Final Fantasy Discussion Thread

[NecessaryPain]

FFVII is the best game ever made.

If you disagree, you are wrong.

[AcidLameLTE]

Okay, Brian.

[Seventh Son]

FFVII is the best game ever made.

If you disagree, you are wrong.

[ehra]

FFVII is the best game ever made.

If you disagree, you are wrong.

How can a game without any bee shooting guns or lightning shuriken be the best game ever made?

[Seventh Son]

FFVII is the best game ever made.

If you disagree, you are wrong.

How can a game without any bee shooting guns or lightning shuriken be the best game ever made?

It has a huge fucking sword! How can a game with a huge fucking sword not be the best? Its not like anyone has ever done that before...

[NecessaryPain]

I could write an essay on why FFVII is the best game ever made.

And it suprisingly has very little to do with extreme nostalgia.

[ehra]

I'm going to assume (hope) that what it does involve is pretending that all of the horrific Golden Saucer minigames don't exist.

Also how crappy FF combat systems usually are. Turn based combat is fine if it makes up for it in being highly strategic, which FFVII really isn't.

Oh, and the terrible Chocobo breeding side quest.



Wow, I might have to change my FF rankings 

[Seventh Son]

I could write an essay on why FFVII is the best game ever made.

And it suprisingly has very little to do with extreme nostalgia.

Do it. I'm interested in why its better than easily 100 different games I could name.

[NecessaryPain]

I'm going to assume (hope) that what it does involve is pretending that all of the horrific Golden Saucer minigames don't exist.

Also how crappy FF combat systems usually are. Turn based combat is fine if it makes up for it in being highly strategic, which FFVII really isn't.

Oh, and the terrible Chocobo breeding side quest.



Wow, I might have to change my FF rankings 

None of those things really make much difference to the overall impact of the game.

I disagree that the combat system is crappy. The Materia system is infact highly technical and there are absolutely tons of crazy combinations with some of the later Materias. With a system like FFX, it offers more stratergy, yes. But I enjoy having to act fast and rely on using a certain combination of moves. It's one of the reasons I love the PS1 FF's. Sometimes a simple approach works best.

It has to be said that all of the battle systems in FF are very good. Even 13's (although I absolutely hate the game)

The chocobo breeding is awesome. Definitely the best Chocobo side-quest in FF history.

[NecessaryPain]

I could write an essay on why FFVII is the best game ever made.

And it suprisingly has very little to do with extreme nostalgia.

Do it. I'm interested in why its better than easily 100 different games I could name.

There is no way there are 100 games better than FFVII. Not a chance. I'd maybe let you have 10, but it would have to be an extremely well thought-out list.

I've played quite a lot of games in my time. Not as much as some. But FFVII has always been my personal favourite. Not just because of the memories; it's the impact it had on gaming, and how it was way ahead of it's time. (yet still mega successful)

Go on give me 10. I'm up for some debate. I'll give you 10 of mine that could (perhaps) match the brilliance of FF7.

[NecessaryPain]

I could write an essay on why FFVII is the best game ever made.

And it suprisingly has very little to do with extreme nostalgia.

Do it. I'm interested in why its better than easily 100 different games I could name.

There is no way there are 100 games better than FFVII. Not a chance. I'd maybe let you have 10, but it would have to be an extremely well thought-out list.

I've played quite a lot of games in my time. Not as much as some. But FFVII has always been my personal favourite. Not just because of the memories; it's the impact it had on gaming, and how it was way ahead of it's time. (yet still mega successful) And the storyline and setting is just pure harmony.

Go on give me 10. I'm up for some debate. I'll give you 10 of mine that could (perhaps) match the brilliance of FF7.

[Seventh Son]

I could write an essay on why FFVII is the best game ever made.

And it suprisingly has very little to do with extreme nostalgia.

Do it. I'm interested in why its better than easily 100 different games I could name.

