2022 NFL Thread (Chiefs win Super Bowl 57)

[ReaPsTA]

To the people who say - "It was a penalty, so it should have been called" - If you consistently call those kinds of penalties, there would be a penalty on every play. The refs already have to make judgement calls on when to call and not call penalties. If we accept that the refs are doing that, then why is that particular place in the game the right time to call the penalty?

I will give you all one thing, though. The whole "sore winners" trend needs to stop. Travis Kelce might be the most annoying man in sports. "No one believed we could do it?" Come on. Being a 1.5 point underdog does not give mean you should feel persecuted.

Because this is how the players motivate themselves to want to win. Michael Jordan was notorious for constantly creating stories in his head about how he was disrespected, even though you won't find an athlete, even in his day, more universally acclaimed.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

To the people who say - "It was a penalty, so it should have been called" - If you consistently call those kinds of penalties, there would be a penalty on every play. The refs already have to make judgement calls on when to call and not call penalties. If we accept that the refs are doing that, then why is that particular place in the game the right time to call the penalty?

I will give you all one thing, though. The whole "sore winners" trend needs to stop. Travis Kelce might be the most annoying man in sports. "No one believed we could do it?" Come on. Being a 1.5 point underdog does not give mean you should feel persecuted.

Because this is how the players motivate themselves to want to win. Michael Jordan was notorious for constantly creating stories in his head about how he was disrespected, even though you won't find an athlete, even in his day, more universally acclaimed.

Correct. There are some things that happen on *almost* every play. Offensive holding is another example. Offensive pass interference is another thing that often happens but is rarely called. It's about egregiousness and consistency. The refs establish a baseline this and it was just a headscratcher last night and totally off in the AFC game.

[lonestar]

I'm just pissed KC didn't go for 6,that would've been 400 for me.

[Skeever]

I think it's bullshit to say "this happened every single play". Do we know that? Lots of people spent the night reviewing the full 22, it seems. Also, I'm failing to buy the idea that the refs shafted Philly. Just because we don't understand the full thought that went in to throwing a flag on an actual penalty there, doesn't mean that there was something nefarious behind it.

[KevShmev]

But see how clever the NFL is!

The talk today should be about how awful the field was (how does a city have that much time to prepare for the Super Bowl and then end up with a field that bad??), but because of the penalty at the end of the game, no one is talking about.  Genius. /tin foil hat

[ReaPsTA]

I think it's bullshit to say "this happened every single play". Do we know that? Lots of people spent the night reviewing the full 22, it seems. Also, I'm failing to buy the idea that the refs shafted Philly. Just because we don't understand the full thought that went in to throwing a flag on an actual penalty there, doesn't mean that there was something nefarious behind it.

I think it's one or both of the following:

 - Refs have historically called superstars leniently for a number of reasons. Mahomes complained for a penalty and a late flag was thrown. Doesn't require there to be nefarious intent

 - Stupidity. Refs train themselves to call games soft because the league wants scoring. A circuit fired at the wrong time to throw a first half flag in a fourth quarter situation

[DragonAttack]

But see how clever the NFL is!

The talk today should be about how awful the field was (how does a city have that much time to prepare for the Super Bowl and then end up with a field that bad??), but because of the penalty at the end of the game, no one is talking about.  Genius. /tin foil hat

This was going to be part of my write up 

Scott Van Pelt mentioned last night that the same problems existed years ago there for the NCAA title game between Auburn-Oregon (I didn't watch, so I can't confirm).  I mean, they only had five weeks to prep it correctly.....

And then let whatever halftime show takes place make things worse

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think it's bullshit to say "this happened every single play". Do we know that? Lots of people spent the night reviewing the full 22, it seems. Also, I'm failing to buy the idea that the refs shafted Philly. Just because we don't understand the full thought that went in to throwing a flag on an actual penalty there, doesn't mean that there was something nefarious behind it.

