What are your thoughts on DT12?

[Kotowboy]

Illumination Theory
False Awakening Suite
Enigma Machine
The Enemy Inside
The Looking Glass
Behind the Veil
The Bigger Picture


Surrender to Reason
Along for the Ride

That's my Ranking

[Kotowboy]

One thing I would add though - is that the album is pretty heavy throughout. And then you have two back to back lighter songs at the end before the Epic.

If Surrender To Reason was towards the first third of the album - it might sit better for me. Maybe after The Looking Glass.

Then you would have Looking Glass - Surrender and then Boom - Enigma Machine.

[ariich]

How is Surrender to Reason lighter than The Looking Glass or The Bigger Picture?

[Viking of the Sagas]

Well this album turned out to be a grower. I love the first half of the album to death, it's all really catchy and I'm going to love it live. The second half is too amazing, but Surrender to Reason and parts of Illumination Theory ("surrender to the light to help you get through the day" ewwww) don't mix up with me.

[425]

I've been taking it slow with this one. I'm sure I've made some preliminary statements about my opinions on some of the songs, but only now do I feel like I know the album well enough to really talk about it.

For me, this is the most consistently good album in a long time. It holds my attention all the way through and there are no songs I would really consider to be lackluster.

I do think this and ADTOE are in a new style that is distinct from that of other albums due to the absence of Mike Portnoy. There are certainly some things I miss about MP: his experimentation with other style of music and his vocals, to name the main two. But in a lot of ways, Dream Theater's compositions have improved since his departure and he's certainly been adequately replaced by Mike Mangini. So I'm not exactly a member of the "bring back teh Pornty" club but I'm also not in the "MP was ruining DT" club either.

One thing I remember saying very early on in my listening to this album is that I wasn't too sure about the fact that all of the songs on the album are dominated by distorted guitars. This is definitely the most of a full-on onslaught that a DT album has been since Train of Thought, and may be even more of one than that album (since Vacant breaks ToT up right in the middle, but the break of IT comes very close to the end of the album. I do greatly enjoy this album but it's definitely one of DT's heaviest albums and so is not suitable for as many situations as an album like Images and Words, Octavarium, or even the much-hated Systematic Chaos.

95% of you have probably stopped reading by now so I'll just move along to a brief track-by-track.

False Awakening Suite - This is a good opener, but it doesn't really catch my ear as well as the rest of the tracks. Maybe it will in time, but it's probably my least favorite on the album at this early stage.

The Enemy Inside - Very good song. I love how it encompasses both the prog DT and the metal DT. Wacky instrumental stuff courtesy of Jordan is always good.

The Looking Glass - One of my least favorites early on, but still a very good song. I really am not complaining about the ending or a Rush "ripoff"or anything, it's just a solid short DT song with a catchy chorus (I love how our favorite prog band writes so many catchy vocal melodies).

Enigma Machine - An early favorite for me, actually. Fun and crazy instrumental fun (yes I realize I used fun as an adjective to describe fun. get over it). Probably my second or third favorite DT instrumental.

The Bigger Picture - My favorite on the album right now. So huge and so beautiful.  James and Jordan. That ending… Chills.

Behind the Veil - Another of the good ones. Great diversity within one track, and another fantastic chorus. Love it.

Surrender to Reason - This one is good but hasn't wowed me yet. The intro feels the tiniest bit disjointed, but it's made up for by restless angels.

Along for the Ride - I first heard this as part of the album and was surprised that so many people seemed to dislike it when they released it as a single. Great chorus (again!) and I love that tasty solo.

Illumination Theory - I'm really not sure how to feel about this one yet. Epics usually take a while to make me love them; I usually dislike them at first and grow to love them over time. That happened with ACOS, 8VM and TCOT. But I will say that it has some seriously excellent parts, like the moment right out of the orchestral section with Myung and Mangini being Myungini.



Rankings (everyone skipped to this part anyway):

1. The Bigger Picture
2. Illumination Theory (very tentative)
3. Behind the Veil
4. Enigma Machine
5. Along for the Ride
6. The Enemy Inside
7. Surrender to Reason
8. The Looking Glass
9. False Awakening Suite

Verdict: While I still somewhat miss MP's presence on this album, this is the best album Dream Theater has released in a long time. If it stands the test of time, it could be my third favorite after Images and Scenes.

[webpoet73]

I am really trying to like this album.  It is a 'technically' solid album, but the songs (to me) are not memorable.  I think it feels almost too technical. 

[olddtfan51@gmail.com]

After many plays I still love this album. This is just a really fun album to listen to. I also feel the same way about Systematic Chaos.

[Tick]

I am really trying to like this album.  It is a 'technically' solid album, but the songs (to me) are not memorable.  I think it feels almost too technical.

too technical compared to what?

[Lucien]

I am really trying to like this album.  It is a 'technically' solid album, but the songs (to me) are not memorable.  I think it feels almost too technical.

too technical compared to what?

