Author Topic: LithoJazzoSphere Roulette V1: Variety & Reciprocity (Post-Roulette Playlist)  (Read 119597 times)

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Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Here are the early impressions filled out.  Comparisons will either be tonight or tomorrow. 

Round 11 Early Impressions:

1:  Elite - Mr. Bungle - Now I remember what the inside of a squirrel's brain feels like. 

2:  Tomislav95 - Paramore - This could be the best thing you've sent me, with an artist that has more range than I realized. 

3:  Buddyhunter1 - Riverside - Hmm, maybe the second time's (third time?) the charm. 

4:  Sacul - Kate Bush - This is on the minimalistic and repetitive side of what I like, but it's so haunting and beautiful that it might overcome it. 

5:  Nachtmerrie - Mastodon - I don't know if this drastically moves the needle on my overall preexisting opinion of them, but the drumming is still just as stellar as I expected it would be. 

6:  senecadawg2 - Agalloch - This band used to constantly be compared to one of my absolute favorite bands, and I still don't really see it, but they're decent enough on their own merits. 

7:  ariich - Borknagar - Memorability is going to be the question, but the sound and elements are there.  I may have been sleeping on this band. 

8:  Evermind - Thrice - I didn't realize that this band had this sound in them.  Let's see if it blossoms on later plays. 

9:  Vmadera00 - Mastodon - Unlike an earlier round, this could turn out to be a photo finish. 

10:  TAC - Alice Cooper - I have the feeling this might translate better in a more theatrical live environment than it does on album, but it is certainly a fascinating historical exercise. 

11:  Crow - Intronaut - This might be the second best thing you've sent me.  As I had anticipated, the bass playing is a highlight. 

12:  HOF - Big Big Train - I was worried that this would be too overly simple and happy for me at first, but the way it builds is impressive and gradually becomes more to my taste.

13:  twosuitsluke - NOFX - Yeah, so this is the miscreant little brother of a style I casually like. 

14:  Stadler - KISS - I'm probably unlikely to ever truly love this group, but this is a solid batch of songs that's probably better than what most have heard from them. 

15:  soupytwist - Yeah Yeah Yeahs - This might be a bit too quirky for my taste, but maybe it'll grow on me. 

16:   Lethean - Angra - I wish the first song had the production quality of the second, but I may have been sleeping on this band too. 

17:  Puppies_On_Acid - Enslaved - Here's the other band that is even more frequently compared to one of my absolute favorites, and while they're alright, I wish I could splice the two of them together into one band, but I guess that would actually just create a different version of the band they're compared to. 

18:  SoundscapeMN - Kevin Gilbert - This is some of the most unusual and difficult to categorize of the accessible rock/pop I've heard, which could be its strength. 

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Vmadera has evolved into Lonk

Offline senecadawg2

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6:  senecadawg2 - Agalloch - This band used to constantly be compared to one of my absolute favorite bands, and I still don't really see it

I'm not sure I see it either, based on the bands you've rated most highly on your RYM account. Who we talking about?
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Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Opeth. 

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Opeth.

They're more of a ripoff of the first Ulver album, except better. :lol
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agalloch and opeth are nothing alike, what  :lol
whoever was telling you that was lying

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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It also was a better reference a couple decades ago before the Cascadian scene exploded and there were far more and more comparable choices, but I still hear the comparison a surprising amount. 

But even now they're still in the first couple dozen results for each other for similar artists on Metal-Archives and Last.fm, for example. 

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I’m lost.  :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Opeth, Agalloch, and folky extreme metal. 

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YYY's to quirky, fair enough - I'd dismissed that impression as you'd enjoyed the far more quirkier (imo) Katzenjammer in an earlier round!  Let's hope it has grown on you  :D

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Like any other musical attribute, quirkiness has a wide variety and range, and there are various sweet spots along the spectrum of it. 

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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This has overall been a pretty good round, certainly much better than the past one, which is hardly surprising given the artificial limitations on both of them.  Next time I run a roulette I could easily see doing a version of this round again, though I will probably wind up investigating a few of the bands on the list that didn't get picked after the roulette anyway, but even in the process of this one I came up with a number of bands I probably should have had on the list, and I'm sure I'll think of even more later. 

For the comparisons, to complicate things a bit, they are based on the raw scores before the style bonuses of last round, which in a few cases makes things murkier. 

Round 11 Comparisons:

Nachtmerrie:  Svalbard -> Mastodon:  v
Evermind:  Black Peaks -> Thrice:  v
HOF:  Ske -> Big Big Train:  =?
Buddyhunter1:  Sleepytime Gorilla Museum -> Riverside:  ^
Lethean:  Solefald -> Angra:  =?
Elite:  Ornette Coleman -> Mr. Bungle:  v
SoundscapeMN:  Mutyumu -> Kevin Gilbert:  ^
soupytwist:  Manic Street Preachers -> Yeah Yeah Yeahs:  v
ariich:  Ocean Colour Scene -> Borknagar:  ^
Stadler:  Hank Williams Jr. -> KISS: v
TAC:  Sigh -> Alice Cooper:  ^
Crow:  Actor|Observer -> Intronaut:  ^
twosuitsluke:  Gallows -> NOFX:  =?
Puppies_On_Acid:  The Fall of Troy -> Enslaved:  ^
senecadawg2:  mewithoutYou -> Agalloch:  ^
Vmadera00:  Cro-Mags -> Mastodon:  ^
Tomislav95:  Okervill River -> Paramore:  ^
Sacul:  dreamcrusher -> Kate Bush:  ^

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#1 here I come!!! :corn
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Oof.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

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green, baby, green!

