2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty

[King Postwhore]

I agree.  Now the talk is on pro football talk Florio had a piece saying how much is Belichick worth if the Raiders QB Carr got 25 million a year?

In the old days when ProFootballTalk was NFL talk before it was bought by NBC a lot of florio's insights was from Agents in speculation is this is from Belichick's agent. Now that both coordinators I'll be coming head coaches and he traded Garoppolo Belichick has Kraft over a barrel of a gun.

[TAC]

I think there might be something - there's smoke, there's fire - but I also think that these guys have been able to keep eyes on the prize for so long that it's going to be - dare I say - a nothingburger.   

We haven't mentioned it, but in my opinion, the biggest issue is likely Tom's reluctance to give up the ghost.   Belichick has always been a "make the change before you have to" kind of coach.  He's never really driven a player into the ground, and traded up before that happened.   I wonder if there's not a "anyone is fair game... except Brady" mentality on the team?    

Just getting back to this.

This is the entire crux of the situation. The bolded part is where Kraft steps in. It is believed that Belichick wanted to keep Garrappolo until the end of the season and make a decision at that point. If you believe the Wickersham article, and I do, Brady got antsy and got Kraft involved.

Belichick picked Jimmy G's landing spot, and the return, or lack thereof, was a middle finger to Kraft. As in, "he's gone, you happy now."

[Stadler]

I'm a follow-the-money kind of guy. I think money talks and bullshit walks. So this kind of thing almost always gives me pause:
www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/someone-reportedly-placed-a-multi-million-dollar-bet-on-the-eagles-to-win-super-bowl-lii/ar-AAv8FNq?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp

What does he/she know that I don't?  Then again, what does the book know that I don't (if it is taking that bet)?   

[bosk1]

That's just such a stupid thing to do and such a stupid risk to take that I kind of hope whoever did that loses just on principle.  Anyone dumb enough to put millions on a football game deserves to lose it, in my book.  I'm kinda doubly rooting for the Pats now. 

[El Barto]

If he's taking the Eagles to cover the spread it's a pretty safe bet. The Atlanta SB was the first time they didn't win by 3 or 4 points (6) or lose. Their super bowls are always close games. If he's betting on them to win, and it doesn't sound like they know for sure yet, it's a fool's bet. Not because the Eagles can't win, but because football is way to flaky to bet on.

The bigger point, though, is that we have no idea what 10 million means to this guy. I seriously doubt it's half his wealth or anything. More likely it's akin to one of us betting $500 or something.

Super Bowl XXXIX: Patriots 24, Eagles 21
Super Bowl XLVI: Giants 21, Patriots 17
Super Bowl XXXVIII: Patriots 32, Panthers 29
Super Bowl XXXVI: Patriots 20, Rams 17
Super Bowl XLII: Giants 17, Patriots 14
Super Bowl XLIX: Patriots 28, Seahawks 24
Super Bowl LI: Patriots 34, Falcons 28 (OT)

Eagles +5 sounds like a pretty good bet to me.

[cramx3]

That article says

The referenced bettor here, by the way, picked all six 2017 World Series games correctly before cashing out with $14 million prior to Game 7. So they have a track record of success.

Sounds like a professional gambler who has plenty of money to gamble.  And yea, betting the spread on the Eagles isn't bad bet at -5 since historically these games are close with the Pats.  However, I think it's possible this is the first time the Pats win easily.

[cramx3]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22213241/vince-mcmahon-gimmick-free-xfl-return-2020

[DragonAttack]

snore

btw, going back to NE-J'ville.....

Pats had the fewest penalties since the one against the Ravens in 2011.  Ravens had six, for only 33 yards...Pats, one for five.  Quite a bit was made of the scoreboard not being in sync with the chains at the end, when Cundiff came out and hooked the FG to force OT.  As a Raven fan, the ST coach (and kicker) should have called time out, got their sh*t together, taken a breath, and then gone to OT.  btw...if Lee Evans doesn't drop/have the pass in the endzone knocked out of his hands......Ravens go to two straight SBs.

Last week:  two pass interferences called on the Jags, one obvious, the other you get the call 90% of the time at home.  The hit on Gronk:  obvious penalty.  The delay of game:  obvious.  So......that leaves TWO penalties against them, to the one of NE.

oh, and, btw.....I've watched the final 3rd down conversion run by the Patriots:  J'ville could have had two linemen called for 'illegal hands to the face'.

This from a 'bystander' (who hates NE, but respects the hell out of them).

[El Barto]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22213241/vince-mcmahon-gimmick-free-xfl-return-2020

If you just do the three things NFL fans dislike the most you'll suck in some viewers.

If it looks like a catch it's a catch. Instant replay is always wrong.
All players, fans, and concessionaires must stand, salute, and if possible tear up during the national anthem. 
Blows to the head, holding, and pass interference will no longer be flagged.

