Would you like to see Portnoy back in Dream theater?

[Lucien]

Obviously the band likes Mangini more. They seem EXTREMELY excited about him.

[KevShmev]

This is what absolutely ticks me off about Portnoy. I think he's an incredible musician and will continue to purchase music/projects he's involved in because it sounds good......but this guy is delusional.
  Who's headstrong? DT? Gimme a break.  They're not the ones who tried a strong arm tactic of we're taking a break or I'm leaving.....thinking they'd crumble without his obsessed "leadership". It's strictly speculation but I'd bet near anything it bugs the crap out of him that not only did they not fall apart without him, they've improved in ways he wouldn't allow. Just unreal.
  They've closed the door Mike because they found out what was in the next room was way more rewarding. And how shocking....he happened to work himself back into DTs motives, as if they are still out to get 'him'...cuz it's all about 'him'.... into that quote "prove themselves without me".

Well said, Gary.

[TheGreatPretender]

4. A reunion with MP would open up the potential for a new LTE album somewhere down the road.  As long as he's estranged from JP and JR we know that it will never happen.

I think it's completely the other way around. I mean, now that MM is a permanent member of DT, if JP or JR ever said, "You know, I kind of miss working with MP. Should give him a call." It's not like they'll invite him back into DT, but they could do another Liquid Tension project. If MP was back in DT, then the possibility of another Liquid Tension album would be pretty much none, because three of the four members of LTE would already be IN DT, so going into the studio with the three of them would be pretty pointless.

[Mindflux]

Obviously the band likes Mangini more. They seem EXTREMELY excited about him.

They probably are, but at the same time stating or acting otherwise would be unprofessional and look VERY bad if it seemed like they regretted the choice.

[mikeyd23]

1. I feel that the rest of them tend to be lazy without him when it comes to their performances.  I think he kept them on their toes with switches to the setlist, doing cover nights, etc.

I saw DT on the ADToE tour cycle and they were the opposite of lazy, they seemed very energetic and put on an inspiring show.  I personally, am one of the fans that doesn't miss the cover stuff, I'd rather hear DT play DT tunes.

2. He's the guy that wrote some of my favorite DT songs over the years.  Obviously that alone would make me want him back in the band.  Mangini is a phenomenal drummer, but I don't see him as someone that can make great creative contributions to a band.  I guess I still view him as a hired gun or ace session guy because of his past affiliations.

MP didn't write songs for DT to the best of my knowledge he basically helped with arrangements, unless you just mean lyrics, then obviously he did contribute with those.

3. He was the driving force behind so much of the cool special stuff the band did.  Cover songs, full cover shows, commentaries on the dvds, and official bootlegs.  I doubt they will ever release anymore YtseJam videos or cds without him.

If I remember right, the band expressed a desire to continue doing the official bootleg releases, they just wouldn't be able to access previously recorded material from before MP left that hasn't already been released, because MP has it.

[bosk1]

Personally, I would love it if MP was back with DT for many reasons. 

And you are entitled to feel that way.  But a few points in response to yours.

1. I feel that the rest of them tend to be lazy without him when it comes to their performances.  I think he kept them on their toes with switches to the setlist, doing cover nights, etc.

I'm not seeing any signs of laziness whatsoever.  They've stayed pretty much right on pace in terms of live and studio albums (notwithstanding Live At Luna Park being dayed, but that isn't their problem.  They put in the work, and Eagle Rock has dropped the ball, but stuff like that happens from time to time).  They have toured extensively.  They have done a ton of fan outreach, solo projects, and other things.  I don't see how anyone could think the rest of the band is lazy.  They may not be driven by the same level of self-describued OCD to stay busy as Mike Portnoy is, but they have certainly been anything but lazy.

2. He's the guy that wrote some of my favorite DT songs over the years.  Obviously that alone would make me want him back in the band.  Mangini is a phenomenal drummer, but I don't see him as someone that can make great creative contributions to a band.  I guess I still view him as a hired gun or ace session guy because of his past affiliations.

Um...actually, I don't believe Mike Portnoy has written any songs.  He has contributed to the writing that has been primarily done by JP and Jordan (and others), but hasn't "written" any songs.  And all indications are that Mike Mangini played just as much of a role in the writing of DT12, which we will all be hearing shortly.

3. He was the driving force behind so much of the cool special stuff the band did.  Cover songs, full cover shows, commentaries on the dvds, and official bootlegs.  I doubt they will ever release anymore YtseJam videos or cds without him.

Yes, he was.  And those things should be appreciated.  But the rest of the band has taken a keen interest in doing a lot of similar things, even if they aren't exactly the same things. 

4. A reunion with MP would open up the potential for a new LTE album somewhere down the road.  As long as he's estranged from JP and JR we know that it will never happen.

