Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[ariich]

BTW The "Abdicate the throne, majesty ..." part of A glutton for punishment is maybe the best part for me right now. So good! 

If I were to change one thing about Messiah Complex, it would be to make that part longer. It'd make a near-perfect song even better!

Yeah that's one of my favourite parts of the whole album. I love that dark, quirky, theatrical kind of metal. They've not really done it since bits of Visions.

[NoFred]

BTW The "Abdicate the throne, majesty ..." part of A glutton for punishment is maybe the best part for me right now. So good! 

If I were to change one thing about Messiah Complex, it would be to make that part longer. It'd make a near-perfect song even better!

This for maybe 10 parts of the song, lots of goodness lost as there’s not enough time to hang on. Also wish Only Stars started with a minute of instrumentation to bring us down from the craziness that is MC.

Songs 1-5 a really great run, with Carousel still scoring 11/10 for me.

[Elite]

Carousel doesn’t really do anything for me so far. I would currently, after three or four full listens, call it the worst track on the album. Can anyone explain to me why they think it’s so good?

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Regarding some of the comments earlier regarding similarities to TOT keyboards, I can definitely see it. I definitely hear Diego throughout the album, I suppose I’m just more disappointed in the performance. There’s few moments that are sonically pleasing to me, and I don’t know if that’s because of the mix, the lack of inspiration, or what.

I think the reason Affinity is by far my favorite album from them is because Diego sounds incredible on there. Red Giant’s atmosphere and ambience is absolutely perfect and he’s why it’s my favorite Haken song. His work throughout the rest of the album is stellar.

I guess I just feel his contributions aren’t the same on this album. And I’m not so sure if it’s because of the heavier direction over the last 2 albums. I absolutely loved him on Vector. It just feels different here to me. Maybe I’m not explaining it well, I really don’t know how to

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Carousel doesn’t really do anything for me so far. I would currently, after three or four full listens, call it the worst track on the album. Can anyone explain to me why they think it’s so good?

There’s a really cool riff that lasts for like 7 seconds somewhere near the end that I really like, but then it changes so quickly

[NoFred]

Carousel doesn’t really do anything for me so far. I would currently, after three or four full listens, call it the worst track on the album. Can anyone explain to me why they think it’s so good?

Given I admittedly overrate it’s probably just personal taste. For me it changes up frequently but at its heart has 3 or 4 ideas and keeps coming back to them, so there’s a through line that makes it a cohesive song.

Also the one song with singing which usually is one of their strengths... lots of talking/yelling on this album (understandable trying to compete with the wall of sound)

[Buddyhunter1]

Carousel starts out really great. One of the best choruses on the album and some really good riffs, too. The flow is a bit weird though... it has their typical mini-epic song structure with a break/change-up in the middle, except instead of happening once it happens twice, with an extra chorus thrown inbetween. The first couple times I heard it I was caught off-guard seeing that it still had a few minutes to go after that third chorus.

[NoseofNicko]

Just a question, anyone else’s jewel case CD version of Virus has a crack in the back under the InsideOut logo? Just wondering because I got 2 copies and both have that same exact crack.

[Ben_Jamin]

Anyone had a chance to pour through the lyrics and interpret the story yet?

I'm still waiting for mine to ship. Which it should be tomorrow.

[Evermind]

Mine shipped yesterday. Should arrive no later than September 7th. I expect it to arrive mid-August though.

[jammindude]

Some further thoughts after a couple more lessons at work today.

After listening to both albums back to back on at least two occasions now, I’ve come to the conclusion that they work better as a complete unit. It does manage to be a bit better than the sum of its parts.  i’m actually beginning to think that it may have been a mistake to release it as two separate albums two years apart from each other. It’s all one “sound” and all one concept, I think releasing a 2CD concept album after affinity would’ve been the right move. Then we could all sit around and debate about whether we liked disc one or disc two better. But at the end of the day, at least we would have the one album with the one sound and they would’ve gotten that out of their system. Love it or hate it, at least it would be its own entity.

[Skeever]

Some further thoughts after a couple more lessons at work today.

After listening to both albums back to back on at least two occasions now, I’ve come to the conclusion that they work better as a complete unit. It does manage to be a bit better than the sum of its parts.  i’m actually beginning to think that it may have been a mistake to release it as two separate albums two years apart from each other. It’s all one “sound” and all one concept, I think releasing a 2CD concept album after affinity would’ve been the right move. Then we could all sit around and debate about whether we liked disc one or disc two better. But at the end of the day, at least we would have the one album with the one sound and they would’ve gotten that out of their system. Love it or hate it, at least it would be its own entity.

I am a very casual fan, granted, but I have listened to every Haken album close to its release date. And I had no idea that the two albums were supposed to be related.

[me7]

Start by listening to Clear and Only Stars back to back.

