2022 NFL Thread (Chiefs win Super Bowl 57)

[Stadler]

  Mahomes played very well for that game (he's a great actor as well; ) but he wasn't even the best QB on the field that game, let alone "the GOAT").

I missed this earlier, but you disappoint me, sir.  Even after a game like that, you're still basically doing the "yeah but" with Mahomes? 

There are enough people fawning over St. Patrick, he doesn't need me.  He played a solid, MVP-worthy game (see what PG said).  I don't have to participate in the bone-numbing hyperbole to give him his props.   It takes nothing away from Mahomes to say what I did.  Hurts was a bigger part of his offense than Mahomes was of his, which is why I said what I said (and am not backing off it). PG conveniently left off the three rushing TDs (most for a QB in a Superbowl, tied for most for a player), as well as the 4th down conversions. 

I'm at a complete loss.  I can't for the LIFE of me understand why simply saying he's a great player isn't enough.

The thing is this: Mahomes was perfect. Hurts was far from it.  Hurts had a catastrophic fumble that was scooped up for a touchdown. He also threw several balls that could have easily been picked. Switch which team the QBs are on, and you have the Eagles winning by double digits.

I absolutely do not agree with that.   Kelce being wide open by five yards does not make Mahomes the greatest of all time.  Kadarious Toney and Skye Moore not being within 20 yards of ANY defender, let alone one covering them specifically, doesn't make Mahomes the greatest of all time.

None of that is to take anything away from Mahomes; he's great.  He's not the GREATEST, nor was he "perfect".

[Stadler]

It seems clear to me that he's the best player right now, and his accomplishments to this point rank him AMONG the best starts to a career of all time.  If his trajectory continues this way, he will wind up in the discussion for GOAT, which is basically just a matter of opinion anyway.

This. Incredible player BUT the longevity has to be there and the 'eye test' says it will but you have to just wait and see. That is/was my beef with folks throwing around all the praise and accolades to MLB players like Machado, Tatis Jr, Soto......sure, they've had a good couple seasons here and there but that's it. IF they're around in a decade and have stayed consistent in producing in that manner THEN they'd be worthy of the incessant amount of praise they receive.

I'm calling it. Skeever at the Dream Theater forum says Mahomes is a top 10 QB of all time. Right now. No "if" or "when" involved.

QBs who are definitely ahead of him:
-Peyton Manning
-Aaron Rodgers
-Tom Brady
-Drew Brees
-Joe Montana

Everyone else - and I don't care if they've got double the passing yards or 20 years in the league - is highly, highly debatable.

Johnny Unitas and John Elway should be in that list as well. Possibly Dan Marino and Brett Favre, too.

Mahomes is not above Johnny Golden Arm yet.  I think he's on par with Elway. He's better than both Marino and Favre, at least with the stats that are on the table right now.

[hefdaddy42]

Otto Graham won 5 titles in his first 5 years.  Just throwing that out there.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

The talk of Mahomes as a GOAT already is just part of the typical hype that drives sports every year. No doubt he is the face of the new generation of QBs and he is off to an unprecedented start in his career when you pair his numbers with the SB wins. I personally don't believe SB wins is the best measure of individual performance but I am obviously way outnumbered.

However, by any measure, right now he isn't the GOAT or amongst the GOATs because he just hasn't played long enough to rack up the numbers to fairly decide the question. Time will tell but there is just so much hype to drive narrative in sports. It's just not sexy or tantalizing to say 'let's wait and see'.  Now we are talking about Mahomes chasing Brady despite the fact that Brady played for decades, has more MVPs nearly all the big all-time stats and 6 rings.  Will it surprise me if Mahomes has 6 SB rings when it's all said and done? No, because this is an amazing trajectory he appears to be on. But will it surprise me if he starts suffering injuries that impact his performance, or if at some point as he ages he can no longer scramble like he once did and doesn't do as well as a mostly pocket passer? No. We have seen that story time and time again (though, we've only seen the 6 ring story once). Football can be an unpredictable sport but sooner or later, almost everyone gets hurt.

I think his pairing with Andy Reid is special and it *could* one day look like Brady + Belicheck. We'll see in 10 years.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Otto Graham won 5 titles in his first 5 years.  Just throwing that out there.

Also this.

[El Barto]

And out of nowhere everybody suddenly agrees with Stadler re Mahomes.   

