LithoJazzoSphere Roulette V1: Variety & Reciprocity (Post-Roulette Playlist)

[Elite]

10 or 18?

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Did some major work on my EP today and I think I have it completed. Cross checked all bands against the RYM.
43 minutes.

I've started work on what may be the weirdest EP I've ever put together. I'm at right about 44 minutes at the moment.

[soupytwist]

Is the EP supposed to have a theme, flow or consistent music style/genre?  Or can it just be a bunch of songs?

[TAC]

Is the EP supposed to have a theme, flow or consistent music style/genre?  Or can it just be a bunch of songs?

Seems like the EP portion of the OP has been deleted. Litho said he'd have details soon.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

18

Is the EP supposed to have a theme, flow or consistent music style/genre?  Or can it just be a bunch of songs?

Seems like the EP portion of the OP has been deleted. Litho said he'd have details soon.

I don't think I ever had specifics there in the first place that I can recall.  Since none of the roulettes I've been in have had them (425's stalled out and Crow axed that portion), nor most of the ones I've skimmed, I'm actually not entirely sure what the expectations are for them, and I've kind of just been waiting as long as I can to finalize details.  For the most part I'm pretty flexible and I'll leave it up to people to be as creative as they want. 

Even if it's just a semi-random collection of cool songs that'll probably be ok.  But I will be paying more attention to flow and factoring that somewhat into the score.  Having a theme is up to you, if it's cohesive and interesting that might boost the score a bit.  Multiple styles can work if you can sequence them together in a way that isn't too jarring.  Mostly it's just a chance for people to send multiple artists in the same round and piece songs together in intriguing ways. 

[TAC]

I don't think I ever had specifics there in the first place that I can recall. 
.......
Even if it's just a semi-random collection of cool songs that'll probably be ok.  But I will be paying more attention to flow and factoring that somewhat into the score.  Having a theme is up to you,

Yeah, this was pretty much all it was.


I'm on my third listen of the day of my EP. I feel like it's finished, unless I find a song that that pops one out.
Happy with my theme and concept.



How's the current round going, Litho? Any tidbits?

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

18

Is the EP supposed to have a theme, flow or consistent music style/genre?  Or can it just be a bunch of songs?

Seems like the EP portion of the OP has been deleted. Litho said he'd have details soon.

I don't think I ever had specifics there in the first place that I can recall.  Since none of the roulettes I've been in have had them (425's stalled out and Crow axed that portion), nor most of the ones I've skimmed, I'm actually not entirely sure what the expectations are for them, and I've kind of just been waiting as long as I can to finalize details.  For the most part I'm pretty flexible and I'll leave it up to people to be as creative as they want. 

Even if it's just a semi-random collection of cool songs that'll probably be ok.  But I will be paying more attention to flow and factoring that somewhat into the score.  Having a theme is up to you, if it's cohesive and interesting that might boost the score a bit.  Multiple styles can work if you can sequence them together in a way that isn't too jarring.  Mostly it's just a chance for people to send multiple artists in the same round and piece songs together in intriguing ways.

I have fairly standard EP rules outlined in my roulette OP's https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52942

[Buddyhunter1]

One EP rule TAC has done that I really like is that you can choose to "lock down" bands you're going to use for the EP ahead of time. A lot of preparation goes into them and it'd really suck if someone snipes one of the bands you were going to use and you have to re-do the whole thing. However, you can only lock down a band before results for them are posted, and you're committed to using them once you do. This prevents the reserving from being unfair, since you don't know how well the band will do, and even if someone else sends them before the EP round and they do terribly, tough shit, you still have to send them in your EP.

This is all done privately of course, so it doesn't spoil the fun of revealing who sent what or anything.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

One EP rule TAC has done that I really like is that you can choose to "lock down" bands you're going to use for the EP ahead of time. A lot of preparation goes into them and it'd really suck if someone snipes one of the bands you were going to use and you have to re-do the whole thing. However, you can only lock down a band before results for them are posted, and you're committed to using them once you do. This prevents the reserving from being unfair, since you don't know how well the band will do, and even if someone else sends them before the EP round and they do terribly, tough shit, you still have to send them in your EP.

This is all done privately of course, so it doesn't spoil the fun of revealing who sent what or anything.

I did an early rendition of this rule, which turned into the ragequit rule. TAC's implementation is much better.

[ariich]

Yep, I included "the TAC rule" in my v6 roulette EP round and will be doing the same in my v8.

[Buddyhunter1]

Yep, I included "the TAC rule" in my v6 roulette EP round and will be doing the same in my v8.

Yeah, you phrased it much better than me, too!

There's definitely one artist I'd want to lock down for my own EP, the others I'm fairly certain have a snowball's chance in hell of being sent by anyone else.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

How's the current round going, Litho? Any tidbits?

