm not surprised by anything that I've ever seen that guy do on the field. He's put a target on himself, so a short leash is to be expected.
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I keep wanting to get excited for the Saints and I'm thrilled at how they've shaken off the rough start but I'm still really curious how we're gonna do against a really good team. The Bills seemed to have thrown in the towel for the rest of the game after they fell behind 30-3. I give the Saints all the credit in the world for getting that big of a lead but the Bills sure as shit made it easy on us. Between that and the injured/weakened/backup QBs we've faced, I'm still hoping to see that we can win against a proven contender playing at full strength.
I just hope the team doesn't look past the Redskins who they've historically struggled against losing many times even when favored and with Payton/Brees in the picture.
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The Broncos special teams are now as bad as the offense. Oof.
I feel really dirty for saying this, but Burfict's ejection seemed pretty ridiculous. Looked like the ref had his arm under VB's chin when he was starting to walk to his own sideline. Having said that, if Marvin Lewis weren't such a miserable failure of a coach he'd suspend Burfict for a game for celebrating his ejection. I want a player to be pissed off he can't help the team, not making money signs to the crowd.
I'm okay with Burfict getting ejected for looking at an official wrong.
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I'll take Denver field goals all night.
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Breathe on a NE WR? Pass interference.
Hit the Broncos QB late? No flag.
Just turned this off. Broncos weren't gonna win anyway.
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Don't agree with the first. Completely agree with the second.
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That was a TOUCHDOWN.
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What?...Osweiller threw a flop that would make the Montreal Canadiens jealous of.
And that was a catch.
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Rams are for real y'all!!! :metal :metal :metal Let's see how they do against the Eagles.
I'm one of the few who likes those Seahawks unis.
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Sorry to switch around from the Sunday Night game, but the media here in Minnesota keeps talking about how Teddy Bridgewater needs to get in the game and Keenum needs to go back to being backup. However, you talk to a lot of fans, myself included, and I think they should keep playing Case Keenum until he royally screws up. He's gotten us this far and it seems stupid to sit the hot hand in the middle of a playoff race for a guy who suffered a gruesome leg injury and hasn't played in a year.
I was hoping to see a little bit of Bridgewater if the score kept up, but the interceptions made it a game again....
...which I know destroys my whole point of playing Case over Teddy when the former is doing so much better, when Case throws back to back interceptions to the same guy, but I think the Vikes should keep playing Keenum until he loses.
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Sorry to switch around from the Sunday Night game, but the media here in Minnesota keeps talking about how Teddy Bridgewater needs to get in the game and Keenum needs to go back to being backup. However, you talk to a lot of fans, myself included, and I think they should keep playing Case Keenum until he royally screws up. He's gotten us this far and it seems stupid to sit the hot hand in the middle of a playoff race for a guy who suffered a gruesome leg injury and hasn't played in a year.
I was hoping to see a little bit of Bridgewater if the score kept up, but the interceptions made it a game again....
...which I know destroys my whole point of playing Case over Teddy when the former is doing so much better, when Case throws back to back interceptions to the same guy, but I think the Vikes should keep playing Keenum until he loses.
As a Vikings fan I agree with everything you said.
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Rams are for real y'all!!! :metal :metal :metal Let's see how they do against the Eagles.
I'm one of the few who likes those Seahawks unis.
Was at the game yesterday, first half was a bit scary. The old Rams would have folded like a cheap suit. Not these Rams!!!! Big tests coming the second half of the season... @Vikings, @Seahags, Eagles, @Titans, Saints. The good news is we're 5-0 away from the Coliseum this year... ;D
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That Bennett story is fascinating; I think you're going to hear more about that in the coming weeks.
Burfict; I get that I am now my grandfather, but for me, all the kneeling, and standing, all the day-glo uniforms... none of that is going to get me to stop watching the NFL. But if you keep celebrating guys like Burfict and Suh, you're going to lose me. These guys are big babies, and it's no surprise - not one bit - that the Dolphins and the Bengals are doormats for the good teams. Even Dallas, that is a great team, is not Super Bowl caliber, because of their discipline problems.
When will these coaches/GMs/owners learn?
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That Bennett story is fascinating; I think you're going to hear more about that in the coming weeks.
Burfict; I get that I am now my grandfather, but for me, all the kneeling, and standing, all the day-glo uniforms... none of that is going to get me to stop watching the NFL. But if you keep celebrating guys like Burfict and Suh, you're going to lose me. These guys are big babies, and it's no surprise - not one bit - that the Dolphins and the Bengals are doormats for the good teams. Even Dallas, that is a great team, is not Super Bowl caliber, because of their discipline problems.
When will these coaches/GMs/owners learn?
I was thinking about it yesterday. Dallas is certainly welcoming of troublemakers, but only the off the field variety. Beating your old lady is fine as long as you do your job. To be fair, the Patriots have signed some assholes and held them to the same standard. The Bengals sign troublemakers and the allow them to run amok on the field and become a detriment to the team. When Aqib Talib went off his nut Bill sat his silly ass in a very important game. The worst on the field problems Dallas runs into is Dez screaming and yelling at his own teammates, which I'm just fine with. Burfict and Pacman Jones do stupid shit and cost their team a playoff game and Lewis just says "it's who they are. What could I do about it?"
Like I pointed out when OBJr flipped out, your best player is no longer you bet player if he's fucking up your team. You gotta be willing to accept that.
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Was an awesome tailgate and game yesterday! Some of the guys got me good! I'm grilling my ass off when this cat shows up...... :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GTpfoeiAJA
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As a Vikings fan I agree with everything you said.
I didn't realize you were Minnesotan. :metal
But you are seeing what I'm seeing, right? Star Tribune has been saying that they need to stick with Keenum, but a few of the guys on KFAN have been talking about how they need to go with Bridgewater. I just don't see the point.
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Was an awesome tailgate and game yesterday! Some of the guys got me good! I'm grilling my ass off when this cat shows up...... :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GTpfoeiAJA
Only in L.A. :lol
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As a Vikings fan I agree with everything you said.
I didn't realize you were Minnesotan. :metal
But you are seeing what I'm seeing, right? Star Tribune has been saying that they need to stick with Keenum, but a few of the guys on KFAN have been talking about how they need to go with Bridgewater. I just don't see the point.
I was really hoping they would walk away with Washington game and Bridgewater would come in for a little bit to get a few reps in, but then Keenum had to make it interesting. I'm definitely a little torn on it. I don't think we can win a Super Bowl with Keenum unless the defense gets even better. But having not played in a game in almost 2 years, I just don't see throwing Bridgewater in there as a great option either. I'd rather stick with what's working but keep Keenum on a short leash. And try to get Bridgewater in a game somewhere if possible to get his first series out of the way.
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Jesse Pinkman's math sums up a potential Jerry Jones vs Roger Goodell war:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrLCU6cfOdc
:lol No such thing as zero douchebags. More like chemistry. Matter and anti matter. Total, complete, absolute annihilation. :rollin
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On other note, the teams that look really good right now, still have plenty of time to shit themselves. Don't jinx it by celebrating too soon. Then again, go right ahead. Most of them I can't stand anyway. :lol
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If you hate the Saints, is your reason(s) the bounty thing, years of being overrated cuz of their offense, their total wasting of half of Drew Brees' career by failing to to address the defensive woes, or something entirely different?
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If Kev doesn't get power rankings up in the next hour, I'm permanently locking all NFL-related threads.
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:lol
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We'll settle for locking all SOA vs DT polls.
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If Kev doesn't get power rankings up in the next hour, I'm permanently locking all NFL-related threads.
Spoken like a true Kap fan........ :lol
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If you hate the Saints, is your reason(s) the bounty thing, years of being overrated cuz of their offense, their total wasting of half of Drew Brees' career by failing to to address the defensive woes, or something entirely different?
I don't hate the Saints (or any team other than possibly the Baltimore Ratbirds), but I do remember having a great deal of disdain for their owner right after the hurricane. He was all to ready to shit on that city if memory serves me right.
As far as Baltimore goes, I empathize with their fan base because they wanted a team, and seem to have been faithful to them. I do live in North Central Ohio, and even though I'm not a Brown's fan, the way that deal went down was pure shit, and I hold it against that franchise.
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If Kev doesn't get power rankings up in the next hour, I'm permanently locking all NFL-related threads.
(https://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/392/026/21b.jpg)
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Post-Week 10 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. Philadelphia
2. New England
3. New Orleans
4. LA Rams
5. Pittsburgh
6. Seattle
7. Minnesota
8. Carolina
9. Jacksonville
10. Tennessee
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz
2. Tom Brady
3. LeVeon Bell
4. Todd Gurley
5. Alex Smith
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No issue with the Eagles at #1, but I'm glad to not see the Steelers ahead of the Pats.
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On other note, the teams that look really good right now, still have plenty of time to shit themselves. Don't jinx it by celebrating too soon. Then again, go right ahead. Most of them I can't stand anyway. :lol
Hi Philadelphia! Yet another in a long line of "WOW IS THIS GUY FOR REAL!??!?!?!?!" that hasn't won a thing. Yes, I'm looking at you, Cam, Dak, et al. I wish we'd at least have them win ONE playoff game before we anoint anyone.
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On other note, the teams that look really good right now, still have plenty of time to shit themselves. Don't jinx it by celebrating too soon. Then again, go right ahead. Most of them I can't stand anyway. :lol
Hi Philadelphia! Yet another in a long line of "WOW IS THIS GUY FOR REAL!??!?!?!?!" that hasn't won a thing. Yes, I'm looking at you, Cam, Dak, et al. I wish we'd at least have them win ONE playoff game before we anoint anyone.
Hell, Arron Rogers was already appointed the new Jesus a season before he even started a game.
In any case, there's no problem with pronouncing Dak and Wentz "for real." They're pretty clearly high caliber NFL starters. Peyton sucked ass in the playoffs his first 3 tries, and I think we were all pretty confident he qualified as real.
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NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz
2. Tom Brady
3. LeVeon Bell
4. Todd Gurley
5. Alex Smith
I'm curious how you evaluate MVP. I look at it from the standpoint of how much worse is the team if this player leaves. Seems to me that in a matchup between a Bradyless Pats and Wentzless Eagles, the Eagles win for a variety of reasons. They're still a decent enough team without him. Obviously BB factors into it, and he's shown that they can compete at a pretty good level without him, but they're still not as good a team without him as Phili would be without Wentz, I don't think.
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On other note, the teams that look really good right now, still have plenty of time to shit themselves. Don't jinx it by celebrating too soon. Then again, go right ahead. Most of them I can't stand anyway. :lol
Hi Philadelphia! Yet another in a long line of "WOW IS THIS GUY FOR REAL!??!?!?!?!" that hasn't won a thing. Yes, I'm looking at you, Cam, Dak, et al. I wish we'd at least have them win ONE playoff game before we anoint anyone.
Hell, Arron Rogers was already appointed the new Jesus a season before he even started a game.
In any case, there's no problem with pronouncing Dak and Wentz "for real." They're pretty clearly high caliber NFL starters. Peyton sucked ass in the playoffs his first 3 tries, and I think we were all pretty confident he qualified as real.
\
Of course you're right, at least nominally, but then there's the Bradfords and Palmers and Lucks of the world that come out - just like Dak and Cam - and, well, we're still waiting.
Look, no question, if I'm Philly, I'm happy with where I sit. Certainly as happy or happier than anyone else in that division, and maybe even the NFC. But the odds are still about even on the hype.
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NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz
2. Tom Brady
3. LeVeon Bell
4. Todd Gurley
5. Alex Smith
I'm curious how you evaluate MVP. I look at it from the standpoint of how much worse is the team if this player leaves. Seems to me that in a matchup between a Bradyless Pats and Wentzless Eagles, the Eagles win for a variety of reasons. They're still a decent enough team without him. Obviously BB factors into it, and he's shown that they can compete at a pretty good level without him, but they're still not as good a team without him as Phili would be without Wentz, I don't think.
I, more or less, spitball it every week, to be honest. Wentz and Brady have been the two best QBs this year so far, and I think it goes without saying that either team would suffer greatly without their starting QB (especially now that Jimmy G is gone from NE). Really, you could pick either guy right now and neither pick would be wrong.
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On other note, the teams that look really good right now, still have plenty of time to shit themselves. Don't jinx it by celebrating too soon. Then again, go right ahead. Most of them I can't stand anyway. :lol
Hi Philadelphia! Yet another in a long line of "WOW IS THIS GUY FOR REAL!??!?!?!?!" that hasn't won a thing. Yes, I'm looking at you, Cam, Dak, et al. I wish we'd at least have them win ONE playoff game before we anoint anyone.
Yeah, and once Wentz has a bad game (not if, but when) we'll see how he handles the fan criticism. The kinds of criticism that only Philly fans are capable of. :rollin
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Well, MVP in any sport is inherently subjective, and there is always plenty of room for disagreement. But on the large, your picks are pretty reasonable, Kev.
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If Kev doesn't get power rankings up in the next hour, I'm permanently locking all NFL-related threads.
(https://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/392/026/21b.jpg)
Is this one of the brothel owners in Deadwood?
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If you hate the Saints, is your reason(s) the bounty thing, years of being overrated cuz of their offense, their total wasting of half of Drew Brees' career by failing to to address the defensive woes, or something entirely different?
I don't hate the Saints, but on the other hand, it's difficult to respect a coach and the organization of a team that has done the things you mentioned. However, I do have a lot of respect for Brees. I think he's an elite QB.
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Yeah, and once Wentz has a bad game (not if, but when) we'll see how he handles the fan criticism. The kinds of criticism that only Philly fans are capable of. :rollin
He had his fair share of bad games last year and appeared to handle it just fine. To me, he is a QB who "gets it."
A few weeks ago, Cowherd showed the great contrast between Wentz and a guy like Cam Newton. After throwing a touchdown, the Eagles did a group TD celebration and they allowed the lineman to be show, while Went and the others all stood off to the side and cheered them on. Wentz had no problem not being the center of attention. On the same Sunday, Cam Newton scored a TD and when several players came over to celebrate with him, he shoed them away with arms so he could celebrate all by himself, because you know Cam, it's always all about him.
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Fuck Cam Newton.
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This skycam is good for the occasional play, but that's it. Making it the main camera angle would make me stop watching.
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This skycam is good for the occasional play, but that's it. Making it the main camera angle would make me stop watching.
There were some angles it worked great at and some that it failed hard at. If they'd approach it as one of many tools it'd be fine. I doubt they will though. It's new and shiny.
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This skycam is good for the occasional play, but that's it. Making it the main camera angle would make me stop watching.
There were some angles it worked great at and some that it failed hard at. If they'd approach it as one of many tools it'd be fine. I doubt they will though. It's new and shiny.
Agreed. In certain situations, specifically passing plays down the middle of the field, it was great. You could see the passing lanes and watch the receiver break to the open spot. In a lot of instances though, it wasn't great.
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This skycam is good for the occasional play, but that's it. Making it the main camera angle would make me stop watching.
There were some angles it worked great at and some that it failed hard at. If they'd approach it as one of many tools it'd be fine. I doubt they will though. It's new and shiny.
Agreed. In certain situations, specifically passing plays down the middle of the field, it was great. You could see the passing lanes and watch the receiver break to the open spot. In a lot of instances though, it wasn't great.
Yup. Looked like Madden, which I'm sure is the point and why a lot of people really liked it. What they didn't learn is that as soon as the guy catches the ball you need a different view to show the YAC. Like I said, they could figure out how to incorporate it for a much better product.
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Yup. Looked like Madden, which I'm sure is the point and why a lot of people really liked it. What they didn't learn is that as soon as the guy catches the ball you need a different view to show the YAC. Like I said, they could figure out how to incorporate it for a much better product.
Right, I wouldn't mind them utilizing it more often, just not 85% of the time like they did last night. I like your idea of switching to the regular side camera to show YAC, that's where it got tough last night - you'd see a guy catch a ball (great camera angle from the Madden-camera thing) and then you'd have no clue how far down field he was, where the marker for the first down was, where his running lanes were, etc...
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One thing I liked about the skycam was that you could really see how tight the windows are that NFL QBs have to throw into.
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That never ceases to amaze me. There are times, at certain views, that I don't even see a receiver, let alone an open one, and next thing you know, Ben just threw for 25 yards and a first down. I know they have routes and stuff, but still.
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Oh no! Seahawks secondary are gonna be hurting. Richard Sherman and Kam Chancellor out for the season. At least they still have their safety Earl Thomas but the Seahawks are in trouble with the L.O.B. depleted. Sigh!
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:lol :lol :lol Well done Buffalo on the QB change, well done. :rollin
Way to save a buck (allegedly) two years in a row.
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Pretty sure whoever the Bills head coach is (I don't even know who it is) should be fired tonight for that decision.
Love see the Chiefs totally collapse after that 5-0 start. 9 points against a Giants team that appears to have quit on their coach? My God. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
I have thought for years that Mike McCarthy was totally overrated and am feeling totally vindicated right now. We are seeing how mediocre the Packers team and coaching staff is when Aaron Rodgers is not there to make them all look good.
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Dallas is missing their stud RB and their best defensive player. If Philly is as legit as they appear to be, they need to win this game.
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Nice win by the Vikings today. It's good to see them beat a quality opponent easily at home.
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Nice win by the Vikings today. It's good to see them beat a quality opponent easily at home.
That fumble at the goal line was the turning point. Looking forward to Thursday
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Sluggish first half for the Eagles, but they completely demolished Dallas in the 2nd half. That was not pretty.
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Oh no! Seahawks secondary are gonna be hurting. Richard Sherman and Kam Chancellor out for the season. At least they still have their safety Earl Thomas but the Seahawks are in trouble with the L.O.B. depleted. Sigh!
True, but the Rams have the toughest schedule coming up, so the Hawks could still take the division.
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Pretty sure whoever the Bills head coach is (I don't even know who it is) should be fired tonight for that decision.
Love see the Chiefs totally collapse after that 5-0 start. 9 points against a Giants team that appears to have quit on their coach? My God. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
I have thought for years that Mike McCarthy was totally overrated and am feeling totally vindicated right now. We are seeing how mediocre the Packers team and coaching staff is when Aaron Rodgers is not there to make them all look good.
That last thought? That's exactly what I think of Andy Reid. I don't think the Chiefs are done yet, but they're not the glorious team that everyone thought after the first few games.
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Nice win by the Vikings today. It's good to see them beat a quality opponent easily at home.
That fumble at the goal line was the turning point. Looking forward to Thursday
Thursday is definitely game they need to be able to win if they want to make a run in the playoffs. They can obviously still win the division if they lose, but a SB caliber team needs to win that game.
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True, but the Rams have the toughest schedule coming up, so the Hawks could still take the division.
Hawks don't have a cake walk down the stretch either. Big game Monday for both teams.
5 Teams in the AFC with winning records.
Marshawn Lynch and his ballyhooed return from retirement have garnered 390 rushing yards, a 4-6 record, and forgetting what country he lives in. I shouldn't say this as a PNWer as you had the biggest run in Seahawks history, and the biggest non-run in Seahawks history, but stay classy brah.
And LOL at ESPN's article about Jerry Jones Jerry Jones has proved you can be one of the most powerful men in American sports and a bad franchise owner at the same time. Someone should actually award him a trophy for pulling that off.
What an asshat this guy is.
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It’s crazy right now how many of the good quarterbacks are in the NFC. The AFC has about 2 good QBs and the rest are dumpster fires. NFC has Wentz, Cousins, Stafford, Keenum, Brees, Ryan, Wilson, Goff all playing good to great not to mention Rodgers when he comes back. Well, Ryan hasn’t been great but I think he’ll play better going forward. But yeah the NFC has 8 of the top 10 QBs. Not sure about Newton and Prescott right now but if you count them it’s 10 of the top 12. Maybe Rivers sneaks in there.
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Wait, we are putting Case Keenum in the top 10, but not Alex Smith??
This doesn't change the fact, of course, that the NFC does have all of the best QBs, aside from Brady.
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Well, Keenum’s been playing better than Smith lately. You could dispute Goff on the same grounds I suppose. Not that anyone here cares, but by advanced metrics Roethlisberger’s been the 7th best QB in the league. He’s only actually had one BAD game.
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Okay, but if we are basing "best players" off of just very recent play, then Adam Thielen is better than Mike Evans and Julio Jones.
With QBs, I tend to take the "they need to do it for more than one season before putting them in the first or second tier" approach.
For me, the top tier is still just Rodgers and Brady.
The next tier is just Brees and Wilson, although I think Wentz is well on his way to breaking into that second tier.
I thought Carr was on the verge of breaking into the top 5, but he has really taken a few steps back this season.
Roethlisberger is still good, but clearly on the decline.
Stafford is always underrated, and I think Goff and Prescott are young guys on the rise.
Despite his play early this season, Alex Smith is still just a good QB (always in that 12-15 range).
Newton is too inconsistent to be a top 10 guy.
Ryan and Rivers are both good, but Rivers is on the decline, and Ryan needs everything around him working just right to be great.
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I think you need to put Brady ahead of Rogers when you talk about the greatest ever. When you can stay on the field and only miss one season that means a lot.
Also five rings to one.
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I know I shouldn't nibble on that bait :lol, but the rings argument is tired and old.
Brady has a MASSIVE advantage in what team and coach he plays for over Rodgers.
No Brady last year and the Patriots still went 3-1.
No Rodgers for a month this year and the Packers look like the 2nd worst team in the league (Cleveland, LOL).
There is something to be said for staying healthy, however. Notice how the guys who always stay in the pocket almost never miss games? Brady, Rivers, Eli, Ryan, etc.
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You don't win 5 Super Bowls without a great quarterback and a great coach. That's why Aaron Rodgers hasn't won more than one. but Brady at age 40 is doing things that no one has ever done. Since game 5 when he came back from the suspension he's thrown 50 touchdowns and four interceptions. That is God like. He has a lot to do with it.
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Brady has a MASSIVE advantage in what team and coach he plays for over Rodgers.
That argument is the one that's old and tired.
Oh, I know... what is Rogers played for the Patriots?
As good as Belichick is, and there's no one even close to him, Brady has made him look pretty good.
Rogers is awesome. But he's NOT Brady.
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Brady is playing better now than he had in years. But I think there is a difference between being "the greatest" and being "the most successful" QB or whatever.
Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikman were more successful QBs than Drew Brees and Brett Favre, but Brees and Favre were better QBs.
Brady is undoubtedly the most successful QB ever from a team success standpoint, but Aaron Rodgers, for the last 10 years, has played the position at a higher level than anyone else I've ever seen.
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Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikman were more successful QBs than Drew Brees and Brett Favre, but Brees and Favre were better QBs.
I just can't get on board with this.
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Kev I think you're forgetting that Brady has melted both of those together successful and won multiple
championships.
There is no doubt when you get to the level that Brady is you have to have a coach at your level. That's what makes Montana great but seriously both need each other to make the next level.
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Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikman were more successful QBs than Drew Brees and Brett Favre, but Brees and Favre were better QBs.
I just can't get on board with this.
Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikman were more successful QBs than Drew Brees and Brett Favre, but Brees and Favre were better QBs.
I just can't get on board with this.
Nah, he's exactly right here. He's also very wrong about Brady.
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Oh dear.
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Best game ever. The only way it could have been better is if LeBron James were standing on the sidelines, and Russell Wilson ran into him at full speed, causing both to suffer career-ending injuries and permanent paralysis.
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Best game ever. The only way it could have been better is if LeBron James were standing on the sidelines, and Russell Wilson ran into him at full speed, causing both to suffer career-ending injuries and permanent paralysis.
Dude, that's effed up! Russel Wilson is a class act.. That was a good game, I felt sorry for the Seahawks kicker. Otherwise would have went into OT.
On a side note, I don't like the Green Bay Packers, but I was still bummed to see Aaron Rodgers get hurt. I don't wish that on anybody..
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Dude, mellow out. I'm joking about the injury part, which I thought would be obvious. But that said, "Wilson" and "class act" do not belong in the same sentence. Ever.
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I figured you were joking, but I still had to call you out on the Wilson thing. What makes him not a class act? He is a nice humble guy that does a lot of great things for the community. Unless there is dirt on him that I don't know about, I highly doubt it.
Btw Bosk1, I think you are really cool outside of this thread. Leave it to the competitive nature of football to stir things up :lol. I'm a Seahawks fan and I tend to get a little defensive about RW.
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Dallas is missing their stud RB and their best defensive player. If Philly is as legit as they appear to be, they need to win this game.
I don't think it would've mattered if those guys were playing. The coaching staff in Dallas has absolutely no clue how to adjust to situations and be creative. Philly made adjustments at halftime and it worked.
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Dallas is missing their stud RB and their best defensive player. If Philly is as legit as they appear to be, they need to win this game.
I don't think it would've mattered if those guys were playing. The coaching staff in Dallas has absolutely no clue how to adjust to situations and be creative. Philly made adjustments at halftime and it worked.
With a more balanced O they probably don't need to make wholesale adjustments at the half. However, I agree that the fault lies with the coaching, and the team in general, more than the absence of EE. A decent club can play with what they have and not embarrass themselves. They also need to learn how to play without Sean Lee. You'd think by now they'd be used to it.
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Post-Week 11 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. Philadelphia - very well-rounded team
2. New England - defense is allowing 12 points per game the last six weeks
3. New Orleans - Drew Brees is still Drew Brees, when he needs to be
4. Pittsburgh - still not sure how good this team is, but hard to argue with 8-2
5. Minnesota - if Case Keenum keeps playing even just pretty good, this team will be a tough out
6. LA Rams - 30 points a game, yet only 10 against Seattle and then 7 against Minnesota
7. Carolina - could seriously contend if Cam Newton could ever learn how to be consistent again
8. Jacksonville - THE best defense in football this year
9. Atlanta - offense looks on track, finally
10. Detroit - Jim Caldwell has quietly down a good job up there in Detroit for years now
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz
2. Tom Brady
3. LeVeon Bell
4. Todd Gurley
5. Russell Wilson
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NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz
2. Tom Brady
3. LeVeon Bell
4. Todd Gurley
5. Russell Wilson
Interesting to include Bell in that list. In the eyes of the ever critical Steeler nation, he has largely had an underachieving season.
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NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz
2. Tom Brady
3. LeVeon Bell
4. Todd Gurley
5. Russell Wilson
Interesting to include Bell in that list. In the eyes of the ever critical Steeler nation, he has largely had an underachieving season.
He's had a few good games, but not MVP caliber. Ben is the player that makes that team go. If he's off then they stagnate.
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6. LA Rams - 30 points a game, yet only 10 against Seattle and then 7 against Minnesota
Not really fair to hold what happened 5 games ago against them but the 7 point outing in their most recent game is certainly applicable. I say this because the Saints only had 12 before a garbage time TD against the Vikings in week 1 so they could also be lumped in with the Vikings if we're holding all teams equally accountable regardless of how far back in the season a dubious mark on their resume occurred.
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz
2. Tom Brady
3. LeVeon Bell
4. Todd Gurley
5. Russell Wilson
If you're using the criteria of "MVP=Player whose team would be most fucked if they weren't playing" then I can kinda understand Alvin Kamara's continual absence from that list but if you're using the criteria of "MVP=best overall player" then I'm confused as hell as to how someone who's hit the ground running (unintentional pun but I'm too lazy to rephrase it) as quickly and consistently as he has keeps getting left completely off the list every single week.
Even if using the first criteria, the Saints would likely have a much less potent offense in his absence since the run is shockingly setting up the pass after 11+ years of that NEVER being the case and Mark Ingram has shown for 5 seasons that he can't carry the running attack solo.
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NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz
2. Tom Brady
3. LeVeon Bell
4. Todd Gurley
5. Russell Wilson
Interesting to include Bell in that list. In the eyes of the ever critical Steeler nation, he has largely had an underachieving season.
He's had a few good games, but not MVP caliber. Ben is the player that makes that team go. If he's off then they stagnate.
If we can assume then for the sake of argument that Roethlisberger is more valuable than Bell this year, then no Steeler makes my top 5. Roethlisberger hasn't played well enough to even be in the honorable mentions of my MVP list.
If you're using the criteria of "MVP=Player whose team would be most fucked if they weren't playing" then I can kinda understand Alvin Kamara's continual absence from that list but if you're using the criteria of "MVP=best overall player" then I'm confused as hell as to how someone who's hit the ground running (unintentional pun but I'm too lazy to rephrase it) as quickly and consistently as he has keeps getting left completely off the list every single week.
Even if using the first criteria, the Saints would likely have a much less potent offense in his absence since the run is shockingly setting up the pass after 11+ years of that NEVER being the case and Mark Ingram has shown for 5 seasons that he can't carry the running attack solo.
Kamara has been great and makes their offense better, yes, but he's not a legit MVP candidate.
He is for one of my fantasy teams, however. :hat
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I would go Brown, Ben, Bell in that order. Bell has already lost his explosiveness and is no longer a big receiving threat out of the backfield. If teams stack the box they can shut him down. Smith-Schuster is on the verge of being more valuable than Bell.
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Good night, Dallas.
So, this is one of the QB's that's surpassed Ben, eh?
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No kidding. They suck. I thought they were supposed to be good.
And while I've liked Romo a lot, please keep him off Cowboys games.
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LOL Dallas. Stick a fork in those fuckin’ turkeys.
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We're still gonna be stuck with seeing them in 5 prime time games next year anyway (https://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc55/black_floyd_2007/vomit.gif)
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It appears as if I, along with many others, was dead wrong about Dak Prescott. I thought he was really good, not just a product of having a stud RB, but the last three games have said otherwise. Having a subpar receiving corps and a coach who has no imagination sure doesn't help, but Prescott's plummet off the cliff since Zeke got suspended is stunning.
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I think he's trying to carry the entire load and he shouldn't have to. Dallas just isn't an organization that overcomes problems well. In a couple of years fickle Dallas fans will hate him, just like they did Romo, and he'll go somewhere else and do well.
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You are dead on that Dallas just isn't an organization that overcomes problems.
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In retrospect my comment was a probably a little harsher than I intended. The kid obviously has the skills to be a good QB, but he isn't there yet. Despite the league becoming more and more a passing league, the importance of a great RB continues to be very important to any team's success.
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I actually think a great RB is usually only important to the success of a few teams.
Look at the leadings backs in rushing yards on recent Super Bowl winners:
LeGarrette Blount
CJ Anderson
Jonas Gray
Marshawn Lynch
Ray Rice
Ahmad Bradshaw
Brandon Jackson
Pierre Thomas
Willie Parker
Brandon Jacobs
Joseph Addai
Not exactly a bunch of stud RBs there, is it? :)
While I don't think Prescott is as good as many of us thought, Dallas has got to upgrade their receiving corps. Dez is a shell of himself and is a terrible route runner; T. Williams and Butler are deep threats who both make a big play every five weeks seemingly; Witten is old; Beasley is a poor man's Amendola, who is a poor man's Edelman. They need to completely overhaul the WR position in the offseason, similar to how Philly did it this past offseason. Philly went from having a shitty WR corps to having a very good one this year.
Not that you even need a great WR corps to win it all, but Dallas still needs an upgrade.
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Without looking at any stats, I think some of those guys were really good backs for a short period of time, but over the long haul Lynch was probably the only one that was remarkable. If he had stayed retired we probably would view him in a much better light.
Some of them were probably good at the right time, then faded after those successful seasons.
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Pierre Thomas was extremely underrated. He was overshadowed by Reggie Bush then Darren Sproles while being every bit as significant of a play maker as either, if not more, for the entirety of the time he was with the Saints. In situations like this, I sometimes do research to prove my point with stats but I'm not sure whether that would convey what I'm trying to express anyway.
Basically, his amazing ability to work in space led to numerous TDs of 20+ yards that would've maxed out at a 10 yard gain for just about any other RB in the league. He literally may have been the finest screen executor in NFL history.
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I think the point is that the big names, such as Peterson, Bell & McCoy aren't on the list.
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Without looking at any stats, I think some of those guys were really good backs for a short period of time, but over the long haul Lynch was probably the only one that was remarkable. If he had stayed retired we probably would view him in a much better light.
Some of them were probably good at the right time, then faded after those successful seasons.
True. Lynch is the only one on that list who has a prayer at making the Hall, although someone can still be great for a short time and still not be a HOFer (Ray Rice was great for a 2-3 year stretch, for example).
Pierre Thomas was extremely underrated. He was overshadowed by Reggie Bush then Darren Sproles while being every bit as significant of a play maker as either, if not more, for the entirety of the time he was with the Saints. In situations like this, I sometimes do research to prove my point with stats but I'm not sure whether that would convey what I'm trying to express anyway.
Basically, his amazing ability to work in space led to numerous TDs of 20+ yards that would've maxed out at a 10 yard gain for just about any other RB in the league. He literally may have been the finest screen executor in NFL history.
I totally agree. I was a big fan of Pierre Thomas. He wasn't an every down back, but was always really good at being part of a committee, and could both run and catch it. Sean Payton is the master at getting RBs like that and getting the most out of them.
I think the point is that the big names, such as Peterson, Bell & McCoy aren't on the list.
Correct. If you look at the best RBs of the 21st century (meaning backs who did not come into the league until the 2000s), the only top one who has won a ring so far is Lynch. Tomlinson, Peterson, Bell, Portis, Gore, McCoy, Forte, MJD, D Murray, S Alexander, etc - nada rings.
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https://instanthub.net/2017/11/02/top-10-quarterbacks-of-all-time/
The list was going so well, then it jumped the shark.
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https://instanthub.net/2017/11/02/top-10-quarterbacks-of-all-time/
The list was going so well, then it jumped the shark.
Ah, the brother. :lol
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Was that list written by a 4-year old?
These QBs made touchdowns?
Brady has won four of seven Super Bowls. Um, what? :lol :lol :lol
Eli in the top 10? :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Troy Aikmen? :lol :lol
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Hard to believe what a dumpster fire the Chiefs offense has turned into. 5 minutes left in the 2nd Q and they still do not have a 1st down, as they trail 10-0 at home to Buffalo.
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It appears as if I, along with many others, was dead wrong about Dak Prescott. I thought he was really good, not just a product of having a stud RB, but the last three games have said otherwise. Having a subpar receiving corps and a coach who has no imagination sure doesn't help, but Prescott's plummet off the cliff since Zeke got suspended is stunning.
Dak is struggling no doubt, but we weren’t dead wrong. He doesn’t have the same team he had last year. The coaching staff has failed to adjust to changes in personnel. That includes the defense. The weight of a team can’t be put on just one or two guys.
I think he's trying to carry the entire load and he shouldn't have to. Dallas just isn't an organization that overcomes problems well. In a couple of years fickle Dallas fans will hate him, just like they did Romo, and he'll go somewhere else and do well.
I agree with the 1st part of your post, not the 2nd. It’s too early to tell how Dak will bounce back, but like you said, he can’t do it alone.
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Holy shit Kansas City.
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Holy shit Kansas City.
This is an implosion of epic proportions. They went from looking like the best team in the league to looking like one of the worst.
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I was truly worried about them this year.
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KC is dead. 5 weeks ago, who would’ve thought? Then again, an Andy Reid coached team is very unpredictable.
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Ugly ugly scene between the Broncos and Raiders.
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Talib is such a punk. I hate a punk like that being on my favorite team (although I realize that every team has at least one punk).
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Dolphins entire Defense is a bunch of punks. Holy shit!
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Yeah Talib is the exception to the Broncos, not the norm.
And how about Lynch escorting Talib towards the tunnel. Way to be a teammate to Crabtree.....
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Marshon Lattimore is now looking like the league MVP.
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Atlanta is the only NFL team to have had a 253 yard receiver and allow one as well (not in the same game, obviously; I'm referring to Plaxico Burress in 2002.)
Also, today was Julio Jones' third 250-yard game. No other player even has two.
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Ha Ha Clinton-Dix? :lol
Sounds like a Trump tweet!
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Right up there with Dick Trickle and Rusty Kuntz.
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3 dropped passes already. Come on guys :facepalm:
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"Snatching chains on the field, like what you accomplish? You hard? You tough? That make you tough?" Crabtree said last year.
Said the guy wearing a fucking necklace during an NFL game. To paraphrase a famous auntie, "You go to the NFL to play football, not for a fashion show."
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Ben 17 seconds to drive into FG range, no problem :metal.
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Which never happens if the refs call Hundley getting cracked in the helmet on 1st down, which everyone but the officials apparently saw.
Typical NFL.
Great catch by Brown at the end, regardless. He willed them to that win, despite the sloppy play, the turnovers and Tomlin not having his team ready to play.
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Great catch by Brown at the end, regardless. He willed them to that win, despite the sloppy play, the turnovers and Tomlin not having his team ready to play.
Great catch indeed. Ben had a better game than the stat sheet might indicate, but I agree Brown kicked it into another gear towards the end and was fantastic. The Steelers defense looked a mess though, did they even watch film on the Packers?
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The Steelers better be ready for the Pats in 3 weeks. It's obviously an important game.
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The Steelers better be ready for the Pats in 3 weeks. It's obviously an important game.
It is, but I honestly don't know what it will tell us.
If the Steelers win, I still think the Pats would beat them in the playoffs.
If the Pats win, I still think the Pats would beat the Steelers in the playoffs.
Either way, I'm still working with the "I'll believe it when I see it" Train of Thought when it comes to Tomlin beating Bill in the playoffs. That said, I am certainly looking forward to their regular season match up.
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To win in the playoffs Tomlin needs to get their bravado and believing they can, then he must up his coaching game.
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Yeah Talib is the exception to the Broncos, not the norm.
And how about Lynch escorting Talib towards the tunnel. Way to be a teammate to Crabtree.....
Crabtree has kind of earned whatever "respect" he gets (or doesn't) from his teammates.
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Right up there with Dick Trickle and Rusty Kuntz.
You forgot about the backup QB, Dick Shiner. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Shiner (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Shiner)
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Which never happens if the refs call Hundley getting cracked in the helmet on 1st down, which everyone but the officials apparently saw.
Typical NFL.
Great catch by Brown at the end, regardless. He willed them to that win, despite the sloppy play, the turnovers and Tomlin not having his team ready to play.
The refs said he was a runner at that point. GB only got flagged 3 times all game, there were plenty of calls that went against Pitt all game. That isn’t the reason they won. I guess the way it works is that the Steelers only pay off the refs in the 4th quarter.
Anyway, I don’t pay attention to the noise. Ben made a whole bunch of sick throws yesterday, including that dime to AB at the end.
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The refs said he was a runner at that point. GB only got flagged 3 times all game, there were plenty of calls that went against Pitt all game. That isn’t the reason they won. I guess the way it works is that the Steelers only pay off the refs in the 4th quarter.
Anyway, I don’t pay attention to the noise. Ben made a whole bunch of sick throws yesterday, including that dime to AB at the end.
I agree on all points. He was ruled to be a runner who put his head down.
Like I said before, Ben was better than the stat sheet shows. 2 picks, but one was a random deflection. Besides that one other pick, Ben was really, really good.
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I'm pretty sure helmet to helmet is a penalty regardless if the QB is considered a 'runner'.
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Oh, stepping up in the pocket to try to avoid the rush makes you a runner now? Interesting.
The Steelers defense looked a mess though, did they even watch film on the Packers?
I don't think it was a matter of watching film so much as it was a Tomlin-coached team thinking yet again that they can just show up and beat a bad team (which the Rodgers-less Packers are).
The Steelers better be ready for the Pats in 3 weeks. It's obviously an important game.
The Steelers are either gonna have to beat the Patriots twice (in week 15 to get home field and then again in Pitt in the playoffs) or beat them in NE (which is the likely scenario if NE wins week 15). I give them little chance to do either. At this point, it's just a matter of who is going to play NE in the Super Bowl.
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The thing is Kev they're talented team that could beat the Pats. I think the coaching staff holds them back.
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Sounds like Dallas. Only difference is, Pitt somehow finds a way to win. I think it's called playing with heart or something...
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For sure.
It's weird that the Pats match up well against the Steelers. The Ravens give them the fits.
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Sounds like Dallas. Only difference is, Pitt somehow finds a way to win. I think it's called playing with heart or something...
There's a lot to be said for that.
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Sounds like Dallas. Only difference is, Pitt somehow finds a way to win. I think it's called playing with heart or something...
There's a lot to be said for that.
Eh, not too sound overly cynical but "playing with heart" doesn't mean much at the end of the day. I think it's just something most have romanticized when it comes to sports. Talent wins games. Talented players play well. Talented teams win. I think occasionally, "heart" or some other intangible can definitely play a part or factor in somewhere, but I think those situations are the exceptions not the rule.
In regards to the Steelers, they are a talented team that's why they have been winning games. Dallas on the other hand is discovering that Dak just might not be Jesus dipped in Joe Montana and that maybe he struggles without Zek. That all seems about right to me.
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Playing with heart means everything. Just look at Cam Newton and imagine if he had the same amount of giveashit as Brady or Wilson.
Also, did anybody notice that after Suggs's strip-sack last night he stood there and posed for the cameras while everybody else was fighting for the ball? He was finished playing and preparing to celebrate before it devolved into a scrum and was still a live ball.
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Playing with heart means everything. Just look at Cam Newton and imagine if he had the same amount of giveashit as Brady or Wilson.
Are we combining "playing with heart" and "work ethic" into the same thing? I think work ethic is incredibly important for pro-athletes but from where I sit, that's a different thing.
Work ethic has a tangible attribute to it. Playing with heart is a completely intangible notion. I'm not saying it means nothing, I'm just saying I don't think it's a major factor in success and/or failure in sports like we sometimes make it out to be.
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Playing with heart means everything. Just look at Cam Newton and imagine if he had the same amount of giveashit as Brady or Wilson.
Are we combining "playing with heart" and "work ethic" into the same thing? I think work ethic is incredibly important for pro-athletes but from where I sit, that's a different thing.
I'm not sure I would say they are the same thing, but I would say they are very closely related. Without overthinking it too much, I would say "playing with heart" loosely equates to "work ethic + desire."
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There's some overlap, for sure. However, I'd say they're both subjective and hard to pin down. If I had to conjure up a definition for heart in this context it'd probably be something like "an overriding competitive spirit." That goes beyond work ethic. Emmitt Smith punishing the Giant's D-line with a dislocated shoulder is the perfect example. Cam Newton giving up is the opposite. They both seem to me to be manifestations of the same thing.
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Playing with heart means everything. Just look at Cam Newton and imagine if he had the same amount of giveashit as Brady or Wilson.
Also, did anybody notice that after Suggs's strip-sack last night he stood there and posed for the cameras while everybody else was fighting for the ball? He was finished playing and preparing to celebrate before it devolved into a scrum and was still a live ball.
Work ethic is a subset of playing with heart. The biggest criticism of Cam Newton is that he doesn't know what he needs to do to be better. He clearly works hard - you don't maintain that level of physicality without "working hard", but it's also working smart. Exploring every possible avenue to be better than you were the day before, not just the things that lead to better stats. Not just reading run defenses to make your runs go a little longer, but picking up blitzes better, picking up ticks from defensive players, running different cadences at the line of scrimmage so that your receivers get half a step on the secondary, and your line gets the jump on the defensive line.
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Pretty sure he's all heart when planning end zone celebrations and press conference attire.
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Pretty sure he's all heart when planning end zone celebrations and press conference attire.
:lol Too funny Tim.
There's some overlap, for sure. However, I'd say they're both subjective and hard to pin down. If I had to conjure up a definition for heart in this context it'd probably be something like "an overriding competitive spirit." That goes beyond work ethic. Emmitt Smith punishing the Giant's D-line with a dislocated shoulder is the perfect example. Cam Newton giving up is the opposite. They both seem to me to be manifestations of the same thing.
I remember that game like it was yesterday. Talk about heart and desire. Doesn't get any better. Now days, injured players are too much of a liability. They're not even allowed to play.
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Geno Smith to start for the G-Men this weekend. The rookie to get a look later this season as well. Eli handled the situation with absolute class. I'm thinking he ends up in Jacksonville next season.
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Not surprising, but the Giants problems go way beyond an aging QB. McAdoo also might be getting his hat handed to him soon.
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What a joke. I don't know how anyone could look Eli Manning in the eye and tell him he was being benched for Geno Smith. Eli is not what he once was, but quarterback is pretty far down that team's list of problems. McAdoo can't hang on to that job much longer.
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As a Giants fan I’m absolutely disgusted by this move. If the Giants had a young QB with lots of potential and wanted to see what they had with him, then I’d be fine with making that move, but benching Eli for Geno Smith is absurd. This guy is not the answer and Eli is not the problem. In any event as bad as they are I’d prefer for them to keep losing so they can get a top draft pick and putting Smith in at QB makes that likely. I just feel bad for Eli as he has been nothing but classy for the Giants and they treat him like this.
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Eli has this Patriots' fan's total respect.
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I owe Kev an apology. I'm going to use the fact that I haven't had a day off of work for a few weeks as my excuse. :biggrin:
I had questioned Bell being on his list as MVP contenders, but tonight after work I did some reading. He's having a much better season than I thought he was. He's leading the league in yards from scrimmage, and that's no small feat. While I still believe that the offense is driven by Ben, every QB needs weapons to be effective. He's lucky enough to have a couple of great ones.
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Where the Giants screwed up was not having Webb ready to play. If they'd benched Eli to give Webb a shot nobody would be upset. Benching him for Geno is a monumental dick move. I gather that Geno had been getting all the reps in practice, which would make sense, but at some point you need to look ahead and see this situation coming and designate Webb the number two. I can't help but think that at some point Eli must have really pissed John Mara off something terrible.
On the bright side, all of us that can't stand Eli are now completely on his side. This has been great PR for him. He'll be healthy and ready to roll when it comes time to jump ship next year.
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As a Giants fan I’m absolutely disgusted by this move. If the Giants had a young QB with lots of potential and wanted to see what they had with him, then I’d be fine with making that move, but benching Eli for Geno Smith is absurd. This guy is not the answer and Eli is not the problem. In any event as bad as they are I’d prefer for them to keep losing so they can get a top draft pick and putting Smith in at QB makes that likely. I just feel bad for Eli as he has been nothing but classy for the Giants and they treat him like this.
Don't worry; with Geno starting, the losing will continue. Amazing to me that he has lingered this long in the league.
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Im a Giants fan and I have little issue with the move. To me, it's the ownership sending the signal the team needs to rebuild and move on, which they need to do. To do that, you make tough decisions. I'd be fine with Eli sticking around another year personally, I think he's not the reason the Giants are terrible, and I'd bet he'd make a decent mentor to a top QB pick in the draft. But, this team needs a lot of work and I think that starts with a new coaching staff and I'm not sure Eli is going to survive a new coaching staff this late in his career. It's probably best to just clean house and starting now makes no difference than starting at the end of the season. I do feel bad for Eli, I've always been a supporter and fan of his, but it's a business and the Giants need to move on. Look around the division, they aren't going to compete with the younger teams until they make these hard moves.
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But is there any reason to bench Eli? The 49ers traded Joe Montana to the Chiefs when he was still a top QB but they were ready to start building the next generation around Steve Young. They didn't bench Montana in the meantime (I mean, they did intermittently for health/injury reasons, but it wasn't just an arbitrary benching to let Young get some play time). That's far different than benching a healthy, top QB for an obvious second stringer that is clearly NOT the future of the team. I get it that I don't really have standing to argue the propriety of this with a Giants fan. But I just don't see how this isn't insulting to him.
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The reason is to move on IMO, I do think it would be easier to swallow if the staff had a young QB to take the reigns or were more open about a bigger plan, but I think this is the plan, or it better be if they are benching him. To start new. Make the current coaching staff bench Eli and take the brunt of the pain now, then cut everyone and start new and not make the new staff take the hit on moving on from Eli. I think the GM, Reese, needs to go too. The Giants had some awesome years and some great drafts, I am very much thankful for that as a fan. I believe in the ownership though.
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Post-Week 12 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. Philadelphia
2. New England
3. Minnesota
4. New Orleans
5. Pittsburgh
6. LA Rams
7. Carolina
8. Atlanta
9. Seattle
10. LA Chargers
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz
2. Tom Brady
3. Russell Wilson
4. Antonio Brown
5. Alvin Kamara
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Kev, damn close stats between Brady and Wentz
https://m.herosports.com/nfl/player-comparison/carson-wentz-vs-tom-brady
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Kev, damn close stats between Brady and Wentz
https://m.herosports.com/nfl/player-comparison/carson-wentz-vs-tom-brady
Not really. That .8 in YPA is pretty large, as are the two INTs relative to their attempts. However, I don't look at MVP as who's the best QB. In this case I think Brady is more important to his team than Wentz is to his. Brady gets unfairly penalized there because of his coach. Yet I think Phil would be the better team if they both lost their QBs.
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Oh I certainly do to El Barto. But it's great to see a second-year QB at this level. He's not that far off.
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10 weeks ago I was a Ravens fan. When I first jumped ship to Philly, people didn't seem to think much of it, other than the shock of a diehard Ravens fan bailing on the team. Eagles werw 2-1. Never in my wildest dreams did I think they would go on this long of a streak, so to outsiders, my decision could look like an on the field decision. And tonight, with a Dallas loss, the Eagles would clinch their division in November. Unreal.
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Pretty sure none of that would've happened had you not jumped on the wagon! ;D
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But is there any reason to bench Eli? The 49ers traded Joe Montana to the Chiefs when he was still a top QB but they were ready to start building the next generation around Steve Young. They didn't bench Montana in the meantime (I mean, they did intermittently for health/injury reasons, but it wasn't just an arbitrary benching to let Young get some play time). That's far different than benching a healthy, top QB for an obvious second stringer that is clearly NOT the future of the team. I get it that I don't really have standing to argue the propriety of this with a Giants fan. But I just don't see how this isn't insulting to him.
It’s definitely insulting to him. If they were to play Webb to see whether he has potential or they should draft a QB next year, you could at least justify the reasoning behind it, but to bench him for Geno Smith and say that gives the team the best chance to win is a huge insult to Eli. I can’t imagine how any Giants fan can argue that.
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Here's some perspective...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ9lFXw63BA
NSFW!
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Saturday morning I'm leaving for Buffalo. Can't wait!
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Saturday morning I'm leaving for Buffalo. Can't wait!
Cool. We're actually going up to Portland on Saturday to see the Maine Red Claws.
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Tim, in check out Bissell Brothers brewery in Lewiston. They will not disappoint.
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But is there any reason to bench Eli? The 49ers traded Joe Montana to the Chiefs when he was still a top QB but they were ready to start building the next generation around Steve Young. They didn't bench Montana in the meantime (I mean, they did intermittently for health/injury reasons, but it wasn't just an arbitrary benching to let Young get some play time). That's far different than benching a healthy, top QB for an obvious second stringer that is clearly NOT the future of the team. I get it that I don't really have standing to argue the propriety of this with a Giants fan. But I just don't see how this isn't insulting to him.
It’s definitely insulting to him. If they were to play Webb to see whether he has potential or they should draft a QB next year, you could at least justify the reasoning behind it, but to bench him for Geno Smith and say that gives the team the best chance to win is a huge insult to Eli. I can’t imagine how any Giants fan can argue that.
In my opinion? King gives the Gints a better chance to win than Geno Smith.
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10 weeks ago I was a Ravens fan. When I first jumped ship to Philly, people didn't seem to think much of it, other than the shock of a diehard Ravens fan bailing on the team. Eagles werw 2-1. Never in my wildest dreams did I think they would go on this long of a streak, so to outsiders, my decision could look like an on the field decision. And tonight, with a Dallas loss, the Eagles would clinch their division in November. Unreal.
You're right. Until they win a SB, it will continue to remain unreal.
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But is there any reason to bench Eli? The 49ers traded Joe Montana to the Chiefs when he was still a top QB but they were ready to start building the next generation around Steve Young. They didn't bench Montana in the meantime (I mean, they did intermittently for health/injury reasons, but it wasn't just an arbitrary benching to let Young get some play time). That's far different than benching a healthy, top QB for an obvious second stringer that is clearly NOT the future of the team. I get it that I don't really have standing to argue the propriety of this with a Giants fan. But I just don't see how this isn't insulting to him.
It’s definitely insulting to him. If they were to play Webb to see whether he has potential or they should draft a QB next year, you could at least justify the reasoning behind it, but to bench him for Geno Smith and say that gives the team the best chance to win is a huge insult to Eli. I can’t imagine how any Giants fan can argue that.
In my opinion? King gives the Gints a better chance to win than Geno Smith.
Of course the current team/ownership is going to say this is about winning now but everyone knows Geno does not give the Giants a better chance to win these remaining games and no one really wants the Giants to win these games. Just get the best draft pick possible at this point, the team quit on the coach weeks ago. Leave all the distractions and negativity out there in this horrendous season and start fresh next year without the distractions and with money to spend. That of course is assuming McAdoo is gone after the season and the Giants find a way to deal with Eli's contract.
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We're onto Buffalo.
430am. In my car heading to Buffalo for the Pats/Buffalo game
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Going to the Ravens-Lions tomorrow. The last time Detroit was here was '09, following their winless season. They were dreadful then as well. I saw many good sense of humor fans wearing official jerseys with the #16 on them, and the last name 'Owen'. :D
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Saw that a Clevelander applied for a permit to have a parade should the Browns achieve perfect with an 0-16 record. I admire this guy. I would go to that parade. I just hope the team doesn't much it up by actually winning a game.
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Patriots weren’t stopping the run, no reason to pass on first down there. Horrible pick. Typical stupidity from their AFC East “competition”.
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Hello from Buffalo.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x700q90/924/Qrl2KB.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/poQrl2KBj)
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Hello from Buffalo.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x700q90/924/Qrl2KB.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/poQrl2KBj)
:metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
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You didn't throw that dildo on the field did ya?
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Big win by the Jets and a huge meltdown by the Chiefs defense in the fourth quarter (or really that one drive). Marcus Peters wins the NFL Asshole of the Week award for his antics, and if I were in charge in Kansas City, I would release him on the flight home for his antics, regardless of how good he is. The Jets keep their slim playoff hopes alive, and Kansas City’s freefall continues.
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You didn't throw that dildo on the field did ya?
Mine was strapped on. :lol
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It is hard to laugh at any other team right now, considering what a joke the Broncos are right now, but I am enjoying this Chiefs collapse quite a bit.
Broncos need to lose out to to get a top 3 pick and land one of those QBs coming out (and pray Elway doesn't screw it up).
Gronk should get a game. That is one of the worst cheap shots of the season.
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Gronk should get a game. That is one of the worst cheap shots of the season.
Suspended a game? I don't know, but he absolutely should've been ejected at that point.
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He'll get fined. That's it. He was a dummy. He apologized. Frustrated for all the grabbing. Dumb move on his part.
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Let's be serious for a minute.
The NFL has talked big the last few years about how they care about concussions now.
Today had a player getting concussed when a play was over and a player on the other team dove at his head with clear malicious intent when he was still on the ground. You don't get any more cheap than that, frustration or not.
It should be at least one game.
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Agreed. What Gronk did was much more dangerous than what Talib and Crabtree pulled last week.
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He apologized though, so that makes it ok :rollin To me it's not even debatable, he should be suspended for 1 game at the very least. You can't let him get away with that garbage.
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Apology doesn't mean it's okay dude. He just knows that he was a f****** moron.
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I don't think Gronk is a bad guy by any means. He seems like a good guy and is obviously a hell of a player. The league needs to suspend him for at least 1 game to set an example though, that kind of crap should not be tolerated in the slightest.
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The league has already set its example.
(https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/suh.jpg?quality=100&w=650https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/suh.jpg?quality=100&w=650)
In a normal world I'd be agreeing with you guys. The NFL hardly qualifies, though, and if he gets suspended after all of the other bullshit we've seen this year it'll be yet another example of how ridiculous things have gotten. Hell, you can check a ref with your forearm and not get suspended in this league.
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So if he's suspended it'll be for two reasons.
1. It was a head shot
2. It was a white guy on a black guy*
* So here's why I say this. The NFL has been meeting with black players over social issues, and I do not think they'll risk the tweetstorm of letting a white guy off on nailing a black guy. I just think the NFL will be so PR conscious over this and its (racial) appearance.
Personally, I'm on the fence as far as the suspension, but I think it's ridiculous that he was not ejected.
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Attacking a guy on the ground from behind in the head is worse than grabbing a guy by the throat and giving a half-shove.
We'll see how much the league really cares about concussions with how they punish Gronk. He should get multiple games to show that they are serious.
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Attacking a guy on the ground from behind in the head is worse than grabbing a guy by the throat and giving a half-shove.
We'll see how much the league really cares about concussions with how they punish Gronk. He should get multiple games to show that they are serious.
I think your bias is showing.
That probably does deserve a game, but with the way the league works now it would be bullshit if it happened.
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Oh, my bias is showing, but the bias here of Patriots fans, whom you did not feel the need to call out, is not? Okay.
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Who me? Kev, he let his emotions get in the way. His apology shows that he's human. Doesn't mean he's wrong. He's going to get it's fine he's not getting suspended.
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Kev, I feel he should've been ejected immediately and definitely fined. I'm on the fence on him being suspended, but would not complain or call it a travesty if he was.
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Joe, you don't think a player attacking another player on the ground in the head from behind and giving him a concussion is going to get a suspension?
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(puts out the call)
(responds)
Damn, the Homie Pats Fan Call is just as strong as the Power Windows Call!
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Attacking a guy on the ground from behind in the head is worse than grabbing a guy by the throat and giving a half-shove.
We'll see how much the league really cares about concussions with how they punish Gronk. He should get multiple games to show that they are serious.
I think your bias is showing.
That probably does deserve a game, but with the way the league works now it would be bullshit if it happened.
How is his bias showing? His take on this would most likely be exactly the same if Gronk were a Bronco. He was unbiased in his take on the Talib/Crabtree mess last week.
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I'll reiterate that I think he's deserving. I just also think it'd be unbelievable hypocrisy given what doesn't warrant one nowadays. Hell, you're allowed to bump referees in this league now, FFS.
I got the impression that his bell was rung when he went down, not when gronk landed on him.
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Also, considering how we're reminded every single time the Patriots are the beneficiaries of bad calls by the refs, how many PIs and holds happened on that play that didn't get called? Three? Four? That happens to Buffalo this game and we all know it'd be pointed out.
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Joe, you don't think a player attacking another player on the ground in the head from behind and giving him a concussion is going to get a suspension?
Let's not get soft Kev. This s*** happened forever. Now all of a sudden concussions are serious business. Was he wrong one hundred percent yes. Will he be fined? Yes. Will he get suspended? Probably not. Will hw get suspended for a game? I'm not sure. . NFL so uneven that I have no idea what's right or wrong when it comes to their penalties.
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How is his bias showing? His take on this would most likely be exactly the same if Gronk were a Bronco. He was unbiased in his take on the Talib/Crabtree mess last week.
Thank you. At least someone is paying attention. :biggrin:
Also, considering how we're reminded every single time the Patriots are the beneficiaries of bad calls by the refs, how many PIs and holds happened on that play that didn't get called? Three? Four? That happens to Buffalo this game and we all know it'd be pointed out.
Irrelevant.
Let's not get soft Kev. This s*** happened forever. Now all of a sudden concussions are serious business. Was he wrong one hundred percent yes. Will hw be fined? Yes. Will he get suspended? Probably not. Wil hw get suspended for game? I'm not sure. . NFL so uneven that I have no idea what's right or wrong when it comes to their penalties.
That is why it should be a multiple-game suspension. Many of us believe the NFL is giving lip service about their sudden care about concussions, and if they give Gronk a slap on the wrist (which is what a fine is), that is showing that it really is just lip service. Trust me, the many players and families of players greatly affected by concussions due to hits in the NFL will be playing close attention to this situation. The NFL has to come down, and come down hard.
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Also, considering how we're reminded every single time the Patriots are the beneficiaries of bad calls by the refs, how many PIs and holds happened on that play that didn't get called? Three? Four? That happens to Buffalo this game and we all know it'd be pointed out.
Irrelevant.
Yeah, no doubt. :lol
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Let's not get carried away Kev. Gronk's emotions got in the way and he did something stupid but it shouldn't be multiple games. First-time offense should not be multiple suspension. I find yes maybe one game maybe? but not multiple let's not get carried away.
This is the end result when people get mugged and then then they don't call anything and players take things into your own hands. NFL has to do a better job officiating not to let things get to this position. Players are dumb and you and I know it. The NFL needs to do a better job officiating not to let it get to this point.
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The league has already set its example.
*snip*
In a normal world I'd be agreeing with you guys. The NFL hardly qualifies, though, and if he gets suspended after all of the other bullshit we've seen this year it'll be yet another example of how ridiculous things have gotten. Hell, you can check a ref with your forearm and not get suspended in this league.
That's a really good point. I was equally as disgusted when I saw Suh grab Mallet's throat earlier this year. Gronk deserves a suspension for what he did, but I can't expect this joke of a league to actually do it. He'll just get a slap on the wrist fine so the league can continue to pretend like they care about player safety.
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Btw, Kev. If he's suspended for a week than Pats fans should not be upset. He needs to control hid emotions in check.
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I guess I'm really an Eagles fan. My stomach is in knots after that drive, 4th down conversion and Wentz fumble
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That was an incredible drive by Wentz. What a gamer.
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Even if it is in a losing effort, that throw by Wentz was the play of the year. Holy smokes.
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:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
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Seahawks baby woooo!!! :metal
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Losses suck, but there was a lot of good to take out of this one. So no 15-1. No biggie, still plenty to be excited for.
Bring on the Rams!
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Surprised the Hawks manned up on this one, even considering they usually play well on Sunday nights. Most local radio honks didn't have the Hawks winning.
@ JAX, LAR, @ DAL still on the schedule, not easy going down the home stretch.
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Tonight's game gives me hope for the Rams and Raiders v. Eagles. Eagles had pretty easy opponents up to now.
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Joe, you don't think a player attacking another player on the ground in the head from behind and giving him a concussion is going to get a suspension?
Let's not get soft Kev. This s*** happened forever. Now all of a sudden concussions are serious business. Was he wrong one hundred percent yes. Will he be fined? Yes. Will he get suspended? Probably not. Will hw get suspended for a game? I'm not sure. . NFL so uneven that I have no idea what's right or wrong when it comes to their penalties.
Funny how Gronk will likely get a slap on the wrist while Zeke is suspended 6 games for something there was no proof of and is evidently innocent. Gronk was caught on hd camera for intentionally hurting someone and being a douche..
On a better note, WAY TO GO SEAHAWKS!!!
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You forgetting Brady's suspension? :lol
Gronk will get a game.
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I saw Gronk's "apology" this morning. What a joke. He gave the token, emotionless apology and then ranted about his frustration about the alleged non-calls. Sounded like a guy giving reasons why he slapped his wife. "What else was I supposed to do?" (Gronk actually said that)
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He may have cost him the Pittsburgh game for all the marbles. Dumb, dumb move.
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Gronk being suspended would be amazing for my fantasy team.
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Alleged. :lol
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Not at all supporting what Gronk did (I'll be honest, though; I didn't see it personally), but my question is, why start now? I suppose the journey of 1,000 miles starts with one step, but in keeping with what most of the NFL does, it just seems so arbitrary. It's not at all the same as "Zeke", because that's all part of the NFL's hamfisted and plodding attempt to placate women and address women's issues.
Interesting that this has completely overshadowed what to me is the real story in Foxboro; Brady yelling "FUCK YOU" at McDaniels on the sideline as he's being restrained. Not that I think it's going to impact anything on the field, but it was more interesting than the latest in a long line of meat head football players acting overly aggressive at inappropriate times (and us wondering why that happens).
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OH, and I might have missed it, but where's the thread about Andy Reid being one of the best coaches in football. I seem to remember a LOT of talk about that about six, seven weeks ago, but now??? It is as inevitable as a shitheel tweet from Trump; a Reid defense is soft when they need to be strong, because he brought in a guy to SPECIFICALLY fill a void, and made the team markedly worse, and then when he needs the offense - led by a very good, but not great QB - to step up, he's got no timeouts and no idea how to manage a game clock and so falls short. Yesterday's game was text book Andy Reid, and that's what you get as an outcome. All the 5-1 starts in the world don't matter; it's how you finish.
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Not at all supporting what Gronk did (I'll be honest, though; I didn't see it personally), but my question is, why start now? I suppose the journey of 1,000 miles starts with one step, but in keeping with what most of the NFL does, it just seems so arbitrary. It's not at all the same as "Zeke", because that's all part of the NFL's hamfisted and plodding attempt to placate women and address women's issues.
Interesting that this has completely overshadowed what to me is the real story in Foxboro; Brady yelling "FUCK YOU" at McDaniels on the sideline as he's being restrained. Not that I think it's going to impact anything on the field, but it was more interesting than the latest in a long line of meat head football players acting overly aggressive at inappropriate times (and us wondering why that happens).
Nah, I'd consider that healthy. They've worked together for ages and they're pretty tight. Coworkers yell at each other all the time, and they're no exception. Moreover, it happened after Brady took a second too long causing him to miss a throw. Brady knew what had happened and was pissed off at himself. He didn't want/need McDaniels harping on it. Some people are hard enough on themselves and don't need others throwing shit in their face. There was no anger towards JMD, really. Just a STFU.
The best thing was somewhere later in that game. Buffalo player walked towards 2 refs, never got closer than about 10 yards, made an angry but rather benign gesture and yelled something at them. The refs looked at each other and both threw flags. I'm really curious what you can't yell at a ref that'll result in 15 yards. I thought mouthing off was acceptable.
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Tonight's game gives me hope for the Rams and Raiders v. Eagles. Eagles had pretty easy opponents up to now.
Rams are good enough. Don't know about the Raiders. You're correct. 2 out of the Eagles 10 wins are against teams with winning records. They hit a buzz saw last night.
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Maybe I'm jaded, but I see the Eagles in the same light as I see the Panthers, the Cowboys and the Chiefs. It's why I harp on the "winning" so much. There are too many examples of a coach/QB/team making one or even two passes through the league and coming back down to earth. Let's see some sustained performance, and some hardware, before we get too crazy with the superlatives.
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McAdoo, Reese, GONE.
I have to be honest; if they now go back to Eli, and he is the guy, I'd be pissed if I was him, having the streak end over petty administrative bullshit as opposed to his playing and/or his health.
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They showed the replay of the Gronk scene this morning, man that was a cheap shot totally uncalled for! Gronk needs to be held accountable for this, completely inexcusable. His apology seemed more of a formality and he was trying to justify his behavior. I actually liked him up to this point, but I lost a lot of respect for him after that. I would go as far as saying he should be suspended for the rest of the season (including the playoffs) and a hefty fine... He intentionally hurt someone who had their back turned face down ON THE GROUND!
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McAdoo, Reese, GONE.
I have to be honest; if they now go back to Eli, and he is the guy, I'd be pissed if I was him, having the streak end over petty administrative bullshit as opposed to his playing and/or his health.
I very much appreciate and loved what Reese did to this team when he first came on. His draft picks played a huge role in winning that first Superbowl. I am forever grateful for his work in creating those teams that while weren't the best, managed to do what only the best can do. In the last 6 years or so, the Giant's drafts have been poor and this offseason they didn't even attempt to fix their biggest problem (Oline). He hired a first year head coach who couldn't get the job done as well. For that, I say good riddance as this was the worst year I can recall in a long time where the team flat out quit. I trust the ownership in finding a new front office and coaching staff to move this team in the right direction in the draft and moving on from Eli, another person I truly appreciate and loved watching for many years. But time has come. Looking forward to watching a younger team next year start to build into something.