[lonestar]

Mahomes has a solid start towards being in the GOAT conversation, but he needs some time behind him to be seriously considered. If he has a career ending injury in the pre-season, we'll only talk of his potential career that went away.

[Stadler]

The talk of Mahomes as a GOAT already is just part of the typical hype that drives sports every year. No doubt he is the face of the new generation of QBs and he is off to an unprecedented start in his career when you pair his numbers with the SB wins. I personally don't believe SB wins is the best measure of individual performance but I am obviously way outnumbered.

However, by any measure, right now he isn't the GOAT or amongst the GOATs because he just hasn't played long enough to rack up the numbers to fairly decide the question. Time will tell but there is just so much hype to drive narrative in sports. It's just not sexy or tantalizing to say 'let's wait and see'.  Now we are talking about Mahomes chasing Brady despite the fact that Brady played for decades, has more MVPs nearly all the big all-time stats and 6 rings.  Will it surprise me if Mahomes has 6 SB rings when it's all said and done? No, because this is an amazing trajectory he appears to be on. But will it surprise me if he starts suffering injuries that impact his performance, or if at some point as he ages he can no longer scramble like he once did and doesn't do as well as a mostly pocket passer? No. We have seen that story time and time again (though, we've only seen the 6 ring story once). Football can be an unpredictable sport but sooner or later, almost everyone gets hurt.

I think his pairing with Andy Reid is special and it *could* one day look like Brady + Belicheck. We'll see in 10 years.

Forget Mahomes for a second; Andy Reid doesn't coach for ten more years, IMO.  He's already hinted at "making a decision" this off-season. 

[KevShmev]

It seems clear to me that he's the best player right now, and his accomplishments to this point rank him AMONG the best starts to a career of all time.  If his trajectory continues this way, he will wind up in the discussion for GOAT, which is basically just a matter of opinion anyway.

Perfect.   Tell that to Dream Team, who's already measured out and bought the yellow coat.

I have.

Yep.  If Mahomes retired today, he'd already be a Hall of Famer (and justifiably so).  Longevity is not always needed when you are this good in a shorter window.  Kurt Warner made the Hall and he was really only very good/great for 4-5 years.

I absolutely do not agree with that.   Kelce being wide open by five yards does not make Mahomes the greatest of all time.  Kadarious Toney and Skye Moore not being within 20 yards of ANY defender, let alone one covering them specifically, doesn't make Mahomes the greatest of all time.

None of that is to take anything away from Mahomes; he's great.  He's not the GREATEST, nor was he "perfect".

Now, wait a minute.  How often have we (the general "we" ) given Brady love over the years for finding the open guy who catches a 2-yard pass and takes it 30 yards?  But when Mahomes does it, it is suddenly an issue?

Mahomes has a solid start towards being in the GOAT conversation, but he needs some time behind him to be seriously considered. If he has a career ending injury in the pre-season, we'll only talk of his potential career that went away.

I disagree.  It is worth repeating: he is now one of only three QBs to EVER win two regular season MVP awards AND two Super Bowl MVP awards.  The other two are Tom Brady and Joe Montana.  He is a legend already, regardless of how his next 10-15 years play out.

[TheCountOfNYC]

It seems clear to me that he's the best player right now, and his accomplishments to this point rank him AMONG the best starts to a career of all time.  If his trajectory continues this way, he will wind up in the discussion for GOAT, which is basically just a matter of opinion anyway.

Perfect.   Tell that to Dream Team, who's already measured out and bought the yellow coat.

I have.

Yep.  If Mahomes retired today, he'd already be a Hall of Famer (and justifiably so).  Longevity is not always needed when you are this good in a shorter window.  Kurt Warner made the Hall and he was really only very good/great for 4-5 years.

I absolutely do not agree with that.   Kelce being wide open by five yards does not make Mahomes the greatest of all time.  Kadarious Toney and Skye Moore not being within 20 yards of ANY defender, let alone one covering them specifically, doesn't make Mahomes the greatest of all time.

None of that is to take anything away from Mahomes; he's great.  He's not the GREATEST, nor was he "perfect".

Now, wait a minute.  How often have we (the general "we" ) given Brady love over the years for finding the open guy who catches a 2-yard pass and takes it 30 yards?  But when Mahomes does it, it is suddenly an issue?

Mahomes has a solid start towards being in the GOAT conversation, but he needs some time behind him to be seriously considered. If he has a career ending injury in the pre-season, we'll only talk of his potential career that went away.

