2022 NFL Thread (Chiefs win Super Bowl 57)

[Stadler]

There are certainly other dynasties with that level of accomplishment.  I wouldn't argue that.

[Skeever]

Do you guys consider the Chiefs a dynasty yet?

5 straight appearances in the AFC championship. 3 super bowl appearances in the last 4 years. 2 super bowl wins.

Can we crown them a dynasty, or is a dynasty something you crown more after the fact?

Sure.

I'd say yes. Starting with Andy Reid they are 117-45 over 10 seasons, with 8 playoff appearances, 7 division titles, 2 SBs. Ain't that about as good as it gets? I know it's not AS GOOD as it has gotten from some others, but it's right up there with most of what we'd call a Dynasty, no?

[lordxizor]

Do you guys consider the Chiefs a dynasty yet?

5 straight appearances in the AFC championship. 3 super bowl appearances in the last 4 years. 2 super bowl wins.

Can we crown them a dynasty, or is a dynasty something you crown more after the fact?

Sure.

I'd say yes. Starting with Andy Reid they are 117-45 over 10 seasons, with 8 playoff appearances, 7 division titles, 2 SBs. Ain't that about as good as it gets? I know it's not AS GOOD as it has gotten from some others, but it's right up there with most of what we'd call a Dynasty, no?

That raises the question of when the dynasty started? With Reid or with Mahomes?

[hefdaddy42]

If this is the discussion, I would say with Mahomes.  5 years as starting QB, 5 AFC title game appearances, 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins.

[pg1067]

Speaking of Kelce...I often wonder how the outside looked at Gronk. He's generally considered around here as a loveable buffoon. I always thought his schtick was annoying and I can't imagine people on the outside not thinking he was a douche.

From where I sit, he existed on a spectrum with "lovable buffoon" on one end and colossal (albeit harmless) douche on the other.  Currently, he's very much on the "lovable buffoon" end of things.

[El Barto]

If this is the discussion, I would say with Mahomes.  5 years as starting QB, 5 AFC title game appearances, 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins.

Interesting consideration. The Chiefs were always a very good team under Reid. They only had one season under 11-5, and never had a losing season. At the same time, I think "dynasty" has to involve titles. We don't call the early 90's Bills a dynasty despite being a great team for many years. KC didn't become a championship team until Mahomes, so I think the dynasty tag has to based on him.

That having been said, KC is kind of on the border regarding dynasty status, IMO. Dynasties are based on lineage. You have to be successful long enough to experience a lot of churn. We're talking about replacing most of your roster and still winning titles. I don't know as there's a set time frame, and I don't know if KC is there yet or not. I'd say they're certainly on the verge of dynastic and the next year or two will settle it.

[lordxizor]

If this is the discussion, I would say with Mahomes.  5 years as starting QB, 5 AFC title game appearances, 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins.

Interesting consideration. The Chiefs were always a very good team under Reid. They only had one season under 11-5, and never had a losing season. At the same time, I think "dynasty" has to involve titles. We don't call the early 90's Bills a dynasty despite being a great team for many years. KC didn't become a championship team until Mahomes, so I think the dynasty tag has to based on him.

That having been said, KC is kind of on the border regarding dynasty status, IMO. Dynasties are based on lineage. You have to be successful long enough to experience a lot of churn. We're talking about replacing most of your roster and still winning titles. I don't know as there's a set time frame, and I don't know if KC is there yet or not. I'd say they're certainly on the verge of dynastic and the next year or two will settle it.

I tend to agree. If KC were to fall apart next year and just be a borderline playoff team for the next 5 years, would we still call 2017-2023 KC a dynasty? I'm not sure. I think one more title in the next few seasons would seal it for sure. Even a couple more AFC championships.

[pg1067]

If this is the discussion, I would say with Mahomes.  5 years as starting QB, 5 AFC title game appearances, 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins.

Interesting consideration. The Chiefs were always a very good team under Reid. They only had one season under 11-5, and never had a losing season. At the same time, I think "dynasty" has to involve titles. We don't call the early 90's Bills a dynasty despite being a great team for many years. KC didn't become a championship team until Mahomes, so I think the dynasty tag has to based on him.

