DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[gborland]

Maybe we could have a compromise where one show on each tour has a static setlist, and the rest of the shows have rotating setlists. Then the no-surprises-please brigade could go to the static show and everyone would be happy. Would that work?

[King Postwhore]

Bands don't do that. Either the have a standard setlist or the have a rotating setlist.

[EPIC Outro]

If someone sees Phantom on Broadway and then sees it in Boston, there is actually a very good chance the shows will be quite different due to the touring version having extensive changes to many aspects of the show.

I personally love rotating setlists, and no amount of 'perfection' in live presentation over the last 13 years has surpassed the 'anything can happen!' thrill of the MP era.

Except for the shows where DT decided to cover another band's entire album live. If I went in expecting a DT show and got an hour of "Made in Japan" I would not be pleased (though I know many other folks would be thrilled).

[Stadler]

If someone sees Phantom on Broadway and then sees it in Boston, there is actually a very good chance the shows will be quite different due to the touring version having extensive changes to many aspects of the show.

I personally love rotating setlists, and no amount of 'perfection' in live presentation over the last 13 years has surpassed the 'anything can happen!' thrill of the MP era.

Except for the shows where DT decided to cover another band's entire album live. If I went in expecting a DT show and got an hour of "Made in Japan" I would not be pleased (though I know many other folks would be thrilled).

See, I would be beside myself, because I would have seen something that only happened a handful of times, and I could (possibly) say I was on the live album.   Plus I love Deep Purple. 

I think that's the part that is hard to reconcile.   Each show has 4,000 people more or less.  If they are doing something that some like and some don't, they need to attract one more person that likes it than they lose because they don't like it, you know?  So one person's crappy setlist is hopefully someone else's dream setlist. 

If you have a static setlist, then sure, there is some number of people that will go because it's DT, some number that will go because they are playing "x" song, and some number that will not go because they are playing "x" song or are not playing "y" song.   If you rotate, you have that same number of people that will go because they're playing "x" song, and hopefully you have both some number going because they MIGHT play "x" song and some number going because they MIGHT play "y" song.   At the end of the day we hope that ALL people going are going to at least have a very good time - if not transcendent - because it's a band they like or love. 

[Setlist Scotty]

Bands don't do that. Either the have a standard setlist or the have a rotating setlist.

I think you may need to restart your sarcasm radar. How could a band possibly have a "static" setlist for a single show, and rotating setlists for the rest of them on the same tour? 

[Lonk]

Bands don't do that. Either the have a standard setlist or the have a rotating setlist.

I think you may need to restart your sarcasm radar. How could a band possibly have a "static" setlist for a single show, and rotating setlists for the rest of them on the same tour? 

He was still sleeping when he wrote that lol

[gzarruk]

I really hope that the lapse in LNF Archives releases is due to him revamping the series, just because I really love it when artists dedicate to giving fans a ton of old live material to dig through.

I, too, hope things start moving again for the LNFA soon. Maybe Mike P will handle these things again, but judging by their recent Q&As and interviews, they don't seem to have worked out too many details on anything (I say they don't seem to, not that they haven't). But even before MP rejoined the band, he had already contributed to "several" new releases, out of which we only have one so far. They still have plenty of material to (re)release.

What I'm wondering now is how are those going to be moving forward? Whether MP gets control over those or not, I imagine he isn't super thrilled about how they've been handling the series without him (no liner notes, some era-incorrect band photos, etc). The thing is, they already re-released most of the original YJR catalog with the new packaging, so any kind of revamp will make the previous ones look weird.

[Stadler]

I really hope that the lapse in LNF Archives releases is due to him revamping the series, just because I really love it when artists dedicate to giving fans a ton of old live material to dig through.

I, too, hope things start moving again for the LNFA soon. Maybe Mike P will handle these things again, but judging by their recent Q&As and interviews, they don't seem to have worked out too many details on anything (I say they don't seem to, not that they haven't). But even before MP rejoined the band, he had already contributed to "several" new releases, out of which we only have one so far. They still have plenty of material to (re)release.

What I'm wondering now is how are those going to be moving forward? Whether MP gets control over those or not, I imagine he isn't super thrilled about how they've been handling the series without him (no liner notes, some era-incorrect band photos, etc). The thing is, they already re-released most of the original YJR catalog with the new packaging, so any kind of revamp will make the previous ones look weird.

Obviously I'm not in the conversation with the band on this, but I think you can keep the general format - LNFA, the kaleidoscope artwork - and yet up the game a bit.   Keep the general framework but add COMPLETE shows instead of bits and pieces on separate releases and never actually completing the show.  Add a page of liner notes (for fuck's sake, the DATE of the show is kind of important, no?).  Add a quick note as to the circumstances.   That's low-hanging fruit and needs no big reprogramming of the general format.

