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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: KevShmev on February 12, 2019, 07:03:21 AM
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Let's do this. :coolio
Previous threads:
2018 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=51825.0
2017 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=49579.0
2016 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45952.0
2015 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43237.0
2014 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=40900.0
2013 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36033.0
2012 NFL THREAD - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=31774.0
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I'd be cool with the Giants drafting Haskins
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I'd be cool with the Broncos getting a QB worth a darn and fixing their offensive line.
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So, what is everybody's team going to do in the next 6 months? Needs? Problems?
Bill and Brady are clearly sticking around, so for NE it'll probably be largely maintenance. They're not in particularly good cap shape so I don't expect any huge FA signings. The big question is whether or not McCourty (Devin) has another year in him. Obviously he's a big part of the D, but he's also a big cap hit. If he retires it frees up ~10m. Gronk will be gone, one way or another, and that's another 10m. Gronk probably represents the biggest draft priority this year. Either a TE, or a stud receiver. Really, all of the other positions can be sorted out. They can plug anybody into the O-line and in a few weeks they'll be sound. They can turn most DBs into quality safeties. A quarterback probably won't come until the later rounds.
Gronk is also an interesting dilemma. He's clearly a fraction of the beast he once was. He's no longer Gronk. At the same time how many other players are there in the league that you'd rather have on 3rd and 10 with the game on the line? He's not going to take a 15 yard pass and run 40 yards with it anymore, but he'll always get you that 15 yards. That might be more valuable in a practical sense. It's not 12 million dollars valuable, though. Even now he's a huge asset. He's just not cost effective.
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Do you do one of those vanity deals with him? $2M per and a 10 year consulting services agreement following retirement? Or did they change the rules so those now count against the cap?
Do you think Bill has a problem in terms of asst. coaches? I thought the "Linebacker's Coach and Chief Defensive Play Caller" or whatever his made-up title was is gone. Josh "I Introduce To You, The Next Head Coach Of The New England Patriots" McDaniel isn't leaving, but he needs someone to step in on D. Though, as I type this, watching that Super Bowl, maybe he doesn't, and that's the point. :)
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KC needs to improve on defense. Most of the 'experts' have them winning 2 of the next 5 super bowls. In order to do that they need to get some more talent in the secondary and a consistent pass rush. Offensively they're fine.
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KC needs to improve on defense. Most of the 'experts' have them winning 2 of the next 5 super bowls. In order to do that they need to get some more talent in the secondary and a consistent pass rush. Offensively they're fine.
I'm not going to go all "Tony Romo" here (I called, very early on, that he was never going to win a Super Bowl, and likely would never play in one, either). But I don't think KC is "fine". They have a ton of talent, but they play a one-dimensional game. They aren't going to beat well-coached teams (not think JUST the Patriots, but they are in there of course) that consistently. Sean McVay is going to learn from his Super Bowl experience. Andy Reid is a seasoned veteran who has been there before; if he hasn't learned by now, it's not going to happen.
Sorry, I don't mean to piss on anyone's parade, but while they lasted longer than I thought they would (and it wasn't the spectacular flame out I was secretly hoping for), their season unfolded pretty damn close to how I predicted.
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Do you do one of those vanity deals with him? $2M per and a 10 year consulting services agreement following retirement? Or did they change the rules so those now count against the cap?
Do you think Bill has a problem in terms of asst. coaches? I thought the "Linebacker's Coach and Chief Defensive Play Caller" or whatever his made-up title was is gone. Josh "I Introduce To You, The Next Head Coach Of The New England Patriots" McDaniel isn't leaving, but he needs someone to step in on D. Though, as I type this, watching that Super Bowl, maybe he doesn't, and that's the point. :)
Greg Schiano has already been tapped as the new DC. This actually concerns me a little bit. Not that there's a question about Schiano's qualifications, the dude's rock solid, but rather that the coordinators have always come from within. They know how things are supposed to be done in NE. Even if they came from the outside Bill could certainly "shape" them into being his kind of guy. It seems to me that they might be bringing in somebody who will take over the D in his own way.
But hey, Bill knows what he's doing.
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Gronk is also an interesting dilemma. He's clearly a fraction of the beast he once was. He's no longer Gronk. At the same time how many other players are there in the league that you'd rather have on 3rd and 10 with the game on the line? He's not going to take a 15 yard pass and run 40 yards with it anymore, but he'll always get you that 15 yards. That might be more valuable in a practical sense. It's not 12 million dollars valuable, though. Even now he's a huge asset. He's just not cost effective.
I could see Brady talking Gronk into coming back. He is too slow now to be a volume pass catcher, but like you said, he is still good for key catches in spots, and he is a beast at blocking in the running game.
I'm not going to go all "Tony Romo" here (I called, very early on, that he was never going to win a Super Bowl, and likely would never play in one, either). But I don't think KC is "fine". They have a ton of talent, but they play a one-dimensional game. They aren't going to beat well-coached teams (not think JUST the Patriots, but they are in there of course) that consistently. Sean McVay is going to learn from his Super Bowl experience. Andy Reid is a seasoned veteran who has been there before; if he hasn't learned by now, it's not going to happen.
Sorry, I don't mean to piss on anyone's parade, but while they lasted longer than I thought they would (and it wasn't the spectacular flame out I was secretly hoping for), their season unfolded pretty damn close to how I predicted.
Not really. You predicted they would choke (basically), which they did not. The first half against NE was a disaster, but for all of that "no one makes halftime adjustments like Bill Belichick" chatter, Andy Reid undressed him in the second half and wins the game, and quite possibly goes on to the win the Super Bowl, if not for Dee Ford lining up in the neutral zone.
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We (Texans) need to add O-Line. Watson was sacked 60+ times last year. Some of that was his fault. A bad O-Line will get you 40+ Sacks. Not throwing the ball away when you're supposed to will get you a lot of sacks. A special combination of both gets you 60+.
I long for the days of 2010-2012 when we had the best O-line unit in the league and we propelled Arian Foster to superstardom.
We finally have a QB, and we need to protect him.
A Secondary would also be nice, since Jonathan Joseph is very old, and Kareem Jackson is our only other good corner.
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Gronk is also an interesting dilemma. He's clearly a fraction of the beast he once was. He's no longer Gronk. At the same time how many other players are there in the league that you'd rather have on 3rd and 10 with the game on the line? He's not going to take a 15 yard pass and run 40 yards with it anymore, but he'll always get you that 15 yards. That might be more valuable in a practical sense. It's not 12 million dollars valuable, though. Even now he's a huge asset. He's just not cost effective.
I could see Brady talking Gronk into coming back. He is too slow now to be a volume pass catcher, but like you said, he is still good for key catches in spots, and he is a beast at blocking in the running game.
I'm not going to go all "Tony Romo" here (I called, very early on, that he was never going to win a Super Bowl, and likely would never play in one, either). But I don't think KC is "fine". They have a ton of talent, but they play a one-dimensional game. They aren't going to beat well-coached teams (not think JUST the Patriots, but they are in there of course) that consistently. Sean McVay is going to learn from his Super Bowl experience. Andy Reid is a seasoned veteran who has been there before; if he hasn't learned by now, it's not going to happen.
Sorry, I don't mean to piss on anyone's parade, but while they lasted longer than I thought they would (and it wasn't the spectacular flame out I was secretly hoping for), their season unfolded pretty damn close to how I predicted.
Not really. You predicted they would choke (basically), which they did not. The first half against NE was a disaster, but for all of that "no one makes halftime adjustments like Bill Belichick" chatter, Andy Reid undressed him in the second half and wins the game, and quite possibly goes on to the win the Super Bowl, if not for Dee Ford lining up in the neutral zone.
But he did, and they didn't. If KC answered the bell in the first quarter Dee Ford wouldn't have mattered.
Look, one time in 18 years? Yeah, that's luck. But you can go through every one of NE's Super Bowls - wins AND losses - and point to "one play". That's football. The Patriots have "one played" themselves to one of the greatest championship records of all time.
You can argue, you CERTAINLY do not have to agree with me, but Andy Reid's stack of Super Bowl rings speaks for itself (as a head coach, he has exactly the same number as I do, for the record).
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But he did, and they didn't. If KC answered the bell in the first quarter Dee Ford wouldn't have mattered.
Look, one time in 18 years? Yeah, that's luck. But you can go through every one of NE's Super Bowls - wins AND losses - and point to "one play". That's football. The Patriots have "one played" themselves to one of the greatest championship records of all time.
You can argue, you CERTAINLY do not have to agree with me, but Andy Reid's stack of Super Bowl rings speaks for itself (as a head coach, he has exactly the same number as I do, for the record).
Things happen how they happen; I get it. I simply do not agree with your overall assessment of Andy Reid.
Anthony Lynn is considered one of the best "newer" head coaches in the NFL..and he got completely undressed by Belichick in the divisional round.
Sean McVay already has a bust being prepared for his eventual Hall of Fame induction...and he got completely undressed by Belichick in the Super Bowl.
So while at the time I thought, "Andy Reid doesn't deserve my support anymore," once you stand back and look at the postseason as a whole, it is hard to hold it against the three coaches who lost to the Patriots. They were simply all beaten by the GOAT head coach.
Now sure, we can look at Reid's 18 years and point to this game or point to that game, but Marv Levy and Marty Schottenheimer also never won a Super Bowl, and those guys were damn fine coaches as well. Timing and luck sometimes prevent the greats for winning the big one (see: Marino never winning a Super Bowl).
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So while at the time I thought, "Andy Reid doesn't deserve my support anymore," once you stand back and look at the postseason as a whole, it is hard to hold it against the three coaches who lost to the Patriots. They were simply all beaten by the GOAT head coach.
Now sure, we can look at Reid's 18 years and point to this game or point to that game, but Marv Levy and Marty Schottenheimer also never won a Super Bowl, and those guys were damn fine coaches as well. Timing and luck sometimes prevent the greats for winning the big one (see: Marino never winning a Super Bowl).
Well, two things: One, I admittedly put a lot of stock in winning the championship. I think Levy and Schottenheimer were good, not great coaches. I think Marino is an anomaly. I can't deny his stats, but he's Dan Fouts and Warren Moon and Philip Rivers (there are a LOT of similarities with Phillip Rivers, who will also never win a Super Bowl). He's not a champion. If I'm starting a football team, he's not in my top ten of QBs that I select to be my corner stone. I take Snake Stabler over Marino every day of the week.
Two, I think Sean McVay and Anthony Lynn are not in the same boat as Andy Reid. They are learning. Andy has been there, and I get that this is cold, but I just don't see him as a championship coach. You can't really say "well, they got beat by the GOAT"; sure, they did, but you have to beat the champion to BE the champion. You and I can quibble about what "fold" means, but I feel comfortable with my prediction. 100% accurate? No, but close enough.
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I'd be cool with the Broncos getting a QB worth a darn and fixing their offensive line.
This. Keenum is fine until an opportunity to get a franchise QB comes along, but nothing will change on the offensive side of the ball until the line gets a lot better. I keep seeing draft projections that have the Broncos taking a CB, and I'm really hoping they're full of shit.
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The Rooney, Colbert, and Tomlin shit circus continues in Pittsburgh. Still no answers on Bell and Brown. Defensive replacement for Shazier? Still waiting. What a joke. Will be a tough division next year with Cleveland finally being relevant.
Edit: Are people really saying McVay got beat by Brady? Good lord :facepalm:. Belichick: yes. Michel and the O-Line: yes. Defense: hell yes.
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per twitter...
Antonio Brown
Verified account
Thank you SteelerNation for a big 9 years...time to move on and forward..........✌🏽 #NewDemands
Adam Schefter
Verified account
Antonio Brown has not been traded nor has he been released. But Brown wants a trade and he officially has requested that from the Steelers, per source.
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per twitter...
Antonio Brown
Verified account
Thank you SteelerNation for a big 9 years...time to move on and forward..........✌🏽 #NewDemands
Adam Schefter
Verified account
Antonio Brown has not been traded nor has he been released. But Brown wants a trade and he officially has requested that from the Steelers, per source.
Thank the lord, please make that freaking trade, Steelers. I don't care if you get nothing for him at this point.
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The Vikings need an upgrade of O-line. Otherwise it seems like all their players are pretty good. They just need to perform to their full potential.
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Edit: Are people really saying McVay got beat by Brady? Good lord :facepalm:. Belichick: yes. Michel and the O-Line: yes. Defense: hell yes.
Brady wasn't even going against McVay. He was fighting Wade Phillips.
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Well, two things: One, I admittedly put a lot of stock in winning the championship. I think Levy and Schottenheimer were good, not great coaches. I think Marino is an anomaly. I can't deny his stats, but he's Dan Fouts and Warren Moon and Philip Rivers (there are a LOT of similarities with Phillip Rivers, who will also never win a Super Bowl). He's not a champion. If I'm starting a football team, he's not in my top ten of QBs that I select to be my corner stone. I take Snake Stabler over Marino every day of the week.
Damn, dude, that's really a terrible metric. A lot of mediocre quarterbacks have won championships. You're taking Stabler, who had one pretty good season, over a guy with a sustained history of excellence. Stabler was a 59.8% passer. He threw more picks than TDs. Averaged 150 yd/g. Marino is Marino. Winning SBs is insanely hard, and requires a bit of luck as well as great talent. Stabler had a lot more of one than the other.
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Well, two things: One, I admittedly put a lot of stock in winning the championship. I think Levy and Schottenheimer were good, not great coaches. I think Marino is an anomaly. I can't deny his stats, but he's Dan Fouts and Warren Moon and Philip Rivers (there are a LOT of similarities with Phillip Rivers, who will also never win a Super Bowl). He's not a champion. If I'm starting a football team, he's not in my top ten of QBs that I select to be my corner stone. I take Snake Stabler over Marino every day of the week.
Damn, dude, that's really a terrible metric. A lot of mediocre quarterbacks have won championships. You're taking Stabler, who had one pretty good season, over a guy with a sustained history of excellence. Stabler was a 59.8% passer. He threw more picks than TDs. Averaged 150 yd/g. Marino is Marino. Winning SBs is insanely hard, and requires a bit of luck as well as great talent. Stabler had a lot more of one than the other.
Waiting for the "but Stabler is in the Hall of Fame" retort (I agree with Bart, btw).
:corn
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The SB's are the cherry on the top of the HOF sunday.
Well, in Brady's case, He'll need a bigger dish.
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Well, two things: One, I admittedly put a lot of stock in winning the championship. I think Levy and Schottenheimer were good, not great coaches. I think Marino is an anomaly. I can't deny his stats, but he's Dan Fouts and Warren Moon and Philip Rivers (there are a LOT of similarities with Phillip Rivers, who will also never win a Super Bowl). He's not a champion. If I'm starting a football team, he's not in my top ten of QBs that I select to be my corner stone. I take Snake Stabler over Marino every day of the week.
Damn, dude, that's really a terrible metric. A lot of mediocre quarterbacks have won championships. You're taking Stabler, who had one pretty good season, over a guy with a sustained history of excellence. Stabler was a 59.8% passer. He threw more picks than TDs. Averaged 150 yd/g. Marino is Marino. Winning SBs is insanely hard, and requires a bit of luck as well as great talent. Stabler had a lot more of one than the other.
My life-long friend and former roommate is a die-hard Marino fan. We have been having the "Who's better: Marino or Phil Simms" debate now for DECADES. (And no, as a stand-alone QB, all things considered, Phil Simms is NOT a better quarterback than Dan Marino).
But what's the point of the team, of the games, of the playoffs? Do Tim McKyer or Louis Oliver get any satisfaction from Marino 865,439 touchdown passes, or 56,988 miles passing? I don't think there is all luck involved; maybe in terms of one game, MAYBE in terms of a playoff run, but over time, over history? I don't think Ken Stabler was "lucky" (and even if he was, luck runs both ways: Immaculate Reception) and Dan Marino was not.
I also think - and this is debatable, to be sure - there is a thing called "clubhouse". It's why Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy have only one ring apiece despite having first ballot Hall Of Fame QBs on their team. I think QBs contribute to that; I think guys like Marino and Rivers - you watch any game; you can tell the score and time in the game by the degree to which they're barking at their teammates in the huddle.
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Next time you're in town I expect to see you wearing your Dilfer jersey.
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That's low man, low. :lol
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Next time you're in town I expect to see you wearing your Dilfer jersey.
That's one that you don't see often , I have a Matt Stover that still fits I believe. Edit : shoot sorry I wasn't paying attention to the convo , I thought it was a slight on my team overall , lol. He was barely a warm body but that's what we tend to get at that position in bmore.
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Next time you're in town I expect to see you wearing your Dilfer jersey.
:lol :lol
:tup :tup
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I used to have a Trent Dilfer jersey...then I ran low on toilet paper. It was either the jersey, or an old Motley Crue t-shit. That was one of the hardest decisions that I've ever had to make.
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Did you have to kickstart your shart? #badjoke
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Shit At The Devil.
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Shit At The Devil.
:lol
Did you have to kickstart your shart? #badjoke
Still better than the song!!! :lol
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Next time you're in town I expect to see you wearing your Dilfer jersey.
HAHA, can I go with Jeff Hostetler instead? :)
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Schefter breaking the news that Denver is trying to get Flacco!
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Schefter breaking the news that Denver is trying to get Flacco!
They already have him I thought
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Schefter breaking the news that Denver is trying to get Flacco!
They already have him I thought
Seems like they do.
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John Elway is officially senile. :facepalm:
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John Elway is officially senile. :facepalm:
Is this trying to go to the well too many times? "Hey, I won two Super Bowls at the twilight of my career, we won one with Peyton on his last leg, let's go for three!!!"
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https://sports.yahoo.com/dak-prescott-cites-gisele-bundchen-reason-not-give-cowboys-tom-brady-discount-010836103.html
Not sure what to make of this. Gut says, I don't like it, for several reasons (none of which have anything to do with throwing shade at "my boy Tom").
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While I don't begrudge guys wanting to get paid, quarterbacks who insist on their team breaking the bank to sign them care more about getting paid than winning. If your QB makes a zillion dollars, good luck keeping them surrounded with enough talent to win consistently.
Also, I agree with what Cowherd said about this the other day. There are two things you don't talk about when it comes to other players: their wives and their money. And Prescott talked about both. :facepalm:
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John Elway is officially senile. :facepalm:
If he thinks that, without improving the offensive line, Flacco is a significant upgrade over Keenum, he sure is.
https://sports.yahoo.com/dak-prescott-cites-gisele-bundchen-reason-not-give-cowboys-tom-brady-discount-010836103.html
Not sure what to make of this. Gut says, I don't like it, for several reasons (none of which have anything to do with throwing shade at "my boy Tom").
Aside from the whole maximize your salary versus improve your team debate, that is a phenomenally dumbass thing to say.
Also, over the past 10 seasons, a team with a top 5 highest paid quarterback (based on salary cap value) was more likely to miss the playoffs than make the playoffs (21 of 50 made the playoffs). Of the 21, 14 were named Brady, Manning, Brees or Roethlisberger. Not once during that time did the highest paid QB win the Super Bowl, and only once (Peyton Manning in SB44) did the highest QB even make it to the Super Bowl.
Source: www.overthecap.com
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While I don't begrudge guys wanting to get paid, quarterbacks who insist on their team breaking the bank to sign them care more about getting paid than winning. If your QB makes a zillion dollars, good luck keeping them surrounded with enough talent to win consistently.
Yup. I got into an argument with my commie brother, a Saints fan, about this a few years ago. "Drew Brees should squeeze every fucking cent he can out of the Benson's!" Well, he kind of is. He's making more than 20 million a year. ""How is he supposed to throw the ball if he doesn't have any time because his line sucks!" Well, yeah. Good question. :lol All of this because I suggested he should take a cap friendly deal when he was being a hardass.
And Dak should worry about his own contract. He needs to step it up if he wants to make the money he thinks he should.
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And Dak should worry about his own contract. He needs to step it up if he wants to make the money he thinks he should.
Given the man crush Jerry Jones has on him, he probably figures he's gonna get paid no matter what. And he's probably right.
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And Dak should worry about his own contract. He needs to step it up if he wants to make the money he thinks he should.
Given the man crush Jerry Jones has on him, he probably figures he's gonna get paid no matter what. And he's probably right.
Which is why we won't have to worry about Dallas playing too deep into the winter any time soon.
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Dak is an odd one in that he looks shaky at times, and rarely plays a great full 60 minutes, but give him the ball at the end with the game on the line and he just finds a way to make plays.
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I had imagined Flacco just being cut and calling it a day , son of a gun Denver huh. I wish him the best I suppose , he sure can throw when he is motivated.
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Do you think Denver remembers this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOeL1D8vMiI
We saw the kid as a junior as a Blue Hen when my stepdaughter attended Delaware. Took them to the 1AA title game, beat Navy, ...stunned and quite happy when the Ravens drafted him. We have tons of good, tons of not so good, and, well....if him and his agent would have taken a smaller salary while dissing on the pretext of 'I just want to win' BS, Baltimore would have fared much better under his contract.
That said, we loved the guy, overlooked his flaws because he WAS a winner. I mentioned months ago that it was time to move on. Don't care to discuss or debate the 'elite' crap (because he wasn't). But he was the best this town had seen since Bert Jones and that guy with the crew cut that came before him.
I had surgery a few months before this play, jumped higher than I had in years and reinjured myself. Oh, the sweet agony!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmRYZOuXHrA
I just replayed the winning kick in that game.....and this old man jumped out of his chair and got tears in his eyes again. Equals the Detroit Tigers winning the WS in 68 and 84, Magic and Kelser and Jud winning the NCAA in '79, certain Central Michigan wins, and wins by Bo over Woody, along with the Ravens win over the Pats and then the SB (plus all those wins after agonizing losses against the Steelers during Joe's years). I never came close to having those moments as a Lions fan in Michigan. Probably won't again due to 'stuff'. But, damn, what a weird ride.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjNHz3IqkUI
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Do you think Denver remembers this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOeL1D8vMiI
>:( >:( >:(
Absolutely abysmal defense on that play. I was screaming "NO!!!!!!"
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I just know what play it is and refuse to watch.
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And Dak should worry about his own contract. He needs to step it up if he wants to make the money he thinks he should.
Given the man crush Jerry Jones has on him, he probably figures he's gonna get paid no matter what. And he's probably right.
Which is why we won't have to worry about Dallas playing too deep into the winter any time soon.
Same thing happened with Tony Romo. JJ paid him too much too soon. It's the kiss of death.
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Any thoughts on the NFL and Kaepernick/Reid settlement?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26004808/everything-know-nfl-joint-collusion-grievance-settlement-colin-kaepernick-eric-reid (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26004808/everything-know-nfl-joint-collusion-grievance-settlement-colin-kaepernick-eric-reid)
Not sure what to think personally. Part of me says if he really felt like he was standing for something against the NFL, he wouldn't settle, but without knowing details, it's really hard to come to that conclusion. Also, I can't blame someone for taking a huge paycheck from the NFL to just go away even if trying to stand for something. Money talks. I'm also assuming they got paid, I think that seems likely but can't even say that for sure.
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Oh they got paid alright. Though we'll never learn the amount due to NDAs I bet.
I know the NFL, and the 32 teams are not businesses in the traditonal sense, as they have Anti-Trust Exemptions and other aspects that keep them from being Amazon, or the Mom and Pop grocery store down the street. On the surface I feel like a business should be free to hire, or not hire, whomever they want. I know there are EEOC issues, but I don't think being a SJW qualifies as a "Protected Class." If an owner decides not to hire someone that they feel would be bad for their business, I can't fully oppose that line of thinking. If they'd rather have a crap QB who isn't going to potentially negatively affect ticket sale, that is their right. No one is entitled to a job in the NFL.
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Any thoughts on the NFL and Kaepernick/Reid settlement?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26004808/everything-know-nfl-joint-collusion-grievance-settlement-colin-kaepernick-eric-reid (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26004808/everything-know-nfl-joint-collusion-grievance-settlement-colin-kaepernick-eric-reid)
Not sure what to think personally. Part of me says if he really felt like he was standing for something against the NFL, he wouldn't settle, but without knowing details, it's really hard to come to that conclusion. Also, I can't blame someone for taking a huge paycheck from the NFL to just go away even if trying to stand for something. Money talks. I'm also assuming they got paid, I think that seems likely but can't even say that for sure.
Yeah, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions. It may very well just have been about the money. But we don't know. To play devil's advocate, here's another scenario: Kaep has a lousy case that he would probably lose, and he and his representation know that. So rather than the risk to his "cause" about taking a public loss, he (and the NFL) gets to save face by settling and walking away. Even though he can't discuss the details, he is still in control of the narrative instead of the narrative being "Kaepernick lost."
I know there are EEOC issues, but I don't think being a SJW qualifies as a "Protected Class."
Well, no, but protesting a civil right is a "protected activity" that an employee cannot be retaliated against because of. And there are arguably collective bargaining rights that could be violated by league-wide collusion as well. That doesn't mean his rights to do what he wants on "company time" cannot be restricted. But this is a very different set of facts, and there are a lot of competing interests at play.
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With all that has come out this week, I feel vindicated when I suggested a while back that Ben Roethlisberger was not a good leader.
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So, doesn't repeatedly insisting that your star running back is healthy when he can barely play constitute tampering or something?
https://nypost.com/2019/02/20/we-finally-know-why-todd-gurley-disappeared-in-the-super-bowl/
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With all that has come out this week, I feel vindicated when I suggested a while back that Ben Roethlisberger was not a good leader.
Multiple upper echelon and many hall of fame players have shared a locker room with him, and the only one that has had anything to say in any kind of negative light is Hines Ward. And his commentary was equally as damning against AB.
Ben isn't a saint by any means, but he's far from being the low-life that the haters paint him as being.
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"Low-life" and "not a good leader" are not the same thing. He could be one or the other, neither, or both.
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Multiple upper echelon and many hall of fame players have shared a locker room with him, and the only one that has had anything to say in any kind of negative light is Hines Ward. And his commentary was equally as damning against AB.
Ben isn't a saint by any means, but he's far from being the low-life that the haters paint him as being.
Hines Ward and now Antonio Brown.
Don't get me wrong, Mr. Big Chest has handled this extremely poorly and is not free of blame, but Roethlisberger's flaws as a leader are pretty glaring now.
Also, has anyone here called him a low-life lately? I said "lately" because I am sure he was called that back when he was dealing with the rape accusation.
So, doesn't repeatedly insisting that your star running back is healthy when he can barely play constitute tampering or something?
https://nypost.com/2019/02/20/we-finally-know-why-todd-gurley-disappeared-in-the-super-bowl/
I am sure they will get fined for it, but as I have said many times, I have no problem with a team hiding how injured a player is. Why tell the other team if and how hurt one of your stars is? The NFL only gives a crap because of Vegas and the effect it has on gambling.
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Multiple upper echelon and many hall of fame players have shared a locker room with him, and the only one that has had anything to say in any kind of negative light is Hines Ward. And his commentary was equally as damning against AB.
Ben isn't a saint by any means, but he's far from being the low-life that the haters paint him as being.
Hines Ward and now Antonio Brown.
Don't get me wrong, Mr. Big Chest has handled this extremely poorly and is not free of blame, but Roethlisberger's flaws as a leader are pretty glaring now.
Also, has anyone here called him a low-life lately? I said "lately" because I am sure he was called that back when he was dealing with the rape accusation.
Name me 5 (just a number that I picked out of my head for no good reason) successful players at his position playing in the NFL right now without any leadership flaws.
If he wasn't playing for a successful franchise that garners a ton of attention then nobody would bat an eye.
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Name me 5 (just a number that I picked out of my head for no good reason) successful players at his position playing in the NFL right now without any leadership flaws.
If he wasn't playing for a successful franchise that garners a ton of attention then nobody would bat an eye.
Where did I say that other successful quarterbacks have no leadership flaws? I'll hang up and listen.
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Well Tom Brady. He's dreamy.
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Well Tom Brady. He's dreamy.
Flawless. :lol
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Howdy Amigos..... Forgive me please for not posting sooner. After the game, we were pretty frikken bummed to say the least. We of course realized... the potential for disappointment in going to the big game. I've purposely distanced myself in the aftermath a bit to kinda catch my breath. Going to the game was a fantastic experience...as was the whole weekend/experience. We attended the game with 4 everyday friends, and 8 other Forum friends. The weekend was brilliant overall. Especially Saturday afternoon and evening where we enjoyed the NFL Experience and surrounding activities. Including a fantastic gathering at a local downtown Atlanta bar sponsored by multiple Rams booster clubs, and Los Angeles NBC news.
Game day was also a blast... Being ticket holders we had free access to the NFL experience, which was super cool! From there we filed into the gorgeous new Mercedes Benz stadium. Now mind you... anything compared to the LA Coliseum is going to be an upgrade :lol. Still!! The stadium had some really epic views, and the concessions were great! Also.... I have to seriously give it up to the city of Atlanta. They stepped up to the plate BIG TIME!!! Everything we did during the weekend was so seamless and secure because of the planning and support. From the MARTA (metro train) through the whole downtown area, everything was covered by volunteers and support staff. Everywhere we turned, someone was there cheerful and willing to direct and help you.
The game itself, of course to us was a disappointment because of the outcome. Funny though... talking to folks around us, we thought the game was extremely exciting and tense. At the same time we were saying... "Man.. the folks watching on TV must be finding this game boring as fuck!" . But live? it was an epic defensive battle. Yeah... I woulda rather had a shoot out...lol...but.
At the end of the day.... I was horrible at photo-documenting everything. I took more vids than pics (and I don't know how to store and upload vids to this site) But here are a few pics from the weekend.
Myself and Fred Roggin... our Local Los Angeles NBC news sports guru. At the Saturday night Bar/Rally
(https://i.imgur.com/So5ctA8.jpg)
Leaving Los Angeles, LAX.... the gates were decorated in Rams colors for the occasion! Along with the gate peeps doing Rams trivia and rally stuff!
(https://i.imgur.com/djpEEKk.jpg)
Our gang on Sat night at the Ram's sponsored club...
(https://i.imgur.com/Mo8yEIP.jpg)
My better half prior to the game in front of the Mercedes Benz dome....
(https://i.imgur.com/N1FCcYC.jpg)
Halftime.....
(https://i.imgur.com/585IYG9.jpg)
Game shot....
(https://i.imgur.com/uIKZFsF.jpg)
At the end of the day.... I'm ready for the new season! Regardless of the outcome... our future is bright!
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Name me 5 (just a number that I picked out of my head for no good reason) successful players at his position playing in the NFL right now without any leadership flaws.
If he wasn't playing for a successful franchise that garners a ton of attention then nobody would bat an eye.
Where did I say that other successful quarterbacks have no leadership flaws? I'll hang up and listen.
PM sent.
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Crimson Sunrise, those pictures are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!
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Well Tom Brady. He's dreamy.
Jokes aside, I would actually not question Tom Brady's leadership. Everything I have read or heard about him tells me that he is a great teammate and leader. And unlike some stars (*cough* Aaron Rodgers *cough*), he wants to be coached.
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Well Tom Brady. He's dreamy.
Jokes aside, I would actually not question Tom Brady's leadership. Everything I have read or heard about him tells me that he is a great teammate and leader. And unlike some stars (*cough* Aaron Rodgers *cough*), he wants to be coached.
You see what Harrison said on one of those Fox shows? He wanted to hate Tom but Tom won him over with his leadership and hard work.
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Well Tom Brady. He's dreamy.
Jokes aside, I would actually not question Tom Brady's leadership. Everything I have read or heard about him tells me that he is a great teammate and leader. And unlike some stars (*cough* Aaron Rodgers *cough*), he wants to be coached.
You see what Harrison said on one of those Fox shows? He wanted to hate Tom but Tom won him over with his leadership and hard work.
Yeah, didn't Tom pick him up at the airport when he first arrived? I know he's done that for other players.
The game itself, of course to us was a disappointment because of the outcome. Funny though... talking to folks around us, we thought the game was extremely exciting and tense. At the same time we were saying... "Man.. the folks watching on TV must be finding this game boring as fuck!" . But live? it was an epic defensive battle. Yeah... I woulda rather had a shoot out...lol...but.
Yeah, I'm one of the few people who found the game exciting. Teams moving the ball at will is never as interesting as teams having to overcome fantastic Ds.
Glad you enjoyed the experience.
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So you just won another Super Bowl Mr. Kraft, what do you plan to do now?
I'm going to Disney World!
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Felate-gate.
Well Tom Brady. He's dreamy.
Jokes aside, I would actually not question Tom Brady's leadership. Everything I have read or heard about him tells me that he is a great teammate and leader. And unlike some stars (*cough* Aaron Rodgers *cough*), he wants to be coached.
You see what Harrison said on one of those Fox shows? He wanted to hate Tom but Tom won him over with his leadership and hard work.
Yeah, didn't Tom pick him up at the airport when he first arrived? I know he's done that for other players.
No but was very friendly, worked real hard and pushed others to work hard. He lead and Harrison loved it.
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So you just won another Super Bowl Mr. Kraft, what do you plan to do now?
I'm going to Disney World!
:rollin
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You see what Harrison said on one of those Fox shows? He wanted to hate Tom but Tom won him over with his leadership and hard work.
Yep. Plus, Kraft promised Harrison the hook-up at his favorite massage parlor. Happy Endings for Everybody!! :P
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I think Harrison had his own pad he could go to and shot guns as well. Yeah, I know, a double entendre. :lol
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We (Texans) need to add O-Line. Watson was sacked 60+ times last year. Some of that was his fault. A bad O-Line will get you 40+ Sacks. Not throwing the ball away when you're supposed to will get you a lot of sacks. A special combination of both gets you 60+.
I long for the days of 2010-2012 when we had the best O-line unit in the league and we propelled Arian Foster to superstardom.
We finally have a QB, and we need to protect him.
A Secondary would also be nice, since Jonathan Joseph is very old, and Kareem Jackson is our only other good corner.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on all points, and it's nice to no longer be the lone Texans fan on the forum. :)
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Love it, couldn’t happen to a better organization.
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I can see the NFL coming out with a punishment quite harsh on something like this. Probably 4-8 games where the networks are not allowed to show him while in his suite.
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:lol
It will be like Isray. 6 games he can't associate with the team and a hefty fine.
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Really great and emotional story about Trent Dilfer. I never knew he lost a son.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/trent-dilfers-journey-from-super-bowl-to-tragedy-to-nashville-high-school-coach/ar-BBTYHfF?li=BBnba9I
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Oh my I wish I had the time to re-post all the hilarious memes I’m seeing about this :rollin. The ones involving Brady especially.
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Like this one:
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/02/22/19/10155900-6734963-image-a-65_1550863726816.jpg)
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:lol
It will be like Isray. 6 games he can't associate with the team and a hefty fine.
That seems like the sensible approach. Don't have much faith in the league acting sensibly, though.
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Like this one:
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/02/22/19/10155900-6734963-image-a-65_1550863726816.jpg)
I'd take a table shower with a Happy Ending from ..er..that!
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:lol
It will be like Isray. 6 games he can't associate with the team and a hefty fine.
That seems like the sensible approach. Don't have much faith in the league acting sensibly, though.
Oh, I agree with you. I don't trust the owners. It's like watching a reality show.
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Rumor is, Kraft is NOT the "most recognizable name" caught up in that sting, either.
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Movie star maybe.
Awe hell, TMZ already knows.
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Rumor is, Kraft is NOT the "most recognizable name" caught up in that sting, either.
I saw that the ex- president and COO of Citigroup was caught as well. Wtf is it with these uber rich guys slumming in a 70 buck rub and tug?
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IDK, dinner cost close to that and I'm looking for a tug. :lol
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:lol
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Huh; if I heard this press conference about Kraft correctly, one of the times he was in the spa getting "paid services", it was the morning of the AFC Championship game. Seems unlikely, no? Not impossible, but unlikely.
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Huh; if I heard this press conference about Kraft correctly, one of the times he was in the spa getting "paid services", it was the morning of the AFC Championship game. Seems unlikely, no? Not impossible, but unlikely.
I heard something similar to this, didn't say that morning but in very close timing to the Chiefs game. And he also made it to the Oscars party over the weekend, so he clearly can get around quickly.
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Get around.
No kidding. :lol
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He left the AMP at 11:14. He could have been in KC 4 hours later, but with two hours gained from going back in time. He was likely in his suite by 1400 feeling quite relaxed and ready for a scotch.
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Right. Valve release. A little stress disappears with a tug.
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What was more relief, the pre game tug or that his team won the game? :lol
As funny as it all is for us plebs to laugh at a billionaire getting busted for something so ridiculous, the reality is I dont understand why a rub and tug is illegal. Might help solve some of that human trafficking if people didn't need to be trafficked to do those jobs. Might be a convo for P&R side.
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As funny as it all is for us plebs to laugh at a billionaire getting busted for something so ridiculous, the reality is I dont understand why a rub and tug is illegal. Might help solve some of that human trafficking if people didn't need to be trafficked to do those jobs. Might be a convo for P&R side.
I've long maintained that HMOs should be providing that service (blowjobs, actually), which would save them tons of money in the long run. Stress kills.
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How many less murders would happen it thr other trigger was pulled. Lol
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Am I the only one who thinks the notion of the NFL taking disciplinary action against Kraft -- much less the team -- is beyond silly?
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Why is it silly? The rule book applies to ownership as well. I guess if you think the rules shouldn't apply to them, then maybe thats something worthy of debate, but as of now, it seems like it's perfectly in line with how the NFL does things to give him a suspension or fine which in itself is silly, but at least they have a standard with it from suspending Irsay a few years ago.
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Am I the only one who thinks the notion of the NFL taking disciplinary action against Kraft -- much less the team -- is beyond silly?
The punishment will be against Kraft and not the team.* The league has generally come down on owners for acting a fool and Bob should be no different. The Colts' drunken owner was a recent example. They'll fine him and have him stay away from games for a few weeks. As for whether or not they should, there should definitely be a code of conduct precluding conduct detrimental to the league. This would qualify. At the same time the NFL's conduct for the last 10 years also qualifies, so I'd say probably not.
*That's how it is supposed to work. The reality is that there's no rhyme or reason to anything the league does anymore. They could ban him for six games, they could ignore the whole thing, or they could suspend Brian Hoyer for four games. Who knows anymore.
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The funny thing is the penalty will be Goodell gauging the outrage of the other owners.
I bet they won't complain too much since they all have skeletons in their closets as well.
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I bet they won't complain too much since they all have skeletons in their closets as well.
I'm not certain of that. Do a lot of them have skeletons? Certainly. But I doubt that it's league-wide.
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Kraft has nothing to do with running the team, so any suspension will mean nothing, and fining him x-number of dollars will be liking fining one of us 10 dollars, so this will be a big nothing, other than the embarrassment he may or may not feel.
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I bet they won't complain too much since they all have skeletons in their closets as well.
I'm not certain of that. Do a lot of them have skeletons? Certainly. But I doubt that it's league-wide.
Don't be so naive. I'm not saying every one. Power men think differently than we do.
Kraft has nothing to do with running the team, so any suspension will mean nothing, and fining him x-number of dollars will be liking fining one of us 10 dollars, so this will be a big nothing, other than the embarrassment he may or may not feel.
Yup. Slap on the wrist. Half mil and 6 to 8 games. Which is nothing to them.
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I am looking forward to see the fun team names next year referring to this in Fantasy Ball.
The Rubs and Tugs
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:biggrin:
My phone is loaded with so many memes.
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As hysterical as this whole scenario has been, I still can't come close to wrapping my head around a billionaire getting a handy at a massage parlor. It's just not computing. Is this the billionaire equivolent of slumming or something?
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In a mini mall. :lol
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No wonder they call it a strip mall.
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I understand El Barto's point (and agree with it 100%; stupid is as stupid does) but I think there might be more to it than that. I imagine there's a degree of excitement to the whole arrangement, a degree of danger, but also it depends on what he's into. Without getting too deep into it (and risking a #BLM moment) there may be some element to the arrangement that is part of the "relief" factor. I've never done it, but I can see the allure, for sure.
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He stopped in for a [very] quick blowjob, probably on the way to the airport. He probably just didn't think it was that big a deal, and while he certainly understood the legality of it, he likely wasn't figuring on the tendency towards public shaming that Florida is so keen on. He most likely figured he'd pay a ticket and get on his way, which is exactly what will happen anyway. They just put you on a few websites of "daily degenerates" first.
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Sorry to be lascivious here, but do we know it was head and not a handjob? I was always told that you went in, you laid down on your stomach with a towel around your waist, like a "regular" massage, and if it was one of "those" places, if you rolled over with money tucked into the front of the towel, the massage would no longer respect the boundaries of the towel (if you get my drift).
(For the record, I've never done this not for moral reasons, but because I can't figure out the mechanics of it. I'd be afraid of not having the right amount of $$ and/or getting the "what is THAT for?" rejection. Seriously. Though I'd be bothered by the morals of a woman doing it out of force or coercion.)
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Why is it silly? The rule book applies to ownership as well. I guess if you think the rules shouldn't apply to them, then maybe thats something worthy of debate, but as of now, it seems like it's perfectly in line with how the NFL does things to give him a suspension or fine which in itself is silly, but at least they have a standard with it from suspending Irsay a few years ago.
For starters, I have no idea what "rule book" you're talking about or exactly what any rule might say. The only "rule book" I'm aware of is this one -- https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2018-nfl-rulebook/ -- and I assume that's not what you're talking about.
You "guess thing the rules should apply to them"? Do I think that ownership and labor should be subject to different rules. Yes, I do. Absolutely.
All that being said, and while I'm sure there are rules that are applicable to owners (none of which I've ever read), whether Kraft's action(s) violate some rule and whether it's silly for the NFL to punish an owner for something like this are completely different issues, and my comment was only about the latter.
The punishment will be against Kraft and not the team.* The league has generally come down on owners for acting a fool and Bob should be no different. The Colts' drunken owner was a recent example. They'll fine him and have him stay away from games for a few weeks. As for whether or not they should, there should definitely be a code of conduct precluding conduct detrimental to the league. This would qualify. At the same time the NFL's conduct for the last 10 years also qualifies, so I'd say probably not.
*That's how it is supposed to work. The reality is that there's no rhyme or reason to anything the league does anymore. They could ban him for six games, they could ignore the whole thing, or they could suspend Brian Hoyer for four games. Who knows anymore.
I've heard stuff about the Patriots possibly losing one or more draft picks. Maybe that was just some radio guy speaking out his ass.
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Sorry to be lascivious here, but do we know it was head and not a handjob? I was always told that you went in, you laid down on your stomach with a towel around your waist, like a "regular" massage, and if it was one of "those" places, if you rolled over with money tucked into the front of the towel, the massage would no longer respect the boundaries of the towel (if you get my drift).
(For the record, I've never done this not for moral reasons, but because I can't figure out the mechanics of it. I'd be afraid of not having the right amount of $$ and/or getting the "what is THAT for?" rejection. Seriously. Though I'd be bothered by the morals of a woman doing it out of force or coercion.)
The police report was quite specific, as they tend to be. He rolled up in his Bentley at 1059, got straight down to business where "XXXXX appeared to perform oral sex on the suspect," got cleaned up/dressed, gave her a c-note and at least one other unidentifiable bill, and was back in the Bentley by 1113.
Also, his second visit was the day before. He wasn't a regular there, but presumably somebody who was just in town for the weekend.
And while I have no first hand experience, my understanding is that there's nothing so codified. That's actually why your concerns are valid. You pay the nice girl a large tip up front, and hopefully she's DTF. Some guys have left with nothing but a massage, and plenty of others get the works and then some. Etiquette is that you don't really discus these things going in. I'd imagine that being a regular customer goes a long way in that regard.
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The punishment will be against Kraft and not the team.* The league has generally come down on owners for acting a fool and Bob should be no different. The Colts' drunken owner was a recent example. They'll fine him and have him stay away from games for a few weeks. As for whether or not they should, there should definitely be a code of conduct precluding conduct detrimental to the league. This would qualify. At the same time the NFL's conduct for the last 10 years also qualifies, so I'd say probably not.
*That's how it is supposed to work. The reality is that there's no rhyme or reason to anything the league does anymore. They could ban him for six games, they could ignore the whole thing, or they could suspend Brian Hoyer for four games. Who knows anymore.
I've heard stuff about the Patriots possibly losing one or more draft picks. Maybe that was just some radio guy speaking out his ass.
Owner discipline for things unrelated to the game has never moved to the team level before. That would be unprecedented. But as I keep saying, the NFL makes this up as it goes, and that never reflects well on NE.
Does anybody remember when Dallas got dinged after video of Jerry Jones gallivanting around with strippers and the league's director of officiating came out? Yeah, me neither.
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Sorry to be lascivious here, but do we know it was head and not a handjob? I was always told that you went in, you laid down on your stomach with a towel around your waist, like a "regular" massage, and if it was one of "those" places, if you rolled over with money tucked into the front of the towel, the massage would no longer respect the boundaries of the towel (if you get my drift).
(For the record, I've never done this not for moral reasons, but because I can't figure out the mechanics of it. I'd be afraid of not having the right amount of $$ and/or getting the "what is THAT for?" rejection. Seriously. Though I'd be bothered by the morals of a woman doing it out of force or coercion.)
The police report was quite specific, as they tend to be. He rolled up in his Bentley at 1059, got straight down to business where "XXXXX appeared to perform oral sex on the suspect," got cleaned up/dressed, gave her a c-note and at least one other unidentifiable bill, and was back in the Bentley by 1113.
Also, his second visit was the day before. He wasn't a regular there, but presumably somebody who was just in town for the weekend.
And while I have no first hand experience, my understanding is that there's nothing so codified. That's actually why your concerns are valid. You pay the nice girl a large tip up front, and hopefully she's DTF. Some guys have left with nothing but a massage, and plenty of others get the works and then some. Etiquette is that you don't really discus these things going in. I'd imagine that being a regular customer goes a long way in that regard.
I'm actually not joking one bit, but it would bother me FAR more to drop a c-note for a vanilla massage and feel ripped off than it would to get the works from a place like that. It's just how I'm wired (as long as both parties are consenting).
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Did he wear a condom for the blowie?
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Johnny would have, but did not, mention it in his report.
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If he wasn't wearing I'd say that could mean he was a regular, not that its proof or anything but Im pretty sure prostitutes would make you wear a condom even for a bj.
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If he wasn't wearing I'd say that could mean he was a regular, not that its proof or anything but Im pretty sure prostitutes would make you wear a condom even for a bj.
Some would. Plenty wouldn't. But in this case I'd guess that having a chauffeur drop you off in a Bentley get's you next level treatment.
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If he wasn't wearing I'd say that could mean he was a regular, not that its proof or anything but Im pretty sure prostitutes would make you wear a condom even for a bj.
Some would. Plenty wouldn't. But in this case I'd guess that having a chauffeur drop you off in a Bentley get's you next level treatment.
How do they know that? Every rub and tug place I've seen you can't see through the windows. Granted none of this means anything really just interesting to talk about because now everyone is intrigued by rub and tugs. There's one very close to my house, well I believe it to be one since it's open super late, never looks like anyone is there, and has the windows blocked so you can't see inside.
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If he wasn't wearing I'd say that could mean he was a regular, not that its proof or anything but Im pretty sure prostitutes would make you wear a condom even for a bj.
Some would. Plenty wouldn't. But in this case I'd guess that having a chauffeur drop you off in a Bentley get's you next level treatment.
How do they know that? Every rub and tug place I've seen you can't see through the windows. Granted none of this means anything really just interesting to talk about because now everyone is intrigued by rub and tugs. There's one very close to my house, well I believe it to be one since it's open super late, never looks like anyone is there, and has the windows blocked so you can't see inside.
I guarantee you that they have 8 cameras monitoring the FOH and parking lot. Necessity of doing business.
There were plenty in my work neighborhood, but they all closed down a few years back and became restaurants. We try not to think about it. :lol Now the only ones left that I know of are all in Koreatown. Quite a selling point, actually.
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It really is an after thought, I drive past this one so often but only now am I actually thinking about what is going on there.
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It really is an after thought, I drive past this one so often but only now am I actually thinking about what is going on there.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrouchyUntimelyJapanesebeetle-size_restricted.gif)
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:lol
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We (Texans) need to add O-Line. Watson was sacked 60+ times last year. Some of that was his fault. A bad O-Line will get you 40+ Sacks. Not throwing the ball away when you're supposed to will get you a lot of sacks. A special combination of both gets you 60+.
I long for the days of 2010-2012 when we had the best O-line unit in the league and we propelled Arian Foster to superstardom.
We finally have a QB, and we need to protect him.
A Secondary would also be nice, since Jonathan Joseph is very old, and Kareem Jackson is our only other good corner.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on all points, and it's nice to no longer be the lone Texans fan on the forum. :)
*raises hand* What's up Texans fans?? rab7 is spot on!
Now back to your regularly scheduled Kraft Rub and Tug discussion.
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I'm really curious what role ESPN had in Witten's unretirement. My hunch is that he can still be a useful cog, much like Gronk is now by simply being a very reliable safety net. I'm also guessing that ESPN had more to do with his decision to return than his competitive spirit and desire to compete. Whatever the case, it's pretty good news for the we, the viewers.
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I'm really curious what role ESPN had in Witten's unretirement. My hunch is that he can still be a useful cog, much like Gronk is now by simply being a very reliable safety net. I'm also guessing that ESPN had more to do with his decision to return than his competitive spirit and desire to compete. Whatever the case, it's pretty good news for the we, the viewers.
Is he headed back to Dallas? Or is he a free agent?
As long as Romo doesn't do the same thing (and that comment has absolutely zero percent to do with on-field stuff; he is easily in my top three announcers right now. I've done an almost 180 degree turn on him over the past, say, three to five years.)
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Romo is in a good place right now. Very good at his new job and plays golf all the time. Win/win.
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Maybe Whitten feels he still has a rabbit or two that he can pull out of his head on the field :D
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Word is that the Antonio Brown trade will be locked down by Friday (cannot be made official till next week, I think).
And Cowherd is reporting that the Broncos are one of the frontrunners.
Uh oh.
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I wouldn't sign him from seeing his dyed mustache. No same dude would do that. Lol
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Maybe he was in disguise visiting Robert Kraft's favorite Bordella. :P
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At least I know he can perform under pressure. Lol
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Word is that the Antonio Brown trade will be locked down by Friday (cannot be made official till next week, I think).
And Cowherd is reporting that the Broncos are one of the frontrunners.
Uh oh.
I really hope Denver doesn't sign him, as weird as it feels to say about an elite player like him... I have a hunch that he'll end up in Oakland. It would suck going up against him twice a year, but I don't want a head case like that on my team.
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Word is that the Antonio Brown trade will be locked down by Friday (cannot be made official till next week, I think).
And Cowherd is reporting that the Broncos are one of the frontrunners.
Uh oh.
Just for the sake of watching you post your frustrations about AB for years to come - I pray this is true :biggrin:
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Just for the sake of watching you post your frustrations about AB for years to come - I pray this is true :biggrin:
:facepalm: :lol
I really hope Denver doesn't sign him, as weird as it feels to say about an elite player like him... I have a hunch that he'll end up in Oakland. It would suck going up against him twice a year, but I don't want a head case like that on my team.
I have mixed feelings. I don't want a diva like this on the team, but adding one of the top 2-3 WRs in the league would massively upgrade the offense. And they just traded Keenum to Washington!! Makes me wonder if they are going to trade for Josh Rosen...
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And the Denver QB carousel continues. It's coming soon here. We are truly spoiled.
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I don't really understand why AB wants out of Pittsburgh so badly... it seems like he's always been more worried about his numbers than anything else. Other than GB, I don't see any chance of him landing on a team where he could produce like he did in Pittsburgh. Is it really that he just couldn't handle when Roethlisberger called him out?
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Seems like a toxic situation there. Coach has lost control. Though AB is part of the problem.
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Seems like a toxic situation there. Coach has lost control. Though AB is part of the problem.
Mike Tomlin has tried to be the second coming of Tony Dungy. While I have the greatest respect for TD's coaching style, it simply can't work with all players. Bell and Brown are the perfect examples. Sometimes you have to pick and choose your battles, and that's something that Tomlin has never learned.
