I have to say that the string break in Illumination Theory has to be one of the greatest things DT have ever written. Goddamn is it gorgeous.I really like that part, but I still think it sounds a little weird in the middle of the song. I feel like it would work great as an opening section. That's just a small complaint, I still think its beautiful.
I have to say that the string break in Illumination Theory has to be one of the greatest things DT have ever written. Goddamn is it gorgeous.I really like that part, but I still think it sounds a little weird in the middle of the song. I feel like it would work great as an opening section. That's just a small complaint, I still think its beautiful.
After one listen: Very Strong.
After one listen: Very Strong.
the thing that sticks out the most is that every member shines in this effort.
I think I'm going to let this sink in and wait until the official release before reviewing, but my initial impressions are that this album is DT 2.0. I have never heard DT like THIS. I think this is right after Images for me in terms of greatness, and probably tied with ADToE for second place. I was floored playing through this album straight through.
Illumination Theory is Dream Theater's own personal Close to the Edge. An absolute masterpiece of a prog epic. :metal :hefdaddy
I think Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds are both better and more sonically interesting albums than DT12 at this point.
I'm holding off until I have the album but I am curious. Would you all say The Enemy Inside is one of the weaker tracks? That's the only one I've heard and I couldn't get into it.
I'm holding off until I have the album but I am curious. Would you all say The Enemy Inside is one of the weaker tracks? That's the only one I've heard and I couldn't get into it.
It's totally different than anything else on the album yet it totally fits on the album. Hope that helps. :)
Definitely too early to tell, for me. After three spins I vote "Very strong". When it clicks, I think it can be bumped up to "Instant classic".
Definitely too early to tell, for me. After three spins I vote "Very strong". When it clicks, I think it can be bumped up to "Instant classic".
But.. Then it wouldn't be an instant classic ;)
After one listen I felt "very strong". After 3 listens, I'm leaning more towards "instant classic".
All I can do is vote based on these early impressions though. I think it would be interesting to do this vote in a few months time once the album has settled in.
Yeah, I honestly don't see how it could be worse than freakin When Dream and Day Unite. I mean, no offense, but that album is a textbook example of a crappy debut album by a bunch of teenagers obsessed with Maiden and Queensryche.
Yeah, I honestly don't see how it could be worse than freakin When Dream and Day Unite. I mean, no offense, but that album is a textbook example of a crappy debut album by a bunch of teenagers obsessed with Maiden and Queensryche.
That is actually pretty offensive. WDADU is just dated (sonically) but it is most certainly not what you said. If you don't like i then fine, but it's got some awesome songs on it and some awesome playing.
I have to say that the string break in Illumination Theory has to be one of the greatest things DT have ever written. Goddamn is it gorgeous.I really like that part, but I still think it sounds a little weird in the middle of the song. I feel like it would work great as an opening section. That's just a small complaint, I still think its beautiful.
I agree. I'm really sad that such a fantastic piece of music was put in such an unfitting context. I think it should've been its own track apart from IT (and so should the Easter Egg have been).
I have to say that the string break in Illumination Theory has to be one of the greatest things DT have ever written. Goddamn is it gorgeous.I really like that part, but I still think it sounds a little weird in the middle of the song. I feel like it would work great as an opening section. That's just a small complaint, I still think its beautiful.
I agree. I'm really sad that such a fantastic piece of music was put in such an unfitting context. I think it should've been its own track apart from IT (and so should the Easter Egg have been).
Ok what did i miss what is the easter egg everyone is talking about? besides that this is a instant classic for me
Somewhere between meh and decent. On first listen it was quite disappointing, but it's grown on me a bit. I'd still consider it a lower ranked album along with SC/BCASL/ADTOE, but it has some stellar moments. But I don't see any of the songs ever being top 20s for me, same with ADTOE, and I don't see myself listening to it much.
I have to say that the string break in Illumination Theory has to be one of the greatest things DT have ever written. Goddamn is it gorgeous.I really like that part, but I still think it sounds a little weird in the middle of the song. I feel like it would work great as an opening section. That's just a small complaint, I still think its beautiful.
I agree. I'm really sad that such a fantastic piece of music was put in such an unfitting context. I think it should've been its own track apart from IT (and so should the Easter Egg have been).
Ok what did i miss what is the easter egg everyone is talking about? besides that this is a instant classic for me
After one listen I felt "very strong". After 3 listens, I'm leaning more towards "instant classic".
All I can do is vote based on these early impressions though. I think it would be interesting to do this vote in a few months time once the album has settled in.
^For me those long mellow interludes make me recall some of my favorite all time songs. Gates Of Delerium. Dogs. Awaken.
Interludes that take you someplace else and create a contrast within the song. It's probably a section that many people
will never connect with, but for those of us that do connect...it's pretty magical. Very emotional. 10/10
It's pretty close. The influences are fairly obvious, and the songwriting isn't quite there yet.Yeah, I honestly don't see how it could be worse than freakin When Dream and Day Unite. I mean, no offense, but that album is a textbook example of a crappy debut album by a bunch of teenagers obsessed with Maiden and Queensryche.
That is actually pretty offensive. WDADU is just dated (sonically) but it is most certainly not what you said.
^ People hear what they fear to hear.Basically this. If you're offended by religious lyrics then you're more likely to interpret lyrics that way.
^ People hear what they fear to hear.Basically this. If you're offended by religious lyrics then you're more likely to interpret lyrics that way.
But I haven't been seeing much of it so I don't think it's a very big problem. I think these might be the most consistently good lyrics DT have put out to be honest.
Is anyone else hearing a slight, and I hate to use this term but, 'djenty' influence? I wonder if that time touring with Periphery might have added to that.
They need an external producer NOW.
^ People hear what they fear to hear.Basically this. If you're offended by religious lyrics then you're more likely to interpret lyrics that way.
But I haven't been seeing much of it so I don't think it's a very big problem. I think these might be the most consistently good lyrics DT have put out to be honest.
Is anyone else hearing a slight, and I hate to use this term but, 'djenty' influence? I wonder if that time touring with Periphery might have added to that.
I just went back and forth between two threads; why the hell do you post the EXACT same thing twice? ??? I gave a reply in the other thread, if you're interested. I figure if you really want some discussion going, it's better to confine it to one thread instead of posting the same thing in two different places.
I agree. I'm really sad that such a fantastic piece of music was put in such an unfitting context. I think it should've been its own track apart from IT (and so should the Easter Egg have been).
After just one listen yesterday, I'll say 'Very strong'. After the releases of TEI and AFTR I was slightly worried, but the album pretty much blew all those feelings away instantly. It's far too early to call it an 'instant classic' though, but people apparently tend to like to think in such terms. I always think an album needs the time to grow on you. If it still sounds fresh and good after like, half a year, or even a decade, well, you might call it a 'classic'. But alas, the current line of thinking among humanity as a whole is in terms of 'epic' and 'amazing', but really, look from the outside in for a change - especially all of the 'hardcore' DT fans (who have likely never really delved far deeper into the amazing world of progressive metal music) - and you'll find there's many, many other bands that have released some amazing albums in the past couple of years. Yeah, DT12 left a 'very strong' impression, but I can't say much else just now.
I have a feeling most people will love it, but I'm curious to see what everyone's initial thoughts are on the album. Personally, I'm a bit disappointed, but maybe it just hasn't clicked with me yet. It just seems less memorable and interesting than previous releases. But there's still a long way to go before I'm completely acquainted with the album.
I don't understand everyone's complaint that the lyrics are "preachy"? :huh: I think they're generally just positive and uplifting. I don't think they have to be interpreted as overtly religious at all. In fact I think it's a bit of a stretch to interpret them like that, and I am religious.
Is anyone else hearing a slight, and I hate to use this term but, 'djenty' influence? I wonder if that time touring with Periphery might have added to that.There is some Periphery-sounding parts in the second movement of IT. I like it. Fits the mood of that section perfectly.
False Awakening Suite - A really good opener IMO. This one will work really well to open the concerts, with a cool screenplay.
The Enemy Inside - Since the first listen, I got addicted. Great riffing, great chorus, great song.
The Looking Glass - What a fantastic tune! I loved the atmosphere of this one. And also, I loved the 'Innocence Faded' vibe.
Enigma Machine - Well, I was expecting something different from that song. I was hoping that it was sound more like Ytsejam or even Dance Of Eternity, but it's more riff-driven and heavy...but I still like the song.
The Bigger Picture - With a really strong melody, this song is REALLY catchy. During the first listening, I imagined myself singing this one in a DT concert. IMO this is one of the most beatiful DT songs I've ever heard.
Behind The Veil - Well, I was expecting something differente from that song [2]. But not like I said about EM. I was expecting that this song would be a really straight forward metal track, and it is not. This song has heaviness, soul and is very dynamic. One of my favorite songs of this album.
Surrender To Reason - A classic DT track IMO. I really enjoyed the lyrics of this song...it's really meaningful and deep. And I love when the lyrics of a song makes you dive into the story. I was really looking forward to listen to this one...and I wasn't disappointed.
Along For The Ride - I wasn't expecting a song like that. When the songs starts, I was not the only one who reminded of Beneath The Surface. But this turns out to be a very different track IMO. Mangini really does a great work in this song...and I was really impressed with the bass tone in JR's solo. A beautiful song, that I can see myself singing along in a DT concert too.
Illumination Theory - What can I say about this song??? An amazing epic. I love the FII vibe that surrounds the starting riffs of this song...and I also can hear some Take The Time influence too. As the song flows, I really travel with the lyrics and the melody...it's AWESOME! And I gotta say that James really, really, really shines in IT. The 'stacatto' section that starts right after the orchestra breakdown...is one of the GREATEST things I heard from DT of all time. Really.
To me, this album is a classic. There are no weak songs...but also, all the songs sounds really inspired and strong.
I don't understand everyone's complaint that the lyrics are "preachy"? :huh: I think they're generally just positive and uplifting. I don't think they have to be interpreted as overtly religious at all. In fact I think it's a bit of a stretch to interpret them like that, and I am religious.Anyway they write them in a way that they don't even have to be interpreted as religious.
I have a feeling most people will love it, but I'm curious to see what everyone's initial thoughts are on the album. Personally, I'm a bit disappointed, but maybe it just hasn't clicked with me yet. It just seems less memorable and interesting than previous releases. But there's still a long way to go before I'm completely acquainted with the album.
Disappointed unfortunately. I am glad others like it and I wish I did too. I like what they tried to do. I have been wanted them to go back to the Awake or even Falling to Infinity formula for a while. Catchy quality songs with great instrumental moments rather than the SC way of throwing in a long solo just for the sake of it.
I do like the album but for me it is one of Dream Theater's weakest efforts song wise. (A below average DT album is still great compared to other music out there)
Song impressions
False AS - Reminds me of Overture form Six Degrees. Fine as an intro piece.
The Enemy Inside - The Heavy Track (like The Glass Prison of Six Degrees) or The Root of All Evil from Octavarium. Solid song but far from Dream Theater's best.
The Looking Glass - Up beat and reminds me of Don't Look Past Me from Cleaning out the Closet. It is an OK song that ends abruptly and leaves a weird taste. I actually like Don't Look Past Me better personally.
Enigma Machine - They play their instruments great on the song but it is not very catchy or memorable. I wish they would stop doing instrumentals on albums honestly. They have enough going on in their songs that they don't need to waste the album space unless the instrumental is simply amazing. I will probably end up skipping this one. Sounds like something they would throw in the middle of a song to needlessly stretch it out on something like the SC album. Rather would have had a song here with vocals to make the album feel more complete.
The Bigger Picture - Best song on the album so far for me. Nice melodic song with a lot going on. I actually felt something in this song. I love when JP can convey emotion through his guitar (like the soft section in Lines in the Sand)
Behind the Veil - Something is off for me. I lose interest part way through the song. I think I will like it better with more listens but as of now it is not memorable to me. I feel like I should like it though.
Surrender to Reason - Another one that I think I will like better on repeated listens. Still not clicking with me though. Thought I would like it better after reading some of the comments.
Along for the Ride - 2nd best track on the album but I still like the ADTOEs ballads better. This Is The Life, Far From Heaven, and Beneath The Surface are more heart felt and are more catchy to me.
IT - Think I will like it better after repeated listens but am disappointed. The song feels like different songs spliced together and doesn't flow as well as epics like Octavarium and A Change of Seasons. Something feels off about the flow. I like some of Jame's vocal moments. He did a great job singing on this one....the melody just doesn't click with me though.
Like I said. I hope I like it a lot more after repeated listens but I think it is one of their weakest albums so far.
I realize that there is quality on the album but for me the songs didn't grab me. Most just aren't catchy, memorable, or pleasing to my ears.
Still a huge fan and will buy whatever they put out and I commend them for their attempt. Glad others enjoy it.
As of now after 3 listens I would rank it next to the bottom in album rankings. Hope this changes.
Images
Scenes
Awake
Falling
Six Degrees
Octavarium (had a few clunkers but had catchy and memorable songs on it with some great melodies)
ADTOE
Cleaning out the Closet (I count this as a release because it has great quality stuff on it)
A Change of Seasons (love the song....if it had more songs on it I would rate this EP higher)
Black Clouds
SC
ToT
DT (Self Titled)
WDADU (loved the actual songs but can't get past Charlie's voice)
After the first few listens, I didn't really like The Bigger Picture.
Now I f****** love it.
I think these might be the most consistently good lyrics DT have put out to be honest.You may be right. Hard to say for sure without having the lyrics to read along with, but to the ear there is nothing embarassing, and everything sounds pretty good.
I think these might be the most consistently good lyrics DT have put out to be honest.You may be right. Hard to say for sure without having the lyrics to read along with, but to the ear there is nothing embarassing, and everything sounds pretty good.
Which song has the MIDI thingie that someone transcribed? And where in that song is it?
Which song has the MIDI thingie that someone transcribed? And where in that song is it?
Which song has the MIDI thingie that someone transcribed? And where in that song is it?
False Awaking Suite at 2:05. How on earth could you miss that, Zy? :biggrin:
I definitely could have done without the lame string section in Illumination Theory.:O
I think it's a great album. I've only listened to it twice though, the next time will be when my cd arrives in the mail in a couple of weeks.It seems it is indeed deliberate, Eren Basburg even confirmed that it references the Tchaikovsky.
Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone's posted this yet, but:
They've 'borrowed' (or perhaps 'stolen' is a better word) the main melody line from Tchaikovsky's 1st Piano Concerto in Illumination Theory. I noticed this upon the first hearing. I've made a little comparison thing, which I will link to below, which plays the melody from the piano concerto first, and then plays a sped up version of the melody in Illumination Theory (I sped it up to make the comparison easier).
https://www.sendspace.com/file/miwcpf
What do you guys think? I personally think it's definitely on purpose, and it's kind of cool that they've referenced Tchaikovsky.
Finest album since Train of Thought.
I have a feeling most people will love it, but I'm curious to see what everyone's initial thoughts are on the album. Personally, I'm a bit disappointed, but maybe it just hasn't clicked with me yet. It just seems less memorable and interesting than previous releases. But there's still a long way to go before I'm completely acquainted with the album.
Disappointed unfortunately. I am glad others like it and I wish I did too. I like what they tried to do. I have been wanted them to go back to the Awake or even Falling to Infinity formula for a while. Catchy quality songs with great instrumental moments rather than the SC way of throwing in a long solo just for the sake of it.
I do like the album but for me it is one of Dream Theater's weakest efforts song wise. (A below average DT album is still great compared to other music out there)
Song impressions
False AS - Reminds me of Overture form Six Degrees. Fine as an intro piece.
The Enemy Inside - The Heavy Track (like The Glass Prison of Six Degrees) or The Root of All Evil from Octavarium. Solid song but far from Dream Theater's best.
The Looking Glass - Up beat and reminds me of Don't Look Past Me from Cleaning out the Closet. It is an OK song that ends abruptly and leaves a weird taste. I actually like Don't Look Past Me better personally.
Enigma Machine - They play their instruments great on the song but it is not very catchy or memorable. I wish they would stop doing instrumentals on albums honestly. They have enough going on in their songs that they don't need to waste the album space unless the instrumental is simply amazing. I will probably end up skipping this one. Sounds like something they would throw in the middle of a song to needlessly stretch it out on something like the SC album. Rather would have had a song here with vocals to make the album feel more complete.
The Bigger Picture - Best song on the album so far for me. Nice melodic song with a lot going on. I actually felt something in this song. I love when JP can convey emotion through his guitar (like the soft section in Lines in the Sand)
Behind the Veil - Something is off for me. I lose interest part way through the song. I think I will like it better with more listens but as of now it is not memorable to me. I feel like I should like it though.
Surrender to Reason - Another one that I think I will like better on repeated listens. Still not clicking with me though. Thought I would like it better after reading some of the comments.
Along for the Ride - 2nd best track on the album but I still like the ADTOEs ballads better. This Is The Life, Far From Heaven, and Beneath The Surface are more heart felt and are more catchy to me.
IT - Think I will like it better after repeated listens but am disappointed. The song feels like different songs spliced together and doesn't flow as well as epics like Octavarium and A Change of Seasons. Something feels off about the flow. I like some of Jame's vocal moments. He did a great job singing on this one....the melody just doesn't click with me though.
Like I said. I hope I like it a lot more after repeated listens but I think it is one of their weakest albums so far.
I realize that there is quality on the album but for me the songs didn't grab me. Most just aren't catchy, memorable, or pleasing to my ears.
Still a huge fan and will buy whatever they put out and I commend them for their attempt. Glad others enjoy it.
As of now after 3 listens I would rank it next to the bottom in album rankings. Hope this changes.
Images
Scenes
Awake
Falling
Six Degrees
Octavarium (had a few clunkers but had catchy and memorable songs on it with some great melodies)
ADTOE
Cleaning out the Closet (I count this as a release because it has great quality stuff on it)
A Change of Seasons (love the song....if it had more songs on it I would rate this EP higher)
Black Clouds
SC
ToT
DT (Self Titled)
WDADU (loved the actual songs but can't get past Charlie's voice)
I think it's a great album. I've only listened to it twice though, the next time will be when my cd arrives in the mail in a couple of weeks.
Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone's posted this yet, but:
They've 'borrowed' (or perhaps 'stolen' is a better word) the main melody line from Tchaikovsky's 1st Piano Concerto in Illumination Theory. I noticed this upon the first hearing. I've made a little comparison thing, which I will link to below, which plays the melody from the piano concerto first, and then plays a sped up version of the melody in Illumination Theory (I sped it up to make the comparison easier).
https://www.sendspace.com/file/miwcpf
What do you guys think? I personally think it's definitely on purpose, and it's kind of cool that they've referenced Tchaikovsky.
Illumination Theory - Again, just a long song, not a epic (ACOS and 8varium says hello).
Disjointed mess consisting of "great parts", "filler parts", "LaBrie kicking ass moment", "good but random orchestra section", "nice outro"... so, you get the picture... i enjoy it but it could be better :tup :tdwn :justjen
I think these might be the most consistently good lyrics DT have put out to be honest.You may be right. Hard to say for sure without having the lyrics to read along with, but to the ear there is nothing embarassing, and everything sounds pretty good.
I don't know them yet either....only judging from my single listen.....and agree that the lyrics are very much improved. There seems to have been more thought put into them. But, I don't think any DT album(s) will match (for me) what I&W and AWAKE did lyrically.
I enjoy those type of abstract, detailed but not committed to describing a specific person/place/thing....type lyrics that allow you to craft your own personal story to a song.
DT have had some strong lyrical songs since on various albums but nothing like that two album run IMO. This recent two album stretch of ADTOE and DT is a VAST improvement over SC and BC&SL though.
I think these might be the most consistently good lyrics DT have put out to be honest.You may be right. Hard to say for sure without having the lyrics to read along with, but to the ear there is nothing embarassing, and everything sounds pretty good.
I don't know them yet either....only judging from my single listen.....and agree that the lyrics are very much improved. There seems to have been more thought put into them. But, I don't think any DT album(s) will match (for me) what I&W and AWAKE did lyrically.
I enjoy those type of abstract, detailed but not committed to describing a specific person/place/thing....type lyrics that allow you to craft your own personal story to a song.
DT have had some strong lyrical songs since on various albums but nothing like that two album run IMO. This recent two album stretch of ADTOE and DT is a VAST improvement over SC and BC&SL though.
Agreed, with all of what you said.
Okay but, why is it problematic if they're religious or not. I'm athiest, and I listen to Satanic Black Metal, and even dabble in some of the Christian Metalcore bands. Who cares what they're professing? Why does that effect you? Isn't it possible to just say, "Those are some well written lyrics" and even if you don't agree with the message or don't believe in them, they're still well written.
Okay but, why is it problematic if they're religious or not. I'm athiest, and I listen to Satanic Black Metal, and even dabble in some of the Christian Metalcore bands. Who cares what they're professing? Why does that effect you? Isn't it possible to just say, "Those are some well written lyrics" and even if you don't agree with the message or don't believe in them, they're still well written.
I don't doubt their quality; many religious texts have been written well. Myproblemopinion is that those religious texts are preaching a false and a potentially harmful message.
Okay but, why is it problematic if they're religious or not. I'm athiest, and I listen to Satanic Black Metal, and even dabble in some of the Christian Metalcore bands. Who cares what they're professing? Why does that effect you? Isn't it possible to just say, "Those are some well written lyrics" and even if you don't agree with the message or don't believe in them, they're still well written.Lyrics about faith in a higher power to help you through adversity or show you meaning in life don't appeal to me for two reasons, one because I cannot relate to them at all and get nothing out of it that way, and secondly because I find it extremely boring as a subject of a story, so I am unlikely to enjoy them even if I just think of them as a story rather than trying to relate to myself personally (which is how I mostly enjoy lyrics). Even if it's kept to a level where it's not overtly off-putting by being preachy, it's just a theme I find pretty unmoving.
And whatever you do, DO NOT play any metal albums backward.
Fixed that for you :tup
What could possibly be harmful about sharing a belief that life has meaning and even though it might suck right now, there are answers and hope? And if just hearing a different philosophy on life is dangerous to you and if you are that open to suggestion, I suggest you stay off Call of Duty and whatever you do, DO NOT play any metal albums backward.
Lyrics about faith in a higher power to help you through adversity or show you meaning in life don't appeal to me for two reasons, one because I cannot relate to them at all and get nothing out of it that way, and secondly because I find it extremely boring as a subject of a story, so I am unlikely to enjoy them even if I just think of them as a story rather than trying to relate to myself personally (which is how I mostly enjoy lyrics). Even if it's kept to a level where it's not overtly off-putting by being preachy, it's just a theme I find pretty unmoving.
Okay but, why is it problematic if they're religious or not. I'm athiest, and I listen to Satanic Black Metal, and even dabble in some of the Christian Metalcore bands. Who cares what they're professing? Why does that effect you? Isn't it possible to just say, "Those are some well written lyrics" and even if you don't agree with the message or don't believe in them, they're still well written.Lyrics about faith in a higher power to help you through adversity or show you meaning in life don't appeal to me for two reasons, one because I cannot relate to them at all and get nothing out of it that way, and secondly because I find it extremely boring as a subject of a story, so I am unlikely to enjoy them even if I just think of them as a story rather than trying to relate to myself personally (which is how I mostly enjoy lyrics). Even if it's kept to a level where it's not overtly off-putting by being preachy, it's just a theme I find pretty unmoving.
QuoteFixed that for you :tup
The sentence was better off without your intervention. :P
False Awakening Suite: A short piece that has interesting moments but fails to gain much momentum and suffers from a lack of fluidity. It seems to lack purpose. Score: 2/5Did you get into my head regarding these songs dude.
The Enemy Inside: An exceptional instrumental section and JP/JR solo spot gives existential validity to this otherwise vanilla prog metal tune. Score: 3/5
The Looking Glass: Dream Theater play to their strengths here moreso than anywhere else on the album, infusing old-school progressive metal with their trademark instrumental craftmanship and LaBrie's Arena Rock knack for melody. Score: 5/5
Enigma Machine: It's not as bad as "Raw Dog", but it lacks direction and fails to mesmerize despite showcasing virtuosity. It might be a lot more fun to watch live. Score: 2/5
The Bigger Picture: This dynamic and powerful song spirals out of control after the first chorus, but that instrumental build-up into the finale puts everything back into perspective. Score: 4/5
Illumination Theory: For every fantastic section of this 22 minute song, there is section that feels like a mere formality - including & especially Rush homages. I love the orchestrated section, and the piano/guitar fadeout at the very end. Can we have more of that? Score: 3/5
In sum, things seem looser in DT world this time around. DT12 is a mixed bag. Overall: 6.5/10
Illumination Theory - Again, just a long song, not a epic (ACOS and 8varium says hello).