I mean, yes. If you watch football regularly you will see that there is holding (defensive and offensive) all the time. The offensive holdings are even more frequent and on virtually every play.

Again, it's a matter of egregiousness. There was one play last night in which the ball was thrown in the endzone and coverage was very tight. Might have been Bradberry in coverage again. There was contact so I guess technically one could have thrown a defensive PI flag. However, because the defender got his head around and was looking for the ball and the contact was deemed not material, there was no penalty. It's a matter of judgement because at a certain point, if you're going to be able to have an actual game, you cannot throw a penalty flag every time there is contact.

[Skeever]

I think it's bullshit to say "this happened every single play". Do we know that? Lots of people spent the night reviewing the full 22, it seems. Also, I'm failing to buy the idea that the refs shafted Philly. Just because we don't understand the full thought that went in to throwing a flag on an actual penalty there, doesn't mean that there was something nefarious behind it.

I mean, yes. If you watch football regularly you will see that there is holding (defensive and offensive) all the time. The offensive holdings are even more frequent and on virtually every play.

I watched 3-4 games per week, almost always, during the NFL season. And I have no idea what you are talking about. Also, what you are saying may be true about offensive holding, but that is not the same thing as defensive holding, especially in the redzone at a critical time.

What if the refs DON'T call that, Philly scores, and eventually then game goes the other way? Unlikely, given the Chiefs were strongly outplaying them by that time, but wow we're all watching reals about the blown missed call of flagrant defensive holding in the Red Zone on a critical play.

[gmillerdrake]

Correct. There are some things that happen on *almost* every play. Offensive holding is another example. Offensive pass interference is another thing that often happens but is rarely called. It's about egregiousness and consistency. The refs establish a baseline this and it was just a headscratcher last night and totally off in the AFC game.

Mahommes little 25 yard run certainly had one or two of his O Line that with a firm grip on some jerseys that were most likely way more egregious than that love tap that was called on the Eagles. So the D Back admitted to a tug.....that happens on every play by every defender at the line and could be called on every play.

Folks like me aren't arguing that it wasn't a penalty.....the argument is up until that point the refs had largely let both teams play and what do you know.....it was a great game. But it was ruined by that call and just added to the fuel that feeds what a joke the NFL is. 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think it's bullshit to say "this happened every single play". Do we know that? Lots of people spent the night reviewing the full 22, it seems. Also, I'm failing to buy the idea that the refs shafted Philly. Just because we don't understand the full thought that went in to throwing a flag on an actual penalty there, doesn't mean that there was something nefarious behind it.

I mean, yes. If you watch football regularly you will see that there is holding (defensive and offensive) all the time. The offensive holdings are even more frequent and on virtually every play.

I watched 3-4 games per week, almost always, during the NFL season. And I have no idea what you are talking about. Also, what you are saying may be true about offensive holding, but that is not the same thing as defensive holding, especially in the redzone at a critical time.

What if the refs DON'T call that, Philly scores, and eventually then game goes the other way? Unlikely, given the Chiefs were strongly outplaying them by that time, but wow we're all watching reals about the blown missed call of flagrant defensive holding in the Red Zone on a critical play.

A non-call was the correct one. It had no impact on the play and the ball went far enough ahead of him that a small tug didn't impair his ability to make a catch. It wasn't a "flagrant" holding. It was normal game contact. You even have some WRs coming out and saying it's not DH.

[Grappler]

I was hoping the Eagles would win - TJ Edwards grew up on my street and went to my kids' school.  So it was fun to root for a local kid, and he had a great tackle on Mahomes (re-aggrivating the ankle in the process) and a lot of open-field tackles last night.  He played great, but they just couldn't get it done. 

[El Barto]

REap quite correctly says that the holding was a judgment call. These calls happen all the damn time. Yet the assumption is that when a judgment call goes a different way than what we approve of it's not an error in judgment but the NFL rigging the game. The problem with conspiracies is that people always tend to jump towards the feelgood answer rather than the most likely one. In this case the ref who was 10' away thought it was a legitimate holding penalty and threw the flag. It's really quite simple.