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I have mixed feelings. I don't want a diva like this on the team, but adding one of the top 2-3 WRs in the league would massively upgrade the offense. And they just traded Keenum to Washington!! Makes me wonder if they are going to trade for Josh Rosen...
The only problem is that Flacceenum won't have enough time to get the ball to him because the offensive line is so bad.
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Well the Pats are trading to get a crazy man in the fold. Say hello to the newest Patriot, Michael Bennett.
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They're not giving up much to get him. Swap a 5 for a 7 next year. Not a bad deal at all.
I'm more interested in seeing if they go after Rosen or that kid from Duke. The Duke kid seems to have all of the right characteristics, but his arm doesn't look very strong at all to me, and his passes aren't very tight. He's got great touch, but the looks of it, but I'm not sure that'll cut it in the NFL.
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Can you ever figure out what BB will do? They have needs and you think he'll draft or trade for that position and never does. I look forward every year to free agency and the draft to see what he does.
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Can you ever figure out what BB will do? They have needs and you think he'll draft or trade for that position and never does. I look forward every year to free agency and the draft to see what he does.
And it never really seems to make much sense, but works more often than not.
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AB to Chuckyville.
Bye, Bitch...
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This trade was lose-lose.
The Steelers just lost their best player for little compensation, and the Raiders just gave huge money to a WR which will hamper their ability to strengthen their poor team.
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This trade was lose-lose.
The Steelers just lost their best player for little compensation, and the Raiders just gave huge money to a WR which will hamper their ability to strengthen their poor team.
On the plus side, as a Steelers fan, the cap hit only lasts for one season and the two biggest sources of drama are gone from the team. It's true that I expected them to get more in compensation, but if it helps rid the locker room of cancer then it may well be worth it.
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True, it could be addition by subtraction in the long run, but in the short term, he is a huge loss to the team on the field. He has been arguably the best WR in football for the last 5-6 years and you don't lose that guy and not feel the effects. And now we will see how good Smith-Schuster really is. He looked great last year as the number 2 with A. Brown taking all of the coverage, but now he won't be afforded the luxury of single coverage on a regular basis.
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Very true. It will be interesting to see if last year's 3rd round pick has a big improvement this off-season, or if they try to use a pick in the draft on a replacement.
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Seems to me that Oakland has never been a particularly good environment for malcontent receivers.
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Seems to me that Oakland has never been a particularly good environment for malcontent receivers.
It has a chance of becoming a successful match if Carr returns to the form of a few years ago. Otherwise, he'll (AB) will be crying on social media before the season is over, and starting the bullshit that he pulled this past season over again. He had Tomlin that was too easy on him up to this point. Chucky will wear his ass out in no time flat.
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I hate the idea of my Broncos having to go against AB twice a year now :facepalm: I'm not sure if Gruden's plan will ultimately work out, but it's certainly looking a lot better now that they got AB for peanuts and have several first round picks in this year's draft. It seems like the Amari Cooper trade was as good of an example as you'll ever see of a win-win trade in today's NFL.
I didn't want AB in Denver, but if I knew that was all it would take to get him, I would've been fine with it...
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Seems to me that Oakland has never been a particularly good environment for malcontent receivers.
It has a chance of becoming a successful match if Carr returns to the form of a few years ago. Otherwise, he'll (AB) will be crying on social media before the season is over, and starting the bullshit that he pulled this past season over again. He had Tomlin that was too easy on him up to this point. Chucky will wear his ass out in no time flat.
The guy's spent his entire career surrounded by great talent. Despite what he thinks of Rothlisburger he's taking a huge downgrade here. He's always had a good run game behind him. He's always had another great receiver opposite of him, and maybe a great TE. He's going to a team in rebuilding mode that's going to suck for a couple of years. I don't think he'll handle it well. After a 35-6 loss where he goes 1-13-0 is that $30m going to keep him in line?
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Rotating coaching staffs have hurt him as well. He needs stability. Good stability though.
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Rotating coaching staffs have hurt him as well. He needs stability. Good stability though.
Do you mean, Carr? Yeah, it's never good to see a team changing their coaching staff on a near yearly basis. The Raiders, Browns, Bucs and a few other teams seem to be in a constant cycle of doing that. I realize that the Raiders are committed to Gruden for the long-haul considering how much money they paid him, but certain franchises seem to breed trouble from within all the time, and they're one of them.
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Good to see AB leave Pittsburgh. Good luck in Oakland.
Mark it down now, if the Raiders start out the season 1-3 or 1-4 or something like that, fireworks are going to go off.
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The Browns aren't fucking around
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Changing of the gaurd.
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Crazy. Browns are all in for 2019.
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What an exciting start to free agency! I was checking my phone for updates whenever I had down time at work today :lol
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Thought the Jets were the NY team having a shitty day today when Anthony Barr went back on his contract agreement with them, but nobody seems to like this OBJ deal for the Giants.
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Good to see AB leave Pittsburgh. Good luck in Oakland.
Mark it down now, if when the Raiders start out the season 1-3 or 1-4 or something like that, fireworks are going to go off.
FTFY
Meanwhile, loads of changes in store for the Ravens defense next year. The two lost FAs were/are not worth the hefty contracts their new teams signed them for. The team finally has some cap space to work with.
Most understand Suggs move to Arizona, where he lived from 8th grade on through his years at Arizona State. Had lost more than a step last year, but still was that one guy I'd watch on defense. What they lose in the locker room and on the sidelines, though, is immeasurable.
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Bell to the Jets, sounds about right :lol
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Didn't the Steelers offer him 70 Million and he just signed for 50 million for the same amount of years?
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Sucks to trade OBJ, but it's not the worst thing ever. Giants clearly need to rebuild and he was a lot of money and headache. Great player no doubt and I don't want him off the team, but the Giants have needs. Just sucks cause I feel like there's no hope for next season though.
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Didn't the Steelers offer him 70 Million and he just signed for 50 million for the same amount of years?
I honestly can't remember all the details, and don't care to look them up, but I think the difference is the guaranteed money. Bell wanted more guaranteed, and I think the Jets gave him that. But if you take into account the $14 million and change he left sitting on the table last year, I'm not sure if he's ahead of the game here or not.
I'm sure someone can post the details and correct me if I'm wrong.
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Sucks to trade OBJ, but it's not the worst thing ever. Giants clearly need to rebuild and he was a lot of money and headache. Great player no doubt and I don't want him off the team, but the Giants have needs. Just sucks cause I feel like there's no hope for next season though.
It might be a good move for them long-run, but they borked the timing of it. Gettelman really showed his ass here. "We didn't sign him to trade him" was the correct attitude. Signing him and then trading him cost them 16m in dead cap space. Moreover, they still haven't moved on from Eli. What good is he without his best receiver? Ideally they parlay those two picks into their new QB. Dumping Eli would actually save them enough to cover the OBJ dead money. Working in a new QB is a whole lot easier when he's got an elite receiver, though.
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Yea, my only guess is they are going to put the focus on a run game, build the OL, and get a QB to groom. If they can get Haskins, I would be happy. The timing is odd, I agree, I think that's what hurts the most here not so much that we are moving on from a stud WR. I'm not sold on this GM yet and this isn't helping him, but I've got to see how their plan comes out before I really start hating on him and dealing with Eli is a big part of that.
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Didn't the Steelers offer him 70 Million and he just signed for 50 million for the same amount of years?
I honestly can't remember all the details, and don't care to look them up, but I think the difference is the guaranteed money. Bell wanted more guaranteed, and I think the Jets gave him that. But if you take into account the $14 million and change he left sitting on the table last year, I'm not sure if he's ahead of the game here or not.
I'm sure someone can post the details and correct me if I'm wrong.
This is correct. He wanted guaranteed money, and the Steelers weren't willing to go that far. I can't say that I blame them considering his injury history.
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Rumor has it that L Bell was hoping someone would top the Jets offer, but no one did, and we know he was going to the highest bidder, so there you have it.
They both got paid, but in the end, Bell went from the Steelers to the Jets and Brown from the Steelers to the Raiders. Major steps down when looking at the organizations.
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As a Giants fan I’m glad OBJ is gone. He was a cancer to this team, and he’ll be a cancer to the Browns. He is a “me” player and always has been and proved last year he always will be. It’s a shame because the guy has so much talent, but until he can stop being selfish and learn to control his emotions, he’ll never be a winner.
With that said, the Giants are in for a long season, but in the long run I think this will be good for the team as OBJ was definitely not the answer.
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As a Giants fan I’m glad OBJ is gone. He was a cancer to this team, and he’ll be a cancer to the Browns. He is a “me” player and always has been and proved last year he always will be. It’s a shame because the guy has so much talent, but until he can stop being selfish and learn to control his emotions, he’ll never be a winner.
With that said, the Giants are in for a long season, but in the long run I think this will be good for the team as OBJ was definitely not the answer.
I don't get this take. Is he a diva and a "me" guy? Yes, but so are a lot of wide receivers, especially the star ones; it's the nature of the position. The way I see it, the Giants stunk last year, and they have/had much bigger issues that Odell Beckham, Jr. I am not an advocate of paying a WR big money, so I get wanting to trade him and get that contract off the books, but saying he'll never be a winner seems a little odd.
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As a Giants fan I’m glad OBJ is gone. He was a cancer to this team, and he’ll be a cancer to the Browns. He is a “me” player and always has been and proved last year he always will be. It’s a shame because the guy has so much talent, but until he can stop being selfish and learn to control his emotions, he’ll never be a winner.
With that said, the Giants are in for a long season, but in the long run I think this will be good for the team as OBJ was definitely not the answer.
I don't get this take. Is he a diva and a "me" guy? Yes, but so are a lot of wide receivers, especially the star ones; it's the nature of the position. The way I see it, the Giants stunk last year, and they have/had much bigger issues that Odell Beckham, Jr. I am not an advocate of paying a WR big money, so I get wanting to trade him and get that contract off the books, but saying he'll never be a winner seems a little odd.
It’s much more than him just being a diva and a “me” guy. He mysteriously disappears during games (only when thing aren’t going well for him oddly) and the excuse is that he needed hydration, one of these times being a Thursday night game in the middle of October in NJ. He numerous times outwardly complained about his coaches, playcalling, and his teammates (specifically Eli) to the media. After getting unsportsmanlike conduct penalties for distasteful TD celebrations he tells the media he doesn’t care that he cost his team by getting the penalties. The guy fought with the kicking net on the sideline (and lost) when he wasn’t getting the ball, them proposed to it once things were getting better. Let’s not forget the guy also can’t seem to stay on the field. To those not living in the NY area and following this team there is a lot you may not see. This guy was bad for the team and as soon as things don’t go his way his true colors will show again in Cleveland I’m sure. Should be interesting with him and Mayfield on the same team. Sure it could go well, but it also could go very, very bad.
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So free agency was pretty good to the Jets. Jesus Christ. Obviously what teams do in March doesn’t matter, it’s all about what they do from September to December and hopefully beyond, but I’m happy with the moves they made over the past couple of days.
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Is it me showing my age, but have the last couple seasons shown that it's very likely that the Brown, Bell, and Beckham (there's a law firm for you) deals are not going to work out for anyone other than the Steelers and the Giants? Are you telling me the Steelers missed Bell THAT much? Does anyone now think that the Jets are a Super Bowl contender? Hell, do you think they're even going to challenge the Pats for the division?
I'm starting to think that paying these guys insane money is, well, insane.
Also, I heard the lovely Molly Qerim Rose (Uconn!) say that the Giants are interested in OSU's Murray, even though most of the mock drafts I've seen seem to totally ignore that possibility.
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Mock drafts are confusing right now because nobody really knows WTF Arizona wants. At the same time Arizona doesn't know WTF it wants, either. Presumably there's a magic number where they trade Rosen, but damned if I know what it is. Until somebody actually makes them an offer for him there's just no solid ground.
I'm pretty baffled as to what NE is going to do, as well. They're going to have more draft picks than they'll have room (cap or roster) to sign. Seems to me they're going to have to roll some of them up into a bigger pick (or trade). It's all pretty interesting.
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Mock drafts are confusing right now because nobody really knows WTF Arizona wants. At the same time Arizona doesn't know WTF it wants, either. Presumably there's a magic number where they trade Rosen, but damned if I know what it is. Until somebody actually makes them an offer for him there's just no solid ground.
I'm pretty baffled as to what NE is going to do, as well. They're going to have more draft picks than they'll have room (cap or roster) to sign. Seems to me they're going to have to roll some of them up into a bigger pick (or trade). It's all pretty interesting.
Yeah, the Steelers currently have 10 picks. I don't have a clue as to what they're planning on doing, but it seems excessive.
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As a Giants fan I’m glad OBJ is gone. He was a cancer to this team, and he’ll be a cancer to the Browns. He is a “me” player and always has been and proved last year he always will be. It’s a shame because the guy has so much talent, but until he can stop being selfish and learn to control his emotions, he’ll never be a winner.
With that said, the Giants are in for a long season, but in the long run I think this will be good for the team as OBJ was definitely not the answer.
I don't get this take. Is he a diva and a "me" guy? Yes, but so are a lot of wide receivers, especially the star ones; it's the nature of the position. The way I see it, the Giants stunk last year, and they have/had much bigger issues that Odell Beckham, Jr. I am not an advocate of paying a WR big money, so I get wanting to trade him and get that contract off the books, but saying he'll never be a winner seems a little odd.
It’s much more than him just being a diva and a “me” guy. He mysteriously disappears during games (only when thing aren’t going well for him oddly) and the excuse is that he needed hydration, one of these times being a Thursday night game in the middle of October in NJ. He numerous times outwardly complained about his coaches, playcalling, and his teammates (specifically Eli) to the media. After getting unsportsmanlike conduct penalties for distasteful TD celebrations he tells the media he doesn’t care that he cost his team by getting the penalties. The guy fought with the kicking net on the sideline (and lost) when he wasn’t getting the ball, them proposed to it once things were getting better. Let’s not forget the guy also can’t seem to stay on the field. To those not living in the NY area and following this team there is a lot you may not see. This guy was bad for the team and as soon as things don’t go his way his true colors will show again in Cleveland I’m sure. Should be interesting with him and Mayfield on the same team. Sure it could go well, but it also could go very, very bad.
I suspect Cleveland will make a concerted effort to feed him the ball early and often, which will make him happy. When you have a WR who is a diva who pouts when he doesn't get the ball, it is best to get him involved early. See: Randy Moss. He almost never had big games where he did nothing in the first half, because he would shut it down, pout and half ass routes once he realized he wasn't getting the ball that game.
Is it me showing my age, but have the last couple seasons shown that it's very likely that the Brown, Bell, and Beckham (there's a law firm for you) deals are not going to work out for anyone other than the Steelers and the Giants? Are you telling me the Steelers missed Bell THAT much? Does anyone now think that the Jets are a Super Bowl contender? Hell, do you think they're even going to challenge the Pats for the division?
The Steelers will be fine. They will miss Brown, but they will adapt.
As for the Jets, they are in that "I will believe it when I see it" boat.
Mock drafts are confusing right now because nobody really knows WTF Arizona wants. At the same time Arizona doesn't know WTF it wants, either. Presumably there's a magic number where they trade Rosen, but damned if I know what it is. Until somebody actually makes them an offer for him there's just no solid ground.
I'm pretty baffled as to what NE is going to do, as well. They're going to have more draft picks than they'll have room (cap or roster) to sign. Seems to me they're going to have to roll some of them up into a bigger pick (or trade). It's all pretty interesting.
I think, ideally, the Hoodie would love to trade a few picks to get a good pick to draft their QB of the future, but he is probably under orders to not do that, for fear of upsetting Tommy again.
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Mock drafts are confusing right now because nobody really knows WTF Arizona wants. At the same time Arizona doesn't know WTF it wants, either. Presumably there's a magic number where they trade Rosen, but damned if I know what it is. Until somebody actually makes them an offer for him there's just no solid ground.
I'm pretty baffled as to what NE is going to do, as well. They're going to have more draft picks than they'll have room (cap or roster) to sign. Seems to me they're going to have to roll some of them up into a bigger pick (or trade). It's all pretty interesting.
Yeah, the Steelers currently have 10 picks. I don't have a clue as to what they're planning on doing, but it seems excessive.
They're hurt because of the AB dead money (21m). They could certainly trade some for 2020 picks when they'll have more room to maneuver. Ben's contract will be up so they'd probably be able to sign him to something cap friendlier, as well.
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Mock drafts are confusing right now because nobody really knows WTF Arizona wants. At the same time Arizona doesn't know WTF it wants, either. Presumably there's a magic number where they trade Rosen, but damned if I know what it is. Until somebody actually makes them an offer for him there's just no solid ground.
I'm pretty baffled as to what NE is going to do, as well. They're going to have more draft picks than they'll have room (cap or roster) to sign. Seems to me they're going to have to roll some of them up into a bigger pick (or trade). It's all pretty interesting.
Yeah, the Steelers currently have 10 picks. I don't have a clue as to what they're planning on doing, but it seems excessive.
They're hurt because of the AB dead money (21m). They could certainly trade some for 2020 picks when they'll have more room to maneuver. Ben's contract will be up so they'd probably be able to sign him to something cap friendlier, as well.
They were able to carry over the money that was supposed to go to Bell from last season, so the 21m will only come out to be around 6.5m. They're also currently working on an extension for Ben. I wouldn't be surprised to see the details for that come out before the draft.
They need an inside LB, and some help in the secondary. Hopefully they'll be able to make some moves.
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Mock drafts are confusing right now because nobody really knows WTF Arizona wants. At the same time Arizona doesn't know WTF it wants, either. Presumably there's a magic number where they trade Rosen, but damned if I know what it is. Until somebody actually makes them an offer for him there's just no solid ground.
I'm pretty baffled as to what NE is going to do, as well. They're going to have more draft picks than they'll have room (cap or roster) to sign. Seems to me they're going to have to roll some of them up into a bigger pick (or trade). It's all pretty interesting.
I think, ideally, the Hoodie would love to trade a few picks to get a good pick to draft their QB of the future, but he is probably under orders to not do that, for fear of upsetting Tommy again.
I think they might have their sights set on Daniel Brown, which they might be able to get at 32. If not 32 they wouldn't have to move up very far. By Brady's own standard he's only got, at best, 3 seasons left, and he knows it might well be 2. I don't know as he'd object this time around. His concern was getting unceremoniously dumped for Garropolo (and he was right to worry). I don't think he'd have to fear that with Brown.
Personally, I'm not sold on Brown. He's got every quality he needs in spades, except for a good arm. Something tells me that might be important for a quarterback. At the same time NE could work with that. They work with what they have and if it means going from precision to touch then that's what they'd do. Brown can't rifle a ball into a tight window, but he can drop it into one.
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Mock drafts are confusing right now because nobody really knows WTF Arizona wants. At the same time Arizona doesn't know WTF it wants, either. Presumably there's a magic number where they trade Rosen, but damned if I know what it is. Until somebody actually makes them an offer for him there's just no solid ground.
I'm pretty baffled as to what NE is going to do, as well. They're going to have more draft picks than they'll have room (cap or roster) to sign. Seems to me they're going to have to roll some of them up into a bigger pick (or trade). It's all pretty interesting.
Yeah, the Steelers currently have 10 picks. I don't have a clue as to what they're planning on doing, but it seems excessive.
They're hurt because of the AB dead money (21m). They could certainly trade some for 2020 picks when they'll have more room to maneuver. Ben's contract will be up so they'd probably be able to sign him to something cap friendlier, as well.
They were able to carry over the money that was supposed to go to Bell from last season, so the 21m will only come out to be around 6.5m. They're also currently working on an extension for Ben. I wouldn't be surprised to see the details for that come out before the draft.
They need an inside LB, and some help in the secondary. Hopefully they'll be able to make some moves.
However you want to do the math they only have 10.4 over the cap, and they're eating 21 for Brown. Ten-four with 10 picks (and does that include compensatory??) is really precarious. NE is very similar with 12.4 and 12 picks.
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I am very much in the minority on this, but I think NE - assuming that Bill stays coach for the next 5 years, plus minus (which is a big if) - isn't worrying about a QB. There isn't a QB in the league THAT THEY'D TAKE (caps because it's important) that wouldn't join the squad if asked. I've already said that I'm not completely ruling Jimmy G. out of STILL being the Pats future.
I'm not at all suggesting that the Patriot QB is plug and play; it's not. They need a very particular set of skills. Skills ... acquired over a very long career. Skills that make [them] a nightmare for [opposing teams]. Haha. Seriously, though, Patrick Mahomes is never going to be the Pats QB of the future. I suspect that it's even money that the guy is on an NFL roster right now and Belichick knows it. Belichick probably didn't like the threat to his authority, but I don't think that from a football perspective he gave a rat's ass that Kraft might have said "don't bring in a guy to breath down Tommy's neck".
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Another reason why Belichick is the best: he recognizes his own flaws and adjusts.
Case in point: wide receivers. He sucks at drafting them, and has figured it out, and no longer drafts them early. He is fantastic at seeing how guys play in the pros and then figuring out how they will work on his team, but he is terrible at judging them coming out of college.
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I am very much in the minority on this, but I think NE - assuming that Bill stays coach for the next 5 years, plus minus (which is a big if) - isn't worrying about a QB. There isn't a QB in the league THAT THEY'D TAKE (caps because it's important) that wouldn't join the squad if asked. I've already said that I'm not completely ruling Jimmy G. out of STILL being the Pats future.
I'm not at all suggesting that the Patriot QB is plug and play; it's not. They need a very particular set of skills. Skills ... acquired over a very long career. Skills that make [them] a nightmare for [opposing teams]. Haha. Seriously, though, Patrick Mahomes is never going to be the Pats QB of the future. I suspect that it's even money that the guy is on an NFL roster right now and Belichick knows it. Belichick probably didn't like the threat to his authority, but I don't think that from a football perspective he gave a rat's ass that Kraft might have said "don't bring in a guy to breath down Tommy's neck".
Another reason why Belichick is the best: he recognizes his own flaws and adjusts.
Case in point: wide receivers. He sucks at drafting them, and has figured it out, and no longer drafts them early. He is fantastic at seeing how guys play in the pros and then figuring out how they will work on his team, but he is terrible at judging them coming out of college.
I think that's the case with a lot of positions, honestly. He's certainly drafted some winners, but he clearly views free agency as far more useful than the draft. Which relates to Stadler's point. Drafting a QB in the first 10 rounds is just way too perilous. You pay them a fortune and you're judged mercilessly by how they turn out. Brown fits into a kind of a cozy position, though. Rosen would probably work better, but the timing's not right. You can't trade for him and park him on the bench for 3 more years.
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Mock drafts are confusing right now because nobody really knows WTF Arizona wants. At the same time Arizona doesn't know WTF it wants, either. Presumably there's a magic number where they trade Rosen, but damned if I know what it is. Until somebody actually makes them an offer for him there's just no solid ground.
I'm pretty baffled as to what NE is going to do, as well. They're going to have more draft picks than they'll have room (cap or roster) to sign. Seems to me they're going to have to roll some of them up into a bigger pick (or trade). It's all pretty interesting.
Yeah, the Steelers currently have 10 picks. I don't have a clue as to what they're planning on doing, but it seems excessive.
They're hurt because of the AB dead money (21m). They could certainly trade some for 2020 picks when they'll have more room to maneuver. Ben's contract will be up so they'd probably be able to sign him to something cap friendlier, as well.
They were able to carry over the money that was supposed to go to Bell from last season, so the 21m will only come out to be around 6.5m. They're also currently working on an extension for Ben. I wouldn't be surprised to see the details for that come out before the draft.
They need an inside LB, and some help in the secondary. Hopefully they'll be able to make some moves.
However you want to do the math they only have 10.4 over the cap, and they're eating 21 for Brown. Ten-four with 10 picks (and does that include compensatory??) is really precarious. NE is very similar with 12.4 and 12 picks.
I wonder if that's why they decided to play hard ball with Bell's contract in the first place? They knew that they weren't going to be able to afford him either way.
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Tyreek Hill is being investigated for allegedly breaking his 3 year old son's arm... this is the same guy who choked and punched his pregnant girlfriend in the stomach when he was in college. I think we may have seen the last of this clown in the NFL :facepalm:
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So the Giants say they aren't interesting in Haskins and gave Eli his $5 million roster bonus. I'm a bit confused. Keeping Eli this year makes sense to groom a QB, but why no interest in a top one? What is the plan here? I'm still not going to shit on this GM because the draft will probably give some answers, but I'm not sure I understand what the big picture is here and it would be nice to have an idea of what the plan is because it has to be to move on from Eli after this year, I can't see him being part of the discussions further than that. I'm an Eli fan and all, but I really like Haskins and I feel like he fits more so of what the NFL is turning into. Him and Barkley, build an OL, let Eli show him the ropes year 1. THat sounds like a plan. WHat's happening now, I just can't read.
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Tyreek Hill is being investigated for allegedly breaking his 3 year old son's arm... this is the same guy who choked and punched his pregnant girlfriend in the stomach when he was in college. I think we may have seen the last of this clown in the NFL :facepalm:
Or he gets a 2 game suspension. Who the hell knows anymore. Hunt only got 8 games and he was on video kicking a woman he shouldn't have even been around in the first place.
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So the Giants say they aren't interesting in Haskins and gave Eli his $5 million roster bonus. I'm a bit confused. Keeping Eli this year makes sense to groom a QB, but why no interest in a top one? What is the plan here? I'm still not going to shit on this GM because the draft will probably give some answers, but I'm not sure I understand what the big picture is here and it would be nice to have an idea of what the plan is because it has to be to move on from Eli after this year, I can't see him being part of the discussions further than that. I'm an Eli fan and all, but I really like Haskins and I feel like he fits more so of what the NFL is turning into. Him and Barkley, build an OL, let Eli show him the ropes year 1. THat sounds like a plan. WHat's happening now, I just can't read.
I agree with you. IF they pass up on Haskins it will be a mistake. The kid is insanely accurate, and Eli seems to be nearing the end. We won't really know until the draft...
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So the Giants say they aren't interesting in Haskins and gave Eli his $5 million roster bonus. I'm a bit confused. Keeping Eli this year makes sense to groom a QB, but why no interest in a top one? What is the plan here? I'm still not going to shit on this GM because the draft will probably give some answers, but I'm not sure I understand what the big picture is here and it would be nice to have an idea of what the plan is because it has to be to move on from Eli after this year, I can't see him being part of the discussions further than that. I'm an Eli fan and all, but I really like Haskins and I feel like he fits more so of what the NFL is turning into. Him and Barkley, build an OL, let Eli show him the ropes year 1. THat sounds like a plan. WHat's happening now, I just can't read.
I agree with you. IF they pass up on Haskins it will be a mistake. The kid is insanely accurate, and Eli seems to be nearing the end. We won't really know until the draft...
I'm with you both, believe me, but I would only add that the draft is a sort of poker game. I think the actual picks will speak far more knowingly than a token "we aren't interested" statement now. I know you guys know this, but still.
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Yeah, I wouldn't take Dave "We didn't sign OBJ to trade him" at his word :lol
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Not sure the Giants know what they are doing right now. Time will tell, but they've went from being a franchise that always seemed to make good moves to being one that is a mess.
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Let the Fitzmagic begin in Miami! LOL.
It really is hard to be a Dolphins fan....but we made a commitment to this team years ago, when my wife and I decided to be hometown fans as we settled in South Florida....that year they went 1-15 :lol
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Miami has to be in full tank mode to get a top pick in 2020 to grab a QB.
Meanwhile, there is now a story about Big Ben fumbling on purpose years ago to spite Todd Haley. No idea if it is true, but it sounds like it could be.
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Meanwhile, there is now a story about Big Ben fumbling on purpose years ago to spite Todd Haley. No idea if it is true, but it sounds like it could be.
The running back on the play is making the claim, but his backup QB at the time is disputing it, and gives a more reasonable (in my biased opinion) explanation of the situation.
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Meanwhile, there is now a story about Big Ben fumbling on purpose years ago to spite Todd Haley. No idea if it is true, but it sounds like it could be.
The running back on the play is making the claim, but his backup QB at the time is disputing it, and gives a more reasonable (in my biased opinion) explanation of the situation.
And some ex-Steelers are saying that a guy like Ben is just petty enough to have done something like this. We will never know, but given how much has come out about his poor leadership qualities, along with what a drama queen he has always been, it is a story that it is believable.
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And some ex-Steelers are saying that a guy like Ben is just petty enough to have done something like this. We will never know, but given how much has come out about his poor leadership qualities, along with what a drama queen he has always been, it is a story that it is believable.
You always say this, and I never understand it :lol
Locally, when you hear team coverage everyday, it's pretty clear Ben has been the only leader in that locker room for several years. Does that mean he's well liked by everyone? Nope. Does that mean he's perfect? Nope. He's definitely rubbed people the wrong way at times, but like I've mentioned before, that doesn't make him a good leader or a bad leader.
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Meanwhile, there is now a story about Big Ben fumbling on purpose years ago to spite Todd Haley. No idea if it is true, but it sounds like it could be.
The running back on the play is making the claim, but his backup QB at the time is disputing it, and gives a more reasonable (in my biased opinion) explanation of the situation.
And some ex-Steelers are saying that a guy like Ben is just petty enough to have done something like this. We will never know, but given how much has come out about his poor leadership qualities, along with what a drama queen he has always been, it is a story that it is believable.
36,254 likes
maurkicepouncey
I’ve been with Ben going on 10yr I swear on my kids he is a true LEADER!! sucks to see players who leave and are mad at the organization now try and point fingers like they are perfect! But this is the world we live in now !
The above is the reality, but haters have to hate, so . . . . tell me why is it all his lineman would run through a brick wall for him if he's so terrible? Bell and Brown are impudent, me-first guys who only have interest in money and fame, that much has been borne out in the open and is not exactly a secret.
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True leadership involves taking people with different mindsets and getting them all to work together. I don't think you can be a great leader if your most important people hate you and won't work for you. To be fair, I put more of this on shitty coaching than on Ben, but a good leader is able to overcome external problems like that when it comes to the day to day work.
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True leadership involves taking people with different mindsets and getting them all to work together. I don't think you can be a great leader if your most important people hate you and won't work for you. To be fair, I put more of this on shitty coaching than on Ben, but a good leader is able to overcome external problems like that when it comes to the day to day work.
I agree with all that except the bolded. Are you referring to Bell and Brown as "most important people"? We will have to wait and see how the Steelers will fare without AB, but I suspect AB will miss Ben more than the Steelers will miss AB. But, in regards to Bell, Connor replaced his production easily last season with no drama at a fraction of the salary. Bell is good, actually I'm not sure he is currently good, Bell was good - but he's a RB in a passing league where RBs are a dime a dozen. He definitely isn't a "most important" person. Pouncey, for example is more important to Ben and the team, and you can see from the last post how he feels about Ben.
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Passing league or no, when you have an elite QB, elite RB, and elite WR and can work them together effectively you're going to succeed. Any one of them make the other two better. Moderate success in the absence of one doesn't mean much, since we have no idea what his presence would have done to benefit the team. Did Connor command the respect that Bell would have?
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http://www.nfl.com/player/le'veonbell/2540175/careerstats
vs.
http://www.nfl.com/player/jamesconner/2557978/profile
Conner is three years younger, and still on his rookie deal. When you look at his 2018 production vs. Bell's 2017 production, consider each player's cap hit and also consider each player's attitude in general, I'd take Conner every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
The effect of AB's absence remains to be seen. They brought in an interesting free agent (Moncreef), but it's hard to judge him by past seasons because one of those seasons was on Indy while Luck was injured, and another season was spent with Jacksonville where no WR could thrive. Nobody with a grain of sanity expects him to replace AB's numbers, but if he has a solid season with no distractions then nobody in Pittsburgh would consider it a loss.
However, this is all a distraction from the greater overall issue. Mike Tomlin needs to bring a little more sense of discipline to the table, or this will be his final season in the 'Burgh.
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http://www.nfl.com/player/le'veonbell/2540175/careerstats
vs.
http://www.nfl.com/player/jamesconner/2557978/profile
Conner is three years younger, and still on his rookie deal. When you look at his 2018 production vs. Bell's 2017 production, consider each player's cap hit and also consider each player's attitude in general, I'd take Conner every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
The effect of AB's absence remains to be seen. They brought in an interesting free agent (Moncreef), but it's hard to judge him by past seasons because one of those seasons was on Indy while Luck was injured, and another season was spent with Jacksonville where no WR could thrive. Nobody with a grain of sanity expects him to replace AB's numbers, but if he has a solid season with no distractions then nobody in Pittsburgh would consider it a loss.
However, this is all a distraction from the greater overall issue. Mike Tomlin needs to bring a little more sense of discipline to the table, or this will be his final season in the 'Burgh.
Who is a better investment between Connor and Bell isn't the point. Bell was one third of an elite triumvirate, and two of them can't stand their supposed great leader.
Nobody in their right mind would defend Tomlin. At the same time he's going to have to do far more than George Castanza to get fired from that team.
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http://www.nfl.com/player/le'veonbell/2540175/careerstats
vs.
http://www.nfl.com/player/jamesconner/2557978/profile
Conner is three years younger, and still on his rookie deal. When you look at his 2018 production vs. Bell's 2017 production, consider each player's cap hit and also consider each player's attitude in general, I'd take Conner every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
The effect of AB's absence remains to be seen. They brought in an interesting free agent (Moncreef), but it's hard to judge him by past seasons because one of those seasons was on Indy while Luck was injured, and another season was spent with Jacksonville where no WR could thrive. Nobody with a grain of sanity expects him to replace AB's numbers, but if he has a solid season with no distractions then nobody in Pittsburgh would consider it a loss.
However, this is all a distraction from the greater overall issue. Mike Tomlin needs to bring a little more sense of discipline to the table, or this will be his final season in the 'Burgh.
Who is a better investment between Connor and Bell isn't the point. Bell was one third of an elite triumvirate, and two of them can't stand their supposed great leader.
Nobody in their right mind would defend Tomlin. At the same time he's going to have to do far more than George Castanza to get fired from that team.
You asked if Conner commanded the respect that Bell would have in your previous post. I answered that question by showing what each of them did on the field in each of their last active seasons. Commanding respect equals what each of them accomplished on the field. I'm guessing that you may have had a different meaning in mind when you used that phrase. If so, then I honestly missed your meaning.
And I completely disagree with you about Tomlin. Ownership actively booted some of his assistant coaches in the off season, and many people that follow the team (including some sports writers that have followed the team closely for many years) think that it was a message that he's on the hot seat. If this team does anything short of the AFC championship game next year then he's out. The only thing that could save him is if there is a rash of injuries.
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http://www.nfl.com/player/le'veonbell/2540175/careerstats
vs.
http://www.nfl.com/player/jamesconner/2557978/profile
Conner is three years younger, and still on his rookie deal. When you look at his 2018 production vs. Bell's 2017 production, consider each player's cap hit and also consider each player's attitude in general, I'd take Conner every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
The effect of AB's absence remains to be seen. They brought in an interesting free agent (Moncreef), but it's hard to judge him by past seasons because one of those seasons was on Indy while Luck was injured, and another season was spent with Jacksonville where no WR could thrive. Nobody with a grain of sanity expects him to replace AB's numbers, but if he has a solid season with no distractions then nobody in Pittsburgh would consider it a loss.
However, this is all a distraction from the greater overall issue. Mike Tomlin needs to bring a little more sense of discipline to the table, or this will be his final season in the 'Burgh.
Who is a better investment between Connor and Bell isn't the point. Bell was one third of an elite triumvirate, and two of them can't stand their supposed great leader.
Nobody in their right mind would defend Tomlin. At the same time he's going to have to do far more than George Castanza to get fired from that team.
You asked if Conner commanded the respect that Bell would have in your previous post. I answered that question by showing what each of them did on the field in each of their last active seasons. Commanding respect equals what each of them accomplished on the field. I'm guessing that you may have had a different meaning in mind when you used that phrase. If so, then I honestly missed your meaning.
And I completely disagree with you about Tomlin. Ownership actively booted some of his assistant coaches in the off season, and many people that follow the team (including some sports writers that have followed the team closely for many years) think that it was a message that he's on the hot seat. If this team does anything short of the AFC championship game next year then he's out. The only thing that could save him is if there is a rash of injuries.
Commanding respect in this context is all about what you might do. Not how you compare on paper. Connor put up nice numbers, but I don't think he instilled fear the way Bell did, and that matters a lot. Particularly with regards to his value alongside Ben and Brown.
And you might be right about Tomlin. I don't pay much attention to those guys. What I do know is that they've only had 3 coaches in my entire lifetime, including one that that they've waited far too long to fire. Maybe you're right that they're painfully slow and not incompetent. I wouldn't know, but for now I assume the latter.
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Bell and Brown are not the only ex-Steelers coming out and questioning Ben's leadership. Ever notice that this doesn't happen with guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees, quarterbacks who are great leaders? This doesn't mean Ben is not a good QB; he certainly is. He's just not a good leader.
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How about what Harrison said about Brady when he joined the Pats?
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How about what Harrison said about Brady when he joined the Pats?
I didn't catch any of it. I'm assuming he heaped tons of praise on him, though.
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How about what Harrison said about Brady when he joined the Pats?
I didn't catch any of it. I'm assuming he heaped tons of praise on him, though.
Watch the video.
https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/james-harrison-says-tom-brady-is-the-ultimate-teammate-news.69675.html
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Bell and Brown are not the only ex-Steelers coming out and questioning Ben's leadership. Ever notice that this doesn't happen with guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees, quarterbacks who are great leaders? This doesn't mean Ben is not a good QB; he certainly is. He's just not a good leader.
Huh? Who else is questioning Ben's leadership? That one RB that said Ben fumbled on purpose :lol That was hilarious. If there is one thing Ben is, it's a fierce competitor, not in his DNA at all to do that. And the backup QB, who was on the headset for the play broke that down and disproved what that guy said. Should we disregard his logical, common sense, explanation of the play because it doesn't fit your preconceived opinion of Ben? Because that's what it feels like we are doing here.
Bell and Brown are self-serving. Everything is always someone else's fault, not theirs. They have played the race card throughout their departures. The race card. They played for a black head coach in Pittsburgh. They played for the team that created the Rooney rule. They played for Dan Rooney who was Obama's ambassador to Ireland. These guys are nuts, and the fact that some people can't see that is astonishing. Watch Bell's insane SI interview, he complained that he didn't get enough touches. I believe in 2017, he had more touches than any other RB (or close to it), and he actually complained in 2017 about being worked too hard and being given too many touches. Just one example of many, these guys just say stuff.
I get that people that live elsewhere and follow national coverage of the Steelers don't hear as much coverage as we do locally (obviously). When Ben became a Steeler, there was a coach and a locker room of established leaders, who put the team first. They won a Super Bowl together, and along the way Ben became a leader. When they won their second Super Bowl with Ben, most of those great locker room leaders were gone and a new coach with a new approach had entered. Then all those vet leaders retired, and it was pretty much just Ben. For the record, I'm not saying Ben is a great leader, I think he has flaws as a leader. I'm pushing back on him being called a bad leader. As someone who has watched him and this team every single day since he came into the league, I think Ben is a good leader who has made mistakes. And I also think that these guys like Brown and Bell placing blame on him is dumb and misplaced. Brown and Bell are about money and nothing else. Literally nothing else factors into their decision making.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xszp57BeBI
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xszp57BeBI
:-[
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Huh? Who else is questioning Ben's leadership? That one RB that said Ben fumbled on purpose :lol That was hilarious. If there is one thing Ben is, it's a fierce competitor, not in his DNA at all to do that. And the backup QB, who was on the headset for the play broke that down and disproved what that guy said. Should we disregard his logical, common sense, explanation of the play because it doesn't fit your preconceived opinion of Ben? Because that's what it feels like we are doing here.
This is complete horse hockey. I do not have a preconceived notion of Ben. In fact, while I never thought he was a great leader per se, I don't think I ever really came out and said he was a poor one until all of this stuff came out recently. My current option is based on what I have heard and read, not because of some preconceived notion that never existed.
As for who else is questioning Ben's leadership, not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but other ex-Steelers have as well recently, like Hines Ward and Ryan Clark.
Bell and Brown are self-serving. Everything is always someone else's fault, not theirs. They have played the race card throughout their departures. The race card. They played for a black head coach in Pittsburgh. They played for the team that created the Rooney rule. They played for Dan Rooney who was Obama's ambassador to Ireland. These guys are nuts, and the fact that some people can't see that is astonishing. Watch Bell's insane SI interview, he complained that he didn't get enough touches. I believe in 2017, he had more touches than any other RB (or close to it), and he actually complained in 2017 about being worked too hard and being given too many touches. Just one example of many, these guys just say stuff.
I get that people that live elsewhere and follow national coverage of the Steelers don't hear as much coverage as we do locally (obviously). When Ben became a Steeler, there was a coach and a locker room of established leaders, who put the team first. They won a Super Bowl together, and along the way Ben became a leader. When they won their second Super Bowl with Ben, most of those great locker room leaders were gone and a new coach with a new approach had entered. Then all those vet leaders retired, and it was pretty much just Ben. For the record, I'm not saying Ben is a great leader, I think he has flaws as a leader. I'm pushing back on him being called a bad leader. As someone who has watched him and this team every single day since he came into the league, I think Ben is a good leader who has made mistakes. And I also think that these guys like Brown and Bell placing blame on him is dumb and misplaced. Brown and Bell are about money and nothing else. Literally nothing else factors into their decision making.
I know many Steelers view it as a "Ben vs AB and L Bell" situation, but I do not. Just because many are saying Ben is not a good leader does not mean they are taking the side of Brown and/or Bell. I think there is plenty of blame to go around regarding the recent implosion of the Steelers star power, and Ben has his share of the pie in that regard. Antonio Brown is a selfish a-hole who only cares about his stats (over winning), but that doesn't mean that some of the stuff he is saying about Ben might not be true. Same thing with Bell, who just wanted to get paid big money. Just because the motives of the two stars who left Pittsburgh are more than questionable does not mean that everything they are saying is wrong.
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Gronk announced he's retiring.
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Gronk announced he's retiring.
I couldn't find a link.
Nevermind..
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001024012/article/patriots-te-rob-gronkowski-announces-retirement
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Now Brady and Belichick should follow suit in solidarity :biggrin:
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If you had Instagram (Which he announced it) or Twitter or Facebook you would know.
You don't trust me? Come on man.
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Now Brady and Belichick should follow suit in solidarity :biggrin:
Sounds like every prayer from Jets fans every year.
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If you had Instagram (Which he announced it) or Twitter or Facebook you would know.
You don't trust me? Come on man.
Oh no, that's not it at all. Your word is gold, man. I was just wanted to read about it.
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You know I'm F'ing with you right? Twitter, Instagram? Lol
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NFL Is opening up the 2019 season in Chicago because they're doing their whole 100 years thing and want to lead with the Packers and Bears.
Pats got screwed. Doubt anyone cares.
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Even us Pats fans don't care. Lol
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Even us Pats fans don't care. Lol
Yep. Wake me up around week 5 or so.
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Yeah, it's not a big deal. The whole "SB champ getting the first home game of the year" thing is kinda silly anyway.
As for Gronk, I think I agree with those saying he was the greatest TE of all time. He didn't play long enough to accumulate stats like Tony Gonzalez, and he was a bit injury-prone at times, but when he was healthy and playing, he was unstoppable.
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Even us Pats fans don't care. Lol
Yep. Wake me up around week 5 or so.
I'm not even sure how they're getting screwed; if anything, Bill will turn it into a "see how little they respect you fucks?" line and Brady will be (yet again) the greatest player in history to ever play with a chip on his shoulder.
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26367953/pass-interference-now-reviewable-officials (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26367953/pass-interference-now-reviewable-officials)
PHOENIX -- Pass interference, whether flagged or not, can be challenged by coaches and reviewed by officials next season.
NFL team owners voted Tuesday on a one-year trial basis to include those often-controversial penalties in the officiating replay review system. Coaches still will have two challenges per game, and in the final two minutes of a half or fourth quarter or for all of overtime, the replay official can order a review of offensive or defensive pass interference.
The major change -- owners traditionally have been highly reluctant to include any penalties in the replay process -- stems from an egregious missed call in the NFC championship game that likely led to the Rams making the Super Bowl and the Saints falling short.
Flagged or not, that's quite a change.
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About damn time. They have the technology. Time to get it right.
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About damn time. They have the technology. Time to get it right.
I couldn't agree more.
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If I'm with the NFL, what I do is have a couple of interns watch every angle of every play of a couple of games and see just how many penalties there are. I suspect there are 2 penalties per play on average. Maybe even 3 per play. Hold here. Hand to the face there. Half a yard too late. Half a step too early. A whole lot of calls that are overlooked either because they couldn't be seen or they're just discretionary enough to not be worth calling. I don't think anybody in their right mind wants a game called completely by the book, which is why the owners were opposed to instant replay on subjective matters. I think they were right and they're caving here.
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Yup. Every time a rule change is added, it becomes harder for the refs. Add HD reviews and is just a damn mess.
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I have mixed feelings about this, although I am mostly in favor of the change. I think the NFL felt like they had to do something after the Saints were completely robbed of a Super Bowl appearance due to incompetent officiating.
It makes a lot of sense to me, but I'm still surprised that it passed - in a way it seems it could hurt their product by dragging these games out even longer. I'm not particularly worried about that myself, but I know one of the big complaints many have with the NFL is that the games are too long.
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I don't mind adding PI to the list of things you can challenge and overturn. Teams aren't getting more challenges because of this so it kind of doesn't slow the game down any much more except under 2 minutes and maybe that does have a potential to bog down the ending of games. But I think being able to challenge non calls is a very slippery slope.
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I'd be interested to see how often teams use all of their challenges in a game, because if this rule applies to the final 2 minutes of each half, it seems that we're going to be entering a challenge happy era of the NFL. Since teams will be able to challenge non-calls, why would they not use up their challenges every game? I'm all for getting the call right, but I totally agree that the ability to challenge non-calls is a slippery slope for the NFL.
Maybe I'm overanalyzing the potential for this to add time to games, but I could see this adding 10-15+ minutes and more commercials to games. I'm sure the sponsors, bars and restaurants will like this, but the games are already long enough and jam packed with commercials :lol
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Huh? Who else is questioning Ben's leadership? That one RB that said Ben fumbled on purpose :lol That was hilarious. If there is one thing Ben is, it's a fierce competitor, not in his DNA at all to do that. And the backup QB, who was on the headset for the play broke that down and disproved what that guy said. Should we disregard his logical, common sense, explanation of the play because it doesn't fit your preconceived opinion of Ben? Because that's what it feels like we are doing here.
This is complete horse hockey. I do not have a preconceived notion of Ben. In fact, while I never thought he was a great leader per se, I don't think I ever really came out and said he was a poor one until all of this stuff came out recently. My current option is based on what I have heard and read, not because of some preconceived notion that never existed.
Not to dive back into this conversation, because I think we might just agree to disagree here, but I thought I'd at least respond to a couple points here.
For some reason, I thought I remembered you slamming Ben long before AB and Bell drama, so I figured you didn't like the guy, I apologize if that isn't the case.
As for who else is questioning Ben's leadership, not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but other ex-Steelers have as well recently, like Hines Ward and Ryan Clark.
Not being obtuse, I don't remember hearing anything from those guys, honestly though, hearing the local coverage of this stuff new stuff comes up everyday so talking points have had a short shelf life. I will say that you've seen several current Steelers going out of their way to praise Ben and his leadership including Juju and Connor.
Bell and Brown are self-serving. Everything is always someone else's fault, not theirs. They have played the race card throughout their departures. The race card. They played for a black head coach in Pittsburgh. They played for the team that created the Rooney rule. They played for Dan Rooney who was Obama's ambassador to Ireland. These guys are nuts, and the fact that some people can't see that is astonishing. Watch Bell's insane SI interview, he complained that he didn't get enough touches. I believe in 2017, he had more touches than any other RB (or close to it), and he actually complained in 2017 about being worked too hard and being given too many touches. Just one example of many, these guys just say stuff.
I get that people that live elsewhere and follow national coverage of the Steelers don't hear as much coverage as we do locally (obviously). When Ben became a Steeler, there was a coach and a locker room of established leaders, who put the team first. They won a Super Bowl together, and along the way Ben became a leader. When they won their second Super Bowl with Ben, most of those great locker room leaders were gone and a new coach with a new approach had entered. Then all those vet leaders retired, and it was pretty much just Ben. For the record, I'm not saying Ben is a great leader, I think he has flaws as a leader. I'm pushing back on him being called a bad leader. As someone who has watched him and this team every single day since he came into the league, I think Ben is a good leader who has made mistakes. And I also think that these guys like Brown and Bell placing blame on him is dumb and misplaced. Brown and Bell are about money and nothing else. Literally nothing else factors into their decision making.
I know many Steelers view it as a "Ben vs AB and L Bell" situation, but I do not. Just because many are saying Ben is not a good leader does not mean they are taking the side of Brown and/or Bell. I think there is plenty of blame to go around regarding the recent implosion of the Steelers star power, and Ben has his share of the pie in that regard. Antonio Brown is a selfish a-hole who only cares about his stats (over winning), but that doesn't mean that some of the stuff he is saying about Ben might not be true. Same thing with Bell, who just wanted to get paid big money. Just because the motives of the two stars who left Pittsburgh are more than questionable does not mean that everything they are saying is wrong.
I don't really view it super black and white as a "Ben vs AB and Bell" thing either. I think Brown and Bell are just trying to create a narrative, that's all. I also agree that Ben shares blame here, but not the blame that you are referring to. I think Ben could have been the sweetest, nicest, best-est, greatest, etc... leader in the world and Bell and AB would still not be Steelers right now. I think the blame that lays on his shoulders is more about the team underachieving this year and missing the playoffs. This team, even without Bell should have been a playoff team. As a leader of the team, he has a lot of blame for missing the post season. As a Steelers fan, that's what I care about much more than the diva RB and WR's retention.
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26367953/pass-interference-now-reviewable-officials (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26367953/pass-interference-now-reviewable-officials)
PHOENIX -- Pass interference, whether flagged or not, can be challenged by coaches and reviewed by officials next season.
NFL team owners voted Tuesday on a one-year trial basis to include those often-controversial penalties in the officiating replay review system. Coaches still will have two challenges per game, and in the final two minutes of a half or fourth quarter or for all of overtime, the replay official can order a review of offensive or defensive pass interference.
The major change -- owners traditionally have been highly reluctant to include any penalties in the replay process -- stems from an egregious missed call in the NFC championship game that likely led to the Rams making the Super Bowl and the Saints falling short.
Flagged or not, that's quite a change.
It's a step in the right direction, but I'd rather have a dedicated booth official who watches on multiple screens and who who can "throw" a flag just like any of the other officials. IMO, that would be preferable to making one particular type of penalty subject to coaches challenges.
I'd be interested to see how often teams use all of their challenges in a game, because if this rule applies to the final 2 minutes of each half, it seems that we're going to be entering a challenge happy era of the NFL. Since teams will be able to challenge non-calls, why would they not use up their challenges every game? I'm all for getting the call right, but I totally agree that the ability to challenge non-calls is a slippery slope for the NFL.
In the final two minutes of each half, coaches cannot challenge anything, and ALL reviews are initiated from the booth. This new rule simply expands the existing rule to make PI calls or non-calls subject to review.
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Ah ok, that makes a lot more sense - apparently I read over the change too quickly and misinterpreted that important detail :lol
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mikeyd23, yes, I think we can agree to disagree. :)
I do think the Steelers will miss A. Brown a lot on the field, far more than they missed L Bell last year. A. Brown has been arguably the best WR in football the last five years and was highly productive. It remains to be seen how well JuJu will do being the number 1 and being the main focal point of the defense's pass coverage. I do think their signing of Montcrief was a great one. And no one drafts WRs better than the Steelers, so I am sure they will find a gem in this year's draft, and then Washington could always still pan out. They will be fine in the long term, but they are gonna miss Brown a lot at first.
