2019 NFL Thread v. Chiefs are Champs, Missouri rules the sports world

[Stadler]

I don't disagree with you, and actually I'd be pretty happy to be a Niners fan right now.  With the one exception of the field goal, they very much played well when they had to and made big plays when they had to.  I really don't have a team in that hunt, but I can guarantee you I will be watching the rematch in a couple weeks.

I can't remember a regular season game getting that kind of scrutiny and analysis in a long time.   

[Dublagent66]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.  Those questions will always be there, but it seems like too many factors and variables to even be bother contemplating.  It was a true MNF thriller.  Those are the kinds of games that fans, analysts and other players want to watch.  Even if you're not a fan of either team, it was still awesome.  The NFL needs more games like that.

[lonestar]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.  Those questions will always be there, but it seems like too many factors and variables to even be bother contemplating.  It was a true MNF thriller.  Those are the kinds of games that fans, analysts and other players want to watch.  Even if you're not a fan of either team, it was still awesome.  The NFL needs more games like that.

Even as someone from the losing side, I completely agree. It could very well be the game of the year.

[eric42434224]

Yeah, I know, they suck.

But my Dolphins have won 2 in a row.  Ok not against top teams, but....
They are getting incrementally better every week, even as they continue to shed top talent.

I was pessimistic, and said the Dolphins will never be real contenders until they truly commit to rebuilding.  In that I mean to being ok with sucking for a while to build a great team with the draft, instead of band-aids with free agents....dooming us to mediocrity.
Well it looks like that is happening.

I also said the above means nothing without a true culture change.  We need a management that allows the coaching staff to be free to truly make cultural and systemic changes to the organization.  It appears that is what is happening.  Flores looks like the real deal, and his system and culture are starting to effect change.  VERY low penalties is one aspect to show this.  Incremental growth with the team getting better each week, with an admittedly weak talent team.

Now as a fan, I can be overly optomistic....but are we seeing the POSSIBILITY of the turnaround of a franchise?  Football was never my sport, so I am not as knowledgeable as many here.  Interested to hear your thoughts.

[Dublagent66]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.  Those questions will always be there, but it seems like too many factors and variables to even be bother contemplating.  It was a true MNF thriller.  Those are the kinds of games that fans, analysts and other players want to watch.  Even if you're not a fan of either team, it was still awesome.  The NFL needs more games like that.

Even as someone from the losing side, I completely agree. It could very well be the game of the year.

It could be.  I know it is so far.  Reminds me of the Rams/Chiefs game last year.  What a barn burner that was.  Funny how those teams are a mere shadow of their former selves this year...so far anyway.  Still a lot of football to be played.

[lonestar]

True that man, true that.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, I know, they suck.

But my Dolphins have won 2 in a row. ... 

Interested to hear your thoughts.

While the front office seemed to be in tank mode to get the top pick, it's clear that the coaching staff and players are working their asses off and trying to win.  IMO, it's hard to turn around a franchise completely without getting a franchise QB, but the Dolphins seem to have found a good coach.

[Cool Chris]

Heard Florio talking about tanking the other day. What's the point of an 0-8 team trying to win? Why not tank? Understating it is much easier to do so in other sports where 6'6 350 pound dudes aren't trying to take your heads of, or course. If you are a die-hard fan of a 2-13 team, are you dying to see them win that last game? I'm not that hardcore of a fan of any team so I am actually curious.

[eric42434224]

Heard Florio talking about tanking the other day. What's the point of an 0-8 team trying to win? Why not tank? Understating it is much easier to do so in other sports where 6'6 350 pound dudes aren't trying to take your heads of, or course. If you are a die-hard fan of a 2-13 team, are you dying to see them win that last game? I'm not that hardcore of a fan of any team so I am actually curious.

Great question.

Yes I want them to win every game.  The benefit lost by not actually 'tanking" (draft pick/s) is not as great as the benefit gained - which is the culture change of the core group of players and coaches that will be the foundation of the team going forward.  I guess I would much rather see the scenario of them creating the appropriate culture on the team and front office with a TON of draft picks and a TON of cap space coming in the next two years....even if it prevents us from getting the #1 pick.  The culture change is real and systemic.  Look at the Patriots and why they REALLY win.  SYSTEM, CULTURE, WORK ETHIC & TRUST THE PROCESS, and of course COACHING with Back Office SUPPORT.  That stuff disappears with tanking.  The Pats created that culture and helped create Brady...a 6th round pick.