[gmillerdrake]

So how serious is this ‘Diego May leave the band’ rumor? Is there any real evidence of this or is it just internet speculation based off of minimal info?

[jammindude]

So how serious is this ‘Diego May leave the band’ rumor? Is there any real evidence of this or is it just internet speculation based off of minimal info?

It’s all speculation. I’m not taking it very seriously at the moment. But I have to admit that the silence is deafening.

This is a band that is usually halfway decent about their internet presence. But now that these rumors have gotten to critical mass, everyone is suddenly dead quiet. It’s a little weird.

[gmillerdrake]

So how serious is this ‘Diego May leave the band’ rumor? Is there any real evidence of this or is it just internet speculation based off of minimal info?

It’s all speculation. I’m not taking it very seriously at the moment. But I have to admit that the silence is deafening.

This is a band that is usually halfway decent about their internet presence. But now that these rumors have gotten to critical mass, everyone is suddenly dead quiet. It’s a little weird.

That’s how I feel. I would have thought/hoped were this just some dumb rumor it’d have been squashed immediately by Diego and the other guys. But nothing......zippo.....just crickets. That’s why it ‘feels’ like it could be true?

[faizoff]

Got the mediabook today, I really like it and it goes well with the Vector one.

[jammindude]

My last couple of posts have been fairly “stream of consciousness“. Just typing things out as they occur to me.

But I think it’s worth stating that after twice more listening to both albums back to back I have gained a bigger appreciation for both of them. It really does help to view them as a two CD concept album rather than two separate albums. The only thing that really breaks the flow is those weird vocalizations at the end of vector. I seem to remember that a lot of people were complaining that a cell divides didn’t feel like a proper ending. Not everybody, but a few people were definitely of that opinion. And I have to say, that I think that song definitely works better as a close to act one rather than the ending of an album.

I have not been a very big fan of vector ever since it came out. But when I heard that virus was a sequel of sorts I did hold out hope that the material on virus would elevate the whole of the concept starting with vector. At this point, maybe it’s just a placebo effect or maybe it’s just becoming more familiar with the material on both albums after having a lengthy break from Haken since vector was released... But the end result is that I have gained a new appreciation for all the material on both albums. And I find that hearing them both back to back really does make the entire concept flow better.

[Ben_Jamin]

Vector
1. Host
2. A Cell Divides
3. Veil
4. Puzzle Box
5. Nil By Mouth
6. The Good Doctor
7. Clear

VIrus
1. Canary Yellow
2. Messiah Complex
3. Carousel
4. The Strain
5. Prosthetic
6. Invasion
7. Only Stars

[jammindude]

I’m not ready to start ranking them yet, but I am starting to change my tune on invasion. It’s truly “a tale of two songs“... I personally think the verses are the catchiest thing they’ve ever recorded. Literally haven’t been able to get the first two minutes of the song out of my head since it was first released....and I’m not even sick of it. I love it more than anything they’ve ever done. But the chorus doesn’t live up to the buildup, and the solo is...well wait, what solo? Did Kurt Cobain rise from the grave to cut a solo for Haken? It’s like...one note, and then another note a bar later.  I’m still completely addicted to those verses, but the payoff isn’t there.

[Ben_Jamin]

My last couple of posts have been fairly “stream of consciousness“. Just typing things out as they occur to me.

But I think it’s worth stating that after twice more listening to both albums back to back I have gained a bigger appreciation for both of them. It really does help to view them as a two CD concept album rather than two separate albums. The only thing that really breaks the flow is those weird vocalizations at the end of vector. I seem to remember that a lot of people were complaining that a cell divides didn’t feel like a proper ending. Not everybody, but a few people were definitely of that opinion. And I have to say, that I think that song definitely works better as a close to act one rather than the ending of an album.

I have not been a very big fan of vector ever since it came out. But when I heard that virus was a sequel of sorts I did hold out hope that the material on virus would elevate the whole of the concept starting with vector. At this point, maybe it’s just a placebo effect or maybe it’s just becoming more familiar with the material on both albums after having a lengthy break from Haken since vector was released... But the end result is that I have gained a new appreciation for all the material on both albums. And I find that hearing them both back to back really does make the entire concept flow better.

I did just that and both albums do sound better unified. The talking at the end of A Cell Divides does hinder the flow, but it works as Prosthetic fades in.

I really like the way Haken tends to make their slower songs full of atmosphere.

Messiah Complex didn't need to be split up, but I see why they did as each part is its own part of the story. I don't have my physical copy yet so can't understand the full concept, yet.

[jammindude]

Also, hearing it that way makes both Clear and Only Stars much cooler than they were previously. My opinion that they should have released a double album grows stronger with every spin.