Disjointed mess consisting of "great parts", "filler parts", "LaBrie kicking ass moment", "good but random orchestra section", "nice outro"... so, you get the picture... i enjoy it but it could be better :tup :tdwn :justjen
Honestly, anyone can say those things about ACOS, 8VM, ITPOE and SDOIT. It's all on preference, at least to "great parts" and "filler parts". Some people find 8VM and ACOS boring in some sections, and find parts in the middle to be filler. I think IT stands up there with TCOT and 8VM, but still below ACOS and SDOIT.
-Marc.
QuoteFixed that for you :tup
The sentence was better off without your intervention. :P
Perhaps to you it was.....but That sentence was stated as 'fact' before my intervention.....it seemed necessary for it to be clarified that your sentence and content within is indeed......an opinion.
I'm not saying they're meaningless, but drawing Factual Ties to lyrics that are open to discrepancy is silly, and it's not like you have to let the lyrics affect you in anyway other than, wowee those were uplifting, or those are depressing.Okay but, why is it problematic if they're religious or not. I'm athiest, and I listen to Satanic Black Metal, and even dabble in some of the Christian Metalcore bands. Who cares what they're professing? Why does that effect you? Isn't it possible to just say, "Those are some well written lyrics" and even if you don't agree with the message or don't believe in them, they're still well written.Lyrics about faith in a higher power to help you through adversity or show you meaning in life don't appeal to me for two reasons, one because I cannot relate to them at all and get nothing out of it that way, and secondly because I find it extremely boring as a subject of a story, so I am unlikely to enjoy them even if I just think of them as a story rather than trying to relate to myself personally (which is how I mostly enjoy lyrics). Even if it's kept to a level where it's not overtly off-putting by being preachy, it's just a theme I find pretty unmoving.
I'm actually going to agree with RRR...but from the opposite side of the coin. I have never understood anyone who says that lyrics to a song are meaningless. I'm not a whack job who believes that songs can "make you do things"....that's stupid. But music AND lyrics are extremely powerful things. Don't believe me? Watch a war vet at a baseball game during the national anthem.
I don't mind hearing other opinions from people. But if they are just on a completely different planet from me (since, DC brought it up, I'll use black metal/Satanism as an example....but it could be ANY message I strongly disagree with....the Westboro Baptists for example) then I am not going to spend any time listening to it. I wouldn't allow someone from the WBC to follow me around my house and preach their message of hate to me all day long....so why would I make an exception or change my mind if they decided to put it to music....even if it was good?
And I defend anyone's right to NOT want to hear someone's lyrical message.
Okay but, why is it problematic if they're religious or not. I'm athiest, and I listen to Satanic Black Metal, and even dabble in some of the Christian Metalcore bands. Who cares what they're professing? Why does that effect you? Isn't it possible to just say, "Those are some well written lyrics" and even if you don't agree with the message or don't believe in them, they're still well written.Lyrics about faith in a higher power to help you through adversity or show you meaning in life don't appeal to me for two reasons, one because I cannot relate to them at all and get nothing out of it that way, and secondly because I find it extremely boring as a subject of a story, so I am unlikely to enjoy them even if I just think of them as a story rather than trying to relate to myself personally (which is how I mostly enjoy lyrics). Even if it's kept to a level where it's not overtly off-putting by being preachy, it's just a theme I find pretty unmoving.
Every song is amazing. That is why Dream Theater is in my opinion their best album, even on top of the once unbeatable Octavarium.
"Illumination T," is a big, fat mess, but an amazing, incredible, impressive big, fat mess.
I also want to note that I feel all the solos are so much less interesting. Nothing new or creative to my ears. I don't remember a single JP solo, and all I remember from JR is the AFtR solo, which isn't anything particularly new.
Seriously though, the longer I play this more I realize I'm not exaggerating at all. This is hands down the most brick walled album I've ever listened to.
And holy shit Mangini! I'm impressed!
Compared to BC&SL or SC this is a nightmare.Seriously though, the longer I play this more I realize I'm not exaggerating at all. This is hands down the most brick walled album I've ever listened to.
This to me is the real shame. The loudness war is actually kinda over, many bands have learned and started again to have their albums breathe. It's a shame DT of all bands continues to release brickwalled albums, especially when ADTOE looked like an improvement.
Seriously though, the longer I play this more I realize I'm not exaggerating at all. This is hands down the most brick walled album I've ever listened to.
I don't know if your stream has gone wrong or something, but this is absolutely nowhere near as bad as Death Magnetic.Compared to BC&SL or SC this is a nightmare.Seriously though, the longer I play this more I realize I'm not exaggerating at all. This is hands down the most brick walled album I've ever listened to.
This to me is the real shame. The loudness war is actually kinda over, many bands have learned and started again to have their albums breathe. It's a shame DT of all bands continues to release brickwalled albums, especially when ADTOE looked like an improvement.
...to remember :3
Seriously though, the longer I play this more I realize I'm not exaggerating at all. This is hands down the most brick walled album I've ever listened to.
Death Magnetic will see you now.
Finest album since Train of Thought.
Finest since Six Degrees for me.
I guess I was spot on with the comparison then.Seriously though, the longer I play this more I realize I'm not exaggerating at all. This is hands down the most brick walled album I've ever listened to.
Death Magnetic will see you now.
[...] it's the same guy who did the Death Magnetic master. [..]
Ted Jensen? Is that actually the case? I thought Rich Chycki did the mastering as well as the mixing?Seriously though, the longer I play this more I realize I'm not exaggerating at all. This is hands down the most brick walled album I've ever listened to.
Death Magnetic will see you now.
Maybe he never heard that album? Dream Theater is certainly the most brick walled and uncomfortable sounding record I have in my collection. No shock though, it's the same guy who did the Death Magnetic master. That guy clearly does not belong in a studio, he just seems to be destroying records completely.
Ted Jensen? Is that actually the case? I thought Rich Chycki did the mastering as well as the mixing?Nope, Ted Jensen did the mastering. Quote from the CD booklet:
I don't know if your stream has gone wrong or something, but this is absolutely nowhere near as bad as Death Magnetic.Compared to BC&SL or SC this is a nightmare.Seriously though, the longer I play this more I realize I'm not exaggerating at all. This is hands down the most brick walled album I've ever listened to.
This to me is the real shame. The loudness war is actually kinda over, many bands have learned and started again to have their albums breathe. It's a shame DT of all bands continues to release brickwalled albums, especially when ADTOE looked like an improvement.
...to remember :3
Yes, it's mastered quite loud, but it really isn't as much so as a lot of other albums out there. For me, it just creeps within the acceptable range, and so it actually ends up working at giving it a big, in-your-face sound.
Ted Jensen? Is that actually the case? I thought Rich Chycki did the mastering as well as the mixing?Seriously though, the longer I play this more I realize I'm not exaggerating at all. This is hands down the most brick walled album I've ever listened to.
Death Magnetic will see you now.
Maybe he never heard that album? Dream Theater is certainly the most brick walled and uncomfortable sounding record I have in my collection. No shock though, it's the same guy who did the Death Magnetic master. That guy clearly does not belong in a studio, he just seems to be destroying records completely.
Can't say 'Instant Classic'. I've only listened to it a few times!
Can't say 'Instant Classic'. I've only listened to it a few times!
Does anyone on this board even know what "instant" means?
Can't say 'Instant Classic'. I've only listened to it a few times!
Does anyone on this board even know what "instant" means?
Can't say 'Instant Classic'. I've only listened to it a few times!
Does anyone on this board even know what "instant" means?
The only track i could honestly say i liked after the first listen was the bigger picture, but even that has begun to sound forgettable. Illumination theory has grown on me a little but it could have been 6 minutes shorter and wouldn't have cared. At least they could have gotten rid of the orchestral section which just undermines the song as a whole. They have had great orchestral sections over the years but this is definitely not on of them.
:rollin
Your three duds are my top 3 from the entire album.
Caved and listened to the stream - once on low volume at work, then on the computer at home. Don't want to listen anymore until I get the CD. Anyway . . . James Labrie, WOW. Some killer stuff from him, much more passionate than ADTOE which I hold in very high regard. Very balanced contributions from all members, and of course JP always brings his A game.
My thoughts on MM have not changed much; I hear a lot of speed and technicality but not near the creativity and catchiness that MP brought to the table. MP has single songs where he has more great drum parts than the entire 18 songs of the MM era so far. Granted this is after only 2 listens, I may change my mind later as I become more familiar.
This is premature, but I'll take a stab now and see how much my opinion changes after a few months. Ranking the MM-era songs:
1. Breaking All Illusions
2. Illumination Theory
3. This is the Life
4. Lost Not Forgotten
5. The Bigger Picture
6. Outcry
7. The Looking Glass
8. On the Backs of Angels
9. Surrender to Reason
10. Bridges in the Sky
11. Behind the Veil
12. Beneath the Surface
13. Along for the Ride
14. Enigma Machine
15. The Enemy Inside
16. False Awakening Suite
17. Build Me Up, Break Me Down
18. Far From Heaven
The drumming solid and I really do like it, though I do miss Portnoy's groovy drumwork. He was getting a bit lazy with them towards the end, though.
The only track i could honestly say i liked after the first listen was the bigger picture, but even that has begun to sound forgettable. Illumination theory has grown on me a little but it could have been 6 minutes shorter and wouldn't have cared. At least they could have gotten rid of the orchestral section which just undermines the song as a whole. They have had great orchestral sections over the years but this is definitely not on of them.
Wow. If you don't like THAT orchestral section, i'm not sure what orchestral section you do like - that piece of music is simply stellar, and in my mind, one of the most moving musical sections they have ever written...
I woudn't say the flow is ruin by any means because the ambient section before works great in bring it all down so for me it works very well. The string section contains melodies from the song itself so it all makes sense to me. It's just a nice little section that works like a hymn in a way and makes me wanna sit back and relax with a glass of wine or a bottle and just appreciate stuff, love it! :hat
The only track i could honestly say i liked after the first listen was the bigger picture, but even that has begun to sound forgettable. Illumination theory has grown on me a little but it could have been 6 minutes shorter and wouldn't have cared. At least they could have gotten rid of the orchestral section which just undermines the song as a whole. They have had great orchestral sections over the years but this is definitely not on of them.
Wow. If you don't like THAT orchestral section, i'm not sure what orchestral section you do like - that piece of music is simply stellar, and in my mind, one of the most moving musical sections they have ever written...
Orchestral stuff in Sdoit and Octavarium (songs) is well thought out and works well within the songs. In the Illumination theory the orchestra just kills the flow of the song in the moment it kicks in.
Its like they said to the guy writing the orchestra- piece that we need an orchestral section and we slap it in the middle of this song, just do something.
The piece itself isn't bad!
Can't say 'Instant Classic'. I've only listened to it a few times!
Does anyone on this board even know what "instant" means?
DT should hire a good producer for the next album, and maybe a new keyboard player.Why should they do either? ???
At this point all I can say is my reaction is a mixture of the last three options... :-X
I'm so predictable... :lol I'll post some kind of little review after I've listened to the album (even) more, but right now I can't see it becoming a favorite of mine.At this point all I can say is my reaction is a mixture of the last three options... :-XWell, that's another confirmation. I was completely sure about you not liking it.
I don't dislike it by any means, I'm just underwhelmed because I still love ADTOE and I thought they had potential to make another amazing album, knowing the circumstances under which it was made and what the band members and people who had heard the album said. DT12 is a mixed bag for me, but I'll tell more later... I mean, :soon:This. I had expected way more. I mean, when ADTOE came out, I wanted to listen to it over and over again reliving the moment, but I don't have that with DT12. Also, very few actually sticks. I now have a hard time to recall how for example TPB or STR sounds even though I've listened to the album 6 times.
TPBThe Pigger Bicture? :neverusethis:
I voted it an "Instant Classic". It's on the same level as Images, Awake, Scenes, and Degrees for me.
Guess my tastes have changed. I honestly can't say there's anything wrong with it.
I just hear the "same old"
oh well.
I listened to the album again and wrote down some thoughts on each song. I need some time to gather enough courage to post them, because I have a feeling my opinion on IT will make me the most hated person on this board.Look, we may heavily disagree, but there's no reason to feel afraid of having your own opinion :) Because at the end of the day, if I enjoy the album and you don't, it doesn't matter and we can just continue on.
I listened to the album again and wrote down some thoughts on each song. I need some time to gather enough courage to post them, because I have a feeling my opinion on IT will make me the most hated person on this board.
Just like you, I hear nothing terribly wrong with the album, but it all feels I've heard it numerous times before. Either from them, or some other band.
After 5-6 listens, I must say I'm disappointed. I quite like FAS and TEI, but I don't like TLG, which is pretty much a Rush song. Enigma Machine is a great instrumental. TPB is decent but it can't really grab my attention. BTV is really pretty good and has some nice riffs. STR starts out really cool but I don't like the chorus. AFTR is a decent ballad, I like Jordan's solo and the buildup. IT is... good, but for some reason I don't find it nearly as interesting as pretty much any other DT epic.
These thoughts might change though, I need some more listens to see if the album might grow on me.
In my opinion this is DT in their finest hour...an epic masterpiece that will be practically impossible to beat. In fact, this album moves me emotionally like no other music has ever done. That is no small accomplishment. It makes me feel bad for those who aren't enjoying it.
Because plenty of people are using Rush similarities as reasons not to like certain songs.
Picked up DT12 and I'ved arrived home and am about to listen to it for the first time!!!! :yarr:metal
In my opinion this is DT in their finest hour...an epic masterpiece that will be practically impossible to beat. In fact, this album moves me emotionally like no other music has ever done. That is no small accomplishment. It makes me feel bad for those who aren't enjoying it.
I did a track by track:
False Awakening Suite: A short piece that has interesting moments but fails to gain much momentum and suffers from a lack of fluidity. It seems to lack purpose. Score: 2/5
The Enemy Inside: An exceptional instrumental section and JP/JR solo spot gives existential validity to this otherwise vanilla prog metal tune. Score: 3/5
The Looking Glass: Dream Theater play to their strengths here moreso than anywhere else on the album, infusing old-school progressive metal with their trademark instrumental craftmanship and LaBrie's Arena Rock knack for melody. Score: 5/5
Enigma Machine: It's not as bad as "Raw Dog", but it lacks direction and fails to mesmerize despite showcasing virtuosity. It might be a lot more fun to watch live. Score: 2/5
The Bigger Picture: This dynamic and powerful song spirals out of control after the first chorus, but that instrumental build-up into the finale puts everything back into perspective. Score: 4/5
Behind the Veil: Parts of good and bad songs are jarbled together without much regard for fluidity. JP's solo almost saves the song, but we've seen that trick too many times before. Despite feeling clunky on the first few listens, the song is a lot better once the listener becomes more familiar with itScore:2/53/5
Surrender to Reason: The Rush influences on this album are starting to feel blatant. Dream Theater are obviously lifelong disciples, but even they should know how to avoid those awful 70's Rush transitions by now. The chorus hook and ending sections are addictive, though. Score:2/53/5
Along for the Ride: A solid effort that sits well beside songs like "Wither" and "This is the Life". Score: 3/5
Illumination Theory: For every fantastic section of this 22 minute song, there is section that feels like a mere formality - including & especially Rush homages. I love the orchestrated section, and the piano/guitar fadeout at the very end. Can we have more of that? Score: 3/5
In sum, things seem looser in DT world this time around. DT12 is a mixed bag that continues to demonstrate that band's excellent musicianship and creativity, but homages to the band's influences are too prominent, and the songcrafting is more concise but nowhere near as seamless as on A Dramatic Turn of Events. Overall:6.57.25/10
Here is my highly subjective view of this album. I'm using the following scale::tup
1: Not good
2: Alright
3: Good
4: Great
5: Amazing
False awakening Suite: It starts off very dramatically and Symphony X-ish, and I can see how it will serve a purpose as a show opener. However, listening to it on the album doesn't do much for me. 2/5
The enemy inside: Standard modern DT rocker with loads of energy and some nice melodies. I like it, but it doesn't bring anything to the table that I haven't heard before. For me, a typically average DT song (which does not mean an average song, since DT is pretty much always a level or two above almost everyone else). 2/5
The looking glass: Here is where the album becomes really interesting for me. A very "Rushy" opening riff, and some nice "synth carpets" as we say in Sweden, to provide a strong atmosphere. The first part of the verse sounds kind of bland, but the transition to the opening riff is great although the following transition to the acoustic part is a bit too sudden for my taste. I love how the chorus builds up though and the "you live without shame..." part is great! The solo section is really cool with some great chord progressions and I LOVE how audible JM is. All in all, a really good song that sets the tone for the rest of the album, but with probably the most unimaginative ending ever. 4/5
The enigma machine: The opening notes really give me that spy theme that the band has mentioned. I picture a dark and rainy night in a big city filled with people in trenchcoats. Could have been a part of the soundtrack to "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy". The short "DT-craziness" section feels a little out of place, but the riff-o-mania that follows is great, and i like the key changes during the solo battle. It's a fun song to listen to, almost like having a drink and a laugh with your buddies, but it doesn't stick out in any way. 3/5
The bigger picture: This is a very interesting song. At first, I found it beautiful but not cohesive. However, this has changed the more I listen to it. Mood-wise, I think it sounds like something from JLB:s solo albums. I love the dark ballady feel of it. The first verse is beautifully sung, and the subtle guitar work in the back (which I just discovered after hearing it multiple times) before the acoustic kicks in is very nice. GREAT chorus. I like that the guitar solo is more of a melody than a solo, and it's very nicely harmonized. Sounds like something from FII. The piano break with the heartbeat is amazing, and the long ending is unexpected but brilliant. 4/5
Behind the veil: Intro is fantastic, and what JR plays from around 00:48 is very moving and epic as well as the bombastic band entrance. I'm really disappointed though that they don't build the song around that part, and it makes the song less enjoyable for me. It feels as if they opened the door to something that could be the best thing they've ever done, but then closed it for something much more average. The climactic ending to the guitar solo and the following chorus almost brings that mood back, but not all the way. 3/5
Surrender to reason: Again, a very Rushy intro, but again, I wished that they would have come back to it more in order for the song to be more cohesive. I think it would almost fit better into TLG. It's not as disappointing as in BTV though, since the rest of the song is very emotional, especially JP's guitar melody. Cool solo. As with TBP, I find it to be a very interesting song that is a bit overwhelming the first couple of times you hear it because of its density. I like how the song ends with the intro. 4/5
Along for the ride: I really loved this song when I first heard it, and that hasn't changed. It's as if TITL and BTS had a child together. The melodies are very strong, and JP's arpeggios are tasty as hell. I usually don't pay that much attention to the lyrics, but this chorus really gets to me. The words, how they are delivered, and what surrounds them makes it one of the best ever from DT. The song itself also sits very well between the incredibly dense song that precedes it and the epic that follows. It gives the album some much needed breathing room, much like FFH on ADTOE. Can't wait to see this live. 4/5
Illumination theory: Now this is what I have been waiting for since Octavarium. I expected something along the lines of maybe ITPOE, but I was not prepared for the riff-factory that this song is. The song feels like an album itself, with the epic intro, groovy riffing, intense verse/chorus section, hypnotizing soundscape/string section, and what comes after that is probably the greatest thing ever recorded by DT. When the final sweep of the guitar fades out, it feels like my mind has left my body. There are so many highlights in this song, but what sticks out the most is the part right after the strings. That swirling sound just tells you that something drastic is about to happen, and then a god-like performance from JLB. I can't listen to it without giggling out of sheer amazement. A great solo section, thanks to the straight feel of it (makes me think of TTT or Home), and then a really epic ending with the climax being JP's solo. The easter egg then tells you "go home, the show is over". 5/5
Conclusion: For me, this is possibly the most interesting album DT has made in a long time, and the transition BC&SL --> ADTOE --> DT12 is really promising for the future of this band. It feels as if they have really focused on the songwriting, and polished what could have been long and stretched out songs (like TCOT or ANTR) into songs in the 6-7 minute range. This makes it harder to take in at first, as there are many things to digest in each song, but I find that these albums are the ones who stand the test of time best. The album sounds very mature, and they have cut down on the more youthful metal/"really complex unisons/harmonies" in favor for melodies and chord progressions, which I personally like much more.
Something else that I have thought about is the timing of the release in relation to the overall feel of the songs. If this album would have been released in the spring, I'm not sure if I would have liked it as much as I do. The songs have a heavy, melancholy feel that really goes hand in hand with the change from summer to fall, when it gets colder and darker outside, the leaves fall from the trees, and life in general feels a little more grey and melancholy. Personally, I love this time of year, as it gives me time for reflection and "soul searching". I love the feeling of sitting inside my warm apartment curled up in the corner of my couch under a blanket with a good book and a cup of tea while it's cold and rainy outside, and this album highlights these emotions perfectly.
All in all, I find the album to be more than the sum of it's parts, and therefore, it gets a 5/5.
Thank you Dream Theater.
I had a thought :
If John Myung writes the lyrics - then who comes up with the vocal melody for that song ? JP or JLB ?
I can't imagine Myung singing the song to the other two.
BTV is played on a 7-string ;)
Now speaking of guitar tunings, is Illumination Theory played on baritone guitar? I swear I heard a low A somewhere...
Now speaking of guitar tunings, is Illumination Theory played on baritone guitar? I swear I heard a low A somewhere...
7 string downtuned. Follow the qr code on the booklet ;)
Just listened to it for the first time, brilliant album, every song pulls its weight and Illumination Theroy is incredible. I am also finally glad to see the band change direction and make something a bit different from albums made up of 10 min songs.
Also I haven't seen many people mention how much better the lyrics are this time around, IMO that has been DT's weak point for years.
After listening to this album 3 times, I am honestly floored, this album is simply insane. I voted instant classic, because this has potential to be top 3 DT, perhaps even higher. I was so disappointed with ADTOE, but DT12 is so much better than it in every single aspect. I actually can't believe how good this is. I'm also pleased with how heavy this is, it has so much balls and the riffs are probably the best the band have ever done.
Behind the Veil is simply one of the greatest songs they have ever done and IT is unbelievable really. DT knocked this out of the fucking park.
Something I forgot to mention in my review: I listened to IT a couple of times after making the post where I said my opinion will make people hate me, and my comment on it is less negative now.:tup
Now speaking of guitar tunings, is Illumination Theory played on baritone guitar? I swear I heard a low A somewhere...
7 string downtuned. Follow the qr code on the booklet ;)
Hello everyone I'm a newcomer here and would like to state my opinion on the new album as well!
First of all, I must admit that I'm only familiar with Images & Words, Scenes from a Memory, the song Six Degrees, some songs of TOT, Octavarium and the three latest records. I really really enjoyed ADTOE and would probably rank it to third place just following the obvious I&W and SFAM. I expected a lot from this record.
After about twelve listens I can say this album is indeed very good. It's not on the same level as ADTOE for me but is still very enjoyable. I'd say this album puts it's trust more on the songwriting, melody and atmosphere than instrumental wankery (for lack of a better word) like some DT albums do.
Some highlights from the album as for now:
- "Circus" part by Jordan in The Enemy Inside
- Looking Glass Petrucci solo and chorus
- Whole atmosphere of The Bigger Picture
- Intro and chorus of Behind The Veil
- Petrucci guitar melody in Surrender To Reason
- Basically all of Illumination Theory until the final part... I expected a climax like Razord's Edge but it's not really working for me
After listening to this album 3 times, I am honestly floored, this album is simply insane. I voted instant classic, because this has potential to be top 3 DT, perhaps even higher. I was so disappointed with ADTOE, but DT12 is so much better than it in every single aspect. I actually can't believe how good this is. I'm also pleased with how heavy this is, it has so much balls and the riffs are probably the best the band have ever done.
Behind the Veil is simply one of the greatest songs they have ever done and IT is unbelievable really. DT knocked this out of the fucking park.
THE JAMMIN DUDE SHOW new episode focusing on the new Dream Theater album is up. So you can hear all my thoughts on the new album.
Hope you all enjoy!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNYH0eBr94U
THE JAMMIN DUDE SHOW new episode focusing on the new Dream Theater album is up. So you can hear all my thoughts on the new album.I've never been so thirsty after seeing you zipp that Black Russian. Had to solve that! :lol
Hope you all enjoy!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNYH0eBr94U
THE JAMMIN DUDE SHOW new episode focusing on the new Dream Theater album is up. So you can hear all my thoughts on the new album.
Hope you all enjoy!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNYH0eBr94U
Thanks JD, enjoyed the show. "Did I tell you that I cried"? ;D
Now speaking of guitar tunings, is Illumination Theory played on baritone guitar? I swear I heard a low A somewhere...
7 string downtuned. Follow the qr code on the booklet ;)
I hate the way the orchestra ruins the flow in many songs (especially in Illumination Theory) and how unmemorable most of the songs are. Orchestras can be so effective and great, but the compositions should sound original and not like something we have heard in movies a million times.
