NFL thread 2014 v. Frankford Yellow Jackets Lay the Pipe on the Dayton Triangles

[El Barto]

LOL. Must be awful for Budweiser to suddenly become associated with wifebeaters.

[ReaPsTA]

LOL. Must be awful for Budweiser to suddenly become associated with wifebeaters.

[Dr. DTVT]

I'm going to quote EB again because it is worth repeating:

Add to that, it's very quick to overreact and very slow (as in incapable) of self-correcting.

Is the role of the authority to make only decisions that people agree with? Sometimes the right call is one that pisses everybody off.

I can't believe that after the Duke Lacrosse case people are still so quick to demand retribution.  Coaches were fired, students reputations were sullied, and a whole lot of innocent people were wrongly punished and put under a magnifying glass because the school capitulated to public outcry, and it turns out the woman made it up because she thought she could get a settlement out of it.  I'm not saying that is the case with AP, but dammit we have to get facts before we act - in all parts of life.  Acting on accusations is a damned slippery slope and we as a society need to stop doing it.  AP isn't going to bring a switch onto the football field and whoop his kid there.  While it is being investigated you keep him away from his kid and do the investigation.  Unless someone poses a danger to society in general (Aaron Hernandez, players with DUI's), just keep them away from the situation and let the prosecutors and the courts do their job.

[orcus116]

Well when you have rabble rousing cretins like Nancy Grace with TV shows it's hard to quell any kind of incidents like this that come up.

[ReaPsTA]

I can't believe that after the Duke Lacrosse case people are still so quick to demand retribution.

This is the part that worries me.  Greg Hardy should have already been suspended because the facts are out there.  I understand why people are upset about that.

I don't know what the league is supposed to do about AP and Ray McDonald though.  Maybe the NFL's messaging needs work.  When the NFL says "we're waiting for the legal process to play out," I think what people hear is "We're hoping that the legal system gives our player a break so we have an excuse not to give out any meaningful punishment."  Given that happened with Ray Rice, this is a justifiable fear.

This is why, really, the NFL needs to just fire Goodell.  Goodell could cure cancer, and people would blame him for not doing it sooner.  If Goodell talks about stuff like innocent until proven guilty, people will assume he's just trying to cover peoples' asses.  The NFL needs to start fresh with someone who can build peoples' trust.

[El Barto]

You might well be right about him needing to go, since he's pretty much lost the confidence of everybody. However, the behavior your saddling him with is exactly what he should be doing. Let the legal system play out and quit trying to be a shadow system. If it means you don't have to act, all the better.

[ReaPsTA]

You might well be right about him needing to go, since he's pretty much lost the confidence of everybody. However, the behavior your saddling him with is exactly what he should be doing. Let the legal system play out and quit trying to be a shadow system. If it means you don't have to act, all the better.

Here's the thing though.  Let's say it's LeSean McCoy being accused of this and not Adrian Peterson.  I don't want to see him on my fucking TV.  I don't want to see him score a touchdown and make me wonder if I should be happy that a child abuser did good things for my Football team.  What would even be the point of watching the game?  "The EAGLES take on the REDSKINS!!!! Will Kirk Cousins thrive in a starting role!?  Will LeSean McCoy (who by the way beat his children so hard that they get bruises all over their bodies, including their genitals, in a room specifically designed for doling out the abuse) have another spectacular game?  Find out on this edition of FOX NFL SUNDAY!!!!!!!!!"

No chance.  I'll see what's on CBS.

[jammindude]

If you judge before you know the facts...that's on you. 

[ReaPsTA]

If you judge before you know the facts...that's on you.

The pictures of Peterson's kid having been abused are on the Internet.  He was indicted by a grand jury.  He didn't deny it in his statement.  The specifics haven't been nailed down sufficiently to fairly give out a suspension, but it's unreasonable to believe this is all just made up.

[El Barto]

You might well be right about him needing to go, since he's pretty much lost the confidence of everybody. However, the behavior your saddling him with is exactly what he should be doing. Let the legal system play out and quit trying to be a shadow system. If it means you don't have to act, all the better.

Here's the thing though.  Let's say it's LeSean McCoy being accused of this and not Adrian Peterson.  I don't want to see him on my fucking TV.  I don't want to see him score a touchdown and make me wonder if I should be happy that a child abuser did good things for my Football team.  What would even be the point of watching the game?  "The EAGLES take on the REDSKINS!!!! Will Kirk Cousins thrive in a starting role!?  Will LeSean McCoy (who by the way beat his children so hard that they get bruises all over their bodies, including their genitals, in a room specifically designed for doling out the abuse) have another spectacular game?  Find out on this edition of FOX NFL SUNDAY!!!!!!!!!"

No chance.  I'll see what's on CBS.