[Pettor]

Possible spoilers below (trying to figure out the story / connections etc.):

From listening to Vector and Virus my assumption so far is that all songs (I know most are but maybe not all?) on the two albums are about the story / origin of the Cockroach King? Vector is 20 years earlier (band said this) than Virus. Messiah Complex is that final twist in the movie (if it was a movie) where the viewers suddenly realize that the person we followed all this time was the Cockroach King with all the reprising themes being sort of flashbacks and the puzzle pieces coming together.

Still don't fully understand what or who the Coackroach King is. I guess his name is Ectobius Rex and a doctor (a "good" doctor even hehe). He punishes people using shock therapy. He is wealthy (Midas touch, "The road from rags to riches leads nowhere" etc.). He lives in his ivory tower (metaphorically ofc) and The Strain has a obvious reference to when he starts descending down that path ("The monster inside me ascending the ivory"). But not really sure what all this leads us. Who is he in the end? A wealthy doctor mistreating patients stuck from the world in his own insanity?

Also there's very obvious references to a patient. Puzzle Box, Nil By Mouth, Prosthetic etc. all seems to be from a specific patient's view? At times I even believe Rex is the patient but that would be strange. So I assume it's a patient to Rex. But what happens to this patient?

BTW when googling Marigold is found a fun reference to Midas. Coackroach King has King Midas touch and the daughter of Midas is Marigold who turned to gold from it ("be careful what you wish for ..."). I realize the fan base must have finished analysing all the pieces already but haha yeah.


Edit: Ectobius is ofc a species of coackroaches 

[CrimsonSunrise]

Possible spoilers below (trying to figure out the story / connections etc.):

From listening to Vector and Virus my assumption so far is that all songs (I know most are but maybe not all?) on the two albums are about the story / origin of the Cockroach King? Vector is 20 years earlier (band said this) than Virus. Messiah Complex is that final twist in the movie (if it was a movie) where the viewers suddenly realize that the person we followed all this time was the Cockroach King with all the reprising themes being sort of flashbacks and the puzzle pieces coming together.

Still don't fully understand what or who the Coackroach King is. I guess his name is Ectobius Rex and a doctor (a "good" doctor even hehe). He punishes people using shock therapy. He is wealthy (Midas touch, "The road from rags to riches leads nowhere" etc.). He lives in his ivory tower (metaphorically ofc) and The Strain has a obvious reference to when he starts descending down that path ("The monster inside me ascending the ivory"). But not really sure what all this leads us. Who is he in the end? A wealthy doctor mistreating patients stuck from the world in his own insanity?

Also there's very obvious references to a patient. Puzzle Box, Nil By Mouth, Prosthetic etc. all seems to be from a specific patient's view? At times I even believe Rex is the patient but that would be strange. So I assume it's a patient to Rex. But what happens to this patient?

BTW when googling Marigold is found a fun reference to Midas. Coackroach King has King Midas touch and the daughter of Midas is Marigold who turned to gold from it ("be careful what you wish for ..."). I realize the fan base must have finished analysing all the pieces already but haha yeah.


Edit: Ectobius is ofc a species of coackroaches 

Love it!  I was driving into work an hour ago saying.. "I really have to figure out this story"  Maybe you have it nailed! (or at least in the ballpark).  So I've been giving it some serious spins the last week.  So far the highlights by far are Carousel and Messiah Complex.  The more I listen to MC... the better it gets. Especially parts 2,3 and 5.

[Ben_Jamin]

Possible spoilers below (trying to figure out the story / connections etc.):

From listening to Vector and Virus my assumption so far is that all songs (I know most are but maybe not all?) on the two albums are about the story / origin of the Cockroach King? Vector is 20 years earlier (band said this) than Virus. Messiah Complex is that final twist in the movie (if it was a movie) where the viewers suddenly realize that the person we followed all this time was the Cockroach King with all the reprising themes being sort of flashbacks and the puzzle pieces coming together.

Still don't fully understand what or who the Coackroach King is. I guess his name is Ectobius Rex and a doctor (a "good" doctor even hehe). He punishes people using shock therapy. He is wealthy (Midas touch, "The road from rags to riches leads nowhere" etc.). He lives in his ivory tower (metaphorically ofc) and The Strain has a obvious reference to when he starts descending down that path ("The monster inside me ascending the ivory"). But not really sure what all this leads us. Who is he in the end? A wealthy doctor mistreating patients stuck from the world in his own insanity?

Also there's very obvious references to a patient. Puzzle Box, Nil By Mouth, Prosthetic etc. all seems to be from a specific patient's view? At times I even believe Rex is the patient but that would be strange. So I assume it's a patient to Rex. But what happens to this patient?

BTW when googling Marigold is found a fun reference to Midas. Coackroach King has King Midas touch and the daughter of Midas is Marigold who turned to gold from it ("be careful what you wish for ..."). I realize the fan base must have finished analysing all the pieces already but haha yeah.