Now speaking of guitar tunings, is Illumination Theory played on baritone guitar? I swear I heard a low A somewhere...
7 string downtuned. Follow the qr code on the booklet ;)
Why my qr-code is taking me only to DT's official merch site?
Now that the album is in hand I was hoping it would grow on me more. The community at large seems to be really digging it and that is great. A lot of positive energy flowing. Sadly I can't share in the enthusiasm. I hate the way the orchestra ruins the flow in many songs (especially in Illumination Theory) and how unmemorable most of the songs are. Orchestras can be so effective and great, but the compositions should sound original and not like something we have heard in movies a million times. I don't even notice Mangini because of the passive drum sound and the album loses backbone as a result. The album begins to sound wimpy and sickly sweet at times. There are flashes of greatness all over the album, but they rarely come together to form a great song, and that kills it for me. TEI, BTV, and the guitar solo on TLG continue to rise above everything else. I have no reason to complain because this band has delivered such great music for me for such a long run, but this album doesn't provoke a desire in me to keep listening.
BTW, the HD tracks sounds amazing!
I feel like this album lacks the nice "fleshing out" of previous DT releases. The compact and concise songs are nice, and they're good as they are, but Surrender To Reason and Behind The Veil both feel like they should be a few minutes longer. This is purely my opinion and thoughts, I like DT for their 10+ minute songs. This is the only DT album besides WDADU to not have a 10-19 minute song.I agree :tup
I feel like this album lacks the nice "fleshing out" of previous DT releases. The compact and concise songs are nice, and they're good as they are, but Surrender To Reason and Behind The Veil both feel like they should be a few minutes longer. This is purely my opinion and thoughts, I like DT for their 10+ minute songs. This is the only DT album besides WDADU to not have a 10-19 minute song.Illumination Theory...
I think it is, at the very least, their strongest album since SDOIT.
I think it is, at the very least, their strongest album since SDOIT.
I think I'll download Audiosurf again just for it.
As far as first impressions go, I'd say this album is perfect. When I say perfect, I mean it's everything I was hoping it would be. Frankly, it's everything I was hoping ADTOE would have been. So it's definitely extremely satisfying and makes me feel more excited about DT's future than I have been in a long time.
OK.I think it is, at the very least, their strongest album since SDOIT.
I dsagree.
I haven't been this enamoured with a new DT album from beginning to end since FII. I'd hate to talk about crowning achivements as I hope they play for another million years but for me, setting aside that some of their music has been a part of my life for 23 years now so nostalgia will obviously be a factor the music is as good as anything they've put out.
I haven't been this enamoured with a new DT album from beginning to end since FII. I'd hate to talk about crowning achivements as I hope they play for another million years but for me, setting aside that some of their music has been a part of my life for 23 years now so nostalgia will obviously be a factor the music is as good as anything they've put out.
This is impossible.
As far as first impressions go, I'd say this album is perfect. When I say perfect, I mean it's everything I was hoping it would be. Frankly, it's everything I was hoping ADTOE would have been. So it's definitely extremely satisfying and makes me feel more excited about DT's future than I have been in a long time.
This!! :tup
I haven't been this enamoured with a new DT album from beginning to end since FII. I'd hate to talk about crowning achivements as I hope they play for another million years but for me, setting aside that some of their music has been a part of my life for 23 years now so nostalgia will obviously be a factor the music is as good as anything they've put out.
This is impossible.
Not if they play live enough times to stay inside JP's time warp.. besides, JMX does not age (or so the legend says), so he will carry on regardless.
When will we have the first chart positionings?Probably at least a week after the album has been released, depending on the country. The Finnish charts will be updated on Sunday and I'll let you know what DT's position is on that day ;) Wait a minute... Someone could make a "DT12 chart positions/sales" thread!
When will we have the first chart positionings?Probably at least a week after the album has been released, depending on the country. The Finnish charts will be updated on Sunday and I'll let you know what DT's position is on that day ;) Wait a minute... Someone could make a "DT12 chart positions/sales" thread!
Has Mike Portnoy told us which album they remade this time yet?
I feel like this album lacks the nice "fleshing out" of previous DT releases. The compact and concise songs are nice, and they're good as they are, but Surrender To Reason and Behind The Veil both feel like they should be a few minutes longer. This is purely my opinion and thoughts, I like DT for their 10+ minute songs. This is the only DT album besides WDADU to not have a 10-19 minute song.Illumination Theory...
I feel like this album lacks the nice "fleshing out" of previous DT releases. The compact and concise songs are nice, and they're good as they are, but Surrender To Reason and Behind The Veil both feel like they should be a few minutes longer. This is purely my opinion and thoughts, I like DT for their 10+ minute songs. This is the only DT album besides WDADU to not have a 10-19 minute song.Illumination Theory...
Illumination Theory is 22 minutes. I said 10-19.
Surrender to Me is my favorite track at the momentBut Forsaken was in Systematic Chaos :neverusethis:
First Impressions
Its heavy. In a harsh, brutal kind of way, and thats not necessarily a bad thing. In places it gets quite dark and gothic, and the album feels like a follow-on from BC&SL and its almost as if ADTOE never happened. Even the more melodic songs are in a full-band, quite heavy arrangement.
The songs (with the exception of Illumination Theory) are relatively conventional, with all of the usual DT trademarks (manic instrumentals, crazy time signature changes) in short supply. Frankly, this could be any other melodic metal band. Most of the instrumentalism is confined to the instrumental Enigma Machine, which occupies the same sort of ground as Stream of Consciousness (and sounds like the theme to 80s kids cartoon Inspector Gadget or is that just me?).
It does what a DT album should it confounds expectations. Theres some brilliant tracks on here, The Bigger Picture stands out as an early favourite, as do The Enemy Inside and Along for the Ride. Other tracks havent clicked yet, but its early days. Its just that on first listen theres nothing here to really get excited about.
And then
Illumination Theory. Possibly the most insane, ridiculous, preposterous, bombastic and over-the-top thing this most insane, ridiculous, preposterous, bombastic and over-the-top of bands have ever done. Everything is here, and the kitchen sink as well. And just when you think it couldnt get any sillier, in comes the orchestra. This is either the sound of a band losing it, or of a band transcending themselves and reaching a higher level of musical genius. Either way, this is glorious.
Once the album finishes, and you go away with that theme still stuck in you head, do you realise. In order for Illumination Theory to work, theyve had to restrain themselves on the other tracks. The reason why they dont let rip earlier is so that it really hits home when they do. Its the albums biggest strength, but also its biggest weakness.
I agree with this... However, I not only dislike this album, I can't even stand to listen to the songs! Really weird for me, I loved (and I mean nonstop love too) everything up to Systematic Chaos. Could barely listen to BCSL, ADToE, and now this. I find this recent album dry, boring, uneventful, and lacks any DT that I loved in previous albums. It doesn't have that adventurous, or emotional journeys that previous albums have taken me on. It really sounds like just any other prog band out there, and I'm really upset to say that. This album is really weak.
But Illumination Theory is the only exception... That is the only song on the album that I can tolerate. I loved Octivarium, so amazing and epic, and this reminds me of it. Not quite as good, but at least there is one song. :/
I was really looking forward to this after being annoyed with ADToE which I forgot after the first listen. Hasn't even come out of the CD case since then, and now they've really lost me. But at least I have the previous works. I am sure this one will go back in the case and be forgotten with BCSL too. I want to cry and explode!First Impressions
Its heavy. In a harsh, brutal kind of way, and thats not necessarily a bad thing. In places it gets quite dark and gothic, and the album feels like a follow-on from BC&SL and its almost as if ADTOE never happened. Even the more melodic songs are in a full-band, quite heavy arrangement.
The songs (with the exception of Illumination Theory) are relatively conventional, with all of the usual DT trademarks (manic instrumentals, crazy time signature changes) in short supply. Frankly, this could be any other melodic metal band. Most of the instrumentalism is confined to the instrumental Enigma Machine, which occupies the same sort of ground as Stream of Consciousness (and sounds like the theme to 80s kids cartoon Inspector Gadget or is that just me?).
It does what a DT album should it confounds expectations. Theres some brilliant tracks on here, The Bigger Picture stands out as an early favourite, as do The Enemy Inside and Along for the Ride. Other tracks havent clicked yet, but its early days. Its just that on first listen theres nothing here to really get excited about.
And then
Illumination Theory. Possibly the most insane, ridiculous, preposterous, bombastic and over-the-top thing this most insane, ridiculous, preposterous, bombastic and over-the-top of bands have ever done. Everything is here, and the kitchen sink as well. And just when you think it couldnt get any sillier, in comes the orchestra. This is either the sound of a band losing it, or of a band transcending themselves and reaching a higher level of musical genius. Either way, this is glorious.
Once the album finishes, and you go away with that theme still stuck in you head, do you realise. In order for Illumination Theory to work, theyve had to restrain themselves on the other tracks. The reason why they dont let rip earlier is so that it really hits home when they do. Its the albums biggest strength, but also its biggest weakness.
I agree with this... However, I not only dislike this album, I can't even stand to listen to the songs! Really weird for me, I loved (and I mean nonstop love too) everything up to Systematic Chaos. Could barely listen to BCSL, ADToE, and now this. I find this recent album dry, boring, uneventful, and lacks any DT that I loved in previous albums. It doesn't have that adventurous, or emotional journeys that previous albums have taken me on. It really sounds like just any other prog band out there, and I'm really upset to say that. This album is really weak.
But Illumination Theory is the only exception... That is the only song on the album that I can tolerate. I loved Octivarium, so amazing and epic, and this reminds me of it. Not quite as good, but at least there is one song. :/
I was really looking forward to this after being annoyed with ADToE which I forgot after the first listen. Hasn't even come out of the CD case since then, and now they've really lost me. But at least I have the previous works. I am sure this one will go back in the case and be forgotten with BCSL too. I want to cry and explode!First Impressions
Its heavy. In a harsh, brutal kind of way, and thats not necessarily a bad thing. In places it gets quite dark and gothic, and the album feels like a follow-on from BC&SL and its almost as if ADTOE never happened. Even the more melodic songs are in a full-band, quite heavy arrangement.
The songs (with the exception of Illumination Theory) are relatively conventional, with all of the usual DT trademarks (manic instrumentals, crazy time signature changes) in short supply. Frankly, this could be any other melodic metal band. Most of the instrumentalism is confined to the instrumental Enigma Machine, which occupies the same sort of ground as Stream of Consciousness (and sounds like the theme to 80s kids cartoon Inspector Gadget or is that just me?).
It does what a DT album should it confounds expectations. Theres some brilliant tracks on here, The Bigger Picture stands out as an early favourite, as do The Enemy Inside and Along for the Ride. Other tracks havent clicked yet, but its early days. Its just that on first listen theres nothing here to really get excited about.
And then
Illumination Theory. Possibly the most insane, ridiculous, preposterous, bombastic and over-the-top thing this most insane, ridiculous, preposterous, bombastic and over-the-top of bands have ever done. Everything is here, and the kitchen sink as well. And just when you think it couldnt get any sillier, in comes the orchestra. This is either the sound of a band losing it, or of a band transcending themselves and reaching a higher level of musical genius. Either way, this is glorious.
Once the album finishes, and you go away with that theme still stuck in you head, do you realise. In order for Illumination Theory to work, theyve had to restrain themselves on the other tracks. The reason why they dont let rip earlier is so that it really hits home when they do. Its the albums biggest strength, but also its biggest weakness.
I have to wonder if your musical tastes have changed so much through the years that DT just isn't your thing anymore. It's ok if that's the case. It happens.
I wish that was the case, but I still have Train of Thought in my CD player, every day drive to and from work (1 hour drives), Endless Sacrifice one of my favorites. Sometimes I put in Octavarium, or Images and play Surrounded over and over. :) "He throws the shutters out against the wall!" ugh, that whole opening sequence is amazing... so epic! I also play Ministry of Lost Souls constantly. Grrrrrrrr! For a long time DT was the only band I listened to, and I'm not kidding (although I have enjoyed their other works and experiments from each member).I'm not saying that you're wrong, but that is different. An album that you are very familiar with and have known for years and that you always loved, you will probably still love.
A couple of other observations (besides how good the album is):
1. I think this may be the best collection of lyrics for DT. All of lyrics are about mature topics (unlike SC for example) and there are no bothersome moments (like Count of Tuscany). TBP and IT have some of the best lyrical moments DT has ever written.
2. This is the best JLB has sounded in decades. The band gave to him some of the strongest melodies they've ever written. His voice fits every one of these songs. Even on the heavier side of the album on Behind the Veil, JLB sounds perfectly suitable. His vocal on the first verse-- an extremely important part of this song-- is exactly what he should have done. Stylistically he sounds on point. The irony in this is that both he and the song sound "heavier" in this moment, than in all those prior DT songs in which the band tried to force it through other effects and/or backup singing-- see TDEN and ANTR. I feel similarly about his vocal entrance in IT. I have been relieved to feel that the heavier moments of DT no longer feel awkward to me and I attribute that to better lyrics, and a smarter use of JLB's abilities and sound.
3. I assume this is pretty clear, but this two album stretch is totally different drumming from anything we've previously experienced in DT. In my opinion, it's also some of the most musical. People tend to focus only on MM's technical ability, which is obviously at a world-class level. But he also possesses outstanding musicianship and knows where and when to use those chops-- An example is two songs that command a totally different feels such as TBP vs. EM. You could also look at the different parts of IT and hear the same thing. The last part of the song was clearly written for the vocalist to shine. In this part, MM (as well as the other instruments) keeps it very straightforward. It makes the vocalist and the song sound better as opposed to taking a million fills before it's the right time. MM just "gets it." I think one of the reasons why DT12 has elevated the band to a new height as songwriters is because of this addition to the rhythm section of the band. DT has simply never before had this level of drumming.
A lot of things I did not like about albums such as SC-- poor musical choices in the vocal department that actually hurt rather than helped the song (TDEN), silly lyrics, etc-- were not an issue on DT12. The band has shown that they have grown significantly as musicians and songwriters since then, and have put out a far more mature and complete album. There is not one song I dislike here. Where other albums had 3 or 4 songs I hated, this song's worst track, AFTR, is still listenable. The other thing I loved was that, as different as this album is, there was never a moment when I forgot what band I was listening to. In the past, the band had these outlier songs that completely deviated from the DT core sound in favor of a different band's core sound. I allude to The Answer Lies Within, I Walk Beside You, Prophets of War, BMUBMD, which I believe were utter failures. On DT12, however, even the hat tips to other bands felt totally comfortable and unforced. For example, even though TLG is undeniably a Rush influenced song, there was always something in there that made it a DT songwhether it be the drumming, the clean guitar part just before the chorus, the JP solo, etc. Furthermore that Rush influence has always been at the core of the band and very well blended into its signature sound. I never felt this song is not DT. This album does not sound like any of the previous albums to me, but it contains all of the DT signature elements that I've loved from the beginning, perfectly blended into a superior collection of songs.
If I had to say one thing I didn't like, it would be the that some of the songs feel as if they are cut short for the sake of curbing the song length. ATFR, TLG and TBP come to mind. It's pretty minor I suppose, but I did feel that these songs could have used even an extra :15 minutes to breathe.
For the band to put out these past 2 albums 25 years into their careers is incredible. A lot of bands start to lose motivation or stop growing as writers and musicians, or take a totally different turn only to try to return to their sound later and realize the magic is gone. After Black Clouds came out, I thought that DT was probably not going to be a band I listened to much anymore; the past 3 albums had been duds. But this really feels like the new beginning for the band that they've been talking about in their promos. I can't wait for the new tour.
But not well mixed!!
Sorry ?? :biggrin:
My feeling about the album is this: The biggest criticisms of Dream Theater toward the end of the Portnoy era were (fair or unfair) that the songs had too much "wanking", the lyrics were "silly", and there was too much being "ripped off" from other artists.
In my opinion, DT12 has no wanking and no silly lyrics (although it does wear its influences more proudly than ever). If you still don't like the album, it might just be that, at a high level, you simply don't like Dream Theater's style of music anymore.
My feeling about the album is this: The biggest criticisms of Dream Theater toward the end of the Portnoy era were (fair or unfair) that the songs had too much "wanking", the lyrics were "silly", and there was too much being "ripped off" from other artists.
In my opinion, DT12 has no wanking and no silly lyrics (although it does wear its influences more proudly than ever). If you still don't like the album, it might just be that, at a high level, you simply don't like Dream Theater's style of music anymore.
But enjoyment of music is not just a checklist of do's and dont's. It is possible to just dislike the music without disliking the genre/style.
Please Jesus. Never let Dream Theater " Do a Kid A " .
What if someone thinks ADTOE was amazing, but finds DT12 average? IMO ADTOE is a brilliant album, because it represents the classic DT sound yet includes interesting elements like the electronic bits in BMUBMD and Outcry and the shaman intro in BITS, and it was the first album since TOT with songs that don't feature the full band. For me DT12 is a standard DT album - not bad, but doesn't feel fresh and exciting either.I partly agree with you, but while I *like* DT12, I don't like it as much as any other DT album. I really liked ADTOE, but I just can't connect with this album, sadly :(
Please Jesus. Never let Dream Theater " Do a Kid A " .
Please Jesus. Never let Dream Theater " Do a Kid A " .
My feeling about the album is this: The biggest criticisms of Dream Theater toward the end of the Portnoy era were (fair or unfair) that the songs had too much "wanking", the lyrics were "silly", and there was too much being "ripped off" from other artists.
In my opinion, DT12 has no wanking and no silly lyrics (although it does wear its influences more proudly than ever). If you still don't like the album, it might just be that, at a high level, you simply don't like Dream Theater's style of music anymore.
But enjoyment of music is not just a checklist of do's and dont's. It is possible to just dislike the music without disliking the genre/style.
Is it though? I don't know... This album is not a radical departure for the band. It's not like a Heritage or a Kid A. It's basically the core Dream Theater sound to a tee, just really concise. If you ("you" being a person in general) think that DT12 is a two star album, their music probably isn't going to get that much better for you from here on out. I could be wrong, but that's the feeling I get.
I would like to change my vote from "Very strong" to "Instant Classic". Because I just can't find anything I don't like about this album...Seriously, what else could you ask from DT? (rhetorical)
Just something that made me shake my head.
I was giving a friend a ride home tonight and she told me that TEI reminded her of OTBOA :facepalm:
I can't even.... HOW?? ???
2:15 in TEI reminds me of 3:00 in OTBOA and I think the solos are slightly similar. However, OTBOA is a much better song IMO :P
And in SFAM, Regression, i don't like Labrie's reading of "take a deep breaths" instead of "take a deep breath"
I'll take TEI anyday. OTBOA is so devoid of energy and life. TEI isn't perfect, but it's exactly the kind of straight ahead metal song I like from DT.
I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan. He does what he needs to do, no more.
I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan. He does what he needs to do, no more.
2:15 in TEI reminds me of 3:00 in OTBOA and I think the solos are slightly similar. However, OTBOA is a much better song IMO :P
I agree with this... However, I not only dislike this album, I can't even stand to listen to the songs! Really weird for me, I loved (and I mean nonstop love too) everything up to Systematic Chaos. Could barely listen to BCSL, ADToE, and now this. I find this recent album dry, boring, uneventful, and lacks any DT that I loved in previous albums. It doesn't have that adventurous, or emotional journeys that previous albums have taken me on. It really sounds like just any other prog band out there, and I'm really upset to say that. This album is really weak.
But Illumination Theory is the only exception... That is the only song on the album that I can tolerate. I loved Octivarium, so amazing and epic, and this reminds me of it. Not quite as good, but at least there is one song. :/
I was really looking forward to this after being annoyed with ADToE which I forgot after the first listen. Hasn't even come out of the CD case since then, and now they've really lost me. But at least I have the previous works. I am sure this one will go back in the case and be forgotten with BCSL too. I want to cry and explode!
How many of you got a signed copy? I got a signed deluxe edition :)
literally first post in years (please forgive me!) but here are my thoughts on the new album:
I LOVE The Looking Glass and Behind the Veil. Its nice to hear them do something that harks back to early DT like the intro to TLG, and I love the chorus to BTV. I don't care much for the heavy bits of the closer, but on the whole a strong album. Shame the production is so odd, can't put my finger on what it is I dislike but there's something off about it...
Actually, I think this cinematic type of album would have been impossible without him.
Yeah, JR is all over the album. he sounds great (when you can hear him :neverusethis:)
Yeah, JR is all over the album. And he sounds great (when you can hear him :neverusethis:)Agreed, I love his contributions which are everywhere, and one of the reasons I prefer the HD tracks is that he can be heard more easily.
I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan. He does what he needs to do, no more.
It sounds beyond bad.
For me what makes recent albums weaker is the relative lack of Jordan. It's no coincidence that the first two albums with JR are by far the best to me, because they had the strongest dose of JR on them. And many of the best parts of DT12 for me are again JR's contributions.
I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan. He does what he needs to do, no more.
It sounds beyond bad.
For me what makes recent albums weaker is the relative lack of Jordan. It's no coincidence that the first two albums with JR are by far the best to me, because they had the strongest dose of JR on them. And many of the best parts of DT12 for me are again JR's contributions.
Yeah, but nowadays, more Jordan means more wankery saddly.
I Sadly agree. Blind Faith is in my opinion one of the more Jordan-ful DT songs out there and it's not full of blatant wankery... And it's my favorite song of the First disc of SDoIT.I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan. He does what he needs to do, no more.
It sounds beyond bad.
For me what makes recent albums weaker is the relative lack of Jordan. It's no coincidence that the first two albums with JR are by far the best to me, because they had the strongest dose of JR on them. And many of the best parts of DT12 for me are again JR's contributions.
Yeah, but nowadays, more Jordan means more wankery saddly.
I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan. He does what he needs to do, no more.
It sounds beyond bad.
For me what makes recent albums weaker is the relative lack of Jordan. It's no coincidence that the first two albums with JR are by far the best to me, because they had the strongest dose of JR on them. And many of the best parts of DT12 for me are again JR's contributions.
Yeah, but nowadays, more Jordan means more wankery saddly.
AROP and TSF solo agree with you :tup
But i'm talking more about SC through BL&SC.
Yeah BCSL and DT12 seem to be the worst offenders in terms of JR being mixed a little on the low side. I don't think it's too bad though.AROP and TSF solo agree with you :tup
But i'm talking more about SC through BL&SC.
Again, plenty of examples. Solos don't account for that much of a song really, and aside from that he adds so much to the atmosphere of the music that apparently goes ignored by some people.
it also doesn't help that he often gets mixed so low. There's so much going on throughout BCASL that's hard to appreciate without the stems. :tdwn
Yeah BCSL and DT12 seem to be the worst offenders in terms of JR being mixed a little on the low side. I don't think it's too bad though.AROP and TSF solo agree with you :tup
But i'm talking more about SC through BL&SC.
Again, plenty of examples. Solos don't account for that much of a song really, and aside from that he adds so much to the atmosphere of the music that apparently goes ignored by some people.
it also doesn't help that he often gets mixed so low. There's so much going on throughout BCASL that's hard to appreciate without the stems. :tdwn
I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan. He does what he needs to do, no more.
It sounds beyond bad.
For me what makes recent albums weaker is the relative lack of Jordan. It's no coincidence that the first two albums with JR are by far the best to me, because they had the strongest dose of JR on them. And many of the best parts of DT12 for me are again JR's contributions.
Am I crazy for thinking of Danny Elfman/Tim Burton every time I hear the opening track of the record?I thought exactly the same when I heard it
:tupAm I crazy for thinking of Danny Elfman/Tim Burton every time I hear the opening track of the record?I thought exactly the same when I heard it
If you play the album once and say "meh" and never listen again, why are you even listening to Progressive Rock/Metal? :facepalm:
Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.If you play the album once and say "meh" and never listen again, why are you even listening to Progressive Rock/Metal? :facepalm:
It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.
Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.If you play the album once and say "meh" and never listen again, why are you even listening to Progressive Rock/Metal? :facepalm:
It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.
Yes. You can't have conclusive proof that you know how you would feel after 10 listens if you only listened once. You know what I mean?Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.If you play the album once and say "meh" and never listen again, why are you even listening to Progressive Rock/Metal? :facepalm:
It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.
So, you are saying the experiences I've had are wrong even though I have conclusive proof that for me that's how it's been?
Perhaps not but but since my track record of 30+ years of actively listening to music has yielded the same result every time basically I'm pretty certain about how anything new I listen to will affect me.So in 30 years you never heard something the first time you didn't care for that you wound up liking? If so that is truly amazing.
Look I am not saying that my thoughts about a piece of music won't change over time but the basic impression of if I like it or not is definitely apparent from first listen. For me.