I disagree.  It is worth repeating: he is now one of only three QBs to EVER win two regular season MVP awards AND two Super Bowl MVP awards.  The other two are Tom Brady and Joe Montana.  He is a legend already, regardless of how his next 10-15 years play out.

He’s also the first player to win both league MVP and Super Bowl MVP in the same season since Kurt Warner in 1999.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

The talk of Mahomes as a GOAT already is just part of the typical hype that drives sports every year. No doubt he is the face of the new generation of QBs and he is off to an unprecedented start in his career when you pair his numbers with the SB wins. I personally don't believe SB wins is the best measure of individual performance but I am obviously way outnumbered.

However, by any measure, right now he isn't the GOAT or amongst the GOATs because he just hasn't played long enough to rack up the numbers to fairly decide the question. Time will tell but there is just so much hype to drive narrative in sports. It's just not sexy or tantalizing to say 'let's wait and see'.  Now we are talking about Mahomes chasing Brady despite the fact that Brady played for decades, has more MVPs nearly all the big all-time stats and 6 rings.  Will it surprise me if Mahomes has 6 SB rings when it's all said and done? No, because this is an amazing trajectory he appears to be on. But will it surprise me if he starts suffering injuries that impact his performance, or if at some point as he ages he can no longer scramble like he once did and doesn't do as well as a mostly pocket passer? No. We have seen that story time and time again (though, we've only seen the 6 ring story once). Football can be an unpredictable sport but sooner or later, almost everyone gets hurt.

I think his pairing with Andy Reid is special and it *could* one day look like Brady + Belicheck. We'll see in 10 years.

Forget Mahomes for a second; Andy Reid doesn't coach for ten more years, IMO.  He's already hinted at "making a decision" this off-season.

I didn't know that but if Reid goes away that could seriously affect Mahomes' trajectory. Reid is considered by many an offensive genius. Many years he made the playoffs with mediocre quarterbacks (also made a SB) but never got over the finish line. Now he has a good QB and he is winning superbowls. It's another big part of the GOAT equation we'll just need to see and wait on.

[Stadler]

It seems clear to me that he's the best player right now, and his accomplishments to this point rank him AMONG the best starts to a career of all time.  If his trajectory continues this way, he will wind up in the discussion for GOAT, which is basically just a matter of opinion anyway.

Perfect.   Tell that to Dream Team, who's already measured out and bought the yellow coat.

I have.

Yep.  If Mahomes retired today, he'd already be a Hall of Famer (and justifiably so).  Longevity is not always needed when you are this good in a shorter window.  Kurt Warner made the Hall and he was really only very good/great for 4-5 years.

Kurt Warner might be in my top three of favorite players of all time (I just think he's quality guy, a class act) but he's not the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.  And when he went into the Hall, the knock was, he didn't do it long enough or in enough iterations.   I won't dispute Mahomes gets into the Hall right now. But it's the same debate as Warner (re: longevity).

 

Now, wait a minute.  How often have we (the general "we" ) given Brady love over the years for finding the open guy who catches a 2-yard pass and takes it 30 yards?  But when Mahomes does it, it is suddenly an issue?

Nope, not from me.  That's not what made Brady great, or the greatest.  We're talking a very specific criteria here.

[Stadler]

The talk of Mahomes as a GOAT already is just part of the typical hype that drives sports every year. No doubt he is the face of the new generation of QBs and he is off to an unprecedented start in his career when you pair his numbers with the SB wins. I personally don't believe SB wins is the best measure of individual performance but I am obviously way outnumbered.

However, by any measure, right now he isn't the GOAT or amongst the GOATs because he just hasn't played long enough to rack up the numbers to fairly decide the question. Time will tell but there is just so much hype to drive narrative in sports. It's just not sexy or tantalizing to say 'let's wait and see'.  Now we are talking about Mahomes chasing Brady despite the fact that Brady played for decades, has more MVPs nearly all the big all-time stats and 6 rings.  Will it surprise me if Mahomes has 6 SB rings when it's all said and done? No, because this is an amazing trajectory he appears to be on. But will it surprise me if he starts suffering injuries that impact his performance, or if at some point as he ages he can no longer scramble like he once did and doesn't do as well as a mostly pocket passer? No. We have seen that story time and time again (though, we've only seen the 6 ring story once). Football can be an unpredictable sport but sooner or later, almost everyone gets hurt.