And for fuck's sake, if you really think that Roger Goodell is actually Vince McMahon pulling the strings and writing scripts for each season, QUIT WATCHING THE DAMN GAME! It's not for you.

Mahomes ankle has some miracle spray on it.

Or he was overplaying it at the end of the half.

Yup, I'd bet his doctors are going to say something along the lines of "glad you won, but man you fucked this thing up good"... Wonder how much further damage he did to it.

I was actually suggesting that maybe he wasn't hurt as badly as he made it out to be at the end of the half. There's no question that Phili played a different game in the second half than they did in the first.

[KevShmev]

I guess we'll see what happens with Terry Bradshaw after he basically called Andy Reid fat on live TV after the game.  I think Bradshaw is the NFL's version of Charles Barkley in that everyone knows he says offensive stuff and it is accepted because it is part of his brand, but that one might have been over the line, even for him.  Plus, Bradshaw, in his old age, isn't as charismatic as Sir Charles, so he likely doesn't have as much rope as Barkley does.

[cramx3]

It sucks the game, which was a good game overall, ends with a penalty, but while a ticky tacky penalty it was, it was still a penalty.

[ReaPsTA]

There's no question that Phili played a different game in the second half than they did in the first.

The KC coaching staff prepped/adjusted better. You could see it most obviously in that motion play the Chiefs ran where they ran the guy toward the line and had him cut back at the snap. They figured out the zone coverage the Eagles were running and found every hole possible.

[KevShmev]

Yep, Andy Reid took the Eagles coaching staff to school in that second half.  Look at KC's last two touchdowns.  Both were inside the 10 and both went to receivers who were wide open in space to where they could have dropped to the ground and crawled into the end zone untouched.  Great play design by Reid in both cases.

[faizoff]

Travis Kelce has said in previous interviews when everyone keeps asking him how he gets so open all the time, "It's all Andy Reid's doing"

[Skeever]

I guess we'll see what happens with Terry Bradshaw after he basically called Andy Reid fat on live TV after the game.  I think Bradshaw is the NFL's version of Charles Barkley in that everyone knows he says offensive stuff and it is accepted because it is part of his brand, but that one might have been over the line, even for him.  Plus, Bradshaw, in his old age, isn't as charismatic as Sir Charles, so he likely doesn't have as much rope as Barkley does.

I don't think Andy Reid was really bothered by it. They seemed to be having a good time. These are old ballplayers and coaches talking to each other. Also, Andy Reid doesn't drink, and has been open about his love of cheeseburgers.

[lordxizor]

Let's ignore for the moment the tick-tackiness of that holding call. Here's my bigger beef:

Why does defensive holding result in an automatic first down which offensive holding is a 10 yard penalty? They should both just be a 10 yard penalty. Yes, I know in this particular situation it would have given the Chiefs a first down anyway since it was 3rd and 8, but that has always bugged me.

[lonestar]

I always felt these things happen with a higher frequency at the end of big games because the refs are more hyper-focused to make sure they get it right. In the middle of the season, in a blowout game, that hold would probably slide, but at the biggest moment the refs are on top of every detail.

Just speculating

[DragonAttack]

Let's ignore for the moment the tick-tackiness of that holding call. Here's my bigger beef:

Why does defensive holding result in an automatic first down which offensive holding is a 10 yard penalty? They should both just be a 10 yard penalty. Yes, I know in this particular situation it would have given the Chiefs a first down anyway since it was 3rd and 8, but that has always bugged me.

It used to be a 15 yard penalty from the spot of the foul for offensive holding.  As was intentional grounding, plus loss of play.  Talk about brutal!

