*Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread

[Stadler]

Mine would be
1. Events
2. Time
3. Theater
4. View
5. Astonish

All albums are 9/10 for me, just varying degrees of preference.

Switch "View" and "Dream Theater" and lower the score a bit (they're probably solid 7.5 or 8's for me) and that's me.

[TAC]

1. ADTOE
2. AVFTTOTW
3. TA
4. DoT
5. DT12

[nick_z]

1. Dream Theater
2. A View from the Top of the World
3. A Dramatic Turn of Events
4. Distance Over Time
5. The Astonishing

2/3/4 are VERY close, and their positions are fluid (in fact, I believe at the time of the DT album countdown, I had DoT above ADToE...they were ranked one after the other anyway). The Astonishing might be the "least favorite" here, but I like it a lot and its highs are pretty amazing.

[Glasser]

I can't wait for a live album from this tour.

Did they say that they’re doing one on this tour?

No but I'm hoping for an announcement soon that they are. I just have a good feeling.

This sounds like an informed opinion.

I just hung up with John Myung and he said.....



 

******  I do not have an informed opinion, just hoping.

[Madman Shepherd]

Tie: ADTOE/DoT


AVFTTOTW



s/t












The Astonishing

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Being pretty unfamiliar with half of DT's MM-era stuff still, how would you guys rank it from ADTOE onward?

From what I have heard:

1. ADTOE
2. s/t
3. View

You're getting a range of opinions here but I'll chime in with mine and try to explain why. For reference, I&W is my favorite DT album and if that is 10/10, then here are my MM-era rankings:

1. A Dramatic Turn of Events (9.25/10) - why? maybe because it reminds me most of I&W. 1 point lower because of track 2, which I can't stand and doesn't even fit in with the rest of the album, and I didn't love the mix. Also my interest in the band was waning after what I consider to be a low point of 3 duds in a row: 8VM, SC, and BCSL. So to reflect for a moment, the band had put out 3 albums that I did not love; one of my favorite drummers left; we watched this audition process. I am lying in bed with no clue what to expect and the first track I hear is Breaking All Illusions. I nearly wept because after years of frustration, DT finally came back to their roots and gave me what I wanted to hear all along. This album is like the Mangini-era I&W companion. It's only a shame he wasn't around for the writing process because if the band had unleashed him on this album who knows how much better it could have been.

2. Distance Over Time (8.75/10) - similar to the above, we'd just came off a clunker of an album. I honestly was confused about what was happening in DT land and was very nervous about hearing this. It was another 'DT was back' moment but it wasn't like ADTOE. DoT reminded me of the self titled album: aggressive, shorter songs, great drumming that's very identifiable to MM, with better production.

3. Dream Theater self titled (8.5/10) - I think this one put the stamp on the MM era sound after ADTOE. This was the one that the band said would display MM unleashed and that's what we got. The drumming is way more creative in my view than what we got on the predecessor. You can really hear the contrast between Portnoy's style and Mangini's and you can't help but notice a different person is in the band. In my view, it was like going from very good reliable Subaru to a Porsche. I think Illumination Theory is one of the best tracks of the MM era. The rest of the album is very good too, but for me the highs were not as high as Barstool Warrior, Pale Blue Dot, and most of Wit's End.

4. View From the Top of the World (8/10) - it's a very good album. It made perfect sense coming out of Distance Over Time and you could listen to them one after the other and it would all sound cohesive - main difference being song length. The songs all make sense with one another on View. There are no duds - although I don't love Sleeping Giant or Invisible Monster - and everything is either good or great DT. My only complaint is that it was a little too predictable (?) if you know what I mean. It was really as by-the-book as you could get after DoT.

5. The Astonishing (2/10) - points for idea and effort. I am not going to crap on this album here because this is not the place for that. I am just going to say that when I order fancy sushi, I don't expect to open the bag and smell Cheesecake Factory. I am not saying don't listen to it. Listen to it; just get rid of any pre-conceived notions. That is hard to do after 12 albums but I just don't hear how the album fits into the catalogue at all. It's my least favorite album of any DT era.

In summary, the middle three albums are the best representation of the MM-era Dream Theater sound. They make perfect sense together. If you like one, go spend more time with the other two. ADTOE and Astonishing are different; the band was trying to do something very specific. ADTOE was their attempt to calm the fanbase and preemptively do damage control after pandora's box was opened. The Astonishing was John and Jordan's musical theater project that for some strange reason they thought should be released in Dream Theater packaging. The other 3 are just DT having fun doing the new DT. Hope you enjoy them as much as I do!

[Glasser]

1) View.
2) S/T.
3) ADToE.
4) DoT
5) The Astonishing.