That having been said, KC is kind of on the border regarding dynasty status, IMO. Dynasties are based on lineage. You have to be successful long enough to experience a lot of churn. We're talking about replacing most of your roster and still winning titles. I don't know as there's a set time frame, and I don't know if KC is there yet or not. I'd say they're certainly on the verge of dynastic and the next year or two will settle it.

If you look at the entirety of the Reid era (10 seasons from 2013-22), which also happens to be the Kelce era since Reid's first season was also Kelce's rookie year (although Kelce only played one snap because of injury), it's pretty damn impressive:

- 117-45 record (this is 6 games better than the Patriots over the same span)
- 8 seasons with 11 or more wins (9-7 in 2014 and 10-6 in 2017)
- 7 division titles (two in the pre-Mahomes years)
- 9 playoff appearances
- 12-7 playoff record

It was a team on the precipice, and the addition of Mahomes kinda put them over the edge.  I can't say that I remember that far back, but my guess is that, when the Patriots won 3 Owls in 4 years, the term dynasty was bandied about pretty frequently (even though it took 10 years and 2 years of getting Elied before they won another one).

[pg1067]

By the way, at the other end of the spectrum, the 5 worst teams over the last 20 seasons:

- Browns.........................106-216
- Raiders.........................116-206 (Commitment to Excrement!)
- Jaguars.........................121-201
- Lions............................127-195
- Redskins/Commanders....131-191

[Dublagent66]

Dallas was the first to win 3 SB's in 4 years and were called a dynasty.  NE was the 2nd and only other team to do that and were also called a dynasty.  If KC goes to the SB next year and repeats, I'd say they're in the dynasty club.

[KevShmev]

I know they have three other close calls in the last half decade, but only two championships does not a dynasty make.  If they get to three in the next season or two, we can talk, but until then, no way.

[axeman90210]

I know they have three other close calls in the last half decade, but only two championships does not a dynasty make.  If they get to three in the next season or two, we can talk, but until then, no way.

I was thinking similar, I'd want to see a third Super Bowl win before considering anyone a dynasty.

[bosk1]

Wow, surprising how many pages this thread has spawned.  Not even going to try catching up. 

Despite not being interested in the game, I did catch a bit of it.  Saw a bit of early second quarter, I think it was, in Spanish before dinner (it's kinda fun watching a major sporting event in a different country, even if not interested in the game itself).  Afterward, came back and saw a good portion of the 4th until the end of the game.  Didn't really care who won.  Was just hoping to catch Mahomes suffer a career-ending injury, but alas, it didn't happen.  Did see "the penalty."  On one hand, it was a "good call."  They DB clearly committed a penalty, and the ref was in a position where it was obvious.  On the other, it was a "bad call" because it was really minor, and that type of contact is more often not called.  But I'm a bit surprised over the outrage.  It was the "correct" call, and one that is called quite frequently.  Yeah, there's a lot to wanting to see a particular game called consistently, and if the refs aren't calling it early in the game, it can feel unfair for it to be called late in the game at a critical moment.  But, again, that happens all the time.  And it was the correct call, and it did happen in full view of a ref.  Not really a major issue.

[bosk1]

I know they have three other close calls in the last half decade, but only two championships does not a dynasty make.  If they get to three in the next season or two, we can talk, but until then, no way.

I was thinking similar, I'd want to see a third Super Bowl win before considering anyone a dynasty.

I tend to agree.  But then again, making it 3 out of 4 times, and being in serious contention for making it 4/4 is pretty impressive too, so I'm not sure I'd split hairs with anyone arguing for "dynasty" status if they are close again a couple more times over the next few years, even if they don't win another one.

[Dream Team]

Kev had briefly changed the thread title (tongue firmly in cheek) to Mahomes goat stuff. Nowhere near of course, but the comparison is interesting.

Looking at the playoff TD-INT, it's clear Pat was given the keys to the kingdom from the get-go and the team rides or dies with him. Brady came into a situation of defense and running game and "just don't screw it up". No comparison of difficulty level of those first 5 years, but Tom kept getting better and better and had that basically unstoppable peak as a passer from 2007-2012 beginning at age 30. But no rings during that peak; it's the ultimate team game.