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They showed the replay of the Gronk scene this morning, man that was a cheap shot totally uncalled for! Gronk needs to be held accountable for this, completely inexcusable. His apology seemed more of a formality and he was trying to justify his behavior. I actually liked him up to this point, but I lost a lot of respect for him after that. I would go as far as saying he should be suspended for the rest of the season (including the playoffs) and a hefty fine... He intentionally hurt someone who had their back turned face down ON THE GROUND!
A lot of NE fans don’t think he should be suspended. I wonder what their reaction would be if Brady had been on the receiving end?
Also, the way to end the Shaq treatment on Gronk is to call OPI on him every single time he pushes off. When that happens, defenders will no longer need to hold him to balance out the contact.
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A lot of NE fans don’t think he should be suspended. I wonder what their reaction would be if Brady had been on the receiving end?
Also, the way to end the Shaq treatment on Gronk is to call OPI on him every single time he pushes off. When that happens, defenders will no longer need to hold him to balance out the contact.
This NE fan has no issue with a game. None. I said yesterday that he should've been ejected.
And they do call OPI on Gronk constantly. In fact they called a phantom OPI yesterday.
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He should get a game no doubt.
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A lot of NE fans don’t think he should be suspended. I wonder what their reaction would be if Brady had been on the receiving end?
Also, the way to end the Shaq treatment on Gronk is to call OPI on him every single time he pushes off. When that happens, defenders will no longer need to hold him to balance out the contact.
This NE fan has no issue with a game. None. I said yesterday that he should've been ejected.
And they do call OPI on Gronk constantly. In fact they called a phantom OPI yesterday.
And a hold. Whereas the guy he fell on interfered and held on the same play and didn't get called. Pretty sure Amendola was getting hassle put on him at midfield during that play, as well. Doesn't excuse what happened afterward by any means, but this notion that Gronk does whatever he wants and doesn't get called is fucking stupid.
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Tonight's game gives me hope for the Rams and Raiders v. Eagles. Eagles had pretty easy opponents up to now.
Rams are good enough. Don't know about the Raiders. You're correct. 2 out of the Eagles 10 wins are against teams with winning records. They hit a buzz saw last night.
And 3 more teams would have winning record if not for losses against Philly. So 5 out of 10 wins are definitely quality wins. On top of that, they beat the Giants before they self-destructed, so that can be considered a quality win as well.
Most overrated stat in sports.
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And Gronk got his suspension.
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Gronk should have known better. Should have just stood on the dude's leg. That's already been sanctioned.
I won't complain because he really did deserve it. Just goes to show, though, what a joke the league is in terms of discipline and officiating.
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How long is his suspension?
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Nevermind, it's for one week. Whoopie ding, he deserves much worse than that imo..
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How long is his suspension?
One game. Which he obviously is appealing.
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Maybe I'm jaded, but I see the Eagles in the same light as I see the Panthers, the Cowboys and the Chiefs. It's why I harp on the "winning" so much. There are too many examples of a coach/QB/team making one or even two passes through the league and coming back down to earth. Let's see some sustained performance, and some hardware, before we get too crazy with the superlatives.
I agree. The only difference is, Dallas already has a history of hardware but what have they done for us lately? Nothing. Look at Dallas last year. Longest winning streak in the league (11 games), get a first round buy in the playoffs and then one and done.
Tonight's game gives me hope for the Rams and Raiders v. Eagles. Eagles had pretty easy opponents up to now.
Rams are good enough. Don't know about the Raiders. You're correct. 2 out of the Eagles 10 wins are against teams with winning records. They hit a buzz saw last night.
And 3 more teams would have winning record if not for losses against Philly. So 5 out of 10 wins are definitely quality wins. On top of that, they beat the Giants before they self-destructed, so that can be considered a quality win as well.
Most overrated stat in sports.
Not sure what you mean about beating the Giants. They've been atrocious all year.
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How long is his suspension?
Not long enough.
OH, and I might have missed it, but where's the thread about Andy Reid being one of the best coaches in football. I seem to remember a LOT of talk about that about six, seven weeks ago, but now??? It is as inevitable as a shitheel tweet from Trump; a Reid defense is soft when they need to be strong, because he brought in a guy to SPECIFICALLY fill a void, and made the team markedly worse, and then when he needs the offense - led by a very good, but not great QB - to step up, he's got no timeouts and no idea how to manage a game clock and so falls short. Yesterday's game was text book Andy Reid, and that's what you get as an outcome. All the 5-1 starts in the world don't matter; it's how you finish.
Reid has been a head coach for now 300 games and won 60% of them. The Chiefs current free fall is inexplicable, but it doesn't take away from what a great coach Reid has been for nearly 20 years.
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Gotta love Benglas/Steelers games. Maybe Burfict will stab somebody and draw a $1k fine.
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Shazier with a brutal injury. Hope he is okay.
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I like Gronk and his emotions got the best of him, but I definitely agree with the suspension.
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Shazier with a brutal injury. Hope he is okay.
Thanks. I feel bad for him, but he wouldn’t stop leading with his head. Accident waiting to happen. 😔
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Shazier with a brutal injury. Hope he is okay.
Thanks. I feel bad for him, but he wouldn’t stop leading with his head. Accident waiting to happen. 😔
???
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Burfict's probably just faking his concussion.
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Post-Week 13 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. New England - should have the easiest road to the Super Bowl ever
2. Minnesota - we are seeing how good this team is when they get good QB play
3. Philadelphia - a loss like that was inevitable
4. New Orleans - that 1-2 punch at RB is lethal
5. LA Rams - stunning turnaround, but can they win at Seattle to lock up the division?
6. Pittsburgh - they keep eking by, but having to struggle to beat mediocre teams week after week shows that they aren't as good as their record
7. Seattle - R. Wilson is THE scariest player in the league right now
8. Carolina - imagine if they had a consistent QB
9. Jacksonville - imagine if they had a good QB
10. LA Chargers - poised to snag the AFC West
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Russell Wilson - take him away from the Seahawks and they become the Broncos (but with better coaching)
2. Tom Brady - had a rare game with more INTs than TDs
3. Carson Wentz - made the most ridiculous throw of the year, but still struggled too much
4. Antonio Brown - this guy is just too damn good
5. Alvin Kamara - easily the rookie of the year and is just an unbelievable weapon
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Nice to see you finally giving Kamara his due.
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Shazier with a brutal injury. Hope he is okay.
:o
Thanks. I feel bad for him, but he wouldn’t stop leading with his head. Accident waiting to happen. 😔
???
I just appreciated his sentiments. If you think everyone is as gracious as Kev regarding opposing players, you have obviously never visited a Bengals message board. Truly a disgusting and hate-filled fan base.
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Nice to see you finally giving Kamara his due.
Also, kudos recognizing Wilson is the clear MVP. He has MUCH less support around him than Brady does.
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You do know how many injuries the Patriots have had on offense this year don't you?
3 offensive starting linemen, Julian Endelman, Chris Hogan. Ect... I could go on.
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Shazier with a brutal injury. Hope he is okay.
Yeah that looked bad...
Burfict's probably just faking his concussion.
Clearly.
Honestly, I never want to see a player get hurt, but seeing that guy get lite up was somewhat satisfying. I hope he's okay, I'm certainly not wishing injury upon him but some part of me thinks he deserved to get laid out like that.
Also, I hope AB is going to be okay, that head shot he took in the end zone (and somehow still caught the ball?!?) was rough. Ugly, ugly game.
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And yet Brady still has way more help around him than Wilson. The Patriots are 9th in the NFL in rushing. The Seahawks are 21st (and would be dead last if not for Wilson having over 1/3 of their rushing yards).
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Honestly, I never want to see a player get hurt, but seeing that guy get lite up was somewhat satisfying. I hope he's okay, I'm certainly not wishing injury upon him but some part of me thinks he deserved to get laid out like that.
That was my thought as well. My reaction when the hit happened was, "That was brutal, but the guy deserved it."
That said, between Smith-Schuster's taunting and Brown yelling karma in the locker room after the game, the Steelers cannot take the moral high ground when it comes to this ugliness between them and the Bengals. Both teams should be embarrassed.
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And yet Brady still has way more help around him than Wilson. The Patriots are 9th in the NFL in rushing. The Seahawks are 21st (and would be dead last if not for Wilson having over 1/3 of their rushing yards).
Both can play that game.
https://herosports.com/nfl/player-comparison/russell-wilson-vs-tom-brady
It does make for good debate. Either way, I wouldn't be disappointed if Wilson won. It just tickles me that Brady has more to work. I think the coaches just do a better job coaching up players here compared to other teams.
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That was my thought as well. My reaction when the hit happened was, "That was brutal, but the guy deserved it."
That said, between Smith-Schuster's taunting and Brown yelling karma in the locker room after the game, the Steelers cannot take the moral high ground when it comes to this ugliness between them and the Bengals. Both teams should be embarrassed.
Oh no doubt, that was an ugly game from both teams.
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For sure, Joe. And that is no slight on Pete Carroll, who is in that 2nd tier of NFL coaches (Belichick IS the 1st tier), but it's a whole other level with Belichick and his staff.
When I watch the Seahawks offense, it's like they have no identity. It is basically Wilson playing street ball and making plays left and right. And I have been on this bandwagon since 2012. He wowed me as a rookie and continues to wow me. Maybe, perhaps, he will find get his due from the small group of nitwits out there who think he was merely along for the ride when they won the Super Bowl years ago, instead of being an important cog.
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Remember a year ago when we heard all the rumors of the defense complaining out Russell? Now he is carrying them.
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Pete Carroll is a tier 1.b coach. Belichick is the top tier, but Carroll is still ahead of the rest of the league by a good margin.
That game was a fucking bloodbath. Unlike Gruden I really like those sorts of games when they're Cinci/Pitt.
So, no clamoring for Smith-Schuster to be suspended?
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I don't watch as much NFL as you guys--I'm interested and catch one or two games per weekend, but I'm more of an NCAA football fan--but I found myself watching the game last night. I was pretty surprised by the commentators running down the referees. I kinda agreed with them on a couple of calls being in the phantom foul range but I'm more used to commentators attempting to give context for the close calls (sorta as apologists for the league and the officials). Was their attitude toward the officials unusual or is this the new norm in broadcasting games. It really stood out to me.
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I was a bit taken aback by Sean McDonough editorializing about the refs. You expect it from the color guy, but he spent a minute badmouthing them, which seems out of place for a play by play man. He's obviously correct that nobody goes to a game to watch the referees, but I also expect that if a ref sees something on the field he should call it.
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Yeah, that was the moment I was referring to. I should just go back to my usual standard of turning down the audio to the point that it's barely audible.
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How long is his suspension?
Not long enough.
OH, and I might have missed it, but where's the thread about Andy Reid being one of the best coaches in football. I seem to remember a LOT of talk about that about six, seven weeks ago, but now??? It is as inevitable as a shitheel tweet from Trump; a Reid defense is soft when they need to be strong, because he brought in a guy to SPECIFICALLY fill a void, and made the team markedly worse, and then when he needs the offense - led by a very good, but not great QB - to step up, he's got no timeouts and no idea how to manage a game clock and so falls short. Yesterday's game was text book Andy Reid, and that's what you get as an outcome. All the 5-1 starts in the world don't matter; it's how you finish.
Reid has been a head coach for now 300 games and won 60% of them. The Chiefs current free fall is inexplicable, but it doesn't take away from what a great coach Reid has been for nearly 20 years.
That's true; there are all those Super Bow.... oh wait. GOOD coach. Wouldn't say "GREAT".
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Pete Carroll is a tier 1.b coach. Belichick is the top tier, but Carroll is still ahead of the rest of the league by a good margin.
That game was a fucking bloodbath. Unlike Gruden I really like those sorts of games when they're Cinci/Pitt.
So, no clamoring for Smith-Schuster to be suspended?
I'd say he should probably sit a game for that, yeah. But who the heck knows? The NFL is so inconsistent with this stuff. The dude who decided to head bump AB in the end zone should probably get the same.
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Couple thoughts:
- Officiating in terms of game calls is pretty good for the speed of the game. Officiating for the personal foul stuff is like the NFL itself: arbitrary and random.
- Put me in the category of those that do not wish Burfict any long term harm, but isn't crying either. I don't like thugs. Play the game, hardnosed but like a sportsman.
- Put me in the category of those that dismiss the "Brady has more help" idea. I'm convinced that it's not that Brady has more around him, but that Brady elevates those around him. Look at the number of Patriots "stars" that go to other teams and fade into obscurity. Some of it is system, I'll give you that, but that's ANY good player, otherwise you have 11 guys running around like it's multiplayer Call of Duty Zombies. Patriots have never had a Marshawn Lynch. Even when they've had a Jimmy Graham (Gronk), inexplably (NOT!) they have a better record when he's NOT in the lineup.
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- Put me in the category of those that dismiss the "Brady has more help" idea.
I've never understood this either. He definitely has better coaching around him, but the player pool is the same other teams get to choose from. They turn over their roster just like everyone else. Up until Gilmore this past year, they almost never make big free agent splashes. They grab people from other teams and coach them up. They let them go, and they're never heard from again.
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- Put me in the category of those that dismiss the "Brady has more help" idea.
I've never understood this either. He definitely has better coaching around him, but the player pool is the same other teams get to choose from. They turn over their roster just like everyone else. Up until Gilmore this past year, they almost never make big free agent splashes. They grab people from other teams and coach them up. They let them go, and they're never heard from again.
Agreed. I'd say Brady's big advantage over the years has been coaching and system not supporting cast. They are in the same boat as the rest of the league there, some years the support is better than others.
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- Put me in the category of those that dismiss the "Brady has more help" idea.
I've never understood this either. He definitely has better coaching around him, but the player pool is the same other teams get to choose from. They turn over their roster just like everyone else. Up until Gilmore this past year, they almost never make big free agent splashes. They grab people from other teams and coach them up. They let them go, and they're never heard from again.
Agreed. I'd say Brady's big advantage over the years has been coaching and system not supporting cast. They are in the same boat as the rest of the league there, some years the support is better than others.
And yet they win, year in, year out. Tony Romo had a stat on Sunday: they've had 10 or more wins every season since 1784. Amazing, really.
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I've said this many times. Coaching is the key. Yes, there are really good athletes out there doing things that can't be coached, but the majority of players need good coaches in order for teams to succeed. Good coaches find hidden talents that maybe even the players don't know they have. Coaches mentoring players and players mentoring other players. It's a ripple effect.
Also, LOL Bengals. Way to finish strong at home! Must be a coaching thing. :rollin
- Put me in the category of those that dismiss the "Brady has more help" idea.
I've never understood this either. He definitely has better coaching around him, but the player pool is the same other teams get to choose from. They turn over their roster just like everyone else. Up until Gilmore this past year, they almost never make big free agent splashes. They grab people from other teams and coach them up. They let them go, and they're never heard from again.
Agreed. I'd say Brady's big advantage over the years has been coaching and system not supporting cast. They are in the same boat as the rest of the league there, some years the support is better than others.
And yet they win, year in, year out. Tony Romo had a stat on Sunday: they've had 10 or more wins every season since 1784. Amazing, really.
Wow! That's a long time! :lol
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- Put me in the category of those that dismiss the "Brady has more help" idea.
I've never understood this either. He definitely has better coaching around him, but the player pool is the same other teams get to choose from. They turn over their roster just like everyone else. Up until Gilmore this past year, they almost never make big free agent splashes. They grab people from other teams and coach them up. They let them go, and they're never heard from again.
Agreed. I'd say Brady's big advantage over the years has been coaching and system not supporting cast. They are in the same boat as the rest of the league there, some years the support is better than others.
And yet they win, year in, year out. Tony Romo had a stat on Sunday: they've had 10 or more wins every season since 1784. Amazing, really.
That is amazing. Is that when Paul Revere was the speedy wide out and George Washington was the head coach?
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They even overcame the embarrassing Lantern-gate scandal, where GW had a spotter in the belfry. One if by run, two if by pass.
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Well, clearly the British didn't make enough half-time adjustments... ;)
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Pete Carroll is a tier 1.b coach. Belichick is the top tier, but Carroll is still ahead of the rest of the league by a good margin.
That game was a fucking bloodbath. Unlike Gruden I really like those sorts of games when they're Cinci/Pitt.
So, no clamoring for Smith-Schuster to be suspended?
I'd say he should probably sit a game for that, yeah. But who the heck knows? The NFL is so inconsistent with this stuff. The dude who decided to head bump AB in the end zone should probably get the same.
Looks like that's exactly whats happening - Smith-Schuster and Iloka both are getting one game.
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I didn't think there was much of a doubt it would happen, though Smith-Schuster might have deserved 2. I was just pointing it out because it took zero time for people to start clamoring for Gronk to be suspended up to the entire season.
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I don't remember anyone saying he should have been suspended for the season, but Gronk's hit was worse and more dangerous (from behind across a prone player after the play vs from the front in the middle of a play). That said, the history with Burfict and the taunting (given it the impression that it was payback) is probably why Smith-Schuster got a game.
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Yea, I'd say the Gronk thang is worse, but apparently to the NFL it's all the same. Sounds about right.
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I don't remember anyone saying he should have been suspended for the season, but Gronk's hit was worse and more dangerous (from behind across a prone player after the play vs from the front in the middle of a play). That said, the history with Burfict and the taunting (given it the impression that it was payback) is probably why Smith-Schuster got a game.
Architeuthis did.
And not defending Gronk here, I agree with the suspension (random thought it may be), but I think the SS hit was worse for two reasons. One, he had a great deal of momentum working and went helmet to helmet. Gronk essentially fell on the guy. Two, Gronk's was a spur of the moment, frustration thing, and I doubt he was trying to hurt anybody. SS was very definitely trying to take Burfict's manure-filled head off. That's why I suggested he probably should have gotten 2.
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And not defending Gronk here, I agree with the suspension (random thought it may be), but I think the SS hit was worse for two reasons. One, he had a great deal of momentum working and went helmet to helmet. Gronk essentially fell on the guy. Two, Gronk's was a spur of the moment, frustration thing, and I doubt he was trying to hurt anybody. SS was very definitely trying to take Burfict's manure-filled head off. That's why I suggested he probably should have gotten 2.
If I may quote a wise man...
I think your bias is showing.
:biggrin:
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And not defending Gronk here, I agree with the suspension (random thought it may be), but I think the SS hit was worse for two reasons. One, he had a great deal of momentum working and went helmet to helmet. Gronk essentially fell on the guy. Two, Gronk's was a spur of the moment, frustration thing, and I doubt he was trying to hurt anybody. SS was very definitely trying to take Burfict's manure-filled head off. That's why I suggested he probably should have gotten 2.
Eh, I think I'd disagree. SS has shown no signs of being a dirty player, to me that's just him trying to throw a block and having it unfortunately land high. For what it's worth (which may be nothing) he said after the game he had no clue that it was VB until after the play.
That said, I think we are splitting hairs, both offenses deserved some sort of punishment and both got that.
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And not defending Gronk here, I agree with the suspension (random thought it may be), but I think the SS hit was worse for two reasons. One, he had a great deal of momentum working and went helmet to helmet. Gronk essentially fell on the guy. Two, Gronk's was a spur of the moment, frustration thing, and I doubt he was trying to hurt anybody. SS was very definitely trying to take Burfict's manure-filled head off. That's why I suggested he probably should have gotten 2.
If I may quote a wise man...
I think your bias is showing.
:biggrin:
Do you disagree with my assessment?
For the record I take the Penn and Teller approach. I'm biased as all fuck but I always try my best to be fair. I think that's definitely the case with my post there. Having said that, I re-read the post I was responding to and see no reason to think you weren't behaving the same in this particular instance, so your point is duly noted.
And not defending Gronk here, I agree with the suspension (random thought it may be), but I think the SS hit was worse for two reasons. One, he had a great deal of momentum working and went helmet to helmet. Gronk essentially fell on the guy. Two, Gronk's was a spur of the moment, frustration thing, and I doubt he was trying to hurt anybody. SS was very definitely trying to take Burfict's manure-filled head off. That's why I suggested he probably should have gotten 2.
Eh, I think I'd disagree. SS has shown no signs of being a dirty player, to me that's just him trying to throw a block and having it unfortunately land high. For what it's worth (which may be nothing) he said after the game he had no clue that it was VB until after the play.
That said, I think we are splitting hairs, both offenses deserved some sort of punishment and both got that.
Once I hit post I considered that he's just some receiver, who probably has no clue how to properly throw a block. But the taunting part kind of undermines that, I think. He was trying to take his head off and celebrated when he succeeded.
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Once I hit post I considered that he's just some receiver, who probably has no clue how to properly throw a block. But the taunting part kind of undermines that, I think. He was trying to take his head off and celebrated when he succeeded.
Good point on the celebration, I think that definitely was taken into consideration. That certainly made it worse.
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I don't for a second believe Smith-Schuster when he says he didn't know it was Burfict. That is just not believable.
Do you disagree with my assessment?
I do, yes.
For the record I take the Penn and Teller approach. I'm biased as all fuck but I always try my best to be fair. I think that's definitely the case with my post there. Having said that, I re-read the post I was responding to and see no reason to think you weren't behaving the same in this particular instance, so your point is duly noted.
:hat
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It is pretty rare for me to feel like Barto's biases are getting the best of him in a post here, and that applies just as much to his posts in P/R. I don't really see bias getting the best of him. With all due respect, Kev, I can't say the same of many of your posts in the sports-related threads.
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This is hard to judge because the act was harsh but it came from a player with no history. Gronk just let his frustrations get the best of him. 1 should be the suspension. I'm guessing it will be upheld.
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I'm honestly surprised, and a little disappointed that he's appealing it at all. I suppose he's hoping that his clean history gets it down to a fine, but I find that highly unlikely. Never hurts to ask, I guess. I'm pretty sure he realizes that it's warranted, though.
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I'm honestly surprised, and a little disappointed that he's appealing it at all. I suppose he's hoping that his clean history gets it down to a fine, but I find that highly unlikely. Never hurts to ask, I guess. I'm pretty sure he realizes that it's warranted, though.
The way his contract is written it could cost him almost 3 mil (2.8ish) if he misses the game, whereas if it's reduced to a fine of say 50-100k. It's much less a question of him owning it as it is a $$ issue.
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It seems appeals sometimes lower the penalty so for him, I don't see why not appeal even if you know it's wrong. It's better for the team if he doesn't miss the game so you almost have to appeal just to see what comes of it. However, some people on talk radio here were saying they probably should have given him a 2 game suspension knowing the appeal was coming and then drop it to the 1 game.
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It seems appeals sometimes lower the penalty so for him, I don't see why not appeal even if you know it's wrong. It's better for the team if he doesn't miss the game so you almost have to appeal just to see what comes of it. However, some people on talk radio here were saying they probably should have given him a 2 game suspension knowing the appeal was coming and then drop it to the 1 game.
I'll say this as a general point. Why set a penalty when a reduction is a fait accompli? It seems to happen all the time in the NFL.
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It seems appeals sometimes lower the penalty so for him, I don't see why not appeal even if you know it's wrong. It's better for the team if he doesn't miss the game so you almost have to appeal just to see what comes of it. However, some people on talk radio here were saying they probably should have given him a 2 game suspension knowing the appeal was coming and then drop it to the 1 game.
I'll say this as a general point. Why set a penalty when a reduction is a fait accompli? It seems to happen all the time in the NFL.
Cause the NFL needs to try to make everything as complicated as possible it seems.
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It seems appeals sometimes lower the penalty so for him, I don't see why not appeal even if you know it's wrong. It's better for the team if he doesn't miss the game so you almost have to appeal just to see what comes of it. However, some people on talk radio here were saying they probably should have given him a 2 game suspension knowing the appeal was coming and then drop it to the 1 game.
Isn't it better for the team if he doesn't do something stupid in the first place? This appeal crap is nothing but damage control after the fact that he already hurt the team. Players shouldn't even be allowed to appeal something like that. It's not like it's alleged or anything. :lol
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I live in Patriots and Giants country. The Patriots fans sports radio hosts today agreed that JJSS led with his shoulder, not helmet, and helmet contact was more accidental. The taunting for sure makes it look worse though. They’re not agreed on the blind-side aspect either, they were running toward each other. Is JJSS supposed to make sure VB sees him? You can’t legislate where a player’s eyes are looking if they are running toward each other. I also don’t understand Gronk getting the same suspension for a non-football play. Both players would be smart to just serve their suspensions now so that they’re ready for the head to head matchup.
Anyway, I wish this ugliness would stop. With VB finally getting his you would like to think it could end, but probably not. Too much bad blood. Four games a year of this when you add in the Ravens games and I appreciate it every time the killer Bs survive the game. 😔
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It seems appeals sometimes lower the penalty so for him, I don't see why not appeal even if you know it's wrong. It's better for the team if he doesn't miss the game so you almost have to appeal just to see what comes of it. However, some people on talk radio here were saying they probably should have given him a 2 game suspension knowing the appeal was coming and then drop it to the 1 game.
Isn't it better for the team if he doesn't do something stupid in the first place? This appeal crap is nothing but damage control after the fact that he already hurt the team. Players shouldn't even be allowed to appeal something like that. It's not like it's alleged or anything. :lol
Of course I agree with that. No one wants dirty hits in the league. I'd really love for the appeal to fail, because I don't think there's really much of a case personally.
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I figured I should watch the clips and see what the fuss was.
One, let me note that I couldn't find the Smith-Schuster hit... until I went to NFL.com, so there's a head scratcher there. It's flagrant, let's stop it, but make sure you come to our website to see it!
Two, I don't know; game, no game, Gronk's hit was poor, but is it on the level of choking someone? I don't think so. But if you're going to stop shit after the whistle, a game is fair.
Three, the suspension of JJSS ought to be for the taunt. I don't see ANYTHING wrong with the hit. In the field of play, during a play, and if Burfict's head was up, he sees JJSS coming. I played hockey until I was in college, and it was an unwritten rule; you skate with your head down, you were going to get flattened. That's what happened here. Now, in a heated game, I get it, the taunting can't happen. But fact is, a 6'1" 250 lb linebacker got flattened by a 6'1" 215 lb. receiver. Whaaaaaaaa.
Four, the Shazier play was creepy; no flag there, but you could see his body go limp at the hit. I hope he's okay.
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Good analysis. Louis Riddick is on the front page of ESPN right explaining the ridiculousness of the same 1-game suspension.
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That's Riddick you liss.
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I figured I should watch the clips and see what the fuss was.
One, let me note that I couldn't find the Smith-Schuster hit... until I went to NFL.com, so there's a head scratcher there. It's flagrant, let's stop it, but make sure you come to our website to see it!
Two, I don't know; game, no game, Gronk's hit was poor, but is it on the level of choking someone? I don't think so. But if you're going to stop shit after the whistle, a game is fair.
Three, the suspension of JJSS ought to be for the taunt. I don't see ANYTHING wrong with the hit. In the field of play, during a play, and if Burfict's head was up, he sees JJSS coming. I played hockey until I was in college, and it was an unwritten rule; you skate with your head down, you were going to get flattened. That's what happened here. Now, in a heated game, I get it, the taunting can't happen. But fact is, a 6'1" 250 lb linebacker got flattened by a 6'1" 215 lb. receiver. Whaaaaaaaa.
Four, the Shazier play was creepy; no flag there, but you could see his body go limp at the hit. I hope he's okay.
2. To be fair, Suh didn't choke him. He got him by the neck Darth Vader style and shoved him to the ground. Still should have gotten him a game, though.
3. He tried to take the guy's head off and then celebrated when he succeeded. I don't think it was a taunt so much as a celebration of a dangerous hit.
4. Spinal contusion. He wasn't Christopher Reeved, but it'll probably take some time before he's playing pick-up games at the park.
Good analysis. Louis Riddick is on the front page of ESPN right explaining the ridiculousness of the same 1-game suspension.
I don't think Gronk wanted to concuss the guy. I don't think he was thinking about anything other than the refs fucked him. I think JJSS definitely wanted to knock Burfict out. Hell, half that game looked more like WWI than a football game.
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There is more outrage over a guy losing his mind and doing something really stupid for the first time in 7 years in the league then this club Fest that happens every year when Cincy and Pittsburgh plays.
Gronk deserve the game but only a game because of the severity and only his first time. I love old time football and seeing teams club each other but we all have to dress the concussions are a serious issue.
Dream Team, WEEI or 98.5?
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Couple thoughts:
- Put me in the category of those that dismiss the "Brady has more help" idea. I'm convinced that it's not that Brady has more around him, but that Brady elevates those around him. Look at the number of Patriots "stars" that go to other teams and fade into obscurity. Some of it is system, I'll give you that, but that's ANY good player, otherwise you have 11 guys running around like it's multiplayer Call of Duty Zombies. Patriots have never had a Marshawn Lynch. Even when they've had a Jimmy Graham (Gronk), inexplably (NOT!) they have a better record when he's NOT in the lineup.
This is exactly how I feel. Brady is one of the few QBs that make average players look like stars. Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers are the two others that come to mind, but Brady absolutely elevates players around him.
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That is one of many reasons why they are 3 of the greatest to ever play the position. :coolio
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There is more outrage over a guy losing his mind and doing something really stupid for the first time in 7 years in the league then this club Fest that happens every year when Cincy and Pittsburgh plays.
Gronk deserve the game but only a game because of the severity and only his first time. I love old time football and seeing teams club each other but we all have to dress the concussions are a serious issue.
Dream Team, WEEI or 98.5?
Actually, a local team out of Burlington, VT. 101.3
Just want to add, Jason Whitlock and Colin Cowherd were also on the air today saying the Gronk and JJSS hits were totally incomparable. They are unbiased. Cowherd at least mentioned something lost amid the hits was it was another awesome comeback by Ben.
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[/quote]I don't think Gronk wanted to concuss the guy. I don't think he was thinking about anything other than the refs fucked him. I think JJSS definitely wanted to knock Burfict out. Hell, half that game looked more like WWI than a football game.
[/quote]
If that's the case, why didn't Gronk just hit the refs instead of taking it out on a defenseless player that was on the ground. There is no justification for a dick move like that, and he deserves a lot worse than a one game suspension.
If the average person gets caught doing something like that ( intentionally hurting someone), it's automatic jail time.. Oh, but he's a football star, and he's better.. Pffft!
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There is more outrage over a guy losing his mind and doing something really stupid for the first time in 7 years in the league then this club Fest that happens every year when Cincy and Pittsburgh plays.
Gronk deserve the game but only a game because of the severity and only his first time. I love old time football and seeing teams club each other but we all have to dress the concussions are a serious issue.
Dream Team, WEEI or 98.5?
Actually, a local team out of Burlington, VT. 101.3
Just want to add, Jason Whitlock and Colin Cowherd were also on the air today saying the Gronk and JJSS hits were totally incomparable. They are unbiased. Cowherd at least mentioned something lost amid the hits was it was another awesome comeback by Ben.
You live in my favorite city.
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I don't think Gronk wanted to concuss the guy. I don't think he was thinking about anything other than the refs fucked him. I think JJSS definitely wanted to knock Burfict out. Hell, half that game looked more like WWI than a football game.
[/quote]
If that's the case, why didn't Gronk just hit the refs instead of taking it out on a defenseless player that was on the ground. There is no justification for a dick move like that, and he deserves a lot worse than a one game suspension.
If the average person gets caught doing something like that ( intentionally hurting someone), it's automatic jail time.. Oh, but he's a football star, and he's better.. Pffft!
[/quote]
You have to take in account a players history when you give discipline. If Gronk did this before he would get multiple games.
It was a lapse of judgment, albeit a big lapse so one game is appropriate.
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There is more outrage over a guy losing his mind and doing something really stupid for the first time in 7 years in the league then this club Fest that happens every year when Cincy and Pittsburgh plays.
Gronk deserve the game but only a game because of the severity and only his first time. I love old time football and seeing teams club each other but we all have to dress the concussions are a serious issue.
Dream Team, WEEI or 98.5?
Actually, a local team out of Burlington, VT. 101.3
Just want to add, Jason Whitlock and Colin Cowherd were also on the air today saying the Gronk and JJSS hits were totally incomparable. They are unbiased. Cowherd at least mentioned something lost amid the hits was it was another awesome comeback by Ben.
You live in my favorite city.
I grew up in Burlington VT. Spent 8 years there till end of high school. It was an amazing place to grow up. Bernie was my Mayor LOL :)
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I love going up there. The wife and i always do a B&B for a few days.
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3. He tried to take the guy's head off and then celebrated when he succeeded. I don't think it was a taunt so much as a celebration of a dangerous hit.
I don't think Gronk wanted to concuss the guy. I don't think he was thinking about anything other than the refs fucked him. I think JJSS definitely wanted to knock Burfict out. Hell, half that game looked more like WWI than a football game.
Barto I think I respect your opinion more than most anyone else here, but how are you making a leap and assuming intent in both situations with different conclusions? Here's the thing - we have no clue on Gronk's intent or SS's intent.
All we can do is look at what we know. What we know is that SS made a football play that landed a few inches high and he stood over the guy afterward. If he happen to land that block a few inches lower, it would simply be an awesome block. Gronk did not make a football play that missed by a few inches.
I'm cool with SS getting the one game, I also would have been cool with him only getting fined. I'm not a huge fan of those guys pretty much getting the same discipline for very different offenses. But we can't judge intent, we have no clue.
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I think what he's trying to say is Gronk just lost his cool (As bad it is was) and the Ju-Ju hit looked like it was premeditated. At those speeds it really hard to tell. Either way both deserved the game suspension.
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I don't think Gronk wanted to concuss the guy. I don't think he was thinking about anything other than the refs fucked him. I think JJSS definitely wanted to knock Burfict out. Hell, half that game looked more like WWI than a football game.
[/quote]
If that's the case, why didn't Gronk just hit the refs instead of taking it out on a defenseless player that was on the ground. There is no justification for a dick move like that, and he deserves a lot worse than a one game suspension.
If the average person gets caught doing something like that ( intentionally hurting someone), it's automatic jail time.. Oh, but he's a football star, and he's better.. Pffft!
[/quote]
But I don't agree with that. Like I said, if I was King, I mean Goodell, I would be stopping the things after the whistle. The whistle is the almighty. Gronk doesn't get a suspension for "wanting to hurt the guy"; he gets a suspension for playing after the whistle. Same with JJSS; I don't care if he wanted to ring Burfict's bell, he did it legit and within the rules of the game. it's the taunt/celebration that's the problem. If you don't think that Ronnie wanted to mash people's kidneys every time he hit someone you weren't watching him closely. Wanting to put a solid hit on someone is not, at this point, a flaggable offense. I don't think you can legislate players wanting to play hard. You CAN legislate players wanting to take it past the play.
I used to play flag football with a bunch of my friends. I'm a short, fat guy, but I'm faster than I look and I have great hands (sorry, I do), so I played like a slot guy. We sucked, but I was second in the league in TDs (there was one team with a guy with an arm like Rodgers and a receiver that was like the wind; basically every possession was three tries at a deep bomb, and they usually hit it one of those three times). EVERY TD, I just either put the ball down on the ground or handed it to the ref. No games, no spikes, no nonsense. Play's over, the play's over. What happens between the whistles, well, other than the obvious - going for the knees, leading with the helmet (which we've seen hurts the tackler as much as the ballcarrier), etc. - is part of the game. In my opinion, JJSS/Burfict was part of the game.
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I think what he's trying to say is Gronk just lost his cool (As bad it is was) and the Ju-Ju hit looked like it was premeditated. At those speeds it really hard to tell. Either way both deserved the game suspension.
Right, and what I'm saying is that we have no clue if that's the case. To me, SS went to throw a block during a play and it landed a little high. For me to say it's premeditated would be a huge leap, there's no way of knowing that.
Also - why are we explaining away a very dirty play by Gronk by saying he "just lost his cool"...? So what? That has no bearing on how sever what he did was.
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You can say he lost his cool and also say it was dirty. It's not exclusive.
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I think what he's trying to say is Gronk just lost his cool (As bad it is was) and the Ju-Ju hit looked like it was premeditated. At those speeds it really hard to tell. Either way both deserved the game suspension.
Right, and what I'm saying is that we have no clue if that's the case. To me, SS went to throw a block during a play and it landed a little high. For me to say it's premeditated would be a huge leap, there's no way of knowing that.
So why do we have sportswriters, TV personalities, and people on this forum saying that Gronk deserved more than JJSS? Didn't one of them call it insulting? I'm simply going by what I've seen and what I knew leading up to this. Other people are, as well, but it seems to me they're making more out of it than I am.
Also - why are we explaining away a very dirty play by Gronk by saying he "just lost his cool"...? So what? That has no bearing on how sever what he did was.
I'm not explaining it away. I think he fucked up and deserved his suspension. I'm also recognizing that from what I saw it looked like a spontaneous thing, much as he described.
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Also - why are we explaining away a very dirty play by Gronk by saying he "just lost his cool"...? So what? That has no bearing on how sever what he did was.
I don't know that anyone is "explaining it away." Just explaining it. Look, I can't stand Gronk for a variety of reasons. And I'm no Patriots fan. But I see a difference in the two plays for sure, and I see Gronk's as less severe. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for him. There absolutely should. I'm not about to argue otherwise. But I do support what I believe is being said here, which is that while he needs to face the music for what he did, it's less severe than the other play we are talking about. We draw this distinction all the time.
Let's take a murder case for example. Killer A decides he has had it up to here with the guy down the street. He spends the next week or so following the guy to discern his routine and figure out when would be the best time to strike. He then researches and buys the weapon he thinks will be the most effective. He plots and comes up with the perfect plan to get the deed done with maximum efficiency. When the time is right, he strikes, and in cold blood, puts a bullet in the back of the guy's head, taking him out instantly. Killer B is your average guy who does to work every day, loves his wife and kids more than anything, and does his best to follow the rules and never hurt anybody. One day, he comes home early to surprise his wife with flowers and a ticket to that thing she loves, only to find her in bed with the guy down the street. Killer B loses it, and in a fit of rage, picks up the Louisville Slugger he keeps by the bedside and beats both to the bloody pulp. In the minute or so that it takes, they two suffer in excruciating pain, which only lingers and increases in the several minutes it takes before their lives slip away. Killer B is horrified at what he did, and can't believe he just "snapped" like that. Our criminal justice system typically makes a distinction between these two cases. Both have severe consequences. But the law recognizes that snapping in the heat of the moment is different than plotting and premeditating something and deliberately carrying it out in cold blood.
Or let's bring it back to sports. Basketball player A hates a player on the opposing team and wants to "teach him a lesson." All game long, he finds a way to be close to that player and in his face. He initiates a lot of contact throughout the game. Then, when the time is right and he thinks the refs aren't looking and they are sort of tangled up and it will look like an accident, but the play is over and the other player is disengaging, Player A deliberately throws an elbow that catches the other player in the jaw. Now on the other side, we have Player B, who basically follows the rules and plays clean. The guy defending him has been playing dirty all night, doing cheap things and not getting called for it. On one play in particular, Player B is going for an easy shot, and the defender doesn't even try for the ball, but just shoves Player B into the seats and then stands there laughing. Player B snaps, and before he can think about it, jumps up and takes a swing. Again, both plays are unacceptable. Both have consequences. But the heat-of-the-moment bad act after the play is over is much more understandable.
I'm not saying Gronk is the guy in either of those scenarios. But he is like the guy who just snapped and acted in the heat of the moment. So, while I don't think anyone here is excusing what he did, I think people are just saying that it is understandable, and once he pays the piper for it, we should just move on. And we shouldn't have much grief over it either. He's stupid. He lost his cool and his self control. But, best I can tell, he isn't a thug who has a practice of trying to go outside the rules and hurt people. So, yeah, to me, it's less egregious than a premeditated act.
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Reading Bosk's (excellent) post, I'm sort of amending what I said before. I thought both Gronk and JJSS were both more guilty of "after the whistle antics", but I sort of see both in the same light. Gronk's emotions got the better of him, and he hit the guy, and JJSS's emotions got the better of him, and he taunted/celebrated his big hit.
I'm moving now to "Gronk: one game, JJSS: fine". Or, if we insist on suspending JJSS, then "Gronk: two games, JJSS: one game".
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You can say he lost his cool and also say it was dirty. It's not exclusive.
I agree.
So why do we have sportswriters, TV personalities, and people on this forum saying that Gronk deserved more than JJSS? Didn't one of them call it insulting? I'm simply going by what I've seen and what I knew leading up to this. Other people are, as well, but it seems to me they're making more out of it than I am.
I think Gronk probably does deserve more than SS, but I'm just basing that on my read of both plays, not trying to make more of the Gronk thing in any way. I just feel like what he did deserves more discipline than what SS did, that's all. I'm not saying he should miss a ton of games or anything, but simply that, to me, his action was worse.
I'm not explaining it away. I think he fucked up and deserved his suspension. I'm also recognizing that from what I saw it looked like a spontaneous thing, much as he described.
Maybe "explaining it away" was a bad way to phrase it on my part. You and I agree on the Gronk play in a vacuum, I think. It seems like where we disagree is in the comparison. To me, SS's play was less of an offense. It was a good block that landed a little high in the middle of a quick developing play. He then stood over the guy. To me, that is less severe than what Gronk did, that's all I'm trying to say.
I don't know that anyone is "explaining it away." Just explaining it. Look, I can't stand Gronk for a variety of reasons. And I'm no Patriots fan. But I see a difference in the two plays for sure, and I see Gronk's as less severe. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for him. There absolutely should. I'm not about to argue otherwise. But I do support what I believe is being said here, which is that while he needs to face the music for what he did, it's less severe than the other play we are talking about. We draw this distinction all the time.
Let's take a murder case for example. Killer A decides he has had it up to here with the guy down the street. He spends the next week or so following the guy to discern his routine and figure out when would be the best time to strike. He then researches and buys the weapon he thinks will be the most effective. He plots and comes up with the perfect plan to get the deed done with maximum efficiency. When the time is right, he strikes, and in cold blood, puts a bullet in the back of the guy's head, taking him out instantly. Killer B is your average guy who does to work every day, loves his wife and kids more than anything, and does his best to follow the rules and never hurt anybody. One day, he comes home early to surprise his wife with flowers and a ticket to that thing she loves, only to find her in bed with the guy down the street. Killer B loses it, and in a fit of rage, picks up the Louisville Slugger he keeps by the bedside and beats both to the bloody pulp. In the minute or so that it takes, they two suffer in excruciating pain, which only lingers and increases in the several minutes it takes before their lives slip away. Killer B is horrified at what he did, and can't believe he just "snapped" like that. Our criminal justice system typically makes a distinction between these two cases. Both have severe consequences. But the law recognizes that snapping in the heat of the moment is different than plotting and premeditating something and deliberately carrying it out in cold blood.
Or let's bring it back to sports. Basketball player A hates a player on the opposing team and wants to "teach him a lesson." All game long, he finds a way to be close to that player and in his face. He initiates a lot of contact throughout the game. Then, when the time is right and he thinks the refs aren't looking and they are sort of tangled up and it will look like an accident, but the play is over and the other player is disengaging, Player A deliberately throws an elbow that catches the other player in the jaw. Now on the other side, we have Player B, who basically follows the rules and plays clean. The guy defending him has been playing dirty all night, doing cheap things and not getting called for it. On one play in particular, Player B is going for an easy shot, and the defender doesn't even try for the ball, but just shoves Player B into the seats and then stands there laughing. Player B snaps, and before he can think about it, jumps up and takes a swing. Again, both plays are unacceptable. Both have consequences. But the heat-of-the-moment bad act after the play is over is much more understandable.
I'm not saying Gronk is the guy in either of those scenarios. But he is like the guy who just snapped and acted in the heat of the moment. So, while I don't think anyone here is excusing what he did, I think people are just saying that it is understandable, and once he pays the piper for it, we should just move on. And we shouldn't have much grief over it either. He's stupid. He lost his cool and his self control. But, best I can tell, he isn't a thug who has a practice of trying to go outside the rules and hurt people. So, yeah, to me, it's less egregious than a premeditated act.
Good post bosk, I agree with your overall point. But once again, why are we determining that the SS play was some sort of premeditated attack, that's the assumption I'm pushing back on. If you watch the play, it develops quick and SS throws a great block that happens to land high. There's nothing there that shows me it was premeditated at all.
He isn't a dirty player who has a history of issues, he threw a block that ten years ago, wouldn't have even gotten looked at.
Reading Bosk's (excellent) post, I'm sort of amending what I said before. I thought both Gronk and JJSS were both more guilty of "after the whistle antics", but I sort of see both in the same light. Gronk's emotions got the better of him, and he hit the guy, and JJSS's emotions got the better of him, and he taunted/celebrated his big hit.
I'm moving now to "Gronk: one game, JJSS: fine". Or, if we insist on suspending JJSS, then "Gronk: two games, JJSS: one game".
THIS. I agree Stads, and that's all I'm really trying to say (maybe I'm doing a bad job of it).
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Good post bosk, I agree with your overall point. But once again, why are we determining that the SS play was some sort of premeditated attack, that's the assumption I'm pushing back on.
That was poor wording on my part. I'm not assuming the SS play was a premeditated attack. The taunting afterward sure does make it look that way though. But either way, my point wasn't to judge that play. My point was to explain the explaining of the Gronk play. That's where my focus was. Sorry if I worded the other part of it poorly.
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That was poor wording on my part. I'm not assuming the SS play was a premeditated attack. The taunting afterward sure does make it look that way though. But either way, my point wasn't to judge that play. My point was to explain the explaining of the Gronk play. That's where my focus was. Sorry if I worded the other part of it poorly.
I gotcha. I honestly think SS tried to throw a big block and thought he landed it - so he (very foolishly) stood over VB and celebrated. I think that was definitely a mistake, and while I understand where you are coming from, that doesn't necessarily mean it was something he pre-planned.
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Losses suck, but there was a lot of good to take out of this one. So no 15-1. No biggie, still plenty to be excited for.
Bring on the Rams!
Oh, the Rams are coming.... :lol Be careful what you wish for, big dawg! :yarr
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Losses suck, but there was a lot of good to take out of this one. So no 15-1. No biggie, still plenty to be excited for.
Bring on the Rams!
Oh, the Rams are coming.... :lol Be careful what you wish for, big dawg! :yarr
I feel like with the Eagles, we're going to see that kind of post again: "So no x-2. No biggie...". "So no NFC Championship Game. No biggie..." "So no Super Bowl. No biggie..."
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Sounds good to me. Keep the tradition going. :lol
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Sounds good to me. Keep the tradition going. :lol
That sounds good to me, too. But it largely depends on who they are facing. My ranking of the current playoff-eligible teams goes something like:
Chiefs
Saints
Vikings
Jaguars
Titans
Steelers
Patriots
Falcons
Eagles
Ravens
Panthers
Rams
Seahawks
So, yeah, there are plenty of scenarios where I might root for them in particular playoff games and even the Super Bowl. But by and large, I don't support them.
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The 49ers game unsurprisingly wasn't broadcast here last week, so I didn't get to watch, but the more I read and see clips, the more excited I get about Jimmy G and what he can mean to the team.
The Athletic (paid service, so no point in link), had a great article (aside from others about his offensive abilities) on how much he helped the defense. Last few seasons the 49ers D has been one of, if not the most overworked. That game against the Bears... fewest plays in about 25 years by the defense.
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Iloka doesn't get suspended at all for his shot to AB :lol
https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000888849/article/george-ilokas-onegame-suspension-reduced-to-fine (https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000888849/article/george-ilokas-onegame-suspension-reduced-to-fine)
Way to care about head shots NFL :tup
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Iloka doesn't get suspended at all for his shot to AB :lol
https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000888849/article/george-ilokas-onegame-suspension-reduced-to-fine (https://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000888849/article/george-ilokas-onegame-suspension-reduced-to-fine)
Way to care about head shots NFL :tup
Well we already know the league is a joke. So hypocritical. How much you wanna bet the schedule a Steelers - Bengals primtime game next year? Ratings!
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So, there's a fine line between ratings and concussion protocol. :corn
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I can't tell you how disappointed I was that Cinci didn't win, just for the mere possibility they meet again in the playoffs. And to be fair, bloodbath aside that was a great game. As was the playoff implosion a while back. I'd say the over the top violence is a side effect of what makes it a great series.
But yeah, the league is a joke.
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I can't tell you how disappointed I was that Cinci didn't win, just for the mere possibility they meet again in the playoffs. And to be fair, bloodbath aside that was a great game. As was the playoff implosion a while back. I'd say the over the top violence is a side effect of what makes it a great series.
But yeah, the league is a joke.
Aside from your first statement (as a Steelers fan, I was glad the Steelers won) I totally agree. That game was very entertaining. I kind of found the media reaction of how horrible the game was funny, because it was probably the most entertaining game I've seen in a while.
And yeah, the league is a joke.
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After reading through reports about Shazier’s surgery, he should probably give up football. Recovery is 4-6 months just to walk and move without issues. Too bad too cause football has been the dude’s life since he was 4, as a way to cope with alopecia and the constant teasing.
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I can't tell you how disappointed I was that Cinci didn't win, just for the mere possibility they meet again in the playoffs. And to be fair, bloodbath aside that was a great game. As was the playoff implosion a while back. I'd say the over the top violence is a side effect of what makes it a great series.
But yeah, the league is a joke.
Aside from your first statement (as a Steelers fan, I was glad the Steelers won) I totally agree. That ::)game was very entertaining. I kind of found the media reaction of how horrible the game was funny, because it was probably the most entertaining game I've seen in a while.
And yeah, the league is a joke.
Everyone ran with Gruden’s take without bothering to form intelligent opinions on their own.
One crackback block, one helmet to helmet. OMG WORST GAME EVER. ::)
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After reading through reports about Shazier’s surgery, he should probably give up football. Recovery is 4-6 months just to walk and move without issues. Too bad too cause football has been the dude’s life since he was 4, as a way to cope with alopecia and the constant teasing.
Man, I feel so bad for him.
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That totally blows.
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Matt Ryan is making some terrible decisions. It's like he thinks if he just throws it in JJ's direction, he'll complete it. That 3rd pick, there was no way he could even see Jones he was so well covered.
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I can only imagine what the score of this game would be right now if Kamara hadn't gotten knocked out of the game by a helmet to helmet hit.
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Just like the Saints/niners divisional game in 2011. That 2009 SB victory may be the only one I ever see.
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Isn’t it amazing how often supposedly great coaches blow games due to stupidity?
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If that's about Sean Payton, I agree that he's criminally overrated but that INT is squarely on Drew. Fuckin threw the ball when a beyond-shitty TE was completely engaged by a DB. Even Jimmy Graham would've had trouble hauling that in. Josh Hill has been stealin money here for years so who in their right mind would ever expect him to make that play?
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The worst thing about Payton was it wasn't even a "do we or don't we" call. Or bad clock management, something like that. His players were keeping a cool head, and literally marching down the field on offense (but for the INT) and he goes and blows his stack. That was beyond bad.
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They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Matt Ryan did everything he could to lose that one, but Drew had to one-up him.
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They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Matt Ryan did everything he could to lose that one, but Drew had to one-up him.
Yeah, pretty much.
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Damn, I missed the game. A real nail biter? It was only a matter of who wanted to lose the most huh? That's a good theme for TNF. :lol
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It was three hours of millionaires seeing whose dick was long enough to penetrate the kitchen sink's drain and touch the disposal blade.
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Both coaches shit the bed big time in that game last night.
Oh, and the officiating was atrocious. How do the Saints not get to kick the FG again at the end of the half when the whistle was blowing the play dead while the kick was in the air (meaning the clock should not have run out)? I love how that was never explained.
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Both coaches shit the bed big time in that game last night.
Oh, and the officiating was atrocious. How do the Saints not get to kick the FG again at the end of the half when the whistle was blowing the play dead while the kick was in the air (meaning the clock should not have run out)? I love how that was never explained.
Right? It's not like an illegal formation penalty is called 4 seconds after the snap.
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I don't think I've ever seen the NFC so wide open this late in the season. Right now, these would be the playoff team (you could make a strong argument for why any of those teams can make the Super Bowl):
Minnesota 10-2
Philly 10-2
LA Rams 9-3
New Orleans 9-4
Seattle 8-4
Carolina 8-4
Plus, while Matt Ryan isn't playing like he did last year, Atlanta, who is barely the odd team out right now, could get easily get hot and make a run like last year. And while they are 6-6, there is always the slim chance that the Packers could squeeze in, if they beat Cleveland today, and then Rodgers comes back, they win out, and the tiebreakers fall their way.
Minnesota at Carolina and Philly at Rams are two huge games today in deciding what the NFC playoff picture will look like.
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Touchdown DALLAS!!!
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KEEP THE HOPE ALIVE CLEVELAND!
Edit: You did not disappoint!
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Wentz is done for the game with a knee injury he suffered before throwing his 4th TD of the game. Hoping that he's not out for the year
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Wentz is done for the game with a knee injury he suffered before throwing his 4th TD of the game. Hoping that he's not out for the year
Yes. Let's hope it's not too serious.
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What a game! I hope Wentz is okay.
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The end of the Seahawks/Jags game was nuts, but not in a good way.
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They fear Wentz tore his acl.
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Feel terrible for him. But he needs to learn that he doesn't need to do it all on his own. Feed Blount and Ajayi down near the goalline.
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I KNEW that would happen before the Patriots game. So long 2017 it was nice while it lasted.
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The end of the Seahawks/Jags game was nuts, but not in a good way.
That was ugly. And Quentin Jefferson trying to jump into the stands to attack the fans that were throwing beer at him just made worse. Those Jags fans escalated things too. Tomorrow is going to be a day full of suspensions and penalizations.
KEEP THE HOPE ALIVE CLEVELAND!
Edit: You did not disappoint!
:lol
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I KNEW that would happen before the Patriots game. So long 2017 it was nice while it lasted.
;D
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I KNEW that would happen before the Patriots game. So long 2017 it was nice while it lasted.
So Endelman and Hightower are no loses?
Great teams rise above.
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They fear Wentz tore his acl.
That sucks. You hate to see a talent like that get hurt when he was having such a great breakout season.
The end of the Seahawks/Jags game was nuts, but not in a good way.
Seahawks acting like crybaby sore losers...again. They are easily the most dislikable team in the NFL (despite having one of the most likable QBs).
Great teams rise above.
Like in 2011 when Patriots fans everywhere said they would have beaten the Giants in the Super Bowl if Gronk had been healthy?
Or in 2015 when Patriots fans everywhere blamed their late season decline on the O-line not being very good?
Great examples of rising above, right? :P
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Come on man. Straw man argument. Did you hear me say That? The average fan wants to jump off a cliff.
BTW, you did see me say damn, I hope he's ok?
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Just messing with you, hence the :P.
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You son of a :lol
It really a shame but they do have the best backup.
*Since the Pats traded the best backup away*
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You son of a :lol
It really a shame but they do have the best backup.
*Since the Pats traded the best backup away*
Thanks again!
Niners 2-0 with Jimmy G at QB!
Got to actually watch the game this week. We're certainly not there yet, but we can build in a positive manner now, I feel.
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Fans sure are tough when they are up in the stands behind barricades. You sure showed that 300 lb pro athlete with your cup of overpriced Budweiser dude. Top notch fella you are. Jefferson, he threw a cup at you, he didn't hijack your car, demolish it, paint it the other team's colors.
Seahawks acting like crybaby sore losers...again. They are easily the most dislikable team in the NFL (despite having one of the most likable QBs).
Kev, I consider myself a very neutral Seattle fan. I root for the local teams - though it can be hard to ruin for the Mariners considering how poorly they've been managed over the years - and I try not to take sides, other than they are my local team. For a long time I didn't mind the personality of this team. And everyone here thought "don't like us? That's alright. They aren't wife-beaters and druggies." And bringing a pro championship to a town that hadn't seen one since 1979 earns you plenty of cred. But I listen to local sports radio a lot and the are well on the road to unlikability here.
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Fans sure are tough when they are up in the stands behind barricades. You sure showed that 300 lb pro athlete with your cup of overpriced Budweiser dude. Top notch fella you are. Jefferson, he threw a cup at you, he didn't hijack your car, demolish it, paint it the other team's colors.
Seahawks acting like crybaby sore losers...again. They are easily the most dislikable team in the NFL (despite having one of the most likable QBs).
Kev, I consider myself a very neutral Seattle fan. I root for the local teams - though it can be hard to ruin for the Mariners considering how poorly they've been managed over the years - and I try not to take sides, other than they are my local team. For a long time I didn't mind the personality of this team. And everyone here thought "don't like us? That's alright. They aren't wife-beaters and druggies." And bringing a pro championship to a town that hadn't seen one since 1979 earns you plenty of cred. But I listen to local sports radio a lot and the are well on the road to unlikability here.
Good on those fans. What kind of clown players try to injure other players during a damn kneeldown?
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500+ yds passing against the Ravens’ D. 1st QB ever with 3 500 yd games.
OMG one of the best games I’ve seen. Ben still a comeback machine.
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Not if you're a Ravens fan :sad:
I know that everybody tuned in tonight, expecting one of the most explosive offensive games of the season. ;)
This makes two years in a row at Heinz Field, that the Ravens moved the ball almost at will, put up mucho points, but the efense virtually disappears after taking the lead. Kudos to Ben and Bell and Antonio. And Flacco and Marty. Two weeks in a row with surprisingly good schemes and production.
One hell of a rivalry, a game to savor, even in defeat.
Frick! Frick! Frick!
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Not if you're a Ravens fan :sad:
I know that everybody tuned in tonight, expecting one of the most explosive offensive games of the season. ;)
This makes two years in a row at Heinz Field, that the Ravens moved the ball almost at will, put up mucho points, but the efense virtually disappears after taking the lead. Kudos to Ben and Bell and Antonio. And Flacco and Marty. Two weeks in a row with surprisingly good schemes and production.
One hell of a rivalry, a game to savor, even in defeat.
Frick! Frick! Frick!
Yeah, nice change of pace from the defensive battles we usually have. Great emotional win for Shazier, he was face-timing from his bed and got the game ball.
Steelers always bring out the best in Flacco, and Collins was a beast. Gotta give major props to our O-Line, 69 dropbacks and only 3 sacks given up.
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Like in 2011 when Patriots fans everywhere said they would have beaten the Giants in the Super Bowl if Gronk had been healthy?
Or in 2015 when Patriots fans everywhere blamed their late season decline on the O-line not being very good?
Great examples of rising above, right? :P
Two VERY questionable examples - see King's excellent and accurate reply - in over ten years, when you have the following:
- a BETTER record when Gronk ISN'T in the game
- surviving, no THRIVING, after losing Moss, Dillon, Brewski, VInatieri, Wilfork, Blount, Welker, Edelman, Collins, Talib, Revis, and a host of other guys
- surviving to go 12-5 without Brady, who missed a season
- surviving to go 3-1 with Brady suspended, AND losing your backup to injury
- need I even say it? Being down 28-3 in the second half of the Super Bowl.
Yeah, I think you can say the Pats rise above.
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Steelers D looks BAD without Shazier. TB12 must be licking his chops. I hope Tomlin’s plan is to try to win 51-50.
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Steelers D looks BAD without Shazier. TB12 must be licking his chops. I hope Tomlin’s plan is to try to win 51-50.
Honestly, that was my biggest takeaway from the Steelers game last night. It's great that they won, but once again, they cut it way, way too close based on the caliber of the opponent.
They aren't going to comeback like that against the Pats, and without Shazier I agree with you, I think our D becomes a HUGE liability against TB.
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Kev, I consider myself a very neutral Seattle fan. I root for the local teams - though it can be hard to ruin for the Mariners considering how poorly they've been managed over the years - and I try not to take sides, other than they are my local team. For a long time I didn't mind the personality of this team. And everyone here thought "don't like us? That's alright. They aren't wife-beaters and druggies." And bringing a pro championship to a town that hadn't seen one since 1979 earns you plenty of cred. But I listen to local sports radio a lot and the are well on the road to unlikability here.
They are sore losers, and nobody like a sore loser. The lack of character on that defense has been glaring since the 4th quarter collapse against the Patriots three years ago.
500+ yds passing against the Ravens’ D. 1st QB ever with 3 500 yd games.
OMG one of the best games I’ve seen. Ben still a comeback machine.
I fell asleep early last night and missed the 2nd half, so it figures that it was a good one for once. :lol :lol
I did watch the end of it a bit ago when I got home (yay DVR) and my question is this: is John Harbaugh brain dead? How do you leave Antonio Brown in one on one coverage with no help over the top on that bomb at the end that put them in FG range? Mind-boggling.
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Bad pass by Brady. Way underthrown.
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Bad pass by Brady. Way underthrown.
Just saw that. We have the Celtics on and they're getting blown out by Chicago. Seems both teams are overlooking inferior opponents.
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Yay another field goal. Stupid phish.
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Shame on the Miami player for using his face mask to interfere with Cooks. ::)
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Shame on the Miami player for using his face mask to interfere with Cooks. ::)
Yep, hard to believe a BS call would bail the Patriots out after a failed 3rd down conversion. You can almost set your watch to it.
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Kev, Kev. Al teams get BS calls. :lol
Come back to me bro.
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Kev whining about the Patriots. You can almost set your watch to it.
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Like I said. Pass interference? Yup. Refs suck and it affects both sides.
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That was an easy PI call. Let's be serious.
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You mean a guy that actually heads turned around in his hands up and the receiver Landry stops and flails his arms I don't think so.
Also game over.
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He didn't turn his head until Landry was trying to slow down for the underthrown pass. It was one of those calls that sucks for the D, where it was only PI because the ball was underthrown, but it was PI.
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That was an easy PI call. Let's be serious.
The second one was. The first one was just as cheesy as the one on Cooks. Both teams have had a bad one. But it doesn't matter. We all know that the refs are part of a conspiracy to make sure NE always wins. Kraft's probably Illuminati or something.
Doesn't matter. Miami is beating the shit out of NE right now. NE is playing undisciplined football like the first few weeks.
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Steelers fans are probably cringing right now, since you know Belichick is gonna kick their asses in practice this week, and they will come out ready to go next Sunday.
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Miami is our goddamn Kryptonite. Every time we play them it's a tough game.
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Miami is our goddamn Kryptonite. Every time we play them it's a tough game.
Last three games between NE and Miami:
35-17 NE
35-14 NE
31-24 NE (Miami scored a bunch late to make it look closer than it really was).
Tough games every time? :P
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Let's go through the full history not just recent. Why don't you pull up the stat with Brady's record is in Miami career. I'll wait for you to look it up cuz I already know it.
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You said every time. ;)
Which I know was just hyperbole...have you forgotten I like busting your chops? :biggrin:
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:P :P :P :P :P :P
:lol
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BTW Kev now Brady 7-9 at Miami .
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Steelers fans are probably cringing right now, since you know Belichick is gonna kick their asses in practice this week, and they will come out ready to go next Sunday.
So. True.
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IDK the Pats offense has been sputtering for a few weeks now.
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IDK the Pats offense has been sputtering for a few weeks now.
Right, but the Steelers have been struggling to barely beat sub-par teams for several weeks now. Our D is also very beat up.
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Belichick's post game was the stuff of legend.
"Can you walk us through that onside kick at the end?"
"They recovered it."
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Belichick's post game was the stuff of legend.
"Can you walk us through that onside kick at the end?"
"They recovered it."
Brilliant. :lol
God I'd love to see him replace Sarah Huckabee-Sanders.
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Why is it ok for BB to be an a-hole at the pressers? He's the only coach in the NFL who's had success?
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Why is it ok for BB to be an a-hole at the pressers? He's the only coach in the NFL who's had success?
Not sure what that means. Anyone can, and it's not like it's without scorn; Scott Van Pelt said exactly that on his show: why can't Bill be a decent human, understand that those reporters are just doing a job, and throw them a bone. The question about third down conversions - the Pats were oh-for-whatever on the night - was a legit question, and while esoteric, the on-side kick one was too (Gostkowski basically rolled the ball about 7.5 yards before a Dolphin fell on it).
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I'm a really bad loser. Losing pisses me off. If I had to go out and answer a bunch of stupid questions thirty minutes after getting my ass kicked by a second rate team, I'd be a dick too. After an ugly loss, and last night was butt ugly, people have to know what his answers are going to be and how he's going to give them. If you want an in depth explanation of something wait until after a win. He can be pretty talkative when he's in a good mood.
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Also something Van Pelt said (talkative when in a good mood).
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I'm a really bad loser. Losing pisses me off. If I had to go out and answer a bunch of stupid questions thirty minutes after getting my ass kicked by a second rate team, I'd be a dick too. After an ugly loss, and last night was butt ugly, people have to know what his answers are going to be and how he's going to give them. If you want an in depth explanation of something wait until after a win. He can be pretty talkative when he's in a good mood.
Well, I don't know anybody who likes to lose. But, the Pats are probably the worst losers in the league because they haven't had very much practice. :lol
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Everyone can be an a-hole at these pressers. I'd prefer BB's honest approach than Pete Carroll's "I'll talk really fast for 5 minutes any maybe they will think I am actually answering their question" approach. I know reporters have a thankless job, but the New England area isn't going to collapse if they all said "Fuck it, I'm not going to any more of Bill's pressers" and we never got any more of his nuggets of wit.
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Pats sign WR Kenny Britt to a 2 year deal.
https://www.sportingnews.com/amp/nfl/news/nfl-patriots-sign-kenny-britt-browns-release-contract-details-news/wgxsin7okqig1sp4kspb9xsfm?__twitter_impression=true
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Why is it ok for BB to be an a-hole at the pressers? He's the only coach in the NFL who's had success?
I don't think he's an a-hole in those pressers; I just think he has no interest in giving the media anything, especially when they ask stupid questions, and since he is not the type to spit out cliches, short, blunt answers are the norm.
Personally, I get a kick out of him treating the media the way he does.
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Post-Week 14 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. New England - despite the loss, still the team to beat until I see consistent slippage
2. Philadelphia - their upside is limited because of the Wentz injury, but I base these rankings on what we have seen, not what is still to come
3. Minnesota - still gonna be a tough out
4. Pittsburgh - no excuses left...this is the year they have to beat NE
5. New Orleans - weird loss, but they'll be okay
6. LA Rams - tough loss and now need to win at Seattle to possibly avoid fighting for a wild card
7. Jacksonville - that D is nasty
8. Carolina - ugly win, but that D will make them a tough out in the playoffs
9. Seattle - must-win game against the Rams this week
10. LA Chargers - after fighting their way back to where they are, now face a must-win at KC
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Russell Wilson - he is still the main reason why they are in contention for the playoffs
2. Tom Brady - after two subpar games, will he bounce back against a D he usually torches, or is this is the start of the decline?
3. Carson Wentz - I would've put him at 1 again had he not gotten hurt
4. Antonio Brown - I can't put a WR in the top 3, but his value is immeasurable
5. Alvin Kamara - seeing the Saints offense slow to a crawl after he left with a concussion last Thursday made it clear how valuable he is to that team
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Yeah, I really don't care that Belichick isn't pleasant during those press conferences. And he actually does more for the fans/media than most coaches do, because he does those awesome segments for the team website where he breaks down film. I wish every coach did that.