There is no way there are 100 games better than FFVII. Not a chance. I'd maybe let you have 10, but it would have to be an extremely well thought-out list.

I've played quite a lot of games in my time. Not as much as some. But FFVII has always been my personal favourite. Not just because of the memories; it's the impact it had on gaming, and how it was way ahead of it's time. (yet still mega successful)

Go on give me 10. I'm up for some debate. I'll give you 10 of mine that could (perhaps) match the brilliance of FF7.

ET for the Atari had a HUGE impact for the gaming community (I'd wager its far more important than the entire Final Fantasy series), but that doesn't make it a great game. Nonetheless, my list of ten favorite games ever.

And for the record, this is just personal enjoyment of each game. Arbitrary factors like sales and influence don't mean shit to me.

1. Xenogears
2. Sonic 3 and Knuckles (My entire childhood wrapped itself around this entire fucking game and its still insanely fun)
3. Phantasy Star IV
4. Mega Man X
5. Final Fantasy IX
6. Parasite Eve
7. Super Mario World
8. Dynamite Headdy
9. Ecco the Dolphin
10. Sonic Adventure (Say what you will about camera and extra characters, etc. I didn't mind them at all. And the ending to this game was the pure definition of epic, including the final boss and the final boss music  )

This is just ten games. I can easily do 10x this.

[Ultimetalhead]

And for the record, this is just personal enjoyment of each game.

Exactly. So, why even argue about it?

[Seventh Son]

And for the record, this is just personal enjoyment of each game.

Exactly. So, why even argue about it?

Part of his reasoning is that FF7's influence over the gaming industry makes it the best game ever. Which to me is horseshit.

[NecessaryPain]

I could write an essay on why FFVII is the best game ever made.

And it suprisingly has very little to do with extreme nostalgia.

Do it. I'm interested in why its better than easily 100 different games I could name.

There is no way there are 100 games better than FFVII. Not a chance. I'd maybe let you have 10, but it would have to be an extremely well thought-out list.

I've played quite a lot of games in my time. Not as much as some. But FFVII has always been my personal favourite. Not just because of the memories; it's the impact it had on gaming, and how it was way ahead of it's time. (yet still mega successful)

Go on give me 10. I'm up for some debate. I'll give you 10 of mine that could (perhaps) match the brilliance of FF7.

ET for the Atari had a HUGE impact for the gaming community (I'd wager its far more important than the entire Final Fantasy series), but that doesn't make it a great game. Nonetheless, my list of ten favorite games ever.

And for the record, this is just personal enjoyment of each game. Arbitrary factors like sales and influence don't mean shit to me.

1. Xenogears
2. Sonic 3 and Knuckles (My entire childhood wrapped itself around this entire fucking game and its still insanely fun)
3. Phantasy Star IV
4. Mega Man X
5. Final Fantasy IX
6. Parasite Eve
7. Super Mario World
8. Dynamite Headdy
9. Ecco the Dolphin
10. Sonic Adventure (Say what you will about camera and extra characters, etc. I didn't mind them at all. And the ending to this game was the pure definition of epic, including the final boss and the final boss music  )

This is just ten games. I can easily do 10x this.

Bar Xenogears, there is no way any of those games come close to FFVII. Parasite Eve is a good choice, though.

I think it would be best sticking to games that focus on storyline. It's impossible to fit in a platform game oozing with nostalgia to that of an RPG.

[NecessaryPain]

And for the record, this is just personal enjoyment of each game.

Exactly. So, why even argue about it?

Part of his reasoning is that FF7's influence over the gaming industry makes it the best game ever. Which to me is horseshit.

Key word: Part.

That makes complete sense to me though. It's the same reason why Half Life, MGS and Resident Evil are held in such high regard.

I think we need to define whether we're talking about the best game ever, or your favourite game ever. Which one we having? If it's the later, then it's case closed. Opinions and all. But i'll debate on 'best game ever' if you're up for it.