Part has a chance to be well ahead of Tom by age 36 - but the reason Tom cemented GOAT status is what he did AFTER age 36. That's where it's a tremendous challenge. I have little doubt Pat will be ahead of Tom by age 36, but after that a LOT of things have to go right . . . . . Tom's legacy is secure anyway.

                                       Tom age 27, 5 seasons as starter                  Pat age 27, 5 seasons as starter
Total W/L                                   68 - 21 (.764)                                             75 - 19 (.798)
Pass YDs                                      18,035                                                         24,241
Pass TDs                                         123                                                             192
MVPs                                               0                                                                   2
Championship Games                        3                                                                   5
Super Bowls                                   3 - 0                                                              2 - 1
Playoff W/L                                   10 - 1                                                             11 - 3
Playoff TD/INT                              11 - 3                                                35 - 7
Ages 28-36                         0 Super Bowls, 9-8 playoff record, 2 MVPs                      ??
Ages 37-45                         4 Super Bowls, 17-5 playoff record 1 MVP            ??

[TheCountOfNYC]

I kind of like the idea of separating the generations, because there will always be bias towards who was the top guy when you were most into the game. Up until Brady won his seventh ring, there were still people who considered Montana the GOAT. I’m sure if we talk to some of our much older football fans, they’ll swear by Johnny Unitas. If we look at the game and how it evolved, obviously it’s unfair to compare the QB’s of the 70’s and 80’s to the QB’s of today, because back then defenses could essentially murder the entire offense without a flag and running backs were the kings of their offenses. This isn’t to discredit the accomplishments of modern players, as I consider Tom Brady the GOAT and think skill wise Peyton Manning is the best QB to ever do it, but it’s impossible to compare players from different eras because we have no idea how they would do if they played in an earlier or later generation. This is what will happen with guys like Mahomes, Allen, and Burrow, where they’ll need to not just surpass Brady and Manning but completely blow them out of the water for the fans who grew up watching in the 00’s and 10’s to concede that their heroes (or in my case villains) have been surpassed.

EDIT: To prove my point, right after I initially posted this comment, I went on Twitter and a photo came up comparing Mahomes and Brady at age 27 (so what Dream posted before me) and the first comment I saw under the picture was “How is that comparable? Different eras with different rules. Brady led the league in TDs in his first season as a passer, and it was with 28. That’s how much the NFL changes from 2002 to 2022”.

[King Postwhore]

I had season tickets for the Pats in the 2002 season.  I saw what you said Count on Brady leading the league in TD's.  I was like, "No way!"

Yup. He did. That's crazy.

[cramx3]

Daniel Jones wants 45 million?!  Good luck and see ya! Well, I guess that means he'll more likely get franchised, but given how Daboll helped Allen and now Jones, I think the Giants could draft another QB to develop and may not see the biggest drop off.  Jones had a great playoff game against Minnesota, but that does not mean he is worth anything more then 30-35 IMO.  Jones is not the person to break the salary cap over.

[El Barto]

Daniel Jones wants 45 million?!  Good luck and see ya! Well, I guess that means he'll more likely get franchised, but given how Daboll helped Allen and now Jones, I think the Giants could draft another QB to develop and may not see the biggest drop off.  Jones had a great playoff game against Minnesota, but that does not mean he is worth anything more then 30-35 IMO.  Jones is not the person to break the salary cap over.

Presumably he's aiming high to settle for less. I don't see him getting more than Cousins money. His problem is that he waited to long to not suck. NYG could have extended his contract last year, but there was no inclination that he'd stop sucking. Now they're suddenly scrambling to create cap room for a giant contract they didn't see coming. NY's problem is that it's entirely possible that he's the real deal. I remember when he was drafted there was an outside chance that NE would pick him up, as he was regarded as a real darkhorse, high-potential developmental prospect. I was disappointed that he didn't fall to NE. People laughed at the Giants for drafting him when they did (and I think they might have traded up to snag him), but they recognized the potential. He was just late to show it off. Now he's created a situation where people have to gamble big on him based on one good year.

[El Barto]

Tampa has staked out a big, giant home in cap hell. They're into BBB for $35m, and they're currently $55m over the cap. Hard not to have seen this coming, and they're first of several teams that'll wind up there. They helped create the idea of mortgaging years of your future to win now. It worked year one, obviously, but failed thereafter. Probably looking at a fire-sale to unload some contracts and stock up on some draft picks for the inevitable rebuild. In the meantime they've got no QB, a shaky coach, and no money.