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Yeah, I really don't care that Belichick isn't pleasant during those press conferences. And he actually does more for the fans/media than most coaches do, because he does those awesome segments for the team website where he breaks down film. I wish every coach did that.
Where? I have several NEP feeds and I've never seen that.
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I thought he did something with Mike Lynch on Channel 5. At least, he has in the past.
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I thought he did something with Mike Lynch on Channel 5. At least, he has in the past.
It's with Scott Zolak now on Patriots All Access.
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Yeah, I really don't care that Belichick isn't pleasant during those press conferences. And he actually does more for the fans/media than most coaches do, because he does those awesome segments for the team website where he breaks down film. I wish every coach did that.
Where? I have several NEP feeds and I've never seen that.
You can find them here. https://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/belichick-breakdowns
Not being a Patriots fan, I don't watch them all (though I probably should), but the ones I've seen have been pretty cool.
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Such a Chargers thing to do last night...fight like hell to get back in the race and lose the game they had to win.
Oh, and that was quite a performance by the Chiefs. I suspect most aren't surprised to see an Andy Reid-coached team play extremely well in a big game (and that WAS a big game).
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I read that they talked about fixing the running game and that Alex Smith wasn't the problem.
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Pats will get their asses handed to them today. I just don't think their O-line will hold up.
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The Steelers just allowed 28 points to Brett Hundley and 38 points to Joe Flacco.
In games against a team coached or D-coordinated by Mike Tomlin, Tom Brady has 26 touchdown passes and 1 interception.
I think Tom Brady will be just fine today.
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So the Bengals finally decide to jettison Marvin Lewis. And instead of tarring, feathering, and rail-carrying his ass out of the city they're going to make him the GM. :rollin
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OK, a lot to criticize about the NFL this year but here's something positive. I LOVE when a player scores a touchdown and finds a little kid in the stands to give the football to. Kid will never forget it.
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So the Bengals finally decide to jettison Marvin Lewis. And instead of tarring, feathering, and rail-carrying his ass out of the city they're going to make him the GM. :rollin
Holy shit I didn't know about the GM part. LOL
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That did NOT look good for Brown. Ouch.
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Of course. Drops the TD and gets hurt. Game over.
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Of course. Drops the TD and gets hurt. Game over.
You'd think so but there's fight in this Steelers team. 3 quarters to go.
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Congrats LA Rams, on taking over the NFC West earlier than I had expected. I thought Seattle had at least 2-3 more years before relinquishing control.
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Congrats LA Rams, on taking over the NFC West earlier than I had expected. I thought Seattle had at least 2-3 more years before relinquishing control.
You know, if my Steelers can’t win the SB this year it would be a great story if someone like the Rams could.
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Nice to see the Vikings bounce back from last week's loss with an easy win at home as it should have been.
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Patriots 0 penalties first half
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Dammit.
Dream Team. Pittsburgh is a scoring at will. No chance for a penalty.
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Brady WTF??
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Somebody needs to get open besides Gronk.
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Are we gonna finish the game with any skill position players intact? :lol
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Jesus what a battle.
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This is not directed at anyone on this forum, but a giant middle finger to all the so-called experts who predicted a NE blowout this past week. I wonder if they will appear on tv and own their BS?
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Not this expert!
Pats will get their asses handed to them today. I just don't think their O-line will hold up.
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O M G!!
TOUCHDOWN!!!!
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So glad I can't watch this game because the Seahawks are playing in Seattle at the same time.
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Tony Romo is correct. How do you let Gronk go one-on-one in that two point conversion?
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
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Well Pats D. You blew it.
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What a fucking game. :metal
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Dear lord, James caught that TD from where I’m sitting....
Highway robbery at its finest.
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Damn , 2 wild endings in the same game.
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I'm amazed people even question it. The ball was bobbling while it was on the ground, FFS.
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By the rules of the game that wasn't a catch. Instant replay is ruining the game. That being said, thst was one hell of a win for the Pats.
I'm amazed people even question it. The ball was bobbling while it was on the ground, FFS.
Agreed. I still hate instant replay.
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Watching the end of the SF/Tenn game and it's good to see Garoppolo doing well. I'd prefer they lose for betting purposes, but I am happy for the guy.
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Two great endings back to back was nice to watch.
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I'm amazed people even question it. The ball was bobbling while it was on the ground, FFS.
Looked like a clean football catch to me.
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Watching the end of the SF/Tenn game and it's good to see Garoppolo doing well. I'd prefer they lose for betting purposes, but I am happy for the guy.
Their kicker kicked 6 FGs!! Wow!!
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Watching the end of the SF/Tenn game and it's good to see Garoppolo doing well. I'd prefer they lose for betting purposes, but I am happy for the guy.
It's amazing what a real quarterback for team can do. So far few in between.
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Jimmy G and Gould FTW!
I know it doesn't matter for shit this year, but I'm ready for next season!
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I'm amazed people even question it. The ball was bobbling while it was on the ground, FFS.
Not sure what you define "bobbling", but I certainly wouldn't see it that way. His left hand rolled over the ball, while his right was still mostly underneath it. So, I guess for the NFL, the definition of a catch is "2 palms on the ball"? Just because the back of his hand was on the ball, that means it's not a catch? His knee and elbow were down when he crossed the plane of the goal-line. Why then does it matter what happens when the ball hits the ground? Where's the rule that "the ball can't cause a fumble"? If the ground can't cause a fumble, then it can't cause ANY loss of control. Doesn't the downed knee AND elbow give him control of the ball regardless of what the ground does AFTER that - IN THE ENDZONE?
Funny how the north-eastern members are validating the call; the PA residents are bitching about it. I don't have a horse in the race, and I think that it's utter bull-shit. He had full control of the ball.
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I don't have a horse in the race
Then STFU!
;D
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Because I've seen it happen against us. I'll be the first to say I hate replay and I wish they get rid of it but if they using it that's the right call.
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Honestly, I don't have any issue with Instant Replay, in any sport. Get it right.
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I only saw the last 5-6 minutes of the game (family Christmas party today), but catch or not, that loss is all on Roethlisberger. You simply cannot throw that ball at the end into triple coverage. Once no one got open right away, throw it away, kick the FG, and go to OT. Of course, I thought they should have gone for it on 4th at 1 with just over 2 minutes ago to win the game right there, but what a surprise that Mr. Aggressive Mike Tomlin wimped out and punted. Because punting and hoping your D will stop Tom Brady when it counts has worked so well for teams over the years. :lol :lol
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Congrats to the Pats. That was an amazing game by both teams.
Having said that, I still believe the Pats are the best team in the league, but I also believe that the Steelers are very capable of competing with them and beating them in the future. That's not something that I could have said in recent years. The playoffs should/could be very interesting.
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it's too bad that Brown got injured. He's one hell of a player.
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The Calvin Johnson 'non catch' when all this crap of 'no one knows what a catch is anymore' started.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq2ohfX_AzI (no bobble, two steps, an elbow and his behind touching the field....)
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I'm amazed people even question it. The ball was bobbling while it was on the ground, FFS.
Not sure what you define "bobbling", but I certainly wouldn't see it that way. His left hand rolled over the ball, while his right was still mostly underneath it. So, I guess for the NFL, the definition of a catch is "2 palms on the ball"? Just because the back of his hand was on the ball, that means it's not a catch? His knee and elbow were down when he crossed the plane of the goal-line. Why then does it matter what happens when the ball hits the ground? Where's the rule that "the ball can't cause a fumble"? If the ground can't cause a fumble, then it can't cause ANY loss of control. Doesn't the downed knee AND elbow give him control of the ball regardless of what the ground does AFTER that - IN THE ENDZONE?
Funny how the north-eastern members are validating the call; the PA residents are bitching about it. I don't have a horse in the race, and I think that it's utter bull-shit. He had full control of the ball.
The definition of a catch is that you have to maintain control throughout, including contact with the ground. He didn't control the ball when it hit the ground. Not a catch.
And no, the knee and elbow down don't give him control. Controlling the ball gives him control. The knee and elbow make him down, if control is established. It was not.
For the record, I'm not fond of this "what is a catch" shit anymore than anybody else. Megatron scored the game winning TD, IMO. But the genie's out of the bottle now. Since the networks are going to show 9 angles after every catch, do we want to just go back to "looked like a catch to me. Touchdown!"? There's the ability to get calls right now and that's what needs to be fixed.
One thing I do like is that the decisions are made in NY now. Gives multiple refs a good opportunity to look at it, discuss, make the right call, along with the refs on the field.
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Yeah, I remember that Megatron catch, which was total bull-shit. And you're right EB, the genie is out of the bottle. But again, how did it look like James lost control yesterday - because his right hand was still under the ball, and his left hand rolled over from palm-to-back. That constitutes a loss of control? The way I see it:
Exhibit A) a knee/elbow to be considered a catch when at the sideline (assuming a player keeps "control")
Exhibit B) when the ball crosses the plane of the goal-line and subsequently becomes dislodged (ie, they lose control even 1" after crossing the line), it's a TD
BUT... when a player makes a good catch with 2 steps and/or elbow/knee down at the goal-line, then "loses/bobbles" it when he hits the ground, it's not a catch.
A is a catch; B) is possession, but A+B is not?
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Congrats to the Pats. That was an amazing game by both teams.
Having said that, I still believe the Pats are the best team in the league, but I also believe that the Steelers are very capable of competing with them and beating them in the future. That's not something that I could have said in recent years. The playoffs should/could be very interesting.
I agree. After the emotion of how the game ended, this is my biggest takeaway. I'm clearly on record in this thread as a Steeler fan, I'm also clearly on record in this thread as saying that I don't think the Steelers can beat the Pats. After yesterday, I have hope, which is something I didn't have before. I think this Steeler team is totally capable of beating the Pats in the Playoffs, especially if they have their MVP playing the whole game. Before yesterday, I couldn't have said that.
Also - jingle is totally right - James should have had a TD there, and honestly I'm still not sure how they overturned that call. Specifically, James caught the ball, made a football move by turning and throwing his body toward the goal line, and crossed the line. Period. Even if the bobble mattered, he kept one hand under the ball at all times and never lost control.
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I believe the football move has to be steps. It he catches and dives the receiver has to maintain control throughout the catch including the ground. That's why when a running back goes down and the ground causes a fumble it's a dead ball.
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I believe the football move has to be steps. It he catches and dives the receiver has to maintain control throughout the catch including the ground. That's why when a running back goes down and the ground causes a fumble it's a dead ball.
Does it? Then why don't they use verbage in the rule that simply says steps? Why use a weird term like football move? Even still, if that is the case, James did more than enough to maintain possession of that ball when he went down to the ground. Especially since the call on the field was a TD, I'm still very surprised they saw enough to over turn it.
Oh also - an interesting note on what happened after that. Apparently, Ben was calling the play on the field, and was telling everyone to "clock it" meaning he wanted to down the ball, stop the clock, breath, and then either set up a play to go for it or kick the field goal to send it into OT. As Ben was doing this - the coaches on the sideline were yelling "don't clock it". So half the dudes on the team thought Ben was spiking it on that play that got picked.
Unreal incompetency. I've said it before, but Tomlin and Haley drive me insane. Ben was totally in the right with his line of thinking. Now that all said, Ben shouldn't have thrown that ball where he did, he should have just thrown it away, but the dude shouldn't have been put in that position to begin with...
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I believe the football move has to be steps. It he catches and dives the receiver has to maintain control throughout the catch including the ground. That's why when a running back goes down and the ground causes a fumble it's a dead ball.
I see your point, but still think it's BS. A knee/elbow is the qualifying "football move" at the sideline. Why isn't it the qualifying move at the goal-line?
Regardless, I still think the NFL has a very ... fluid ... definition of "control". If James only had one hand on the ball (his bottom hand), would it have been a catch? If the answer is "yes", then why does the position of his top hand (palm vs back of the hand) deem he lost control of the ball. That's the real point here (now that I've read the rule that someone posted)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRSh7ZYXUAEZPgJ.jpg)
It's the very last sentence... *if* he loses control, *and* the ball touches the ground. I guess I just never saw him losing control of the ball just because his top hand rolled over the ball.
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I do too guys. I think replay blows.
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I do too guys. I think replay blows.
Replay is fine if they get it right. And replay should be fore egregious instances where the call on the field was wrong.
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I do too guys. I think replay blows.
Replay is fine if they get it right. And replay should be fore egregious instances where the call on the field was wrong.
Well then by the rule you posted above he did not maintain control when his arms hit the ground and the ball in fact moved and hit the ground. That is an incomplete pass.
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I do too guys. I think replay blows.
Replay is fine if they get it right. And replay should be fore egregious instances where the call on the field was wrong.
Well then by the rule you posted above he did not maintain control when his arms hit the ground and the ball in fact moved and hit the ground. That is an incomplete pass.
That's the issue. "Control" is far too ambigous. I've explained clearly my belief as to why he *did* have control. Why is it that you feel he *did not* have control?
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I do not feel that way. The rules do. A receiver has to have full control of the ball going down to the ground unless he is in a running position after the catch. What everybody gets confused about is how many steps constitutes control. he turned as he caught it never making a running motion so he had to have control when hitting the ground. He did not.
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If we want to bitch about the rule then I'll join in. I don't like catches being broken down into 12 components that require German scientists to measure. However, based on the rule now it was very definitely incomplete, and Blandino and Periera have both been pretty clear on why the call was correct. He can't be down until he has possession. He can't have possession until he completes the catch.
The Dallas game was a hoot. After making one of the stupidest PIs you'll ever see Dallas deserved to lose that game. If you're in perfect position to make a play for the ball don't mug the receiver. It's completely unnecessary. I started rooting for Oakland after that. The only way I'd want Dallas to win that game is if the Raiders did something even more stupid. And boy did they.
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So many teams throwing up on themselves at the end of games this year.
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I do not feel that way. The rules do. A receiver has to have full control of the ball going down to the ground unless he is in a running position after the catch. What everybody gets confused about is how many steps constitutes control. he turned as he caught it never making a running motion so he had to have control when hitting the ground. He did not.
For one final time, I agree with you on everything except the losing control part. The rules don't specifically define "control", so "control" is a matter of opinion / subjective. I don't see how he lost control of the ball. Both hands on the ball at all times? Check. One of those hands *under* the ball? Check. The rule is losing control *and* the ball hitting the ground. He didn't appear to lose control of the ball imo.
I recognize that my original argument (the football "move") is incorrect now according to the rule. But the matter of "control" is one I'm failing to grasp. I wish someone would be explicit on HOW he lost control of the ball, rather than just saying it happened.
Where's Stadler when you need him? :lol
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The bobble has remained consistent for decades, long before Calvin Johnson. If the ball is moving around in your hands you don't have control. That was the case yesterday.
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:lol
I don't think it's that hard. You control the ball and if the ground causes the ball to juggle in your hands, then you've lost control of the ball and it's an incomplete. If you hit the ground and you do not lose control of the ball, it's complete.
SEE, THIS IS WHAT SLOW MOTION, HD HAS DONE TO US!! :lol :lol :lol
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I do not feel that way. The rules do. A receiver has to have full control of the ball going down to the ground unless he is in a running position after the catch. What everybody gets confused about is how many steps constitutes control. he turned as he caught it never making a running motion so he had to have control when hitting the ground. He did not.
For one final time, I agree with you on everything except the losing control part. The rules don't specifically define "control", so "control" is a matter of opinion / subjective. I don't see how he lost control of the ball. Both hands on the ball at all times? Check. One of those hands *under* the ball? Check. The rule is losing control *and* the ball hitting the ground. He didn't appear to lose control of the ball imo.
I recognize that my original argument (the football "move") is incorrect now according to the rule. But the matter of "control" is one I'm failing to grasp. I wish someone would be explicit on HOW he lost control of the ball, rather than just saying it happened.
Where's Stadler when you need him? :lol
I'm backing jingles posts in this thread so hard.
I think you hit the nail on the head here - "control" is totally subjective and needs better defined, because based on what I (and many others saw) James had total control of the ball.
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The bobble has remained consistent for decades, long before Calvin Johnson. If the ball is moving around in your hands you don't have control. That was the case yesterday.
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It's refreshing to discuss football on a forum where everyone isn't hateful, spiteful, and vindictive.
This game . . . the narrative everyone is in a huge rush to forget is that Ben outplayed Brady the whole game, without Brown, against a much better secondary and better pass rush, better rating, third downs, TD-int ratio, everything, and if that a-hole Sean Davis had HELD ON TO FRIGGIN BALL on what would have been Brady's 2nd interception or if Jesse James HAD HELD ON TO THE FRIGGIN BALL we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But of course they didn't hold on, so the narrative changes quickly. Does anyone remember that beautiful fake-spike TD to Brown last year against Dallas? Well, we didn't have Brown, so if you're Todd Haley do you:
1. Spike the ball and draw up a play for Le'Veon friggin Bell?
2. Spike the ball and draw up a play for Smith-Schuster or Bryant?
or 3. rush the play and have it go to Eli Rogers?
If you selected option 3 you now qualify to be the OC for Pittsburgh. Of course, Ben should have spiked it anyway or checked out of the play. There would not have been such a need to rush if JJSS had gone out of bounds on that long pass btw.
And yeah not doubling Gronk :facepalm:
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That was a tough play to make the interception with the ball tipped.
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It's refreshing to discuss football on a forum where everyone isn't hateful, spiteful, and vindictive.
This game . . . the narrative everyone is in a huge rush to forget is that Ben outplayed Brady the whole game, without Brown, against a much better secondary and better pass rush, better rating, third downs, TD-int ratio, everything, and if that a-hole Sean Davis had HELD ON TO FRIGGIN BALL on what would have been Brady's 2nd interception or if Jesse James HAD HELD ON TO THE FRIGGIN BALL we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But of course they didn't hold on, so the narrative changes quickly. Does anyone remember that beautiful fake-spike TD to Brown last year against Dallas? Well, we didn't have Brown, so if you're Todd Haley do you:
1. Spike the ball and draw up a play for Le'Veon friggin Bell?
2. Spike the ball and draw up a play for Smith-Schuster or Bryant?
or 3. rush the play and have it go to Eli Rogers?
If you selected option 3 you now qualify to be the OC for Pittsburgh. Of course, Ben should have spiked it anyway or checked out of the play. There would not have been such a need to rush if JJSS had gone out of bounds on that long pass btw.
And yeah not doubling Gronk :facepalm:
Totally with you on the Haley thing. Like I posted before, apparently Ben was running up to the line wanting to spike it, and Haley was yelling at him not to...Clearly, he should have just ignored the OC and done it anyway.
The Sean Davis thing was hard to watch. Not only watching him watch a ball go through his hands, but also watching Gronk literally tear him up all day, especially down the stretch. At times, it looked like someone on the JV team trying to guard the stud senior. The Steelers have got to figure out something better for that particular matchup.
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The bobble has remained consistent for decades, long before Calvin Johnson. If the ball is moving around in your hands you don't have control. That was the case yesterday.
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I have no idea why you can't get that. If you're bobbling the ball you do not have control, and therefore possession. It's always been that way. We look at these things every game when somebody catches the ball along the sideline. The two feet don't count until the ball stops moving in his hands. This isn't anything novel.
In any case, you've got two former heads of officiating telling you the ruling was correct, and Skip Bayless bitching and moaning about the Steelers getting "robbed." That should settle it for just about anybody outside of the most diehard Pittsburgers.
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so if you're Todd Haley do you:
1. Spike the ball and draw up a play for Le'Veon friggin Bell?
2. Spike the ball and draw up a play for Smith-Schuster or Bryant?
or 3. rush the play and have it go to Eli Rogers?
If you selected option 3 you now qualify to be the OC for Pittsburgh. Of course, Ben should have spiked it anyway or checked out of the play. There would not have been such a need to rush if JJSS had gone out of bounds on that long pass btw.
Well...option #3 was far superior to options 1 and 2. The interception happened on third down. If Ben had spiked the ball, the only sane option on fourth down would have been to kick a field goal and tie the game, not run a run or pass play that could easily have resulted in the Steelers not scoring and turning over the ball on downs. Spiking the ball and kicking a field goal was the safe way to go. Trying a pass was not a terrible idea, but they had to run a play that either scored or resulted in an incomplete pass, and the "fake spike" crossing route was a terrible call. According to Ben's story, he was yelling "clock it," but he heard in his helmet speaker that the sideline was telling him not to do so. Rodney Harrison called BS on that explanation, so who knows.
Of course, Derek Carr decided to outdo Ben for "dumb play at the end of the game" honors. Any time the Raiders lose, it's a good thing.
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In any case, you've got two former heads of officiating telling you the ruling was correct, and Skip Bayless bitching and moaning about the Steelers getting "robbed." That should settle it for just about anybody outside of the most diehard Pittsburgers.
:rollin Fair point, though I'm hardly a die-hard Steeler - I'm no Steeler or Pats fan. I really don't care who won (in fact, it did me a solid in possibly going 16-0 on in the Pick 'Em). But just because two former heads of officials say they got the ruling correct, doesn't mean it was the right call. I guess it fits their interpretation of the rule.
I'm not trying to convince anyone *I'm* right... I'm looking for someone to explain HOW he lost control of the ball. I've demonstrated how I can adjust my opinion (based on my first argument as to why it should've been a completion). So, help me adjust my opinion. Someone please explain how he lost control of the ball. I've only asked it 3-4 times already.
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Going back a long, long time ago on a late TD pass involving the St. Louis Cardinals against DC. The receiver 'caught' the ball, came down on both feet, was immediately hit, the ball fell to the ground, the refs huddled for a couple of minutes, and awarded the TD because 'both feet came down in the endzone'. I think it cost the Cards a playoff spot.
I wish we could go back to those days....regardless of who we're rooting for.
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Well...option #3 was far superior to options 1 and 2. The interception happened on third down. If Ben had spiked the ball, the only sane option on fourth down would have been to kick a field goal and tie the game, not run a run or pass play that could easily have resulted in the Steelers not scoring and turning over the ball on downs. Spiking the ball and kicking a field goal was the safe way to go. Trying a pass was not a terrible idea, but they had to run a play that either scored or resulted in an incomplete pass, and the "fake spike" crossing route was a terrible call. According to Ben's story, he was yelling "clock it," but he heard in his helmet speaker that the sideline was telling him not to do so. Rodney Harrison called BS on that explanation, so who knows.
Of course, Derek Carr decided to outdo Ben for "dumb play at the end of the game" honors. Any time the Raiders lose, it's a good thing.
Kicking the field goal and heading to OT seems like a better option in hindsight, doesn't it?
Also - to the bolded - knowing the personalities involved, I totally believe what Ben said was true. Ben, especially in recent years, has always been over-the-top blunt in his honesty and also historically has had no issue blaming himself for loses when appropriate to do so. On the flip, Haley has a history of stupid, horrible, dumb, etc...play calls.
So for that to be BS, Ben and Haley would have had to have both just changed drastically and magically at the same time.
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I'm not trying to convince anyone *I'm* right... I'm looking for someone to explain HOW he lost control of the ball. I've demonstrated how I can adjust my opinion (based on my first argument as to why it should've been a completion). So, help me adjust my opinion. Someone please explain how he lost control of the ball. I've only asked it 3-4 times already.
Pay attention just as the ball hit's the ground. His left hand comes completely off the ball. The ball spins a good 110° on top of his right hand. As it hits the ground his right hand doesn't move but the ball moves up and back into his chest and turns back a few degrees so you can see the laces again. He clearly doesn't control the ball when it hit's the ground. At no point in the last 30 years would this be considered a catch.
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--EsFk3GHw--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/qwnj7cj3x72zi2cgfyb5.gif)
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First, thank you for finding the perfect .gif! I must've watched this angle a dozen times trying to "get it" last night.
Second, what your saying is that control=two palms on the ball. :heybaby:
I see what you're selling, but I just ain't buying it. If the rule was "loses control of the ball *or* the ball comes in contact with the ground", I'm with ya - because part of the ball does touch the ground. His left PALM comes off the ball, but he always maintains contact with it in both hands, which to me constitutes "control".
We shall agree not to see eye to eye on this.
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I'm not trying to convince anyone *I'm* right... I'm looking for someone to explain HOW he lost control of the ball. I've demonstrated how I can adjust my opinion (based on my first argument as to why it should've been a completion). So, help me adjust my opinion. Someone please explain how he lost control of the ball. I've only asked it 3-4 times already.
Pay attention just as the ball hit's the ground. His left hand comes completely off the ball. The ball spins a good 110° on top of his right hand. As it hits the ground his right hand doesn't move but the ball moves up and back into his chest and turns back a few degrees so you can see the laces again. He clearly doesn't control the ball when it hit's the ground. At no point in the last 30 years would this be considered a catch.
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--EsFk3GHw--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/qwnj7cj3x72zi2cgfyb5.gif)
Completely outside voice here. Didn't watch the game, didn't see the play until this exact gif. But right there is enough evidence. He DID NOT control the ball through to the ground and it is not a catch.
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First, thank you for finding the perfect .gif! I must've watched this angle a dozen times trying to "get it" last night.
Second, what your saying is that control=two palms on the ball. :heybaby:
I see what you're selling, but I just ain't buying it. If the rule was "loses control of the ball *or* the ball comes in contact with the ground", I'm with ya - because part of the ball does touch the ground. His left PALM comes off the ball, but he always maintains contact with it in both hands, which to me constitutes "control".
We shall agree not to see eye to eye on this.
Don't know what to tell you. You can see the ball move in 2 axis and rotate along the third, all independent of what his hands are doing. This is a pretty clear cut example of not controlling the football. At no point in the history of the league would this have been a catch, assuming of course the ref actually saw the ball move around like that.
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It's incredible that 2 posts in a row can look at the same clip and have two opposite, firm reactions.
I think that speaks to jingles earlier point about the rule being subjective, which is an issue.
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It's incredible that 2 posts in a row can look at the same clip and have two opposite, firm reactions.
I think that speaks to jingles earlier point about the rule being subjective, which is an issue.
I think it just speaks to Jingle being wrong, which also has a decades long standard behind it. :D
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I am only judging from this gif as well (I stopped watching the NFL after week 5 or so when it was clear the Giants were shit) but I think we all see it's a catch from our own personal feelings of catching a ball, but the NFL has a rule about controlling the ball to the ground and it looks like there's some clear questions (if not clear evidence) that he didn't control the ball the full way to the ground. Really tough call.
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It's incredible that 2 posts in a row can look at the same clip and have two opposite, firm reactions.
I think that speaks to jingles earlier point about the rule being subjective, which is an issue.
I think it just speaks to Jingle being wrong, which also has a decades long standard behind it. :D
:lol
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Edit .... Ninja'd 5 times. This is in response to Nick's view.
Why? Because he literally (ignore the NFL rules) did not have control of the ball, or because that's what the NFL has conditioned us to believe? IMO, he was in full control of the ball - it rotated because of the angle his elbow hit the ground, but he still kept the ball fully within his possession. I don't think the ground aided in him keeping control.
As I said, it may have been the right ruling, but that doesn't mean it was the right call. For the past few years there's been lots of inconsistencies as to what is possession/control, and what isn't.
Marc nailed it. Looks like a catch, smells like a catch, probably tastes like a catch .... but not to the NFL. I get that my opinion is incorrect on the matter, but it doesn't mean it's any less valid.
In the NFL, if it's not a *perfect* catch, then it's not a catch.
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Jim Rome on his CBS Sports Minute today: "How's this for a rule? Dude catches the ball, it's a CATCH." :lol
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It's incredible that 2 posts in a row can look at the same clip and have two opposite, firm reactions.
I think that speaks to jingles earlier point about the rule being subjective, which is an issue.
I don't see subjectivity there. I see an attempt to make the decisions objective. "Looks like a catch" is subjective. "Looks like a catch but it bobbled 12 ways from Sunday when it hit the ground" is the objective interpretation. What I see is a very understandable frustration that it takes a rocket scientist to understand what is and is not a catch anymore.
(Along with some butthurt from Steelers fans, and a media desperately trying to create things to talk about.)
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It's incredible that 2 posts in a row can look at the same clip and have two opposite, firm reactions.
I think that speaks to jingles earlier point about the rule being subjective, which is an issue.
I don't see subjectivity there. I see an attempt to make the decisions objective. "Looks like a catch" is subjective. "Looks like a catch but it bobbled 12 ways from Sunday when it hit the ground" is the objective interpretation. What I see is a very understandable frustration that it takes a rocket scientist to understand what is and is not a catch anymore.
(Along with some butthurt from Steelers fans, and a media desperately trying to create things to talk about.)
Ah, I guess I fall into the butthurt category, so I'll just bow out of the conversation in that case.
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It's incredible that 2 posts in a row can look at the same clip and have two opposite, firm reactions.
I think that speaks to jingles earlier point about the rule being subjective, which is an issue.
I don't see subjectivity there. I see an attempt to make the decisions objective. "Looks like a catch" is subjective. "Looks like a catch but it bobbled 12 ways from Sunday when it hit the ground" is the objective interpretation. What I see is a very understandable frustration that it takes a rocket scientist to understand what is and is not a catch anymore.
(Along with some butthurt from Steelers fans, and a media desperately trying to create things to talk about.)
Ah, I guess I fall into the butthurt category, so I'll just bow out of the conversation in that case.
Nah, you've been pretty reasonable. I'm referring to the troves of dipshits who think the NFL is rigged in favor of the Patriots. As I've said before, if you think this the WWF and games are predetermined or refs fix the games, then you shouldn't even bother watching.
Hey, Jingle, which is it? Refs fucked up, refs correctly applied a stupid rule, or the game is rigged?
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In the NFL, if it's not a... catch, then it's not a catch.
I'd argue that is closer to the truth. It's not that it wasn't a perfect catch, it simply wasn't a catch.
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Nah, you've been pretty reasonable. I'm referring to the troves of dipshits who think the NFL is rigged in favor of the Patriots. As I've said before, if you think this the WWF and games are predetermined or refs fix the games, then you shouldn't even bother watching.
Hey, Jingle, which is it? Refs fucked up, refs correctly applied a stupid rule, or the game is rigged?
I cracked the Barto Code! ;D
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I totally think refs can and do have bias and it shows in their officiating, but I don't think this was a call made for the sake of the Pats or anything like that though. I think the NFL refs are much better then college refs in letting their bias get in the way. (and much better than the NBA).
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Hey, Jingle, which is it? Refs fucked up, refs correctly applied a stupid rule, or the game is rigged?
I think my position is they correctly applied a rule that can be interpreted more than one way. Right or wrong (I believe it is wrong) the NFL / Refs have deemed any change in ball position as a lack of "control". I think that's wrong. Look, some rules are (and should be) open to interpretation. How many times have we all seen a hold / PI / hands to the face / intentional grounding etc... that wasn't called. Hell, Unsportsmanlike is 100% judgment. Maybe it was missed, but I have no doubt just as many times it was the opinion of the official watching it that it wasn't a penalty. Some things are objectively black and white - did the toe hit the sideline, did the ball cross the plane of the goal-line, did the ball go thru the upright? Many rules have at least some element of judgment. I think the NFL's assertion of what is deemed "control" of a catch and what isn't is getting too ... controlled. :lol
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If we want to bitch about the rule then I'll join in. I don't like catches being broken down into 12 components that require German scientists to measure. However, based on the rule now it was very definitely incomplete, and Blandino and Periera have both been pretty clear on why the call was correct. He can't be down until he has possession. He can't have possession until he completes the catch.
The Dallas game was a hoot. After making one of the stupidest PIs you'll ever see Dallas deserved to lose that game. If you're in perfect position to make a play for the ball don't mug the receiver. It's completely unnecessary. I started rooting for Oakland after that. The only way I'd want Dallas to win that game is if the Raiders did something even more stupid. And boy did they.
Actually, it was all on Carr. I LMFAO! :lol
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this TD catch in Super Bowl 12 wouldn't have been ruled a catch today...
:30 second mark....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8ad3pDqFO4
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I think the NFL's assertion of what is deemed "control" of a catch and what isn't is getting too ... controlled. :lol
this may be true and seems due to the ability of replay to make plays that used to be "bang bang" into some sort of science. I think we are all glad the replay has helped make calls correct, but such granular detail has lead to such a hard time in determining such basic things as catching a ball. Then add in a sport that's so competitive that games can come down to such calls, and you have a nice mix for some uproar from fans. If I was a Steelers fan, I think I'd be pissed at that call, but as a non fan here, it seems to have been correct.
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He clearly did not have control when he fell all the way to the ground. However, his knee was clearly down well before that and he had control at that point. I think 95% of the time that's called a non-catch in today's league, but I think you can make compelling case for why it should have been a catch.
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this TD catch in Super Bowl 12 wouldn't have been ruled a catch today...
:30 second mark....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8ad3pDqFO4
And who even knows if The Immaculate Reception was even a completion!
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this TD catch in Super Bowl 12 wouldn't have been ruled a catch today...
:30 second mark....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8ad3pDqFO4
Nope. Not a catch today. And how bout that pass from The House. That was pretty slick. I remember the day, but not the game. We were outside playing football ourselves. Great weather.
Like I said before, the genie is out of the bottle. If we're going to subject completions to the scrutiny of instant replay we need to have clear definitions of what a catch is. Sadly it's gotten too convoluted now, but that's the way things go when you have to define things where people depend on the outcome. Just ask a lawyer. Christ, Moses showed up with 10 simple rules, and over time they've been parsed and nuanced to such a degree that now we just make them up as we go. Same way the Constitution has evolved into 54 freaking books of law.
In this case, contrary to Jingle, I think control is something that actually is pretty clearly understood and recognized. "A football move" is a subjective, man-made construct. Controlling the ball is pretty straightforward.
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I'm looking for someone to explain HOW he lost control of the ball. . . . Someone please explain how he lost control of the ball.
Kinda hard to do without watching a replay at the same time, but when the ball hit the ground while in the receiver's hands, it came loose. It's pretty evident from watching replays, and if you were to watch a recording of the actual broadcast, you can hear the moment when the color commentator (Romo?) realized why the review was taking so long. They broadcasters initially thought they were confirming that the ball had crossed the goal line before the defender touched the receiver. There is a moment where the commentator says, "OOHHH!" Hitting the ground caused the receiver to lose control, which makes it an incomplete pass.
Well...option #3 was far superior to options 1 and 2. The interception happened on third down. If Ben had spiked the ball, the only sane option on fourth down would have been to kick a field goal and tie the game, not run a run or pass play that could easily have resulted in the Steelers not scoring and turning over the ball on downs. Spiking the ball and kicking a field goal was the safe way to go. Trying a pass was not a terrible idea, but they had to run a play that either scored or resulted in an incomplete pass, and the "fake spike" crossing route was a terrible call. According to Ben's story, he was yelling "clock it," but he heard in his helmet speaker that the sideline was telling him not to do so. Rodney Harrison called BS on that explanation, so who knows.
Of course, Derek Carr decided to outdo Ben for "dumb play at the end of the game" honors. Any time the Raiders lose, it's a good thing.
Kicking the field goal and heading to OT seems like a better option in hindsight, doesn't it?
Honestly, I'd say no. There were two basic options: (1) spike the ball and kick a field goal; or (2) run a play and try to score a touchdown and then kick a field goal if it doesn't work. Obviously, the spike and kick option is the safer option, but that doesn't necessarily make it the better option, and running a play isn't necessarily a bad option solely because, in this particular instance, it resulted in an interception.
This reminds me of the end of Super Bowl 36. The Patriots got the ball on their own 17 with 1:21 remaining, and I always remember John Madden yelling about how the Patriots should just run out the clock and play for overtime because that was the "safe" thing to do. I remember thinking at the time that it was a stupid idea to leave it up to a coin toss whether the #1 offense in football would have a chance to move the ball 50 yards to set up a game winning field goal.
In the case of yesterday's game, no one would have faulted the Steelers for going with the spike and kick option. However, there was nothing inherently wrong with trying an intelligent pass play, but the play they ran was designed for failure. The Patriots didn't fall for the "fake spike," and none of the other Pittsburgh receivers ran routes, so the guy who was the intended target was by himself in a sea of Patriots defenders. Whether it was Ben's fault or the coach's fault or some combination of the two is beside the point as far as I'm concerned.
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this TD catch in Super Bowl 12 wouldn't have been ruled a catch today...
:30 second mark....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8ad3pDqFO4
Why you gotta bring that pain back? That catch made 10-year old me very sad.... :sad:
He clearly did not have control when he fell all the way to the ground. However, his knee was clearly down well before that and he had control at that point. I think 95% of the time that's called a non-catch in today's league, but I think you can make compelling case for why it should have been a catch.
His knee being down was irrelevant since he had not been contacted by a defender. I agree with El Barto that this wouldn't have been called a catch any time in at least the last 15 years.
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Honestly, I'd say no. There were two basic options: (1) spike the ball and kick a field goal; or (2) run a play and try to score a touchdown and then kick a field goal if it doesn't work. Obviously, the spike and kick option is the safer option, but that doesn't necessarily make it the better option, and running a play isn't necessarily a bad option solely because, in this particular instance, it resulted in an interception.
This reminds me of the end of Super Bowl 36. The Patriots got the ball on their own 17 with 1:21 remaining, and I always remember John Madden yelling about how the Patriots should just run out the clock and play for overtime because that was the "safe" thing to do. I remember thinking at the time that it was a stupid idea to leave it up to a coin toss whether the #1 offense in football would have a chance to move the ball 50 yards to set up a game winning field goal.
In the case of yesterday's game, no one would have faulted the Steelers for going with the spike and kick option. However, there was nothing inherently wrong with trying an intelligent pass play, but the play they ran was designed for failure. The Patriots didn't fall for the "fake spike," and none of the other Pittsburgh receivers ran routes, so the guy who was the intended target was by himself in a sea of Patriots defenders. Whether it was Ben's fault or the coach's fault or some combination of the two is beside the point as far as I'm concerned.
I don't think Ben's play was dumb, but it was definitely a mistake. When he didn't have a receiver open he should have thrown it to the guy in 113, Row X, Seat 37. A fake spike might well have worked, though probably not against NE, and cost only a couple of seconds to try. Good idea poorly executed, I think.
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The play on 2nd down was just as bad. Why are you throwing it to a guy running a short cross, who has no shot of scoring or getting out of bounds? That led to the hurried 3rd down and then Roethlisberger panicking and making the bonehead play of the year.
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He clearly did not have control when he fell all the way to the ground. However, his knee was clearly down well before that and he had control at that point. I think 95% of the time that's called a non-catch in today's league, but I think you can make compelling case for why it should have been a catch.
His knee was down but was untouched. Therefore, still in play.
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Oh, and how did it take Romo and Nantz like two minutes to realize that if the play was a catch or not was what was being reviewed? Remember the Dez Bryant play? Romo was the QB on that damn play!! He should recognized that right away as a similar type play.
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He clearly did not have control when he fell all the way to the ground. However, his knee was clearly down well before that and he had control at that point. I think 95% of the time that's called a non-catch in today's league, but I think you can make compelling case for why it should have been a catch.
His knee was down but was untouched. Therefore, still in play.
Right, and it didn't matter that his knee was down. That doesn't end the play. His body has to come down with control.
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I don't think Ben's play was dumb, but it was definitely a mistake. When he didn't have a receiver open he should have thrown it to the guy in 113, Row X, Seat 37. A fake spike might well have worked, though probably not against NE, and cost only a couple of seconds to try. Good idea poorly executed, I think.
Running a play was a good (or not a bad) idea, but I'd say they play they ran was ill-conceived AND poorly executed.
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Living in Seattle, I sure can't relate to poor play calling and execution at the goal line in the last minute of an important game.
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And with that Chris.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x700q90/922/7znxxL.png) (https://imageshack.com/f/pm7znxxLp)
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:clap: :clap: :clap:
F'n awesome.
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(https://image.nj.com/home/njo-media/width620/img/giants_impact/photo/david-tyree-harrison-super-bowl-catch-4d06f3eef023f3a1.jpg)
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Kev, Kev. The 2 rings after have dulled that pain. :lol
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I still cannot believe that play was made. How Seymour didn't pull Eli down, I'll never know.
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He clearly did not have control when he fell all the way to the ground. However, his knee was clearly down well before that and he had control at that point. I think 95% of the time that's called a non-catch in today's league, but I think you can make compelling case for why it should have been a catch.
His knee was down but was untouched. Therefore, still in play.
I didn't see that whole play, so I missed that. In that case it was clearly not a catch.
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The fact that there has been so much debate about this just shows how awful the rule is. The NFL is basically telling us not to believe what our eyes tell us. That was a catch in the NFL for decades until they decided to make that stupid rule.
The even dumber rule is this fumbling forward out of the end zone makes it a touchback and you lose possession. That is beyond retarded.
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Let me add that all the rules piled on with all these new rules makes it so much harder for the referees to actually call a game.
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Incredibly, tonight's game was a very good one. Atlanta should've cake-walked all over the Bucs, especially with the number of players in triage - before and during the game. The Falcon's D did not impress at all.
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If we want to bitch about the rule then I'll join in. I don't like catches being broken down into 12 components that require German scientists to measure. However, based on the rule now it was very definitely incomplete, and Blandino and Periera have both been pretty clear on why the call was correct. He can't be down until he has possession. He can't have possession until he completes the catch.
He completed the catch when he caught it and secured it with both hands. He fully had control of the ball with both hands. The fact that he bobbled it AFTER HE CROSSED THE GOAL LINE AND WAS DOWN is bizarre as the determining factor of whether he had "control." Thus, he had possession. Following that, he was down by knee and elbow, with the ball extended over the goal line. Again, the NFL turned it into a false construction where a catch somehow isn't a catch. I think Jingle's interpretation of the rule is the correct one. But the problem is, the rule IS subject to interpretation, and I think the interpretation is as wrong as wrong can be.
Jimmy G and Gould FTW!
I know it doesn't matter for shit this year, but I'm ready for next season!
Sure it matters. They don't have to be playoff bound for it to matter. I am really happy with how they are playing with G in at QB. My initial thoughts when they picked him up were that I did NOT want him playing this year because he would get crushed behind their nonexistent O line, nonexistent running game to take pressure off him, and nonexistent receiver corps to help him out. I have been pleasantly surprised at how he has elevated and been able to work with all three components.
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If we want to bitch about the rule then I'll join in. I don't like catches being broken down into 12 components that require German scientists to measure. However, based on the rule now it was very definitely incomplete, and Blandino and Periera have both been pretty clear on why the call was correct. He can't be down until he has possession. He can't have possession until he completes the catch.
He completed the catch when he caught it and secured it with both hands. He fully had control of the ball with both hands. The fact that he bobbled it AFTER HE CROSSED THE GOAL LINE AND WAS DOWN is bizarre as the determining factor of whether he had "control." Thus, he had possession. Following that, he was down by knee and elbow, with the ball extended over the goal line. Again, the NFL turned it into a false construction where a catch somehow isn't a catch. I think Jingle's interpretation of the rule is the correct one. But the problem is, the rule IS subject to interpretation, and I think the interpretation is as wrong as wrong can be.
Jimmy G and Gould FTW!
I know it doesn't matter for shit this year, but I'm ready for next season!
Sure it matters. They don't have to be playoff bound for it to matter. I am really happy with how they are playing with G in at QB. My initial thoughts when they picked him up were that I did NOT want him playing this year because he would get crushed behind their nonexistent O line, nonexistent running game to take pressure off him, and nonexistent receiver corps to help him out. I have been pleasantly surprised at how he has elevated and been able to work with all three components.
I know the following won't happen with a professional WR, but for comparison sake. Let's say a WR is in the middle of the endzone, jumps up and fully extends to make the catch. Has both hands on the ball, is clearly in the endzone, but then as he lands the jolt causes him to drop the ball. Is that a touchdown? I'd say clearly not since you need to have a catch to have a touchdown, and that's not a catch. Similar to this situation, there needs to be a completion to have a touchdown and I don't think there was a completion.
As for Jimmy G, I hear you, and I do fear that something might happen to him this year yet, but wins aside he has given the team hope, and he is highlighting exactly what problems were because of non-stellar QBs, and what problems now still exist. Plenty of money to work with so it really helps in knowing what to address going into next season.
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He completed the catch when he caught it and secured it with both hands. He fully had control of the ball with both hands. The fact that he bobbled it AFTER HE CROSSED THE GOAL LINE AND WAS DOWN is bizarre as the determining factor of whether he had "control." Thus, he had possession. Following that, he was down by knee and elbow, with the ball extended over the goal line.
But he caught the ball in the air and when he hit the ground it came loose. The knee down first and the goal line are irrelevant because the catch is incomplete. If this play was at the 50, there'd be no hubbub about it.
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If we want to bitch about the rule then I'll join in. I don't like catches being broken down into 12 components that require German scientists to measure. However, based on the rule now it was very definitely incomplete, and Blandino and Periera have both been pretty clear on why the call was correct. He can't be down until he has possession. He can't have possession until he completes the catch.
He completed the catch when he caught it and secured it with both hands. He fully had control of the ball with both hands. The fact that he bobbled it AFTER HE CROSSED THE GOAL LINE AND WAS DOWN is bizarre as the determining factor of whether he had "control." Thus, he had possession. Following that, he was down by knee and elbow, with the ball extended over the goal line. Again, the NFL turned it into a false construction where a catch somehow isn't a catch. I think Jingle's interpretation of the rule is the correct one. But the problem is, the rule IS subject to interpretation, and I think the interpretation is as wrong as wrong can be.
The rule isn't that you merely have to secure the ball for the microsecond you're down. The rule is that you have to complete the catch. He did not. He lost control when the ball hit the ground and that's never been a catch. Even in the days before instant replay it wasn't a catch. If it's not a catch then when he crossed the goal line doesn't matter since he never officially had possession.
As I said, we can bitch about the "completing the catch" rule all we want, though I consider it a necessity at this point. I don't see any basis whatsoever to argue about the application of the rule in this instance. Neither do the people who understand the rule better than any of us.
It amazes me that people can see the ball clearly move around as it hits the ground and think it's a catch. I don't know what sport people have been watching for the last 30 years 'cause it sure ain't fucking football.
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He completed the catch when he caught it and secured it with both hands. He fully had control of the ball with both hands. The fact that he bobbled it AFTER HE CROSSED THE GOAL LINE AND WAS DOWN is bizarre as the determining factor of whether he had "control." Thus, he had possession. Following that, he was down by knee and elbow, with the ball extended over the goal line.
But he caught the ball in the air and when he hit the ground it came loose. The knee down first and the goal line are irrelevant because the catch is incomplete. If this play was at the 50, there'd be no hubbub about it.
Well, no. The first thing that hit the ground were his knee and elbow. So when "he hit the ground," it did NOT come loose. It came loose after he had already hit the ground, but his hand subsequently hit the ground as well.
It amazes me that people can see the ball clearly move around as it hits the ground and think it's a catch.
I'm not sure why it "amazes" you. In any other context, where a receiver controls the ball, and THEN the ball "clearly moves" when he hits the ground, the movement is irrelevant (and it if moves out of his hands, it is a fumble). I get that you disagree. But I find your incredulity a bit disingenuous.
I know the following won't happen with a professional WR, but for comparison sake. Let's say a WR is in the middle of the endzone, jumps up and fully extends to make the catch. Has both hands on the ball, is clearly in the endzone, but then as he lands the jolt causes him to drop the ball. Is that a touchdown? I'd say clearly not since you need to have a catch to have a touchdown, and that's not a catch. Similar to this situation, there needs to be a completion to have a touchdown and I don't think there was a completion.
Depends on how he lands. If the first thing to land in the endzone is his hands and the ball jars loose on impact, it's hard to argue that he had control. If he lands similar to how this one went, where his knee and elbow touch down, he has control, and only subsequently loses it when the bottom hand hits. That seems like "control" to me. But what do I know? I think there is a lot of subjectivity to "control" and the way it is being interpreted. The NFL is urging an interpretation that seems wrong. And that's fine. But they are also acting like it is objective, which it isn't. But I'm not going to continue to argue that one is "right." I see it differently. But it is what it is.
As for Jimmy G, I hear you, and I do fear that something might happen to him this year yet, but wins aside he has given the team hope, and he is highlighting exactly what problems were because of non-stellar QBs, and what problems now still exist. Plenty of money to work with so it really helps in knowing what to address going into next season.
I hope nothing happens to him. I think he has earned some serious contract money, but it will be interesting to see whether they give it to him right away or franchise him to spend money on some other pieces. It would be really cool if, similar to Stef and Durant on the Warriors, they talk to him and he agrees to take a franchise tag and less money this year so they can spend on getting lots of other pieces in place, and give him the big contract a year or two down the road. I thought Beathard was pretty good too. So with Jimmy G as starter and Beathard as backup, I actually think they are pretty set at QB and don't need to worry about picking somebody up in the draft. I think they should spend on O line and defense, and maybe pick up a decent 2nd or 3rd round RB of the future too if they can.
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He's still not down when his knee and elbow hit the ground because he was not touched by a defensive player.
Also when he dove for the catch and while diving he lunged forward does not constitute a football move. A move is a defined step after securing the ball which he did not do.
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But he caught the ball in the air and when he hit the ground it came loose. The knee down first and the goal line are irrelevant because the catch is incomplete. If this play was at the 50, there'd be no hubbub about it.
Well, no. The first thing that hit the ground were his knee and elbow. So when "he hit the ground," it did NOT come loose. It came loose after he had already hit the ground, but his hand subsequently hit the ground as well.
Just because his knee was the first body part to touch the ground, a catch is only a catch when it is secured by receiver through the full force of him falling. This is different than a runner whose knee touches the ground. He caught the ball in the air and lost control when he hit the ground. It's not like he caught it on the 5 and took 2 or 3 steps with it. The fact is, while in the air he does appear to have caught the ball, but when he ultimately comes down, he loses it. He cannot lose it when he hits the ground. If he hangs onto to the ball, it's a completion. If he does not, it's an incompletion. The fact that his first body part that touches the ground is his knee is irrelevant. remember, he's a receiver, not a runner.
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He's still not down when his knee and elbow hit the ground because he was not touched by a defensive player.
Okay, well even though I said I was done and wasn't going to debate... :lol ...the difference here is, when a player has the ball across the plane of the end zone, the play stops whether he is touched down or not. That's different than in the field of play. So I don't feel like the fact that he was touched should have any bearing on the discussion. I get Barto's (and the NFL's) interpretation of the rule, even if I disagree with it. But, respectfully, him not being touched has nothing to do with it either way.
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He's still not down when his knee and elbow hit the ground because he was not touched by a defensive player.
Okay, well even though I said I was done and wasn't going to debate... :lol ...the difference here is, when a player has the ball across the plane of the end zone, the play stops whether he is touched down or not. That's different than in the field of play. So I don't feel like the fact that he was touched should have any bearing on the discussion. I get Barto's (and the NFL's) interpretation of the rule, even if I disagree with it. But, respectfully, him not being touched has nothing to do with it either way.
Him not being touched does NOT have anything to do with it. That is correct.
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Just because his knee was the first body part to touch the ground, a catch is only a catch when it is secured by receiver through the full force of him falling. This is different than a runner whose knee touches the ground. He caught the ball in the air and lost control when he hit the ground. It's not like he caught it on the 5 and took 2 or 3 steps with it. The fact is, while in the air he does appear to have caught the ball, but when he ultimately comes down, he loses it. He cannot lose it when he hits the ground. If he hangs onto to the ball, it's a completion. If he does not, it's an incompletion. The fact that his first body part that touches the ground is his knee is irrelevant. remember, he's a receiver, not a runner.
Exactly. A runner already has control of the ball, so if they break the plane of the goal line, it's a touchdown. Catching a thrown ball is completely different, as the rule states that control has to be kept until the receiver follows through to the ground. The play doesn't stop with a knee or a lunge over the goal line. That's where the confusion is, since we're all conditioned to see a ball break the plane or someone's knee to go down and believe that the play is over.
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I hope nothing happens to him. I think he has earned some serious contract money, but it will be interesting to see whether they give it to him right away or franchise him to spend money on some other pieces. It would be really cool if, similar to Stef and Durant on the Warriors, they talk to him and he agrees to take a franchise tag and less money this year so they can spend on getting lots of other pieces in place, and give him the big contract a year or two down the road. I thought Beathard was pretty good too. So with Jimmy G as starter and Beathard as backup, I actually think they are pretty set at QB and don't need to worry about picking somebody up in the draft. I think they should spend on O line and defense, and maybe pick up a decent 2nd or 3rd round RB of the future too if they can.
I think Beathard will be an excellent backup, and agree no need to draft a QB. He was a rookie coming into a broken team, and 90% of QBs are going to falter under those circumstances. If they get pieces in place and something happens after G has already started off a confident season I think he can jump in and do a lot better.
O line is what jumps out to me as well as the most immediate need.
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He's still not down when his knee and elbow hit the ground because he was not touched by a defensive player.
Okay, well even though I said I was done and wasn't going to debate... :lol ...the difference here is, when a player has the ball across the plane of the end zone, the play stops whether he is touched down or not. That's different than in the field of play. So I don't feel like the fact that he was touched should have any bearing on the discussion. I get Barto's (and the NFL's) interpretation of the rule, even if I disagree with it. But, respectfully, him not being touched has nothing to do with it either way.
And this is where I think the rule is applied correctly, but they've blown the intent. He had control; he broke the plane of the goal-line; then the ball rotated in his grip as he hit the ground. I think there are different rules conflicting with one another, which has led to this badly worded rule that I posted. I think the rule should account for having control as you cross the goal line. It doesn't... but that wasn't my final and main argument. Control was. I don't see how he lost control of the ball. I see how the NFL has conditioned us to believe that the rotation was a loss of control, but by my eyes, he never lost control of it. That's my beef.
They apparently got the ruling right, but I don't believe it is the right call.
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He's still not down when his knee and elbow hit the ground because he was not touched by a defensive player.
Okay, well even though I said I was done and wasn't going to debate... :lol ...the difference here is, when a player has the ball across the plane of the end zone, the play stops whether he is touched down or not. That's different than in the field of play. So I don't feel like the fact that he was touched should have any bearing on the discussion. I get Barto's (and the NFL's) interpretation of the rule, even if I disagree with it. But, respectfully, him not being touched has nothing to do with it either way.
Him not being touched does NOT have anything to do with it. That is correct.
Then the knee and elbow to the ground means nothing. It wasn't that he hit the ground and then reached for the endzone. It was the same motion of him diving for the ball which is not a football move.
BTW bosk1, I hate instant replay. The problem is is the NFL has made this rule to be precise in the referees understand the rules and it's just us fans that are confused.
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He's still not down when his knee and elbow hit the ground because he was not touched by a defensive player.
Okay, well even though I said I was done and wasn't going to debate... :lol ...the difference here is, when a player has the ball across the plane of the end zone, the play stops whether he is touched down or not. That's different than in the field of play. So I don't feel like the fact that he was touched should have any bearing on the discussion. I get Barto's (and the NFL's) interpretation of the rule, even if I disagree with it. But, respectfully, him not being touched has nothing to do with it either way.
Him not being touched does NOT have anything to do with it. That is correct.
Then the knee and elbow to the ground means nothing. It wasn't that he hit the ground and then reached for the endzone. It was the same motion of him diving for the ball which is not a football move.
Right, it means nothing. As a receiver HE has to hit the ground, not simply his knee. It's not the same thing.
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He's still not down when his knee and elbow hit the ground because he was not touched by a defensive player.
Okay, well even though I said I was done and wasn't going to debate... :lol ...the difference here is, when a player has the ball across the plane of the end zone, the play stops whether he is touched down or not. That's different than in the field of play. So I don't feel like the fact that he was touched should have any bearing on the discussion. I get Barto's (and the NFL's) interpretation of the rule, even if I disagree with it. But, respectfully, him not being touched has nothing to do with it either way.
And this is where I think the rule is applied correctly, but they've blown the intent. He had control; he broke the plane of the goal-line; then the ball rotated in his grip as he hit the ground. I think there are different rules conflicting with one another, which has led to this badly worded rule that I posted. I think the rule should account for having control as you cross the goal line. It doesn't... but that wasn't my final and main argument. Control was. I don't see how he lost control of the ball. I see how the NFL has conditioned us to believe that the rotation was a loss of control, but by my eyes, he never lost control of it. That's my beef.
They apparently got the ruling right, but I don't believe it is the right call.
If this play had happened at the 50 yard line would it have been a catch?
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If this play had happened at the 50 yard line would it have been a catch?
If this play was at the 50, there'd be no hubbub about it.
NOPE!
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It amazes me that people can see the ball clearly move around as it hits the ground and think it's a catch. I don't know what sport people have been watching for the last 30 years 'cause it sure ain't fucking football.
I dont know, I can pretty easily see why people are disputing the call. It looks like the moment when his knee and elbow are down, the ball is secured and over the goal line. It's the next frames where the ball moves and its clear the catch wasn't fully completed, but there's that split second where all your senses are telling you that's a TD.
Besides the coming down fully part, there's also the "ball just needs to touch the goal line" part that just looks like it's so clearly a touchdown as well. Sort of like those plays where a RB holds the ball over the goal line right before he fumbles it but they still call it a TD because it crossed the plane just before he lost possession. The difference here is possession and I understand that the receiver did not have it, but I totally see why people think he did in that split second.
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So what do people think the league should do going forward? I honestly only see two options. Do away with instant replay altogether and leave it up to the refs to make calls. I don't really like this as it just makes the whole thing more subjective. Moreover, since the networks are continuing to improve their coverage, we're going to see more and more bullet-time replays, highlighting every time a ref bungles an important call. Then we'll be exposed to more and more whining from Romo and Gruden about how refs are ruining the game.
The other option it to keep replay, but that requires continuing to parse the rules. That's what got us into the current situation. If you're going to analyze a play in slo-mo you have to understand what it is you're trying to see. That makes the fans unhappy, "looked like a catch to me!", and it exposes us to more and more whining from Romo and Gruden about how the rules are ruining the game.
Is there a better, third option? Is there a way to make one of the other two better? What happens now?
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It amazes me that people can see the ball clearly move around as it hits the ground and think it's a catch. I don't know what sport people have been watching for the last 30 years 'cause it sure ain't fucking football.
I dont know, I can pretty easily see why people are disputing the call. It looks like the moment when his knee and elbow are down, the ball is secured and over the goal line. It's the next frames where the ball moves and its clear the catch wasn't fully completed, but there's that split second where all your senses are telling you that's a TD.
Besides the coming down fully part, there's also the "ball just needs to touch the goal line" part that just looks like it's so clearly a touchdown as well. Sort of like those plays where a RB holds the ball over the goal line right before he fumbles it but they still call it a TD because it crossed the plane just before he lost possession. The difference here is possession and I understand that the receiver did not have it, but I totally see why people think he did in that split second.
When it comes to a catch at the goalie the knee and elbow are not the end of the play. The receiver has to control the ball completely from the ground.
This is different than a running back who has control of the ball and has to only have the ball touch the goal line . A reception has to be fully in control after the fall to be considered a catch.
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HD replays has made these rules defined down to the millisecond move unfortunately. So it clouds us as fans on what is the correct ruling.
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So what do people think the league should do going forward? I honestly only see two options. Do away with instant replay altogether and leave it up to the refs to make calls. I don't really like this as it just makes the whole thing more subjective. Moreover, since the networks are continuing to improve their coverage, we're going to see more and more bullet-time replays, highlighting every time a ref bungles an important call. Then we'll be exposed to more and more whining from Romo and Gruden about how refs are ruining the game.
The other option it to keep replay, but that requires continuing to parse the rules. That's what got us into the current situation. If you're going to analyze a play in slo-mo you have to understand what it is you're trying to see. That makes the fans unhappy, "looked like a catch to me!", and it exposes us to more and more whining from Romo and Gruden about how the rules are ruining the game.
Is there a better, third option? Is there a way to make one of the other two better? What happens now?
I say keep doing it. Maybe shorten the timer if anything and work to make it more efficient as I see nothing wrong with trying to make the correct call however granular it may be, just don't make us wait forever is my only beef with it.
However, just heard on my local WFAN radio while grabbing lunch that Vince McMahon could bring back the XFL and implement all the things that people hate about the NFL right now :lol thought that was really dumb but that's only the jockeys talking, not sure there's anymore to it than that
When it comes to a catch at the goalie the knee and elbow are not the end of the play. The receiver has to control the ball completely from the ground.
This is different than a running back who has control of the ball and has to only have the ball touch the goal line . A reception has to be fully in control after the fall to be considered a catch.
Yes i understand that, but I can see why people just look at the image and think it's a TD and I understand why they feel that way even if it's not the correct call.
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HD replays has made these rules defined down to the millisecond move unfortunately. So it clouds us as fans on what is the correct ruling.
What exactly is clouded? The replay actually unclouds it. That’s the point of instant replay.
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As you can tell by the last few pages people do not understand the rule. Even though it's there to read it's hard for the average fan to understand.
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If we want to bitch about the rule then I'll join in. I don't like catches being broken down into 12 components that require German scientists to measure. However, based on the rule now it was very definitely incomplete, and Blandino and Periera have both been pretty clear on why the call was correct. He can't be down until he has possession. He can't have possession until he completes the catch.
He completed the catch when he caught it and secured it with both hands. He fully had control of the ball with both hands. The fact that he bobbled it AFTER HE CROSSED THE GOAL LINE AND WAS DOWN is bizarre as the determining factor of whether he had "control." Thus, he had possession. Following that, he was down by knee and elbow, with the ball extended over the goal line. Again, the NFL turned it into a false construction where a catch somehow isn't a catch. I think Jingle's interpretation of the rule is the correct one. But the problem is, the rule IS subject to interpretation, and I think the interpretation is as wrong as wrong can be.
The rule isn't that you merely have to secure the ball for the microsecond you're down. The rule is that you have to complete the catch. He did not. He lost control when the ball hit the ground and that's never been a catch. Even in the days before instant replay it wasn't a catch. If it's not a catch then when he crossed the goal line doesn't matter since he never officially had possession.
As I said, we can bitch about the "completing the catch" rule all we want, though I consider it a necessity at this point. I don't see any basis whatsoever to argue about the application of the rule in this instance. Neither do the people who understand the rule better than any of us.
It amazes me that people can see the ball clearly move around as it hits the ground and think it's a catch. I don't know what sport people have been watching for the last 30 years 'cause it sure ain't fucking football.
I have not been a part of this at all, but I've been reading and I have one problem: the bolded part above. "Even in the days before instant replay that would not have been a catch." Complete BS. The call on the field was that he MADE A CATCH. If there was no replay to watch to overturn, it would have remained that way.
I think I'm about to complain about something completely different, but here we go. If, at full speed, the refs call it catch, it should just stay that way, unless CHALLENGED BY THE OTHER TEAM. I have no real problem with replay, but to look at every scoring play is just dumbing down the game and making the refs job obsolete.
To me, that looks like a catch right up to the point where it moves a little bit. There's no bobble. It literally moves a little bit because it hits the ground. I get what the rule says and that it was called correctly for that reason. I would just like to live in a world where that's a catch.
*coming from a Pats fan*
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If this play had happened at the 50 yard line would it have been a catch?
I would say yes. Again, my main beef is on the NFL's interpretation of control. I don't think he ever lost control, and I don't think that the ground ever helped him gain control. If anything, the ground simply altered the control he had on the ball (the rotation of his left hand over the top of the ball).
If we're going to play the 'what if' game, how 'bout this one then... if he'd taken 2 steps then dove into the endzone ball first and the ground dislodged it, would that have been a completion/TD? Not sure it's the right comparison, as I think 2-steps are a "football move" but one knee+elbow is not - except at the sideline.
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Eli is pretty much spot on
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/giants-eli-manning-steelers-overturned-td-think-clear-catch-160128539.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/giants-eli-manning-steelers-overturned-td-think-clear-catch-160128539.html)
I really just think it comes down to that it flat out looks like a catch and the visual of it has everyone thinking it must be one.
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If this play had happened at the 50 yard line would it have been a catch?
I would say yes. Again, my main beef is on the NFL's interpretation of control. I don't think he ever lost control, and I don't think that the ground ever helped him gain control. If anything, the ground simply altered the control he had on the ball (the rotation of his left hand over the top of the ball).
If we're going to play the 'what if' game, how 'bout this one then... if he'd taken 2 steps then dove into the endzone ball first and the ground dislodged it, would that have been a completion/TD? Not sure it's the right comparison, as I think 2-steps are a "football move" but one knee+elbow is not - except at the sideline.
Not a great comparison. At that point you could have caught the ball at the 10 yard line or ran it from the 50 yard line. Control/completion was established, so at that point all you have to do it cross the line.
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If we want to bitch about the rule then I'll join in. I don't like catches being broken down into 12 components that require German scientists to measure. However, based on the rule now it was very definitely incomplete, and Blandino and Periera have both been pretty clear on why the call was correct. He can't be down until he has possession. He can't have possession until he completes the catch.
He completed the catch when he caught it and secured it with both hands. He fully had control of the ball with both hands. The fact that he bobbled it AFTER HE CROSSED THE GOAL LINE AND WAS DOWN is bizarre as the determining factor of whether he had "control." Thus, he had possession. Following that, he was down by knee and elbow, with the ball extended over the goal line. Again, the NFL turned it into a false construction where a catch somehow isn't a catch. I think Jingle's interpretation of the rule is the correct one. But the problem is, the rule IS subject to interpretation, and I think the interpretation is as wrong as wrong can be.
The rule isn't that you merely have to secure the ball for the microsecond you're down. The rule is that you have to complete the catch. He did not. He lost control when the ball hit the ground and that's never been a catch. Even in the days before instant replay it wasn't a catch. If it's not a catch then when he crossed the goal line doesn't matter since he never officially had possession.
As I said, we can bitch about the "completing the catch" rule all we want, though I consider it a necessity at this point. I don't see any basis whatsoever to argue about the application of the rule in this instance. Neither do the people who understand the rule better than any of us.
It amazes me that people can see the ball clearly move around as it hits the ground and think it's a catch. I don't know what sport people have been watching for the last 30 years 'cause it sure ain't fucking football.
I have not been a part of this at all, but I've been reading and I have one problem: the bolded part above. "Even in the days before instant replay that would not have been a catch." Complete BS. The call on the field was that he MADE A CATCH. If there was no replay to watch to overturn, it would have remained that way.
I think I'm about to complain about something completely different, but here we go. If, at full speed, the refs call it catch, it should just stay that way, unless CHALLENGED BY THE OTHER TEAM. I have no real problem with replay, but to look at every scoring play is just dumbing down the game and making the refs job obsolete.
To me, that looks like a catch right up to the point where it moves a little bit. There's no bobble. It literally moves a little bit because it hits the ground. I get what the rule says and that it was called correctly for that reason. I would just like to live in a world where that's a catch.
*coming from a Pats fan*
I've made that remark several times, and up until this instance had included "if the ref actually saw the ball move when it hit the ground." That's important. Most of the time a ref probably wouldn't have seen it and it'd be a catch. If a ref in 1987 happened to see the ball move as it did here he'd have called it incomplete.
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Eli is pretty much spot on
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/giants-eli-manning-steelers-overturned-td-think-clear-catch-160128539.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/giants-eli-manning-steelers-overturned-td-think-clear-catch-160128539.html)
I really just think it comes down to that it flat out looks like a catch and the visual of it has everyone thinking it must be one.