[Setlist Scotty]

I really hope that the lapse in LNF Archives releases is due to him revamping the series, just because I really love it when artists dedicate to giving fans a ton of old live material to dig through.

I, too, hope things start moving again for the LNFA soon. Maybe Mike P will handle these things again, but judging by their recent Q&As and interviews, they don't seem to have worked out too many details on anything (I say they don't seem to, not that they haven't). But even before MP rejoined the band, he had already contributed to "several" new releases, out of which we only have one so far. They still have plenty of material to (re)release.

What I'm wondering now is how are those going to be moving forward? Whether MP gets control over those or not, I imagine he isn't super thrilled about how they've been handling the series without him (no liner notes, some era-incorrect band photos, etc). The thing is, they already re-released most of the original YJR catalog with the new packaging, so any kind of revamp will make the previous ones look weird.

Obviously I'm not in the conversation with the band on this, but I think you can keep the general format - LNFA, the kaleidoscope artwork - and yet up the game a bit.   Keep the general framework but add COMPLETE shows instead of bits and pieces on separate releases and never actually completing the show.  Add a page of liner notes (for fuck's sake, the DATE of the show is kind of important, no?).  Add a quick note as to the circumstances.   That's low-hanging fruit and needs no big reprogramming of the general format.

Agreed and my gut feeling (as in pure speculation) is that is basically what is going to happen going forward even if the kaleidoscope artwork and the digipaks are awful. There should be better/more information that is accurate, with period correct photos, etc.

[gzarruk]

I really hope that the lapse in LNF Archives releases is due to him revamping the series, just because I really love it when artists dedicate to giving fans a ton of old live material to dig through.

I, too, hope things start moving again for the LNFA soon. Maybe Mike P will handle these things again, but judging by their recent Q&As and interviews, they don't seem to have worked out too many details on anything (I say they don't seem to, not that they haven't). But even before MP rejoined the band, he had already contributed to "several" new releases, out of which we only have one so far. They still have plenty of material to (re)release.

What I'm wondering now is how are those going to be moving forward? Whether MP gets control over those or not, I imagine he isn't super thrilled about how they've been handling the series without him (no liner notes, some era-incorrect band photos, etc). The thing is, they already re-released most of the original YJR catalog with the new packaging, so any kind of revamp will make the previous ones look weird.

Obviously I'm not in the conversation with the band on this, but I think you can keep the general format - LNFA, the kaleidoscope artwork - and yet up the game a bit.   Keep the general framework but add COMPLETE shows instead of bits and pieces on separate releases and never actually completing the show.  Add a page of liner notes (for fuck's sake, the DATE of the show is kind of important, no?).  Add a quick note as to the circumstances.   That's low-hanging fruit and needs no big reprogramming of the general format.

Agreed and my gut feeling (as in pure speculation) is that is basically what is going to happen going forward even if the kaleidoscope artwork and the digipaks are awful. There should be better/more information that is accurate, with period correct photos, etc.

I agree on everything with both of you here, except that I really don't mind the kaleidoscope artwork. Some have been awful, yes (Awake demos, I'm looking at you), but most of them have been fine IMO.

[Samsara]

My .02

I think rotating setlists, particularly since DT has a lot of songs, and a lot of LONG songs, is very much the right way to go. Also, in the internet age, setlists are often spoiled very quickly. Rotating keeps things fresh for the band, fresh for people who are able to see multiple shows, and keeps things a little bit of a surprise even for people that keep track of what is being played each night. All in all, I find it to be a very smart move and hope DT does indeed do it again.

If DT typically plays 15 songs in a headline set, then learn 30. And choose what to play the morning of the show, and use soundcheck to refresh. For musicians of DT's caliber, that's not really a big ask. And I would think fans would really appreciate the band's willingness to do so.

My favorite current band, Alter Bridge, swapped a few songs in and out of their set over the last tour and it was very much appreciated. I miss the times DT was doing that. I'd welcome a return to them.

[cramx3]

My .02

I think rotating setlists, particularly since DT has a lot of songs, and a lot of LONG songs, is very much the right way to go. Also, in the internet age, setlists are often spoiled very quickly. Rotating keeps things fresh for the band, fresh for people who are able to see multiple shows, and keeps things a little bit of a surprise even for people that keep track of what is being played each night. All in all, I find it to be a very smart move and hope DT does indeed do it again.

