Would you like to see Portnoy back in Dream theater?

[TheGreatPretender]

But like I said, if we could have Mike Portnoy in the band, and have the band maintain the same kind of energy and spirit that they had after Scenes From A Memory, I'd be all for it. But those days are gone now.

nuggetz

7+ pages later, and you are the first one to notice that. Or the first one to bother reading my post. Either way:

[El Barto]

MP brought, among other things, a spontaneity that's now lacking. I saw half a dozen or so shows with MP and they were all different. Even the Maiden tour which was the same setlist was two different performances. I've seen 5 MM shows and with one exception they were all cookie-cutter shows. Even with different setlists they were still the same show. Honestly, the reason I bothered to see them twice last time around was because I lucked into a front row seat for the second one, and moreover I really wanted to see Crimson Projekct (who quite frankly blew them away one night).

I'll give you that MP was more outwardly spontaneous. But I see MM as more sort of just being in awe, still, that he made it into such an amazing band and is getting to play with them. He's very focused on his playing and his performance musically, which honestly is something MP started being lazy about towards the end, with sloppy performances on occasion that I've mostly ignored. I personally appreciate that MM seems to play every show just as flawlessly as the last. I guess I just feel the energy, between the band members, more than see it. And while yes, Portnoy was more exciting sometimes to watch and spontaneous, the other members certainly weren't partaking in that all that often. There is some truth to that argument that MP was always trying to be the frontman. I don't believe in that to the extreme that others do, and I did enjoy his antics usually, but it is still true. I feel like the band as a whole are now enjoying themselves more than in a long time, and are creating a synergy that doesn't need to be seen on a visual level; it's in the music. For me, at least.

There's something to be said for sloppy. I've never seen DT bungle things to the extent that it was problematic, so a little fail here and there is something that provides heart and humanity. Sheer precision is neat and all, but it's not really why I go to concerts. I'll pay to see that once. No point in seeing it twice.

Interesting corollary. I saw Yes a while back, and I noticed they're one of the few bands still using wedge monitors up front. No in-ear monitors. No click tracks. It was as a consequence sloppier than what we see in modern concerts nowadays. It was also wonderful watching those guys play with each other, live, rather than just trying to reproduce what you hear on the albums. Yes was nowhere near as tight as DT, not even close, but they're a more entertaining live act by a country mile. I would (and subsequently did) travel to see multiple shows from them.

[Kotowboy]

I agree .

Why go see a band who play to a click track and have samples from the album playing over the top ?

That means they can never improvise or play anything unexpected ever because they're stuck to a grid.


My friend Harry is in a band called No Consequence and their entire live show is on a computer and they use Axe FX.

They literally just press play and all the MIDI does everything. The drums are triggered. The Axe FX changes ALL the guitar sounds AND TUNINGS at the

correct time and plays vocal harmonies etc...

Why even bother being in a band ?

[The Boomr]

There's something to be said for sloppy. I've never seen DT bungle things to the extent that it was problematic, so a little fail here and there is something that provides heart and humanity. Sheer precision is neat and all, but it's not really why I go to concerts. I'll pay to see that once. No point in seeing it twice.

Interesting corollary. I saw Yes a while back, and I noticed they're one of the few bands still using wedge monitors up front. No in-ear monitors. No click tracks. It was as a consequence sloppier than what we see in modern concerts nowadays. It was also wonderful watching those guys play with each other, live, rather than just trying to reproduce what you hear on the albums. Yes was nowhere near as tight as DT, not even close, but they're a more entertaining live act by a country mile. I would (and subsequently did) travel to see multiple shows from them.

Well that makes us a little different, then. I do go to Dream Theater shows to see virtuosos recreate what I've heard on the album in a live setting. It's absolutely incredible. Granted, I am disappointed with their choice to start using click tracks after ADTOE (that is correct, isn't it?), especially given Mangini's incredible time-keeping ability, according to himself and JP, but mainly because that means they don't get to show off how good they are at keeping time themselves. But I have never been disappointed by a Dream Theater show, not with MP, not with MM. You and I seem to just have different preferences for drummers. I love Mangini the most out of all the drummers I've listened to because he is incredibly technical and precise but I still feel a groove in his playing. It's very subtle, but it's there. He plays dynamically, too, not just pounding on everything all the time (something that was a very bad habit of mine, in my own drumming).