[Seventh Son]

And for the record, this is just personal enjoyment of each game.

Exactly. So, why even argue about it?

Part of his reasoning is that FF7's influence over the gaming industry makes it the best game ever. Which to me is horseshit.

Key word: Part.

That makes complete sense to me though. It's the same reason why Half Life, MGS and Resident Evil are held in such high regard.

I think we need to define whether we're talking about the best game ever, or your favourite game ever. Which one we having?

Both. I play games that give me the most enjoyment, and those are ten games that have given me an incredible amount of joy over the years. Saying a game is better because of some arbitrary factors makes no sense to me. If its critically acclaimed, fine. That doesn't mean I have to enjoy playing it.

[j]

FFVII is the best game ever made.

If you disagree, you are wrong.

 

It's not even the best game in its own series.  It is a good game though, and one of the better FFs.  And one of the more "revolutionary" games around, but that has nothing to do with quality.

I could write an essay on why FFVII is the best game ever made.

And it suprisingly has very little to do with extreme nostalgia.

Unlikely.  But I'd be interested in reading that essay.

I can definitely see why you consider it the best game ever, but at least be straight and admit that nostalgia is a factor (and probably a major one).  I think a lot of the SNES games I grew up playing are among the greatest video games ever conceived, but I fully admit that my fond memories of playing them with friends as a kid probably have quite a bit to do with it.

-J

[yorost]

FFVII is the best game ever made.

If you disagree, you are wrong.

 

It's not even the best game in its own series.  It is a good game though, and one of the better FFs.  And one of the more "revolutionary" games around, but that has nothing to do with quality.

That pretty much sums it up.

[NecessaryPain]

FFVII is the best game ever made.

If you disagree, you are wrong.

 

It's not even the best game in its own series.  It is a good game though, and one of the better FFs.  And one of the more "revolutionary" games around, but that has nothing to do with quality.

That pretty much sums it up.

Although I don't like to use this as an excuse: most fans will argue FFVII is the best in the series. I'm sure you can all agree it's the most popular.

And rightfully so, IMO. I've finished every FF bar X-2, and while I love FFVIII, IX and X, there is just no way that either of these games hold up to the sheer epicness of FFVII. I will accept that VI is up there with the very best, maybe even THE best in the series. But personally, I think VII's storyline development kills it.

A lot of people seem to be mentioning IX. While I really like the game, it does go downhill at the third disc when you realise half of the world map accounts for nothing, and the Kuja storyline just gets very boring. Which is a shame because the first and second disc were absolutely brilliant.

FFVII, simply put, paved the way for every RPG that followed. Most important storyline-progressive video game ever made.

[Perpetual Change]

I liked 7 when I first played it, and still love it, but if I were to play it today I'd be much less impressed with the storyline. Mainly because of the characters. There's a talking dog, an stereotypical 70s black-guy who curses too much, another tough-guy who curses too much, a chick with boobs that are distastefully big, a ninja, and a vampire.  On top of that, the dialog definitely reeks of, "we're gonna make a game designed for an older audience now so let's put lots of cursing in it," and main storyline kinda suffers, in retrospect, from the whole "'god-like' being crashes into earth and some evil quasi-religious dude tries to resurrect it to destroy human civilization" trope that SS rehashed plenty of times from CT all the way 'til FFX. Of course, it WAS impressive when I played it when I was twelve years old. In retrospect, it probably IS my favorite PS1 RPG, though during that time of my life I would have given that title to Xenogears. While Xenogears is without a doubt the better story and the better character development, it simply isn't anywhere as near fun to play.   

