Author Topic: 2019 NFL Thread v. Chiefs are Champs, Missouri rules the sports world (Read 124750 times)

KevShmev · « **on:** February 12, 2019, 07:03:21 AM »

Let's do this.

Previous threads:

2018 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=51825.0
2017 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=49579.0
2016 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45952.0
2015 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43237.0
2014 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=40900.0
2013 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36033.0
2012 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=31774.0

cramx3 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2019, 08:00:32 AM »

I'd be cool with the Giants drafting Haskins

KevShmev · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2019, 08:02:14 AM »

I'd be cool with the Broncos getting a QB worth a darn and fixing their offensive line.

El Barto · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2019, 08:24:01 AM »

So, what is everybody's team going to do in the next 6 months? Needs? Problems?

Bill and Brady are clearly sticking around, so for NE it'll probably be largely maintenance. They're not in particularly good cap shape so I don't expect any huge FA signings. The big question is whether or not McCourty (Devin) has another year in him. Obviously he's a big part of the D, but he's also a big cap hit. If he retires it frees up ~10m. Gronk will be gone, one way or another, and that's another 10m. Gronk probably represents the biggest draft priority this year. Either a TE, or a stud receiver. Really, all of the other positions can be sorted out. They can plug anybody into the O-line and in a few weeks they'll be sound. They can turn most DBs into quality safeties. A quarterback probably won't come until the later rounds.

Gronk is also an interesting dilemma. He's clearly a fraction of the beast he once was. He's no longer Gronk. At the same time how many other players are there in the league that you'd rather have on 3rd and 10 with the game on the line? He's not going to take a 15 yard pass and run 40 yards with it anymore, but he'll always get you that 15 yards. That might be more valuable in a practical sense. It's not 12 million dollars valuable, though. Even now he's a huge asset. He's just not cost effective.

Stadler · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2019, 08:32:36 AM »

Do you do one of those vanity deals with him? $2M per and a 10 year consulting services agreement following retirement? Or did they change the rules so those now count against the cap?

Do you think Bill has a problem in terms of asst. coaches? I thought the "Linebacker's Coach and Chief Defensive Play Caller" or whatever his made-up title was is gone. Josh "I Introduce To You, The Next Head Coach Of The New England Patriots" McDaniel isn't leaving, but he needs someone to step in on D. Though, as I type this, watching that Super Bowl, maybe he doesn't, and that's the point.

kaos2900 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2019, 08:36:59 AM »

KC needs to improve on defense. Most of the 'experts' have them winning 2 of the next 5 super bowls. In order to do that they need to get some more talent in the secondary and a consistent pass rush. Offensively they're fine.

Stadler · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2019, 08:47:11 AM »

Quote from: kaos2900 on February 12, 2019, 08:36:59 AM

KC needs to improve on defense. Most of the 'experts' have them winning 2 of the next 5 super bowls. In order to do that they need to get some more talent in the secondary and a consistent pass rush. Offensively they're fine.

I'm not going to go all "Tony Romo" here (I called, very early on, that he was never going to win a Super Bowl, and likely would never play in one, either). But I don't think KC is "fine". They have a ton of talent, but they play a one-dimensional game. They aren't going to beat well-coached teams (not think JUST the Patriots, but they are in there of course) that consistently. Sean McVay is going to learn from his Super Bowl experience. Andy Reid is a seasoned veteran who has been there before; if he hasn't learned by now, it's not going to happen.

Sorry, I don't mean to piss on anyone's parade, but while they lasted longer than I thought they would (and it wasn't the spectacular flame out I was secretly hoping for), their season unfolded pretty damn close to how I predicted.

El Barto · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2019, 08:55:21 AM »

Quote from: Stadler on February 12, 2019, 08:32:36 AM

Do you do one of those vanity deals with him? $2M per and a 10 year consulting services agreement following retirement? Or did they change the rules so those now count against the cap?

Do you think Bill has a problem in terms of asst. coaches? I thought the "Linebacker's Coach and Chief Defensive Play Caller" or whatever his made-up title was is gone. Josh "I Introduce To You, The Next Head Coach Of The New England Patriots" McDaniel isn't leaving, but he needs someone to step in on D. Though, as I type this, watching that Super Bowl, maybe he doesn't, and that's the point.