Now dont get me wrong...I am not saying my Fins are the next Pats......but it looks like our coach is literally trying to re-create that culture he experienced in NE here in South Florida.  There is a huge mural on the wall at the Fins facility - TNT - Takes No Talent....they are focusing on things that take no talent....Work ethic, effort...discipline...NO PENALTIES (and that is manifesting already - LOWEST penalized team this season!!!).
What I see is an actual, legitimate, and verifiable START on the RIGHT road to success.  Not the easy way, but the hard, slow, methodical way to turn around a franchise.  Could it all implode?  Sure.  But I do like what I see so far.  This type of action gives me more optimism than any free agent ever did...because I know the culture and system were shit.  Maybe thats changing.....maybe

So my answer is HELL NO I don't want to see them tank.  I want to see them fight and scrap and work hard to do things the right way and WIN.  That way we have the foundation when we eventually do bring on the draft picks and free agents.    I don't think ANY players want to tank, as their performance every game is their resume, and their lively hood.  I just dont see them as tanking anymore.

Again, not an NFL or football expert by any means, so please keep the discussion going.  I am interested in learning.

[Dublagent66]

Good answer Eric.  Coaching a team to never give up trying to win is the right thing to do for players and maybe even more so for the coaches themselves.  Getting a #1 draft pick is nowhere near as valuable.

[Architeuthis]

Garoppolo is taking a lot of heat for the loss last night.  And, partly, that is to be expected because (1) he is the QB, and as such, he will take the heat for offensive struggles, whether deserved or not, and (2) he did look shaky at times and threw some bad passes.  I can't really argue with the criticism too much.  But what I don't see being acknowledged by the critics is that BOTH his #1 and #2 options (Kittle and Sanders) were out of the game, and the rest of the receiving corps has, unfortunately, been VERY inconsistent (as evidenced by 7 dropped passes last night, for example).  So, yeah, he looked shaky and tentative at times.  But he also didn't have anyone to target that he felt a high degree of confidence in either.  Thoughts?

The Seahawks defense could have got into his head a bit. I wonder if Garoppolo had nightmares about Clowney the following night.   But yeah, Garoppolo is a great qb and wasn't playing bad, just a few dropped passes. I think he will do just fine the rest of the season, even Tom Brady and Russel Wilson have bad games at times. It's the nature of the beast, so it seems a bit unfair that JG is under scrutiny.. It's a team sport and you have to be firing on all cylinders to win games like that.
 It was a fantastic game and it did come down to the kicker..  Go Hawks!!! 🏈😎

[Dream Team]

Wow Browns doing some serious head-hunting tonight. 2 guys knocked out with concussions. One guy ejected.

[Ben_Jamin]

 

What a way to end a game.

[KevShmev]

Myles Garrett ought to be in prison for doing that.

[El Barto]

Myles Garret is gonna be going away for a while. Ripping a player's helmet off and beating him with it is manly as all fuck, but definitely worthy of a multigame suspension.

And WTF with starting it in the first place? Pitt's losing ugly and Rudolph has sucked all night, so you're going to rough the guy up for good measure? And then blindside him after he's already gotten walloped? I must have missed something because that really didn't make any sense.

[jammindude]

Myles Garrett ought to be in prison for doing that.

[Dr. DTVT]

It took 23 years, but someone finally pulled a Happy Gilmore. 

Browns continue to be a complete pile of shit.  Damien Woody said criminal charges should be filed, and I agree.  There is precedent in the NHL, but it was only been the home team PD charging an opposing player.

[PowerSlave]

I thought that I was over-reacting, but now that I've seen some of your comments I'm feeling better about my reaction. MG's actions went well beyond the game of football, and should be looked at in terms that go beyond football.

To go along with this topic, hearing the "cheers" of the brown's fans during the brawl brings something home to me. I've been a life long Steeler's fan that lives in North central Ohio. I usually don't like to pick on a fan base, and I know that it doesn't apply to every fan of the team, but I've heard some of the most ignorant shit imaginable come out of some of these people when it comes to hating on other team's fans. I don't know if other people that live outside of their team's home base experience the same thing, but it makes it difficult to even mention that I'm a fan of another team when sport's topics come up in regular conversation.

After seeing this and their reaction during the infamous Jacksonville game many years ago, it makes it that much more difficult to have any respect for them.

