2022 NFL Thread (Chiefs win Super Bowl 57)

[El Barto]

Sounds like the biggest culprit in the NE disaster is the RB Stevenson.  It is easy to dog Myers for the horrible lateral or Mac for his bad attempt at a tackle, but apparently the play call was to run the ball and go down, and Stevenson is the one who went rouge and tried to play hero ball.  Myers simply panicked in the moment because he wasn't expecting a lateral, and, well, Jones is a QB and tackling is not their game (see: Teddy Bridgewater).  Stevenson is the real doofus here.

I blame the coaching staff.  This is the most undisciplined Pats team I've seen in the Belichick era. That 1st and goal from the 2 tells the whole story.

Agreed.

Discipline comes in many flavours. In some ways they are and in others they're much improved. Remember how bad their tackling was last year? I'm not sure, but I suspect they're also committing fewer penalties this year. The O-line is the only group that casts doubt on that.

As for the 1st and 2, that wasn't a lack of discipline from the players. That was the coaches screwing up.

[Stadler]

Genuine question for you New England fans: if the Pats miss the playoffs this year then miss it next year and this new trend of undisciplined play continues, what are the chances Robert Kraft makes a coaching change at the end of next season? And is this something you guys would be on board with if the Pats continue to struggle like this?

I say you stick with Belichick as long as he wants to do it.  What are you going to do?  Get one of those young kids in there that looks like he's playing Dungeons and Dragons instead of coaching a football team? Then ten years from now we win a playoff game?   I don't want to be the Dolphins.   He is putting out the best team he can right now. Is it perfect?  No.  Is it moving in the right direction? I think it is (see Bart's post).   The discipline will come; he needs to put good, competitive athletes out there, and he's doing that.  They are not getting blown out, and they are staying competitive.  I'm not panicking, frankly.

[El Barto]

Genuine question for you New England fans: if the Pats miss the playoffs this year then miss it next year and this new trend of undisciplined play continues, what are the chances Robert Kraft makes a coaching change at the end of next season? And is this something you guys would be on board with if the Pats continue to struggle like this?

I say you stick with Belichick as long as he wants to do it.  What are you going to do?  Get one of those young kids in there that looks like he's playing Dungeons and Dragons instead of coaching a football team? Then ten years from now we win a playoff game?   I don't want to be the Dolphins.   He is putting out the best team he can right now. Is it perfect?  No.  Is it moving in the right direction? I think it is (see Bart's post).   The discipline will come; he needs to put good, competitive athletes out there, and he's doing that.  They are not getting blown out, and they are staying competitive.  I'm not panicking, frankly.

Exactly. Like I said a few weeks ago, Patriots fans are so spoiled they've lost sight of how bad it can be. Just ask Rams fans about Wunderkind McVey.

[King Postwhore]

Only idiots want Belichick gone but he does need to add coaching.  They are stretched too thin.  This is the least amount of coaches on the staff this year than any other Belichick runned year.

[pg1067]

Sounds like the biggest culprit in the NE disaster is the RB Stevenson.  It is easy to dog Myers for the horrible lateral or Mac for his bad attempt at a tackle, but apparently the play call was to run the ball and go down, and Stevenson is the one who went rouge and tried to play hero ball.  Myers simply panicked in the moment because he wasn't expecting a lateral, and, well, Jones is a QB and tackling is not their game (see: Teddy Bridgewater).  Stevenson is the real doofus here.

I put it more on Myers. I'm sure the laterals were never on the table, risky and totally unnecessary, but Stevenson's was perfectly safe. I think once Meyers got the ball he figured they were trying to go full on Golden Bears. It might have been panic, but I suspect it was more being caught up in the moment and thinking that's what they were doing.

Agree (except for the part about the first lateral being perfectly safe).  Meyers didn't panic.  He acted like he absolutely expected that stupid lateral.  He calmly turned around and started running backwards for 8 yards and took 3 seconds before throwing the ball ANOTHER 10 yards backward.  All this was happening on the Pats' sideline where his coaches were presumably screaming "get down!"  He threw the ball to a guy on the other team.  He did not throw it to Jones, who was standing a full five yards away from where the Raiders guy caught the ball and was TOTALLY unprepared for what was happening.  If anyone panicked, it was Jones (and rightfully so).  If what Meyers did was a result of panic, then he should be released immediately.  This is 98% on Mr. law firm and 2% on Stevenson.  To his credit, though, he owned up to it in postgame interviews.