[Hanz Gropenfondel]

Definitely an instant classic, for me.
Now, I'm not going to rank it, I find that impossible to do with DT, but that's exactly why it's an instant classic; it fits right in with the rest of their library.

[Viking of the Sagas]

Incidentally, as I don't want to start a new topic for this, when does TEI hit the radio channels? I thought I read from somewhere that the single was going on radio rotation.

[sylvinception]

The "style" of DT 12 made me think of a mix between I&W and Octavarium.

[webpoet73]

I am really trying to like this album.  It is a 'technically' solid album, but the songs (to me) are not memorable.  I think it feels almost too technical.

too technical compared to what?

Does it have to be a comparison?  I totally enjoyed listening to ATODE much more.  There is just something that isn't clicking with me on this album.  I know I am in the minority, but I am a-ok with that.  I am trying.  I am listening to it now.  It's not that it's bad.  It's just not that as fantastic as I thought it'd be.  I will continue to give it spins.  Maybe it will grow on me. 

It's like this... there is good fried chicken and there is great fried chicken.  Sometimes, they both have the same ingredients, but one just tastes better.  The album has all of the ingredients that make a great DT album, but it feels like it's missing something.  For one, the ballads didn't hit me as "emotional".  Missing that one little bit of emotion compared to albums past....  They seemed kind of flat to me.   For example, "Beneath The Surface" was much more emotional.  Made me want to sing along with it.  None of the songs on this album give that feeling.

I know I'll be called crazy and possibly dismissed, but I stand by my opinion...

[theseoafs]

What are the "ballads" on this album that are not emotional enough?  Maybe your problem with the album is that you're expecting the songs to be something they're not.

[Kotowboy]

IMO - Along For The Ride is nowhere near as good as The Answer Lies Within or This Is The Life. 

[BlobVanDam]

IMO - Along For The Ride is nowhere near as good as The Answer Lies Within or This Is The Life. 

TALW is less cheesy to me, but it's also a lot more dull, so I think I'd take Along For The Ride there.

I think of Along For The Ride as a cross between TITL and BTS. TITL is easily my favourite out of those, although I'm not sure which I'd choose out of AFTR and BTS. My dislike of them  is for similar reasons, although AFTR has grown on me a little bit, so I'd probably choose that. And the keyboard solo is beautiful in both, and the highlight of both songs for me.

[aprilethereal]

IMO - Along For The Ride is nowhere near as good as The Answer Lies Within or This Is The Life. 

IMO it slays both of them

[Polarbear]

I am really trying to like this album.  It is a 'technically' solid album, but the songs (to me) are not memorable.  I think it feels almost too technical.

too technical compared to what?

Does it have to be a comparison?  I totally enjoyed listening to ATODE much more.  There is just something that isn't clicking with me on this album.  I know I am in the minority, but I am a-ok with that.  I am trying.  I am listening to it now.  It's not that it's bad.  It's just not that as fantastic as I thought it'd be.  I will continue to give it spins.  Maybe it will grow on me. 

It's like this... there is good fried chicken and there is great fried chicken.  Sometimes, they both have the same ingredients, but one just tastes better.  The album has all of the ingredients that make a great DT album, but it feels like it's missing something.  For one, the ballads didn't hit me as "emotional".  Missing that one little bit of emotion compared to albums past....  They seemed kind of flat to me.   For example, "Beneath The Surface" was much more emotional.  Made me want to sing along with it.  None of the songs on this album give that feeling.

I know I'll be called crazy and possibly dismissed, but I stand by my opinion...

Nope, i agree with every word you said!

This album had the pieces in place for it be a great album, there is just something that prevents it from reaching that point. After 20+ listens i just gave up on this album, i will never like it as much as i hoped.

Dream Theater has never made a bad album, and this one isn't all bad either. But it is just below average in every way possible.

[Viking of the Sagas]

Weird, I really like the album after a few listens. Even Surrender to Reason has clicked. It's more like an addiction to be honest. 

[philippaopao]

IMO the album has such a rare quality wherein the songs could flow into each other seamlessly (almost like a concept album), but also can stand on their own as top quality songs. It's really ironic because the songs are not "joined" together; they all have proper endings yet they seem to flow each other so well!

[NunoBadmintoncourt]

IMO - Along For The Ride is nowhere near as good as The Answer Lies Within or This Is The Life. 

IMO it slays both of them

Musically, I love all of them equally but lyrically, "The Answer Lies Within" reads like a lecture from Oprah to me.

[The Stray Seed]

IMO - Along For The Ride is nowhere near as good as The Answer Lies Within or This Is The Life. 

IMO it slays both of them

I also do think it's better than both.

[jonB]

And for my first post.....
I've listened to this album several times and for some reason I keep changing my mind! Compared to ADTOE I feel that is is much more guitarcentric. Jordan, on that album, was much more in the mix and I felt on this album he's treading water a little in terms of sounds especially.