[KevShmev]

Eh, past incidents aside, I cannot hold Browns fans cheering for their team in the brawl against them.  The odds that most of the fans in the stands saw what happened in real time are slim to none.  Many of us watching it on TV, with a better view, didn't see the helmet smash until the televised replay.  Heck, neither Joe Buck nor Troy Aikman realized how awful it was till seeing the replay.  Most fans in the stands were probably drunk on booze and/or celebrating the win and had no idea what started the brawl. All they saw was fighting and you are naturally going to have the back of your team.

All that said, I would suspend Garrett indefinitely (for the rest of the season and then re-visit it next summer), I would give Pouncey a game or two for the kick, and I'd be okay with fines to both Rudolph (who tried to rip off Garrett's helmet first and then escalated the situation several times before getting clubbed with his own helmet) and the Brown who clobbered Rudolph from behind when he has his arms outstretched asking for a flag after Garrett hit him with his helmet.  In fact, give that Browns player a game for that cheap shot.

Also, while Pouncey deserves a game or two for the kick, mad props to him and the other Steeler.  They did what teammates are supposed to do, which is to protect your QB, and they went after Garrett, right after the helmet smash, like he had just robbed their grandma. 

[hefdaddy42]

WTF was up with Rudolph trying to remove Garrett's helmet at first?

[Rattlehead]

Garrett should be suspended indefinitely, the last time I saw something that awful was when Chris Simon tomahawk chopped Ryan Hollweg in the head with his stick in the NHL.

I don't blame Rudolph for anything he did honestly, you can't fault the guy for defending himself... I'm glad the kid is ok.

[kaos2900]

I agree with most of what's been posted here. I think he should be arrested for assault. Honestly, the response from the NFL will determine my interest in the NFL going forward. The Brown's were bush league through out that whole game and I'm just about done watching these over paid ego maniacs prance around on a field. If he's not got gone for the rest of the season, at least, I'm done with the NFL and everything associated with. Maybe there will be a new NCAA game now that players will probably be paid for their likeness.

[El Barto]

When James Harrison says you should go to jail for your on the field conduct that really tells you something. Now we just need OJ to chime in about unnecessary roughness.

[KevShmev]

When James Harrison says you should go to jail for your on the field conduct that really tells you something. Now we just need OJ to chime in about unnecessary roughness.

I was pretty much thinking the same thing. 

[El Barto]

Yep. Mason Rudolph started it. It's only 0930 and this just made my day. 

https://twitter.com/TheRealOJ32/status/1195239233398509568?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[King Postwhore]

When James Harrison says you should go to jail for your on the field conduct that really tells you something. Now we just need OJ to chime in about unnecessary roughness.

Follow his Twitter, he just might.

[KevShmev]

OJ tweeted back before the season began that he had Antonio Brown on his fantasy team and that the nonsense going on with the Raiders at the time could hurt his team.  Poor OJ just can't catch a break.

[King Postwhore]

I saw that.

[pg1067]

There is precedent for a civil lawsuit (although it's precedent from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, and Ohio is in the Sixth Circuit).

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1250356103549125614&q=dale+hackbart&hl=en&as_sdt=4,106,120

The facts here are more egregious, but it doesn't appear that Rudolph suffered any appreciable injury.

[kaos2900]

Penalties have been released.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28087446/browns-myles-garrett-suspended-indefinitely-role-fight-vs-steelers

Rudolph banned for the rest of the season is surprising.

[KevShmev]

I think that is a typo in the article.  Garrett is the one suspended for the rest of the season, not Rudolph.

[El Barto]

Indefinite suspension and reapply next season is exactly what I was thinking last night. The Pouncy suspension is a little steep, though. What was he supposed to do? That was not a situation where you can take the Jesus approach. I can see giving him a day off so as not to officially endorse his behavior, but I'd also try to understand his limited options there.

[TAC]

You can't kick a guy in the head while a teammate is on top of him. He can't plead temp insanity.

[KevShmev]

As I said earlier, I would have given Pouncey 1-2 games. 3 does seem excessive, but given how ugly this whole incident was, they almost had to come down kind of hard on a guy who tried to kick another guy in the head.

[El Barto]

You can't kick a guy in the head while a teammate is on top of him. He can't plead temp insanity.

And you can't turn and walk away when somebody bashes your quarterback in the noggin with his helmet, either.