[Stadler]

Sounds like the biggest culprit in the NE disaster is the RB Stevenson.  It is easy to dog Myers for the horrible lateral or Mac for his bad attempt at a tackle, but apparently the play call was to run the ball and go down, and Stevenson is the one who went rouge and tried to play hero ball.  Myers simply panicked in the moment because he wasn't expecting a lateral, and, well, Jones is a QB and tackling is not their game (see: Teddy Bridgewater).  Stevenson is the real doofus here.

I put it more on Myers. I'm sure the laterals were never on the table, risky and totally unnecessary, but Stevenson's was perfectly safe. I think once Meyers got the ball he figured they were trying to go full on Golden Bears. It might have been panic, but I suspect it was more being caught up in the moment and thinking that's what they were doing.

Agree (except for the part about the first lateral being perfectly safe).  Meyers didn't panic.  He acted like he absolutely expected that stupid lateral.  He calmly turned around and started running backwards for 8 yards and took 3 seconds before throwing the ball ANOTHER 10 yards backward.  All this was happening on the Pats' sideline where his coaches were presumably screaming "get down!"  He threw the ball to a guy on the other team.  He did not throw it to Jones, who was standing a full five yards away from where the Raiders guy caught the ball and was TOTALLY unprepared for what was happening.  If anyone panicked, it was Jones (and rightfully so).  If what Meyers did was a result of panic, then he should be released immediately.  This is 98% on Mr. law firm and 2% on Stevenson.  To his credit, though, he owned up to it in postgame interviews.

I see what you did there....

[pg1067]

When I first heard his name mentioned on a broadcast, I was like...wait...what?!   

[emtee]

Interesting to read that some people think the Lions will get in. Would love to see it but winning out is tough. Especially the last game against the Packers in Lambeau.

IF they do make it, watch out. As long as the DB's can cover, which is their main weakness, they can compete with any team.

[Nick]

Only idiots want Belichick gone but he does need to add coaching.  They are stretched too thin.  This is the least amount of coaches on the staff this year than any other Belichick runned year.

Yeah, they are probably all runned down from having to do all the extra coaching.

[Dream Team]

Watched a report on ProfootballTalk confirming the Vegas oddsmakers have inside info the public does not. They were the first ones who knew of Jalen Hurts' injury and immediately changed the odds on the Cowboys game. The injury hadn't even been reported yet. Crooked crooked crooked; in addition to the consistently questionable officiating. You can see why the NFL officially bills its product as "entertainment" instead of "sporting competition". As Florio always says, nothing will change until congress gets involved. Until then the NFL is like "shut up and give me your money".

[King Postwhore]

Only idiots want Belichick gone but he does need to add coaching.  They are stretched too thin.  This is the least amount of coaches on the staff this year than any other Belichick runned year.

Yeah, they are probably all runned down from having to do all the extra coaching.

No, the attention to detail is slipping with so much on their plates.  Nee ner, nee ner.

[El Barto]

Watched a report on ProfootballTalk confirming the Vegas oddsmakers have inside info the public does not. They were the first ones who knew of Jalen Hurts' injury and immediately changed the odds on the Cowboys game. The injury hadn't even been reported yet. Crooked crooked crooked; in addition to the consistently questionable officiating. You can see why the NFL officially bills its product as "entertainment" instead of "sporting competition". As Florio always says, nothing will change until congress gets involved. Until then the NFL is like "shut up and give me your money".

Oddsmakers knowing things the general public does not? Um, yeah, that's how they make their money. That's how they've always made their money. I guarangodamntee you that if Flavius Maximus had a sprained shoulder before his Saturni evening heat there were bookies that knew about it before the plebeians did. This isn't really news.

But once again I have to ask, why do you care? If you see it the same as the WWE you're probably better off watching that instead. They have writers, and if you're into amazonians hot chicks.

[El Barto]

One thing I really would like to see adopted is uniform camera placement at games. The ability to correctly review a play shouldn't be based upon how important the networks feel a particular game is. Playoff games get the full Matrix treatment. Low interest games get squat. Cameras in the pylons should be a given. Maybe instead of just micing them up so we can hear a satisfying THUNG when a goalpost gets hit we could put a couple of webcams on the silly things. This is a deficiency that's easily fixable, and at this point wouldn't even cost all that much. Hell, pay guys to sit on the corners with their stupid iPhones out and stream it to the replay booth, FFS.

[Stadler]

I love the NFL, and I find myself still enjoying most of the games.   My only real beefs at this point are a) the officiating, and b) the way gambling has COMPLETELY overrun the game.  Even the "official" broadcasts are now talking not in terms of whether Dallas is going to beat Washington on the field and whether Dak is capable of beating that secondary.  They are talking in terms of covering the spread, and whether Dak can put up enough numbers to get the "Over".  I don't give a rat's ass.  The critique last night about Green Bay taking the knee at the 2-yard line; it wasn't the sportsmanship, or even the playoff tie-breaker, but whether Green Bay was going to beat the over/under.   