It’s so clear to Manning, he doesn’t understand why others are confused as to what constitutes a catch in the NFL
“I think it is clear what a catch is,’’ Manning said. “Especially when you’re going to the ground, you got to control the ball the whole time. You got to have it. If the ball hits the ground, you’re going to the ground, the ball moves or hits the ground and there’s a little loss of contact through the end of the play, it’s gonna be an incompletion.’’
Yeah, I'm hep.
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If this play had happened at the 50 yard line would it have been a catch?
I would say yes. Again, my main beef is on the NFL's interpretation of control. I don't think he ever lost control, and I don't think that the ground ever helped him gain control. If anything, the ground simply altered the control he had on the ball (the rotation of his left hand over the top of the ball).
If we're going to play the 'what if' game, how 'bout this one then... if he'd taken 2 steps then dove into the endzone ball first and the ground dislodged it, would that have been a completion/TD? Not sure it's the right comparison, as I think 2-steps are a "football move" but one knee+elbow is not - except at the sideline.
If he had taken 2 steps, then yes, it's a TD. But even at the sideline, you still have to maintain control when you hit the ground.
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If this play had happened at the 50 yard line would it have been a catch?
I would say yes. Again, my main beef is on the NFL's interpretation of control. I don't think he ever lost control, and I don't think that the ground ever helped him gain control. If anything, the ground simply altered the control he had on the ball (the rotation of his left hand over the top of the ball).
I'm confused why you keep saying he had control while the ball was spinning around in his hand. Was it his intention to rotate the ball so the seems were facing down? Was he trying to toss the ball to his chest? Both of these things happened independent of his hand.
If we're going to play the 'what if' game, how 'bout this one then... if he'd taken 2 steps then dove into the endzone ball first and the ground dislodged it, would that have been a completion/TD? Not sure it's the right comparison, as I think 2-steps are a "football move" but one knee+elbow is not - except at the sideline.
It depends on whether or not he'd established possession. Based on what you're describing I think it probably would be. The problem with James is that he never had possession. At all.
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It's not that the ball came loose when HE (the receiver) hit the ground. What's important is that the ball came loose when THE BALL hit the ground. What happened was that the receiver initially appeared to have control, but that control was lost as a result of the ball contacting the ground. I agree with El Barto that that's not now and never has been a good catch (although in the pre-replay days, it's something that the officials might have easily missed).
If, instead, the ball had come loose when the receiver went down but had never itself touched the ground, and the receiver then re-established control, it would have been a good catch.
As noted, the fact that this happened at the goal line isn't relevant because a good catch was never made.
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@ EB on how they fix this. Well, the genie is out of the bottle as you say. I like to say that you can't shove toothpaste back in the tube. I don't know. Change what they review on IR? Change how? Define "control"? I just don't know what improves these kinds of situations, or makes them worse.
I know it was not his intention to rotate the ball the way it did, but - and here's where everyone has bought into the NFL's way of thinking - that rotation does not mean he's lost control of the ball. Do me a favour... grab a football. Roll it around in your hands any number of ways you want. Can you still keep control of the ball?
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@ EB on how they fix this. Well, the genie is out of the bottle as you say. I like to say that you can't shove toothpaste back in the tube. I don't know. Change what they review on IR? Change how? Define "control"? I just don't know what improves these kinds of situations, or makes them worse.
I know it was not his intention to rotate the ball the way it did, but - and here's where everyone has bought into the NFL's way of thinking - that rotation does not mean he's lost control of the ball. Do me a favour... grab a football. Roll it around in your hands any number of ways you want. Can you still keep control of the ball?
That's been the NFL's way of thinking for a very long time. It's not a new thing. If you see the ball moving around it's not under control. If you want to change that then you're now making it far more subjective, and you already think it's too much so. Movement is concrete. It's something we all can see, as we did here.
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favour...
I think our failure to resolve this might be because we're clearly speaking different languages. :p
There is a difference between rotating the ball and the ground causing the rotation of the ball. I (and the refs) clearly think the ground caused the ball to rotate and that he temporarily lost control of the ball.
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favour...
I think our failure to resolve this might be because we're clearly speaking different languages. :p
There is a difference between rotating the ball and the ground causing the rotation of the ball. I (and the refs) clearly think the ground caused the ball to rotate and that he temporarily lost control of the ball.
Then take the "loses control" out of the rule, and replace it with "if the ball moves in the player's hands whatsoever".
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If this play had happened at the 50 yard line would it have been a catch?
I would say yes. Again, my main beef is on the NFL's interpretation of control. I don't think he ever lost control, and I don't think that the ground ever helped him gain control. If anything, the ground simply altered the control he had on the ball (the rotation of his left hand over the top of the ball).
If we're going to play the 'what if' game, how 'bout this one then... if he'd taken 2 steps then dove into the endzone ball first and the ground dislodged it, would that have been a completion/TD? Not sure it's the right comparison, as I think 2-steps are a "football move" but one knee+elbow is not - except at the sideline.
Not a great comparison. At that point you could have caught the ball at the 10 yard line or ran it from the 50 yard line. Control/completion was established, so at that point all you have to do it cross the line.
To me, it is a comparison that helps me crystalize the issue that I have with all of this. If he catches the ball half a yard father away so that he is forced to take the requisite 2 steps, but in doing so, is still in the process of twisting and lunging toward the endzone all in one motion as he did, the ONLY thing that changes is the two steps in that fraction of a second. He still during that same amount of time does the exact same thing with the ball, and it still ever so slightly moves when he hits the ground Nothing changes whatsoever with respect to his "control" over the ball and what the ball actually does.[/b] But in that situation, he is deemed to have had "control," whereas in the scenario that actually occurred, he is not. That, to me, is bizarre, defies common sense, and is the wrong outcome. But it just stems from interpreting the rule of what constitutes "control" in the way we interpret it. That doesn't mean the system is broken. I response to Barto's "what do we do about it?" post, I don't think we scrap the replay, or anything like that, because that isn't the problem. And for the minority of plays that come out arguably better by doing so, the refs miss the opportunity to fix a lot more plays that actually need fixing. If anything, I think it is "third option": define "control" better. But even then, that's not ideal because the way it is currently interpreted DOES work for the vast majority of situations. Does "fixing" it to correct a very small minority improve things or make things worse? I dunno. Maybe the latter, and that's not what we want. So at the end of the day, a few of us complain about it on the Internet or around the water cooler for a few days, and then move on to week 16 and the rest of our lives...
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So at the end of the day, a few of us complain about it on the Internet or around the water cooler for a few days, and then move on to week 16 and the rest of our lives...
Most accurate thing said in the last few pages.
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Honestly, it's the small intracacies the fact that games come down to these (every inch matters and so on) that makes the sport of football so good. If we didn't have such close calls then the game would be less exciting. I think it's great everyone is so into this call because it shows how tough and how hard earned everything is in the NFL. Now if I was a Steelers fan, I may not see it that way.
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Here is the rule.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x700q90/924/AqbCSv.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/poAqbCSvj)
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Honestly, it's the small intracacies the fact that games come down to these (every inch matters and so on) that makes the sport of football so good. If we didn't have such close calls then the game would be less exciting. I think it's great everyone is so into this call because it shows how tough and how hard earned everything is in the NFL. Now if I was a Steelers fan, I may not see it that way.
Yeah. This is a sport where we have cameras slowing things down to a millionth of a second but first downs are still measured by two schmoes holding onto a chain. Completely logical.
I haven’t checked this thread in 2 days, but did anyone discuss Rogers being interfered with/held on that last play?
When James’ knee hit the ground he still had possession. The lunge to the end zone was a separate football move and technically he recovered his own fumble in the end zone. Any takers on that one?
The Steelers are being ripped for being situationally stupid (rightly so) but the Patriots weren’t exactly perfect in crunch time either. Terrible tackling on that long catch and run and then James was left completely uncovered. But yeah, the coaches and Ben stood around with their thumbs up their asses during the review instead of planning plays, so deserved to lose from that point on.
Their tallest and fastest receiver was not on the field for the biggest play of the year :facepalm:.
Cowherd has always said it best, an emotion-driven coach is no match for the analytical Belichick style. Tomlin FELT IN HIS GUT like it was a good idea. Of course if the fake spike play had been successful, everyone would be lauding the guts and bravery of the play - that’s why Monday morning quarterbacking is such an easy job: criticize what didn’t work after the fact, with benefit of hindsight and not the pressure of the moment.
Anyway, time to move on and try to preserve the 2nd seed and get Brown back healthy.
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When James’ knee hit the ground he still had possession. The lunge to the end zone was a separate football move and technically he recovered his own fumble in the end zone. Any takers on that one?
Read the last few pages. :lol
The knee being down has nothing to do with the play. He was catching a thrown ball, so he has to fully control the ball all the way to the ground.
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When James’ knee hit the ground he still had possession. The lunge to the end zone was a separate football move and technically he recovered his own fumble in the end zone. Any takers on that one?
Sure. That's an easy one. He never had possession to begin with.
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When James’ knee hit the ground he still had possession. The lunge to the end zone was a separate football move and technically he recovered his own fumble in the end zone. Any takers on that one?
Sure. That's an easy one. He never had possession to begin with.
Yup, just like you can't score a touchdown without a completion, you can't have possession without a completion.
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It wasn't like he caught the pass, turned and dove for the end zone. He was diving for the catch and stretched out while hitting the ground.
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I disagree. He caught the ball, quickly pulled it into his body, and then stretched for the goal line. That was a catch in the NFL prior to this ridiculous rule. And I think their interpretation of the rule Sunday was incorrect. But I was not surprised.
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I certainly want no instant replay. That being said he don't love in the middle of the dive tries to extend he didn't make a play Kev so by the rules of today that's not a catch.
Again I will say I hate instant replay.
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That being said he don't love in the middle of the dive
???
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Come on you should know me better.
He's catching the ball while diving and trying to reach out o goal line at the same time. It's not a football move because he didn't complete the catch.
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When judging by a specific NFL rule, it was not a catch. By all other standards, including the eyeball test and common-sense, it was a catch and touchdown.
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When judging by a specific NFL rule, it was not a catch. By all other standards, including the eyeball test and common-sense, it was a catch and touchdown.
Which is better?
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Wow, are you guys still hashing this around? I'm tempted to think some here are being deliberately obtuse and just want to argue.
Take Gronks catch in the same game. Remember how he grabbed the ball on both sides, pulled the ball to his chest while rolling in the air, then landed in bounds while never loosing control?
What if on the same grab, he instead extends his arms and makes contact with the ground. When he does, one of his hands rolls up the side of the ball so the back of his hand is pinning the ball against the ground. Once he finishes hitting the ground he quickly readjusts his hand to firmly grab it. Would any of you be arguing for a catch then?
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If his bottom hand was still under the ball, yes I would be. Maybe it (the actual catch and/or this hypothetical scenario) wouldn't be such a 'hot' topic if it wasn't such a monumentally pivotal call. And maybe we wouldn't be discussing it as much if the Steelers did subsequently get a TD.
This is all just friendly discourse. We can have that nowadays... can't we? :)
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This is all just friendly discourse. We can have that nowadays... can't we? :)
Exactly. Not sure why the need to name call, Podaar. And coming from you, I'm surprised and not a little disappointed.
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This is all just friendly discourse. We can have that nowadays... can't we? :)
Exactly. Not sure why the need to name call, Podaar. And coming from you, I'm surprised and not a little disappointed.
I'm very sorry. My intent wasn't to belittle anyone, but I totally see how it's taken that way. As we all have learned from my posts over the years, I have difficulty expressing my thoughts well.
Again, all apologies and please ignore the obtuse comment.
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You'd have to be obtuse to think I wouldn't. ;)
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:)
[edit] I'll increase my donation to the board this year. Will that help? [/edit]
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he don't love in the middle of the dive
I certainly hope not. That might be an even bigger controversy than Nipplegate!
:mehlin
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For the record, earlier this season, Gronk caught a ball in the air in the end zone but when his body hit the ground it became dislodged and ruled incomplete.
Anyway, just watched the Mic’d Up of Jimmy GQ on the SF final drive. Awesome stuff. Brady Jr.
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When judging by a specific NFL rule, it was not a catch. By all other standards, including the eyeball test and common-sense, it was a catch and touchdown.
Which is better?
I am not sure I understand your question. What do you mean by "better"
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When judging by a specific NFL rule, it was not a catch. By all other standards, including the eyeball test and common-sense, it was a catch and touchdown.
Which is better?
I am not sure I understand your question. What do you mean by "better"
He was asking whether you'd rather have these things decided by:
1. applying a rule (which may or may not comport with any given individual's subjective assessment of what is and isn't a "catch"); or
2. having the officials on the field saying, "looks/doesn't look like a catch to me" (keeping in mind that the posts on this topic have illustrated a distinct difference of opinion about whether James did or didn't "catch" the ball, regardless of the details of any given rule).
For me, #1 is the far superior option, and I couldn't disagree more with the statement that "By all other standards, including the eyeball test and common-sense, it was a catch and touchdown."
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When judging by a specific NFL rule, it was not a catch. By all other standards, including the eyeball test and common-sense, it was a catch and touchdown.
Which is better?
I am not sure I understand your question. What do you mean by "better"
He was asking whether you'd rather have these things decided by:
1. applying a rule (which may or may not comport with any given individual's subjective assessment of what is and isn't a "catch"); or
2. having the officials on the field saying, "looks/doesn't look like a catch to me" (keeping in mind that the posts on this topic have illustrated a distinct difference of opinion about whether James did or didn't "catch" the ball, regardless of the details of any given rule).
For me, #1 is the far superior option, and I couldn't disagree more with the statement that "By all other standards, including the eyeball test and common-sense, it was a catch and touchdown."
I agree # 1 in general is the preferred option, as it is more objective. But I also do not think this specific rule is a good rule. So as it is now, neither is "better". But there will always be a subjective component to interpreting the rule itself, as well as interpreting visual evidence in applying the rule. So the eye-ball test, and common sense will always be part of #1. But there is no reason #1 and #2 have to be mutually exclusive. We can have a rule that makes sense and apply that rule.
I thought my point was clear in my response, but I guess it wasn't.
To answer the question then, my answer would be:
3) None of the above. Make the rule better and apply that rule.
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The problem is that you really can't remove rules, or aspects/components of rules now. They have to be more specific rather than less, and the more specific they become, the more people will be pissed off about situations like what happened or their general inability to know what the hell a catch is anymore.
In this case I don't know what tweak to the rule could be implemented. Seems like "ball hitting ground then moving around in receiver's hands equals no dice" is pretty simple, and for the most part reasonable.
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The problem is that you really can't remove rules, or aspects/components of rules now. They have to be more specific rather than less, and the more specific they become, the more people will be pissed off about situations like what happened or their general inability to know what the hell a catch is anymore.
In this case I don't know what tweak to the rule could be implemented. Seems like "ball hitting ground then moving around in receiver's hands equals no dice" is pretty simple, and for the most part reasonable.
I do not share your assessment that you cant remove rules, or aspects/components of rules. I understand that some will agree with the rule as it stands. I saw that as a clear catch and touchdown, and do not feel that the rule makes sense. I feel that there needs to be a re-working of that rule to somehow allow that type of play to stand. That's all. Not interested in getting into a debate about it. Just stating my POV.
I went back and read my previous post, and perhaps I worded it it more as a statement of fact, so I will edit it here:
When judging by the specific NFL rule, it was not a catch. By my own personal eyeball test and common-sense, it was a catch and touchdown.
I wish they could, and would, fairly and reasonably change the rules to have that be a catch. I know some will disagree that is possible, and some will argue it isn't even needed. That's cool, and I respect that.
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When judging by a specific NFL rule, it was not a catch. By all other standards, including the eyeball test and common-sense, it was a catch and touchdown.
Which is better?
I am not sure I understand your question. What do you mean by "better"
He was asking whether you'd rather have these things decided by:
1. applying a rule (which may or may not comport with any given individual's subjective assessment of what is and isn't a "catch"); or
2. having the officials on the field saying, "looks/doesn't look like a catch to me" (keeping in mind that the posts on this topic have illustrated a distinct difference of opinion about whether James did or didn't "catch" the ball, regardless of the details of any given rule).
For me, #1 is the far superior option, and I couldn't disagree more with the statement that "By all other standards, including the eyeball test and common-sense, it was a catch and touchdown."
Seeing as FOR ME there is no such thing as "common sense" (it's just another way of saying "in my opinion"), there really isn't any choice. At least with #1, it's replicable and predictable, regardless of who is the official and who is the receiver. That's the most important factor in my opinion.
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Yeah, pretty sure no one here is advocating there not be a rule to enforce. Just advocating for a different rule, that makes more sense, to enforce.
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Seeing as FOR ME there is no such thing as "common sense"
In general, or in the NFL?
Seeing as FOR ME there is no such thing as "common sense" it's just another way of saying "in my opinion"), there really isn't any choice. At least with #1, it's replicable and predictable, regardless of who is the official and who is the receiver. That's the most important factor in my opinion.
(https://replygif.net/i/989.gif)
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So apparently, the Packers broke a rule for putting Rodgers on IR twice without a second injury. I'm sure nothing will come of it, but apparently other teams feel that the Packers should be made to release Rodgers, which incidentally would be in his best interest.
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Seeing as FOR ME there is no such thing as "common sense"
In general, or in the NFL?
In general. 99 times out of 100, "It's just common sense" follows an opinion that can't be articulated or defended in any more substantial way.
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So apparently, the Packers broke a rule for putting Rodgers on IR twice without a second injury. I'm sure nothing will come of it, but apparently other teams feel that the Packers should be made to release Rodgers, which incidentally would be in his best interest.
Wow. Seems that the league rule requires him to be cut once he's healthy. But since when does the league give a damn about the rules? They'll ignore it.
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Damn, Buffalo RB got Joe Theismann'd on us. That was ugly.
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Followed by Benjamin making an incredible catch in the back of the end zone while dragging both feet, only for the refs to call it no catch despite reviewing it. I swear, you can't make this stuff up.
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Followed by Benjamin making an incredible catch in the back of the end zone while dragging both feet, only for the refs to call it no catch despite reviewing it. I swear, you can't make this stuff up.
Patriots benefit in a huge way second week in a row. Also the sun came up this morning.
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Followed by Benjamin making an incredible catch in the back of the end zone while dragging both feet, only for the refs to call it no catch despite reviewing it. I swear, you can't make this stuff up.
At least that play was a hell of a lot closer than the Pittsburgh "catch" last week, which also happened on the play preceding the (TD) catch.
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I thought you could see that black rubber coming up on that toe. I'm surprised they called it back.
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I thought you could see that black rubber coming up on that toe. I'm surprised they called it back.
Me too. I didn't think there was enough disparity to reverse the call on the field.
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Exactly. Great athletic plays are lost with instant replay.
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I thought you could see that black rubber coming up on that toe. I'm surprised they called it back.
He was dragging his foot before he controlled the ball. Once he pulled the ball in his foot was back up. But hey, we shouldn't let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy.
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But I will always maintain that if the technology is there, then there's an obligation to get the call right. Like in hockey, just because a goal was scored in 1976 when it was offsides, doesn't mean it needs to be allowed nowadays.
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I thought you could see that black rubber coming up on that toe. I'm surprised they called it back.
He was dragging his foot before he controlled the ball. Once he pulled the ball in his foot was back up. But hey, we shouldn't let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy.
have to watch it again I didn't see him bobbling the ball. maybe I pulled the referee and was just looking at his feet.
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Whatever you do, do not pull the referee! :lol
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I thought you could see that black rubber coming up on that toe. I'm surprised they called it back.
He was dragging his foot before he controlled the ball. Once he pulled the ball in his foot was back up. But hey, we shouldn't let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy.
Who said there was a conspiracy?
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Whatever you do, do not pull the referee! :lol
Pulled a ref. :lol. You know, looking at the feet, not the ball.
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Whatever you do, do not pull the referee! :lol
Pulled a ref. :lol. You know, looking at the feet, not the ball.
:lol
Gotcha! One can never be too sure. :lol
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:lol
okay I saw the replay and when he actually stopped juggling the ball one foot was already out of bounds. So yeah it wasn't a catch.
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So in a league where holding or interference could be called every play, NE is the only team that apparently does not do either if the past 2 games are any indication.
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And like that, Dallas is out....Woohoo...
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:lol
okay I saw the replay and when he actually stopped juggling the ball one foot was already out of bounds. So yeah it wasn't a catch.
You and I must've been watching a different replay. Catch, pull into his body, two feet inbounds, move the ball under one arm to protect and brace for impact, ball never wobbled.
Clearly not a catch. ::)
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:lol
okay I saw the replay and when he actually stopped juggling the ball one foot was already out of bounds. So yeah it wasn't a catch.
You and I must've been watching a different replay. Catch, pull into his body, two feet inbounds, move the ball under one arm to protect and brace for impact, ball never wobbled.
Clearly not a catch. ::)
Wasn't a catch until he pulled it into his body. Just because the ball is kind of-sort of on one hand doesn't mean you caught it and control it. No handy-dandy animated gif for this one, but here are all of the angles. At the 24 second replay you'll see it it him in the right hand and he brings the ball in around the 29 second mark. The next replay is much more clear about how long it took him to control the ball, about he 39 second mark. So no, the ball never wobbled but it took him a second to bring the ball in and his foot had already left the ground.
Great effort, though.
https://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/bills-patriots-nfl-catch-rule-kelvin-benjamin-video-new-england-buffalo/1l2dyvqg6nq8y1uam9cb0eo94x
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I love the New England Patriots!
:rollin
;D
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"It was clear and obvious that he did not have control of the ball until he brought it all the way down into his chest."
Once again, control = 2 palms on the ball and it stays 100% stationary.
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"It was clear and obvious that he did not have control of the ball until he brought it all the way down into his chest."
Once again, control = 2 palms on the ball and it stays 100% stationary.
Hey I get ya. But buy the rules of the game and how refs call these replays it's not a catch. In the 80's that would be an amazing catch and I'd rather have it that way.
It's not and by the rules it's not a catch. Blame technology.
.
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So in a league where holding or interference could be called every play, NE is the only team that apparently does not do either if the past 2 games are any indication.
No they just get burned. Btw Malcolm Butler was called for defensive holding so you're wrong.
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Lost in the Patriots getting every questionable call is the apparent slippage in the play of Tom Brady.
In the last four games, he has 4 touchdown passes and 5 interceptions.
In the last five games, after averaging 315 passing yards a game in the first 10 games, he has averaged 248 yards a game.
Father Time is coming...
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It's more an injury. Talking to England is his hand and last week she been grabbing it. You don't drop off in the middle of season. It's definitely an injury.
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That's part of it, though. Injuries become more frequent and don't heal as quickly as you get older.
In other news, I was stunned to see the final score of Jax/SF.
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I only saw some of it so I'll assume San Fran won. it is amazing how having a franchise quarterback can change a team from one win to say 8-8. that team has a real good chance to prosper Lynch can't screw it up.
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Lost in the Patriots getting every questionable call is the apparent slippage in the play of Tom Brady.
In the last four games, he has 4 touchdown passes and 5 interceptions.
In the last five games, after averaging 315 passing yards a game in the first 10 games, he has averaged 248 yards a game.
Father Time is coming...
Maybe. Maybe not. Seems like physically he's still there. This isn't like Peyton where he lost 50% of his arm strength over night. He was overthrowing Cooks. And he's moving around just fine. He just doesn't look comfortable. Sometimes he's waiting too long. Sometimes he's rushing into poor decisions. Sometimes he just throws shitty balls. I doubt he's exhibiting aspects of Alzheimer at 40, so my hunch is that he's just in a funk.
That said, I really wish they'd been able to keep Garopollo around til' next year.
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"It was clear and obvious that he did not have control of the ball until he brought it all the way down into his chest."
Once again, control = 2 palms on the ball and it stays 100% stationary.
Man, I'd really love to sit down and watch a couple of these plays with you. I'd love to find out exactly when you think a player has made a catch.
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Seahawks showed up with a little fight today, and still have life. They aren't making it out of the Wild Card round, even if they get in, and they are going to look a lot different next year. The championship window in the NFL can open and close so quickly.
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Found out that both Bills and Ravens games were flexed to 425. I get it. The West Coast games mean nadda, so CBS and the NFL saw the need to take two games that mean something, and move them for the purpose of interest and ratings.
Once again, I get it. I totally understand.
But.....it's frickin' New Year's Eve. People had plans for that time. It's tough enough on some of those attending a game in November and December to have to change hotel reservations, travel schedules, baby sitters, etc. But now you force them out onto the roads at 8-10 pm on Amateur Night.
Add onto all of those who head into the city to partake in the evening's festivities at various establishments, those who head in for the fireworks in Balto, etc. etc......what a flustercluck.
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Talking to England is his hand and last week she been grabbing it.
I assume this was voice to text and it's become tiresome (probably to everyone) to ask you what you meant with your posts, but I've read this about 12 times and can make no sense out of it. I'm curious, what did you actually say, King?
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"It was clear and obvious that he did not have control of the ball until he brought it all the way down into his chest."
Once again, control = 2 palms on the ball and it stays 100% stationary.
Man, I'd really love to sit down and watch a couple of these plays with you. I'd love to find out exactly when you think a player has made a catch.
You (and the NFL) and I just have a different interpretation of what constitutes "control". That's all.
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Talking to England is his hand and last week she been grabbing it.
I assume this was voice to text and it's become tiresome (probably to everyone) to ask you what you meant with your posts, but I've read this about 12 times and can make no sense out of it. I'm curious, what did you actually say, King?
Yeah, talk to text. In New England the talk is that he injured his throwing hand a few weeks ago but you'll never know with N.E.
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Okay, that makes sense. Thank you, sir!
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I tend not to check before hitting send. :lol
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I tend not to check before hitting send. :lol
Google hasn't mastered the New England dialect yet apparently
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I tend not to check before hitting send. :lol
Google hasn't mastered the New England dialect yet apparently
Eh? :lol
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Found out that both Bills and Ravens games were flexed to 425. I get it. The West Coast games mean nadda, so CBS and the NFL saw the need to take two games that mean something, and move them for the purpose of interest and ratings.
Once again, I get it. I totally understand.
But.....it's frickin' New Year's Eve. People had plans for that time. It's tough enough on some of those attending a game in November and December to have to change hotel reservations, travel schedules, baby sitters, etc. But now you force them out onto the roads at 8-10 pm on Amateur Night.
Add onto all of those who head into the city to partake in the evening's festivities at various establishments, those who head in for the fireworks in Balto, etc. etc......what a flustercluck.
I get the frustration, but the NFL got this one right by moving the games the way they did and having no Sunday night game.
Carolina/Atlanta was the most obvious choice for the night game, but that would be completely unfair to Seattle, because Seattle needs to win and have Atlanta lose. If NO wins during the day and Car/Atl is at night, that locks the Panthers into the 5 seed, which means they could rest their starters and Atlanta would have a gimme win.
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Mike Pereira
Verified account
@MikePereira
21h21 hours ago
More
regarding the Buffalo no touchdown, nothing more irritating to an official than to make a great call and then someone in a suit in an office in New York incorrectly reverses it. It is more and more obvious that there isn't a standard for staying with the call on the field.
Mike Pereira
Verified account
@MikePereira
20h20 hours ago
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Now that another touchdown has been taken away with out clear and obvious evidence, it is time to move on to the catch rule. It doesn't work. I doesn't make sense. Start with the Jessie James play. That should be a catch and a touchdown not an incomplete pass. (more)
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Interpretation was much better when it was just a referee's call and we really didn't have a great look at replay. Now that we have HD and we can slow it down to the nth degree it's left up to interpretation. The way the refs and the office see it, differs from the way fans see it.
That's why even in just this thread there's so many on each side.
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I totally agree with the take Colin Cowherd just had about this on FSI, which was basically that replay was instituted to fix the egregious incorrect calls, not to try and fix calls that are so close that we can watch them over and over and over and over and still not be sure what the right call is.
Having seen the play again a bunch of times this morning, it was really close. And plays are not supposed to be overturned unless there is definitive proof. And there wasn't.
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oh I definitely get that and actually says that in the rules. I think in these refs mind when they see the replay it's indisputable to them. because the ball switches hands and the foot up in the air they say had no control what if he's falling and it just switching hands?
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I will preface this by saying I do not think there is a conspiracy (since Barto seemed to suggest that I said that, even though I never did), but it's a bad look for the league. Most already thought they went soft off on Gronk by only giving him a game for attacking a prone player from behind and giving him a concussion, which enabled him to play in the Steelers game (a game they likely do not win without him), and then you have two very questionable calls two weeks in a row that took TDs away from their opponent (one of which would have likely won the game, and the other of which would have changed the momentum of the game). It's just a bad look for the league, in a time where public perception of the shield is already not great overall for a variety of reasons.
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you guys should stick to keeping Gronk out of it this isn't about the league it's about the rules. Gronk had no prior history they do wrong a hundred percent yes and one game seems enough if he happens again it should be larger.
This is the problem with the league and their perception because they've come down the Patriots hard now all of a sudden it's a conspiracy. If League had their way, they'd bury the Pats.
That's a problem when you're that good everybody hate you so much that they look into little things like Gronk's suspension as a way to hate the team more. I get the hate but hate them because your tired of them.
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I will preface this by saying I do not think there is a conspiracy (since Barto seemed to suggest that I said that, even though I never did), but it's a bad look for the league. Most already thought they went soft off on Gronk by only giving him a game for attacking a prone player from behind and giving him a concussion, which enabled him to play in the Steelers game (a game they likely do not win without him), and then you have two very questionable calls two weeks in a row that took TDs away from their opponent (one of which would have likely won the game, and the other of which would have changed the momentum of the game). It's just a bad look for the league, in a time where public perception of the shield is already not great overall for a variety of reasons.
you guys should stick to keeping Gronk out of it this isn't about the league it's about the rules. Gronk had no prior history they do wrong a hundred percent yes and one game seems enough if he happens again it should be larger.
This is the problem with the league and their perception because they've come down the Patriots hard now all of a sudden it's a conspiracy. If League had their way, they'd bury the Pats.
That's a problem when you're that good everybody hate you so much that they look into little things like Gronk's suspension as a way to hate the team more. I get the hate but hate them because your tired of them.
:facepalm: :facepalm:
No point in having this convo if you aren't going to pay attention to what I'm saying.
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Not you Kev, other fans. If you're bringing it up and you're level headed, other fully believe this crap. :lol
You already know I hate replay and they should adjust the rules. But right now the rule is the rule and it's all I change it it is what it is.
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The heck with Gronk, he should have been suspended for the rest of the season for that. No excuse for that kind of behavior. He intentionally hurts someone from behind on the ground giving the poor guy a concussion ( which could lead to future problems) . The NFL only gives him a slap on the wrist, when he should have ended up in jail like anybody else that pulls something like that.
It's funny how a lot of commentators still praise him after showing his true colors.
Go SEAHAWKS!!!
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those who have has had past histories doing things like that. Gronk has never had something like that. That's why he got a one-game suspension.
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Mike Pereira
Verified account
@MikePereira
21h21 hours ago
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regarding the Buffalo no touchdown, nothing more irritating to an official than to make a great call and then someone in a suit in an office in New York incorrectly reverses it. It is more and more obvious that there isn't a standard for staying with the call on the field.
Mike Pereira
Verified account
@MikePereira
20h20 hours ago
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Now that another touchdown has been taken away with out clear and obvious evidence, it is time to move on to the catch rule. It doesn't work. I doesn't make sense. Start with the Jessie James play. That should be a catch and a touchdown not an incomplete pass. (more)
Pereira is taking the King stance. He doesn't like what replay is doing for the game. What you didn't include (not a jab, it probably wasn't included at your source) was that he thought the call re Jesse James was right, and I'd bet good money he'd say the same thing about yesterday's "catch." The rules might suck, but they were followed properly in both cases.
As for Gronk, I'm sure you'd love to see him banned for life (or traded to Denver in lieu of), and if that's how discipline is to be handled in the NFL then I wouldn't bitch about it. However, you're never going to get fair discipline if there's zero consistency, as is the case now. Gronk, miraculously, got what any other player would get.
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replay was instituted to fix the egregious incorrect calls, not to try and fix calls that are so close that we can watch them over and over and over and over and still not be sure what the right call is.
This so fucking much. I get having/wanting to review all scoring plays so as to not 'waste' a challenge flag. But maybe the league should look at it once at full speed, and if nothing seems amiss, then that's it... call stands. Not spend 4 minutes looking at 11 different angles frame by literal frame (which is probably 24 fps at least... maybe 48). One frame makes it not look like a catch, and that wipes out everything about the play.
What ever happened to a time limit that the refs used to have to render a decision?
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The heck with Gronk, he should have been suspended for the rest of the season for that. No excuse for that kind of behavior. He intentionally hurts someone from behind on the ground giving the poor guy a concussion ( which could lead to future problems) . The NFL only gives him a slap on the wrist, when he should have ended up in jail like anybody else that pulls something like that.
It's funny how a lot of commentators still praise him after showing his true colors.
Damn. C'mon man.
replay was instituted to fix the egregious incorrect calls, not to try and fix calls that are so close that we can watch them over and over and over and over and still not be sure what the right call is.
This so fucking much. I get having/wanting to review all scoring plays so as to not 'waste' a challenge flag. But maybe the league should look at it once at full speed, and if nothing seems amiss, then that's it... call stands. Not spend 4 minutes looking at 11 different angles frame by literal frame (which is probably 24 fps at least... maybe 48). One frame makes it not look like a catch, and that wipes out everything about the play.
What ever happened to a time limit that the refs used to have to render a decision?
But at the end of the day, the call has to be right. Now, if it's too close to call, then the call on the field should be upheld.
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replay was instituted to fix the egregious incorrect calls, not to try and fix calls that are so close that we can watch them over and over and over and over and still not be sure what the right call is.
This so fucking much. I get having/wanting to review all scoring plays so as to not 'waste' a challenge flag. But maybe the league should look at it once at full speed, and if nothing seems amiss, then that's it... call stands. Not spend 4 minutes looking at 11 different angles frame by literal frame (which is probably 24 fps at least... maybe 48). One frame makes it not look like a catch, and that wipes out everything about the play.
What ever happened to a time limit that the refs used to have to render a decision?
And then you'll see non-catches ruled touchdowns. Then we'll have to listen to Tony Romo opine the whole game about how the Patriots just got handed a win due to a bad call.
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I don't think that a right-from-wrong call should be made only because of 48fps 4K video allowed someone to see if it was "correct". If we're that reliant on technology, then let's do away with all on-field refs! I'm being facetious of course - but at what point does is the human element acceptable.
I always felt the key word in any instant replay review/over-turn had to be egregious. But we've gone the way of any minute error only detectable by a plethora of camera angles and reviews at ultra high-def.
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And like that, Dallas is out....Woohoo...
And Seattle is still in! :metal :metal
And Rams win the west for the first time since 2003!
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Dallas Cowboys. Doing less with more since 1996. :clap:
Most talented under achieving team in the league with a coaching staff not worth a fraction of their weight in shit. :tdwn
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Raiders being Raiders. ::) At least they kept it close.
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I don't think that a right-from-wrong call should be made only because of 48fps 4K video allowed someone to see if it was "correct". If we're that reliant on technology, then let's do away with all on-field refs! I'm being facetious of course - but at what point does is the human element acceptable.
I always felt the key word in any instant replay review/over-turn had to be egregious. But we've gone the way of any minute error only detectable by a plethora of camera angles and reviews at ultra high-def.
In that case the question becomes where do we draw the line, let alone do we want to go there at all. What you're talking about is literally allowing error in the game. Do we want to try and insure the right calls are made, or do we want to allow for human fallibility to play a role in the outcome. If the replay official sees a guy's foot off the ground when he establishes control is he supposed to defer to a ref he now knows to be wrong?
And this is all the more important because the network, the talking heads, and people here at DTF will pick it apart. If James' or Benjamin's catches hadn't been reviewed and stood as touchdowns what do you think Romo would have done? They'd have come back from a commercial and he'd have shown the 48FPS replay to explain how it wasn't actually a catch and the Patriots just got jobbed.
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Do we want to try and insure the right calls are made, or do we want to allow for human fallibility to play a role in the outcome. If the replay official sees a guy's foot off the ground when he establishes control is he supposed to defer to a ref he now knows to be wrong?
First, I think it's BS that the goal is ensure the "right" call is made. There is no 100% right/wrong in something that has an element of subjectivity to it. But to answer your second question, yes... I think on-field refs should have seniority over replay officials. Why don't replay officials call down when there is an obvious hold made that allowed the QB to throw a TD pass? Or an obvious face-mask that would give that 15-yards to extend a drive? Or the obvious *non* face-mask that shouldn't have been called? Look the NFL already puts limits on what the replay officials can and cannot call. I think limiting them to egregious calls should be their boundary.
And who the fuck cares what announcers say? That's like suggesting gov't policy should be moulded around Alex Jones' latest podcast rant :D. Ok, bad example given our current state of gov't affairs :lol
I'm reminded of the old adage... You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time. The fact that so many are debating/discussing this topic would suggest few are "pleased" with the current status quo. Remember when "tuck" was a rule. That got changed - people understood the rule, and some even believed it was the right rule. But it was not in the spirit of what a quarterback throw was. IMO, how officials view "control" is not in the spirit of what a catch is.
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Of the teams that have already clinched a playoff berth, how many cannot improve the bracket positioning win or lose in the last week of the season? I would think some would not play key players if it did not make difference in the standings.
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And like that, Dallas is out....Woohoo...
And Seattle is still in! :metal :metal
And Rams win the west for the first time since 2003!
Yeah, the most tragic outcome of this weekend is that Seattle is still not only alive, but likely to get in. I don't think Atlanta beats Carolina. I just don't. Carolina is still playing pretty well and has too much at stake to just lie down this week, and Atlanta is pretty shaky right now in the way they are playing. And I think Seattle can probably muster up a win at home against Arizona.
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Patriots have Harrison at Gillette today kicking the old tires......
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I wonder what he has left. They just need him to make one key play at a key time this post season, similar to Hightower making those key plays at the end of each of the last SBs.
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Do we want to try and insure the right calls are made, or do we want to allow for human fallibility to play a role in the outcome. If the replay official sees a guy's foot off the ground when he establishes control is he supposed to defer to a ref he now knows to be wrong?
First, I think it's BS that the goal is ensure the "right" call is made. There is no 100% right/wrong in something that has an element of subjectivity to it. But to answer your second question, yes... I think on-field refs should have seniority over replay officials. Why don't replay officials call down when there is an obvious hold made that allowed the QB to throw a TD pass? Or an obvious face-mask that would give that 15-yards to extend a drive? Or the obvious *non* face-mask that shouldn't have been called? Look the NFL already puts limits on what the replay officials can and cannot call. I think limiting them to egregious calls should be their boundary.
What I asked is do we want to try and insure the right calls are made. Not are we currently insuring that the right calls are made. Your answer leads me to believe that you don't care if they are. We're talking now about a specific circumstance and a technical interpretation of a rule. The vast majority of replay reversals are mundane. "The player's knee was down before the ball came loose. Therefore it is not a fumble." Are we supposed to let that stand because the referee on the field didn't see the knee? This is what I meant by where do we draw the line.
And something else we're not considering is that referees have come to depend on IR as a backup. Sometimes you'll see a referee running all the way from the other sideline signalling dramatically that the ball didn't cross the goal line or something. This would be a guy who saw something pretty clear and conclusive. More often you'll see a referee look at another waiting to see if he saw something. That was the Benjamin catch the other day. A ref 5 feet away had to look to another before signalling touchdown. I think they sometimes make a signal knowing that it'll be reviewed in the box anyway, which I think is a good move for them. Better the reversal than a guess.
And for the record, announcers are the beginning of all controversies.
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Patriots have Harrison at Gillette today kicking the old tires......
God damn I really hate that guy. Hopefully he's got nothing left in the tank.
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And something else we're not considering is that referees have come to depend on IR as a backup. Sometimes you'll see a referee running all the way from the other sideline signalling dramatically that the ball didn't cross the goal line or something. This would be a guy who saw something pretty clear and conclusive. More often you'll see a referee look at another waiting to see if he saw something. That was the Benjamin catch the other day. A ref 5 feet away had to look to another before signalling touchdown. I think they sometimes make a signal knowing that it'll be reviewed in the box anyway, which I think is a good move for them. Better the reversal than a guess.
And for the record, announcers are the beginning of all controversies.
^ All very good points, EB.
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Patriots have Harrison at Gillette today kicking the old tires......
Totally savage move :lol
God damn I really hate that guy. Hopefully he's got nothing left in the tank.
All things considered, he pretty much doesn’t. But wouldn’t it be just fitting for this generation Pats team to find another way to humiliate this generation Steelers team. Harrison making a big swing play in a playoff game sounds about right to me.
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Done deal. Sorry El Barto.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x700q90/922/9ap3LN.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pm9ap3LNj)
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Done deal. Sorry El Barto.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x700q90/922/9ap3LN.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pm9ap3LNj)
Interesting. My initial reaction is that Harrison is done, so who cares, but I also feel like he’s going to break Bens leg in a playoff game or something :lol
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I know he his kind of pissed off at the Steelers and Tomlin. He might want to really stick it to them. The problem is that he might cripple somebody in the process. The good news is that the he's plenty well rested since the Tomlin wouldn't give him any snaps.
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I know he his kind of pissed off at the Steelers and Tomlin. He might want to really stick it to them. The problem is that he might cripple somebody in the process. The good news is that the he's plenty well rested since the Tomlin wouldn't give him any snaps.
I dig it - the Tomlin it is. I agree with the Tomlins call to not play him though, Watt came in as a rookie and played extremely well. I feel like it was the right call.
That said I agree with you, if his history of emotional maturity is any indicator, he’ll probably try to cripple a Steeler if the situation presents itself.
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Since he was only used 40 snaps this year I'm not sure how viable he is but if he can be used in certain situations that'll probably be good.
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I think Harrison can still be effective as a situational pass rusher, plus it seems like a forgone conclusion that the AFC Championship game will be Pittsburgh @ New England, so he'll most likely have a chance to stick it to the Steelers like Barto said.
That reminds me of Al Davis back in the day, he used to pick up seemingly any former Bronco he could so they could stick it to them when the Raiders played them :lol Sadly it did work a few times. You can never underestimate a player's hunger to stick it to a former team, especially in a quest for one last championship.
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I think Harrison can still be effective as a situational pass rusher
This...
If memory serves me right, he had a fairly significant play towards the end of the Chiefs game. He still has something left, and he'll be going up against Big Al if/when they play again in the playoffs. I love AL, but he can be prone to giving up sacks if a player that has good leverage/power goes up against him.
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And for the record, announcers are the beginning of all controversies.
Man, if that ain't the truth. I am convinced that Randy Moss pretending to moon the crowd in GB in that playoff game many years ago would have been a non-story had Joe Buck not reacted immediately with such disgust.
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Apologies for forgetting to do this last week.
Post-Week 16 Power Rankings
Top 10
1. New England - 5th in scoring defense, which no one is talking about
2. Minnesota - Case Keenum continues to play well enough for this team to be a Super Bowl team
3. Pittsburgh - are hoping to avenge that loss to NE last week
4. LA Rams - unreal season by Todd Gurley
5. New Orleans - the best 1-2 punch at RB we have seen this century
6. Philadelphia - yeah, yeah, they clinched the 1 seed, but does anyone really think Nick Foles is taking this team anywhere?
7. Carolina - defense continues to carry this team
8. Kansas City - this team is quietly starting to look like that team that started 5-0
9. Jacksonville - taken to the cleaners by Jimmy G, but that defense will go into the postseason with a chip on their shoulders
10. Atlanta - can they lock up that last playoff spot by beating a tough Panthers team
NFL MVP Top 5
1. Carson Wentz - they won last night, but Wentz's value to that team has never been more obvious; he still leads the league in TD passes despite missing the last 2+ games
2. Todd Gurley - what a beast this guy is
3. Tom Brady - he will win it by default now, but he shouldn't
4. Russell Wilson - if the Seahawks squeeze into the playoffs, he'll get some votes
5. Alvin Kamara - this guy is electric
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The playoffs can't come soon enough... unfortunately there's not a whole lot to look forward to this weekend with most of the playoff spots already locked up. They're not even going to flex a game into SNF like they usually do in week 17 :facepalm:
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The Tennessee - Jacksonville game in Nashville could be a good one.
An espn article states Jacksonville will play starters even though the
Outcome will not have any effect on Jacksonville’s playoff position.
If the Titans win the will likely play at the Jaguars in the first round.
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10. Atlanta - can they lock up that last playoff spot by beating a tough Panthers team
I doubt it. I think they are in trouble in terms of their playoff hopes.
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I have no problem with Brady winning MVP. The patriots would be nothing this year without him. Now, if Wentz didn't get hurt I'd prefer him. Love Gurley but there are a lot of good players on that team.
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So, does anyone see Seattle realistically NOT making the playoffs? I don't think I've ever been more confident of a #7 seed getting in going into week 17. I really wish the NFC West games were flipped so that it was SF vs. Sea and Ariz vs. L.A.
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So, does anyone see Seattle realistically NOT making the playoffs? I don't think I've ever been more confident of a #7 seed getting in going into week 17. I really wish the NFC West games were flipped so that it was SF vs. Sea and Ariz vs. L.A.
If the Falcons put it together like they're capable of doing then it could be interesting. That being said, I think it's going to be Seattle making it in the dance.
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Seattle is a bit of a mess the last couple weeks. Beat Philly, lost to JAX with a huge meltdown, get smoked by Rams at home, crush Dallas on road. Lots of injuries, dissent, and a feeling lots of guys aren't going to be around next year. If I was a millionaire I wouldn't bet a dime on this team either way.
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So, does anyone see Seattle realistically NOT making the playoffs? I don't think I've ever been more confident of a #7 seed getting in going into week 17. I really wish the NFC West games were flipped so that it was SF vs. Sea and Ariz vs. L.A.
I agree. Would love to see you guys play spoiler to the Seahawks. As it is, you're gonna get our second stringers in what amounts to a preseason game just about. While I get McVay's logic for sitting guys, I was really looking forward to this game! Now we will be there...but probably gonna be a losing cause now.
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So, does anyone see Seattle realistically NOT making the playoffs? I don't think I've ever been more confident of a #7 seed getting in going into week 17. I really wish the NFC West games were flipped so that it was SF vs. Sea and Ariz vs. L.A.
I think it’s more likely that Seattle misses the playoffs than many people think for the sole reason that it only takes one win from Atlanta to keep the Seahawks out. With a win and in situation at home against the Panthers, I see the Falcons playing hard, and since they own the head-to-head tiebreaker over Seattle, a win would give Atlanta the 6th seed and keep the Seahawks out. Now granted, the Panthers are fighting for a division title so this game is no gimme for the Falcons, who haven’t been playing as well as they should have this year, but Seattle’s playoff spot is nowhere close to being guaranteed.
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I have no problem with Brady winning MVP. The patriots would be nothing this year without him. Now, if Wentz didn't get hurt I'd prefer him. Love Gurley but there are a lot of good players on that team.
The trouble with that line of reasoning is that they DO win without him. 3-1 last year, 11-5 in 2008. Contrast those records with how the Packers and Steelers for example fare with backup QBs over the years.
Actually this reminded me to conduct a quick but fascinating experiment with the assistance of Football Reference. Bear with me on this for a second, putting bias or homerism aside, just numbers:
I think most fans agree, and especially Patriot fans, that Belichick is a MUCH better coach than Tomlin. Tomlin's stupidity is on display all the time. How much better is BB? Is it worth maybe 2 wins a year? Let's assume that is the case. Now switch those coaches to the other teams - the Brady years with Tomlin and the Ben years with Belichick. If Tomlin's cluelessness costs his team 2 wins a year, then Brady's record (16 full seasons x 2 games per year = 32 wins turned to losses) goes from 195-55 to 163-87. If Ben is 2 games BETTER every year with Belichick for his 14 years x 2 wins per year, his record goes from 135-63 to 163-35! Since most NE fans no doubt find that result very distasteful, you can do the math with only 1 win per year instead of 2. In that case Brady is 179-71 (.716%) and Ben is 149-49 (.753%), which pro-rated to Brady's 250 games comes out to 188-62. So there we have it - either Tomlin is as good as BB or Ben is every bit as good at Brady at winning when you factor in getting hamstrung by Tomlin. By the way, before you ask, over this entire period since Brady became the starter, the defenses' points allowed per game are 18.6 for NE and 18.3 for Pit, so no advantage for Ben and the Patriots have had much better special teams which is one of BB's greatest strengths as coach.
My point: I know people can't get past Ben's interceptions this year, but 40% of them were in ONE game. They only lost 2 other games. Second in yards, only 5 TDs behind the league leader, and a bunch of last-minute come-from-behind wins. Of course he's an MVP candidate even if the fantasy stats aren't quite as pretty. Everyone touted Brown as an MVP candidate, and yet the same people agree Ben is the guy the Steelers absolutely cannot do without. He won when Bell missed a bunch of time too the past few years, with an old running back that was out of the league the next year. So not saying he should win it over Gurley or Wentz or those guys, but he's every bit as valuable to his team as Brady is.
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While I agree with the "how important to their team are they" metric, I don't think it's fair to penalize a player because his coach is so good. In any case, I think the eyeball test kind of sums it up. Pitt has the leading receiver and 3rd leading RB playing alongside Ben. If he gets hurt they have two guys who can carry a game on their own. The fact that Tomlin might fuck it all up doesn't negate their relative value which offsets Ben's.
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Even with 11-5 they did not make the playoffs that year. Also, the year before was 18-1 (shut it Kev :lol) and 11-5 is a huge drop off.
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And the year after that, WITH Brady, they went 10-6.
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Yep. That's when Belichick knew this team was not responding to him. We saw that in a day in the life Bill Belichick on the NFL Network. That's when they gutted everything and they brought in the two rookie tight ends. You know the greatest tight end ever and the murderer.
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While I agree with the "how important to their team are they" metric, I don't think it's fair to penalize a player because his coach is so good. In any case, I think the eyeball test kind of sums it up. Pitt has the leading receiver and 3rd leading RB playing alongside Ben. If he gets hurt they have two guys who can carry a game on their own. The fact that Tomlin might fuck it all up doesn't negate their relative value which offsets Ben's.
Both player's numbers greatly decrease without Ben under center. AB's numbers when Vick and Jones took over for a stretch of games a few years ago were pedestrian at best. I can try to do some homework and pull up the exact stats if anyone is interested, but they were a little bit ugly.
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I have no problem with Brady winning MVP. The patriots would be nothing this year without him. Now, if Wentz didn't get hurt I'd prefer him. Love Gurley but there are a lot of good players on that team.
The trouble with that line of reasoning is that they DO win without him. 3-1 last year, 11-5 in 2008. Contrast those records with how the Packers and Steelers for example fare with backup QBs over the years.
Let's not read too much into that 3-1 start, though. That was TOTAL system football there, and the wheels were starting to come off the wagon when Brady returned. Garoppolo was hurt and that stretch - I believe - proved to Belichick that Brissett was never going to be the guy. The offense in that stretch was simplistic on a Pop Warner level, and never would have survived two times around the division. You saw something similar in 2008 with Cassel. The games seemed to be blowouts or very close, and the Pats - uncharacteristically - didn't do so hot in the close ones.
I think that's a testament to the coaching staff, that they are willing to scrap the entire gameplan on a game-by-game basis (and why Wade Phillips got - and deserved - so many kudos for the Denver Super Bowl a couple years ago).
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So to summarize the last page... Ben is as good as Brady...? :biggrin:
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So to summarize the last page... Ben is as good as Brady...? :biggrin:
I'm not inferring that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do think that he is usually greatly under-rated.
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So to summarize the last page... Ben is as good as Brady...? :biggrin:
I'm not inferring that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do think that he is usually greatly under-rated.
Who? Ben? I totally agree.
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So to summarize the last page... Ben is as good as Brady...? :biggrin:
I'm not inferring that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do think that he is usually greatly under-rated.
Who? Ben? I totally agree.
Yeah. I do think that a lot of his physical skills that he used to rely on in his younger days have abandoned him, but he's still one of a handful of QB's that are well above in the league.
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I think Roethlisberger is one of the more exciting QBs to watch, because he seems old school in the sense of dropping back and finding a way to scrape and make a play, similar to how Elway and Favre were.
On the flip side, I have never thought Manning and Brady were that exciting to watch. It's like, it's obvious that watching them dissect defenses in a methodical way is awesome from a technical standpoint, but it's not always fun to watch. I mean, watching Brady throw a 1-yard pass to Edelman who turns it into a 9-yard gain is great from a strategic standpoint, but it's not exciting football. We see way too many of those boring-type plays in the NFL now, which is one reason why the product is disintegrating.
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We see way too many of those boring-type plays in the NFL now, which is one reason why the product is disintegrating.
Except with the Pats we are seeing it translated in to championships. With many other teams, we are seeing it translate to mediocrity.
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As a Ravens fan, I've seen more than my share of Ben. I admire the hell out of his durability, toughness, of the almost impossible task of tackling him, and I can't wait for him to retire. ;)
Brady is the 'master'. In a game against Balto last year, I can't tell you how many times I noticed how well the receivers were covered, the opening for a completion was maybe the size of a basketball hoop......and that's where the ball was thrown. It's that way week after week. And I can't wait for him to retire. ;)
Manning had that 'sixth sense' about him. That playoff loss to the Irsays in '06 will forever sting, but is tempered with that Mile High win in '12.
Excitement is all kind of relative, I guess. Bart Starr was never an exciting QB, but he did a thing or two to excite Packer fans.
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On the flip side, I have never thought Manning and Brady were that exciting to watch. It's like, it's obvious that watching them dissect defenses in a methodical way is awesome from a technical standpoint, but it's not always fun to watch. I mean, watching Brady throw a 1-yard pass to Edelman who turns it into a 9-yard gain is great from a strategic standpoint, but it's not exciting football. We see way too many of those boring-type plays in the NFL now, which is one reason why the product is disintegrating.
Honesty this is why I watch football. If I want nonstop excitement, I’ll watch hockey. I enjoy the strategic aspect of the game far more than I enjoy the violent aspect of it.
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So to summarize the last page... Ben is as good as Brady...? :biggrin:
I'm not inferring that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do think that he is usually greatly under-rated.
Who? Ben? I totally agree.
Yeah. I do think that a lot of his physical skills that he used to rely on in his younger days have abandoned him, but he's still one of a handful of QB's that are well above in the league.
Well, my original comment was certainly a joke, I’m a Ben guy, but at this point I consider Brady the greatest to ever play the position...
That said, he is frequently underrated in a variety of ways. Dude is a stud, a champion, and a nailed on hall of fame QB that will go down as the best QB of a pretty distinguished franchise.
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I think he is rated about right. Despite never really being elite, he was usually right near the top of the 2nd tier of QBs, and he won't have any problem making the Hall. He is no Brady, Manning, Rodgers or Brees, but there is nothing wrong with going down as the 5th best QB of your era when the guys above you were that good.
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I think he is rated about right. Despite never really being elite, he was usually right near the top of the 2nd tier of QBs, and he won't have any problem making the Hall. He is no Brady, Manning, Rodgers or Brees, but there is nothing wrong with going down as the 5th best QB of your era when the guys above you were that good.
That right there proves how underrated he is! :lol
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???
How so?
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???
How so?
Because it underrated him... at this point in the guys career with all he has done, to not consider him an elite QB is nuts.
I know you and I disagree on this and have gone back and forth on it before, so I know where you are coming from, I just totally disagree.
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Third attempt to type this ( cause I hate the stillers , however ) , ... Ben has played at a high level throughout his career against some very tough defenses YEAR AFTER YEAR , often with less than an ideal supporting cast. I have serious doubts that any current QB would fare as well under the same conditions. Ben is a tough sob if nothing else.
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Ben is a tough sob if nothing else.
Coming back in after that brutal sack by Burfect a couple playoffs ago .... to lead the game-winning drive proves that beyond any shadow of a doubt.
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Ben is tough as nails. His magic is on the run passing but it's also an issue getting hit like he does.
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I think he is rated about right. Despite never really being elite, he was usually right near the top of the 2nd tier of QBs, and he won't have any problem making the Hall. He is no Brady, Manning, Rodgers or Brees, but there is nothing wrong with going down as the 5th best QB of your era when the guys above you were that good.
Brady and Manning are on a different level. I put Ben with Rogers and Brees, and in the absence of Brady, that is elite.
Calling Ben a 2nd tier QB is not right in my eyes. He's been one of the 5 best QBs his entire career it seems.
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^
Yup, except I put Brees a notch down.
Class guy, absolutely great QB.......who gets to play in a dome 9+ times a year.
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Nice video featuring Belichick and his old coach from the 70's.
https://www.patriots.com/video/2017/12/29/nfl-films-presents-bill-belichick-and-rick-forzano
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???
How so?
Because it underrated him... at this point in the guys career with all he has done, to not consider him an elite QB is nuts.
I know you and I disagree on this and have gone back and forth on it before, so I know where you are coming from, I just totally disagree.
Okay, but when you say "with all he has done," what exactly do you mean? His first Super Bowl title was before he had really evolved into being elite/great/whatever you want to call him (similar to Brady for his first couple rings), and he he has ZERO MVP awards, no All-Pro team achievements to brag about, etc. He has always hovered just below that elite tier of QBs, so it is hard for me to call a guy elite when he has never really consistently been elite (from season to season, not looking at a game here or a game there). Consider that he followed up his 2 best statistical seasons (2007 and 2014) with blah seasons. The truly elite guys are elite year in and year out.
Third attempt to type this ( cause I hate the stillers , however ) , ... Ben has played at a high level throughout his career against some very tough defenses YEAR AFTER YEAR , often with less than an ideal supporting cast. I have serious doubts that any current QB would fare as well under the same conditions. Ben is a tough sob if nothing else.
Wait, what?
He has had a top 10 defense in 9 of his 13 seasons (and the number 1 defense in 4 of them).
The last five seasons, he has had the guy who the best WR of his generation (Antonio Brown) AND one of the best RBs of the 21st century (LeVeon Bell).
Prior to that, he had for the first seven years of his career Hines Ward, who, while no Hall of Famer, was really good. And while their peaks weren't long-lasting, Mike Wallace and Willie Parker were nothing to sneeze at there for a while.
Brady and Manning are on a different level. I put Ben with Rogers and Brees, and in the absence of Brady, that is elite.
Calling Ben a 2nd tier QB is not right in my eyes. He's been one of the 5 best QBs his entire career it seems.
With all due respect, there is no way on God's green earth that Ben is on the same level as Rodgers.
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With all due respect, there is no way on God's green earth that Ben is on the same level as Rodgers.
Is he better than Rodgers? Maybe not. Is he in Rodgers' class? I believe he is.
The TAC Research Center will be looking into this today.
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Regular season TD-INT ratio:
Rodgers: 313-78
Roethlisberger: 325-173
Playoffs TD-INT ratio:
Rodgers: 36-10
Roethlisberger: 25-23
Imagine if Rodgers had had the number 1 defense in the NFL 4 times already. He probably would have caught Montana's ring count already and would be threatening to catch Brady's.
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I think Roethlisberger is one of the more exciting QBs to watch, because he seems old school in the sense of dropping back and finding a way to scrape and make a play, similar to how Elway and Favre were.
Bingo. Elway has always been my favorite QB, and it's impossible to not love watching Favre be Favre. Ben has the added advantage of being one of the toughest guys on the field. That leads to situations when he gets to play injured as hell and still be the gunslinger, which is about as good as football can get. The 2015 AFC WC game is known mostly for Burfict and Pacman imploding magnificently, but overshadowed was some fantastic play by an injured Rothlesburger toughing it out for the team. I've never been a fan, but I'm certainly an admirer of the guy as a football player.
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It really can't be said too many times that Mike Tomlin is a fucking idiot.
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The end of the NE/Pitt game was a clear demonstration that Tomlin is not a great head coach.
The Jesse James play was literally reviewed for nearly 4 minutes. A great coach has his team ready for whatever is coming next. You have to know that the play could be called a no-catch and you might have 2nd and goal from the 9 or 10, but nope, the Steelers looked like a team that had no clue what to do once the James TD was overruled, hence the stupid 2nd down play (throwing to a guy running a crossing pattern who has no shot of scoring or getting out of bounds, meaning you have to hurry the 3rd down play) and then a 3rd down play where everyone on offense was not on the same page (Bell and several WRs just stood there and didn't even run a route while Ben was panicking and throwing the pick). It was laughably bad execution.
Meanwhile, the Patriots looked like a team that was ready for anything and made the play to win the game.
It's no wonder that Belichick always makes Tomlin his bitch, despite the Steelers usually having better players (except QB and TE).
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Regular season TD-INT ratio:
Rodgers: 313-78
Roethlisberger: 325-173
Playoffs TD-INT ratio:
Rodgers: 36-10
Roethlisberger: 25-23
Imagine if Rodgers had had the number 1 defense in the NFL 4 times already. He probably would have caught Montana's ring count already and would be threatening to catch Brady's.
Well, those are impressive passing stats for sure, yet from what I can see, and I've only been gleaning stats since 2008 (When Rodgers became a full time starter), Rogers has a 104 to 94 edge in Passer Rating, yet the Packer's have only scored 3 more points per game in that time period than the Steelers.
Each team has 5 Division titles with the Packers making the playoffs 8 times compared to 7 for the Steelers. Ben is 2-1 in Conference championship during those years (3-2 overall), while Rodgers is 1-3.
...still crunching some numbers...
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*stats that show I'm right*
*other stats that show I'm more right*
:corn
Can't wait to see who can cherry-pick the stats that make their case the strongest. :lol
Spoiler alert - neither of you will convince the other that they are more right/wrong.
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*stats that show I'm right*
*other stats that show I'm more right*
:corn
:rollin
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Haha, I was thinking that, too.
"If I dig long enough, I can find a stat or two that shows Ben is Rodgers' equal!!!...while ignoring the countless other ones where it ain't close." :lol :lol
Team success is the only edge Ben has, and the Steelers have quite obviously done a much better job at surrounding Ben with a great team around him for most of his career than the Packers have since 2008 with Rodgers (they are trash without him).
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I'll leave this to the statisticians, but I'm on TAC's side here that Big Ben is on the same level as Rodgers. The general memory test would suggest that Ben had the tougher divisional opponents over the last 12 years (Browns notwithstanding). Bengals/Ravens have been (by-and-large) better teams than Bears/Vikings/Lions.
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The general memory test would suggest that Ben had the tougher divisional opponents over the last 12 years (Browns notwithstanding). Bengals/Ravens have been (by-and-large) better teams than Bears/Vikings/Lions.
So I was just about to post this very information. I would've thought the same thing, but the aggregate records over the last 10 years is the AFC North(Not counting the Steelers) is 214-260-3 and the NFC North (not counting GB) is 220-256-1.
The AFC North has easily the team with the best record (Ravens 94-65) and the worst (Browns 38-121). The Bengals (82-74-3) and the Vikings (84-74-1) are a wash.
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Haha, I was thinking that, too.
"If I dig long enough, I can find a stat or two that shows Ben is Rodgers' equal!!!...while ignoring the countless other ones where it ain't close." :lol :lol
Team success is the only edge Ben has, and the Steelers have quite obviously done a much better job at surrounding Ben with a great team around him for most of his career than the Packers have since 2008 with Rodgers (they are trash without him).
So Rodgers is a better passer. Big whoops.
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But here's is what I am saying. I am not saying Ben is better than Rodgers. What I am saying is that they are not in different classes.
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The general memory test would suggest that Ben had the tougher divisional opponents over the last 12 years (Browns notwithstanding). Bengals/Ravens have been (by-and-large) better teams than Bears/Vikings/Lions.
So I was just about to post this very information. I would've thought the same thing, but the aggregate records over the last 10 years is the AFC North(Not counting the Steelers) is 214-260-3 and the NFC North (not counting GB) is 220-256-1.
The AFC North has easily the team with the best record (Ravens 94-65) and the worst (Browns 38-121). The Bengals (82-74-3) and the Vikings (84-74-1) are a wash.
Well suck me sideways.
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Well suck me sideways.
Um...I'd rather just let Kev win the argument. ;D
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C'mon Browns, what the hell? Don't let the dream of achieving the perfect season get away from you now!
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But here's is what I am saying. I am not saying Ben is better than Rodgers. What I am saying is that they are not in different classes.
Agreed.
And Kev, back to a question you asked on the last page - what has Ben done? When I have the free time I can sit down and dig up all his accomplishments, but for real? He’s done a lot, the fact that some years he a good supporting cast (but remember some years he didn’t) doesn’t invalidate the guys accomplishments.
That said I’m totally with you on the Tomlin post, the unprepared nature of the team after the James TD was overturned was the perfect snapshot of his continual screw ups as a coach.
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Does anyone else feel like the Browns are starting to undermine the importance of the first overall draft pick? They keep getting it, and their picks never make them any better.
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Glad the 'snide' is somewhat over for my long ago forlorn Lion fans and friends.
I am sure that similar jerseys will be a hot item along Lake Erie in brown and orange
(https://lowdownblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/lionsowen16jersey.jpg)
(https://eppsnet.com/images/owen-16.jpg)
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Does anyone else feel like the Browns are starting to undermine the importance of the first overall draft pick draft?
Yes.
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What happened? Did Philly play their practice squad today? :lol So much for home field advantage. :p
Does anyone else feel like the Browns are starting to undermine the importance of the first overall draft pick draft?
Yes.
Yeah, the 1st round pick after a shitty season isn’t much of a consolation prize.
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So Rodgers is a better passer. Big whoops.
Because one QB being a better passer than another means nothing? :lol :lol :biggrin:
But here's is what I am saying. I am not saying Ben is better than Rodgers. What I am saying is that they are not in different classes.
Except that they are. By just every individual measure imaginable, Rodgers is in a different class.
Does anyone else feel like the Browns are starting to undermine the importance of the first overall draft pick? They keep getting it, and their picks never make them any better.
Because their culture is a joke. They could've taken Carson Wentz last year and found a way to screw it up.
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Seahawks playing with typical post-SB49 Seahawk heart. See you guys next season! Well, the ones who are still on the team anyway.
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Aaron Rodgers is coming to Foxboro next year!!!!!!!
www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/new-england-patriots-2018-schedule-set
R-O-D-G-E-R-S!!!!
(https://blog.mtgprice.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/DIscount-Double-Check.jpg)
Commented Rodgers:" My Twitter pal @Kev Shmev (pictured above) told me some dude out there was talkin' smack. F#%K Big Ben".
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But here's is what I am saying. I am not saying Ben is better than Rodgers. What I am saying is that they are not in different classes.
I agree with this. If I'm starting a football team, and they tell me "look, you're going to get Ben in his prime, or Aaron in his prime, and we'll flip a coin for it", I'm good with that. I have to build different teams, perhaps, but they are both great ways to start an offense.
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Right, and for all of Rogers' stats, it amounts to a Field Goal difference per game.
It's the Manning vs Brady argument.