Ultimately, this is why I'm a die-hard DT fan. They play unbelievably crazy-ass stuff all over the place, invoking the musically weird and fun, as well, yet still somehow manage to evoke emotional responses from me because their songwriting skills are also very very good. And, in live shows, they can recreate that same experience with near-perfect precision (barring JLB :/ ). I go to DT concerts to be in awe of incredible musicians playing for me, the same reason I go to San Francisco orchestra concerts or (especially) guest orchestra concerts like Boston Symphony Orchestra. It's virtuosic. If I want to see guys jam together on stage I'll probably go see a different band. Please note I'm not denouncing Yes in any way, I love their music too. I'm just generalizing.

To ramble on even more for you...Yes, I miss the rotating setlists. I miss the random appearances of funny melodies in the middle of songs (example, Under A Glass Moon on Score, I think). I miss the aforementioned non-use of a click-track. But all these things are minor nuisances in an otherwise incredible experience for me.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

There's something to be said for sloppy. I've never seen DT bungle things to the extent that it was problematic, so a little fail here and there is something that provides heart and humanity. Sheer precision is neat and all, but it's not really why I go to concerts. I'll pay to see that once. No point in seeing it twice.

Interesting corollary. I saw Yes a while back, and I noticed they're one of the few bands still using wedge monitors up front. No in-ear monitors. No click tracks. It was as a consequence sloppier than what we see in modern concerts nowadays. It was also wonderful watching those guys play with each other, live, rather than just trying to reproduce what you hear on the albums. Yes was nowhere near as tight as DT, not even close, but they're a more entertaining live act by a country mile. I would (and subsequently did) travel to see multiple shows from them.

Well that makes us a little different, then. I do go to Dream Theater shows to see virtuosos recreate what I've heard on the album in a live setting. It's absolutely incredible. Granted, I am disappointed with their choice to start using click tracks after ADTOE (that is correct, isn't it?), especially given Mangini's incredible time-keeping ability, according to himself and JP, but mainly because that means they don't get to show off how good they are at keeping time themselves. But I have never been disappointed by a Dream Theater show, not with MP, not with MM. You and I seem to just have different preferences for drummers. I love Mangini the most out of all the drummers I've listened to because he is incredibly technical and precise but I still feel a groove in his playing. It's very subtle, but it's there. He plays dynamically, too, not just pounding on everything all the time (something that was a very bad habit of mine, in my own drumming).

Ultimately, this is why I'm a die-hard DT fan. They play unbelievably crazy-ass stuff all over the place, invoking the musically weird and fun, as well, yet still somehow manage to evoke emotional responses from me because their songwriting skills are also very very good. And, in live shows, they can recreate that same experience with near-perfect precision (barring JLB :/ ). I go to DT concerts to be in awe of incredible musicians playing for me, the same reason I go to San Francisco orchestra concerts or (especially) guest orchestra concerts like Boston Symphony Orchestra. It's virtuosic. If I want to see guys jam together on stage I'll probably go see a different band. Please note I'm not denouncing Yes in any way, I love their music too. I'm just generalizing.

To ramble on even more for you...Yes, I miss the rotating setlists. I miss the random appearances of funny melodies in the middle of songs (example, Under A Glass Moon on Score, I think). I miss the aforementioned non-use of a click-track. But all these things are minor nuisances in an otherwise incredible experience for me.

This is correct.

[The Boomr]

This is correct.

Thank you for your stamp of approval, BOOLsheet ^_^ 

[El Barto]

Well that makes us a little different, then. I do go to Dream Theater shows to see virtuosos recreate what I've heard on the album in a live setting. It's absolutely incredible. Granted, I am disappointed with their choice to start using click tracks after ADTOE (that is correct, isn't it?), especially given Mangini's incredible time-keeping ability, according to himself and JP, but mainly because that means they don't get to show off how good they are at keeping time themselves. But I have never been disappointed by a Dream Theater show, not with MP, not with MM. You and I seem to just have different preferences for drummers. I love Mangini the most out of all the drummers I've listened to because he is incredibly technical and precise but I still feel a groove in his playing. It's very subtle, but it's there. He plays dynamically, too, not just pounding on everything all the time (something that was a very bad habit of mine, in my own drumming).

Ultimately, this is why I'm a die-hard DT fan. They play unbelievably crazy-ass stuff all over the place, invoking the musically weird and fun, as well, yet still somehow manage to evoke emotional responses from me because their songwriting skills are also very very good. And, in live shows, they can recreate that same experience with near-perfect precision (barring JLB :/ ). I go to DT concerts to be in awe of incredible musicians playing for me, the same reason I go to San Francisco orchestra concerts or (especially) guest orchestra concerts like Boston Symphony Orchestra. It's virtuosic. If I want to see guys jam together on stage I'll probably go see a different band. Please note I'm not denouncing Yes in any way, I love their music too. I'm just generalizing.