[TAC]

100% Bill. I completely agree and have almost posted a similar rant a number of times. I do not fucking care how this team or that team is against the spread. What's the Win-Loss record. Do we still care about that?
Or...The Patriots have a 30% chance of winning the game. WTF?? Expected points?? How about ACTUAL points?

[El Barto]

I love the NFL, and I find myself still enjoying most of the games.   My only real beefs at this point are a) the officiating, and b) the way gambling has COMPLETELY overrun the game.  Even the "official" broadcasts are now talking not in terms of whether Dallas is going to beat Washington on the field and whether Dak is capable of beating that secondary.  They are talking in terms of covering the spread, and whether Dak can put up enough numbers to get the "Over".  I don't give a rat's ass.  The critique last night about Green Bay taking the knee at the 2-yard line; it wasn't the sportsmanship, or even the playoff tie-breaker, but whether Green Bay was going to beat the over/under.

I certainly agree about the gambling aspect. Not so much about the officiating. I expressed in an email to a friend last night that I actually like NFL referees. I think they do a surprisingly good job under difficult circumstances and bowling a 300 game simply isn't going to happen. Despite when there are obvious examples of calls going wrong, with the current blend of on the field and in the booth, officiating is probably better than it's ever been.  We're the ones fucking it up by setting unrealistic expectations based on what the technology allows us to see after the fact.

Does anybody actually think that if we were go go back to a game from 1986 and watch it through the modern lens the officiating woudl be better? I think we'd be shocked at how much they got wrong.

As an aside, the reason I was pointing it out is because NFL referees, unlike most of the other sports, actually seem to really enjoy the game. I'd watched a video of refs getting knocked down, blocked, hit with passes, blocked from behind, and dog-piled, and with the exception of one or two who were really hurt, every one of them got up laughing about it. Despite being held to unrealistic expectations I think they really enjoy doing what they do.

[Podaar]

Amen, especially umpires. They’re commonly used as a natural pick by receivers, and are frequently in the action.  Much respect!

[King Postwhore]

R.I.P. Mr. Immaculate Reception.

[pg1067]

Amen, especially umpires. They’re were commonly used as a natural pick by receivers, and are were frequently in the action.  Much respect!

ftfy

The referee and umpire are positioned in the offensive backfield - behind the QB with one on each set of hashmarks.  This has been the case since 2010 (except for the last five minutes of the second half from 2010-15).

R.I.P. Mr. Immaculate Reception.

I heard that on the way into the office.  An absolute legend of my childhood.  The timing sucks given that Friday is the 50th anniversary of the Immaculate Reception, and the NFL specifically scheduled the Raiders to play the Steelers on Saturday in celebration of the game.  I'm sure Franco's Italian Army will be out in force.

[Stadler]

I love the NFL, and I find myself still enjoying most of the games.   My only real beefs at this point are a) the officiating, and b) the way gambling has COMPLETELY overrun the game.  Even the "official" broadcasts are now talking not in terms of whether Dallas is going to beat Washington on the field and whether Dak is capable of beating that secondary.  They are talking in terms of covering the spread, and whether Dak can put up enough numbers to get the "Over".  I don't give a rat's ass.  The critique last night about Green Bay taking the knee at the 2-yard line; it wasn't the sportsmanship, or even the playoff tie-breaker, but whether Green Bay was going to beat the over/under.

I certainly agree about the gambling aspect. Not so much about the officiating. I expressed in an email to a friend last night that I actually like NFL referees. I think they do a surprisingly good job under difficult circumstances and bowling a 300 game simply isn't going to happen. Despite when there are obvious examples of calls going wrong, with the current blend of on the field and in the booth, officiating is probably better than it's ever been.  We're the ones fucking it up by setting unrealistic expectations based on what the technology allows us to see after the fact.

Does anybody actually think that if we were go go back to a game from 1986 and watch it through the modern lens the officiating woudl be better? I think we'd be shocked at how much they got wrong.

As an aside, the reason I was pointing it out is because NFL referees, unlike most of the other sports, actually seem to really enjoy the game. I'd watched a video of refs getting knocked down, blocked, hit with passes, blocked from behind, and dog-piled, and with the exception of one or two who were really hurt, every one of them got up laughing about it. Despite being held to unrealistic expectations I think they really enjoy doing what they do.

Fair enough; can't really argue that. 