I think his pairing with Andy Reid is special and it *could* one day look like Brady + Belicheck. We'll see in 10 years.

Forget Mahomes for a second; Andy Reid doesn't coach for ten more years, IMO.  He's already hinted at "making a decision" this off-season.

I didn't know that but if Reid goes away that could seriously affect Mahomes' trajectory. Reid is considered by many an offensive genius. Many years he made the playoffs with mediocre quarterbacks (also made a SB) but never got over the finish line. Now he has a good QB and he is winning superbowls. It's another big part of the GOAT equation we'll just need to see and wait on.

Including the Super Bowl three of the last four years. 


I'M KIDDING, FFS. Lighten up, all you Francis's. 

[KevShmev]

Kurt Warner might be in my top three of favorite players of all time (I just think he's quality guy, a class act) but he's not the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.  And when he went into the Hall, the knock was, he didn't do it long enough or in enough iterations.   I won't dispute Mahomes gets into the Hall right now. But it's the same debate as Warner (re: longevity).

I own two NFL jerseys. One is a Broncos Terrell Davis jersey (late 90s uni).  The other is a Rams Kurt Warner jersey from the GSOT years.   

(how I never bought an Elway jersey or a Peyton one once he became a Bronco is a total mystery)

Now, wait a minute.  How often have we (the general "we" ) given Brady love over the years for finding the open guy who catches a 2-yard pass and takes it 30 yards?  But when Mahomes does it, it is suddenly an issue?

Nope, not from me.  That's not what made Brady great, or the greatest.  We're talking a very specific criteria here.

Right, but throwing to wide open receivers is not what makes Mahomes great either.  Kelce is obviously one of the top 3 receiving TEs ever (along with Gonzo and Gronk; no need to split hairs putting them in order), but look at his WRs this past season.  Pretty bleak crew overall, on par with the misfits Brady was throwing to in NE before Moss came to town.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

The talk of Mahomes as a GOAT already is just part of the typical hype that drives sports every year. No doubt he is the face of the new generation of QBs and he is off to an unprecedented start in his career when you pair his numbers with the SB wins. I personally don't believe SB wins is the best measure of individual performance but I am obviously way outnumbered.

However, by any measure, right now he isn't the GOAT or amongst the GOATs because he just hasn't played long enough to rack up the numbers to fairly decide the question. Time will tell but there is just so much hype to drive narrative in sports. It's just not sexy or tantalizing to say 'let's wait and see'.  Now we are talking about Mahomes chasing Brady despite the fact that Brady played for decades, has more MVPs nearly all the big all-time stats and 6 rings.  Will it surprise me if Mahomes has 6 SB rings when it's all said and done? No, because this is an amazing trajectory he appears to be on. But will it surprise me if he starts suffering injuries that impact his performance, or if at some point as he ages he can no longer scramble like he once did and doesn't do as well as a mostly pocket passer? No. We have seen that story time and time again (though, we've only seen the 6 ring story once). Football can be an unpredictable sport but sooner or later, almost everyone gets hurt.

I think his pairing with Andy Reid is special and it *could* one day look like Brady + Belicheck. We'll see in 10 years.

Forget Mahomes for a second; Andy Reid doesn't coach for ten more years, IMO.  He's already hinted at "making a decision" this off-season.

I didn't know that but if Reid goes away that could seriously affect Mahomes' trajectory. Reid is considered by many an offensive genius. Many years he made the playoffs with mediocre quarterbacks (also made a SB) but never got over the finish line. Now he has a good QB and he is winning superbowls. It's another big part of the GOAT equation we'll just need to see and wait on.

Including the Super Bowl three of the last four years. 


I'M KIDDING, FFS. Lighten up, all you Francis's.

lol. I am not AS skeptical on Mahomes' greatness but I do think the hype around him is a little bit much at present. He is an amazing athlete but in terms of pure QB play, I don't see him as in the top 3. Part of that is maybe the position has changed so much in the last decade, but it is hard for me to ignore that every time I see him complete a pass, he either makes some crazy athletic play OR his receivers are wide open.

The numbers are really impressive but it's impossible to compare apples-to-apples to the prior generation when the game was indisputably played much differently. We'll all have clearer perspective in a few years time.

[King Postwhore]

Top 3 all time?  Top 3 of this generation?

