Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music

[TAC]

There seems to have been a movement over the last couple of years where albums seem to be in the 37-45 min range. It is kind of refreshing, actually.

[Setlist Scotty]

I'm really, REALLY fucking bored of the following:

Long albums. Be self-aware. Seriously.

Yeah this is DEFINITELY where I'm at these days. If your album is over an hour you better be justifying that length. Every year I seem to enjoy shorter records, and at a glance most of my favorite records just happen to be under 50 minutes or just over 50 minutes. I'm starting to think 45-50 is the sweet spot for me. Some bands could reeeeally learn how to trim the fat, especially metal bands.

I agree with this perfectly.

The only problem with this is the fact that there might be something they're trimming that you would like. That's the beauty of longer albums - there's more to like. And if you don't like something, trim it yourself.

Look at the threads and polls that talk about favorite songs off of this album or that - usually, there are fans of every single song. Songs that other fans hate. And vice versa. So I'd rather have a longer album with more options than less.

[KevShmev]

I am fine with it either way.  There are some great long albums and some long albums that could have been better overall had there been a little trimming, and there are some great short albums and some short albums that could have been better with more songs.

If it's a band that does longer songs on a regular basis, a short album can be dicey since all it takes is not liking one or two songs and you end up with not a lot of music to latch on to from that album.  Take the last Haken album, which had two songs I can do without.  Thankfully, they were the two shortest songs (not counting the 2-minute into track), but it still left me with a little less than 35 minutes of new music by them that I liked. 

[Cool Chris]

And if you don't like something, trim it yourself.

This whole self-editing idea is so odd to me. And to make myself clear, it is a 'me' issue, not that other people do it. It would never occur to me to edit/trim a song or an album any more than it would to FF through part of a movie or skip over a chapter in a book.

[Setlist Scotty]

Well, when I speak of trimming, I mostly mean making your own playlists so that you can remove the songs you don't like, which is not any different from skipping a song on a CD, which I'm sure you've done at some point in your life, as all of us have when listening to an album that we've heard numerous times already. Of course, with sound editing software that is available for everyone these days, it could be argued that you could even trim the sections of songs that you don't like, although that's not what I really meant by my post.

[Cool Chris]

Well, when I speak of trimming, I mostly mean making your own playlists so that you can remove the songs you don't like, which is not any different from skipping a song on a CD, which I'm sure you've done at some point in your life

Of course, I just find it so much easier to skip the song than create a playlist.

it could be argued that you could even trim the sections of songs that you don't like, although that's not what I really meant by my post.

That was where my mind went, I read your post too quickly.

[425]

I basically agree with Kev on this. I do agree with the sentiment that a long album (like, over 70 minutes) needs to justify its length... but with the trend toward shorter albums, there are definitely some that I listen to and think "that was it?" I think an album that's under 40 minutes needs to justify its brevity just as much as one that's over 70 needs to justify its length.

For me, the sweet spot is probably 55-65. Right off the top of my head, Images and Words, Century Child and The Mountain are three of my top favorite albums, all albums where I feel that the perfect pacing is part of what makes them so enjoyable, all fall neatly into that range.

I think that the number of songs can also be a factor in ideal length. I think there can be an overload with too many songs just as much as there can be with too long an overall runtime. I'd say the optimal length for a typical pop album is probably shorter, on average, than a typical prog album. If the average song length is, say, 3:30, then an hour-long album is 17 songs. Whereas if the average length is 6:00, an hour-long album is 10 songs. Personally, I would find that 17-song album more tiring than the 10-song album, other things being equal. 17 is just a lot of little pieces to try to focus on.

[Zook]

Well, when I speak of trimming, I mostly mean making your own playlists so that you can remove the songs you don't like, which is not any different from skipping a song on a CD, which I'm sure you've done at some point in your life

Of course, I just find it so much easier to skip the song than create a playlist.

it could be argued that you could even trim the sections of songs that you don't like, although that's not what I really meant by my post.

That was where my mind went, I read your post too quickly.