[DragonAttack]

I remember this play well from '72, watching at my neighbors, the ending of the 1PM Saturday divisional playoff game (how I miss those playoff kickoff times!).

To set it up, both defenses ruled that frigid day.  The Raiders offense was abysmal with Darryl Lamonica at QB.  Kenny Stabler came in late in the 3rd quarter when it was 3-0.  At 6-0, he scored the go ahead TD on a 30 yard scramble with under two minutes to go (George Blanda kicked the go ahead PAT).

Here's the TV footage, with Curt Gowdy announcing, minus that 'interruptive' shot NFL films uses for this play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1l5aTUK228

This was also before they made the rule change regarding deflected passes in '78.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Reception

Oh, and Franco was one class act.  RIP.

[cramx3]

Oh, and Franco was one class act.  RIP.

and a Penn State legend, RIP.

[pg1067]

I remember this play well from '72, watching at my neighbors, the ending of the 1PM Saturday divisional playoff game (how I miss those playoff kickoff times!).

To set it up, both defenses ruled that frigid day.  The Raiders offense was abysmal with Darryl Lamonica at QB.  Kenny Stabler came in late in the 3rd quarter when it was 3-0.  At 6-0, he scored the go ahead TD on a 30 yard scramble with under two minutes to go (George Blanda kicked the go ahead PAT).

Here's the TV footage, with Curt Gowdy announcing, minus that 'interruptive' shot NFL films uses for this play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1l5aTUK228

This was also before they made the rule change regarding deflected passes in '78.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Reception

The play was before my time, but I was around for -- and remember when they announced -- the rule change.  I also recall when I first learned about this play that the big controversy was whether it had deflected off Jack Tatum (legal catch) or Frenchy Fuqua (illegal catch) and not whether Harris had caught the ball without it hitting the ground.

[Podaar]

Amen, especially umpires. They’re were commonly used as a natural pick by receivers, and are were frequently in the action.  Much respect!

ftfy

The referee and umpire are positioned in the offensive backfield - behind the QB with one on each set of hashmarks.  This has been the case since 2010 (except for the last five minutes of the second half from 2010-15).

You can tell I watch a lot more college football than pro, eh? 

I never noticed the change in official positioning. I'll pay closer attention.

[DragonAttack]

23 months before the Immaculate Reception, this happened in Super Bowl V (Unitas to Mackey, with the same 'debate' as to touches)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrg6rhKq27w

or, at the 3 minute mark (Curt Gowdy again announcing....note his comments as it happened)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbHwjSF892k

As to Franco Harris, there were comments about how he'd run out of bounds to avoid making contact at times.  Huh?  Sometimes maybe, but he lived to play another day (and another, and another, and another......)

[KevShmev]

Not that Pro Bowl rosters mean all that much, but I wonder would the odds in Vegas would have been that these three would be the three NFC choices:

Jalen Hurts, Philadelphia Eagles
Geno Smith, Seattle Seahawks
Kirk Cousins, Minnesota Vikings

It's wild to think that both Rodgers and Brady are in what most consider the weaker conference, especially when it comes to QBs, yet neither made it.

[Stadler]

The enduring thing from watching that catch over and over is what a beast Jack Tatum was.  Man, that guy didn't have a lower gear.

[pg1067]

23 months before the Immaculate Reception, this happened in Super Bowl V (Unitas to Mackey, with the same 'debate' as to touches)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrg6rhKq27w

or, at the 3 minute mark (Curt Gowdy again announcing....note his comments as it happened)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbHwjSF892k

As to Franco Harris, there were comments about how he'd run out of bounds to avoid making contact at times.  Huh?  Sometimes maybe, but he lived to play another day (and another, and another, and another......)

That first video pretty clearly shows it was first tipped by a Colts player and then a Cowboys player before Mackey caught it.  Gowdy did a great job of explaining the rule.  When I was around 10 or so, someone got me an encyclopedia style book about football, and it had individual articles about all 11 (up to that point) Super Bowls.  I recall wondering why no one seemed to celebrate SB5 as a great game given that it was the first one to be decided by a last second score.  From what I can surmise from game summaries, other than 5 and 10, the first 11 Owls were far less than superb.

Also, straight-ahead placekickers look so weird!

[Deathless]

Not that Pro Bowl rosters mean all that much, but I wonder would the odds in Vegas would have been that these three would be the three NFC choices:

Jalen Hurts, Philadelphia Eagles
Geno Smith, Seattle Seahawks
Kirk Cousins, Minnesota Vikings

It's wild to think that both Rodgers and Brady are in what most consider the weaker conference, especially when it comes to QBs, yet neither made it.

