2021 NFL Thread v. Super Bowl 56: Rams vs Bengals

[El Barto]

This is why I love Bill Belichick. They had the entire playbook at their disposal. Remember that they didn't realize it would be a run only affair until yesterday, or perhaps Sunday night. In the fourth quarter they could have thrown the ball, and it was an option with the favorable winds, but Bill had complete faith in his D. From his point of view 14 points was plenty enough to win the game, and he was right. He read the game perfectly. At the same time, in three weeks they'll play Buffalo again, and the Bills will have zero experience with NE's balanced offense. They've seen all of three passing plays this year. The Buffalo team they play will be familiar to them, yet the Bills will be seeing Mac Jones for the first time.

And yeah, I love oddball games. I like seeing emergency quarterbacks, or punters forced to kick field goals. I like games with severe weather. I love the abnormal, and NE is always going to come out ahead when things turn strange simply because they tend to be better trained for all eventualities. Good game last night.

[Skeever]

I agree with that. Only BB could pull something like last night off.
And it almost didn't work - when the opposing team drop two balls in the endzone, that's on the player, not the coach.

But to some extent you can chalk it up to the entire New England program. The Bills choked. They don't choke in NE. The expect to compete in big games at the highest levels as part of the routine and they expect the success. The Bills are clearly not there, as has become more and more clear while the season progresses.

[Stadler]

This is why I love Bill Belichick. They had the entire playbook at their disposal. Remember that they didn't realize it would be a run only affair until yesterday, or perhaps Sunday night. In the fourth quarter they could have thrown the ball, and it was an option with the favorable winds, but Bill had complete faith in his D. From his point of view 14 points was plenty enough to win the game, and he was right. He read the game perfectly. At the same time, in three weeks they'll play Buffalo again, and the Bills will have zero experience with NE's balanced offense. They've seen all of three passing plays this year. The Buffalo team they play will be familiar to them, yet the Bills will be seeing Mac Jones for the first time.

I already thought Belichick a genius; I didn't even THINK of that angle.   But you're 100% right. 

And yeah, I love oddball games. I like seeing emergency quarterbacks, or punters forced to kick field goals. I like games with severe weather. I love the abnormal, and NE is always going to come out ahead when things turn strange simply because they tend to be better trained for all eventualities. Good game last night.

Agreed.

[Dublagent66]

I can't give all the credit to BB when the Bills just didn't play situational football when they needed to inside the 10 YL twice.  Do it once and win the game.  It's that simple.

[King Postwhore]

I can't give all the credit to BB when the Bills just didn't play situational football when they needed to inside the 10 YL twice.  Do it once and win the game.  It's that simple.

I would disagree.  The Bills are #2 on scoring.  Bill's gameplan with the weather had a big affect on the game.

[El Barto]

I can't give all the credit to BB when the Bills just didn't play situational football when they needed to inside the 10 YL twice.  Do it once and win the game.  It's that simple.

If the Bills fail to play situational football (and I would suggest that they did alright in that regard), and NE plays absolutely perfect situational football, who else could you give the credit to? Seems to me the textbook definition of good coaching.

Something else to consider is that Buff didn't just fall apart in the redzone. They were outplayed, plain and simple. A critical sack put them in a third and long. An excellent defense of a very well thrown ball put them in a 4th and long. The biggest all out blitz NE has run all season¹ ended the drive (and therefore the game). Under the circumstances Buff didn't play a terrible game. They just weren't good enough.

¹That blitz was something NE just never does. If you've gameplanned for the way NE plays D, that must have been shocking.

[El Barto]

Something else to consider is how demoralizing that game must have been to Buffalo. I have to imagine that the worst thing you can have happen is to know precisely what the other team is going to do on every play and not be able to prevent it. Buffalo had a top level run D going into that game (now 12th), and if you'd told them that NE would never do anything but run the ball they'd have probably been pretty happy to hear it. That has to be absolutely soul crushing. It's like Larry Bird drawing out the play for you on the palm of his hand, executing that play exactly as he described, and then shaking his head at you for not being good enough to stop it. 

[hefdaddy42]

It's like Larry Bird drawing out the play for you on the palm of his hand, executing that play exactly as he described, and then shaking his head at you for not being good enough to stop it. 

He used to do things like that all the time.  Yeah, pretty demoralizing, from the stories I've heard from players to which he did that 

[Stadler]

Something else to consider is how demoralizing that game must have been to Buffalo. I have to imagine that the worst thing you can have happen is to know precisely what the other team is going to do on every play and not be able to prevent it. Buffalo had a top level run D going into that game (now 12th), and if you'd told them that NE would never do anything but run the ball they'd have probably been pretty happy to hear it. That has to be absolutely soul crushing. It's like Larry Bird drawing out the play for you on the palm of his hand, executing that play exactly as he described, and then shaking his head at you for not being good enough to stop it. 

