What are your thoughts on DT12?

[Bolsters]

More listens and the vastly superior HDTracks version, I am liking the album more. However, I still can't really bring myself to change from "decent" to "very strong". I just don't see much longevity in this album for me at the moment, I'm kind of bored of it already, and I've barely listened to it.

[zepp-head]

^^ Buy the HD tracks version of the album.  It makes it a whole nother monster.  You will actually be able to get into it and remember what you are hearing better.  It's a world better.

While the suggestion is appreciated, I don't see myself spending even more money on an album I'm not completely satisfied with.  I already bought the 5.1 DVD version of it after all.

[Dark Castle]

That and the fact that the CD master really isn't that bad, and it's annoying insinuating people aren't hearing the album correctly because they're not listening to the HD. Now I may be saying that as a guy who got the vinyl, but the Flac/Mp3 download that came with sounds perfectly fine.

[TheGreatPretender]

I thought it was an instant classic, the moment I heard the regular master. But the HD tracks master does make a difference.

[Tick]

That and the fact that the CD master really isn't that bad, and it's annoying insinuating people aren't hearing the album correctly because they're not listening to the HD. Now I may be saying that as a guy who got the vinyl, but the Flac/Mp3 download that came with sounds perfectly fine.

I hear ya. Its fine in its standard version. I'm sure its great but if I didn't already like the record it would make much difference to me.

Its like someone saying...."You don't like Pit bull? Listen to it in HD and that will change!"

Ummmm...no.

[7StringedBeast]

That and the fact that the CD master really isn't that bad, and it's annoying insinuating people aren't hearing the album correctly because they're not listening to the HD. Now I may be saying that as a guy who got the vinyl, but the Flac/Mp3 download that came with sounds perfectly fine.

It's not correct vs incorrect.  It's superior vs inferior.  The HD tracks version has a better mastering job.  There is no denying that.  It doesn't have any clipping and you can actually hear all the instruments.  It has punch.

[T-ski]

I voted "Meh".

I usually find DT albums have a cohesive feeling throughout and I'm not getting it so far on this one.  "The Enemy Inside" and "Along for the Ride" seem like they are there just to have a metal song and a ballad.

There are some highlights though.  I really enjoyed "Illumination Theory", "Enigma Machine" and I think "The Bigger Picture" could have been great if it weren't for Labrie's over the top breathy vocals in the first verse.

The rest of the songs are very middle of the road, not really grabbing me but not really turning me off.

[Zook]

Ok, my thoughts:

False Awakening Suite - Cool intro reminiscent of Symphony X's Oculus Ex Inferni. I love metal Orchestral stuff, and sure, SX does it better, but this is a cool piece.

The Enemy Inside - To continue the SX comparison, this song has the same chugga riff as Set The World on Fire This song is really cool though. awesome opening, and great verses and chorus. As always (unless it's ANTR) the solo section is awesome too.

The Looking Glass - Good song. The main riff is very Rush, but doesn't bother me.

Enigma Machine - Can't unhear that Inspector Gadget melody, but this is a good instrumental. Nice jam. The mellow Count section wasn't necessary though.

The Bigger Picture - My second favorite on the album. The outro is amazingly beautiful. great chorus. Don't mind the spiritual lyrics.

Behind The Veil - Good song. The intro was pointless, but I still like it. Not really too fond of the vocal melodies in the second verse though. Decent track.

Surrender to Reason - Good song. Love the choir section. I only wish James pronounced "anJELS", not anJULS".

Along For the Ride - I didn't like this song at first, but it clicked when listening to the album as a whole. The fact that JR's solo comes in late is aggravating.

Illumination Theory - All around awesome. The "Disney" section kind of kills the momentum, but it's a great piece. LaBrie does some wicked vocal lines, and another great outro. My favorite song on the album.

9/10 Better than ADToE. Mangini is killer, and the whole band is just on fire.

[The Dark Master]

After listening to the album once a day since the first day of the stream, I think I have given DT12 enough time to fully sink in and form an opinion of it and it's contents.

When ADTOE came out, I was kind of at a low with my interest in Dream Theater.  SC and BC&SL, while good, solid prog albums in their own right, did not appeal to me as much as DT's classic work of the 90's or early 2000's (or for that mater, WDADU), and I found Dream Theater's position as my favorite band to be in question.  ADTOE helped towards rekindling my interest, and indeed, my love for this band.  I easily considered it to be the best album that band had made since SFAM, and listened to more upon release then any DT album since Train Of Thought.  That being said, ADTOE still didn't quite reach the heights that Dream Theater did back in the 90's.  It came close, but it was still a bit of a ways off for me from Images, Awake, and Scenes.