[cramx3]

Daniel Jones wants 45 million?!  Good luck and see ya! Well, I guess that means he'll more likely get franchised, but given how Daboll helped Allen and now Jones, I think the Giants could draft another QB to develop and may not see the biggest drop off.  Jones had a great playoff game against Minnesota, but that does not mean he is worth anything more then 30-35 IMO.  Jones is not the person to break the salary cap over.

Presumably he's aiming high to settle for less. I don't see him getting more than Cousins money. His problem is that he waited to long to not suck. NYG could have extended his contract last year, but there was no inclination that he'd stop sucking. Now they're suddenly scrambling to create cap room for a giant contract they didn't see coming. NY's problem is that it's entirely possible that he's the real deal. I remember when he was drafted there was an outside chance that NE would pick him up, as he was regarded as a real darkhorse, high-potential developmental prospect. I was disappointed that he didn't fall to NE. People laughed at the Giants for drafting him when they did (and I think they might have traded up to snag him), but they recognized the potential. He was just late to show it off. Now he's created a situation where people have to gamble big on him based on one good year.

Yeah, I agree with what you are saying.  As much as he improved last year, who knows how much of that is sustainable for him and also, it's not like he had some good season.  Other than his rushing, he's a below average passer.  I understand some of that is the Giants having no WRs and a poor OL, but still, if he's going to suck up cap space, then they aren't going to be able to help him with surrounding talent.  I'm OK letting him leave or franchising him (assuming he won't sign for something much less than 45M)

[Stadler]

Kev had briefly changed the thread title (tongue firmly in cheek) to Mahomes goat stuff. Nowhere near of course, but the comparison is interesting.

Looking at the playoff TD-INT, it's clear Pat was given the keys to the kingdom from the get-go and the team rides or dies with him. Brady came into a situation of defense and running game and "just don't screw it up". No comparison of difficulty level of those first 5 years, but Tom kept getting better and better and had that basically unstoppable peak as a passer from 2007-2012 beginning at age 30. But no rings during that peak; it's the ultimate team game.

Part has a chance to be well ahead of Tom by age 36 - but the reason Tom cemented GOAT status is what he did AFTER age 36. That's where it's a tremendous challenge. I have little doubt Pat will be ahead of Tom by age 36, but after that a LOT of things have to go right . . . . . Tom's legacy is secure anyway.

                                       Tom age 27, 5 seasons as starter                  Pat age 27, 5 seasons as starter
Total W/L                                   68 - 21 (.764)                                             75 - 19 (.798)
Pass YDs                                      18,035                                                         24,241
Pass TDs                                         123                                                             192
MVPs                                               0                                                                   2
Championship Games                        3                                                                   5
Super Bowls                                   3 - 0                                                              2 - 1
Playoff W/L                                   10 - 1                                                             11 - 3
Playoff TD/INT                              11 - 3                                                35 - 7
Ages 28-36                         0 Super Bowls, 9-8 playoff record, 2 MVPs                      ??
Ages 37-45                         4 Super Bowls, 17-5 playoff record 1 MVP            ??

You know he HATES being called "Pat", right?  Not kidding, either; he, his wife and his mom have all referenced that at various times and with varying degrees of briskness.

[KevShmev]

It's amazing how full of shit the media is.  It apparently it is a travesty that Eric Bieniemy has never gotten the opportunity to be the head coach on an NFL team, and the question was often, "tell me why?"  Well, LeSean McCoy*, a former player who was coached by Bieniemy, came out the other day on live today and gave reasons why, and instead of listening and entertaining that maybe what he was saying had some truth in it, he is getting attacked from every direction by the sports media.  Typical.  Not to turn this political, but it reminds me of when Democrats trash Republicans for not being diverse enough, and then when  person of color speaks out as a Republican, they are called a traitor or, worse, an Uncle Tom.  There is simply no way to win with these people who want to scream that everything is about race.

And to reiterate so there is no confusion about my position, yes, there are still some race issues in this country, but the media always makes it 10 times worse than it really is, often by stirring the pot with crap like this, and the sports media is just as bad with it now as the news media. 