Greg Schiano has already been tapped as the new DC. This actually concerns me a little bit. Not that there's a question about Schiano's qualifications, the dude's rock solid, but rather that the coordinators have always come from within. They know how things are supposed to be done in NE. Even if they came from the outside Bill could certainly "shape" them into being his kind of guy. It seems to me that they might be bringing in somebody who will take over the D in his own way.

But hey, Bill knows what he's doing.

KevShmev · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2019, 09:05:45 AM »

Quote from: El Barto on February 12, 2019, 08:24:01 AM

Gronk is also an interesting dilemma. He's clearly a fraction of the beast he once was. He's no longer Gronk. At the same time how many other players are there in the league that you'd rather have on 3rd and 10 with the game on the line? He's not going to take a 15 yard pass and run 40 yards with it anymore, but he'll always get you that 15 yards. That might be more valuable in a practical sense. It's not 12 million dollars valuable, though. Even now he's a huge asset. He's just not cost effective.

I could see Brady talking Gronk into coming back. He is too slow now to be a volume pass catcher, but like you said, he is still good for key catches in spots, and he is a beast at blocking in the running game.

Quote from: Stadler on February 12, 2019, 08:47:11 AM

I'm not going to go all "Tony Romo" here (I called, very early on, that he was never going to win a Super Bowl, and likely would never play in one, either). But I don't think KC is "fine". They have a ton of talent, but they play a one-dimensional game. They aren't going to beat well-coached teams (not think JUST the Patriots, but they are in there of course) that consistently. Sean McVay is going to learn from his Super Bowl experience. Andy Reid is a seasoned veteran who has been there before; if he hasn't learned by now, it's not going to happen.

Sorry, I don't mean to piss on anyone's parade, but while they lasted longer than I thought they would (and it wasn't the spectacular flame out I was secretly hoping for), their season unfolded pretty damn close to how I predicted.

Not really. You predicted they would choke (basically), which they did not. The first half against NE was a disaster, but for all of that "no one makes halftime adjustments like Bill Belichick" chatter, Andy Reid undressed him in the second half and wins the game, and quite possibly goes on to the win the Super Bowl, if not for Dee Ford lining up in the neutral zone.

rab7 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2019, 09:06:08 AM »

We (Texans) need to add O-Line. Watson was sacked 60+ times last year. Some of that was his fault. A bad O-Line will get you 40+ Sacks. Not throwing the ball away when you're supposed to will get you a lot of sacks. A special combination of both gets you 60+.

I long for the days of 2010-2012 when we had the best O-line unit in the league and we propelled Arian Foster to superstardom.

We finally have a QB, and we need to protect him.

A Secondary would also be nice, since Jonathan Joseph is very old, and Kareem Jackson is our only other good corner.

Stadler · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2019, 09:23:34 AM »

Quote from: KevShmev on February 12, 2019, 09:05:45 AM

Quote from: El Barto on February 12, 2019, 08:24:01 AM

Gronk is also an interesting dilemma. He's clearly a fraction of the beast he once was. He's no longer Gronk. At the same time how many other players are there in the league that you'd rather have on 3rd and 10 with the game on the line? He's not going to take a 15 yard pass and run 40 yards with it anymore, but he'll always get you that 15 yards. That might be more valuable in a practical sense. It's not 12 million dollars valuable, though. Even now he's a huge asset. He's just not cost effective.

I could see Brady talking Gronk into coming back. He is too slow now to be a volume pass catcher, but like you said, he is still good for key catches in spots, and he is a beast at blocking in the running game.

Quote from: Stadler on February 12, 2019, 08:47:11 AM
I'm not going to go all "Tony Romo" here (I called, very early on, that he was never going to win a Super Bowl, and likely would never play in one, either). But I don't think KC is "fine". They have a ton of talent, but they play a one-dimensional game. They aren't going to beat well-coached teams (not think JUST the Patriots, but they are in there of course) that consistently. Sean McVay is going to learn from his Super Bowl experience. Andy Reid is a seasoned veteran who has been there before; if he hasn't learned by now, it's not going to happen.

Sorry, I don't mean to piss on anyone's parade, but while they lasted longer than I thought they would (and it wasn't the spectacular flame out I was secretly hoping for), their season unfolded pretty damn close to how I predicted.

Not really. You predicted they would choke (basically), which they did not. The first half against NE was a disaster, but for all of that "no one makes halftime adjustments like Bill Belichick" chatter, Andy Reid undressed him in the second half and wins the game, and quite possibly goes on to the win the Super Bowl, if not for Dee Ford lining up in the neutral zone.