Did you see the press conferences after the game?  Two of their DBs (Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde) looked absolutely destroyed and left in a huff based on one of the questions (something about not stopping the run even though they knew it was coming, I think.  I didn't hear it). 

[King Postwhore]

Something else to consider is how demoralizing that game must have been to Buffalo. I have to imagine that the worst thing you can have happen is to know precisely what the other team is going to do on every play and not be able to prevent it. Buffalo had a top level run D going into that game (now 12th), and if you'd told them that NE would never do anything but run the ball they'd have probably been pretty happy to hear it. That has to be absolutely soul crushing. It's like Larry Bird drawing out the play for you on the palm of his hand, executing that play exactly as he described, and then shaking his head at you for not being good enough to stop it. 

Did you see the press conferences after the game?  Two of their DBs (Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde) looked absolutely destroyed and left in a huff based on one of the questions (something about not stopping the run even though they knew it was coming, I think.  I didn't hear it).

The reporter asked if they were embarrassed that they couldn't stop the run.   

[TAC]

Lots of Patriots chest beating when they were a play away from losing. They won, so there's that, but would this have been a moral victory of Allen converted on the third down scramble, or if there was a PI called on that play?

[King Postwhore]

I think it laughing at how the Bills reacted after the game than pumping our chest. Still got some big games coming up.

[TAC]

That wasn't directed at you. Just the media blowing up how great of a win it was.
It was a literal coin flip.

[Dublagent66]

I can't give all the credit to BB when the Bills just didn't play situational football when they needed to inside the 10 YL twice.  Do it once and win the game.  It's that simple.

I would disagree.  The Bills are #2 on scoring.  Bill's gameplan with the weather had a big affect on the game.

Opinions vary.  The result could've gone either way with the low scores.  So yeah, it was a good gameplan but they dodged a bullet when the Bills shot themselves in the foot more than once deep in the redzone.

I can't give all the credit to BB when the Bills just didn't play situational football when they needed to inside the 10 YL twice.  Do it once and win the game.  It's that simple.

If the Bills fail to play situational football (and I would suggest that they did alright in that regard), and NE plays absolutely perfect situational football, who else could you give the credit to? Seems to me the textbook definition of good coaching.

Something else to consider is that Buff didn't just fall apart in the redzone. They were outplayed, plain and simple. A critical sack put them in a third and long. An excellent defense of a very well thrown ball put them in a 4th and long. The biggest all out blitz NE has run all season¹ ended the drive (and therefore the game). Under the circumstances Buff didn't play a terrible game. They just weren't good enough.

¹That blitz was something NE just never does. If you've gameplanned for the way NE plays D, that must have been shocking.

I'm not arguing BB's game plan.  Everybody knows by now that he always has a good one for the situation, but let's not forget that Buffalo had 2 opportunities to put the game away and they backed themselves up with penalties both times.  I wouldn't credit that to BB's gameplan.  That's just lack of concentration and execution by Buffalo.  Had NE lost, it was still a hell of a gameplan though.

Lots of Patriots chest beating when they were a play away from losing. They won, so there's that, but would this have been a moral victory of Allen converted on the third down scramble, or if there was a PI called on that play?

Yeah, that's a good point.  NE got a few no calls in that game that probably should've been called.

[El Barto]

That wasn't directed at you. Just the media blowing up how great of a win it was.
It was a literal coin flip.

Not even close. A coin flip is determined by random chance. Any of the plays you're describing are determined, for the most part, by the relative skill of the players involved. The alternative scenarios you're describing didn't occur because one team executed and the other team did not. While it's a matter of scale, the truth is that every game is determined by that metric. You don't get to win every game by 20 points, and sometimes the nail-biters are still good games won by the better team. And in the end, that's what this came down to. Regardless of how close you think it was, did you come away from it thinking the Bills were the better team?

And speaking of coin tosses, that's still unresolved. As I understand it, Buffalo won the coin toss and deferred. Didn't NE get both the ball and the wind for both halves, though? I could have sworn that they started each half with the ball, and I know that they had the wind to end each half. How do you win the coin toss and get screwed at every level?

[El Barto]

I can't give all the credit to BB when the Bills just didn't play situational football when they needed to inside the 10 YL twice.  Do it once and win the game.  It's that simple.

If the Bills fail to play situational football (and I would suggest that they did alright in that regard), and NE plays absolutely perfect situational football, who else could you give the credit to? Seems to me the textbook definition of good coaching.

Something else to consider is that Buff didn't just fall apart in the redzone. They were outplayed, plain and simple. A critical sack put them in a third and long. An excellent defense of a very well thrown ball put them in a 4th and long. The biggest all out blitz NE has run all season¹ ended the drive (and therefore the game). Under the circumstances Buff didn't play a terrible game. They just weren't good enough.