*As for McCoy, I think he is a jerk and a bully, and I stopped watching Speak (the FS1 show that I used to DVR and watch some clips of every night) because of him, as he is a bully, the others on the show are seemingly afraid to disagree with him too strongly (likely because they know how condescending he gets when you do not agree with him), and Acho constant fellating of him was too much to take (do we need to be told every segment when it is McCoy's turn to speak that he is the Eagles all-time rushing champ and a 2-time Super Bowl champ, the last distinction he got by being a backup who barely touched the ball on two teams that won it all lol).  But, as a former player who played under Bieniemy, maybe there is something to what he is saying, no? 

[Stadler]

It's amazing how full of shit the media is.  It apparently it is a travesty that Eric Bieniemy has never gotten the opportunity to be the head coach on an NFL team, and the question was often, "tell me why?"  Well, LeSean McCoy*, a former player who was coached by Bieniemy, came out the other day on live today and gave reasons why, and instead of listening and entertaining that maybe what he was saying had some truth in it, he is getting attacked from every direction by the sports media.  Typical.  Not to turn this political, but it reminds me of when Democrats trash Republicans for not being diverse enough, and then when  person of color speaks out as a Republican, they are called a traitor or, worse, an Uncle Tom.  There is simply no way to win with these people who want to scream that everything is about race.

And to reiterate so there is no confusion about my position, yes, there are still some race issues in this country, but the media always makes it 10 times worse than it really is, often by stirring the pot with crap like this, and the sports media is just as bad with it now as the news media. 

*As for McCoy, I think he is a jerk and a bully, and I stopped watching Speak (the FS1 show that I used to DVR and watch some clips of every night) because of him, as he is a bully, the others on the show are seemingly afraid to disagree with him too strongly (likely because they know how condescending he gets when you do not agree with him), and Acho constant fellating of him was too much to take (do we need to be told every segment when it is McCoy's turn to speak that he is the Eagles all-time rushing champ and a 2-time Super Bowl champ, the last distinction he got by being a backup who barely touched the ball on two teams that won it all lol).  But, as a former player who played under Bieniemy, maybe there is something to what he is saying, no?

I'm with you 100%.  The fact is, if an owner thought he would win as HC, he would be hired, full stop.  Granted, I can accept that there might - MIGHT - be reasons that an owner might not think that that aren't valid, but as long as Lovie Smith and Brian Flores and Todd Bowles continue to get jobs, this idea that the primary factor against Eric Bieniemy is "race" is just unsubstantiated propaganda.

[lordxizor]

It's amazing how full of shit the media is.  It apparently it is a travesty that Eric Bieniemy has never gotten the opportunity to be the head coach on an NFL team, and the question was often, "tell me why?"  Well, LeSean McCoy*, a former player who was coached by Bieniemy, came out the other day on live today and gave reasons why, and instead of listening and entertaining that maybe what he was saying had some truth in it, he is getting attacked from every direction by the sports media.  Typical.  Not to turn this political, but it reminds me of when Democrats trash Republicans for not being diverse enough, and then when  person of color speaks out as a Republican, they are called a traitor or, worse, an Uncle Tom.  There is simply no way to win with these people who want to scream that everything is about race.

And to reiterate so there is no confusion about my position, yes, there are still some race issues in this country, but the media always makes it 10 times worse than it really is, often by stirring the pot with crap like this, and the sports media is just as bad with it now as the news media. 

*As for McCoy, I think he is a jerk and a bully, and I stopped watching Speak (the FS1 show that I used to DVR and watch some clips of every night) because of him, as he is a bully, the others on the show are seemingly afraid to disagree with him too strongly (likely because they know how condescending he gets when you do not agree with him), and Acho constant fellating of him was too much to take (do we need to be told every segment when it is McCoy's turn to speak that he is the Eagles all-time rushing champ and a 2-time Super Bowl champ, the last distinction he got by being a backup who barely touched the ball on two teams that won it all lol).  But, as a former player who played under Bieniemy, maybe there is something to what he is saying, no?