...i would disagree in this case but hey it works in my favor!!

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After how bad I did, I don't think a green means much  :lol
Vmadera has evolved into Lonk

Offline senecadawg2

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agalloch and opeth are nothing alike, what  :lol
whoever was telling you that was lying
Opeth.

They're more of a ripoff of the first Ulver album, except better. :lol

As a big fan of both bands, I guess you could say "Agalloch is to BM what Opeth is to death metal" or vice versa. But yeah, generally I'm not sure the comparison does justice to either of them.
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Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Yeah, maybe you could say that in ways, though it misses a lot from both ends.  I've actually already gotten into a bit more of it in the writeups already.  Probably easily a thread's worth of discussion there to be had at some point.  It probably already exists in various places here and elsewhere. 

Speaking of the writeups, most are already written now, but I have a few more to crank out, and then editing and getting all the other ducks in a row and such in the next few days. 

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A thread's worth of discussion about Agalloch sounds good to me. :corn
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Yeah, maybe you could say that in ways, though it misses a lot from both ends.  I've actually already gotten into a bit more of it in the writeups already.  Probably easily a thread's worth of discussion there to be had at some point.  It probably already exists in various places here and elsewhere. 

Speaking of the writeups, most are already written now, but I have a few more to crank out, and then editing and getting all the other ducks in a row and such in the next few days.

...next few DAYS??
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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I know you get paid to post here, but unfortunately, I don't.  :p

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Pretty much everything is done, I just need to double check everything on fresh eyes.  Results should be up tomorrow evening. 

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Was there a time limit on Round 12?
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Hey Stadler, your PM inbox is full.
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Offline TAC

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Was there a time limit on Round 12?

Three weeks apparently. ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Was there a time limit on Round 12?

20 minutes, as many songs as you can fit.  One artist, 1989 or earlier. 

Also 20 for round 13, except it's completely open, like rounds 3, 6, and 9 were.

And I'll finalize the EP guidelines in the next few days so people can get those going if they haven't already. 

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I have not done any prep on my EP. Might name the EP ‘winging it’, all songs related to blagging it/flying by the seat of my pants.

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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A Winger EP, you say?  Sounds like the one to beat!

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A Winger EP, you say?  Sounds like the one to beat!
Yeah, the one to beat up!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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A Winger EP, you say?  Sounds like the one to beat!
Yeah, the one to beat up!
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Hey Stadler, your PM inbox is full.
Derek Sherinian probably stands 10 feet away from the urinal, shoots from downtown, and announces loudly that he's making history.
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would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Wow, so limiting the round selection largely to bands I already liked to a limited extent or had heard promising things about has done wonders for the overall scores.  This is the highest scoring round yet.  Of course, that means that the competition was stiffer, so some entries that would have placed a bit higher in previous rounds are lower in comparison for this one, but that's just how it goes. 

It was amusing to uncover some unexpected connections between some of these artists, ncluding one between Kevin Gilbert and Big Big Train that's too somber to fit in this section.  But we have Thrice and then Borknagar's album Winter Thrice.  Angra covered Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights".  Hayley Williams of Paramore and Fat Mike of NOFX appear to have some beef between them.  And of course we have dueling Mastodons and the third appearance of Mariusz Duda of Riverside.  Alice Cooper also had an album called DaDa, close enough, right?  And various other easter eggs I've scattered about in the writeups.  But enough frivolous divertissement for now...

Oh, and I'm still a bit undecided on how to include the final summaries.  For now I've kept them all, and they seem like they could be useful for the longer writeups to get the essence across without needing to read a whole essay, but they seem a bit redundant and perfunctory for the shorter writeups.  I'll have to ponder it more, or see if anyone has any further opinions on the matter. 

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twosuitsluke - NOFX - "Green Corn", "Punk Guy", "Seeing Double at the Triple Rock", "I Wanna Be An Alcoholic", "Murder the Government", "Dinosaurs Will Die", "Monosyllabic Girl", "The Man I Killed", "The Separation of Church and Skate", "F**k the Kids"

Early Impression - "Yeah, so this is the miscreant little brother of a style I casually like."

Final Summary:

There is a nice energetic vibe instrumentally to some of the songs that is not too dissimilar to other skate punk I like, but the songs are too weighted towards silliness, and Fat Mike's vocals are a struggle for me. 