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Let's ignore for the moment the tick-tackiness of that holding call. Here's my bigger beef:

Why does defensive holding result in an automatic first down which offensive holding is a 10 yard penalty? They should both just be a 10 yard penalty. Yes, I know in this particular situation it would have given the Chiefs a first down anyway since it was 3rd and 8, but that has always bugged me.

To increase the scoring because that is what drives views, ratings, and subsequent revenue (i.e., gambling).

You could end up with a situation in which the offense is 4th and 15, let's say. The defender has no incentive not to hold if he isn't in danger of giving up a fresh set of downs for the penalty. I could see wanting to avoid this. At the end of the day, it is a trade off as to which side of the ball you're going to give the edge to.

[ReaPsTA]

Let's ignore for the moment the tick-tackiness of that holding call. Here's my bigger beef:

Why does defensive holding result in an automatic first down which offensive holding is a 10 yard penalty? They should both just be a 10 yard penalty. Yes, I know in this particular situation it would have given the Chiefs a first down anyway since it was 3rd and 8, but that has always bugged me.

To increase the scoring because that is what drives views, ratings, and subsequent revenue (i.e., gambling).

You could end up with a situation in which the offense is 4th and 15, let's say. The defender has no incentive not to hold if he isn't in danger of giving up a fresh set of downs for the penalty. I could see wanting to avoid this. At the end of the day, it is a trade off as to which side of the ball you're going to give the edge to.

I would not attribute this to juicing the score.

Because of YAC, a pass interference can change the drive and thus the game. Actual pass interference has to be punished harshly or, as you said, there would be no incentive not to do it.

[kaos2900]

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.espn.com%2Fnfl%2Fstory%2F_%2Fid%2F35649198%2Fhow-patrick-mahomes-chiefs-played-perfect-second-half-super-bowl-2023-nfl-win-jalen-hurts-eagles&data=05%7C01%7C%7C7d26a992e72d45edd74f08db0de6f46f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638119057813277162%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fHDzOksyn%2BKc3KhfkcXW0SITbKiPAFV%2FqZPrXiieCoQ%3D&reserved=0

[Stadler]

But see how clever the NFL is!

The talk today should be about how awful the field was (how does a city have that much time to prepare for the Super Bowl and then end up with a field that bad??), but because of the penalty at the end of the game, no one is talking about.  Genius. /tin foil hat

This was going to be part of my write up 

Scott Van Pelt mentioned last night that the same problems existed years ago there for the NCAA title game between Auburn-Oregon (I didn't watch, so I can't confirm).  I mean, they only had five weeks to prep it correctly.....

And then let whatever halftime show takes place make things worse

Didn't Butker or someone actually get hurt early this season on that field?  I know the Chiefs logged a complaint after their early season game there.

[Stadler]

Any favorite commercials?

I liked the Rock Star one ("Hi, my name is Ozwald.") and the Amazon dog crate one (that one hit close to home for me and my family).  I thought the CaddyShack ones were lame-o. 

[Skeever]

I thought "Premature Electrification" was hilarious. Kinda awful (go buy our gas guzzling pickup to own the libs and prove you're a man who can keep it up!), but gotta give them props. It was smart, and funny.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

This whole thing makes me think about the missed call a week or two ago where LeBron was clearly hit on the shooting arm by Tatum, but there was no call. In that case, it seemed like the refs had decided to simply not call a foul on the last play no matter what happened. People were super pissed that call was missed.

In last night's case, the ref made a call that wasn't quite as clear but it wasn't like an egregiously blown call (I think it was correct based on the rule book? Someone correct me if I'm wrong...) but people were pissed because they didn't want the refs deciding the game.

I'm not here to defend bad referring (because there's a lot of it) but it does seem like an incredibly difficult balance to strike between "make sure to call the super obvious penalties but don't call non-obvious penalties even if they are technically penalties". Perhaps adding more replay would help but that only slows down the game and people don't even agree with the replay decisions half the time.