BTV is played on a 7-string ;)After relistening to the song I realized it's not played on a 7-string - stupid me! :lolpalm: I got it mixed up with TBP and maybe that shows how much I care about this album... :blush
Nope, never. I've had stuff that I liked a bit that I grew to love but never something I outright disliked end up being something I liked. And that went for everything rock/metal/pop as well as classical music.
Look at this. Stare at it. Feast your eyes.
https://dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46884
Nope, never. I've had stuff that I liked a bit that I grew to love but never something I outright disliked end up being something I liked. And that went for everything rock/metal/pop as well as classical music.Well, your experience is your experience. But I have never met anyone else like that, and apparently neither has anyone else here, so you'll understand our point of view.
I absolutely *hated* Mansun's second album "SIX" when it came out but it ended up one of my all time favourite albums.Well, efx would have continued to hate it! Guaranteed.
Nope, never. I've had stuff that I liked a bit that I grew to love but never something I outright disliked end up being something I liked. And that went for everything rock/metal/pop as well as classical music.Well, your experience is your experience. But I have never met anyone else like that, and apparently neither has anyone else here, so you'll understand our point of view.
I've found that this album is much more fun to listen to if you crank up the volume, let loose and get really involved while listening. Pretend to be the conductor of False Awakening Suite, play air drum/guitar/bass/keys (simultaneously, of course), and sing/lip sync along with James.
I love this album! :D
Actually, I'll second that. If I don't like something on first listen I've never wound up liking it. Of course, in some cases I never listen to something I don't like more than once, anyway. I mean, if you hate sushi are you going to keep eating it thinking you'll eventually like it? Seems weird to me.
I'm getting more comfortable saying it's their best since Awake. But not by a huge margin. 6DOIT is good too.
It's their happiest-sounding album since SFAM. Which I think is a good thing. Lots of major scale usage, andvery littleno growling.
Look at this. Stare at it. Feast your eyes.Holy shit the vinyl has a separate master? Brb amazon.com
https://dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46884
Look at this. Stare at it. Feast your eyes.
https://dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46884
Just finished my first listen. My initial reaction? I'm not sure I get it.I do and agree with almost everything you said. The only difference is that I have listened to the album several times and that I enjoyed ADTOE.
When I listen to a DT album, I expect to go a journey. I was expecting this album to be the definitive DT experience, what with it being self-titled, the band themselves hyping it up so much and all the positive comments I've been observing here.
I don't really feel like this album took me on a journey. It just felt like... a bunch of songs.
Even the "epic" Illumination Theory was disappointing to me. It felt disjointed and underwhelming.
Weirdly, the "Easter Egg" at the end of the album was one of the bits I enjoyed the most. It's almost like I felt that that's more of what the album needed as a whole... more "chill" moments to balance out the intensity.
I don't know... it just seems to me that DT may be trying too hard nowadays. Like ever since MP left, they've had something to prove. This album felt too much like a continuation of what they were trying to do on ADToE.
When I first discovered this band, I immediately fell in love with their sound and every thing they wrote and produced just intrigued and drew me in. On this album and ADToE, it just felt like they were trying to impress me by being overly technical, complex and powerful, to convince me that they've still "got it".
Obviously, I don't know what their true intentions or motivations are when it comes to creating music. But the one thing that I've always loved about this band is their musical integrity, the pure and unrelenting desire to make the music that they want to make, paying no need to popularity or external pressure. I very much hope that deep down, this is still the case - as opposed to making music for the sake of satisfying and maintaining their fan base.
I voted "meh" because that pretty much sums up how I feel after my first listen. There were definitely moments that made me smile and I'm sure like any other album, it will time to take some time to fully digest and I'll probably appreciate it more then.
I was just curious to see if anyone else feels this way.
^^ Buy the HD tracks version of the album. It makes it a whole nother monster. You will actually be able to get into it and remember what you are hearing better. It's a world better.
That and the fact that the CD master really isn't that bad, and it's annoying insinuating people aren't hearing the album correctly because they're not listening to the HD. Now I may be saying that as a guy who got the vinyl, but the Flac/Mp3 download that came with sounds perfectly fine.I hear ya. Its fine in its standard version. I'm sure its great but if I didn't already like the record it would make much difference to me.
That and the fact that the CD master really isn't that bad, and it's annoying insinuating people aren't hearing the album correctly because they're not listening to the HD. Now I may be saying that as a guy who got the vinyl, but the Flac/Mp3 download that came with sounds perfectly fine.
That and the fact that the CD master really isn't that bad, and it's annoying insinuating people aren't hearing the album correctly because they're not listening to the HD. Now I may be saying that as a guy who got the vinyl, but the Flac/Mp3 download that came with sounds perfectly fine.I hear ya. Its fine in its standard version. I'm sure its great but if I didn't already like the record it would make much difference to me.
Its like someone saying...."You don't like Pit bull? Listen to it in HD and that will change!"
Ummmm...no.
It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.
Has anyone else noticed the use of the word "Surrender" in each of the last three songs?
Well obviously, it's in the title and chorus of the song "Surrender To Reason", but also in the second verse of "Along For The Ride", and then again later in the fifth movement of "Illumination Theory" in "Surrender, Trust And Passion".
Does this strike anyone else as odd that the three songs that use this word are all back-to-back on the album?
It is with this revelation that I dub these three songs the "Surrender Trilogy" on the album.
-Marc.
I don't agree at all. Maybe simple in the realm of what Dream Theater does, but their is much going on, out front and subtly that requires multiple listens to fully absorb. One listen simply isn't enough to get it all.It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.
Most songs in this album are pretty simple (structure wise), there is no "too much going on" overall.
As an audio guy, I fail to see why the music industry can't just master CDs properly in the first place. Is it that hard?
This is such an amazing release by DT. IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT. When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release. What are you looking for? Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through. Just interested to hear.
As an audio guy, I fail to see why the music industry can't just master CDs properly in the first place. Is it that hard?
Amen. Though I'm sure if the mastering engineers were able to do it the way they wanted, every professional album would have great mastering rather than competitive mastering.
Just in case we missed you ripping apart each song individually in there respective threads? :lolThis is such an amazing release by DT. IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT. When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release. What are you looking for? Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through. Just interested to hear.
Well i am one of those 19 so i try to break it down to you from my perspective. :biggrin:
I don't agree at all. Maybe simple in the realm of what Dream Theater does, but their is much going on, out front and subtly that requires multiple listens to fully absorb. One listen simply isn't enough to get it all.It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.
Most songs in this album are pretty simple (structure wise), there is no "too much going on" overall.
Please don't provide links to pirated material, it's against the rules. I'll let you off this time, but be more careful.I don't agree at all. Maybe simple in the realm of what Dream Theater does, but their is much going on, out front and subtly that requires multiple listens to fully absorb. One listen simply isn't enough to get it all.It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.
Most songs in this album are pretty simple (structure wise), there is no "too much going on" overall.
Compare DT12 to something like this: *SNIP* and maybe you understand :biggrin:
After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was.
Sorry, i got carried away :xbonesFor sure, and I definitely agree that there is music that is much more complex and/or inaccessible than DT's has ever been.
I was saying that "i got" DT12 very fast while it's much more difficult to memorize everything hearing stuff like Aphex twin or Krautrock even if i hear it multiple times.
This is such an amazing release by DT. IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT. When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release. What are you looking for? Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through. Just interested to hear.
Well i am one of those 19 so i try to break it down to you from my perspective. :biggrin:
As a DT fan for quite many years now, this is the first record that has been a big disappointment for me. After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was. Well i thought that by listening to it more it would grow on me, and it did though not by much.
IMO DT is at its best when they manage to amaze you with their technical prowess and move you close to tears, all in the same song. ACOS, Scarred and TMOLS for example do that to me.
This new album managed to do neither for me. Why that is?, i don't know. But i am happy that so many of you think this is a masterpiece and the best thing since sliced bread. :biggrin: I wish i could like it as much as most of you, but i don't see it growing to me more than it has already.
With that being said, DT12 still has its moments, though few and far between. And i am really starting to like IT, so i guess that's something. :laugh: And besides i am always a DT fan despite my disappointment with this one!
I hope they come up with something truly amazing two years from now!
Don't feed the bears!After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was.
I did that with 6DOIT, I was nearly in tears at how bad that was - but it grew on me to become one of my favourites. To be totally frank, DT12 didn't exactly set me on fire on first listen, but this is complex music that confounds expectations, and I didn't expect it to. Actually, I didn't want it to, coz those are the albums I tend to get bored with quickly. Some of the songs are growing on me, others haven't yet, but I'm confident they will in time. Perhaps it will never grow to be a top-tier album, but there's much on there that is improving with each listen, and lots that I'm sure I'll come to love.
After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was.
I did that with 6DOIT, I was nearly in tears at how bad that was - but it grew on me to become one of my favourites. To be totally frank, DT12 didn't exactly set me on fire on first listen, but this is complex music that confounds expectations, and I didn't expect it to. Actually, I didn't want it to, coz those are the albums I tend to get bored with quickly. Some of the songs are growing on me, others haven't yet, but I'm confident they will in time. Perhaps it will never grow to be a top-tier album, but there's much on there that is improving with each listen, and lots that I'm sure I'll come to love.
I haven't listened to it for a few days. I spun it so much last week I need a short break from the album. I don't wanna "burn out" on it.This. I had to stop listening today after 7 consecutive days.
This is such an amazing release by DT. IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT. When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release. What are you looking for? Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through. Just interested to hear.
Well i am one of those 19 so i try to break it down to you from my perspective. :biggrin:
As a DT fan for quite many years now, this is the first record that has been a big disappointment for me. After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was. Well i thought that by listening to it more it would grow on me, and it did though not by much.
IMO DT is at its best when they manage to amaze you with their technical prowess and move you close to tears, all in the same song. ACOS, Scarred and TMOLS for example do that to me.
This new album managed to do neither for me. Why that is?, i don't know. But i am happy that so many of you think this is a masterpiece and the best thing since sliced bread. :biggrin: I wish i could like it as much as most of you, but i don't see it growing to me more than it has already.
With that being said, DT12 still has its moments, though few and far between. And i am really starting to like IT, so i guess that's something. :laugh: And besides i am always a DT fan despite my disappointment with this one!
I hope they come up with something truly amazing two years from now!
Seems like Rush is the only prog band that exists :justjen :justjen :justjen :justjen :justjen
Understood. But that's one of the things DT fans like. They are popular for a reason. Many bands do different things. DT shows off and they know the DT base expects it, and wants it. It makes live shows very entertaining.This is such an amazing release by DT. IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT. When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release. What are you looking for? Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through. Just interested to hear.
Well i am one of those 19 so i try to break it down to you from my perspective. :biggrin:
As a DT fan for quite many years now, this is the first record that has been a big disappointment for me. After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was. Well i thought that by listening to it more it would grow on me, and it did though not by much.
IMO DT is at its best when they manage to amaze you with their technical prowess and move you close to tears, all in the same song. ACOS, Scarred and TMOLS for example do that to me.
This new album managed to do neither for me. Why that is?, i don't know. But i am happy that so many of you think this is a masterpiece and the best thing since sliced bread. :biggrin: I wish i could like it as much as most of you, but i don't see it growing to me more than it has already.
With that being said, DT12 still has its moments, though few and far between. And i am really starting to like IT, so i guess that's something. :laugh: And besides i am always a DT fan despite my disappointment with this one!
I hope they come up with something truly amazing two years from now!
Isn't great music more important than being able to play a thousand notes per second? I mean, they show off like that at least 3 songs EVERY SINGLE ALBUM. Kind of the reason my parents don't really like DT and absolutely love Rush.
My parents haven't heard the new album. I'm trying to convince myself that THIS is the one: THIS will be the one they like.I'm probably as old or older than your parents and I get that DT isn't there bag. As a diehard Rush fan, a band I have seen 40 times I would say the similarities are that they both play progressive music. Other than the fact DT has purposely has written Rush type riffs they are not all that similar at all, imo.
:lucien:
They didn't like Scenes. They also kind of thought me strange after I said it had a funny ending. This was before the.. samples..
Everyone in the car looked at me when Victoria was shot. :\
Seems like Rush is the only prog band that exists :justjen :justjen :justjen :justjen :justjen
I have spoken of my little musical variety before. No need to bring it up :\
Again, I dip into other prog stuff pretty often. My parents mostly love Rush, but really, I try to find other prog stuff they could listen to, but then I refrain once I hear a long wankery instrumental section, as my parents hate them. It was my fault to play then Octavarium and Black Clouds first.
My parents haven't heard the new album. I'm trying to convince myself that THIS is the one: THIS will be the one they like.
:lucien:
They didn't like Scenes. They also kind of thought me strange after I said it had a funny ending. This was before the.. samples..
Everyone in the car looked at me when Victoria was shot. :\
This is such an amazing release by DT. IMO, it is their best release since SDOIT. When I look at the Poll results,l I just cant understand, why 19 people were disappointed by the release. What are you looking for? Have you just moved on from DT, because this is a pure DT album through and through. Just interested to hear.
Well i am one of those 19 so i try to break it down to you from my perspective. :biggrin:
As a DT fan for quite many years now, this is the first record that has been a big disappointment for me. After the first listen, i sat on my chair for a couple of minutes thinking how incredibly bad it was. Well i thought that by listening to it more it would grow on me, and it did though not by much.
IMO DT is at its best when they manage to amaze you with their technical prowess and move you close to tears, all in the same song. ACOS, Scarred and TMOLS for example do that to me.
This new album managed to do neither for me. Why that is?, i don't know. But i am happy that so many of you think this is a masterpiece and the best thing since sliced bread. :biggrin: I wish i could like it as much as most of you, but i don't see it growing to me more than it has already.
With that being said, DT12 still has its moments, though few and far between. And i am really starting to like IT, so i guess that's something. :laugh: And besides i am always a DT fan despite my disappointment with this one!
I hope they come up with something truly amazing two years from now!
Isn't great music more important than being able to play a thousand notes per second? I mean, they show off like that at least 3 songs EVERY SINGLE ALBUM. Kind of the reason my parents don't really like DT and absolutely love Rush.
Trying to convince your parents to like your music has to be the most pointless exercise ever.Well, not really if they are rock music fans and more specifically Rush. Now if they are into Elvis, or Bruce Springsteen, or Lawrence Welk, its pointless for sure.
I have to say that I love what most people call "wankery." I love it when John and Jordan decide to just play a 2-3 minute solo section in the middle of a song. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a fundamental part of the DT sound, so you really shouldn't expect them to stop doing it. I find that a lot of DT fans don't seem to enjoy much of that kind of thing, which to me is disliking one of the central elements of the band. All the time I see people say "I like ITNOG, but I don't like the solo section," or "TMOLS is ruined by the instrumental section" or "Full Circle is too wanky, I don't like it." Honestly, those are among my favorite parts of all three of those songs, and there are plenty of other examples.Couldn't agree more :tup
I have to say that I love what most people call "wankery." I love it when John and Jordan decide to just play a 2-3 minute solo section in the middle of a song. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a fundamental part of the DT sound, so you really shouldn't expect them to stop doing it. I find that a lot of DT fans don't seem to enjoy much of that kind of thing, which to me is disliking one of the central elements of the band. All the time I see people say "I like ITNOG, but I don't like the solo section," or "TMOLS is ruined by the instrumental section" or "Full Circle is too wanky, I don't like it." Honestly, those are among my favorite parts of all three of those songs, and there are plenty of other examples. My friendly advice is to sometimes just let the DT guys astound you with an epic solo section or some crazy rhythms (I love that one part of TEI with the crazy rhythms before the first verse; you know what part I'm talking about).
I have to say that I love what most people call "wankery." I love it when John and Jordan decide to just play a 2-3 minute solo section in the middle of a song. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a fundamental part of the DT sound, so you really shouldn't expect them to stop doing it. I find that a lot of DT fans don't seem to enjoy much of that kind of thing, which to me is disliking one of the central elements of the band. All the time I see people say "I like ITNOG, but I don't like the solo section," or "TMOLS is ruined by the instrumental section" or "Full Circle is too wanky, I don't like it." Honestly, those are among my favorite parts of all three of those songs, and there are plenty of other examples. My friendly advice is to sometimes just let the DT guys astound you with an epic solo section or some crazy rhythms (I love that one part of TEI with the crazy rhythms before the first verse; you know what part I'm talking about).
Trying to convince your parents to like your music has to be the most pointless exercise ever.Well, not really if they are rock music fans and more specifically Rush. Now if they are into Elvis, or Bruce Springsteen, or Lawrence Welk, its pointless for sure.
You tell me? I didn't say something was? I was pointing out some seemingly more mature based artists.Trying to convince your parents to like your music has to be the most pointless exercise ever.Well, not really if they are rock music fans and more specifically Rush. Now if they are into Elvis, or Bruce Springsteen, or Lawrence Welk, its pointless for sure.
What's wrong with Bruce Springsteen?
"Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.
"Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.
I have to say that I love what most people call "wankery." I love it when John and Jordan decide to just play a 2-3 minute solo section in the middle of a song. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a fundamental part of the DT sound, so you really shouldn't expect them to stop doing it. I find that a lot of DT fans don't seem to enjoy much of that kind of thing, which to me is disliking one of the central elements of the band. All the time I see people say "I like ITNOG, but I don't like the solo section," or "TMOLS is ruined by the instrumental section" or "Full Circle is too wanky, I don't like it." Honestly, those are among my favorite parts of all three of those songs, and there are plenty of other examples. My friendly advice is to sometimes just let the DT guys astound you with an epic solo section or some crazy rhythms (I love that one part of TEI with the crazy rhythms before the first verse; you know what part I'm talking about).I have to agree so much with this as well. Maybe the lack of ridiculous instrumental madness is one of the reasons I don't seem to like DT12 as much as people here generally.
"Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.
I listen to progressive music often, but i also like "basic" song structures. I play/sing in a sort of modern melodic- metal band, so a song doesn't have to have a section with crazy instrumentation to be good for me. Besides i really like FII and Octavarium, and prog bands that have a "slightly" simpler edge to them also sound good to me.
But i personally feel that, by not including songs like Metropolis 1 or maybe something like Panic attack they are throwing away some of that charm that made me a DT fan in the first place. Yes they have the Enigma Machine on this album, but it feels like a obligatory instrumental to me. Maybe i m just a fan of JP and JR shredding their instruments, i dont know.
Maybe i just need to look at this album in a different light, but i feel slightly alienated by this new style they have on this album.
I have to say that I love what most people call "wankery." I love it when John and Jordan decide to just play a 2-3 minute solo section in the middle of a song. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a fundamental part of the DT sound, so you really shouldn't expect them to stop doing it. I find that a lot of DT fans don't seem to enjoy much of that kind of thing, which to me is disliking one of the central elements of the band. All the time I see people say "I like ITNOG, but I don't like the solo section," or "TMOLS is ruined by the instrumental section" or "Full Circle is too wanky, I don't like it." Honestly, those are among my favorite parts of all three of those songs, and there are plenty of other examples. My friendly advice is to sometimes just let the DT guys astound you with an epic solo section or some crazy rhythms (I love that one part of TEI with the crazy rhythms before the first verse; you know what part I'm talking about).
Could not agree more with this. How can you be a true DT fan and not like the wankery that comes with it?
"Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.
A good question. Maybe I ain't then.
OK, I like some wankery sections, like The Reckoning on ITPOE, but for example the mid-section in Sacrificed Sons breaks the great flow of the song.
I'm not surprised there are so many people who don't like the virtuoso sections of songs but still are DT fans. DT is about so much more than just virtuosity that there are bound to be fans that love other aspects but not that. I will say what does still confuse me is that some folks seem so surprised when those moments are included! :lol Seriously, every album has them in abundance.I love this post, but one question....Why did you try to despise it? :justjen
Back to this album: I've tried to burn myself out on it, I can't. I've tried to nitpick it, I can't. I've tried to despise it, I can't. It's official, I really love this record! Top tier album for me and is exactly what I would have liked to create if I had any talent whatsoever.
I'm not surprised there are so many people who don't like the virtuoso sections of songs but still are DT fans. DT is about so much more than just virtuosity that there are bound to be fans that love other aspects but not that. I will say what does still confuse me is that some folks seem so surprised when those moments are included! :lol Seriously, every album has them in abundance.I love this post, but one question....Why did you try to despise it? :justjen
Back to this album: I've tried to burn myself out on it, I can't. I've tried to nitpick it, I can't. I've tried to despise it, I can't. It's official, I really love this record! Top tier album for me and is exactly what I would have liked to create if I had any talent whatsoever.
"Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.
There are songs sprinkled throughout the band's catalog where they are firing on all cylinders with a great riff, or great vocals, or great melodies, and then they turn their focus to soloing and it kills the mood.
"Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.
Honestly i cannot name a single song where that has bothered me. Songs like Blind Faith sound perfect to me as they are, with
great melodies and a "wankery" section.
Just because you don't like something, it doesn't mean they just wrote fast notes "for nothing"."Wankery" is one of their trademarks, sure, but they do sometimes seem to indulge it at the expense of some of their other trademarks.
Honestly i cannot name a single song where that has bothered me. Songs like Blind Faith sound perfect to me as they are, with
great melodies and a "wankery" section.
Yeah, but that unison have a nice "kind of melody", it's not just fast notes for nothing.
Nothing to do with me liking it or not, just throwing the songwriting to space :sadpanda:They could have done something different, to be sure. But "better" or "worse" are in the eye of the beholder. This section you mention is exactly what they wanted to put there, and it works great for most fans. It just doesn't for you, that's all.
For example, that part (2:00 i think) into Lost Not Forgotten that there's is that crazy section that i think it is forced and cringeworthy but just forget it, you will say i just dislike it... opinions, subjectivity, blah blah blah, like there's no reason to think it is plain bad and they could have made something better instead of showing of.
Nothing to do with me liking it or not, just throwing the songwriting to space :sadpanda:
For example, that part (2:00 i think) into Lost Not Forgotten that there's is that crazy section that i think it is forced and cringeworthy but just forget it, you will say i just dislike it... opinions, subjectivity, blah blah blah, like there's no reason to think it is plain bad and they could have made something better instead of showing of.
It makes me laugh when I read some say that Enigma Machine was just the obligatory instrumental they added to the album just to have one. That makes no sense to me since they don't have a token instrumental on every album. Silly.Not to mention that it isn't a technical wankfest like, say, TDOT, or a more bloated piece like SOC, but is rather more melodic and a real concisely constructed piece of music, more akin to Erotomania.
It's really impressive from a technical standpoint, but I'm not a big fan of that section either. It's a bit too ridiculous and doesn't really fit. IMO.Yeah, i know that's it's impressive from a technical standpoint but who cares if it doesn't fit anyway (like you said).
Does anyone feel like we spend so much time analyzing this album that it becomes hard to just sit back and listen to it. :metalNo. But congrats on your username. :biggrin:
It's really impressive from a technical standpoint, but I'm not a big fan of that section either. It's a bit too ridiculous and doesn't really fit. IMO.It's quite the contrary from where I'm standing. The tickle section is one of my favorites precisely because of the context and juxtaposition. Having one of most technical DT sections followed by such a simple groove is a brilliant contrast and makes that part exciting as hell. Moments like this is why I enjoy prog.
I agree completely.It's really impressive from a technical standpoint, but I'm not a big fan of that section either. It's a bit too ridiculous and doesn't really fit. IMO.It's quite the contrary from where I'm standing. The tickle section is one of my favorites precisely because of the context and juxtaposition. Having one of most technical DT sections followed by such a simple groove is a brilliant contrast and makes that part exciting as hell. Moments like this is why I enjoy prog.
It's really impressive from a technical standpoint, but I'm not a big fan of that section either. It's a bit too ridiculous and doesn't really fit. IMO.It's quite the contrary from where I'm standing. The tickle section is one of my favorites precisely because of the context and juxtaposition. Having one of most technical DT sections followed by such a simple groove is a brilliant contrast and makes that part exciting as hell. Moments like this is why I enjoy prog.
Now i get why you like SC and BC but dont like DT12 very much.
Same here. I don't think this example is a reason whatsoever.Now i get why you like SC and BC but dont like DT12 very much.
Your remark doesn't stand. At all. I like the tickle section in LNF a lot but don't like SC or BC&SL. And i absolutely love DT 12.
B.Lee
This review describes perfectly how I feel about the record:
https://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1054543
I am one of the dissapointed listeners, and one of the reasons is, IMHO, the record begins with two unrepresentative songs: FAS is more a live show intro and doesnt really fit in this album. Also, TEI is a very heavy beginning for a not so heavy CD.
I am one of the dissapointed listeners, and one of the reasons is, IMHO, the record begins with two unrepresentative songs: FAS is more a live show intro and doesnt really fit in this album. Also, TEI is a very heavy beginning for a not so heavy CD. What I did was a new playlist:FAS is a cool opening as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't fit? I like it and I think it starts the record nicely.