Details:

Alright, so skate punk was really my first big inroads into attempting to get into some punk bands.  As I foreshadowed last round in my preliminary thoughts on -core styles, I kind of had an adversarial relationship with punk in high school, but did have a few guilty pleasures of the pop-punk that was popular on the radio back in the late 90s/early 00s, particularly The Offspring and Green Day, I suppose the former of which is both pop-punk and skate punk depending upon the release/song.  But it was plowing through albums from Bad Religion, Pennywise, Rancid, and Millencolin in particular that really convinced me that there was validity to the style, with an irrepressible and infectious energy that really couldn't be properly duplicated in any other genre.  But for whatever reason even though I was well-aware of the name NOFX (there was even one guy who used them as his alias in an online video game I played a lot back then), I just never got around to checking them out. 

Now, at their core, they have many of the same attributes that other skate punk bands do, with the high-tempo, kinetic feel and a certain catchiness to them.  On my first listen I was a bit worried, because "Green Corn" initially struck me as sounding more amateur and unpolished production-wise than some other similar bands.  I think I've grown much more acclimated to it over time, because it doesn't really bug me anymore.  And most of the others are fine in terms of production.  "Seeing Double at the Triple Rock" in particular has the punchiest and meatiest sound to it, which makes me wonder if Wolves in Wolves' Clothing has a consistent production style like that song, or if it varies across the album.  If it's the former, I suspect it could be the best album to dip into at some point and see if any other tracks stand out. 

One somewhat complicated issue with this set of songs is that we probably have different goals in checking out bands.  There are eight different albums represented here, which I suppose in one sense gives a brief snapshot of a broader array of their discography.  But to achieve that, so many of these tracks are quite short, and while punk has always leaned towards shorter song lengths, some of these are really more of skits and interludes than they are songs, particular the sub-1:00 ones.  Perhaps this works to convey NOFX's musical personality, although it seems hard to miss it in their songs at any length, but it just makes them a bit harder to get into than the still brief, but more substantial tracks.  "F%~@&$*#!" the Kids" is basically the Napalm Death "You Suffer" of punk. 

I have to wonder if they'd have come across slightly better by cutting out the shorter pieces for another track or two like "Seeing Double", "Dinosaurs Will Die", and "The Separation of Church and Skate".  Those are just more complete as songs and I have a greater chance of revisiting them later on than the micro-songs, which are one-offs that I honestly will probably never listen to again once this round is over. 

What really holds everything back for me though is Fat Mike's vocals.  Like thrash metal, punk-adjacent bands seem to have one of the most eclectic sets of unusual vocalists that you dislike, learn to tolerate, or some even love because they're unique and have a lot of character.  I imagine for you it's probably the latter, but I'm much closer to the former, and I'd need someone more like say, Greg Graffin, for it to really work.  Although, I must admit that the occasional harmony vocal bit works better than the solo lines, such as at 0:56 in "Green Corn". 

I'm also generally not that into humor in music, and that seems to be a major part of their shtick.  I think the closest something like this comes to working for me is Devin Townsend's Punky Brüster project, which I kind of ignore the narrative aspect of, and his voice works better for.  I imagine part of the fun of the NOFX experience is their live shows (I heard they suck, and they're getting even worse at them!), and I watched some of these songs being played live, and I get the feeling the stage banter and spontaneity in the evolving lyrics adds to the appeal for some people. 

Of course, there is a fair amount that does appeal to me throughout these songs though.  "Seeing Double" has an excellent primary riff.  "The Separation" has a neat almost surf-punk one driving it.  "Dinosaurs" has that fun bass break right near the ending.  "The Separation" has some tasty cymbal work at 1:46.  Shortly after it has a cool guitar solo, as does "Green Corn". 

I think a band like this (or even, say, KGLW) illustrates a fundamental difference in what the two of us are drawn to in music.  You seem to place a much higher priority on "whoa, check this out, dude" novelty, and music that's mostly about fun, good times party vibes.  I don't mind a bit of music like this on occasion, but I think I just have much less of a consistent appetite for it than you seem to. 

Obviously you can correct me if you think I'm mischaracterizing this, it's just my perception of what I've been increasingly noticing over time and why certain music seems to resonate with you a lot more than it does with me.  I'm more than happy to continue checking out bands like these, and every now and then something will hit (Seatbelts from an earlier round is one example from your submissions, or Katzenjammer from soupy), though I think they're generally more likely to continue to be the exception to the rule.  But I suspect you're at the point in the roulette where you're just sending whatever feels the most fun and exciting to you in the moment, and that's cool too.  A well-balanced roulette participant pool has all kinds of different types of entries to keep things fresh. 

Score:  6.75/10

---

Elite - Mr. Bungle - "Carousel", "The Air-Conditioned Nightmare", "Ars Moriendi"

Early Impression - "Now I remember what the inside of a squirrel's brain feels like."

Final Summary:

My enduring feeling about them has been upheld, that while they're a very talented group of musicians with a lot of interesting ideas, the way they're mashed together is just too frantic and chaotic for me. 

Details:

So Mr. Bungle has always been my go-to example of experimentation going a bit too far, with them even appearing in the OP and a few of my earlier writeups.  But it's honestly been such a long time since I've actually listened to them that I suppose it was time to reevaluate them.  I've dipped into a variety of Patton's projects at various points and haven't really been into them for the most part, the best of them being Peeping Tom, which has some really great tracks. 