2 and 3 are interchangeable depending on my mood.

[crystalstars17]

AVFTTOTW skyrocketed to #2 for me and it's still there, right behind the iconic I&W. DoT is #3. Others, interchangeable.

Idk if it was partially the timing of this album (as we were coming out of the pandemic) that made it so meaningful, but having a new DT album come out at that time was a saving grace. It's also loaded with iconic moments (mentioned below in this thread) that make it a keeper for the ages.

[nobloodyname]

I will give it that it has a unique vibe. It's just that it doesn't have any staying power and lacks defining moments that was a hallmark of the DT of old.

I think it's a perfectly fine and enjoyable album but it certainly lacks the diversity present in some of their earlier albums. I think that's mostly down to the secret sauce that was lost a few years ago.

Okay, but does have an album have to be diverse to be worthy and/or great? I would say no.  Sometimes, an album can be great by capturing a vibe and staying in it for the duration.  On the flip side, Octavarium is probably one of their most diverse albums from a stylistic song to song standpoint, but I still view it as one of their least best.  (I would take probably the five best songs off A View... over every song from Octavarium that isn't called Octavarium)

Definitely not, no.

As for Octavarium, the diversity of the songs was fabulous. It's a great album.

[nobloodyname]

1) A Dramatic Turn of Events (8.0)
2) A View from the Top of the World (7.5)
3) Distance Over Time (7)
4) Dream Theater (5)
5) The Astonishing (3)

I listened to The Astonishing again last week. And my experience went the same way it always does: the first 20/30 minutes or so is fine then it feels like it becomes death by ballad after ballad. The first half of the album feels twice the length as a result. And the second part doesn't really do an awful lot to pick it back up. I just... I just wish this wasn't a Dream Theater album. It's a shame it wasn't released as a special project with guest vocalists. That would have given it a lift. But we've had this discussion to death.

[krands85]

1. ADTOE
=2. D/T, AVFTTOTW
4. TA
5. DT12

[Zantera]

I'm not overly fond of either of the 5 and they would be towards the bottom of my discography rankings, but if i had to rank them, something like this:

1. AVFtTotW - maybe the fact it's the most recent plays a small part but i thought it was pretty decent. the alien was a very solid first song in my opinion and while it doesn't have that many individual standout tracks for me, as a whole it felt like an easier listening experience than some of the other ones. even the epic i thought was solid.

2. DoT - another solid entry that maybe falls a bit too often into the 'dreamtallica' territory. but some solid songs and nothing that really drags it down. i also kinda love the fact that it doesn't have any songs over 10 minutes.

3. ADTOE - while time hasn't been that kind to it for me and the shine has worn off a bit, it still has a few songs that feel like the last echoes of classic DT. breaking all illusions and on the backs of angels are both very solid, and i have a soft spot for beneath the surface. not a huge fan of the middle chunk of the album though.

4. DT12 - it's unfortunate when a self-titled album ends up being pretty boring but here we are. the enemy inside is solid and along for the ride is cheesy fun, but most of the album drags for me and it isn't helped by illumination theory which just feels like a slog to get through.

5. The Astonishing - i was hyped for it initially because i've been hoping for an album with shorter songs from them. more songs like 6:00 or caught in a web or other earlier DT songs that weren't 8-9 minutes or longer. unfortunately there's 2 ½ hours and 35-40 songs here and it's a chore to get through with very little reward in my book.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

This is fun! Honestly, I don't think there's a ton of separation between MM albums. I'd probably rank all of them as being in the same tier - Good, with some great moments, but not approaching the heights of the "Big Four".

The Astonishing is an odd one. I would probably put that in its own category, but not necessarily above or below anything else, rather more off to the side. When I'm in the mood for it, I love it, but you're only in the mood for a two-hour prog rock musical once in a blue moon.

If I had to choose a single MM album as my favorite... I would probably choose A Dramatic Turn of Events.

[TAC]

The Astonishing is an odd one. I would probably put that in its own category, but not necessarily above or below anything else, rather more off to the side. When I'm in the mood for it, I love it, but you're only in the mood for a two-hour prog rock musical once in a blue moon.

I put The Astonishing in the same category as Six Degrees. A condensed version with half the songs on each would be damn great, and a condensed version with the rest of the songs would be at the bottom of the list. If I have to take both as a whole, then they'd be right in the middle.

[pg1067]

Being pretty unfamiliar with half of DT's MM-era stuff still, how would you guys rank it from ADTOE onward?