I guess that's a fair point.  But personally, I've never really felt a burning desire for another LTE album.  Jordan joining DT kind of made LTE irrelevant as a separate entity to me. 

[Onno]

In a brand new interview with the same rado station, LaBrie was asked to respond to Portnoy's comments. "That possibility, I don't see it ever happening; it's not gonna happen," the singer replied. "Because, first and foremost, Mike Mangini is a full-fledged member of the band now, he's a phnomenal drummer and he's doing everything that we could possibly want as a drummer in a band. He's helping us realize exactly what we wanna do right now musically. And he will be our drummer until the day that we finish doing this, when we conclude. Mike Portnoy was a big part of our past, but I think that's where it's going to remain. He was a drummer from the past. And as far as presently and into the future, it will be Mike Mangini, and we all feel very strongly about that. He's an incredible drummer, he's an incredible asset to the band, and he is fulfilling out wildest dreams as far as what we're doing musically and what we're doing with each album. So that's the way it stands."

Nobody noticed that?

I really want to read/hear the whole interview with JLB.

[Kotowboy]

Imagine if in the future - DT released an entirely instrumental album on the same day as a new Labrie solo album...

[The Boomr]

Imagine if in the future - DT released an entirely instrumental album on the same day as a new Labrie solo album...

Wouldn't phase me much, I don't tend to buy JLB's solo stuff.

In response to some above stuff: the only aspects in which I personally see DT as having been lazy after MP left are the loss of rotating set lists and the use of click tracks live. But even then, both of those things aren't really about being lazy. Click tracks are so that they can use all kinds of layers and patches behind their music so it sounds closer to the studio versions, not threadbare. And the elimination of rotating setlists makes it easier for the band to know their shit REALLY WELL, from night to night, instead of constantly having nearly the entire back-catalog ready to go. For example, I'm pretty sure JP's guitar solo accuracy increased during the last tour because they were only playing specific songs.

[Onno]

Click tracks? During every song?

[Kotowboy]

Mangini has a click in his ears during every song yes. It's so they can spin in backing vocals from the studio versions of songs.

Portnoy always used to speed up if i recall .

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't think there's anything wrong with having click tracks. But I actually don't like hearing pre-recorded backing vocals. I'd rather hear no backing vocals or samples at all, during a live show.

[snapple]

bosk, Rena did come here and say that MP did in fact write Burning My Soul, the rest has essentially been JP.

[Onno]

I don't think there's anything wrong with having click tracks. But I actually don't like hearing pre-recorded backing vocals. I'd rather hear no backing vocals or samples at all, during a live show.

For DT, yes, I completely agree. Or maybe JP should just do them.

[TheGreatPretender]

For DT, yes, I completely agree. Or maybe JP should just do them.

Definitely, but if he can't, like if he needs to focus on a more complex guitar part and can't do the backup vocals, I see nothing wrong with omitting them all together. The problem, too, is that a lot of the songs on ADTOE, the vocals were so layered, that it really doesn't even sound like melody and harmony, it just sounds like... A bit of a mess. Particularly on the choruses of BMUBMD and LNF.

[Onno]

For DT, yes, I completely agree. Or maybe JP should just do them.

Definitely, but if he can't, like if he needs to focus on a more complex guitar part and can't do the backup vocals, I see nothing wrong with omitting them all together. The problem, too, is that a lot of the songs on ADTOE, the vocals were so layered, that it really doesn't even sound like melody and harmony, it just sounds like... A bit of a mess. Particularly on the choruses of BMUBMD and LNF.

Yeah, that's an issue I had with ADTOE as well. I didn't like the doubletracking (or whatever it's called) of almost every vocals. The only songs which didn't feature a lot of that were the ballads, and I think the vocals sounded way better on those.

[bosk1]

bosk, Rena did come here and say that MP did in fact write Burning My Soul, the rest has essentially been JP.

Even if true, that's still a far cry from "Mike Portnoy wrote all my favorite songs!"

[The Boomr]

Click tracks? During every song?

I've never actually found a source confirming that this is true, but I and many other members have concluded they must definitely be using click tracks because of background things that must be in time with the music, yes.

Mangini has a click in his ears during every song yes. It's so they can spin in backing vocals from the studio versions of songs.

Portnoy always used to speed up if i recall .

I did not realize they do it primarily for the backing vocals...that's a little lame. And yes, Portnoy sped up ALL THE TIME lol.

The reason the click tracks disappoint me is because Mangini said in an interview in 2011/2012 that he has an exceptionally great sense of timing, so I was expecting that to translate super well on stage as he wouldn't ever be speeding up like MP did, even though still not using a click track (a la Peart, the human metronome). But then they ended up using click tracks. :/ Meh. It's not a huge issue for me as long as I don't think about it too much.

[TheGreatPretender]

Didn't MP speed up during Dance of Eternity on LSFNY? As if that song wasn't complicated enough, lol.