There's certainly lots of fun to be had scattered about.  The central theme of "Carousel" fits in well with all the third wave ska that was popular in the 90s that I listened to quite a bit, with the horns, funky guitar work and such.  The Beach Boys-esque vocalizations on "The Air-Conditioned Nightmare" are kind of cool. 

The central problem is that this is really the start of all the genre salad bands.  I'm sure it had been tried before by someone, but all of the Estradaspheres and Secret Chiefs 3s and such I believe were directly inspired (and some members might even have some contributions to the California tracks if I recall correctly) by Mr. Bungle.  It's an entertaining idea initially, but I find that the novelty wears off quickly, and it becomes like the audio version of changing the TV channel every couple seconds.  "Ars Moriendi" is the worst in this regard.  It has some tantalizing moments that remind me of Bulgarian wedding music like Ivo Papasov and others, but the abrupt transitions between unrelated sections makes Dream Theater's worst tendencies in that regard seem quite tame. 

It has such a disjointed feel to it (intentionally) that I just find it fatiguing to listen to for that long.  It seems like they take a lot of musical ideas that are kind of cool on their own with the variety of style and instrumentation, put 50 of them on scraps of paper in a hat, draw them at random, and that's the song. 

The other issue is that Patton is such a bizarre vocalist, that he has moments of brilliance (I love how he holds out "suicide" and "comfortable" in the section at 1:39 in "The Air-Conditioned Nightmare"), but then so many other moments where he's just trying to be outlandish for the sake of it (the retching at 3:45 in "Carousel" is particularly annoying).  From my recollection it's toned down from what he does with say, Fantômas, but it's still just too over the top, all over the place, and just plain wacky for me to want to hear it more frequently than the rare occasion when I'm in an unusual mood. 

Score:  6.75/10

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senecadawg2 - Agalloch - "Into the Painted Grey"

Early Impression - "This band used to constantly be compared to one of my absolute favorite bands, and I still don't really see it, but they're decent enough on their own merits."

Final Summary:

There is much to enjoy melodically and compositionally, but the less refined production and especially the thin guitar tones fail to boost this enough above other atmospheric black metal. 

Details:

So as I teased earlier in the thread, for whatever reason this band often seems to come up as being an artist I should love, since like Opeth, they're also an extreme metal band that has a folky side to them.  I've listened to a few albums here and there, but nothing ever really stuck, and the comparison seemed very superficial, which is especially weird because I've heard many people make the comparison who otherwise seemed fairly well-versed in metal. 

Melodically, this is actually a fairly nice song.  I especially like the increasing and stacking layers of interwoven lines at 0:53, or that ascending/sliding line in the break at 5:33, which is reprised a bit later on as well.  The drums actually sounded quite good in the first couple seconds - I almost wondered if I'd accidentally started playing a Mastodon track instead.  But in the parts where they're blasting away, it gets a little mushy for my tastes. 

But my biggest beef is with the guitar tone.  I've sampled a lot of atmospheric black metal over the years, and the vast majority of it has this thin, weightless tone derived from Burzum.  This is on the better end of what I've heard, but it's still a bit too insubstantial for me.  Even compared to Opeth, this is a much lighter tone that just doesn't have the impact I want. 

It appears to be a very popular sound among black metal fans, and like with the vocals in post-hardcore in the previous round, it seems to be an area where I just don't see eye to eye with a lot of other people on the forum on.  It's much better timbre-wise than say, Space Odyssey from a few rounds ago, but it's still not really very close to the range I like.  My speed is more Behemoth, White Ward, or Batushka - chunkier and heavier.  Basically, black metal that retains atmosphere, but has a more crushing death metal-like timbre.  Or even a couple artists later in this roulette are a bit closer. 

And then the acoustic guitars here are barely present.  From my recollection they're more prominent in some of their other work, but the way they're mixed in this song is just as some filler on the side.  The production and mixing in general just seems to be in a no-man's land.  It's not as spacious and lush as some of the better ABM has the potential to be, nor does it have much punch to it.  So while I do mildly like the song compositionally, it just doesn't have the presentation to elevate it enough.  The Wikipedia entry for this album even says that in moving from Ashes Against The Grain to this album, they considered AATG "too polished, and opted for a more raw sound".  That's the kind of blurb that's always going to make me nervous about how an album is going to come across.   

Score:  7.25/10

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Stadler - KISS - "She", "Love 'Em and Leave 'Em", "Deuce", "Let Me Go, Rock 'N Roll"

Early Impression - "I'm probably unlikely to ever truly love this group, but this is a solid batch of songs that's probably better than what most have heard from them."

Final Summary:

Their brand of hard rock just isn't one that's going to be a favorite of mine, but "She" in particular is has a nice vibe to it, and I could see myself revisiting it on occasion. 

Details:

So KISS is one of those bands that is so omnipresent that it's kind of hard to avoid them even if you try.  I've heard a variety of their hits over the years, and have always been rather indifferent on them.  My parents even had Destroyer on vinyl for some reason, which is odd since neither of them like KISS.  I had one friend let me borrow a greatest hits of theirs at one point, and the only song that really stood out was "Detroit Rock City".  So it's been fascinating how polarizing they are, with some people railing on them as an embarrassment to music, and others (including a number of my favorite musicians) citing them as highly inspirational to their own careers. 