I'm with you 100%.  The fact is, if an owner thought he would win as HC, he would be hired, full stop.  Granted, I can accept that there might - MIGHT - be reasons that an owner might not think that that aren't valid, but as long as Lovie Smith and Brian Flores and Todd Bowles continue to get jobs, this idea that the primary factor against Eric Bieniemy is "race" is just unsubstantiated propaganda.

I read something about this a few days ago, and they said the consensus is that Bieniemy "doesn't interview well". Maybe... just maybe that's why he hasn't gotten a head coaching job.

[Stadler]

It's amazing how full of shit the media is.  It apparently it is a travesty that Eric Bieniemy has never gotten the opportunity to be the head coach on an NFL team, and the question was often, "tell me why?"  Well, LeSean McCoy*, a former player who was coached by Bieniemy, came out the other day on live today and gave reasons why, and instead of listening and entertaining that maybe what he was saying had some truth in it, he is getting attacked from every direction by the sports media.  Typical.  Not to turn this political, but it reminds me of when Democrats trash Republicans for not being diverse enough, and then when  person of color speaks out as a Republican, they are called a traitor or, worse, an Uncle Tom.  There is simply no way to win with these people who want to scream that everything is about race.

And to reiterate so there is no confusion about my position, yes, there are still some race issues in this country, but the media always makes it 10 times worse than it really is, often by stirring the pot with crap like this, and the sports media is just as bad with it now as the news media. 

*As for McCoy, I think he is a jerk and a bully, and I stopped watching Speak (the FS1 show that I used to DVR and watch some clips of every night) because of him, as he is a bully, the others on the show are seemingly afraid to disagree with him too strongly (likely because they know how condescending he gets when you do not agree with him), and Acho constant fellating of him was too much to take (do we need to be told every segment when it is McCoy's turn to speak that he is the Eagles all-time rushing champ and a 2-time Super Bowl champ, the last distinction he got by being a backup who barely touched the ball on two teams that won it all lol).  But, as a former player who played under Bieniemy, maybe there is something to what he is saying, no?

I'm with you 100%.  The fact is, if an owner thought he would win as HC, he would be hired, full stop.  Granted, I can accept that there might - MIGHT - be reasons that an owner might not think that that aren't valid, but as long as Lovie Smith and Brian Flores and Todd Bowles continue to get jobs, this idea that the primary factor against Eric Bieniemy is "race" is just unsubstantiated propaganda.

I read something about this a few days ago, and they said the consensus is that Bieniemy "doesn't interview well". Maybe... just maybe that's why he hasn't gotten a head coaching job.

it's not bullshit. I've had that criticism leveled against me in my early career.  I can think of three different occasions where I was recommended for a job, did the interview and the feedback came back that there was "no energy, no enthusiasm".  I (think I) worked through it, but nonetheless, that's your showcase.  If you can't rise to that pressured, stressful occasion, then I can't blame an owner for not giving you the keys to what might be a $2 BILLION dollar ship.

From working at GE, I learned first hand that there is sometimes a HUGE difference in being No. 1 and No. 2.   How many times have we said "the buck stops with the Head Coach".  We just had this conversation ad nauseam with Belichick re: Patricia. 

[KevShmev]

Yep, like Silvio one said on The Sopranos, "some guys are better at being numbers 2s than number 1s."  Of course, with coaching especially, it is impossible to know beforehand which number 2 (or 3 or 4) will be a good number 1, which is why halfwits like Nathaniel Hackett get shots at being a head coach.  I have no doubt that plenty of rich white owners don't really want a black guy to be their head coach (see: Jerry Jones), but not sure what the answer here is.  Plenty of black coaches ARE given the opportunity to be a head coach, so not sure what makes Eric Bieniemy so special to where him not being given a chance is the crime of the century.

[bosk1]

Not too different from the Kaepernick situation in many respects. 

[Dream Team]

Saw a pretty crazy fact posted yesterday on twitter, of the 57 teams to win the Super Bowl, 54 of them had at least one game in their playoff run where the defense held the opposition to under 20 points. The exceptions?

1981 Niners
2019 Chiefs
2022 Chiefs

It’s safe to say no QB in history leans less on his defense than #15.

[King Postwhore]

I would say we now live in the offensive era where the calls favor the offensive.  So it might not be a surprise that a team might be lead to win SB'S by offenses. 

We'll never see an 85 Bears or 00 Ravens again.