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mikeyd23, yes, I think we can agree to disagree. :)
I do think the Steelers will miss A. Brown a lot on the field, far more than they missed L Bell last year. A. Brown has been arguably the best WR in football the last five years and was highly productive. It remains to be seen how well JuJu will do being the number 1 and being the main focal point of the defense's pass coverage. I do think their signing of Montcrief was a great one. And no one drafts WRs better than the Steelers, so I am sure they will find a gem in this year's draft, and then Washington could always still pan out. They will be fine in the long term, but they are gonna miss Brown a lot at first.
See now I agree with all that :tup
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Brown again took a shot at Juju on Twitter yesterday.
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Brown again took a shot at Juju on Twitter yesterday.
Yup, he's done that twice I think. As a Steeler fan, I was hoping we'd be done with the drama, I guess not. So far the organization is playing it right, not really commenting too much on anything.
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Yup. As they should.
I'm interested in seeing that division next year. It's going to be an all out battle.
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Yup. As they should.
I'm interested in seeing that division next year. It's going to be an all out battle.
It'll be an interesting division for sure, I'm honestly not sure what to expect from it.
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So Greg Schiano drops out of the Patriots DC position after getting hired to spend time with his family, but this comes the same day as Zach Smith says he is releasing a podcast about I guess his time at OSU where he coached with Schiano before he was fired over the summer for alleged domestic abuse that maybe the school knew about and looked the other way. Essentially it makes me wonder if he is about to rub some dirt on Schiano that is going to make him want to get out of the public light, now.
https://saturdaytradition.com/ohio-state-football/ex-ohio-state-assistant-zach-smith-set-to-release-new-podcast-warns-no-one-is-safe/ (https://saturdaytradition.com/ohio-state-football/ex-ohio-state-assistant-zach-smith-set-to-release-new-podcast-warns-no-one-is-safe/)
No one is safe. I don’t care about anybody. Everyone is going to know what really happened.
yikes I wonder what this guy has to say about the Ohio State scandal and who it might impact.
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No surprise there. You knew it was something bad. What an idiot.
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No surprise there. You knew it was something bad. What an idiot.
Yea, when you quit a job you've been striving for since leaving the NFL as a head coach to go back to college for "being with family" it certainly sounds like something bad, but that is still speculation at this point.
Schiano was also a coach at Penn State when Sandusky was there and like many other PSU assistants, they got tagged as "enabling a pedophile" even if they had no real relationship to him, it's kind of like a stain. I wonder if something about knowng about Sandusky could be related too. A lof of those guys said they had no idea, but maybe they did. It's just a very sudden shift for him to not think something bad is about to come out.
Or he could have just also been at Orchids of Asia
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So Greg Schiano drops out of the Patriots DC position after getting hired to spend time with his family, but this comes the same day as Zach Smith says he is releasing a podcast about I guess his time at OSU where he coached with Schiano before he was fired over the summer for alleged domestic abuse that maybe the school knew about and looked the other way. Essentially it makes me wonder if he is about to rub some dirt on Schiano that is going to make him want to get out of the public light, now.
https://saturdaytradition.com/ohio-state-football/ex-ohio-state-assistant-zach-smith-set-to-release-new-podcast-warns-no-one-is-safe/ (https://saturdaytradition.com/ohio-state-football/ex-ohio-state-assistant-zach-smith-set-to-release-new-podcast-warns-no-one-is-safe/)
No one is safe. I don’t care about anybody. Everyone is going to know what really happened.
yikes I wonder what this guy has to say about the Ohio State scandal and who it might impact.
That guy sounds like a grievance collector. If the only thing he's going to do is out some people then that's a good thing. People like him are often the types that shoot up their workplace or crash a plane full of people.
And I was thinking about Schiano this morning. I was concerned about him as the new DC. He's an established guy brought aboard because he has a way of doing things. I'm not sure how that would work with Bill's way of doing things. I prefer the guys that come up internally. Or at least people who know their place. However, it occurred to me that Schiano might have been a big piece of Bill's exit strategy. It seems pretty reasonable that he was supposed to be the defensive heir apparent after a year or two of learning the Patriots way of doing things. Alongside JMD that could have been a very formidable duo.
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Josh McDaniels can't believe that Greg Schiano bailed on a job that soon after agreeing to take it. #jimromeshtick
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Josh McDaniels can't believe that Greg Schiano bailed on a job that soon after agreeing to take it. #jimromeshtick
At least he was there longer than BB was with the Jets... :lol
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Something about Schiano rubs me the wrong way though, even though I can't put my finger on it.
Oh, and it's to spend time on his FAITH and his family. I feel like that might be significant.
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Josh McDaniels can't believe that Greg Schiano bailed on a job that soon after agreeing to take it. #jimromeshtick
At least he was there longer than BB was with the Jets... :lol
Yeah, but neither of them get the style points that Bill did for the napkin thing.
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I resign as the HC to the NYJ.....
Just weird timing to say the least on Schiano. With Bill you knew he resigned to get out of shadow of Bill Parcells. Create his own path.
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I resign as the HC to the NYJ.....
Just weird timing to say the least on Schiano. With Bill you knew he resigned to get out of shadow of Bill Parcells. Create his own path.
I've always wondered how and why that went down the way it did. That's as good of an explanation as any.
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I resign as the HC to the NYJ.....
Just weird timing to say the least on Schiano. With Bill you knew he resigned to get out of shadow of Bill Parcells. Create his own path.
I've always wondered how and why that went down the way it did. That's as good of an explanation as any.
That's certainly some of it. The reality is that it was a no-brainer for any number of reasons. Kraft was going to give him stability and a great amount of control over personnel. The Jets offered neither. Not to mention they were for sale and who knows what happens when the next guy come in. He might have been passing up a great opportunity for a one year stint with a shitty team.
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Jets new look is dropping tomorrow. Rumor is a combo of a lighter green and black.
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By "new look" I thought you were going to say they were going to go with a quality QB, competitive team, and a winning record.
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By "new look" I thought you were going to say they were going to go with a quality QB, competitive team, and a winning record.
Why mess with tradition? :biggrin:
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By "new look" I thought you were going to say they were going to go with a quality QB, competitive team, and a winning record.
He said "new look," not a complete overhaul. :P :lol
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yikes....not a good look for the Packers, total dysfunction on all levels......
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2828649-what-happened-in-green-bay
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yikes....not a good look for the Packers, total dysfunction on all levels......
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2828649-what-happened-in-green-bay
I read that last night, and very little of it surprised me.
After years of saying that McCarthy was a boring and unimaginative play caller, I felt vindicated after reading that. :P
As for Rodgers, I think we have known for a while that he is a sensitive diva. He had better do well and succeed under this new coach, or else the "he doesn't like to be coached" tag will be attached to him forever.
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Man, that was a bigger mess than last year's New England story.
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Man, that was a bigger mess than last year's New England story.
....and still win the whole damn thing. What does that say about the other 31 teams?
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Man, that was a bigger mess than last year's New England story.
....and still win the whole damn thing. What does that say about the other 31 teams?
They suck?
Seriously, I know that I would offer that all dysfunction is not created equally. Fleetwood Mac are notoriously dysfunctional and yet, Rumours is one of the greatest albums ever produced. Ground Zero was notoriously dysfunctional and, well, if I didn't tell you who they were you wouldn't know (we didn't even get to a recording studio, let alone an album).
I think the biggest difference between the two is that the Patriot dysfunction wasn't allowed on the field.
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Ground Zero was notoriously dysfunctional and, well, if I didn't tell you who they were you wouldn't know (we didn't even get to a recording studio, let alone an album).
If you'd only had a better bass player.
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So Russell Wilson has laid it down that he won't sign a long-term deal with the Seahawks after today, and wants a long-term contract with his salary based on a % of the annual salary cap.
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So Russell Wilson has laid it down that he won't sign a long-term deal with the Seahawks after today, and wants a long-term contract with his salary based on a % of the annual salary cap.
The deadline is silly. He's not going to turn down the contract he wants a week from now. As for the demands, it sucks pretty hard, but if it's not Seattle it'll be some other schmuck. There's always some idiot willing to blaze a new path to the bottom. Seattle's going to have to suck it up and pay him. If I owned the team I'd pay him what he's expecting to get, but only with the provision that he legally changes his name to Hey Asshole for as long as he reaming on the team.
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So never mind about that whole % of the salary cap thing. Team will be good but not great for the rest of his duration here, he will leave after this contract is up for however much more money the new CBA will allow, and hopefully the team will have a replacement ready to jump in at that point.
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People like him really make me appreciate Brady all the more. He's also in extension country right now, and he'll sign something favorable for the team. He could ask for the fricking moon and he'd get it, but he won't. Players hit a point years ago where they're getting "set for life" money x3. It was never about that, though. It was about making more than somebody else. I don't think anybody would argue that Brady should be the highest paid quarterback in the league, but he won't demand it, and not because he doesn't need it.
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How insecure are these losers who need to be "the highest paid xx in the league" for like 2 months until someone else signs a bigger deal?
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How insecure are these losers who need to be "the highest paid xx in the league" for like 2 months until someone else signs a bigger deal?
I think some of their insecurities is what drives them to be good, having said that, I think they fail to see the big picture. It's not all about the money, and I mean that in life in general. I admire Brady for being a team player. Also some players like running backs I think have a better point in getting paid since their years of big money are fairly thin. QBs should take less cause their lifespans in the league are longer and they shouldn't hamper their teams salary cap as the leader.
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People like him really make me appreciate Brady all the more. He's also in extension country right now, and he'll sign something favorable for the team. He could ask for the fricking moon and he'd get it, but he won't. Players hit a point years ago where they're getting "set for life" money x3. It was never about that, though. It was about making more than somebody else. I don't think anybody would argue that Brady should be the highest paid quarterback in the league, but he won't demand it, and not because he doesn't need it.
I am sure Daddy Kraft takes cares of him with a little extra off the books, and his wife makes more than he does, so that does make it awfully easy for him to not demand the highest QB contract.
That said, I agree that quarterbacks asking for the moon does hurt the team's ability to built a great team around them. In the case of Russell Wilson, he was woefully underpaid early in his career and he is a great QB, so it's not like he doesn't deserve to get paid big time, but I am surprised he went this route, to be honest.
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Daddy Kraft can only get him handjobs Kev. Come on now.
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It's much easier to be a "team player" when you have the luxuries that Brady does. Wilson's situation is not comparable for several reasons. I don't blame him for approaching this in the way he did because he's a top 5 player at the most important position in the NFL at the young age of 30. Seattle did what they had to do to give themselves the best possible chance at being a legitimate contender for the next 4 seasons. I think it was a win-win for both parties (not to mention the fans, who must be relieved). If anyone deserves that kind of money, it's Wilson.
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Brady did that before meeting a supermodel. He took less. That does not work here.
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That's really not what I was getting at... I was implying that it's easier to make a team friendly deal when you're playing for the best coach in NFL history. I'm not trying to take anything away from Brady's greatness, but at this point it's really difficult to argue against him having the best situation for any QB in the entire NFL. He is consistently surrounded by an elite coaching staff and a great supporting cast (offensively and defensively). It's hard to say the same for Wilson, considering how much that team has changed since that SB loss to the Patriots. The one constant is Wilson keeping that team competitive, regardless of his supporting cast. Again, he's also only 30 years old and one of the most gifted players in the NFL.
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The line of thinking that Brady takes less because his wife makes a lot of money is fucking stupid. He has ALWAYS taken team friendly deals. He was always more about football and winning that making every last dollar.
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That's really not what I was getting at... I was implying that it's easier to make a team friendly deal when you're playing for the best coach in NFL history. I'm not trying to take anything away from Brady's greatness, but at this point it's really difficult to argue against him having the best situation for any QB in the entire NFL. He is consistently surrounded by an elite coaching staff and a great supporting cast (offensively and defensively). It's hard to say the same for Wilson, considering how much that team has changed since that SB loss to the Patriots. The one constant is Wilson keeping that team competitive, regardless of his supporting cast. Again, he's also only 30 years old and one of the most gifted players in the NFL.
He has Belichick. And Scarnechia, the Offensive Line coach. Other than that coaching staff has been, and is currently hardly elite.
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I think it's fair to say that McDaniels is one of the best OC's in the league and Brady has had him for most of his career. The Patriots have also had very good DC's the last few years with Patricia and Flores. These are 3 guys who all had teams champing at the bit to hire them as head coaches over the last few years...
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Saying that it's easier for Brady kind of misses the point. In the case of Russel Wilson we're talking about the difference between a team friendly 100 million and a Me friendly 140 million. Does anybody think Wilson would have taken 110? 120? And this is on top of the 72 million he'd already made. It's about the status and the team be damned.
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I think it's fair to say that McDaniels is one of the best OC's in the league and Brady has had him for most of his career. The Patriots have also had very good DC's the last few years with Patricia and Flores. These are 3 guys who all had teams champing at the bit to hire them as head coaches over the last few years...
Are the coordinators good? Sure. But as you say, McDaniels has had Brady. But all of these coordinators can do their job because they fall under the Belichick framework. How'd McDanields do as the Rams' OC?
What McDaniels has is a great relationship with probably the best QB ever, working under the best coach ever. He also has a HOF OL coach. The jury is still out on McDaniels on what he can accomplish on his own. I'm not saying he doesn't do a great job for the Patriots, but why wold anyone think that would translate across the league?
And there's been many years, last year among them, where they don't even have an official DC.
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I think it's fair to say that McDaniels is one of the best OC's in the league and Brady has had him for most of his career. The Patriots have also had very good DC's the last few years with Patricia and Flores. These are 3 guys who all had teams champing at the bit to hire them as head coaches over the last few years...
Are the coordinators good? Sure. But as you say, McDaniels has had Brady. But all of these coordinators can do their job because they fall under the Belichick framework. How'd McDanields do as the Rams' OC?
What McDaniels has is a great relationship with probably the best QB ever, working under the best coach ever. He also has a HOF OL coach. The jury is still out on McDaniels on what he can accomplish on his own. I'm not saying he doesn't do a great job for the Patriots, but why wold anyone think that would translate across the league?
And there's been many years, last year among them, where they don't even have an official DC.
Well, I'm of the opinion that "being a great coordinator" doesn't mean "being a great head coach". There are a 100 exceptions, of course, but it's not a given.
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(https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_editorial_landscape_12_desktop/f_auto/patriots/n6gucxrfzwuf1pnrpbuh.jpg)
It was one of the more reckless thing's I've seen in my life.
:lol
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I think it's fair to say that McDaniels is one of the best OC's in the league and Brady has had him for most of his career. The Patriots have also had very good DC's the last few years with Patricia and Flores. These are 3 guys who all had teams champing at the bit to hire them as head coaches over the last few years...
Are the coordinators good? Sure. But as you say, McDaniels has had Brady. But all of these coordinators can do their job because they fall under the Belichick framework. How'd McDanields do as the Rams' OC?
What McDaniels has is a great relationship with probably the best QB ever, working under the best coach ever. He also has a HOF OL coach. The jury is still out on McDaniels on what he can accomplish on his own. I'm not saying he doesn't do a great job for the Patriots, but why wold anyone think that would translate across the league?
And there's been many years, last year among them, where they don't even have an official DC.
Well, I'm of the opinion that "being a great coordinator" doesn't mean "being a great head coach". There are a 100 exceptions, of course, but it's not a given.
Oh, I agree with that distinction, but all I'm saying is that McDaniels is in THE PERFECT spot for all of the reasons I listed. Should he be named the OC for..whoever, I have no idea how he'll do.
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What McDaniels has is a great relationship with probably the best QB ever,
When did McDaniels work with Peyton Manning??
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That debate is over good sir. Lol
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You Boston fells are so easily triggered. :biggrin:
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What McDaniels has is a great relationship with probably the best QB ever,
When did McDaniels work with Peyton Manning??
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/pBKZNm43qiYKY/giphy.gif)
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You Boston fells are so easily triggered. :biggrin:
Love you too. Lol
Btw, proof now that Gronk was the deflator.
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I suspect Gronk will have an epic Hall of Fame speech in five years.
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I think it's fair to say that McDaniels is one of the best OC's in the league and Brady has had him for most of his career. The Patriots have also had very good DC's the last few years with Patricia and Flores. These are 3 guys who all had teams champing at the bit to hire them as head coaches over the last few years...
Are the coordinators good? Sure. But as you say, McDaniels has had Brady. But all of these coordinators can do their job because they fall under the Belichick framework. How'd McDanields do as the Rams' OC?
What McDaniels has is a great relationship with probably the best QB ever, working under the best coach ever. He also has a HOF OL coach. The jury is still out on McDaniels on what he can accomplish on his own. I'm not saying he doesn't do a great job for the Patriots, but why wold anyone think that would translate across the league?
And there's been many years, last year among them, where they don't even have an official DC.
How did the Patriots do without him when he left for the Denver job though? Do you think it's just a coincidence that they went one and done in the playoffs twice in a row, then made it all the way back to the Super Bowl once they brought him back as OC? Sure he has one of the greatest QBs of all time and the greatest coach of all time, but I think he deserves a lot more credit for what he's done with that team.
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That 2009 team is generally considered the most toxic locker room in the Belichick Era.
Look, I'm not say he deserves NO credit. I'm not even saying that he's not good. He obviously does a great job here.
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I think it's fair to say that McDaniels is one of the best OC's in the league and Brady has had him for most of his career. The Patriots have also had very good DC's the last few years with Patricia and Flores. These are 3 guys who all had teams champing at the bit to hire them as head coaches over the last few years...
Are the coordinators good? Sure. But as you say, McDaniels has had Brady. But all of these coordinators can do their job because they fall under the Belichick framework. How'd McDanields do as the Rams' OC?
What McDaniels has is a great relationship with probably the best QB ever, working under the best coach ever. He also has a HOF OL coach. The jury is still out on McDaniels on what he can accomplish on his own. I'm not saying he doesn't do a great job for the Patriots, but why wold anyone think that would translate across the league?
And there's been many years, last year among them, where they don't even have an official DC.
How did the Patriots do without him when he left for the Denver job though? Do you think it's just a coincidence that they went one and done in the playoffs twice in a row, then made it all the way back to the Super Bowl once they brought him back as OC? Sure he has one of the greatest QBs of all time and the greatest coach of all time, but I think he deserves a lot more credit for what he's done with that team.
With all due respect to JMD, I think it has more to do with the system and the organization's way of doing things. You look back over the last 15 years and you see a lot of assistants do a bang up job at the task they're assigned, often to be courted by other teams where they move on to and suck. Dante Scarnecchia might be the most valuable asst in the league. How many running backs have had success under Ivan Fears and went on to suck elsewhere? Or taken the reverse route, like Corey Dillon? I think TAC is right about working within the framework.
Where I differ is that I suspect JMD is going to be a very good HC. What he's learned from Bill is immeasurable, and he's already experienced the pressure of being The Man.
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I think getting that first experience as a HC will definitely benefit him.
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Anytime there is big changes like the Pats had in the late 2000's your play will struggle a little bit. But imagine still never being under 10 wins?
That's because of the QB and the Head Coach.
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Tickets secured for the Browns at the Jets, and the Browns hosting the Rams in the following game. (Damn, I passionately hate using the secondary market but it's tricky when you live in the UK and have a holiday to book around it.)
Loved the road game against the Saints last year so figured we'd do something similar this year. We drove from Cleveland to New Orleans which was good fun. So much fun, actually, that we decided in future years we'd allow the schedule to dictate to us. Slightly disappointing the most compatible weekend for us is the Jets but hey, we'll find some fun on the road trip to Cleveland, whether we head off towards Washington and back up, or whether we loop north.
Indians are at home, too, so we'll take in a game. Did that last year for the first time, thought it was a cracking experience.
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Anytime there is big changes like the Pats had in the late 2000's your play will struggle a little bit. But imagine still never being under 10 wins?
That's because of the QB and the Head Coach.
2002 down? :P
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Anytime there is big changes like the Pats had in the late 2000's your play will struggle a little bit. But imagine still never being under 10 wins?
That's because of the QB and the Head Coach.
2002 down? :P
That’s also the only season with Brady as the starter where the Pats missed the playoffs.
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Anytime there is big changes like the Pats had in the late 2000's your play will struggle a little bit. But imagine still never being under 10 wins?
That's because of the QB and the Head Coach.
2002 down? :P
2002 up. Are you going to play semantics on this player and coach run of never being .500?
You know I know the #'s sucka!😂😂
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Are we about the get the Robert Kraft sex tape? :lol what has this world come to, please keep this out of public eye for all our sake
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6940367/Robert-Kraft-sex-tape-leaks-online-footage-shopped-multiple-outlets.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6940367/Robert-Kraft-sex-tape-leaks-online-footage-shopped-multiple-outlets.html)
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Are we about the get the Robert Kraft sex tape? :lol what has this world come to, please keep this out of public eye for all our sake
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6940367/Robert-Kraft-sex-tape-leaks-online-footage-shopped-multiple-outlets.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6940367/Robert-Kraft-sex-tape-leaks-online-footage-shopped-multiple-outlets.html)
Unfortunately, many reserve their outrage for video evidence.
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It's amazing the vitriol from the people and the county. I'm not saying Kraft didn't do it. Of course he got a tug and more. They went for the home run linking sex trafficking. They they botched the warrant and there was no sex ring. Some would say money allows Kraft to fight but I say his popularity is what is making the people overstretch their bounds.
How many videos have you seen of a misdemeanor? Most of the time they drop the charges and go after the spa's only to shut them down. This can happen to the common man and we should be worried. Give him a damn fine privately, make him do community service quietly and call it a damn day.
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How did they botch the warrant? I personally think the issuance of sneak and peak warrants to go after trivial offenders is bullshit, but such is life in the police state. They are legal and I havne't heard of any issues with it other than it was an overreach, though.
As for the outcome, I believe the fine and community service has been on the table. Moreover, that's what it's going to come down to anyway. My hunch is that Kraft is just trying to maintain some plausible deniability. based on the the people who will judge him he likely thinks it's better to be convicted while maintaining his innocence than to plead guilty. Because it's Florida the video was going to be public no matter what he did.
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Kraft's legal team states it was illegally secured.
https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3308145002?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2Fnfl%2F2019%2F03%2F29%2Frobert-kraft-sex-spa-case-video-patriot-act%2F3308145002%2F
The judge took the video home to look and rule if it's admissible. If not then they'll go with the word of the workers at the spa.
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Kraft's legal team states it was illegally secured.
https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3308145002?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2Fnfl%2F2019%2F03%2F29%2Frobert-kraft-sex-spa-case-video-patriot-act%2F3308145002%2F
The judge took the video home to look and rule if it's admissible. If not then they'll go with the word of the workers at the spa.
Yeah, that ain't gonna fly. There's nothing that says sneak and peaks can only be used for certain offenses. More importantly, while the cop probably did embellish his application for the warrant, "oops, my bad" is generally all it takes to get around Mapp nowadays. This has good faith exception written all over it.
Some day a person will challenge these warrants all the way to the SCOTUS. The Man has claimed the authority to sneak into your house and place cameras everywhere because he thinks you might be selling quarter bags of grass. There's really no argument to be made where that passes strict scrutiny. Bob certainly has the money to do it, but I don't think he'd be a particularly good test case. Nor do I think this court would be particularly friendly to the fourth and fourteenth amendments here.
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Oh I agree. They will even leak it which shouldn't happen. I'll assume with Florida law it will be released April 29th after the court date and found admissible.
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Kraft's legal team states it was illegally secured.
https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3308145002?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2Fnfl%2F2019%2F03%2F29%2Frobert-kraft-sex-spa-case-video-patriot-act%2F3308145002%2F
The judge took the video home to look and rule if it's admissible. If not then they'll go with the word of the workers at the spa.
"The Patriot Act was supposed to be about stopping terrorism, not rub and tugs.”"
That made me laugh. Democracy, manifest!
Though, this line rubbed me the wrong way (pun absolutely, fully intended): "The affidavit also stated “a presumptive test of the napkins recovered for the presence of seminal fluid” after a search of the spa’s garbage." What kind of operation are they running there? :)
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Are we about the get the Robert Kraft sex tape? :lol what has this world come to, please keep this out of public eye for all our sake
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6940367/Robert-Kraft-sex-tape-leaks-online-footage-shopped-multiple-outlets.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6940367/Robert-Kraft-sex-tape-leaks-online-footage-shopped-multiple-outlets.html)
Someone called sports radio last week and said that if they had a 14" dick, then hell yes release it! :lol
There's a reason he doesn't want it released! :lol :lol
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So does anybody have an predictions for the draft? Will AZ really draft Murray or is it a smokescreen? Which QB does NY take? Will Gruden squander his bounty or will he make it work?
My hunch is that NE moves up to draft somebody. They have a lot more picks than they do roster and cap space. The alternative is that they trade some of them for picks next year, but given their propensity for gaining compensatory picks that's probably just perpetuating a cycle. That said, they're probably not going to be in a position to grab Hockenson, and I don't know as any of the QBs or WRs will be worth the move up.
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If NE trades up, it would be to draft a defensive player, I think. Belichick knows he sucks at drafting WR's, and the hissy fit Brady would throw if they took a QB early is probably not a headache Bill wants to deal with at this point.
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Who cares what Brady thinks but in the end do they go for a few more years or the future?
Honestly, who has ever predicted correctly how BB picks? :lol
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I honestly cannot think of anything les interesting than the draft.
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Thin Lizzy albums are probably slightly less interesting.
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I honestly cannot think of anything les interesting than the draft.
For you Pat fans with late 1st round draft pics, it makes sense to not be interested. I was more interested in the draft last year then ever before because the Giants had a top pick for the first time since they drafted Eli (which is the time I started becoming a fan of the NFL). This year the Giants have a couple picks but with so much endless possibilities it's not worth my time or interest to figure them all out. Also watching the draft may be the most boring thing on TV that night.
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I was certainly familiar with Mr. Irrelevant, but I'd never heard of the Lowsman Trophy before. :lol
(https://thelombardithree.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/lowsman.jpg)
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Is that for the last man selected? I'd love that trophy. :)
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Yeah, the last man selected is dubbed Mr. Irrelevant, and there's actually a lot of hoopla about it. Aside from the trophy there's a banquet dinner in his honor and a trip to Disney World.
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A trip to Disney? :lol
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See, I love that stuff. That's pretty cool, especially if the person has a sense of humor about it.
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I honestly cannot think of anything les interesting than the draft.
I am not a huge sports fan these days, but even back when I was, I would agree with this sentiment.
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I used to watch it faithfully every year. Now I just look up the results online after work to get a quick synopsis.
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I used to watch it faithfully every year. Now I just look up the results online after work to get a quick synopsis.
Yea, I forgot last night to even check, but now that I look..... :facepalm: oh Gettleman, you really don't want to be the Giants GM do you? How can a GM today, not know player value >:( >:( >:(
from espn:
Biggest question: Does Jones have franchise quarterback talent? One scout thought Jones was a "backup" with "pedestrian talent." Jones went to Duke as a non-scholarship player and isn't exactly blessed with a cannon arm or a dynamic skill set. ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay didn't see it with Jones, either. He had him ranked as his 59th-best player in the draft. The Giants took him significantly higher. -- Jordan Raanan
Like, if you wanted this guy badly, fine, we need a QB, but the value was no where near #6. There were much better players available at positions of need as well.
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It seems we may have seen the last of Tyreek Hill in a Chiefs jersey :lol
He should be permanently banned from the NFL.
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I used to watch it faithfully every year. Now I just look up the results online after work to get a quick synopsis.
Yea, I forgot last night to even check, but now that I look..... :facepalm: oh Gettleman, you really don't want to be the Giants GM do you? How can a GM today, not know player value >:( >:( >:(
from espn:
Biggest question: Does Jones have franchise quarterback talent? One scout thought Jones was a "backup" with "pedestrian talent." Jones went to Duke as a non-scholarship player and isn't exactly blessed with a cannon arm or a dynamic skill set. ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay didn't see it with Jones, either. He had him ranked as his 59th-best player in the draft. The Giants took him significantly higher. -- Jordan Raanan
Like, if you wanted this guy badly, fine, we need a QB, but the value was no where near #6. There were much better players available at positions of need as well.
The Giants are the new Browns.
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I used to watch it faithfully every year. Now I just look up the results online after work to get a quick synopsis.
Yea, I forgot last night to even check, but now that I look..... :facepalm: oh Gettleman, you really don't want to be the Giants GM do you? How can a GM today, not know player value >:( >:( >:(
from espn:
Biggest question: Does Jones have franchise quarterback talent? One scout thought Jones was a "backup" with "pedestrian talent." Jones went to Duke as a non-scholarship player and isn't exactly blessed with a cannon arm or a dynamic skill set. ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay didn't see it with Jones, either. He had him ranked as his 59th-best player in the draft. The Giants took him significantly higher. -- Jordan Raanan
Like, if you wanted this guy badly, fine, we need a QB, but the value was no where near #6. There were much better players available at positions of need as well.
Jones was certainly polarizing. For every scout that thought he was second rate, there's another that thinks he's going to be great. He struck me as a huge question mark, but I definitely think the upside was great enough to take a flyer on him (#6 I don't know about, though). By all accounts he's super tough, competitive, and has a phenomenal quarterback mind. Plus there's his size. If a team can work on his mechanics to improve his arm the potential is through the roof.
The Patriots seem to have drafted another Edelman. The kid is by all accounts a great receiver, but he lacks explosiveness and playmaking ability. I gather this was one of those "value" picks. At least they didn't trade down. And I liked the reaction from the Patriots fans in their little box. Their excitement completely froze when the name was announced as they all paused to ask "who the fuck is that?" :lol
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:lol
Even though those who paid attention know he was at Foxborough earlier in the month. What is surprising is for the second year in a row the Pats drafted for needs which they never do.
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heard an interesting scenario about the draft this morning...
what if New England didn't get their card in at the end of the 1st round, the next pick isn't scheduled until Friday. are they penalized? could they just put in their pick immediately at the beginning of round 2? seems teams would take that extra day to work the phones if there isn't some kind of penalty.
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Jones was certainly polarizing. For every scout that thought he was second rate, there's another that thinks he's going to be great. He struck me as a huge question mark, but I definitely think the upside was great enough to take a flyer on him (#6 I don't know about, though). By all accounts he's super tough, competitive, and has a phenomenal quarterback mind. Plus there's his size. If a team can work on his mechanics to improve his arm the potential is through the roof.
He definitely has potential and could be good. He was also coached by Eli/Peyton's QB coach. He's got a lot of the checks for a NFL QB, no doubt. But his draft stock was much lower. I think they reached, and reached very far taking him #6. And that seems to be my issue with Gettleman is not making the most of what he has in a league where every inch matters, every dollar matters in the cap, and every decision is important, you can't risk losing value you already have. I already felt they lost value in the Beckham trade and I definitely feel like they did in their top pick too.
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:lol
Even though those who paid attention know he was at Foxborough earlier in the month. What is surprising is for the second year in a row the Pats drafted for needs which they never do.
I don't see this or Sony Michel as a "need" pick. Quite the opposite, in fact. RB was pretty low on the list of priorities last year, simply because they could pick up any of a dozen players and plug him in. While they do need receivers this year, a possession receiver isn't really the priority. Both of these strike me very much as value picks. They were the best players available to them and they'll make use of them.
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I think with Belichick, you can't confuse the POSITION with the PLAYER. I think for Belichick, the POSITION of running back is crucial, but he doesn't value any PLAYER in that position that highly, because he knows there are other ways to get what he wants. I personally think that Belichick makes fun of the organizations that drop tens of millions of dollars on guys like Le'vean Bell like we make fun of musicians that lip synch.
I don't know what to think about that Giants pick. Those are the qualities they value as an organization - tough, good positional mind - even if they haven't really shown that lately. I don't know. Proof will be in the pudding, I guess.
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:lol
Even though those who paid attention know he was at Foxborough earlier in the month. What is surprising is for the second year in a row the Pats drafted for needs which they never do.
I don't see this or Sony Michel as a "need" pick. Quite the opposite, in fact. RB was pretty low on the list of priorities last year, simply because they could pick up any of a dozen players and plug him in. While they do need receivers this year, a possession receiver isn't really the priority. Both of these strike me very much as value picks. They were the best players available to them and they'll make use of them.
Both drafts a running back and a receiver were priorities. They styles have nothing to do with it though.
The talk last year was they needed a running back when they didn't resign Dion Lewis, the year before Blount left and they signed Gillislee and he didn't pan out. Now who knew in the first round! That was very un Belichick like. Jut like the receiver this year.
These positions were needs, nobody expected they would come in the first round though. He usually puts stock in other positions for the 1st round.
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:lol
Even though those who paid attention know he was at Foxborough earlier in the month. What is surprising is for the second year in a row the Pats drafted for needs which they never do.
I don't see this or Sony Michel as a "need" pick. Quite the opposite, in fact. RB was pretty low on the list of priorities last year, simply because they could pick up any of a dozen players and plug him in. While they do need receivers this year, a possession receiver isn't really the priority. Both of these strike me very much as value picks. They were the best players available to them and they'll make use of them.
Both drafts a running back and a receiver were priorities. They styles have nothing to do with it though.
The talk last year was they needed a running back when they didn't resign Dion Lewis, the year before Blount left and they signed Gillislee and he didn't pan out. Now who knew in the first round! That was very un Belichick like. Jut like the receiver this year.
These positions were needs, nobody expected they would come in the first round though. He usually puts stock in other positions for the 1st round.
Yeah, I disagree. The position they play will factor into it at some point, three equally valuable players you take the one you need the most, but overall it's about taking the best player for NE. If the best player on the board had been an OL, they'd have taken him last night.
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Yeah, of course NE considered it. :lol
Q: Have you ever looked into what the scenario is if the clock were to run out on you with the 32nd pick?
NC: It’s a great question. We talked about that before the draft, like what were to happen. However many years ago that was, the clock ran out and then it went to the next team. You don’t have the ability to do that anymore, so if it runs out, eventually you have to pick. You’ve got to figure out something to do. If the clock runs out, nobody’s going to trade so you have to make the pick. It’s a great question. If you do it, you could wait until tomorrow morning. Like, could we wait until seven o’clock tomorrow to make the pick? The league probably wouldn’t like that, but at some point we’d probably have to do something.
Q: Could Arizona jump you?
NC: No, that’s what I mean. They can’t – that whole rule, when that happened – I think it was Baltimore and Minnesota – whatever it was, and they jumped in front of them, like, that’s been eliminated. Eventually you’ve got to make a decision.
Q: Doesn’t a part of you just want to watch the world burn though?
NC: No [laughs]. Nobody would be too happy about that.
SI actually says the rule is still in place, so I'm not sure how it would work. It's conceivable that the draft restarts this morning with AZ officially at 32 and NE pending at 33. Part of me is kind of sorry they didn't try it.
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:lol
Even though those who paid attention know he was at Foxborough earlier in the month. What is surprising is for the second year in a row the Pats drafted for needs which they never do.
I don't see this or Sony Michel as a "need" pick. Quite the opposite, in fact. RB was pretty low on the list of priorities last year, simply because they could pick up any of a dozen players and plug him in. While they do need receivers this year, a possession receiver isn't really the priority. Both of these strike me very much as value picks. They were the best players available to them and they'll make use of them.
Both drafts a running back and a receiver were priorities. They styles have nothing to do with it though.
The talk last year was they needed a running back when they didn't resign Dion Lewis, the year before Blount left and they signed Gillislee and he didn't pan out. Now who knew in the first round! That was very un Belichick like. Jut like the receiver this year.
These positions were needs, nobody expected they would come in the first round though. He usually puts stock in other positions for the 1st round.
Yeah, I disagree. The position they play will factor into it at some point, three equally valuable players you take the one you need the most, but overall it's about taking the best player for NE. If the best player on the board had been an OL, they'd have taken him last night.
I always know they'll go for the best player no matter the position but the last 2 years, it's been different. Both #'1 are not the best player on the board at the time so you can look at it filling needs. You know how he looks at other team for example who pay stupid money to receivers. The highest they ever paid was to Moss, 9 million. Hell #11 makes mid 4's.
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Yeah, of course NE considered it. :lol
Q: Have you ever looked into what the scenario is if the clock were to run out on you with the 32nd pick?
NC: It’s a great question. We talked about that before the draft, like what were to happen. However many years ago that was, the clock ran out and then it went to the next team. You don’t have the ability to do that anymore, so if it runs out, eventually you have to pick. You’ve got to figure out something to do. If the clock runs out, nobody’s going to trade so you have to make the pick. It’s a great question. If you do it, you could wait until tomorrow morning. Like, could we wait until seven o’clock tomorrow to make the pick? The league probably wouldn’t like that, but at some point we’d probably have to do something.
Q: Could Arizona jump you?
NC: No, that’s what I mean. They can’t – that whole rule, when that happened – I think it was Baltimore and Minnesota – whatever it was, and they jumped in front of them, like, that’s been eliminated. Eventually you’ve got to make a decision.
Q: Doesn’t a part of you just want to watch the world burn though?
NC: No [laughs]. Nobody would be too happy about that.
SI actually says the rule is still in place, so I'm not sure how it would work. It's conceivable that the draft restarts this morning with AZ officially at 32 and NE pending at 33. Part of me is kind of sorry they didn't try it.
It is amazing the scenarios that go through that man's mind.
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I think the draft is a lot more exciting when your team has a lot of room for improvement like mine (Denver). I'm really excited about Denver getting QB Drew Lock in the second round. I've been reading about the connection between Denver and Lock for months now. It's still kind of hard to believe he fell this far in the draft when guys like Jones and Haskins were taken in the top 15.
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Anyone remember Kellen Winslow Jr?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ex-nfl-star-winslow-ii-faces-potential-life-in-prison/ar-AABiZRH?ocid=spartandhp
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I'll say it again. The 24 other dudes are the luckiest johns on the face of the earth to have a billionaire as a co-defendant.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/in-legal-victory-for-robert-kraft-judge-suppresses-video-in-prostitution-case/ar-AABjfGT?ocid=spartandhp
I wonder if any of them copped out. :lol
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Anyone remember Kellen Winslow Jr?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ex-nfl-star-winslow-ii-faces-potential-life-in-prison/ar-AABiZRH?ocid=spartandhp
wow and he's going after all these old ladies too wtf is wrong with this dude
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I'll say it again. The 24 other dudes are the luckiest johns on the face of the earth to have a billionaire as a co-defendant.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/in-legal-victory-for-robert-kraft-judge-suppresses-video-in-prostitution-case/ar-AABjfGT?ocid=spartandhp
I wonder if any of them copped out. :lol
Not many sports fans out of N.E think this way but have a rich man involved helped showed the liberties the police were taking. We all know he got a tug plus but lets just make sure they are charging correctly and not taking liberties in how they get their information.
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Anyone remember Kellen Winslow Jr?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ex-nfl-star-winslow-ii-faces-potential-life-in-prison/ar-AABiZRH?ocid=spartandhp
wow and he's going after all these old ladies too wtf is wrong with this dude
Okay: he plays the "CTE" card. Assuming the jury buys it, what happens if (or when) he dies and is found to be clear of it?
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Anyone remember Kellen Winslow Jr?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ex-nfl-star-winslow-ii-faces-potential-life-in-prison/ar-AABiZRH?ocid=spartandhp
wow and he's going after all these old ladies too wtf is wrong with this dude
Okay: he plays the "CTE" card. Assuming the jury buys it, what happens if (or when) he dies and is found to be clear of it?
then that might explain why he continuously did these acts? I don't know, but do you mean what does this mean for the NFL?
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Anyone remember Kellen Winslow Jr?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ex-nfl-star-winslow-ii-faces-potential-life-in-prison/ar-AABiZRH?ocid=spartandhp
wow and he's going after all these old ladies too wtf is wrong with this dude
Okay: he plays the "CTE" card. Assuming the jury buys it, what happens if (or when) he dies and is found to be clear of it?
then that might explain why he continuously did these acts? I don't know, but do you mean what does this mean for the NFL?
Well, I wasn't thinking about the NFL, but that's a good point. I was thinking more about the immediate justice aspect. To make that defense, he has to admit the crime, but concede he was not "himself" (not a legal term, my word), he gets to avoid severe legal penalty, but it's all circumstantial. Circumstantial evidence is legitimate evidence, but we're talking about a specific case where BY DEFINITION, the point at which the circumstantial evidence becomes hard, direct evidence is the point at which justice/punishment/ is no longer an option (or even possible).
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I'll say it again. The 24 other dudes are the luckiest johns on the face of the earth to have a billionaire as a co-defendant.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/in-legal-victory-for-robert-kraft-judge-suppresses-video-in-prostitution-case/ar-AABjfGT?ocid=spartandhp
I wonder if any of them copped out. :lol
Not many sports fans out of N.E think this way but have a rich man involved helped showed the liberties the police were taking. We all know he got a tug plus but lets just make sure they are charging correctly and not taking liberties in how they get their information.
When they admitted they captured surveillance video of nude men and women getting legitimate massages it created a real problem for them. I was honestly betting against Kraft, even though in principle his argument was correct. Glad it worked out this way.
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So the video evidence will be thrown out, but they were allowed to "monitor" weren't they? Can't the officers just testify to what they "monitored"?
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So the video evidence will be thrown out, but they were allowed to "monitor" weren't they? Can't the officers just testify to what they "monitored"?
No, because they were monitoring via the unlawfully obtained video feed. They could probably say that they "monitored" him entering the establishment and leaving 20 minutes later, but that doesn't help them.
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I thought the problem was that they recorded the video. I mean, what did the judge agree to when he allowed cameras to be installed in the first place?
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The were allowed to monitor not videotape. It affected those innocent people who legitimately went in for a massage.
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I got that, but can't they testify to what they monitored without having to present the video.
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It affected those innocent people who legitimately went in for a massage.
I wonder who these people are :lol
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:lol
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I thought the problem was that they recorded the video. I mean, what did the judge agree to when he allowed cameras to be installed in the first place?
A mistake.
Whether they recorded or merely watched it in real time is irrelevant. The warrant was invalid, and as such nothing that came of it will be admissible. The common legal metaphor is that if the tree is poisoned then so is the fruit. Since the warrant was tainted, so is any information they gleaned from direct result of it. This means that for the sake of the trial the video evidence doesn't exist and they can't even make mention of it.
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It affected those innocent people who legitimately went in for a massage.
I wonder who these people are :lol
Bad johns. It's kind of a funny recurring theme when people are talking about Asian Massage Parlours. Anything the girl does is strictly voluntary and you're merely tipping her, unfortunately in advance. New guys will come in, leave some money on the counter, expect her to do whatever they want. The girl might have any number of reasons to not do anything other than the massage, and the punter isn't in a position to raise hell about it. If she thinks you're a cop you're definitely not going to get any play.
Or, maybe there are just people that enjoy massages from hot, naked Asian chicks. :lol
And I've never stepped foot in an AMP for many reasons. I've simply read plenty of stories.
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And I've never stepped foot in an AMP for many reasons. I've simply read plenty of stories.
Those stories in the back of the girly mags actually do get read by some people?
;D
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Even worse then, the folks who pay for the it and don't get it :lol
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Even worse then, the folks who pay for the it and don't get it :lol
We've talked about this before, I think. I'm not really joking (maybe a little) but that's the main reason I've never set foot in an AMP. I'd be far more bothered by the idea that I got taken than I would for getting a handy from a cute, naked Asian girl (who may or may not have done that several times already that day). I'm a "whatever goes on between two consenting adults" kind of guy.
(And not to get political, but all the fervor over legalized weed? Why aren't we doing the same thing for prostituion? ALL the same arguments apply, more or less.)
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Oh I'm totally in favor of legalizing prostitution. "If fucking is legal and selling is legal why isn't selling fucking legal" :lol
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https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/14/case-against-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-weakened-after-video-barred.html
Florida really only had one other means of effectively prosecuting him and it just flew out the window:
A woman accused of sexually servicing New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft indicated she would fight any effort to get her to testify against him, dealing another crippling blow to prosecutors’ case after a judge barred them from using as evidence videos allegedly showing Kraft receiving sex acts for pay.
The question now is if the video gets released, which is very likely why Bob went this route in the first place. My understanding is that since it was ruled unlawfully obtained that he could sue the police department right on into oblivion if they allowed it to reach the public. It's probably in their best interest to set fire to the thing.
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I’ve gotta learn to stop being optimistic. Every time the Jets start making a string of decisions that look like they could improve the team, I start to get my hopes up and then they go and do something stupid.
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I’ve gotta learn to stop being optimistic. Every time the Jets start making a string of decisions that look like they could improve the team, I start to get my hopes up and then they go and do something stupid.
Why did they fire the GM? Seems like an odd time to do it unless they felt he fucked up the draft. (as I look at the other GM in NY....)
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Gruden prepping to take a kicker in 1st round? Well, if the Raiders can't reach the endzone, they'll definitely need a good kicker. :lol
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"If fucking is legal and selling is legal why isn't selling fucking legal" :lol
One of my favorite lines from George Carlin. The older and angrier he got, the better!
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Yeah... the Jet's are redefining dysfunctional..... :lol
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If Goodell's head has been out of his ass for some air today he called for a drug test on Zeke Elliot ASAP. That boy was hopped up on something. People on pure air don't behave like that. I'd bet a fiver he tests positive for X.
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If Goodell's head has been out of his ass for some air today he called for a drug test on Zeke Elliot ASAP. That boy was hopped up on something. People on pure air don't behave like that. I'd bet a fiver he tests positive for X.
What happened?
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If Goodell's head has been out of his ass for some air today he called for a drug test on Zeke Elliot ASAP. That boy was hopped up on something. People on pure air don't behave like that. I'd bet a fiver he tests positive for X.
What happened?
He was stumbling around a rave at 0300 looking for trouble and kinda-sorta forced a member of the staff over a barricade. John Law saw it and cuffed him up, but the guy he assaulted didn't want to press charges.
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The Eagles extending the contract of Carson Wentz was not surprising, but considering he was unable to stay healthy the last two seasons, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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How long until we have the "Robert Griffin / Carson Wentz" radio show on ESPNRadio?
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https://deadspin.com/patriots-accuse-texans-of-tampering-due-to-their-courts-1835464476
I would give anything if it were to turn out that Casario convinced Texans Dude that he was hot to join him in Houston so they'd fire their existing GM, only to turn around and drop a dime on him for talking out of turn. :lol
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RIP Pat Bowlen. Damn Hall of Fame screws up again. This man was long deserving of enshrinement and now won't experience it.
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https://deadspin.com/patriots-accuse-texans-of-tampering-due-to-their-courts-1835464476
I would give anything if it were to turn out that Casario convinced Texans Dude that he was hot to join him in Houston so they'd fire their existing GM, only to turn around and drop a dime on him for talking out of turn. :lol
Since when is O'Brien a lawyer? "No, but yes, but relative only to matter not directly or indirectly related specifically to the Houston Texans or anything relatively related therein."
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https://deadspin.com/patriots-accuse-texans-of-tampering-due-to-their-courts-1835464476
I would give anything if it were to turn out that Casario convinced Texans Dude that he was hot to join him in Houston so they'd fire their existing GM, only to turn around and drop a dime on him for talking out of turn. :lol
Since when is O'Brien a lawyer? "No, but yes, but relative only to matter not directly or indirectly related specifically to the Houston Texans or anything relatively related therein."
I noticed that. I thought his actual answer was spot-on. He's no dummy.
I gave a cop an answer similar to that once, but with several more qualifiers, and the dude lost his freaking mind. I thought he was going to drop dead of an aneurysm right there on the side of the road. Most agitated cop I've ever seen.
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The talk is he does want out.
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The talk is he does want out.
I've seen talks both ways. He's in a real good spot right now. If a better one comes along then bully for him. Houston is not a better gig, though. Not by far. He'll be in the same position of being subordinate to a head coach. He'll be starting from a personnel group he had no control over selecting. And there's a very good possibility that that head coach is out on his ass in another year or two. I suppose if he just hates Bill (or Kraft) then I can see this as an improvement, but that seems unlikely. Moreover, Bill gives him a great deal of leeway. Not sure that'll be the case with O'Brien and the Jr. McNair.
In any case, the CW is that this is just NE trying to get a draft pick or two for him, which I'm pretty cool with. A GM oughtta be worth a good one.
And did you lose a bet or something?
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I did. Same with my Twitter Avatar.
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RIP Pat Bowlen. Damn Hall of Fame screws up again. This man was long deserving of enshrinement and now won't experience it.
Agreed.
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I don't know if this has ever happened before, but in week one Tom Brady will play against the son of a guy he played against 18 years ago. (Devin Bush Jr and Sr.)
Just an interesting factoid.
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I thought this was interesting.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/this-statistic-disproves-that-tom-brady-is-only-a-check-down-passer/ar-AAEjYGK
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Looks like Melvin Gordon and Zeke Elliot are the next running backs to overestimate their worth. I can't blame them for wanting to get paid, but we're at the point where overpaying a RB is pure madness. You overpay a great QB, or a stud pass rusher, or a great left tackle, or a stud linebacker, but you do not overpay a RB no matter how good they are. Not in today's NFL.
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Looks like Melvin Gordon and Zeke Elliot are the next running backs to overestimate their worth. I can't blame them for wanting to get paid, but we're at the point where overpaying a RB is pure madness. You overpay a great QB, or a stud pass rusher, or a great left tackle, or a stud linebacker, but you do not overpay a RB no matter how good they are. Not in today's NFL.
I'm not sure Elliot is an overestimation. He's the team's MVP by a longshot. Since they're fixing to overpay Dak Prescott there's no telling how this will work out, though.
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I'm not sure Elliot is an overestimation. He's the team's MVP by a longshot. Since they're fixing to overpay Dak Prescott there's no telling how this will work out, though.
While I agree that Elliot is more valuable than most RB's, he already has a lot of miles and touches over the years and plays a very physical style, so he is a RB that will likely fall off of the cliff earlier than most, not to mention that he seemingly does something stupid every off-season. Not sure I'd want to overpay a RB who is one inappropriate grab away from a long suspension.
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I'm not sure Elliot is an overestimation. He's the team's MVP by a longshot. Since they're fixing to overpay Dak Prescott there's no telling how this will work out, though.
While I agree that Elliot is more valuable than most RB's, he already has a lot of miles and touches over the years and plays a very physical style, so he is a RB that will likely fall off of the cliff earlier than most, not to mention that he seemingly does something stupid every off-season. Not sure I'd want to overpay a RB who is one inappropriate grab away from a long suspension.
You're right about the suspension part, and I'd certainly be using that in the negotiations. He really is a knucklehead. I wouldn't worry about age and number of touches right now, though. He's got 5 years left. After that is when I'd be afraid of signing the guy. Of course his agent already knows that, hence his posturing right now. I'm just thinking about it in terms of what he does to the rest of the team. They're going to give Dak a gazillion dollars, and we've already seen how good Dak is without a solid run game to play behind. To that end Z is the more important player.
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You're right about the suspension part, and I'd certainly be using that in the negotiations. He really is a knucklehead. I wouldn't worry about age and number of touches right now, though. He's got 5 years left. After that is when I'd be afraid of signing the guy. Of course his agent already knows that, hence his posturing right now. I'm just thinking about it in terms of what he does to the rest of the team. They're going to give Dak a gazillion dollars, and we've already seen how good Dak is without a solid run game to play behind. To that end Z is the more important player.
I mostly agree, but I just can't wrap my head around paying a RB as much he likely wants. It is true that Dak cannot carry a team - we saw that in 2017 when he shit the bed during Zeke's 6-game suspension - but he is good enough to win with when everything around him is working. Once they overpay Dak, they are in trouble.
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They should've learned their lesson when they overpaid Romo but like everything else in Dallas, history tends to repeat itself with the exception of championships over the last 22 years.
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You're right about the suspension part, and I'd certainly be using that in the negotiations. He really is a knucklehead. I wouldn't worry about age and number of touches right now, though. He's got 5 years left. After that is when I'd be afraid of signing the guy. Of course his agent already knows that, hence his posturing right now. I'm just thinking about it in terms of what he does to the rest of the team. They're going to give Dak a gazillion dollars, and we've already seen how good Dak is without a solid run game to play behind. To that end Z is the more important player.