And I hate the "If Rogers had Belichick, he'd have a ton of rings too" argument. Puleeze. Ben certainly didn't have Belichick and still has 3 rings.
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Ben has 2 rings, chief. :P :lol
A FG a game is significant over the course of a 16-game season. The Patriots scored 458 points this season; the Lions scored 410. That is a difference of a FG a game, so I guess that means Brady and Stafford were on the same level this year, right?
Also, let me know when the Packers get Rodgers a RB nearly as good as LeVeon Bell or a WR as good as Antonio Brown. :corn
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Poor Bills fans. They now have to hope Dalton comes back to beat the Ravens for them to make the playoffs.
Meanwhile, the Titans were basically handed a playoff spot today by getting to play a Jags team that had nothing to play for.
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Ben has 2 rings, chief. :P :lol
Ah..that's right.
#inflategate
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I will say, the infatuation of Pats fans to suddenly find ways to make Rodgers seems less great are interesting. I have seen it in a lot of places. It's like they got wind of the fact last year that most considered Rodgers and Brady 1a and 1b (currently, not all-time), so now they have to find ways to nit pick Rodgers to make him seem less great, because they can't stand anyone being compared to the Golden Boy. I guess with Peyton retired, they miss having a great QB to trash, so Rodgers is the easy target.
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OMG, that play in the Bengals/Ravens game!!!!!! :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek
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I will say, the infatuation of Pats fans to suddenly find ways to make Rodgers seems less great are interesting. I have seen it in a lot of places. It's like they got wind of the fact last year that most considered Rodgers and Brady 1a and 1b (currently, not all-time), so now they have to find ways to nit pick Rodgers to make him seem less great, because they can't stand anyone being compared to the Golden Boy. I guess with Peyton retired, they miss having a great QB to trash, so Rodgers is the easy target.
No Kev, that's not it at all. At least for me. Trust me, there is plenty of Brady ball washing around here.
Look, I am in no way trying to discredit anything Rogers has done. My whole entire point is about Ben Roethlislberger.
Look, yes, I think Brady is the best QB in the league right now. Yes, I think Rodgers is the second best. But you can throw all the stats you want at me, and I just don't feel that Roethlisberger, even though he may not be better than Rodgers, is a whole class of QB's below him.
I'm not trying to discredit Rodgers, I'm trying to credit Roethlisberger. Don't label me as some homer Brady bum. This conversation has nothing to do with Brady.
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I will say, the infatuation of Pats fans to suddenly find ways to make Rodgers seems less great are interesting. I have seen it in a lot of places. It's like they got wind of the fact last year that most considered Rodgers and Brady 1a and 1b (currently, not all-time), so now they have to find ways to nit pick Rodgers to make him seem less great, because they can't stand anyone being compared to the Golden Boy. I guess with Peyton retired, they miss having a great QB to trash, so Rodgers is the easy target.
Hey hey! Settle down. Rodgers is better.
Also, thank you Cincy!! The Ravens give me nightmares.
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LOL Ravens.
Looks like Black Monday will be anti-climactic. I wonder if they even let Del Rio get back to Oakland before firing him.
Pretty crappy wildcard weekend coming up, by the looks of it.
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NFL Network is already reporting Del Rio has been fired.
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LOL Ravens.
Looks like Black Monday will be anti-climactic. I wonder if they even let Del Rio get back to Oakland before firing him.
Pretty crappy wildcard weekend coming up, by the looks of it.
Isn't every wildcard weekend crappy of late?
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James Harrison effectively doubled his season production today. Three tackles plus 2 assists, 2 sacks, and a forced fumble. As far as I know there were no fatalities.
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Yeah, he was around the ball.
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I'm watching this Bills-Dolphins game, and while I'm excited for Buffalo, I watch when they cut to Tie Rod Taylor on the sideline, and he's sitting slumped on the bench, staring at the scoreboard with his tongue sticking out of his mouth, in a 13-pt game where momentum is completely moving in Miami's direction.
Contrast that with Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Prescott, Ben, Brees... all working with teammates and studying film/photos/Surface Tablets to get the advantage. The difference between good players and CHAMPIONS.
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I will say, the infatuation of Pats fans to suddenly find ways to make Rodgers seems less great are interesting. I have seen it in a lot of places. It's like they got wind of the fact last year that most considered Rodgers and Brady 1a and 1b (currently, not all-time), so now they have to find ways to nit pick Rodgers to make him seem less great, because they can't stand anyone being compared to the Golden Boy. I guess with Peyton retired, they miss having a great QB to trash, so Rodgers is the easy target.
This is nonsense. This is the same as the nonsense around Portnoy and Sons of Apollo. If you're not a fan boy, you're bashing. Personally? I love Aaron Rodgers. If I was a GM, I'd be happy as a clam to have him on my team. Having said that, he's not Brady. Yeah, he has some spectacular wins, and he's a human highlight reel. But Brady wins ALL* the games, not just the spectacular endings.
* Not literally "all" the games but he wins the grinders, the air-it-outs, the must-haves and the garbage games. No, he's not perfect, but he's as good as they get.
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James Harrison effectively doubled his season production today. Three tackles plus 2 assists, 2 sacks, and a forced fumble. As far as I know there were no fatalities.
Did you think they signed Rae Carruth?
ATL wins their game, knocking the Seahawks out of the playoffs, and then Blair Walsh misses a potential game-winning FG. Priceless.
And FU Bills, now the Mariners have the longest playoff drought in the 4 major sports.
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I'm watching this Bills-Dolphins game, and while I'm excited for Buffalo, I watch when they cut to Tie Rod Taylor on the sideline, and he's sitting slumped on the bench, staring at the scoreboard with his tongue sticking out of his mouth, in a 13-pt game where momentum is completely moving in Miami's direction.
Contrast that with Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Prescott, Ben, Brees... all working with teammates and studying film/photos/Surface Tablets to get the advantage. The difference between good players and CHAMPIONS.
And.....ten seconds later all those QBs are just sitting there, and ten seconds later Tyrod is talking to a teammate or on the phones upstairs talking about a play. I hate close ups of QBs on the field calling signals, I hate close ups of QBs sitting on the sidelines ('they're not playing defense, Mr. Cameraman and Mr. Director). I've seen way too many pictures of Ben, Brady, Flacco et al 'just sitting there'. Same goes for stone faced head coaches, assistant coaches, or coaches talking behind their play cards.
Now, get off my yard!
<mike drop>
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:lol
Mike drop. Lol
It's his on field play that matters.
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<mike Corey drop.
(https://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/corey-coleman-drop.jpg)
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Seahawks playing with typical post-SB49 Seahawk heart. See you guys next season! Well, the ones who are still on the team anyway.
Yep. :sad: ESPN made a good point: Their numbers were almost identical as last year, but the Rams being better made the difference this year.
So, um, go Rams!
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A spiked ball hits the Pats Bademosi in the chin, then he flops! :lol
https://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/jets-robby-anderson-spikes-ball-patriots-johnson-bademosi-flops/ipzylks9mp6q1ghg0fvd9o5gt
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Niners finish the season with the only 5 game winning streak in the league. Chiefs are behind them as the only team with 4 in a row. Ya'll enjoy the post-season, I'll be getting ready for next season. :D
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A spiked ball hits the Pats Bademosi in the chin, then he flops! :lol
https://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/jets-robby-anderson-spikes-ball-patriots-johnson-bademosi-flops/ipzylks9mp6q1ghg0fvd9o5gt
Where's the soccer refs when ya need them? :lol
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Yellow card! :lol
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I'm watching this Bills-Dolphins game, and while I'm excited for Buffalo, I watch when they cut to Tie Rod Taylor on the sideline, and he's sitting slumped on the bench, staring at the scoreboard with his tongue sticking out of his mouth, in a 13-pt game where momentum is completely moving in Miami's direction.
Contrast that with Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Prescott, Ben, Brees... all working with teammates and studying film/photos/Surface Tablets to get the advantage. The difference between good players and CHAMPIONS.
And.....ten seconds later all those QBs are just sitting there, and ten seconds later Tyrod is talking to a teammate or on the phones upstairs talking about a play. I hate close ups of QBs on the field calling signals, I hate close ups of QBs sitting on the sidelines ('they're not playing defense, Mr. Cameraman and Mr. Director). I've seen way too many pictures of Ben, Brady, Flacco et al 'just sitting there'. Same goes for stone faced head coaches, assistant coaches, or coaches talking behind their play cards.
Now, get off my yard!
<mike drop>
Nah, I'm sticking with my assessment. It wasn't "one screen shot". It was at least three that I saw, and his numbers in the second half - particularly in the fourth quarter - do not change the equation one bit. He disappeared.
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I do not see any AFC first round team winning against the Patriots or Steelers.
The NFC may be more likely to have a first round team play for the NFC championship.
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Browns coach said in his post-game interview "I can't do anything about it." If that's the case then why are you even in coaching?! One of a coach's biggest jobs is to motivate the players to play well, surely?
It's a shame there isn't promotion or relegation involved here, whereby the worst teams get dropped down to a lower league. The worst teams will just finish bottom, knowing they still get to enjoy a cut of the massive wealth the NFL generates without fully deserving it.
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Watched most of the panthers game last night, curious what the hell happened to Cam.
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Browns coach said in his post-game interview "I can't do anything about it." If that's the case then why are you even in coaching?! One of a coach's biggest jobs is to motivate the players to play well, surely?
Marvin Lewis said pretty much the same thing after the playoff implosion a couple of years ago. "Burfict's on the field and I'm on the sideline. What am I supposed to do about it?" Shit like that is automatic termination if I'm running that show.
So Elway gets a big contract extension. Am I the only one that thinks he's the biggest problem in Denver? Manning retired 2 years ago and he's essentially done nothing whatsoever to replace him, and next year will most likely be more of the same. All he really needed was somebody competent. Seems to me he squandered the last couple of years of a great team. Is he really the guy you want to rebuild the thing?
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I do not see any AFC first round team winning against the Patriots or Steelers.
The NFC may be more likely to have a first round team play for the NFC championship.
I think Kansas City could beat the Patriots or Steelers. They have the talent but said talent would all have to show up and play lights out. The Jags defense could keep the game close too. As a Chiefs and Vikings fan I'm pleased with the match-ups. We'll see what happens.
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So Elway gets a big contract extension. Am I the only one that thinks he's the biggest problem in Denver? Manning retired 2 years ago and he's essentially done nothing whatsoever to replace him, and next year will most likely be more of the same. All he really needed was somebody competent. Seems to me he squandered the last couple of years of a great team. Is he really the guy you want to rebuild the thing?
Siemian and Lynch are both competent (hell, even Osweiler might meet that low standard). The offensive line is terrible, as is the play calling. With that being the case, C.J. Anderson cannot be the #1 back. It was a very painful season, and I'm not optimistic that next season will be much better.
On a completely unrelated note, when the broadcast got switched over to the Bengals v. Ravens game, I caught a random comment about John Harbaugh complaining about a penalty "to Sarah Thomas who wasn't the official who threw the flag." I was not aware that the NFL had a female official (this having been her third season, so maybe I'm the only one who didn't know this). Props to the NFL for this. I also learned that there is no longer a "head linesman" in the NFL. The NFL changed the designation to "down judge" to make it gender neutral.
My predictions for the wild card games:
Chiefs
Rams
Bills
Panthers
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Elway definitely deserves a lot of the blame for this past season's mess. I am not sure I agree with the decision to bring Vance Joseph back. Hopefully, the rumors of them going after Kirk Cousins are true. I'd be happy with him at QB.
Also, how in the world do Marvin Lewis and Hue Jackson still have NFL coaching jobs?
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I'm with you on Vance Joseph. Seems to be a big mistake.
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Also, how in the world do Marvin Lewis and Hue Jackson still have NFL coaching jobs?
Good question. The current incarnation of the Browns has existed for 19 seasons. during that time, the team has had nine head coaches, nine general managers, three owners, two .500 or above seasons, one playoff appearance and zero playoff victories. The team has won 41 games over the past 10 seasons and only 4 games over the past 3 seasons. The franchise is the epitome of failure and ought to be burned to the ground.
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Yep. Knowing them, they will take Baker Mayfield, who has bust written all over him.
I was surprised to see Jim Caldwell get the axe in Detroit. 36-28 over four seasons is pretty good for a franchise used to not winning.
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Maybe they have their eye on someone else.
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If I am "someone else," I am pulling a John Elway/Eli Manning and publicly stating that I will not sign with the Cleveland Browns. Why would any top prospect in their right mind want to be stuck with that franchise for 6+ years?
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Hasn't the kid from USC already done that?
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While I don't like that level of extortion from a 22 year old who has never played a down in the NFL, I can't say I would blame someone taking that route. But what's their leverage? Sit our a year? Play in the Arena League (is that still a thing?)
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I think Rosen has said it, not Darnold.
I have no problem with a prospect having a large say in where they are going to end up working for the next 6+ years. If you are a top QB prospect, you have a shit ton of leverage.
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Yeah, it was Rosen from UCLA that said it. I think that he (and Darnold) both have a year of elligibility left, so neither one of them would be "forced to go to Cleveland" in this year's draft. However, it's more than likely that Cleveland will be drafting near the top next year as well.
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I have no problem with a prospect having a large say in where they are going to end up working for the next 6+ years.
Doesn't that undermine the whole point of a draft?
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I have no problem with a prospect having a large say in where they are going to end up working for the next 6+ years.
Doesn't that undermine the whole point of a draft?
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I have no problem with a prospect having a large say in where they are going to end up working for the next 6+ years.
Doesn't that undermine the whole point of a draft?
I agree - playing professional sports is a privilege, not a right. If you want to play, you go where you are drafted to. You may not like it, but not everyone can play for the same, winning team.
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Isn't he effectively saying that he'd rather not play than play for Cleveland? Cleveland can therefore not draft him, draft him and hope he's bluffing, draft him and trade him, or draft him and potentially lose a number one pick for somebody that sits a season out.
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I'm watching this Bills-Dolphins game, and while I'm excited for Buffalo, I watch when they cut to Tie Rod Taylor on the sideline, and he's sitting slumped on the bench, staring at the scoreboard with his tongue sticking out of his mouth, in a 13-pt game where momentum is completely moving in Miami's direction.
Contrast that with Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Prescott, Ben, Brees... all working with teammates and studying film/photos/Surface Tablets to get the advantage. The difference between good players and CHAMPIONS.
I could not agree more. And, yeah, you can cherry pick shots where some QB's happen to not be looking at film, when there are plenty more of the QB doing that very thing, and vice versa. But there are clearly guys who put in the effort to do whatever it takes, and guys who clearly don't. That was one of the biggest issues I had with trying to defend Kaepernick during his two good years and then the first year of his "slide." He had some spectacular on-field moments. And there were lots of stories during his first full season about him being the first guy at the practice facility every morning, etc. But on the sidelines, the guy did nothing except sit and brood, while his contemporaries that were catching up to him or surpassing him were clearly working hard to find any edge they could to help their team during games.
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I have no problem with a prospect having a large say in where they are going to end up working for the next 6+ years.
Doesn't that undermine the whole point of a draft?
I agree - playing professional sports is a privilege, not a right. If you want to play, you go where you are drafted to. You may not like it, but not everyone can play for the same, winning team.
I think el Barto is saying this already, but whether it's a privilege or a right is immaterial. If I'm willing to NOT PLAY AT ALL versus play for Cleveland, that's my prerogative. I can opt not to sign. It's not as if these players are breaking the rules, and by announcing that, they are only saying "this is the choice I will make, now you make yours". If I'm Cleveland, and so-and-so won't play for me, I'm at least going to try to get what I can from someone else for that player. Someone like the Pats will be interested in what I have to say.
Though I have to say, that doesn't really work out for the drafting team (SD - No Super Bowls, NYG - Two; Elway and the Colts, at least until Manning came on board). And for the record, the Browns - as the Ravens - HAVE won a Super Bowl.
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I don't remember exactly what Rosen said, but the talk around Southern California is that Rosen has all but committed to the draft, whereas Darnold is probably returning to USC. If the Browns draft Rosen and he doesn't want to play there, I think his only realistic option is to sit out. Isn't it a rule that he can't go back to college if he hires an agent (or maybe that's only basketball?). The Arena Football League does still exist, but it presently has only four teams. I suppose maybe he could go play in Canada. I sure as hell wouldn't want to play for the Browns.
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Why would you not want to play for the worst team in the league? They have talent on that team. Good WR's, good O-Line, Good RBs. Having the chance to turn around the shit show and becoming a legend pretty quickly would be something I'd want in a player. If you can't accept the challenge I wouldn't want him anyway.
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Why would you not want to play for the worst team in the league? They have talent on that team. Good WR's, good O-Line, Good RBs. Having the chance to turn around the shit show and becoming a legend pretty quickly would be something I'd want in a player. If you can't accept the challenge I wouldn't want him anyway.
I get where you're coming from, but this is why: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Browns_starting_quarterbacks
First of all, this team has had 28 starting quarterbacks in the 19 years that the "new" version of the team been in existence. It's where quarterbacks go to die. Would it be great to be the guy who turns it around? Sure. It would also be great to be the military leader to makes East Timor the world's greatest military power. It would be great in both cases, but in both cases it's just not realistic.
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^Yeah, exactly that. And there is no indication that the ownership has the desire or ability to turn things around or do anything more than lip service, or that coaching has the ability to do anything. Much like where the 49ers were. And that is why I wrote them off and refused to support. The difference there is, York said he had a plan and vision, and was committed to making the team great again, and he made some actual moves, not just in terms of coaching and players, but in terms of front office, that seem to support that. It at least SEEMS like he finally realizes he doesn't have all the answers himself and didn't have the right pieces in place that had the answers either, and he has taken steps to get the right people in place. So I am cautiously VERY optimistic about my team, which I did not see happening the end of the Harbaugh era. Cleveland fans have no such reason for any optimism. Neither does any QB who stands to be drafted by them.
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From ESPN: "Newly re-signed Marvin Lewis says Bengals will 'start from scratch'"
In a related story, Martha Stewart says it is ok to bake bread from scratch using 16 year old milk.
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From ESPN: "Newly re-signed Marvin Lewis says Bengals will 'start from scratch'"
In a related story, Martha Stewart says it is ok to bake bread from scratch using 16 year old milk.
Martha Stewart also says it's ok to do your taxes from scratch using the 1999 version of Turbo Tax.
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I have no problem with a prospect having a large say in where they are going to end up working for the next 6+ years.
Doesn't that undermine the whole point of a draft?
I agree - playing professional sports is a privilege, not a right. If you want to play, you go where you are drafted to. You may not like it, but not everyone can play for the same, winning team.
While I agree with the bolded, the amount of power and control NFL franchises have over players they draft is so absurd that, again, I have no issue with players doing what they can to influence where they end up going.
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While I agree with the bolded, the amount of power and control NFL franchises have over players they draft is so absurd that, again, I have no issue with players doing what they can to influence where they end up going.
That's kinda where I fall with this as well, if I'm not mistaken, the NFL is one of only a few leagues (at least in the US) where the players contracts or a portion of their contracts aren't guaranteed at all. Meaning a team can cut a guy anytime and the contract is simply cut off. That's a lot of power for a franchise to have, so I'm okay with the players trying to get leverage however they can.
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So I heard this stat today. If the Pats made the SB, Brady would be in playing in the SB for half his playing career.
Discounting the first year (2000) on the bench as a 4th string QB (imaging carrying 4 QB's on your roster?) from 2001 to 2017 Brady would have gone to the SB 8 of 16 years. That's nuts.
Still have to make it this year for this to be true.
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That's kinda where I fall with this as well, if I'm not mistaken, the NFL is one of only a few leagues (at least in the US) where the players contracts or a portion of their contracts aren't guaranteed at all. Meaning a team can cut a guy anytime and the contract is simply cut off.
Lots of employees are 'At will' and can be fired at any time. I understand playing pro football is its own beast, careers are short, healthy implications are huge, but why should a franchise not be able to release a guy they don't want on their team?
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It is true that the contracts are not guaranteed while other league have guaranteed contacts. That's why there is the money up front. Front loaded for many players.
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That's kinda where I fall with this as well, if I'm not mistaken, the NFL is one of only a few leagues (at least in the US) where the players contracts or a portion of their contracts aren't guaranteed at all. Meaning a team can cut a guy anytime and the contract is simply cut off.
Lots of employees are 'At will' and can be fired at any time. I understand playing pro football is its own beast, careers are short, healthy implications are huge, but why should a franchise not be able to release a guy they don't want on their team?
They totally should be able to do it if they want. But it's worth pointing out that the MLB, NHL, and NBA are not like that. Players can't just get cut like they can in the NFL (and be totally out their contract money), therefore NFL franchises hold a lot more power over players than in other pro-leagues. That makes me feel less bad for teams when players are trying to leverage power when they have some, that's all.
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While I agree with the bolded, the amount of power and control NFL franchises have over players they draft is so absurd that, again, I have no issue with players doing what they can to influence where they end up going.
That's kinda where I fall with this as well, if I'm not mistaken, the NFL is one of only a few leagues (at least in the US) where the players contracts or a portion of their contracts aren't guaranteed at all. Meaning a team can cut a guy anytime and the contract is simply cut off. That's a lot of power for a franchise to have, so I'm okay with the players trying to get leverage however they can.
I'm on the same page, and keep in mind that a player's "leverage" is limited to refusing to play and sitting on his thumbs (or going to some D-list league) until he is either eligible to be drafted by someone else or becomes a free agent. I don't know exactly what the NFL CBA says about those things, but I'm not aware of anyone who actually sat out and went back into the draft or sat out long enough to become a free agent. There's no way in hell that the NFL would adopt a CBA that binds a drafted player in perpetuity to the team that drafts him (and I'm skeptical that such a provision would even be legal).
So I heard this stat today. If the Pats made the SB, Brady would be in playing in the SB for half his playing career.
Discounting the first year (2000) on the bench as a 4th string QB (imaging carrying 4 QB's on your roster?) from 2001 to 2017 Brady would have gone to the SB 8 of 16 years. That's nuts.
Still have to make it this year for this to be true.
Even if you discount the 2000 season, Brady has played 17, not 16, seasons, and 8 < 1/2 x 17. Or are you also discounting the 2008 season?
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That's kinda where I fall with this as well, if I'm not mistaken, the NFL is one of only a few leagues (at least in the US) where the players contracts or a portion of their contracts aren't guaranteed at all. Meaning a team can cut a guy anytime and the contract is simply cut off.
Lots of employees are 'At will' and can be fired at any time. I understand playing pro football is its own beast, careers are short, healthy implications are huge, but why should a franchise not be able to release a guy they don't want on their team?
They totally should be able to do it if they want. But it's worth pointing out that the MLB, NHL, and NBA are not like that. Players can't just get cut like they can in the NFL (and be totally out their contract money), therefore NFL franchises hold a lot more power over players than in other pro-leagues. That makes me feel less bad for teams when players are trying to leverage power when they have some, that's all.
There are far more options though, in those other sports. Hoops players are getting crazy money playing in Europe. Anyone in the States worth their salt in hockey is playing in Canada or for their country before going, you guessed it, to Europe. Baseball: South America, Japan. There are strong, competitive minor leagues in all those sports as well. Don't know of one real competitive alternate league for football other than the CFL.
There are also more players on one football team than an entire baseball, hockey and basketball team, so there's that.
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There are far more options though, in those other sports. Hoops players are getting crazy money playing in Europe. Anyone in the States worth their salt in hockey is playing in Canada or for their country before going, you guessed it, to Europe. Baseball: South America, Japan. There are strong, competitive minor leagues in all those sports as well. Don't know of one real competitive alternate league for football other than the CFL.
There are also more players on one football team than an entire baseball, hockey and basketball team, so there's that.
Umm, I don't know if you've heard but the XFL might be making a come back! :tup
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I was discounting the 2001 just because he didn't play. It just plays into the 50% but really the percentage is less. I really was pointing out since he became a starter.
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I was discounting the 2001 just because he didn't play. It just plays into the 50% but really the percentage is less. I really was pointing out since he became a starter.
2001 was Brady's first season as a starter (after taking over after Bledsoe's injury in the second game). 2000 was his rookie season, when he started as a 4th stringer and finished as the #2 QB.
However, even if you don't count the 2000 season, Brady has played 17 seasons (2001-17). The only vaguely legitimate way you can come up with 16 is by ALSO discounting 2008, when he only played part of the season opener and then sat out the rest of the season because of an injury.
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Brady was not the #2 QB until 2001 and came into the Jets game which was game 2 of the season. I was there. They carried 4 QB's that year on the roster which was unheard of.
Drew Bledsoe
John Friesz
Michael Bishop
Tom Brady
Not counting 2000 and 2008 Oops!! :lol Basically his full seasons as a starter he's made it to the Superbowl 7 times and this would make 8 out of 16 full seasons playing.
BTW, I was a season ticket holder for the Pats from 1986(as an 18 year old) to 2012.
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An even funnier stat is: Bill Belichick was the head coach the last time the Cleveland Browns won a playoff game.
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An even funnier stat is: Bill Belichick was the head coach the last time the Cleveland Browns won a playoff game.
Against the Pats! :lol
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An even funnier stat is: Bill Belichick was the head coach the last time the Cleveland Browns won a playoff game.
That's awesome :lol
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Brady was not the #2 QB until 2001 and came into the Jets game which was game 2 of the season. I was there. They carried 4 QB's that year on the roster which was unheard of.
Drew Bledsoe
John Friesz
Michael Bishop
Tom Brady
Not counting 2000 and 2008 Oops!! :lol Basically his full seasons as a starter he's made it to the Superbowl 7 times and this would make 8 out of 16 full seasons playing.
BTW, I was a season ticket holder for the Pats from 1986(as an 18 year old) to 2012.
Speaking of career stats, Michael Bishop just sold his 250th life insurance policy, and this winter, John Friesz will likely plow his 500th driveway!!! Go guys!
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Could be worse. At least they're not doing the Icky Shuffle to sell steaks door to door.
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I remember some serious Michael Bishop hysteria.
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Some closing thoughts on the end of the regular season as we head into the playoffs:
1. For the first time in awhile, I am really optimistic about the 49ers.
2. I feel bad for Alex Smith. I REALLY like the guy and want him to get a ring. But while this team is still dangerous and capable, they aren't what they were the first few weeks of the season. And his window is closing.
3. NE can definitely be had, but they look dangerous. What Brady and BB are doing is historic. And while I'm firmly rooting for KC this post season, and would root for a few other playoff teams over NE when it comes to it, I'm having fun watching NE do what they do, and I won't be disappointed if they win it all again and further cement themselves as perhaps the greatest dynasty the NFL has ever seen.
4. I cannot overstate just how happy and surprised I am that Seattle did not make the playoffs.
Picks for this weekend:
Ten @ KC
Atl @ LAR
Buff @ Jax
Car @ NO
Probably no real surprises. But wildcard weekend typically doesn't surprise. I think the AFC wildcard teams are pretty weak, and I don't think those games will really be contests once they get late into the third quarter. Carolina is legit. But I think the Saints are just the stronger team and will be able to pull away late. But I felt like I had to pick one wildcard team, and Atlanta seems like the most likely. They certainly have their issues. But they can be dangerous, and they are hot after last week's win. The Rams are a powerhouse. But even though they were resting their key starters last week, I think the manner in which they lost that game was a shock. They are cold and are perhaps ripe for an upset. But I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if I were wrong on that pick.
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ESPN's essentially reporting the end of the Patriots dynasty. I have no idea how much is accurate, but I suspect it's a great deal. Raises some interesting questions about the future, in any case. Trading Brady would have made more sense than the JG thing, certainly in retrospect, and failing that it puts Belichick in a rough situation. If Patricia and McDaniels bolt then he's effectively going into a rebuilding project, breaking in two new coordinators while trying to train the future QB that he doesn't even have yet. No idea if he's interested in such a challenge at this point in his career, and if so, does he want to undertake it with Kraft? Brady, on the other hand, might well appreciate trying to cement his GOAT status by playing outside of the Patriots organization. If he could win for another team at 41 it would be a monumental achievement.
A couple of interesting things to ponder. Would Garopollo return to the Patriots if they were willing to pay him TB money? That could actually be a pretty slick move if Brady proved to be the odd man out. Bill is almost certainly not focusing on his personal future right now, which makes for a dicey situation with the coordinators. I always assumed that the next Patriots HC was McDaniels, or less likely Patricia. Yet that's an unlikely scenario if they won't even discuss Bill's future until after the SB.
In any case, we could be seeing a very different team next year.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread180105/beginning-end-new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-tom-brady-bill-belichick-internal-power-struggle
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I think ESPN's reporting of the "end of a dynasty" is both jumping the gun and way overstating the issue. However, that doesn't make the specifics any less real or less interesting.
As far as the JG trade, it's interesting what is being reported as far as BB's stance on not wanting to do it and being overridden. But that aside, it's easy to "Monday morning quarterback" it now that JG is 5-0 with the '9ers and practically looking like the second coming. Given his contract status, etc., they got what they could for him, and this shouldn't be seen as a "bad" trade for the Pats. I mean, fair play for those who want to argue that they should have paid him whatever he wanted and either traded Brady next year or the year after. But that option aside, if they were going to trade him, the fact that he is now exceeding expectations in SF doesn't mean it was a bad trade. Under the circumstances, it wasn't.
It would be really interesting if he leveraged his performance in SF to get the the Pats to offer him enough money to come back, and he actually did so. 49ers fans would be PISSED, and rightly so, IMO. But, man, talk about an intriguing story. That would be one for the ages if it happened and a continuing dynasty (ala Steve Young era 49ers) was built around him.
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I'm taking a lot of this with a grain of salt for two reasons. One, who are the sources on this? Two, why now?
On Garoppolo, I believe I said here (it can be checked) that there was every chance in the world he'd be back. The Pats aren't dumb - well, Belichick and Brady aren't dumb. I'm out on Kraft as anything other than a benevolent wallet. Brady isn't stupid; he knows full well the presence - or not - of Garoppolo doesn't lengthen or shorten his career by even one game. When he's done, he will be out, Garoppolo or no Garoppolo.
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Bosk: Given the circumstances of Bill's hiring by the Patriots and cocktail-napkin resignation as HC of the NYJ, the JG possibility isn't unrealistic. That's also a real possibility with one of the coordinators. Just because somebody signs McDaniels doesn't mean he won't jump ship a day later to return to NE.
As for hindsight and the JG trade, I never expected him to be great, but I'm not Bill Belichick. If Bill expected him to be great then I think we can safely call it a bad deal. He clearly thought he was the future of the franchise, and he's looking like it in SF. Dumping him for a #2 was a bad deal. All the more so because he was worth so much more 4 months earlier.
Stadler: My prediction was that Brady would be gone before he ran out of gas. That's how NE does things. If JG were around I think this would have been the season. It seems to me the sweet-spot for all parties concerned. Without JG they're kind of stuck right now since Hoyer is certainly not the heir apparent. If the stories are correct, I'd surmise that Kraft doesn't buy into The Patriot Way to the same degree as Bill, and loyalty to TB took priority.
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Bosk: Given the circumstances of Bill's hiring by the Patriots and cocktail-napkin resignation as HC of the NYJ, the JG possibility isn't unrealistic. That's also a real possibility with one of the coordinators. Just because somebody signs McDaniels doesn't mean he won't jump ship a day later to return to NE.
No, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying it is premature to make any assumptions. You may be right. I'm not saying it isn't possible. But as of right now, I don't buy the stories of the "end." Yet.
As for hindsight and the JG trade, I never expected him to be great, but I'm not Bill Belichick. If Bill expected him to be great then I think we can safely call it a bad deal. He clearly thought he was the future of the franchise, and he's looking like it in SF. Dumping him for a #2 was a bad deal. All the more so because he was worth so much more 4 months earlier.
But you are conflating a few issues. If there is a long term plan of bringing him back, and it works, then it wasn't a bad deal. And that isn't the scenario I'm talking about anyway. I'm also not talking about whether the deal should be viewed in terms of keep him vs. don't keep him. I'm assuming he was going to be gone. I'm only looking at it from the standpoint of whether or not, IF they were going to trade him, they got their money's worth. With that in mind, I don't think they could have done any better--at least, not in the NFC. And there's no way they trade him to a potential AFC rival, even if they would have gotten the sun, moon, and stars in return as part of the deal. Yeah, he might be "worth" more. But it is unlikely that they could have gotten more. That's just the reality of the situation at the time of the trade. If you think they could have gotten a better deal from another team, I'd like to know who and what you think they would have paid.
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Oh, I never figured it was part of a long term plan. That would have been some Ernst Blofeld level scheming. I just figure that it's not outside the realm of possibilities that they bring him back, since he is a free agent, and it would be fine strategy.
And while they wouldn't have given him to the Jets, they could have sent him to Houston or Cleveland. Denver was probably ruled out. Also, might the 49ers have given more last July? Hell, I'm not sure they wouldn't have thrown in a 2019 pick on top of the 2nd NE got when they actually did trade him.
Personally, I never assumed he'd be gone. I figured there was a solid chance they kept him and jettisoned TB.
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Patriots released a joint statement.
https://www.weei.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/patriots-release-joint-statement-addressing-espn-story
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Fascinating. Like the article itself, it is well-written and fairly persuasive (for what it is). But it also is clearly advocating something that may or may not prove out to be factual and can only really be accurately assessed once it is far in the rearview mirror of history. Or, to put it more plainly, "We'll just see about that." :corn:
As far as the article itself, it is fascinating. And if supported by credible sources, it is VERY well-written from a journalistic standpoint, even if it were to later turn out that some of the facts are wrong. It does appear to be well-researched and thorough, and appears to reach reasonable conclusions based on the facts that are presented. It's a fascinating look behind the curtain, even if it ends up being wrong.
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Fascinating. Like the article itself, it is well-written and fairly persuasive (for what it is). But it also is clearly advocating something that may or may not prove out to be factual and can only really be accurately assessed once it is far in the rearview mirror of history. Or, to put it more plainly, "We'll just see about that." :corn:
As far as the article itself, it is fascinating. And if supported by credible sources, it is VERY well-written from a journalistic standpoint, even if it were to later turn out that some of the facts are wrong. It does appear to be well-researched and thorough, and appears to reach reasonable conclusions based on the facts that are presented. It's a fascinating look behind the curtain, even if it ends up being wrong.
The ESPN story reminds me of the WaPo and NYT articles we were seeing in the first months of the Trump administration. They're reporting things that make perfect sense, citing unnamed but seemingly well informed sources, and in both cases we'll probably never really know just how accurate they are. My take on both is that there's very likely a high amount of truthiness to them, though the specifics are generally questionable, at best. It would seem improbable to me if there weren't some degree of infighting going on in both camps, much as described. Just not necessarily to the degree or of the sort being reported.
Of course the difference is that NE releases a short, succinct denial of the whole thing. The White House would spend 3 days disparaging ESPN and suing staffers for violating NDAs while maintaining that the cry-baby coach gets along just fine with his self-entitled quarterback and shit-for-brains owner.
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On another level, not sure the remaining NFL teams want to face a pissed off Patriots team with something to prove. I'm Belichick, tonight, after 126 hours of game film, I'm kicking back, pouring a cabernet, and giving thanks to the Gods that sometimes shit just falls into your lap.
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I'm not sure what I missed from the Rappaport story. It doesn't really say anything.
According to the story Rapoport says that Garopollo is the future franchise QB two days before they jettison him. I suspect somebody within the Patriots fed him that story hoping to increase his value.
Oh, ok, I wasn't sure what I was missing. I mean Rapp mentions it on a podcast. I think it's been clear all along that they viewed him as the future franchise QB.
I don't think anyone handed Rapp any new quotes on the subject.
They already have Schefter to carry their water.
I've always suspected it was bullshit. I guess now we'll find out.
I guess we found out! ;D
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I'm not sure what I missed from the Rappaport story. It doesn't really say anything.
According to the story Rapoport says that Garopollo is the future franchise QB two days before they jettison him. I suspect somebody within the Patriots fed him that story hoping to increase his value.
Oh, ok, I wasn't sure what I was missing. I mean Rapp mentions it on a podcast. I think it's been clear all along that they viewed him as the future franchise QB.
I don't think anyone handed Rapp any new quotes on the subject.
They already have Schefter to carry their water.
I've always suspected it was bullshit. I guess now we'll find out.
I guess we found out! ;D
Is your point that JG looks like he might be a franchise QB based on his play, or that he might have been TB's heir apparent based on the article? Regardless, it's looking like both might be true in a big way, but nothing's certain yet. In any case I could very well have been wrong, as it appears now.
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Not going at you, but I remember having the conversation at the deadline. :)
I haven't had a chance to read the ESPN article yet, nor do I have a subscription to Boston Sports Journal, where Greg Bedard has even more details, apparently. But on the day of the trade, two things were very clear:
1. Belichick believed Jimmy G was the future franchise QB
2. The trade had Kraft's involvement written all over it.
So Belichick sent him to a place that he should have a good situation. Belichick has a great relationships with the Shanahans, and very much likes John Lynch.
But as far as the return goes, I didn't think that was important to Belichick. With only getting a 2nd, he basically said to Kraft, "There, he's gone. Happy now?"
The other thing that has happened since is that they signed Kenny Britt, who Kraft wanted no part of a couple of years ago. That was a total "spite" move by Belichick. He then signs the biggest D-bag in the league in Harrison. The ever so image conscious Kraft cannot be thrilled. Hell, Belichick would probably re-sign Aaron Hernandez if he could just to piss off Kraft.
It would not surprise me if Belichick walks after this year. Patricia will absolutely go if offered a job.
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I think the scenario is more like they knew they couldn't franchise Jimmy G and pay Brady. Brady has played so well that they really couldn't let him go like they did with Bledsoe, so he was going to trade him away and not put him in the AFC
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Not going at you, but I remember having the conversation at the deadline. :)
I haven't had a chance to read the ESPN article yet, nor do I have a subscription to Boston Sports Journal, where Greg Bedard has even more details, apparently. But on the day of the trade, two things were very clear:
1. Belichick believed Jimmy G was the future franchise QB
2. The trade had Kraft's involvement written all over it.
So Belichick sent him to a place that he should have a good situation. Belichick has a great relationships with the Shanahans, and very much likes John Lynch.
But as far as the return goes, I didn't think that was important to Belichick. With only getting a 2nd, he basically said to Kraft, "There, he's gone. Happy now?"
The other thing that has happened since is that they signed Kenny Britt, who Kraft wanted no part of a couple of years ago. That was a total "spite" move by Belichick. He then signs the biggest D-bag in the league in Harrison. The ever so image conscious Kraft cannot be thrilled. Hell, Belichick would probably re-sign Aaron Hernandez if he could just to piss off Kraft.
It would not surprise me if Belichick walks after this year. Patricia will absolutely go if offered a job.
Not arguing with your interesting analysis, but I don't think Bill has ever been as concerned about image as Kraft. Drunk dude from Arizona demonstrated that pretty nicely.
And is Patricia discontent? I thought he had turned down a job in the past.
Something that intrigues me is what has changed. For 20 years Kraft has been content to largely let coaches do their thing. Now he orders a trade? That's kind of a fundamental shift, and if that kind of shift is taking place I wouldn't be surprised to see Bill retire, either.
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I think the scenario is more like they knew they couldn't franchise Jimmy G and pay Brady. Brady has played so well that they really couldn't let him go like they did with Bledsoe, so he was going to trade him away and not put him in the AFC
If Bill really thought JG was the future of the franchise there shouldn't have been much question about it. Trade Brady. What TB has done is remarkable, but we all know the floor will eventually fall out. He might have 3 more years left in him, but is that worth jeopardizing the long term future?
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You know, any other QB I think we'd all say move on. Brady is still playing at such a high level that is sort of monkey wrench into what Belichick wants. There's a chance this year that Brady may win three Super Bowls in 4 years. And look how well he's playing his last 4 year. Who's match that?
This is a once in a lifetime player. No drop off.
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I think the scenario is more like they knew they couldn't franchise Jimmy G and pay Brady.
Of course they could have. But with Brady bitching to Kraft all season, there was no way Kraft would allow it.
And is Patricia discontent? I thought he had turned down a job in the past.
No, he is not a discontent, and I don't believe he has been offered a head coaching job. He is not in a position to pick and choose like Josh seemingly is. I am just saying if given the opportunity, Patricia will take it.
Something that intrigues me is what has changed. For 20 years Kraft has been content to largely let coaches do their thing. Now he orders a trade? That's kind of a fundamental shift, and if that kind of shift is taking place I wouldn't be surprised to see Bill retire, either.
What has changed? This is all about Tom Brady. There is no shift. This is a one time desicion. Brady can make a plea based on loyalty. He has taken team friendly deals, took the bullet for Deflategate. Remember, with Belichick's previous penalty for Spygate, his implication in Deflategate would've meant some serious consequences. There's no way he didn't know about Brady's "ball procedure".
Also, Kraft is an investor in TB12.
Brady's people truly felt Brady could be traded this off season. They were offering serious money to Jimmy G. Remember, JG and TB have the same agent. While offering a contract to JG, they still yet hadn't offered TB an extension at the same interval as they had previously. All Brady could do at this point was to go to Kraft.
I think the the return for Jimmy G, and the subsequent signings of 2 D bags are middle fingers to Kraft.
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Tim you are wrong. The Pats have too many free agents and you can't sink that much money in a position that isn't a starter.
They had to make a choice and they chose Brady.
This is Don Yee. The agent for both Brady & Garoppolo says differently.
https://www.weei.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/tom-brady-jimmy-garoppolos-agent-don-yee-responds-espn-story-about-power
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With all due respect, it is myopic to say there has been no drop off in Brady's play. His play over the last 1/3 of this season is on the decline. He's still good enough to win a Super Bowl on a really good team with the best coach ever, but saying there is no drop off implies that he is as good as ever, which is simply not the case.
That aside, I think there is a lot of truth in this story. While parts of it reek of a writer who has an axe to grind, too much of it makes sense to ignore.
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Kev, he's injured. You know how the Patriots never come out and say much. He's been on the injured list and he's taking almost every Wednesday off in the last 5 weeks
he's playing through injury and they've had a lot of other injuries in the receiving Corps and the running backs so of course is going to be a decline in play.
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Right. When you get old, injuries happen more frequently, and they take longer to heal. Same thing happened to Peyton Manning in 2014 when he had that quad (or was in hamstring) injury that just wouldn't heal and he was never the same.
Will anybody be surprised if Belichick leaves after the season, his best two assistant coaches get head coaching jobs elsewhere, and Kraft is left with an old QB who suddenly isn't all-world anymore and no good QB in the wings?
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Tim you are wrong. The Pats have too many free agents and you can't sink that much money in a position that isn't a starter.
They had to make a choice and they chose Brady.
This is Don Yee. The agent for both Brady & Garoppolo says differently.
https://www.weei.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/tom-brady-jimmy-garoppolos-agent-don-yee-responds-espn-story-about-power
Don Yee's statement doesn't say shit. It's damage control What's he supposed to do? He's going to protect Brady. Neither Brady, Kraft, or Belichick will ever go on record. But they ALL talk to someone.
And c'mon Joe, this had nothing to do about paying 2 QB's. Never did, never will. This was about Belichick moving on from Brady, and Kraft not letting him. Besides, Garapollo wasn't ever going to sign on to be a backup any longer.
That aside, I think there is a lot of truth in this story. While parts of it reek of a writer who has an axe to grind, too much of it makes sense to ignore.
The writer doesn't have an axe to grind. Belichick does.
With all due respect, it is myopic to say there has been no drop off in Brady's play. His play over the last 1/3 of this season is on the decline.
Well,
1. He is hurt.
2. He has jack shit for receivers. Edelman is out, obviously. Hogan has been out for a while now, as has Malcolm Mitchell, a second year guy who actually "got" the offence and earned Brady's trust. He's also played two of the last 5 games without Gronk, one due to suspension, and last week, they weren't throwing to him on purpose.
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Will anybody be surprised if Belichick leaves after the season, his best two assistant coaches get head coaching jobs elsewhere, and Kraft is left with an old QB who suddenly isn't all-world anymore and no good QB in the wings?
I think this is all possible.
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Can you imagine the first time your boss or owner of the company who's giving you carte blanche says no it has to be this way and then you say screw this I'm leaving.
Man up Belichick. You have a boss.
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That aside, I think there is a lot of truth in this story. While parts of it reek of a writer who has an axe to grind, too much of it makes sense to ignore.
The writer doesn't have an axe to grind. Belichick does.
I think Belichick is definitely pissed. He traded Brissett to the Colts (their sworn enemy after Deflategate); he traded Jimmy G for nothing to a Shanahan (he is buddies with that family); he laid the smackdown on Brady's snaky training guru.
2. He has jack shit for receivers. Edelman is out, obviously. Hogan has been out for a while now, as has Malcolm Mitchell, a second year guy who actually "got" the offence and earned Brady's trust. He's also played two of the last 5 games without Gronk, one due to suspension, and last week, they weren't throwing to him on purpose.
Yeah, that Gronk fella is no good at all, is he? :P
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if fully staffed the receiving Corp is great. but there's been too many injuries this year. On the flip side, maybe Guerrero's techniques have helped Gronk stay on the field this year!
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2. He has jack shit for receivers. Edelman is out, obviously. Hogan has been out for a while now, as has Malcolm Mitchell, a second year guy who actually "got" the offence and earned Brady's trust. He's also played two of the last 5 games without Gronk, one due to suspension, and last week, they weren't throwing to him on purpose.
Yeah, that Gronk fella is no good at all, is he? :P
OK. My turn to bold!
Brady /Gronk torched both the Bills and the Steelers in the last 5 games. But Cooks/Dorsett are not catching balls that Edelman or Hogan catch.
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if fully staffed the receiving Corp is great. but there's been too many injuries this year. On the flip side, maybe Guerrero's techniques have helped Gronk stay on the field this year!
I think it's less technique than it is in Gronk's head. Gronk still believes in the Lucky Charms' leprechaun. His techniques didn't do Edelman any good.
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Who the hell knows. Lol. Also, Brady's sister chimes in.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x700q90/924/aX3tMj.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/poaX3tMjj)
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Mrs Youk. :lol
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Yup. :lol
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So, did Belichick have Wickersham grease the skids of public opinion?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-belichick-sees-an-opening-to-coach-giants/ar-BBHV0Li?li=BBnb7Kz
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Would Bill Belichick ever go two organization when he's not the GM? I think not.
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Seriously how stupid are writers that believe Belichick is going to go to the Giants when they just signed on December 28th a new GM from the Carolina Panthers?
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Well, they're from New York! ;D
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:lol
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Man do we love the invented "fall from grace" story as humans, especially sports fans in a time of very bland sports news. Even in New York when I hear anything related to the Patriots and all this stuff my first immediate reaction is "why is anyone even caring about this starving media driven non-story bullshit?" but alas here it is.
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Can you imagine the first time your boss or owner of the company who's giving you carte blanche says no it has to be this way and then you say screw this I'm leaving.
Man up Belichick. You have a boss.
Right, and his boss is a businessman, not a football guy, which is why he hires others to take care of the football stuff. Without Belichick, Kraft has no Super Bowl rings. He should leave Belichick alone to do the job he hired him to do.
Brady /Gronk torched both the Bills and the Steelers in the last 5 games. But Cooks/Dorsett are not catching balls that Edelman or Hogan catch.
Is there where we pretend that Chris Hogan is better than Brandin Cooks?
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This doesn't happen much here, but I'm with Kev all the way in this. Like I said, this off season is the right time to move away from TB. I think he's still an excellent QB, though certainly no longer in his prime, but his days are necessarily numbered and they were in a position to move on. If all of this is true, and it certainly seems plausible, I don't see Bill sticking around and Kraft has really done a number on the team.
Something else I don't see is him moving to a new team. His legacy is cemented and if he wanted to add anything further it would be an epilogue where he set the Patriots up to carry on without him. That no longer seems to be in the cards.
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Man do we love the invented "fall from grace" story as humans, especially sports fans in a time of very bland sports news. Even in New York when I hear anything related to the Patriots and all this stuff my first immediate reaction is "why is anyone even caring about this starving media driven non-story bullshit?" but alas here it is.
I completely agree with you. I would love to sit here and say that the Pats are going to "fall from grace" as you described it, but the fact is that until that downward spiral actually happens, the Patriots will remain the best team in the league. And as far as the story goes, RK, BB, and TB all came out and said it isn't true. It's their word against the writer's word, and nobody knows who is correct except for the involved parties. It's a non-story.
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Can you imagine the first time your boss or owner of the company who's giving you carte blanche says no it has to be this way and then you say screw this I'm leaving.
Man up Belichick. You have a boss.
Right, and his boss is a businessman, not a football guy, which is why he hires others to take care of the football stuff. Without Belichick, Kraft has no Super Bowl rings. He should leave Belichick alone to do the job he hired him to do.
I beg to differ. Everybody has a boss. This is unique. No quarterback has been this great at this age. Everybody looks for a cliff or wants to see a cliff. This is not Farve who just gave up his last year or Manning who lost arm strength after all those surgeries.
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This doesn't happen much here, but I'm with Kev all the way in this. Like I said, this off season is the right time to move away from TB. I think he's still an excellent QB, though certainly no longer in his prime, but his days are necessarily numbered and they were in a position to move on. If all of this is true, and it certainly seems plausible, I don't see Bill sticking around and Kraft has really done a number on the team.
Something else I don't see is him moving to a new team. His legacy is cemented and if he wanted to add anything further it would be an epilogue where he set the Patriots up to carry on without him. That no longer seems to be in the cards.
Correct. I don't think it's going out on a limb to now think that Belichick doesn't give a damn what kind of shape he leaves the team in once he is gone. When you consider that they are not usually the most talented team, but one always coached up by the GOAT coach and his staff, it will be a sharp fall once Belichick departs and Brady really does hit the cliff.
I completely agree with you. I would love to sit here and say that the Pats are going to "fall from grace" as you described it, but the fact is that until that downward spiral actually happens, the Patriots will remain the best team in the league. And as far as the story goes, RK, BB, and TB all came out and said it isn't true. It's their word against the writer's word, and nobody knows who is correct except for the involved parties. It's a non-story.
They did? Where?
Please don't say that joint statement that someone in the Pats front office likely wrote and put out.
Besides, saying it's the "writer's word" implies that it is just his word, when, no, his story had quotes from, what, a dozen sources, all of whom are close to at least one of the three. Some like to quibble that the sources are anonymous, but a) many big stories are broken as the result of anonymous sources, and b) most anonymous sources say more because they are anonymous, and if the writer broke their word and cited them by name as a source, that writer would never get anyone to tell them anything again. That is how it works.
I beg to differ. Everybody has a boss. This is unique. No quarterback has been this great at this age. Everybody looks for a cliff or wants to see a cliff. This is not Farve who just gave up his last year or Manning who lost arm strength after all those surgeries.
I will say this: you Patriots fans better pray that Alex Guerrero, who has a bad rep with a lot of people, doesn't eventually get exposed for using questionable and illegal (by NFL rules) methods of training, eating, nutrition, etc., or else Brady's playing well at 40 story will turn into "he had to do a Barry Bonds and employ a shady wannabe doctor to stay healthy to keep playing at a high level for a long time."
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oh I think he's a shyster. I think he's the reason why Belichick kicked them out Patriots have a program in place and he's telling players different things that's why they kicked him out. He's only allowed to come to the stadium to work on Brady.
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Another article refuting the ESPN article.
https://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/2018/01/howe_don_t_close_down_the_patriots_dynasty_just_yet
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That doesn't refute anything; that's just a Boston sportswriter pulling a Frank Drebin and trying to convince us that there is nothing to see here. He has ZERO new quotes from any sources that refute anything.
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Another article refuting the ESPN article.
https://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/2018/01/howe_don_t_close_down_the_patriots_dynasty_just_yet
Get ready for them this week. Jeff Howe is a patsy.
And as far as the story goes, RK, BB, and TB all came out and said it isn't true. It's their word against the writer's word, and nobody knows who is correct except for the involved parties. It's a non-story.
Their statement means nothing. This is a huge story, as the Pats dynasty's clock is clearly ticking. Everyone is wondering how this will eventually play out. This is why Kimmy G talk over the last two years has been so loud.
This doesn't happen much here, but I'm with Kev all the way in this. Like I said, this off season is the right time to move away from TB. I think he's still an excellent QB, though certainly no longer in his prime, but his days are necessarily numbered and they were in a position to move on. If all of this is true, and it certainly seems plausible, I don't see Bill sticking around and Kraft has really done a number on the team.
Something else I don't see is him moving to a new team. His legacy is cemented and if he wanted to add anything further it would be an epilogue where he set the Patriots up to carry on without him. That no longer seems to be in the cards.
All true. I also think Belichick was moving on after this year. But you know who else thought the same thing? Brady. That's why he got Kraft involved in the first place.
Is there where we pretend that Chris Hogan is better than Brandin Cooks?
In this offense, yes. Hogan had a much higher impact than Cooks, despite his yardage. He's a soft player. He's fast. But he's soft.
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Sure it does Kev. I'm the first to say of course Brady would be upset about his business partner not getting to work with other players at the stadium. They can still go to see him at the other facility after practice. This is not the end of the world. People talk about how diligent BB is in his preparation yet they think he did not talk it over with Brady first? You think these scenarios about the 2 QB's were not talked about by the coaching staff and to the owner? People look for anything to latch on hoping for the demise of a team they hate.
I'm more worried about the possibility of them losing both coordinators.
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Who is Kimmy G? :lol :lol
Hogan has has more of an impact in the NE offense than Cooks?
Hogan has 72 catches, 1,119 yards and 9 TDs in 24 regular season games as a Patriot.
Cooks has 65 catches, 1,082 yards and 7 TDs in 16 regular seasons games as a Patriot, which extrapolates out to 98-1,623-11 over 24 games, which, last time I checked, is better than 72-1,119-9. :P
As for being soft, well, Cook is a speed guy, not an Edelman-like WR who is going to catch passes in traffic and take 44 hard hits a game. If being fast and not taking hits, vs being tough and getting hurt a lot cause you are getting hit all the time, makes you soft, then okay.
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:lol
Can't argue about Cooks. He checks out on some plays.
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I can see why some might think Hogan has made more of an impact. It is all about perception in regards to how both players were acquired.
Hogan was signed and cost the Patriots nothing to acquire. He came in with a cheap contract and not high expectations, which he exceeded (the AFCCG last year helped the perception a lot).
Meanwhile, they had to give up a lot to trade for Cooks, who some would say underperformed this season based on expectations (some were foolishly expecting to be like Moss in '07). He still had a very good season, though, and I remember at least 2 more TDs he could have had if Brady hadn't completely missed him when he was wide open.
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I can see why some might think Hogan has made more of an impact. It is all about perception in regards to how both players were acquired.
I don't care about how they were acquired. I just watch the games. Brady would tell you the same thing, just so you know.
Don't try and throw stats at me...again! :lol
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When Tom Brady himself tells me that, I will believe it. :biggrin:
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You know, any other QB I think we'd all say move on. Brady is still playing at such a high level that is sort of monkey wrench into what Belichick wants. There's a chance this year that Brady may win three Super Bowls in 4 years. And look how well he's playing his last 4 year. Who's match that?
This is a once in a lifetime player. No drop off.
at 37, 39, and 40, in a league that is as violent as ever. Absolutely amazing.
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This doesn't happen much here, but I'm with Kev all the way in this. Like I said, this off season is the right time to move away from TB. I think he's still an excellent QB, though certainly no longer in his prime, but his days are necessarily numbered and they were in a position to move on. If all of this is true, and it certainly seems plausible, I don't see Bill sticking around and Kraft has really done a number on the team.
Something else I don't see is him moving to a new team. His legacy is cemented and if he wanted to add anything further it would be an epilogue where he set the Patriots up to carry on without him. That no longer seems to be in the cards.
Correct. I don't think it's going out on a limb to now think that Belichick doesn't give a damn what kind of shape he leaves the team in once he is gone. When you consider that they are not usually the most talented team, but one always coached up by the GOAT coach and his staff, it will be a sharp fall once Belichick departs and Brady really does hit the cliff.
To me it's pretty sad that we might not get to see if "The Patriot Way" can exist without him. It's a lock that the next Bill Belichick isn't on their team (or any other), but it's a real possibility that the next head coach is and would be a damn good one after his tutelage. If the two scenarios are that Bill handed off the team to JMD with a young franchise QB and a pretty good roster, or he helped the two assistants leave and JG leave, the second one would be a damn shame.
In any case, I think we'll see some questions answered on February 5.
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When Tom Brady himself tells me that, I will believe it. :biggrin:
(https://i.imgur.com/L1KuihC.jpg)
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:lol
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When Tom Brady himself tells me that, I will believe it. :biggrin:
(https://i.imgur.com/L1KuihC.jpg)
Picture + words on the interwebz. It must be true.
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:lol :lol
In the meantime. this Chiefs/Titans game is dog shit, punctuated by that awful call on the Mariotta sack/fumble. How that wasn't a fumble doesn't even make sense. Awful NFL officiating strikes again. :tdwn :tdwn
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/01/06/congrats-cleveland-browns-fans-celebrate-0-16-season-with-parade/?utm_term=.549274c870b1
Awesome! :lol
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:lol :lol
In the meantime. this Chiefs/Titans game is dog shit, punctuated by that awful call on the Mariotta sack/fumble. How that wasn't a fumble doesn't even make sense. Awful NFL officiating strikes again. :tdwn :tdwn
"Dog shit" is being kind. Does anyone still think that Andy Reid is a good coach? They looked good in the first half, but talk about not preparing your team for the second half. My god. And no, it's not because they lost Kelce. Please. This is the big leagues, you need to be able to respond. Dick LeBeau? RESPONDED. Mularky? RESPONDED. Reid? FOLDED.
Baring something idiotic by the Titans - lets not rule that out! - the Chiefs now have the longest HOME playoff losing streak (6) in the history of the NFL.
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lol Chiefs. I dozed off at 21-3 and woke up 10 minutes ago to 22-21 and had to rub my eyes to make sure I was seeing that right. How in the world did KC blow that?
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You think KC should go after Belichick? :lol
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lol Chiefs. I dozed off at 21-3 and woke up 10 minutes ago to 22-21 and had to rub my eyes to make sure I was seeing that right. How in the world did KC blow that?
Call it intuition but I was exactly expecting that to happen given Andy Reid's history and sure enough, I wasn't even remotely surprised at the result. The 2nd half was quite entertaining, to be honest.
And that TD pass and catch by Mariota was hilarious to watch live.
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You think KC should go after Belichick? :lol
McDaniels?
Seriously though, are there better options than Reid at this point. The way they started, this season has been a disaster.
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Well, Reid's record over the long haul still speaks for itself, but his team really shit the bed this year. They went from a 5-0 start to stumbling to a 10-6 finish and then lost at home to a Titans team that was lucky to even make the playoffs. That is on him.
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He likely survives, but is that the right call?
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No clue on that one. How does Kareem Hunt only get 3 carries in the 2nd half? You have dog shit at WR except for Tyreek Hill (who is a speed guy and not a true number 1) and Kelce was out, so you come out throwing? Goofy.
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Not goofy.
Expected.
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Overrated.
*waits for Kev to post coaching record stats* ;D
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https://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Remember-When-Brad-Johnsons-TD-Pass-To-Himself/c50c1baa-2129-43ee-938a-eef3ad4d58cf
Not a 'Music City Miracle', but Mariota's TD pass/catch needs an 'Immaculate Deflection' type of moniker. I'll give Gruden kudos for saying how that would have been big time fantasy football points on that play.
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Overrated.
*waits for Kev to post coaching record stats* ;D
Hey now, if wins and losses don't matter, then I will remember that the next time y'all bring up the Patriots five Super Bowl wins. :P
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Overrated.
*waits for Kev to post coaching record stats* ;D
Hey now, if wins and losses don't matter, then I will remember that the next time y'all bring up the Patriots five Super Bowl wins. :P
And I'll remember that the next time you bring up Reid's Super Bowl wins. :P :P
Stop confusing me with Kingshmegland.
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Hey now. In the end what team is better. KC or the Pats?
/thread.
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Right on cue. :lol
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:lol
While I agree that some players like Marino are great but just with no rings, to have those stats with rings says so much more about a player. Kev has express this when ranking Brady all time.
Now about Reid. His track record says it all. Very good in the regular season. A hot mess in the playoffs.
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Dan Quinn's team might win tonight, but he just won the Dumbass of the Day Award. I hope the Rams come back and win 27-26 to highlight what a moron he was for kicking the XP to go up 13 with less than 6 minutes left.
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https://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Remember-When-Brad-Johnsons-TD-Pass-To-Himself/c50c1baa-2129-43ee-938a-eef3ad4d58cf
Not a 'Music City Miracle', but Mariota's TD pass/catch needs an 'Immaculate Deflection' type of moniker. I'll give Gruden kudos for saying how that would have been big time fantasy football points on that play.
Haha, I got a chuckle out of that too. "That's 12 points right there in your fantasy football league!" or something close to that.
I like Gruden. I'll miss him in the booth if he goes to the sideline. Watch out for the Raiders if he does. He's the real deal.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS5jW8MVwAEecTh.jpg:large)
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:lol
While I agree that some players like Marino are great but just with no rings, to have those stats with rings says so much more about a player. Kev has express this when ranking Brady all time.
Now about Reid. His track record says it all. Very good in the regular season. A hot mess in the playoffs.
I forgot... what's the trophy for the winner of the regular season? :)
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OK, so I said earlier in the season that the Chiefs and the Falcons were set to win Super Bowls within the next few years. Speaking for the Chiefs, I'm changing that now to "they should, but they probably won't". Consistent playoff appearances/close to playoff appearances, but they really need to make the step up to the next level, instead of tanking like they did last night. They're like Tottenham Hotspur in recent years, showing great promise but ultimately failing to deliver.
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Even though the Rams are fun to watch, I did enjoy seeing them get punked in their first home playoff game back in L.A.
Stan Kroenke can still eat a bag of shit.
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Why does he bother you Kev?
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OK, so I said earlier in the season that the Chiefs and the Falcons were set to win Super Bowls within the next few years. Speaking for the Chiefs, I'm changing that now to "they should, but they probably won't". Consistent playoff appearances/close to playoff appearances, but they really need to make the step up to the next level, instead of tanking like they did last night. They're like Tottenham Hotspur in recent years, showing great promise but ultimately failing to deliver.
I don't think everyone here shares my belief in this, but for me, this is where the coach is the difference maker.
I will give credit where credit is due, though: Reid is in my opinion one of the three (if not THE) worst coaches in the league when it comes to game/clock management, but to his credit, he had three time outs going into the last two minutes of the game and used at least one of them smartly (to avoid a run-off). Didn't matter in the end, but still. At least he learned his lesson in 17 years. He ought to make the next plateau by 2034. He'll only be 76 years old.
HEY! Go to his Wiki page now, before it changes. It actually says this: "Andrew Walter Reid (born March 19, 1958) is an American football coach and playoff choke artist who is the current head coach for the Kansas City Chiefs of the National Football League (NFL).[1]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Reid
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Even though the Rams are fun to watch, I did enjoy seeing them get punked in their first home playoff game back in L.A.
Stan Kroenke can still eat a bag of shit.
He's no different from that murdering whore Georgia, or any other owner for that matter... it's all about the benjamins. GO RAMS!!
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After reading a bunch of cocky gambling advice prior to the games and then seeing the actual results, I’m amazed so many people risk money on such an unpredictable event.
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Can the road teams win today and make it 4 - 0 in the wildcard games? Do the AFC wildcard winners have a legitimate shot against the Steelers and Patriots?
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Andy Reid is a lot like Marty Schottenheimer and Dennis Green were, great regular season records, but his teams usually flop in the Playoffs.
although to Reid's credit he did get to 1 Super Bowl (but many other less than stellar coaches have too, even won a SB such as Barry Switzer and George Seifert when the talent is just so good on your team)
Granted, as a Vikings fan, I am still expecting them to disappoint, but I would love to see Mike Zimmer be different.
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I'm don't much care for Romo, but he really is good at his job. He might be the most observant announcer there is right now and his understanding of the game is better than I was expecting.
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I'm don't much care for Romo, but he really is good at his job. He might be the most observant announcer there is right now and his understanding of the game is better than I was expecting.
He's fantastic and drives home just how lame every other color guy is.
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Damn, reverse DDT for Tyrod Taylor.
I'm don't much care for Romo, but he really is good at his job. He might be the most observant announcer there is right now and his understanding of the game is better than I was expecting.
He's fantastic and drives home just how lame every other color guy is.
A little too opinionated for my taste.
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He's a little yappy, but I'd much rather that than everyone else that is out there.
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I think for a first year color commentator was great.
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So today a receiver went to the ground with a catch, the ball moved, but it was ruled a catch anyway. Yup that’s consistent alright.
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So today a receiver went to the ground with a catch, the ball moved, but it was ruled a catch anyway. Yup that’s consistent alright.
Contrary to Romo's assertion, I couldn't tell that the ball ever touched the ground. I thought his arm was under it the whole time. There was certainly nothing conclusive.
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Can the road teams win today and make it 4 - 0 in the wildcard games? Do the AFC wildcard winners have a legitimate shot against the Steelers and Patriots?
I didn't see a team this weekend in either league, except for possibly the Saints, that has a legit - as opposed to "any given Sunday" - shot against either New England or Pittsburgh.
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I'm don't much care for Romo, but he really is good at his job. He might be the most observant announcer there is right now and his understanding of the game is better than I was expecting.
This is kind of my take, as well. I'm warming to him a little but I still don't like him. Unquestionably, though, he knows his shit way better than I thought he did while underperforming in Dallas for so many years. :) :)
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Underperforming? He was a good second tier QB. Maybe that's all he was.
What a lame effort by Funchess on that 3rd down play. And Fuck You Cam Newton.
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It's actually embarrassing how bad NFL officiating is now. The on-field officials had to be told by the alternates that intentional grounding with less than 2 minutes left requires a 10-second runoff and the clock starting when they wind it. Unreal. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Kev what do you think that there's so many damn rules now that it's getting harder to officiate on the field?
I agree the officiating has been terrible but it makes me wonder if it has so many new rules to follow that it's getting harder for referees to do their job.
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Boo freaking hoo. :lol :lol
Besides, that rule is not new.
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LOL I'm not talking about that rule. I'm just talking overall in general. It seems every year refereeing is getting worse and worse.
Or maybe I'm just an old cranky bastard. Back in my day... LOL
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Why can't both be true? ;D
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:lol
I'm not the one to say.
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Every time I watch a game I'm amazed referees can do what they do. Making a call is easy. Applying the rules must be a bitch. Not making an excuse, it's their job and they presumably have the proper disposition for their work, but I'm surprised they don't blow stuff more often.
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That's why I feel every time they add rules it's hard from them to make a call.
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Go Saints. Only game I got to see this weekend unfortunately but I'll gladly miss all other games as long as the Saints keep winning.
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I don't think it's the number of rules now, it's the "safety net" mentality; they don't really have to get it right, because every fart, whistle and burp is reviewed in "New York" and corrected if it's wrong.