But he did, and they didn't. If KC answered the bell in the first quarter Dee Ford wouldn't have mattered.

Look, one time in 18 years? Yeah, that's luck. But you can go through every one of NE's Super Bowls - wins AND losses - and point to "one play". That's football. The Patriots have "one played" themselves to one of the greatest championship records of all time.

You can argue, you CERTAINLY do not have to agree with me, but Andy Reid's stack of Super Bowl rings speaks for itself (as a head coach, he has exactly the same number as I do, for the record).

KevShmev · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2019, 09:29:48 AM »

Quote from: Stadler on February 12, 2019, 09:23:34 AM

But he did, and they didn't. If KC answered the bell in the first quarter Dee Ford wouldn't have mattered.

Look, one time in 18 years? Yeah, that's luck. But you can go through every one of NE's Super Bowls - wins AND losses - and point to "one play". That's football. The Patriots have "one played" themselves to one of the greatest championship records of all time.

You can argue, you CERTAINLY do not have to agree with me, but Andy Reid's stack of Super Bowl rings speaks for itself (as a head coach, he has exactly the same number as I do, for the record).

Things happen how they happen; I get it. I simply do not agree with your overall assessment of Andy Reid.

Anthony Lynn is considered one of the best "newer" head coaches in the NFL..and he got completely undressed by Belichick in the divisional round.

Sean McVay already has a bust being prepared for his eventual Hall of Fame induction...and he got completely undressed by Belichick in the Super Bowl.

So while at the time I thought, "Andy Reid doesn't deserve my support anymore," once you stand back and look at the postseason as a whole, it is hard to hold it against the three coaches who lost to the Patriots. They were simply all beaten by the GOAT head coach.

Now sure, we can look at Reid's 18 years and point to this game or point to that game, but Marv Levy and Marty Schottenheimer also never won a Super Bowl, and those guys were damn fine coaches as well. Timing and luck sometimes prevent the greats for winning the big one (see: Marino never winning a Super Bowl).

Stadler · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2019, 09:41:04 AM »

Quote from: KevShmev on February 12, 2019, 09:29:48 AM

So while at the time I thought, "Andy Reid doesn't deserve my support anymore," once you stand back and look at the postseason as a whole, it is hard to hold it against the three coaches who lost to the Patriots. They were simply all beaten by the GOAT head coach.

Now sure, we can look at Reid's 18 years and point to this game or point to that game, but Marv Levy and Marty Schottenheimer also never won a Super Bowl, and those guys were damn fine coaches as well. Timing and luck sometimes prevent the greats for winning the big one (see: Marino never winning a Super Bowl).

Well, two things: One, I admittedly put a lot of stock in winning the championship. I think Levy and Schottenheimer were good, not great coaches. I think Marino is an anomaly. I can't deny his stats, but he's Dan Fouts and Warren Moon and Philip Rivers (there are a LOT of similarities with Phillip Rivers, who will also never win a Super Bowl). He's not a champion. If I'm starting a football team, he's not in my top ten of QBs that I select to be my corner stone. I take Snake Stabler over Marino every day of the week.

Two, I think Sean McVay and Anthony Lynn are not in the same boat as Andy Reid. They are learning. Andy has been there, and I get that this is cold, but I just don't see him as a championship coach. You can't really say "well, they got beat by the GOAT"; sure, they did, but you have to beat the champion to BE the champion. You and I can quibble about what "fold" means, but I feel comfortable with my prediction. 100% accurate? No, but close enough.

pg1067 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2019, 10:31:14 AM »

Quote from: KevShmev on February 12, 2019, 08:02:14 AM

I'd be cool with the Broncos getting a QB worth a darn and fixing their offensive line.

This. Keenum is fine until an opportunity to get a franchise QB comes along, but nothing will change on the offensive side of the ball until the line gets a lot better. I keep seeing draft projections that have the Broncos taking a CB, and I'm really hoping they're full of shit.

Dream Team · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2019, 10:55:02 AM »

The Rooney, Colbert, and Tomlin shit circus continues in Pittsburgh. Still no answers on Bell and Brown. Defensive replacement for Shazier? Still waiting. What a joke. Will be a tough division next year with Cleveland finally being relevant.

Edit: Are people really saying McVay got beat by Brady? Good lord

. Belichick: yes. Michel and the O-Line: yes. Defense: hell yes.