[ehra]

If anything, I'd say Chrono Cross pulls off plenty of things better than FFVII did. A much more indepth combat/magic system. It pulls off the "darker and edgier" vibe without having to resort to fucks and shits (that I remember, anyway). It manages to pull off a highly convoluted "time travel / alternate dimension" story while having very little, if any, internal contradictions, which I'd say is a feat in of itself. For the most part (I'll get into the rest soon) I'd say it even tells its story better although FFVII certainly had its moments, such as Nibelheim and the Zack flashabck. It does the ambiguous ending while at the same time bringing the game to a satisfying end. And the soundtrack is, no questions about it, far better.

Its biggest problem is that it almost requires a second playthrough to understand what's going on in the last half or so. The game has a few huge info dumps at certain points in the game, and they drop almost too many plot points at once to really be able to register what's going on. Pacing with its plot exposition is definitely a huge problem with the game, which FFVII doesn't really have any problem with at all.


Which isn't to say FFVII's a bad game, but I have a hard time agreeing something's "the best game evar" when I can immediately think of plenty of games that have done a good number of things better. edit: Especially if we count western RPGs like Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, and possible Mass Effect (I'm only about 15 hours into the game but I already get the feeling it's going to be one of my favorites).

[Perpetual Change]

My experience with Chrono Cross wasn't great. I love Chrono Trigger (that's a top 10 game for me), but wasn't really prepared for CC. The info-dumping and cluster-fuck of characters was a big turn off for me. Aside from the awesome music, I really remember NOTHING about that game. Not even what a dungeon looked like or what the names of the characters were. I did beat it, but it froze during the ending CGI. So yeah, my experience with it was an all-around sour one.

But I will say I agree with you about the newer games. The last 5 years or so of western RPGs have blown most of my old favorite JRPGs out of the water. Aside from Persona 3 and 4, there hasn't been a JRPG that's even remotely held my attention since FFX. Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and FFXIII stick out in my memory as being particularly bad.

[Seventh Son]

Xenogears is still one of my favorite games ever. Its mostly a novel in the form of a game, but there's something so entrancing about it that I adore <3

Most of the games I play are just rpgs and platformers though.

[Perpetual Change]

Xenogears had a life-changing effect on me, to be honest. My playing the ethos section of the game pretty much coincided with the part where Billy finds out their secrets. Very weird couple of weeks for me.

I've played the game like 8 times. I love it. It has its flaws, but the story and characters are so fantastic.

[Seventh Son]

Xenogears had a life-changing effect on me, to be honest. My playing the ethos section of the game pretty much coincided with the part where Billy finds out their secrets. Very weird couple of weeks for me.

I've played the game like 8 times. I love it. It has its flaws, but the story and characters are so fantastic.

Yesssssssssssssssssssssss

I think the flaws are appropriate though. I mean, after all the symbolism with religion and psychology and philosophy, the main point of the game boils down to what it means to be human.

And I thought the the second disc was great simply because of how much Fei evolved during disc 2. I don't want to spoil, but everything with his childhood traumas leading up to the end of the game is EPIC <3

[Perpetual Change]

I just realize my post made no sense at all.

I was playing the ethos section of the game *right* when the catholic church scandal started breaking out big time. That combined with the controversial nature of the game really threw me off balance, hehe.

But by "flaws" I don't mean in the plot, though the name-dropping does get a little obnoxious. I was just talking more about the actual gameplay. The random encounters happen way too sporatically, the dungeons are a little on the bland-side, the gear fighting is annoying and takes away from the awesome stuff you learn to do with the characters. Oh, and the jumping makes for some epically fake difficulty at certain sections of the game.

Also, there's a few times in the game where you can seriously screw up all your progress. I think any-time where you fight Elly's solarian friends is like a trap for n00bs that might force people who don't know better to restart. Especially since upgrading your gear is never really explained or emphasized before certain parts of the game.

Also, the sheer amount of dialog before some boss fights made for some VERY frustrating sections.

All in all, as good as Xenogears is from a plot perspective, the gameplay itself is full of traps. It's no wonder-- I used to have two copies of the game, one which was mine and one which I lent out. No-one I ever let borrow it was able to finish it. Everyone would get stuck at the part where the Solarians come after Weltall at Kishev or, at the very latest, Shevat when you defend it from Solaris.