So this malaise has kind of continued and made it more difficult to concentrate still and be as productive as normal, but I'm working on posting comparisons, probably tomorrow or the next day.  My listening so far has been a bit more uneven than normal, and I've concentrated more on the stronger entries so far.  There are five submissions that especially stand out, with a few others with a  particular notable song.  I need to give a bit more time to the entries that didn't stand out as much to make they have a fair chance to grow on me. 

I have fairly standard EP rules outlined in my roulette OP's https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52942

I may wind up using a version of that when we get closer and I set the rules for it "in stone".  So far I've just preferred to keep it more flexible, with the minimum requirements, and answer questions about what I'm looking for. 

Yep, I included "the TAC rule" in my v6 roulette EP round and will be doing the same in my v8.

I've seen it before and pondered it briefly, and it definitely seems worth considering.  Just never having experienced the implementation of it, I wonder about unforseen consequences of it.  Is it generally pretty uncontroversial in practice? 

[Buddyhunter1]

I have fairly standard EP rules outlined in my roulette OP's https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52942

I may wind up using a version of that when we get closer and I set the rules for it "in stone".  So far I've just preferred to keep it more flexible, with the minimum requirements, and answer questions about what I'm looking for. 

I think your current rules are good. Puppies' rule of no more than 2 songs per artist feels like a bit much to me, especially since you already have the 1/3rd rule that prevents a single artist from dominating the EP.

Yep, I included "the TAC rule" in my v6 roulette EP round and will be doing the same in my v8.

I've seen it before and pondered it briefly, and it definitely seems worthy considering.  Just never having experienced the implementation of it, I wonder about unforseen consequences of it.  Is it generally pretty uncontroversial in practice?

I haven't seen anyone complain about it.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Yeah, I probably won't use that particular rule of his. 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I have fairly standard EP rules outlined in my roulette OP's https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52942

I may wind up using a version of that when we get closer and I set the rules for it "in stone".  So far I've just preferred to keep it more flexible, with the minimum requirements, and answer questions about what I'm looking for. 

I think your current rules are good. Puppies' rule of no more than 2 songs per artist feels like a bit much to me, especially since you already have the 1/3rd rule that prevents a single artist from dominating the EP.

I don't even remember putting that rule in there  but yeah, don't use that rule...

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I'm still soliciting opinions on the TAC rule for EPs if anyone else wants to chime in.  I'm honestly just leaning towards trying to be more flexible in that round, but if someone or enough people really like that rule I'm still open to considering it, though I suppose it likely has less value being implemented now than if it was in place all roulette long.  Certainly all kinds of things to think about when the time for v.2 arrives. 

Anyway, here are the filled-out impressions.  I should have comparisons up later tonight. 

Round 9 Early Impressions:

1:  Lethean - Threshold - This is exactly what I expected from them, but it's quite well done, so it could work. 

2:  Evermind - Hypno5e - They have a rather unusual hybrid approach between a few genres, but I keep wanting them to take it in certain directions that they might not intend to go in. 

3:  soupytwist - Camera Obscura - Maybe I do like some happier, upbeat music after all. 

4:  Vmadera00 - The Mars Volta - Killer drumming, but there's just a messiness to this style of guitar playing that doesn't usually appeal to me, and oh yeah, those vocals...*mutters*

5:  HOF - The Week That Was - All these overlapping and interlocking layers are really unique and fascinating, the question is how well I'll remember them. 

6:  ariich - Submotion Orchestra - This is a really chill and intoxicating mixture of styles. 

7:  twosuitluke - Zeal and Ardor - As I suspected from the songs I've sampled in the past, this mashup works better than it should on paper, though I'm unsure how much staying power these particular tunes will have. 

8:  TAC - Circus of Fools - Now this is the kind of band that seems custom-made for me. 

9:  Puppies_On_Acid - Sieges Even - Good grief the chorus on the first song is addicting.  I'm not so sure about the second tune though. 

10:  senecadawg2 - The Amazing Devil - I'm not sure there's quite enough happening over the runtime for me, though the ending of the second song might elevate it a bit. 

11:  Crow - East of the Wall - This is definitely better than I feared it might be, though the vocals and noodliness might put a cap on the level it can reach. 

12:  SoundscapeMN - Ours - I didn't realize that U2 and The Tea Party did an album together. 

13:  Stadler - Our Lady Peace - Man, I feel like I'm 14 again. 

14:  Buddyhunter1 - The Comet Is Coming - It's kind of repetitive, but the vibe is trippy and cool, so let's see how much it grows on me. 

15:  Sacul - Kendrick Lamar - There are some really nice elements scattered throughout these songs, but they aren't prominent enough, and this is still a style that's quite challenging to consistently pull off the way I'd like to hear it. 

16:  Tomislav95 - Rishloo - The bass and drum grooves are pretty tasty,  but I wish the guitars were a bit weightier, and I'll probably continue to struggle with this vocal style. 

17:  Nachtmerrie - Brutus - Here we have a better example of how to execute a genre I typically haven't cared for. 