My worry is that JP is becomming quite dominant - guitar - lyrics - production - band leader....I hope he doesnt over do it! His sound - at first I rather liked his more retro approach, but now I'm not so sure. JM great to hear him - Mangini - great playing - maybe too great in some ways - the whole album note perfect - timing absolutely on the pulse, but maybe he could push and pull it a bit more - drum production seems to suit some playback systems better than others, but it could be way better.

Composition wise I think some of the lyrics and vocal melodies are the things that let the album down the most. Having said all that, it IS a very good album, and yes I am picking holes but these were just thoughts coming through when i heard it.

[tiagodon]

I´ve been away for a while... Lots of shit going on. Anyway... I got the album in the week it came out and I´ve been listening to it ever since. Everyday. It´s good, very good. It´s strong. But I got to tell you: I really miss Portnoy. Mangini is a fantastic drummer. But his playing is too mechanic. Lacks feeling. He is a robot! I had that impression with ADTOE. Now it is confirmed. I just felt like spilling it out. Crucify me! See ya...

[Sycsa]

Compared to ADTOE I feel that is is much more guitarcentric. Jordan, on that album, was much more in the mix

Agreed. I was hoping that tendency would continue, I really liked Jordan being more up front on ADTOE. His playing is at its peak, his sounds are better than ever, it would have made sense, especially after seeing all the equipment he hauled into the studio. JP's guitar, although his playing and tone is at peak levels as well, tends to get a little overwhelming at some points.

[AngelBack]

IMO the album has such a rare quality wherein the songs could flow into each other seamlessly (almost like a concept album), but also can stand on their own as top quality songs. It's really ironic because the songs are not "joined" together; they all have proper endings yet they seem to flow each other so well!

I agree.  This is the first album since SDOIT that I prefer to listen to the entire album in order rather than just hit the favorites.  I have probably listened to the entire album 30 or 40 times and it is showing no signs of fatigue whatsoever.

[adastra]

I´ve been away for a while... Lots of shit going on. Anyway... I got the album in the week it came out and I´ve been listening to it ever since. Everyday. It´s good, very good. It´s strong. But I got to tell you: I really miss Portnoy. Mangini is a fantastic drummer. But his playing is too mechanic. Lacks feeling. He is a robot! I had that impression with ADTOE. Now it is confirmed. I just felt like spilling it out. Crucify me! See ya...

I Completely agree with this. I think that the Drums are the weakest thing in DT12.   

[metrojam]

Over a month down the line, since I first heard the CD and I'm afraid to say that any hopes I had that it would have been one of those "growers" have been evaporated   I remain very disappointed with DT12 and after initially listening to it MANY times in the first few days, I left it a month before listening to it again in the hope that I would discover that "something" that I had missed initially, but NO, I'm afraid I didn't
Biggest musical disappointment of 2013 (along with the farcical Luna Park DVD/CD issue!).

[1neeto]

Still love the album but one thing that's getting really under my skin is that snare. Especially in songs where the snare is pretty isolated like on the intro of IT. Sounds like a fake cheap electronic snare. The terrible triggered snare from I&W sounds better.

[Crow]

Listening to this right now and since it's on my mind.
What is with all the GODAWFUL effects on this album. Mangini sounds awful all the way through but especially on The Enemy Inside, LaBrie has effects on his vocals all over the place, the worst is the last section of illumination theory though, there's a section in The Bigger Picture where Petrucci's guitar sounds hilariously fake, and one of the earlier parts of Surrender to Reason has awful sounds for both guitar and bass (tradeoff bit or whatever)
Also Rudess you can't get away with your fake synth strings when you hire an actual orchestra for one of the songs because it makes the synths sound so terrible in comparison.
In other news, why does every single chorus on this album sound exactly the same? LaBrie sings them all the same and they're all backed by power chords and synth strings and it's just so goddamn bland, ugh. This album is getting more painful to listen to every time I listen to it... I've listened to /every other DT album/ over the past few days, too, and am prepared to call this the worst in their discography. So much here to hate. It was just boring but not offensively bad at first, but it keeps getting worse and worse.

[aprilethereal]

^^ "Official DT12 Enthusiast"

[Crow]

I am very enthusiastic about hating it.

[aprilethereal]

Even if I tried really hard, I couldn't find anything to hate about DT12, maybe apart from the ambient section in IT (which I like, but I can see why some don't).

[Crow]

Ehh, not much is as hateable as the worst of the other roadrunner albums, but there's also nothing very likeable about it which drives me to find reasons to hate it. It's had its chance to grow on me, and it didn't.

[wasteland]

Ehh, not much is as hateable as the worst of the other roadrunner albums, but there's also nothing very likeable about it which drives me to find reasons to hate it. It's had its chance to grow on me, and it didn't.

Just because you didn't find anything to like it doesn't mean that you actively have to hate it. Just sayin'.