Both the development of Hurts and the renaissance of Smith have been incredible to watch this year. Very cool (and well-deserving) that they both were selected to the Pro Bowl.

[bosk1]

23 months before the Immaculate Reception, this happened in Super Bowl V (Unitas to Mackey, with the same 'debate' as to touches)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrg6rhKq27w

or, at the 3 minute mark (Curt Gowdy again announcing....note his comments as it happened)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbHwjSF892k

As to Franco Harris, there were comments about how he'd run out of bounds to avoid making contact at times.  Huh?  Sometimes maybe, but he lived to play another day (and another, and another, and another......)

That first video pretty clearly shows it was first tipped by a Colts player and then a Cowboys player before Mackey caught it.  Gowdy did a great job of explaining the rule.  When I was around 10 or so, someone got me an encyclopedia style book about football, and it had individual articles about all 11 (up to that point) Super Bowls.  I recall wondering why no one seemed to celebrate SB5 as a great game given that it was the first one to be decided by a last second score.  From what I can surmise from game summaries, other than 5 and 10, the first 11 Owls were far less than superb.

Also, straight-ahead placekickers look so weird!

When the 49ers were making their first Super Bowl run, a lot of stores in the Bay Area had the official Super Bowl XVI program, which had a huge chunk of it devoted to full-page spreads of pics and articles of the first 15.  Sounds similar to what you are describing.  I don't even know how many times I read that thing cover to cover.  But I don't have a specific recollection of V, or of a lot of the earlier ones, for that matter. 

[Cool Chris]

From what I can surmise from game summaries, other than 5 and 10, the first 11 Owls were far less than superb.

Don't know the history that well, but sounds about right.

The first SB I have any memory of is 20, and other than Niners/Bengals and the Bills Wide Right game, my early experiences were a bunch of blowouts. But I was a kid watching with my dad, so didn't care one bit.

Also, straight-ahead placekickers look so weird!

And the single bar facemask!

[pg1067]

But I don't have a specific recollection of V, or of a lot of the earlier ones, for that matter.

The first SB I have any memory of is 20, and other than Niners/Bengals and the Bills Wide Right game, my early experiences were a bunch of blowouts. But I was a kid watching with my dad, so didn't care one bit.

The first one I watched was 12.  It was great.  My newly adopted team made the Super Bowl in my first year watching football!  Woo hoo!  Little did I know I was in for years of heartbreak.  Until 32, the ONLY game won by the team I wanted to win was 16 (and that's only because, at the time, I liked both the 49ers and the Bengals), and most of that long run of NFC dominance were blowout games.

Also, straight-ahead placekickers look so weird!

And the single bar facemask!

Yup.  Kickers, punters and Joe Thiesman.  The last of a now dead breed:

[bosk1]

But I don't have a specific recollection of V, or of a lot of the earlier ones, for that matter.

The first SB I have any memory of is 20, and other than Niners/Bengals and the Bills Wide Right game, my early experiences were a bunch of blowouts. But I was a kid watching with my dad, so didn't care one bit.

The first one I watched was 12.  It was great.  My newly adopted team made the Super Bowl in my first year watching football!  Woo hoo!  Little did I know I was in for years of heartbreak.  Until 32, the ONLY game won by the team I wanted to win was 16 (and that's only because, at the time, I liked both the 49ers and the Bengals), and most of that long run of NFC dominance were blowout games.

Right, I meant I didn't have specific recollections of the write-ups on those early ones.  The first one I watched was 15.  Even as an east bay kid, I didn't really like the Raiders, so I was rooting for Philadelphia.  My dad was a 49ers fan, so I adopted them as my team, even though they were pretty awful that year.  What an amazing turnaround in year 2, with such moment as The Catch and winning their first ever SB!  I'll always remember those.  Lots of others that followed are a blur just because there have been so many, and I didn't watch them all (no interest in seeing the Bills vs. the Giants, for example.  What an awful matchup)

[King Postwhore]

My 1st recollection of a SB was Dallas vs Denver.  My neighbor was the type of kid that liked teams not from the area (Hi Nick!) so I wanted every team he liked to lose.  I was petty as a kid.  LOL  So when the Steelers beat Dallas, I was thrilled.  Then I pulled for SF vs Dallas (The Catch)  I'd say that was when I was fully hooked by football. 

[Skeever]

Adam Schefter reported today that YouTube has reached a deal with the NFL so that NFL Sunday Ticket will be available as an add-on to YouTube TV starting in 2023.

This is absolutely a reason to rejoice if you like an out of market team. It will still be overpriced, but absolutely better than having to be a DirecTV subscriber.