1- Behind the veil
2- The looking glass
3- Along for the ride
4- Surrender to reason
5- Enigma machine
6- The bigger picture
7- Illumination theory
8- The enemy inside
I feel this song progression more natural. I think of the easter egg as an epilogue to IT, and TEI as the real easter egg, which is more enjoyable, for me at least.
:)
:hefdaddy
Illumination Theory
False Awakening Suite
Enigma Machine
The Enemy Inside
The Looking Glass
Behind the Veil
The Bigger Picture
:justjen
Surrender to Reason
Along for the Ride
I am really trying to like this album. It is a 'technically' solid album, but the songs (to me) are not memorable. I think it feels almost too technical.too technical compared to what?
I am really trying to like this album. It is a 'technically' solid album, but the songs (to me) are not memorable. I think it feels almost too technical.too technical compared to what?
I am really trying to like this album. It is a 'technically' solid album, but the songs (to me) are not memorable. I think it feels almost too technical.too technical compared to what?
IMO - Along For The Ride is nowhere near as good as The Answer Lies Within or This Is The Life. :dunno:
IMO - Along For The Ride is nowhere near as good as The Answer Lies Within or This Is The Life. :dunno:
I am really trying to like this album. It is a 'technically' solid album, but the songs (to me) are not memorable. I think it feels almost too technical.too technical compared to what?
Does it have to be a comparison? I totally enjoyed listening to ATODE much more. There is just something that isn't clicking with me on this album. I know I am in the minority, but I am a-ok with that. I am trying. I am listening to it now. It's not that it's bad. It's just not that as fantastic as I thought it'd be. I will continue to give it spins. Maybe it will grow on me.
It's like this... there is good fried chicken and there is great fried chicken. Sometimes, they both have the same ingredients, but one just tastes better. The album has all of the ingredients that make a great DT album, but it feels like it's missing something. For one, the ballads didn't hit me as "emotional". Missing that one little bit of emotion compared to albums past.... They seemed kind of flat to me. For example, "Beneath The Surface" was much more emotional. Made me want to sing along with it. None of the songs on this album give that feeling.
I know I'll be called crazy and possibly dismissed, but I stand by my opinion...
IMO - Along For The Ride is nowhere near as good as The Answer Lies Within or This Is The Life. :dunno:
IMO it slays both of them :D
IMO - Along For The Ride is nowhere near as good as The Answer Lies Within or This Is The Life. :dunno:
IMO it slays both of them :D
Compared to ADTOE I feel that is is much more guitarcentric. Jordan, on that album, was much more in the mixAgreed. I was hoping that tendency would continue, I really liked Jordan being more up front on ADTOE. His playing is at its peak, his sounds are better than ever, it would have made sense, especially after seeing all the equipment he hauled into the studio. JP's guitar, although his playing and tone is at peak levels as well, tends to get a little overwhelming at some points.
IMO the album has such a rare quality wherein the songs could flow into each other seamlessly (almost like a concept album), but also can stand on their own as top quality songs. It's really ironic because the songs are not "joined" together; they all have proper endings yet they seem to flow each other so well!
Iīve been away for a while... Lots of shit going on. Anyway... I got the album in the week it came out and Iīve been listening to it ever since. Everyday. Itīs good, very good. Itīs strong. But I got to tell you: I really miss Portnoy. Mangini is a fantastic drummer. But his playing is too mechanic. Lacks feeling. He is a robot! I had that impression with ADTOE. Now it is confirmed. I just felt like spilling it out. Crucify me! See ya...
Ehh, not much is as hateable as the worst of the other roadrunner albums, but there's also nothing very likeable about it which drives me to find reasons to hate it. It's had its chance to grow on me, and it didn't.
Still love the album but one thing that's getting really under my skin is that snare. Especially in songs where the snare is pretty isolated like on the intro of IT. Sounds like a fake cheap electronic snare. The terrible triggered snare from I&W sounds better.
Ehh, not much is as hateable as the worst of the other roadrunner albums, but there's also nothing very likeable about it which drives me to find reasons to hate it. It's had its chance to grow on me, and it didn't.
Just because you didn't find anything to like it doesn't mean that you actively have to hate it. Just sayin'.
okay, what I'm trying to say is that my attention is more drawn to the negatives than the positives due to a general lack of positives
even the songs I "like" off the album have some meh bits to them
it's not like it's the worst album I've ever heard, just that it's depressing coming from this band.
okay, what I'm trying to say is that my attention is more drawn to the negatives than the positives due to a general lack of positives
even the songs I "like" off the album have some meh bits to them
it's not like it's the worst album I've ever heard, just that it's depressing coming from this band.
521 votes?! Wow! Didn't even know there were that many people here!
:facepalm: :tdwn
Along For The Ride
After more listens....This album is justway overly loud. Too loud if I may say so.Pretty much, yeah.
After more listens....This album is justway overly loud. Too loud if I may say so. But the songs are still top notch.
After more listens....This album is justway overly loud. Too loud if I may say so. But the songs are still top notch.
If you enjoy the album that much and don't mind spending the extra money, I'd highly recommend the HDTracks version if you want to enjoy it without all of the compression. :tup
:facepalm: :tdwn
Along For The Ride
:'(
By far the worst DT album since WDADU, only one remotely enjoyable song imo (The Looking Glass). With everything else I just get very bored - what BD said he felt about ADTOE (an album I thoroughly enjoy) I feel about this album. It just seems so... pointless, none of the odd time sigs or rhythms or melodies put a smile on my face as 'old' DT did, and despite MM's undeniable technical skill, I find his drumming completely devoid of feel.
I hope they don't play too much of this on the tour x_x
They'll be playing the whole album since the tour is in An Evening With format.They will surely play most of it, but I doubt all of it. I say we get 6 of 8 tracks with FAS played as a recording to begin the show.
The HDtracks, I converted to AAC as the ALAC won't play on ipods....it still sounds better than the actual cd mix.Apple iPods don't support the Apple Lossless Audio Codec? :lol
The HDtracks, I converted to AAC as the ALAC won't play on ipods....it still sounds better than the actual cd mix.Apple iPods don't support the Apple Lossless Audio Codec? :lol
I know right, I believe because its higher quality then the usual 16 or whatever it is, don't want to look it up.I looked it up. They do support ALAC, but only to CD quality. So if you convert the HDTracks to 16 bit and 44.1khz you can put those ALAC files on an iPod.
I know right, I believe because its higher quality then the usual 16 or whatever it is, don't want to look it up.I looked it up. They do support ALAC, but only to CD quality. So if you convert the HDTracks to 16 bit and 44.1khz you can put those ALAC files on an iPod.
I know right, I believe because its higher quality then the usual 16 or whatever it is, don't want to look it up.I looked it up. They do support ALAC, but only to CD quality. So if you convert the HDTracks to 16 bit and 44.1khz you can put those ALAC files on an iPod.
It doesn't let me change the settings. But it still sounds better than the cd Apple Lossless.
Still kind of let down. I think this album had the potential to be one of their best since 90's era DT, but the it falls flat. It seems like they wrote a whole bunch of different parts and then kind of strung them together without thinking about whether it actually worked as a whole. Best example of this would have to Behind the Veil. Starts out airy and light, then gets super heavy and dark, then jumps back to being light and airy. It just doesn't work.As of now, I partly agree with you. It's still my least favourite DT album, even though I'm beginning to like it more. The transitions are indeed kinda weird sometimes.
Not to mention the awful production. Nothing has come to close to the great sounds of their earlier work since 6DOIT. ADTOE was a step in the right direction, but then DT just took it two steps back. Everything sounds muddy and compressed, not good at all.
Listened to it for the first time recently. I say it's decent, kinda disappointed with how it turned out. I love the first half of the album, FAS, TEI, The Looking Glass and Enigma Machine are all pretty solid imo.
The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason and Along for the Ride don't stand out much to me. idk how to explain it but they all seem too... simple and straightforward. Illumination Theory is the best song in the album, but it could have been much better. IT just doesn't flow very well, it's too cut up. Individually each part of the song is brilliant but it's just not cohesive. I could also do without the very end of IT (the piano part). Overall it's a good album, just not as strong as I hoped it would be. Still not sure if I prefer ADToE more.
I absolutely love Myung and Rudess on this album, I hope we can hear Myungs bass like this in future albums. JLB is great as well, especially in Illumination Theory. Mangini was solid throughout the album, but he mainly stood out to me in Illumination Theory. Petrucci was kinda disappointing on this album, the guitar solo's just weren't very notable to me though the tone is pretty good.
Listened to it for the first time recently. I say it's decent, kinda disappointed with how it turned out. I love the first half of the album, FAS, TEI, The Looking Glass and Enigma Machine are all pretty solid imo.
The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason and Along for the Ride don't stand out much to me. idk how to explain it but they all seem too... simple and straightforward. Illumination Theory is the best song in the album, but it could have been much better. IT just doesn't flow very well, it's too cut up. Individually each part of the song is brilliant but it's just not cohesive. I could also do without the very end of IT (the piano part). Overall it's a good album, just not as strong as I hoped it would be. Still not sure if I prefer ADToE more.
I absolutely love Myung and Rudess on this album, I hope we can hear Myungs bass like this in future albums. JLB is great as well, especially in Illumination Theory. Mangini was solid throughout the album, but he mainly stood out to me in Illumination Theory. Petrucci was kinda disappointing on this album, the guitar solo's just weren't very notable to me though the tone is pretty good.
It's funny but I feel the opposite about the album from you - I find the run of the first four songs to sound simple and straightforward, especially TEI and TLG. I like FAS and EM well enough, but from TBP onward, the album just gets better and better. Heck, the run of BTP/BTV/STR is just amazing, and AFTR is pretty good, too. To top it all off is IT, and the beautiful coda of the Easter Egg (which I really do NOT consider to be a part of IT at all...I guess not being labelled as a separate track on the album leads people to think it's a part of IT, but those of us who knew about the DT12 Progress Chart in the studio know it was always meant to be a separate piece apart from the album's big epic).
-Marc.
DT12 is probably my second least favorite DT album, only ahead of WDADU
Worst DT album ever.
I'd probably change my vote from 'very strong' to 'decent' at this point. It hasn't aged that well for me over the last couple of months. It also seems like my favourites are the least favourites of the majority: The Looking Glass, Along for the Ride and Behind the Veil. I also just don't get The Bigger Picture - I don't understand why it has been rated so highly, to me it's a straightforward song that goes on too long.I definitely prefer ADTOE. It's not even close.
I think I now prefer ADTOE, perhaps because it's more similar to earlier DT material (by this I mean I&W-SFAM period; SDOIT is just as good but very different stylistically), which in my opinion is miles better than DT12.
Hopefully the songs come across better in the live setting.
I was actually hoping they would continue to move to a new direction like they started with ADTOE. My hope was that ADTOE played it a bit safe to not alienate the fan base, but that DT12 would show the "new DT" in full force. The way it is, DT12 I think spelled out the roadmap for the remaining albums of their career.
I was actually hoping they would continue to move to a new direction like they started with ADTOE. My hope was that ADTOE played it a bit safe to not alienate the fan base, but that DT12 would show the "new DT" in full force. The way it is, DT12 I think spelled out the roadmap for the remaining albums of their career.
Well put. This is what I'm dreading. Hopefully you're wrong, but I don't see DT doing anything new any time soon.
What are those? The biggest one I can think of is the orchestra section in IT.
What can they do that would be new? Dubstep? Gangsta Rap? Country? Guest vocals by Justin Bieber?
Jazz. Fusion. Not all out, but as an influence. The only time fusion ever appeared in a DT works was when JP ripped off Alan Holdsworth's "In the dead of night" solo. And I looove that Trial of Tears section.
What can they do that would be new? Dubstep? Gangsta Rap? Country? Guest vocals by Justin Bieber?
I don't mean expanding genres. I just think that many song on the album sound pretty similar. After skimming through the album again, The Looking Glass is actually really fresh sounding. It's not my favorite song, but it doesn't sound like cookie cutter DT song either. I just expect to see more throw-away songs like Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason, and half of The Bigger Picture. Those three songs kind of blend together, and the fact that they are all consecutive in the album creates this lull where I kind of just tune out.
Jazz. Fusion. Not all out, but as an influence. The only time fusion ever appeared in a DT works was when JP ripped off Alan Holdsworth's "In the dead of night" solo. And I looove that Trial of Tears section.
DT12 had more string squeak than all the previous albums combined. :)Jazz. Fusion. Not all out, but as an influence. The only time fusion ever appeared in a DT works was when JP ripped off Alan Holdsworth's "In the dead of night" solo. And I looove that Trial of Tears section.
Yes.
And strip down the sound. Less polish/sterility. More string squeak, drum clatter and room ambience, please. :)
What are those? The biggest one I can think of is the orchestra section in IT.
I have always just found the album really fresh. FAS is something new, TLG has a certain style the band rarely utilise and there are multiple parts of IT that seem new. Maybe I mean fresh instead of new. But as Zook said, what can they do that's new without turning off or alienating their fanbase?
What can they do that would be new? Dubstep? Gangsta Rap? Country? Guest vocals by Justin Bieber?
I don't mean expanding genres. I just think that many song on the album sound pretty similar. After skimming through the album again, The Looking Glass is actually really fresh sounding. It's not my favorite song, but it doesn't sound like cookie cutter DT song either. I just expect to see more throw-away songs like Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason, and half of The Bigger Picture. Those three songs kind of blend together, and the fact that they are all consecutive in the album creates this lull where I kind of just tune out.
I don't think any of those three sound similar at all.
What can they do that would be new? Dubstep? Gangsta Rap? Country? Guest vocals by Justin Bieber?
I don't mean expanding genres. I just think that many song on the album sound pretty similar. After skimming through the album again, The Looking Glass is actually really fresh sounding. It's not my favorite song, but it doesn't sound like cookie cutter DT song either. I just expect to see more throw-away songs like Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason, and half of The Bigger Picture. Those three songs kind of blend together, and the fact that they are all consecutive in the album creates this lull where I kind of just tune out.
I don't think any of those three sound similar at all.
I guess that's just a difference in opinion. *shrugs*
What can they do that would be new? Dubstep? Gangsta Rap? Country? Guest vocals by Justin Bieber?Next album, one krautrock song, one blackgaze, abstract hip hop, 2 tone and to wrap it up, an 20 min progressive bluegrass epic :biggrin:
I'm waiting for my drone doom metal epic a la Teeth of Lions Rule the Divine
Actually, Doom Metal usually has wailers, or vocalists in a higher range.I'm waiting for my drone doom metal epic a la Teeth of Lions Rule the Divine
I don't think James LaBrie could hit the properly low notes for Doom Metal.
Actually, Doom Metal usually has wailers, or vocalists in a higher range.I'm waiting for my drone doom metal epic a la Teeth of Lions Rule the Divine
I don't think James LaBrie could hit the properly low notes for Doom Metal.
I'd recommend you some bands, but a lot of them combo high vocals with some screaming, or more of the latter in a lot of cases :PActually, Doom Metal usually has wailers, or vocalists in a higher range.I'm waiting for my drone doom metal epic a la Teeth of Lions Rule the Divine
I don't think James LaBrie could hit the properly low notes for Doom Metal.
Really? I'm from the Type O Negative camp, so I don't really listen to too much Doom Metal outside of that.
I'd recommend you some bands, but a lot of them combo high vocals with some screaming, or more of the latter in a lot of cases :P
Since this thread kicked off I've been one of the most convinced fans of this album. Because actually, to me DT12 is a true masterpiece, the album I was waiting for ten years, but I won't say again why, cause I'd be a little redundant.
DT12 made me look forward to their future more than I ever have.
Off topic @StraySeed
What are those girls playing in your signature? :rollin
They are the girls from K-ON! anime. It's a funny story about five highschool girls forming a band.
Well... first of all thank you for taking the time to write so much! Your post made me think again of how varied is DT fanbase =)Haha and thank you for your thanks/your welcome!
Since this thread kicked off I've been one of the most convinced fans of this album. Because actually, to me DT12 is a true masterpiece, the album I was waiting for ten years, but I won't say again why, cause I'd be a little redundant.
On the other hand, Octavarium - that you seem to like a lot - is one of the few DT albums I hardly ever listen to (with the obvious exception of the wonderful title track), so I think it's just a matter of fans' taste and expectations.
My theory is the following: DT12 is different from the former albums. The last few albums (even ADTOE) rely on technical showmanship and musical prowess and are packed full with pretty long songs, while this one is built on catchy, well outlined melodies and is much more focused on songwriting. So if you were expecting/if you are fan of the first compositive style, you will less likely get into this album.
I don't know whether this has been discussed, but I take it STR is based musically and topically on Rush's Natural Science?
I don't know whether this has been discussed, but I take it STR is based musically and topically on Rush's Natural Science?
I don't know whether this has been discussed, but I take it STR is based musically and topically on Rush's Natural Science?
I think the albums you love instantly are the ones that have little longevity. I think ADTOE will fare better in the long run.
While DT12 is mostly great - there are a couple of songs that I don't really care for - which isn't the case on ADTOE.
Where did thisI think the albums you love instantly are the ones that have little longevity. I think ADTOE will fare better in the long run.
While DT12 is mostly great - there are a couple of songs that I don't really care for - which isn't the case on ADTOE.
I agree with all of this. The opening suite and TEM are skippable but I like the rest a ton but I put ADTOE slightly ahead.
"Thenigmachine."
Where did thisI think the albums you love instantly are the ones that have little longevity. I think ADTOE will fare better in the long run.
While DT12 is mostly great - there are a couple of songs that I don't really care for - which isn't the case on ADTOE.
I agree with all of this. The opening suite and TEM are skippable but I like the rest a ton but I put ADTOE slightly ahead.TheEnigma Machine epidemic come from? Although it would be kinda fun, as I could just say "Thenigmachine." Has a nice ring to it, just like "Brundlefly."
While it's one of the most rewarding musical experiences when an album you didn't care for at the first few listens evolves to become a favorite, it doesn't really affect longevity for me. Among my all-time favorite albums, there are some that I instantly fell in love with (actually, the vast majority) and some that were huge growers. I think longevity lies elsewhere. Depth, multiple layers and versatility are key factors and just because I liked an album when hearing it for the first time, doesn't mean it won't be offering a plethora of new experiences later on.
For my personal taste, DT12 is miles ahead of ADTOE.
thenigmachine is best song on the album and best instrumental by DT.
I really can't join in on the hype for that song. I find Enigma Machine to be one of the most boring things they've ever written.Yup. Not nearly as bad as Raw Dog, but really uninteresting.
This is a very addicting album. I thought ADTOE was a great return to form for the band, but this one is on a different level; for me personally at least. Just a beautiful piece of art and I just keep going back to this one over and over again.
Today, for the first time, I am listening to tracks from the album out of sequence :omg:
Heavily Rush influenced song
Heavily Rush influenced song
Heavily Rush influenced song
Behind the Veil
Illumination Theory
The Enemy Inside
Along For The Ride
False Awakening Suite
Enigma Machine
Heavily Rush influenced song
Heavily Rush influenced song
Heavily Rush influenced song
Behind the Veil
Illumination Theory
The Enemy Inside
Along For The Ride
False Awakening Suite
Enigma Machine
:lol
Makes perfect sense to me, King!
Heavily Rush influenced song
Heavily Rush influenced song
Heavily Rush influenced song
Behind the Veil
Illumination Theory
The Enemy Inside
Along For The Ride
False Awakening Suite
Enigma Machine
:lol
Makes perfect sense to me, King!
What the?! :lol
I'm being pigeonholed!! :getoffmylawn:
False Awakening Suite (confusing)
I'm being pigeonholed!! :getoffmylawn:Did you at least get kissed first?
I'm being pigeonholed!! :getoffmylawn:Did you at least get kissed first?
False Awakening Suite (confusing)
Why is it confusing? It's a cinematic little piece used as an album opener, and to open concerts of the current tour. Pretty straightforward really..
False Awakening Suite not only packs a whole bunch of music into tiny 3 minutes, it also packs a whole lot of awesomeness. Definitely one of the best album openers.
False Awakening Suite not only packs a whole bunch of music into tiny 3 minutes, it also packs a whole lot of awesomeness. Definitely one of the best album openers.
I think it works perfectly for an album opener, especially for a self titled album. :tup It's actually one of my favourite tracks from the album, top 2 or 3 for me.
Yeah, U could say that. But I'd also say that it would ONLY work as an album opener :P Think about in the middle of the album.. haha ;D
I don't mean that I hate it. I just find it "weird" ...
I don't like really much what comes after FAS. TEI isn't my favourite DT Single :P
It pains me to say it, but I made an edit of Illumination Theory - in which I cut out pretty much the entire ambient and string section - and it has made it a much better song for me. It now flows a lot better and is a very solid track of 17:50 mins.
After listening to DT12 many, many times, I can say the "problem" (for me) with this record, is I don't feel the NEED to sing the songs. It doesn't move me at all. I can't say anything negative about it musically, it's obviously a great job, but it's kind of cold. This short song format, doesn't work for me. Maybe Mangini was "unleashed", but the others don't. IMHO.
TBP is the only song on the album I don't like one bit, so I'm glad that one wasn't nominated. I think TEI is the best choice from the album for this situation.
TBP is the only song on the album I don't like one bit, so I'm glad that one wasn't nominated. I think TEI is the best choice from the album for this situation.
I don't understand how you could like Enigma Machine or Along For The Ride over TBP.
or any standout sections.
Screw you guys, The Bigger Picture kicks ass. That ending is beautiful, man.
The more I listen to DT12 the more I appreciate every song. It's clear they made an effort to 'trim the fat' on these songs rather than have the obligatory 4-5 minutes of just 'DT wankery' in their songs. Not that I didn't/don't like some DT wankery but the awesome thing about DT12 to me is that they just give us concise, well arranged songs with no BS and incredible musicianship.
The lyrics are inspiring....the melodies are beautiful and they all sound great! I love MM's playing because he plays these technical fills/beats....I'm not a drummer so I don't know the terminology.....but he plays his parts so effortlessly that you can fail to realize just how difficult it is what he's doing and how awesome it is as well.
I'm sold....and a firm believer that DT12 is an album that Dream Theater can point to and say...."That's Us"
...if it weren't for the horrible vocal effects. It's like Chaos in Motion but in a studio.
The more I listen to DT12 the more I appreciate every song. It's clear they made an effort to 'trim the fat' on these songs rather than have the obligatory 4-5 minutes of just 'DT wankery' in their songs. Not that I didn't/don't like some DT wankery but the awesome thing about DT12 to me is that they just give us concise, well arranged songs with no BS and incredible musicianship.:hefdaddy
The lyrics are inspiring....the melodies are beautiful and they all sound great! I love MM's playing because he plays these technical fills/beats....I'm not a drummer so I don't know the terminology.....but he plays his parts so effortlessly that you can fail to realize just how difficult it is what he's doing and how awesome it is as well.
I'm sold....and a firm believer that DT12 is an album that Dream Theater can point to and say...."That's Us"
...if it weren't for the horrible vocal effects. It's like Chaos in Motion but in a studio.
Yeah there's a lot of phasing going on with the vocals on DT12.
...if it weren't for the horrible vocal effects. It's like Chaos in Motion but in a studio.
"Know the joy in liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiife" ~ IT 17:28
Listen to that long note. There is so much fake vibrato, it sounds like some synthesizer instead of a human voice. It's almost unlistenable for me; same goes for most of Chaos in Motion. I'm not entirely sure what the vocal effect is but it's most noticable on the Bb, A, and G (when JLB resolves to the F, the real vibrato comes in).
It's such a shame because I really enjoy the song, but that keeps it from being as could as it could be. That's what really frustrates me.
"Know the joy in liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiife" ~ IT 17:28
Listen to that long note. There is so much fake vibrato, it sounds like some synthesizer instead of a human voice. It's almost unlistenable for me; same goes for most of Chaos in Motion. I'm not entirely sure what the vocal effect is but it's most noticable on the Bb, A, and G (when JLB resolves to the F, the real vibrato comes in).
It's such a shame because I really enjoy the song, but that keeps it from being as could as it could be. That's what really frustrates me.
Anyway it doesn't bother me at all even now that I know about it but thanks for pointing out that exact moment so I finally know what people mean when they talk about vocal effects in IT casue I've seen it on this forums before.
"Know the joy in liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiife" ~ IT 17:28
"Know the joy in liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiife" ~ IT 17:28
Um......isn't the line 'never know that you're alive?'
Also, on that specific note, I don't hear any vibrato at all, I think it's just a mix of the production, vox and guitar. I noticed it sounded a little funny too when I first heard it but I just think it's just the pitch of James' notes. I love the whole section and think the vocal effects sound great and really add to the song.
The only thing is when James sings the word 'heart' at 16:57, it is notciably off pitch.