The problem is that it will still be a bunch of people not good enough to play at the pro level. College players have something to play for. NFL players are at the top of the game. These will just be guys who already had their shot and aren't good enough or aren't young enough to play at a high level. It'll fail, again, for that reason.

[cramx3]

Yea I really don't get what he's trying to do.  He says the timing of the NFL's issues isn't the reasoning, but I can't think of any other reason to try this again at this time especially when he says things like all players will stand and the game will be shorter (direct shots at what people complain about the NFL).  He says it won't be a developmental league, but that's exactly what it will be because there's no reason for a player to choose to play the XFL over the NFL.  I can't believe he is spending 100 million of his own money.  He's got balls, I'll give him that, but what a waste of money.  I do think the idea of payment based upon winning is interesting though.  That won't make the league special, but is an interesting way to deal with how players are paid and gives some more incentive than the payoff money players already make.  Also, all teams are owned by him.  Might as well be VXL.  I like Vince overall, but this is so stupid IMO.

[King Postwhore]

Just watched "Tom vs. Time" part 1 on Facebook.  It's an infomercial but I dug it.

[Cool Chris]

"What would you do if you could reimagine the game of football?" Vince asks. I think Barto has is right. And boobies. Their biggest failing, aside from not giving teams enough time to practice before the season started, was thumbing their noses at the NFL and its fans. Even the slightest football fan out there follows the NFL and never wanted an alternative. If they embraced those fans and said "Hey here's something to watch in the off-season" they might have had better luck.

Anyway, I hate the two weeks before the SB. And I probably post that every single year at this time.

[El Barto]

Yea I really don't get what he's trying to do.  He says the timing of the NFL's issues isn't the reasoning, but I can't think of any other reason to try this again at this time especially when he says things like all players will stand and the game will be shorter (direct shots at what people complain about the NFL).  He says it won't be a developmental league, but that's exactly what it will be because there's no reason for a player to choose to play the XFL over the NFL.  I can't believe he is spending 100 million of his own money.  He's got balls, I'll give him that, but what a waste of money.  I do think the idea of payment based upon winning is interesting though.  That won't make the league special, but is an interesting way to deal with how players are paid and gives some more incentive than the payoff money players already make.  Also, all teams are owned by him.  Might as well be VXL.  I like Vince overall, but this is so stupid IMO.

That is interesting, but not hugely important to the product. The will to win is why people compete. If you and I agree to play a round of darts in some pub somewhere we're both going to try like hell to win. Are we going to try harder if somebody's bankrolling us? It'll add pressure but not incentive. It'll do two things here. It'll prompt people to take extra risks, either avoiding or laying on a hit. And it'll cause discord in the lockerroom. How is some washed up arena league player going to react when he loses a paycheck because an idiot safety takes out two defenders and allows a game-winning touchdown? Neither of these will improve the level of competition.

[TAC]

I couldn't be the least bit interested. I never even paid any attention to the XFL.

[TAC]

Just watched "Tom vs. Time" part 1 on Facebook.  It's an infomercial but I dug it.

Joe, is there a link to this? Where the F do I find it?

[King Postwhore]

Facebook. You are shit out of luck old man.

[TAC]

Facebook. You are shit out of luck old man.

Tim vs Time!

[King Postwhore]

Seriously.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Regarding the XFL, I'll watch it (it is football after all and I enjoy watching the sport), and I'm honestly interested in the idea of a simplified game (because too many games in the NFL these days are decided by a referee's interpretation of the complicated rulebook instead of by the players on the field and the coaches on the sideline), but I can't see this being hugely successful. It might reach the same level of success as the Arena Football League, but expecting it to be anything more than that is probably asking too much.

The big thing is that the XFL proves to be sustainable this time around, while it won't be competition to the NFL (let's face it, the NFL is an unstoppable machine), it will be an alternative for fans to watch alongside the NFL and more importantly, will be a place for guys to get work and maybe get a second chance to prove themselves. While it won't be a global juggernaut like the NFL or like Vince's primary money maker WWE, the XFL could prove to be a good thing.

[Stadler]

Other than calling "bullshit" on the idea that Vince isn't timing this against the ills facing the NFL - he'd be even more of a knucklehead if he DIDN'T - I'm kind of parked with el Barto on this. It's minor league football, and isn't going to be that different than what we've seen before, it's just going to pander to a different subset of the viewing public.   (Though I do think they're going to run afoul on the idea that a more violent game is going to be a long-term winner; we still haven't seen the whole "CTE" thing peak). 

[cramx3]

And it'll cause discord in the lockerroom. How is some washed up arena league player going to react when he loses a paycheck because an idiot safety takes out two defenders and allows a game-winning touchdown? Neither of these will improve the level of competition.

