Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[BlobVanDam]

That's a tough one for me, because every Trek series has its own strengths and weaknesses. I know we've done this many times before, but if there's one thing DTF loves, it's arbitrarily ranking things!

Overall, I'd say-

DS9
VOY
TNG
TOS
ENT

DS9 is the most consistently great, and I enjoyed it right from the start, but because of the serialized nature of it, I don't come back to it quite as often for individual episodes. But the payoff to those story arcs was epic.
Voyager is maybe an oddball pick given its inconsistencies, but many of the individual episodes are my favourites, and I just find there's something endearing about it. Once they worked out what worked for them and what didn't (and there were plenty of those), and were able to do more of the science-y CG stuff, I think it delivered many fantastic episodes.
TNG is of course great, but it could be a bit preachy at times, and it got off to a really weak start in the first couple of seasons. Still, it's a classic, and I love that cast and the ship.
TOS is very much a product of its time, but its influence is still felt today, and it established an iconic franchise that has endured for 50 years. When it was good, it was pretty good, and when it was bad, it was hilarious and still highly enjoyable. It was fun and silly.
Enterprise was going through the motions because they had to make another series, and it felt very stale by that point. I thought S3 was really good overall, and is something I will rewatch, but come S4 I felt it just devolved into bad fanwank that was unnecessary and only served to highlight the problems with the entire premise of the show being a prequel.

[soupytwist]

TNG is of course great, but it could be a bit preachy at times, and it got off to a really weak start in the first couple of seasons. Still, it's a classic, and I love that cast and the ship.

The first series of TNG is a mixture of hilarious and horrific.   The fact they decided 'The Naked Now' would be a good idea as the second episode - that's an episode where the characters (we've only just meet) act out of character......Then that's followed up by the awful 'Code of Honour'.  Later on we get the "amazing" 'Justice' and 'Angel One'.   These for me are worse than anything from the notoriously bad TOS series 3 (Yup even Spock's Brain).

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, S1/2 of TNG has some major stinkers. Not to mention of course that they ended up having to use so many damn Wesley stories.

I actually don't even mind Spock's Brain. It's silly fun, but it's no sillier than many of the other episodes.

[King Postwhore]

What scares me about you Blob is when you talk about these eppisodes, I know them, I just don't know the titles and you rattle them off like it's no big thing.  I know none of the titles of the eppisodes.

[BlobVanDam]

You can either have a job, or you can have all of the Trek trivia. Not both. We've both made our life choices.

[King Postwhore]

 

I've seen them all multiple times but still.  Daaaaammmmnnnnn!!

[Orbert]

My sister got me this book for Christmas in 1986:



The original Star Trek Compendium, before TNG, before there was anything other than TOS and the first couple of movies.  It was revised and updated a few times, but at the time, this was it.  I read that book cover to cover multiple times, so I'm right there when people toss around episode titles or name obscure characters who only showed up in one episode or something.

But I can understand you lesser fans who can't hang with the real fans.  I don't respect you, but I can understand.

[El Barto]

Whoa Blob calm the fuck down dude, can't disagree with you without you going full on youtube-commentator 
Let me reply the way I reply to youtube commentators, with translation for Barto.

Into Darkness was utter garbage

No, it was awesome.
(Chill discussion guy: I liked it a lot and that means something when I'm bias against Abrams, I've truly hated the guy for years. But then again I understand old fans frustrations with changes.)

And that "whoever" is RICARDO FUCKING MONTALBAN! He IS Khan.

He's awful.
(Chill discussion guy: I really didn't like him in Space Seed and I've repeatedly mentioned that's all I've seen of him, I'm pretty sure he'll be better in Wrath of Khan since it's unanimously praised.)

I was thinking about it and Blob is correct. You probably should just go ahead and what TWoK. It's set about 15 years after TOS, but little has changed so it won't matter much. Honestly, though, considering how highly it's regarded and your dislike of Montalban, you might be sorely disappointed in it. At this point, who knows?