"Know the joy in liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiife" ~ IT 17:28
Um......isn't the line 'never know that you're alive?'
"Know the joy in liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiife" ~ IT 17:28
Listen to that long note. There is so much fake vibrato, it sounds like some synthesizer instead of a human voice. It's almost unlistenable for me; same goes for most of Chaos in Motion. I'm not entirely sure what the vocal effect is but it's most noticable on the Bb, A, and G (when JLB resolves to the F, the real vibrato comes in).
It's such a shame because I really enjoy the song, but that keeps it from being as could as it could be. That's what really frustrates me.
I've warmed up quite a bit on the actual content, but the production still kills me. The clipping is noticeable right away, but midway through, you start to notice all the other issues - the drums and ESPECIALLY the cymbals. The cymbals in particular sound like I'm playing my music on the car stereo via bluetooth, even though the CD is actually in. Ugh.
The HD Tracks version is better, but not noticeably better, and still not HQ-sounding. Granted, the sound of it doesn't bother me like it does others, but if you don't like the sound of the normal album, the HD version won't change your mind.
Had DT12 in the car today, after having not really listened to it at all since September.
I've warmed up quite a bit on the actual content, but the production still kills me. The clipping is noticeable right away, but midway through, you start to notice all the other issues - the drums and ESPECIALLY the cymbals. The cymbals in particular sound like I'm playing my music on the car stereo via bluetooth, even though the CD is actually in. Ugh.
I've listened to a lot of music this year, probably over 50 albums. With better production, DT12 might have cracked the top 20. But, as is, I just can't really listen to it."Know the joy in liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiife" ~ IT 17:28
Listen to that long note. There is so much fake vibrato, it sounds like some synthesizer instead of a human voice. It's almost unlistenable for me; same goes for most of Chaos in Motion. I'm not entirely sure what the vocal effect is but it's most noticable on the Bb, A, and G (when JLB resolves to the F, the real vibrato comes in).
It's such a shame because I really enjoy the song, but that keeps it from being as could as it could be. That's what really frustrates me.
Same here. I brought this up earlier on, but not many people commented. But yeah, at the end, James is so doused in effects, his voice barely sounds human to me. :(
It's sad when songs from decades ago are sounding better than songs from 2013.Yup. Especially when the songs are by the same band :biggrin:
See, the clipping isn't glaring enough to me to be bothersome. I get bothered by the compression, which I don't really notice when I am listening to the whole thing, but if I am listening to music on shuffle, it can really stand out. I was at the gym last week, and The Looking Glass came on right after a song from the 80s, and it was like someone had just put something in between my ears and my iPod headphones; the compression really stood out when listening to a song from the album right after a song that doesn't have any or hardly any compression. It's sad when songs from decades ago are sounding better than songs from 2013.
No.
See, the clipping isn't glaring enough to me to be bothersome. I get bothered by the compression, which I don't really notice when I am listening to the whole thing, but if I am listening to music on shuffle, it can really stand out. I was at the gym last week, and The Looking Glass came on right after a song from the 80s, and it was like someone had just put something in between my ears and my iPod headphones; the compression really stood out when listening to a song from the album right after a song that doesn't have any or hardly any compression. It's sad when songs from decades ago are sounding better than songs from 2013.
Well, the HD tracks take care of the compression issue too, right?
No.
So is that compression a result from the mixing then? It'd have to be either that or the recording because I thought DT just uses the unmastered versions for HDTracks.
It has gotten a little better with more listens but my biggest gripe is that is that the album flies by way too fast and leaves me wanting more. I doubt I'll ever like it more than A Dramatic Turn of Events. Its till a Meh working its way up to Decent.
...which goes unnoticed behind the wall of sound of the guitars.
...which goes unnoticed behind the wall of sound of the guitars.
This has been my biggest gripe and I think I've posted about it in another thread or two. I like it when bands let all the instruments breathe a little. It seems like we have guitar on top of guitar, and just lose anything that isn't JR (or JLB if singing). There are times I just figure, JM is probably playing the same thing JP is, but I just can't pick it out with my hearing very well.
Best album since SFAM (yeah, take that 6DOIT fanboys).
Great point, and something that's clear but not obvious at times. I think since the mostly remix of SFAM, JP has become increasingly, or at least super up front and overpowering on each release.
Now, I prefer the Shirley remixes of SFAM. But listening to Bottrill mixes, the instruments did breathe a little more. Maybe with the exception of FII (Shirley consequently), this was the case on everything prior to the SFAM Shirley mixes. Since that point, which is also when JP was at least a co-producer, the guitar is much more present for better or for worse.
JP obviously likes that sound, but I would love to hear it scaled back to one guitar. When JP is soloing -- I don't see why it can't just be JM playing the supporting rhythm on bass alone. To be fair JP isn't the only one that does it, but I feel it to just take away from my enjoyment a little.
I understand putting a rhythm guitar under your solo if you're a power trio. But Jordan is fully capable of covering the sonic space left empty by the soloing guitar, so I totally agree, it's unnecessary.
After many many listens of the album, I still can barely enjoy or appreciate MM's drumming just because of how terrible it sounds to me. If you sat down at a drum set and began to play, and the drums made the sounds that you hear on the album, you'd think something was terribly wrong with it. It just sounds so fake, like he's playing an electronic drum set. The snare is wonky and unfocused, the bass drum sounds like a low tom, and the cymbals just sound awful. It's such a shame because his drumming is fantastic, and he does a lot of cool things. It just still amazes me that everyone in the band was okay with this drum sound.
If the production was SFAM quality, I would like this album. Could someone enlighten me as to why they keep doing the multiple James voice thing?
After many many listens of the album, I still can barely enjoy or appreciate MM's drumming just because of how terrible it sounds to me. If you sat down at a drum set and began to play, and the drums made the sounds that you hear on the album, you'd think something was terribly wrong with it. It just sounds so fake, like he's playing an electronic drum set. The snare is wonky and unfocused, the bass drum sounds like a low tom, and the cymbals just sound awful. It's such a shame because his drumming is fantastic, and he does a lot of cool things. It just still amazes me that everyone in the band was okay with this drum sound.
This isn't something I really thought about, but I do feel like the drums are certainly not pushed out there. I know MP could be a little too pushy with the drum sound, but I remember giving ADTOE a bit of a pass on the drum department. I knew he was flying, but I also knew he didn't have a lot of input and it may have been somewhat subdued on the album itself. I know MM had a lot of input in DT12, and you can tell he's flying, but I'd be hard pressed to tell you one drum track. I know he's awesome, but it's not like anything grabs me. Whereas something like 6:00, that sort of opening sticks with you. (I say this as someone who puts MM over MP.)
For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.
*puts flameshield on*
For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.
*puts flameshield on*
So Enigma Machine two drum solo spots, Illumination Theory part with JM after orchestral section and Surredner To Reason MM, JM, JP solo spot doesn't grab and stick with you from drumming viewpoint at all? They are still burnt in my mind as very memorable and awesome and I'm sure there are even more but these three or four immediately came to my mind.
For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.
*puts flameshield on*
For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.
*puts flameshield on*
So you're saying JP is a better drummer than MM?
:laugh:
For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.
*puts flameshield on*
So you're saying JP is a better drummer than MM?
:laugh:
They wrote the parts together.
Of course he is - just watch Nightmare Cinema's version of Perfect Strangers! :neverusethis:For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.
*puts flameshield on*
So you're saying JP is a better drummer than MM?
:laugh:
The album is way too short....
I lived on ADToE until a couple months before DT12 came out. I already feel burned out on this one.
The album is way too short....
I lived on ADToE until a couple months before DT12 came out. I already feel burned out on this one.
"way too short" seems like quite the stretch considering that the album is an hour and eight minutes long. You would have hated the 70's. :biggrin:
The album is way too short....
I lived on ADToE until a couple months before DT12 came out. I already feel burned out on this one.
"way too short" seems like quite the stretch considering that the album is an hour and eight minutes long. You would have hated the 70's. :biggrin:
But back then, the time between albums was a lot shorter depending on the band.
I'm a drummer and have played every song on either album as much as twice (only Along For The Ride. Great drumming, don't find it much fun to play.) to as many as 100+ times (Outcry and Bridges in the Sky). In my opinion (coming from a 17 year old who's been drumming for 2 1/2 years mind you, not a professional), the drumming on DT12 is very technical at a lot of parts, but so is ADToE. TEI has some great drum work. The Looking Glass flows very nicely and the improv behind JP's solo is very tasteful. Enigma Machine isn't the most technical song but the drumming is great and the mini solo towards the end is very nice. Surrender To Reason has excellent drumming the whole way through and the way he plays the ride and bass during the main riff is fairly technical. The solo section with the MM JMX groove in the back on that song is probably my favorite section of the album. It's really grooving and accents the solo very well. IT has amazing drumming throughout the whole thing. Highlights include the groove at the beginning of "Surrender, Trust, and Passion", the cool fill at the end of the intro, the monster fill during "Surrender, Trust, and Passion".For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.
*puts flameshield on*
No need for flameshield. I know some people with intelligent views on drumming who agree with you. I think people sorta dismissed ADToE's drumming without taking the to really listen to it in comparison to MM's other work. I think it's pretty close between ADToE and DT12 drumming.
Good album, a grower.
Good album, a grower.
Opposite for me, it was a shower, and did not grow but faded from my cd player faster than any other release yet.
For some reason I find MM's drumming more interesting on ADTOE than the new album.
*puts flameshield on*
I totally agree. It seems that most of the fills on DT are just fast and not very technical, unlike those on ADToE.
The more I listen to DT12 the more I appreciate every song. It's clear they made an effort to 'trim the fat' on these songs rather than have the obligatory 4-5 minutes of just 'DT wankery' in their songs. Not that I didn't/don't like some DT wankery but the awesome thing about DT12 to me is that they just give us concise, well arranged songs with no BS and incredible musicianship.
The lyrics are inspiring....the melodies are beautiful and they all sound great! I love MM's playing because he plays these technical fills/beats....I'm not a drummer so I don't know the terminology.....but he plays his parts so effortlessly that you can fail to realize just how difficult it is what he's doing and how awesome it is as well.
I'm sold....and a firm believer that DT12 is an album that Dream Theater can point to and say...."That's Us"
I still listen to this album about 2-3 times a week, for me, that's saying something. Incredible album and DT have done what I never thought they would do.
I still listen to this album about 2-3 times a week, for me, that's saying something. Incredible album and DT have done what I never thought they would do.
I really like this album. It feels like a throwback to SFAM/6DOIT in my opinion. Very melodic and atmospheric.
I really like this album. It feels like a throwback to SFAM/6DOIT in my opinion. Very melodic and atmospheric.
And major. Since being signed to RR, they've been very scarce with happier sounding melodies, but on this album, there are quite a few examples of it.
Hadn't listened to the full album in a while and going back to it all I can say is that if it wasn't for TEM, this would be DT's second best album easily. I'm still amazed at this comeback from the band after I had lost my faith in them.
Yeah, that's how much attention I pay to that song :lol
Seriously, their worst instrumental by far.
Yeah, that's how much attention I pay to that song :lol
Seriously, their worst instrumental by far.
You prefer "Raw Dog"? (You didn't specify album instrumental)
-Marc.
Yeah, that's how much attention I pay to that song :lol
Seriously, their worst instrumental by far.
You prefer "Raw Dog"? (You didn't specify album instrumental)
-Marc.
I forgot about raw dog :lol. Still, second worst is nothing to be proud about :P
I forgot about raw dog :lol. Still, second worst is nothing to be proud about :P
It's Dream Theater we're talking about. Second worst by DT standards is still awesome.
As much as I initially disliked A Dramatic Turn Of Events, I think I prefer it to Dream Theater.Same here.
No it's not. Even amazing bands can slip by the occasional stinker, even DT.Says the guy who hates second half of Awake.
No it's not. Even amazing bands can slip by the occasional stinker, even DT.Says the guy who hates second half of Awake.
Point proven. DT have some stinkers! :biggrin:
Point proven. DT have some stinkers! :biggrin:
So, I know I'm totally baiting, but how would you say Enigma Machine stacks up to Scarred or Lifting Shadows Off A Dream?
I want to say that this is my favorite album for Jordan.
I want to say that this is my favorite album for Jordan.
I can definitely see that. While my love for DT12 has definitely faded and I'm left thinking it feels kind of plastic-y and soulless, I think that this is the most even distribution of JR that we've heard. He's rarely "in-your-face-experimental" like he has been in the past, and yet he still has enough time to solo and accompany the music in a distinguished way. :tup
I want to say that this is my favorite album for Jordan.
I can definitely see that. While my love for DT12 has definitely faded and I'm left thinking it feels kind of plastic-y and soulless, I think that this is the most even distribution of JR that we've heard. He's rarely "in-your-face-experimental" like he has been in the past, and yet he still has enough time to solo and accompany the music in a distinguished way. :tup
Metropolis Part 2?
I want to say that this is my favorite album for Jordan.
I can definitely see that. While my love for DT12 has definitely faded and I'm left thinking it feels kind of plastic-y and soulless, I think that this is the most even distribution of JR that we've heard. He's rarely "in-your-face-experimental" like he has been in the past, and yet he still has enough time to solo and accompany the music in a distinguished way. :tup
Metropolis Part 2?
Any album that includes BTL's horn solo can not be classified as without excess experimental qualities.
I want to say that this is my favorite album for Jordan.
I can definitely see that. While my love for DT12 has definitely faded and I'm left thinking it feels kind of plastic-y and soulless, I think that this is the most even distribution of JR that we've heard. He's rarely "in-your-face-experimental" like he has been in the past, and yet he still has enough time to solo and accompany the music in a distinguished way. :tup
Metropolis Part 2?
Any album that includes BTL's horn solo can not be classified as without excess experimental qualities.
So you slight a whole CD based on a minutes worth of music? Should the most well known and popular band in progressive metal NOT be experimental? :P
So you slight a whole CD based on a minutes worth of music? Should the most well known and popular band in progressive metal NOT be experimental? :P
Oh absolutely not! Let me restate that I enjoy SFAM much more than DT12 overall. But my point is that I enjoy JR's playing more on DT12 than SFAM, with BTL's solo being an example as to why I would say that. There are no moments on DT12 of JR's playing that I dislike (feel free to point some out, this is off the top of head) and I cannot say the same for SFAM.
So you slight a whole CD based on a minutes worth of music? Should the most well known and popular band in progressive metal NOT be experimental? :P
Oh absolutely not! Let me restate that I enjoy SFAM much more than DT12 overall. But my point is that I enjoy JR's playing more on DT12 than SFAM, with BTL's solo being an example as to why I would say that. There are no moments on DT12 of JR's playing that I dislike (feel free to point some out, this is off the top of head) and I cannot say the same for SFAM.
We have different tastes then. While I do love Jordan's simpler more melodic musical passages, it's his penchant for experimentation and virtuosity that make him stand out.
BTL's instrumental section is my favorite part of the whole album.
Still, though, at this point, I don't really think DT have any more "drastic" changes coming. They're pretty comfortable where they are, and I don't see that changing.This, unfortunately. :-\
Eh, sometimes I think DT need to forget everything they've done in the past, and write without thinking about their past works.
They should try some more ambient works a la the intro of Trial of Tears and Someone Like Him. How about some jazz? Obviously they shouldn't make an album each of these styles, but I would love to see them actually experiment.
No it's not. Even amazing bands can slip by the occasional stinker, even DT.Says the guy who hates second half of Awake.
Point proven. DT have some stinkers! :biggrin:
No it's not. Even amazing bands can slip by the occasional stinker, even DT.Says the guy who hates second half of Awake.
Point proven. DT have some stinkers! :biggrin:
...Eh. I can't listen to Awake after the first three songs. :dunno:
That is rather funny, given that Awake in my favorite album and those are literally my least 2 favorite songs on it. :lol
That is rather funny, given that Awake in my favorite album and those are literally my least 2 favorite songs on it. :lol
Exactly what I'm saying! :lol I generally seem to like the shorter and more accessible tracks more than the prog fans do. And then I like some of the longer and proggy stuff a lot less than the prog fans do. Different strokes. :)
Personally, I think Six Degrees had some of Jordan's best work.
That is rather funny, given that Awake in my favorite album and those are literally my least 2 favorite songs on it. :lol
Exactly what I'm saying! :lol I generally seem to like the shorter and more accessible tracks more than the prog fans do. And then I like some of the longer and proggy stuff a lot less than the prog fans do. Different strokes. :)
I tend to be a bit the same.
One of my favourite DT moments ever is the guitar outro to Innocence faded.
That is rather funny, given that Awake in my favorite album and those are literally my least 2 favorite songs on it. :lol
Exactly what I'm saying! :lol I generally seem to like the shorter and more accessible tracks more than the prog fans do. And then I like some of the longer and proggy stuff a lot less than the prog fans do. Different strokes. :)
I tend to be a bit the same.
One of my favourite DT moments ever is the guitar outro to Innocence faded.
See, that's a personal conundrum for me because that outro is fantastic. Classic case of great moment stuck in mediocre song.
And blob, I forget: do you like or hate 6:00? Concise and reasonably accessible.
This. I think Top 3 JR albums in no particular are:
ADTOE
SFAM
Six Degrees
I know he did great on DT12 but it's hard to focus on them because the guitars are in your face in the mix.
I think Top 3 JR albums in no particular are::iagree:
ADTOE
SFAM
Six Degrees
I really like it aside from the repetitive samples, but not quite as much as CIAW and IF, which I love. So I do like it for the same reasons, it just happens to have that one thing that makes me not enjoy it as much.
So I'd be happy if the trend of shorter songs on DT12 continues, although I do also like more balance of shorter and longer tracks.
I really like it aside from the repetitive samples, but not quite as much as CIAW and IF, which I love. So I do like it for the same reasons, it just happens to have that one thing that makes me not enjoy it as much.
So I'd be happy if the trend of shorter songs on DT12 continues, although I do also like more balance of shorter and longer tracks.
Fair enough! :tup
Back on topic, I agree with the concept of shorter songs with only a few longer songs sprinkled in, but I almost feel like DT12 forced it. It often feels like each song was mechanically pieced together (or stripped down from something else) to serve a purpose, rather than something organic that grew out creative inputs. Oddly enough, think that the longest song, IT, is the biggest culprit of this, with portions of it feeling nearly obligatory. I still really like DT12, but because of this mechanical and seemingly un-passionate feel, it's beginning to lose its flavor.
I really like it aside from the repetitive samples, but not quite as much as CIAW and IF, which I love. So I do like it for the same reasons, it just happens to have that one thing that makes me not enjoy it as much.
So I'd be happy if the trend of shorter songs on DT12 continues, although I do also like more balance of shorter and longer tracks.
Fair enough! :tup
Back on topic, I agree with the concept of shorter songs with only a few longer songs sprinkled in, but I almost feel like DT12 forced it. It often feels like each song was mechanically pieced together (or stripped down from something else) to serve a purpose, rather than something organic that grew out creative inputs. Oddly enough, think that the longest song, IT, is the biggest culprit of this, with portions of it feeling nearly obligatory. I still really like DT12, but because of this mechanical and seemingly un-passionate feel, it's beginning to lose its flavor.
I actually agree with you concerning DT12. The songs feel a bit too concise in areas, as if some ideas needed more room to breathe, and to be explored further. But I do appreciate that the album isn't long for the sake of filling a disc.
This. I think Top 3 JR albums in no particular are:
ADTOE
SFAM
Six Degrees
I know he did great on DT12 but it's hard to focus on them because the guitars are in your face in the mix.
Totally agree, I think ADTOE, SFAM, and SDOIT are his best. I'll be interested to hear live renditions of some of the DT12 material because his parts on it are, as a whole, fantastic, but like you mentioned the album mix makes it difficult at times to fully appreciate the work he did throughout the record.
I really like it aside from the repetitive samples, but not quite as much as CIAW and IF, which I love. So I do like it for the same reasons, it just happens to have that one thing that makes me not enjoy it as much.
So I'd be happy if the trend of shorter songs on DT12 continues, although I do also like more balance of shorter and longer tracks.
Fair enough! :tup
Back on topic, I agree with the concept of shorter songs with only a few longer songs sprinkled in, but I almost feel like DT12 forced it. It often feels like each song was mechanically pieced together (or stripped down from something else) to serve a purpose, rather than something organic that grew out creative inputs. Oddly enough, think that the longest song, IT, is the biggest culprit of this, with portions of it feeling nearly obligatory. I still really like DT12, but because of this mechanical and seemingly un-passionate feel, it's beginning to lose its flavor.
I actually agree with you concerning DT12. The songs feel a bit too concise in areas, as if some ideas needed more room to breathe, and to be explored further. But I do appreciate that the album isn't long for the sake of filling a disc.
This album may not be the absolute best in DT discography, but I think it will be the greatest album of all to hear in a live setting. I believe it has huge live potential.Indeed. I can already envision the insane amount of energy when they blast into TEI after the epic intro, when the whole crowd sings along at the chorus of AFTR or when James majestically comes back after the orchestra break...."Mothers for their children". Goosebumps.
I believe this album has the strongest lyrics of any DT album. I just find them so inspiring and uplifting. The words on this album are like words to live by. Simply brilliant from start to finish lyrically.
Eh, sometimes I think DT need to forget everything they've done in the past, and write without thinking about their past works.
"Dream Theater" isn't exactly a name that registers to me as a metal band. They should try some more ambient works a la the intro of Trial of Tears and Someone Like Him. How about some jazz? Obviously they shouldn't make an album each of these styles, but I would love to see them actually experiment.
I don't know if I could give any youtube examples simply because I don't generally go out of my way to listen to jazz, but the first thing that comes to mind is the jazzy section in Haken's Cockroach King
:sad:
Oh, wow. I thought I was the only one on this entire forum that thinks Haken is just awful.Not entirely awful but definitely the most overrated of the bands we've collectively gushed over.
Oh, wow. I thought I was the only one on this entire forum that thinks Haken is just awful.
Oh, wow. I thought I was the only one on this entire forum that thinks Haken is just awful.Not entirely awful but definitely the most overrated of the bands we've collectively gushed over.
I don't know if I could give any youtube examples simply because I don't generally go out of my way to listen to jazz, but the first thing that comes to mind is the jazzy section in Haken's Cockroach King
I'm not listening to that song again.
Hey, I think Haken are OK.
But look up "cringeworthy" in the dictionary, and Cockroach King is there.
We should rename this thread, "What are your thoughts on Haken?" :lol
But seriously.
Cockroach King is the second worst song on the album.
We should rename this thread, "What are your thoughts on Haken?" :lol
But seriously.
Cockroach King is the second worst song on the album.
Still better than most of the songs on DT12 though.
We should rename this thread, "What are your thoughts on Haken?" :lol
But seriously.
Cockroach King is the second worst song on the album.
Still better than most of the songs on DT12 though.
We should rename this thread, "What are your thoughts on Haken?" :lol
But seriously.
Cockroach King is the second worst song on the album.
Still better than most of the songs on DT12 though.
(https://cdn.niketalk.com/1/16/164d263f_ibxFWGla38dwbC.gif)
I know I should keep these opinions out of the DT side, but I agree that Cockroach > DT12. But it's just, like, personal opinion, man.
Well, yeah, I don't mean like Hell's Kitchen awful, or even Eve awful. But, yeah, "meh" and "overrated" about sum it up.Yep. This. :coolio
Hey, I think Haken are OK.I like it, reminds me of Gentle Giant. Other than that, I don't care too much for Haken and I don't get their universal appeal.
But look up "cringeworthy" in the dictionary, and Cockroach King is there.
To me, The Looking Glass, Enigma Machine, and Along for the Ride have all become "meh" to me. I enjoy them when they're playing but I don't really go out of my way to listen to them, especially The Looking Glass.
I like it, reminds me of Gentle Giant. Other than that, I don't care too much for Haken and I don't get their universal appeal.
Okay, let's use some common sense here man, he obviously meant within the prog world.
I like it, reminds me of Gentle Giant. Other than that, I don't care too much for Haken and I don't get their universal appeal.
Universal? Come now, they aren't Adele, and even she isn't universal.
Before this thread I didn't know what HAKEN is.
Also that Cockroach King song is outright awful.
I don't know what HAKEN is either, but Haken is a pretty cool guy. :p
Before this thread I didn't know what HAKEN is.
Also that Cockroach King song is outright awful.
Also that Cockroach King song is outright awful.
Agreed completely. It's one of those moments where, even though I hate this attitude, I just have to tear my cans off, or else put something else on.
Also that Cockroach King song is outright awful.
I'd love to know how anyone thought that the vocal section that starts around 6:10 was a good idea. That is one of those "I can't believe they recorded that and put it in a song" moments. Sad, too, cause musically the song is good, but the corniness of pretty much all of the vocal sections just makes the song not good.
Also that Cockroach King song is outright awful.