The self titled, however, is something completely different.  I can confidently say that it is indeed on par with the holy trinity of I&W, Awake and SFAM.  Not necessarily better, but at least in the same league.  There is a certain magic on this album that Dream Theater has not displayed in a long time.  It's almost as if they are rediscovering themselves, returning to their roots and taking a fresh look at themselves that only 28 years of experience can bring.  I kind of feel like the band returned to the style of WDADU (especially on songs like The Looking Glass), but with a level of maturity and balance that they simply did not have before.  There is a very classic prog-rock vibe to the album, the songs have a certain patience and mastery that only a band with this many years behind them can possess.

That being said, I find the band exploring some new ground on the record.  Especially the orchestral and classic portions, such as False Awakening Suite and the middle section of Illumination Theory, add a vibrant new level of depth, grace and (dare I say it), majesty that the band has simply never shown before.   DT12 is regal to a degree Dream Theater has never been before, and as someone who is a huge fan of symphonic metal, that is a quality which I feel will benefit DT greatly.

Overall, I think the most telling thing about this record is that, upon the first few listens, I found myself less focused on the awesomeness of individual songs, and more on the feel and flow of the album as a whole.  The entire piece simply resonates with me in a way a truly great album should.  Something I have discovered about myself is that albums where I enjoy many individual songs can be highly enjoyable in the short term, but it is the albums that have a consistently pleasant and enchanting feel throughout the whole of the record that I find to have the most enduring appeal.  For that, I rank DT12 as one of the best albums of the band's career.  Perhaps not the best, but it is certainly in the top tier.   

[The Letter M]

Has anyone else noticed the use of the word "Surrender" in each of the last three songs?

Well obviously, it's in the title and chorus of the song "Surrender To Reason", but also in the second verse of "Along For The Ride", and then again later in the fifth movement of "Illumination Theory" in "Surrender, Trust And Passion".

Does this strike anyone else as odd that the three songs that use this word are all back-to-back on the album?

It is with this revelation that I dub these three songs the "Surrender Trilogy" on the album.

-Marc.

[zepp-head]

That and the fact that the CD master really isn't that bad, and it's annoying insinuating people aren't hearing the album correctly because they're not listening to the HD. Now I may be saying that as a guy who got the vinyl, but the Flac/Mp3 download that came with sounds perfectly fine.

I hear ya. Its fine in its standard version. I'm sure its great but if I didn't already like the record it would make much difference to me.

Its like someone saying...."You don't like Pit bull? Listen to it in HD and that will change!"

Ummmm...no.

Exactly.  I'm sure the higher bit rate helps the clarity of what was done overall, and it sounds like there is some different mastering going on as well, but higher fidelity audio does not magically fix a poor mix.  Nor does it make any of the issues I have with the album go away.  Unless the vocal and snare issues were ironed out (and I know they weren't), that would be a waste of money for me.

As an audio guy I'm sure it would be an interesting experience, but I'll hold off for an album I enjoy more.

[The Curious Orange]

As an audio guy, I fail to see why the music industry can't just master CDs properly in the first place. Is it that hard?

[Outcrier]

It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.

Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.

Most songs in this album are pretty simple (structure wise), there is no "too much going on" overall.

[aprilethereal]

Has anyone else noticed the use of the word "Surrender" in each of the last three songs?

Well obviously, it's in the title and chorus of the song "Surrender To Reason", but also in the second verse of "Along For The Ride", and then again later in the fifth movement of "Illumination Theory" in "Surrender, Trust And Passion".

Does this strike anyone else as odd that the three songs that use this word are all back-to-back on the album?

It is with this revelation that I dub these three songs the "Surrender Trilogy" on the album.

-Marc.

Seems like a concept album to me

[Outcrier]

Gotta be cohesive.

[Tick]

It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.

Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.

Most songs in this album are pretty simple (structure wise), there is no "too much going on" overall.

I don't agree at all. Maybe simple in the realm of what Dream Theater does, but their is much going on, out front and subtly that requires multiple listens to fully absorb. One listen simply isn't enough to get it all.