I thought "Premature Electrification" was hilarious. Kinda awful (go buy our gas guzzling pickup to own the libs and prove you're a man who can keep it up!), but gotta give them props. It was smart, and funny.

That commercial was just amazing. And that's coming from someone who is pretty liberal. I just about died laughing.

[DragonAttack]

Any favorite commercials?

I liked the Rock Star one ("Hi, my name is Ozwald.") and the Amazon dog crate one (that one hit close to home for me and my family).  I thought the CaddyShack ones were lame-o.

Paul Stanley being in the Rock Star one didn't sway your choice in any way, did it?    Yeah, that was good.   

Alicia Silverstone's 'Clueless' recreation for Rakuten (whatever that is)  was well done.

The 'Farmer's Dog' commercial:  Iames did one similarly well done and tear jerking years ago with a little girl and puppy, the girl ages to a college student with long hair, and the Golden Retriever semi struggles up steps and has noticeably turned gray in the face.  Our eight year old cocker is showing those same signs   :'(

Pop Corners:  bring back Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul for a 'Breaking Bad' reunion, add Tuco to the mix, and ....   nothing else came close.

I thought "Premature Electrification" was hilarious. Kinda awful (go buy our gas guzzling pickup to own the libs and prove you're a man who can keep it up!), but gotta give them props. It was smart, and funny.

Oh, yeah, that was clever as all hell. (we miss Jason Jones and his 'Daily Show' segments).  But...it was about their future electric truck, and how it will be so much better than what is currently available.

The 'Scrubs' pair (who we love) with Travolta for T-Mobile was cringe worthy.  Man, he needs to grow back his hair and get rid of the beard.

The rest....I would leave the room and fix food, take out the trash, or read segments of a great book by Lonn Friend called 'Life On The Planet Rock'

[cramx3]

I must say, another year where I am unimpressed with the commercials.  It's become way too much of having the most celebrities and not enough creativity. I don't think a single commercial made me laugh.  Some were, of course, better than others.  I actually somehow didn't see the rock star commercial so maybe that would have interested me.  The Ben Affleck working the drive through was probably my favorite.

[Lethean]

I don't like Kiss and I loved the rockstar commercial.  I've thought the same thing myself hearing it thrown around at work, so they totally read my mind and stole my idea.

Also, I liked seeing The Undertaker for 5 seconds (draft kings commercial).

[faizoff]

I thought the Pepsi ads with Steve Martin and Ben Stiller were great.

The Breaking Bad one was probably my favorite.

[Stadler]

I thought "Premature Electrification" was hilarious. Kinda awful (go buy our gas guzzling pickup to own the libs and prove you're a man who can keep it up!), but gotta give them props. It was smart, and funny.

I forgot that one; you're right.  The cute girl at the end: "Start and stop. Start and stop. Start.  Stop." was priceless.

For the record, I didn't take even one IOTA of "libs/politics" from that commercial. Maybe a LITTLE bit of the wussy Prius perception of electric cars.   To me, it was more of a dig at the perception of the majority of Americans that it's untested, incomplete technology. 

[Stadler]

Paul Stanley being in the Rock Star one didn't sway your choice in any way, did it?    Yeah, that was good.   

Of course it did; but it was really Ozzy that kicked it over the top (big fan of Joan Jett and Gary Clark, Jr., too).

Pop Corners:  bring back Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul for a 'Breaking Bad' reunion, add Tuco to the mix, and ....   nothing else came close.

Another good one I forgot.  "Six flavors!"  "MAKE SEVEN!"

The 'Scrubs' pair (who we love) with Travolta for T-Mobile was cringe worthy.  Man, he needs to grow back his hair and get rid of the beard.

I'm the opposite; I love Travolta, and like his look (he can't hit the high notes, though) but I think Zack Braff is ANNOYING AF and I'm not a fan of the bromance with Donald Faison.  I like Donald, but Braff is so annoying he makes both annoying.