I'd love to know how anyone thought that the vocal section that starts around 6:10 was a good idea. That is one of those "I can't believe they recorded that and put it in a song" moments. Sad, too, cause musically the song is good, but the corniness of pretty much all of the vocal sections just makes the song not good.
Cockroach King definitely is polarizing, so go try Atlas Stone, or, for more DT influence, Falling Back to Earth. Visions is also very good.I've heard Visions already, but it didn't really blow me away. I guess their music is just too wacky for my taste.
It was an "Instant Classic' for me. :tup It has become my most played album out of all the music i have from different bands. It made my 2013 wonderful and I'm not bored with. This is how every album should me made. People who are not listening to it due to any reason are missing on the best album. It's their loss so no worries. And I'm happy that I'm not that one unlucky. :xbones
I thanked everyone again and again on twitter to every band member, so now here's again a big thank you to Dream Theater for a masterpiece album, you guys are fucking amazing, you guys saved me in my darkest hour. This album is gonna make a history and you, I, ours kids gonna love it for sure. They're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.
I wish i have 12 thumbs to say thumbs up for DT12. :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup
It was an "Instant Classic' for me. :tup It has become my most played album out of all the music i have from different bands. It made my 2013 wonderful and I'm not bored with. This is how every album should me made. People who are not listening to it due to any reason are missing on the best album. It's their loss so no worries. And I'm happy that I'm not that one unlucky. :xbones
I thanked everyone again and again on twitter to every band member, so now here's again a big thank you to Dream Theater for a masterpiece album, you guys are fucking amazing, you guys saved me in my darkest hour. This album is gonna make a history and you, I, ours kids gonna love it for sure. They're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.
I wish i have 12 thumbs to say thumbs up for DT12. :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup
Nice to hear that you like the album and welcome! :D
I'd love to like the album, but it just doesn't do anything to me :(
Love your enthusiasm - and welcome.
I can't say that I play DT12 all the time but I haven't tired of it - certainly in my Top 5 DT albums. I just wish it didn't sound so shite when played back to back with I&W , FII etc...
Love your enthusiasm - and welcome.
I can't say that I play DT12 all the time but I haven't tired of it - certainly in my Top 5 DT albums. I just wish it didn't sound so shite when played back to back with I&W , FII etc...
thanks and it didn't sound shit :D
i will try :metalLove your enthusiasm - and welcome.
I can't say that I play DT12 all the time but I haven't tired of it - certainly in my Top 5 DT albums. I just wish it didn't sound so shite when played back to back with I&W , FII etc...
thanks and it didn't sound shit :D
I was referring to the production quality , not the songs. Get a crystal clear CD like Falling Into Infinity or Images and Words and play it back to back with Dt12 on a good stereo and you'll notice the difference.
It was an "Instant Classic' for me. :tup It has become my most played album out of all the music i have from different bands. It made my 2013 wonderful and I'm not bored with. This is how every album should me made. People who are not listening to it due to any reason are missing on the best album. It's their loss so no worries. And I'm happy that I'm not that one unlucky. :xbones
I thanked everyone again and again on twitter to every band member, so now here's again a big thank you to Dream Theater for a masterpiece album, you guys are fucking amazing, you guys saved me in my darkest hour. This album is gonna make a history and you, I, ours kids gonna love it for sure. They're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.
I wish i have 12 thumbs to say thumbs up for DT12. :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup
thank you! Yes indeed :)It was an "Instant Classic' for me. :tup It has become my most played album out of all the music i have from different bands. It made my 2013 wonderful and I'm not bored with. This is how every album should me made. People who are not listening to it due to any reason are missing on the best album. It's their loss so no worries. And I'm happy that I'm not that one unlucky. :xbones
I thanked everyone again and again on twitter to every band member, so now here's again a big thank you to Dream Theater for a masterpiece album, you guys are fucking amazing, you guys saved me in my darkest hour. This album is gonna make a history and you, I, ours kids gonna love it for sure. They're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.
I wish i have 12 thumbs to say thumbs up for DT12. :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup
Yaaaaaaaaaay!!!!! Welcome to the family Haceeb!!! Agree with everything you said, the album is beyond awesome!!!!
It was an "Instant Classic' for me. :tup It has become my most played album out of all the music i have from different bands. It made my 2013 wonderful and I'm not bored with. This is how every album should me made. People who are not listening to it due to any reason are missing on the best album. It's their loss so no worries. And I'm happy that I'm not that one unlucky. :xbones
I thanked everyone again and again on twitter to every band member, so now here's again a big thank you to Dream Theater for a masterpiece album, you guys are fucking amazing, you guys saved me in my darkest hour. This album is gonna make a history and you, I, ours kids gonna love it for sure. They're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.
I wish i have 12 thumbs to say thumbs up for DT12. :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup
True, only few tracks are my favorite in any band's album but all tracks are my favorite in DT12.....it never happened before. :)It was an "Instant Classic' for me. :tup It has become my most played album out of all the music i have from different bands. It made my 2013 wonderful and I'm not bored with. This is how every album should me made. People who are not listening to it due to any reason are missing on the best album. It's their loss so no worries. And I'm happy that I'm not that one unlucky. :xbones
I thanked everyone again and again on twitter to every band member, so now here's again a big thank you to Dream Theater for a masterpiece album, you guys are fucking amazing, you guys saved me in my darkest hour. This album is gonna make a history and you, I, ours kids gonna love it for sure. They're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.
I wish i have 12 thumbs to say thumbs up for DT12. :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup :tup
This! :) I listened to this album almost every day for a month and then still kept listening to it regulary for another month or two and it was still fresh and awesome definitely top 3 album for me. Nowadays it isn't as fresh anymore but it's still awesome.
Yeah production could be better but it's not as bad as some people say it's okay IMO.
They're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.It's a recurring shower fantasy of mine how much I envy those people who'll listen to 2112 in 2112.
They're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.It's a recurring shower fantasy of mine how much I envy those people who'll listen to 2112 in 2112.
same here >:(They're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.It's a recurring shower fantasy of mine how much I envy those people who'll listen to 2112 in 2112.
They're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.It's a recurring shower fantasy of mine how much I envy those people who'll listen to 2112 in 2112.
They're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.It's a recurring shower fantasy of mine how much I envy those people who'll listen to 2112 in 2112.
scary man scary :omg: we should bury Dream Theater discographies at different locations around the world for future generationsThey're gonna play DT12 even in 2112 and beyond.It's a recurring shower fantasy of mine how much I envy those people who'll listen to 2112 in 2112.
By then, the Priests won't have time for those ancient ways! The computers of the hallowed halls of the Temples of Syrinx will set what music and media people will listen to. There won't even be any guitars!!!
-Marc.
If they dropped Surrender To Reason and Along For The Ride from the album, it would be MUCH better, I reckon! Sure, we'd have a 50 minute album, but all the fat would be trimmed. Perhaps something like this:
If they dropped Surrender To Reason and Along For The Ride from the album, it would be MUCH better, I reckon! Sure, we'd have a 50 minute album, but all the fat would be trimmed. Perhaps something like this:
1. False Awakening Suite
2. The Enemy Inside
3. Enigma Machine
4. The Bigger Picture
5. Behind The Veil
6. The Looking Glass
7. Illumination Theory
If they dropped Surrender To Reason and Along For The Ride from the album, it would be MUCH better, I reckon! Sure, we'd have a 50 minute album, but all the fat would be trimmed. Perhaps something like this:
1. False Awakening Suite
2. The Enemy Inside
3. Enigma Machine
4. The Bigger Picture
5. Behind The Veil
6. The Looking Glass
7. Illumination Theory
I got the album at Christmas and it's been on regular rotation in my car since.
Maybe I'm getting old or something but I'm not feeling the magic as much. I still thinks it's a strong album though but it does kind of feel a bit formulaic.
I like IT as the stand out track. But, as nice as the string section is I don't understand why it's there other than - because they can put it there.
I don't think it's the worst but I prefer ADTOE.
Do not get me going on the production. It's suffocating. ADTOE had better production. I preferred the tone of the guitar and the drum sound. The constant "pshht" sound on the snare on DT12 is a bit distracting for me. All the toms (not the octo wotsits - the kit toms) seem to sound the same pitch.
Good - not great - not bad.
All the toms (not the octo wotsits - the kit toms) seem to sound the same pitch.Yeah, in some of the faster fills it's hard to tell the toms, the snare and the kick apart, they're all so similar in tone.
4. The Enigma MachineI'm starting to think people do this intentionally. :\
Very disappointed, vocal effects everywhere, that alone puts me off it, too formulaic, just guitar fest and the drum sounds are awful... Never listen to it, must have listened to the album around 3 times.
Very disappointed, vocal effects everywhere, that alone puts me off it, too formulaic, just guitar fest and the drum sounds are awful... Never listen to it, must have listened to the album around 3 times.
so what you're saying is you don't like the album? :lol
Oh, we're already talking about chopping the album up? OK. here's what I'd do.
1. The Illumination Theory - Just the Ambient / Tchaikovsky section
2. The Enemy Inside
3. The Looking Glass
4. The Enigma Machine
5. The Bigger Picture
6. Behind the Veil
7. Surrender to Reason
8. Along for the Ride
9. The Illumination Theory - Outro
Overall album run time - about 50 minutes
Sorry guys, but The Illumination Theory just doesn't feel right to me. I can either chop it up like this, or get rid of completely, but I can't accept it as is :P
I haven't listened to the album in about a month, and coming back to it yesterday, I still stand by my opinion that it's a classic DT album. Top 5 worthy.i agree with you............it's the best DT album
The ambient, orchestral and easter-egg outro parts of Illumination Theory are the parts that ruin the song...
The ambient, orchestral and easter-egg outro parts of Illumination Theory are the parts that ruin the song...How can the Easter egg ruin the song when it's not part of it?
The ambient, orchestral and easter-egg outro parts of Illumination Theory are the parts that ruin the song...How can the Easter egg ruin the song when it's not part of it?
I got the album at Christmas and it's been on regular rotation in my car since.
Maybe I'm getting old or something but I'm not feeling the magic as much. I still thinks it's a strong album though but it does kind of feel a bit formulaic.
I like IT as the stand out track. But, as nice as the string section is I don't understand why it's there other than - because they can put it there.
I don't think it's the worst but I prefer ADTOE.
Do not get me going on the production. It's suffocating. ADTOE had better production. I preferred the tone of the guitar and the drum sound. The constant "pshht" sound on the snare on DT12 is a bit distracting for me. All the toms (not the octo wotsits - the kit toms) seem to sound the same pitch.
Good - not great - not bad.
All of this.
2. If you don't like the album why you're still a DT fan.
3. If you're confirmed about weaknesses of DT12 then why don't you make a perfect album.
4. All hater's should make a album which can amaze DT members and they become your fan.
1. It's my favorite DT and also my album of 2013.
2. If you don't like the album why you're still a DT fan.
3. If you're confirmed about weaknesses of DT12 then why don't you make a perfect album.
4. All hater's should make a album which can amaze DT members and they become your fan.
5. If you think DT lineup is not good why don't you guys make a perfect band.
6. I love DT, i love their decisions, i love current lineup and i know they're perfect.
7. If they're that bad then start listening to A7X, 1D or bieber. :xbones
8. DTvarium till death!
Well a lot of those don't make sense and are illogical.:chill :chill
Well a lot of those don't make sense and are illogical.Pretty much this.
I'm confirmed about weaknesses of DT12. Guess I'd better go make a perfect album...How about a collaboration? I need to make a perfect album too.
Well a lot of those don't make sense and are illogical.:chill :chill
I'm confirmed about weaknesses of DT12. Guess I'd better go make a perfect album...How about a collaboration? I need to make a perfect album too.
i will criticize it to this extend too don't worry :metalI'm confirmed about weaknesses of DT12. Guess I'd better go make a perfect album...How about a collaboration? I need to make a perfect album too.
but i want your perfect album now ;DI'm confirmed about weaknesses of DT12. Guess I'd better go make a perfect album...How about a collaboration? I need to make a perfect album too.
Cool. Think you could handle, like, everything? I have no musical skill whatsoever.
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md30nyAXRz1r1mr1po1_500.gif)I'm confirmed about weaknesses of DT12. Guess I'd better go make a perfect album...How about a collaboration? I need to make a perfect album too.
Cool. Think you could handle, like, everything? I have no musical skill whatsoever.
Yeah, but then you'll have to go and make an even more perfect album, or your opinion will be invalid.no i don't need to 'cause i believe in DT, you guys should 'cause you don't like DT12 :xbones
*snip*I'm confirmed about weaknesses of DT12. Guess I'd better go make a perfect album...How about a collaboration? I need to make a perfect album too.
Cool. Think you could handle, like, everything? I have no musical skill whatsoever.
Haceeb, can you criticize this please:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MCxrlJh_gs
Haceeb, can you criticize this please:I have no idea about this band : KROTCHRAUT but seems okay to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MCxrlJh_gs
Haceeb, can you criticize this please:I have no idea about this band : KROTCHRAUT but seems okay to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MCxrlJh_gs
Haceeb, can you criticize this please:What the hell is that :rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MCxrlJh_gs
I have no idea about this band : KROTCHRAUT but seems okay to me:rollin
I'm not getting this inside joke but i guess this is what happens when you not criticize DTHaceeb, can you criticize this please:I have no idea about this band : KROTCHRAUT but seems okay to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MCxrlJh_gs
(https://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/210/519/tumblr_lvhuuq55N71qhoyau.jpg)
Haceeb, can you criticize this please:What the hell is that :rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MCxrlJh_gs
You should really travel to Hoogeveen, Holland, close to where my parents live. There's a small venue here (max 100-200 people) that hosts Metal Nights once a month. You'll probably get everyone headbanging anyway :PI have no idea about this band : KROTCHRAUT but seems okay to me:rollin
You should really travel to Hoogeveen, Holland, close to where my parents live. There's a small venue here (max 100-200 people) that hosts Metal Nights once a month. You'll probably get everyone headbanging anyway :Pthat is actually true.
no i haven't heard, seems interesting. can't say bad or great at the moment ;DHaceeb, can you criticize this please:What the hell is that :rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MCxrlJh_gs
You should really travel to Hoogeveen, Holland, close to where my parents live. There's a small venue here (max 100-200 people) that hosts Metal Nights once a month. You'll probably get everyone headbanging anyway :PI have no idea about this band : KROTCHRAUT but seems okay to me:rollin
That's my band. You haven't heard of us? We're the #1 Plague Metal band of all time!
But really, that particular mix is beyond terrible, and believe it of not, it can sound better.
2. If you don't like the album why you're still a DT fan.
3. If you're confirmed about weaknesses of DT12 then why don't you make a perfect album.
4. All hater's should make a album which can amaze DT members and they become your fan.
5. If you think DT lineup is not good why don't you guys make a perfect band.
6. I love DT, i love their decisions, i love current lineup and i know they're perfect.
7. If they're that bad then start listening to A7X, 1D or bieber. :xbones
i guess you're the only one sane person here :tup2. If you don't like the album why you're still a DT fan.
3. If you're confirmed about weaknesses of DT12 then why don't you make a perfect album.
4. All hater's should make a album which can amaze DT members and they become your fan.
5. If you think DT lineup is not good why don't you guys make a perfect band.
6. I love DT, i love their decisions, i love current lineup and i know they're perfect.
7. If they're that bad then start listening to A7X, 1D or bieber. :xbones
I don't know why am I still a DT fan. I am confirmed about weakness, but can I not make perfect album. I guess I guys must make perfect band. Back to 1D and Bieber for me.
It is possible to still like DT even though you dislike an album. So DT12 isn't an album I like. It's not a big deal. It's not like I've sworn off the band and condemned them. They have already proven themselves to me. I respect their decisions even if they don't cater to me personally. They are still a great band.
Ah, another marvelous metal genre I have yet to discover! Sometimes I gaze upon this world in wonder; I am truly astounded by the magnificent creations of our glorious race!
But seriously,You should really travel to Hoogeveen, Holland, close to where my parents live. There's a small venue here (max 100-200 people) that hosts Metal Nights once a month. You'll probably get everyone headbanging anyway :Pthat is actually true.
1. It's my favorite DT and also my album of 2013.
2. If you don't like the album why you're still a DT fan.
3. If you're confirmed about weaknesses of DT12 then why don't you make a perfect album.
4. All hater's should make a album which can amaze DT members and they become your fan.
5. If you think DT lineup is not good why don't you guys make a perfect band.
6. I love DT, i love their decisions, i love current lineup and i know they're perfect.
7. If they're that bad then start listening to A7X, 1D or bieber. :xbones
8. DTvarium till death!
I have no idea why you have to defend DT12 so much Haceeb. It's great that you love it, as it means that DT still has the ability to impress some fans.i agree it's not their cup of tea but you can't deny Prog Mag rating and it isn't even included in Eddie Trunks list so now you know where the hate is coming from. Also consider two grammy nominations.
But for some people it's just not their cup of tea or they might just not like the songwriting. It doesn't mean because they don't like the latest album they have to stop listening to DT or create their own perfect album or anything.
I wasn't trolling that's for sure. yeah true KrotchRaut FTW!Ah, another marvelous metal genre I have yet to discover! Sometimes I gaze upon this world in wonder; I am truly astounded by the magnificent creations of our glorious race!
But seriously,You should really travel to Hoogeveen, Holland, close to where my parents live. There's a small venue here (max 100-200 people) that hosts Metal Nights once a month. You'll probably get everyone headbanging anyway :Pthat is actually true.
Do the people there care much about playing ability, 'cause.... We have none.
back to Dream Theater and this:1. It's my favorite DT and also my album of 2013.
2. If you don't like the album why you're still a DT fan.
3. If you're confirmed about weaknesses of DT12 then why don't you make a perfect album.
4. All hater's should make a album which can amaze DT members and they become your fan.
5. If you think DT lineup is not good why don't you guys make a perfect band.
6. I love DT, i love their decisions, i love current lineup and i know they're perfect.
7. If they're that bad then start listening to A7X, 1D or bieber. :xbones
8. DTvarium till death!
Assuming you aren't trolling:
1. That's great.
2. Huh? people can dislike the new album but still love their back catalog.
3. This is a retarded YouTube style comment. A person doesn't have to be an expert guitar player to critique an expert's guitar playing.
4. Same as above, and really, this doesn't make sense.
5. I have. KrotchRaut anyone?
6. That's great.
7. A7X, 1D and Bieber walk into a bar...
8. Enter the brutal KrotchRaut!
So, it got a good rating in a magazine and a Grammy nomination, plus Eddie Trunk didn't mention it, therefore it's perfect?
So, it got a good rating in a magazine and a Grammy nomination, plus Eddie Trunk didn't mention it, therefore it's perfect?First i liked it and then these institutions also expressed the same thought. I wish eddie trunk was my friend 'cause i want to be famous too :)
I've said before I don't like it... But does that mean I'm not a DT fan? No, let's be serious, do you love WDADU?i love WDADU and every DT album...
Also if ratingsm and Grammy meant anything nicki Minaj and beiber would be the best musicians in the world,,,
After living with this album for some time I will say that the music is great the mix is ok but the mastering has ruined this album for me. >:( :angry:
poof and problem solved. :tupAfter living with this album for some time I will say that the music is great the mix is ok but the mastering has ruined this album for me. >:( :angry:
Get the HD tracks version.
poof and problem solved. :tupAfter living with this album for some time I will say that the music is great the mix is ok but the mastering has ruined this album for me. >:( :angry:
Get the HD tracks version.
sorry guys i was wrong, you guys can't back Dream Theater so why would you back me....... :loser:
I don't see how that post is very different from something you'd see any given Bieber fan post in response to criticism. Just because someone doesn't like every single second of music a band has produced doesn't mean that person isn't a huge fan and doesn't appreciate their music. You can't just assume everything DT has made is flawless because DT made it. Bliiiiind faith, we have in you...This.
WTF is going on here? :lolI don't see how that post is very different from something you'd see any given Bieber fan post in response to criticism. Just because someone doesn't like every single second of music a band has produced doesn't mean that person isn't a huge fan and doesn't appreciate their music. You can't just assume everything DT has made is flawless because DT made it. Bliiiiind faith, we have in you...This.
:lolpalm:Same here, but it's one of my least favourite DT albums.
In all seriousness, I do like DT12. It still hasn't quite clicked with me in the way that DT's other albums have, and nothing on it really blows me away, but it's consistently very good.
Do the people there care much about playing ability, 'cause.... We have none.Nope, they don't!
BANG AND THE DIRT IS GONE.:lol
*snip*
Got tired of it then went back to it. A few times! My opinion has fluctuated a lot on this one.
Dodgy drum sounds and compression aside, if I omit False Awakening Suite (Pointless, lifeless, forgettable), Bigger Picture (A song about struggling to be a music producer. Hmm... Fitting but not inspiring.) Behind The Veil (Yaaaaaaaaaawn - this may be the dullest DT chorus ever.) and Illumination Theory (V nearly but not quite great with them hammy lyrics and orchestra break. Amazing vocals, tho.) I really enjoy it.
Enemy Inside, Looking Glass and Enigma Machine would have blown me away had the drum sounds/mastering/mix been different.
That's where it sits for me right now. Quite favourably.
Got tired of it then went back to it. A few times! My opinion has fluctuated a lot on this one.
Dodgy drum sounds and compression aside, if I omit False Awakening Suite (Pointless, lifeless, forgettable), Bigger Picture (A song about struggling to be a music producer. Hmm... Fitting but not inspiring.) Behind The Veil (Yaaaaaaaaaawn - this may be the dullest DT chorus ever.) and Illumination Theory (V nearly but not quite great with them hammy lyrics and orchestra break. Amazing vocals, tho.) I really enjoy it.
Enemy Inside, Looking Glass and Enigma Machine would have blown me away had the drum sounds/mastering/mix been different.
That's where it sits for me right now. Quite favourably.
I could not disagree more. After a year (or however long its been) listening to listening to this record its easily one of my all time favorite DT albums and an absolute top 5 album career wise in my eyes! I love it and I still can't get enough of it.Got tired of it then went back to it. A few times! My opinion has fluctuated a lot on this one.
Dodgy drum sounds and compression aside, if I omit False Awakening Suite (Pointless, lifeless, forgettable), Bigger Picture (A song about struggling to be a music producer. Hmm... Fitting but not inspiring.) Behind The Veil (Yaaaaaaaaaawn - this may be the dullest DT chorus ever.) and Illumination Theory (V nearly but not quite great with them hammy lyrics and orchestra break. Amazing vocals, tho.) I really enjoy it.
Enemy Inside, Looking Glass and Enigma Machine would have blown me away had the drum sounds/mastering/mix been different.
That's where it sits for me right now. Quite favourably.
Pretty much this!
I remember back when DT12 was released, i had one of the most negative opinions of this album. I listened to it a few times recently, and ended up with pretty much the same conclusion as the Doctor here.
Its enjoyable, and deserves to be called Dream Theater. However its still lightyears behind their best work, and there is much room for improvement for the new DT album in 2015.
Still love it but I don't listen to it as much. Then again, I don't listen to DT as much (just the natural phase after binging on them for a while).Its a 10 times better album than BC&SL! IMO.
The great thing about this album is that I don't need to be in any mood to listen to the album. BC&SL I definitely do have to be in the right mood.
My opinion hasn't changed at all with this release. I'm still very impressed with it and it's still behind I & W for my favorite release from DT.
Its enjoyable, and deserves to be called Dream Theater. However its still lightyears behind their best work, and there is much room for improvement for the new DT album in 2015.
Out of all their albums - DT12 got old the fastest for me. I listen to ADTOE more.
Out of all their albums - DT12 got old the fastest for me. I listen to ADTOE more.
Well, see, initially the second marriage was awesome. But then the honeymoon period wore off and it was back to business to keep the marriage happy. So DT is trying to do that kinky thing that made years 7-15 (I&W-SFaM) of the first marriage so so good (even if it did start to get a bit repetitive around the tenth anniversary). However, with the second wife, this kinky thing isn't quite the same, no matter how much you try to say it is. It's still loads of fun, yet still a bit boring and predictable.
This is probably a really weird thought, but I feel like the lack of an album title sacrificed the album of some personality. Like an album title gives you an initial vibe and kind of feel for the album... But "Dream Theater," being a name we've known for so long, doesn't really have any resonance or meaning besides the whole "redefining ourselves" thing when it comes to an album title. It just kind of feels like a collection of songs more than an album (but that's going a bit far).
This is probably a really weird thought, but I feel like the lack of an album title sacrificed the album of some personality. Like an album title gives you an initial vibe and kind of feel for the album... But "Dream Theater," being a name we've known for so long, doesn't really have any resonance or meaning besides the whole "redefining ourselves" thing when it comes to an album title. It just kind of feels like a collection of songs more than an album (but that's going a bit far).