1. DT12 (7) - Not a bad song on the album.  Everything is fresh.
2. ADTOE (8) - A solid album with the best MM-era song.  However, there's a bunch of bloat.
3. DOT (11) - Decent, but nothing super memorable.  Unlike a lot of folks, neither AWE nor PBD really resonated with me.
4. View (13) - More of the same.  Super technical but not very progressive.
5. TA (15) - So much bloat and sameness.  Derivative, cheesy story.

The numbers in parentheses are where I ranked each album in the overall catalog.

[Setlist Scotty]

Being pretty unfamiliar with half of DT's MM-era stuff still, how would you guys rank it from ADTOE onward?

I'd rate them as:
1. AVFtTotW - mid/upper tier (in comparison to DT's catalog as a whole)
2. d/t - mid/upper tier
3. s/t - mid tier
4. ADToE - mid tier
5. TA - bottom tier

[nikatapi]

My rating

1. A View From The Top Of The World 
    Best sounding album of this era, great songs
2. A Dramatic Turn Of Events               
    It has "Breaking All Illusions", need i say more?
3. Distance Over Time                         
    Pretty solid overall, i love "Barstool Warrior" and "At Wit's End"
4. The Astonishing
    I like it for what it is, though it doesn't have the same replay value as the songs work better in the entire album flow
5. Dream Theater
    A decent album ruined by bad production decisions. Second worst sounding DT album after WDADU in my opinion, the fart-like snare ruins it even though there are also some great songs included in this album.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

For what it is worth, some time ago they offered higher quality audio files for DT12. That is only version I listen to and it is like night and day vs. the CD.

[nikatapi]

Definitely better in terms of compression, but the snare tuning really throws me off.

[Kram]

1. ADTOE
2. DOT
3. AVFTTOTW
4. TA
5. DT12

[fadetoblackdude7]

ADTOE
AVFTTOTW
DOT
DT12
TA

[Trav86]

- A Dramatic Turn of Events
Closer to classic DT to me as it is more adventurous compared to what’s to come (The Astonishing aside). No weak tracks. BAI is a top 5 track and this is a top 5 album.

- A View from the Top of the World
A drop for sure. No real weak songs, but nothing amazing. The Alien is the closest to being an essential track. They’re fully into their sound now. Nothing new, just staying in their lane.

- Distance Over Time
After TA they basically went back to the s/t formula. Except some stronger songs, and no epic. Paralyzed, Room 137, S2N and Viper King do nothing for me. I’ve listened to this album I don’t know how many times and I can barely recite a melody or a lyric from any of those. The rest of the album is pretty good.

- Dream Theater
First of all, IT is their worst epic. It’s boring, cut and paste, and just uninspiring. The most interesting part is when Mike and JM are copying Rush. For the rest of the album, it’s just like the cover and title. No character or personality. I don’t even know how else to explain it.

- The Astonishing
I won’t mention anything about the story and lyrics. That dead horse has been beat enough. I’ll just say that there are maybe 20 mins worth of music out of 2+ hours that I enjoy. And even those songs I wouldn’t consider essential DT tracks. A lot of great moments and ideas sprinkled throughout but it’s too much work to get to them.

[NoFred]

My rating

1. A View From The Top Of The World 
    Best sounding album of this era, great songs
2. A Dramatic Turn Of Events               
    It has "Breaking All Illusions", need i say more?
3. Distance Over Time                         
    Pretty solid overall, i love "Barstool Warrior" and "At Wit's End"
4. The Astonishing
    I like it for what it is, though it doesn't have the same replay value as the songs work better in the entire album flow
5. Dream Theater
    A decent album ruined by bad production decisions. Second worst sounding DT album after WDADU in my opinion, the fart-like snare ruins it even though there are also some great songs included in this album.

This is mine with 1-2-3 interchangeable. Fully agree on #5 an album ruined by production.

[svisser]

The Vancouver show really supported what I thought about the album regarding Jame's choice of vocal lines. They were the easiest for him to sing. Other than The Alien, those rhythms in the verse would mess anyone up.

[jammindude]

I’m usually a bit of a production nut, and the criticisms of the self-titled production has always shocked me. I absolutely love that album!  That was the album that gave me confidence in the Mangini-era.

1. A View From the Top of the World
2. Dream Theater
3. The Astonishing
4. A Dramatic Turn of Events
5. Distance Over Time

3 and 4 switch places depending on my mood. ADTOE is probably the easier listen, but it’s not very adventurous. Whereas TA has some flaws but earns points for being something very different and not being as bad as some people say.

D/T is their most uneven work of the new era. Some good spots, some not so good.

[NoFred]

^Every year or so I give DT12 another earnest try. It’s like my favorite band has an album I’ve never heard before lol. It’s killing me. Hope it breaks through one day.