A Private Little War, the interesting thing about this episode is that it highlights the prime directive, possibly the first time it get that's much attention from the main plot as far as I remember, I only heard the term on Into Darkness and I looked it up thinking it's a set of rule and found out it was mainly one rule and that makes it really important so I kinda found it funny how Kirk genuinely does not give a fuck about that rule or just always forgets it and somehow doesn't get punished for it, this episode is not the first time Kirk interferes with problems of a primitive planet, or just a planet that has a way of life he finds to be wrong.
The Tyree/Nona thing was pretty annoying and I thought the concept of agents of two advanced civilization arming and meddling in the affairs of a primitive planet could have been explored so much better, it obviously has Cold War hints. Instead we got way too much focus on Nona and her magic.
7 episodes left in season 2 and then it will be just one season to go, it's gonna be sad when I finish this show but I don't feel like taking another hiatus.

The prime directive pops up all the time, but it's usually just a quick discussion about why it's alright to interfere anyway.
Return of the Archons (Landru)
Tomorrow is Yesterday
A Taste of Armageddon
The Apple
Friday's Child
A Piece of the Action.

All of them have ties to the prime directive, and in some of them it's a pretty big point. Spock usually refers to the non-interference directive. But yeah, APLW is certainly a rare occasions where they make a really big deal about it. And you've got 3 or 4 coming up ending the second season that demonstrate exactly why it's there or where they're also quite concerned about not violating it.

And if you're concerned about running out of TOS, there's nothing stopping you from starting up TNG and bouncing back and forth. It's a very different show, so it won't cause any problems. I'd make up a list like I did for TOS, but given our different tastes it probably wouldn't be helpful. It's just pretty rough getting through the first season.

[Kotowboy]

TNG series 1  is pretty bad. Code of honour is an awful episode.

I don't think S3-7 Picard would let Tasha fight.

The directing is so awkward.

Tasha gets beamed away. Picard turns to look at the camera and says RED ALERT then just stands there

staring down the lens.

It's like a bad TOS episode with the TNG cast with all the same music cues.

It's so weird.

S2 is better and S3 onwards is great.

[Adami]

TNG series 1  is pretty bad. Code of honour is an awful episode.

I don't think S3-7 Picard would let Tasha fight.

The directing is so awkward.

Tasha gets beamed away. Picard turns to look at the camera and says RED ALERT then just stands there

staring down the lens.

It's like a bad TOS episode with the TNG cast with all the same music cues.

It's so weird.

S2 is better and S3 onwards is great.

I'm pretty sure a number of S1 scripts were actually originally for that Phase II show of TOS.

[Kotowboy]

Yes Ilya was originally going to be on phase 2 but she became Troi instead and Ilya was on TMP.

[Kotowboy]

I think S5 or so Picard would have just gotten Tasha back and then demanded the vaccine.

He wouldn't have said Ok Tasha you can fight to the death.

It's cool.

[Adami]

I think S5 or so Picard would have just gotten Tasha back and then demanded the vaccine.

He wouldn't have said Ok Tasha you can fight to the death.

It's cool.

You never know, he could have secretly been more like the audience.

"Okay Tasha, you can fight to the death....it's cool.........-whispers- please lose please lose"

[Kotowboy]

It's weird. I didn't hate Yar.

But after she left - the bridge crew dynamic was a lot better.

Worf was clearly supposed to be security.

Not the pilot.

[Adami]

I was going to say that Worf was an awful security guy too though. Then I realized that pretty much every security person in ST is awful.

The one possible exception being Odo. But everyone else was worthless, including all of their personal.

[soupytwist]

I'm just going to go ahead and say this now - Worf is my favourite Star Trek character.

[Kotowboy]

It is hilarious how he is so often the comic relief and gets shut down do often.

[soupytwist]

It is hilarious how he is so often the comic relief and gets shut down do often.

Its the being serious, getting disgruntled then dropping a deadpan comic bomb that makes him the best in my opinion.  "I am not a Merry Man!"
Dorn always sells it perfectly.

[BlobVanDam]

Worf had some good moments, but a lot of the time I didn't like his character. He was a half-assed Klingon with uptight morals.

[El Barto]

Yeah, it took a couple of seasons of DS9 for him to really start being a decent Klingon.

And following Kowtow's theme of pointing out peculiarities of episodes.

And using a different line for each sentence.

Picard pacing back and forth, nervous as hell because Riker is participating in Worf's training program was silly. Did he really think that Worf was going to skin him or something? "There are some parts of the Klingon psyche better left unknown." WTF? And you want him as part of your bridge crew?

[soupytwist]

Worf had some good moments, but a lot of the time I didn't like his character. He was a half-assed Klingon with uptight morals.