Well first off, I'd be willing to bet that 1/3 of the NFL would easily fail to live up to common expectations if we actually knew what they were up to. Personally I'm under no illusions that these are necessarily good people or even people I'd want to associate with. I don't give a shit.  I enjoy football. I assume it's played by a whole lot of assholes. That's that.

Also, if we're allowing some to make the decision for all, then we're basing it on their standards, and more importantly what they think they know. While I'm not exactly keen on the whole concept of our legal system, I trust it a shit-ton more than I do the average twitter user and his associated angry millions. BTW, in this climate do you think Vick (who I'll refer to by name in this one instance) would be allowed to play? I hate the Eagles. Hell, I root every week for their charter jet to crash into the God damned Hudson, but damned if I didn't enjoy every minute of his play when he was kicking ass in that great (but naturally futile) season. Absolutely thrilling, and I find that far more important than maintaining an illusion that the league is made up of great people by a sham shadow justice system forced by angry mobs.

[ReaPsTA]

Well first off, I'd be willing to bet that 1/3 of the NFL would easily fail to live up to common expectations if we actually knew what they were up to.

I dunno.  I read the Incognito/Martin texts.  Their behavior was depraved, but it wasn't criminal.  I figure a lot of guys on the Eagles love strippers, drugs, and having sex with strippers while doing drugs.  That's their business.  The amount of NFL players involved with criminal activity is probably pretty low.

Personally I'm under no illusions that these are necessarily good people or even people I'd want to associate with. I don't give a shit.  I enjoy football. I assume it's played by a whole lot of assholes. That's that.

I'm also totally fine with that.

BTW, in this climate do you think Vick (who I'll refer to by name in this one instance) would be allowed to play?

I'd hope so.  He was caught, went to jail, and served his time.

Absolutely thrilling, and I find that far more important than maintaining an illusion that the league is made up of great people by a sham shadow justice system forced by angry mobs.

They can be bad people if they want to be even.  I don't care.  But isn't there a line?  And isn't domestic abuse crossing it?

[El Barto]

I suppose there is a line, but if you're going to leave it up to twitter to sort out when it's crossed for each and every incident then you might as well close up shop and go home.

As for Rice and domestic violence, I think what he did was pretty shitty, but then I'm not married to him, I won't be riding in any elevators with him, and I wasn't personally affected by his behavior.  His wife was all three, and she seems to have forgiven him and wants to move on. The Man is perfectly cool with that arrangement with a little counseling thrown in for good measure. My judgement of his actions means precisely jack shit, and frankly, nor should the self-righteous bleating of the mob, and the NFL shouldn't be bullied into caving to them.

[jammindude]

If you judge before you know the facts...that's on you.

The pictures of Peterson's kid having been abused are on the Internet.  He was indicted by a grand jury.  He didn't deny it in his statement.  The specifics haven't been nailed down sufficiently to fairly give out a suspension, but it's unreasonable to believe this is all just made up.

I'm not as in the loop as you are.  I watch the games and heard the allegations, and even heard there were pictures...but I was unaware of the degree, or of his admission. 

[hefdaddy42]

As for Rice and domestic violence, I think what he did was pretty shitty, but then I'm not married to him, I won't be riding in any elevators with him, and I wasn't personally affected by his behavior.  His wife was all three, and she seems to have forgiven him and wants to move on. The Man is perfectly cool with that arrangement with a little counseling thrown in for good measure. My judgement of his actions means precisely jack shit, and frankly, nor should the self-righteous bleating of the mob, and the NFL shouldn't be bullied into caving to them.

Hear!  Hear! 

[El Barto]

So now AP is back to being suspended because of the Raddison hotel withdrawal, and this whole thing is now officially fucking stupid. The league really needs to settle in on a policy where they concern themselves with football and let the courts handle criminals.

[Jaq]

So now AP is back to being suspended because of the Raddison hotel withdrawal, and this whole thing is now officially fucking stupid. The league really needs to settle in on a policy where they concern themselves with football and let the courts handle criminals.

And let millionaire child abusers and wife beaters keep playing because that has nothing to do with football?

Zero tolerance. You get accused of something that makes the league look bad, you're suspended until it's resolved. Only reason we have a problem now is because of the inconsistent punishment sent out by the league and the individual teams having to backtrack and panic because the public's just figured out that the NFL has a problem with serial physical abuse.

As for Rice and domestic violence, I think what he did was pretty shitty, but then I'm not married to him, I won't be riding in any elevators with him, and I wasn't personally affected by his behavior.  His wife was all three, and she seems to have forgiven him and wants to move on. The Man is perfectly cool with that arrangement with a little counseling thrown in for good measure. My judgement of his actions means precisely jack shit, and frankly, nor should the self-righteous bleating of the mob, and the NFL shouldn't be bullied into caving to them.