[zepp-head]

As an audio guy, I fail to see why the music industry can't just master CDs properly in the first place. Is it that hard?

Amen.  Though I'm sure if the mastering engineers were able to do it the way they wanted, every professional album would have great mastering rather than competitive mastering.

[Polarbear]

This is such an amazing release by DT.  IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT.  When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release.   What are you looking for?  Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through.  Just interested to hear.

Well i am one of those 19 so i try to break it down to you from my perspective. 
As a DT fan for quite many years now, this is the first record that has been a big disappointment for me. After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was. Well i thought that by listening to it more it would grow on me, and it did though not by much.

IMO DT is at its best when they manage to amaze you with their technical prowess and move you close to tears, all in the same song. ACOS, Scarred and TMOLS for example do that to me.

This new album managed to do neither for me. Why that is?, i don't know. But i am happy that so many of you think this is a masterpiece and the best thing since sliced bread. I wish i could like it as much as most of you, but i don't see it growing to me more than it has already.

With that being said, DT12 still has its moments, though few and far between. And i am really starting to like IT, so i guess that's something. And besides i am always a DT fan despite my disappointment with this one!

I hope they come up with something truly amazing two years from now!

[Kotowboy]

As an audio guy, I fail to see why the music industry can't just master CDs properly in the first place. Is it that hard?

Amen.  Though I'm sure if the mastering engineers were able to do it the way they wanted, every professional album would have great mastering rather than competitive mastering.

It seems like the only people that want it loud is the label - nobody else gives a fuck.  It's absolutely moronic.

[Cygnus17]

VERY strong.  Tremendous album. Right behind Scenes for this fan.

[Tick]

This is such an amazing release by DT.  IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT.  When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release.   What are you looking for?  Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through.  Just interested to hear.

Well i am one of those 19 so i try to break it down to you from my perspective. 

Just in case we missed you ripping apart each song individually in there respective threads?

[Outcrier]

It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.

Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.

Most songs in this album are pretty simple (structure wise), there is no "too much going on" overall.

I don't agree at all. Maybe simple in the realm of what Dream Theater does, but their is much going on, out front and subtly that requires multiple listens to fully absorb. One listen simply isn't enough to get it all.

Compare DT12 to something like this: *SNIP* and maybe you understand 

[Kotowboy]

Keep meaning to post this :

One of my favourite moments from DT12:

The Enemy Inside.... In the syncopated stabs before each verse - the three 16ths and one 8th note x2 then four 16ths they all do....

I like how Mangini plays it on the snare but puts two bass hits between each crotchet.

Now - he does this before every verse.

However - going into the guitar solo - he simply leaves out the bass drums between the crotchets and it gives it an awesome tension going into the solo.

So subtle but definitely makes the guitar solo that much better.

[manticore999]

I'm finding that I really like the first 3 songs and start to lose interest after that.  I think it has to do with knowing too much about their writing process.  I mean, 'let's get together and write and album.  OK, let's jam and then paste the different things together and call it a song.  Cool. Now let's whip together some lyrics real quick - we're running out of studio time!. Great.  Now let's all spend time relearning the songs that weren't songs but rather cobbled together stuff'.  I remember the commentary from SFAM, when Mike said they agonized over 'I wept just like a baby as I lay awake in bed', because babies don't  weep - they cry, they scream, but they don't really weep.  It seemed like they really put a ton of time, thought, agony, feeling, into their lyrics and music.  Ever since then it seems just too mechanized, planned, plotted and project-oriented.  I can't feel 'moved' about something that seems to have so little to it.  Having said that, I don't think it's a horrible album, or anything, but it's just not something that will be high in my rotation.

[ariich]

It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.

Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.

Most songs in this album are pretty simple (structure wise), there is no "too much going on" overall.

I don't agree at all. Maybe simple in the realm of what Dream Theater does, but their is much going on, out front and subtly that requires multiple listens to fully absorb. One listen simply isn't enough to get it all.

Compare DT12 to something like this: *SNIP* and maybe you understand 

Please don't provide links to pirated material, it's against the rules. I'll let you off this time, but be more careful.

[Outcrier]

Sorry, i got carried away 
I was saying that "i got" DT12 very fast while it's much more difficult to memorize everything hearing stuff like Aphex twin or Krautrock even if i hear it multiple times.

[The Curious Orange]

After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was.