[FracturedMirror]

Personally, I would love it if MP was back with DT for many reasons. 

And you are entitled to feel that way.  But a few points in response to yours.
---------------------------------------------
I'm not seeing any signs of laziness whatsoever.  They've stayed pretty much right on pace in terms of live and studio albums (notwithstanding Live At Luna Park being dayed, but that isn't their problem.  They put in the work, and Eagle Rock has dropped the ball, but stuff like that happens from time to time). 

Um...actually, I don't believe Mike Portnoy has written any songs.  He has contributed to the writing that has been primarily done by JP and Jordan (and others), but hasn't "written" any songs.  And all indications are that Mike Mangini played just as much of a role in the writing of DT12, which we will all be hearing shortly.

Yes, he was.  And those things should be appreciated.  But the rest of the band has taken a keen interest in doing a lot of similar things, even if they aren't exactly the same things. 

I guess that's a fair point.  But personally, I've never really felt a burning desire for another LTE album.  Jordan joining DT kind of made LTE irrelevant as a separate entity to me.

Laziness in performance isn't really the best term for what I mean, Bosk.  Predictability comes closer. 

Mentioning the new dvd leads to something else I miss about MP: He always tried to make each DT dvd release unique by including songs that hadn't been represented on live albums.  The new Luna Park disc totally ignores the Black Clouds songs, leaving that entire album without a presence on any DT live disc.

By songwriting I meant lyrically.  Like ACOS and the AA songs.

We couldn't be farther apart about LTE.  LTE is instrumental magic.  That magic is what led to Jordan wearing a wizard hat, you know.

[The Boomr]

Didn't MP speed up during Dance of Eternity on LSFNY? As if that song wasn't complicated enough, lol.

Hehehe, I think he did, although not as badly as some other recordings, like the beginning of Blind Faith on CIM O.o JM is just chillin with his nice beautiful bass sounds, then OMFGPORTNOYLETSFASTERYAY hahaha. Or one of the live recordings of TGP (the song ). I always notice in that live recording of TDOE, at a lot of the transition points you can hear JP JM and JR deliberately slow down their parts slightly to try and get back to something more comfortable!

[rumborak]

You know, I almost miss the tit-for-tat of the early MP departure days. Ah, the days where every day there might be a new interview with MP, another acrid jab at DT...

I wish somebody had chronicled all that shit. It was entertaining for sure and would make for an occasional good read.

[FracturedMirror]

bosk, Rena did come here and say that MP did in fact write Burning My Soul, the rest has essentially been JP.

Even if true, that's still a far cry from "Mike Portnoy wrote all my favorite songs!"

I never said that at all, I said he's written "some of my favorite DT songs".  Big difference between some and all.

[TheGreatPretender]

I never said that at all, I said he's written "some of my favorite DT songs".  Big difference between some and all.

But to be fair, there's also a big difference between "written the songs" and "written the lyrics".

[wasteland]

Laziness in performance isn't really the best term for what I mean, Bosk.  Predictability comes closer. 

Mentioning the new dvd leads to something else I miss about MP: He always tried to make each DT dvd release unique by including songs that hadn't been represented on live albums.  The new Luna Park disc totally ignores the Black Clouds songs, leaving that entire album without a presence on any DT live disc.

Excuse me!  You are obviously entitled to your own sacred opinions, byt allow me to recall you that this forthcoming DVD will feature the first ever band only performance of Metropolis on a live DVD, an in-song improvisation during the aforementioned, a 12 minute keyboard+guitar improvisation, solos by every member but JM, 4 acoustic songs performed with brand new arrangements for a string quartet and the full performance of the ADTOE album. And that's without even mentioning the 360° technology, the 20 cameras (some of those flying), the HD Blu Ray quality and JLB's exceptional form.

We are not butterflies collectors, to feature a never-before played song isn't the only way to make a live release unique, and we are all going to know that come this November.

[TheGreatPretender]

this forthcoming DVD will feature the first ever band only performance of Metropolis on a live DVD

Can you elaborate on that? What do you mean?

[wasteland]

this forthcoming DVD will feature the first ever band only performance of Metropolis on a live DVD

Can you elaborate on that? What do you mean?

In no other DVD we could see the band performing Met alone on stage. I know it sounds mindblowing, but it's true! Think to that:

LIT --> Didn't make the cut
5YIALT --> Just a part of it
LSFNY --> Didn't make the cut for the DVD
LAB --> //
Score --> Orchestra Present
CIM --> //

[TheGreatPretender]

Huh... how about that.

[FracturedMirror]

Laziness in performance isn't really the best term for what I mean, Bosk.  Predictability comes closer. 

Mentioning the new dvd leads to something else I miss about MP: He always tried to make each DT dvd release unique by including songs that hadn't been represented on live albums.  The new Luna Park disc totally ignores the Black Clouds songs, leaving that entire album without a presence on any DT live disc.