I mostly agree, but I just can't wrap my head around paying a RB as much he likely wants. It is true that Dak cannot carry a team - we saw that in 2017 when he shit the bed during Zeke's 6-game suspension - but he is good enough to win with when everything around him is working. Once they overpay Dak, they are in trouble.
I reckon they can sign him for 2 dollars over Gurley's deal, I guarantee that's the only thing that knucklehead cares about, and they'd be wise to jump on it. It's a fraction of what elite quarterbacks make and he's worth it to them. Moreover, by this time next year some idiot GM will have given some other RB a much bigger deal, and the price to keep him will be that much higher. The truth is that Dallas needs the guy and now's the time to buy. Plus, Jerry's got some pretty decent skills when it comes to stringing deals out. He doesn't know how to sign the right guys, but he knows how to sign the right contracts. In this case I think Z is the right guy.
edit: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/todd-gurley-16734/ (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/todd-gurley-16734/)
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They should've learned their lesson when they overpaid Romo but like everything else in Dallas, history tends to repeat itself with the exception of championships over the last 22 years.
In all fairness though, Romo was a very good QB for most of his career - he was a legit MVP candidate a couple times and was usually in that 2nd or 3rd tier of best QB's in the league (5th to 12th best), while I doubt anyone except maybe a few Dallas homers would consider Dak any better than an average starter right now.
I reckon they can sign him for 2 dollars over Gurley's deal, I guarantee that's the only thing that knucklehead cares about, and they'd be wise to jump on it. It's a fraction of what elite quarterbacks make and he's worth it to them. Moreover, by this time next year some idiot GM will have given some other RB a much bigger deal, and the price to keep him will be that much higher. The truth is that Dallas needs the guy and now's the time to buy. Plus, Jerry's got some pretty decent skills when it comes to stringing deals out. He doesn't know how to sign the right guys, but he knows how to sign the right contracts. In this case I think Z is the right guy.
You might be right.
The Chargers are crazy though if they cave and give Melvin Gordon a big deal. Gordon is a good RB, and an above pass catching back, which is important in today's NFL, but he has missed games due to injury in three of his four seasons.
The irony of both of these situations is that the Chargers and Cowboys have rosters that make both legit Super Bowl contenders this year, and both have their starting RB threatening to hold out.
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The real question is what to do about Dak. He's wanting Rothlesburger/Rodgers money and he's simply not worth it. Yet I don't see how Jerry can just cut him loose. Where do you go to sign somebody better? It's the same problem Seattle was in. There's nobody comparable you can sign and the longer the wait the more other teams will drive the price up. I think it's a no brainer you pay Z, but D is a real mystery.
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I said this about Romo and I'll say it about Rivers and Prescott: They will never win a Super Bowl in their current configuration (meaning, not counting if either one signs on to back up the GOAT in New England, but absent that...)
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They should've learned their lesson when they overpaid Romo but like everything else in Dallas, history tends to repeat itself with the exception of championships over the last 22 years.
In all fairness though, Romo was a very good QB for most of his career - he was a legit MVP candidate a couple times and was usually in that 2nd or 3rd tier of best QB's in the league (5th to 12th best), while I doubt anyone except maybe a few Dallas homers would consider Dak any better than an average starter right now.
Oh, I totally agree. I didn't mean to diminish Romo's talent. I just think all the money they threw at him didn't help the team. Although Dak is not as good as Romo was, he has the potential to be under the right coach. Romo had Parcells in his early years. Dak has Garrett. There's a drop off. I'm thinking Dallas needs to re-evaluate leadership roles in that organization. Throwing money at players has obviously not worked in the past.
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The real question is what to do about Dak. He's wanting Rothlesburger/Rodgers money and he's simply not worth it. Yet I don't see how Jerry can just cut him loose. Where do you go to sign somebody better? It's the same problem Seattle was in. There's nobody comparable you can sign and the longer the wait the more other teams will drive the price up. I think it's a no brainer you pay Z, but D is a real mystery.
Jerry loves to pay "his guys," so I am sure Dak will get paid here at some point.
Oh, I totally agree. I didn't mean to diminish Romo's talent. I just think all the money they threw at him didn't help the team. Although Dak is not as good as Romo was, he has the potential to be under the right coach. Romo had Parcells in his early years. Dak has Garrett. There's a drop off. I'm thinking Dallas needs to re-evaluate leadership roles in that organization. Throwing money at players has obviously not worked in the past.
I don't think Garrett is a terrible coach, but he is not a great one either. They have done well at drafting the last few years and could be a real contender on that alone, but coaching will likely hold them back at some point. Give Belichick their roster and they'd probably win the whole thing.
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Give Belichick their roster and they'd probably win the whole thing.
I bet that hurt..
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Not at all. Playful Spygate jabs aside, I have never denied what an awesome coach he is.
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Tyreek Hill will not be suspended by the NFL.
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Tyreek Hill will not be suspended by the NFL.
Yeah, that makes sense. :lol
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Tyreek Hill will not be suspended by the NFL.
Yeah, that makes sense. :lol
They owe Ray Rice an apology. Jesus Christ that’s pathetic.
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Tyreek Hill will not be suspended by the NFL.
Yeah, that makes sense. :lol
They owe Ray Rice an apology. Jesus Christ that’s pathetic.
No joke. The one that got screwed the worst was Ezekiel Elliot. The league's own investigator said there was no basis for suspending him and he got six fucking games. They really do seem to make this up as they go along, and based more often than not on whether or not it's time to stick it to an owner.
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They owe Ray Rice an apology.
Let's get serious. Ray Rice was caught on video knocking his significant other out with a punch. No one deserves that POS an apology.
I agree that the NFL's process is totally arbitrary when it comes to these suspensions, but to say Ray Rice is owed an apology seems out of bounds, if you ask me.
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How about Tom Brady Kev? :neverusethis:
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That one was totally arbitrary as well, and I think Goodell stuck to him a little bit because of the criticism he got over destroying the Spygate tapes.
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I think the other 31 owners had their puppet do their dirty work. I revel seeing someone like Jerry Jones eat shit when he pounds his chest.
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They owe Ray Rice an apology.
Let's get serious. Ray Rice was caught on video knocking his significant other out with a punch. No one deserves that POS an apology.
I agree that the NFL's process is totally arbitrary when it comes to these suspensions, but to say Ray Rice is owed an apology seems out of bounds, if you ask me.
It was more a comment on how fucked up the Hill ruling was. Ray Rice is a piece of shit no doubt but Hill is just as bad.
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They owe Ray Rice an apology.
Let's get serious. Ray Rice was caught on video knocking his significant other out with a punch. No one deserves that POS an apology.
I agree that the NFL's process is totally arbitrary when it comes to these suspensions, but to say Ray Rice is owed an apology seems out of bounds, if you ask me.
I think the problem is that Ray Rice was punished for no other reason than to mollify the public, and we've yet to see anybody else punished like that. Kareem Hunt will play half this season after something that I consider far worse. Hill plays the whole season and I think it's obviously "more probable than not" that he did something far worse than either of them. We all agree that Goodell acts arbitrarily and capriciously in his capacity as judge, juror, and hangman, but I think you have to go back and look at some of the worst examples, and RR was one of them. I thought Rice got a raw deal, and it seems even more so with the way Roger dictates punishment based on everything but the incident itself.
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I hear what you guys are saying, and I am in no way defending the NFL or Tyreek Hill. Hill seems like a bad guy by most accounts, and the NFL might as well starting using a dartboard when it comes to handing out punishment.
But hey, the season starts in less than 7 weeks! :metal :metal
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The owners don't want to give up the power but there should be an arbiter for discipline.
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Tyreek Hill will not be suspended by the NFL.
Yeah, that makes sense. :lol
They owe Ray Rice an apology. Jesus Christ that’s pathetic.
No joke. The one that got screwed the worst was Ezekiel Elliot. The league's own investigator said there was no basis for suspending him and he got six fucking games. They really do seem to make this up as they go along, and based more often than not on whether or not it's time to stick it to an owner.
No shit. If Zeke was playing for any other team at the time, it would've been a totally different story or perhaps no story at all.
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No shit. If Zeke was playing for any other team at the time, it would've been a totally different story or perhaps no story at all.
Not sure I buy that. It is hard to imagine Goodell intentionally coming down hard on the Cowboys given that Jerry Jones has as much power as any owner. I just think their decision-making when it comes to these things is very arbitrary.
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They went after Kraft, and he's pretty powerful. In fact, my hunch is that Zeek was retaliation for the deflategate nonsense. Deflategate was very specifically the other owners sticking it to Kraft. Zeek was probably the same thing. Goodell works for the owners. The owners infight. Sometimes they want to stick it to each other and Goodell is the instrument by which it happens. There's been some pretty good writing about the two factions among the owners.
edit: But then supporting Kev's Magic 8-Ball theory of league discipline there's this: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27239255/nfl-suspends-seahawks-dt-reed-6-games :lol
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I personally think they will go easy on the players because the new CBA is coming up in a year. Another chip they will throw out hoping to slight of hand the players.
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Magic 8-Ball theory...I love that. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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I personally think they will go easy on the players because the new CBA is coming up in a year. Another chip they will throw out hoping to slight of hand the players.
I don't think they're going to budge on discipline. The players have enough stuff to sort out so the league probably won't have to deal with too much pressure.
The smart move would be to outsource it. Hire some law firm (not fucking Wells', somebody competent) or an auditing company to run a sort of parallel justice system. I don't think the owner would go for it, they seem to have developed a penchant for screwing each other via discipline, but it would offer a lot of advantages. For one thing Goodell wouldn't continue to be the face of idiocy. For another if a case gets bungled it's no longer Goodel's idiocy to blame. Lastly, the players could have some semblance of fairness.
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No, they'll go easy until the ink is dry. Makes them look sympathetic to the players.
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Btw, 100% onboard with outsourcing.
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Something to consider as well is that three of the Chiefs first eight games are nationally-televised night games, and Goodell knows that a guy like Tyreek Hill is a must-see player, so you want that guy playing in those games to help with the ratings. It wouldn't surprise me if that was a factor.
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Yet it wasnt with Tom Brady. That's why with the contract coming up it seems plausible that their greesing the skids.
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But Tom Brady is a cheater!
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:lol
Imagine .02 air pressure in a football is more important than verbal and physical abuse?
But here we are.
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Yet it wasnt with Tom Brady. That's why with the contract coming up it seems plausible that their greesing the skids.
A lot of the owners, including Jerry, were very vocal about the fact that they didn't want Brady suspended for exactly the reason Kev suggests. The dude's ratings gold. Sticking it to Kraft was just more important, apparently. In reality it probably didn't hurt all that much as people still tuned in to see how a Bradyless NE would fare, most likely hoping to see them crash and burn. KC won't have that advantage. Besides, I think the Chiefs are kind of the NFL darlings right now. Everybody wants to see them score 100 points a game (and give up 99) and the league knows the value of that.
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A few owners spoke out but lets be honest here. There are 32 owners and majority wins. They act as petulant at those in reality TV shows. Hell, there should be a reality show on owners. :lol
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Tom Brady is a cheater!
I might make this my new signature.
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:lol
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Brett Favre wishes he was Tom Brady. :lol
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Brett Favre wishes he was Tom Brady. :lol
So do the Vikings.
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:rollin
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Yet it wasnt with Tom Brady. That's why with the contract coming up it seems plausible that their greesing the skids.
A lot of the owners, including Jerry, were very vocal about the fact that they didn't want Brady suspended for exactly the reason Kev suggests. The dude's ratings gold. Sticking it to Kraft was just more important, apparently. In reality it probably didn't hurt all that much as people still tuned in to see how a Bradyless NE would fare, most likely hoping to see them crash and burn. KC won't have that advantage. Besides, I think the Chiefs are kind of the NFL darlings right now. Everybody wants to see them score 100 points a game (and give up 99) and the league knows the value of that.
My company has a fairly large complex just west of Kansas City, and I was with a contingent from there this past week. They are positively giddy about this season. I kept my counsel, as I'm not that guy that likes stepping on butterfly wings, but they believe they are in line for a Lombardi Trophy.
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My company has a fairly large complex just west of Kansas City, and I was with a contingent from there this past week. They are positively giddy about this season. I kept my counsel, as I'm not that guy that likes stepping on butterfly wings, but they believe they are in line for a Lombardi Trophy.
I think most would agree that they are one of the top contenders this year. Heck, they were thisclose to making the Super Bowl last season, despite having a putrid defense. I know you think Andy Reid is crap and that he can't win the big game, but he certainly can; it's just a matter of if he does.
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I heard the Chiefs new slogan for the season is..."If the Blues can do it..."
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Not that I am a Chiefs fan, but I am sure that I, like many others, would enjoy seeing the Chiefs bully the Patriots and knock them out, similar to what the Blues did to the Bruins... :biggrin: :biggrin:
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Yeah but again we'll see Andy Reid choke on a large sub while calling offensive plays.
My evil Belichick smirk will drive you nuts.
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We'll see. Patriots D will be slightly improved this year. KC's will be a question mark. What we saw last year was when the game mattered Tom Brady dismantled them like they were nothing. Maybe Spagnulo will be the guy to prevent that, but not too many DCs have been able to pull it off. Nevertheless, we've still got a Reid-coached team which means questionable game calls and a [relative] lack of discipline. It takes luck to beat NE with those qualities.
Though it's already started out to be an incredibly lucky season for KC thus far.
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Not that I am a Chiefs fan, but I am sure that I, like many others, would enjoy seeing the Chiefs bully the Patriots and knock them out, similar to what the Blues did to the Bruins... :biggrin: :biggrin:
The Blues didn't bully the Bruins, nor do I believe the Bruins bullied the Canucks in 2011, which is the narrative around here. The margins in both series were very small. It's a game of inches, and that's all it is.
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Tim. Come on man. Both is true.
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Tim. Come on man. Both is true.
I don't believe either. The Bruins in 2011 and the Blues in 2019 were the "more physical" team, but neither loser was "bullied".
Two shots two inches to the left or right on Binnington in the 1st period and the Cup is in Boston. I love how these narratives take on a life of their own.
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When the other team allows it, it is. It's mirror image but on the other side.
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When the other team allows it, it is. It's mirror image but on the other side.
I agree with that.
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KC isn't nearly as far from a Super Bowl as, say, Dallas, but they aren't as close as they think they are. For a guy like Mahomes to carry that team on his back - which is what they will require to win the Super Bowl - he needs to be a Lawrence Taylor, or a Tom Brady. He's not that. With a week to prepare and the season on the line, my money is on the solid TEAM organization, and that's not now and never has been an Andy Reid team. Plus as the years go on, the monkey gets heavier. That's not helping.
Anything can happen - any given Sunday - but as a general rule...
(And I would be remiss if I didn't note that as much as I like the Bruins as a team, they are not the Patriots.)
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KC isn't nearly as far from a Super Bowl as, say, Dallas, but they aren't as close as they think they are. For a guy like Mahomes to carry that team on his back - which is what they will require to win the Super Bowl - he needs to be a Lawrence Taylor, or a Tom Brady. He's not that. With a week to prepare and the season on the line, my money is on the solid TEAM organization, and that's not now and never has been an Andy Reid team. Plus as the years go on, the monkey gets heavier. That's not helping.
Related to this discussion I watched the highlights of the Div championship game last night. Something that jumped out at me was a difference in the two teams' demeanors. NE, as is customary, plays with a workmanlike attitude. They're not above celebrating, but they know when to celebrate. The Chiefs would act as if a good play just won them the game. Converting a 3rd and 9 is a big deal, but it's only one of a great many big deals. Especially when you're in the first half and your'e down 14. You need a lot more. This isn't a big thing in the grand scheme of things, but it's indicative of a very different mindset which isn't really conducive to winning titles, and it is the sort of thing I expect Andy Reid to not get. Is it Marv Lewis bad? Certainly not. Does it matter? Yep. To be fair, in a rematch I suspect they'll have a very different attitude. I'd expect much greater focus. It still reflects on Andy Reid just not really getting a lot of the details, and those details add up.
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It's the same problem with Cam Newton (though he's worse), and I still remember something Steve Young said after a Thursday Night game: "He doesn't know what he needs to do to be a winner" or something to that effect. It's not just about lifting weights or hitting that 40 in 4.2. I think Andy falls into that category.
At least in football, there are far more examples of the smart, detail oriented team defeating the team of pure athletes than there are examples the other way around.
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It's still funny to read those posts knowing that if Dee Ford hadn't jumped offsides, the Chiefs win the AGCCG and possibly the Super Bowl, but I am sure Andy Reid's lack of attention to detail is why Ford jumped offsides, right? :P :lol :lol
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It's still funny to read those posts knowing that if Dee Ford hadn't jumped offsides, the Chiefs win the AGCCG and possibly the Super Bowl, but I am sure Andy Reid's lack of attention to detail is why Ford jumped offsides, right? :P :lol :lol
(https://i1.wp.com/blooperman.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Jesus_Christ_Billacheck-1.gif)
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So if a KC player hadn't cost them the game KC would have won. What an insightful thing to say.
Moreover, his screwup was exactly the sort of thing I'm on about. The dude lined up a foot over the damn line. Even Romo laughed at him. :lol Coaching a disciplined team is kind of important. It's sometimes the difference between winning and losing.
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Players make mistakes. It happens. And that one was a game-changing one. Not sure why anyone would take issue with it, although I get that some Patriots fans, after six titles, still rage on the inside at the idea of anyone not genuflecting to them. :P
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All I can say is people say the Pats are lucky. Happens too many times to be luck.
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Players make mistakes. It happens. And that one was a game-changing one. Not sure why anyone would take issue with it, although I get that some Patriots fans, after six titles, still rage on the inside at the idea of anyone not genuflecting to them. :P
Nah. All I've done is point out that one of Andy's flaws (as well as a ton of other coaches) is that they don't emphasize discipline and avoiding mental mistakes. While there's obviously some overlap, the Patriots still make plenty of penalties, you see well coached teams doing things that other teams don't. Playing all the way to the whistle. Treating every ball as live until it's conclusively not. Getting ready for the next play rather than celebrating the last one. Keeping an eye on their teammates.
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Players make mistakes. It happens. And that one was a game-changing one. Not sure why anyone would take issue with it, although I get that some Patriots fans, after six titles, still rage on the inside at the idea of anyone not genuflecting to them. :P
Nah. All I've done is point out that one of Andy's flaws (as well as a ton of other coaches) is that they don't emphasize discipline and avoiding mental mistakes. While there's obviously some overlap, the Patriots still make plenty of penalties, you see well coached teams doing things that other teams don't. Playing all the way to the whistle. Treating every ball as live until it's conclusively not. Getting ready for the next play rather than celebrating the last one. Keeping an eye on their teammates.
This.
Heads up I’m about to compliment the Patriots. Savor it. I promise it won’t happen again for a long time.
This is the biggest reason why New England has won six Super Bowls, nine AFC titles, sixteen division titles, and only missed the playoffs three times under Bill Belechick’s watch. They haven’t always been the most talented team, but they are always the most well prepared and well disciplined team on the field. You have to be nearly perfect to beat them, and even then you still might end up losing by a field goal.
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I'm playing Powerball
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(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1163/0618/products/hell-on-ice_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1462395209)
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Players make mistakes. It happens. And that one was a game-changing one. Not sure why anyone would take issue with it, although I get that some Patriots fans, after six titles, still rage on the inside at the idea of anyone not genuflecting to them. :P
Nah. All I've done is point out that one of Andy's flaws (as well as a ton of other coaches) is that they don't emphasize discipline and avoiding mental mistakes. While there's obviously some overlap, the Patriots still make plenty of penalties, you see well coached teams doing things that other teams don't. Playing all the way to the whistle. Treating every ball as live until it's conclusively not. Getting ready for the next play rather than celebrating the last one. Keeping an eye on their teammates.
All true. Cowherd talked the other day about how the gap between Belichick and the 2nd best coach (whomever that might be) is wide. I still remember Eric Mangini talking a year or two about how Patriots are not allowed to stretch for the goal line if they are getting tackled (unless it's a 4th down or last second play or something), as you risk getting stripped of the ball. And if you did it, you were getting benched. Protect the ball, go down and someone else will score on the next play. Little stuff like that is why the Patriots are always so disciplined.
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I've generally considered Pete Carroll number two on the list by a somewhat wide margin, but there's just as big a gap between him and Belichick. For as much shit as he took for the superbowl interception, that he was able make that decision in an absolute pressure-cooker situation with the clock beating him down was pretty remarkable, and not something I think most coaches would have gotten. IMO, where they really lost the game was, ironically, a breakdown of discipline. They actually had a top flight D and NE stuck in a terrible position, and they let Brady draw them offside. That was worse than the play call, and it's something that NE would never have let happen. Still, the dude's an excellent thinker, and he always finds a way to make do with what he's got, which seems to be less and less each year.
Payton probably has to be number 3, and then there's another big gap.
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I've generally considered Pete Carroll number two on the list by a somewhat wide margin, but there's just as big a gap between him and Belichick. For as much shit as he took for the superbowl interception, that he was able make that decision in an absolute pressure-cooker situation with the clock beating him down was pretty remarkable, and not something I think most coaches would have gotten. IMO, where they really lost the game was, ironically, a breakdown of discipline. They actually had a top flight D and NE stuck in a terrible position, and they let Brady draw them offside. That was worse than the play call, and it's something that NE would never have let happen. Still, the dude's an excellent thinker, and he always finds a way to make do with what he's got, which seems to be less and less each year.
Payton probably has to be number 3, and then there's another big gap.
I don't have a better pick for number 3, but for some reason I'm surprised you put Payton at 3. Though I suppose that's probably the best indicator of the size of the gap, because Payton is closer to Reid than Belichick when talking about the tings we're talking about (discipline, etc.). I think it's partly on Payton that his team basically collapsed after the missed pass interference call last year. That's partly the coach's job to help keep the focus.
As for the Patriots/Chiefs, I understand the "Dee Ford" line of thinking, and it's tactically correct, but strategically flawed. First, that's not an "official's judgment" call. It's a dead ball foul, in the sense that he was lined up that way prior to the snap, and can move if need be to reset his position. It's on the Chief's. Second, IF you are going to play "what if" (which I'm not a huge fan of; we can "what if" David Tyree didn't have a huge melon head too), you have to go whole hog: why were they in that position to begin with? The greatest offense in the history of the NFL, MLB, NASL and the NBA combined didn't score one point in the entire first quarter. If I was more "superstitious", I might even say that Belichick got into Dee Ford's head; the offense wasn't going to win this game, the DEFENSE was, and they knew it. And, guess what, I'm superstitious enough to say that.
Plus, in the next game, the Patriots did the exact same thing; they faced a high flying offense, and made them play a different game (which they tried, and couldn't do). I think any other coach, and Dee Ford could have lined up in the parking lot and it wouldn't have changed the outcome one bit, but Belichick got his team in a position to win. You can contrast that with Reid all day long and it won't be pretty. (I've already gave you two examples including the Reid-coached best offense in the universe going scoreless for 30 minutes in their biggest game over the last 25 years at least).
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That's great, but every single coach in the NFL is going to come up way short compared to Belichick, so not sure exactly why that analogy is needed other than finding another way to take a shot at a coach nearly everyone considers one of the NFL's best.
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That's great, but every single coach in the NFL is going to come up way short compared to Belichick, so not sure exactly why that analogy is needed other than finding another way to take a shot at a coach nearly everyone considers one of the NFL's best.
I don't reckon you were responding to me, but for my part I'm questioning that early everyone should consider Reid one of the NFL's best. As I see it some of his flaws have been huge components in costing them some big games. Several of which were against NE.
In any case, I think it does just illustrate how big the gap is between Belichick and everybody else. While that's not fair to everybody else, it is what it is. He demonstrates what's possible, and others get criticized for not being able to do it.
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That's great, but every single coach in the NFL is going to come up way short compared to Belichick, so not sure exactly why that analogy is needed other than finding another way to take a shot at a coach nearly everyone considers one of the NFL's best.
I don't reckon you were responding to me, but for my part I'm questioning that early everyone should consider Reid one of the NFL's best. As I see it some of his flaws have been huge components in costing them some big games. Several of which were against NE.
In any case, I think it does just illustrate how big the gap is between Belichick and everybody else. While that's not fair to everybody else, it is what it is. He demonstrates what's possible, and others get criticized for not being able to do it.
Yeah. What he said.
Ask someone in Philly if they consider him "one of the NFL's best". Thirty years from now, given that nothing radically changes, he will not be in that pantheon.
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Payton probably has to be number 3, and then there's another big gap.
Payton is way overrated. I posted my research last year on that.
Not including last year's 13-3 record and trip to the NFC CG...
In the 11 years (he was suspended for a 12th year) that he and his HOF QB have been together:
The have averaged a 9-7 season
Have had 4 losing seasons plus one 8-8 season
Have been to ONE SB
Had been to TWO NFC CGs (1-1 record)
Missed the playoffs FIVE times.
If he's really the third best coach, then the coaching in the league blows. Which it does, obviously. I blame the owners, honestly, more than I blame the coaches.
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Yeah, I agree with that. Payton is a good head coach, but only one Super Bowl appearance in nearly 15 seasons with a top 10 all-time QB doesn't exactly scream greatness, and I hold last year's NFCCG loss against him; he lost his cool following the non-call and his team followed him right along.
Barto, I hear what you are saying, but I will put it this way: I cannot think of 5 current NFL head coaches that I would say are better than Andy Reid. His track record over nearly 20 years speaks for itself.
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Andy Reid has 2 SB rings if there is no Belichick.
Andy Reid is a whipping boy in these parts, but I think it's unfair.
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Yeah, I agree with that. Payton is a good head coach, but only one Super Bowl appearance in nearly 15 seasons with a top 10 all-time QB doesn't exactly scream greatness, and I hold last year's NFCCG loss against him; he lost his cool following the non-call and his team followed him right along.
Barto, I hear what you are saying, but I will put it this way: I cannot think of 5 current NFL head coaches that I would say are better than Andy Reid. His track record over nearly 20 years speaks for itself.
Don't take this as me arguing with you. Reid as a top 6 QB doesn't bother me at all. This whole thing started because I said he was a liability with regards to beating out NE this year, because he is. His overall record isn't any better than Payton's, and he has a losing record in the playoffs, as opposed to Payton. Dude's had a lot of very good teams, nine playoff spots in the NFC-E isn't an easy thing to do. Nor is five more in the A-W but he has nothing to show for it. And in some of those cases it's directly attributable to him.
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Don't take this as me arguing with you. Reid as a top 6 QB doesn't bother me at all. This whole thing started because I said he was a liability with regards to beating out NE this year, because he is. His overall record isn't any better than Payton's, and he has a losing record in the playoffs, as opposed to Payton. Dude's had a lot of very good teams, nine playoff spots in the NFC-E isn't an easy thing to do. Nor is five more in the A-W but he has nothing to show for it. And in some of those cases it's directly attributable to him.
I am sitting here imagining how it would look to see Andy Reid trying to avoid a pass rush...:P :P
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The headset flies off.... :lol
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He might be as fast as Tom Brady is now. :P
Which reminds of a Bill Burr (who's a Patriots fan) quote about Brady:
"Like did you see last year, when he threw that pick-six? When he dove to tackle that guy, it looked like somebody threw a dead body out of a car.”
:lol :lol
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Oh I love Bill Burr and I heard that line. Too damn funny.
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You wanna laugh for like an hour straight? Just watch clips of Bill Burr on Conan's show. Non-stop hilarity.
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I saw him live last year. My jaw was sore from laughing so damn much.
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Giants wide receivers group is off to a good start....
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So, I'm watching the Braves/Nats game on ESPN tonight, and I see along The Bottom Line that Le'veon Bell apologized to fantasy owners.
Apologized? To fantasy owners?
Are you fucking kidding me? I know this isn't news, but holy shit, this guy is a douche.
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In fantasy, I don't accept his apology. :lol
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So, I'm watching the Braves/Nats game on ESPN tonight, and I see along The Bottom Line that Le'veon Bell apologized to fantasy owners.
Apologized? To fantasy owners?
Are you fucking kidding me? I know this isn't news, but holy shit, this guy is a douche.
I read something a year or two ago that talked about how fantasy sports (NFL in particular) has become a huge money making industry. While I agree with you that his apology seems to be very silly, I know that the league takes it fairly serious, and there's huge amounts of money involved.
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So, I'm watching the Braves/Nats game on ESPN tonight, and I see along The Bottom Line that Le'veon Bell apologized to fantasy owners.
Apologized? To fantasy owners?
Are you fucking kidding me? I know this isn't news, but holy shit, this guy is a douche.
Honestly it makes sense in a way. He took the year off because he knew his worth, and there’s no sympathy in business, but the fans who missed him last year deserve an apology.
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Like it or not, fantasy football is a big reason football is king now.
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Hmmm...I thought fantasy was created because real football was already king. :justjen
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This could be a "chicken and the egg" scenario. ;)
Football was already getting bigger, and then FF really exploded and took it to the next level. Heck, half of the guys in our local FF auction league, by their own admission, only watch football nowadays for the fantasy aspect of it, and I've heard that from a lot of other people. I mean, who's gonna watch a Jags/Titans game (outside of fans of those teams)? Fantasy football fans, that's who!! :lol :lol
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I think football was king before FF was a thing, but FF definitely made it bigger, but in my mind, the reason why football is king is because you could watch a Jags/Titan game and enjoy it. Football is just a sport that you can really enjoy any game of (well, I mean you can watch other teams for the sport, obviously there are terrible games sometimes that you wish you didn't watch). These days I hardly watch football outside of my team, but when I was younger I could sit all Sunday (or Saturday since I love college ball too) and watch whoever was on TV.
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There's this assumption that Tom Brady's career is going to end with a whimper, rather than a thud. The expectation is that he goes downhill like Manning and they have to shove him out the door. Seems to me the more likely outcome is that he gets injured and never recovers. If the dude breaks a leg, or destroys a knee, would he ever play again? That would be a real bummer. Like when Janikowski pulled his hamstring and you knew that you just saw his final play. Or Michael Irvin's final play, getting booed by the marginally sentient excrement in Veterans Stadium. I get that the dude can still play, and he has no reason to think that'll be the case as long as he's healthy. Misfortune happens, though, and he's tempting fate with each season he plays. That's not the way the GOAT should go out.
Eh, just a random musing.
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I am pretty sure Brady honestly thinks he can play till he is 45, and if his o-line protects him like they did in the first two playoff games last year, he might be able to pull it off, but if teams can get pressure on him and knock him around a little, it will be difficult since injuries simply do not heal as quickly over the age of 40, no matter how much black magic that fake doctor of his uses, or whatever else he does.
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There's this assumption that Tom Brady's career is going to end with a whimper, rather than a thud. The expectation is that he goes downhill like Manning and they have to shove him out the door. Seems to me the more likely outcome is that he gets injured and never recovers. If the dude breaks a leg, or destroys a knee, would he ever play again? That would be a real bummer. Like when Janikowski pulled his hamstring and you knew that you just saw his final play. Or Michael Irvin's final play, getting booed by the marginally sentient excrement in Veterans Stadium. I get that the dude can still play, and he has no reason to think that'll be the case as long as he's healthy. Misfortune happens, though, and he's tempting fate with each season he plays. That's not the way the GOAT should go out.
Eh, just a random musing.
I agree with all of that.
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Well, he only has one more year left contractually.
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Well, he only has one more year left contractually.
2 options on both sides. They are keeping it year to year. Understandable on both sides.
I do agree with El Barto. It will be an injury that will end it. Actually, it was Peyton's injury that finally took it's toll. Those neck surgeries were just too much.
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Well, he only has one more year left contractually.
2 options on both sides. They are keeping it year to year. Understandable on both sides.
I do agree with El Barto. It will be an injury that will end it. Actually, it was Peyton's injury that finally took it's toll. Those neck surgeries were just too much.
Peyton's injury was the whimper, though. He kept playing with diminishing skill, and was able to retire on a high note thanks to a world class defense. At this point any injury Brady suffers stands a pretty good chance of being a career-ender, even where other players would recover. He simply doesn't have the time. I'd just hate to see him go out in such an anticlimactic way, like Seabass.
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Is it more anti-climatic to go out on injury or by being a shell of your former self with everyone rooting for your back up? Not saying that will happen to Brady, but hypothetically. It's just kind of rare to have a hollywood ending to your career.
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There's this assumption that Tom Brady's career is going to end with a whimper, rather than a thud. The expectation is that he goes downhill like Manning and they have to shove him out the door. Seems to me the more likely outcome is that he gets injured and never recovers.
All it takes is one hit to end a season or worse. He's tempting fate and should probably bow out gracefully. We all know he's the GOAT. There's nothing left to prove.
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Well, he only has one more year left contractually.
2 options on both sides. They are keeping it year to year. Understandable on both sides.
I do agree with El Barto. It will be an injury that will end it. Actually, it was Peyton's injury that finally took it's toll. Those neck surgeries were just too much.
Peyton's injury was the whimper, though. He kept playing with diminishing skill, and was able to retire on a high note thanks to a world class defense. At this point any injury Brady suffers stands a pretty good chance of being a career-ender, even where other players would recover. He simply doesn't have the time. I'd just hate to see him go out in such an anticlimactic way, like Seabass.
HGH can keep you going.
Though I'm for it. These guys give up their bodies for us. I'm all for it.
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Though I'm for it. These guys give up their bodies for us. I'm all for it.
Putting down all those beers and sausages during the games, it seems you have returned the favor! :lol
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Is it more anti-climatic to go out on injury or by being a shell of your former self with everyone rooting for your back up? Not saying that will happen to Brady, but hypothetically. It's just kind of rare to have a hollywood ending to your career.
Yup.
(https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/mm/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn-s3.si.com%2Fs3fs-public%2Fstyles%2Fmarquee_large_2x%2Fpublic%2F%255Bcurrent-date%253Acustom%253AY%255D%2F%255Bcurrent-date%253Acustom%253Am%255D%2F%255Bcurrent-date%253Acustom%253Ad%255D%2Fplayers-retire-champions.jpg%3Fitok%3DTIo4kRui&w=1000&q=70)
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Though I'm for it. These guys give up their bodies for us. I'm all for it.
Putting down all those beers and sausages during the games, it seems you have returned the favor! :lol
No. I need HGH! :lol
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Is it more anti-climatic to go out on injury or by being a shell of your former self with everyone rooting for your back up? Not saying that will happen to Brady, but hypothetically. It's just kind of rare to have a hollywood ending to your career.
Yup.
(https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/mm/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn-s3.si.com%2Fs3fs-public%2Fstyles%2Fmarquee_large_2x%2Fpublic%2F%255Bcurrent-date%253Acustom%253AY%255D%2F%255Bcurrent-date%253Acustom%253Am%255D%2F%255Bcurrent-date%253Acustom%253Ad%255D%2Fplayers-retire-champions.jpg%3Fitok%3DTIo4kRui&w=1000&q=70)
Still the gold standard. Peyton went out on a high note, but he was done. Kaput. Elway was winding down, but he still had some game left in him.
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Elway was still a borderline top 5 QB in his last few years; he just couldn't run around like he could in his younger days.
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Balance always helps and Elway still had a gun.
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Flacco still has a gun, so there's hope, right?
:lol :lol :lol
:censored :censored
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Ok. Elway had a brain too. :lol
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Elway was still a borderline top 5 QB in his last few years; he just couldn't run around like he could in his younger days.
I know that you already know, but I'm posting it anyways...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrYsO67ZZCU
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Watching the Pats game tonight, and they just announced that Don Banks passed away. Holy shit. It's been awhile, but I used to think he was as good as they came on the NFL.
He's my wife's age. Way to young...
Seems he died in Canton after the HOF ceremony. Yikes.
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He was at Canton for thr HOF introductions. I saw his son's tweet. Too damn young.
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I wouldn't be surprised if we hear undrafted rookie Jakobi Meyers's name called more than first round pick N'Keal Harry's this year.
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I haven't been able to say this since I was a kid, but I'm really looking forward to watching the Browns this year.
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I wouldn't be surprised if we hear undrafted rookie Jakobi Meyers's name called more than first round pick N'Keal Harry's this year.
Knowing Belichick, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear from undrafted rookie Jakobi Meyers was cut next week. :lol
Seriously he looked good. All of the young receivers looked good.
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I wouldn't be surprised if we hear undrafted rookie Jakobi Meyers's name called more than first round pick N'Keal Harry's this year.
Knowing Belichick, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear from undrafted rookie Jakobi Meyers was cut next week. :lol
Seriously he looked good. All of the young receivers looked good.
Well, of course you maybe right. At the same time JM has looked great all through camp, thus far, and he's got a good rapport with Brady. Also, he was a quarterback before he was a receiver, and that makes him pretty much a textbook Belichick guy. Harry's got the high upside, but this kid looks like he's going to be a workhorse.
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The Jets starting offense looked good in their lone drive last night, even without Bell. The near interception was a bit concerning, which was just as much a bad throw and and bad decision by Darnold as it was a good read and unfinished play by the DB. The offense recovered though and made quick work of the defense after. A promising start to the season so far.
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Watching the Pats game tonight, and they just announced that Don Banks passed away.
Sorry...who?
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Don Banks. Australian composer of concert, jazz and commercial (soundtrack) music. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Banks
Duh.
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Don Banks. Australian composer of concert, jazz and commercial (soundtrack) music. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Banks
Duh.
Well...yeah...that's who came up when I googled, but seeing as how he died nearly 40 years ago....
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Don Banks. Australian composer of concert, jazz and commercial (soundtrack) music. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Banks
Duh.
Well...yeah...that's who came up when I googled, but seeing as how he died nearly 40 years ago....
:tup
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I am pretty sure Steelers fans everywhere are having a good laugh right now at the expense of the Raiders and Antonio Brown.
As are fans of 30 of the other 31 teams not named the Pittsburgh Steelers... :lol :lol :lol :lol
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He is bat shit crazy. Got his way his whole life and acts like it.
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He is to WR's in the 10's what Terrell Owens was in the 00's: an awesome WR whose diva personality often overshadows his on-the-field greatness.
And he really make you appreciate studs like Julio Jones and DeAndre Hopkins who exhibit zero diva traits.
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I am pretty sure Steelers fans everywhere are having a good laugh right now at the expense of the Raiders and Antonio Brown.
As are fans of 30 of the other 31 teams not named the Pittsburgh Steelers... :lol :lol :lol :lol
I don't get it. Shouldn't the Steelers fans be laughing hardest of all?
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Meaning we all had a chance to sign him but passed for obvious reasons I'm guessing.
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The Raiders are already a laughingstock, and this just makes them a bigger one.
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Puts Ben in a different light right now.
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Puts Ben in a different light right now.
I like Ben, but he's kind of an asshole. Not as much as the media likes to point out, but he deserves some of the blame.
As far as the deal with AB goes, it saddens me more than anything. When a person has that much talent I always pull for them to achieve greatness on a personal level. Of course, I wasn't really looking forward to him setting the world on fire in a Raiders uniform, but the level that he's dropped to since week 17 of last season is difficult to watch.
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I was thinking him calling out teammates out in the open last year. I'm assuming that the likes of AB was out of control behind the scenes.
K know Ben's history. It just changes the perception from last year.
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I was thinking him calling out teammates out in the open last year. I'm assuming that the likes of AB was out of control behind the scenes.
K know Ben's history. It just changes the perception from last year.
Oh, I have no doubt that AB was out of control. I think that the Steelers were one of a very few organizations that could contain him to an extent. It would have done him good had he ended up in Boston. Bill would have knocked him down several pegs. Instead, he ended up with Gruden and as much as I think that he has a good football mind (X's and O's), that organization just looks like an excuse for poor behaviour to me.
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Brown never would have lasted in NE. Heck, Randy Moss only lasted a little over 3 seasons there.
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Bill never would have considered Brown. Moss had hit rock bottom. He knew that he was getting his final chance and that he was one dumb move from the end of his career. A few years later that's exactly what happened. It wasn't a even a week before he started to become a distraction and he was shipped off. Brown hasn't learned his lesson yet. When he bottoms out a good coach will give him a shot. Until then he's radioactive.
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Exactly. Cheap money for a mid round pick.
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I haven't been able to say this since I was a kid, but I'm really looking forward to watching the Browns this year.
It's weird, isn't it? I just hope that if they play well and start to have success they don't get full of themselves and it'll start from the QB. He's gotta keep himself in-check first or it'll unravel.
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I haven't been able to say this since I was a kid, but I'm really looking forward to watching the Browns this year.
It's weird, isn't it? I just hope that if they play well and start to have success they don't get full of themselves and it'll start from the QB. He's gotta keep himself in-check first or it'll unravel.
I don’t think Baker will be a problem. Supposedly he’s already like a coach in the locker room and I remember last year after a loss, he said something along the lines of him having to play better instead of blaming others. He seems to have a good head on his shoulder as well as a high football IQ. As long as he stays healthy and management continues to build around him, Baker could really be something special for Cleveland.
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The Raiders are already a laughingstock, and this just makes them a bigger one.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2c/a6/c6/2ca6c6da4dd1094815ed319889eafe55.jpg)
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I don’t think Baker will be a problem. Supposedly he’s already like a coach in the locker room and I remember last year after a loss, he said something along the lines of him having to play better instead of blaming others. He seems to have a good head on his shoulder as well as a high football IQ. As long as he stays healthy and management continues to build around him, Baker could really be something special for Cleveland.
Mayfield has impressed me so far in the pros, although he needs to get over some of the criticism by Colin Cowherd (who is clearly in Baker's head). How he handles having a mega-diva like Odell Beckham will be interesting.
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Every off season I forget just how boring preseason is. It's like I'm expecting it to all of a sudden not be boring and yet it always is. :lolpalm:
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The games themselves are boring, but just knowing the real games are only weeks away is what's exciting. :metal :metal
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Every off season I forget just how boring preseason is. It's like I'm expecting it to all of a sudden not be boring and yet it always is. :lolpalm:
Boom. Exactly how I feel. "Yay, FOOTBALL!! :tup"... "Eh, give it another four weeks.... :tdwn"
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:lol
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Josh Gordon is back...until his next suspension. :lol :lol
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Josh Gordon is back...until his next suspension. :lol :lol
$10 million talent with a 10 cent head.
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Yeah, I'm playing the wait and see game there.
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I'm kind of torn on Gordon. As a Pats fan I'm glad he's back. He makes them a better team. At the same time the dude really does have a problem. Part of me thinks the best thing would have been to hold off reinstating him simply to give him something to continue working towards. That might well be the best thing for him. At the same time he can't keep aspiring into his 50s, so at some point you they to lay off. I suppose it comes down to the Patriots having a mechanism in place to keep him squared away and hope for the best.
And I've been as guilty of calling the dude a dipshit as everybody else, but after the last suspension I changed my mind. The dude does have a problem but it's not stupidity.
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https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/08/22/patrick-chung-new-england-patriots-news-meredith-new-hampshire-cocaine-arrest/
What the fuck kind of state doesn't differentiate between different types and different quantities of drugs? Any amount of any schedule I-IV controlled substance is a 2nd degree felony. That makes a single .25 Xanax the same as a freakin kilo of heroin. WTF?
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That's why I don't play El Barto. :lol
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(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgiphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fmedia%2FL4TYWQn8rALRu%2Fgiphy.gif&hash=b652fee0b26ad670dbf3bb910f40d9f6aa9fe7d1)
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Andrew Luck retires! :omg:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-colts-andrew-luck-to-announce-retirement/ar-AAGhfpx?li=BBnba9I
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I'm confused to why he even was at that game if he was retiring.
The fans booed him, was he expecting a Standing Ovation?
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Any fan who booed him tonight is an asshole.
He has gotten the crap beat out of him for most of his NFL career, and it's clear it has wore him down. I give him full props for making this tough decision.
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Shocked to wake up this morning and find out he retired.
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People who booed Luck after he gave them the best years of his life and put his body through hell for them don't deserve to be called sports fans. Entitled gits, the lot of them.
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Any fan who booed him tonight is an asshole.
He has gotten the crap beat out of him for most of his NFL career, and it's clear it has wore him down. I give him full props for making this tough decision.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I'll miss watching Luck play; initially I was shocked when I heard the news but when I watched the press conference, it made a lot more sense... very smart move on his part.
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I was pretty surprised, but not completely surprised. It was obvious that his new injuries were not healing quickly. Heck, I had been avoiding all Colts in fantasy drafts I was doing because Luck's health seemed to be in question and their offense takes a bit hit without him.
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I will truly miss Captain Andrew Luck on Twitter.
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Any fan who booed him tonight is an asshole.
He has gotten the crap beat out of him for most of his NFL career, and it's clear it has wore him down. I give him full props for making this tough decision.
I'm with you on that. I'm just not sure how anyone - fan or otherwise - can look on this guy and not say "class act all around". He put in the effort, and - like so many SAY (Paul Stanley!!) - "if he couldn't do it at the level he knew he should", he stepped back for the good of his team, his body, his family, and him.
I've got nothing but respect for that guy, top to bottom.
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Any fan who booed him tonight is an asshole.
He has gotten the crap beat out of him for most of his NFL career, and it's clear it has wore him down. I give him full props for making this tough decision.
Yup. There are a lot of brain-dead sports “fans” out there. I had to call out some morons on my own team’s board for calling him soft. So many people completely lack perspective, it’s pretty sad.
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Oof just saw this on twitter
Troy Aikman
@TroyAikman
11h
That’s total bullshit Doug. What qualifies you to decide how someone should live their life? So you’re now the authority on what motivates Andrew Luck? And if his decisions don’t fit into what you think is best for him then you rip him? Guess that keeps you employed on FS1. Nice
in response to
Doug Gottlieb
@GottliebShow
· Aug 24
Retiring cause rehabbing is “too hard” is the most millennial thing ever #AndrewLuck
Man, that shot from Troy about being on FS1 is fantastic
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Awesome comeback by Aikman. :tup :tup
Gottlieb is a dope. He fills in for Cowherd on occasion and I always turn it off right away when that is the case and immediately delete it from my DVR.
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I don't know him well enough (uh, not at all) but that's a dick thing to say. I watched the Luck retirement statement, and he was upfront, honest and fair. He didn't use buzz words or code words, or hide behind "millenial" nonsense. He's been almost constantly injured, and it's impacting his quality of life. That should be enough for anyone (honestly, if Luck just said "yeah, healthy, feeling good, focused, in shape, but i just don't want to do this anymore", that should be enough, but that's me.)
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I think fans are emotional because of the timing. He seemed to be back last year and his announcement came in the pre season where hope rings eternal.
Now look at the same age with Gronk. Play down. Hinting for years that he was thinking about retirement. Retires before preseason. The fans were prepared.
We fans do dumb things when invested in our teams. They will regret it later.
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And say dumb things.
See: this past season's hockey thread.
No wait, don't go see it. :lol :lol
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Did the knuckleheads that were booing him know that he was retiring, or was it simply that he wasn't playing that game due to injury? If it's the latter then they deserved to get blindsided with a whole truckload of Jacobi Brissett.
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I was thinking the same thing Kev from the other side. Lol
Honestly that's 2 years Indy fans were duped into season tickets thinking their franchise QB was playing. The team should have had a Friday afternoon press conference as well that would have not have had the fans boo him.
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Aikman will take any chance he can to drop a bomb on FS1. He hates Skip Bayless and the fact that they are essentially employed by the same company. I'm with him. I have long called sports radio 'hate radio'. I had a buddy that listened to it all the time and had to ask how he could listen to that garbage. They seem to hate everything and everyone in sports but that's all they talk about. It's toxic and that is Aikman's take on Bayless.
In rosier news, the Colts gave Luck a massive parting gift. Props to Irsay.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27460243/sources-colts-recoup-money-luck
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Troy vs Skip goes back a long way. Bayless was the head sports writer for the Dallas Morning News during 8's playing days. At one point he wrote a book that started the rumor that Troy was queer, based on speculation from that incompetent boob Barry Switzer. Truth is Troy is beloved down here, and Bayless is loathed, although that's exactly what works for him so I guess it's a win win.
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Jim Murray of 98.5 The Sports Hub — the Patriots' flagship radio station — tweeted Thursday that a source told him an alarm was tripped for a possible breaking and entering at Chung's Meredith home. As police were checking on the home, they reportedly found the cocaine.
The official indictment includes very few details, other than Chung's name, date of birth and address. The charge states that he "did possess or have under his control a quantity of the controlled drug cocaine," and that he did so "knowingly," but does not include any further details.
Something tells me that Patrick Chung's got a housekeeper that's fixing to earn a six figure bonus.
Pro-tip: Always stash your drugs in something opaque. A dozen brown cosmetics jars cost $10 on Amazon, FFS. I realize he wasn't expecting Johnny to enter his home while he was away, but nobody ever does. He had a lot of protection in that scenario that he waived by leaving contraband in plain sight.
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Pro tip. Lol
Just heard on the same station Jjm Murray is on that Chung pleaded not guilty.
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Pro tip. Lol
Just heard on the same station Jjm Murray is on that Chung pleaded not guilty.
Of course he did. The dope's not his. It belongs to the caretaker while he's away playing football.
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Any fan who booed him tonight is an asshole.
He has gotten the crap beat out of him for most of his NFL career, and it's clear it has wore him down. I give him full props for making this tough decision.
That was probably mostly due to timing. Most players announce retirement shortly after the previous season ends or earlier during the off-season. Not two weeks before the regular season starts. I can see why a lot of fans would be pissed off about that.
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Pro tip. Lol
Just heard on the same station Jjm Murray is on that Chung pleaded not guilty.
Of course he did. The dope's not his. It belongs to the caretaker while he's away playing football.
Who was it at the rookie symposium told them to have a fall guy?
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Cris Carter.
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That's right. Thanks Chris.
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Awesome comeback by Aikman. :tup :tup
Gottlieb is a dope. He fills in for Cowherd on occasion and I always turn it off right away when that is the case and immediately delete it from my DVR.
And yet you tolerate Cowturd?
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I about lost my mind when my local affiliate changed from Rome to Cowherd in the morning. I know Rome has more than his share of detractors, and his show has gone way downhill from before he moved to CBS Radio, but damn Cowherd is atrocious. There was about a week or two when I liked Gottlieb and listened to his show, then I quickly moved on from him too.
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Cowherd is fine in small doses (like any good sports talking head). Rome and Cowherd both have that obnoxious part of their personality that comes out at times, but you almost have to have that to survive in that industry.
That was probably mostly due to timing. Most players announce retirement shortly after the previous season ends or earlier during the off-season. Not two weeks before the regular season starts. I can see why a lot of fans would be pissed off about that.
I totally get having that immediate, emotional reaction to news like that, but to boo the guy like that?
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I listened to Rome back in the 90s -- back when he and Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton were on the same station. Then he disappeared from the LA area airwaves, and I wondered for awhile what happened to him. Once a year or so I catch his show on TV when I'm off work on a weekday, and it's BAD.
Cowherd is one of those guys who says stupid stuff just to get a reaction and generate talk, but I can't stand him at all. Fortunately, I'm almost never in my car when he's on. Dan Patrick in the morning is great, as are Petros and Money during afternoon drive (and I completely get that a lot of folks hate Petros, but I think he's hilarious when paired with Money). Midday around here is Fred Roggin and Rodney Peete or Mason and Ireland. Roggin should be better, but Rodney Peete is godawful (as is Rob Parker, whom they have on fairly frequently for no apparent reason). Mason and Ireland are mostly good, but they're very Lakers-centric.
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Cowherd is fine in small doses (like any good sports talking head). Rome and Cowherd both have that obnoxious part of their personality that comes out at times, but you almost have to have that to survive in that industry.
That was probably mostly due to timing. Most players announce retirement shortly after the previous season ends or earlier during the off-season. Not two weeks before the regular season starts. I can see why a lot of fans would be pissed off about that.
I totally get having that immediate, emotional reaction to news like that, but to boo the guy like that?