He had some pretty good character development over the shows - I always enjoyed his stuff with the Klingon High Council, getting exiled and his brother stuff.   And the bits with General Martok at the end of DS9 was mostly good stuff.    The stuff with his son Alexander towards the end of TNG was crap though, and while I didn't mind him hooking up with Jadzia (As far as ST romance goes this was one of the best, although thats not saying much) I hated the Ezri crap in the final season.    I think Dorn was great - like Nimoy as Spock, it was a role he was born to play.

[BlobVanDam]

Worf had some good moments, but a lot of the time I didn't like his character. He was a half-assed Klingon with uptight morals.

He had some pretty good character development over the shows - I always enjoyed his stuff with the Klingon High Council, getting exiled and his brother stuff.   And the bits with General Martok at the end of DS9 was mostly good stuff.    The stuff with his son Alexander towards the end of TNG was crap though, and while I didn't mind him hooking up with Jadzia (As far as ST romance goes this was one of the best, although thats not saying much) I hated the Ezri crap in the final season.    I think Dorn was great - like Nimoy as Spock, it was a role he was born to play.

Yeah, I think Dorn played the role great, there were just some personality traits about him that regularly bothered me, especially as far as his relationships went. I was ok with the Jadzia stuff, but DS9 in general knew how to handle things alright. Even Lwaxana was tolerable in DS9.

[El Barto]

Sins of the Father really opened everything up for Worf and all of the Klingons. That was a great contribution to the entire franchise. There were a few episodes that really set a tone going forward, and making the Klingons interesting was certainly one of them. It's a shame they never found a way to do that with the Romulans.

And I never had a problem with Dorn as Worf. I do think he was one of the worst actors of the lot, though. As I explained a page or two back, playing a character you create is easy. When you see the various other characters he played over the years, they were all pretty awful. Just like Spiner.

[Kotowboy]

Yeah, it took a couple of seasons of DS9 for him to really start being a decent Klingon.

And following Kowtow's theme of pointing out peculiarities of episodes.

And using a different line for each sentence.

Picard pacing back and forth, nervous as hell because Riker is participating in Worf's training program was silly. Did he really think that Worf was going to skin him or something? "There are some parts of the Klingon psyche better left unknown." WTF? And you want him as part of your bridge crew?

Picard is pacing and Troi - like a FUCKING SORCERER - says " You're nervous "...

How did she become a Lieutenant Cmdr. anyway ?

At the slightest suggestion of danger - she's on the floor crying.



Edit : And I never once found Lwaxana annoying. She was supposed to be and Majel played her perfectly.

Troi was not supposed to be annoying but she was.

[BlobVanDam]

And more importantly, are Betazoid drivers like the Asian drivers of the galaxy?

[Kotowboy]

And more importantly, are Betazoid drivers like the Asian drivers of the galaxy?

Imagine Lwaxana trying to pilot the Enterprise.

" now now little one. I am daughter of the fifth house. holder of the sacred chalice..I THINK i can fly a Starship... "

[Kotowboy]

There's generally no swearing on Star Trek but occasionally Picard says Merde

[Kotowboy]

The Ferengi are the type of aliens to deliberately board a quarantined starfleet ship - contract a lethal illness and blame the Federation for using it as a new bio weapon against the Ferengi

[BlobVanDam]

The Ferengi are the type of aliens to deliberately board a quarantined starfleet ship - contract a lethal illness and blame the Federation for using it as a new bio weapon against the Ferengi

They're space millennials!

[Progmetty]

And if you're concerned about running out of TOS, there's nothing stopping you from starting up TNG and bouncing back and forth. It's a very different show, so it won't cause any problems. I'd make up a list like I did for TOS, but given our different tastes it probably wouldn't be helpful. It's just pretty rough getting through the first season.

I was thinking about jumping to TNG but I wanted to get to it in production order, if you say it doesn't matter then I might actually give it a shot right away.
I actually have your first list for TOS bookmarked and out of curiosity I keep checking back on it to see if the episode I just watched was on it. The list as I understood was made up as a sampler "best of" so I'd see if I'll get interested in Star Trek. Now that I'm totally hooked and intend on watching everything Star Trek ever produced, there's no need for a TNG list or any other since I'll watch all the episodes anyway, thanks though 
Return to Tomorrow, I'm surprised that one didn't show up on yours or Blob's lists, I found it a very engaging and fun watch.
Well scripted, the meeting where Kirk debates the situation with McCoy, Spock, Mulhall and Scotty was pretty great, even with Shatner's over the top performance. Henoch/evil Spock was really cool.
Good plot and decent script, I really liked that episode.
TNG here I come!