¹That blitz was something NE just never does. If you've gameplanned for the way NE plays D, that must have been shocking.

I'm not arguing BB's game plan.  Everybody knows by now that he always has a good one for the situation, but let's not forget that Buffalo had 2 opportunities to put the game away and they backed themselves up with penalties both times.  I wouldn't credit that to BB's gameplan.  That's just lack of concentration and execution by Buffalo.  Had NE lost, it was still a hell of a gameplan though.

And I'd argue that the penalties weren't the end of it for Buffalo. They had every opportunity to win that game on the final drive, and NE simply beat them. Beat them soundly.

Lots of Patriots chest beating when they were a play away from losing. They won, so there's that, but would this have been a moral victory of Allen converted on the third down scramble, or if there was a PI called on that play?

Yeah, that's a good point.  NE got a few no calls in that game that probably should've been called.

Like that phantom roughness call for pushing Josh Allen out of bounds while he was still in the air? Those kind of calls?

[TAC]

That wasn't directed at you. Just the media blowing up how great of a win it was.
It was a literal coin flip.

Not even close. A coin flip is determined by random chance. Any of the plays you're describing are determined, for the most part, by the relative skill of the players involved. The alternative scenarios you're describing didn't occur because one team executed and the other team did not. While it's a matter of scale, the truth is that every game is determined by that metric. You don't get to win every game by 20 points, and sometimes the nail-biters are still good games won by the better team. And in the end, that's what this came down to. Regardless of how close you think it was, did you come away from it thinking the Bills were the better team?

Did I think the Bills were better? No, but I think that game was way too close for some of today's rhetoric.

And speaking of coin tosses, that's still unresolved. As I understand it, Buffalo won the coin toss and deferred. Didn't NE get both the ball and the wind for both halves, though? I could have sworn that they started each half with the ball, and I know that they had the wind to end each half. How do you win the coin toss and get screwed at every level?

Buff won the toss (and deferred). The Pats, by losing the toss, get to pick direction.  The Bills got the ball to start the 2nd half.

[KevShmev]

I think it's more like Belichick made the Bills shoot themselves in the foot in the red zone.  Those were not unforced errors. Playing great situational football has been a Belichick staple for as long as I can remember, and it happened again last night.

I could argue that the Bills were lucky to lose by only 4 considering their only TD came off a ST blunder and their other 3 came after the awful roughing call when the guy gave Allen a love tap.

[TAC]

Like that phantom roughness call for pushing Josh Allen out of bounds while he was still in the air? Those kind of calls?

That was a bullshit call for sure.

[El Barto]

That wasn't directed at you. Just the media blowing up how great of a win it was.
It was a literal coin flip.

Not even close. A coin flip is determined by random chance. Any of the plays you're describing are determined, for the most part, by the relative skill of the players involved. The alternative scenarios you're describing didn't occur because one team executed and the other team did not. While it's a matter of scale, the truth is that every game is determined by that metric. You don't get to win every game by 20 points, and sometimes the nail-biters are still good games won by the better team. And in the end, that's what this came down to. Regardless of how close you think it was, did you come away from it thinking the Bills were the better team?

Did I think the Bills were better? No, but I think that game was way too close for some of today's rhetoric.

Twice, NE's D stepped up and shut a very talented offense down in the redzone to maintain the lead. I consider that worthy of a bit of chest pounding. Like I said, Buffalo didn't just collapse. They were out played. Would a 42-3 blowout have been better? Hell yeah. Doesn't change the fact that NE dominated that game, though, on both sides of the ball.

[TAC]

So I guess you can dominate a game and still be one play away from losing. I think the Patriots are better.
But dominate is not a word that I would use as a viewer of that game. But that's me, I guess.

[King Postwhore]

On the Manning brothers commentary, Joe Buck was hilarious. I kinda wished the network would allow that chill Joe Buck to commentate during games.

He really was good.  I especially liked when Peyton asked him if he ever wishes he could have a guest to talk to during games that get out of hand, and he responded that yes, and the last time he can remember thinking about that was during Peyton's SB loss to the Seahawks.

lol

 

https://youtu.be/U5R1udK-tsk

[El Barto]

So I guess you can dominate a game and still be one play away from losing. I think the Patriots are better.
But dominate is not a word that I would use as a viewer of that game. But that's me, I guess.

Dominate literally means to overpower, and I think we saw that time and time again. When you're putting 9 men in the box and they're still ripping off 10 yard runs, you're being dominated. When you're unable to run the ball effectively, and your QB is getting hurried when he tries to pass, you're being dominated at the line of scrimmage.

[Dublagent66]

Call it what you want.  I don't consider 4 points a dominating win.