I've mostly just watched these squabbles with amusement, having no real dog in the fight, but maybe leaning slightly towards thinking they're more of an entertainment spectacle than a normal band.  My curiosity was piqued a bit though as I noticed that they seem to have a bit of a fanbase here, and a podcast I listen to occasionally did a deep dive on their discography, and one tune that stood out that they played was "Rocket Ride". 

So my initial impression of this set was mildly positive, and still is, though I think it's tapered off ever so slightly.  "She" is the best song of the lot, with a cool groove to it, some tasty riffs, and some splendid harmonizations in the guitar solo.  The others are perfectly serviceable classic hard rock, the kind of songs I wouldn't turn if they came up on the jukebox, but probably wouldn't put in a quarter for them either.  "Love 'Em Leave 'Em" does have a fun stuttering volume toggle trick at 2:57 though. 

Not really knowing them well enough to know who sings what, I watched a few live videos of these songs, and it seems like this is a pretty Gene-heavy selection.  I'm still more curious about their Stanley-centric tunes, as he's often been compared as something of a prototype for one of my favorite vocalists, Matt Barlow, who has even covered a few KISS songs, most notably "Creatures of the Night" and "God of Thunder" back when he was in Iced Earth, so those are two songs that I know much better as covers. 

It seems by reputation that Peter Criss is supposedly a poor drummer.  I don't hear anything particularly offensive in these songs, so I don't know if that's a live issue, something from other albums, or I think I've heard rumors of other players ghost writing/playing the drums on certain songs/albums. 

Score:  7.25/10

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soupytwist - Yeah Yeah Yeahs - "Zero", "Gold Lion", "Heads Will Roll", "Maps"

Early Impression - "This might be a bit too quirky for my taste, but maybe it'll grow on me."

Final Summary:

We might have another case of this not being quite the right group of songs, but it's also possible that the peculiarities of the vocal style make them seem less melodically-driven than would be ideal to elevate them above a moderate level of enjoyment. 

Details:

So this was one of those bands that stood out for having an odd name.  I always associated them with a far more obscure pop group The Yeah You's.  I never really got around to ever checking them out though, despite hearing various things about them over the years. 

I'm getting the feeling this is another group where I may only mildly-moderately like their sound as a whole, but there will be a couple random songs per album that will connect with me.  I suppose that's the case with a lot of genres and artists, but probably even more so with pop groups where the sound palette on each song is very different, and there isn't something consistent instrumentally to latch onto regardless of song like there often is with a lot of metal bands, for example. 

I suppose the draw for a lot of people for them is probably Karen O's delivery, but it's just not always hitting for me.  She seems more of a character/energy sort of vocalist, where a lot of her lines are only half-sung, and she pretty frequently has all of these idiosyncratic exclamations that she inserts.  Maybe over time they become more endearing as they certainly have more personality than average, but I just can't quite get there at this point.  It's probably a situation like with Gwen Stefani in No Doubt, who while I don't consider a particularly amazing vocalist, I've had over two and a half decades to be used to her quirks.  But most of my favorite vocalists are generally a bit more melodically-focused.  I'm not saying she's a poor vocalist, there just may have been an incongruity between my expectations and the type of vocals she employs. 

Instrumentally everything is ok, there's a wide variety of timbres that keeps things from ever feeling too stale, but there's just nothing in particular that really stands out.  The most interesting one is probably the synth lead at 2:19 in "Zero".  Or maybe the grindier lower-range sound at 2:58 in "Heads Will Roll", which is probably guitar but could possibly be a synth patch as well. 

And then we get into nitpicky things like how certain keys connect with me less frequently than others, and three of these are in ones that I typically find blander, although to the extent this facet of my tastes can be gamed, the people in the roulette that I know are musicians haven't even really been taking that much of an advantage of it anyway. 

I feel like in rereading this the score seems like it should be lower than the text reflects, but it's more that my expectations were probably a bit high and they couldn't quite meet them. 

Score:  7.5/10

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Evermind - Thrice - "Digging My Own Grave", "Daedalus", "Come All You Weary"

Early Impression - "I didn't realize that this band had this sound in them.  Let's see if it blossoms on later plays."

Final Summary:

Something of a theme of this round is uncovering artists who I've heard certain types of material from, but didn't realize that their discography was even more expansive, and they certainly fall into that category, where there could potentially be numerous styles that I like their dabblings with. 

Details:

Yeah, so my limited knowledge of this group, despite them being frequently mentioned for years and years, is vague memories of their more intense post-hardcore albums, and "Red Sky", which is more of an atmospheric alt rock tune with electronics.  This slab of songs is nothing like either of those.  These have a more relaxing feel, with an array of excellent auxiliary instrumentation with the melodica, piano, and acoustic guitar, and the Hammond organ in "Come All You Weary" sounds especially fantastic.  There are a lot of fun interactions between the two rhythm electric parts throughout "Daedalus", as well as some great bass playing to go with them, and some tasty tremolo guitar work in "Come All". 