It should've been called The Guiding Light or something else of optical nature.
It should've been called The Guiding Light or something else of optical nature.
I don't think naming their album after a soap opera would have been a wise choice.
Blech, I knew that sounded familiar. Oh well, some other reinforcement of the optical motif then.It should've been called The Guiding Light or something else of optical nature.
I don't think naming their album after a soap opera would have been a wise choice.
It should've been called The Guiding Light or something else of optical nature.
I don't think naming their album after a soap opera would have been a wise choice.
MY MOM DID, NOT ME
I don't think it is still on the air.
I could be wrong.
Thanks hefdaddy for the facts!:tup
With the exception of the precedent of The Beatles and Metallica, I always think that a self titled album (even debut) is a big missed opportunity. I enjoy the cleverness and originality of an album title and its concept. The self-titled route is safe and ho-hum. Having said that, I understand the statement that DT was trying to make with DT12 -- still it leaves much room to be desired (and some interesting artwork would not have hurt either).
I like every song except the enemy inside. I always skip this song when i'm listening. Personally for this album I prefer surrender to reason the most. Actually this album gives me a feeling that both DT and I are rejuvenated.
The whole album was a slow grower, from really meh to "Hey this is pretty good!"
Then it faded back into the shadows of mediocrity IMO
Why wouldn't they?The whole album was a slow grower, from really meh to "Hey this is pretty good!"
Then it faded back into the shadows of mediocrity IMO
Yeahhh, same here. I wonder what the band NOW thinks of it. They were so proud of it initially. Do you think they feel the same now?
The whole album was a slow grower, from really meh to "Hey this is pretty good!"
Then it faded back into the shadows of mediocrity IMO
Yeahhh, same here. I wonder what the band NOW thinks of it. They were so proud of it initially. Do you think they feel the same now?
The whole album was a slow grower, from really meh to "Hey this is pretty good!"
Then it faded back into the shadows of mediocrity IMO
Yeahhh, same here. I wonder what the band NOW thinks of it. They were so proud of it initially. Do you think they feel the same now?
I sometimes wonder that in general. Imagine having to play the same tunes for the next two decades. It must be hard to generate any kind of excitement for some of the tunes.
You keep the passion for the sake of the fans. Playing with enthusiasm and striving for perfection every time. The paycheck isn't the priority, the fans are because without them there is no paycheck. I like what Neal Peart said in the Rush Doc Behind The Lighted Stage. "People ask me, don't you ever get tired of playing Tom Sawyer? No, because it's difficult to play and everytime I play it right, it makes me feel good." :)That's true. The challenging level of difficulty of the songs has to make it rewarding.
Bass fuzz?
Whatever you wanna call it, I get excited when I can actually hear the bass at all so I say crank up the fuzz on the bass.
I'm listening to it now for the first time in a few months and I love it even more than I did. For me its the best they've done in a long time, at least since Six Degrees but I might even like it more than that album.This, 100%
Little different take on the topic. Curious to know what songs have improved and likewise declined for DTF'ers since release. Most of my first loves have remained, but TEI has fallen a bit for me and EM and BTV have risen immensely over time.
AFTR - I was almost enjoying this song until the old familiar JR patch kicked in. That ruined for me. Just lazy on JR's part. The rest is pretty generic.
AFTR - I was almost enjoying this song until the old familiar JR patch kicked in. That ruined for me. Just lazy on JR's part. The rest is pretty generic.
I've never understood why people say this kind of thing. Petrucci's lead tone is the same for almost every solo and nobody complains but when Rudess uses a similar-sounding lead tone he gets bitched at for it. Why?
Pretty much every guitar player has "their signature sound" and use it almost exclusively except for some odd sections. That's how we can identify so easily even if 20 different "famous" players played the same simple song (ie. Row Row Row Your Boat) we'd know which one is Satriani, which one is Vai, which one is Petrucci, and so on.
Keyboard players have their sound as well but I'm not as familiar with them. I can identify Derek Sherinians' lead sound easily cuz it's so unique and that seems to be "ok" but Rudess can't use the same lead sound a few times for some reason.
I don't get it.
How are the songs of DT12 doing on stage? Has anyone attended one of the shows of the current tour?Can we discuss setlists now without spoiler warnings?
False Awakening Suite was fucking awesome. The video is super-awesome, and it sends shivers down your spine when you're there. Interestingly, I think on the DVD it won't translate nearly as well.The key is getting the audience reactions to the albums in there.
I think it's something to do with the fact that Petrucci has all round good tone that you wouldn't wanna mess with too much -
- but Rudess has probably hundreds of sounds at his disposal and has used the same lead sound on two songs.
Both of them had guitar-like leads, but Sherinian had a filter effect on his, which made it sound very much like a synth (Trial of Tears solo, for instance). Rudess' Train of Thought lead (the one he uses in his Budokan solo), coupled with the wah-wah sounded so much like a guitar, there was almost no point to be played on a keyboard. His sound improved in that regard later on.
He also had it on 8vm (TROA). The wah isn't a problem in and of itself, it's just a tool, but sounding too much like a guitar is, even if it was fitting for Train of Thought. Derek's lead, despite all that you mentioned, always had a distinct, synth-like character.Both of them had guitar-like leads, but Sherinian had a filter effect on his, which made it sound very much like a synth (Trial of Tears solo, for instance). Rudess' Train of Thought lead (the one he uses in his Budokan solo), coupled with the wah-wah sounded so much like a guitar, there was almost no point to be played on a keyboard. His sound improved in that regard later on.
Rudess only used the wah during the Train of Thought era, when it fitted the intentionally very heavy sound well.
Sherinian always used the wah, including the Trial of Tears solo you mentioned. DS is admittedly heavily inspired by many guitarists, and the guitar approach is much more a signature of his sound than it ever was JR's.
He also had it on 8vm (TROA). The wah isn't a problem in and of itself, it's just a tool, but sounding too much like a guitar is, even if it was fitting for Train of Thought. Derek's lead, despite all that you mentioned, always had a distinct, synth-like character.Both of them had guitar-like leads, but Sherinian had a filter effect on his, which made it sound very much like a synth (Trial of Tears solo, for instance). Rudess' Train of Thought lead (the one he uses in his Budokan solo), coupled with the wah-wah sounded so much like a guitar, there was almost no point to be played on a keyboard. His sound improved in that regard later on.
Rudess only used the wah during the Train of Thought era, when it fitted the intentionally very heavy sound well.
Sherinian always used the wah, including the Trial of Tears solo you mentioned. DS is admittedly heavily inspired by many guitarists, and the guitar approach is much more a signature of his sound than it ever was JR's.
My appreciation for The Enemy Inside actually grew a ton having watched the band play it in person, and I'd say the same for the Looking Glass. A big reason for that was getting to watch MM play those songs, it really brought them to life!
False Awakening Suite was fucking awesome. The video is super-awesome, and it sends shivers down your spine when you're there. Interestingly, I think on the DVD it won't translate nearly as well.
TEI, honestly, is kinda a wash. JP's opening riff is complete muddiness live...
I don't understand why Rudess insists on making his keyboard playing sound like a guitar!
So - how does Illumination Theory work live ?
I always thought that it'd be cool if I.T. ended the first half - the ambient / orchestra section played on the PA then the band came back in at the right moment live for
the second half.
My criticism with JR's lead sounds would be that they are too rich for what he's playing. He likes running up and down the keyboard in his solos, but when the sound is so rich in reverb and other effects, it all just runs together. Hate on KM's simplistic sound all you want, but I know his solos inside out and could probably whistle them. JR's solos, I would probably have to go "whirrwhiirrrbrrrrrrblupblupblup...." :lolI would have agreed with that assessment up until the last 2 albums when there have been a few solos that you could whistle along to - AFTR, BTS and the "solo" before JPs solo in BTV spring to mind. Not sure if that last one is classed as a solo tbh though!
Look at the last album cover here: https://www.metalinjection.net/around-the-interwebs/what-if-metal-album-art-was-more-honest
I know just a few songs have blatant Rush influences, but it made me grin nevertheless :lol
Look at the last album cover here: https://www.metalinjection.net/around-the-interwebs/what-if-metal-album-art-was-more-honest
I know just a few songs have blatant Rush influencesIndeed, but those are as blatant as you can get and probably make DT12 the most Rush influenced of all their albums (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk). The Looking Glass is like a DT version of Limelight, the beginning of Surrender to Reason has the Tom Sawyer synth and The Pursuit of Truth immediately brings Cygnus X-1 to mind.
Yeah, those are the similarities I've noticed as well, and I agree that DT12 has a stronger Rush influence than any other DT album.I know just a few songs have blatant Rush influencesIndeed, but those are as blatant as you can get and probably make DT12 the most Rush influenced of all their albums (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk). The Looking Glass is like a DT version of Limelight, the beginning of Surrender to Reason has the Tom Sawyer synth and The Pursuit of Truth immediately brings Cygnus X-1 to mind.
I love The Enemy Inside. It's one of my favorites on the album.
I think it's one of my favorite DT "heavy" songs too.
Obviously JR has had a lot of guitar-y leads over the years, but I feel like it's more of a fallback for him on heavier music that isn't his natural state, rather than the default as it is for DS. When JR has a chance, he just as often does the moog solo, or the piano break, or any other random instrument you can think of, or whatever new tech he's exploring. When it sounds "guitary", I think it comes more from his pursuit of expressiveness as a musician than the pursuit of guitaryness, which is the case with DS.
Not sure if it was brought up or not, but if JR's lead sounds were beginning to sound like guitars during the TOT-era, then it's likely because the band were looking for that sound. They covered albums by Metallica and Iron Maiden, which both have double guitars, so it's no wonder why they were looking for that sound.
I don't understand why Rudess insists on making his keyboard playing sound like a guitar!
Look at the last album cover here: https://www.metalinjection.net/around-the-interwebs/what-if-metal-album-art-was-more-honest:rollin
I know just a few songs have blatant Rush influences, but it made me grin nevertheless :lol
This.............and I love DT12 and am no huge fan of Rush. :D
I like Rush but am not particularly fond off DTXII.
I love The Enemy Inside. It's one of my favorites on the album.
I think it's one of my favorite DT "heavy" songs too.
I agree. I love it when MM breaks out at the beginning and becomes an animal. I imagine MM turning into a mad chimp in the recording studio, then going crazy, making chimp screams and yells while jumping up and down, all the while beating the drums to death :metal.I'm not sure that's the case. After the auditions I also expected that he would act like that, but he's always calm and somewhat restrained live, apart from making a few funny faces here and there. Admittedly, playing to a click takes its toll on him and he can't completely let himself loose.
I also love JR's keyboard entrance.Me too, although it's much better and way more prominent live compared to the studio version.
Yep, when I met them at the meet and greet, I asked where they got the idea from, and they said "some angry European".
Yep, when I met them at the meet and greet, I asked where they got the idea from, and they said "some angry European".
Lars Ulrich ?
I listened to the album again today, and upon reflecting on it, I have to say, it's still growing on me! I can't think of any other DT album that I loved right off the bat, whose enjoyment didn't plateau for me after a few months. But the more I listen to DT12, the more I enjoy and appreciate it. :metal
I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format.
I'm trying to listen to ADTOE and DT back to back and see what happens. I've never done that before!
By the way, I found myself staring at this:
and headbanging myself right in the middle of THAT riff in Lost Not Forgotten. It was absolutely perfect :lol
Well, that applies to anything in life. If you keep seeing everyday an ugly woman, soon you will end up thinking she is not that ugly. She might become very beautiful in the end of a year!
Well, that applies to anything in life. If you keep seeing everyday an ugly woman, soon you will end up thinking she is not that ugly. She might become very beautiful in the end of a year!
Very interesting!
With me was the other way around. The album went from being a 8/10 to a 6/10.
It didnīt grow on me. It shrank! :lol
Well, that applies to anything in life. If you keep seeing everyday an ugly woman, soon you will end up thinking she is not that ugly. She might become very beautiful in the end of a year!
I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format.
Newsflash! Being a progressive band has nothing to do with changing your sound every album (or at all, for that matter).
Very interesting!
With me was the other way around. The album went from being a 8/10 to a 6/10.
It didnīt grow on me. It shrank! :lol
I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format.
Newsflash! Being a progressive band has nothing to do with changing your sound every album (or at all, for that matter).
I voted Instant classic when this thread was first posted and still feel the same.Ditto.
I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format.
Newsflash! Being a progressive band has nothing to do with changing your sound every album (or at all, for that matter).
That's the way the members themselves define prog though. Evolution of sound.
That's what I remember from a Metal Evolution interview at least.Even if that were true, they can't define what progressive music is anymore than you can.
Along for the Ride, Surrender to Reason, and Enigma Machine seem to be the weakest tracks imo. Most of the times I end up skipping these tracks. I keep returning to The Looking Glass, Illumination Theory, The Bigger Picture and Behind the Veil (which I have appreciated more as of lately).
I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format.
The whole concept of progressive music is very flawed, because it can describe so many things, that nobody's going to agree on what's the one specific quality that defines progressive music.Besides the typical instruments, atmosphere, virtuosity, lengthy and complex songs, progressive music, to me, means that there is progression within a song, it starts out a certain way, then evolves, changes its tone, tempo, time signature, takes you on a journey. That puts the progression in progressive music, not changing the sound every single album, that would be just silly.
I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format.The whole concept of progressive music is very flawed, because it can describe so many things, that nobody's going to agree on what's the one specific quality that defines progressive music.Besides the typical instruments, atmosphere, virtuosity, lengthy and complex songs, progressive music, to me, means that there is progression within a song, it starts out a certain way, then evolves, changes its tone, tempo, time signature, takes you on a journey. That puts the progression in progressive music, not changing the sound every single album, that would be just silly.
I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format.The whole concept of progressive music is very flawed, because it can describe so many things, that nobody's going to agree on what's the one specific quality that defines progressive music.Besides the typical instruments, atmosphere, virtuosity, lengthy and complex songs, progressive music, to me, means that there is progression within a song, it starts out a certain way, then evolves, changes its tone, tempo, time signature, takes you on a journey. That puts the progression in progressive music, not changing the sound every single album, that would be just silly.
I feel like they've stopped being a "progressive" band, and have settled into a very predictable format.The whole concept of progressive music is very flawed, because it can describe so many things, that nobody's going to agree on what's the one specific quality that defines progressive music.Besides the typical instruments, atmosphere, virtuosity, lengthy and complex songs, progressive music, to me, means that there is progression within a song, it starts out a certain way, then evolves, changes its tone, tempo, time signature, takes you on a journey. That puts the progression in progressive music, not changing the sound every single album, that would be just silly.
See? For me personally, that's exactly the one defining characteristic of how I identified Progressive music. If I listen to a song and it starts one way and then builds and changes, and has different themes, and grows into something that's totally different, maybe with hints of the original, that's how I identified progressive music. Or at least switches between different themes throughout. Like, by that definition, songs like Rime of the Ancient Mariner, and even Master of Puppets, are progressive songs, and personally, I'd say they are.
Then I started talking to people, and everyone has their own idea of what "Progressive" means. "The band is progressive, so they always need to experiment and do something that no one has done before, and change their sound to something completely new and different. And if they don't do that, they're not making progressive music anymore, because they're not making the genre progress in a new direction." ::)
Well progressive rock wasn't really a term that described the sound anyway. The early bands had very little in common and had their own distinct sound. Since then, the genre has become a little bit more defined and there are a lot of sound alike bands and in general, most prog groups have a ton of common traits. But that's what happens in any music genre, really. You get a few pioneers to carve out a sound and then a ton follow. Nothing wrong with that and at the end of the day, even the least "progressive" prog is still a pretty big departure from mainstream music.
Dream Theater is one of those bands though that totally came in with their own sound. I&W truly was the first of its kind. And for awhile they were reinventing themselves with every album, so I think it's a valid complaint when someone feels that they aren't doing that. However, I still think they do reinvent themselves to at least some extent every time. No other DT album sounds like DT12.
Well progressive rock wasn't really a term that described the sound anyway. The early bands had very little in common and had their own distinct sound. Since then, the genre has become a little bit more defined and there are a lot of sound alike bands and in general, most prog groups have a ton of common traits. But that's what happens in any music genre, really. You get a few pioneers to carve out a sound and then a ton follow. Nothing wrong with that and at the end of the day, even the least "progressive" prog is still a pretty big departure from mainstream music.
Dream Theater is one of those bands though that totally came in with their own sound. I&W truly was the first of its kind. And for awhile they were reinventing themselves with every album, so I think it's a valid complaint when someone feels that they aren't doing that. However, I still think they do reinvent themselves to at least some extent every time. No other DT album sounds like DT12.
Fates Warning were Queensryche wannabes anyway.I strongly disagree.
Fates Warning were Queensryche wannabes anyway.I strongly disagree.
Me too. QR were always more accessible, although Fates released Parallels and Inside Out, which may be compared to Empire because of the more straightforward songwriting.Fates Warning were Queensryche wannabes anyway.I strongly disagree.
Fates Warning were Queensryche wannabes anyway.
I did the mistake of playing The Enemy Inside after listening to Caught In A Web. How the hell can an album that was released 20 years ago sound so much better than the most recent one?
It's really unbelievable, especially if you are listening with headphones.
I'm curious to know why many people claim that ADToE sounded weak, with too many ballads.
The remaining 3 songs, FFH, TITL, and BTS are very light ballads. But still, 6 of the 9 songs are generally heavy and energetic.
This week sees the 1st anniversary of the release of DT12. It'll be interesting to see how people view the album having had a whole year to digest the songs.
1 year anniversary would mean I haven't listened to it in about a year.
1 year anniversary would mean I haven't listened to it in about a year.
So Optimus Prime's hands are broken?
1 year anniversary would mean I haven't listened to it in about a year.
This week sees the 1st anniversary of the release of DT12. It'll be interesting to see how people view the album having had a whole year to digest the songs.
I'm curious to know why many people claim that ADToE sounded weak, with too many ballads.
Fates Warning were Queensryche wannabes anyway.
Fuck no. People underestimate how important Fates Warning are to the progressive metal genre.
Ok, one year now... Itīs a good time to reflect about the fact that it is a self-titled album.:huh:
After one year, the album did not grow on me. It shrank. I hardly listen to it.
I guess I can say today that the choice of a self-titled album was not the best. A self-titled album that follows many others means that the band wants to deliver a message, something like: this is DT at its best.
Well, it is not! Unless the band has deliberately chosen a different path and we are gonna have more "commercial" albums like this in the future...
like BCSL was way better than SC (and of course people are free to flame me for that opinion :) )
Ok, one year now... Itīs a good time to reflect about the fact that it is a self-titled album.:huh:
After one year, the album did not grow on me. It shrank. I hardly listen to it.
I guess I can say today that the choice of a self-titled album was not the best. A self-titled album that follows many others means that the band wants to deliver a message, something like: this is DT at its best.
Well, it is not! Unless the band has deliberately chosen a different path and we are gonna have more "commercial" albums like this in the future...
The only thing missing is a quarter taped to the needle!
(https://images.rapgenius.com/cqt63li4y604o9k3nzore4i7q.500x350x10.gif)
DT12 would be a really really good album if it was a debut from a new band.
But if it is the 12th album of a band that has put out albums like Imagens & Words, Scenes from a Memory and 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, it is a very weak album that does not stand the test of time IMO.
DT12 would be a really really good album if it was a debut from a new band.
But if it is the 12th album of a band that has put out albums like Imagens & Words, Scenes from a Memory and 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, it is a very weak album that does not stand the test of time IMO.
So in your opinion, it doesn't stand the test of time because it's DT's twelfth album, but if it was the debut album by some other band it would? I'm sorry, that doesn't make any sense to me.
DT12 would be a really really good album if it was a debut from a new band.
But if it is the 12th album of a band that has put out albums like Imagens & Words, Scenes from a Memory and 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, it is a very weak album that does not stand the test of time IMO.
So in your opinion, it doesn't stand the test of time because it's DT's twelfth album, but if it was the debut album by some other band it would? I'm sorry, that doesn't make any sense to me.
No. If it was a debut from a new band we wouldn't be talking about test of time, because there would be no time to test, no previous work to compare the album to.
think I am one of the more vocal fans of DT12 and I just want to add that I appreciate what DT attempted in this album. They have said publicly that they want to be straight to the point in this album to showcase how tight they are as a unit these days. And by doing so, they have let go of the "crutch" of relying on their instrumental virtuosity to carry their songs. So they just focused on writing good songs, and, for me, it succeeded. I appreciate how tight the instrumentals are in this album. No wasted notes, even in the long Illumination Theory. I look back at the SC/BC&SL days and remember how much of the songs are actually weak but are just propped up by good instrumentals. I am glad they have tried to rid of that crutch.
I think this translated into their live set. They got rid of the crutch of Images and Words, which is their fallback to prop up their live set. And they just delivered one of their best sets ever.
But if it is the 12th album of a band that has put out albums like Imagens & Words, Scenes from a Memory and 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, it is a very weak album that does not stand the test of time IMO.
I agree with this. The songs are becoming more focussed and are offering more in six minutes than they would before in about ten. However, I think they may have gone a bit too far in that regard as I feel like AftR and StR may have benifitted from having a bit more room to breathe, as a few transitions come off as either forced or rushed. Still a great album though.
DT12 would be a really really good album if it was a debut from a new band.
But if it is the 12th album of a band that has put out albums like Imagens & Words, Scenes from a Memory and 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, it is a very weak album that does not stand the test of time IMO.
my first thought was "decent". now I love it. It's in my top 5, which are:
SC
BCSL
ADTOE
ToT
DT12
I know, this fits perfectly in the controversial opinion thread. Sue me.
I voted decent as well. Changing my vote to meh. It just has almost no relisten value.
Given the recent comments, it would be interesting to re-run the exact same poll again and see how the results compare.
Given the recent comments, it would be interesting to re-run the exact same poll again and see how the results compare.
Yeah I thought of that too. Although now in-between albums we wouldn't get as many votes. But maybe that's a good thing, since mostly resident and more constantly active members would do the voting.
If you have a new poll make sure to add a category for "instant classic that took a while" for bosk1 ;D
Every once in awhile, I pull it out, and I'm always impressed with how good it is, and how well it's aged.
If I pulled it out while listening to DT12, it would be pointing south. :lol :p
Along For the Ride just came up on shuffle, but I noticed something before skipping. Maybe this has been said before, I don't know, but the sound of water in the begenning is a loop of a sample about 1 second long. Once I noticed that, I'm just astonished that production can be so lazy for a band as "big" as DT. How the hell did that get through? Is it supposed to sound lazy and like a demo by a buch of kids? I genuinely don't understand..Dammit, now I hear it too!
If I pulled it out while listening to DT12, it would be pointing south. :lol :pWILLY
I just realized IT starts out similar to Overture. I had pandora on shuffle then the intro started I thought it was IT then the orchestra started.
Same here, and the solo at the end is basically Razor's Edge 2.0.I just realized IT starts out similar to Overture. I had pandora on shuffle then the intro started I thought it was IT then the orchestra started.
Starts AND ends similarly (to SDOIT overall, not just Overture). It's bugged me since the first listen. :lol
I just realized IT starts out similar to Overture. I had pandora on shuffle then the intro started I thought it was IT then the orchestra started.
Starts AND ends similarly (to SDOIT overall, not just Overture). It's bugged me since the first listen. :lol
The rest of it is still better than what most other bands are doing these days. I would rather listen to all of those other songs than pretty much anything on the radio, or about 99% of all the "music" that has come out in the last couple of years that we are required to accept as being "popular!"
I love Live From Daryl's House. That's always fun.
The rest of it is still better than what most other bands are doing these days. I would rather listen to all of those other songs than pretty much anything on the radio, or about 99% of all the "music" that has come out in the last couple of years that we are required to accept as being "popular!"
I'm not sure we're "required" to accept anything. It's popular because it IS popular, and there is a surprising level of talent and performance in some of today's pop music that is heartbreakingly overlooked. I've taken to watching Live From Daryl's House and Later...with Jools Holland regardless of who is on (as opposed to just watching people "I like"), and they both have some surprises. People that I would ordinarily dismiss but who really have the goods, just don't always make music I want to listen to. But that's on me, not them.
Other than that, this album is still really good, but I don't listen to it a whole lot. It's still better than ADTOE though.
Along For the Ride just came up on shuffle, but I noticed something before skipping. Maybe this has been said before, I don't know, but the sound of water in the begenning is a loop of a sample about 1 second long. Once I noticed that, I'm just astonished that production can be so lazy for a band as "big" as DT. How the hell did that get through? Is it supposed to sound lazy and like a demo by a buch of kids? I genuinely don't understand..
I still rate ADTOE as a MUCH BETTER album.
REALLY? OMG!
A 1 second loop in 10 seconds is really something to nag about.