Yeah, I know. He definitely didn't deserve that, but on the other hand, I'm not surprised the way certain fans are now days. At the other end of the spectrum, how bout those Jason Witten fans? He retires, sucks at broadcasting on Monday Night and now he's back again in Dallas. He better have a damn good season or he'll never hear the end of it. :lol
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Pro tip. Lol
Just heard on the same station Jjm Murray is on that Chung pleaded not guilty.
Of course he did. The dope's not his. It belongs to the caretaker while he's away playing football.
His caretaker Ty Law's cousin. :lol
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Oh, and I love Troy Aikman. Underrated QB.
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Troy Aikman, the white Jay-Z.
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At the other end of the spectrum, how bout those Jason Witten fans? He retires, sucks at broadcasting on Monday Night and now he's back again in Dallas. He better have a damn good season or he'll never hear the end of it. :lol
The only chance Witten has to have a good season, at least in statistical terms, is if the Cowboys plummet and he is able to pile up some garbage yards and catches in some games, while averaging 7 yards a catch again. :lol
Oh, and I love Troy Aikman. Underrated QB.
Aikman was a very good QB, but he never struck me as a great one. He was never a QB who could put a team on his back and carry them. Notice that the second the Cowboys weren't stock piled with talent everywhere, Aikman was far less effective and they were an average team. And heck, I like Aikman and think he is a really good color commentator, but it's how I see it. He was great from 1992-1995, but for the rest of his NFL career (8 seasons), he was an under .500 QB (and right at .500 if you take away his 0-11 rookie season), and threw more INT's than TD's. Despite his three Super Bowl wins, there is a reason he is never mentioned as one of the best QB's ever. Heck, even during that 1992-1995 run, he was never an All-Pro (per the AP, the one that everyone pays attention to), not even second team!
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https://nesn.com/2019/08/ex-patriot-defends-andrew-lucks-retirement-with-fascinating-twitter-thread/
Very interesting..and kind of sad.
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At the other end of the spectrum, how bout those Jason Witten fans? He retires, sucks at broadcasting on Monday Night and now he's back again in Dallas. He better have a damn good season or he'll never hear the end of it. :lol
The only chance Witten has to have a good season, at least in statistical terms, is if the Cowboys plummet and he is able to pile up some garbage yards and catches in some games, while averaging 7 yards a catch again. :lol
Yeah, you're probably right. The expectations have diminished over the years. Now days, fans are just waiting to be surprised. :omg: Had his yards after the catch been much more productive, he would've been one of the best all around TE's in the game.
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https://nesn.com/2019/08/ex-patriot-defends-andrew-lucks-retirement-with-fascinating-twitter-thread/
Very interesting..and kind of sad.
The name Rich Ohrnberger might not mean a ton to most people
oh I know him, former PSU OL. Good guy.
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Gronk new venture. A line of CBD products. Get out! Lol. No surprise. You hear how much it works medicinally.
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Doesn't seem any different than any other pointless endorsement. For a while down here you could buy a car at a Troy Aikman dealership and celebrate by eating Nolan Ryan beef at Randy White's bar and grill, all on properties probably managed by Roger Staubach.
Besides, can this really be any worse than those fucking Tide commercials?
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:lol
I see a lot of players taking a year off, taking this and healing up physically and mentally before returning to the NFL.
Time for the NFL to modernize for the players sake.
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My man Jared Goff get's paid! Smart move on the Rams part. He would have almost certainly cost more if they had waited till next offseason to do the deal. Or even after Dak's deal.
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:lol
I see a lot of players taking a year off, taking this and healing up physically and mentally before returning to the NFL.
Time for the NFL to modernize for the players sake.
I agree; I don't know what the answer is myself, but I think there are things that can be done to make this more "holistic" for the players.
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It should be. I have a feeling the NFL will bargain and will give up the weed punishment to keep the Article 46 in place.
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The Raiders are getting ready to suspend Antonio Brown.
You can't make this stuff up.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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The Raiders are getting ready to suspend Antonio Brown.
You can't make this stuff up.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
I love all the reactions on Twitter about this and giving props to Tomlin for apparently controlling a major problem child for so long.
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The Raiders are getting ready to suspend Antonio Brown.
You can't make this stuff up.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
I love all the reactions on Twitter about this and giving props to Tomlin for apparently controlling a major problem child for so long.
Or for helping to mold him into the monster he's become.
This is all glorious and fantastic. Those of us in Steelers country right now are soaking this in.
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We're gonna find out how smart the Raiders are here. Given his history of being a bitch they surely had to work in an escape clause should he be uncontrollable. At this point they really only have a few options. Slap him down hard and hope he gets his act together. Let him go on being a bitch and destroy the rest of the team. Get rid of his silly ass, which requires that they had the forethought to provide for that possibility.
edit: an agent already went over this scenario a couple of weeks ago. If I understand this correctly, and I probably don't, they have until Sunday to jettison him. They can cut him loose right now and it will cost them very little (aside from the 3 and 5 they gave to Pitt). If he's on the 53 man roster at the start of their game MNF then they're stuck with him for 2 years as the dead cap will become overwhelming.
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The Raiders are getting ready to suspend Antonio Brown.
You can't make this stuff up.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
I love all the reactions on Twitter about this and giving props to Tomlin for apparently controlling a major problem child for so long.
Or for helping to mold him into the monster he's become.
This is all glorious and fantastic. Those of us in Steelers country right now are soaking this in.
It makes us Bronco fans happy too!
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edit: an agent already went over this scenario a couple of weeks ago. If I understand this correctly, and I probably don't, they have until Sunday to jettison him. They can cut him loose right now and it will cost them very little (aside from the 3 and 5 they gave to Pitt). If he's on the 53 man roster at the start of their game MNF then they're stuck with him for 2 years as the dead cap will become overwhelming.
I think this is correct (I probably don't understand it either). The question I see floating around now, is whether or not the Raiders can point to specific language in his deal that will force him to either not get guaranteed money or pay back the guarantee he's already received or something of that nature. Assuming they do cut him before the MNF game.
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edit: an agent already went over this scenario a couple of weeks ago. If I understand this correctly, and I probably don't, they have until Sunday to jettison him. They can cut him loose right now and it will cost them very little (aside from the 3 and 5 they gave to Pitt). If he's on the 53 man roster at the start of their game MNF then they're stuck with him for 2 years as the dead cap will become overwhelming.
I think this is correct (I probably don't understand it either). The question I see floating around now, is whether or not the Raiders can point to specific language in his deal that will force him to either not get guaranteed money or pay back the guarantee he's already received or something of that nature. Assuming they do cut him before the MNF game.
Conduct detrimental to the team and violating team policies would cover it. I don't think there's really a question that they could do it. The question will be how strong is their case when the inevitable lawsuit is filed. Refusing to attend practices, being insubordinate, and being a major distraction during camp will give them a case, but they'd wind up settling. Still, aside from principle (the dude doesn't deserve shit) settling would likely be an excellent deal for them. Presumably the settlement wouldn't count against the cap so they could pay him something kinda sorta close to this year's salary to shut up and go away. "And good luck finding another team to pay you 60 million now, asshole."
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edit: an agent already went over this scenario a couple of weeks ago. If I understand this correctly, and I probably don't, they have until Sunday to jettison him. They can cut him loose right now and it will cost them very little (aside from the 3 and 5 they gave to Pitt). If he's on the 53 man roster at the start of their game MNF then they're stuck with him for 2 years as the dead cap will become overwhelming.
I think this is correct (I probably don't understand it either). The question I see floating around now, is whether or not the Raiders can point to specific language in his deal that will force him to either not get guaranteed money or pay back the guarantee he's already received or something of that nature. Assuming they do cut him before the MNF game.
Conduct detrimental to the team and violating team policies would cover it. I don't think there's really a question that they could do it. The question will be how strong is their case when the inevitable lawsuit is filed. Refusing to attend practices, being insubordinate, and being a major distraction during camp will give them a case, but they'd wind up settling. Still, aside from principle (the dude doesn't deserve shit) settling would likely be an excellent deal for them. Presumably the settlement wouldn't count against the cap so they could pay him something kinda sorta close to this year's salary to shut up and go away. "And good luck finding another team to pay you 60 million now, asshole."
Yup, if it does all go down, it'll be interesting to see what kind of offers he gets after that.
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Word is from Schefter that he threatened to punch his GMayock. What an idiot.
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So it seems that this latest kerfuffle started because AB posted a fine letter to social media with a bizarrely worded message that was presumably intended to make the organization look bad. The letter included language suggested that he was pushing things to the point where they might bail on him and he upped the ante. Honestly, it's time to cut the cord with him. Things are not going to get better. If it's now or two years form now you really can't afford to wait, and most sources are saying that the raiders are in the clear as of right now.
Also, if somebody with this degree of literacy can get into college, much less graduate, there's a real problem in this country.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDoHdDZUUAAGHN3?format=jpg&name=small)
Ooh, he read card good!
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You know how Jake Tapper looks at the news he's about to read about "Trump" and you can literally see his head swelling? That's how I feel when I read this stuff.
Player A violates a very clear, unambiguous rule.
Player A is penalized for said violation.
Player A again violates a very clear, unambiguous rule.
Player A is again penalized for said violation.
And by some magic juju, Player A is the victim, seeking to inflict vengeance?
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I think the Raiders will cut the cord with Brown before the first game, that way they can avoid having to pay all of that guaranteed money. Brown is not the kind of guy to straighten up and fly straight after a suspension, and the Raiders know it.
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I think the Raiders will cut the cord with Brown before the first game, that way they can avoid having to pay all of that guaranteed money. Brown is not the kind of guy to straighten up and fly straight after a suspension, and the Raiders know it.
We're gonna find out how smart the Raiders are here.
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ANyone watch Hard Knocks? I didn't watch the whole thing, but by circumstance, I watched the last episode, and it was rather illuminating. Now I wish I watched more.
I'm a fan of Gruden, and always have been, but I can't say I left that episode with a good feeling, I just can't put my finger on why.
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Also, if somebody with this degree of literacy can get into college, much less graduate, there's a real problem in this country.
Well...Division 1 college football is nothing but a minor league operated by universities, so I think any player's literacy has little to do with whether he'll be allowed to play for these minor league teams. Also, Brown left CMU after his junior year, and I very much doubt he went back to finish his "studies."
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Few things are more painful to watch than inept offenses.
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Tonight's game blows.
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Good defense isn't always fun to watch, but I am enjoying this game. Feels like one big play could swing the game either way. Both offenses are obviously working to get going after barely playing in the preseason.
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I have no problem with good defense. Is this game really highlighting good defense?
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Folks in these parts knew the Packers offense was expected to struggle, but were cautiously optimistic about the defense.
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I have no problem with good defense. Is this game really highlighting good defense?
It is for the Bears.
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magic juju
Leave him out of this. He's a good kid!!! :biggrin:
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I’m assuming most people finally understand what a colossal asshole Antonio Brown is; the horrible cancer he was in Pittsburgh, constantly undermining the team’s effort to win with his narcissism, making Ben feel like he had to force him the ball constantly so he would shut the f up. Hope he never plays another down.
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Wow, that game last night was fucking awful.
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Vontaze Burfict was the one holding him back from pummeling his GM and OJ Simpson is telling him to calm down and relax. What more do you need to know about AB? :lol
Rosenhaus is apparently trying to drive a wedge between Gruden and Mayock in a last ditch effort to get his guaranteed money. In the meantime David Carr and the other team captains have all sided with management. Since AB doesn't seem like the let bygones be bygones type, you're also having to choose between AB and Carr now. Once again, how smart are the Raiders?
Honestly, this is more interesting than the game itself.
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Vontaze Burfict was the one holding him back from pummeling his GM and OJ Simpson is telling him to calm down and relax. What more do you need to know about AB? :lol
:lol
Imagine if he was cut? Who would want that S#$%show?
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Vontaze Burfict was the one holding him back from pummeling his GM and OJ Simpson is telling him to calm down and relax. What more do you need to know about AB? :lol
:lol
Imagine if he was cut? Who would want that S#$%show?
I can't imagine they won't suspend him. The article I read says that if he's suspended then they escape paying him all his guaranteed $$$.
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Yup. Well, he put himself in this position. Shows you how much the Steelers did to deal with this kid when we only heard the whispers out of Pittsburgh.
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No it wasn't. Packers won.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27552977/gruden-plan-brown-play-monday-night
I guess that tells us what we need to know about the Raiders. :lol
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OJ Simpson is telling him to calm down and relax.
No way! :lol
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27552977/gruden-plan-brown-play-monday-night
I guess that tells us what we need to know about the Raiders. :lol
I doubt anyone is surprised. The Raiders are getting duped by Brown and Rosenhaus, who are doing whatever they can to make sure he gets that guaranteed money. My guess is Mayock wants to cut the cord, but is getting overruled by Gruden who is desperate to win and knows that losing Brown would make that a lot more difficult in the short term.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27552977/gruden-plan-brown-play-monday-night
I guess that tells us what we need to know about the Raiders. :lol
That's not good. Neither is this:
"Right now I think his relationship with Coach Gruden is good, very good," Rosenhaus said Friday. "I'm not going to get into his relationship with Mike Mayock, but I will say that we're hopeful that that will be a good one, as well. It has been in the past; it can be in the future."
Far be it from me to tell Jon Gruden how to coach his team, but you can't have deal fever. Does Antonio Brown make a 5-11 team into a 11-5 team? I don't think so. I'm not even sure he makes a 7-9 team a 9-7 team.
So why compromise everything?
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27552977/gruden-plan-brown-play-monday-night
I guess that tells us what we need to know about the Raiders. :lol
If I were Carr I wouldn't throw one pass to him or towards his direction.
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27552977/gruden-plan-brown-play-monday-night
I guess that tells us what we need to know about the Raiders. :lol
Yep. Now we know.
I'm really amazed that they folded. Deciding to cut the guy would have been a really tough decision. Deciding to suspend him one game for time to re-evaluate was a no brainer. Not only do they wind up married to the guy, but they put up giant billboards announcing that he's above the team. Somebody needs to rework the Ditka/Ricky Williams wedding picture with AB as the groom and Gruden in a gimp suit, because he's definitely the bitch now. Ideal scenario is that he's gone in 6 weeks and the raiders lose 35 million, their quarterback, and their GM because of it.
Also, while being held back from pummeling Mayock he kept calling him a cracker. Imagine if the races were reversed there. Dude would never be allowed to play again.
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Or throw it too high/away from him so he can't catch anything. A state line of zero catches with a ton of targets looks a lot worse than zero targets.
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Barto, I was avoiding that topic on purpose, but it goes without saying that if a white player had called a black GM the equivalent of cracker (not sure what the black equivalent is) that the player would be done. Cracker is a small slur at worst, but still a slur nonetheless.
As for Carr, he is fighting for his starting QB life, so he can't afford to piss it away just to show up his diva WR.
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Also, while being held back from pummeling Mayock he kept calling him a cracker. Imagine if the races were reversed there. Dude would never be allowed to play again.
That would be National Media news for a week or two......As it stands, this little scenario is just news in the sports world.
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Also, while being held back from pummeling Mayock he kept calling him a cracker. Imagine if the races were reversed there. Dude would never be allowed to play again.
That would be National Media news for a week or two......As it stands, this little scenario is just news in the sports world.
Yeah, obviously if the races were reversed things would be much different here.
Overall though, I'm with Barto. I'm surprised they folded completely. I expected the Raiders to give him at least a game or two suspension. Rough look for the organization right now.
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I just realized there is no NFL Survivor thread(?) Don't we usually do that every year?
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I was looking for it yesterday. Bummed there isn't one.
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I just realized there is no NFL Survivor thread(?) Don't we usually do that every year?
That was always Doc's deal. Maybe he's no longer interested in dicking with it. I always enjoyed it, despite being pretty terrible at it.
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I could try and set it up if there is interest?
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I think I was out after Week 1 last year. I'd be up for it.
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Antonio just put out a YouTube hype video with private conversations between Chucky and himself.
The dude is bat shit crazy!
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The Raiders only have themselves to blame.
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Hey, we can get Antonio for a 3rd and a 5th? What a steal! :lol
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:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
(that's for both Brown and Gruden)
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(https://i.postimg.cc/FsJfPZrT/Screenshot-20190906-221947-Twitter.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BX4Qb21F)
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"Officer, I thought it was that Mayock jerk. Those crackers all look the same!"
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:lol
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Lots of talk about the legality of using a private conversation without consent.
This is better than General Hospital.
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Chris Mortensen has already tweeted that a Raiders source told him that Gruden thought this latest video was awesome.
The enabling continues! :lol :lol
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Damn. I hope the Raiders game is on the east coast. I love to see the Hindenburg blow up again.
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Damn. I hope the Raiders game is on the east coast. I love to see the Hindenburg blow up again.
You were there to see it the first time? Damn, you're older than I thought!!! :biggrin:
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:lol
Time traveler. Blob would be happy.
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Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
·
7m
By fining Antonio Brown $215,073.53 last night for conduct detrimental to the team on Sept. 4, the Raiders voided the $29.125 million worth of guaranteed money in his deal, per league sources.
This could help explain why Brown is now asking the Raiders for his release.
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Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
·
1m
In addition to fining Antonio Brown $215,073.53 for conduct detrimental to the team that voided $29.125 million worth of guaranteed money in his contract, the Raiders sent Brown a letter that he no longer will be entitled to termination pay if they release him, per sources.
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I said above I'm a fan of Gruden. I don't think this is a case of "well, he shouldn't have gone for it on fourth down"; that's just subjective gamesmanship. This is very different. And I'm really disappointed in Jon for not seeing the bigger picture here. If I'm another Raider, I'm like "WTF?".
I can count on maybe three fingers the times when a coach's blatant favoritism could be justified (LT, Brady, and I'm going to save the third for a future choice). In most cases, when a coach gets too enamored with a player it does not end well for the team, and this is that in spades.
EDIT: That Schefter bit is interesting; so they saved the money anyway? Could Gruden be crazy like a fox? I don't think so, but it's worth asking.
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Antonio Brown has been released. I hope nobody signs him. He’s a diva, a crybaby, and a cancer to the locker room.
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:rollin
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So basically, he got cut and made $0 with the Raiders. :lol :lol :lol
I'll bet Drew Rosenhaus is ready to drop this idiot ASAP.
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So basically, he got cut and made $0 with the Raiders. :lol :lol :lol
I'll bet Drew Rosenhaus is ready to drop this idiot ASAP.
First thing I thought.
Barring any grievances he now owes Oakland money for his brief tenure there. :lol
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In two consecutive seasons the Steelers have traded a problem WR to the Raiders for draft picks, and neither player is currently on the team. In return the Steelers used those picks to choose a potential long term replacement for Ben, a potential long term replacement for AB and a project TE that hopefully has a ton of upside in the future. The Raiders are either the dumbest MFer's on the planet, or the Steelers have the greatest con-men in the history of the league working in their front office...
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In two consecutive seasons the Steelers have traded a problem WR to the Raiders for draft picks, and neither player is currently on the team. In return the Steelers used those picks to choose a potential long term replacement for Ben, a potential long term replacement for AB and a project TE that hopefully has a ton of upside in the future. The Raiders are either the dumbest MFer's on the planet, or the Steelers have the greatest con-men in the history of the league working in their front office...
47 years after the Immaculate Reception, the Steelers still continue to find new ways to get one over on the Raiders.
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As a Bears fan and also a Steelers fan, I have to also thank the Raiders for Khalil Mack. Dude is a beast!
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As much as the internet is salivating at the idea I can't see AB in NE right now. He'll have to burn one more team, I think. Bill is obviously happy to sign troublemakers who have hit rock bottom and have no more options. AB isn't there yet. Danny or Jerry will offer him a on of money and he'll be able to go right on being the diva he is for the time being. Why would he go somewhere that won't tolerate his nonsense right now when he knows he doesn't have to? If he further flames out this year Bill will throw him a line next year and he'll go 100/1500/20 with TB.
Also, while threatening your GM while hurling racial epithets was probably enough, I can't help but think that demanding to be released on Instagram has to blow a massive hole in your grievance complaint. Not sure how you can really make the case they cheated you of money when you asked them to cut you loose.
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Welp, that didn’t take long...
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/antonio-brown-agrees-to-terms-with-patriots/ar-AAGXmnl?
:omg: :omg: :omg:
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I have no wifi for 6 hours and they sign this a-hole? Great. Shape up or GTFO.
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I said this to my wife that the Patriots would sign him by the end of the day. Boom.
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I have no wifi for 6 hours and they sign this a-hole? Great. Shape up or GTFO.
He will lead the league in TDs now.
I’m not convinced this isnt Belichek wanting to prove once again how good a coach he is. Almost a way to show up Gruden
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I’m not convinced this isnt Belichek wanting to prove once again how good a coach he is. Almost a way to show up Gruden
There is no way a man with 6 SB rings (5 more than the coach wants to "show up" can be that insecure (I hope?)
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Right. It's a coach that knows talent, value for 1 year and won't put up with shit.
I'm still not happy.
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As much as the internet is salivating at the idea I can't see AB in NE right now. He'll have to burn one more team, I think. Bill is obviously happy to sign troublemakers who have hit rock bottom and have no more options. AB isn't there yet. Danny or Jerry will offer him a on of money and he'll be able to go right on being the diva he is for the time being. Why would he go somewhere that won't tolerate his nonsense right now when he knows he doesn't have to? If he further flames out this year Bill will throw him a line next year and he'll go 100/1500/20 with TB.
Yep. Shows what I know.
On the bright side, imagine if it actually works out. :lol
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Brady and Belichick are probably the only QB/Coach in the league to command enough respect to keep Brown in line. But he's going to have to get in line and quick. He had better be prepared for Belichick's program.
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I'll be curious to see if the league does anything. They suspend guys for anything, but are they are going to let a player who threatened his boss with physical violence and threw a racial slur at him, get away with it? The world is watching.
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I believe Goodell just licked his finger and stuck it in the air.
He'll get back to you in a few days.
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Don't get me wrong, I don't expect him to do anything, and it shows what a joke the NFL is. Guys get hammered with suspensions for smoking a little pot, but a guy who threatens one of his bosses and illegally records a phone call with another, gets rewarded and the league will do nothing. If nothing else, this whole thing should show the dopes still crying about Kaepernick that NFL teams will put up with anything as long as you are good enough on the field.
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He should've been suspended for calling Maylock a cracker.
The signing is sickening. If he gets in line and plays well, Pat's fans will reap the rewards, but this fan will be holding his nose the entire time.
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The NFL is probably with the current program enough to believe only white people can be racist.
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The NFL is probably with the current program enough to believe only white people can be racist.
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He should've been suspended for calling Maylock a cracker.
The signing is sickening. If he gets in line and plays well, Pat's fans will reap the rewards, but this fan will be holding his nose the entire time.
Agree.
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This whole thing with Antonio Brown reminds me of that one episode of Seinfeld where George is trying to do all he can to get fired from the Yankees so that he can get a better position with the Mets. If only Antonio Brown's attempts to ditch the Raiders were as funny.
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This whole thing with Antonio Brown reminds me of that one episode of Seinfeld where George is trying to do all he can to get fired from the Yankees so that he can get a position with the Mets. If only Antonio Brown's attempts to ditch the Raiders were as funny.
I'm laughing doubly. It feels so true.
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Ok, in all fairness, I found his reaction, when he got released, funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-gwWVYmW7Y
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If there is no longer an NFL in 20 years, it won't be because of CTE, players kneeling, or missed PI calls. It will because enough fans are fed up with assholes like this. Athletes like him are almost enough for me to give up on sports altogether. I'll still participate in the Pick 'Em and run the Survivor because I like the sport, but how people continue to be passionate about any industry comprised of filth like this is beyond me.
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If there is no longer an NFL in 20 years, it won't be because of CTE, players kneeling, or missed PI calls. It will because enough fans are fed up with assholes like this. Athletes like him are almost enough for me to give up on sports altogether. I'll still participate in the Pick 'Em and run the Survivor because I like the sport, but how people continue to be passionate about any industry comprised of filth like this is beyond me.
Agreed. This is a really bad look for the NFL, the way this all went down. They should thank their lucky stars for fantasy football and gambling. Remove either or both from the equation and the popularity of the NFL would plummet.
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Yup, the NFL continues to morph into WWE. Funny ESPN mentioned likely tampering but neglected to mention its illegal. :lol
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Yep.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/this-is-why-everyone-hates-you-new-england-000844442.html
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The signing is sickening. If he gets in line and plays well, Pat's fans will reap the rewards, but this fan will be holding his nose the entire time.
I guess I just recognize that the NFL is full of scumbgs and assholes. Every team's got some and why should NE be any different? I don't have to like somebody to admire the work that they do. The NFL is not where I look for role models and heroes. If he works out, great. If he doesn't Bill will send him on his way, presumably less an amount of money that they were willing to part with.
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Just realized that New England plays Pittsburgh tonight. I fully expect Brown to have a monster game against his former team.
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Just realized that New England plays Pittsburgh tonight. I fully expect Brown to have a monster game against his former team.
Will be very hard for him to do that from the bench, but maybe BB can come up with a way.
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I don't think he's even allowed to be with the team. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in Kraft's suite as a guest, though.
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I guess I just recognize that the NFL is full of scumbgs and assholes. Every team's got some and why should NE be any different? I don't have to like somebody to admire the work that they do. The NFL is not where I look for role models and heroes.
This is where my struggle is. I think there was a thread in the Music subforum about listening to artists that you don't like personally. For some reason my musical tastes are independent of if I find an artist to be a douchenozzle. I can listen to music and put aside the rest. Though it makes the music more enjoyable when I find the artist endearing. When I want to follow sports, I have a hard time compartmentalizing. When I think about sports, I want to check out stat lines, roster moves, forecast playoff chances... but I can't because when I go to espn.com I am inundated with stories about contract disputes, Instagram posts trashing a team's front office, complains about what headgear is allowed....
On a separate note... can we stop already with the cute and funny player introductions? Either get rid of them altogether, ensure everyone say their name and school/hometown at risk of suspension, or go full XFL and let everyone say whatever the hell they want.
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I believe Goodell just licked his finger and stuck it in the air.
He'll get back to you in a few days.
HAHAHA, this is spot on. :)
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My Jets still finding new ways to lose. It’s so goddamn frustrating rooting for them.
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The NFL is probably with the current program enough to believe only white people can be racist.
I wonder if they consulted with Jay-Z on that?
I'm not really happy with this signing either, as I'm not usually a fan of rewarding bad behavior. I don't think it's a "Belichick v. Gruden" thing, but Belichick IS close friends with Mayock, so that has to factor in to this as well. I can't believe Bill is sticking it to his friend, but it sure seems like he is. I'm more in the camp of "this is intended to send a message to his team", or "send a message to the Stillers", though given that he cannot play tonight, I can't imagine what those messages could be.
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The signing is sickening. If he gets in line and plays well, Pat's fans will reap the rewards, but this fan will be holding his nose the entire time.
I guess I just recognize that the NFL is full of scumbgs and assholes. Every team's got some and why should NE be any different? I don't have to like somebody to admire the work that they do. The NFL is not where I look for role models and heroes. If he works out, great. If he doesn't Bill will send him on his way, presumably less an amount of money that they were willing to part with.
Right. I mean I rooted for the Red Sox even though Ortiz is a fuckbrain.
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In other news, the Cleveland Browns are still the Cleveland Browns. :lol :lol
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I'm not really happy with this signing either, as I'm not usually a fan of rewarding bad behavior. I don't think it's a "Belichick v. Gruden" thing, but Belichick IS close friends with Mayock, so that has to factor in to this as well. I can't believe Bill is sticking it to his friend, but it sure seems like he is. I'm more in the camp of "this is intended to send a message to his team", or "send a message to the Stillers", though given that he cannot play tonight, I can't imagine what those messages could be.
Seems to me this is kind of like a trip to Vegas for Bill. You figure out how much money you can flush down the toilet and then take it to gamble with. Bill figures he's got 9 million on the cap he's prepared to wager. And of course if it pays off the result is pretty much terrifying. As long as he's prepared to cut him before he becomes a problem then there's really not much downside.
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If AB is smart, this is a way to repair his image to get that "big" contract again and he gets to pick where he wants to go.
But this is AB.
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I'm not really happy with this signing either, as I'm not usually a fan of rewarding bad behavior. I don't think it's a "Belichick v. Gruden" thing, but Belichick IS close friends with Mayock, so that has to factor in to this as well. I can't believe Bill is sticking it to his friend, but it sure seems like he is. I'm more in the camp of "this is intended to send a message to his team", or "send a message to the Stillers", though given that he cannot play tonight, I can't imagine what those messages could be.
Seems to me this is kind of like a trip to Vegas for Bill. You figure out how much money you can flush down the toilet and then take it to gamble with. Bill figures he's got 9 million on the cap he's prepared to wager. And of course if it pays off the result is pretty much terrifying. As long as he's prepared to cut him before he becomes a problem then there's really not much downside.
I don't think you're wrong at all. I think I'm letting my emotions get the best of me; I don't like players like Antonio Brown. I know Bill has done "reconstruction" before, but was Corey Dillon and Randy Moss as toxic and obnoxious as Brown? I don't know. I just hate rewarding assholes like that.
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Wow, I so don't have a clue about this game where I keep reading this whole thing as "Why does everyone keeps thinking Bill Belichick makes all the GM decisions for the Patriots as the head coach?" Then I just goggled "Patriots GM" and found that yep, Belichick is the de facto GM. Mind blown.
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Walker, the Tennessee TE, said it all: "Crown 'em if you want to, but you still have to play football."
I picked them, and was wrong, but watching the highlights, it doesn't look good for Cleveland. Bad penalties - BAD penalties - and Bakey Mayfield having to be a gunslinger, that's not a recipe for Cleveland success.
Nick Foles, out. Feel bad about that.
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I'm not surprised Cleveland played that bad. The real surprise is that Tennessee played that good.
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Ties need to be eliminated from the NFL. It’s the only one of the big four leagues that still allows them, and it’s so deflating to get invested in a game only for it to end in a draw.
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Al Michaels on Antonio Brown arriving at the airport: "Good thing he didn't have to go through baggage claim, because he's got a lot of baggage to claim." :lol
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Al Michaels on Antonio Brown arriving at the airport: "Good thing he didn't have to go through baggage claim, because he's got a lot of baggage to claim." :lol
:rollin
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Seahawks and Bengals was a good game. Seahawks won it 21-20. Both teams played well though, specially the defense on both teams.
Dallas Cowboys were on fire today against the Giants. 35-17
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Wow, they're letting them play tonight. I don't think these are bad calls (just the opposite; I like it) but it's unusual at least over the past couple years.
Gotta say, though, as a Patriots fan, already tired of the talk about Antonio Brown. I know he has numbers, but I think the Pats have done just fine until now. This isn't like the Browns hoping OBJ is going to vault them from Division II college level to playing with the big boys.
EDIT: Gordon is a beast; I've seen him make two nice catches while taking a shot like it was nothing.
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AB is a whiny lil bitch who went to the only team who DIDN'T need him. Raiders are free of his drama and high price tag. Good riddance.
Rams and Hawks with the close wins! Hopefully Raiders can make me 3-3.
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Ties need to be eliminated from the NFL. It’s the only one of the big four leagues that still allows them, and it’s so deflating to get invested in a game only for it to end in a draw.
I can understand your wanting closure from a game but I like ties a lot. A big part is the rarity since there have never been more than two in a season since the introduction of overtime in 1974. I enjoy the suspense of seeing the clock wind down with basically two teams ganging up against my desired outcome (as long as I'm neutral in that game, anyway. If I dislike one of the teams, fuck 'em.) I got into the NFL in 1988 and not long after that the NFL had its biggest tie drought ever, 1990-1996, so it really became this holy grail kinda thing for me.
Beyond that, ties ironically work awesomely as a tiebreaker if a team with a tie in their record is in the playoff hunt late in the season since the only way their record can tie anyone else's with whom they're jockeying for a playoff spot would be if that team had a tie as well and those odds get further diluted by the possibility that the tie could've occurred with a team from the other conference.
So basically what I'm saying is that I think it's a lot worse to have a tied record between two teams at season's end be broken by NFL tiebreaking procedure than it is to have one game out of a team's 16 end in a tie and ultimately lead to that team having a clear-cut better or worse record than a team with no ties.
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Ties need to be eliminated from the NFL. It’s the only one of the big four leagues that still allows them, and it’s so deflating to get invested in a game only for it to end in a draw.
But what's the alternative? You can't realistically do what the MLB and NBA do in the NFL regular season. The NHL uses shootouts, so do you want field goal kicking contests at the end of OT? Have the kickers attempt uncontested field goals starting from 40 yards and move them back after each kick until someone misses?
I actually thought the OT in the Lions v. Cards game was pretty compelling (but I won't go as far as "black_biff" did).
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Christ, how many players broke collarbones yesterday? I see at least three.
Also looks like the Steelers got decimated in garbage time last night. Only got to see the first quarter, but from what I gather the game was over long before they lost Watt and JJS-S.
Ties are stupid and unnecessary. BF makes an interesting point about simplifying the tie-breaks, but in the NFL tie-breaking is already so stupidly convoluted it doesn't actually help much that I've seen. Particularly when there's more than one tie in a conference.
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Ties need to be eliminated from the NFL. It’s the only one of the big four leagues that still allows them, and it’s so deflating to get invested in a game only for it to end in a draw.
But what's the alternative? You can't realistically do what the MLB and NBA do in the NFL regular season. The NHL uses shootouts, so do you want field goal kicking contests at the end of OT? Have the kickers attempt uncontested field goals starting from 40 yards and move them back after each kick until someone misses?
I actually thought the OT in the Lions v. Cards game was pretty compelling (but I won't go as far as "black_biff" did).
If you're to go the shootout route then you do it with 2-pt conversions. Or anyplace between 5-15 yds, I suppose. You shoot it out based on red-zone offense. But only after a normal OT period.
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I rarely support Mike Tomlin, but here, I think it's not unfair to say he was between a rock and a hard place. The Steelers did not look sharp. At the end of the first half, they had I think first and goal at the six, and settled on a field goal. Al Michaels was critical of that, being down I think it was 20-0 at that point, but I thought it was smart. It remained a three-possession game, true, but if they went for it and didn't get it - a decent likelihood - that might have broken them.
Increasingly, we're seeing pre-season games as "tryouts" and starters and vets are not playing. That makes the first game or so of the regular season to be "de facto" preseason for those vets. I watched through the third quarter, and while it was over at that point I think you need to get these guys reps at some point, and what's better than reps against the Pats?
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Anyone see this play? https://sports.yahoo.com/49-ers-kwon-alexander-ejected-after-head-shot-to-former-teammate-jameis-winston-212635794.html
Curious what people think. I've watched it a few times, both at regular speed and in slow-mo. I'm fine with the call. But to me, it's a play that highlights the difficulty with that kind of call in the NFL. If the QB keeps running on the path he is on, the LB probably makes a perfectly fine, fairly low tackle with his shoulder, and all ends well. But as the LB is already going low, the QB starts to go into an indecisive slide at the last moment, so the LB goes even lower and reflexively lowers his head, which then causes helmet-to-helmet contact. And not only that--it causes helmet-to-helmet contact with the crown of the LB's helmet, which is a penalty every time and an ejection most of the time, despite that it's pretty tough to avoid in the microsecond that it would take to realize how to avoid it. That's my take anyway. But it's interesting to me to read some of the comments, both by fans AND even reporters, on both sides. Some screaming that it was blatant and "the bum should be out of the NFL for such a hit." Others screaming about how it's "SO unfair" to the defense and how the NFL is devolved into "pansy ball" where you can't even play defense anymore. I think that for a lot of these hits, this one included, it's neither one of those, and it's just the call that has to happen in this situation. I know it's not what a lot of people want to hear, but I think it's just "one of those things" that we'll always see because the NFL (rightly) wants to prevent a certain type of injury that, due to the nature of the game, probably can never be completely eliminated.
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To my eyes that's all on Winston.....and, it was a perfectly fine hit. It's literally impossible on a play like that for the LB to decipher what/how/where the QB is going to slide....at the same time doing his job of laying a hit on a QB who's decided to run out of the pocket.
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Anyone see this play? https://sports.yahoo.com/49-ers-kwon-alexander-ejected-after-head-shot-to-former-teammate-jameis-winston-212635794.html
Curious what people think. I've watched it a few times, both at regular speed and in slow-mo. I'm fine with the call. But to me, it's a play that highlights the difficulty with that kind of call in the NFL. If the QB keeps running on the path he is on, the LB probably makes a perfectly fine, fairly low tackle with his shoulder, and all ends well. But as the LB is already going low, the QB starts to go into an indecisive slide at the last moment, so the LB goes even lower and reflexively lowers his head, which then causes helmet-to-helmet contact. And not only that--it causes helmet-to-helmet contact with the crown of the LB's helmet, which is a penalty every time and an ejection most of the time, despite that it's pretty tough to avoid in the microsecond that it would take to realize how to avoid it. That's my take anyway. But it's interesting to me to read some of the comments, both by fans AND even reporters, on both sides. Some screaming that it was blatant and "the bum should be out of the NFL for such a hit." Others screaming about how it's "SO unfair" to the defense and how the NFL is devolved into "pansy ball" where you can't even play defense anymore. I think that for a lot of these hits, this one included, it's neither one of those, and it's just the call that has to happen in this situation. I know it's not what a lot of people want to hear, but I think it's just "one of those things" that we'll always see because the NFL (rightly) wants to prevent a certain type of injury that, due to the nature of the game, probably can never be completely eliminated.
In this case it looked kind of deliberate, but I do see your point. Wes Welker created a similar phenomenon, as his stature and running style made it pert near impossible to tackle him without hitting him in the noggin. What are you gonna do? :huh:
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To my eyes that's all on Winston.....and, it was a perfectly fine hit. It's literally impossible on a play like that for the LB to decipher what/how/where the QB is going to slide....at the same time doing his job of laying a hit on a QB who's decided to run out of the pocket.
If Winston slid with his feet first, baseball style, he wouldn't have been hit in the head. He just half-assedly went to the ground.
That being said, the defender absolutely led with his head, which is just a big no-no. Had Winston slid different, the head-to-head contact may not have happened and there's no flag on the play.
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But I'm not sure what "led with his head" really means on a play like that. If Winston stays upright, it's likely a tackle with the defender's shoulder pad on Winston's thigh. The defender's head is only in the lead because, anatomically, that's where your head is on your body. And it looks like he ducks his head only reflexively at the last moment because of Winston going down. Again, I'm not saying it was the "wrong" call. I'm just saying that I think it is incredibly difficult to officiate in a lot of situations, and to me, this is one of them. Part of me wants to say "on this play, I don't see any blatant intent to 'lead with the helmet,' and I'm not sure 'leading with the helmet' is easy to define in this situation, so I think the 15 yard mandatory penalty is fine, but I'm not going to eject the player." On the other hand, it is impossible in man situations to judge intent, and the rule is designed to discourage that type of contact whatsoever, even if it may be almost unavoidable in some cases, so you always eject no matter what. I don't think either interpretation is necessarily THE "correct" one.
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I don't like this for other reasons. What behavior are you trying to drive? From that clip, we learned that Jameis Winston - who I'm not a fan of even a little bit - doesn't have to commit when running the football. He can't have it both ways; if he's going to slide, and avoid the hit, then slide and avoid the hit. If Alexander hits him then, penalize him into next week for all I care. But if he's going to go in hard, he ought to be subject to whatever that entails. I see what El Barto saw, that is, it didn't look like Alexander was indecisive on that but even if he was, he doesn't have that many options at that point. And does anyone doubt that were he not touched that Winston would have advanced the ball?
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Can we outlaw the "Feed me" hand motion after every run of more than ten yards? Carlos Hyde of the Texans does it every time (though it was funny; he ran for about 15, did the motion, then the very next play the middle linebacker for the Saints stuffed him at the line and leaned over and did the motion to him).
On a related note, DeShaun Watson is a good player, and he's having a good (not great) game, but to listen to these announcers, he's thrown for 9 touchdowns, won six Super Bowls, won the Pole Position for next week's NASCAR race, and is playing guitar in Mike Portnoy's next "super group". I get that this isn't the "A" team (Tessitore and McFarland), but a little perspective would be nice (and in contrast to an equally fantastic game by Brees). EDIT: I suppose he deserves credit - that was a hell of a throw while taking a shot to the ribs - but still.
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I don't have any issue with that hit. What's the guy supposed to do, turn around and hit him with his ass? If two guys are diving to the same spot, so be it. You can't retract your head like a damn turtle everything you lunge at someone to make a stop.
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Epic last minute of the Saints/Texans game, and while I'd have been happy to see the most overrated coach in the league lose there, I never root against the kicker in that situation.
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Can we outlaw the "Feed me" hand motion after every run of more than ten yards?
Had to Google that. I'd just as soon outlaw all stupid shit players do after any play short of throwing the game-winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. And save the orchestrated group celebrations in the end zone for soccer.
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Raiders looked damn good tonight. Offense was clickin, defense was right there on Denver for the most part.
Fans in the stands chanted "F*** AB" for a lot of the game haha
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Epic last minute of the Saints/Texans game, and while I'd have been happy to see the most overrated coach in the league lose there, I never root against the kicker in that situation.
The way that Payton's balls can go from being huge (calling a 40-yard pass play on 3rd and 2 to try to ice the game) to shrinking to the point that they're invisible to the naked eye (calling predictable runs every play thereafter) is fucking infuriating. He might be one of the worst coaches in the league when it comes to knowing how to milk the last 3-4 minutes of a game when nursing a one-possession lead.
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Although Brees played that last half a quarter to perfection, I know I had this thought at the end of the first half, and have had it before. I don't know if it's discipline, or coaching, or pressure, or what, but Payton and Reid are both horrible at working the clock to their advantage.
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The thread title should be changed to v. The Browns orchestrate another loss. :lol
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The thread title should be changed to v. The Browns orchestrate another loss. :lol
Or … " Watch " OBJ begin his journey to NE.
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The thread title should be changed to v. The Browns orchestrate another loss. :lol
Or … " Watch " OBJ begin his journey to NE.
:lol
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The thread title should be changed to v. The Browns orchestrate another loss. :lol
Or … " Watch " OBJ begin his journey to NE.
Well the Pats did just traded Demaryius Thomas to the Jets so....... lol
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/lawsuit-accuses-antonio-brown-of-rape/ar-AAH6jNp?li=BBnbfcL
Oh boy! :facepalm:
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“He will pursue all legal remedies to not only clear his name but to also protect other professional athletes against false accusations.”
Because if we've learned anything about AB, he will certainly go out of his way for other people, instead of being focused solely on himself.
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"Hey, we don't have an AB story today. Oh, thank you! Now we can talk about him for weeks!"
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Wonder if this came out over the weekend would the Pats have signed him still?
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That's the weird thing about this; the timing can't be coincidental, but then again, a claim like that doesn't get put together in 45 minutes, so it had to have been in the works now for weeks at least. I have zero compassion for AB, and his behavior suggests that his respect for boundaries is... shall we say, lacking, but let's not fail to recognize the last 72 hours or so (before the filing) were a public relations bonanza for that plaintiff.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/lawsuit-accuses-antonio-brown-of-rape/ar-AAH6jNp?li=BBnbfcL
Oh boy! :facepalm:
3 days into being a Pat. :lol
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That's the weird thing about this; the timing can't be coincidental, but then again, a claim like that doesn't get put together in 45 minutes, so it had to have been in the works now for weeks at least. I have zero compassion for AB, and his behavior suggests that his respect for boundaries is... shall we say, lacking, but let's not fail to recognize the last 72 hours or so (before the filing) were a public relations bonanza for that plaintiff.
The first thing I thought was "She has to be a Colts fan," but of course you're correct. This has to have been in the works for a while.
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Did you read that article? It's both disturbing and bizarre on several levels.
I don't know what to make of this at the outset: "Trigger Warning: This article contains information and details about sexual assault and/or violence, which may be upsetting to survivors." Part of me is compassionate, and understands the benefit of that, but part of me wonders where this ends? Isn't part of coping learning to incorporate that into your life in a healthy way, so that these triggers are of less impact?
And this is the sort of thing that is oddly specific and makes me think there is fire with the smoke: "Later that month, the lawsuit says, while they were streaming religious programming on a tablet at his South Florida home, Brown started masturbating behind Taylor and ejaculated on her back. The lawsuit contains images of profane messages that Taylor says Brown sent to her about the incident." The first and third instances are sort of the same "he said/she said" events that make this so complicated (and he seems to acknowledge some sexual contact, calling it "consensual") but that middle event has elements that are eminently provable. Now, whether the proof shows the crime or not I cannot tell, but there ought to be a timeline there and a set of electronic records that prove the context of the assault in a way that many of these accusations cannot.
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Did you read that article? It's both disturbing and bizarre on several levels.
I don't know what to make of this at the outset: "Trigger Warning: This article contains information and details about sexual assault and/or violence, which may be upsetting to survivors." Part of me is compassionate, and understands the benefit of that, but part of me wonders where this ends? Isn't part of coping learning to incorporate that into your life in a healthy way, so that these triggers are of less impact?
Well, that's probably true but it doesn't negate the benefit of a quick heads up. I'm not a fan of them, myself. I hear them all the time on NPR and some of them seem pretty silly to me, but honestly, why should I care?
And this is the sort of thing that is oddly specific and makes me think there is fire with the smoke: "Later that month, the lawsuit says, while they were streaming religious programming on a tablet at his South Florida home, Brown started masturbating behind Taylor and ejaculated on her back. The lawsuit contains images of profane messages that Taylor says Brown sent to her about the incident." The first and third instances are sort of the same "he said/she said" events that make this so complicated (and he seems to acknowledge some sexual contact, calling it "consensual") but that middle event has elements that are eminently provable. Now, whether the proof shows the crime or not I cannot tell, but there ought to be a timeline there and a set of electronic records that prove the context of the assault in a way that many of these accusations cannot.
Well, the first part of her allegation was "he tried to kiss me," and that always bugs me. That probably makes us all attempted rapists. I had the same thought bout the surprise pearl necklace as you, should be easy enough to prove or disprove. And in the end I take my customary stance of let Johnny look into it and see what the evidence portrays.
However, any speculation we make here is a waste of time. She said he did it and he's a douchbag. He's guilty and that's that. End of story.
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Did you read that article? It's both disturbing and bizarre on several levels.
I don't know what to make of this at the outset: "Trigger Warning: This article contains information and details about sexual assault and/or violence, which may be upsetting to survivors." Part of me is compassionate, and understands the benefit of that, but part of me wonders where this ends? Isn't part of coping learning to incorporate that into your life in a healthy way, so that these triggers are of less impact?
Well, that's probably true but it doesn't negate the benefit of a quick heads up. I'm not a fan of them, myself. I hear them all the time on NPR and some of them seem pretty silly to me, but honestly, why should I care?
We're in the same place; I'm not losing even a second of sleep over this. I'm just fascinated by the mindset that goes into something like this.
And this is the sort of thing that is oddly specific and makes me think there is fire with the smoke: "Later that month, the lawsuit says, while they were streaming religious programming on a tablet at his South Florida home, Brown started masturbating behind Taylor and ejaculated on her back. The lawsuit contains images of profane messages that Taylor says Brown sent to her about the incident." The first and third instances are sort of the same "he said/she said" events that make this so complicated (and he seems to acknowledge some sexual contact, calling it "consensual") but that middle event has elements that are eminently provable. Now, whether the proof shows the crime or not I cannot tell, but there ought to be a timeline there and a set of electronic records that prove the context of the assault in a way that many of these accusations cannot.
Well, the first part of her allegation was "he tried to kiss me," and that always bugs me. That probably makes us all attempted rapists. I had the same thought bout the surprise pearl necklace as you, should be easy enough to prove or disprove. And in the end I take my customary stance of let Johnny look into it and see what the evidence portrays.
However, any speculation we make here is a waste of time. She said he did it and he's a douchbag. He's guilty and that's that. End of story.
Unfortunately you're right here, too. This one I do lose sleep over, though.
I might have written about this before, but I got some news recently. I have a friend; I wouldn't say "bosom buddies", but I would say close. His daughter and my daughter played together, and my daughter would sometimes go to the day care he ran if we needed coverage. He has been in my house many times, I've been in his, and he has had my child in his direct, unsupervised care more than once. About two years ago, he was arrested for the rape (I think the actual charge was "unlawful sexual intercourse") with two five-year children. His business - a daycare - was summarily shut down. His marriage - being repaired after a little mutual trouble - tested beyond endurance. He maintained his innocence, and even passed a polygraph. But his name and likeness was all over the news, on line, on television... if you think the comment section is reserved for celebrities, you are sadly mistaken. People had no qualms calling for his castration, torture, and death.
Quietly, with little fanfare, the charges were dropped earlier this year, almost 20 months after the arrest. Business is still closed, he's still known as "that guy", even though the supposed "DNA evidence" was inconclusive, and it turns out the woman who accused him - the mom of the two children - did so out of vindictiveness because he wouldn't give her a refund of services because one child scraped the arm of her precious daughter. His life is basically ruined; he's I think 54, and a British immigrant; what is he going to do now? He doesn't have Brown's money to resurrect himself.
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Seems that Goodell is considering putting AB on the commissioner's exempt list. I'd have a real problem with this. The allegations are serious and if there is anything to them then by all means suspend the guy. Hell, ban him. All we have now is a civil allegation, though. You can't deprive a guy his livelihood over that. And lest anybody think that this is just me being a Patriot's fan, I still thing the league should suspend him for calling his GM a cracker while trying to pummel him and the Patriots would now own that.
Speaking of owning things, Rosenhaus has confirmed that they both knew this lawsuit was coming. Seems like that might give NE an escape clause if he winds up unable to play. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something in the CBA that forbids players from concealing things like this from prospective employers.
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I can't believe that a coach who complains about the dome open and it affects to the game with that much detail didnt do his homework on a possible free agent.
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Hey legal types... any reason this was filed in civil court and not criminal?
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Hey legal types... any reason this was filed in civil court and not criminal?
Perhaps the burden of proof is a lower bar to hit in civil vs. criminal? Just a guess.
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Well that is definitely true (I recall it's "Preponderance of evidence" and not "Beyond a reasonable doubt.") Just wondering if there was specific reasoning in this case. I figure if someone rapes you, you'd want to the full weight of a criminal court to come down on them, while civil court is where you go when the criminal court doesn't find in your favor (see: Goldmans vs OJ).
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Money vs. Justice.
Isn't it that simple?
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Money vs. Justice.
Isn't it that simple?
Not sure those are mutually exclusive. A victim might feel that getting the offenders money is the best form of justice. Who are we to say what is best justice for the victim?
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Well that is definitely true (I recall it's "Preponderance of evidence" and not "Beyond a reasonable doubt.") Just wondering if there was specific reasoning in this case. I figure if someone rapes you, you'd want to the full weight of a criminal court to come down on them, while civil court is where you go when the criminal court doesn't find in your favor (see: Goldmans vs OJ).
That's not really how I'd put it. Typically I suspect you'd want to do both. Ron Goldman would have preferred to have OJ tossed in prison and get all of his money, and would have sued in civil court even if he'd been convicted. Most likely explanation here is that she didn't figure the cops would prosecute him, and now that a few years have passed there's even less chance.
Money vs. Justice.
Isn't it that simple?
Not for me. I'm pretty cynical but I'm also fair, or at least I try to be. I'm certainly of the mindset to be skeptical of her claims pending their day in court, but I'll not just assume her motives are less than genuine.
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Well that is definitely true (I recall it's "Preponderance of evidence" and not "Beyond a reasonable doubt.") Just wondering if there was specific reasoning in this case. I figure if someone rapes you, you'd want to the full weight of a criminal court to come down on them, while civil court is where you go when the criminal court doesn't find in your favor (see: Goldmans vs OJ).
That's not really how I'd put it. Typically I suspect you'd want to do both. Ron Goldman would have preferred to have OJ tossed in prison and get all of his money, and would have sued in civil court even if he'd been convicted.
Valid points, I was just trying to point out how a criminal court court find him not-guilty while a civic court could find him guilty.
And yes a criminal filing would come from the state, the civil filing from the individual.