T-ski · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2019, 11:16:59 AM »

per twitter...

Antonio Brown
Verified account
Thank you SteelerNation for a big 9 years...time to move on and forward..........✌🏽 #NewDemands

Adam Schefter
Verified account
Antonio Brown has not been traded nor has he been released. But Brown wants a trade and he officially has requested that from the Steelers, per source.

mikeyd23 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2019, 11:20:46 AM »

Quote from: T-ski on February 12, 2019, 11:16:59 AM

per twitter...

Antonio Brown
Verified account
Thank you SteelerNation for a big 9 years...time to move on and forward..........✌🏽 #NewDemands

Adam Schefter
Verified account
Antonio Brown has not been traded nor has he been released. But Brown wants a trade and he officially has requested that from the Steelers, per source.

Thank the lord, please make that freaking trade, Steelers. I don't care if you get nothing for him at this point.

lordxizor · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2019, 11:30:15 AM »

The Vikings need an upgrade of O-line. Otherwise it seems like all their players are pretty good. They just need to perform to their full potential.

rab7 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2019, 12:14:52 PM »

Quote from: Dream Team on February 12, 2019, 10:55:02 AM

Edit: Are people really saying McVay got beat by Brady? Good lord . Belichick: yes. Michel and the O-Line: yes. Defense: hell yes.

Brady wasn't even going against McVay. He was fighting Wade Phillips.

El Barto · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2019, 12:36:57 PM »

Quote from: Stadler on February 12, 2019, 09:41:04 AM

Well, two things: One, I admittedly put a lot of stock in winning the championship. I think Levy and Schottenheimer were good, not great coaches. I think Marino is an anomaly. I can't deny his stats, but he's Dan Fouts and Warren Moon and Philip Rivers (there are a LOT of similarities with Phillip Rivers, who will also never win a Super Bowl). He's not a champion. If I'm starting a football team, he's not in my top ten of QBs that I select to be my corner stone. I take Snake Stabler over Marino every day of the week.

Damn, dude, that's really a terrible metric. A lot of mediocre quarterbacks have won championships. You're taking Stabler, who had one pretty good season, over a guy with a sustained history of excellence. Stabler was a 59.8% passer. He threw more picks than TDs. Averaged 150 yd/g. Marino is Marino. Winning SBs is insanely hard, and requires a bit of luck as well as great talent. Stabler had a lot more of one than the other.

pg1067 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2019, 01:37:25 PM »

Quote from: El Barto on February 12, 2019, 12:36:57 PM

Quote from: Stadler on February 12, 2019, 09:41:04 AM
Well, two things: One, I admittedly put a lot of stock in winning the championship. I think Levy and Schottenheimer were good, not great coaches. I think Marino is an anomaly. I can't deny his stats, but he's Dan Fouts and Warren Moon and Philip Rivers (there are a LOT of similarities with Phillip Rivers, who will also never win a Super Bowl). He's not a champion. If I'm starting a football team, he's not in my top ten of QBs that I select to be my corner stone. I take Snake Stabler over Marino every day of the week.
Damn, dude, that's really a terrible metric. A lot of mediocre quarterbacks have won championships. You're taking Stabler, who had one pretty good season, over a guy with a sustained history of excellence. Stabler was a 59.8% passer. He threw more picks than TDs. Averaged 150 yd/g. Marino is Marino. Winning SBs is insanely hard, and requires a bit of luck as well as great talent. Stabler had a lot more of one than the other.

Waiting for the "but Stabler is in the Hall of Fame" retort (I agree with Bart, btw).

King Postwhore · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2019, 01:48:12 PM »

The SB's are the cherry on the top of the HOF sunday.

Well, in Brady's case, He'll need a bigger dish.

Stadler · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2019, 02:32:02 PM »

Quote from: El Barto on February 12, 2019, 12:36:57 PM

Quote from: Stadler on February 12, 2019, 09:41:04 AM
Well, two things: One, I admittedly put a lot of stock in winning the championship. I think Levy and Schottenheimer were good, not great coaches. I think Marino is an anomaly. I can't deny his stats, but he's Dan Fouts and Warren Moon and Philip Rivers (there are a LOT of similarities with Phillip Rivers, who will also never win a Super Bowl). He's not a champion. If I'm starting a football team, he's not in my top ten of QBs that I select to be my corner stone. I take Snake Stabler over Marino every day of the week.
Damn, dude, that's really a terrible metric. A lot of mediocre quarterbacks have won championships. You're taking Stabler, who had one pretty good season, over a guy with a sustained history of excellence. Stabler was a 59.8% passer. He threw more picks than TDs. Averaged 150 yd/g. Marino is Marino. Winning SBs is insanely hard, and requires a bit of luck as well as great talent. Stabler had a lot more of one than the other.