That sort of multi-dimensionality tends to help a lot in improving my perception of bands, even when they are more focused on a different sound.  I think ultimately what this entry is going to do is make me revisit the louder Thrice albums and see if they're more along the lines of Black Peaks in terms of post-hardcore that appeals more to me because of vocals I don't mind as much, or even like.  The potential seems to be there based on the climax for "Daedalus", for example. 

I'm sure this is a rookie mistake, but if you'd asked me beforehand whether the vocalist for them was Dustin Kensrue or Dallas Green, I'm not sure I could have beaten a coin flip, but now I know.  And if Borknagar has Winter Thrice, maybe this is Spring Thrice?  Naw, I got nothin'. 

Score:  7.75/10

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Puppies_On_Acid - Enslaved - "Roots of the Mountain", "The Watcher"

Early Impression - "Here's the Other band that is even more frequently compared to one of my absolute favorites, and while they're alright, I wish I could splice the two of them together into one band, but I guess that would actually just create a different version of the band they're compared to."

Final Summary:

I'm happy when bands blossom over the course of a round for me, and this turns out to be another example, as "Roots of the Mountain" really delivers the goods with a plethora of engaging components and makes me think this is yet another band I've been overlooking. 

Details:

So Enslaved is sometimes called "the black metal Opeth", and I don't entirely see that comparison either, but they are probably slightly closer at least than Agalloch is, due to the proggier nature of some of their material, and having a full-time keyboard player these days.  I've heard a number of their albums (probably including a few others that I didn't get around to rating on RYM), and I've liked them, but haven't found anything I've really loved yet.  I'm still not entirely there, but I think I'm definitely inching towards it.  And even nearing the end of the round, I feel like it's grown on me even more and moved up slightly again, it's certainly a bit of a grower. 

I find "The Watcher" a bit bland, though decent enough, but "Roots of the Mountain" is quite an intriguing tune.  It has all the right ingredients, with a fairly full production, a better guitar tone, a good contrast of vocal styles (including the choral-esque bit at 4:27), and all kinds of spices here and there.  The chorus especially is quite an earworm, and is a perfect melodic juxtaposition with the more traditionally black metal-sounding intro riff that is repeated in various spots.  The solo at 2:49 is killer, and the tremolo-picked passage over acoustic guitar at 6:49 is just gorgeous.  There's also the delicious bass break at 4:13. 

The keyboards could probably even be a bit more prominent than they are (and perhaps other tracks highlight them more), as I like the Mellotron flute break at 1:42, but the Mellotron strings at the very end are briefer than I'd like. 

I'm actually no longer sure exactly what I had in mind with the early impression in terms of how you would combine them with Agalloch to achieve something more similar to Opeth.  It might be that from my memory Agalloch tends to have more overt folky acoustic passages on other songs than the one sent in this round, and while there's a bit of acoustic here, it's mostly just a bit of background strumming.  Enslaved has more of the other elements though, and I could certainly see more material of theirs appealing to me if it's at all like this. 

I used to consider bands like these "Banger-core", because Sam Dunn's Banger TV Youtube channel tended to prominently feature bands like Enslaved, Mastodon, and a few others, and I historically haven't quite gotten them, but one by one I'm having to walk back my opinions on some of them.  I'll be thrilled if at some point I run out of bands I've considered to be overrated, because that just means more music I like. 

Score:  8/10

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TAC - Alice Cooper - "Halo of Flies", "Pass the Gun Around"

Early Impression - "I have the feeling this might translate better in a more theatrical live environment than it does on album, but it is certainly a fascinating historical exercise."

Final Summary:

Numerous plays brought unexpected depth out of these tracks, revealing additional layers to Alice that I was previously unaware of, piquing my interest in further exploration. 

Details:

This is the funny thing about first impressions, and for me the importance of numerous plays and immersion.  KISS had a more immediate somewhat positive impression and I was more skeptical of how well Alice might do, with these cuts seeming perhaps too experimental, but the immediacy of KISS slipped a bit over time and I've gotten into these songs a bit more.  There's a lot more depth, nuance, and replayability to this set. 

As I've mentioned a number of times, I think there's generally a lower ceiling for most artists in this era for me, but greater familiarity with it is pushing him up closer towards the top of that ceiling.  And I've mentioned, I believe via PMs, that I know a few of Alice's hits, but I don't think I've ever made time for any full-length releases, so this is definitely a side of him that I didn't realize he was capable of.  I think I also forgot to mention that I'm quite familiar with "Dead Babies", but from the Iced Earth cover of it.  Actually, I guess that's another connection between artists, as I noted in the KISS writeup that they've covered them as well. 

I think the image of Alice as a shock rocker who was more about image than substance was already long shattered by his Wayne's World guest appearance, but even then, I definitely didn't realize he was capable of a proto-prog metal tune (really still hard rock, but you can see where it was heading given the period, and a live version I watched with more juice on the guitars definitely amps it up some), and a sort of art rock opera.  I'm definitely intrigued to check more of his catalog out at some point, I could see some of it growing on me even more with additional context for it. 