[BlobVanDam]

Return to Tomorrow is a really good episode, it's just not one that usually comes to mind. Seeing Leonard Nimoy playing a different character is definitely the highlight.

Just keep in mind that S1 of TNG is relatively terrible compared to the later seasons. The fact it's one of the very few things we universally agree on in this thread should say it all.

[El Barto]

And if you're concerned about running out of TOS, there's nothing stopping you from starting up TNG and bouncing back and forth. It's a very different show, so it won't cause any problems. I'd make up a list like I did for TOS, but given our different tastes it probably wouldn't be helpful. It's just pretty rough getting through the first season.

I was thinking about jumping to TNG but I wanted to get to it in production order, if you say it doesn't matter then I might actually give it a shot right away.
I actually have your first list for TOS bookmarked and out of curiosity I keep checking back on it to see if the episode I just watched was on it. The list as I understood was made up as a sampler "best of" so I'd see if I'll get interested in Star Trek. Now that I'm totally hooked and intend on watching everything Star Trek ever produced, there's no need for a TNG list or any other since I'll watch all the episodes anyway, thanks though 
Return to Tomorrow, I'm surprised that one didn't show up on yours or Blob's lists, I found it a very engaging and fun watch.
Well scripted, the meeting where Kirk debates the situation with McCoy, Spock, Mulhall and Scotty was pretty great, even with Shatner's over the top performance. Henoch/evil Spock was really cool.
Good plot and decent script, I really liked that episode.
TNG here I come!

And. . .This is why I won't be making a TNG list. 

That was pretty much why I made the list. There are a lot of episodes and many of them blow. That's even more true of TNG. I generally reckon of every series there are about half that are worth watching and half that aren't. In the case of TOS I picked the half that I would watch. Obviously, that list will be different, but I reckon everybody has about the same ratio of episodes they like to watch to those they skip.

Just keep in mind that you're about 1.8 seasons into the ST world, and there are about 25 left to go, and even towards the end there's very strong stuff.

[Kotowboy]

God I hate any episode about LURVE

[Progmetty]

That was pretty much why I made the list. There are a lot of episodes and many of them blow. That's even more true of TNG. I generally reckon of every series there are about half that are worth watching and half that aren't. In the case of TOS I picked the half that I would watch.

I think it's tougher for a TV show to satisfy you than me, I kinda fall for atmospheres and vibes or simply a cast, then individual episodes quality becomes a bit secondary. Like now I'm into "futuristic space federation sends star ships to explore uncharted planets and different alien civilizations" and that's that, whatever's available with that premise attached, I'm gonna watch. That doesn't mean I won't recognize episodes that suck, it just doesn't means that I'd still find some joy in watching them. We had a similar discussion about The Simpsons in Austin when we were hanging out before the DT show, I'm just more "articulate" in typing English than I am speaking it heh, relatively

I just watched the TNG pilot and I have several remarks but most urgent is the question: can the blind black guy see with these shades or does it just show code for his surroundings?
And holy shit there's a Klingon on the bridge

[El Barto]

That was pretty much why I made the list. There are a lot of episodes and many of them blow. That's even more true of TNG. I generally reckon of every series there are about half that are worth watching and half that aren't. In the case of TOS I picked the half that I would watch.

I think it's tougher for a TV show to satisfy you than me, I kinda fall for atmospheres and vibes or simply a cast, then individual episodes quality becomes a bit secondary. Like now I'm into "futuristic space federation sends star ships to explore uncharted planets and different alien civilizations" and that's that, whatever's available with that premise attached, I'm gonna watch. That doesn't mean I won't recognize episodes that suck, it just doesn't means that I'd still find some joy in watching them. We had a similar discussion about The Simpsons in Austin when we were hanging out before the DT show, I'm just more "articulate" in typing English than I am speaking it heh, relatively

I just watched the TNG pilot and I have several remarks but most urgent is the question: can the blind black guy see with these shades or does it just show code for his surroundings?
And holy shit there's a Klingon on the bridge

What he sees looks a lot like infrared.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ-RIhiBtpE He sees both above and below the visual spectrum, so it's much more cluttered and noisy than the thermal shown in the video. In S1E20 they show a scene through his visor. He doesn't see faces well, but sees microscopic cracks in walls and stuff.