I for one am a fan of the on-field game. If the refs blow a call, so be it, that's part of the game, but let the players play and the refs ref. This reviewing everything is getting ridiculous. And if you saw the game that Gruden called, it was the ONE reference he made to possibly being a coach next year. Every time Terico tried to bait him to reveal something he didn't bite... EXCEPT when talking about instant review and how "next year he'll have a voice" and he wants to do something about minimizing the level of review on every single play.
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Another brutal Chiefs loss. Time for a coaching change. How to you go into the second half up 21-3 and only have the NFL RUSHING LEADER RUN THE BALL 11 TIMES IN THE ENTIRE GAME?!?! Maddening. Losing Berry in the first game of the season was not worth that early W against the patriots. My brother lives in KC and it sounds like Reid is going to survive but one or both of the coordinators may be looking for jobs. Smith will be traded more than likely.
At least now I can pull 100% for my second favorite team. GO VIKINGS!
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Picks for this weekend:
Ten @ KC
Atl @ LAR
Buff @ Jax
Car @ NO
Probably no real surprises. But wildcard weekend typically doesn't surprise. I think the AFC wildcard teams are pretty weak, and I don't think those games will really be contests once they get late into the third quarter. Carolina is legit. But I think the Saints are just the stronger team and will be able to pull away late. But I felt like I had to pick one wildcard team, and Atlanta seems like the most likely. They certainly have their issues. But they can be dangerous, and they are hot after last week's win. The Rams are a powerhouse. But even though they were resting their key starters last week, I think the manner in which they lost that game was a shock. They are cold and are perhaps ripe for an upset. But I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if I were wrong on that pick.
3-1 isn't bad. But the one I lost is surprising to me. I thought that was the easiest lock of the 4 games. :dunno:
This week:
Atl @ Phi
Ten @ NE
Jax @ Pitt
NO @ Minn
Just going with the favorites here. Those picks just make the most sense. Of those, I think NO is the potential sleeper that could most easily go the other way.
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I'm going:
Atl @ Phi
Ten @ NE
Jax @ Pitt
NO @ Minn
I think the only lock is the Patriots. This could be Minnesota's hardest game in the playoffs. It will be a defensive struggle but I think the Vikings D has the edge and win 17-14. Atlanta has laid a TON of eggs this season and the Eagles are still a really good team. I think the Eagles hang on. The Jags defense will pressure Big Ben into one of his multi-INT games and pull out the win.
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In the Philly/Atlanta game, Philly without Wentz is nowhere near Philly with Wentz. They just aren't the same team that earned the #1 seed. Atlanta has a lot of momentum and veteran experience. The only knock against them is that they have been pretty inconsistent over the season, and we could get the "bad Falcons" this week.
As far as Jacksonville, I like this description of this past game from ESPN: The Jags won their first playoff game since 2007 by overcoming the Bills in what might be charitably defined as a defensive struggle.
They can't play anywhere near that level and hope to beat the Steelers. And I think they will play near that level again. I don't see them getting very far.
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Do the AFC wildcard winners have a legitimate shot against the Steelers and Patriots?
I agree with Stadler with his "any given Sunday" reference, but the fact for any team to make the SB other than Pitt/NE to make the Super Bowl you need two of those games. Either both Pitt and NE lose this week, which should sound highly unlikely at best, or the same team needs to beat NE/Pitt in back to back weeks, which again should sound like one hell of a long shot. So basically I'm going into the SB with the dull expectation that it'll be either NE or Pitt there from the AFC.
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Another brutal Chiefs loss. Time for a coaching change. How to you go into the second half up 21-3 and only have the NFL RUSHING LEADER RUN THE BALL 11 TIMES IN THE ENTIRE GAME?!?! Maddening. Losing Berry in the first game of the season was not worth that early W against the patriots. My brother lives in KC and it sounds like Reid is going to survive but one or both of the coordinators may be looking for jobs. Smith will be traded more than likely.
At least now I can pull 100% for my second favorite team. GO VIKINGS!
Did you check out Andy Reid's wiki page?
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I half paid attention to the games this weekend:
TEN @ KC: That was just embarrassing for KC. If the Broncos aren't involved, I will pull for either the Chiefs or the Chargers (the Raider, on the other hand, should get shut out every game ever). Amazing how they came from ahead to lose against one of the more mediocre playoff teams in recent memory.
ATL @ LAR: The Rams just got plain exposed, and their kick returner needs to have his pro bowl invitation rescinded.
BUF @ JAC: I paid the least amount of attention to this game, probably because it was phenomenally boring.
CAR @ NO: This was a pretty fun game to watch. I saw Cam and/or Rivera bitching about the intentional grounding call, but it was an obvious call. Quit whining. The Saints stepped up when it counted.
Next weekend:
ATL @ PHI: I think this is the most likely game where the road team gets a win. If ATL's defense can play at all like it did on Saturday, they'll beat the Eagles.
TEN @ NE: I don't know what the line is on this game, but if it's less than New England by 25, I'd be shocked.
JAC @ PIT: I think this game will look a lot like the Buffalo game, and I wouldn't be surprised if Pittsburgh wins 13-3 or something like that.
NO @ MIN: Pick 'em. I'll take the Vikings only because I think it would be fun to see the team get a "home game" for the Super Bowl.
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TEN vs. PATS 13 point spread.
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TEN vs. PATS 13 point spread.
Yea, I can that being a beat down. Whenever people start questioning the Pats, it seems they take out their anger on the next opponent who in this case happens to be a fairly weak playoff team on the road.
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Well, let's hope the divisional round brings a little more to the table than the wildcard. What a snooze fest. The Panthers/Saints game was somewhat exciting until the last head scratching 5:00 mins where either team couldn't figure out anything. :\
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Here's Belichick's weekly radio interview. He talks about the ESPN story and about the Titans. Funny stuff on Randy Moss.
https://www.weei.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/bill-belichick-dhk-strongly-denies-meeting-roger-goodell-last-week?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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I for one am so freaking tired of the Patriots I'll be happy when Belichick and Brady walk away. Great team, no doubt. They're just tiresome. Not all their fault, a lot of it is the media though Belichick is a pretty unlikable guy, but I don't want to see them in the Super Bowl again. It's really not fun at all for a casual fan to see the same unlikable team winning over and over (at least this casual fan).
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I for one am so freaking tired of the Patriots I'll be happy when Belichick and Brady walk away. Great team, no doubt. They're just tiresome. Not all their fault, a lot of it is the media though Belichick is a pretty unlikable guy, but I don't want to see them in the Super Bowl again. It's really not fun at all for a casual fan to see the same unlikable team winning over and over (at least this casual fan).
I hear this a lot, but I'm not sure what people expect. I for one would MUCH - this isn't even close - rather see guys like Brady and Belichick getting down to business and getting it done, no "dabbing" or whatever it's called, no huge celebrations like you just lost your virginity on a 12-yard first down play, no carping about "the journey" and "adversity" (though Brady did throw that bon mot out recently; :( ), none of the other nonsense that seems to have permeated the league in recent years. Just win, baby.
I hear a lot of people say guys like Cam Newton are "fun" to watch. Well, sorry, in my opinion they're losers, and I'd rather watch people at the apex of their game. In my view, "Cam Newton" is "Justin Bieber" (or whoever your pop tart of the day is) and the "Patriots" are "Dream Theater" or "King Crimson" (or whoever your prog gods of the day are).
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If it weren’t for being such a douche, Cam Newton would be awesome.
So much talent....
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If a team is good, why begrudge them having repeated success? I hate all the efforts to create parity (read: dynasty-busting) over the years. I have no problem with seeing teams be able to build for the long-term and enjoy the fruits of that. Otherwise, it is just a rotating cast of stars, and you are just rooting for your team's uniforms rather than the players.
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It's pretty simple: Even if Team X is not a team you hate (either because Team X and your team are rivals or for whatever other reason), it's a bit of a grind or boring for Team X to win all the time. The Patriots have become the Yankees of the late 1990s/early 2000s.
Ask me whom I think will win the AFC, and I'll tell you it's the Patriots, Steelers, Jaguars and Titans (in that order). Ask me whom I'd like to see win the AFC, and the order would be flipped.
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... it's a bit of a grind or boring for Team X to win all the time.
I think the point was this is subjective and not an opinion necessarily shared by everyone.
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It's pretty simple: Even if Team X is not a team you hate (either because Team X and your team are rivals or for whatever other reason), it's a bit of a grind or boring for Team X to win all the time. The Patriots have become the Yankees of the late 1990s/early 2000s.
Ask me whom I think will win the AFC, and I'll tell you it's the Patriots, Steelers, Jaguars and Titans (in that order). Ask me whom I'd like to see win the AFC, and the order would be flipped.
I would say the Pats are like only the early 90's Yankees. Drafted talent and low cost vets. Later on, the Yankees spent crazy money for free agents and only this year the Pats signed Gilmore to a contract which I think he's not worthy of.
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... it's a bit of a grind or boring for Team X to win all the time.
I think the point was this is subjective and not an opinion necessarily shared by everyone.
Of course, but it should hardly be a surprise that a great many people do feel this way.
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... it's a bit of a grind or boring for Team X to win all the time.
I think the point was this is subjective and not an opinion necessarily shared by everyone.
Of course, but it should hardly be a surprise that a great many people do feel this way.
It's not a surprise, but I do find it odd that "a great many people" (which you only need to look in P/R to know is not a great judge of anything) resort to "hoping they go away" rather than actually beating them.
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You can add me to the crowd that doesn't like seeing the same team constantly win (I feel more strongly about this college football than NFL though). It's not really fun for the uninvested fan (aka the fan of a team that doesn't make it to the playoffs). However, I don't take this out on the Patriots nor think rules need to be changed to make there be more parity. I just flat out think most of the NFL teams just aren't really good at the moment and the Patriots/Steelers have benefitted from their stability while the rest of the NFL scatters to find coaches and quarterbacks. I have to respect what those teams have done even if as a fan, I don't enjoy constantly watching the same teams win.
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I actually think it takes a sick mind to demand your team win every single year, and you never want another fan base or team to enjoy success. For example I’m a Red Sox fan but was overjoyed with the Cubs and Astros winning the last 2 World Series.
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I don't think it's a demand but as a Pats fan there is an expectation. What has it been, 8 years with 12 + wins?
I'll say it again, as a kid I saw Pittsburgh & San Fran become a dynasty then in my 20's I saw Dallas do it. I wondered if I would ever see that here in my lifetime.
Now I cherish this because I will never see this kind of run ever agsin at this level.
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I half paid attention to the games this weekend:
ATL @ LAR: The Rams just got plain exposed, and their kick returner needs to have his pro bowl invitation rescinded.
Exposed? LOL.... Outplayed? Yes. It happens, it's the NFL.
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Holy dorkage!
(https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/a787091bed9546f3bb35f847e937b446-780x527.jpg)
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I half paid attention to the games this weekend:
ATL @ LAR: The Rams just got plain exposed, and their kick returner needs to have his pro bowl invitation rescinded.
Exposed? LOL.... Outplayed? Yes. It happens, it's the NFL.
As much as I hate the Rams (sorry, man; I'm a 49ers fan; I have to hate the Rams), I have to have your back on that one. They're a good team. They just had a dropoff at the end of the season and got outplayed in that game at a time when Atlanta is hot. I don't think anything was "exposed" in that game.
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If it weren’t for being such a douche, Cam Newton would be awesome.
So much talent....
And he is wasting a lot of his talent. When you think about how big he is, the arm he was given, and his ability to run the ball, he should be dominating the NFL every year, but he's not, and why? Because his fundamentals suck.
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Holy dorkage!
(https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/a787091bed9546f3bb35f847e937b446-780x527.jpg)
Raiders hire a guy who hasn't coached a game in 10 seasons and who, in his last six seasons coaching, had a 45-51 record. The Commitment to Excrement continues!
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But the owner says he's got the right haircut.
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If it weren’t for being such a douche, Cam Newton would be awesome.
So much talent....
And he is wasting a lot of his talent. When you think about how big he is, the arm he was given, and his ability to run the ball, he should be dominating the NFL every year, but he's not, and why? Because his fundamentals suck.
Steve Young said this about three years ago: his biggest flaw is that he doesn't know what he needs to do to become elite. He's been told he's gifted for so long, he doesn't put in the work. Guys like Brees and Brady... they are/were in their late 30's, early 40's and still working on footwork, and arm motion, and what not. It's what I like about Wilson; he puts in the same effort.
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I half paid attention to the games this weekend:
ATL @ LAR: The Rams just got plain exposed, and their kick returner needs to have his pro bowl invitation rescinded.
Exposed? LOL.... Outplayed? Yes. It happens, it's the NFL.
As much as I hate the Rams (sorry, man; I'm a 49ers fan; I have to hate the Rams), I have to have your back on that one. They're a good team. They just had a dropoff at the end of the season and got outplayed in that game at a time when Atlanta is hot. I don't think anything was "exposed" in that game.
I think next year our rivalry is gonna get kicked up a notch! Bring back the old SoCal vs. NoCal Football rivalry of old!
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Well, at least we can be friends in the offseason. ;)
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Holy dorkage!
(https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/a787091bed9546f3bb35f847e937b446-780x527.jpg)
:lol
Some talk about Saban could be interesting in the Giants job... no thanks IMO. His run away from Miami was enough to let me know how this guy reacts to adversity in the NFL. He's a great coach no doubt, but the college to NFL experiment rarely works and it already failed with him and I can't shake his run away before the season ended. Also, there's way too many people here thinking we are going to get Belichick and I think that's very unrealistic. I'd be happy with Josh McDaniels though.
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It's being reported that the Giants will hire Matt Patricia from the Pats as the new HC of the NYG.
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My only dislike is that I would have liked the Giants to go after someone with head coach experience as the failure of McAdoo I think can at least somewhat be attributed to someone who wasn't ready to be a head coach. I think there's potential with Patricia, but I would have liked McDaniels a bit better because even though he failed as a head coach, I feel like he probably learned a lot and would be better off in his second try. Someone who's only ever worked under belichick as an assistant has been more miss than hit historically.
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For sure. 1st time head coaching is the hot trend right now.
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I haven't read anywhere that's it's definite, just that someone decided he's the favorite.
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For sure. 1st time head coaching is the hot trend right now.
And a lot of the coaching isn't that great in the league atm. Which I attribute to this. But coaches have to start somewhere, I just wish the experiments weren't with my team as we just finished the last failure of a first time head coach. Either way, I don't really hate the hire. The guy is super smart and while offensive minds are fun to watch, defense wins in the end so I'd prefer a defensive minded head coach.
I haven't read anywhere that's it's definite, just that someone decided he's the favorite.
They can't make it official until the coach they are hiring's current team's season is officially over. So I don't think anything definite will come till then, but I believe the reports that he is likely the guy. It's not odd for things to be set like this without being official.
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We will know where Josh McD and Patricia will be next year before the Pats season is over.
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It's being reported that the Giants will hire Matt Patricia from the Pats as the new HC of the NYG.
I think that means that Eli has a year or two left in NY, then. I can't see bringing in a first-time, former defensive coordinator as your new head coach and saying "Hey, and groom this new franchise QB for us while you're at it". Though if any team would do that it's the Gints. Fucking Giants.
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Some talk about Saban could be interesting in the Giants job... no thanks IMO. His run away from Miami was enough to let me know how this guy reacts to adversity in the NFL. He's a great coach no doubt, but the college to NFL experiment rarely works and it already failed with him and I can't shake his run away before the season ended. Also, there's way too many people here thinking we are going to get Belichick and I think that's very unrealistic. I'd be happy with Josh McDaniels though.
Wow...history notwithstanding, I can't imagine why Saban would want to leave his high-level minor league football job. He's king of the world in the south and would have to work much harder in the NFL.
As a Broncos fan, I will caution you about any optimism over Josh McDaniels. He was a complete train wreck in his not quite two seasons in Denver.
All the talk I've heard is that Matt Patricia may go to the Giants.
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Seahawks fire OC Derrell Bevell. When asked, Pete Carroll said they were going instead of RUNNING ahead with Bevell, they are going to PASS on retaining him.
Now if they just ditch Tom Cable, maybe they can work on establishing a functioning offence.
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Some talk about Saban could be interesting in the Giants job... no thanks IMO. His run away from Miami was enough to let me know how this guy reacts to adversity in the NFL. He's a great coach no doubt, but the college to NFL experiment rarely works and it already failed with him and I can't shake his run away before the season ended. Also, there's way too many people here thinking we are going to get Belichick and I think that's very unrealistic. I'd be happy with Josh McDaniels though.
Wow...history notwithstanding, I can't imagine why Saban would want to leave his high-level minor league football job. He's king of the world in the south and would have to work much harder in the NFL.
As a Broncos fan, I will caution you about any optimism over Josh McDaniels. He was a complete train wreck in his not quite two seasons in Denver.
All the talk I've heard is that Matt Patricia may go to the Giants.
SOMEONE will give McDaniels a shot again, but I think all the signs are that he rides out "Belichick-Brady". He's not exactly damaged goods - and of course every nincompoop will point out Belichick's time in Cleveland - but since Denver rebounded and won a Super Bowl, he's got a fair amount to overcome.
I'm now a Raider fan. I'm loving the Gruden in Oakland thing. He's my kind of coach, and I love all the former players (like Jerry Rice) telling the current team, "you better be on your game". Related to this, I think Derek Carr is somewhere else in 12 to 18 months. Is it too early for "New England Patriots QB Derek Carr"? (Though if he can't play for Gruden, because Gruden won't stroke his fragile ego, he can't play for Belichick, either).
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Holy dorkage!
(https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/a787091bed9546f3bb35f847e937b446-780x527.jpg)
This means Oakland will have 2 Chucky's in the organization.
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Now if they just ditch Tom Cable, maybe they can work on establishing a functioning offence.
Woohoo! See you later, crafter of the shittiest offensive lines in the league.
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Can't imagine why Gruden would want to go back to the Raiders. Oh wait, Al Davis is gone. :lol
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Can't imagine why Gruden would want to go back to the Raiders. Oh wait, Al Davis is gone. :lol
Not sure if the first part of your post was serious, but... When he was let go the first time, he didn't want to leave. No doubt he still felt he had unfinished business and felt he had more to do in his coaching career. I am sure the passage of time has only contributed to that feeling. More likely than not, I would guess that feelings like those, along with a heft pay raise after working as a commentator for all these years, pretty much made it a no brainer when the opportunity presented itself. If he earns half of that contract and is only halfway smart with his money, he is MORE than set for life and can take it easy after putting in a few hard years coaching. I can't see NOT taking it if I were in his shoes.
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Raiders hire a guy who hasn't coached a game in 10 seasons and who, in his last six seasons coaching, had a 45-51 record. The Commitment to Excrement continues!
As a Raiders fan I'm thrilled about this. Gruden has passion and fire, and that is what the team lacked from the coaches this past season. I think it could be the thing that puts them over the top, really. They have talent, just need the discipline and fiery determination of Chucky to push them.
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Can someone explain why the Rooney rule is needed? Why force someone to interview someone, regardless of skin color, if they know the candidate they want? I get the intent is to get more non-white coaches hired but the fact that the Raiders are being investigated even when they interviewed a black coach makes no sense.
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Can someone explain why the Rooney rule is needed? Why force someone to interview someone, regardless of skin color, if they know the candidate they want? I get the intent is to get more non-white coaches hired but the fact that the Raiders are being investigated even when they interviewed a black coach makes no sense.
It's pretty easy to find literature discussing why it was put in place in the first place, but it's fairly absurd to apply it in this particular situation. It's obvious at this point that Del Rio was nothing but a placeholder until Raiders ownership could convince Gruden to take the job. The Raiders were never looking for a head coach. Rather, they wanted Jon Gruden. Requiring the Raiders to interview ANYONE else ("minority" or otherwise) would have been pointless. It's even more stupid to apply the Rooney Rule when you're talking about the franchise that had the first Hispanic starting quarterback in pro football history, the NFL's first Hispanic head coach, the NFL's first black coach (in the modern era), and the NFL's first female executive. As much as I utterly despise the Raiders, and as ineptly as the team has been run over the past decade and a half, the Raiders have demonstrated a longer and deeper commitment to "diversity" than any other NFL franchise.
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Titan running back Murray will not play tonight. I saw where two of the Patriots running backs are out for the game. The titans have a much improved Henry. How much will the Patriots be hurt by the loss of the two running backs? A key for the Patriots will be to contain Mariotta on the run.
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One has only played in a few games. Burkhead will be missed but both Lewis and White are formidable.
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It doesn't matter. Tonight might as well be another bye for the Patriots.
This game has to be agonizing for Eagles fans, knowing that even if you win, you still have Nick Foles at QB and thus no real shot to win the Super Bowl despite being the 1 seed. That is rough.
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It doesn't matter. Tonight might as well be another bye for the Patriots.
This game has to be agonizing for Eagles fans, knowing that even if you win, you still have Nick Foles at QB and thus no real shot to win the Super Bowl despite being the 1 seed. That is rough.
If the Titans manage to pull off the upset tonight (which I sincerely doubt will happen), the Super Bowl is anybody’s for the taking.
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It doesn't matter. Tonight might as well be another bye for the Patriots.
It's actually known as a Double Bye around here. :lol
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This game has to be agonizing for Eagles fans, knowing that even if you win, you still have Nick Foles at QB and thus no real shot to win the Super Bowl despite being the 1 seed. That is rough.
Yeah, Atlanta just helped Philly delay the inevitable. Another snooze fest playoff game. It was more Atlanta losing than it was Philly winning. :\
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Yeah, Atlanta WTF?? 10 points??
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@CaptTouchback
8m8 minutes ago
More
The least the #Patriots could do is hand the ball to the ref after the TD and let him spike it. #TENvsNE
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@NOTSportsCenter
9m9 minutes ago
More
BREAKING: The #TENvsNE lead official has been fired for violating league rules by actually calling a penalty against the Patriots
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:lol
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The least the #Patriots could do is hand the ball to the ref after the TD and let him spike it. #TENvsNE
:lol
(https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/cvkuzzzwiaep628.jpg)
#Timesup
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@JohnGavinJr
1m1 minute ago
More
I’m not a Pats hater but this is WWE level fixed. Refs have ruined yet another game #TENvsNE
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(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/december-2009-new-england-patriots-quarterback-tom-brady-is-helped-up-picture-id577732388)
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Yeah, Atlanta WTF?? 10 points??
Yup, they choked again. And lol at Titans fans going batshit crazy over the refereeing on the Titans message board like they are actually surprised at how the calls are going :lol
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CBS and my TV carrier are having a pissing contest so CBS is currently off my channel line-up. I hope I am not missing a good game..... :laugh:
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Cable companies should give money back when they fuck us with channels. The 3 major networks are a staple.
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It doesn't matter. Tonight might as well be another bye for the Patriots.
This game has to be agonizing for Eagles fans, knowing that even if you win, you still have Nick Foles at QB and thus no real shot to win the Super Bowl despite being the 1 seed. That is rough.
Honestly? I think they honestly feel like they have a legit shot. The mood that I'm getting is not "borrowed time", but rather "There's no need to fear! UNDERDOG is here!"
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Look, if I'm Mularky, or Tom Foolery or Balderdash or whatever his name is, and I get to trade "a few more calls" versus "having my best O-lineman back" and "having White still be out", I'm taking the latter every day of the week. The officials didn't make this a 35-7 (for all intents and purposes) game. The players on the field did. The Tennessee D could not stop the Patriots, it's that simple.
I did feel like I heard this quote by Mularky somewhere, though it might have been the vodka haze: "Fuck all of you in the press. Brady, Kraft and Belichick are as tight as a drum, and they proved it for 60 minutes tonight. And Patricia and McDaniels are happy right where they are, fuck Indy, NY and Detroit. Thanks for stirring up the hornet's nests, assholes."
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When Adam Schefter puts it out there that Patricia is a done deal for the Lions. It's a done deal.
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It didn't seem like Patricia was taken seriously as a head coaching candidate before this year. I am very interested to see how he does.
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I am stunned that the Tomlin-led Steelers came out lethargic against a team they perceive to be inferior to them, said no one ever. :lol :lol
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At home......
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Boy the Steelers are firing on all cylinders today.
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I'll remind people of the '94 NFC Championship Game, where the 49ers got out to a shocking 21pt lead early, and yet barely won the game, and only with some help from Barry Switzer's silly ass. Pitt's still the better team, and Bell is still a fucking beast.
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We'll see about that. The Jags have outscored them this year 51-16 in 5 1/2 quarters, all of which were played in Pittsburgh. Hard to call the Steelers the better team when you consider that.
Fournette is hurt now though, so that helps the Steelers.
Also, while the Cowboys made a comeback in that game against the 49ers in '94, they were never within a score, and the '9ers won by 10.
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Jesus.
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I never in a million years thought I'd tune in and find this 28-7 Jacksonville. Man.
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We'll see about that. The Jags have outscored them this year 51-16 in 5 1/2 quarters, all of which were played in Pittsburgh. Hard to call the Steelers the better team when you consider that.
Fournette is hurt now though, so that helps the Steelers.
Also, while the Cowboys made a comeback in that game against the 49ers in '94, they were never within a score, and the '9ers won by 10.
I never expected the Steelers to come back and win. I was just suggesting not to think the game is over.
And my recollection is that SF doesn't score the final TD if Switzer doesn't run out onto the field. Failing that Dallas gets the ball back with some momentum. Take that away and SF is up be 3 against a Dallas team that mostly outplayed them after the first quarter and a half. We'll never know how it might have played out, but I liked Dallas' chances a lot.
Also, pointing at the other team when you run past them is one of the coolest things you can do. Shame it's something that can get you ejected now.
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We'll see about that. The Jags have outscored them this year 51-16 in 5 1/2 quarters, all of which were played in Pittsburgh. Hard to call the Steelers the better team when you consider that.
Fournette is hurt now though, so that helps the Steelers.
Also, while the Cowboys made a comeback in that game against the 49ers in '94, they were never within a score, and the '9ers won by 10.
I never expected the Steelers to come back and win. I was just suggesting not to think the game is over.
And my recollection is that SF doesn't score the final TD if Switzer doesn't run out onto the field. Failing that Dallas gets the ball back with some momentum. Take that away and SF is up be 3 against a Dallas team that mostly outplayed them after the first quarter and a half. We'll never know how it might have played out, but I liked Dallas' chances a lot.
Also, pointing at the other team when you run past them is one of the coolest things you can do. Shame it's something that can get you ejected now.
He did look like a bad ass on that play, sure enough.
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I wonder if that last second touchdown by Pittsburgh will come to haunt Jacksonville?
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I wonder if that last second touchdown by Pittsburgh will come to haunt Jacksonville?
Based on this drive, what with the "Patriots-like" fake and shovel, and the subsequent dumbass personal foul (I'm not buying he was pushed into Bell), it's not out of the question. Never count out Big Ben.
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Never count out Big Ben.
I don't know. He's no Aaron Rodgers! :neverusethis:
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You're right, he's not.
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Ben's made 3 gorgeous throws for TD's. Really nice passes.
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Yep, Granted, the 2 bad turnovers is why they are still losing, but those TD passes have all been nice. This is why he is fun to watch: he is a bit reckless, which results in big plays for his team and sometimes the other.
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you have the best running back in the league and a 6'6" QB and you drop that play?
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Holy shit what a catch.
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Antonio Brown is beasting out there.
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Holy shit what a catch.
Indeed, and maybe Ben's nicest pass yet.
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Holy shit what a catch.
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That dude Yeldon is a player.
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What a performance by the Jags. Every time you think the Steelers are about to finally tie it up, the Jags score again and extend it to 14. Steelers need a miracle now.
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This game is a good example of why it is unfair to put too much stock into postseason wins and losses when it comes to quarterbacks. Despite the two turnovers, Roethlisberger has played magnificent, yet will lose, barring a miracle.
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It amazes me how some teams just play well against other teams. If you told me the team that scored 10 points against Buffalo at home would score 45 points against Pittsburgh at their house I would have laughed but they match up well against Pittsburgh.
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This game is a good example of why it is unfair to put too much stock into postseason wins and losses when it comes to quarterbacks. Despite the two turnovers, Roethlisberger has played magnificent, yet will lose, barring a miracle.
Yup, 35 points should win you the game.
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CBS and my TV carrier are having a pissing contest so CBS is currently off my channel line-up. I hope I am not missing a good game..... :laugh:
So, for real this time.
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Not only has Mike Tomlin had spit in his beard for the last 30 minutes, but he clearly does not understand game management.
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:lol Finally, a playoff game worth watching!! :tup
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I decided to take a shower with the score 42-28, and wha??????
Going to be interesting next week, for sure. Bortles or Bartles or whatever his name is, stepped up.
Phil Simms: "Mike Tomlin has a lot to answer for how he managed the game and the decisions he made". Then Boomer talked about how Tomlin talked about "playing New England twice" and Bell's "crazy tweet" from yesterday. Basically saying the Steelers are out of control. Why would Ben come back to that?
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Phil Simms: "Mike Tomlin has a lot to answer for how he managed the game and the decisions he made". Then Boomer talked about how Tomlin talked about "playing New England twice" and Bell's "crazy tweet" from yesterday. Basically saying the Steelers are out of control. Why would Ben come back to that?
Yep. Colin Cowherd has been beating this drum the last couple years, how the Steelers just aren't "buttoned up." He's not a bad head coach, but he's not that good either. Since winning a Super Bowl with a SB-squad he inherited from Cowher, what has he done? Underachieved big time despite having a HOF QB, the best WR and arguably the best RB in football for the last 5 years.
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Remember his chuckling interview taking about revenge in the AFC Championship game? Yup, I remember.
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Since winning a Super Bowl with a SB-squad he inherited from Cowher, what has he done? Underachieved big time despite having a HOF QB, the best WR and arguably the best RB in football for the last 5 years.
Must be the 2nd Tier HOF.
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Since winning a Super Bowl with a SB-squad he inherited from Cowher, what has he done? Underachieved big time despite having a HOF QB, the best WR and arguably the best RB in football for the last 5 years.
Must be the 2nd Tier HOF.
:lol :lol
Steeler D minus Shazier was exposed badly.
Bet everything you own on this: next week the Jags will be flagged for the type of holding they did on Brown on his 2 TDs.
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This game is a good example of why it is unfair to put too much stock into postseason wins and losses when it comes to quarterbacks. Despite the two turnovers, Roethlisberger has played magnificent, yet will lose, barring a miracle.
Yeah, and even that pick wasn’t really a bad throw just a nice play by the defender, then of course fumble luck bounces the wrong way. Too many cocky mouthy a-holes on this team always plays into their opponents getting psyched up to play them.
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If you would have told me before this game that Ben would throw for 469 yards and 5 TDs, I would have bet my house on a Steelers win.
Crazy, unreal bad performance from the defense, allowing that offense to score like that is beyond ridiculous.
Additionally, Tomlin and Haley once again displayed today why they can’t take talented teams and win SBs. No attention to detail, horrible game planning and strategy, bad time management, and above all else bad play calling.
This ones going to sting for a couple.
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Also all the distractions of not wanting to be franchised, looking forward to playing the Pats.
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Just think in another half we could have for the Championship games, Case Keenum, Blake Bortles, Nick Foles and Tom Brady as QB's.
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If you would have told me before this game that Ben would throw for 469 yards and 5 TDs, I would have bet my house on a Steelers win.
Crazy, unreal bad performance from the defense, allowing that offense to score like that is beyond ridiculous.
Additionally, Tomlin and Haley once again displayed today why they can’t take talented teams and win SBs. No attention to detail, horrible game planning and strategy, bad time management, and above all else bad play calling.
This ones going to sting for a couple.
Boomer said it: 4th and 1, best running back in the league and a HOF QB, and you run THAT route? WTF?
I'm not a fan of the "swagger" methodology of coaching. I'm more a "Do your job and the trash talk will take care of itself" methodology. Really, in my view, there's little difference at this point between Mike Tomlin and Andy Reid.
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Also all the distractions of not wanting to be franchised, looking forward to playing the Pats.
They absolutely looked past this game today, and that started with the coach.
If you would have told me before this game that Ben would throw for 469 yards and 5 TDs, I would have bet my house on a Steelers win.
Crazy, unreal bad performance from the defense, allowing that offense to score like that is beyond ridiculous.
Additionally, Tomlin and Haley once again displayed today why they can’t take talented teams and win SBs. No attention to detail, horrible game planning and strategy, bad time management, and above all else bad play calling.
This ones going to sting for a couple.
Boomer said it: 4th and 1, best running back in the league and a HOF QB, and you run THAT route? WTF?
I'm not a fan of the "swagger" methodology of coaching. I'm more a "Do your job and the trash talk will take care of itself" methodology. Really, in my view, there's little difference at this point between Mike Tomlin and Andy Reid.
Yup, totally agree. There are so many glaring examples of what Steeler fans have had issues with in that game today. It’s like all the stereotypical Tomlin complaints showed up together in the same game today.
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Another great game here. Someone's shoe lace was untied, though, so they're reviewing that in the booth in New York. Following that, I think they're going to review the GEICO commercial that was run during the time out. Ridiculous.
Saints up by one with 0:14 to go, but they are not a disciplined team so this is a nail-biter.
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Following that, I think they're going to review the GEICO commercial that was run during the time out.
Trying to figure out if saving money on car insurance with GEICO is indeed surprising or not surprising.
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Now THAT was surprising!!!!
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HOOOOLLLYY SSSHHHIIITTT!!!!
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That was amazing.
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Wow.
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It's as if Cam Newton was playing Safety for New Orleans.
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I'm not big into football but I've been watching the past few weekends and this game I think got me hooked :lol
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Make that two playoff games worth watching so far. What a defensive blunder by the Saints. All you do is stay back, tackle the receiver in bounds, game over. :lol
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Just think in another half we could have for the Championship games, Case Keenum, Blake Bortles, Nick Foles and Tom Brady as QB's.
Quoting this again.
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Wow what an end to the game. I watched the entire first half of the Saints Vikings game and thought the game was over since Saints were playing like dog shit. I turn on to see the score with Saints up 21-20 with 3 ish mins left. HOLY shit did I miss a great comeback. I'm glad I got to see the rest of it live. wow what a play to end the weekend playoff games. I'm really hoping the Jags make the superbowl, I don't think they can do beat the Patriots but that's the team I'd like to win it all.
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It's as if Cam Newton was playing Safety for New Orleans.
HAHAHA, that got a laugh out loud. :)
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No way that happened. :eek :eek :eek
Bummer for Drew Brees, whose defense let him down again in an attempt to make to another Super Bowl.
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Figures I stopped watching the Vikings game to make dinner and feed the kids. Missed all the excitement. That was a crazy catch. I have serious concerns about the Vikings after that game, but in the end all the matters is the win.
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The NFC Championship is the Jeff Fisher Memorial game
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The Vikings almost gave me my yearly disappointment, but that'll have to wait a week. What an ending. I think we'll do just fine in Philly. SKOL!
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Damn, I had the Vikes but was giving 5 1/2. Why didn't they try to score a PAT at the end? ;)
[dumbest rule they instituted years ago. I mean, it's like winning on a walk off HR, but making the teams finish the inning.]
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The NFC Championship is the Jeff Fisher Memorial game
So what you're saying is that it will be a defensive struggle between two inept offenses?
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The NFC Championship is the Jeff Fisher Memorial game
So what you're saying is that it will be a defensive struggle between two inept offenses?
Moreso that Foles and Keenun were his two QBs in St Louis when he got fired, but yeah, that too!!!
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I'm going:
Atl @ Phi
Ten @ NE
Jax @ Pitt
NO @ Minn
I think the only lock is the Patriots. This could be Minnesota's hardest game in the playoffs. It will be a defensive struggle but I think the Vikings D has the edge and win 17-14. Atlanta has laid a TON of eggs this season and the Eagles are still a really good team. I think the Eagles hang on. The Jags defense will pressure Big Ben into one of his multi-INT games and pull out the win.
I wish I was a betting man!
And what a finish to the Vikings game. The Saints played like the Saints in the second half but the Vikings somehow pulled it off. I think that the Vikings vs. Eagles will be the best game remaining. I've got to go with my Vikings in this game. Both teams have great defenses but I think the Vikings have more offensive weapons.
I'm also pulling for the Jags. I think they have a legit shot against the Patriots though it's going to be tough.
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Titans fire Mularkey!
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Titans fire Mularkey!
They were just talking about an extension. Jesus.
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Weren’t they just talking extensions yesterday? Jeez...
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Josh is definitely gone.
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Interviewing coaches is something that should wait until after the damn season. It's annoying that the loser teams get to disrupt the good teams as soon as the playoffs start.
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Interviewing coaches is something that should wait until after the damn season. It's annoying that the loser teams get to disrupt the good teams as soon as the playoffs start.
I agree with this.
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I agree as well. I get that teams want to solidify their staff as soon as possible, but it's the teams that go deep into the playoffs that tend to have the candidates. It should all have to wait until after the Super Bowl.
On a side note, I have no idea why the coordinators from New England would want to leave that cushy job to take over a mess somewhere else. I guess they all want to see if they can cut it as a head coach.
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On a side note, I have no idea why the coordinators from New England would want to leave that cushy job to take over a mess somewhere else. I guess they all want to see if they can cut it as a head coach.
No one remembers the great super bowl winning coordinators.
Case in point, aside from now when they are in the news a lot, ask the casual football fan what coach took the Patriots to all their super bowls. Then ask them who the coordinators were.
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I agree as well. I get that teams want to solidify their staff as soon as possible, but it's the teams that go deep into the playoffs that tend to have the candidates. It should all have to wait until after the Super Bowl.
On a side note, I have no idea why the coordinators from New England would want to leave that cushy job to take over a mess somewhere else. I guess they all want to see if they can cut it as a head coach.
This is me with JMD. He's been elsewhere and he understands how good his situation is in NE. Moreover, he's got some sway in personnel where he is. They're not going to make him GM in Tennessee. Just seems like he's downgrading a great deal for the tile and the responsibilty.
In a similar vein, I have no idea why Gruden would want to go back to coaching. I get that $100,000,000 is a ton of money, but he's probably doing very well announcing games, and the quality of life after taking a coaching gig is going to be nightmarish. He's got a very laid back part time job now, that allows him to travel to two cities a week, eat great food, see some good games, and basically just be knowledgeable. Now he's taking on a job that he essentially has to work 24-7-365, and he doesn't get to enjoy the perks that come with it.
I'd take a million a year and a great job over 10 million a year and having to be an NFL coach easily. THere's really no contest. It's like the people who actually want to be president. They're not wired right.
edit: Seems the dude's making 6.5/yr announcing games. That basically takes money right out of the equation. He just wants to be a coach again.
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Gruden is a high energy guy and probably misses the grind of being an HC. Yeah, it's not for everyone and I'm sure he probably doesn't need the money. He was set for life after leaving TB. It's all personality driven. He's going back to coaching because he loves it.
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Jalen Ramsey if the Jags complained about the "disrespect" that the Steelers gave to the Jags talking about the rematch with the Patriots. Now he's talking about winning the Superbowl. Good luck son, you just screwed yourself.
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Hoping for a Vikes Pats SB. Vikings are a fun bunch to watch.
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The team that has the best shot at beating New England is Jacksonville this Sunday. Neither of the NFC teams can do it.
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That's why I'm hoping for a Jags/Vikings SB. Or Jags/Eagles but there's no way Philly beats Minny. Hopefully the Jags will take it all.
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Titans fire Mularkey!
No coach deserves to be fired more than Mike Tomlin. Then Haley right behind him. I drool thinking of the Steeler offense coached by Belichick/McDaniels are any tandem even remotely competent. Tomlin has made INEXCUSABLE coaching blunders and if the Rooneys were actually committed to winning he would be gone. Minority ethnicity makes him fire-proof I guess. Not to mention he lets the inmates run the asylum, primarily that useless Mike Mitchell who can’t tackle or cover but can sure talk.
I hope Jesse James slept well last night. If he had held onto the ball a few weeks ago it would have been NE getting smoked by the Jag’s D yesterday and Pit would have had the gimme game vs Ten (a team they had already thrashed this year).
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On a side note, I have no idea why the coordinators from New England would want to leave that cushy job to take over a mess somewhere else. I guess they all want to see if they can cut it as a head coach.
No one remembers the great super bowl winning coordinators.
Case in point, aside from now when they are in the news a lot, ask the casual football fan what coach took the Patriots to all their super bowls. Then ask them who the coordinators were.
I don't think that's entirely true. Ask Dick LeBeau. But point taken.
I do think that the skillset to be a great coordinator is not necessarily the skillset to be a great head coach. The list of great coordinators to become great head coaches drops off after "Belichick", and is littered with guys named "Haley" and "Weis" and "Mularkey".
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Jalen Ramsey if the Jags complained about the "disrespect" that the Steelers gave to the Jags talking about the rematch with the Patriots. Now he's talking about winning the Superbowl. Good luck son, you just screwed yourself.
No shit, King. I don't know about you, but one of the greatest things about being a Pats fan (and a Uconn basketball fan, because Geno Auriemma is the exact same way) is watching the latest in a long line of shitheads that think they can out psyche a team who's one common thread from Day One until today has been extreme mental toughness. If you're going to insist on playing the mental game, if anything do things to get the Pats looking a game ahead; do NOT give them a reason to hunker down and take one game at a time.
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It makes me laugh that this player was bitching about Pittsburgh looking over his team and he just did the same thing against the champions.
Someone tell you it doesn't matter but I've heard directly from Bill Belichick and players it matters. they use it all the time as motivation.
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The team that has the best shot at beating New England is Jacksonville this Sunday. Neither of the NFC teams can do it.
The Vikings have the defense to win the game, but only if they're offense plays better than it has in recent weeks. Plus the fact that its essentially a home game for them certainly helps a bit.
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No one remembers the great super bowl winning coordinators.
By-and-large, I agree. But there are some co-ordinators that transcend this statement. Patricia is likely one of them. 7 straight AFCC's, with a rotating cast of offensive talent.
Oh, and Wade Phillips won SB50 for Denver, not Kubiak. :biggrin:
Changing lanes - since I was just looking at the AFCC history - since 2002, the AFCC has only been played in Foxborough, Mile-high, Pitt, and Indi. :omg: Talk about a lack of parity!
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The least the #Patriots could do is hand the ball to the ref after the TD and let him spike it. #TENvsNE
:lol
(https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/cvkuzzzwiaep628.jpg)
#Timesup
By the way, the official in this picture is Sarah Thomas, the NFL's only female official. Can't blame Bill for wanting to get his hands on her....
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What will be interesting for Minnesota is that this year, the AFC are the designated home team for the Super Bowl, so if the Vikings reach the big game in their home stadium, they'll have to use the visitors' dressing rooms.
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The least the #Patriots could do is hand the ball to the ref after the TD and let him spike it. #TENvsNE
:lol
(https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/cvkuzzzwiaep628.jpg)
#Timesup
By the way, the official in this picture is Sarah Thomas, the NFL's only female official. Can't blame Bill for wanting to get his hands on her....
And the assault and harassment charges in 3...2...1...
In all seriousness, though, that has to be an intimidating experience; rookie Down Judge (in her third year in the league) being lectured by arguably the greatest coach in NFL history.
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The Belistrator
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What will be interesting for Minnesota is that this year, the AFC are the designated home team for the Super Bowl, so if the Vikings reach the big game in their home stadium, they'll have to use the visitors' dressing rooms.
The Vikings will get to use the home locker rooms and they'll get to practice in their own practice facilities. Even though both of those things are designated for the home team, which is the AFC team. That came up here in Minnesota a couple weeks ago and it's apparently been settled by the NFL.
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The least the #Patriots could do is hand the ball to the ref after the TD and let him spike it. #TENvsNE
:lol
(https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/cvkuzzzwiaep628.jpg)
#Timesup
By the way, the official in this picture is Sarah Thomas, the NFL's only female official. Can't blame Bill for wanting to get his hands on her....
And the assault and harassment charges in 3...2...1...
In all seriousness, though, that has to be an intimidating experience; rookie Down Judge (in her third year in the league) being lectured by arguably the greatest coach in NFL history.
I'm going to go out on a limb and surmise that you don't get to the be first chick referee in the NFL without being pretty confident and strong willed. I wouldn't be too surprised if the next words out of her mouth were "take your fucking hands off of me right now or you'll be coaching this game from the parking lot."
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The least the #Patriots could do is hand the ball to the ref after the TD and let him spike it. #TENvsNE
:lol
(https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/cvkuzzzwiaep628.jpg)
#Timesup
By the way, the official in this picture is Sarah Thomas, the NFL's only female official. Can't blame Bill for wanting to get his hands on her....
And the assault and harassment charges in 3...2...1...
In all seriousness, though, that has to be an intimidating experience; rookie Down Judge (in her third year in the league) being lectured by arguably the greatest coach in NFL history.
I'm going to go out on a limb and surmise that you don't get to the be first chick referee in the NFL without being pretty confident and strong willed. I wouldn't be too surprised if the next words out of her mouth were "take your fucking hands off of me right now or you'll be coaching this game from the parking lot."
Seriously. I hate to be all #metoo on this, but would BB EVER touch a male official like that?
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So I did a couple of minutes of looking into things and learned some stuff.
First off:
Seriously. I hate to be all #metoo on this, but would BB EVER touch a male official like that?
Absolutely he would. My initial thought when seeing it was that he was making a point to treat her no differently than he would a male ref, and I think that's the right thing to do.
However, he didn't actually touch her. In fact he went out of his way not to. It's not a gif so I can't post it, but the full replay of what went down shows that he was demonstrating how somebody was tackled, and he kept his hands off of her. Perfectly reasonable, unless you look for reasons to bitch about the man and his team.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/12/bill-belichick-touches-nfl-female-ref-official-sarah-thomas-picture-fine-suspension
This was a non-event and apparently the NFL and Thomas saw it the same way.
And she is apparently quite strong willed. An interviewer described a woman who never broke eye contact, even between questions, and "makes you feel like you’re in the presence of an authority not to be messed with." That's not at all surprising to me.
I found the most interesting thing about her to be the smile on her face after getting knocked down in a play. This is a girl that loves here work.
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/UOwSbjQPGcaPyaKLbXzD-_Skp54=/0x0:501x300/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:501x300):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7699589/linejudge.0.gif)
She got up and said "I think I broke my wrist," and she was right. Also landed her in the concussion protocol.
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BTW, Belichick is explaining to her about a defensive player draping over a Pats receiver. He's not groping her. :lol
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynbqA7tS4eg
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynbqA7tS4eg
I can't blame Joe. I have a thing for Suzie as well. :lol
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Did Suzy have some face-work done recently? I don't watch the pre/post-game shows or anything she would be on but when I saw her recently she looked noticeably different.
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Sexier. Lol. Not sure. Longer hair. damn I opened Pandora's Box shouldn't be talking about this. LOL
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Taking age out of the question, there has to have been some serious scalpel work here.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f5/6e/99/f56e998cf918e4fd47b12dc8d7bbe22c--sport.jpg)
(https://251d2191a60056d6ba74-1671eccf3a0275494885881efb0852a4.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/7497652_espns-suzy-kolber-talks-about-her-big-break_6d3ae3c7_m.jpg?bg=6A6173)
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he was demonstrating how somebody was tackled, and he kept his hands off of her. Perfectly reasonable, unless you look for reasons to bitch about the man and his team.
Fair enough... I made a wrong assessment of a single moment of time / picture completely out of context. I wasn't necessarily looking for a reason to bitch, just made a (wrong) judgment on a single picture.
Context!
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Taking age out of the question, there has to have been some serious scalpel work here.
Yeah, cutting Kingshmegland's heart out.
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Joe Namath still wants to kiss her.
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So do I. Lol. Her neck shows her age and her cheekbones are not as defined so I say she has not got work done.
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What will be interesting for Minnesota is that this year, the AFC are the designated home team for the Super Bowl, so if the Vikings reach the big game in their home stadium, they'll have to use the visitors' dressing rooms.
The Vikings will get to use the home locker rooms and they'll get to practice in their own practice facilities. Even though both of those things are designated for the home team, which is the AFC team. That came up here in Minnesota a couple weeks ago and it's apparently been settled by the NFL.
Maybe they've updated it since, but I read in the Star Tribune that the NFL hadn't decided if the Vikes would be allowed to use the Gjallarhorn, the Jaws like sound effect when they get a first down or something like that. I could see that being a tad bit unfair
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What will be interesting for Minnesota is that this year, the AFC are the designated home team for the Super Bowl, so if the Vikings reach the big game in their home stadium, they'll have to use the visitors' dressing rooms.
The Vikings will get to use the home locker rooms and they'll get to practice in their own practice facilities. Even though both of those things are designated for the home team, which is the AFC team. That came up here in Minnesota a couple weeks ago and it's apparently been settled by the NFL.
Maybe they've updated it since, but I read in the Star Tribune that the NFL hadn't decided if the Vikes would be allowed to use the Gjallarhorn, the Jaws like sound effect when they get a first down or something like that. I could see that being a tad bit unfair
As the home side, would the AFC team get it then? :lol
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That would be a total mindfuck for the Vikings that it would almost be kind of funny. But no, I think it was the Vikings would get to use all of their stuff as if they were the home team. Which would negate the whole AFC Home thing, so I don't think it's gonna happen.
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Yeah, it makes sense that they wouldn't be able to use the in-game stuff.
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Yeah, it makes sense that they wouldn't be able to use the in-game stuff.
What are your thoughts on the game vs the Eagles next week? I'm kinda nervous with their defense
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I think the Vikings are the better team given the QB situation. But on the road in the playoffs, it's anybody's game really. The Vikings offense needs to step up.
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As a Vikings fan, I am not expecting them to win in Philly next weekend, but at the same time, if they do, I won't be shocked.
I just did a search and the forecast for next Sunday is High of 53, lol.
If it is colder, I fully expect a lower scoring game.
They also had their 1st loss last season at Philadelphia, after starting out 5-0.
Also I looked it up, remembering the 2 losses the Vikings had to the Eagles in 2005 and 2009 (2004 and 2008 seasons).
Granted, those teams records were not as good, nor was their defense as good.
But every time the Vikings have had to go on the road for the NFC Championship game, they've lost
(edit: 1973..long before I was born, they won in Dallas, and they of course went on to get destroyed by the Miami Dolphins in the SB).
I'm not sure why I should believe this will be any different. But it does seem silly if they end up losing to a team with their backup QB (although technically, Keenum is or was as well, and Nick Foles was a starter for a few years, but hardly had a season Wentz was having until he got hurt).
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The more I think about the Vikings game, the only edge the Eagles have is being at home. The Vikings defense should be able to shut down the Eagle Offense and the vikings have more weapons on offense to make the difference. Still think it will be close but I think the Vikings will pull it off.
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So do I. Lol. Her neck shows her age and her cheekbones are not as defined so I say she has not got work done.
I don't think she's had work done. Having said that, she looks way better now. Not a fan at all of that pixie-type haircut. I like the long flowing locks, and I'm a sucker for a pretty smile, so "check".
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Suzy never needed work. She was always pretty, but the long hair does wonders for her look. I never appreciated short hair on women. Just me.
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I actually would be very surprised if the Eagles win. I was surprised they won last week, but at the same time the Falcons were very inconsistent this year and they didn’t play well last week. I just think the Vikings are the better team, especially with Foles starting for the Eagles.
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The least the #Patriots could do is hand the ball to the ref after the TD and let him spike it. #TENvsNE
:lol
(https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/cvkuzzzwiaep628.jpg)
#Timesup
By the way, the official in this picture is Sarah Thomas, the NFL's only female official. Can't blame Bill for wanting to get his hands on her....
And the assault and harassment charges in 3...2...1...
In all seriousness, though, that has to be an intimidating experience; rookie Down Judge (in her third year in the league) being lectured by arguably the greatest coach in NFL history.
I'm going to go out on a limb and surmise that you don't get to the be first chick referee in the NFL without being pretty confident and strong willed. I wouldn't be too surprised if the next words out of her mouth were "take your fucking hands off of me right now or you'll be coaching this game from the parking lot."
Seriously. I hate to be all #metoo on this, but would BB EVER touch a male official like that?
Here's an article about this incident (which, by the way, occurred over two years ago): https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/12/bill-belichick-touches-nfl-female-ref-official-sarah-thomas-picture-fine-suspension
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Taking age out of the question, there has to have been some serious scalpel work here.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f5/6e/99/f56e998cf918e4fd47b12dc8d7bbe22c--sport.jpg)
(https://251d2191a60056d6ba74-1671eccf3a0275494885881efb0852a4.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/7497652_espns-suzy-kolber-talks-about-her-big-break_6d3ae3c7_m.jpg?bg=6A6173)
I don't think so. She's smiling in the older picture, so that's going to make certain features stand out that won't stand out when she's not smiling. I think the hair makes a big difference, and I'm another who GENERALLY prefers longer hair to shorter hair.
As far as this weekend's games, I'll be quietly rooting for the Jaguars, but I don't expect that to be much of a game. I think/hope the Eagles/Vikings game will be competitive. Doesn't appear weather will play a role in either game.
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It's nice that in the middle of the off season, with nothing else going on in the football world, we're still able to find highly important football matters to discuss!
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It's nice that in the middle of the off season, with nothing else going on in the football world, we're still able to find highly important football matters to discuss!
We can't multitask Nick? :lol
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Todd Haley gone! YESSSSSSSS
Too bad Tomlin couldn’t go with him. New OC will likely be their QB coach.
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Todd Haley gone! YESSSSSSSS
Too bad Tomlin couldn’t go with him. New OC will likely be their QB coach.
To no surprise, I back this decision 100%.
Tomlin has HUGE gaps as a coach, but the fact of the matter is this - they shouldn't fire him because unless Bill wants to bail on the Pats and come coach in Pittsburgh, they won't get a better coach than Tomlin to fill the void.
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Todd Haley gone! YESSSSSSSS
Too bad Tomlin couldn’t go with him. New OC will likely be their QB coach.
To no surprise, I back this decision 100%.
Tomlin has HUGE gaps as a coach, but the fact of the matter is this - they shouldn't fire him because unless Bill wants to bail on the Pats and come coach in Pittsburgh, they won't get a better coach than Tomlin to fill the void.
Now THAT I disagree with. If you're talking coaches in the league right now, I'd take Sean Payton, Bruce Arians (yes, I know he retired), John Harbaugh, Mike McCarthy, and Pete Carroll over Tomlin. Maybe even Doug Pederson and John Fox (yes, I know he's been relieved of his duties).
Though I will say this: the fact that Gruden is coming back shows there is a dearth right now of quality, road-tested, battle-scarred head coaches, and a LOT of coaches in this league that have a lot to prove.
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Todd Haley gone! YESSSSSSSS
Too bad Tomlin couldn’t go with him. New OC will likely be their QB coach.
To no surprise, I back this decision 100%.
Tomlin has HUGE gaps as a coach, but the fact of the matter is this - they shouldn't fire him because unless Bill wants to bail on the Pats and come coach in Pittsburgh, they won't get a better coach than Tomlin to fill the void.
Now THAT I disagree with. If you're talking coaches in the league right now, I'd take Sean Payton, Bruce Arians (yes, I know he retired), John Harbaugh, Mike McCarthy, and Pete Carroll over Tomlin.
Tomlin is second (to Bill) in winning percentage among active coaches. To me, winning is the only real measure of a coach. Right?
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Well, you have to look at the other variables. Context matters. I would submit that many coaches could have the same winning percentage the last 11 years in Pittsburgh if they had inherited a Super Bowl team with an All-World defense and Hall of Fame QB.
Tomlin has a better winning percentage than Cowher had, but does anyone think Tomlin is doing a better job than Cowher did?
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Well, you have to look at the other variables. Context matters. I would submit that many coaches could have the same winning percentage the last 11 years in Pittsburgh if they had inherited a Super Bowl team with an All-World defense and Hall of Fame QB.
There's no way for us to actually know that though. That's total speculation.
Tomlin has a better winning percentage than Cowher had, but does anyone think Tomlin is doing a better job than Cowher did?
I thought we were talking active coaches?
To me, winning is what I would look at in judging a coaches performance. With Tomlin's win percentage it's a tough argument to make to fire the guy.
Also - there's a zero percent chance the Steelers are going to do that anyway, it's not at all how they roll.
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Tomlin also had a HOF QB throughout his tenure as the HC. Cower did not always have that top notch QB in his tenure.
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Well, you have to look at the other variables. Context matters.
What you say, Stat Boy??
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Well, you have to look at the other variables. Context matters.
What you say, Stat Boy??
:lol For real.
Also - Brady hurt?!?
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Todd Haley gone! YESSSSSSSS
Too bad Tomlin couldn’t go with him. New OC will likely be their QB coach.
To no surprise, I back this decision 100%.
Tomlin has HUGE gaps as a coach, but the fact of the matter is this - they shouldn't fire him because unless Bill wants to bail on the Pats and come coach in Pittsburgh, they won't get a better coach than Tomlin to fill the void.
Now THAT I disagree with. If you're talking coaches in the league right now, I'd take Sean Payton, Bruce Arians (yes, I know he retired), John Harbaugh, Mike McCarthy, and Pete Carroll over Tomlin.
Tomlin is second (to Bill) in winning percentage among active coaches. To me, winning is the only real measure of a coach. Right?
Well, I think it is, but it's not a static, absolute measure. If you have a .600 winning percentage, but perhaps you should have had a .700 winning percentage, you suck (Andy Reid). If you have a .600 winning percentage, but you should have had a .500 winning percentage, you're a Hall of Famer (Don Shula).
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Tomlin also had a HOF QB throughout his tenure as the HC. Cower did not always have that top notch QB in his tenure.
Let's see...
Neal O'Donnell
Mike Tomczak
Kordell Stewart
Tommy Maddox
Ben Roethlisberger (who QB'd his only Super Bowl win)
Yeah, I'd say Tomlin has a lot to answer for.
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Well, you have to look at the other variables. Context matters. I would submit that many coaches could have the same winning percentage the last 11 years in Pittsburgh if they had inherited a Super Bowl team with an All-World defense and Hall of Fame QB.
There's no way for us to actually know that though. That's total speculation.
You mean no one's come up with a "WAR" stat for football coaches???
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All this talk about Tomlin, BUT what the hell is so great about Sean Payton? I say he is overrated. He's had a HOF QB.
According to Pro Football Reference, since Payton and Brees have been together (the 2006 season), not counting the 2012 season when Payton was suspended:
Payton has only made the playoffs in 6 out of 11 seasons and has a 105-75 which averages out to a 9 (9.5) - 7 (6.8) season average.
Is it me or is that very average? In fact, taking the QB in account, I'd actually say it's pretty poor.
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Okay, I've lived in Jacksonville my whole life. I've been a Jags fan since '95. That being said, I find it SUPER FUCKING STRANGE to see people post things like "I'm rooting for the Jags this weekend," or "It would be cool to see the Jags make the Super Bowl, they're really exciting." I know first hand how they've been THE laughing stock of the league, while other teams put up winless seasons! I can't say I really had any expectations of this, how could I? It's one thing to hope, that's natural as a fan. I haven't been as EMOTIONALLY INVESTED in a Jags game the way I was on Sunday in a VERY VERY LONG time. But then again, I think it's impossible to watch that defense operate without catching their infectious energy. Win or lose, it's nice to finally see that they actually CARE whether they win or lose.
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When you hear people say "I'm rooting for the Jags this weekend" what they are really saying is "FUCK THE PATRIOTS."
The Jags aren't the laughing stock of the league like the Browns, or the 'Aints from years ago. The Jags are just sort of this team that people forget exist. I consider myself a moderate NFL fan and I couldn't tell you what division they are in.
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When you hear people say "I'm rooting for the Jags this weekend" what they are really saying is "FUCK THE PATRIOTS."
Pretty much this. I would argue that most people outside of the New England are sick of seeing the Patriots win. Seeing a team that wasn’t expected to be a contender this season make a run like this is exciting (like the ‘07 Giants, ‘08 Cardinals, and ‘09 Jets). Watching the same teams always win gets boring. A changing of the guard is needed to keep the sport exciting.
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Well, you have to look at the other variables. Context matters.
What you say, Stat Boy??
:lol :lol
(https://sportsherniablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/6a00d83451b84f69e2013488505783970c-800wi.png)
Tomlin has a better winning percentage than Cowher had, but does anyone think Tomlin is doing a better job than Cowher did?
I thought we were talking active coaches?
To me, winning is what I would look at in judging a coaches performance. With Tomlin's win percentage it's a tough argument to make to fire the guy.
While I agree with the latter (I would not fire Tomlin), regarding the former, I do not think it is as simple as "Coach A is better than Coach B because he has a better record."
All this talk about Tomlin, BUT what the hell is so great about Sean Payton? I say he is overrated. He's had a HOF QB.
According to Pro Football Reference, since Payton and Brees have been together (the 2006 season), not counting the 2012 season when Payton was suspended:
Payton has only made the playoffs in 6 out of 11 seasons and has a 105-75 which averages out to a 9 (9.5) - 7 (6.8) season average.
Is it me or is that very average? In fact, taking the QB in account, I'd actually say it's pretty poor.
Payton is an outstanding offensive coordinator, but not a great head coach. How do you have Drew Brees all those years and miss the playoffs that many times?
When you hear people say "I'm rooting for the Jags this weekend" what they are really saying is "FUCK THE PATRIOTS."
Pretty much this. I would argue that most people outside of the New England are sick of seeing the Patriots win. Seeing a team that wasn’t expected to be a contender this season make a run like this is exciting (like the ‘07 Giants, ‘08 Cardinals, and ‘09 Jets). Watching the same teams always win gets boring. A changing of the guard is needed to keep the sport exciting.
Assuming NE wins this weekend, I expect the Super Bowl ratings to drop off quite a bit. There is already a backlash thanks to the kneeling controversy and the product turning some away, and if the Super Bowl is Patriots (a team most are tired of) vs NFC Team with no easily identifiable star, that is a disaster for the NFL. Sure, a crap ton of people are still going to watch, but probably not as many as in years past.
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When you hear people say "I'm rooting for the Jags this weekend" what they are really saying is "FUCK THE PATRIOTS."
The Jags aren't the laughing stock of the league like the Browns, or the 'Aints from years ago. The Jags are just sort of this team that people forget exist. I consider myself a moderate NFL fan and I couldn't tell you what division they are in.
BOOM. That's me exactly.
As for me, I don't think the Jags win on Sunday. They're falling into the noob trap. They're running their gums, and now the Patriots threw that "ohh, Tommy HURT!" chum into the water...
My big dilemma is who I want in the NFC. I REALLY don't want the Eagles in, but if they get in with Foles, that's at least better than fueling the "Carson Wentz is ELITE!" nonsense, and I like the Vikings, but I think they are overrated and I don't want a home team playing for the champeenship. I may flip a coin.
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Well, I think it is, but it's not a static, absolute measure. If you have a .600 winning percentage, but perhaps you should have had a .700 winning percentage, you suck (Andy Reid). If you have a .600 winning percentage, but you should have had a .500 winning percentage, you're a Hall of Famer (Don Shula).
But how do you determine what a coach “should have”? All you can really go off of is what he does have.
While I agree with the latter (I would not fire Tomlin), regarding the former, I do not think it is as simple as "Coach A is better than Coach B because he has a better record."
Of course it’s not that simple, but I’d argue winning is the majority of what makes a coach great or not. What else is the goal of a NFL coach? Sure coach A might have a better group of players than coach B, but how good is coach B if he can’t make the most of those players and win dispute that?
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I like the Vikings, but I think they are overrated and I don't want a home team playing for the champeenship.
Interesting, I may be out of touch with the fanbase here in Minnesota, but I think most of us view us as being underrated and a forgotten team. We've built the team to this point and it's not like the past few seasons have all been a huge success, in fact we don't usually go very far. That's the first time I've seen someone say the Vikes are overrated. I've always thought we've had a special group, but maybe that's my Minnesota lenses fogging my view
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I like the Vikings, but I think they are overrated and I don't want a home team playing for the champeenship.
Interesting, I may be out of touch with the fanbase here in Minnesota, but I think most of us view us as being underrated and a forgotten team. We've built the team to this point and it's not like the past few seasons have all been a huge success, in fact we don't usually go very far. That's the first time I've seen someone say the Vikes are overrated. I've always thought we've had a special group, but maybe that's my Minnesota lenses fogging my view
It's en vogue to view yourself as an "underdog" these days. You can't "Shock the World!" and talk about the "adversity" you've overcome if you're the clear favorite. I think there are four coaches still in the playoffs that will sell to their teams that they are "underdogs".
I think we're talking about being in the "Championship Game", and I don't believe the Vikes belong there. I think NO and Atlanta are both, on paper, better teams. Though, let's be honest, I'd be the absolute first to say "the game was played, they won, that's who deserves to be there", so I get it. I really do. And if you're FROM Minneapolis, you ought to be very proud of your team. They didn't give up.
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Just thought of something interesting: if the Jaguars pull off the upset of the century, we’ll be guaranteed a first time Super Bowl champion.
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Also - Brady hurt?!?
No Prob!! Bring out Jimmy G......oh wait.....
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I like the Vikings, but I think they are overrated and I don't want a home team playing for the champeenship.
Interesting, I may be out of touch with the fanbase here in Minnesota, but I think most of us view us as being underrated and a forgotten team. We've built the team to this point and it's not like the past few seasons have all been a huge success, in fact we don't usually go very far. That's the first time I've seen someone say the Vikes are overrated. I've always thought we've had a special group, but maybe that's my Minnesota lenses fogging my view
It's en vogue to view yourself as an "underdog" these days. You can't "Shock the World!" and talk about the "adversity" you've overcome if you're the clear favorite. I think there are four coaches still in the playoffs that will sell to their teams that they are "underdogs".
I think we're talking about being in the "Championship Game", and I don't believe the Vikes belong there. I think NO and Atlanta are both, on paper, better teams. Though, let's be honest, I'd be the absolute first to say "the game was played, they won, that's who deserves to be there", so I get it. I really do. And if you're FROM Minneapolis, you ought to be very proud of your team. They didn't give up.
A large chunk of sports talking head types I saw had the Vikings as the favorites to come out of the NFC. It's hard to say they were an underdog. Maybe back early in the season when Bradford went down, but not by the end. If anyone can make that claim in the NFC it's the Eagles. No one believed in them given their QB situation.
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I'm rooting for Pats/Vikings and am actively rooting against Jags/Eagles. If it ends up being Jags/Eagles in the SB, I don't know who I will root for or if I will watch.
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Also - Brady hurt?!?
No Prob!! Bring out Jimmy G......oh wait.....
:lol
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As a neutral from the other side of the Pond, I would quite happily watch any combination of these teams in the Super Bowl. Although I would really love to see the host team curse killed off by the Vikings. It would be cool to have two "curses" broken in consecutive years (last year being the first Bowl to go to overtime).
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When you hear people say "I'm rooting for the Jags this weekend" what they are really saying is "FUCK THE PATRIOTS."
The Jags aren't the laughing stock of the league like the Browns, or the 'Aints from years ago. The Jags are just sort of this team that people forget exist. I consider myself a moderate NFL fan and I couldn't tell you what division they are in.
BOOM. That's me exactly.
As for me, I don't think the Jags win on Sunday. They're falling into the noob trap. They're running their gums, and now the Patriots threw that "ohh, Tommy HURT!" chum into the water...