My life-long friend and former roommate is a die-hard Marino fan. We have been having the "Who's better: Marino or Phil Simms" debate now for DECADES. (And no, as a stand-alone QB, all things considered, Phil Simms is NOT a better quarterback than Dan Marino).

But what's the point of the team, of the games, of the playoffs? Do Tim McKyer or Louis Oliver get any satisfaction from Marino 865,439 touchdown passes, or 56,988 miles passing? I don't think there is all luck involved; maybe in terms of one game, MAYBE in terms of a playoff run, but over time, over history? I don't think Ken Stabler was "lucky" (and even if he was, luck runs both ways: Immaculate Reception) and Dan Marino was not.

I also think - and this is debatable, to be sure - there is a thing called "clubhouse". It's why Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy have only one ring apiece despite having first ballot Hall Of Fame QBs on their team. I think QBs contribute to that; I think guys like Marino and Rivers - you watch any game; you can tell the score and time in the game by the degree to which they're barking at their teammates in the huddle.

El Barto · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2019, 03:06:54 PM »

Next time you're in town I expect to see you wearing your Dilfer jersey.

King Postwhore · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2019, 03:20:27 PM »

That's low man, low.

max_security · « **Reply #25 on:** February 12, 2019, 03:59:28 PM »

Quote from: El Barto on February 12, 2019, 03:06:54 PM

Next time you're in town I expect to see you wearing your Dilfer jersey.

That's one that you don't see often , I have a Matt Stover that still fits I believe. Edit : shoot sorry I wasn't paying attention to the convo , I thought it was a slight on my team overall , lol. He was barely a warm body but that's what we tend to get at that position in bmore.

KevShmev · « **Reply #26 on:** February 12, 2019, 07:26:05 PM »

Quote from: El Barto on February 12, 2019, 03:06:54 PM

Next time you're in town I expect to see you wearing your Dilfer jersey.

PowerSlave · « **Reply #27 on:** February 12, 2019, 07:27:32 PM »

I used to have a Trent Dilfer jersey...then I ran low on toilet paper. It was either the jersey, or an old Motley Crue t-shit. That was one of the hardest decisions that I've ever had to make.

KevShmev · « **Reply #28 on:** February 12, 2019, 07:29:15 PM »

Did you have to kickstart your shart? #badjoke

TAC · « **Reply #29 on:** February 12, 2019, 07:36:37 PM »

Shit At The Devil.

PowerSlave · « **Reply #30 on:** February 12, 2019, 07:55:44 PM »

Quote from: TAC on February 12, 2019, 07:36:37 PM

Shit At The Devil.

Quote from: KevShmev on February 12, 2019, 07:29:15 PM

Did you have to kickstart your shart? #badjoke

Still better than the song!!!

Stadler · « **Reply #31 on:** February 13, 2019, 08:37:14 AM »

Quote from: El Barto on February 12, 2019, 03:06:54 PM

Next time you're in town I expect to see you wearing your Dilfer jersey.

HAHA, can I go with Jeff Hostetler instead?

Destiny Of Chaos · « **Reply #32 on:** February 13, 2019, 09:22:55 AM »

Schefter breaking the news that Denver is trying to get Flacco!

rab7 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 13, 2019, 09:26:55 AM »

Quote from: Destiny Of Chaos on February 13, 2019, 09:22:55 AM

Schefter breaking the news that Denver is trying to get Flacco!

They already have him I thought

Destiny Of Chaos · « **Reply #34 on:** February 13, 2019, 09:30:46 AM »

Quote from: rab7 on February 13, 2019, 09:26:55 AM

Quote from: Destiny Of Chaos on February 13, 2019, 09:22:55 AM
Schefter breaking the news that Denver is trying to get Flacco!

They already have him I thought

Seems like they do.

News: Video of online chat between fans and members of Dream Theater: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx8cLlXnHpA&feature=youtu.be (*no chickens were harmed during the filming of this chat)

Author Topic: 2019 NFL Thread v. Chiefs are Champs, Missouri rules the sports world (Read 124750 times)