If DT typically plays 15 songs in a headline set, then learn 30. And choose what to play the morning of the show, and use soundcheck to refresh. For musicians of DT's caliber, that's not really a big ask. And I would think fans would really appreciate the band's willingness to do so.

My favorite current band, Alter Bridge, swapped a few songs in and out of their set over the last tour and it was very much appreciated. I miss the times DT was doing that. I'd welcome a return to them.

As another example, one of my favorite bands 311 is well known for rotating setlists... until more recently.  They still do different sets each night, but the possible songs went from like 100 to 40 so while each night is still different, they setlists have mostly become very samey over the last 5 years.  I'm fairly certain (since I'm a fan in their community as well) that this route has lead to a lot of the hardcore fans not going to the shows anymore.  Even myself, it's not a desireable concert if there's 0% chance of seeing something different.  They built their fanbase on "anything can happen during a show" and they've been that way for sooo long that the fans expect it now.  DT kind of had this same issue.  The fans expect the unexpected at shows and when that intrigue goes away, so does some of the fandom.

[bosk1]

Re: the LNFA releases:  The problem I personally have with the artwork is that I can't keep them straight in my mind.  The other albums all have distinct artwork.  The LNFA releases are just variations of the same thing.  Even if I listened to them regularly, I'm not sure I could keep them straight. 

I am really hoping Mike gets involved with these releases.  I know he has said he still has a ton of stuff in his archives, some of which was just about ready to go at the time of his departure.  Not sure whether his involvement will result in any changes to the packaging or to the release schedule (there may be obstacles in place that we aren't privy to), but at least there will be a lot of good material coming out.

[hefdaddy42]

I am so much in favor of rotating setlists and surprise that if they went back to that, and I showed up for my show and got my 12-15 least favorite DT songs played, I would be ecstatic.

And no, I'm not bullshitting.

[TAC]

I am so much in favor of rotating setlists and surprise that if they went back to that, and I showed up for my show and got my 12-15 least favorite DT songs played, I would be ecstatic.

And no, I'm not bullshitting.

Even Raw Dog?

[cramx3]

I am so much in favor of rotating setlists and surprise that if they went back to that, and I showed up for my show and got my 12-15 least favorite DT songs played, I would be ecstatic.

And no, I'm not bullshitting.

Yeah, same, including Raw Dog (i mean, I actually kind of like that one so I don't think it would be played)

[bosk1]

I don't see Raw Dog being realistic.  But as far as songs that are realistic, they played one that is in my bottom 5, and it's such a rarity that I don't think it's coming back (and the rendition they did was quite good, and I'm glad I saw it, despite hating the album version of the song).  That leaves a realistic bottom 4 that, if they played anything from that, I wouldn't be thrilled, but I've been to PLENTY of concerts where a song I didn't like was played.  It's fine.  It's a small part of the set.  I can get over not being thrilled for a few minutes.  Not a big deal at all. 

(of those bottom 4, I only see one as being likely to show up in future sets because, for some strange reason I cannot fathom, the band seems like like that one)

[hefdaddy42]

I am so much in favor of rotating setlists and surprise that if they went back to that, and I showed up for my show and got my 12-15 least favorite DT songs played, I would be ecstatic.

And no, I'm not bullshitting.

Even Raw Dog?

Yes, even Raw Dog.

[DTwwbwMP]

I'm of the mindset that MP will:
1) Do what's best for "most" fans as far as setlists go (band approval of course)
2) Ramp up the SO LACKING energy of the live shows
3) Completely take over the bootleg series

What he won't do is rock the boat. If certain songs are "off the table" to be performed live (*cough*looking at JLB*cough), he will go with the flow. I feel he has definitely mellowed as he has gotten older and KNOWS that he is no longer the IPSO-FACTO ruler of the DT universe.

[Dedalus]

I spent some time away from here and found four pages discussing rotating setlists. Holy shit.

Considering that for my current reality the simple fact of going to see a show by a band like DT has become an EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE experience, I now think a thousand times before making the decision. And the setlist matters.

Therefore, knowing in advance what the setlist is ultimately helps me decide whether to spend the obscene amount of money required or not.

To be quite honest, currently I wouldn't pay to have an experience like the one I had back in 2008 with DT, for example.
​

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Seeing any show that isn't in a smoky Jazz bar is expensive these day.

DT ticket prices are still reasonable compared to say Metallica.

[porcacultor]

I spent some time away from here and found four pages discussing rotating setlists. Holy shit.

Considering that for my current reality the simple fact of going to see a show by a band like DT has become an EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE experience, I now think a thousand times before making the decision. And the setlist matters.