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I get that El Barto and Cool Chris. Both sides are so unreliable that I go to that. The timing of it, the storyline coming out. Both are deplorable to me.
I could go on but you both get my point why both are unreliable.
Let me add, I've said they before. I didnt want this fuckwad on my team.
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I didnt want this fuckwad on my team.
I understand how you feel....but I would hesitate turning your back on him.
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He deserves due process and to defend himself.
His pass history leads to most not giving himself the benefit of doubt. How you handle yourself is how you are looked at in real life situations.
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He deserves due process and to defend himself.
His pass history leads to most not giving himself the benefit of doubt. How you handle yourself is how you are looked at in real life situations.
His pass history is pretty unremarkable. 3 of 6, 50 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 68.1 rating. I wouldn't judge his credibility on that.
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:lol
Off the field my friend. Dont get me wrong, I hope this is bullshit and he helps us to #7.
Just his antics this last year grates most.
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I didnt want this fuckwad on my team.
I understand how you feel....but I would hesitate turning your back on him.
King, I am thinking Eric was making a joke here that you didn't catch on to.
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I didnt want this fuckwad on my team.
I understand how you feel....but I would hesitate turning your back on him.
King, I am thinking Eric was making a joke here that you didn't catch on to.
;)
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/lawsuit-accuses-antonio-brown-of-rape/ar-AAH6jNp?li=BBnbfcL
Oh boy! :facepalm:
3 days into being a Pat. :lol
Thankfully he's their problem now! It's hard enough for the Raiders to win without THAT distraction.
BTW, Marshawn Lynch is bringing an arena football team to Oakland to play at the old Oracle Arena.
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Blonde moment. lol
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BTW, Marshawn Lynch is bringing an arena football team to Oakland to play at the old Oracle Arena.
I hope this helps them build some momentum. For a league that has weathered as many storms as they have without permanently going under, you'd think that at some point they'd be able to make some good business moves and establish some real stability. I fucking love arena football.
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Money vs. Justice.
Isn't it that simple?
Not for me. I'm pretty cynical but I'm also fair, or at least I try to be. I'm certainly of the mindset to be skeptical of her claims pending their day in court, but I'll not just assume her motives are less than genuine.
Granted, the line of work I am in and the side I am on lends itself to me often being skeptical when it comes to one's motives for filing a civil lawsuit. But that said, filing a civil suit "for the money" isn't necessarily an improper motive. If she feels she was wronged, and that it cost her something, I see nothing wrong whatsoever with filing a civil suit to get compensated for that wrong. I think that's every bit as valid a component of justice as locking him up if he did it.
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Personally, I'd want both.
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Money vs. Justice.
Isn't it that simple?
Not for me. I'm pretty cynical but I'm also fair, or at least I try to be. I'm certainly of the mindset to be skeptical of her claims pending their day in court, but I'll not just assume her motives are less than genuine.
Granted, the line of work I am in and the side I am on lends itself to me often being skeptical when it comes to one's motives for filing a civil lawsuit. But that said, filing a civil suit "for the money" isn't necessarily an improper motive. If she feels she was wronged, and that it cost her something, I see nothing wrong whatsoever with filing a civil suit to get compensated for that wrong. I think that's every bit as valid a component of justice as locking him up if he did it.
Oh, absolutely. I was just working from the inference that looking for a payday reflected negatively on her credibility or her character. People are almost always less supportive of the "money grubbing whore."
And out of curiosity, do you ever work for the "other side," or do you always work for the bad guys? :lol
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/lawsuit-accuses-antonio-brown-of-rape/ar-AAH6jNp?li=BBnbfcL
Oh boy! :facepalm:
3 days into being a Pat. :lol
Thankfully he's their problem now! It's hard enough for the Raiders to win without THAT distraction.
BTW, Marshawn Lynch is bringing an arena football team to Oakland to play at the old Oracle Arena.
It's a conspiracy to keep the Pats from going to the SB again. Fine by me!! :lol
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And out of curiosity, do you ever work for the "other side," or do you always work for the bad guys? :lol
I never work for the bad guys.
...from a certain point of view.
:obiwan:
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Hey legal types... any reason this was filed in civil court and not criminal?
Because it's a civil lawsuit. Criminal actions are initiated by the district attorney/state's attorney on behalf of the state or the people of the state for violation of criminal law. The alleged victim is not the initiator of a criminal action and isn't even a party to it. Civil lawsuits are initiated by private individuals/entities for some sort of civil wrong. While both a criminal prosecution and a civil lawsuit may arise out of the same incident, they are very different things that are filed for very different reasons. The most well-known example is O.J. Simpson. He was criminally prosecuted by the People of the State of California (through the Los Angeles County District Attorney's office) for murder (and acquitted) and then was sued (successfully) in civil court for wrongful death by Fred Goldman and others.
As far as why the incident that gave rise to this civil lawsuit did not also result in a criminal prosecution, your guess is as good as mine. Sometimes, a civil lawsuit will succeed where a criminal prosecution will fail. The biggest factor in that is that the burden of proof in criminal court is much higher. Also, in a civil case, the defendant can be compelled to testify, whereas that's not possible in a criminal case. Those are the two biggest reasons why the civil lawsuit against O.J. Simpson succeeded. Dan Petrocelli's book, Triumph of Justice, is an interesting read on the subject.
Well that is definitely true (I recall it's "Preponderance of evidence" and not "Beyond a reasonable doubt.") Just wondering if there was specific reasoning in this case. I figure if someone rapes you, you'd want to the full weight of a criminal court to come down on them, while civil court is where you go when the criminal court doesn't find in your favor (see: Goldmans vs OJ).
That's not really how I'd put it. Typically I suspect you'd want to do both. Ron Goldman would have preferred to have OJ tossed in prison and get all of his money, and would have sued in civil court even if he'd been convicted. Most likely explanation here is that she didn't figure the cops would prosecute him, and now that a few years have passed there's even less chance.
That's quite true (except that you mean Fred Goldman, not Ron). The civil lawsuit was filed before the criminal case concluded; it had to be because of California's one year statute of limitations on wrongful death actions (which has since been changed). But yeah, if this woman never reported the alleged rape to the police, that raises some serious questions.
Oh, absolutely. I was just working from the inference that looking for a payday reflected negatively on her credibility or her character. People are almost always less supportive of the "money grubbing whore."
Under these circumstances, a money judgment is the only thing available to this woman. However, civil lawsuits are not simply about "the money." I don't think Fred Goldman's ever seen a penny from what is now probably a $120+ million judgment. That's because, for the last 25 years, the majority of O.J.'s income has been his protected NFL pension, and he maintained a residence in deadbeat heaven (aka Florida). I do, however, know that O.J.'s golf clubs were levied, but I don't know if they were ever sold. For Fred Goldman and the others, the civil lawsuit was a small vindication for what he viewed as an injustice in the criminal court.
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Wow is this damning of Mike Tomlin. I mean holy cow talk about a genius vs a mental midget. So frustrating:
https://steelersdepot.com/2019/09/film-room-steelers-defense-comes-up-empty-versus-empty/
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Wow is this damning of Mike Tomlin. I mean holy cow talk about a genius vs a mental midget. So frustrating:
https://steelersdepot.com/2019/09/film-room-steelers-defense-comes-up-empty-versus-empty/
More damning of his DC, really, but wow.
CB Joe Haden –> FB James Develin
CB Steven Nelson –> RB Rex Burkhead
SS Terrell Edmunds –> TE Ryan Izzo
ILB Vince Williams –> WR Julian Edelman
OLB Bud Dupree –> WR Josh Gordon
That's a train wreck waiting to happen.
However, the reality is that you're not going to beat TB/JMD with formations and matchups. TB has been around too long. He'll find somebody. The way to beat them is to disguise your coverage to fuck with Brady. You only win if what he sees pre-snap is not what he sees post-snap, then you have to rush his decision making. That's something very few DCs are able to do reliably. It certainly appears that Butler is coaching at a pretty low level, but not many coaches work at a high enough level to do what was necessary here. Last year only 4 teams held NE to 10 pts or less. The DCs were Wade Phillips, two former Patriots DCs (Pees and Patricia), and strangely enough, Butler of Pittsburgh.
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In the last couple years, Phillips in particular has shown a penchant for doing that. The thing is, it's a case-by-case thing; what confuses Brady doesn't confuse Luck, which doesn't confuse Brees, etc. It takes an attention to detail that not every team, not every unit, has.
It's also a trait that I believe is what makes both Belichick and Brady so good on the other side of the ball. You need to run to win? They run. You need to run an Air Coryell West-Coast-style offense to win? They go vertical and do that. You need to run a Bill Walsh West-Coast-style offense to win? They go horizontal and do that. And the great thing is, they have the tools to do that in the huddle, or on a check down at the line of scrimmage.
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In the last couple years, Phillips in particular has shown a penchant for doing that. The thing is, it's a case-by-case thing; what confuses Brady doesn't confuse Luck, which doesn't confuse Brees, etc. It takes an attention to detail that not every team, not every unit, has.
I watched a really good Xs and Os video on how to beat Brady. The problem is that you can confuse the guy with a formation once, and quite possibly twice. The third time he'll burn your ass for it. The conclusion for "how to beat Brady" was A: confuse him pre-snap. B: Pressure him post snap. C: Don't ever try it again. :lol
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I love this line: "[ILB Vince] Williams halfheartedly throws his hands in the air, either wondering how Brady completed the pass or why he’s covering Julian Edelman in the first place."
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LOL Carolina. :lol One of the worst 2 min drills I've ever seen.
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LOL Carolina. :lol One of the worst 2 min drills I've ever seen.
Yeah. Fourth and one foot. "I've got an idea! Let's run a gadget play that starts with the ball 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage!" :lol
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LOL Carolina. :lol One of the worst 2 min drills I've ever seen.
Yeah. Fourth and one foot. "I've got an idea! Let's run a gadget play that starts with the ball 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage!" :lol
I didn't see the play - I opted for "Married At First Sight - The Couples Couch" instead - but seeing that, and based on the degree to which Cam Newton is regaled by some - if they didn't make that, I'm saying that's an embarrassment. A 42 year-old pocket QB converts that on the regular, and Cam can't? As I said, embarrassing.
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I swear, you could write a book about what happened on the last series of downs that started at the 11 YL. The prologue would include the officiating delay of game on the previous play from 31 YL. That last 2 mins was chock full of all kinds of stupid on both sides of the ball. TB just happened to be on the lesser side of the two stupids. :lol :rollin :lol
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LOL Carolina. :lol One of the worst 2 min drills I've ever seen.
Yeah. Fourth and one foot. "I've got an idea! Let's run a gadget play that starts with the ball 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage!" :lol
I didn't see the play - I opted for "Married At First Sight - The Couples Couch" instead - but seeing that, and based on the degree to which Cam Newton is regaled by some - if they didn't make that, I'm saying that's an embarrassment. A 42 year-old pocket QB converts that on the regular, and Cam can't? As I said, embarrassing.
https://www.buccaneers.com/video/christian-mccaffrey-4th-down-vernon-hargreaves-game-winner-bucs-panthers
And I was way off. He started 6 yds behind the LoS.
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LOL Carolina. :lol One of the worst 2 min drills I've ever seen.
Yeah. Fourth and one foot. "I've got an idea! Let's run a gadget play that starts with the ball 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage!" :lol
I didn't see the play - I opted for "Married At First Sight - The Couples Couch" instead - but seeing that, and based on the degree to which Cam Newton is regaled by some - if they didn't make that, I'm saying that's an embarrassment. A 42 year-old pocket QB converts that on the regular, and Cam can't? As I said, embarrassing.
What’s embarrassing is you watching Married At First Sight. My wife watches that. No wonder I watch no TV!
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I love that show!
Anyway, Cam must be hurting worse than they let on, because his absence in that situation is glaring. They didn't even use him as a reasonable decoy.
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I only saw two plays of the game. Cam threw a horrible interception, which got called back, and he promptly fumbled on what seemed like the next play.
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Shed a small tear this morning. Just watched "A Football Life: Terry Bradshaw". There's a scene where his wife and daughter are watching clips of him play and the daughter mumbles, "wow, I never knew; Dad was a real bad ass!" and as a father of a daughter, that really moved me.
It's a great piece, by the way, though I'm a HUGE Bradshaw fan. There's a part where, before the Super Bowl, Thomas Henderson of the Cowboys said "Bradshaw couldn't spell "CAT" if you spotted him the "C" and the "T"." Bradshaw didn't mouth off, didn't challenge him, didn't go on Twitter and whine about how he was disrespected... he went out and threw for over 300 yards and 4 touchdowns and beat them on the field. Love that. LOVE IT.
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Cool. I’ll have to look for that.
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I used to hate Bradshaw because I only knew him as the guy on Fox who talked too much, I am not old enough to have seen him play. But my appreciation for him as a talking head and a person has grown over the years.
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Shed a small tear this morning. Just watched "A Football Life: Terry Bradshaw". There's a scene where his wife and daughter are watching clips of him play and the daughter mumbles, "wow, I never knew; Dad was a real bad ass!" and as a father of a daughter, that really moved me.
It's a great piece, by the way, though I'm a HUGE Bradshaw fan. There's a part where, before the Super Bowl, Thomas Henderson of the Cowboys said "Bradshaw couldn't spell "CAT" if you spotted him the "C" and the "T"." Bradshaw didn't mouth off, didn't challenge him, didn't go on Twitter and whine about how he was disrespected... he went out and threw for over 300 yards and 4 touchdowns and beat them on the field. Love that. LOVE IT.
With some help from the refs.
This all came to mind last week, after Bradshaw called Steelers coach Mike Tomlin a good “cheerleader guy” but not a great coach. Tomlin suggested this comment was unprofessional and added, “But what do I know? I grew up a Dallas fan, particularly a Hollywood Henderson fan.”
That might be the smartest thing Tomlin's ever said (though Terry was right, too). I'm a Hollywood Henderson fan. Terry was kind of an overrated hick, and HH got over the loss by doing a bunch of blow and banging white chicks up and down the Miami coastline.
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Terry didn’t hold back on expressing his thoughts on AB yesterday. :lol
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Terry was kind of an overrated hick,
Yeah, I think that was sort of the "talking point" but I don't believe that to be true. Granted, it was a Bradshaw puff piece in many ways (not much from Chuck Noll's point of view, for example) but I think he was more important in that scheme than some have maintained. When he was hurt or didn't play well, the team didn't win, even with all the horsepower. I also think he was humble at a time and in a manner that didn't help him in the context of "history".
and HH got over the loss by doing a bunch of blow and banging white chicks up and down the Miami coastline.
Can't void him for that, I'll give you. We all grieve in our own way. :)
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Why isn't Josh Rosen playing? Since the Dolphins are throwing away this season, he should be getting some experience.
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Looks like Sean Payton has been extended by 5 years. I'm gonna be on my knees praying for a healthy Drew Brees playing until he's 45 since I'm a lil scared to see SP running a team without Brees there to compensate for his shortcomings.
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Right on cue, Rosen enters the game and proceeds to throw two lasers down field...both drops!
Josh, get out of bounds, fool! :lol
Looks like Sean Payton has been extended by 5 years. I'm gonna be on my knees praying for a healthy Drew Brees playing until he's 45 since I'm a lil scared to see SP running a team without Brees there to compensate for his shortcomings.
Amen, brother!
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Why isn't Josh Rosen playing? Since the Dolphins are throwing away this season, he should be getting some experience.
That locker room is as much a mess as the team on the field is; following the game, the Cowher/Boomer/Simms/Burleson team were killing on Brian Flores more than anything. That team is not under control.
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Saint's just can't catch a break against LAR.
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This game is brutal. It's like the Jets and Dolphins are wearing Saints and Rams uniforms.
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This game is brutal. It's like the Jets and Dolphins are wearing Saints and Rams uniforms.
It is brutal, but it's also telling. The Rams are not dominating on offense, and the Saints are hanging in there despite no compelling reason why they should. We might be watching one of those games that influences the rest of the season.
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How so?
I mean, looks like Brees may have some ligament damage or something, so that may alter the season, but maybe the Rams offense isn't all it was cracked up to be.
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What a finish in Denver, hopefully Bradley Chubb learns from his mistake in simply taking a QB to the ground as he's getting rid of the ball so he doesn't get called for roughing the passer again :facepalm:
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How so?
I mean, looks like Brees may have some ligament damage or something, so that may alter the season, but maybe the Rams offense isn't all it was cracked up to be.
Well, bearing in mind that I was dead wrong; as soon as I posted that, the Rams opened it up, but that's where I was going. I was hinting that maybe the Rams weren't going to be as dominant this year, and that game - with the blown TD call, and the injury to Brees - might have been the kind of thing that inspires an epic run by the Saints...
But it didn't turn out that way.
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So, I know it's ONLY week 2. But anyone up for "contenders vs. pretenders" for the undefeated teams?
My takes:
-New England: Contenders. It seems like I can point to quite a few seasons in the Brady era where, even close to the playoffs, my feelings are along the lines of, "They are a solid team that will make it to the playoffs, and will likely have a decent run. But...they don't really scare me." This is a team that is scary good. I would not be surprised if this is the year we get a 19-0 team.
-Buffalo: Pretenders. I can't say they'll be "bad" this year. But they've only played the Jets and Giants. They won't be undefeated very deep into the season.
-Ravens: Not sure. Their early season success may just be flash in the pan luck. Or there may be something to it. But their quick start and the Steelers losing key personnel and games early could make them a lock for the division.
-Chiefs: Contenders. Hate to say it. I hope their starters all choke on a pregame meal early in the season. But I don't see them not being one of the top teams in the AFC as the season is winding down.
-Cowboys: I think they are contenders. It's early. They've only played the Giants and Redskins. But that's 2-0 in the division right out of the gate. That's how you make sure to get to the playoffs.
-Packers: Pretenders. I hope they do well. But I'm shocked they're 2-0. Yeah, it's 2-0 in the division just like the Cowboys. But they were both close games that could have easily gone the other way. This team still has more to show me before I give them a lot of credit.
-Rams: Contenders for sure. With the Saints down a QB, the Rams should easily be the NFC favorite.
-49ers: I want to say contenders, but not sure. Their wins were not against good teams. But they were very decisive wins where all three phases of the game played well. I think the pieces may be in place for them to make some waves in the playoffs.
-Seahawks: Pretenders. 2-0. But just barely, and against bad teams. And there aren't many names on their roster that give me concern. Still, this team has made a habit of squeaking by in the regular season and racking up just enough wins to get into the playoffs, only to wreak havok once they get there. I can't completely write them off.
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Well Ben’s done for the year. It was a GREAT ride but it’s time for the Mason Rudolph era to begin. I suppose Ben could try to come back next year but he’d be 38 and has a lot more miles and hits on him than Brady has.
Nothing really matters as long as Tomlin is the coach. He gave the game away at least 3 times yesterday with bone-headed decisions.
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What strikes me in your write up is how many of those include the phrase "not against good teams" or a variation on that. I think you can count the unequivocally GOOD teams on one hand, maybe stealing a finger or two. There are far more NOT GOOD teams in the league, by at least a multiple.
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What strikes me in your write up is how many of those include the phrase "not against good teams" or a variation on that.
I think you may be giving that too much weight. Yeah, I did say it twice, and maybe implied it two other times. But there is also some overlap in the teams I considered "not very good." And there are only six of those teams total (Jets, Giants (x2), Redskins, Bucs, Bengals (x2), and Steelers [without Ben and AB]). Are you telling me you think that labeling 6 out of 32 teams as "not very good" is an unrealistic assessment? I don't think it is, and I think the opinions that most if not all of those 32 teams are "not very good" will likely be borne out as the season progresses. Heck, they're already all 0-2, so going by the purely objective measure that they haven't yet won games this season certainly puts them on the "not very good" track.
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If the injuries to their offensive line aren't severe this could very well be the best team Belichick has fielded. That should scare everybody. I have to assume that at least one of their receivers will implode along the way, but this was an elite Patriots team with just one elite WR around. This is a solid offense with a much better D. And the good news is that with the best O-line coach in the NFL, I'm really not terribly concerned about that.
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What strikes me in your write up is how many of those include the phrase "not against good teams" or a variation on that.
I think you may be giving that too much weight. Yeah, I did say it twice, and maybe implied it two other times. But there is also some overlap in the teams I considered "not very good." And there are only six of those teams total (Jets, Giants (x2), Redskins, Bucs, Bengals (x2), and Steelers [without Ben and AB]). Are you telling me you think that labeling 6 out of 32 teams as "not very good" is an unrealistic assessment? I don't think it is, and I think the opinions that most if not all of those 32 teams are "not very good" will likely be borne out as the season progresses. Heck, they're already all 0-2, so going by the purely objective measure that they haven't yet won games this season certainly puts them on the "not very good" track.
No, I was going the other way, that the number of "not very good" is shockingly high. I'm a fan of "any given Sunday", but if you really look hard, there are a handful - and not more - of really good teams, but the bulk of the teams in the NFL are, in my opinion , skewed towards "not very good".
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If the injuries to their offensive line aren't severe this could very well be the best team Belichick has fielded. That should scare everybody. I have to assume that at least one of their receivers will implode along the way, but this was an elite Patriots team with just one elite WR around. This is a solid offense with a much better D. And the good news is that with the best O-line coach in the NFL, I'm really not terribly concerned about that.
Yep, I agree with all of that. Regarding the offense, I had a fun thought earlier. This is a really dumbed-down way of looking at things, but still: As much of an undeniable superstar as Brady is, somebody else on the team played better in last year's SB to earn the MVP. That guy is still on the team. WITH BRADY. And now, they have somebody else on the team who is arguably even better than THAT guy.
What strikes me in your write up is how many of those include the phrase "not against good teams" or a variation on that.
I think you may be giving that too much weight. Yeah, I did say it twice, and maybe implied it two other times. But there is also some overlap in the teams I considered "not very good." And there are only six of those teams total (Jets, Giants (x2), Redskins, Bucs, Bengals (x2), and Steelers [without Ben and AB]). Are you telling me you think that labeling 6 out of 32 teams as "not very good" is an unrealistic assessment? I don't think it is, and I think the opinions that most if not all of those 32 teams are "not very good" will likely be borne out as the season progresses. Heck, they're already all 0-2, so going by the purely objective measure that they haven't yet won games this season certainly puts them on the "not very good" track.
No, I was going the other way, that the number of "not very good" is shockingly high. I'm a fan of "any given Sunday", but if you really look hard, there are a handful - and not more - of really good teams, but the bulk of the teams in the NFL are, in my opinion , skewed towards "not very good".
Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm not sure I'd say that there are that few good teams, but I don't disagree with the overall sentiment. Obviously, it depends on where you draw the line for "really good team." But most seasons, I kind of feel like there are an average of about 5 really good teams per conference. All things playing out in a pretty typical fashion, it usually shakes out along the lines of: 3 good division winners (one division winner of the 4 just making it in because they were in a weak division), 1 really good wildcard team (the other not generally as good), and one really good team that just misses the playoffs just due to some tough breaks, injuries, or maybe just having a slow start and not really putting things together until too late in the season.
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Not really kidding here: this Cleveland/NYJ game is like watching Div. II college.
The announcer - Booger MacFarland? - keeps saying "Adam Gase, you're Adam Gase! Be creative!" It's hard to be creative when you're struggling with basic blocking and tackling.
And if I'm a Cleveland fan, I'm drinking heavily; one play Baker Mayfield looks like he's playing with a blindfold on, and the next he's throwing this tight spiral 30 yards downfield on a string, looking like John Elway. Then, the blindfold is back on.
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And if I'm a Cleveland fan, I'm drinking heavily
Again, why do you have to repeat yourself?
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I've been drinking heavily.
And LITERALLY as I'm writing all that, Mayfield tosses it to OBJ who takes it 89 yards to the house.
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And just like the Rams, it takes a post from you on DTF to get the offense in gear. :lol
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That was ugly... it felt like the Jets were just trying to get the game over with from the start. What a treat for Monday Night Football :lol
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I actually picked the Jets to win at home and they don't need QB problems to play badly. :facepalm:
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Is the Eli Manning era over in New York? It might be premature to put the final nail in, but my Magic Eight Ball says "All signs point to yes".
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27636024/giants-bench-eli-elevate-jones-starting-qb
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Does anyone listen to the TNF/MNF broadcasts on Westwood One Radio? The sports talk station I listen to occasionally switches over to those broadcasts when I'm driving home, so I hear some of the pregame stuff. Two things absolutely baffle me.
First, there is some guy who does drops who sounds like he's trying to imitate Tony the Tiger if Tony were drunk and a creepy pervert (as opposed to a non-creepy pervert, I guess). Low, extremely gravelly voice. I have no idea who he is, but he makes me laugh.
Second, they do these spots where Jim Grahe interviews Tom Brady. It's so obviously scripted and milquetoast. Yesterday, they had Joe Namath on with them and talked about how Brady had recently watched the first MNF broadcast between the Browns and Jets. Brady washed Namath's balls something fierce. At that point I changed the station.
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I believe your first point is about Kevin Harlan. He is indeed great with a brilliant sense of humor. He had the epic call of that streaker a while back.
https://youtu.be/Wopy6Ntd834
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I believe your first point is about Kevin Harlan. He is indeed great with a brilliant sense of humor. He had the epic call of that streaker a while back.
https://youtu.be/Wopy6Ntd834
No. The guy I'm talking about isn't Kevin Harlan (whom I also like).
I did some googling, and it seems like it's someone named David Lee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXU7mIFSn_Y
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-Buffalo: Pretenders. I can't say they'll be "bad" this year. But they've only played the Jets and Giants. They won't be undefeated very deep into the season.
I heard a crazy stat yesterday.
The Buffalo Bills are now one of only 4 teams in NFL history to have successive road wins against the Jets and Giants. All 3 previous such teams made the playoffs.
I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying.
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Too bad the Bills will have those 4 consecutive SB losses hanging over their heads until the end of time. :lol Imagine them actually getting back to the SB and the amount of pressure to actually win it. :omg:
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Imagine them actually getting back to the SB...
See, this is the part where I'm having difficulty. :lol
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:rollin
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Guess who the 3rd winningest QB on Buffalo's home field is?
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cc7O95rUMAASMDW.jpg)
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Frank "queen of the" Reich? :lol
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:lol
Nope. Here is a hint.
🐐
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(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LastNimbleFireant-max-1mb.gif)
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LOL Tom Brady :lolpalm: Duh...shoulda known that.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/jwKpxz0uGrqcTjDKvs/giphy.gif)
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Can't help but wonder whether he went on Etsy.com to try to find a nice little shadow box to display those.
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The boxes they come in are insane.
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On a related note, guess who’s the career leader in wins at the Browns’ home stadium?
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The new stadium Dream Team?
If so, I'd say Big Ben.
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This Jets season is going great so far...
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Another awesome TNF matchup last night. :slowclap: :yeahright
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Oh the irony. Brady complaining about too many penalties and that tricky-tack roughing the passer call last night, considering last week a ref told a Dolphins player to “stay off Tom” and then of course that horrendous shot he took from Jones in last year’s title game that totally changed the game :facepalm:.
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Brady has nothing to do with rule changes unless it benefits 31 other teams. LOL
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Another awesome TNF matchup last night. :slowclap: :yeahright
I forgot to check my fantasy football lineup before the game and, as a result, left the Jags as my starting defense (I have the Bears as my backup). Had I checked, I probably would have started the Bears and missed out on the 15 points that the Jags defense earned for me. Woot!
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Patriots released Brown.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001056909/article/patriots-release-wr-antonio-brown-amid-allegations
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I suggest it's going to get uglier and messier for Brown before it gets better.
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Releasing Brown makes perfect sense. The guy's an idiot, as we all know. His value isn't worth the headache he creates. The recent release about the "menacing" messages was nonsense, though. It was a foolish lack of judgment on the part of a monumental fool, but is generally pretty innocuous, unless you're desperately looking for more reasons to hate the guy.
Here's a picture of her kids. Sure looks like she's poor to me. No wonder she's after my money.
OMG!!! He's threatening her children! F2B!
There are more than enough reasons to hate the guy. No need to start creating new ones out of thin air.
This just in, Homer Simpson sleeps naked in an oxygen tent, which he claims gives him sexual powers!
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Bye bye Antonio.
Talk about a guy killing his career.
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Around three years ago, since I am a Central Michigan alum, my wonderful wife bought me a Chippewa #27 Antonio jersey. Kinda fun to wear the week the Ravens-Steelers were playing, and off and on during the years.
Past tense.
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So.... I called Seattle at home in September, like everyone else, but this Saints team is doing all the right things.
Oh, and Jim Nance is a tool. Horrible. Unlistenable. But I can't turn the sound off, because he's paired with the great Tony Romo, who I want to hear do every game. it's like having Dave Navarro (one of my favorite guitar players of all time) playing with Anthony Keidis (one of my least favorite singers of all time).
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One Hot Minute is an amazing album though!
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Definitely wasn't too interested in watching the Giants today, and at halftime, I was glad I didn't watch, but I was stuffed from lunch so came back to my room and put the 2nd half on and wow Daniel Jones was really impressive. I don't think he will save the Giants season (defense will hold them back from winning) but it was nice to see a come back victory even if it needed the help of Matt Gay. I'll take a win and an awesome debut performance. :yarr
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One Hot Minute is an amazing album though!
I can't believe I'm reading this.
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One Hot Minute is an amazing album though!
I can't believe I'm reading this.
Believe it bro. Even saw them at the Garden on that tour!
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One Hot Minute is an amazing album though!
I can't believe I'm reading this.
Believe it bro. Even saw them at the Garden on that tour!
Nice, I'm surprised you like them too, but Stadium Arcadium is where it's at :hat
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So, I own two RHCP albums, and honestly, I'm not looking to branch out. :lol
I have Mother's Milk, as my college roommate drilled in into my head. That's a cool album though. And in the mid 90's, um, let's just say I was off kilter for about a year. :lol
Both albums are excellent.
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I like the Frusciante albums the most, mostly the 3 albums when he returned, but I actually never listened to Mother's Milk which he was also on. Maybe I'd like it, but I've mostly haven't liked old school RHCP that I heard.
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So, I own two RHCP albums, and honestly, I'm not looking to branch out. :lol
I have Mother's Milk, as my college roommate drilled in into my head. That's a cool album though. And in the mid 90's, um, let's just say I was off kilter for about a year. :lol
Both albums are excellent.
DUDE! Exactly the same for me. I have Mother's Milk and One Hot Minute, and I'm good. Zero desire to expand from that. MM is worth it just for the cover of Higher Ground and Johnny Kick A Hole In The Sky (weird song, but I like it in a Faith No More sort of way).
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:metal :metal
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Dude. I love my flip phone!!
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Set phaser to stun motherfucker!
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Dude. I love my flip phone!!
Why should I change it? It still works fine.
Defense wins championships.
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Only one championship. Not 6.
*cock walks over flip phone*
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DUDE! Exactly the same for me. I have Mother's Milk and One Hot Minute, and I'm good. Zero desire to expand from that. MM is worth it just for the cover of Higher Ground and Johnny Kick A Hole In The Sky (weird song, but I like it in a Faith No More sort of way).
I recently, like in the last 3 weeks, listened to Johnny. I was considering using it in a roulette.
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Thankfully the Rams stopped the Browns at the end or I'd be 0-3 today. Yeesh.
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I was pleasantly surprised at how well the Panthers played yesterday. It didn't seem like simply a matter of switching out Cam for a backup. The whole team played better than they have since the first half of last season.
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So all the newb QBs played great yesterday except of course the one coached by Mike Tomlin. No surprise there.
Daniel Jones made at least 15 plays that Eli wouldn’t have made. If Eli is self-aware at all, he would have noticed that from the sideline and thought “oh yeah, that’s why he replaced me”.
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I'm sure Eli knows, but it was awesome watching Eli coach up Daniel on the sidelines. The team honestly looked more inspired as well. It's funny, my friends are all joking about going to the super bowl because of how big that win felt yesterday for the team, even though the reality is that we won by luck and it wasn't against some great competition either. I'm just happy to have been entertained by it all honestly, I have no expectations for this team but if they are at least fun to watch, it's a huge upgrade over the last few years of watching the Giants and gives hope for a future. We will see, one lucky game means very little in the big picture.
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The Redskins fucking blow. Holy shit!
And WTF is with Steve Young's hair? What is that?
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Fuck mono. That is all.
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I'm a fan of the Giants, and I don't want to shit on the good spirits because the future is bright, but during the MNF game last night, the crawl had "Daniel Jones, 3 Rushes, Top Speed 19 MPH" or something very similar. I'm happy for the Gints, but when one of your key stats is the land speed of your QB, I'm thinking you still have other issues to address. Plus with Barkley out for 4 to 8 weeks, that's going to take it's toll.
Lot of time spent on Kyle Allen as well last night (though word is, Cam is more injured (https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/24/panthers-cam-newton-lisfranc-injury-report-kyle-allen/) than first indicated).
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The Redskins fucking blow. Holy shit!
And WTF is with Steve Young's hair? What is that?
No shit. Skins are worse than I initially thought. They will be the basement dwellers of the NFC East this year.
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How many people picked the Packers last night? A helluva lot I'm sure. 1st & Goal on the 1YL. Can't get in. Really? :facepalm:
Had another chance to go down and tie the game. INT in the endzone. :\ Troy Aikman jinxed em. "There's no one in the league better at the 2:00 drill than Aaron Rodgers" :lol
Thanks Troy :clap:
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I didn't touch that game. The Packers were undefeated frauds, and the Eagles are better than they've shown.
I missed the goalline stand. Hasn't Rogers already come out and thrown his coach under the bus for the 4 pass plays?
He's a douche.
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Well, the play calling was definitely questionable on the goalline, but Rodgers has the ability to change the calls when he sees fit. Philly gave them every chance to tie and possible win. Packers didn't except the gift.
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I see no problem with the play calling on the opponent's one yard line at the end of the game.
-Darrell Bevell
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I checked the score at intermission of the Steve Hackett show and GB was up 10-0. My phone died on the way home so I didn't check it, but WTF.
I can't pick my nose this year.
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Buffalo here I come!
Though the 430am wake up call is no fun. Secret meetup as well DTF'ers.
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Is the hoser making the trip?
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Is the hoser making the trip?
Stay tuned Tim!
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Sexy Rexy wearing orange and brown today!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFoya2AW4AEcPkj?format=png&name=small)
:rollin :rollin :rollin
:clap:
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What a fucking tool.
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Bucs 55-40 at LA? Wow!
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The Gardner Minshew legend grows!
Also, no dtf.org buzz about Jennifer Lopez and Shakira headlining the SB halftime show? I... have heard of them. One I believe is dating Alex Rodriguez. I know the other is a singer though could not tell you one thing she has ever done.
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What Shakira has done is not important. :zydarscouch:
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Shakira is known for her hips, not her hits.
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HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS?!!!
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Shakira is known for her hips, not her hits.
Aren't they both known for their hips or other assets that looks like they curve? I'm so out of touch. The NFL can't afford T. Swift or someone else just to bring someone more modern rather than two women that peaked 15 years ago?
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Shakira is known for her hips, not her hits.
Aren't they both known for their hips or other assets that looks like they curve? I'm so out of touch. The NFL can't afford T. Swift or someone else just to bring someone more modern rather than two women that peaked 15 years ago?
Most NFL fans peaked 15 (or more) years ago, so I find their inclusion rather fitting...
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Since when was the halftime show act been designed to appeal to NFL fans?
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Shakira is known for her hips, not her hits.
Aren't they both known for their hips or other assets that looks like they curve? I'm so out of touch. The NFL can't afford T. Swift or someone else just to bring someone more modern rather than two women that peaked 15 years ago?
Don't call me racist, because this is THEIR marketing not mine (J-Lo said it in one of the commercials on the NFL Network), but they are tapping into the "Latina" aspect of the artists. They're not there because of their music, their legacy or their achievements. They are there to show how "woke" the NFL is now.
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Well, it makes sense if they are celebrating the culture in Miami.
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Then get Gloria Estefan and the Miami Sound Machine.
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Makes total sense.
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HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS?!!!
Pfff...both teams sucked on offense. No matter who won, the game was ugly and didn't deserve a primetime audience.
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only took 13 suspensions and fines to sit Vontaze Burfict for the rest of the season.
good things the NFL cares about its players.
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I must say I have really enjoyed watching the Giants the last two weeks since benching Eli. Always was a big Eli supporter, but Jones seems to have lit a fire within the team. The redskins are garbage and I won't take the win as more than beating a team that is really bad, but to see the team grow and be competitive is what I wanted all along. Didn't see any of that in games 1 and 2 and felt like this year would be a waste, but even if we lose the rest of the games, as long as they compete and grow like they have in the last 2 games, I can at least watch and feel better about the team.
Having said that, we are getting hit hard with injuries and while it's been fun to go from 0-2 to 2-0, this team really isn't going to go anywhere. I just want to see them build upon themselves and set themselves up for a good future with Jones/Barkley on offense and draft up to build that defense for the years to come. (sucks our rookie LB Connolly is out for the year now >:( )
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Glad the Panthers are starting to play well. Kyle Allen has really given them a lift (despite his 3 fumbles yesterday). He joined Patrick Mahomes and Jeff Hofstetler as the only QBs in the Super Bowl era to win their first 3 starts, all on the road.
Allen also joins Carson Wentz as the only two QBs in the Super Bowl era to go 3-0 in the first 3 starts with no interceptions.
Also, Christian McCaffrey is a beast.
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I enjoyed seeing a commercial with all those people in the jerseys of the Potatoes, with the voice over of a 'Hail Mary' failing, whilst an individual off camera goes 'Whoooo!' because he'd just bitten into a spicy McD chicken something.
Appropriate ad. Appropriate team. Waiting for DC owner Snydlee to sue for copyright infringement or slander due to ....the truth.
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HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS?!!!
Pfff...both teams sucked on offense. No matter who won, the game was ugly and didn't deserve a primetime audience.
The Saints pulled this off with a middle of the road backup QB. What's Dallas' excuse?
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Wow, the Bengals suck.
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Wow, the Bengals suck.
It's not just the Bengals. The entire AFC North is probably the worst division in the NFL. If they had the Dolphins then the vortex of suck would be complete...
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Yeah, making the Steelers look good is hard to do, the Bengals are pretty rough.
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Hey, Kev. Is this the best D of the Belichick era? I only have a vague recollection of the early 00's teams. I expected them to be a top D this year, but they've exceeded my expectations by a considerable amount.
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Bart, it’s hard to tell at this point. They are excellent though. But remember they’ve played 4 of the 5 worst offenses and QBs with 4 of the 5 worst QBRs.
That’s not likely to change this weekend either.
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Yes, Tim is right. I would say you need to play like that against terrible offenses though.
Next 3 weeks are below average teams.
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I'm waiting to see how they scheme against a decent, well-thought out offense (as opposed to 11 athletes winging it).
I do love how they seem to be a big play unit. I am spoiled; I grew up watching LT, and I can't tell you how many times me, or my dad, or the announcer, or someone, would say " the Gints need a stop here" or "the Gints need a turnover here" and within a play or two LT comes up with a backfield tackle, or a forced fumble. That guy was magic, and while the Pats don't have an LT, they seem to have a knack for the right play at the right time. That's not all coaching, although coaching sets the stage for it.
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HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS?!!!
Pfff...both teams sucked on offense. No matter who won, the game was ugly and didn't deserve a primetime audience.
The Saints pulled this off with a middle of the road backup QB. What's Dallas' excuse?
Probably the same excuse the Saints used last year with Brees. :lol QB's had nothing to do with it. All defense. Both games were ugly because people don't want to see defense. They want to see an offensive shootout.
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HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS?!!!
Pfff...both teams sucked on offense. No matter who won, the game was ugly and didn't deserve a primetime audience.
The Saints pulled this off with a middle of the road backup QB. What's Dallas' excuse?
Probably the same excuse the Saints used last year with Brees. :lol QB's had nothing to do with it. All defense. Both games were ugly because people don't want to see defense. They want to see an offensive shootout.
Bruh, Dak played last year as well. Your reasoning would be a lot more sound if their win last year had come with a backup QB so without that it ain't apples to apples. Each team won a defensive struggle at home over the last two seasons except the only reason this game was as close as it was was probably because Bridgewater has shitty pocket awareness and holds on to the ball like it's velcroed to his hand. That made the O-line have to protect him way longer than if they were protecting Brees and that led to a lot of holding calls. It's pretty unrealistic to think the offense would've sputtered like that under Brees regardless of what happened last year.
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You're missing the point and putting all the focus on the QB's. QB's don't win or lose games. The team as whole wins or loses games. It's a team sport. Last year's game was almost an exact duplicate of Sunday night's game. The fact that you didn't have Brees this time has no bearing whatsoever because it was a battle of defenses. Brees would have struggled just as much as Bridgewater did.
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And bear in mind, Bridgewater is doing what he's told to do: a holding call or two is far better than a shitty interception while he's doing donuts in the backfield.
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You're missing the point and putting all the focus on the QB's. QB's don't win or lose games. The team as whole wins or loses games. It's a team sport. Last year's game was almost an exact duplicate of Sunday night's game. The fact that you didn't have Brees this time has no bearing whatsoever because it was a battle of defenses. Brees would have struggled just as much as Bridgewater did.
Lol. There's no way in hell that Brees and Bridgewater would fare equally against the same team in just about any circumstance. If he had that ability, he'd be starting somewhere right now and would've scoffed at whatever contract the Saints offered him.
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You're missing the point and putting all the focus on the QB's. QB's don't win or lose games. The team as whole wins or loses games. It's a team sport. Last year's game was almost an exact duplicate of Sunday night's game. The fact that you didn't have Brees this time has no bearing whatsoever because it was a battle of defenses. Brees would have struggled just as much as Bridgewater did.
Lol. There's no way in hell that Brees and Bridgewater would fare equally against the same team in just about any circumstance. If he had that ability, he'd be starting somewhere right now and would've scoffed at whatever contract the Saints offered him.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but he was offered - guaranteed - the starting job in Miami, and turned it down to stay in NO.
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You're missing the point and putting all the focus on the QB's. QB's don't win or lose games. The team as whole wins or loses games. It's a team sport. Last year's game was almost an exact duplicate of Sunday night's game. The fact that you didn't have Brees this time has no bearing whatsoever because it was a battle of defenses. Brees would have struggled just as much as Bridgewater did.
Lol. There's no way in hell that Brees and Bridgewater would fare equally against the same team in just about any circumstance. If he had that ability, he'd be starting somewhere right now and would've scoffed at whatever contract the Saints offered him.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but he was offered - guaranteed - the starting job in Miami, and turned it down to stay in NO.
Can't blame him.
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You're missing the point and putting all the focus on the QB's. QB's don't win or lose games. The team as whole wins or loses games. It's a team sport. Last year's game was almost an exact duplicate of Sunday night's game. The fact that you didn't have Brees this time has no bearing whatsoever because it was a battle of defenses. Brees would have struggled just as much as Bridgewater did.
Lol. There's no way in hell that Brees and Bridgewater would fare equally against the same team in just about any circumstance. If he had that ability, he'd be starting somewhere right now and would've scoffed at whatever contract the Saints offered him.
Yes, there is a way. The game a season ago when the Aints QB might as well have been named Drew Bridgewater. :rollin
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It's hilarious to see a fan of the most perpetually overrated team pull the ol' Aints card. Enjoy the silver anniversary of the last title y'all's asses will ever have as long as Jerruh has a pulse.
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Conservative Pete Carroll on 4th and 1 opts for the cowardly try-to-draw-them-offsides chickenshit and is suitably punished with a missed FG followed by a Rams TD drive. Picking up my mantra from last year that conservative gutless coaching needs to die an ugly death.
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Paul Allen inducted in to the Seahawks Ring of Honor before the game today, not coincidentally as the 12th member. There is no NFL team in Seattle without him, certainly no SB48 champion and perennial contender. He is everything you could possibly want as your team's owner. He wasn't just a man with deep pockets and the willingness to reach in to them. He was a fan. He loved the Seahawks. And he loved Seattle and the PNW. Thank you Paul. And if you are reading this on a PC, you can thank him for that too.
God I hate those green uniforms.
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Picking up my mantra from last year that conservative gutless coaching needs to die an ugly death.
I intensely agree. For as much as people fawn over Sean Payton's "Balls of steel" (no one uses that phrasing but that's the general sentiment) for opening the second half of SB XLIV with an onside kick, his play calling is nearly identical to Jim Mora's if he's in this specific situation which inevitably happens at least 3 times a season:
- Less than 5 minutes remaining in the game.
- Saints clinging to a one possession lead.
- Three or fewer first downs will allow us to run out the clock.
I swear, he acts like Roger Goodell is gonna drop in via helicopter, hold the score keeper at gun point, and demand the Saints be awarded 7 points just for making the other team waste 2 or 3 timeouts while we run ill-fated draws or off tackles for < 3 yards per carry and ultimately end up punting.
It just makes me infuriated enough to punch a wall that he somehow thinks it's 100% preferable to run predictable, low percentage running plays just to milk opponents' timeouts as opposed to using one of the best offenses in the NFL, year in and year out, over the last 13 years to move the sticks 2 or 3 times.
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My wife uses that phrasing. :tup :hat
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Nevermind.
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My wife uses that phrasing. :tup :hat
No, I meant nobody specifically says that when talking about Payton, generally speaking. But kudos to the missus anyhoo.
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Well that was close!
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Seeing how beatable the Rams now look, it really pisses me off that Cam Jordan got gypped out of his fumble return TD. Considering that the Rams had done nothing to that point, that kinda momentum could've loomed large in a tight game like that. Regardless, it's cool that the Saints can shrug off that lost tiebreaker for the time being as long as they stay one ahead of the Rams in the loss column.
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WOW! As a fan of both teams, I couldn't ask for a better game. But dammit, enough with these bad calls/no calls in Seattle! It's really making the Seahawks look bad, and they're used as excuses for winning.
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Conservative Pete Carroll on 4th and 1 opts for the cowardly try-to-draw-them-offsides chickenshit and is suitably punished with a missed FG followed by a Rams TD drive. Picking up my mantra from last year that conservative gutless coaching needs to die an ugly death.
Yeah no kidding! That was way too conservative. When Pete Carroll used to make gutsy calls it led to winning games and making it to two superbowls.
Last nights win was awesome, the Hawks lucked out on that missed field goal though. Russel Wilson had a great game and this win is a nice tribute to Paul Allen, as Cool Chris stated a few posts above.
Also that throw and TD catch to Tyler Lockett may be the best play of the year so far in the NFL..
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Watching Wilson last night; you’d have to do some fast talking to convince me he’s not the best QB in the league. Or a close second to Mahomes. Can’t put Brady there after the way he looked last week, plus Brady has a historically great D behind him.
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The Rams just look like they don't have any fire. Seattle played well for sure, but not perfect, and not good enough to beat a team that is firing on all cylinders.
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I cannot think of anything worse than a Pete Carroll/Russell Wilson team winning a game. The only consolation is that it means the Rams lost.
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I cannot think of anything worse than a Pete Carroll/Russell Wilson team winning a game.
There's this team called the Raiders....
Fortunately, I didn't even realize there was a football game on last night.
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Watching Wilson last night; you’d have to do some fast talking to convince me he’s not the best QB in the league. Or a close second to Mahomes. Can’t put Brady there after the way he looked last week, plus Brady has a historically great D behind him.
Wilson is certainly in the top tier (which I have said for years). I don't want to get into a debate over who is number 1 or number 2 or whatever, but if we can assume the top tier is no more than 4-5 guys, Wilson is absolutely in that top tier. It still feels like he doesn't get his due since many (wrongly) assume he was carried to his only Super Bowl win by a great D and Marshawn Lynch.
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Mason Rudolph got knocked out cold by a typically dirty Ravens hit, but they’re beating them with a third string QB late in the 4th. We’ll see if they can hold the lead.
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Tuned in to watch the Charlotte/Jacksonville game and it turned out to be a great game. I had plans today but I got sucked into watching the whole game.
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Mason Rudolph got knocked out cold by a typically dirty Ravens hit, but they’re beating them with a third string QB late in the 4th. We’ll see if they can hold the lead.
Yeah, that was brutal. Tough loss for the Steelers. They deserved the W.
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Tough loss for the Refs and the Steelers , Refs gave it their best.
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It's so awesome to see the Saints keep rolling without Brees. Last year, I remember 90+% of the sports media saying the Saints would be lucky to go .500 during a six-game stretch involving BAL/MIN/LAR/CIN/PHI/ATL and they straight ran the table. Not getting ahead of myself and saying they'll remain perfect in Brees' absence but the Bears seem to be the only legit threat in the next 5 games. That stretch includes jax/chi/ARZ/bye/ATL/tb (home games in caps).
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The Saints definitely are in that top tier of the NFC.
Meanwhile, Dallas is getting exposed and embarrassed by the Packers.
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They were paper tigers from jump street. They beat up a bunch of freshmen (whose current combined record is 2-12 with two of those teams still being winless) and the Dallas-fellating media had silver and blue balls resting on their chin like every season since 1970. Woulda been nice if they coulda pulled their weight and helped the Saints become the #2 seed by beating the Packers though.
Can't wait to see Dublagent trying to talk smack about the Saints while rooting for the biggest fraud, so far, in the NFL this season.
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Wow, Dallas had gotten back it it, with the ball at 31-17, and Dak just threw an awful pick.
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It's weird for them to have suddenly woken up like that. I got bored and was fucking off doing sports quizzes on Sporcle so I couldn't tell if they just found their groove or if GB was watching the clock and playing prevent way too early.
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I haven't been doing the power rankings, but I am pretty sure right now the top 10 would be NE, KC and 8 NFC teams. I can't take any teams in the AFC seriously as contenders besides the Pats and Chiefs.
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Yup. That game in December between KC and the Pats will be huge.
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I haven't been doing the power rankings, but I am pretty sure right now the top 10 would be NE, KC and 8 NFC teams. I can't take any teams in the AFC seriously as contenders besides the Pats and Chiefs.
The AFC is clearly down to Chiefs/Pats, but it would take you 8 NFC teams before you got to Baltimore?
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The AFC is clearly down to Chiefs/Pats, but it would take you 8 NFC teams before you got to Baltimore?
Yes. The Ravens are an average at best team. They beat the Dolphins, Cardinals and Steelers (with their 3rd string QB). BFD. Let me know when they beat a good team.
I'll take all over these teams over Baltimore right now:
New England
Kansas City
Seattle
New Orleans
Green Bay
Philly
LA Rams
San Fran.
Dallas
Houston
Minnesota
Chicago
Carolina
And maybe Buffalo and Detroit. And possibly Cleveland depending on what they do tomorrow night.
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Two questions..
1. Who do you rank 3rd in the East, and
2. What 8 NFC teams do you put in front of them?
I still feel like Baltimore is #3 in the East.
Oh, and two statements...
1. I like the "At home with Baker Mayfield" commercials, and
2. I am rooting for Jacoby Brissett.
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See my edit above.
How is Baltimore 3rd in the East? They run the ball well. Other than that, what else do they have? A young QB who is still not good at throwing the ball consistently, and their defense has been exposed as not being as good as in the past. They could very well win that division because the Bengals stink and the Steelers are in disarray, but unless the defense suddenly gets a lot better and Jackson improves greatly at throwing the ball overnight, they are not a real contender.
I think you Patriots fans have been conditioned to fear the Ravens because they are one of the few teams to have some success against your team during the Brady/Belichick era (along with the Broncos and Giants).
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Thank you for the edit.
Was just asking. ;D
I never said they're a contender.
See...?
The AFC is clearly down to Chiefs/Pats,
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To take nothing away from Mahomes, WTF was the Colts' D doing on that play?
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Was Mahomes hurt? Sorry, I fully admit I'm not on the Patrick Mahomes Fellatio Squad (yet) but that last quarter was not impressive at all. I know, I know, it's one quarter (that's all I watched), and you can't ignore the last 21 games, but I think that showed what I already knew: that's still an Andy Reid team. REALLY good at some things, not good enough at others.