That lengthy solo in "Pass the Gun Around" is easily the highlight here, it's such a fantastic use of slathering delay and reverb over it, which gives it a spaciousness you don't hear often enough with relatively harder acts.  The whole song actually isn't too far off from a bit of an Elton John or Queen feel to it, though I don't have the advantage of decades of familiarity with it like I do some of their material with that vibe, but it has still grown to have more appeal than I initially worried it might.  It's curious, I don't think of myself as liking rock operas, but I do like Ayreon, some of Savatage's works of that kind, Dirt Poor Robins from earlier in the roulette has that element at times, so maybe I need to reconsider that notion. 

Additionally, "Halo of Flies" even has that sort of proto-Iron Maiden galloped rhythm at 2:36, and a lot of interesting active bass work.  He also unexpectedly sneaks in a snippet of the Sound of Music "My Favorite Things" melody at 2:10. 

Score:  8/10

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Lethean - Angra - "The Shaman", "Upper Levels"

Early Impression - "I wish the first song had the production quality of the second, but I may have been sleeping on this band too."

Final Summary:

It seems this could be a band that I might enjoy their later releases more due to a sleeker production, but even the earlier track has noteworthy properties, making this another artist that look forward to hearing more from. 

Details:

Angra is another of those bands I've known about seemingly forever, but just never spent a lot of time with.  I'd heard Temple of Shadows, which was considered a classic, and enjoyed it, but was just never compelled to revisit it.  Even when their name kept popping back up with Aquilles Priester auditioning for DT and Kiko Loureiro taking the Megadeth co-guitar slot, I just never made the effort to investigate them further.  I'm kind of regretting that a bit, but hey, that's exactly why I'm having this round, because later is better than never. 

It's curious that aggregation sites seem to consider Holy Land, the album "The Shaman" is from, to be much better than Secret Garden, the originating album for "Upper Levels".  Perhaps it's an issue of consistency, but at least these particular songs go in the opposite order for me.  "The Shaman" is a nice enough song, I enjoy some of the hand percussion and auxiliary instrumentation in particular (the didgeridoo in the ending especially, I own one myself, but am awful at trying to play it), but the overall production feels really time-locked to the mid-90s, with some dated keyboard patches and a fairly weak guitar tone. 

"Upper Levels" on the other hand, just has a much richer feel to me, a higher-budget sound, meatier guitars, and still with some hand percussion and other intriguing components here and there.  I was kind of hoping one of these tracks would have Aquilles, as I've seen him live when he toured with Tony MacAlpine, plus the DT audition, and a few Youtube playthroughs here and there, but he seems to have been inbetween these eras.  No matter though, I can check out that material later, and his replacement is more than capable, with some quite piquant arrangements and great drum mixing, especially on the toms. 

Kiko's soloing is another highlight, as I hoped it would be based on everything I've heard from him before (and you sending him in an earlier round).  He really is a complete soloist, seamlessly going between some jazzy phrasing, blues licks, the shredding you expect in prog/power metal, and he's again especially adept with whammy dips, which I find quite addicting.  There is some fantastic bass work throughout as well, most notably in the intro of "Upper Levels" and at 4:06 inbetween the solos.  And I assume Alex Lifeson and Geddy Lee were given writing credit for that whole section at 4:36, the resemblance is kind of uncanny. 

Vocally they're nothing particularly notable, with a fairly conventional prog/power sort of vocal style.  I was surprised to learn that Fabio Lione of Rhapsody has been their vocalist for awhile now.  Rhapsody was actually one of the very first power metal bands I listened to, though they were never one of my favorites, and it's been so long and I've listened to so very little of them since then, which likely explains why I didn't make the connection at first.  That harmony section at 3:10 in "Upper Levels" is quite stunning though, I kind of hope they do that more often on other songs. 

Score:  8/10

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Sacul - Kate Bush - "Snowflake"

Early Impression - "This is on the minimalistic and repetitive side of what I like, but it's so haunting and beautiful that it might overcome it."

Final Summary:

This settles on just the right notes to be more entrancing than I worried it might be. 

Details:

It's interesting that if you look at who are often considered to be the most revered female singer-songwriters, you seem to get a generational split, with older generations mentioning perhaps Joni Mitchell, and with younger generations suggesting Björk, and sometimes Fiona Apple.  But the constant artist that both generations seem to adore is Kate, with her Stranger Things inclusion fairly recently giving her even more of a spotlight, but she was quite renowned even before then. 

She even has much cross-genre influence, with Angra from this round covering "Wuthering Heights", but what has most piqued my interest in investigating her material more is that Kingfisher Sky, one of my mystery song artists from round one, covered "The Man With the Child In His Eyes" awhile back, and just earlier this year did a whole tour filled with Kate Bush songs.  They released a professional teaser for the tour, which will hopefully turn into a DVD or at least a pro-shot Youtube video of it, since cellphone footage of the live shows doesn't really do the arrangements justice.  So I own and have heard a few of Kate's albums and am familiar with some of the hits, but I've never seemed to be able to quite get her work to click for me yet. 