Edit: Ectobius is ofc a species of coackroaches 

OMG...Dr. Rex is Bill Gates....  


I like this guys interpretation.
https://progbreakdown.home.blog/2018/12/05/haken-vector/


I need to do my own. But I want to wait till I get my Virus copy so I can dissect (pun intended) the album artwork.

[erwinrafael]

Whoever thought that mixing the chorus of Puzzle Box with an almost comedic drum beat is a good idea needs to have his ears checked.

[Max Kuehnau]

Whoever thought that mixing the chorus of Puzzle Box with an almost comedic drum beat is a good idea needs to have his ears checked.

well, (slightly off-topic here, but anyway) DT's music features a lot of comedy ever since Jordan joined. Haken's does too apparently. What could be wrong about that? (apart from inaccurate notes, of course)

[Buddyhunter1]

I'm not a fan of the Puzzle Box reprise in Messiah Complex either but I don't think the drum beat has anything to do with it?

[ariich]

I wasn't too hot on that particular reprise at first, but I got used to it and it works well in context with the rest of that movement.

[Buddyhunter1]

It feels really awkward to me. Part of that might be the mixing - there's a noticeable dip in volume right when that bit comes in, when it should be the other way around.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Love all of the reprises but my favorite by far is the reprise of Host in MC-I.

[Ben_Jamin]

Love all of the reprises but my favorite by far is the reprise of Host in MC-I.

Messiah Complex is a great example of "The sum of the whole", the same way The Shattered Fortress is to The 12 Step Suite.

Also, hearing it that way makes both Clear and Only Stars much cooler than they were previously. My opinion that they should have released a double album grows stronger with every spin.

The way they were released reminds me of A TV Mini-Series, with 2 seasons. Vector ends with the The patient being reborn as the human abomination of a cockroach. Virus, is the continuance of him after his rebirth.

The best dream Theater connection is this is their Octavarium Nugget album.

I love how they used Ketchup (Amber Red) and Mustard (Canary Yellow) as the album covers, and the double meaning of using Canary. It leads me to believe they really thought it through, and the references to past albums is intentional just as neat nods (nuggets).

[Ben_Jamin]

Whoever thought that mixing the chorus of Puzzle Box with an almost comedic drum beat is a good idea needs to have his ears checked.

It fits the theme of the song. It represents the patients frustration of trying to solve and understand The Good Doctor" and his plans. It's central to convey that across to the listener. That's how you use music to tell a story.

[cramx3]

After some more listens, I think I like this more than Vector.  I'm a huge fan of The Strain/Canary Yellow.  I feel like those two go together and kind of get forgotten between the epics, but I absolutely love that part of the album.

[Pettor]

Possible spoilers below (trying to figure out the story / connections etc.):

From listening to Vector and Virus my assumption so far is that all songs (I know most are but maybe not all?) on the two albums are about the story / origin of the Cockroach King? Vector is 20 years earlier (band said this) than Virus. Messiah Complex is that final twist in the movie (if it was a movie) where the viewers suddenly realize that the person we followed all this time was the Cockroach King with all the reprising themes being sort of flashbacks and the puzzle pieces coming together.

Still don't fully understand what or who the Coackroach King is. I guess his name is Ectobius Rex and a doctor (a "good" doctor even hehe). He punishes people using shock therapy. He is wealthy (Midas touch, "The road from rags to riches leads nowhere" etc.). He lives in his ivory tower (metaphorically ofc) and The Strain has a obvious reference to when he starts descending down that path ("The monster inside me ascending the ivory"). But not really sure what all this leads us. Who is he in the end? A wealthy doctor mistreating patients stuck from the world in his own insanity?

Also there's very obvious references to a patient. Puzzle Box, Nil By Mouth, Prosthetic etc. all seems to be from a specific patient's view? At times I even believe Rex is the patient but that would be strange. So I assume it's a patient to Rex. But what happens to this patient?

BTW when googling Marigold is found a fun reference to Midas. Coackroach King has King Midas touch and the daughter of Midas is Marigold who turned to gold from it ("be careful what you wish for ..."). I realize the fan base must have finished analysing all the pieces already but haha yeah.


Edit: Ectobius is ofc a species of coackroaches 

OMG...Dr. Rex is Bill Gates....  


I like this guys interpretation.
https://progbreakdown.home.blog/2018/12/05/haken-vector/


I need to do my own. But I want to wait till I get my Virus copy so I can dissect (pun intended) the album artwork.

OMG! Thanks this makes so much sense. I made the wrong assumptions. The doctor is ofc not cockroach king but the patient! Haha love it! Now the whole story goes somewhere and is actually really terrifyingly cool!