My big dilemma is who I want in the NFC. I REALLY don't want the Eagles in, but if they get in with Foles, that's at least better than fueling the "Carson Wentz is ELITE!" nonsense, and I like the Vikings, but I think they are overrated and I don't want a home team playing for the champeenship. I may flip a coin.
Aw man Statler, I agree with you 95% of the time but I have to disagree with you here. Wentz may not be elite yet, but he will be. If Wentz was still playing they'd be my clear cut favorite to not only win the NFC but also the Super Bowl. He will be a top 3 QB in the NFL next year.
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Question for serious NFL fans, what was the last Super Bowl you didn't actively watch or have interest in? I'd say SB XLIV (Saints Colts). I was hosting a gathering, which I have done for the past 10 or so years, excepting a couple. But I can't honestly say I recall watching much of the game. Watching while hosting can be tough, but aside from that one I make an effort to watch as much of the game as I can.
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When you hear people say "I'm rooting for the Jags this weekend" what they are really saying is "FUCK THE PATRIOTS."
The Jags aren't the laughing stock of the league like the Browns, or the 'Aints from years ago. The Jags are just sort of this team that people forget exist. I consider myself a moderate NFL fan and I couldn't tell you what division they are in.
BOOM. That's me exactly.
As for me, I don't think the Jags win on Sunday. They're falling into the noob trap. They're running their gums, and now the Patriots threw that "ohh, Tommy HURT!" chum into the water...
My big dilemma is who I want in the NFC. I REALLY don't want the Eagles in, but if they get in with Foles, that's at least better than fueling the "Carson Wentz is ELITE!" nonsense, and I like the Vikings, but I think they are overrated and I don't want a home team playing for the champeenship. I may flip a coin.
Aw man Statler, I agree with you 95% of the time but I have to disagree with you here. Wentz may not be elite yet, but he will be. If Wentz was still playing they'd be my clear cut favorite to not only win the NFC but also the Super Bowl. He will be a top 3 QB in the NFL next year.
I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just want him to BECOME elite before we CALL him elite. He's not there yet. He's Andrew Luck right now. Or Cam Newton. Or Dak Prescott. Hell, he's FOLES, if you think back. There are a ton of QBs that come out with all the promise in the world, and show glimpses of greatness, but just can't get over the hump. Let's let him get over the hump before we give him the prize. That's all.
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I didn't pay much attention during the Broncos-Seahawks game.
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That's a tough one. Even when I don't have what I would describe as an active interest, we almost always have a social get-together that centers around the game, and I will develop an active rooting interest leading up to the game just because. For the one you mentioned, I was a pretty active Peyton fan, so I was rooting HARD for the Colts.
Last one, I was rooting for the Pats because history and because they finally kind of won me over after all this time.
50, I was rooting for Broncos because I like the team and because Peyton.
49, I was rooting against the Seahawks because Seahawks.
48, I was rooting for Broncos because Broncos/Peyton. Also, I was rooting against the Seahawks because Seahawks.
47, I was rooting for 49ers because they are my team.
46, I was rooting for Giants because...well, I was rooting more against Pats. But that matchup just frustrated me to no end because I didn't want to root for either team.
45, I was rooting for Packers because I love the Packers and didn't hate Rodgers that much.
44, see above.
43, I was rooting for Cards because...I dunno. Cool for them to win one, I guess? And Larry Fitzgerald is a standup guy who I felt deserved a ring.
42, see 46.
41, I was rooting for Peyton. But I honestly don't remember watching this one and may not have. So I guess there's the answer. And the stretch before this wasn't very exciting for me either and gets a lot of "who cares?" when I look back at the matchups.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just want him to BECOME elite before we CALL him elite. He's not there yet. He's Andrew Luck right now. Or Cam Newton. Or Dak Prescott. Hell, he's FOLES, if you think back. There are a ton of QBs that come out with all the promise in the world, and show glimpses of greatness, but just can't get over the hump. Let's let him get over the hump before we give him the prize. That's all.
Agree. Let's see where he's at in Five seasons.....then we can start the comparisons and what not. Right now, he just had a really good season that he didn't even finish due to injury. Was that his fault? Maybe not but the greats (Elway, Aikman, Montana, Marino) were rarely if ever hurt or missed games and they played in a tougher league.
and this could be applied to many different aspects in our culture today. Quick to proclaim 'greatness' after only a short stint of success. You have to earn it IMO and (1) good season or quarter of sales or lightning in a bottle idea or one hit song etc etc doesn't qualify
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I could not agree more. Even a handful of great seasons doesn't make one "elite." It takes sustained success. Let's cool the jets and see. He certainly appears to have the potential, and I'm not trying to take ANYTHING away from him. But we just aren't there yet.
And top 3 next year? Hmm...not so sure. Possible, but we have a few QBs that may have something to say about that before next year is over. Again, let's wait and see. We have a lot of really solid candidates likely to finish up near the top that have already been there (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Ben, Rivers), and some other strong up-and-comers as well. We'll see.
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43, I was rooting for Cards because...I dunno. Cool for them to win one, I guess? And Larry Fitzgerald is a standup guy who I felt deserved a ring.
....and Kurt Warner leading (2) teams to SB wins. If it weren't for Anquon Bolden running the incorrect route on the goal line when they were about to score before halftime.....Cards go up 14-10 at half rather than trail 17-7. It's a different game after that. I implore you all to re-watch that interception play and watch his clearly horrible route....was supposed to be an inside slant....Warner threw it as an inside slant.....Boldin broke the route and the rest is history.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just want him to BECOME elite before we CALL him elite. He's not there yet. He's Andrew Luck right now. Or Cam Newton. Or Dak Prescott. Hell, he's FOLES, if you think back. There are a ton of QBs that come out with all the promise in the world, and show glimpses of greatness, but just can't get over the hump. Let's let him get over the hump before we give him the prize. That's all.
I totally agree Stads. We've discussed this before, I think people are FAR too quick to call QBs elite prior to a QB winning anything.
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The Seahawks over the Broncos was a horrible game in many way to watch, and I say that living in the area. But it was just me and my wife at home for that game. And I hadnt seen a local champion in a major sport (I was 3 when the Sonics won in 1979) and at this rate it might be a long time before I see another.
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43, I was rooting for Cards because...I dunno. Cool for them to win one, I guess? And Larry Fitzgerald is a standup guy who I felt deserved a ring.
....and Kurt Warner leading (2) teams to SB wins.
Oh yeah, I had forgotten about that. But, yeah, you're right. I was pulling for the guy--despite the fact that it was two NFC West teams that are not the 49ers.
The Seahawks over the Broncos was a horrible game in many way to watch, and I say that living in the area.
It really was. The safety just made me angry. And not just as a Peyton fan or as someone rooting against the Seahawks. But just because, with the Seahawks D, you just knew it wouldn't even be close to being a game after that.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just want him to BECOME elite before we CALL him elite. He's not there yet. He's Andrew Luck right now. Or Cam Newton. Or Dak Prescott. Hell, he's FOLES, if you think back. There are a ton of QBs that come out with all the promise in the world, and show glimpses of greatness, but just can't get over the hump. Let's let him get over the hump before we give him the prize. That's all.
I totally agree Stads. We've discussed this before, I think people are FAR too quick to call QBs elite prior to a QB winning anything.
I agree, but for a second year starter, Wentz was pretty awesome this year. Had he not gotten hurt, he likely would have been the first QB since 1999 to win the MVP award in one of his first two years in the NFL.
Having said that, the play where Wentz got hurt was not a smart play. As a QB, you can't recklessly dive like that into the end zone. I suspect he has figured that out already and won't be so careless again.
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Question for serious NFL fans, what was the last Super Bowl you didn't actively watch or have interest in? I'd say SB XLIV (Saints Colts). I was hosting a gathering, which I have done for the past 10 or so years, excepting a couple. But I can't honestly say I recall watching much of the game. Watching while hosting can be tough, but aside from that one I make an effort to watch as much of the game as I can.
I've watched almost all the SB's for the last 20 years or so. Even if it's two teams I don't care about they've usually been pretty good games. The only exceptions are if I go to a SB party, where the game is generally just background noise. If it's the Patriots I usually skip parties for that reason. Turned down an invite to [former punter] Mike Saxon's party last year, figuring the game would be one I'd really want to pay attention to. I was clearly right.
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Our parties are all sports fans, so even if the game is a dog, everyone is pretty dialed in. Now that we all have kids though, someone is always on kid duty. Last year right before the Pats scored in OT, my daughter's friend spun my kid too fast in my office chair, and she flew off and ended up in tears. I asked if she could hold tight because Pats were at the goal line.
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Question for serious NFL fans, what was the last Super Bowl you didn't actively watch or have interest in? I'd say SB XLIV (Saints Colts). I was hosting a gathering, which I have done for the past 10 or so years, excepting a couple. But I can't honestly say I recall watching much of the game. Watching while hosting can be tough, but aside from that one I make an effort to watch as much of the game as I can.
I think that I've watched every super bowl since I was a very young child. The most likely reason that I'm a Steelers fan is that they were probably the first team to make an impression on me. I was born in June of '73, and by the time that I was becoming reasonable aware of things they were the team to beat.
The first super bowl that I can recall watching all these years later was the Eagles vs Raiders. That was the 1980 season, but I'm certain that I was watching them well before then. I've watched them every year whether the game was good or bad.
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I think the last Super Bowl I didn't really watch was Giants/Bills following the 1990 season. I caught the very end, but that was it. I don't think I have really missed one since.
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The last one Super Bowl I didn’t watch was Super Bowl XXXIX.
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I watched the first quarter of SB43 (Steelers v Cardinals), then I've watched every one live and in full since then. Which means at least one night a year of staying up until 3:30am.
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I first started watching football during the 2005 season, have watched every super bowl from then on.
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So is this Brady hand injury a legit problem or is his being held from practice an abundance of caution? Gotta be some scuttlebutt around up in the NE area about this.
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I missed most of the Giants Patriots SB rematch because I was living in France at the time and it didn't feel worth staying up for since I had class the next morning. For some reason I just wasn't that interested in that one, I had a gut feeling the Giants were going to win. They got red hot at the right time, similar to the 2012 Ravens. I'm well aware that I did miss a great game and I did go back and watch the whole thing. :lol
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So is this Brady hand injury a legit problem or is his being held from practice an abundance of caution? Gotta be some scuttlebutt around up in the NE area about this.
Fort Knox with the info out of Gillette. It was injured but how bad? We don't know.
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Wouldn't surprise me if this is a plan by Billy to get in the minds of the Jags coaches to alter their game plan. Or it could be legit. This is just an example of the genius that is Bill Belichick. He's created a culture that people have no idea if an injury is legit or not.
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The first super bowl that I can recall watching all these years later was the Eagles vs Raiders. That was the 1980 season, but I'm certain that I was watching them well before then. I've watched them every year whether the game was good or bad.
That was mine as well.
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So is this Brady hand injury a legit problem or is his being held from practice an abundance of caution? Gotta be some scuttlebutt around up in the NE area about this.
Fort Knox with the info out of Gillette. It was injured but how bad? We don't know.
I'll check the lines in Vegas, they usually have pretty good intel.
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Wouldn't surprise me if this is a plan by Billy to get in the minds of the Jags coaches to alter their game plan. Or it could be legit. This is just an example of the genius that is Bill Belichick. He's created a culture that people have no idea if an injury is legit or not.
It's partly that, but it's also - in my opinion - partly to change the dialogue from New England. I feel like the Jags are playing right into the Trap Of DoomTM regarding Champeenship games, wherein the Jags are all full of piss and vinegar and talking smack - and feeding the Patriot beast - and this is sort of Bill's way of minimizing the opportunities for a Patriot to say something to enflame the Jags.
This is really a text book example of the maturity and discipline of New England, and the sort of "WOW, we're at DIZKNEELAND!" immaturity of Jacksonville. Bill famously said - just this last week - that "playoff experience doesn't matter", but he knows better, and this is a prime example. Yeah, these guys are professionals and they have to focus, but every little bit helps, and if Fournette is even for one second thinking about his car, or the Steelers fan that hit him, or yapping about something else, it might be the difference between five yards and that first down, or three yards, a stop and Patriots ball at the 36 yard line. Just sayin'.
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Wouldn't surprise me if this is a plan by Billy to get in the minds of the Jags coaches to alter their game plan. Or it could be legit. This is just an example of the genius that is Bill Belichick. He's created a culture that people have no idea if an injury is legit or not.
It's partly that, but it's also - in my opinion - partly to change the dialogue from New England. I feel like the Jags are playing right into the Trap Of DoomTM regarding Champeenship games, wherein the Jags are all full of piss and vinegar and talking smack - and feeding the Patriot beast - and this is sort of Bill's way of minimizing the opportunities for a Patriot to say something to enflame the Jags.
This is really a text book example of the maturity and discipline of New England, and the sort of "WOW, we're at DIZKNEELAND!" immaturity of Jacksonville. Bill famously said - just this last week - that "playoff experience doesn't matter", but he knows better, and this is a prime example. Yeah, these guys are professionals and they have to focus, but every little bit helps, and if Fournette is even for one second thinking about his car, or the Steelers fan that hit him, or yapping about something else, it might be the difference between five yards and that first down, or three yards, a stop and Patriots ball at the 36 yard line. Just sayin'.
There's a reason Neon Deion loves the Jags Defense. Just like you wouldn't go back and tell Neon to shut up and focus on his craft, you have to understand that the Jags D operates that way because it works for them. Go listen to clips of Jalen Ramsey, and you'll find plenty BEFORE talking about going to the Super Bowl 5 days ago. Of course, if you're gonna talk, you have to back it up. I have no idea who's gonna win, but to imply that the Jags are too immature to understand their position is at the very least insulting to a group of PROFESSIONALS that have not been living under a rock for the last 15 years. They know who they're playing...
And on that note, Doug Marrone's response to Brady's potential injury: "If he doesn't throw with his right, he'll throw with his left." Boy, I sure hope he doesn't fall for the ridiculously transparent, childish idea of over exaggerating they super star's injury :mehlin.
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Wouldn't surprise me if this is a plan by Billy to get in the minds of the Jags coaches to alter their game plan. Or it could be legit. This is just an example of the genius that is Bill Belichick. He's created a culture that people have no idea if an injury is legit or not.
It's partly that, but it's also - in my opinion - partly to change the dialogue from New England. I feel like the Jags are playing right into the Trap Of DoomTM regarding Champeenship games, wherein the Jags are all full of piss and vinegar and talking smack - and feeding the Patriot beast - and this is sort of Bill's way of minimizing the opportunities for a Patriot to say something to enflame the Jags.
This is really a text book example of the maturity and discipline of New England, and the sort of "WOW, we're at DIZKNEELAND!" immaturity of Jacksonville. Bill famously said - just this last week - that "playoff experience doesn't matter", but he knows better, and this is a prime example. Yeah, these guys are professionals and they have to focus, but every little bit helps, and if Fournette is even for one second thinking about his car, or the Steelers fan that hit him, or yapping about something else, it might be the difference between five yards and that first down, or three yards, a stop and Patriots ball at the 36 yard line. Just sayin'.
There's a reason Neon Deion loves the Jags Defense. Just like you wouldn't go back and tell Neon to shut up and focus on his craft, you have to understand that the Jags D operates that way because it works for them. Go listen to clips of Jalen Ramsey, and you'll find plenty BEFORE talking about going to the Super Bowl 5 days ago. Of course, if you're gonna talk, you have to back it up. I have no idea who's gonna win, but to imply that the Jags are too immature to understand their position is at the very least insulting to a group of PROFESSIONALS that have not been living under a rock for the last 15 years. They know who they're playing...
And on that note, Doug Marrone's response to Brady's potential injury: "If he doesn't throw with his right, he'll throw with his left." Boy, I sure hope he doesn't fall for the ridiculously transparent, childish idea of over exaggerating they super star's injury :mehlin.
I don't generally disagree with your point about "Professionals", but I think when you get to the playoffs, the game changes. There's a different mindset in "sudden death" than there is in the long grind of a season. And when that "sudden death" comes down to one play, or one series, why would you give the other team any chance to claim an advantage? We talk about "underdogs" a lot here, and I think generally the idea of "underdog" is way overrated, but when you have a team like the Pats, that is all about discipline and "doing your job" (there is no "Lawrence Taylor" on the 2017-2018 Patriots), there's going to be a play - at some point in that game, I promise you - where it's going to come down to "Jalen Ramsey vs. Rob Gronkowski". Do you REALLY want to plant that seed in Gronk's head? Why would you take the chance?
I think back to that time that Odell Beckham, Jr. went on that cruise before the big game, and his excuse was "it helped me unwind", but he also failed to show up the next day. It BOGGLES MY MIND why he would even take that chance. You can't find ONE WAY of "unwinding" that doesn't send the message to your team that you don't give a shit, and sends a message to the other team that you regard them so lowly that you're going to tan with bitches before the game instead of working on fundamentals? We have NO IDEA whether it had any impact, but why gamble?
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Pats -9 moved to Pats -7.5. Maybe not too much to see here. I'll take an 80% Brady for the win.
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Pats -9 moved to Pats -7.5. Maybe not too much to see here. I'll take an 80% Brady for the win.
Curious what it'd look like if Hoyer were the starter. The odds of NE winning would certainly take a hit, but I'd probably still bet on them. Bill, JMD, and Patricia always find a way to be compete effectively.
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"Jalen Ramsey vs. Rob Gronkowski". Do you REALLY want to plant that seed in Gronk's head? Why would you take the chance?
I think back to that time that Odell Beckham, Jr. went on that cruise before the big game, and his excuse was "it helped me unwind", but he also failed to show up the next day. It BOGGLES MY MIND why he would even take that chance. You can't find ONE WAY of "unwinding" that doesn't send the message to your team that you don't give a shit, and sends a message to the other team that you regard them so lowly that you're going to tan with bitches before the game instead of working on fundamentals? We have NO IDEA whether it had any impact, but why gamble?
I won't be surprised if that matchup is pivotal at some point. But if and when that happens, I can tell you that Ramsey will be supremely confident in his abilities, at least enough to perhaps counteract any "advantage" Gronk might have in the bulletin board motivation. What goes hand in hand with the EGO of an athlete like Ramsey is the passionate hatred of losing. His swagger is not hollow.
As for OBJ, was that a departure from his normal routine, or was that his normal way of preparing? Like I said, take a listen to Ramsey throughout the season. You won't find that this is a new thing. As far as falling for traps... ask AJ Green what it's like to be a seasoned vet standing across from Ramsey. Some players are more disciplined than others, and I expect the Pat's to be of the highest order. But they play the games for a reason, and I'm super excited to see how this one plays out.
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Well, you have no argument from me about "that's why they play the games". No doubt.
But I stand by my statement.
The Pats have been in the Championship Game each of the last seven years. Odell Beckham, Jr. appeared in one Championship game in college, and lost, and has been in the playoffs only once in his NFL career, and lost badly. I get it, it's a team game, and everyone has their role, but honestly, as a teammate, I want to know that my guys have their head in the game and aren't leaving ANYTHING to chance.
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So is this Brady hand injury a legit problem or is his being held from practice an abundance of caution? Gotta be some scuttlebutt around up in the NE area about this.
Fort Knox with the info out of Gillette. It was injured but how bad? We don't know.
I'll check the lines in Vegas, they usually have pretty good intel.
If for some reason Tom can't go, that makes a disappointing Steelers loss to the Jags even more disappointing.
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Question for serious NFL fans, what was the last Super Bowl you didn't actively watch or have interest in? I'd say SB XLIV (Saints Colts). I was hosting a gathering, which I have done for the past 10 or so years, excepting a couple. But I can't honestly say I recall watching much of the game. Watching while hosting can be tough, but aside from that one I make an effort to watch as much of the game as I can.
In all honesty, the last one I didn't "actively watch" probably was Super Bowl 11, which was played when I was 9 and not yet a football fan. I became a fan the following year. I don't recall what the impetus was, but I started buying (and sometimes stealing) football cards, and I fell in love with the original Orange Crush defense of the Denver Broncos. The Broncos made it to Super Bowl 12 and got crushed (it wasn't as close as the 27-10 score might indicate). I typically rooted for the AFC, which was tough since the NFC won 15 of the next 19. I was elated when my Broncos finally broke that dominance in SB32 (I still have that game recorded on a VHS tape). I remember everyone talking about how the Packers would destroy the Broncos and being so happy when the Broncos proved them wrong. I think I wasn't hugely interested in Super Bowl 40 (PIT over SEA), but I know I actively watched. I probably didn't watch the second half of Super Bowl 48 very closely. In terms of actively watching, I guess it doesn't hurt that my team or my wife's team (Patriots) has represented the AFC in 11 of the past 20 Super Bowls.
I still want to know if LIV Tyler will be involved in some way in Super Bowl 54.
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I remember watching Fred Biletnikoff in the Super Bowl XI and thinking, "there's no one on the planet cooler than him." I hadn't quite gotten into Kiss yet. :)
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I think the Jags have the defense to keep the game close. The key player in this game will be Bortles. If he stays mistake free and plays like he did in the 4th quarter of the Steelers game then the Jags have great shot at winning.
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I think the Jags have the defense to keep the game close. The key player in this game will be Bortles. If he stays mistake free and plays like he did in the 4th quarter of the Steelers game then the Jags have great shot at winning.
That's an analysis that gives me hope, because if there's one thing to say about Patricia's defense, is that they exploit your mistakes. You can be doing wonderfully, moving your team 78 yards down the field, and you miss a check down on the 2, and next thing, it's Patriots ball.
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I remember watching Fred Biletnikoff in the Super Bowl XI and thinking, "there's no one on the planet cooler than him." I hadn't quite gotten into Kiss yet. :)
I'm assuming that you've watched every superbowl since you're 20 generations old...
Just Kidding!!! ;D
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I remember watching Fred Biletnikoff in the Super Bowl XI and thinking, "there's no one on the planet cooler than him."
I'll tell you who was cooler...Dave Casper! I was a young Raider fan.
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Are you concerned bout Tom's hand?
I don't know. We'll see.
Could Brady be a game-time decision?
Today is Friday.
:rollin
And then he goes on to talk ad nauseum about the intricacies of Jacksonville's over/under defensive front, and how great a player Patrick Chung is, while providing absolutely no insight into his own take on these things or how they might come into play. Dude really is one disciplined individual. Most people who like to talk have an incredibly hard time compartmentalizing their words.
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And he says it so droll. :lol
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He is the worst and the best at press conferences, depending how you view it.
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I remember watching Fred Biletnikoff in the Super Bowl XI and thinking, "there's no one on the planet cooler than him." I hadn't quite gotten into Kiss yet. :)
All this talk about mid-70s Raider players reminded me of the old NFL Films highlight shows that used to run on Saturday afternoons. With that great NFL Films music and John Facenda's narration, there was no way NOT to get into the sport!
Speaking of Biletnikoff, how the hell does a guy win MVP with only 4 catches for 79 yards and no TDs?! I'd be willing to bet that if 10 different people who didn't know how the MVP voting turned out watched that game and were asked to name an MVP, Biletnikoff wouldn't get more than 2 votes. Dave Casper had the same number of catches for only 9 fewer yards and a touchdown, and Clarence Davis had 137 yards on 16 carries.
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Anyone else ever read this?
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1Kqgw6NefL.jpg)
It's like a book length Penthouse Forum. :lol
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Today presents the greatest challenge of Bill Belichick's coaching life: figuring out a way to slow down Blake Bortles.
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:lol
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Based on nothing other than personal preference, I'm going with a Jaguars V. Iggles superbowl.
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Figures, he drops the easy pick because it’s NE and not Pit :facepalm:
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Pats WTF?? :facepalm:
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Eh...I see them coming back in the 2nd, like always. And Jags fucking up.
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Kudos to the Jags. Man they are balling on both sides of the ball.
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Looks like the refs just realized the Pats we’re losing
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Looks like the refs just realized the Pats we’re losing
My thoughts exactly
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Looks like the refs just realized the Pats we’re losing
Eh.... those were both legit penalties. Sucks to be a tackler in this era, because it's impossible to know exactly where someone's head is going to be in a fraction of a second. By no means do I think it was an intentional head-to-head, yet they get 15 yards out of it. That PI... wtf was the corner thinking?!?!? No need to do that.
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The helmet to helmet was an easy call.
Cooks was pushing just as much on the PI.
The big one to me was the delay call that negated the Jags first down on the prior drive. I see that all the time where the ball is hiked like a millisecond after it hits 0 and the officials always let it go...but not when it is the visiting team playing in NE.
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Looks like the refs just realized the Pats we’re losing
Eh.... those were both legit penalties. Sucks to be a tackler in this era, because it's impossible to know exactly where someone's head is going to be in a fraction of a second. By no means do I think it was an intentional head-to-head, yet they get 15 yards out of it. That PI... wtf was the corner thinking?!?!? No need to do that.
Yeah, but like I said last week the refs swallowed their flags when the Jax DBs were mugging Brown up and down the field.
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The Patriots better thank the refs for gifting them that touchdown.
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Guys you can't pig a guy out of bounds. That's an easy call.
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The Patriots better thank the refs for gifting them that touchdown.
I heard they all get an "attaboys" from Kraft after every Patriots home win.
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The helmet to helmet was an easy call.
Cooks was pushing just as much on the PI.
The big one to me was the delay call that negated the Jags first down on the prior drive. I see that all the time where the ball is hiked like a millisecond after it hits 0 and the officials always let it go...but not when it is the visiting team playing in NE.
The hit on Gronk was borderline. If they call that both ways it’s fine. But penalizing The Jags out of field goal range, the delay of Game was BS and even that holding Call could have been overlooked then calling that pass interference when the ball wasn’t even close was par for the course when it comes to favorable homefield calls.
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(https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27066961_1661756037251383_7820665052018758268_n.jpg?oh=16b401d087e4489524f642e99a40653b&oe=5AFAA097)
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That was a clutch kick.
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Yes it was. Jesus guys. The refs are in your heads. Not even the Pats! :lol
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Yes it was. Jesus guys. The refs are in your heads. Not even the Pats! :lol
The delay of game was BS. When the clock runs down, you typically see the stripes running in from all over the place blowing it dead pronto so no one needlessly gets hurt. I didn't hear a single whistle until it was clear the Jags had the first down.
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Yes it was. Jesus guys. The refs are in your heads. Not even the Pats! :lol
The delay of game was BS. When the clock runs down, you typically see the stripes running in from all over the place blowing it dead pronto so no one needlessly gets hurt. I didn't hear a single whistle until it was clear the Jags had the first down.
Exactly. And it wasn't even blown dead until after the Jags had the 1st down.
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Yes but it isn't a conspiracy. It's just s bad call by the refs. I'm tired of the crying.
I can say the Jags are killing it. The are aggressive on both sides and physical. So stop crying folks. It's ok to hate the Pats but Jesus it's out of control.
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And many are tired of the Patriots always getting critical, questionable calls go their way. This is like watching the NBA, where you just know the team with the biggest superstar is going to get all of the calls.
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Bad calls happen all the time for all teams. You guys are seeing every little thing because you don't want he Pats to win. I get it but you're seeing things . Bad calls always happen.
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Yes but it isn't a conspiracy. It's just s bad call by the refs. I'm tired of the crying.
I can say the Jags are killing it. The are aggressive on both sides and physical. So stop crying folks. It's ok to hate the Pats but Jesus it's out of control.
Joe... you've got homer-colored glasses on I'm sorry to say. Maybe some people take it too far, but I know I'm not. I'm not whining about the PI call, it was legit. The Pats got help on that delay of game. As I watched it, my thought was "the Jags got away with it" because it was bang-bang when the clock hit 0 and the snap came. I'd say 50% of the time those are calle DoG. The fact the whistle came SOOOOO late makes me raise an eyebrow - or two.
Where there's smoke, there's fire.
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Stop it. It's like only had calls happen for the Pats. You all have tour hate glasses on. You do see me saying Jacksonville is the reason why they are winning? I can admit it.
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"Everyone is against us/me!!!!"" :lol :lol :lol :lol
:biggrin:
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:lol
You telling me you're puking for the Pats with everyone else? Really? Lol
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If the Jags win they deserve all the kudos. They came in, dictated the game on the road. That's amazing
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Bills fans everywhere rejoiced at the hit on Gronk that concussed him. They have so little else to root for.
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That's classy of you Kev. Cone on. Good luck on this fumble call.
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No way that fumble won’t be overturned by the refs.
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See. You guys just proved my point. Jags ball.
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Obvious, easy call. Even the jugheads in NY didn't have the balls to overturn that.
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That's classy of you Kev. Cone on.
I said "Bills fans." I never root for injuries to players, especially ones on head shots.
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Hey, you know my take on the NFL Offices lol. Damn heart attack time.
That's classy of you Kev. Cone on.
I said "Bills fans." I never root for injuries to players, especially ones on head shots.
Don't bring it up then. It says you're ok because Gronk was a moon for one play.,,
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The ref crying going on here is really weak.
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The ref crying going on here is really weak.
Seriously. Let he Jags win or lose on their an accord. No what you wish for.
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That wasn't pass interference right guys?
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Incidental contact...
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On M Lewis on 3rd down? It was, actually. But no call.
That's classy of you Kev. Cone on.
I said "Bills fans." I never root for injuries to players, especially ones on head shots.
Don't bring it up then. It says you're ok because Gronk was a moon for one play.,,
No, it really doesn't.
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Pats blew their chance there.
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Hell of a grab there.
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I'm dying here.
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For there to be zero holding calls against the Pats is pretty convenient.
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For there to be zero holding calls against the Pats is pretty convenient.
1 penalty against them all day.
6 against the Jags, almost all of them back breakers.
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And yet I saw a Jags offensive lineman push a pats guy in the back while he was on the ground 5 minutes left in the game. Stop it guys.
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And so it is decreed...
(https://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/753/801/f2f.gif)
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I'm dying here.
I can't imagine what it would be like for a fanbase to be so constantly stressed out yet so successful at the same time. Would you guys know what to do with yourself if you were in a big game, got out to a big early lead, and won by like 3 TDs?
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That's right! :lol
I'm dying here.
I can't imagine what it would be like for a fanbase to be so constantly stressed out yet so successful at the same time. Would you guys know what to do with yourself if you were in a big game, got out to a big early lead, and won by like 3 TDs?
I can. Every year is a new year.
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And now you know why each year is new!! SUPER BOWL SUCKAS!!!!
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Well crap.
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How fitting is it that the closest Jag to Lewis to stop him on that 1st down run once he got it outside was held from behind and nothing was called? I swear, you can't make this stuff up.
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Put the Pats away. Don't leave it to one play, One call.
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And yet I saw a Jags offensive lineman push a pats guy in the back while he was on the ground 5 minutes left in the game. Stop it guys.
It saying Jags didn’t commit a penalty. But for NE O line not to get called for a holding call against a top rated D is BS. There were several plays where there were holds happening and zero call. The TD to Amendola there was an obvious holding call.
Like I said, it’s convenient for Brady and Co. that they could essentuallly do whatever they wanted without reprocussion.
The Pats are good, obviously. But to have ‘fortunate’ calls or non calls work in your favor Non stop....you guys can’t be upset that literally everyone outside New England despised them. They’re like the Detroit Red Wings is the 90’s. EVERY call that needs to go for them does and they rarely have one go against them.
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Don't allow the refs to put you in this position. The Jags had their chance. They blew it.
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Gary, don't waste your time or your breath.
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Let the hate flow guys. I still love you guys . I get it.
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Ironic the ONLY two people defending the officiating are from New England. I'm sure Stads will join in eventually.
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Ironic the ONLY two people defending the officiating are from New England. I'm sure Stads will join in eventually.
I'm not defending the refs. I just think the crying about it is ridiculous. I mean. It's the easy way out, and you guys are way too smart for that. I'm not even pimping the Pats.
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I'm not defending. This bad calls on both sides I saw many missed calls. Let's not blame the refs for the Jags lost, let's blame the Jags for the lost.
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Jacksonville should be upset for losing this game they had a solid lead in over 3 quarters of the game, but they should also feel good moving forward. Bortles will get better, and with those RBs and that defense, Jacksonville should not be taken lightly in the '18-'19 season.
Jalen Ramsey should have shut his mouth this past week though :lol
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I’m a Giants fan so it didn’t matter to me either way who one. On one hand I think the Pats in the Super Bowl makes it more interesting, but on the other hand as a Giants fan I would have enjoyed seeing Tom Coughlin in the Super Bowl again. With all that said I find it humorous how far people go to take credit away from the Pats and constantly say how the refs are handing them the games.
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Ironic the ONLY two people defending the officiating are from New England. I'm sure Stads will join in eventually.
Ironic and not at all surprising.
With all that said I find it humorous how far people go to take credit away from the Pats and constantly say how the refs are handing them the games.
I give Belichick all the credit in the world. He is unquestionably the GOAT.
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They’re like the Detroit Red Wings is the 90’s.
I liked the 90's Red Wings. Saw them in Boston each year for a 4 or 5 year stretch. What's not to like about them?
I give Belichick all the credit in the world. He is unquestionably the GOAT.
Might explain why you guys are taking the cheese.
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I honestly can’t deal with this anymore. How many times am I gonna have to see the Patriots in the Super Bowl while my Jets flounder in mediocrity? If the Patriots win again, I’m honesty done. I can’t handle watching New England constantly win. It’s slowly killing me. And forget about if the Eagles beat the Vikings. If it’s a New England-Philadelphia Super Bowl, I’m not watching. I can’t stomach either team winning.
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That would be unbearable. The two worst fanbases in pro sports.
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I'm not defending. This bad calls on both sides I saw many missed calls. Let's not blame the refs for the Jags lost, let's blame the Jags for the lost.
I'm not blaming them for the Jags loss, but don't such a home to not recognize that the Pats ended up on the positive side of the "bad calls".
Again.
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Another team loses because of gutless, conservative play calling. How many runs by Fournette into an 8-man box for 1 yard in the 4th quarter :lol. And how nice for the punter to choke and shank it so NE had to drive an amazing 30 yards for the game-winner. I’m not wasting my breath on the officiating, we all saw the penalty breakdown, but the worst call that impacted the game wasn’t even a penalty.
Tomlin gets exposed again, cut a guy in James Harrison who is way better than the guys who replaced him and who made a few key plays that contributed to the win. Happy for him at least.
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I'm not defending. This bad calls on both sides I saw many missed calls. Let's not blame the refs for the Jags lost, let's blame the Jags for the lost.
I'm not blaming them for the Jags loss, but don't such a home to not recognize that the Pats ended up on the positive side of the "bad calls".
Again.
Again, you don't hear me complaining how about all the holding and hooking that happened in the first half from the defensive backs of the Jags. That's playoff football but rules the league should be called.
You didn't hear me lay blame in the first half at all. You didn't hear me blame that the Jags defensive back for taking Gronk out again it was a head-to-head but I don't think it was done purposely.
I get why fans that are not of the Pats are looking for every little defensive hold or some kind of penalty but you're imagining things because you guys want Pat's to lose. I saw so many other penalties against the Pats but I didn't post oncw crying about it.
The Jags almost pulled it off. They got pressure with the front four and they were banging physically. That's playoff football.
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As someone with no dog in the race, let me say that my take on all those complaining about the refs "playing" for New England...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7DwGIPVAAA3Eph.jpg:large)
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Minnesota is getting annihilated. The Eagles whole team looks amped up beyond belief. What an ass kicking.
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I wanted to predict this but I wussed out.
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Anyone could've predicted you were a wuss. ;D
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:lol
Well, I am a couch potato these days.....
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And so it is decreed...
(https://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/753/801/f2f.gif)
This is what I always think of when you bitch about the refs. For the life of me I don't know why you watch football. It makes no sense, really.
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I have mentioned it here before, and talked about it with some friends and relatives, and we all pretty much agree that fantasy football is the main reason most of us still watch. If not for fantasy football, I wouldn't watch a lot. The product itself just isn't that good anymore, between the constant replays killing the flow of games, the 844 commercials a game, the bad officiating, the style of play having changed, etc.
This year's Super Bowl is the first one since the early 90s that I will not go out of my way to watch.
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Thinking the refs are in the Pats' corner is the definition of Fantasy Football.
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I tried playing fantasy football for a couple of years. I didn't get much out of it, but I think it's cool for people that enjoy it. I simply love the real game in, and of itself.
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The last Super Bowl I didn’t watch was Super Bowl XXXIX. I also won’t watch this year’s game. As a proud New York sports fan, I can’t watch a Boston vs Philadelphia championship game. When the team I prefer is the frickin’ Eagles, well that’s just not ok.
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pretty much 41-0 2.0.
https://lubbockonline.com/stories/011501/nfl_011501026.shtml#.WmVLZa6nHIV
https://twitter.com/mlindstrom/status/955262882752671744
"So basically the #Vikings are Lucy and the fans are Charlie Brown"
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Regarding officiating: you do remember that the NFL is officially marketed as “entertainment” not “sports competition”?
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The worst thing (commercially) for the NFL would've been a Jags/Vikings SB.
@ Nick... I don't have a horse in the race either, but there have been more than a few eyebrow crinkling moments around calls (or non-calls) that favour the Patriots.
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I tried playing fantasy football for a couple of years. I didn't get much out of it, but I think it's cool for people that enjoy it. I simply love the real game in, and of itself.
I love the game, but for me fantasy football enhances it even more. I play in a different type of league though where you pick different players each week and can only use them once for the season, but it definitely makes it more interesting for me.
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IMO, Fantasy Football is partially contributing to the 'killing' of the league. It's definitely impacting the ratings - all people care about is the Fantasy highlights; FF fans care more about their FANTASY team and points than the REALITY of the game (and ergo, the entirety of the sport). The league has thus (in some regards) catered to the Fantasy fan.
I think the league needs to make some adaptations ... lose a many of the commercial breaks for starters, and work to make it a 2 1/2 hour product much like the NHL did a few years back.
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Agreed. I stay away to enjoy the games.
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The worst thing (commercially) for the NFL would've been a Jags/Vikings SB.
On the contrary, two first timers, a first ever home field advantage, no Patriots, I think it would have been swell for them. Besides, the audience is mostly there to swill cheap beer at parties and watch the commercials nowadays.
@ Nick... I don't have a horse in the race either, but there have been more than a few eyebrow crinkling moments around calls (or non-calls) that favour the Patriots.
I think people find what they're looking for. There are tons of calls that could go either way in every game. How often is it said that there's holding every play? People are convinced that there's a conspiracy to favor the Patriots, which is laughable, so they see every call in their favor as suspect and ignore the ones that go against them.
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It's really a bizarre turn of events. I am kind of disappointed that it's a Patriots v Eagles Super Bowl, and yet who (apart from diehard Eagles fans, I suppose) had the Eagles in the Super Bowl back in September? They have been a real surprise package this season, and because sports media/fans are so minutely focused on the here and now, it's very easy to forget that.
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Really surprised that the Vikings lost the way they did. That game was over at half after the pick-6 and strip sack in the red zone. Philly played lights out on both sides of the ball.
I'm also really surprised that the Eagles are such underdogs in the super bowl. They aren't that much different than the Jags and they should beat the pats. Of course the Patriots have SB experience and Comeback King Tom Brady so it will be difficult. But the Eagles defense is legit and will make this a good Super Bowl. I don't foresee a blowout.
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I don't know that I agree with most of what's being said (except for el Barto; ask Brandin Cooks about that no-call on pass interference when the Jag defender was literally holding his arm down as they are running down the field) here.
Watching the Jags/Pats - and I did, every minute - was watching two very disciplined very skilled teams engage in a well-played game. I didn't watch the entire Vikes/Eagles game, but I saw about half, and in comparison it was a sandlot game. Blount is tough, but so is Fournette, and after a first quarter of 7 yard runs that should have been 2 or 3, the Pats shut him the fuck down. They will do the same to Blount. The Eagles D is tough, but so is the Jags, and when the Pats needed to move the football, they found a way to do so. They will do the same to the Eagles.
You need to play a full 60 minutes of football against the Pats, and it's hard to do. I know most of you will argue with me, but I said this to the buddies I was with while watching the game: when the Jags took a knee before halftime, I said "they're not playing to win, they're playing not to lose. Second half is going to be interesting."
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I don't know that I agree with most of what's being said (except for el Barto; ask Brandin Cooks about that no-call on pass interference when the Jag defender was literally holding his arm down as they are running down the field) here.
Watching the Jags/Pats - and I did, every minute - was watching two very disciplined very skilled teams engage in a well-played game. I didn't watch the entire Vikes/Eagles game, but I saw about half, and in comparison it was a sandlot game. Blount is tough, but so is Fournette, and after a first quarter of 7 yard runs that should have been 2 or 3, the Pats shut him the fuck down. They will do the same to Blount. The Eagles D is tough, but so is the Jags, and when the Pats needed to move the football, they found a way to do so. They will do the same to the Eagles.
You need to play a full 60 minutes of football against the Pats, and it's hard to do. I know most of you will argue with me, but I said this to the buddies I was with while watching the game: when the Jags took a knee before halftime, I said "they're not playing to win, they're playing not to lose. Second half is going to be interesting."
Big point of discussion where we were watching. They'd moved backwards on their previous drive and were afraid to play football for the final 55 seconds. The outcome was predictable. A couple of passes for a long FG plus the ball back to begin the 2nd would have kept them in it. I can understand where they were coming from, and in week 5 that might have made sense. In the AFC-CCG against the Pats you need to play with some balls.
And while people want to blame Goodell's Patriots Mafia for the delay of game penalty, they ignore the fact that the Jags couldn't get the ball snapped within thirty seconds after coming off a freaking timeout! That's just inexcusable. In the meantime, Bill's digging into the bag of tricks to eek out a win, busting out the double-pass and the fleaflicker (successfully, unlike the Jags). Really, this was a better game than people want to admit, with both sides doing their share to win or lose it. Dismissing it as a gift from the refs is silly. Just wait for the next Wrestlemania.
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I'll sum up this season in one word. BORING!! As far as the SB goes...can't stand either team. :tdwn
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Big point of discussion where we were watching. They'd moved backwards on their previous drive and were afraid to play football for the final 55 seconds. The outcome was predictable. A couple of passes for a long FG plus the ball back to begin the 2nd would have kept them in it. I can understand where they were coming from, and in week 5 that might have made sense. In the AFC-CCG against the Pats you need to play with some balls.
And while people want to blame Goodell's Patriots Mafia for the delay of game penalty, they ignore the fact that the Jags couldn't get the ball snapped within thirty seconds after coming off a freaking timeout! That's just inexcusable. In the meantime, Bill's digging into the bag of tricks to eek out a win, busting out the double-pass and the fleaflicker (successfully, unlike the Jags). Really, this was a better game than people want to admit, with both sides doing their share to win or lose it. Dismissing it as a gift from the refs is silly. Just wait for the next Wrestlemania.
I agree with everything you said there EB. Reminds me of the Pack/Seahawks NFCCG a few years back, when the Pack picked off Wilson with about 4 mins to go, took a knee rather than try and gain some yardage. I said right then that they were gonna lose the game. Then they follow that up with 3 conservative running plays to burn time/timeouts, and we all know what happened after that. Also reminds me of John Fox not having Peyton take a knee at the end of 1H AND 2H when they lost to the Ravens in the AFCCG the year before that. Fox let 55 seconds and 5 timeouts go to waste!!! Man I was angry.
However ... one shouldn't be ignoring the fact the Pats benefitted from some of the officiating. If that (late whistle) DoG isn't called, the Jags run the clock down and get a FG attempt at a minimum, and it's anywhere between 14-3 and 21-3+ 2H possession. Look, the Pats have proven time and time again they can comeback, so whatever additional halftime lead the Jags had wouldn't have meant jack. But don't ignore that the Pats were a net-beneficiary of some questionable calls.
Again.
It's like the hockey team that has 8 penalties called against them, and 1 for them. Regardless how good you play, it presents an additional hurdle to overcome.
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I don't at all agree with the Pats Mafia line of thinking. At ALL. To make that argument you have to ignore too many variables. We mentioned the no-call on Cooks', and yet haven't even mentioned the Lewis non-fumble that went to the Jags early on. The call went to the Jags on the field, and New York - not at all immune to reversing calls in hindsight - sustained the call on the field.
BUT, for shits and giggles, let's assume you're right. If you're a well-coached team - which the Patriots are - you take into account ALL the variables, including shitty officiating. If you believe that you're not going to get any calls in your direction, then you assume the play clock ends at "1 second" and you don't push the envelope. That was a legit call, and it was in the Jags' power to snap that ball before it was an issue.
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Agreed. I stay away to enjoy the games.
I stopped playing fantasy for two reasons, one is the above in that I hated watching my team yet kind of wanting a player on the opposing team to do well for my fantasy. It made rooting for my team less enjoyable. And also because I was terrible at fantasy football and didn't want to put in the time to study everything to actually win a league, which it seemed that those who did consistently won the money. Screw that, let me enjoy the real game and keep my money. Not worth it for me anymore.
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I really didn't see anything I could call "questionable" officiating. That doesn't mean they got every call correct. But the big ones, the ones people are calling "game changers," were all perfectly legit.
Snap the ball after the game clock strikes 0, especially after coming from a timeout, and you'll almost always get called.
Shove a receiver out of bounds when the ball is in the air, you'll almost always get called for PI.
Have your arm around the receiver's neck, you'll almost always get called for PI.
Those weren't even close calls. They were no-brainers.
Were there some no-calls against the Pats? Sure. But I didn't see anything questionable there either. There was nothing obvious where there's no way the refs miss it, but they swallowed the flag/whistle. Correct me if I'm missing something, but I didn't see anything where I could legitimately say, "If I'm a ref standing down on the field watching the game in real time, there's no way I make the call that guy missed." I saw missed calls go both ways. But nothing so serious that it raised any flags in my mind. And not so many one way or the other that I felt the need to start keeping a tally. Seemed like a routine, decently-officiated game from what I saw. :dunno:
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There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?
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There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?
Because it’s Philly so nobody is surprised.
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Big point of discussion where we were watching. They'd moved backwards on their previous drive and were afraid to play football for the final 55 seconds. The outcome was predictable. A couple of passes for a long FG plus the ball back to begin the 2nd would have kept them in it. I can understand where they were coming from, and in week 5 that might have made sense. In the AFC-CCG against the Pats you need to play with some balls.
And while people want to blame Goodell's Patriots Mafia for the delay of game penalty, they ignore the fact that the Jags couldn't get the ball snapped within thirty seconds after coming off a freaking timeout! That's just inexcusable. In the meantime, Bill's digging into the bag of tricks to eek out a win, busting out the double-pass and the fleaflicker (successfully, unlike the Jags). Really, this was a better game than people want to admit, with both sides doing their share to win or lose it. Dismissing it as a gift from the refs is silly. Just wait for the next Wrestlemania.
I agree with everything you said there EB. Reminds me of the Pack/Seahawks NFCCG a few years back, when the Pack picked off Wilson with about 4 mins to go, took a knee rather than try and gain some yardage. I said right then that they were gonna lose the game. Then they follow that up with 3 conservative running plays to burn time/timeouts, and we all know what happened after that. Also reminds me of John Fox not having Peyton take a knee at the end of 1H AND 2H when they lost to the Ravens in the AFCCG the year before that. Fox let 55 seconds and 5 timeouts go to waste!!! Man I was angry.
However ... one shouldn't be ignoring the fact the Pats benefitted from some of the officiating. If that (late whistle) DoG isn't called, the Jags run the clock down and get a FG attempt at a minimum, and it's anywhere between 14-3 and 21-3+ 2H possession. Look, the Pats have proven time and time again they can comeback, so whatever additional halftime lead the Jags had wouldn't have meant jack. But don't ignore that the Pats were a net-beneficiary of some questionable calls.
Again.
It's like the hockey team that has 8 penalties called against them, and 1 for them. Regardless how good you play, it presents an additional hurdle to overcome.
If you don't want to be down 8 to 1 in the penalty department play with some fucking discipline. Here's something to consider. If there are penalties that are judgement calls, PI and holding, which some say happen on every play of the game, isn't it reasonable to conclude that just being a mere 5% better than other teams at not committing PIs or holds would result in a significant decrease in the penalty count? More than just five percent? I'd call it more likely that it's that five percent that constitute the bulk of the judgment calls. Is it unreasonable to conclude that a Belichick coached team might be 5% better at not committing penalties?
And for fuck's sake, don't snap the ball at zero after the referees manually start the game clock and stand around watching it for 40 seconds. :lol
And if you want an indicator of an undisciplined team, watch how they behave at the kneel down to end the game. I'd bet money that anytime a team acts childish during the kneel down they also had more penalties to during the game. The Jags were no where near as bad as Seattle after choking away the super bowl, but they were still acting like punks.
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There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?
Because it’s Philly so nobody is surprised.
Yup. If they didn't set the bus on fire or sling poo at it then it's acceptable conduct for Philadelphia fans.
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I think people find what they're looking for. There are tons of calls that could go either way in every game. How often is it said that there's holding every play? People are convinced that there's a conspiracy to favor the Patriots, which is laughable, so they see every call in their favor as suspect and ignore the ones that go against them.
Perhaps the silliest thing about all the pro-Patriots talk is that it's completely inconsistent with the vigor with which the NFL conducted the witch hunt that was "deflate-gate." Moreover, the notion that some sort of pro-Patriots officiating conspiracy could be kept secret for so long is just not plausible. If anything like that actually existed, some disgruntles schlub who was a back judge for three years would have spilled the beans by now. The NFL is also the league most concerned with parity, so perpetuating a dynasty makes no sense.
Seemed like a routine, decently-officiated game from what I saw.
Could't agree more.
The Jags were lights out for most of the first three quarters but then went into a conservative shell. I could't believe how far off the Pats' receivers their vaunted DBs were playing. The Pats' receivers are average to slightly above average at best, but anyone can be a good receiver when the cornerbacks give 10 yards' cushion.
The Eagles v. Vikings game was over almost before it began. Total waste of time, and I feel bad for Vikings fans.
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I don't at all agree with the Pats Mafia line of thinking. At ALL. To make that argument you have to ignore too many variables. We mentioned the no-call on Cooks', and yet haven't even mentioned the Lewis non-fumble that went to the Jags early on. The call went to the Jags on the field, and New York - not at all immune to reversing calls in hindsight - sustained the call on the field.
Hold on... The double pass that ended in a fumble turnover? Are you even remotely (within 100 miles of) implying that wasn't a fumble? I for the life of me can't understand what's confusing about some of these rules. If a player makes a catch over the goal line, but doesn't keep control throughout the play, it is NOT a touchdown. It's not an instantaneous thing, it's still a football play that has to be completed. When the ball is jarred loose on the initial hit on Lewis, he NEVER regains control of the ball. This absurd idea that he somehow pins it against his hip for the smallest fraction of a second and thus regains control, all while ignoring the simple fact that the defender just plain TOOK the ball from him is problematic and has no place anywhere near athletic competition...
As a Jags fan, I have nothing to say about the refs. I agree that it was two impressive teams that played a hard game. The numbers of penalties and the idea of no holding calls against the fastest most athletic defense make me think, but it ends there. I have more of a problem with people even imagining that Lewis had the ball :rollin.
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There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?
Because it’s Philly so nobody is surprised.
Yup. If they didn't set the bus on fire or sling poo at it then it's acceptable conduct for Philadelphia fans.
Depends on your point of view. I lived in Philly for almost five years; you have to sling poo at least once to establish your bona fides as a "real fan" in South Philly. ;) :)
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I don't at all agree with the Pats Mafia line of thinking. At ALL. To make that argument you have to ignore too many variables. We mentioned the no-call on Cooks', and yet haven't even mentioned the Lewis non-fumble that went to the Jags early on. The call went to the Jags on the field, and New York - not at all immune to reversing calls in hindsight - sustained the call on the field.
Hold on... The double pass that ended in a fumble turnover? Are you even remotely (within 100 miles of) implying that wasn't a fumble? I for the life of me can't understand what's confusing about some of these rules. If a player makes a catch over the goal line, but doesn't keep control throughout the play, it is NOT a touchdown. It's not an instantaneous thing, it's still a football play that has to be completed. When the ball is jarred loose on the initial hit on Lewis, he NEVER regains control of the ball. This absurd idea that he somehow pins it against his hip for the smallest fraction of a second and thus regains control, all while ignoring the simple fact that the defender just plain TOOK the ball from him is problematic and has no place anywhere near athletic competition...
As a Jags fan, I have nothing to say about the refs. I agree that it was two impressive teams that played a hard game. The numbers of penalties and the idea of no holding calls against the fastest most athletic defense make me think, but it ends there. I have more of a problem with people even imagining that Lewis had the ball :rollin.
That's exactly the play to which I'm referring, but you're misunderstanding me. I'm not arguing it wasn't a fumble, I'm saying that if the "fix was in" that's as good a play as any to assert the bias. I tend to agree with your assessment of the play, but I don't think it was a slam dunk, and I think it has to be mentioned as an example of where the call didn't go the Pats way. The hit on Gronk is another one; Morrone said he felt it was the right call, but Richard Sherman punctured his spleen arguing on social media that the refs were preventing DBs from doing their job, and that the choice (falsely) was between potentially ringing Gronk's bell maybe, or completely obliterating his knees with a low hit. Now, that assessment seems to ignore about four feet of territory in between his knees and medulla oblongata, but still.
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Gotcha, in that case I would agree. But then again, it's like the idea of having the answer key for the final exam. You don't want to get ALL of them right lol. And I also think the call on the Gronk hit was the right call. It clearly wasn't targeting or malicious, but that stuff is bound to happen on occasion.
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I'm not arguing it wasn't a fumble
What I'd be ticked about if I were a Jags fan is the fact that the play was whistled when he wasn't touched or down and had no one even close to him as he ran back what would have been a touchdown to go up 27-10 in the 4th quarter. Instead, for some reason....it's whistled dead.....the Jags punt.
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I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down. But that's just a guess.
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I missed what the Philly fans did to the Vikings bus. Can someone clue me in?
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I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down. But that's just a guess.
But he was never touched. I think that may be 'why' the ref blew the whistle....but again....it was "fortunate" the whistle blew and made it impossible for him to close out his great play. A quick whistle that could have not bee blown. Let the play happen....if the Pats want to challenge he was down then they can challenge.
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And now I just saw a headline where an Eagles fan punched a police horse.
No word yet on what charges the alleged perpetrator will be saddled with.
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I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down. But that's just a guess.
But he was never touched. I think that may be 'why' the ref blew the whistle....but again....it was "fortunate" the whistle blew and made it impossible for him to close out his great play. A quick whistle that could have not bee blown. Let the play happen....if the Pats want to challenge he was down then they can challenge.
Pretty sure he would be down by contact. Also, the refs want to be quick to whistle a play dead, assuming it's dead, to prevent late hits and pile-ons.
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I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down. But that's just a guess.
But he was never touched. I think that may be 'why' the ref blew the whistle....but again....it was "fortunate" the whistle blew and made it impossible for him to close out his great play. A quick whistle that could have not bee blown. Let the play happen....if the Pats want to challenge he was down then they can challenge.
Pretty sure he would be down by contact. Also, the refs want to be quick to whistle a play dead, assuming it's dead, to prevent late hits and pile-ons.
Ehh....I don't know EB. He was never touched after he had the ball. They have to let a play like that run IMO....that's (7) points right there that was taken away by a quick whistle. If he was indeed down, then the Pats challenge and they start from there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOX-IymctMY
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Yeah, there's no way he isn't down by contact there. It isn't even close. No need to hold of blowing the whistle. Jack didn't seem to have a problem with the whistle either.
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I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down. But that's just a guess.
But he was never touched. I think that may be 'why' the ref blew the whistle....but again....it was "fortunate" the whistle blew and made it impossible for him to close out his great play. A quick whistle that could have not bee blown. Let the play happen....if the Pats want to challenge he was down then they can challenge.
Pretty sure he would be down by contact. Also, the refs want to be quick to whistle a play dead, assuming it's dead, to prevent late hits and pile-ons.
Kinda like a blowing the play dead when the play clock hits 0? :biggrin: You can't have it both ways EB... to say that the refs are and should be quick to blow plays dead, but then ignore it with the DoG call, and put the fault on the Jags. I don't want to beat a dead horse (I'm not from Philly), but THAT was my issue about that DoG call. It was a fair call, but it was late. Very late. Like end of the play late. Conveniently turning 1st and 10 at the 30ish to 3rd and 12 from the 50ish.
Here's that play. You tell me when you hear the whistle.
https://youtu.be/q8w4pbAkkGc?t=386
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I missed what the Philly fans did to the Vikings bus. Can someone clue me in?
I missed it as well but just came across this (doesn't mention the bus though) https://www.yahoo.com/sports/vikings-fans-didnt-best-experience-eagles-game-180137998.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/vikings-fans-didnt-best-experience-eagles-game-180137998.html)
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You can hear right after the snap that the refs were blowing the whistle. That's the right call. You can't come out of a timeout and have a delay of game.
Now the fumble I'd say he wasn't touched and the refs blew the whistle too early.
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And now I just saw a headline where an Eagles fan punched a police horse.
No word yet on what charges the alleged perpetrator will be saddled with.
You sir are a hero.
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You can hear right after the snap that the refs were blowing the whistle. That's the right call. You can't come out of a timeout and have a delay of game.
Then you sir have better hearing than I. I agree it was the "right" call and it was total sloppiness by the Jags. But we've all seen those plays also NOT called DoG.
I don't buy into the whole conspiracy/mafia/ref-on-the-payroll crap. I simply recognize that the Pats are repeatedly a net-benefactor of questionable calls/non-calls.
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I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down. But that's just a guess.
But he was never touched. I think that may be 'why' the ref blew the whistle....but again....it was "fortunate" the whistle blew and made it impossible for him to close out his great play. A quick whistle that could have not bee blown. Let the play happen....if the Pats want to challenge he was down then they can challenge.
Pretty sure he would be down by contact. Also, the refs want to be quick to whistle a play dead, assuming it's dead, to prevent late hits and pile-ons.
Ehh....I don't know EB. He was never touched after he had the ball. They have to let a play like that run IMO....that's (7) points right there that was taken away by a quick whistle. If he was indeed down, then the Pats challenge and they start from there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOX-IymctMY
Absolutely down by contact. I doubt even Kev would question that the play should have been allowed to continue.
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You can hear right after the snap that the refs were blowing the whistle. That's the right call. You can't come out of a timeout and have a delay of game.
Now the fumble I'd say he wasn't touched and the refs blew the whistle too early.
It was contact with Lewis that caused him to be on the ground. He doesn't need to be touched again.
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You can hear right after the snap that the refs were blowing the whistle. That's the right call. You can't come out of a timeout and have a delay of game.
Now the fumble I'd say he wasn't touched and the refs blew the whistle too early.
It was contact with Lewis that caused him to be on the ground. He doesn't need to be touched again.
Yes, you're right. But maybe I'm not clear of the rules... Jack didn't have possession of the ball when contact by Lewis was made. How can you 'tackle' someone that doesn't have the ball? Isn't it the contact directly related to being the ball carrier? Again, maybe I don't know the rules properly.
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I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down. But that's just a guess.
But he was never touched. I think that may be 'why' the ref blew the whistle....but again....it was "fortunate" the whistle blew and made it impossible for him to close out his great play. A quick whistle that could have not bee blown. Let the play happen....if the Pats want to challenge he was down then they can challenge.
Pretty sure he would be down by contact. Also, the refs want to be quick to whistle a play dead, assuming it's dead, to prevent late hits and pile-ons.
Kinda like a blowing the play dead when the play clock hits 0? :biggrin: You can't have it both ways EB... to say that the refs are and should be quick to blow plays dead, but then ignore it with the DoG call, and put the fault on the Jags. I don't want to beat a dead horse (I'm not from Philly), but THAT was my issue about that DoG call. It was a fair call, but it was late. Very late. Like end of the play late. Conveniently turning 1st and 10 at the 30ish to 3rd and 12 from the 50ish.
Here's that play. You tell me when you hear the whistle.
https://youtu.be/q8w4pbAkkGc?t=386
Were they playing an official short at that point? I don't see the referee in his position at the start of that play.
Also, I didn't say they were and should be quick. I said they wanted to be. :biggrin:
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You can hear right after the snap that the refs were blowing the whistle. That's the right call. You can't come out of a timeout and have a delay of game.
Now the fumble I'd say he wasn't touched and the refs blew the whistle too early.
It was contact with Lewis that caused him to be on the ground. He doesn't need to be touched again.
Yes, you're right. But maybe I'm not clear of the rules... Jack didn't have possession of the ball when contact by Lewis was made. How can you 'tackle' someone that doesn't have the ball? Isn't it the contact directly related to being the ball carrier? Again, maybe I don't know the rules properly.
I think he was still in contact with Lewis when he gained possession. But that is a good question and I don't know the answer. It's also the case that I'm not sure the official on the sideline even thought that it was a fumble. They were both well on the ground when the ball came out. The whistle might have been blown because Lewis was down by contact. That was certainly my first take.
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There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?
Because it’s Philly so nobody is surprised.
That's why they'll probably lose the SB. Nobody will be surprised about that either. Just like nobody will be surprised about the Pats winning. So, I'm not expecting any surprises.
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El Barto, I think that we've seen so many calls for a similar play get called so differently that as fans we can't can't figure out what is the right call. That leads to "fans" calling what they see,with emotion. HD instant replay causes too many questions.
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I'm rooting for the Pats. Id rather see greatness continue to be great than see the Eagles win (I'm a Giants fan). Also, as a Giants fan, I would never set foot in that Eagles stadium for a game wearing Giants colors. The Eagles fans are well known for being really bad towards visiting fans. There is nothing enjoyable about going to an away game in that environment. There's also nothing to be proud about acting that way.
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Let the smack talk begin!!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x700q90/922/yvuB0H.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pmyvuB0Hj)
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I'm rooting for the Pats. Id rather see greatness continue to be great than see the Eagles win (I'm a Giants fan). Also, as a Giants fan, I would never set foot in that Eagles stadium for a game wearing Giants colors. The Eagles fans are well known for being really bad towards visiting fans. There is nothing enjoyable about going to an away game in that environment. There's also nothing to be proud about acting that way.
And as I told Neon back when she was posting if she wanted to wear her Eagles jersey to a cowboys game here she'd probably have a great time. She'd take a good-natured ribbing, but that's the whole point. If anybody took it too far 80k Texans would be decidedly on her side. That's just courtesy.
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El Barto, I think that we've seen so many calls for a similar play get called so differently that as fans we can't can't figure out what is the right call. That leads to "fans" calling what they see,with emotion. HD instant replay causes too many questions.
Now this is something I can agree with.
Oh, and that meme was fantastic.
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There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?
Because it’s Philly so nobody is surprised.
That's why they'll probably lose the SB. Nobody will be surprised about that either. Just like nobody will be surprised about the Pats winning. So, I'm not expecting any surprises.
Surprisingly, I'm not surprised by that (that you're not expecting any surprises).
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I'm rooting for the Pats. Id rather see greatness continue to be great than see the Eagles win (I'm a Giants fan). Also, as a Giants fan, I would never set foot in that Eagles stadium for a game wearing Giants colors. The Eagles fans are well known for being really bad towards visiting fans. There is nothing enjoyable about going to an away game in that environment. There's also nothing to be proud about acting that way.
And as I told Neon back when she was posting if she wanted to wear her Eagles jersey to a cowboys game here she'd probably have a great time. She'd take a good-natured ribbing, but that's the whole point. If anybody took it too far 80k Texans would be decidedly on her side. That's just courtesy.
Yea totally, that's how we treat our visiting fans at PSU football games. No doubt there's always some asshole who goes too far, but in the spirit of the game and fun, some good jokes and friendly boos are part of being the opposing fan. Punches, getting your hat pissed on, verbal abuse... that's too much and that's what Philly is known for.
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I doubt even Kev would question that the play should have been allowed to continue.
That's cute.
Yesterday, I thought blowing the play dead was fine.
After seeing the replay today several times from different angles, it's clear that Jack didn't have control until he rolled away from Lewis, so the play should not have been blown dead. I guess we can just add that to the list of calls or non-calls that helped them.
Also, the handful of sports shows I DVR every day, I flipped through each of them earlier and every single one of them discussed the officiating and whether or not the Jags got robbed, so it is a story, not just a talking point by what NE fans would call salty haters.
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I'm rooting for the Pats. Id rather see greatness continue to be great than see the Eagles win (I'm a Giants fan). Also, as a Giants fan, I would never set foot in that Eagles stadium for a game wearing Giants colors. The Eagles fans are well known for being really bad towards visiting fans. There is nothing enjoyable about going to an away game in that environment. There's also nothing to be proud about acting that way.
And as I told Neon back when she was posting if she wanted to wear her Eagles jersey to a cowboys game here she'd probably have a great time. She'd take a good-natured ribbing, but that's the whole point. If anybody took it too far 80k Texans would be decidedly on her side. That's just courtesy.
Yea totally, that's how we treat our visiting fans at PSU football games. No doubt there's always some asshole who goes too far, but in the spirit of the game and fun, some good jokes and friendly boos are part of being the opposing fan. Punches, getting your hat pissed on, verbal abuse... that's too much and that's what Philly is known for.
City of Brotherly Love my ass.
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I missed what the Philly fans did to the Vikings bus. Can someone clue me in?
I missed it as well but just came across this (doesn't mention the bus though) https://www.yahoo.com/sports/vikings-fans-didnt-best-experience-eagles-game-180137998.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/vikings-fans-didnt-best-experience-eagles-game-180137998.html)
I've heard things about those fans for many years. Some of the people in Cleveland are like that as well. That's why I'll never go up there to see a game. I live about 70 miles south of there, and I've never given much more than a passing thought. The times that I've been at Pittsburgh home games the people that were fans of the opposing team seemed to be treated fairly well. Unfortunately, some of the people in these cities seem to think that they need to act like European soccer hooligans.
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There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?
Because it’s Philly so nobody is surprised.
That's why they'll probably lose the SB. Nobody will be surprised about that either. Just like nobody will be surprised about the Pats winning. So, I'm not expecting any surprises.
Surprisingly, I'm not surprised by that (that you're not expecting any surprises).
You’re not surprised? I dunno man, I completely disagree.
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I've heard things about those fans for many years. Some of the people in Cleveland are like that as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMa20xXykI
Amazing that someone could chew out his own fans and put down his rival's fans in the same sentence.
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I've heard things about those fans for many years. Some of the people in Cleveland are like that as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMa20xXykI
Amazing that someone could chew out his own fans and put down his rival's fans in the same sentence.
:lol
I forgot about that. Definitely one of my favorite non-play football memories of all time!
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I've heard things about those fans for many years. Some of the people in Cleveland are like that as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMa20xXykI
Amazing that someone could chew out his own fans and put down his rival's fans in the same sentence.
Didn't even need to click he link to know what that was. I was talking bout Sam Wyche on Sunday. You can always tell a QB that had him as a coach by the way they execute play action. If the cameraman is 10 yards down field by the time he realized the QB still has the ball, he was probably coached by Sam at some point in his career.
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There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?
Because it’s Philly so nobody is surprised.
That's why they'll probably lose the SB. Nobody will be surprised about that either. Just like nobody will be surprised about the Pats winning. So, I'm not expecting any surprises.