[Perpetual Change]

On a related note, I really enjoyed Xenosaga 1 and 3. It's a shame 2 had to be there.

[Seventh Son]

I didn't mind the platforming at all. It came fairly naturally to me except for not being able to jump during a random battle but w/e

And I thought the gears were really cool! But that's just me I suppose.

I found the dialog in the game interesting, but I understand the complaint of it being a lot. When I play this game I tend to take it more or less as a novel into a game rather than a typical RPG.

Upgrading wasn't really an issue for me, I'm a completist by nature and always try to find everything I possibly can so it wasn't long until I realized you had to upgrade. I'm the type that talks to every person in every town

[NecessaryPain]

I've not actually finished Xenogears as it was never released over here in the UK.

I managed to borrow it for a few days and thought it was excellent. I'll accept that games like Xenogears, Chrono Trigger, FFVI, are worthy in comparison to FFVII.

I think VII gets the credit it deserves from being the first game to actually appear on CD, and set such a benchmark for the RPG genre. It was the first game to utilize the FMV and span across 3 discs. For a console game, this was just unheard of at the time. Not to mention the advanced plot, twists and turns, the soundtrack etc.

My Top 10 games would be something along the lines of:

1. FFVII
2. Shenmue I and II (i'm not splitting up these 2 masterpieces)
3. Metal Gear Solid (another legendary game that broke the barrier)
4. Silent Hill 2 (best ever horror game, bar none. Best storyline and a work of art)
5. Half Life 2 (definitely the best FPS i've ever played. Totally re-defined the genre)
6. Suikoden 1 (masterpiece 2D RPG from Konami)
7. FFVI (best bunch of RPG characters ever, stunning soundtrack)
8. Super Mario Bros 3 (best platform game i've ever played)
9. Suikoden 2 (solid addition to an already immense RPG series)
10. Skies Of Arcadia (steals a lot of elements from past epic-RPG's. But a wonderful experience all-round)

Other games like Chrono Trigger, Broken Sword, Vagrant Story, MGS3, Parasite Eve, Fallout 3, would be up there.

I'm forgetting Uncharted 2 as well. Which is the best game i've played this gen. Absolutely stunning.

[yorost]

Although I don't like to use this as an excuse: most fans will argue FFVII is the best in the series. I'm sure you can all agree it's the most popular.

From all I've ever seen most fans will argue something other than VII is best in the series.  VII will just have the most fans arguing for it in particular as the best.  There's a big difference.

[Seventh Son]

Still strongly disagree on FF7 being the best, but w/e

Point is, my list is made up of games that have given me the most joy, and I enjoyed them far more than I did FF7. To me, there is no distinction between favorite and best. Trying to make an "objectively" best game is just silly.

[Perpetual Change]

During my high-school days, my list would have looked like this:

1.) Xenogears
2.) Chrono Trigger
3.) Final Fantasy 7
4.) Metal Gear Solid 3
5.) Xenosaga Series
6.) Metal Gear Solid
7.) Megaman Legends Series
8.) Star Ocean 2
9.) Star Ocean 3
10.) Final Fantasy X

Now, my list would probably look more like this

1.) Persona 3
2.) Fallout 3
3.) Xenogears
4.) Chrono Trigger
5.) Final Fantasy 7
6.) Mass Effect Series
7.) Red Dead Redemption
8.) Metal Gear Solid 3
9.) Metal Gear Solid
10.) Megaman Legends Series

[Genowyn]

How can you have P3 on your list and not P4? Did the more interesting story, better music, improved gameplay, and cooler villains piss you off too much? 

[Perpetual Change]

How can you have P3 on your list and not P4? Did the more interesting story, better music, improved gameplay, and cooler villains piss you off too much? 

Actually, that's a mistake. But P3 had the more interesting story and better music.