IT is a good epic though, stands on its own and definitely in the rotation.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

^Every year or so I give DT12 another earnest try. It’s like my favorite band has an album I’ve never heard before lol. It’s killing me. Hope it breaks through one day.

IT is a good epic though, stands on its own and definitely in the rotation.

What about the Breaking the Fourth Wall DVD? It's a new way to hear the material and that show was fire.

[crystalstars17]

^Every year or so I give DT12 another earnest try. It’s like my favorite band has an album I’ve never heard before lol. It’s killing me. Hope it breaks through one day.

IT is a good epic though, stands on its own and definitely in the rotation.

What about the Breaking the Fourth Wall DVD? It's a new way to hear the material and that show was fire.

💯🔥🔥🔥

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

^Every year or so I give DT12 another earnest try. It’s like my favorite band has an album I’ve never heard before lol. It’s killing me. Hope it breaks through one day.

IT is a good epic though, stands on its own and definitely in the rotation.

What about the Breaking the Fourth Wall DVD? It's a new way to hear the material and that show was fire.

💯🔥🔥🔥

Shattered Fortress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq8KRHpjeMA

I know it's not a DT12 song (and it's not a personal favorite of mine) but holy shit. They just crushed it that night.

[Dream Team]

In competition as my favorite DT DVD.

[Wim Kruithof]

To each there own, I'm well aware of that. But a common dislike here on DTF is the album lacking diversaty. And that I can't understand... There is so much in this album to enjoy and it covers the wide spectrum of Dream Theater definitely, I would say. There is heavy metal with Awaken the Master, there's that positive-vibe Transcending Time... The Alien and Invisible Monster are more easy to the ears, more mainstream-oriented and there is that absolute epic. Within this epic the ballad is hidden (cello-part) and Sleeping Giant is as complex as Dream Theater can be, due to it's build-up. There is that familiar Awake-sound, but stylistically total different.

The only two albums which could be point out as lack of diversaty are Train of Thought (heavy metal) and The Astonishing, which completely covers the other side of their spectrum. But A View is totally a classic in their discography, for me.

I stopped ranking albums in any particular order, because it's almost constant interchangeable. I'm pretty sure Distance Over Time is my least favorite Mangini-era album and A Dramatic Turn is one of their best, to me. But all the rest evolves with each new vinyl-spin.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

To each there own, I'm well aware of that. But a common dislike here on DTF is the album lacking diversaty. And that I can't understand... There is so much in this album to enjoy and it covers the wide spectrum of Dream Theater definitely, I would say. There is heavy metal with Awaken the Master, there's that positive-vibe Transcending Time... The Alien and Invisible Monster are more easy to the ears, more mainstream-oriented and there is that absolute epic. Within this epic the ballad is hidden (cello-part) and Sleeping Giant is as complex as Dream Theater can be, due to it's build-up. There is that familiar Awake-sound, but stylistically total different.

The only two albums which could be point out as lack of diversaty are Train of Thought (heavy metal) and The Astonishing, which completely covers the other side of their spectrum. But A View is totally a classic in their discography, for me.

I stopped ranking albums in any particular order, because it's almost constant interchangeable. I'm pretty sure Distance Over Time is my least favorite Mangini-era album and A Dramatic Turn is one of their best, to me. But all the rest evolves with each new vinyl-spin.

I agree with your analysis of View, Train of Thought and the Astonishing and I share your enthusiasm for View. I think it's going to be a classic of the Mangini-era when we look back on it in 25 years, though it sounds like a lot of people weren't thrilled by the subsequent tour. Anyway, I think any dissatisfaction from the View tour or DreamSonic says less to do about the quality of the album and more about other issues.

May there be many more DT albums for us to rank!

[Wim Kruithof]

Thanks Barstool Warrior... I've seen them twice the past tour and it was stunning and breath-taking. If I would make the call, I rather had this tour live on vinyl, than Distant Memories. That was awesome too and I do spin it on a regular base, but this setlist was so freakin' good. And Scenes had a live version which could never be topped.

The Ministry of Lost Souls was one of the very very best performances of Dream Theater, on a tour I've seen. I think it's a shame they won't do a live.

In a few days Dream Sonic ends... let us hope, wish and pray there will be a teaser of DTHQ for #16 in september.

[Lonk]

So I listened to Transcending Time yesterday for the first time in over a year. When the album came out, it was my least favorite from the album, and it still is, but the song itself is not as bad as I remember. It was slightly more enjoyable.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

So I listened to Transcending Time yesterday for the first time in over a year. When the album came out, it was my least favorite from the album, and it still is, but the song itself is not as bad as I remember. It was slightly more enjoyable.

Keep at it! A few more spins and it'll be a DT classic