To ramble on even more for you...Yes, I miss the rotating setlists. I miss the random appearances of funny melodies in the middle of songs (example, Under A Glass Moon on Score, I think). I miss the aforementioned non-use of a click-track. But all these things are minor nuisances in an otherwise incredible experience for me.

To be clear, it's not that I prefer Portnoy to Mangini as a drummer (although I do). It's that I prefer Portnoy's DT to Mangini's DT in the live setting. Unfortunately, their studio work hasn't really done a whole lot for me in a while. It was that live setting that I really liked them in.

As a secondary point, also consider some of the songs we'll never get to hear them play again. Aside from the fact that they'll continue to play more and more Mangini material as they create more, there's the Portnoy specific songs that they probably won't play. I also suspect we're through hearing epics from that era, be they Portnoy related or not.

[The Boomr]

More fair points. Forgot about that aspect, I am really disappointed that I'll probably never hear any of the 12-step suite live, especially TGP. However, I got a glimmer of hope with their latest tour's setlist because they have been playing TROAE, which is an MP song. Granted, a pretty easy one, relatively, but still. That means playing songs with MP lyrics is no longer completely out of the question. And what kind of epics are you referring to? Do you mean things like Octavarium, ITPOE, ITNOG...TOTears? I was under the impression that they already played those tracks VERY sparingly, anyway, before he left. So I hadn't really felt that I was any less likely to hear those tracks on tour (not saying I don't want to).

I just feel that I can't really hold the band to blame for not playing MP songs, if that is indeed the case and they're not ever going to play many MP-penned songs. If I'm going to place blame on someone, it'll be MP, since he is the one who left the band and needed a break, and I completely understand the band wanting to respect him by not playing a lot of that stuff.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

lol ALL DT songs are fair game for live performance from ANY era. The only exception would be The Best of Times possibly. Other than that, there is no reason to refrain from playing any song from the MP era whatsoever.

[El Barto]

I'm not casting blame on anybody. The question was if I'd like to see MP back, and I stated they were a better band with him in it. I suppose if I were to ascribe blame, it would be on MP, and I'm certainly aware of the fact that they all seem to be much happier and more functional with him gone. I suspect that at this point they're glad he left. Still, I don't think we'll ever see Glass Prison again. I know we won't see ACoS. Quite honestly, I suspect in five more years we'll only be seeing two or three pre-8V songs a tour, and that's just another reason I think MP's loss is our loss.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

There is no basis whatsoever to predict what DT will play live in 3-5 years. This extends to beyond the Along for the Ride tour, which is the only one on the horizon. We have no idea how their future set-lists will change.

[The Boomr]

I'm not casting blame on anybody. The question was if I'd like to see MP back, and I stated they were a better band with him in it. I suppose if I were to ascribe blame, it would be on MP, and I'm certainly aware of the fact that they all seem to be much happier and more functional with him gone. I suspect that at this point they're glad he left. Still, I don't think we'll ever see Glass Prison again. I know we won't see ACoS. Quite honestly, I suspect in five more years we'll only be seeing two or three pre-8V songs a tour, and that's just another reason I think MP's loss is our loss.

I highly doubt that the count of pre-8vm songs will drop that low. They have been playing quite a lot of old songs on the current and previous tours, and I expect that to continue. If they were going to drop off old songs like that, if anything I'd attribute it to JLB not being able to sing them and sound good anymore as he reaches past middle age.

[El Barto]

I'm not casting blame on anybody. The question was if I'd like to see MP back, and I stated they were a better band with him in it. I suppose if I were to ascribe blame, it would be on MP, and I'm certainly aware of the fact that they all seem to be much happier and more functional with him gone. I suspect that at this point they're glad he left. Still, I don't think we'll ever see Glass Prison again. I know we won't see ACoS. Quite honestly, I suspect in five more years we'll only be seeing two or three pre-8V songs a tour, and that's just another reason I think MP's loss is our loss.

I highly doubt that the count of pre-8vm songs will drop that low. They have been playing quite a lot of old songs on the current and previous tours, and I expect that to continue. If they were going to drop off old songs like that, if anything I'd attribute it to JLB not being able to sing them and sound good anymore as he reaches past middle age.