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The AFC is clearly down to Chiefs/Pats, but it would take you 8 NFC teams before you got to Baltimore?
Yes. The Ravens are an average at best team. They beat the Dolphins, Cardinals and Steelers (with their 3rd string QB). BFD. Let me know when they beat a good team.
I'll take all over these teams over Baltimore right now:
New England
Kansas City
Seattle
New Orleans
Green Bay
Philly
LA Rams
San Fran.
Dallas
Houston
Minnesota
Chicago
Carolina
And maybe Buffalo and Detroit. And possibly Cleveland depending on what they do tomorrow night.
I like this. But I am currently very cautious about my optimism surrounding this team. I think the Bucs are better than people thought, so I don't take that win lightly. And what they had to overcome to get the win against the Steelers says a lot of good things about this team as well. But I still think they are largely untested. How they play tonight against the Browns and next week against the Rams will say a lot. If they win both of those, I think they are in the upper tier of NFC teams, alongside (in no particular order) the Saints, Packers, and Seahawks. If they go 1-1, I would tentatively put them low in the top half of the NFC. I guess we'll know in about a week or so.
I do like that, as of this moment, they have the second best record in the league, just behind the Pats. But being realistic, even if they do win the next 2 and get to 5-0, they still have a long way to go before being anywhere near the same caliber is New England.
EDIT: Looking at their schedule, they are easily set up to be the most overhyped team in the NFL by mid-season if they do manage to beat the Browns and Rams. Their next 3 games are against the Redskins, Panthers, and Cards. They could easily be 8-0 by the time that run is over. The problem is, their schedule is very backloaded, so even if they manage to get to 7-1 or 8-0, I think they will likely have a losing or even record in the last 8.
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Christian McCaffrey was a BEAST yesterday. The Panthers aren't getting much press, but he is putting up yards from scrimmage numbers that haven't been seen since Jim Brown. If he keeps this up, he will be in the MVP mix by the end of the season.
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Well, people are already wanting to crown him MVP, so I don't know about them/him not getting much press.
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Christian McCaffrey was a BEAST yesterday. The Panthers aren't getting much press, but he is putting up yards from scrimmage numbers that haven't been seen since Jim Brown. If he keeps this up, he will be in the MVP mix by the end of the season.
Not the prototypical back that would garner the MVP accolades which makes it even a better story.
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OK, I know it's still early. But I'm starting to feel like the '9ers have something. That was far from a perfect game. But it was an impressive win.
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OK, I know it's still early. But I'm starting to feel like the '9ers have something. That was far from a perfect game. But it was an impressive win.
The RB's had a great game. They torched the Browns' D.
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For sure. The only concerns I saw last night:
1. Their new long snapper needs some more reps. In a close game, you need those FGs.
2. Even aside from the missed FG's, they definitely left some points on the field that they should have had. Mind you, I'm not complaining about not having enough points in a game they won 31-3. I'm just saying that they need to tighten up and execute on plays where the opportunity is there for the taking, and not do things like drop passes or Jimmy G miss open receivers. I just want to see a bit more polish.
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There were some bad drops. Late in the game he hit that one guy in perfect stride for what should've been a TD.
I forgot about the FGs. What a mess. :lol
I'm rooting for the 9'ers as I'd like to see Jimmy G succeed there. They just need to keep building and improving.
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Yeah, I'm hoping that as they keep playing together with this core, they will keep building. They certainly have the pieces in place to do that.
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King, TAC, Bosk... might as well join the group discussing the leagues unbeaten teams. :D
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Yeah, just two left..
The Pats have played literally the easiest schedule so far. I mean, they have played nobody, save for the Bills, who have really improved under McDermott. But even then...it's Buffalo.
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Been here before. I want to see how we play in December. That's normally an indication except for last year.
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I'm not sold on the 9ers until they play a good team. Just like I wasn't sold on Dallas when they played shitty teams the first 3 weeks and everybody thought they were good. :lol
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I'm not sold on the 9ers until they play a good team. Just like I wasn't sold on Dallas when they played shitty teams the first 3 weeks and everybody thought they were good. :lol
Yeah, I'm right there with you. But I'm feeling a lot more sold on their defense, at least. And their run game. I'm not sold on them as a complete team. But I think I have seen enough to feel like the praise those to pieces are getting is legitimate. I'm curious to see how they perform against the Rams this week. And I'm very curious to see how they perform with Juszczyk now out 4-6 weeks. He is SO key to what they do well on offense.
What's funny to me in seeing all kinds of stories about that game and what it supposedly "means" is that it would appear the a lot of folks around the NFL had that Monday night game penciled in as the expected coronation of Mayfield and the Browns as the next big thing, and instead it served as the coronation for the 49ers defense as one of the most feared in the league right now.
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How good the 49ers are still remains to be seen of course, but 4-0 is 4-0, and they are in good position to make a run for a playoff spot. Their four games vs the Rams and Seahawks will tell us a lot.
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Nerf dual, WTF?? :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRquDYJITpc
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Nerf dual, WTF?? :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRquDYJITpc
That is GLORIOUS!!
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Nerf dual, WTF?? :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRquDYJITpc
That is GLORIOUS!!
Chase Winovich looks like that dude that stands around in his underwear in Times Square.
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Tonight should be a pretty good beat down by the Pats. My Giants are very very banged up. Not that I would have given them much chance if they were healthy, but I'd be more hopefuly for a good game if they were. Now, I'm guessing 35-7 type of game. Pats D is too good and our defense is swiss cheese.
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I'll apologize in person.
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I take that back. To quote Tim, "Our offense blows."
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Jared Stidham no longer has the only TD pass against the Pats this year. :lol
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:lol
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:lol at least its been worth watching. My friends are so excited, but I just see the Pats offense really struggling and sloppy the first half while the Giants just look overall terrible. Brady doesn't lose at home with the lead at half and they don't lose to rookie QBs. It'll take a miracle to come back the second half. I'm glad this has at least been entertaining though.
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Tonight should be a pretty good beat down by the Pats. My Giants are very very banged up. Not that I would have given them much chance if they were healthy, but I'd be more hopefuly for a good game if they were. Now, I'm guessing 35-7 type of game. Pats D is too good and our defense is swiss cheese.
The maddening thing about being both a Pats fan and a Giants fan. That was a better game for the Giants than it had any right to be, and that was not the game that Bill wanted his club to turn in on ANY Sunday, and yet... look at the actual score and your predicted score.
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That 7 points was thanks to a Brady fumble, I was pretty spot on and it was only a sloppy first half by NE's offense that gave it a closeness to start. The second half played out exactly as expected.
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Tonight should be a pretty good beat down by the Pats. My Giants are very very banged up. Not that I would have given them much chance if they were healthy, but I'd be more hopefuly for a good game if they were. Now, I'm guessing 35-7 type of game. Pats D is too good and our defense is swiss cheese.
The maddening thing about being both a Pats fan and a Giants fan. That was a better game for the Giants than it had any right to be, and that was not the game that Bill wanted his club to turn in on ANY Sunday, and yet... look at the actual score and your predicted score.
That was the sort of game NE occasionally loses. They're not strangers to playing to the level of their opponent, and this was the sort of game they might lose on a bizarre kick return or untimely pick six. The fact that theyr'e winning even the sloppy games thanks to D is encouraging to me. My hunch is that when we finally see them play a quality team we'll see good Patriots football. Until then we see them beating ugly teams ugly, and probably dropping one or two along the way. I woudln't rule out an upset by NYJ.
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That was the sort of game NE occasionally loses. They're not strangers to playing to the level of their opponent, and this was the sort of game they might lose on a bizarre kick return or untimely pick six.
Yeah, that's how it seemed to be shaping up.
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Funny that in a copy cat league such as the NFL, no other team tries to copy the Pats. There should be a new paradigm shift called "Copy Pats". :lol
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Funny that in a copy cat league such as the NFL, no other team tries to copy the Pats. There should be a new paradigm shift called "Copy Pats". :lol
That's an interesting point. Much of what they do is repeatable by other teams. You can't run out and draft another TB12, and you're unlikely to find a better game manager than Bill, but everything else is doable.
Plan around what you have rather than hire for what you want.
Bring in football players rather than exceptional athletes.
Focus on value rather than star power.
Don't tolerate asshats.
Hire from within to maintain culture.
Don't be afraid to break with convention.
Find uses for great players who've lost a step.
Don't gamble with high value picks.
It really doesn't seem like there are any other teams in the league that can or will do these things. I suspect the biggest hurdle is getting to a point where you can begin. You can bring in a Darrel Revis or a Randy Moss when you're offering a solid bet for a ring and a second chance. Cleveland doesn't have that to offer. You can hire excellent coaches from within when you've already got excellent coaching but not before. A new, young coach who loses a game after a 4th and 2 isn't likely to get many more chances, so he's less likely to be unconventional. But, somebody like Pete Carroll or Andy Reid should be able to pull it off.
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There's one other thing: have an owner that is tolerant of the ramp up to that plateau. When you have asshat owners that measure their teams success on "jersey sales", you tend to get teams like the Browns and the Cowboys.
In my view there are only a handful of owners that are capable of letting that kind of plan fully form.
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There's one other thing: have an owner that is tolerant of the ramp up to that plateau. When you have asshat owners that measure their teams success on "jersey sales", you tend to get teams like the Browns and the Cowboys.
In my view there are only a handful of owners that are capable of letting that kind of plan fully form.
It's funny you mention Dallas because one of the few coaches I can think of that seemed to do what NE does was Jimmy Johnson.
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Exactly. Jimmy Johnson created a culture that was conducive to winning no matter what it took. Too bad Jerry Jones' ego was threatened by the superior football mind of his head coach.
It's also interesting that BB and JJ have been close friends for a long time. They truly are two of a kind.
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Exactly. Jimmy Johnson created a culture that was conducive to winning no matter what it took. Too bad Jerry Jones' ego was threatened by the superior football mind of his head coach.
It's also interesting that BB and JJ have been close friends for a long time. They truly are two of a kind.
Wasn't aware that they were close friends, but it certainly doesn't surprise me.
They have some commonalities and they had some differences. Clearly they both created a winning attitude. They're both willing to think outside the box and utilize the talent they have. (Converting Haley to DE certainly comes to mind.) They both make it very clear from the get-go that if your'e a problem you're gone, particularly if you're a fumbler. (I still think Jimmy kept a sacrificial jackass on the roster each year just to be able to scare the bejeezus out of the rest of the team.) And I think it says a lot that as soon as Jimmy was replaced by a player's coach the whole thing collapsed. At the same time I see differences in style. Has Bill ever been one for screaming, profanity filled tirades on the flights home?* Jimmy's were legendary to the point that even Buddy Rich would be appalled. I'm not sure Bill would have tolerated some of the antics, either. Even those coming from 88. My hunch is that if somebody, even Tom Brady, stabs a teammate in the throat he's going to be gone sooner rather than later.
That said, it's impossible to know how much of this is on Jimmy vs Jerry.
*Serious question. Does anybody know?
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Jimmy Johnson was on Cowherd's show a few months ago and mentioned that he and Belichick talk pretty often (or something like that), so I figured they were friends.
I also think it was very smart that Johnson said that in his coaching days, no one was allowed to call a timeout except him. Not an assistant coach, not Troy Aikman, no one but him. I see teams waste so many timeouts that it boggles the mind. Like when a QB is late getting a play early in the 3rd quarter on a 3rd and 14 and he calls a timeout. So stupid. The odds of converting that are low anyway, and in a close game at the end, timeouts are extremely valuable especially if you are behind by a score and need them to stop the clock so you can the ball back. I am surprised more coaches don't install that kind of rule.
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Jimmy Johnson was on Cowherd's show a few months ago and mentioned that he and Belichick talk pretty often (or something like that), so I figured they were friends.
I also think it was very smart that Johnson said that in his coaching days, no one was allowed to call a timeout except him. Not an assistant coach, not Troy Aikman, no one but him. I see teams waste so many timeouts that it boggles the mind. Like when a QB is late getting a play early in the 3rd quarter on a 3rd and 14 and he calls a timeout. So stupid. The odds of converting that are low anyway, and in a close game at the end, timeouts are extremely valuable especially if you are behind by a score and need them to stop the clock so you can the ball back. I am surprised more coaches don't install that kind of rule.
That kind of game management is one of the reasons I'm such a Belichick fan. Last night there was a call that most people would have challenged and won. Bill didn't challenge it, and I suspect it's because of the cost/benefit approach. The timeout was more important than the first down they would have gained on the drive. Better to punt than risk a valuable timeout.
Having said that, I'd probably trust Troy to know when not to call a timeout, and I'd definitely trust Darren Woodson. That's something that can be coached, provided the player isn't a dumbass. I don't disagree with his reasoning at all, but I wouldn't be quite so dogmatic about it. The coach can't see everything that happens.
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Troy Aikman Fan Club President reporting for duty!
TAC actually stands for Troy Aikman Champion. :lol
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That kind of game management is one of the reasons I'm such a Belichick fan. Last night there was a call that most people would have challenged and won. Bill didn't challenge it, and I suspect it's because of the cost/benefit approach. The timeout was more important than the first down they would have gained on the drive. Better to punt than risk a valuable timeout.
Agreed. It's like these nitwit coaches that challenge a non-catch to turn into a catch so they get a 2nd and 3 instead of a 2nd and 10 two minutes into the game. :lol :lol
Having said that, I'd probably trust Troy to know when not to call a timeout, and I'd definitely trust Darren Woodson. That's something that can be coached, provided the player isn't a dumbass. I don't disagree with his reasoning at all, but I wouldn't be quite so dogmatic about it. The coach can't see everything that happens.
Perhaps, but I like taking the hard line approach instead of chancing a screw-up. His approach basically said, "if we are going to waste a timeout, it is gonna be my fault."
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I was roaming around on youtube, and I stumbled upon a MNF game between Denver and Pittsburgh from October '79. They were advertising a Thursday night game between the Chargers and Raiders on ABC. I always thought that Thursday games (with the exception of Thanksgiving games) was a newer thing. I don't remember Thursday night games when I was a kid growing up in the 80's, but everyone knows how memory goes sometimes. Does anyone know if Thursday night games were a thing at one point, disappeared and then came back again? Or, were they around the whole time, and I simply forgot?
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Here's the history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thursday_Night_Football
Wiping away the cobwebs.....I think they only did two or three TNF games a year from 79-86. I kinda recall a Steelers-Oilers game, and that's it. As much as I followed all sports back then, it just never interested me. Not much interest now, though the match ups have been better the past couple of years.
Why they can't give both teams a bye the preceeding Sunday is beyond me.
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Here's the history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thursday_Night_Football
Wiping away the cobwebs.....I think they only did two or three TNF games a year from 79-86. I kinda recall a Steelers-Oilers game, and that's it. As much as I followed all sports back then, it just never interested me. Not much interest now, though the match ups have been better the past couple of years.
Why they can't give both teams a bye the preceeding Sunday is beyond me.
Thanks for info!
As far as giving teams a bye the previous sunday goes, I don't think that would work since they'd have to turn around and play the sunday after the thursday game. However, a scenario close to that would work out very good. Let's say that a team has a thursday night game in week 3. They play on a sunday on week 2, then their week 3 game is the thursday night game after the sunday/monday games of week 3. Then they have a bye week on week 4. Each team would get a week and a half to prepare for the thursday game, then they would have another week 1/2 off until week 5. A couple of the biggest complaints that fans have of the Thursday night games is that the teams aren't prepared (Game Plan) after having played just a few days before, and many of the players haven't fully healed and are tired from playing a game a few days before. This would solve both of those issues.
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Yes...of course their one bye week would be the prior Sunday, and then they would not play until two Sundays later.
And....no TNF until around week 5, and none after week 12 or 13 (other than Turkey Day). Then they could do the old fashioned Saturday afternoon doubleheaders like the old days....which helped one survive the family gatherings at that time of year ;)
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Pretty damn stoked for the Saints. I really hope it was just the hot weather hindering our OL and DL today and that we come out more aggressively against Chicago. If we win that, the Cardinals and Falcons look very beatable in the two games afterward and Drew Brees could be returning to an 8-1 team.
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And the 'Fins-Potatoes game ends up with the most exciting finish :lol......of course, it would come down to a failed 2 point conversion.
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WTF is up with the Cowboys?
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The Jets look like a completely different team with Darnold on the field.
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Another week, still undefeated. :D
I still don't think the Niners are some mega juggernaut, but beating the Rams by 13 points certainly puts me at ease after the teams faced in our first four games.
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Another week, still undefeated. :D
I still don't think the Niners are some mega juggernaut, but beating the Rams by 13 points certainly puts me at ease after the teams faced in our first four games.
I don't think the Rams are an elite NFC team anyway.
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HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS?!!!
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They’re back from the dead! Still plenty of room for improvement, but with a healthy Darnold, the Jets actually feel like an NFL team.
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I'd like to congratulate the Patriots on winning the AFC and making another Super Bowl.
Meanwhile, the NFC is loaded. The Saints, 49ers, Packers and Seahawks all look like legit top contenders.
Russell Wilson is the NFL MVP at this point.
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Question about the Steelers/Chargers game and the punt/fumble that just happened. Aren't they supposed to give him some room to catch?
EDIT - they are huddling about it...so that answers that.
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I got bored waiting for them to finalize the call so I started looking at Facebook. When I stopped watching they'd said it was gonna be Chargers ball but I didn't see if they'd assessed 15 yards for fair catch interference. If not, I can't see how that'd not be a bullshit call.
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Facebook??
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My mom made me delete my MySpace account.
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I'd like to congratulate the Patriots on winning the AFC and making another Super Bowl.
Just checked the rest of their schedule, and.... this sounds about right.
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Still too early to say that Kev. KC is really banged up.
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5-0. Legit. As banged up as the 49ers are, this was a BIG win.
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Holy shit. I knew the Dolphins were bad but I didn't realize they were this bad. If you combined all of the points the Dolphins had scored during their first four games and pitted that total against the team that scored the fewest out of their first four opponents they'd still lose by four points.
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Really enjoyed the London game against the Bucs. I couldn't be happier with Allen's performance, interested to see how things play out with Cam.
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Still too early to say that Kev. KC is really banged up.
Right. Seems the AFC CG will definitely be in Foxboro, but the Chiefs are still formidable. It comes down to who plays the best in ONE game.
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HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS?!!!
STFU :p
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Dallas is in a bad way right now, at least from a short term POV. What they really need is a statement game. If they were to play a really good team next week I'd bet on them. A trip to Seattle would do them good. They're not going to get that and I think there's a good chance they fall apart on Garrett like they did with Wade Phillips. From a long term POV a dominating performance over Seattle would only do what always happens with Cowboy's coaches and provide just enough hope to keep them around.
The reality is that it's highly unlikely that Garret survives the offseason. When that becomes certain there's good value in sacking him mid-season. Scare the players and evaluate the next yes-man to take over the hot-seat.
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Panthers defense is really coming together. 7 sacks and 7 turnovers forced (including 5 interceptions) against Tampa Bay.
Kyle Allen becomes the first QB in NFL history to win his first 5 starts, without throwing an INT.
This is turning into a strange, but satisfying season thus far.
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Don't worry, Hef. You'll be cured of that "satisfying" feeling in about 2 weeks.
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Don't worry, Hef. You'll be cured of that "satisfying" feeling in about 2 weeks.
I knew you would say something.
We'll definitely find out what we're made of.
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We'll definitely find out what we're made of.
Yeah, in all seriousness, so will we. We should be closer to healthy, and the Panthers should be a good test for this stage in the season.
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We'll definitely find out what we're made of.
Yeah, in all seriousness, so will we. We should be closer to healthy, and the Panthers should be a good test for this stage in the season.
My initial prediction is honestly the 49ers in a close win. Maybe 20-17, or something like that.
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Trying to take my own fandom out of it, that feels about right to me.
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Still too early to say that Kev. KC is really banged up.
Right. Seems the AFC CG will definitely be in Foxboro, but the Chiefs are still formidable. It comes down to who plays the best in ONE game.
Well sure, but it is hard to imagine both the Chiefs defense and offensive line magically improving in the next few months, and they aren't winning a road game in the playoffs against anyone with a defense that bad and without being able to protect Mahomes.
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I still feel like after the Pats, they're the team to beat, unless Houston can sustain some serious noise.
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It may be too early to tell, but I'm not completely ready to write off the Bills or Texans as legitimate contenders yet.
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I have a hard time taking Houston too seriously because Bill O'Brien is such a dunce cap, but DeShaun Watson is something else and could definitely carry that team a long way.
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I'm very glad the Saints only have to play Pat Mahomes and Deshaun Watson a total of twice every four years. I used to fear Cam Newton like that but his salad days seem to have passed and he makes pretty bad decisions at times. It's also relieving that Jameis Winston is a head case whose ego undermines him pretty regularly.
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Refs just handed the Packers the game.
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What a fuckin sham. TWO intentionally rigged illegal use of hands penalties to bail out the sorry ass Packers on failed fourth quarter third downs. I almost wanna give up watching this shit again cuz I'm just waiting for the Saints to get jobbed again this year if they end up playing a playoff game against one of the NFL's golden boy teams.
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Refs just handed the Packers the game.
LOL Booger Macfarland. "Let the people know what happened here tonight. Tell the world!"
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What a fuckin sham. TWO intentionally rigged illegal use of hands penalties to bail out the sorry ass Packers on failed fourth quarter third downs. I almost wanna give up watching this shit again cuz I'm just waiting for the Saints to get jobbed again this year if they end up playing a playoff game against one of the NFL's golden boy teams.
Intentionally rigged, eh? So why do you even watch the game? If the outcome is predetermined what difference does it make to you? How can you cheer a Saint's victory, or more importantly a Cowboy's loss, if it's merely the mechanization of Roger Goodel and a couple of Hollywood writers?
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Refs just handed the Packers the game.
LOL Booger Macfarland. "Let the people know what happened here tonight. Tell the world!"
If things start to change from here (although let’s face it they won’t), that call will become iconic.
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What a fuckin sham. TWO intentionally rigged illegal use of hands penalties to bail out the sorry ass Packers on failed fourth quarter third downs. I almost wanna give up watching this shit again cuz I'm just waiting for the Saints to get jobbed again this year if they end up playing a playoff game against one of the NFL's golden boy teams.
Intentionally rigged, eh? So why do you even watch the game? If the outcome is predetermined what difference does it make to you? How can you cheer a Saint's victory, or more importantly a Cowboy's loss, if it's merely the mechanization of Roger Goodel and a couple of Hollywood writers?
I don't care enough to argue with you.
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Refs just handed the Packers the game.
LOL Booger Macfarland. "Let the people know what happened here tonight. Tell the world!"
If things start to change from here (although let’s face it they won’t), that call will become iconic.
If the Saints debacle didn't convince the league to invent six million dollar bionic referees then it's not going to happen.
To be fair I think they were bad calls. I'm really just laughing at a man named Booger treating the unfortunate conclusion of a football game like some epic deep-state conspiracy.
And to be honest, I think the announcers often make things worse than they are. On both of those calls I thought I saw hands to the face when shown at normal speed. It was only slowed down that you could see he had him by the collar. And on the second one it looked like he hit the facemask on the way to grabbing the collar. Were they the right call in retrospect? Nope. Did they seem like the right call at the time? Yep. Is a guy named Booger treating it like a cover-up and making BF freakout? Yowza.
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I'm more suspicious than I ever have been that this league could be fixed after that Saints Rams game last year, and the officials determining the outcome of yet another game in favor of the beloved Packers against a team that next to no one cares about certainly does nothing to change that for me. I know a lot of fans don't like to hear that take because we all invest a lot of time in this league. I'm not even saying it's fixed for sure, but it just feels like there's so much potential evidence that it would be naive to deny the possibility.
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I'm more suspicious than I ever have been that this league could be fixed after that Saints Rams game last year, and the officials determining the outcome of yet another game in favor of the beloved Packers against a team that next to no one cares about certainly does nothing to change that for me. I know a lot of fans don't like to hear that take because we all invest a lot of time in this league. I'm not even saying it's fixed for sure, but it just feels like there's so much potential evidence that it would be naive to deny the possibility.
The number one factor in any conspiracy is always human error, and it's the thing that always gets the least consideration. Referees make mistakes just like anybody else. Nine times out of ten they all average out. Every once in a while it happens at a point that can't be mitigated. It sucks, but it is what it is. If I ever thought that the games were fixed I wouldn't waste my time watching them. Soap operas have better plots and hot chicks, to boot.
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When all/nearly all "errors" favor one team it stops being errors and becomes premeditated. Two hands to the face penalties where the hand never touched the face aside from a tenth of a second grazing, a fully extended arm across an opponent's chest pushing them down, and a catch with clear possession followed by a football move which was called a catch on the field that suddenly has enough contrary evidence to be overturned on review?
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It keeps getting better. Here's an uncalled 13 on the field.
(https://saintsreport.com/attachments/screenshot_20191014-233857_facebook-jpg.125495/)
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I don't think there is a conspiracy; I think NFL officiating just sucks.
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I don't think there is a conspiracy; I think NFL officiating just sucks.
Agree. Add so many new changes the rules committees add and their job is getting harder and harder. It's a confluence of issues piling up.
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I think King is right; it IS getting to be an almost impossible job. There are so many subjectivities at this point that it's getting harder and harder to replicate the results from play to play, to quarter to quarter, to game to game. Yeah, we talk about the blatant ones - the Saints/Rams call last year was about as blatant as it gets - but for every one of those, there are a 100 that could legit go either way, and I think we've gone too far away from the gut call in the moment. It's stunning to me how often the refs, in real time, get it right. We can't lose that in the wake of what I call the "artificial exactness" that "instant replay" seems to promise.
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I don't think anyone expects perfection, but some of these missed or bad calls in recent memory are so glaring, and when they happen at the end of games and decide outcomes, it gives a bad look. And the NFL acts like they don't care (which they don't). Heck, look at the new rule about being able to challenge PI. I don't like being able to challenge that, but there have been countless examples already where something should have been changed, yet they went with what was called on the field, almost like the NFL is pissed that they were forced to implement it and have made it clear to not change anything challenged unless it is extremely blatant (and even that is not a guarantee, as we saw in the NYG/NE last week where a clear as day PI at the end of the game still wasn't called despite being challenged and being extremely obvious on the replay).
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I think King is right; it IS getting to be an almost impossible job. There are so many subjectivities at this point that it's getting harder and harder to replicate the results from play to play, to quarter to quarter, to game to game. Yeah, we talk about the blatant ones - the Saints/Rams call last year was about as blatant as it gets - but for every one of those, there are a 100 that could legit go either way, and I think we've gone too far away from the gut call in the moment. It's stunning to me how often the refs, in real time, get it right. We can't lose that in the wake of what I call the "artificial exactness" that "instant replay" seems to promise.
Yeah, it's amazing to me that they get so many right. And we saw a couple of times last night where ESPN's hired referee pointed out that they made a great call there.
And I still think the Boogers and the Aikamans are part of the problem. I really like Troy (and Booger's actually not bad now that he's in the booth as the color guy), but not a game goes by where he's not "sickened" by the officiating. Is the officiating actually worse now than when he was playing? I seriously doubt it. Most football fans only know what the talking heads tell them, and riling them up all the time over every bad call doesn't help matters.
And for the folks who think Vince McMahan is calling the shots in the NFL, if the games were truly rigged don't you think the NFL wold have made damn sure Troy never called another game?
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Not to litigate SB49 again, but I will go to my grave swearing that most wouldn't have had a problem with the call at the end of the game (Wilson throwing it from the 1 instead of handing it to Lynch) if Collinsworth hadn't gone on and on and on about it like it was the worst play call in the history of football.
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Not to litigate SB49 again, but I will go to my grave swearing that most wouldn't have had a problem with the call at the end of the game (Wilson throwing it from the 1 instead of handing it to Lynch) if Collinsworth hadn't gone on and on and on about it like it was the worst play call in the history of football.
Oh, hell yeah. Couldn't agree more. Collinsworth had no clue what the rationale for that decision was when he started droning on about it. Al Michaels actually tried to point it out to him and he didn't catch it.
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I think King is right; it IS getting to be an almost impossible job. There are so many subjectivities at this point that it's getting harder and harder to replicate the results from play to play, to quarter to quarter, to game to game. Yeah, we talk about the blatant ones - the Saints/Rams call last year was about as blatant as it gets - but for every one of those, there are a 100 that could legit go either way, and I think we've gone too far away from the gut call in the moment. It's stunning to me how often the refs, in real time, get it right. We can't lose that in the wake of what I call the "artificial exactness" that "instant replay" seems to promise.
Yeah, it's amazing to me that they get so many right. And we saw a couple of times last night where ESPN's hired referee pointed out that they made a great call there.
And I still think the Boogers and the Aikamans are part of the problem. I really like Troy (and Booger's actually not bad now that he's in the booth as the color guy), but not a game goes by where he's not "sickened" by the officiating. Is the officiating actually worse now than when he was playing? I seriously doubt it. Most football fans only know what the talking heads tell them, and riling them up all the time over every bad call doesn't help matters.
And for the folks who think Vince McMahan is calling the shots in the NFL, if the games were truly rigged don't you think the NFL wold have made damn sure Troy never called another game?
There are literally 100's of examples of why the NFL can't possibly be fixed (just make your list of "shoulda-made-its" and "gotta-make-its" that have flamed out and you're well on your way there) but I'm starting to agree with the culpability of the announcers. I've long ragged on Jim Nance as the worst offender of those that latch onto the "story line du jour" and pound it into the ground, facts be damned.
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Or "deplorables!"
Oh, wait...
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A few talk shows already mentioned this this morning, but an "eye in the sky" boss ref who has 20 seconds to review and negate a bad call would fix everything.
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A few talk shows already mentioned this this morning, but an "eye in the sky" boss ref who has 20 seconds to review and negate a bad call would fix everything.
Nah. Mistakes wills till happen. Announcers will still highlight them. Fans will still scream that it's rigged.
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HD replays has hurt the game big time.
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HD replays has hurt the game big time.
I agree. 100%.
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Not to litigate SB49 again, but I will go to my grave swearing that most wouldn't have had a problem with the call at the end of the game (Wilson throwing it from the 1 instead of handing it to Lynch) if Collinsworth hadn't gone on and on and on about it like it was the worst play call in the history of football.
I don't believe that Collinsworth had anything to do with the narrative of how that play is viewed. I mean we all have eyes.
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Not to litigate SB49 again, but I will go to my grave swearing that most wouldn't have had a problem with the call at the end of the game (Wilson throwing it from the 1 instead of handing it to Lynch) if Collinsworth hadn't gone on and on and on about it like it was the worst play call in the history of football.
I don't believe that Collinsworth had anything to do with the narrative of how that play is viewed. I mean we all have eyes.
Yes. But most of us that use our eyes and our brains at the same time recognized that it was a perfectly fine play.
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Yeah, I actually thought it was the greatest play call ever!
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I don't think there is a conspiracy; I think NFL officiating just sucks.
Agree. Add so many new changes the rules committees add and their job is getting harder and harder. It's a confluence of issues piling up.
Exactly. Too many rules complicating the shit out of everything.
What a fuckin sham. TWO intentionally rigged illegal use of hands penalties to bail out the sorry ass Packers on failed fourth quarter third downs. I almost wanna give up watching this shit again cuz I'm just waiting for the Saints to get jobbed again this year if they end up playing a playoff game against one of the NFL's golden boy teams.
Really? As I recall, the Ain'ts put themselves in that position with horrible play calling on the first 3 downs of that final series. They were in perfect position for the go ahead TD. Then, they expected a bail out on 4th down. Yeah, the officiating sucked, but there's nothing that can be done about it. Teams still have to own what they do on the field for the entire game. It's called situational football. Same goes for the Lions last night. They were leading 13-0 at one point. Teams can't put all the blame on the refs because they're trying to eek out a win in the last 2:00.
Dallas had 6 taken off the board because of a bad offensive PI call that actually wasn't PI. As it turns out, if they had the 4 extra points instead of just 3, they would've won the game. But hey, they just didn't play good enough to win. That's all there is to it.
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Yeah, I actually thought it was the greatest play call ever!
It was a reasonable play call that didn't work out. It's really that simple. Collilnsworth spent a few minutes calling it the worst play call in the history of organized sports and unfortunately a lot of people believed him. Like I said, he didn't understand the rationale behind it, though Al Michaels seemed to. He judged it solely on the basis of the outcome. A lot of people are geared towards making that same mistake.
You can stand on 20 and lose. If you hit on 20 you might actually win, but you're still a dumbass.
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Yeah, I actually thought it was the greatest play call ever!
It was a reasonable play call that didn't work out. It's really that simple. Collilnsworth spent a few minutes calling it the worst play call in the history of organized sports and unfortunately a lot of people believed him. Like I said, he didn't understand the rationale behind it, though Al Michaels seemed to. He judged it solely on the basis of the outcome. A lot of people are geared towards making that same mistake.
You can stand on 20 and lose. If you hit on 20 you might actually win, but you're still a dumbass.
Haha, exactly.
Leaving aside the fact that Lynch was bad that season in short yardage situations, the Seahawks only had 1 timeout left, so by throwing it on 2nd down, they were leaving it open to where they could throw or run on both 3rd and 4th down. Had they run it on 2nd and got stopped, they would have had to take a timeout, and then you only had the option of passing on 3rd down (otherwise you risk the clock running out and not getting a play off on 4th down if needed).
Dallas had 6 taken off the board because of a bad offensive PI call that actually wasn't PI. As it turns out, if they had the 4 extra points instead of just 3, they would've won the game. But hey, they just didn't play good enough to win. That's all there is to it.
Not necessarily, as the game plays out differently if Dallas gets 7 there instead of 3. :P
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Yeah, I actually thought it was the greatest play call ever!
It was a reasonable play call that didn't work out. It's really that simple. Collilnsworth spent a few minutes calling it the worst play call in the history of organized sports and unfortunately a lot of people believed him. Like I said, he didn't understand the rationale behind it, though Al Michaels seemed to. He judged it solely on the basis of the outcome. A lot of people are geared towards making that same mistake.
You can stand on 20 and lose. If you hit on 20 you might actually win, but you're still a dumbass.
Haha, exactly.
Leaving aside the fact that Lynch was bad that season in short yardage situations, the Seahawks only had 1 timeout left, so by throwing it on 2nd down, they were leaving it open to where they could throw or run on both 3rd and 4th down. Had they run it on 2nd and got stopped, they would have had to take a timeout, and then you only had the option of passing on 3rd down (otherwise you risk the clock running out and not getting a play off on 4th down if needed).
I think the bigger problem (and I think this was Bill's take on it) was that passing on third would have been obvious. Since he had to pass on one of the next two downs he was better off throwing on second when it wouldn't have been expected. Most coaches would have been as dumbstruck as Collinsworth by that play. Sadly for the Seahawks Bill isn't most coaches and read that all the way.
The reality is that I've never seen two coaches in a pressure cooker like the final two minutes of that game. I was just about in a state of panic trying to figure out what either team should do. That either coach was able to think rationally under that kind of pressure boggles the mind. Pete Carroll understanding the situation the way he did and managing a clock that beating down on him elevated him to top tier coach status in my book. Most coaches fall apart during that span. Pete didn't deserve to be dumped on the way he was because of Collinsworth.
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I never realized Chris Collinsworth was so influential.
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I never realized Chris Collinsworth was so influential.
Don't confuse influence with convince. He didn't have to convince anybody that it was dumb. He just had to plant the seed. Anybody can do that, and because he really does know more about the game than any of us, and we're generally hardwired to defer to expertise, he can do it a little better. Throw in the fact that it didn't work out for Seattle, thus seemingly reinforcing his opinion, and it goes even further.
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As a Packer fan, yes, the officiating was awful and truly did help Green Bay win.
But I've watched enough Packers games to tell you Green Bay gets shafted just as much as any other team.
All games are officiated poorly and its becoming so bad I truly am losing interest in watching games at this point.
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Collinsworth talks a bit about it here. He was caught in the moment more than he probably should have as someone in the booth calling the biggest sporting event of the year. He said the first thing that came to his head, and the same thing every Seahawk was saying - of course Cris is not the average fan, he is paid to give thoughtful insight and commentary. I don't want to fault him too much for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VIvsGOL5yM&feature=youtu.be&t=178
If you want to ascribe blame, it can go with Kearse for being a rag doll; or praise, it can go with Browner for treating him like one, and Butler for recognizing the play and acting accordingly.
The reality is that I've never seen two coaches in a pressure cooker like the final two minutes of that game. I was just about in a state of panic trying to figure out what either team should do. That either coach was able to think rationally under that kind of pressure boggles the mind.
Never thought about that. Watched it again just now. Pete looks like his wife just told him she was expecting sextuplets; Belichick looks like he's at McDonald's trying to figure out what to order for lunch.
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As someone who watches a lot of games in which I'm not invested, and just watch for the game, it's pretty clear that the refs aren't playing favorites. They're better than people give them credit for, and yet they make mistakes on both sides of the ball. Sometimes bad ones.
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Collinsworth talks a bit about it here. He was caught in the moment more than he probably should have as someone in the booth calling the biggest sporting event of the year. He said the first thing that came to his head, and the same thing every Seahawk was saying - of course Cris is not the average fan, he is paid to give thoughtful insight and commentary. I don't want to fault him too much for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VIvsGOL5yM&feature=youtu.be&t=178
If you want to ascribe blame, it can go with Kearse for being a rag doll; or praise, it can go with Browner for treating him like one, and Butler for recognizing the play and acting accordingly.
More than blame, I think you have to give praise to Butler, who made a great play on the ball. That said, if I had to blame anyone on Seattle, it would be Wilson. He is a great QB, but he threw the ball too out in the open. Had he thrown it low and inside to where Kearse could have caught it and then bull rushed his way in the end zone, the worst thing Butler could have done was broke up the pass. As for what Seahawks were saying, those defensive players can piss off. They loved to beat their chests about being the Legion of Boom, but they collapsed in the 4th quarter and blew a double digit lead, and then threw a fit when the offense didn't bail them out in the end. They were lucky as hell to be in that game anyway; I still have no idea how the Packers blew that NFCCG.
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More than blame, I think you have to give praise to Butler, who made a great play on the ball. That said, if I had to blame anyone on Seattle, it would be Wilson. He is a great QB, but he threw the ball too out in the open. Had he thrown it low and inside to where Kearse could have caught it...
Tyler Lockett was the target. Kearse was supposed to pick the defender, and failed miserably.
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Not so much that he failed but rather he got mugged by the most physical corner in the game. Browner beat the hell out of him.
More than blame, I think you have to give praise to Butler, who made a great play on the ball. That said, if I had to blame anyone on Seattle, it would be Wilson. He is a great QB, but he threw the ball too out in the open. Had he thrown it low and inside to where Kearse could have caught it and then bull rushed his way in the end zone, the worst thing Butler could have done was broke up the pass. As for what Seahawks were saying, those defensive players can piss off. They loved to beat their chests about being the Legion of Boom, but they collapsed in the 4th quarter and blew a double digit lead, and then threw a fit when the offense didn't bail them out in the end. They were lucky as hell to be in that game anyway; I still have no idea how the Packers blew that NFCCG.
And let's not forget how the legion of boom fell apart when they had NE backed up on the 1 foot line. Pete's failing as a coach wasn't with the play call, but rather not telling his guys to stay onside on the subsequent play. Bill coaches his players that inside of a yard or two they've got nothing to lose from a false start. Drawn the D offside, and of course if you're the D don't fall for it. Apparently PC doesn't coach that because they sure got suckered in.
And then of course started a brawl after getting shown up, keeping it classy. :lol
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drivel
It's funny that you keep calling them the Aints while your Pop Warner team can't buy a win and has only beaten glorified FCS teams and mine just keeps stackin Ws with a backup QB. Just abandon the sorry attempts at smack talk and look forward to little D's inevitable wasting of whatever talent they end up drafting with their likely very high first round pick in 2020.
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drivel
It's funny that you keep calling them the Aints while your Pop Warner team can't buy a win and has only beaten glorified FCS teams and mine just keeps stackin Ws with a backup QB. Just abandon the sorry attempts at smack talk and look forward to little D's inevitable wasting of whatever talent they end up drafting with their likely very high first round pick in 2020.
Talk about drivel. :lol It isn't my problem you can't grasp a simple concept that happens to be absolutely true. How many championships do the Ain'ts have anyway? You can only count them on one finger. Get 4 more and then you'll have room to talk trash, which you started BTW. Oh yeah, and who's headcoach was suspended for an entire season because of cheating the season before? Go back down to the valley man. :\
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Because fans like to overreact to their teams' successes partway through the season, here is...
The Case for 10-0:
49ers at Redskins: The 49ers win this easily. Although nobody is admitting it, the complete change in offensive gameplan against the Rams HAD TO be done, at least in part, because of losing both tackles and their fullback to injury. The Rams were expecting run all the way, not a quick passing offense. They were caught off guard, and were not equipped on D at all to handle it. Couple that with the fact that their offense couldn't hold the ball long enough to give the D a rest, and there was no way they were winning that game. The 49ers are depleted on offense. But they masked it well and were able to more than make up for it with their defense. They can have a merely "adequate" offense against the Redskins and still win big.
49ers vs. Panthers: The Panthers are hot, no doubt about it. BUT what they do on offense plays to the 49ers' strengths. The 49ers D can key on McCaffrey and shut down the run with their dominant front 7. Yeah, they'll give up some yards and some points. But I don't think it'll be enough for Carolina to pull out the win on the road. And their defense has been horrid. A merely average 49ers offensive performance should get it done. The main concern I have is that the 49ers special teams could come up short in a close game if Gould and the new long snapper don't get their issues hammered out.
49ers @ Cardinals: The Cards' QB is starting to find a groove. But even a short week (this is a Thursday game), I think the unit that will suffer the most for lack of preparation will be Arizona's offense. The SF D will suffocate them, and I predict a very one-sided game.
49ers vs. Seahawks: If things play out the way I think, we will have an 8-0 49ers team going up against a 7-2 Seahawks team. The '9ers will have some of their injured players back and will have a LONG stretch to prepare for this game, going from a Thursday game the previous week to a Monday night game against Seattle. This is almost like a second bye week. And as much as Shanahan likes to plan and play the cerebral game, I think this works to SF's advantage. The Seahawks are weaker on both sides of the ball than their current record indicates. And with Wilson being one of the few bright spots for them, I think the '9ers pass rush wins the day, while their run game wears down the Seattle D.
49ers vs. Cardinals: Game 2 vs. the Cards. This one on a short week again, but at home. I don't think the Cards have sufficient time to learn from the defeat 2 weeks earlier. I just don't think they are strong enough. And even though the 49ers are on a short week, I think them getting to play back to back home games makes it a lot easier.
If that all plays out, that brings them to 10-0. The biggest, and perhaps ONLY flaw I see in that logic is that it's incredibly hard to win 10 in a row, and any given team can do the unexpected in a game. Heck, Pittsburgh is awful, and the '9ers turned it over 5 times in that game! If that happens against, say, the Panthers, I don't see them climbing out of that hole. But I do think that they have a great shot at it. In terms of schedule, the strengths of this particular team, and other factors, the stars seem aligned to get there. After that, with their next 6 games being the Packers, Ravens, Saints, Falcons, Rams, and Seahawks, it is anyone's guess what their final record will be. But 10-0 getting ready to host the Packers would not shock me.
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49ers vs. Panthers: The Panthers are hot, no doubt about it. BUT what they do on offense plays to the 49ers' strengths. The 49ers D can key on McCaffrey and shut down the run with their dominant front 7. Yeah, they'll give up some yards and some points. But I don't think it'll be enough for Carolina to pull out the win on the road. And their defense has been horrid. A merely average 49ers offensive performance should get it done. The main concern I have is that the 49ers special teams could come up short in a close game if Gould and the new long snapper don't get their issues hammered out.
???
Carolinas's defense is # 1 in the NFL in sacks, and tied for 3rd in TO differential, and Luke Kuechly is tied for first in the league in tackles, while other players are among the league leaders in interceptions and sacks. Not sure how that gets them marked as "horrid". I agree that there are certainly multiple defenses that are better, but they aren't "horrid".
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drivel
It's funny that you keep calling them the Aints while your Pop Warner team can't buy a win and has only beaten glorified FCS teams and mine just keeps stackin Ws with a backup QB. Just abandon the sorry attempts at smack talk and look forward to little D's inevitable wasting of whatever talent they end up drafting with their likely very high first round pick in 2020.
Talk about drivel. :lol It isn't my problem you can't grasp a simple concept that happens to be absolutely true. How many championships do the Ain'ts have anyway? You can only count them on one finger. Get 4 more and then you'll have room to talk trash, which you started BTW. Oh yeah, and who's headcoach was suspended for an entire season because of cheating the season before? Go back down to the valley man. :\
I'll buy you a Delorean so you can go back to when your pathetic team mattered. Bragging about old titles just confirms y'all have done squat in the last 24 years. I would feel sorry for Cowboys fans since they have to go all Al Bundy and 4TDs in one game at Polk High about their Jurassic era titles but they're generally so smug and delusional that it becomes entertaining just watching them foam at the mouth about stuff that happened during Clinton's first term. Tell me, what do you actually hang your hat on this side of 2000?
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Sorry for oversimplifying. I haven't done any in-depth analysis of their D. But I'm getting a lot of that from the fact that they've given up MORE than double the amount of points the 49ers defense has. And they have not exactly been playing against offenses that light up the score board. But we'll see. Over the next 5 games, the Carolina game is the one I'm least sure of.
EDIT: Josh, what is your issue? You don't need to come in here and bait people just because you don't like their team. You are WAY out of line here.
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I know several people that have made an entire career bragging about old titties.
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I'm spoiled. That is all.
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Sorry for oversimplifying. I haven't done any in-depth analysis of their D. But I'm getting a lot of that from the fact that they've given up MORE than double the amount of points the 49ers defense has. And they have not exactly been playing against offenses that light up the score board. But we'll see. Over the next 5 games, the Carolina game is the one I'm least sure of.
I don't have any fundamental quibbles with your assessment, and I'd actually like to see Jimmy G. do well before he returns to New England, to take over for Brady, but I respectfully think you might be underestimating that Seattle team. I wouldn't count out any team coached by Pete Carroll and manned by Russell Wilson.
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That Seattle-SF is going to be great. I didn't realize this stretch of the SF schedule is so putrid.
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...and I'd actually like to see Jimmy G. do well before he returns to New England, to take over for Brady...
:lol You mean right around the time Mike Portnoy returns to Dream Theater to take over for Mike Mangini?
...but I respectfully think you might be underestimating that Seattle team. I wouldn't count out any team coached by Pete Carroll and manned by Russell Wilson.
I don't think I'm underestimating them at all. I'm NOT counting them out. But I did say why I think the 49ers are the better team, and I stand by that. Against 4 common opponents, the 49ers performed better on both sides of the ball. That doesn't indicate that the 49ers are a lock. But I like their chances. Show me something that contradicts what I wrote.
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That Seattle-SF is going to be great. I didn't realize this stretch of the SF schedule is so putrid.
Yup. Even if they ultimately don't end up being as good as everyone thinks they are right now, barring the wheels completely falling off, they are virtually a lock to get into the playoffs. I don't see them being any worse over that stretch than 8-2, and I think 10-0 is a realistic possibility. Either way, that's a great start and should give them an edge getting in even if they hit a rough patch in the latter part of the schedule. Based on how good I think they are, I'm predicting a final record of 13-3. A win plus or minus wouldn't not surprise me.
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...and I'd actually like to see Jimmy G. do well before he returns to New England, to take over for Brady...
:lol You mean right around the time Mike Portnoy returns to Dream Theater to take over for Mike Mangini?
Hey, you're closer to the band than I am. I'm not starting any rumours! :) :) :)
...but I respectfully think you might be underestimating that Seattle team. I wouldn't count out any team coached by Pete Carroll and manned by Russell Wilson.
I don't think I'm underestimating them at all. I'm NOT counting them out. But I did say why I think the 49ers are the better team, and I stand by that. Against 4 common opponents, the 49ers performed better on both sides of the ball. That doesn't indicate that the 49ers are a lock. But I like their chances. Show me something that contradicts what I wrote.
Oh, nothing contradicts. I'm not arguing with you, but you did say you were least comfortable with the Carolina game. I think I'd be least comfortable with the Seattle game. I think Seattle is better at the intangibles than Carolina, and I think less things have to go right for Seattle to eke out a win than for Carolina. Put it this way: if it was the Patriots playing either team, I'd be way more worried about Seattle, even if on paper, NE beats both teams fairly convincingly.
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I'm not sure whether Seattle or Carolina are the better team. All things being equal, I'd be more afraid of playing a team with Carroll coaching and Wilson under center than whoever Carolina has. But I feel like, given the current rosters, Carolina matches up better against the 49ers than Seattle does.
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I know several people that have made an entire career bragging about old titties.
My titties are 46 1/2 years old, and even though they tend to sag (among other things) more than they used to, I'm quite proud of them!!!
Or, did you mean old titles?
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So...is Buffalo any good? I know their record says so. But as someone who hasn't watched them at all and hasn't really heard anything out here about how they have been playing, I have no idea. Even judging from the scores of their games, it's hard to say. They seem to have just barely beaten some bad teams. But then again, the score was very close when they lost to the Pats. Any thoughts from those more in the know?
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My opinion? Good not great. They're going to have a decent record this year, because they have a decent schedule, but I wasn't blown away by them in the one game I saw (against the Pats). I know what the score was, but that's not always the be-all, end-all. Did losing Allen hurt them or inspire them to be better (that's my take)? Was the Titans game indicative of their strength, or indicative of a 2-3 team under performing, as they arguably have all year?
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Their defense is excellent. No QB though so they can make the playoffs but won't go far.
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The Bills are a 9- or 10-win team that will likely get knocked out quickly in the first round (unless they face the Texans and Bill O'Doofus throws up on himself).
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Mahomes looks to have dislocated his knee on a QB sneak, is done for the night, and likely for a while. Not good for the Chiefs or the league.
Meanwhile, the Chiefs shitty defense has somehow sacked Flacco 47 times already. :facepalm: :facepalm:
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And the path gets easier. Crazy.
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Of course Mahomes gets hurt on a QB sneak. &$#gz34!! Talk about a No Fun League. Brady tries sneaks all the time and the stupid linemen never step on his leg. aaarrggggghhhhh
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It's the avacado ice cream.
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Also lol at how bad Flacco sucks. 6 pts against the porous Chiefs defense :rollin
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Man, just saw that it's an all NFC East game on Sunday Night Football. I swear we get more of these types of games than any other divisional matchup and the games are, by large majority, clunkers. It's baffling how the NFL continues to make money on that compared to the money they might make on other better matchups, if they even are.
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Could be worse, it could be the Skins-Giants. ;D
I honestly don't mind the Cowboys on SNF. It's always different each week.
My problem is every Sunday here, the 4:00 game features the Cowboys. Every fucking week.
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6-0. Wtf is going on man?
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Could be worse, it could be the Skins-Giants. ;D
I honestly don't mind the Cowboys on SNF. It's always different each week.
My problem is every Sunday here, the 4:00 game features the Cowboys. Every fucking week.
It's been like that since we were kids; I can remember, we used to go to my aunt's house for Sunday dinner every Sunday from like September through the winter, and it seemed like every Sunday it was Pat Summerall, Tom Berkshier, and Tom Landry.
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I don't know if there's a thread for this, but honest question:
For those that picked Minnesota over Detroit, what was your rationale? And for those that picked Washington against SF, what was YOUR rationale? I'm not being critical, I'm wondering what you saw.
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I wouldn't touch the Vikings/Lions game. The Vikings have been hot and cold, but so have the Lions.
The Redskins have been cold and cold. Nobody in their right mind should've taken the Skins.
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I'm calling it now, if the 49ers can keep playing defense as well as they have, we are going to end up with a 49ers-Patriots Superbowl. Only 2 teams I'm worried about on the 49ers schedule is the Packers and the Seahawks.
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I don't know if there's a thread for this, but honest question:
For those that picked Minnesota over Detroit, what was your rationale? And for those that picked Washington against SF, what was YOUR rationale? I'm not being critical, I'm wondering what you saw.