Therefore, knowing in advance what the setlist is ultimately helps me decide whether to spend the obscene amount of money required or not.

To be quite honest, currently I wouldn't pay to have an experience like the one I had back in 2008 with DT, for example.
​

Wow, man... if I could have an experience like the one I had back in 2008 with DT, I'd be very proud and excited to put some money into it. That was one of my favorite concert experiences, for sure. I get that one man's trash is another man's treasure, but as fortune has it you brought up a very treasured memory of mine 

Speaking personally, I don't think a specific setlist is able to get me to go to a show or skip it. Other factors feel more important: is it a venue where I can have a modicum of comfort? What's the price like? How much have I seen this band before?

I saw Iron Maiden playing last year. Arguably the most "boring" set I ever saw them play, given it was one of the Legacy of the Beast shows... but I was just out of the (harsher version of the) pandemic and raring for live music, the price was fair, and it all made sense. Worth it. Now they've just confirmed a show in my neck of the woods next year and everything indicates they're playing a fantastic setlist with plenty of favorites – but I might be just too tired of stadium shows at this point, and the price is a mood killer too.

If setlists were the deal breaker, I would've missed out on the previous one and held out for this one, somehow. That doesn't seem to be how things work (for me).

[gzarruk]

Static setlist or not, I'm sure I won't see them live because they never ever come here

[wolfking]

Yeah, I mean......I'm still waiting for them to reschedule their cancelled 2020 shows here in Australia.....or whenever the hell it was. 

[Dedalus]

Wow, man... if I could have an experience like the one I had back in 2008 with DT, I'd be very proud and excited to put some money into it. That was one of my favorite concert experiences, for sure. I get that one man's trash is another man's treasure, but as fortune has it you brought up a very treasured memory of mine 

Speaking personally, I don't think a specific setlist is able to get me to go to a show or skip it. Other factors feel more important: is it a venue where I can have a modicum of comfort? What's the price like? How much have I seen this band before?

I saw Iron Maiden playing last year. Arguably the most "boring" set I ever saw them play, given it was one of the Legacy of the Beast shows... but I was just out of the (harsher version of the) pandemic and raring for live music, the price was fair, and it all made sense. Worth it. Now they've just confirmed a show in my neck of the woods next year and everything indicates they're playing a fantastic setlist with plenty of favorites – but I might be just too tired of stadium shows at this point, and the price is a mood killer too.

If setlists were the deal breaker, I would've missed out on the previous one and held out for this one, somehow. That doesn't seem to be how things work (for me).

All these other factors are relevant. For example, I wanted to see Paul McCartney recently and I didn't go because of the price. I simply couldn't commit half of my monthly salary to tickets + travel + hotel.

Attending shows here is getting very complicated, for those who are not rich. Therefore, everything is relevant in decision making.

The Iron Maiden example works for me too. I would like to watch The Future Past tour because of the setlist. Another Maiden show, no thanks, I'll save my money.

Therefore, I will hardly leave home with all the huge expenses to see DT when they come to South America again. The only exception would be if the setlist was filled with my favorites. That's why knowing the setlist in advance became essential for me, especially for a band I've seen more than once.

[Madman Shepherd]

One time I bought DT tickets without knowing the setlist. They ended up playing The Astonishing in full. I left halfway through the show.

I like to know what I'm getting myself into.

[Lonk]

One time I bought DT tickets without knowing the setlist. They ended up playing The Astonishing in full. I left halfway through the show.

I like to know what I'm getting myself into.

I mean, that show was advertised as TA in full. So the setlist was already announced even before the first show lol

[cramx3]

One time I bought DT tickets without knowing the setlist. They ended up playing The Astonishing in full. I left halfway through the show.

I like to know what I'm getting myself into.

I mean, that show was advertised as TA in full. So the setlist was already announced even before the first show lol

Yeah, not the best example, but I also saw lots of people leave at intermission at the second show I saw on that tour 

I spent some time away from here and found four pages discussing rotating setlists. Holy shit.

Considering that for my current reality the simple fact of going to see a show by a band like DT has become an EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE experience, I now think a thousand times before making the decision. And the setlist matters.

Therefore, knowing in advance what the setlist is ultimately helps me decide whether to spend the obscene amount of money required or not.

To be quite honest, currently I wouldn't pay to have an experience like the one I had back in 2008 with DT, for example.

Care to explain what was so bad at that show?  My 2008 memories were solid for seeing DT as it was my first times.

[Madman Shepherd]

One time I bought DT tickets without knowing the setlist. They ended up playing The Astonishing in full. I left halfway through the show.