They'll lose interest in playing songs that are 20 years old, when they prefer the newer material with MM. They'll play some fan service, but I suspect they'll want to focus on moving forward.

[Perpetual Change]

Not sure MP staying would have changed that. Some dates on Black Clouds tour featured NO pre-Scenes material. ADTOE tours featured a lot of new material, but that tour was the first time fans as a whole clamored for the band to play more of it.

[rumborak]

Regarding the AAA suite never being played, I still maintain that's one of most positive aspects of MP leaving. Had it been a fixed element on some tour it would have been a showstopper for me.

[El Barto]

Regarding the AAA suite never being played, I still maintain that's one of most positive aspects of MP leaving. Had it been a fixed element on some tour it would have been a showstopper for me.

Yeah, I agree. However, TGP alone would have been a surefire ticket for me.

[theseoafs]

I see no reason Glass Prison would be off-limits if The Root of All Evil isn't.  We have no reason to believe ACOS is out of the question either. 

[KevShmev]

Right.  If ACOS isn't played anymore, it will likely be because the band deems it too long to play.  Sounds crazy, but I remember Setlist Scotty saying that JP said The Count... wasn't played much on the last tour cause it was too long.  Granted, those were shows with openers, so it could be different now that they are going back to Evening With... shows, at least on the upcoming tour.

[Zook]

I'd love it if they played the 12 Steps Suite live. No complaints here.

[theseoafs]

Granted, another 20-minute epic on the upcoming tour seems unlikely since we have Illumination Theory, but if they stick with the evening-with format on the following tours, I'll bet they'll dust off ACOS or 8V.

[wolven74]

I'd love it if they played the 12 Steps Suite live. No complaints here.

I'd love if they played this too. I would guess it won't ever happen all the way through. I've always thought that was MPs baby. Its very personal to him, so I'd think they'd shy away from playing it all the way through.

[Zook]

I believe they have joint custody over those songs. MP wrote the lyrics about a personal issue, but it was still a collective effort. The MP's baby excuse just doesn't fly with me anymore... It never really did.

[wolven74]

I haven't seen them live since MP left the band. They've played some of the songs from the AA Suite live haven't they?

[Zook]

They played The Root of All Evil several times on the last tour.

[wolven74]

I'd like to see them play the whole thing live. The songs need to be heard back to back at least once. Don't really know why they haven't, if they have "joint custody" of the songs, except maybe out of respect for MP?

[rumborak]

Even MP admitted afterwards that the whole thing became way too dragged out and more like a chore in the end.

[adastra]

Even MP admitted afterwards that the whole thing became way too dragged out and more like a chore in the end.

And I've never even liked it!  Repentance is boring as balls! 

[aprilethereal]

Even MP admitted afterwards that the whole thing became way too dragged out and more like a chore in the end.

And I've never even liked it!  Repentance is boring as balls! 

+ TSF as well.

TGP and TDS are amazing, TROAE is great, the last two are forgettable IMO.

[adastra]

Even MP admitted afterwards that the whole thing became way too dragged out and more like a chore in the end.

And I've never even liked it!  Repentance is boring as balls! 

+ TSF as well.

TGP and TDS are amazing, TROAE is great, the last two are forgettable IMO.

Yeah  TSF too .  I was waiting for an epic ending , but I found it kinda big let down ._.

[eviljust]

Even MP admitted afterwards that the whole thing became way too dragged out and more like a chore in the end.

And I've never even liked it!  Repentance is boring as balls! 

+ TSF as well.

TGP and TDS are amazing, TROAE is great, the last two are forgettable IMO.

Agree with it. Even if JP solo on TSF is kinda underrated IMO.

[ariich]

Completely disagree with you guys, TSF was the best 12-step song since TGP for me. TDS is easily the weakest.

[adastra]

Completely disagree with you guys, TSF was the best 12-step song since TGP for me. TDS is easily the weakest.

Well , you wanna know why you disagree.. COS YOU ARE WRONG!!





 

[aprilethereal]

Completely disagree with you guys, TSF was the best 12-step song since TGP for me. TDS is easily the weakest.

Well this opinion is objectively wrong

[TheGreatPretender]

Completely disagree with you guys, TSF was the best 12-step song since TGP for me.

Same here. Well, TSF is pretty much on par with TROAE and TGP for me. The other two are pretty solid, but the point is, TSF was a great closer to the suite, and is highly underrated.

[snapple]

I think Mike was cancerous to the band.