Hear!  Hear! 

That bolded out part proves you know exactly jack shit about how victims of domestic violence react to things. Speaking as someone who dated a lawyer who does a lot of work with battered women, I can say that with massive authority.

And speaking as a member of the massive bleating mob-HE KNOCKED OUT A WOMAN COLD. COULD HAVE KILLED HER. Who gives a fuck how many fantasy points he might have earned this year? You think he needs to be representing a national sporting league and making millions? I sure as shit don't.

I swear, you guys.

[Xanthul]

And let millionaire child abusers and wife beaters keep playing because that has nothing to do with football?

Zero tolerance. You get accused of something that makes the league look bad, you're suspended until it's resolved. Only reason we have a problem now is because of the inconsistent punishment sent out by the league and the individual teams having to backtrack and panic because the public's just figured out that the NFL has a problem with serial physical abuse.

I don't have a definite stance in this matter - on one hand I agree with you, but I also believe in "innocent until proven guilty". Furthermore, how long will it be until key players start being falsely accused to take them out of key games? Don't forget this is a billion dollar business, not a sport.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, I can't buy the "She forgave him and is giving him another chance, so we should, too" line of thinking either. 

As for the Vikings, it's not just the Raddison.  Nike pulled their AP stuff, the governor came out against them, etc.  When public sentiment is against you that much, combined with sponsors bailing on you, that kind of money loss AND public backlash is not something the NFL or an NFL franchise wants to happen, so while it is cowardly that it took that for them to do the right thing, barring Peterson until all is settled is the right thing to do. 

I still can't believe no one in Carolina is speaking out against Greg Hardy.  Is the league asleep at the wheel yet again or what?

[El Barto]

Dating a lawyer makes you a massive authority on domestic violence? Alright then. Does it give you any insight into logic? While it might well be the case that women who are beaten will do irrational shit, is it the case that they will always behave as such? Is it impossible that this was a one-off event and that she actually does want to move forward? If so, then why the fuck aren't we as a society dictating the terms for every single battered woman in the country? They're clearly incapable of thinking for themselves.

And yes, until the millionaire child abuser is convicted of being a child abuser, let him play football. As upsetting as this might be to some people, we don't ostracize people for being charged with a crime.

[El Barto]

As for the Vikings, it's not just the Raddison.  Nike pulled their AP stuff, the governor came out against them, etc.  When public sentiment is against you that much, combined with sponsors bailing on you, that kind of money loss AND public backlash is not something the NFL or an NFL franchise wants to happen, so while it is cowardly that it took that for them to do the right thing, barring Peterson until all is settled is the right thing to do. 

Nike I can understand, and I think that's actually a pretty reasonable control for such things. That hurts AP, and provides incentives for players to toe the line. Going after the league because some of their players are bad people is pointless and sets a bad precedent. And who the fuck cares what the governor of Minnesota thinks about a football player?

[cramx3]

I am up for the idea of suspension with pay for similar cases where there is enough evidence to support the suspension like in AP and RR's cases.  This way you cant just accuse people of things to get the off the team.  I do think the league needs to take a stance as well and not just sit back like they seem to be doing.

[hefdaddy42]

As for Rice and domestic violence, I think what he did was pretty shitty, but then I'm not married to him, I won't be riding in any elevators with him, and I wasn't personally affected by his behavior.  His wife was all three, and she seems to have forgiven him and wants to move on. The Man is perfectly cool with that arrangement with a little counseling thrown in for good measure. My judgement of his actions means precisely jack shit, and frankly, nor should the self-righteous bleating of the mob, and the NFL shouldn't be bullied into caving to them.

Hear!  Hear! 

That bolded out part proves you know exactly jack shit about how victims of domestic violence react to things. Speaking as someone who dated a lawyer who does a lot of work with battered women, I can say that with massive authority.

I know plenty about battered women, thanks for the condescension.  I also know about grace, compassion, and forgiveness, of which Rice's wife is the only one on earth displaying any.  It's also weird that the only person ACTUALLY AFFECTED BY THIS INCIDENT is the only one whose voice is being ignored.  It seems like everyone else is eager to jump to "battered wife syndrome" so they can put her in that box and chalk up another example and put another notch in the victory column, without ackowledging the fact that life isn't simple, it is very complex, and maybe, just maybe, this isn't a case of a guy repeatedly beating his wife, but both of them having a bad night, and having real reconciliation and forgiveness.  That is a matter between them as a couple, and I don't get a vote on that, and neither should anyone else. 

And speaking as a member of the massive bleating mob-HE KNOCKED OUT A WOMAN COLD. COULD HAVE KILLED HER. Who gives a fuck how many fantasy points he might have earned this year? You think he needs to be representing a national sporting league and making millions? I sure as shit don't.