I edit songs for fun, and for better enjoyment. Sometimes it's a real challenge. I'll increase the tempo, or cut out a section I don't think sounds very good, like the bridge to Nemesea's Caught in the Middle, which I don't think has a very good vocal performance. The Days of Purgatory version of Iced Earth is too slow so I sped it up. I sped up Disturbed's Serpentine as well because it sounds much better that way. I got that idea from a youtube comment. Not sure why they recorded it so slow. I've tried many times to improve A Nightmare to Remember with no luck. There's always something that sounds off. I came close though. I also did a edit of The Great Debate, removing the soundbites. It almost works. Some people think editing songs is some horrible atrocity, but I'm not erasing the original from existence.

I think editing movies is just fine too.

[MirrorMask]

I don't think there can be a golden rule for what an album's length should be, it also depends for the genre - 45 minutes for punk is probably long, 45 minutes for prog or doom is short. The only rule should be quality over quantity, I guess.

And I endorse the "trim it yourself" approach, wether it's a different tracklist order or some actual audio editing. Zook made the example of editing DT songs, I did my fair share of fat trimming back in the days, to make an example I have an 8-9 minutes edit of The Ministry of the Lost Souls that completely removes the entire solo section making it a power ballad from beginning to end, and more generally I do a lot of strategic edits for my compilations, maybe to help better the transition from a song to the other or give it a "live setlist" feel, therefore having two songs connected or whatever.

It's all good fun, the tools are there, why not using them?

[Zantera]

Long albums is definitely a high risk/high reward type of thing for me. There are a few albums in the 2-3 hour region that I absolutely love and would rate 5/5 but then there's 70 minute albums that feel about 20 minutes too long, it definitely depends on the material. But I feel like if you aim high and you pull it off, the result is really satisfying. Then again I also appreciate a fantastic 45 minute album that keeps it simple as well.

[Stadler]

The only problem with this is the fact that there might be something they're trimming that you would like. That's the beauty of longer albums - there's more to like. And if you don't like something, trim it yourself.

Look at the threads and polls that talk about favorite songs off of this album or that - usually, there are fans of every single song. Songs that other fans hate. And vice versa. So I'd rather have a longer album with more options than less.

No doubt; I'm usually that guy in those threads!   But I kind of like the approach that Jerry Cantrell took with Degradation Trip. Or AVA took with Love; put out two CDs of moderate length.   I get it, I can do that, and I sometimes do (and I sometimes make edits of the songs themselves, though rarely.  I made an instrumental version of Tonight by Ozzy and War Pigs by Sabbath, which sounds like I hate Ozzy but that's not really why I did it.  I was trying to learn parts on the guitar and it just ended up sounding really cool.)

I get that I'm not really making sense here, because I know I'm not.  I'm a completist, and I want all the songs they have.  But sometimes 78 minutes is a long stretch to swim.  I remember back to when I got Toys In The Attic - 37:08 - or Number Of The Beast - 39:11 - and they just seemed PERFECT.

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't trim, I add stuff to songs.  Sometimes I'll hear songs that are eerily similar (same key, same chord progession). I did it with The Count of Tuscany and an OC Remix of a Doom Song, which oddly the OC remix fits in perfectly within the ambient section of TCOT (I made a thread about it in the DT side). I also, combined both the Gentle and Storm versions of The Storm. I like the Piano in the Gentle version and it adds a lot to the Storm version, which I listen to more.

[MirrorMask]

I also, combined both the Gentle and Storm versions of The Storm. I like the Piano in the Gentle version and it adds a lot to the Storm version, which I listen to more.

I made a one album compilation of that, picking either version (Gentle or Storm) that I liked the most, and I merged Cape of Storms - starting Gentle, then from the second chorus kicking in the Storm version.

[Stadler]

I also, combined both the Gentle and Storm versions of The Storm. I like the Piano in the Gentle version and it adds a lot to the Storm version, which I listen to more.

I made a one album compilation of that, picking either version (Gentle or Storm) that I liked the most, and I merged Cape of Storms - starting Gentle, then from the second chorus kicking in the Storm version.

What song(s) are you guys talking about?

[MirrorMask]

This one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_(The_Gentle_Storm_album)

[romdrums]

After listening to an album from the band Unprocessed, called Artificial Void, I realized that the djent sub-genre is more about unlocking achievements and leveling up than it is about creating authentic music.  I don't see anyone, outside of Meshuggah, making that music because they are compelled to.  Rather, it seems like many of these bands do it because they can. 