I like to know what I'm getting myself into.

I mean, that show was advertised as TA in full. So the setlist was already announced even before the first show lol

I don't know if it was advertised as that the minute it went on sale, which is when I got the tickets. I know for a fact I hadn't heard the album then so I guess I was surprised at how much I disliked it.

[Madman Shepherd]

Just went back and looked.

Tour announced on December 17th. Bought tickets the next day. It was announced as the album in full but not that they would *only* play The Astonishing.

As the date grew closer and it was clear, and I remember debating with my friend if we should even go.

[Setlist Scotty]

Therefore, I will hardly leave home with all the huge expenses to see DT when they come to South America again. The only exception would be if the setlist was filled with my favorites. That's why knowing the setlist in advance became essential for me, especially for a band I've seen more than once.

Unless they change up the order in which they tour different parts of the world, I think you'll be able to get a pretty good idea of what will be played by the time they hit South America. It may not feature all your favorite tracks that are in the master setlist, but the chances of at least some of your favorites not being included is pretty low.
 
 

One time I bought DT tickets without knowing the setlist. They ended up playing The Astonishing in full. I left halfway through the show.

I like to know what I'm getting myself into.

Aren't you a long time fan? When was the first time you saw DT? Didn't you ever see them with MP before he left? Other than the times they opened for Yes and Maiden, DT's setlists were never static from 2002-2010.

[Lonk]

Just went back and looked.

Tour announced on December 17th. Bought tickets the next day. It was announced as the album in full but not that they would *only* play The Astonishing.

As the date grew closer and it was clear, and I remember debating with my friend if we should even go.

That makes sense. Yeah, while I knew it was the album in full but not sure if they would do anything else for the encore.

I bumped into my manager at the time at the show I went to, and he told me he fell asleep halfway through  I enjoyed the whole show, but don't blame people for leaving

[Madman Shepherd]

Just went back and looked.

Tour announced on December 17th. Bought tickets the next day. It was announced as the album in full but not that they would *only* play The Astonishing.

As the date grew closer and it was clear, and I remember debating with my friend if we should even go.

That makes sense. Yeah, while I knew it was the album in full but not sure if they would do anything else for the encore.

I bumped into my manager at the time at the show I went to, and he told me he fell asleep halfway through  I enjoyed the whole show, but don't blame people for leaving

If I recall, they did add 3 songs half way through that leg or maybe it was the next. Definitely not enough for me to go again.

[Dedalus]

Care to explain what was so bad at that show?  My 2008 memories were solid for seeing DT as it was my first times.

Just the setlist wasn't very good. And at my show it was especially worse. Bad luck with the rotation.

In 2008 it was ok, it wasn't that expensive, it was worth the experience. But today with current prices, there is no chance of paying for a show like that.

Unless they change up the order in which they tour different parts of the world, I think you'll be able to get a pretty good idea of what will be played by the time they hit South America. It may not feature all your favorite tracks that are in the master setlist, but the chances of at least some of your favorites not being included is pretty low.

That is true. If the fixed part of the setlist is, let's say, stellar, it might be worth it.

It will depend on which songs are fixed, what percentage of the setlist is fixed, and which songs are suitable for rotation.

We'll see... although I probably won't go. 

[Setlist Scotty]

Just went back and looked.

Tour announced on December 17th. Bought tickets the next day. It was announced as the album in full but not that they would *only* play The Astonishing.

As the date grew closer and it was clear, and I remember debating with my friend if we should even go.

That makes sense. Yeah, while I knew it was the album in full but not sure if they would do anything else for the encore.

I bumped into my manager at the time at the show I went to, and he told me he fell asleep halfway through  I enjoyed the whole show, but don't blame people for leaving

If I recall, they did add 3 songs half way through that leg or maybe it was the next. Definitely not enough for me to go again.

It was actually a little more than halfway through the final leg of the tour.  They dropped 5 songs from TA to make room for a 3 song encore of AIA, TSCO and PMU which have all been played to death, so yeah, not anything worth going to see. What's particularly ironic about that is how earlier in the tour, I remember JP making comments in interviews about how they were just performing TA and that was it. IIRC, he compared it to going to se a Broadway play or something, saying you wouldn't expect the performers to come back out to play something completely unrelated afterward (ignoring the fact that they did just that when they did the tour for SFaM in 2000). But it seems like it was a last ditch effort to try to bump up lagging ticket sales, which admittedly were partly due to the second North American leg of the tour being poorly planned and often times playing the same city or nearby to where they played on the first leg of the tour.

But Madman Shepherd, when and where did you see DT previous to the TA tour?