I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about Fantasy Football, or about the Baltimore Ravens (no offense, DoC).  I think if a guy is accused of a crime, and charges aren't pressed and the matter is dropped (from a legal perspective), there is only so much that should be done by his workplace, virtually regardless of what that workplace is.  That's how every other citizen in America would be treated by their job.  I don't care that he makes millions, that is irrelevant.

[Tom Bombadil]

This whole thing is now officially fucking stupid.

Now this I agree with

[King Postwhore]

If they are willing to work it out who am I to think it's not genuine.  That being said, if there is a pattern as a second offense for the same issue then the league needs to take action.

Though, from what the report is, he spat on her twice and the way he walked over her and dragged her out does not look like a guy that had any remorse for what he did.

[El Barto]

Drunk people are never remorseful (until the next day, that is).

And the reports I've read seem to be all over the place. I haven't heard about him spitting on her, but I did read she spat at him before he clocked her. Part of the problem is that the video isn't good enough to show precisely what happened. It's just good enough to allow people to fill in blanks in their own preconceptions.

And I agree about a pattern. If this were an ongoing thing I'd be less inclined to take her sincerity at face value. As far as anybody knows this is a one-off offense.

[snapple]

Courts should handle this.

[Ben_Jamin]

These "mob rule" mentality reminds me of the witch trials. Basically, they are screaming he is a witch and are accusing him and automatically considering him one without the facts.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

As for Rice and domestic violence, I think what he did was pretty shitty, but then I'm not married to him, I won't be riding in any elevators with him, and I wasn't personally affected by his behavior.  His wife was all three, and she seems to have forgiven him and wants to move on. The Man is perfectly cool with that arrangement with a little counseling thrown in for good measure. My judgement of his actions means precisely jack shit, and frankly, nor should the self-righteous bleating of the mob, and the NFL shouldn't be bullied into caving to them.

Hear!  Hear! 

That bolded out part proves you know exactly jack shit about how victims of domestic violence react to things. Speaking as someone who dated a lawyer who does a lot of work with battered women, I can say that with massive authority.

I know plenty about battered women, thanks for the condescension.  I also know about grace, compassion, and forgiveness, of which Rice's wife is the only one on earth displaying any.  It's also weird that the only person ACTUALLY AFFECTED BY THIS INCIDENT is the only one whose voice is being ignored.  It seems like everyone else is eager to jump to "battered wife syndrome" so they can put her in that box and chalk up another example and put another notch in the victory column, without ackowledging the fact that life isn't simple, it is very complex, and maybe, just maybe, this isn't a case of a guy repeatedly beating his wife, but both of them having a bad night, and having real reconciliation and forgiveness.  That is a matter between them as a couple, and I don't get a vote on that, and neither should anyone else. 

And speaking as a member of the massive bleating mob-HE KNOCKED OUT A WOMAN COLD. COULD HAVE KILLED HER. Who gives a fuck how many fantasy points he might have earned this year? You think he needs to be representing a national sporting league and making millions? I sure as shit don't.

I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about Fantasy Football, or about the Baltimore Ravens (no offense, DoC).  I think if a guy is accused of a crime, and charges aren't pressed and the matter is dropped (from a legal perspective), there is only so much that should be done by his workplace, virtually regardless of what that workplace is.  That's how every other citizen in America would be treated by their job.  I don't care that he makes millions, that is irrelevant.

None taken. I understand the context of your words, and echo them.

[PuffyPat]

What a bad year for NFL RBs and domestic violence. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/arizona-cardinals-rb-jonathan-dwyer-charged-assault-n205781 Maybe there's a correlation...

[snapple]

These "mob rule" mentality reminds me of the witch trials. Basically, they are screaming he is a witch and are accusing him and automatically considering him one without the facts.

With Peterson, yeah. The difference with Ray Rice is we ALLLL saw it.

[jingle.boy]

Does anyone else think this discussion is starting to tread into P/R territory, and think that opinions on this matter should have it's own thread?  I'd like this to actually be talk about FOOTBALL.

[black_biff_stadler]

Agreed. The lack of discussion about the Saints' shortcomings is appalling.

[jammindude]

QB's on Facebook is still funny!!  How about the latest one to get back on track?

https://profootballmock.com/facebookchat/nfl-qbs-on-facebook-be-very-afraid/

 

[jingle.boy]

Yeah, I caught up on the FB QB chats on Monday.  Some of the pre-season ones were pretty good too.  That's how they go though... they start really good, then get pretty stale by about mid-season.  Big Ben still gives me a chuckle the most I think.

BECAUSE ALL HE DOES IS STATE THE OBVIOUS

[hefdaddy42]

The Saints are awful.