[Stadler]

This one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_(The_Gentle_Storm_album)

Huh; that sounds interesting.  Is it as good as it sounds like it might be? 

[MirrorMask]

This one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_(The_Gentle_Storm_album)

Huh; that sounds interesting.  Is it as good as it sounds like it might be?

Not only, it's even better! If you like Ayreon you'll love this. Or maybe even without loving Ayreon.

Suggestion: if you dive into it, check the "Gentle" album first. It's more original and intimate, and the music stands out more. Listening first to the "Storm" album might give the idea of just another prog metal album, while the subtleties stand out more if you listen first to the more intimate version.

[Sacul]

After listening to an album from the band Unprocessed, called Artificial Void, I realized that the djent sub-genre is more about unlocking achievements and leveling up than it is about creating authentic music.  I don't see anyone, outside of Meshuggah, making that music because they are compelled to.  Rather, it seems like many of these bands do it because they can.

David Maxim Micic has done some wonderfully creative records that blend djent with plenty of other genres, even pop music and ambient.

[hefdaddy42]

This one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_(The_Gentle_Storm_album)

Huh; that sounds interesting.  Is it as good as it sounds like it might be?

It's pretty damn good.

[Stadler]

I have one Ayreon album and love it, and I got a couple Star One songs in a roulette and loved those too.  Anneke is also in part  how I broke into Devin after thinking I didn't like him for years.

I know it sounds like this would be a no-brainer, but there seems to be a fine line; I've been told "if you'll like this, you'll like that!" before and not so much.  But I think I might give this a whack.   

[DoctorAction]

Obviously my points were all totally subjective. There's no wrong or right length for an album. Whatever works for the individual.

If you're editing your own version of the song then the artist has clearly made a song-writing call you fundamentally disagree with.

6DOIT is probably my favourite double album. No wastage there. Can't think of another i think is worth the time. I like Snow by SB a lot but it's about a third too long.

I feel the same about movies too. 3 hours is the limit really, and most of the time about 2 is enough. And don't get me started on books. Hear of an editor?

Hmm. I'm seeing a pattern...

[WildRanger]

The Great Gig in the Sky has some amazing music that is ruined by the sound of a chick's annoying wailing.

I agree.

[Cool Chris]

I should like The Gentle Storm more than I do. I owe myself another listen. Will try and get to this week.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Lulu is not as bad as everyone says.

inb4 "It's not--It's worse."

[Cool Chris]

Baby Got Back is the dumbest song ever.

[Ben_Jamin]

Baby Got Back is the dumbest song ever.

Oh My God, Becky...

[romdrums]

Baby Got Back is the dumbest song ever.

Somebody once told me...

[King Postwhore]

Baby Got Back is the dumbest song ever.

You mean Barbie Girl.

[Ben_Jamin]

Baby Got Back is the dumbest song ever.

You mean Barbie Girl.

You and me baby ain't nothing but mammals.

[Stadler]

At least it's funny.  There are worse songs (for me, "The Pina Colada Song".  WTF.  How 70's can you get?)

[The Walrus]

Baby Got Back is the dumbest song ever.

You mean Barbie Girl.

Shutcho mouf. I like that song 

[Max Kuehnau]

I'm really, REALLY fucking bored of the following:

Metal bands with no sense of humour OR artistic competence. It's been 40 years - you need to have one or the other.

Crap songwriting.  A riff is just a riff. You need a compelling lyric or a decent structure. Usually both.

Super clean production. Give me some life and feel, ferchrissake.

Long albums. Be self-aware. Seriously.

one man's poison is another man's (i.e. my) wine. I find cleanly produced albums easy to listen to, far easier than others. Most of my alltime favourites by bands I love are clean and sterile albums. And I do like long albums too (given that they're structured nicely. In the case of DT, I think long albums are nice, because they can take the time to play everything they want. ADTOE is nice in that regard IMHO, as an example.) 

[King Postwhore]

Baby Got Back is the dumbest song ever.

You mean Barbie Girl.

Shutcho mouf. I like that song 

How dare you!

[jingle.boy]

Baby Got Back is the dumbest song ever.

I don't understand how you autocorrected "Shark" into "Got Back"?