[Stadler]

Now, wait a minute.  How often have we (the general "we" ) given Brady love over the years for finding the open guy who catches a 2-yard pass and takes it 30 yards?  But when Mahomes does it, it is suddenly an issue?

Nope, not from me.  That's not what made Brady great, or the greatest.  We're talking a very specific criteria here.

Right, but throwing to wide open receivers is not what makes Mahomes great either.  Kelce is obviously one of the top 3 receiving TEs ever (along with Gonzo and Gronk; no need to split hairs putting them in order), but look at his WRs this past season.  Pretty bleak crew overall, on par with the misfits Brady was throwing to in NE before Moss came to town.

No, it's not. And that's my point.  Several of the things that made Brady (and Manning, for that matter, since I think Manning is historically ranked higher than Mahomes) the greatest Mahomes hasn't encountered or shown yet. 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Top 3 all time?  Top 3 of this generation?

Sorry, I meant I do not see him as top 3 all time yet. He is easily the best QB of his generation (a young generation, granted) right now.

[KevShmev]

Top 3 all time?  Top 3 of this generation?

All time, no, not yet. It all depends on how it plays out from here, but I think he is comfortably in the top 10 already.  If he drops off a bit like Favre did after Holmgren left GB, he likely finishes in that 6-10 range where Favre is, but if he can keep this up, the sky is the limit.

Now, wait a minute.  How often have we (the general "we" ) given Brady love over the years for finding the open guy who catches a 2-yard pass and takes it 30 yards?  But when Mahomes does it, it is suddenly an issue?

Nope, not from me.  That's not what made Brady great, or the greatest.  We're talking a very specific criteria here.

Right, but throwing to wide open receivers is not what makes Mahomes great either.  Kelce is obviously one of the top 3 receiving TEs ever (along with Gonzo and Gronk; no need to split hairs putting them in order), but look at his WRs this past season.  Pretty bleak crew overall, on par with the misfits Brady was throwing to in NE before Moss came to town.

No, it's not. And that's my point.  Several of the things that made Brady (and Manning, for that matter, since I think Manning is historically ranked higher than Mahomes) the greatest Mahomes hasn't encountered or shown yet.

Agreed on Manning.  For me, Brady, Manning and Montana are a firm top 3 right now, and it will take a lot for someone to penetrate that barrier and knock one of them down to 4th.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I should add that it's extremely hard to compare apples-to-apples QBs playing right now to those who played 20, 30, 40 years ago. The rules have changed so much to benefit the offense that we are just in a different era of football-- one in which the first generation includes Mahomes.

[King Postwhore]

Top 3 all time?  Top 3 of this generation?

Sorry, I meant I do not see him as top 3 all time yet. He is easily the best QB of his generation (a young generation, granted) right now.

Agreed.  He's on a hell of a pace though. He just needs longevity now.

[lonestar]

Top 3 all time?  Top 3 of this generation?

Sorry, I meant I do not see him as top 3 all time yet. He is easily the best QB of his generation (a young generation, granted) right now.

Agreed.  He's on a hell of a pace though. He just needs longevity now.

Le this.

[lonestar]

Just saw an article that said Donna Kelce brought her two sons Tupperware containers of home baked cookies before the game 

[Stadler]

Just saw an article that said Donna Kelce brought her two sons Tupperware containers of home baked cookies before the game 

Wasn't there a shot of Jason Kelce eating something like a cookie or bar on the sideline during the first half?

[lordxizor]

Just saw an article that said Donna Kelce brought her two sons Tupperware containers of home baked cookies before the game 

That's the most wholesome thing I've read all week.

[lonestar]

Just saw an article that said Donna Kelce brought her two sons Tupperware containers of home baked cookies before the game 

Wasn't there a shot of Jason Kelce eating something like a cookie or bar on the sideline during the first half?

No clue.. Didn't watch the game live.

[Dream Team]

Even if I was totally non-partisan, I think it's factually hard to argue with what some of the talking heads are pointing out.