Yea, didn't even think about this.  He could be trying to add a reality TV spin to this, who knows.  Vince knows a lot about creating drama. 

Vince also said they won't have any players with a criminal background.  Which I think also is directed at the NFL.  Also lowers his talent pool. 

What I do think could work for them is broadcasting rights.  Right now, with everyone buying content for streaming, Vince may be able to sell this to a Netflix for example.  Think outside the box on how to broadcast his games to a new generation of people who aren't watching TV traditionally.  Vince talked about this, along with also using different angles and views (also something the XFL did before).  Either way, I think it's a dumb idea overall but there's way he could possibly make it work on a minor scale.

[kaos2900]

A little to early to judge in my opinion. Will it be minor league? Yes, but that's okay. All of the other big sports have a minor league. Focus this is smaller markets and use it as a development opportunity. I think he should have changed the name though. The original XFL was the polar opposite of what is being presented now. From a safety perspective maybe there will be some innovations out of this. And being in the Winter and Spring won't hurt considering that is a black hole for sport right now. I'd say the chances of long term success is 50/50 right now.

[mikeyd23]

Other than calling "bullshit" on the idea that Vince isn't timing this against the ills facing the NFL - he'd be even more of a knucklehead if he DIDN'T - I'm kind of parked with el Barto on this. It's minor league football, and isn't going to be that different than what we've seen before, it's just going to pander to a different subset of the viewing public.   (Though I do think they're going to run afoul on the idea that a more violent game is going to be a long-term winner; we still haven't seen the whole "CTE" thing peak).

He's clearly leveraging the overly public issues the NFL has had the last couple years, this season in particular, to start this up. I agree with you, if there was ever a time for Vince to this, it's now. I actually think there are several simple things he could do to attract a lot of fans. Scroll back through this thread and see some of the major complaints a lot of us have had with the NFL as of late, if he can address those common complaints, this thing might have a shot.

Like someone else mentioned though, the struggle will be the talent level. Are they going to be able to find guys good enough to make the games interesting? That will probably be the big determining factor as to whether Vince gets more than one season out of this venture.

[Dream Team]

Thought this was interesting, unless you somehow believe that Belichick is the only coach in the league who teaches discipline and avoiding penalties:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2018/1/29/16943670/new-england-patriots-penalties-edge

[El Barto]

Five points that tell us nothing other than the Patriots gets penalized less. While reading it something did occur to me, though. Isn't it likely that when a team goes up against the vaunted Patriots in must-win football they're more inclined to takes chances? I know players like to use the mantras this is just another game, and we're not afraid of them, but the reality is that they know they're facing a great team with a long history of winning big games. I think that definitely factors into their play, and desperation causes mistakes (and often times fantastic play, as well).

[Stadler]

Five points that tell us nothing other than the Patriots gets penalized less. While reading it something did occur to me, though. Isn't it likely that when a team goes up against the vaunted Patriots in must-win football they're more inclined to takes chances? I know players like to use the mantras this is just another game, and we're not afraid of them, but the reality is that they know they're facing a great team with a long history of winning big games. I think that definitely factors into their play, and desperation causes mistakes (and often times fantastic play, as well).

Sort of a related tangent to that, when you're playing against people that are "better" than you - be it natural ability, or better coached - you tend to find yourself in situations where you lose discipline.  This is why there are so many holding penalties late in plays and as plays breakdown.  You can only sustain the "plan" so long before it becomes a street fight.   You get beat, and you grab a jersey, choosing between "gimme touchdown" and "first down at the 25".    You get beat, and you take the holding penalty, choosing between "ten yards, repeat the down" and "my QB takes a helmet to the sternum".    Or, you're looking to make your name, choosing to take "15 yards unsportsmanlike" over "Gronk thinks I'm a pussy".   

This phenomenon is less obvious in football than it is in hockey and basketball, where you tend to get isolated one-on-one's more often. 

[cramx3]

 

[King Postwhore]

Classic.

[jingle.boy]

Do you think he practices these answers before hand, or it just naturally comes off the top of his head like that?

[Stadler]

He's a natural born speaker.   

[kaos2900]

So Smith Traded to the Redskins. Good trade for the Chiefs getting a solid CB and 3rd round draft pick. I wonder if Cousins ends up in Buffalo or Denver.

[bosk1]

The Chiefs are now dead to me.

[Cool Chris]

Big Hall of Fame class yesterday, including the best guard to ever play the game.

Who ya got today? I got Pats 28 Eagles 20.

And whatcha eatin'? I got some pork shoulder slow-cooking with some root beer and liquid smoke, to be served with a spicy ketchup glaze.

[King Postwhore]

Pats, 27- 24.


Big party, everybody bringing dishes.

[dparrott]

SNL skit Patriots Vs. Eagles in 1775   
https://youtu.be/fcziw7helVg