Surprisingly, I'm not surprised by that (that you're not expecting any surprises).
You’re not surprised? I dunno man, I completely disagree.
You're on a roll! Contrarian! :)
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I doubt even Kev would question that the play should have been allowed to continue.
That's cute.
Yesterday, I thought blowing the play dead was fine.
After seeing the replay today several times from different angles, it's clear that Jack didn't have control until he rolled away from Lewis, so the play should not have been blown dead. I guess we can just add that to the list of calls or non-calls that helped them.
Also, the handful of sports shows I DVR every day, I flipped through each of them earlier and every single one of them discussed the officiating and whether or not the Jags got robbed, so it is a story, not just a talking point by what NE fans would call salty haters.
That talking heads are pulling controversial topics out of the drawer to bring some suspense to a game that - on paper anyway - has the potential to be pretty boring isn't that noteworthy. I think here and elsewhere (thinking "P/R") every single one of us could identify at least one story that's getting a ton of air and print but is essentially a non-story.
For me - and I don't mean this against you personally, Kev - the "officiating" story defies logic. Why would the refs favor the Pats then the league drags their marquee player through the mud with a suspension? Why make the "Deflategate" even a "-gate" to start with? Anyone with any reason to find in the Pats favor could have done so on about five different topics (one being that once the balls were reinflated, Brady LIT UP the Colts, two being that it was plausible - even if improbable - that the air pressure was a natural phenomenon) but they didn't.
So is the "officiating story" essentially "the refs/the league favor the Pats, except when they don't which we ignore"?
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I think a better indicator of the lack of officiating bias against the Pats is the roughing the passer calls they get (i.e. while Brady is on the field).
You'd think that would be where the emotions come in (protect the GOAT!!). In stats since 2009, Brady is 23 out of 43 QBs in the table (some are now retired, like Romo and Manning) in roughing calls per game. Not even in the TOP HALF. Contrast that with the guy that whines on the weekly about all the times he's been "roughed" and there's no call (Camshaft Newton) who is eighth, and earns a "roughing the passer" penalty for his team at almost double the rate per game that Brady does.
https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php
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I think a better indicator of the lack of officiating bias against the Pats is the roughing the passer calls they get (i.e. while Brady is on the field).
You'd think that would be where the emotions come in (protect the GOAT!!). In stats since 2009, Brady is 23 out of 43 QBs in the table (some are now retired, like Romo and Manning) in roughing calls per game. Not even in the TOP HALF. Contrast that with the guy that whines on the weekly about all the times he's been "roughed" and there's no call (Camshaft Newton) who is eighth, and earns a "roughing the passer" penalty for his team at almost double the rate per game that Brady does.
https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php
Wow, that is quite interesting.
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As I said before, if you're convinced that the refs are all on the take, you're going to look for every possible example to support your claim. Examples to the contrary go unnoticed. People see what they want to see, and plenty want an excuse to diminish what the Patriots do.
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x700q90/922/kROG37.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pmkROG37j)
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x700q90/922/kROG37.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pmkROG37j)
:rollin :rollin
I’m Tom’s bitch.
Flowers for Brady. :lol
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/550x700q90/922/kROG37.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/f/pmkROG37j)
Good Lord, that's fantastic :lol
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That is pretty funny.
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That is pretty funny.
I can only read that with Dan Patrick's Bill Belichick imitation voice. LOL!
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That is pretty funny.
I can only read that with Dan Patrick's Bill Belichick imitation voice. LOL!
Your post was funnier during that split second when I thought you said Danica Patrick.
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That is pretty funny.
I can only read that with Dan Patrick's Bill Belichick imitation voice. LOL!
Your post was funnier during that split second when I thought you said Danica Patrick.
And Danica is now dating Aaron Rodgers.....we are about one link from a conspiracy here
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:omg:
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I think a better indicator of the lack of officiating bias against the Pats is the roughing the passer calls they get (i.e. while Brady is on the field).
You'd think that would be where the emotions come in (protect the GOAT!!). In stats since 2009, Brady is 23 out of 43 QBs in the table (some are now retired, like Romo and Manning) in roughing calls per game. Not even in the TOP HALF. Contrast that with the guy that whines on the weekly about all the times he's been "roughed" and there's no call (Camshaft Newton) who is eighth, and earns a "roughing the passer" penalty for his team at almost double the rate per game that Brady does.
https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php
That is a non-story. Brady is a master of not taking direct hits, so it is hard to get roughing penalties on him when you are lucky to get a glancing blow on him.
On the flip side, Cam is terrible at avoiding contact, whether it being in the pocket or running the ball.
It is not luck why Brady is still pretty healthy for a 40-year old. And it is not a coincidence that the true pocket QBs are the guys almost never get hurt (Brady, Eli, Rivers, Brees, Ryan), while the guys who love to run around tend to get hurt or dinged more (Rodgers, Cam, Wentz, Mariotta, Luck).
As I said before, if you're convinced that the refs are all on the take, you're going to look for every possible example to support your claim. Examples to the contrary go unnoticed. People see what they want to see, and plenty want an excuse to diminish what the Patriots do.
Has anyone said the refs are "on the take"? I certainly never have. Because I don't think they are.
I think officials in just about any major sport have the tendency to make calls in favor of proven juggernauts, almost like "this team has been so good for so long and teams this good don't make many mistakes," so they get more of the benefit of the doubt on close calls than other teams do. Same thing happened with the Bulls in the 90's, the Lakers in the 80's, Duke for the last 3 decades :lol and the Red Wings in the late 90's/eary 00's.
When it comes to pass interference or defensive holding calls, they clearly get those calls slanted heavily in their favor (see links below), but I think a lot of that is coaching. NE WR's are clearly coached up like crazy to do things to draw PI when there isn't PI there, and shame on the officials for falling for it far too often. That is why I give Belichick mad props. He knows the mentality of officials and coaches his team accordingly.
https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-holding?year=2017
https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-pass-interference?year=2017
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I'm rooting for the Pats. Id rather see greatness continue to be great than see the Eagles win (I'm a Giants fan). Also, as a Giants fan, I would never set foot in that Eagles stadium for a game wearing Giants colors. The Eagles fans are well known for being really bad towards visiting fans. There is nothing enjoyable about going to an away game in that environment. There's also nothing to be proud about acting that way.
And as I told Neon back when she was posting if she wanted to wear her Eagles jersey to a cowboys game here she'd probably have a great time. She'd take a good-natured ribbing, but that's the whole point. If anybody took it too far 80k Texans would be decidedly on her side. That's just courtesy.
Yea totally, that's how we treat our visiting fans at PSU football games. No doubt there's always some asshole who goes too far, but in the spirit of the game and fun, some good jokes and friendly boos are part of being the opposing fan. Punches, getting your hat pissed on, verbal abuse... that's too much and that's what Philly is known for.
City of Brotherly Love my ass.
This is why as a NY fan I would never go to a sporting event in Philly. It shouldn’t be like that and it’s sad it is.
Years back my brother and I and a couple of friends went to a different baseball stadium each year when the Mets were playing them. We went to Boston, Baltimore, and Cleveland as well as several Mets/Yankees games at Yankees stadium and each time we had a great time joking with the fans around us all in good fun. We actually had a run in with some Red Sox fans on our way out of one of the games, but other than that the fans there were great, although very intense, but it’s still in good fun. The one place we always wanted to go though but didn’t as we did not feel safe was Philly. I’ve just heard too many stories from people who have had bad experiences there.
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That is pretty funny.
Is it though?
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https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-holding?year=2017
https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-pass-interference?year=2017
So the Pats were tied for 5th with 14 Defensive PI Calls For and an NFL high with 355 yards gained from them.
This also includes 2 more games than more than 2/3s of the league.
They were also 7th in Pass Attempts by Team, but Tom Brady had the more Attempts than any other QB.
Seems like a marginal argument to me.
Using the same website you linked, they also lead the lead in Offensive PI calls against.
I mean, c'mon. The Patriots throw the ball basically more than any other team. Seems more than reasonable that they would be involved in PI calls for AND against, which the data bears out.
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The numbers are interesting across the board, when you look at them all.
What is more interesting is the Belichick/Brady dynamic this week. Regarding Brady's thumb issue, he has talked since how difficult it was to get ready for the game because of the injury, while Belichick several times has dismissed it as being no big deal. I think the rift is real and I will be surprised if they are still together next year. I am sure it grinds Belichick's gears than Brady always gets way more credit than him. After Sunday, most of the chatter was about how Brady had made his 8th Super Bowl, with hardly any mention of it also being Belichick's 8th Super Bowl as a head coach.
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Meh, I don't know. Belichik has never really been one to focus on shit like a hand injury. He purposely keeps things close to not tip his hat to his opponents. I do think that if there is a rift it's between Kraft and Belichik over the trade of Garopollo. If Kraft forced that to happen he basically screwed the teams future. Belichik is not going to coach somewhere else and I think him and Brady bow out at the same time.
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There is definitely issues between the 2. We it affect the play on the field and coaching? No. When BB got rid of TB's buddy Guerrero from working on the Pat's site except for Tom there is issues.
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I think a better indicator of the lack of officiating bias against the Pats is the roughing the passer calls they get (i.e. while Brady is on the field).
You'd think that would be where the emotions come in (protect the GOAT!!). In stats since 2009, Brady is 23 out of 43 QBs in the table (some are now retired, like Romo and Manning) in roughing calls per game. Not even in the TOP HALF. Contrast that with the guy that whines on the weekly about all the times he's been "roughed" and there's no call (Camshaft Newton) who is eighth, and earns a "roughing the passer" penalty for his team at almost double the rate per game that Brady does.
https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php
That is a non-story. Brady is a master of not taking direct hits, so it is hard to get roughing penalties on him when you are lucky to get a glancing blow on him.
On the flip side, Cam is terrible at avoiding contact, whether it being in the pocket or running the ball.
It is not luck why Brady is still pretty healthy for a 40-year old. And it is not a coincidence that the true pocket QBs are the guys almost never get hurt (Brady, Eli, Rivers, Brees, Ryan), while the guys who love to run around tend to get hurt or dinged more (Rodgers, Cam, Wentz, Mariotta, Luck).
As I said before, if you're convinced that the refs are all on the take, you're going to look for every possible example to support your claim. Examples to the contrary go unnoticed. People see what they want to see, and plenty want an excuse to diminish what the Patriots do.
Has anyone said the refs are "on the take"? I certainly never have. Because I don't think they are.
I think officials in just about any major sport have the tendency to make calls in favor of proven juggernauts, almost like "this team has been so good for so long and teams this good don't make many mistakes," so they get more of the benefit of the doubt on close calls than other teams do. Same thing happened with the Bulls in the 90's, the Lakers in the 80's, Duke for the last 3 decades :lol and the Red Wings in the late 90's/eary 00's.
When it comes to pass interference or defensive holding calls, they clearly get those calls slanted heavily in their favor (see links below), but I think a lot of that is coaching. NE WR's are clearly coached up like crazy to do things to draw PI when there isn't PI there, and shame on the officials for falling for it far too often. That is why I give Belichick mad props. He knows the mentality of officials and coaches his team accordingly.
https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-holding?year=2017
https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-pass-interference?year=2017
But while I largely agree with your analysis, I disagree with the conclusion. That the team is coached well and through their high level of performance has "earned" a benefit of the doubt isn't really the same thing as what's being discussed above, that is, that the refs have a "Patriots bias". There's a difference: one is just the refs looking one way more than another; the other is a conscious effort by a team that coaches the four corners of the game and leaves nothing to chance. Put another way: Bills and Ravens and Colts and [insert team] fans can't bitch about the latter, because it's in the power of their team to do the same and they don't. It's like getting mad at Brees for putting up 350 yards on your defense. Or LaVeon Bell for putting up 150 yards rushing. Don't bitch, find a way to stop them.
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That is pretty funny.
Is it though?
You disagree with me completely? :)
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There is definitely issues between the 2. We it affect the play on the field and coaching? No. When BB got rid of TB's buddy Guerrero from working on the Pat's site except for Tom there is issues.
I think there might be something - there's smoke, there's fire - but I also think that these guys have been able to keep eyes on the prize for so long that it's going to be - dare I say - a nothingburger.
We haven't mentioned it, but in my opinion, the biggest issue is likely Tom's reluctance to give up the ghost. Belichick has always been a "make the change before you have to" kind of coach. He's never really driven a player into the ground, and traded up before that happened. I wonder if there's not a "anyone is fair game... except Brady" mentality on the team? Tom's still playing well so it's not a real issue, but it's going to come to a head very soon. Belichick is a "practice how you play" kind of coach, and while there are players in the league that basically "don't practice", Brady isn't and can't - because of the high number of timing routes they run - be one of them.
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Sure that'll become an issue. And there's where I believe the rumors about a rift between Kraft and Belichick. It isn't necessarily something that can't be managed, at least in the short term. But the Garoppalo trade highlighted the difference in philosophies. Belichick was looking to the future, and was likely wanted Jimmy G to stay. That isn't to say that he would have benched or traded Brady next season. But it was pretty clear that he was preparing for that day. Kraft, on the other hand, seems to have wanted Brady "protected." He is looking to the now. Different philosophy.
I tend to think Brady and Belichick can continue to work through the difference from their perspectives, at least for whatever time Brady has left. Belichick and Kraft is a whole different dynamic, and I'm not sure that can continue. But what do I know?
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Sure that'll become an issue. And there's where I believe the rumors about a rift between Kraft and Belichick. It isn't necessarily something that can't be managed, at least in the short term. But the Garoppalo trade highlighted the difference in philosophies. Belichick was looking to the future, and was likely wanted Jimmy G to stay. That isn't to say that he would have benched or traded Brady next season. But it was pretty clear that he was preparing for that day. Kraft, on the other hand, seems to have wanted Brady "protected." He is looking to the now. Different philosophy.
I tend to think Brady and Belichick can continue to work through the difference from their perspectives, at least for whatever time Brady has left. Belichick and Kraft is a whole different dynamic, and I'm not sure that can continue. But what do I know?
Funny thing about all that, if true, is that it's usually the GMs job to think long term and the coaches job to take what he has and find a way to win with it now.
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The one thing I know for sure is that trying to get into the head of Belichick is a fruitless effort, and even if it weren't I suspect it'd be a very spookly place that none of us really want to hang out.
That said, it wouldn't surprise me if he opted to retire after a SB win. The BKB dynamics might or might not factor into it. Now would simply be a fine time to bow out.
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Belichick is the coach and the GM Nick.
This situation only happened once before with Green Bay but you saw the decline in Farve's play before they moved on. Brady has not lost anything so this is truly unique. The thorn was why only a second round pick. From what was out there, GM's weren't sold(I don't understand that at all) on Jimmy G. The only thing from a Pats fan perspective is the durability factor of Jimmy G. Brady played through issues, Jimmy didn't. That Texan's game last year Jimmy was supposed to play but backed out the last second.
This leads to Kev, who talked about how Brady seems to avoid a lot of hits, knows how to fall and does no run a lot out of the pocket leading to injuries like Newton, Jimmy G, Big Ben & Rogers.
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That said, it wouldn't surprise me if he opted to retire after a SB win. The BKB dynamics might or might not factor into it. Now would simply be a fine time to bow out.
I have been thinking the same thing. But part of me feels like he is just not ready to be done with football. He may very well decide that he feels done with the politics of his particular organization. But he may not feel done with football at all. And where does that leave him? I'm not sure.
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There really hasn't been a decline in his play, I don't see a reason to retire even with a win. They will be the favorites to win again next year.
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Belichick is the coach and the GM Nick.
This situation only happened once before with Green Bay but you saw the decline in Farve's play before they moved on. Brady has not lost anything so this is truly unique. The thorn was why only a second round pick. From what was out there, GM's weren't sold(I don't understand that at all) on Jimmy G. The only thing from a Pats fan perspective is the durability factor of Jimmy G. Brady played through issues, Jimmy didn't. That Texan's game last year Jimmy was supposed to play but backed out the last second.
This leads to Kev, who talked about how Brady seems to avoid a lot of hits, knows how to fall and does no run a lot out of the pocket leading to injuries like Newton, Jimmy G, Big Ben & Rogers.
I agree with this, almost completely, but it sort of is an argument against Belichick being cheesed about Brady and his part in the success. Belichick hasn't given one indication, in 43 years in the NFL, that he gives a flying rat's ass about the perception of the fans or the media. He has, on occasion, let slip an awareness of the respect and admiration of his peers. Not willing to give Jimmy G. a flyer is certainly indicative of at least SOME acknowledgement that Bill B. is the real force behind the Pats success, in that the other GMs don't think he's enough to turn around a sinking ship.
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Belichick is the coach and the GM Nick.
I had a complete herp derp moment on that one.
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Belichick is the coach and the GM Nick.
This situation only happened once before with Green Bay but you saw the decline in Farve's play before they moved on. Brady has not lost anything so this is truly unique. The thorn was why only a second round pick. From what was out there, GM's weren't sold(I don't understand that at all) on Jimmy G. The only thing from a Pats fan perspective is the durability factor of Jimmy G. Brady played through issues, Jimmy didn't. That Texan's game last year Jimmy was supposed to play but backed out the last second.
This leads to Kev, who talked about how Brady seems to avoid a lot of hits, knows how to fall and does no run a lot out of the pocket leading to injuries like Newton, Jimmy G, Big Ben & Rogers.
I agree with this, almost completely, but it sort of is an argument against Belichick being cheesed about Brady and his part in the success. Belichick hasn't given one indication, in 43 years in the NFL, that he gives a flying rat's ass about the perception of the fans or the media. He has, on occasion, let slip an awareness of the respect and admiration of his peers. Not willing to give Jimmy G. a flyer is certainly indicative of at least SOME acknowledgement that Bill B. is the real force behind the Pats success, in that the other GMs don't think he's enough to turn around a sinking ship.
He does care though. Its the whole reason we got the Wickersham article in the first place.
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Belichick is the coach and the GM Nick.
This situation only happened once before with Green Bay but you saw the decline in Farve's play before they moved on. Brady has not lost anything so this is truly unique. The thorn was why only a second round pick. From what was out there, GM's weren't sold(I don't understand that at all) on Jimmy G. The only thing from a Pats fan perspective is the durability factor of Jimmy G. Brady played through issues, Jimmy didn't. That Texan's game last year Jimmy was supposed to play but backed out the last second.
This leads to Kev, who talked about how Brady seems to avoid a lot of hits, knows how to fall and does no run a lot out of the pocket leading to injuries like Newton, Jimmy G, Big Ben & Rogers.
I agree with this, almost completely, but it sort of is an argument against Belichick being cheesed about Brady and his part in the success. Belichick hasn't given one indication, in 43 years in the NFL, that he gives a flying rat's ass about the perception of the fans or the media. He has, on occasion, let slip an awareness of the respect and admiration of his peers. Not willing to give Jimmy G. a flyer is certainly indicative of at least SOME acknowledgement that Bill B. is the real force behind the Pats success, in that the other GMs don't think he's enough to turn around a sinking ship.
There has been indications. For me Brady was very open after the game about the injury. Seem they are not quite on the same page of late.
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Maybe. I have no inside baseball information, so you (King and TAC) could well be right. We'll see when the post-career autobiographies come out! :)
Reporter: "Bill, now that you've retired, what do you have to say about Tom Brady?"
Bill: "Today is Wednesday."
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That is pretty funny.
Is it though?
You disagree with me completely? :)
Not if you think I do.
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:-*
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When a player retires BB gushes over them. He just doesn't even with the G.O.A.T. The injury comment is a good example after the game.
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I think after 18 years Bill probably has a pretty good idea how to relate to Brady. If he doesn't fawn all over him there's probably a reason, and I suspect 12 gets that. Moreover, for the most part, Bill seems far more complimentary of his opponents than he does of his own team. That's just part of his style. Remember, he learned a great deal from Parcells, who was a notorious dick to a lot of people he was highly fond of.
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I think after 18 years Bill probably has a pretty good idea how to relate to Brady. If he doesn't fawn all over him there's probably a reason, and I suspect 12 gets that. Moreover, for the most part, Bill seems far more complimentary of his opponents than he does of his own team. That's just part of his style. Remember, he learned a great deal from Parcells, who was a notorious dick to a lot of people he was highly fond of.
Phil Simms.
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Oh no doubt. That's not the reason for the rift. But you can tell by both in interviews(and we see a lot here) that there is an underlying current. Even the writers that are pro Pats are saying that this.
They still can work together fine. It's just some friction. The coach that had a plan thwarted and a player who now is planning on life after football that still is playing at an elite level at an age no one plays like that.
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In the end it comes down to whether or not they can keep their egos in check. I don't think either of them have much of a problem in that regard. The problem comes when one of them decides they can do just as well without the other, and I think they both understand just how flawed that premise is.
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I agree. Now the talk is on pro football talk Florio had a piece saying how much is Belichick worth if the Raiders QB Carr got 25 million a year?
In the old days when ProFootballTalk was NFL talk before it was bought by NBC a lot of florio's insights was from Agents in speculation is this is from Belichick's agent. Now that both coordinators I'll be coming head coaches and he traded Garoppolo Belichick has Kraft over a barrel of a gun.
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I think there might be something - there's smoke, there's fire - but I also think that these guys have been able to keep eyes on the prize for so long that it's going to be - dare I say - a nothingburger.
We haven't mentioned it, but in my opinion, the biggest issue is likely Tom's reluctance to give up the ghost. Belichick has always been a "make the change before you have to" kind of coach. He's never really driven a player into the ground, and traded up before that happened. I wonder if there's not a "anyone is fair game... except Brady" mentality on the team?
Just getting back to this.
This is the entire crux of the situation. The bolded part is where Kraft steps in. It is believed that Belichick wanted to keep Garrappolo until the end of the season and make a decision at that point. If you believe the Wickersham article, and I do, Brady got antsy and got Kraft involved.
Belichick picked Jimmy G's landing spot, and the return, or lack thereof, was a middle finger to Kraft. As in, "he's gone, you happy now."
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I'm a follow-the-money kind of guy. I think money talks and bullshit walks. So this kind of thing almost always gives me pause:
www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/someone-reportedly-placed-a-multi-million-dollar-bet-on-the-eagles-to-win-super-bowl-lii/ar-AAv8FNq?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp
What does he/she know that I don't? Then again, what does the book know that I don't (if it is taking that bet)?
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That's just such a stupid thing to do and such a stupid risk to take that I kind of hope whoever did that loses just on principle. Anyone dumb enough to put millions on a football game deserves to lose it, in my book. I'm kinda doubly rooting for the Pats now. :lol
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If he's taking the Eagles to cover the spread it's a pretty safe bet. The Atlanta SB was the first time they didn't win by 3 or 4 points (6) or lose. Their super bowls are always close games. If he's betting on them to win, and it doesn't sound like they know for sure yet, it's a fool's bet. Not because the Eagles can't win, but because football is way to flaky to bet on.
The bigger point, though, is that we have no idea what 10 million means to this guy. I seriously doubt it's half his wealth or anything. More likely it's akin to one of us betting $500 or something.
Super Bowl XXXIX: Patriots 24, Eagles 21
Super Bowl XLVI: Giants 21, Patriots 17
Super Bowl XXXVIII: Patriots 32, Panthers 29
Super Bowl XXXVI: Patriots 20, Rams 17
Super Bowl XLII: Giants 17, Patriots 14
Super Bowl XLIX: Patriots 28, Seahawks 24
Super Bowl LI: Patriots 34, Falcons 28 (OT)
Eagles +5 sounds like a pretty good bet to me.
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That article says
The referenced bettor here, by the way, picked all six 2017 World Series games correctly before cashing out with $14 million prior to Game 7. So they have a track record of success.
Sounds like a professional gambler who has plenty of money to gamble. And yea, betting the spread on the Eagles isn't bad bet at -5 since historically these games are close with the Pats. However, I think it's possible this is the first time the Pats win easily.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22213241/vince-mcmahon-gimmick-free-xfl-return-2020 (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22213241/vince-mcmahon-gimmick-free-xfl-return-2020)
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snore
btw, going back to NE-J'ville.....
Pats had the fewest penalties since the one against the Ravens in 2011. Ravens had six, for only 33 yards...Pats, one for five. Quite a bit was made of the scoreboard not being in sync with the chains at the end, when Cundiff came out and hooked the FG to force OT. As a Raven fan, the ST coach (and kicker) should have called time out, got their sh*t together, taken a breath, and then gone to OT. btw...if Lee Evans doesn't drop/have the pass in the endzone knocked out of his hands......Ravens go to two straight SBs.
Last week: two pass interferences called on the Jags, one obvious, the other you get the call 90% of the time at home. The hit on Gronk: obvious penalty. The delay of game: obvious. So......that leaves TWO penalties against them, to the one of NE.
oh, and, btw.....I've watched the final 3rd down conversion run by the Patriots: J'ville could have had two linemen called for 'illegal hands to the face'.
This from a 'bystander' (who hates NE, but respects the hell out of them).
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22213241/vince-mcmahon-gimmick-free-xfl-return-2020 (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22213241/vince-mcmahon-gimmick-free-xfl-return-2020)
If you just do the three things NFL fans dislike the most you'll suck in some viewers.
If it looks like a catch it's a catch. Instant replay is always wrong.
All players, fans, and concessionaires must stand, salute, and if possible tear up during the national anthem.
Blows to the head, holding, and pass interference will no longer be flagged.
The problem is that it will still be a bunch of people not good enough to play at the pro level. College players have something to play for. NFL players are at the top of the game. These will just be guys who already had their shot and aren't good enough or aren't young enough to play at a high level. It'll fail, again, for that reason.
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Yea I really don't get what he's trying to do. He says the timing of the NFL's issues isn't the reasoning, but I can't think of any other reason to try this again at this time especially when he says things like all players will stand and the game will be shorter (direct shots at what people complain about the NFL). He says it won't be a developmental league, but that's exactly what it will be because there's no reason for a player to choose to play the XFL over the NFL. I can't believe he is spending 100 million of his own money. He's got balls, I'll give him that, but what a waste of money. I do think the idea of payment based upon winning is interesting though. That won't make the league special, but is an interesting way to deal with how players are paid and gives some more incentive than the payoff money players already make. Also, all teams are owned by him. Might as well be VXL. I like Vince overall, but this is so stupid IMO.
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Just watched "Tom vs. Time" part 1 on Facebook. It's an infomercial but I dug it.
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"What would you do if you could reimagine the game of football?" Vince asks. I think Barto has is right. And boobies. Their biggest failing, aside from not giving teams enough time to practice before the season started, was thumbing their noses at the NFL and its fans. Even the slightest football fan out there follows the NFL and never wanted an alternative. If they embraced those fans and said "Hey here's something to watch in the off-season" they might have had better luck.
Anyway, I hate the two weeks before the SB. And I probably post that every single year at this time.
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Yea I really don't get what he's trying to do. He says the timing of the NFL's issues isn't the reasoning, but I can't think of any other reason to try this again at this time especially when he says things like all players will stand and the game will be shorter (direct shots at what people complain about the NFL). He says it won't be a developmental league, but that's exactly what it will be because there's no reason for a player to choose to play the XFL over the NFL. I can't believe he is spending 100 million of his own money. He's got balls, I'll give him that, but what a waste of money. I do think the idea of payment based upon winning is interesting though. That won't make the league special, but is an interesting way to deal with how players are paid and gives some more incentive than the payoff money players already make. Also, all teams are owned by him. Might as well be VXL. I like Vince overall, but this is so stupid IMO.
That is interesting, but not hugely important to the product. The will to win is why people compete. If you and I agree to play a round of darts in some pub somewhere we're both going to try like hell to win. Are we going to try harder if somebody's bankrolling us? It'll add pressure but not incentive. It'll do two things here. It'll prompt people to take extra risks, either avoiding or laying on a hit. And it'll cause discord in the lockerroom. How is some washed up arena league player going to react when he loses a paycheck because an idiot safety takes out two defenders and allows a game-winning touchdown? Neither of these will improve the level of competition.
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I couldn't be the least bit interested. I never even paid any attention to the XFL.
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Just watched "Tom vs. Time" part 1 on Facebook. It's an infomercial but I dug it.
Joe, is there a link to this? Where the F do I find it?
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Facebook. You are shit out of luck old man.
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Facebook. You are shit out of luck old man.
Tim vs Time!
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Seriously. :lol
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Regarding the XFL, I'll watch it (it is football after all and I enjoy watching the sport), and I'm honestly interested in the idea of a simplified game (because too many games in the NFL these days are decided by a referee's interpretation of the complicated rulebook instead of by the players on the field and the coaches on the sideline), but I can't see this being hugely successful. It might reach the same level of success as the Arena Football League, but expecting it to be anything more than that is probably asking too much.
The big thing is that the XFL proves to be sustainable this time around, while it won't be competition to the NFL (let's face it, the NFL is an unstoppable machine), it will be an alternative for fans to watch alongside the NFL and more importantly, will be a place for guys to get work and maybe get a second chance to prove themselves. While it won't be a global juggernaut like the NFL or like Vince's primary money maker WWE, the XFL could prove to be a good thing.
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Other than calling "bullshit" on the idea that Vince isn't timing this against the ills facing the NFL - he'd be even more of a knucklehead if he DIDN'T - I'm kind of parked with el Barto on this. It's minor league football, and isn't going to be that different than what we've seen before, it's just going to pander to a different subset of the viewing public. (Though I do think they're going to run afoul on the idea that a more violent game is going to be a long-term winner; we still haven't seen the whole "CTE" thing peak).
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And it'll cause discord in the lockerroom. How is some washed up arena league player going to react when he loses a paycheck because an idiot safety takes out two defenders and allows a game-winning touchdown? Neither of these will improve the level of competition.
Yea, didn't even think about this. He could be trying to add a reality TV spin to this, who knows. Vince knows a lot about creating drama.
Vince also said they won't have any players with a criminal background. Which I think also is directed at the NFL. Also lowers his talent pool.
What I do think could work for them is broadcasting rights. Right now, with everyone buying content for streaming, Vince may be able to sell this to a Netflix for example. Think outside the box on how to broadcast his games to a new generation of people who aren't watching TV traditionally. Vince talked about this, along with also using different angles and views (also something the XFL did before). Either way, I think it's a dumb idea overall but there's way he could possibly make it work on a minor scale.
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A little to early to judge in my opinion. Will it be minor league? Yes, but that's okay. All of the other big sports have a minor league. Focus this is smaller markets and use it as a development opportunity. I think he should have changed the name though. The original XFL was the polar opposite of what is being presented now. From a safety perspective maybe there will be some innovations out of this. And being in the Winter and Spring won't hurt considering that is a black hole for sport right now. I'd say the chances of long term success is 50/50 right now.
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Other than calling "bullshit" on the idea that Vince isn't timing this against the ills facing the NFL - he'd be even more of a knucklehead if he DIDN'T - I'm kind of parked with el Barto on this. It's minor league football, and isn't going to be that different than what we've seen before, it's just going to pander to a different subset of the viewing public. (Though I do think they're going to run afoul on the idea that a more violent game is going to be a long-term winner; we still haven't seen the whole "CTE" thing peak).
He's clearly leveraging the overly public issues the NFL has had the last couple years, this season in particular, to start this up. I agree with you, if there was ever a time for Vince to this, it's now. I actually think there are several simple things he could do to attract a lot of fans. Scroll back through this thread and see some of the major complaints a lot of us have had with the NFL as of late, if he can address those common complaints, this thing might have a shot.
Like someone else mentioned though, the struggle will be the talent level. Are they going to be able to find guys good enough to make the games interesting? That will probably be the big determining factor as to whether Vince gets more than one season out of this venture.
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Thought this was interesting, unless you somehow believe that Belichick is the only coach in the league who teaches discipline and avoiding penalties:
https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2018/1/29/16943670/new-england-patriots-penalties-edge
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Five points that tell us nothing other than the Patriots gets penalized less. While reading it something did occur to me, though. Isn't it likely that when a team goes up against the vaunted Patriots in must-win football they're more inclined to takes chances? I know players like to use the mantras this is just another game, and we're not afraid of them, but the reality is that they know they're facing a great team with a long history of winning big games. I think that definitely factors into their play, and desperation causes mistakes (and often times fantastic play, as well).
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Five points that tell us nothing other than the Patriots gets penalized less. While reading it something did occur to me, though. Isn't it likely that when a team goes up against the vaunted Patriots in must-win football they're more inclined to takes chances? I know players like to use the mantras this is just another game, and we're not afraid of them, but the reality is that they know they're facing a great team with a long history of winning big games. I think that definitely factors into their play, and desperation causes mistakes (and often times fantastic play, as well).
Sort of a related tangent to that, when you're playing against people that are "better" than you - be it natural ability, or better coached - you tend to find yourself in situations where you lose discipline. This is why there are so many holding penalties late in plays and as plays breakdown. You can only sustain the "plan" so long before it becomes a street fight. You get beat, and you grab a jersey, choosing between "gimme touchdown" and "first down at the 25". You get beat, and you take the holding penalty, choosing between "ten yards, repeat the down" and "my QB takes a helmet to the sternum". Or, you're looking to make your name, choosing to take "15 yards unsportsmanlike" over "Gronk thinks I'm a pussy".
This phenomenon is less obvious in football than it is in hockey and basketball, where you tend to get isolated one-on-one's more often.
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(https://scontent.fewr1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27459703_2118218341530330_4601181560217942966_n.jpg?oh=235915ece23437f6e1d9504be37c39ea&oe=5B1850A9)
:lol
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Classic.
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Do you think he practices these answers before hand, or it just naturally comes off the top of his head like that?
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He's a natural born speaker. :)
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So Smith Traded to the Redskins. Good trade for the Chiefs getting a solid CB and 3rd round draft pick. I wonder if Cousins ends up in Buffalo or Denver.
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The Chiefs are now dead to me.
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Big Hall of Fame class yesterday, including the best guard to ever play the game.
Who ya got today? I got Pats 28 Eagles 20.
And whatcha eatin'? I got some pork shoulder slow-cooking with some root beer and liquid smoke, to be served with a spicy ketchup glaze.
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Pats, 27- 24.
Big party, everybody bringing dishes.
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SNL skit Patriots Vs. Eagles in 1775 :lol
https://youtu.be/fcziw7helVg
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Of course I want the Eagles to win, but if not then fine - I just hope they get straight up beat . . . no ref jobs and no complicit stupidity like the kind that made Pete Carroll and Dan Quinn the real MVPs of the last 2 Patriot SB wins.
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Getting ready to stay up well into the night for my 9th Super Bowl.
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Go Eagles! Will be a quiet night at home with a bunch of appetizers and plenty of beer.
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Beers have been spilled. Food is in my belly. LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
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Will be a quiet night at home with a bunch of appetizers and plenty of beer.
Yes..
Beers have been spilled. Food is in my belly. LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
...and HELL YES!!
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In honor of Kev and his famous threads...
(https://i.imgflip.com/23850f.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/23850f) (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
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:lol :lol :lol
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Alright, Sproles jersey on, wing course done, chili course on the stove, beers open with more in the fridge... Let's do this!
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Brandin Cooks might not wake up until tomorrow.
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Crap. Touchdown.
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Brandin Cooks might not wake up until tomorrow.
That was the very definition of knocked the fuck out.
Crap. Touchdown.
Yay Iggles!!!
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They ain't coming back on this team. Brady..wtf...can't you run and catch at the same time?? Practice that in Montana next year!
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Yeah, he looked like my friend's two year old trying to catch that ball :lol
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So far I like the non-calls. And I don't see any favoritism in that respect either. Both teams have had a couple of things that *could* have been called in their favor and it wasn't. They are just letting them play.
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What is with both kickers?
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A FREAKIN PLAY!!!!!!!!!
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Eagles troll game strong AF
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Oh that was such ironic sweet justice. Foles doesn’t have butter on his fingers I guess.
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Timberlake going up in the stands and taking a selfie, with which whom looks like the backpack kid. Cash Me Outside, How bout That.
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That kid who got to take a selfie with JT just got a turbo charge to his sex life.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/23ym9o.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/23ym9o) (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
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(https://i.imgflip.com/23yn96.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/23yn96) (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
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When 29-19 is not better than 28-3...
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I thought that was going to be called back and fans would go bananas about the Pat's getting the calls.
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The Pats' D can't let that drive happen. They blow!
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The Pats' D can't let that drive happen. They blow!
I wouldn’t worry. We all know how this ends.
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Not playing Butler is a mistake.
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Terrible play call there, I think that’s the game-loser right there.
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Another blow out Superbowl the Pats are in.
I kid!
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As a Giants fan I was not thrilled about this matchup at all, but it’s been a great game.
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You can't give that 4th down play up!
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We knew this D would give up a SB game winning drive all year.
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Wow what a game, but 0 defense. Sucky pass rushes.
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That's a TD. He was running.
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Come on, he took 3 steps as a runner.
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If that is overnturned there’s major BS going on.
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Glad they didn’t overturn that. That was absolutely a catch.
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Let's go Brady. All this Tom vs Time bullshit. You put that out SB week, you better fucking deliver.
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That was pretty flagrant on that 2-pt attempt . . .
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I call Tuck Rule! :lol
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Very happy for Nick Foles. Good for him. He played a great game.
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Well, I'm bracing myself for when they burn philly to the ground in celebration :lol
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Eagles deserved it. Great game.
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Well, I'm bracing myself for when they burn philly to the ground in celebration :lol
I was going to say something, but you beat me to it :lol
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Well, I'm bracing myself for when they burn philly to the ground in celebration :lol
I think that was going to happen, win or lose. :lol :lol
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Well, I'm bracing myself for when they burn philly to the ground in celebration :lol
I think that was going to happen, win or lose. :lol :lol
I’m honestly more excited about what the hell is going to happen to Philly than I was about the game.
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Seemed to be a killer game, I missed the fourth quarter since it's meeting night, but was eagerly following on my phone. Congrats to the Iggles, please don't burn Philly down.
Eagles deserved it. Great game.
Now that my friends is losing with grace.
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Well, I'm bracing myself for when they burn philly to the ground in celebration :lol
It was going to burn to the ground win or lose. This coming from my gf who was a long time philly resident.
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The Patriots losing doesn't bother me at all. Philadelphia winning a superbowl upsets me to no end. Here's praying for a night of bloodshed, arson, and horse punching. If I don't wake up to a double digit body count I'm going to be even more upset.
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I didn't see that coming at all. I didn't for a second think the Pats wouldn't win till the Eagles kicked the final FG.
Brady was 28/48 for 505 with 3/0 TDs/INTs. Good lord.
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That was an unbelievably entertaining game. Wow. The refs should swallow their whistles during the regular season too.
Hey NFL head coaches, see what happens when you have guts and huge balls? You play to win and you can actually win. Tomlin would have screwed that game up 6 ways to Sunday.
Very happy for Foles and the Eagles, and congrats to NE for playing a great game.
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Peterson made some balsy calls. He needed to and they all worked out. Pats left points in the red zone early and late their D made the play that mattered.
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That was an unbelievably entertaining game. Wow. The refs should swallow their whistles during the regular season too.
Hey NFL head coaches, see what happens when you have guts and huge balls? You play to win and you can actually win. Tomlin would have screwed that game up 6 ways to Sunday.
Very happy for Foles and the Eagles, and congrats to NE for playing a great game.
It’s amazing what happens when the refs let the players do their thing. As long as they’re calling dirty plays and obvious penalties, they’re doing their jobs. That what happened tonight and it resulted in a great game.
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I'm much happier seeing the Eagles get their first instead of Pats get their 6th. I would think a lot of people lost money on this one.
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A lot of talk this morning on why would Butler be benched. It came out right before kickoff. You could see Butler crying durring the anthem.
What did he do?
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Excellent game. I missed the 1st qtr due to b-day dinner for Mrs. Jingle. Also missed the Foles TD catch because she was in the hot-tub waiting for me.
Refs called a good game, let them play without calling the nit-picky stuff. Great end result after the reviews of those 2 Philly TDs. Collinsworth and Michaels were annoying as fuck during those reviews. Though, the former did have a great statement earlier - "There have been more passes to quarterbacks than there have been punts".
I'm much happier seeing the Eagles get their first instead of Pats get their 6th. I would think a lot of people lost money on this one.
Bingo.
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Great Superbowl and the Eagles battled it out, they weren't going to choke out like the Falcons did but at one point I thought they would. I think I'm most upset with the commentating by Collinsworth, it felt like at times he wasn't watching the same game as me. He was talking about the last two Eagles TDs like they were huge questionable calls and the refs were wildly inconsistent with their calling, I was like WTF is he talking about. The last TD was clear as day, WR catches the ball and becomes the runner and crosses the goal line plane. Unless he had a ton of money riding on the Pats in Vegas he was just not willing to acknowledge some of these Eagles plays.
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I didn't get the announcers on that touchdown call either. He clearly took like three steps after catching the ball. It was not a close call at all to me. Though I get their point that it's hard to know how the refs are going to call it after replay these days.
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It's like Collinsworth and Michaels (especially the former) were looking for a reason that they would be over-turned. Comparing Ertz's catch to James' was just dumb.
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That was a touchdown. he took 3 steps before reaching for the endzone.
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In games like this you can easily see how you are at the absolute mercy of the refs. So many huge plays, 4th down plays, etc they could have swung that game whenever and however they wanted if they had chosen to do so.
I’m hoping this game results in a paradigm shift in the conservatism of nfl head coaches.
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Good game. Had fun watching. I won $75 off my $15 worth of squares. I'm happy with that.
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With the way the NFL has been lately, I was thinking they were going to overturn that one. I'm really happy that Philly won though. I know there are some good NE fans here so I mean no offense by this, but I think it's good for the NFL that Philly won. In the back of my head the entire playoffs I was telling myself NE was going to win it all again, so I'm glad I was wrong. I picked against Philly in every single playoff game.
Now I'm going to try to avoid Eagles blogs/etc. so I can continue to be happy for the team that they won. :facepalm:
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I don't want to take anything away from the Eagle Offense. Foles had 2 bad throws ALL game. The play calling was fantastic. The offensive line was great. The defense had trouble containing the best QB in the NFL so no surprise there.
BUT... The patriots blew that game. They got out coached. McDaniels didn't call a great game. They finally get Gronk involved in the third and then go away from him. They use Rex Burkhead on ONE drive where he kills it and then goes away. The kicking game hurt them. I called the game in the third after the missed tackle led to a TD (which should have been overturned) which is mentioned by Peter King in his SI article: "I think this was just a sloppy game for the New England defense. Time and again, the Patriots missed tackles and allowed the Eagles to extend drives. The one that comes to mind: New England cut the Eagle lead to 22-19, and had Philadelphia with a third-and-six at the Eagle 19. Foles threw to Nelson Agholor well short of the first down, but Pats cornerback Johnson Bademosi let Agholor get out of his tackle, and Agholor gained 17. I know how the game ended, but that doesn’t absolve a whole slew of bad defensive plays by the Patriots."
BUT BUT... Agree with Brady 100% that the Patriots were NEVER in control of that game and were not able to play on their terms. Again, the Eagles played a great game and some how allowed the GOAT to throw for more than 500 yards and still won. Crazy.
One more thing, everyone is saying Brady should have caught the ball thrown by Amendola. That ball was overthrown and I didn't hear a single mention of that. The ball thrown to Foles was perfect.
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And for what it's worth, I thought that was the worst Half Time show since the Black Eyed Peas. Boring as hell. Good Anthem by Pink though.
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And kudos to Pink for that rendition, since she was battling the flu and gave a really questionable performance just the day before in rehearsal.
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Solid game to watch, I really expected NE to make the comeback in the 2nd half, but Philly played a great aggressive game. Love the NY Post today
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27500735_2125031000849064_2627198706046093397_o.jpg?oh=8faf1d7a2c51684217b138a3c5fa2d83&oe=5B1259BF)
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My takes?
- The Eagles played an almost perfect game.
- The Patriots played their second worst game of the year, in all three phases.
- The Halftime show was half-assed.
- Can we finally put to rest the "Refs are in the Pat's back pocket" nonsense? The Ertz TD was legit, no question, but the Corey Clement TD should absolutely have been overturned given the way the NFL has defined a catch in recent weeks. He did NOT have control before the two feet touched in bounds (the "last" foot was on the white line).
- I give all the props in the world to Nick Foles; he played well, and he's just an all around good guy, but the Eagles played perfect, the Pats played horribly, and it was STILL a close game. That should say a lot.
- I personally think the Malcolm Butler thing is a non-story. First, they didn't lose because Butler didn't play (though I would have liked to see if he could tackle better than Rowe and Bademosi), and second, that's Belichick, that's the Patriot way. He made a statement and stuck with it. I admire that, and while I'm sure "PATZFANTROY420" knows everything about football, I'm going to put my money on Belichick to know what is the right call in any given situation. If the rest of the Pats played with that level of discipline, it might have been a different outcome.
- Brady's numbers were lights out - over 500 yards, 3 TDs, no INTs - but the reality is, he missed some REALLY easy throws, especially in the first half. There were at least two occasions where he missed Gronk on timing plays down the middle that could have made a difference.
- Fucking sick and tired of "RPO". It's a play that's been around since the dawn of time - I think the real Pop Warner invented it - and now all of a sudden it's got a fancy name? Please.
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On a side note, watching a game with a room full of people who only care about the last numbers of the score is tiresome as fuck. I get that it's a way for people who aren't into football to having something to do, but it's really annoying when everybody's shouting for that 72 yard field goal, or "no! Don't score here, wait until the next quarter!" There's a reason I don't like superbowl parties. Some of us are actually interested in the game itself.
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I watched it with a couple of college buddies (there were about eight or ten of us) and we opted to not do boxes for that reason. One of the girls - who didn't know shit about football, but seemed to be an expert at the two-and-a-half bottles of wine she drank - bought some boxes at a local bar she goes to, but that was it.
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- The Eagles played an almost perfect game.
- Brady's numbers were lights out - over 500 yards, 3 TDs, no INTs - but the reality is, he missed some REALLY easy throws, especially in the first half. There were at least two occasions where he missed Gronk on timing plays down the middle that could have made a difference.
Please tell me how it's possible to reconcile these two statements.
Eagles played an amazing game on offense.
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Easy. While almost playing a perfect game, the eagles defense was not perfect. The Pats missed opportunities in the first half (Red Zone points missed, Brady missing open receivers). In the end it was which defense would make a play and the Eagles did. It was a unreal offensive game from both sides.
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I think King nailed it, but the Eagles made plays when they had to. The Pats didn't.
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One stop does not make a game, and you can't have one side playing perfect, the other side playing alright, and call it a near perfect game, it wasn't. If their defense played as well as their offense the Eagles would have won by 20+ points.
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My observations:
1. Pink's National Anthem was good, in that she didn't over-extend it. I think the over/under prop bet was 2:00, and she was well under that. But she was flat on all the high notes.
2. I felt like the refs did an excellent job controlling the game without littering the field with flags and unnecessary reviews. Only 7 penalties all game for a total of 40 yards. I don't remember a single offensive holding call. Either the players played with discipline or the refs simply let them play. Either way, that made for a hugely enjoyable game.
3. Only ONE punt all game? Holy crap!
4. As a whole, the commercials this year seemed WAY better than I can remember in a LONG time. I particularly liked the Dodge commercial with the Vikings. There were a couple in the second half that were really good, and they usually shoot their wad with all the good commercials in the first half.
5. Brady is still the GOAT. I have a friend who says Montana and Unitas were better, but I just don't see it. Yes, Montana was 4-0 in Super Bowls, but isn't making the Super Bowl and losing a greater accomplishment than not making the Super Bowl? And I think his reference to Unitas is only to make himself feel like he's giving a nod to the pre-Super Bowl era players.
6. Foles played an AMAZING game and was able to do so because his coach trusted him. A well-deserved MVP award, and props to both of them.
7. I really do hope that this game shuts up the idiots who claim the Patriots' success has been all about cheating and biased officiating.
8. I only saw a couple of minutes of the halftime show because I was grilling at halftime. From what I saw, JT was BORING AF, and the whole thing was a giant waste of time. I was, however, quite impressed with how quickly they got the field ready to play after the show was done.
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One stop does not make a game
3. Only ONE punt all game? Holy crap!
Sometimes in these types of offensive shootout games, the team that does make a stop (the punt isn't the stop I'm referring to) near the end, is the team that wins. The strip sack and the 4th down TD (one being a stop, the other preventing a stop) were the plays that got the Eagles the win.
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One stop does not make a game, and you can't have one side playing perfect, the other side playing alright, and call it a near perfect game, it wasn't. If their defense played as well as their offense the Eagles would have won by 20+ points.
One stop absolutely CAN make the difference in a game, especially one as tight as this one was. Both offenses played amazingly well. I thought, overall, in terms of consistency, NE's offense played better. And that plays into my assessment of Philly's defense as well. I thought Philly's defense actually played pretty well. They just got outplayed by an offense that came to win it. The only real "flaw" I can point to is that they played very conservatively on defense after getting burned on blitzes early on. And while we are free to disagree with the decision to play it that way, it was clearly a coaching decision by Schwartz. I personally don't agree with it, but I can understand and respect why Schwartz played it as he did. On the other side, I think Philly's offense played very good, but were helped quite a bit by NE's defense just underperforming. They made mistakes in coverage and missed tackles. And in a tight game, small mistakes can become amplified and make all the difference. IMO, NE lost because an abundance of small mistakes added up, and Philly's offense took advantage of them to march up and down the field at will.
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One stop does not make a game, and you can't have one side playing perfect, the other side playing alright, and call it a near perfect game, it wasn't. If their defense played as well as their offense the Eagles would have won by 20+ points.
one punt in the game Nick (by Philly) so indeed one big play (ala: a turnover) was important.
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7. I really do hope that this game shuts up the idiots who claim the Patriots' success has been all about cheating and biased officiating.
Well, NE didn't get any questionable penalties called to benefit them, and they lost so ...
:neverusethis:
Although, I do think that Philly's 2-pt PAT on the final TD was PI, but was also fine with the non-call it was so close.
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1. Pink's National Anthem was good, in that she didn't over-extend it. I think the over/under prop bet was 2:00, and she was well under that. But she was flat on all the high notes.
Supposedly she had the flu, so given that it was actually a pretty good performance.
4. As a whole, the commercials this year seemed WAY better than I can remember in a LONG time. I particularly liked the Dodge commercial with the Vikings. There were a couple in the second half that were really good, and they usually shoot their wad with all the good commercials in the first half.
The Dodge one was fun, definitely. The Jeep one was meh, but the RAM one, man how many people must have been in that line to not say "guys, this is not that great a message". Amazon's was fun, and the Tide one. Matt Damon was probably the only person who understood his ad.
8. I only saw a couple of minutes of the halftime show because I was grilling at halftime. From what I saw, JT was BORING AF, and the whole thing was a giant waste of time. I was, however, quite impressed with how quickly they got the field ready to play after the show was done.
Yeah, the performance was really flat. And the sound was really weird too, it was impossible to hear him half of the time.
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Yea, for a lip sync, it was odd that the audio was so messed up. I was not a fan of the halftime show. Sure, he's a great dancer and performer, but other than some cool lighting, I just found it very boring. The girls surrounding him were also ugly, I didn't get that. The seflie at the end was lame, the Prince part wasn't really interesting (and we discuss here about the Dio hologram :lol)
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Leaks are coming out from multiple sources that Malcolm Butler missed curfew and was caught by police with weed.
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The Butler thing is weird but really I don't he would have made much of a difference. He's not I would consider to be a shut-down corner.
Thoughts on the hit on Cooks? Personally I'd like to those plays to be reviewed and automatically flagged as a personal foul.
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The Butler thing is weird but really I don't he would have made much of a difference. He's not I would consider to be a shut-down corner.
Thoughts on the hit on Cooks? Personally I'd like to those plays to be reviewed and automatically flagged as a personal foul.
I think they explained during the broadcast something to the effect that because he had come down with the ball and started making "football moves" he was considered a runner rather than a receiver by that point and so the hit was completely legal.
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Leaks are coming out from multiple sources that Malcolm Butler missed curfew and was caught by police with weed.
Eric Rowe got burned a couple of times, as I recall, and at least one of them was a third and long. Having Butler in the first half absolutely would have made a big difference.
And if the reports are true, WTF was he thinking? Not only is he in town for the super bowl, but he's auditioning for his next gig right now. If that's reflective of the kid's judgement it's no wonder Bill wasn't considering him for the long term.
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Leaks are coming out from multiple sources that Malcolm Butler missed curfew and was caught by police with weed.
Eric Rowe got burned a couple of times, as I recall, and at least one of them was a third and long. Having Butler in the first half absolutely would have made a big difference.
And if the reports are true, WTF was he thinking? Not only is he in town for the super bowl, but he's auditioning for his next gig right now. If that's reflective of the kid's judgement it's no wonder Bill wasn't considering him for the long term.
Yeah, that's just a dumbass move on his part.
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Leaks are coming out from multiple sources that Malcolm Butler missed curfew and was caught by police with weed.
Eric Rowe got burned a couple of times, as I recall, and at least one of them was a third and long. Having Butler in the first half absolutely would have made a big difference.
And if the reports are true, WTF was he thinking? Not only is he in town for the super bowl, but he's auditioning for his next gig right now. If that's reflective of the kid's judgement it's no wonder Bill wasn't considering him for the long term.
It may not be true but more than one report is coming out.
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Bill's catching a lot of flack for this, so if it really was on 21 I'd say Bill is doing him a solid by taking the brunt of the criticism. He's better off going into free agency as a guy that got abandoned by his team than somebody whose shitty judgement got him benched for the super bowl.
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The Butler thing is weird but really I don't he would have made much of a difference. He's not I would consider to be a shut-down corner.
Thoughts on the hit on Cooks? Personally I'd like to those plays to be reviewed and automatically flagged as a personal foul.
I think they explained during the broadcast something to the effect that because he had come down with the ball and started making "football moves" he was considered a runner rather than a receiver by that point and so the hit was completely legal.
Yeah, I remember that. There have been so many changes on this sort of thing in recent years that I'm not sure what the actual rule is. But I thought that, although they were correct that the "defenseless receiver" rule doesn't apply once he becomes a runner, you STILL can't go helmet-to-helmet without getting flagged. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that. That was one of the few non-calls that bugged me at the time.
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It was helmet-to-helmet only because Cooks changed direction at the last second.
And since somebody else brought up the lack of PI flags, the OPI by Gronk on his Hail Mary route was as egregious as you can get. He shoved the DB with both hands as hard as humanly possible. There’s gotta be a gif of that somewhere. If he had made that catch and then they converted the 2pt conversion, that would have been very controversial.
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One stop does not make a game, and you can't have one side playing perfect, the other side playing alright, and call it a near perfect game, it wasn't. If their defense played as well as their offense the Eagles would have won by 20+ points.
I didn't say it was a perfect GAME, I said the Eagles played a perfect game. Not the same thing. The Eagles had one chance to win, and they planned it, implemented it, and executed on it. Anything else, and they would have lost. They almost DID still lose.
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To me, the interesting storyline now is: What does Philly do at the QB position? Wentz was having a potential regular season MVP season. But Foles stepped up BIG TIME in the playoffs, played solid in ALL the playoff games, and is now a Super Bowl MVP. What do you do with that as a coaching staff? I'm especially curious about that in light of the 49ers' situation a few years ago, and have played the "what if" game about what happens if the 49ers don't fumble two punts in the NFCCG against the Giants and go on to win the Super Bowl against the Pats. If Alex Smith takes them to a Super Bowl and wins it, and then he gets injured the next season as happened, could Harbaugh have still dealt him off to KC in favor of Kaep? Interesting dilemma.
Unrelated to that, but while we're on the '9ers--Even though power rankings don't hold any water anyway, and it is far too early to predict ANYTHING about next season, this made me rage just a little bit:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/NFLpowerrankingsx180204/2018-nfl-power-rankings-way-too-early-offseason-preview
Specifically, I wasn't happy to see the '9ers ranked below the Rams and Seattle after Garoppolo's performance. And to see the Chiefs ahead of them, even though they will not have Smith next year, sent me over the edge. :lol
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It was helmet-to-helmet only because Cooks changed direction at the last second.
And since somebody else brought up the lack of PI flags, the OPI by Gronk on his Hail Mary route was as egregious as you can get. He shoved the DB with both hands as hard as humanly possible. There’s gotta be a gif of that somewhere. If he had made that catch and then they converted the 2pt conversion, that would have been very controversial.
It's a well known fact that nobody will ever be called for OPI on a hail mary. It just doesn't happen.
Also, it makes no difference if the player moves into a H2H hit or not. It's always the defensive player's responsibility. Wes Welker's short ass made a career out of getting knocked out because his head was always where most player's shoulders are.
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Bill's catching a lot of flack for this, so if it really was on 21 I'd say Bill is doing him a solid by taking the brunt of the criticism. He's better off going into free agency as a guy that got abandoned by his team than somebody whose shitty judgement got him benched for the super bowl.
Yeah, for real, and Malcolm is not exactly acting like the repentant, crying about how "the Patriots gave up on him". If it was "weed/cops", he's lucky Bill didn't cut him on the spot and explain exactly why. If true, that kid is getting a gift and he doesn't seem to realize it.
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Bill's catching a lot of flack for this, so if it really was on 21 I'd say Bill is doing him a solid by taking the brunt of the criticism. He's better off going into free agency as a guy that got abandoned by his team than somebody whose shitty judgement got him benched for the super bowl.
Yeah, for real, and Malcolm is not exactly acting like the repentant, crying about how "the Patriots gave up on him". If it was "weed/cops", he's lucky Bill didn't cut him on the spot and explain exactly why. If true, that kid is getting a gift and he doesn't seem to realize it.
Yea. It seems because Bill isn't talking about it, the assumption from many is that this is more of something that Bill is annoyed at, but if he's covering for him because of legal issues, Malcolm really owes Bill and should be ashamed of himself for putting himself in a spot to not play. Bill did the right thing IMO if this is true.
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Bill's catching a lot of flack for this, so if it really was on 21 I'd say Bill is doing him a solid by taking the brunt of the criticism. He's better off going into free agency as a guy that got abandoned by his team than somebody whose shitty judgement got him benched for the super bowl.
Yeah, for real, and Malcolm is not exactly acting like the repentant, crying about how "the Patriots gave up on him". If it was "weed/cops", he's lucky Bill didn't cut him on the spot and explain exactly why. If true, that kid is getting a gift and he doesn't seem to realize it.
I don't know about this, guys. Butler not playing was a major development in this game. How is Butler balling on the sidelines, suspended for the SB, benefitting him in any way. Any team that interviews him if FA WILL get the real story.
Curfew/weed gets you suspended for the SB?? For a quarter, sure. But Belichick did his team a disservice by not playing Butler. This game was decided on a handful of plays, and Butler couldn't have made a difference on a 3rd down play here and there? Belichick has been fucking with Butler all year. Could they have still lost had Butler played every snap? Sure. But as great as Philly played, I am one who believes that Butler not playing was the biggest difference for me.
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3. Only ONE punt all game? Holy crap!
Sometimes in these types of offensive shootout games, the team that does make a stop (the punt isn't the stop I'm referring to) near the end, is the team that wins. The strip sack and the 4th down TD (one being a stop, the other preventing a stop) were the plays that got the Eagles the win.
Honestly, when I checked the box score this morning, it didn't come as a surprise to me that there was only one punt. Obviously, there were two reasons for that: (1) with the exception of the two drives that ended in turnovers, the two offenses advanced the ball far enough that all of the offensive series ended either with touchdowns or attempted field goals; and (2) there were at least three attempted fourth down conversions (all of which were made, I think -- I don't remember either team turning the ball over on downs). Both teams' defenses played pretty soft, which probably contributed to the dearth of penalties.
Yea, for a lip sync, it was odd that the audio was so messed up. I was not a fan of the halftime show. Sure, he's a great dancer and performer, but other than some cool lighting, I just found it very boring. The girls surrounding him were also ugly, I didn't get that. The seflie at the end was lame, the Prince part wasn't really interesting (and we discuss here about the Dio hologram :lol)
Rodney Peete said on his Los Angeles radio show earlier today that he knows people with connections to Prince (e.g., Sheila E.) and that those people were "disgusted" with what Timberlake did with the duet with a video of Prince.
The Butler thing is weird but really I don't he would have made much of a difference. He's not I would consider to be a shut-down corner.
Thoughts on the hit on Cooks? Personally I'd like to those plays to be reviewed and automatically flagged as a personal foul.
I think they explained during the broadcast something to the effect that because he had come down with the ball and started making "football moves" he was considered a runner rather than a receiver by that point and so the hit was completely legal.
There's no question that's what happened. Cooks caught the ball and started running in circles. He had established himself as a runner and was no longer a "defenseless receiver." Stupid move by Cooks and an absolutely clean hit. If the NFL were to start penalizing that sort of thing, then they might as well just change over to flag football.
But I thought that, although they were correct that the "defenseless receiver" rule doesn't apply once he becomes a runner, you STILL can't go helmet-to-helmet without getting flagged. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that. That was one of the few non-calls that bugged me at the time.
Nope. Helmet to helmet is ok when it's a runner versus tackler situation -- even if it's the quarterback. Helmet to helmet is a penalty when the QB is in the pocket or it's a "defenseless receiver" (the sort of block that the Bengals receiver threw at Ryan Shazier might also fall within the helmet thing, but I think it's a slightly different rule).
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I would disagree on the helmet to helmet. It wasn't bang, bang. He was lining Cooks up from far away but those are the breaks. Calls will always be missed for both teams.
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Bill's catching a lot of flack for this, so if it really was on 21 I'd say Bill is doing him a solid by taking the brunt of the criticism. He's better off going into free agency as a guy that got abandoned by his team than somebody whose shitty judgement got him benched for the super bowl.
Yeah, for real, and Malcolm is not exactly acting like the repentant, crying about how "the Patriots gave up on him". If it was "weed/cops", he's lucky Bill didn't cut him on the spot and explain exactly why. If true, that kid is getting a gift and he doesn't seem to realize it.
I don't know about this, guys. Butler not playing was a major development in this game. How is Butler balling on the sidelines, suspended for the SB, benefitting him in any way. Any team that interviews him if FA WILL get the real story.
Curfew/weed gets you suspended for the SB?? For a quarter, sure. But Belichick did his team a disservice by not playing Butler. This game was decided on a handful of plays, and Butler couldn't have made a difference on a 3rd down play here and there? Belichick has been fucking with Butler all year. Could they have still lost had Butler played every snap? Sure. But as great as Philly played, I am one who believes that Butler not playing was the biggest difference for me.
I certainly agree that Butler's absence was the biggest difference. That's a very different game with him in there. You gotta maintain discipline, though. Everybody who's played for BB knows that. It's ancient knowledge that if you miss practice or a curfew you don't play that week. What does it say to the rest of the team when you start cutting players slack? "These guys are above the rules. The rest of you aren't." Belichick just has it easier than most coaches because 12 is a choir boy. He doesn't have to face that decision of whether or not to discipline his MVP. Also, in the unconfirmed rumors there was mention of a meltdown with the coaches afterward. Weed probably didn't matter. Missing curfew matters a lot to Bill. A meltdown will get you shipped off to Cleveland. Factor in missing the team flight, as well. Combine arriving late with missing curfew to get high and you've got a payer with a real discipline problem (assuming any of this is true, of course).
I honestly don't know what BB's problem with 21 is. It certainly looks like he's been down on the guy for a while now. Some weird Parcells holdover, I suspect. LT is snorting coke off of some cheerleaders tits on the 20 yard line and he gets heaped with praise. Simms goes 30/35-4-0 and gets harangued for 2 hours about everything he did wrong. Butler seems to have landed on the shitty side of that deal.
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I get the maintaining discipline thing, but whether one blames Butler (appropriately) or Belichick for Butler missing the game, you just can't jeopardize the SB because of it. If it's Gronk, he doesn't sit the entire game. Apparently, Butler is an ass, but the team needed him and Belichick should've come up with a different plan.
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Collinsworth is normally good, but last night was embarrassing. The Ertz play was obviously a catch, yet he wouldn't shut up about how it was just like the Jesse James play when, in fact, it wasn't at all. Ertz caught the ball, became a runner, and only went to the ground because the defender took his legs out. Once the ball broken the plane, it was a TD and the play was over. Easy call.
Poor Carson Wentz. He gets hurt and the team wins the Super Bowl anyway, and now he has the pressure of almost having to win one as the starter pretty quickly or he will be viewed as a product of a great team.
That first TD to Jeffery reminded me of why I loved watching him when he first broke into the league. The way he goes up and makes catches is a sight to see.
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Collinsworth is normally good, but last night was embarrassing. The Ertz play was obviously a catch, yet he wouldn't shut up about how it was just like the Jesse James play when, in fact, it wasn't at all. Ertz caught the ball, became a runner, and only went to the ground because the defender took his legs out. Once the ball broken the plane, it was a TD and the play was over. Easy call.
That's right.
I don't doubt Collinsworth's knowledge, but I cannot fucking listen to him. That voice! He always sounds like he's whining.
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That, and his man crush on Tom Brady was borderline illegal. I swear, if someone had told him Brady wanted him to suck his balls, Collinsworth would have dropped to his knees and said, "Left or right one first, Mr. Brady." :lol :lol
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Not sure I see anything wrong with that. :lol
Brady was fantastic last night. They would've lost 51-3 without him.
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I lost track of how many receivers he completed passes to that literally had no one within 5-10 yards, but yes, he played really well.
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Brady was fantastic last night. They would've lost 51-3 without him.
Wow... he's so good, he makes the Pats defense better too!
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I lost track of how many receivers he completed passes to that literally had no one within 5-10 yards, but yes, he played really well.
The Pats' O-Line, which had been shaky all year, played its best game.
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It's amazing...it's been like five years since Andy Reid left the Eagles, and yet I still had trouble shaking the expectation that their playoff run was going to end in an epic clock-mismanagement meltdown. That's some deep-seated trauma right there! As i saw it put recently, the only time Andy Reid feels a sense of urgency is 30 minutes after he finishes a taco platter...
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It's amazing...it's been like five years since Andy Reid left the Eagles, and yet I still had trouble shaking the expectation that their playoff run was going to end in an epic clock-mismanagement meltdown. That's some deep-seated trauma right there! As i saw it put recently, the only time Andy Reid feels a sense of urgency is 30 minutes after he finishes a taco platter...
WOW....it didn't occur to me until just now as I read this post how profoundly satisfying it must have been for Eagles fans to see them make those really ballsy calls instead of playing it safe.
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On a side note, watching a game with a room full of people who only care about the last numbers of the score is tiresome as fuck. I get that it's a way for people who aren't into football to having something to do, but it's really annoying when everybody's shouting for that 72 yard field goal, or "no! Don't score here, wait until the next quarter!" There's a reason I don't like superbowl parties. Some of us are actually interested in the game itself.
Agree 100%!!! I stopped going to my buddies SB parties for that reason. All they cared about were the Pools and all the gambling talk really spoiled the experience for me and my wife.
As far as the game I thought it was AWESOME! The Eagles showed how to play the Pats.... balls to the walls aggressive! So happy for Nick Foles.
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Title should be changed to Patriots Dynasty ENDED!
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Title should be changed to Patriots Dynasty ENDED!
They are favorites by Vegas to win next year. I wouldn't go that far just yet.