18:  Elite - Gilad Hekselmen - My tastes in this broad style are mostly frozen decades ago, and this might be a bit abstract an update for me, but there are certainly some piquant traits that could blossom. 

[TAC]

I'm still soliciting opinions on the TAC rule for EPs if anyone else wants to chime in.  I'm honestly just leaning towards trying to be more flexible in that round, but if someone or enough people really like that rule I'm still open to considering it, though I suppose it likely has less value being implemented now than if it was in place all roulette long.  Certainly all kinds of things to think about when the time for v.2 arrives. 

The biggest thing is that people put a lot of time, energy, and thought into their EP's. They've evolved over the roulettes to be more than just a playlist. As soon as a roulette has an EP Round, wheels are turning. I'd venture to guess that close to half of the EPs in this roulette are completed.

Mine is pretty much set. I'd just hate to lose a band because someone used it in the Pre-90's round.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

On one hand, I may have the benefit of being a bit more obsessive than most in collecting a ton of different artists so it's relatively easy for me to swap things out, and I also tend to pick things that most people aren't likely to send when I'm on the other side of the roulette.  But I also may just need to be more lenient with EP selections, and see how much of a burden it would be for people to alter them.  There's only likely to be another dozen or two artists that would score high enough to be banned in the next few rounds anyway. 

[ariich]

For me, the purpose of EP rounds is not so much about maximising new discoveries but rather encouraging people to be creative and put some thought into curating something that flows well, which is why I allow some flexibility including a certain proportion being from banned artists (which contribute to the flow score but not the music quality score).

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Also, maybe this is just me, but I'd personally be wanting to hold off as long as I could on fully committing myself to particular artists in case I learn more about the host's taste, given that I suspect most people have less of a sense of what I like than most other roulette regulars, just for the fact that I'm still relatively new to them compared to almost everyone else.  Although I suspect at least a few people have given up on figuring me out (or never really tried to in the first place), just sending me their favorites that they use regardless of host. 

[twosuitsluke]

Or like me, you leave it very last minute and try to cobble something together while giving the impression you put more time into it than you did.

Honestly, I think I've ever really crafted one EP that flowed really nicely. I've made a few others that were pretty good though.

[SoundscapeMN]

I'm going through what to include on the EP for this and for a Prog EP Contest that the YouTube Channel 365 Days of Prog is doing. Although I suspect both EPs will not include any of the same songs.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Let's do something slightly different for comparisons this time.

Triplets and Twins:

Circus of Fools > Brutus > The Amazing Devil

East of the Wall > Rishloo ? The Mars Volta

Submotion Orchestra > The Comet Is Coming > Gilad Hekselman

Threshold ? Sieges Even > Hypno5e

Camera Obscura > The Week That Was

Ours > Our Lady Peace

Zeal and Ardor > Kendrick Lamar

[TAC]

Interesting

[Buddyhunter1]

Middle of the round is my M.O. for this roulette!

[Crow]

see i know you weren't gonna like this as much as gunship but that's interesting 

[twosuitsluke]

Zeal and Ardor > Kendrick Lamar

In other news, water is wet.

[Sacul]

Akshually, water is not wet, but what is touched by water is, by definition. Thus, about that comparison...

[Stadler]

Akshually, water is not wet, but what is touched by water is, by definition. Thus, about that comparison...

A post after my own heart. 

[SoundscapeMN]

and a Hot-Water-Heater doesn't make Hot Water, Hot.

i.e. a Water-Heater isn't a Hot-Water-Heater.

[Lonk]

and a Hot-Water-Heater doesn't make Hot Water, Hot.

i.e. a Water-Heater isn't a Hot-Water-Heater.

[Stadler]

and a Hot-Water-Heater doesn't make Hot Water, Hot.

i.e. a Water-Heater isn't a Hot-Water-Heater.

Two winners in a row!   

[LithoJazzoSphere]

A little progress update, I've done the bulk of the writeups, but this round has some of the longest time to blooming submissions yet, so scores have been creeping up for a fortunate few of you.  It's turning out to be one of the better rounds in the roulette so far, which is quite serendipitous given that normally there's a steep drop-off from the mystery song rounds to the open ones.  But that also has meant that I've needed to rewrite some parts of the writeups to more accurately reflect my updated opinions on them.  Also, despite not having as many notes from my first listens, I've had more to say than I expected given the circumstances of the past month, so some of them are closer to "normal" length, which I'm having some mixed feelings on, but I may have a workaround for that later, I may talk about it after this round and try it out in the next one. 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Waiting for that sweet 4/10 

[twosuitsluke]

I can't help feeling I've made a terrible mistake sending Zeal and Ardor (not that it makes any difference to my chances of winning anything here).

Can you give bonus awards at the end of the roulette? You know, like 'most improved', 'best King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard submission' or 'best hangman-er'?