[Stadler]

So I guess you can dominate a game and still be one play away from losing. I think the Patriots are better.
But dominate is not a word that I would use as a viewer of that game. But that's me, I guess.

Dominate literally means to overpower, and I think we saw that time and time again. When you're putting 9 men in the box and they're still ripping off 10 yard runs, you're being dominated. When you're unable to run the ball effectively, and your QB is getting hurried when he tries to pass, you're being dominated at the line of scrimmage.

I agree with this.  It might not have translated to "points", but New England did what they wanted to do with the ball, and Buffalo could not do what they wanted to do on either side of the ball.  I think this qualifies as "dominate", at least on the field.

[King Postwhore]

Going away, tying one hand behind your back and still the other team can't stop you know this takes some guts.

[Stadler]

Going away, tying one hand behind your back and still the other team can't stop you know this takes some guts.

That's a side bar to this, but it's one of the things I love love love about Belichick.  He seemingly has no fear.  He trusts his instincts and - and I try to use this in my real life - when he figures out a plan, by God, he sticks to it.  There's no halfway with Belichick.  If he lost that game, there's not a reporter worth his salt, nor a commentator worth hers, that would fail to point out he lost because he tied one arm behind his team's back proactively and was too stubborn to realize it. 

[KevShmev]

So I guess you can dominate a game and still be one play away from losing. I think the Patriots are better.
But dominate is not a word that I would use as a viewer of that game. But that's me, I guess.

Dominate literally means to overpower, and I think we saw that time and time again. When you're putting 9 men in the box and they're still ripping off 10 yard runs, you're being dominated. When you're unable to run the ball effectively, and your QB is getting hurried when he tries to pass, you're being dominated at the line of scrimmage.

I agree with this.  It might not have translated to "points", but New England did what they wanted to do with the ball, and Buffalo could not do what they wanted to do on either side of the ball.  I think this qualifies as "dominate", at least on the field.

Agreed.  Buffalo looked like they were trying to fight their way uphill most of the game.  And Belichick is smart enough to know that you can dominate that game and it won't necessarily be reflected with a dominant final score.  The fact that the Bills whined and moped after the game was showed me that they know they got dominated both physically and mentally.

[KevShmev]

Demaryius Thomas dead at 33. Damn. His OT catch against the Steelers after the 2011 season in Round 1 of the playoffs resulted in one of the most energetic reactions I have ever had to a sports play. R.I.P.

[Stadler]

I'm glad I'm not a Vikings fan.  They look great at moments, but letting that flat Steelers team get back into it (and they WOULD have won that, they simply ran out of time) is the mark of a not-good team.

[TAC]

Demaryius Thomas dead at 33. Damn. His OT catch against the Steelers after the 2011 season in Round 1 of the playoffs resulted in one of the most energetic reactions I have ever had to a sports play. R.I.P.

Wow, that's shocking.

[Dublagent66]

Yeah, what a tragedy.  I guess he suffered from seizures.  How lonely and humiliating to be found dead in the shower.  He deserved to go out better than that. RIP 

[King Postwhore]

Going away, tying one hand behind your back and still the other team can't stop you know this takes some guts.

That's a side bar to this, but it's one of the things I love love love about Belichick.  He seemingly has no fear.  He trusts his instincts and - and I try to use this in my real life - when he figures out a plan, by God, he sticks to it.  There's no halfway with Belichick.  If he lost that game, there's not a reporter worth his salt, nor a commentator worth hers, that would fail to point out he lost because he tied one arm behind his team's back proactively and was too stubborn to realize it. 

They were all talking what if's on sport talk radio about that scenario for the last few days.

[pg1067]

Demaryius Thomas dead at 33. Damn. His OT catch against the Steelers after the 2011 season in Round 1 of the playoffs resulted in one of the most energetic reactions I have ever had to a sports play. R.I.P.

Thirty-frickin'-three!  Damn...

I had lost track of him after he left the Broncos.  My kid told me about this yesterday, and I was like, "What?!  How old is he?"  By all accounts, he was a good dude, which is impressive since both his mother and grandmother were sentenced to heft prison terms for crack distribution (both commuted toward the end of Barry O's administration).  It said the death was a result of "medical complications related to injuries" sustained in a 2019 vehicle crash.

Right there with you as to that catch against the Steelers.  That was right up there with the Malcolm Butler interception.

[Dream Team]

I'm glad I'm not a Vikings fan.  They look great at moments, but letting that flat Steelers team get back into it (and they WOULD have won that, they simply ran out of time) is the mark of a not-good team.

Even Cowherd today was expressing how impressed he was by Ben last night. Down 29-0, getting in people’s faces, rallying the troops, taking brutal hits, and making one great throw after another. Would have been a record comeback, 28 points is the record. Of course Claypool doing his best AB impression to undermine the whole effort with his look-at-me clueless antics is vintage Tomlin and his permissive approach.