Patrick Mahomes just completed the greatest season by a QB in the NFL ever:

Led the league in passing yards
Led the league in TD passes
Led the league in QBR and all advanced stats
Set an NFL record for total yards from scrimmage
Won the regular season MVP
Helmed the #1 offense in the NFL
Led his team to the #1 seed
Was great in the playoffs despite 1 fully healthy quarter
Posted a 96.4 QBR in the Super Bowl against the #1 defense
Won the Super Bowl
Won the Super Bowl MVP
Had a 4th quarter lead in all 20 games he played
Did this in a "rebuild/retool" year after losing his #1 all-pro receiver, with 3 new receivers and a ton of rookies on defense

All-time greats like Brady and Peyton also accomplished all of the above of course, just not in the same season.

He has yet to hit his prime. I think the Chiefs will be better next year with all these rookies having a full season under their belt. I rooted for Big Ben for 17 years despite his flaws but now I get to root for a guy with no character issues and who's a better leader and teammate. I'll ride with him no matter what.

[Stadler]

Even if I was totally non-partisan, I think it's factually hard to argue with what some of the talking heads are pointing out.

Patrick Mahomes just completed the greatest season by a QB in the NFL ever:

Led the league in passing yards
Led the league in TD passes
Led the league in QBR and all advanced stats
Set an NFL record for total yards from scrimmage
Won the regular season MVP
Helmed the #1 offense in the NFL
Led his team to the #1 seed
Was great in the playoffs despite 1 fully healthy quarter
Posted a 96.4 QBR in the Super Bowl against the #1 defense
Won the Super Bowl
Won the Super Bowl MVP
Had a 4th quarter lead in all 20 games he played
Did this in a "rebuild/retool" year after losing his #1 all-pro receiver, with 3 new receivers and a ton of rookies on defense

All-time greats like Brady and Peyton also accomplished all of the above of course, just not in the same season.

He has yet to hit his prime. I think the Chiefs will be better next year with all these rookies having a full season under their belt. I rooted for Big Ben for 17 years despite his flaws but now I get to root for a guy with no character issues and who's a better leader and teammate. I'll ride with him no matter what.

Except, many of those are not "facts", nor are they "objective".   Was he really "great"?  Is that a stat?   How many do I need to have before I'm great? 

This list, which contemplates his current season, doesn't put that one on the list (but does put 2018 in, at number six, behind at least Brady and Manning (as well as Young, Marino and Montana).  Good thing you're not totally non-partisan!

[Skeever]

I thought about Marino in my list, but ultimately he was too caught up in his own statline to have the kind of year/game that Mahomes had on Sunday. And I easily take Mahomes of Favre.

As far as Unitas goes, hell if I know.

[hefdaddy42]

Marino probably wouldn't make my Top 10 list.

[faizoff]

Just saw an article that said Donna Kelce brought her two sons Tupperware containers of home baked cookies before the game 

This was a few days before the game, there's video too 

https://youtu.be/ZPqc-aOGWCo?t=68

[Stadler]

Marino probably wouldn't make my Top 10 list.

Honestly, Marino doesn't make any of my lists (I'm not a fan), either, but I'm trying to be as flexible as I can for different QBs in different scenarios.

[hefdaddy42]

Marino probably wouldn't make my Top 10 list.

Honestly, Marino doesn't make any of my lists (I'm not a fan), either, but I'm trying to be as flexible as I can for different QBs in different scenarios.

Yeah.  When he retired, he held a lot of career records, mostly as a result of just playing forever.  If not for that and that one season where he hit 5,000 yards and 48 TDs, I'm not sure he would be talked about hardly at all.

[lonestar]

Yep, jewelry is definitely a pre-requisite for being in the discussion

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Marino probably wouldn't make my Top 10 list.

Honestly, Marino doesn't make any of my lists (I'm not a fan), either, but I'm trying to be as flexible as I can for different QBs in different scenarios.

Yeah.  When he retired, he held a lot of career records, mostly as a result of just playing forever.  If not for that and that one season where he hit 5,000 yards and 48 TDs, I'm not sure he would be talked about hardly at all.

This was a huge milestone in 1984, unlike today. And he has a number of extremely impressive accolades and stats to back up his legacy as in the top 10. I think even if he never threw for 5K yards, we would very much talk about him. He is one of the best quarterbacks ever. When you put his stats into the time period during which he played, they're exceptional. It wasn't just that he stuck around forever.

Obviously no ring hurts the legacy. I view that as somewhat unfair because winning Super Bowls is such a complex puzzle with dozens of pieces/factors -- not just one, even though everyone is obsessed by quarterbacks -- but alas it is what it is. There are many great individual players who are GOATs but never were on a SB winning team. He is one of them.