Anyway, well, this one really had the potential to go off the rails.  I worry more about shorter submissions with room left for decent-sized songs.  This selection is quite sparse, with just a handful of motifs that are drawn out and alternated between.  If I didn't like these particular ones as much as I do, I could easily see this having done more poorly.  And also, it seems that the bulk of the vocals on this track are not delivered by Kate, but by her young son, so her contribution is primarily in the writing, the piano playing, and the refrain vocal.  But it does have such a hypnotic and magical feel to it that I can't help but feel pulled in.  Some of the piano voicings are quite elegant.  I wondered whether it was going to build up to a crescendo by the end, which never came, but I suppose not every song needs one. 

I'm certainly going to have to do more exploring of her discography outside of the roulette, but it suppose it does make the submission a success by threading the needle. 

Score:  8/10

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Nachtmerrie - Mastodon - "Black Tongue", "Toe To Toes","More Than I Could Chew"

Early Impression - "I don't know if this drastically moves the needle on my overall preexisting opinion of them, but the drumming is still just as stellar as I expected it would be."

Final Summary:

The likely unplanned coordination in two people sending me a different selection of songs from the same band seems to wind up helping both submissions, with me starting to feel I could get into this band more, with this particular set having a bit broader range of types of songs from them. 

Details:

So Mastodon is another of those bands that's been so ubiquitous in the metal landscape that it's kind of hard to avoid them even if you want to, to the point that I've long known the names and faces of all of the members even without really putting any effort into attempting to do so.  I've heard a number of their albums, but I've always been pretty lukewarm on them.  I remember Brann's fills really standing out on their early albums when I first heard them, but the sludgy sound just didn't appeal to me much at the time.  They also lean into the stoner metal angle, which is a genre I'm especially picky about, since much of it doesn't feel like it goes anywhere and you probably need to live up to the name of the genre to get full enjoyment out of it.  Fortunately this doesn't apply so much to Mastodon. 

They had gradually grown on me a bit over time, with "The Motherload" being the first song of theirs I actually have given a fair number of plays to, and then Hushed and Grim a couple years ago was the first full-length album of theirs that I liked more or less in full.  But even then, having given it a couple plays that year, I still haven't revisited it since then.  Well, so with you and Vmad giving me a double dose of Mastodon this round, I think it's been effective in getting me more into them than I was, and I'm starting to see more of what I think other people see in them.  Still easily their strongest attribute is Brann's playing.  I'm glad that he has playthrough videos of some of these songs and others, which helps to shade in some of the nuance of what he does.  The fluidity with which he changes subdivisions of rhythms in his fills is quite remarkable. 

I think one of the obstacles of getting into them earlier on was their vocal styles.  I knew that they had multiple lead vocalists, but didn't follow them closely enough to know who sang what.  Brann's voice has been my favorite of the three, as it's the most distinct to me.  I can tell now that it's Troy's vocals that I find the most unusual.  I'm still not completely sold on them, but they do have a lot of character, and I think are probably most useful in contrasting the others as part of a multi-lead vocal attack.  He seems to be the predominant vocalist in this set of songs though, which might hold them back slightly.  I don't think there's quite enough of a sample size of Brent's in the six total songs to always distinguish him from Troy. 

This group of songs seems to give a somewhat more comprehensive view of their sound, though the songs aren't quite as catchy.  "Toe To Toes" has the acoustic playing, particularly in the intro, which is a side of them I'm not sure I was aware they had.  "More Than I Could Chew" adds to that with the Mellotron intro.  I knew they had a prog rock/metal bent to them, but I assumed it was more to do with the complexity of their songs and sometimes exploring conceptual material, but the auxiliary instrumentation certainly adds additional interest.  This batch of songs also represents three different tunings they've employed.  Additionally, Brent has a somewhat unusual but intriguing soloing style, which seems to be derived from his more banjo-style playing technique. 

1:28 in "Black Tongue" is probably my favorite passage of these songs, with quite a mystical-sounding riff.  "More Than I Could Chew" has perhaps the most interesting backing vocal work, with a number of sections of quite ghostly vocals, such as at 2:09, or at 4:15 when they add the upper octave for a bit more forward example. 

Score:  8/10

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Vmadera00 - Mastodon - "Ember City", "Ghost of Karelia", "Dry Bone Valley"

Early Impression - "Unlike an earlier round, this could turn out to be a photo finish."

Final Summary:

The forced immersion into the land of Mastodon seems to have worked, with this set of songs from them being a tad more monolithic, but catchier and riffier. 

Details:

I suppose you'll have to read the entry for Nachtmerrie for some brief personal history with Mastodon and my general feeling about them now. 

And so of course with the impression I'm referring to you and Luke both sending Coheed and Cambria a few rounds ago.  It seems maybe your secret to success is finding someone else to tag-team a band with and just sending the better set of songs.  :-)  Although in this case it's a virtual deadlock.  The differences between them are relatively minute, but this grouping of songs sticks with me slightly more ("Ember City" was the first one to get stuck in my head), due to a bit more incorporation of Brann's vocals, and a tad more interesting collection of riffs, though with a slightly narrower scope of their sound.  The submissions work very well in tandem though.  I especially like how the "Ember City" opening riff starts in unison, but after a few cycles it turns into a harmonized riff. 

Score:  8/10