I did that with 6DOIT, I was nearly in tears at how bad that was - but it grew on me to become one of my favourites. To be totally frank, DT12 didn't exactly set me on fire on first listen, but this is complex music that confounds expectations, and I didn't expect it to. Actually, I didn't want it to, coz those are the albums I tend to get bored with quickly. Some of the songs are growing on me, others haven't yet, but I'm confident they will in time. Perhaps it will never grow to be a top-tier album, but there's much on there that is improving with each listen, and lots that I'm sure I'll come to love.

[ariich]

Sorry, i got carried away 
I was saying that "i got" DT12 very fast while it's much more difficult to memorize everything hearing stuff like Aphex twin or Krautrock even if i hear it multiple times.

For sure, and I definitely agree that there is music that is much more complex and/or inaccessible than DT's has ever been.

But that said, DT's music is still quite layered, and can be complex, particularly rhythmically. Plus, melodically they mostly don't go for easy hooks and pop sensibilities, although those do slip in a bit of course. But basically, for the vast majority of people, subsequent listens brings new thoughts, feelings and opinions on the music.

Obviously DT aren't alone in that feature, but it is a feature.

[Outcrier]

Subjective too, because it depends on what you already have heard on your life.
Like, imagine someone that only listens to basic songs played on radio (cliche 3 chord songs)... You show  "The Dance Of Eternity" for her, she wouldn't understand at first but me, Outcrier, as a more experienced music listener , i can even sing the whole song in my head now, given so many times i listened to it already.
So, my point is, judging all the music i already have heard in my life until now, there isn't "too much going on" in DT12 because i got all of it pretty fast... There various bits that growed on me and that i appreciate more than in the first listens but that's another thing 

[Cygnus17]

This is such an amazing release by DT.  IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT.  When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release.   What are you looking for?  Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through.  Just interested to hear.

Well i am one of those 19 so i try to break it down to you from my perspective. 
As a DT fan for quite many years now, this is the first record that has been a big disappointment for me. After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was. Well i thought that by listening to it more it would grow on me, and it did though not by much.

IMO DT is at its best when they manage to amaze you with their technical prowess and move you close to tears, all in the same song. ACOS, Scarred and TMOLS for example do that to me.

This new album managed to do neither for me. Why that is?, i don't know. But i am happy that so many of you think this is a masterpiece and the best thing since sliced bread. I wish i could like it as much as most of you, but i don't see it growing to me more than it has already.

With that being said, DT12 still has its moments, though few and far between. And i am really starting to like IT, so i guess that's something. And besides i am always a DT fan despite my disappointment with this one!

I hope they come up with something truly amazing two years from now!

What you say about DT at its best?  That's exactly how I feel about the new album. 

[Outcrier]

DT at is best? Images through SDOIT 
DT12 is good but THAT four albums are in another whole level, it's easy for me to understand why he's so dissapointed... expectations, expectations 

[Tick]

After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was.

I did that with 6DOIT, I was nearly in tears at how bad that was - but it grew on me to become one of my favourites. To be totally frank, DT12 didn't exactly set me on fire on first listen, but this is complex music that confounds expectations, and I didn't expect it to. Actually, I didn't want it to, coz those are the albums I tend to get bored with quickly. Some of the songs are growing on me, others haven't yet, but I'm confident they will in time. Perhaps it will never grow to be a top-tier album, but there's much on there that is improving with each listen, and lots that I'm sure I'll come to love.

Don't feed the bears!

[Polarbear]

After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was.

I did that with 6DOIT, I was nearly in tears at how bad that was - but it grew on me to become one of my favourites. To be totally frank, DT12 didn't exactly set me on fire on first listen, but this is complex music that confounds expectations, and I didn't expect it to. Actually, I didn't want it to, coz those are the albums I tend to get bored with quickly. Some of the songs are growing on me, others haven't yet, but I'm confident they will in time. Perhaps it will never grow to be a top-tier album, but there's much on there that is improving with each listen, and lots that I'm sure I'll come to love.

Yeah, i really dont know how i feel about DT12 one year from now. SC didn't blow me away either once it first arrived, but now its my favorite RR-era album. Maybe this new album needs more spins than usual to sink in.

We'll see!

[tedy]

I really love this album, from the begging to the very end. 
GREAT!

Thanks DT!

[rumborak]

I've probably listened to the album 15 times at this point (stream+CD), but I think yesterday it exited my rotation.