Excuse me!  You are obviously entitled to your own sacred opinions, byt allow me to recall you that this forthcoming DVD will feature the first ever band only performance of Metropolis on a live DVD, an in-song improvisation during the aforementioned, a 12 minute keyboard+guitar improvisation, solos by every member but JM, 4 acoustic songs performed with brand new arrangements for a string quartet and the full performance of the ADTOE album. And that's without even mentioning the 360° technology, the 20 cameras (some of those flying), the HD Blu Ray quality and JLB's exceptional form.

Surely this can't be the first Metropolis performance on a live dvd.  Is it really?  How could I have not realized this...I could swear that I've watched it on one of my videos before.  This makes me question all my eyes have ever seen...

JM should have had a solo.  He's been ignored too long.  He could do his bass solo and then fly to the top of the stage for a song like Gene Simmons. 

The acoustic stuff is going to be special, I agree on that.  The 360 stuff doesn't matter to me at all.  And personally I'm afraid that with so many cameras it will be filled with constant angle switching.  So many concert videos have that jumpy editing; some are so bad they should have to put those video game seizure warnings on them!

We are not butterflies collectors, to feature a never-before played song isn't the only way to make a live release unique, and we are all going to know that come this November.

I don't know.  There may be some butterfly collectors among us.

[bosk1]

Laziness in performance isn't really the best term for what I mean, Bosk.  Predictability comes closer. 

I'm not really sure what you mean then, because I don't see how "predictability" fits either.

Mentioning the new dvd leads to something else I miss about MP: He always tried to make each DT dvd release unique by including songs that hadn't been represented on live albums.  The new Luna Park disc totally ignores the Black Clouds songs, leaving that entire album without a presence on any DT live disc.

Okay, well you are saying at least two different things that don't have anything to do with one another.  There is plenty that is uniqute about the forthcoming release, and there are songs that have never been featured before.  Waistland pointed some of that out already, so I won't belabor the point.  As to the Black Clouds songs, okay, yeah, those haven't made the cut yet.  So you're upset because there are no BCSL songs on this one DVD release?  It sounds like your issue is, "they didn't play the songs *I* wanted to hear," which has nothing to do with them not going the extra mile to make this release unique.

By songwriting I meant lyrically.  Like ACOS and the AA songs.

Okay, so you miss Portnoy's lyrics.  Fair enough.

We couldn't be farther apart about LTE.  LTE is instrumental magic.  That magic is what led to Jordan wearing a wizard hat, you know.

Don't get me wrong--I like LTE.  But by the same token, I also don't need another LTE album.

And, no, LTE has nothing to do with the wizard hat.

[Sycsa]

And personally I'm afraid that with so many cameras it will be filled with constant angle switching.  So many concert videos have that jumpy editing; some are so bad they should have to put those video game seizure warnings on them!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt6WSSlyu3s - this came to mind. I actually felt sick to my stomach after three minutes. Such a shame since PSMS is full of some of my favorite musicians.

[bosk1]

I did not realize they do it primarily for the backing vocals...that's a little lame. And yes, Portnoy sped up ALL THE TIME lol.

The reason the click tracks disappoint me is because Mangini said in an interview in 2011/2012 that he has an exceptionally great sense of timing, so I was expecting that to translate super well on stage as he wouldn't ever be speeding up like MP did, even though still not using a click track (a la Peart, the human metronome). But then they ended up using click tracks. :/ Meh. It's not a huge issue for me as long as I don't think about it too much.

Still shouldn't be an issue.  If they want to pipe in background vocals or other effects, a click is necessary.  No matter how accurate a timekeeper Mangini is, it's just not humanly possible to be that accurate over the course of, for example, a 10-minute song.  Having the click doesn't take anything away from the song.  It just helps make sure things match up when they patch in those other sounds.

[wasteland]

You are speaking with one. But while I hold shows like Pughkeepsie 1998 among the very best of Dream Theater, live and studio alike, I can't ask the band to put out something like that offiially. The purpose of official release is to promote an album and the band's live activities, and secondarily to appeal to the oldest or die-hardest fans with hidden gems little known to the 90% of the fandom.

[wasteland]

Okay, well you are saying at least two different things that don't have anything to do with one another.  There is plenty that is uniqute about the forthcoming release, and there are songs that have never been featured before.  Waistland pointed some of that out already, so I won't belabor the point.  As to the Black Clouds songs, okay, yeah, those haven't made the cut yet.  So you're upset because there are no BCSL songs on this one DVD release?  It sounds like your issue is, "they didn't play the songs *I* wanted to hear," which has nothing to do with them not going the extra mile to make this release unique.

Seriously? 

[bosk1]

I was wondering if you would catch that.     Good to know that my silliness isn't waisted.