Minn/Det was a cakewalk. Det can't stop the run and Minn has been running very well. The only way Detroit was going to overcome that was for Stafford to beat them, and despite coming kind of close, Minn's D is sound enough to prevent that most of the time.
SF/WAS was even easier. SF's D is second only to NE. There's no way they're letting losers like Washington score enough points to win. I honestly have no idea why somebody would have picked Washington in that one. I analyzed the Minn/Det game looking for a basis to choose from. I simply saw SF/Was, said "ugly!", and clicked the SF button. :lol
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I'm calling it now, if the 49ers can keep playing defense as well as they have, we are going to end up with a 49ers-Patriots Superbowl. Only 2 teams I'm worried about on the 49ers schedule is the Packers and the Seahawks.
At New Orleans (with Brees back, presumably) is not a game to worry about? Okay.
Actually, I would worry more about your QB, who continues to be pretty average. Okay, today was ugly, rainy weather, but in 14 starts with the 49ers, Garoppolo has 19 touchdowns and 14 interceptions (7-6 this season thus far). If the 49ers running game gets shut down a little and/or their defense gets scored on a bit, it remains to be seen where their QB is good enough to put the team on his back and carry them to a win against a good or great team (not most of the patsies they have beat up on thus far). We have seen little so far to suggest that he is that guy.
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^^ I don't disagree with that at all, and by that logic, if it's too early to anoint the 49'ers, it's too early to rule out the Saints. I think that's a good team, and a hungry team. They've been - by their reckoning - f****d over now twice in two years against the Rams, and I think that's going to come to a head in their favor here before Brees calls it a day.
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If the defense stays as hungry and determined as they've been in Brees' absence, we're gonna see a Saints team better than any that's ever taken the field.
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The Saints have looked like the best team in the NFL this year, all things considered. Saints/Patriots has to be the most likely scenario Super Bowl matchup right now, which of course means very little in October. :lol :lol
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I agree, but the Pats offense needs to improve.
I still think the Ravens will be there in the AFC. They look pretty good tonight.
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The AFC is so awful that the 2nd spot is up for grabs now with Mahomes' health in doubt. Indy is sneaky good. That roster is something else now. I just have a hard time trusting the Ravens until I see some improvement from Lamar Jackson when it comes to throwing the ball.
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How is the AFC so awful? I'm watching the 3rd or 4th best team in the AFC beat on the Seahawks. Maybe the 3rd or 4th best team in the NFC.
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Any given Sunday...;)
Baltimore also got their clocks cleaned at home by the crappy Browns.
I would have no problem putting the Pats and Saints at 1a and 1b right now, and then 3-5 would all be from the NFC, IMO (Packers, 49ers, Seahawks). Heck, the Vikings look as good as anyone from the AFC not named the Patriots now that Cousins is playing well again.
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Any given Sunday...;)
Baltimore also got their clocks cleaned at home by the crappy Browns.
I would have no problem putting the Pats and Saints at 1a and 1b right now, and then 3-5 would all be from the NFC, IMO (Packers, 49ers, Seahawks). Heck, the Vikings look as good as anyone from the AFC not named the Patriots now that Cousins is playing well again.
Speaking of any given Sunday.. :lol
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Hah.
Saints are up 29-10 at Chicago...and the game has been a bigger blowout that the score indicates. If not for Lutz uncharacteristically missing two field goals and the Bears returning a kickoff for a TD, the score here could be as ugly as some of those Broncos Super Bowls... :facepalm: :facepalm:
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I think this is the Saints' year, honestly.
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Last year looked like their year as well...a lot can, and will, happen between now and January.
Oh, and :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol at Melvin Gordon.
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Oh, and :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol at Melvin Gordon.
Especially since Vrabel was doing everything he could to give SD the win. That was some pretty terrible coaching.
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The refs can just rig the game at will anyway so I'm keeping my emotional investment WAY low. What I can't believe is that right after we let the Bears march effortlessly down the field for a TD and moronically gave up an onside recovery for a kick that didn't even go 10 yards, we continue to play pussy ass prevent D which ended up getting Eli Apple seriously injured. Just dance with the fuckin girl you brought to the dance and keep playing the D that got you a 26 point lead ffs. That Apple injury fuckin falls 99% on Payton and 1% on Michael Thomas for trying to recovery an onside kick we would've been given without even having to touch it.
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I'm calling it now, if the 49ers can keep playing defense as well as they have, we are going to end up with a 49ers-Patriots Superbowl. Only 2 teams I'm worried about on the 49ers schedule is the Packers and the Seahawks.
Still only 2 teams to worry about ?
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Was that Giants game as bad as the last 2:20 made it look? Holy crap, that was abysmal.
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Lamar Jackson: two weeks in a row, has accomplished feats that were never done in the Super Bowl era (could be in NFL history, but I cannot exactly quote that). The kid is something else. More later, when I have a chance to expound on his talents (with some criticism included).
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:who:
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The kid that's not too bad for a running back, that's who. :tup
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Lamar Jackson: two weeks in a row, has accomplished feats that were never done in the Super Bowl era (could be in NFL history, but I cannot exactly quote that). The kid is something else. More later, when I have a chance to expound on his talents (with some criticism included).
What are those? The only thing I knew he did was 200 yds passing and 150 yards rushing, but Kaepernick did that in 2012, and both Kaepernick and Vick both rushed for more than 150 yards (both did it twice).
This was a big win for Baltimore. So far, they've been winning but against teams they should be beating, and losing to the teams that would show their greatness (KC) and toughness (Cleveland).
As is often the case, though, the real test will come in two weeks.
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Lamar Jackson: two weeks in a row, has accomplished feats that were never done in the Super Bowl era (could be in NFL history, but I cannot exactly quote that). The kid is something else. More later, when I have a chance to expound on his talents (with some criticism included).
What are those? The only thing I knew he did was 200 yds passing and 150 yards rushing, but Kaepernick did that in 2012, and both Kaepernick and Vick both rushed for more than 150 yards (both did it twice).
This was a big win for Baltimore. So far, they've been winning but against teams they should be beating, and losing to the teams that would show their greatness (KC) and toughness (Cleveland).
As is often the case, though, the real test will come in two weeks.
We know what will happen in 2 weeks, his o-line will repeatedly be called for holding during his escapes from the pass rush.
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Jackson is a great runner of the football, but still an inconsistent, mediocre passer at best. What he is now will work in the short term, but he needs to get a lot better at throwing the ball if he wants to be franchise QB for the long term.
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Lamar Jackson: two weeks in a row, has accomplished feats that were never done in the Super Bowl era (could be in NFL history, but I cannot exactly quote that). The kid is something else. More later, when I have a chance to expound on his talents (with some criticism included).
What are those? The only thing I knew he did was 200 yds passing and 150 yards rushing, but Kaepernick did that in 2012, and both Kaepernick and Vick both rushed for more than 150 yards (both did it twice).
This was a big win for Baltimore. So far, they've been winning but against teams they should be beating, and losing to the teams that would show their greatness (KC) and toughness (Cleveland).
As is often the case, though, the real test will come in two weeks.
We know what will happen in 2 weeks, his o-line will repeatedly be called for holding during his escapes from the pass rush.
It's pretty early to start making excuses, innit? He's either the legend he's being annointed to be, or he's the next Michael Vick and Colin Kaepernick (which is to say, an exceedingly talented athlete who don't translate into a winning, reliable quarterback).
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They are playing the Patriots so Dream Team is saying that the Pats get all the phantom calls.
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They are playing the Patriots so Dream Team is saying that the Pats get all the phantom calls.
No I get it, but it's sort of a tired analysis. I mean, if you KNOW it's coming, and you fall victim to it, whose fault is that?
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They are playing the Patriots so Dream Team is saying that the Pats get all the phantom calls.
No I get it, but it's sort of a tired analysis. I mean, if you KNOW it's coming, and you fall victim to it, whose fault is that?
If they're truly "phantom calls," then it is, by definition, the fault of the officials because the team being victimized by the "phantom calls" can do nothing to stop them.
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They are playing the Patriots so Dream Team is saying that the Pats get all the phantom calls.
No I get it, but it's sort of a tired analysis. I mean, if you KNOW it's coming, and you fall victim to it, whose fault is that?
If they're truly "phantom calls," then it is, by definition, the fault of the officials because the team being victimized by the "phantom calls" can do nothing to stop them.
Eh, I disagree. I suppose there's a point at which they are SO egregious that you're right, but I don't agree that the officiating is that bad, against the Pats or generally. The one call that is indefensible is the Saints - Rams call, but the vast majority aren't that way.
In any event, according to this source (https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalty-differential.html?yr=2019&sort=oppaccept), the Pats have the LEAST amount of penalties called against their opponents this year (and were only middle of the pack last year) so that shoots that idea.
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Only the Pat's get away with holding, lining offside, deflating footballs, filming practices.
Yet, every other year a rule is made from the Patriots winning a game that other coaches look silly.
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The Pats aren’t favored by the refs (anymore). BB’s players are simply disciplined enough to not put themselves in a position for a bad call.
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Btw, I think this will be a low scoring game for both teams tonight. The only reason that might not be true if the Pats D continues to score off of turnovers.
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Yet, every other year a rule is made from the Patriots winning a game that other coaches look silly.
Tackle ineligible. :lol
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They are playing the Patriots so Dream Team is saying that the Pats get all the phantom calls.
No I get it, but it's sort of a tired analysis. I mean, if you KNOW it's coming, and you fall victim to it, whose fault is that?
If they're truly "phantom calls," then it is, by definition, the fault of the officials because the team being victimized by the "phantom calls" can do nothing to stop them.
Eh, I disagree. I suppose there's a point at which they are SO egregious that you're right, but I don't agree that the officiating is that bad, against the Pats or generally. The one call that is indefensible is the Saints - Rams call, but the vast majority aren't that way.
In any event, according to this source (https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalty-differential.html?yr=2019&sort=oppaccept), the Pats have the LEAST amount of penalties called against their opponents this year (and were only middle of the pack last year) so that shoots that idea.
That was the point I was subtly making. The implication that the officials are just making stuff up to benefit the Patriots is obvious nonsense. It's hard for folks to admit that the Patriots are that much better coached and disciplined.
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Yet, every other year a rule is made from the Patriots winning a game that other coaches look silly.
Tackle ineligible. :lol
:lol
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Who are these announcers? They're terrible. I'd almost rather have Dennis Miller back than these guys. At least he wasn't tepid and dull.
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Welcome back Ben Watson. Still in the first quarter and he's got two key first down catches and a block that sprang Michelle for a TD. :tup
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Who are these announcers? They're terrible. I'd almost rather have Dennis Miller back than these guys. At least he wasn't tepid and dull.
Hey, don't be badmouthing Booger. :lol
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I like Booger. He called out that DB big time on the Dorsett touchdown.
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I pity the fool who rags on the Booger.
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THE PATS GET ALL THE CALLS!!
Shelton roughing the passer? Joke.
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My God the officiating! THey're HANDING the game to the Patriots!
Five penalties, if memory serves and four against the Pats. Three on this drive alone! No, not complaining at all, they were all legit calls, but making the point that there's no conspiracy against the rest of the league.
In all seriousness, Saints - Patriots would be one HELL of a game right now.
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What do you guys think Belichick was telling the D?
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I will repeat what I have said before: if not for fantasy football and gambling, the popularity of the NFL would plummet. The product has gotten so bad. Five of the last six prime time games have been garbage, and the only one that wasn't was tainted due to awful officiating.
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These half time shows FUCKING SUCK!
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These half time shows FUCKING SUCK!
Must be trying to keep up with the quality of the games.
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Considering how some teams are doing an absolutely horrible job of hiding the fact that they're tanking, I think it'd be awesome if the NFL designated a point in the season where they automatically eliminate the four worst teams in the league from the playoffs for that season. Then make it so that the team that finishes with the best 16-game record out of that group gets the #10 pick and the other three pick last out of all the non-playoff teams (#18-20). I say 16-game record as opposed to only using their records after their respective disqualifications from the playoffs since this will make all losses hurt their chances of getting a good draft spot. This obviously doesn't solve tanking altogether since the fifth worst team then has the inside track for the #1 pick but at least it forces teams to try harder for more weeks before folding.
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So I don't know if you guys are still watching or not (it's 0:35 seconds left in the 3rd, 26-0 and the Pats are driving again) and Booger is talking about Belichick and what makes him the greatest. Blah, blah, blah*, and then he talked about how Belichick dives into the details like no other coach in history. And one of the things he does? He has a session on the Wednesday before the game where he. goes into the OFFICIATING CREW. Each member, what they tend to call, when/how they tend to call it, etc. If you can put your guys - either by formation, play call, situation - into a position where you can get calls, that's not "official bias" or "fixed league", that's just next level coaching. I remember playing hockey, and even into college, as a defenseman, it was often easy to get calls when you needed them, if you had the right circumstances. It wasn't cheating or fixes, it was just knowing the game.
*
(https://i.imgur.com/NvXRLjZ.jpg)
0:00 - 0:20 "Do your job, don't believe the hype, etc."
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Considering how some teams are doing an absolutely horrible job of hiding the fact that they're tanking, I think it'd be awesome if the NFL designated a point in the season where they automatically eliminate the four worst teams in the league
Sounds good to me! :lol
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Stads, yup yup.
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Love Belichick smirking at the declined penalties on the punt. :lol
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I love that it's a road game and the crowd is chanting "Brady!"
(Yes, I know it's only New York, and therefore not like going to Seattle or Kansas City - I live 100 miles from there - but it's also New York. There's no love lost for the Boston teams.)
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Seriously. To here it there is unbelievable.
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The Jets have to fire Gase immediately.
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I will repeat what I have said before: if not for fantasy football and gambling, the popularity of the NFL would plummet. The product has gotten so bad. Five of the last six prime time games have been garbage, and the only one that wasn't was tainted due to awful officiating.
Sadly, this is spot on... but damn, the Pats looked good last night even if it was against the Jets.
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I will repeat what I have said before: if not for fantasy football and gambling, the popularity of the NFL would plummet. The product has gotten so bad. Five of the last six prime time games have been garbage, and the only one that wasn't was tainted due to awful officiating.
I have no idea what you mean. Seemed like a pretty good game to me.
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Some people talk about certain non competitive match ups on SNF? MNF is even worse. That game wasn't even worth watching. How many people actually had something better to do? All of em I think. :lol
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Some people talk about certain non competitive match ups on SNF? MNF is even worse. That game wasn't even worth watching. How many people actually had something better to do? All of em I think. :lol
But some of it isn't the NFL's fault; that should have been a great game, given the way that Darnold played against the Cowboys. It's a major market game, it's got the best franchise in the game on the field... that game wasn't th4e NFL's fault, in my opinion.
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It's the evil genius's fault.
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Speaking of evil genius: Mohammed Sanu (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27900750/sources-patriots-acquire-wr-mohamed-sanu-falcons).
I'd like to hear from a couple of you on this, but I get a sense that there's a metaphorical sliding in of all the chips this year in New England. It just feels different, more strident (and earlier in the season). We're just about a third of the way into the season, but there is a "pedal to the metal" feel about the team this year. Bringing back guys like Watson. Making these trades which, relatively speaking, is more trading of the future than Belichick is normally willing to do. Belichick taking on the defense responsibilities.
In the pregame interview with Moss, Brady even made a comment - unlike one I've ever heard him say - that "the end was near". He started to say something along the lines of "I meant I'm closer to the end than the beginning" but he stopped himself and let it hang there. I would not at all be surprised that if this team won the trophy, it's the last of this specific configuration.
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Yeah, that's an interesting trade. Sanu isn't a "difference maker." He isn't a guy that fundamentally changes the way a team defends your offense (which, I believe, is one of the reasons the 49ers didn't make a major play for him despite WR being one of the areas where they could use a boost). But he does make the Pats better by giving them a VERY reliable #2 in the passing game.
But for what that means, I'm not so sure this year necessarily marks the beginning of the "end." We like to say things like that, but that doesn't mean that's what's going on. I mean, we can go back a solid 10 years on this forum and find similar threads about the supposed "end" of DT, and who is going to retire next, and whether it spells the end of DT as we know it.
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Soeaking of evil genius: Mohammed Sanu (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27900750/sources-patriots-acquire-wr-mohamed-sanu-falcons).
I'd like to hear from a couple of you on this, but I get a sense that there's a metaphorical sliding in of all the chips this year in New England. It just feels different, more strident (and earlier in the season). We're just about a third of the way into the season, but there is a "pedal to the metal" feel about the team this year. Bringing back guys like Watson. Making these trades which, relatively speaking, is more trading of the future than Belichick is normally willing to do. Belichick taking on the defense responsibilities.
In the pregame interview with Moss, Brady even made a comment - unlike one I've ever heard him say - that "the end was near". He started to say something along the lines of "I meant I'm closer to the end than the beginning" but he stopped himself and let it hang there. I would not at all be surprised that if this team won the trophy, it's the last of this specific configuration.
It might be the case, but none of your examples really point to that. Belichick often makes trades before the deadline, and it was widely expected he'd either grab Sanu or Emmanuel Sanders (I was betting on ES). They needed a TE and Watson was the perfect choice. They had nobody to promote from within so Bill took on DC reponsibilities. I don't think these are indicative of anything but filling needs via logical moves.
That said, there is a lot of speculation about Brady moving on. Aside from selling his house (and Guerrero selling his shortly thereafter) he seems to moved to void the final year of his contract. If he gets his 7th (Christ!) ring there's a pretty good chance he's off into the sunset.
No idea about Bill. He'd likely need at least 6 seasons to pass Halas and Shula, if that's his interest. And given his entire life has been football, he doesn't strike me as the sort that wants to run out the clock sitting at home and playing with the dogs. At the same time if he announces his intention to do just that who would be surprised.
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Brady has been steadfast when he says he wants to play until 45 years old. He did buy a home in Connecticut. His brand is playing longer than most using his TB12 method so I'll take that at his word. Now, is he leaving for another team. I know he's fatigued of the BS he perceives (local media scrutiny, NFL office (Owners) Scrutiny, Fighting for raises. So we'll see. I hope not.
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When I say the product is deteriorating, I am referring to more than just bad prime time games. The constant penalties on good hits because helmets grazed as a result of one moving player trying to hit another moving player, quarterbacks being protected to the point where defenders are often afraid to touch them at all. Those are just two examples. I could go on and on. The game just isn't what it used to be. I won't even throw the sad state of officiating in there, as I don't think it's any worse than it used to be; bad calls are just more magnified now due to social media, challenges, and getting more and better replays on TV.
I am guessing that, despite whatever hocus pocus his fake doctor is using as a part of the TB12 method, Brady is feeling his age and knowing that Father Time has caught him. Maybe he will try to gut it out for another year or two, but I can't see him being someone who wants to keep playing as his play continues to slowly decline.
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https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/will-tom-brady-be-bears-starting-qb-2020
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As expected, Emmanuel Sanders is getting traded. 49ers are getting a good WR.
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https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/will-tom-brady-be-bears-starting-qb-2020
Playing along, and assuming all that is true (after all, Montana went to KC...):
I wonder if you sit Trubinsky - someone I think might actually be good long term - down and say "we're bringing in a guy, you may have heard of him, and your job is to learn everything you can for the next year or two."
Also, how massive would it be to have a Bears/Patriots Super Bowl? How can you ask for more than the greatest coach against arguably the greatest player (at least of the era)? Head-to-head, though, you have to put money on Belichick. He's got more ways of stopping Brady than Brady would have of stopping Belichick, and age is clearly a factor.
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Solid trade. I was hoping for a different one, but I can't argue with it. He isn't quite the difference maker I think they were hoping for, and given his age and the injury last year, I don't know that he has the mileage left to be a long term solution. But he does command a defense's attention more than any receiver currently on their roster and he provides veteran leadership, so mission accomplished.
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As expected, Emmanuel Sanders is getting traded. 49ers are getting a good WR.
I had him going to Boston. Best guess is that NE was interested in the second year they get from Sanu. They'd have been leasing Sanders of only the remainder of this season.
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I've always kind of wondered if Tom wasn't interested in an opportunity to be the GOAT away from Bill's shadow. Sure seems like he'd have done it by now if that were the case, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he wanted to see what it was like working for another club. In a sense he basically married the first girl he nailed, after all.
It's also possible that he realizes that the odds of his career ending due to injury are greater than ending by choice. If he gets hurt he can't just assume he'll be back next year for another go at it. I don't think there's anybody that wants to see his final moment in the NFL to be walking off the field with a broken collarbone, and that's an increasingly real scenario.
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Some people talk about certain non competitive match ups on SNF? MNF is even worse. That game wasn't even worth watching. How many people actually had something better to do? All of em I think. :lol
But some of it isn't the NFL's fault; that should have been a great game, given the way that Darnold played against the Cowboys. It's a major market game, it's got the best franchise in the game on the field... that game wasn't th4e NFL's fault, in my opinion.
Somewhat disagree, but I know what you're trying to say. I think Primetime NFL games should feature 2 competitive teams. The Jets win last week vs Dallas was really no substantial indication that they could possibly compete with the Pats. Dallas was banged up and just flat out didn't show up. Even with Darnold back as starter, the outcome was still shocking to say the least.
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It would be great if all of the prime time games were great, but it's impossible to predict from year to year which teams are going to rise and which are going to fall, and you can't put the same teams on prime time every week. Aside from the issues I mentioned earlier, we now have a handful of teams that appear to be tanking (Miami, Cincinnati, Washington), some teams that can't get their shit together (Denver, Atlanta, NY Giants, Cleveland, NY Jets, LA Chargers) and some teams that are just boring as heck (Buffalo, Tennessee, Chicago), so the odds are more than good that some or all of those teams are going to be featured in two or three of the prime time games every week.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/YCJ8sXwb/20191022-195133.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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That "seeing ghosts" comment is gonna haunt Darnold forever, and who is the dumb ass in the Jets organization who approved him getting mic'd up in a game against that Patriots defense?
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It wasn't the Jets who approved it. It was the NFL offices. I saw it tweeted today.
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Section 13. On-Field Microphones and Sensors:
(a) During NFL games and for the express purpose of creating NFL programming, NFL Films will be permitted to put microphones on any players that NFL Films selects. During the regular season each starting quarterback will be required to wear a microphone at least once, and no player will be required to wear a microphone for this purpose more than four times during the course of any regular season.
The Jets are bent out of shape that NFL Films approved the use of that comment. AFAIC that's on Darnold. He knew he was mic'd up.
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Ah, okay. Just another reason to bash the NFL, then. :lol :lol
And yeah, knowing he was mic'd up, Darnold should have known better than to say that, although I don't think any of us can say how we would react if we saw ghosts. :P
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Ah, okay. Just another reason to bash the NFL, then. :lol :lol
And yeah, knowing he was mic'd up, Darnold should have known better than to say that, although I don't think any of us can say how we would react if we saw ghosts. :P
He was shell-shocked. I would not be surprised if he totally forgot about that microphone. Booger at one point said that he thought Gase should just pull him so it didn't get worse for him. Start fresh on Tuesday.
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He was shell-shocked. I would not be surprised if he totally forgot about that microphone. Booger at one point said that he thought Gase should just pull him so it didn't get worse for him. Start fresh on Tuesday.
For sure. Of course, some are taking last night as a sign that he is a bust, but plenty of quarterbacks, many far greater than Sam Darnold, had awful games like that early in their career. And Darnold is just the latest in a very long line of quarterbacks that Belichick made look like a clown.
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Christ, Troy had turned in passer ratings of 4, 2.8, and 11.4 at about the same point in his career. :lol
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DID SOMONE SAY TROY??
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It would be great if all of the prime time games were great, but it's impossible to predict from year to year which teams are going to rise and which are going to fall, and you can't put the same teams on prime time every week. Aside from the issues I mentioned earlier, we now have a handful of teams that appear to be tanking (Miami, Cincinnati, Washington), some teams that can't get their shit together (Denver, Atlanta, NY Giants, Cleveland, NY Jets, LA Chargers) and some teams that are just boring as heck (Buffalo, Tennessee, Chicago), so the odds are more than good that some or all of those teams are going to be featured in two or three of the prime time games every week.
Put a couple of shitty teams on primetime. If they're evenly matched, it outta be a pretty good game. :lol That's all I'm saying. I mean look at it. We all know the Pats are a great team, but for the most part, NFL fans are tired of the Pats. Put a team in there that has a chance of beating them and that would be worth watching. But the Jets? :lol If that game had one of the lowest ratings ever, I wouldn't be surprised.
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How many people tuned it to watch Mike Tyson knock out Buster Douglass in 90 seconds or less? Sometimes a good ass-whipping can be fun to watch.
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How many people tuned it to watch Mike Tyson knock out Buster Douglass in 90 seconds or less? Sometimes a good ass-whipping can be fun to watch.
My girlfriend at the time who knew nothing of boxing and told me Tyson would be knocked out that night. I laughed in her face. Then we sat through it in disbelief. She was giving my brother and I shit about it. :lol
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How many people tuned it to watch Mike Tyson knock out Buster Douglass in 90 seconds or less? Sometimes a good ass-whipping can be fun to watch.
Maybe for 90 secs. That's a lot different than 3 hours. Besides, you're a biased Pats fan anyway. :rollin
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Agreed, leaving gambling/FF out of it for a minute, a butt-kicking is really only fun to watch if you are a fan of the team on the giving end, unless the winning team has a really exciting offense to watch, which the Patriots do not, unless a neutral fan really thinks a game jam-packed with 1-yard passes being turned into 9-yard gains is exciting. :lol :lol
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Agreed, leaving gambling/FF out of it for a minute, a butt-kicking is really only fun to watch if you are a fan of the team on the giving end, unless the winning team has a really exciting offense to watch, which the Patriots do not, unless a neutral fan really thinks a game jam-packed with 1-yard passes being turned into 9-yard gains is exciting. :lol :lol
Yeah, that's not really true. I'm sort of the opposite; unless it's a team/player I don't like - Chiefs, Cam Newton - or a team playing a team I DO like, I enjoy watching guys turn nothing into something. I'm a Saints fan, so it doesn't really count, but Latavius Murray falls into that category. I watch a lot of football (I watch Thursday, at least one game on Sunday, and Monday every week regardless of who is playing) and I enjoy watching teams/players/coaches who do well week in week out. (On the other side, not terribly impressed with back foot heaves in the end zone that pull out a dramatic win 5 out of 10 times).
(By the way, there was more to that delay of game/false start/smirk; I don't think he was smirking at the Jets declining it, I think he was smirking because he ran off 90 seconds when he probably should have gotten an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.)
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Agreed, leaving gambling/FF out of it for a minute, a butt-kicking is really only fun to watch if you are a fan of the team on the giving end, unless the winning team has a really exciting offense to watch, which the Patriots do not, unless a neutral fan really thinks a game jam-packed with 1-yard passes being turned into 9-yard gains is exciting. :lol :lol
Yeah, that's not really true. I'm sort of the opposite; unless it's a team/player I don't like - Chiefs, Cam Newton - or a team playing a team I DO like, I enjoy watching guys turn nothing into something. I'm a Saints fan, so it doesn't really count, but Latavius Murray falls into that category. I watch a lot of football (I watch Thursday, at least one game on Sunday, and Monday every week regardless of who is playing) and I enjoy watching teams/players/coaches who do well week in week out. (On the other side, not terribly impressed with back foot heaves in the end zone that pull out a dramatic win 5 out of 10 times).
(By the way, there was more to that delay of game/false start/smirk; I don't think he was smirking at the Jets declining it, I think he was smirking because he ran off 90 seconds when he probably should have gotten an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.)
We can agree to disagree, then, because I feel that most neutral fans tune in to see a good game, not one team dismantle another. Blowouts do not get people talking the next day or asking, "Holy shit, did you see that game last night??"
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I think one team dismantling another can and often is a "good game." As Barto said
Sometimes a good ass-whipping can be fun to watch.
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Here's a question (I have my suspicions, but it's an honest quesion): all things being equal, what gets higher ratings: a 6-3 defensive battle, or a 33-0 "blowout"?
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I would suspect that it would be the latter. And if they are two teams that I care nothing about and where I don't really know the players, I know I would generally find the latter to be WAY more entertaining. But the former might very well keep me watching all the way to the end vs. losing interest in the 4th quarter and finding something else to do.
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Here's a question (I have my suspicions, but it's an honest quesion): all things being equal, what gets higher ratings: a 6-3 defensive battle, or a 33-0 "blowout"?
Not sure. Unless my team were involved, I wouldn't want to watch either one of these games.
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I think Hef gets it. NFL fans want high scoring, offensive shootouts with several lead changes. Not blowouts. Not low scoring defensive battles.
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How many people tuned it to watch Mike Tyson knock out Buster Douglass in 90 seconds or less? Sometimes a good ass-whipping can be fun to watch.
Maybe for 90 secs. That's a lot different than 3 hours. Besides, you're a biased Pats fan anyway. :rollin
For the record, I barely watched the second half myself. I'm not defending the quality of Monday night's game. I'm merely pointing out that a blowout doesn't mean bad product. Nor does a 42-1 favorite automatically win.
Agreed, leaving gambling/FF out of it for a minute, a butt-kicking is really only fun to watch if you are a fan of the team on the giving end, unless the winning team has a really exciting offense to watch, which the Patriots do not, unless a neutral fan really thinks a game jam-packed with 1-yard passes being turned into 9-yard gains is exciting. :lol :lol
You're half wrong on this. A really exciting D can be just as fun to watch (more-so than the O, in my opinion). The NE D is playing historically good football right now, and more interesting to me than the outcome of that game (it was over as soon as Darnold through his first pick on their second play of the game) was seeing what NE's D could do. They're kind of in uncharted statistical territory right now, and it's interesting to see where they go. And for my part, I've watched games for this reason even among teams I don't care about. Who didn't want to watch Jay Cutler get sacked 9 times in a half? :lol
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Yeah, a 6-3 game played between two teams with great defenses can be great fun to watch.
A 6-3 game between two shitty teams is just, well, shitty.
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Agreed, a great, close defensive battle can be thrilling to watch. I like a close game with lots of good offense and lots of good defense, which is why, for me, the best Super Bowls I have seen are 32 (Broncos/Packers), 49 (Patriots/Seahawks) and 43 (Steelers/Cardinals), since those games all had a lot of good offense and a lot of good defense. The balance wasn't tilted too much to one side, like the last two Super Bowls (last year with a lot of bad offense or the year before with a lot of bad defense).
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Here's a question (I have my suspicions, but it's an honest quesion): all things being equal, what gets higher ratings: a 6-3 defensive battle, or a 33-0 "blowout"?
That depends. Are you breaking down the ratings by quarter? And when does it become obvious that the 33-0 game will be a blowout (i.e., is it 9-0 until the start of the 4th quarter, when the winning team scores three quick TDs and a FG, or is it over after the first quarter?). The latter game might get good first half ratings, but folks will tune out once it's obvious the losing team isn't coming back. By contrast, it's hard to know that the 6-3 game will remain close or that it will end up a 6-3 game. It also depends why it's a 6-3 game. Is it because the defenses are playing exceptionally well or because the offenses are inept? Without more info, I'd much prefer the 6-3 game (whether I'm a neutral fan or one with a rooting interest).
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Damn shame about Josh Gordon. Hope he gets a job someplace stable.
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You guys complaining about MNF being a shit-fest haven't seen anything, yet. Steelers/Dolphins is the next one, and this will be a time that I don't mind working 2nd shift.
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Still won't top the diarrhea fest that their 2007 meeting was.
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Still won't top the diarrhea fest that their 2007 meeting was.
I'll never forget the way that one punt landed in the mud :lol Probably the most entertaining play of that game.
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Still won't top the diarrhea fest that their 2007 meeting was.
I'll never forget the way that one punt landed in the mud :lol Probably the most entertaining play of that game.
Yeah, I remember that game pretty well. They had the excuse of bad weather, so I can give it a pass. As far as I know, there shouldn't be any excuses like that for this meeting. The fish seem to be intentionally tanking their season, and my beloved stillers appear to be lost in the wilderness.
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So I heard Mahomes is trying to get cleared to play this weekend. Probably won't happen though. Still pisses me off to no end that some useless, shitty lineman cost us seeing Mahomes vs Rodgers. Probably 4 more years til we get another chance, and Rodgers is likely out of the league by then. :(
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I would blame his head coach for trying a sneak with a QB he was already injured with a bad ankle sprain. Don't put your most important piece in harms way when already injured.
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^ Yeah. Hey I just saw the Vegas line on Mia-Pit. PUT ALL YOUR MONEY ON THE DOLPHINS. This is the hot tip of the day, I know Tomlin well. In fact this will probably be Miami's first win of the season.
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Sorry, this is going to sound crueler than I intend, but as for Mahomes, welcome to the NFL. Players get hurt. If you're a fan of '80's Giants, you understand this (Simms/Hostetler). If you're a Patriots fan, you understand this (Brady missing a season). If you're a Colts fan, you understand this (Manning, Luck). If you're a Saints fan, you understand this (Brees). If you're an Eagles fan, you understand this (Wentz). If you're a Redskins fan, you understand this (Theismann). If you're a Browns fan, you understand this (Kozar).
I don't disagree with King at all (I'm not a Reid fan, so...), but as a general proposition, "things happen" in an athletic contest, where you're using your BODY to advance the game.
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I thought that too Stads but this is your franchise. Without him they will make the playoffs but go anywhere. He injured his ankle the week before bad. Still fought through for this game so the sneak would be the one call I take off the board.
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I thought that too Stads but this is your franchise. Without him they will make the playoffs but go anywhere. He injured his ankle the week before bad. Still fought through for this game so the sneak would be the one call I take off the board.
He's far more likely to get hurt running out of the pocket and making those off-balance throws he's always chucking. Getting hurt on the sneak was more of a fluke than anything else. Either the guy's capable of playing or he's not. If he's likely to get hurt running a play from their book then he's not capable of playing. Or at least shouldn't be. However, it doesn't look like the known injury was the problem here, so none of this really matters. Chalk it up to "shit happens."
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Injuries happen in football ?!? :omg: I was just trying to make the point I'm going to miss seeing a Mahomes-Rodgers battle, nothing more.
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Injuries happen in football ?!? :omg: I was just trying to make the point I'm going to miss seeing a Mahomes-Rodgers battle, nothing more.
I guess I got thrown by the "useless shitty lineman" comment. :) ;)
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I thought that too Stads but this is your franchise. Without him they will make the playoffs but go anywhere. He injured his ankle the week before bad. Still fought through for this game so the sneak would be the one call I take off the board.
He's far more likely to get hurt running out of the pocket and making those off-balance throws he's always chucking. Getting hurt on the sneak was more of a fluke than anything else. Either the guy's capable of playing or he's not. If he's likely to get hurt running a play from their book then he's not capable of playing. Or at least shouldn't be. However, it doesn't look like the known injury was the problem here, so none of this really matters. Chalk it up to "shit happens."
No I get yeah. Brady never comes off as well no matter what. What about him possibly playing this Sunday? Would you be ok with that?
We can shit all over Reid though. :lol
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I thought that too Stads but this is your franchise. Without him they will make the playoffs but go anywhere. He injured his ankle the week before bad. Still fought through for this game so the sneak would be the one call I take off the board.
He's far more likely to get hurt running out of the pocket and making those off-balance throws he's always chucking. Getting hurt on the sneak was more of a fluke than anything else. Either the guy's capable of playing or he's not. If he's likely to get hurt running a play from their book then he's not capable of playing. Or at least shouldn't be. However, it doesn't look like the known injury was the problem here, so none of this really matters. Chalk it up to "shit happens."
No I get yeah. Brady never comes off as well no matter what. What about him possibly playing this Sunday? Would you be ok with that?
We can shit all over Reid though. :lol
I have no idea what the extent of the injury is, but I'd be inclined to start Matt Moore. Even if PM is 100%, there's till no guarantee they beat GB. KC didn't look very good at all with PM at <100%. I'd give them no chance with a hobbled Mahomes. And there's always the possibility that the team rallies around Matt Moore leading to an improbable upset. Adversity builds character.
More important, though, you run the risk of losing him for even longer. What Jerry Jones did with Romo should have been a bucket of cold water to the other coaches and GMs in the league. Jerry had an excuse because it was do or die time. This game's not all that important in the grand scheme of things. When Mahomes comes back healthy and ready to rock they're going to plow their way through the rest of the schedule and earn a bye week. He's far more important later than he is now, and that's really the key.
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100% agree What's 2 games missed compared to the alternative.
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I know Andy Reid's is everyone's favorite punching bag, but I can't put the injury to Mahomes on him. We see 944 QB sneaks a year and injuries never happen. That's about as fluky an injury as you will see.
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I know Andy Reid's is everyone's favorite punching bag, but I can't put the injury to Mahomes on him. We see 944 QB sneaks a year and injuries never happen. That's about as fluky an injury as you will see.
Agree. I heard some rather hilarious discussion about this on Will Cain's ESPN radio show last week. It culminated with someone making the mock argument that having a head cold might increase one's susceptibility to a torn ACL.
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I know Andy Reid's is everyone's favorite punching bag, but I can't put the injury to Mahomes on him. We see 944 QB sneaks a year and injuries never happen. That's about as fluky an injury as you will see.
Yeah, and I tried to find a way. :lol
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:lol
we'll see how you feel when he starts this week Kev. LOL
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The league really has taken kind of a strange turn this year. When I pick games on Sunday morning I research most of them. When there's one that seems to me to be a no-brainer, a NE v Mia kind of thing, I check and if 90% or more Yahooers agree with me I call it a pick and move on. If it's 89-11 I investigate it, and I might even decide to go with the dog. Normally there might be 5/16 no-brainers. Eight would be a real convenience and I'd get done with my picks early. This year it's probably half the games. Nine this week, and the most competitive games are two 67-33 splits. Week after week of obvious picks. And yet, as we learned a couple of weeks ago, when you see an entire week of clear-cut, obvious wins, it's almost always a trap. You'd be hard-pressed to find good underdogs this week, yet six or seven of them will very likely win.
I'm honestly not quite sure what to make of it. I think Rodger's silly ass was right. There really does seem to be some parity in the league right now, and the Any Given Sunday adage is more accurate than ever.
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I agree, it's been harder to pick games this season - seems like there's been more upsets than usual. You're still kicking ass with your picks though, as usual Barto!
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Case in point: how is this game 6-6 at half time? This game makes the Pats/Jets look like the '58 Championship Game. I LOVE a good defensive battle, but this ain't that. This is like watching Pop Warner.
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Case in point: how is this game 6-6 at half time? This game makes the Pats/Jets look like the '58 Championship Game. I LOVE a good defensive battle, but this ain't that. This is like watching Pop Warner.
Um..that was keen. ;D
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Vikings just blew it wide open!
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Classy move by the Vikings fans acknowledging Adrian Peterson.
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Going back a bit on Lamar Jackson. He was the first in the SB era with over 200+ passing and 150+ rushing in a game. He was the first ever with two straight 100+ yards rushing and a TD in two straight games.
I'm enjoying him for what he is. Reminds me of Barry Sanders, when even a play that nets one yard might get me out of my seat. I also see similarities as to when he gets tackled, where he doesn't take the full brunt of a hit. Of course, one helmet to the knee such as what Robert Griffin suffered, and that can all change. The two recent injuries to Mahomes are a case in point of the luck of the draw.
Last year and in the off season, I made these comparisons of QBs:
In spite of great coverage, Tom Brady can zip the ball into that one foot window for a completion
Patrick Mahomes can roll out and throw it off balance 40 yards downfield into that one foot window for a completion.
Lamar Jackson couldn't hit my picture window fifty percent of the time from ten yards out.
That's changed this year. He's never going to be the 'elite' passer. He doesn't have to be. But he's improved dramatically, and took the team on his shoulders last week after his security blanket TE dropped three passes. Opponent TOs certainly helped, the football gods smiled and kept Seattle's fumble in bounds (same as the Steeler OT fumble against the Ravens), and injuries actually helped Balto in forcing them to make some changes. We don't need any more.
I can see this team making the Super Bowl. I can also see them going 9-7 in this fickle week to week league.
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Classy move by the Vikings fans acknowledging Adrian Peterson.
Did they punch him in the nuts?
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Going back a bit on Lamar Jackson. He was the first in the SB era with over 200+ passing and 150+ rushing in a game. He was the first ever with two straight 100+ yards rushing and a TD in two straight games.
I'm enjoying him for what he is. Reminds me of Barry Sanders, when even a play that nets one yard might get me out of my seat. I also see similarities as to when he gets tackled, where he doesn't take the full brunt of a hit. Of course, one helmet to the knee such as what Robert Griffin suffered, and that can all change. The two recent injuries to Mahomes are a case in point of the luck of the draw.
Last year and in the off season, I made these comparisons of QBs:
In spite of great coverage, Tom Brady can zip the ball into that one foot window for a completion
Patrick Mahomes can roll out and throw it off balance 40 yards downfield into that one foot window for a completion.
Lamar Jackson couldn't hit my picture window fifty percent of the time from ten yards out.
That's changed this year. He's never going to be the 'elite' passer. He doesn't have to be. But he's improved dramatically, and took the team on his shoulders last week after his security blanket TE dropped three passes. Opponent TOs certainly helped, the football gods smiled and kept Seattle's fumble in bounds (same as the Steeler OT fumble against the Ravens), and injuries actually helped Balto in forcing them to make some changes. We don't need any more.
I can see this team making the Super Bowl. I can also see them going 9-7 in this fickle week to week league.
This season has gone better than most expected so far ( Ravens Fans ). They have made some huge improvements on defense , personnel and scheme that have made the difference recently. They have a tough road through the rest of the season so I don't know what to expect record wise. As long as they show up , like really show up ( that Browns game ) I'm good from a fan perspective.
How are those Eagles treating you bro ? Great fan base from what I hear ...
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Going back a bit on Lamar Jackson. He was the first in the SB era with over 200+ passing and 150+ rushing in a game. He was the first ever with two straight 100+ yards rushing and a TD in two straight games.
I'm enjoying him for what he is. Reminds me of Barry Sanders, when even a play that nets one yard might get me out of my seat. I also see similarities as to when he gets tackled, where he doesn't take the full brunt of a hit. Of course, one helmet to the knee such as what Robert Griffin suffered, and that can all change. The two recent injuries to Mahomes are a case in point of the luck of the draw.
Last year and in the off season, I made these comparisons of QBs:
In spite of great coverage, Tom Brady can zip the ball into that one foot window for a completion
Patrick Mahomes can roll out and throw it off balance 40 yards downfield into that one foot window for a completion.
Lamar Jackson couldn't hit my picture window fifty percent of the time from ten yards out.
That's changed this year. He's never going to be the 'elite' passer. He doesn't have to be. But he's improved dramatically, and took the team on his shoulders last week after his security blanket TE dropped three passes. Opponent TOs certainly helped, the football gods smiled and kept Seattle's fumble in bounds (same as the Steeler OT fumble against the Ravens), and injuries actually helped Balto in forcing them to make some changes. We don't need any more.
I can see this team making the Super Bowl. I can also see them going 9-7 in this fickle week to week league.
I hope you take this in the spirit intended - objective football discussion - and not petty pissing on your parade, but enjoy him while you can. History shows that's not a winning combination. He's most often compared to Michael Vick, who, while an amazing athlete (I mean, once in a generation athlete) has zero Super Bowl wins to his credit, and will be a footnote in NFL history, for off the field tom-foolery. He's often compared to Colin Kaepernick, who, while an amazing athlete, has zero Super Bowl wins to his credit, and will be a footnote in NFL history, for off the field shenanigans. Other names that come up often: Cam Newton, who, while a very good athlete, has zero Super Bowl wins to his credit, and will likely be a footnote in NFL history, for off the field balderdash. The only one that gets mentioned in this conversation that defies this trend is Russell Wilson, and his "history" is not the same, in that he will rush when he has to, but recognizes that he doesn't have to more often than not (his season high is something like 850 yards, and his average per season is under 500).
I can see the Ravens making a dent in the playoffs, but if they are going to rely on one guy for that kind of production to be the difference, they aren't getting past the Patriots, and they might not get past the Bills (though the other side of the ball may change that). Even if "ANY GIVEN SUNDAY", they will still likely have to get by the Rams or the Saints, and I just don't see Wade Phillips getting beat by one guy like that (see Super Bowl 50).
Sorry, I'm impressed with Lamar Jackson as an athlete, not so much as a quarterback.
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Stadler touched on Wilson as being an outlier, and there are 2 **HUGE** reasons for that. And they are most likely the reasons why Russell Wilson will become "among the greats" as time goes on.
1) The league favors those who keep their nose clean. Yes, in certain instances, they will occasionally bury bad PR, but more often than not, they punish bad PR. And they ALWAYS favor (and promote) the types of characters that make for good PR. You can love or hate that fact, but it is fact.
2) Moreso than any other QB in the league that I can think of, he is a passionate STUDENT of the game. He has a reputation of constantly studying film, constantly studying plays, going far above and beyond any other player on the team (and indeed, most players in the entire league) to learn more about the game and how to beat the other team. Passion combined with knowledge will grow into wisdom. Wise players will usually have long and fruitful careers.
Not sure how many of you guys heard. But Wilson's headset cut out completely during the Browns game, so Wilson was forced to call his own play on the fly. That was the pass play that resulted in a TD. IMO, he doesn't have Peyton Manning's height or stature, but he does have Manning's wisdom of the game and how to play it.
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I don't want to get into comparing Wilson too soon to a top tier all-timer like Peyton, but the biggest difference, to me, between Wilson and those other QB's who were known for being running ones early in their career is that Wilson has always been a very good passer. He came into the league as a good passer and has only gotten better. I remember watching him as a rookie and thinking that he would scare the hell out of me if I was playing against him. And every single time the Seahawks have played the Broncos since, Russell Wilson has been the player/thing I feared the most, even in Super Bowl 48. As a longtime Broncos fan, he is in that list of QB's who I worried/worry about going into games (Marino, Montana, Young, Favre, Warner, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson, Mahomes).
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And to clarify, I don't think he will ever be in Manning territory, because his natural physical attributes give him some extra hurdles that Manning never had. I was only comparing his smarts, and his "extra mile" work ethic....which will put him above most other QBs who only show up for camp, only study when they have to...etc...etc..
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Yep, yep, I know what you mean, and I agree. I feel that Wilson has been underrated for years, and I fear that those who give all of the credit for his one ring to the D and M Lynch will never give him the full credit he deserves until he wins another ring, which is unfair, but it is what it is.
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Yep, yep, I know what you mean, and I agree. I feel that Wilson has been underrated for years, and I fear that those who give all of the credit for his one ring to the D and M Lynch will never give him the full credit he deserves until he wins another ring, which is unfair, but it is what it is.
Credit on whether a guy wins a ring or not has always been ridiculous to me.
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Credit on whether a guy wins a ring or not has always been ridiculous to me.
I mostly agree. It always aggravated me that Elway was knocked for most of the latter half of his career because he had yet to win a ring. Fortunately, he won two late that solidified his spot as an all-time great. On the flip side, even though I think he is kind of an a-hole, I feel that Dan Marino gets shafted in "best QB's ever" conversations because he never won a ring.
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I feel that Wilson has been underrated for years, and I fear that those who give all of the credit for his one ring to the D and M Lynch will never give him the full credit he deserves until he wins another ring, which is unfair, but it is what it is.
Maybe nationally, but fans here in the PNW know what they have in Wilson, and have never underappreciated him and what he has meant to the franchise and the city.
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No one ever talks about great punters anymore. But man, it sure is pretty freakin awesome when you have one.
I've watched football for 40 years, and Dickson for Seattle is in the top 5 punters I've ever seen. Most people will never hear about it, because the media never covers punters.
I still remember Ray Guy from Oakland. Jeff Feagles was another good one I remember...
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No one ever talks about great punters anymore. But man, it sure is pretty freakin awesome when you have one.
I've watched football for 40 years, and Dickson for Seattle is in the top 5 punters I've ever seen. Most people will never hear about it, because the media never covers punters.
I still remember Ray Guy from Oakland. Jeff Feagles was another good one I remember...
At the NFL level the difference between a good punter and a great punter just isn't that great. Right now only 3 yards separate the top 15 punters in net average, and that has as much to do with the coverage unit as anything else. And since coffin corner kicks are out of style that's really what matters.
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Isn't it just as much about Hang Time as it is Net Yardage?
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Wonder how much fun Le’Veon Bell is having right now? Stupid tool.
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Wonder how much fun Le’Veon Bell is having right now? Stupid tool.
Yep, stuck on a 1-5 Jets team when he could still be on a 2-4 Steelers team. :P
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Wonder how much fun Le’Veon Bell is having right now? Stupid tool.
Yep, stuck on a 1-5 Jets team when he could still be on a 2-4 Steelers team. :P
:D Well, I meant that his longest rush of the day was for 5 yards. But he didn’t know Ben and Brown were both going to be gone when he quit the team. Left a pretty good situation for a shitty team and about the same money.
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Wonder how much fun Le’Veon Bell is having right now? Stupid tool.
Yep, stuck on a 1-5 Jets team when he could still be on a 2-4 Steelers team. :P
He didn't have to go to the Jets. This is what you get when all you care about is the highest bidder. Reminds me of Revis. Tool.
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Watching the 49er's work the Panthers :/
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Watching the 49er's work the Panthers :/
Cool. That was the toughest game to pick this week. I waffled about 3 times on that one. :lol
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Damn, the Patriots' Defense has scored more touchdowns than they've allowed.
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Watching the 49er's work the Panthers :/
Fuck they look good.
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Damn, the Patriots' Defense has scored more touchdowns than they've allowed.
That strip of Nick Chubb was a thing of beauty.
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Mayfield WTF?? :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Baker was getting mad at Chubb hogging all of the turnovers. :lol :lol
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Holy shit the Niners look impressive.
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Holy shit the Niners look impressive.
I know right?
I called it last week. The Niners are going all the way this year!
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I changed at the last minute to the Bucs. NEVER second guess your answer.
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Isn't it just as much about Hang Time as it is Net Yardage?
That's what she said.
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:lol
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Yep, yep, I know what you mean, and I agree. I feel that Wilson has been underrated for years, and I fear that those who give all of the credit for his one ring to the D and M Lynch will never give him the full credit he deserves until he wins another ring, which is unfair, but it is what it is.
Credit on whether a guy wins a ring or not has always been ridiculous to me.
I understand your point, but I think its fair. After all, when a team drafts, when they go through the off-season workouts, when they begin spring training, when they play preseason games... what's the objective? 5,000 yards and 50 TDs? Or a champeenship?
I think there are exceptions, but I think they mostly go hand-in-hand, and my focus on that stat is less about excluding Marino than it is including guys that may have put their own stats on the sideline to help the team win.
Though I would be remiss if I didn't point out that to some degree, the notion that Miami was an offensive machine and a defensive screen door is a little bit mythic. In the seventeen years that Marino played, they were the number one offense in either points scored or yards gained four times (one year, the SB year of 1984, they were both). Their defense was number one in either fewest points given up or fewest yards gained three times. They were top ten in one of those categories five times and top half of the league in one of those categories 11 times. I grew up watching Marino play, and the guy was as talented as they come. But I can remember asking my Dad why he was always yelling at his teammates. I notice a similar trait in Phillip Rivers and he doesn't have any rings either. I think "Leadership" is as important a stat as "200 yards thrown and 100 rushed in a game". (Read that article in the Amob thread about the early years of that band; it's a similar story.)
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Dan Marino plays a character in Sym X?
I'm with you on leadership.
But the Superbowl is one game. A playoff game is one game.
Was Doug Williams or Mark Rypien a better then Dan Marino, or even Phillip Rivers for that matter?
I get that the Championships the goal, but I don't know. How a guy plays in the big games should be a factor for sure, but this is a team sport where the QB gets way too much credit and way too much blame.
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Props to the Chiefs for going from being down 14-0 to scaring the Packers into not even making a serious attempt at scoring even a field goal with a minute and two timeouts remaining.
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Good wins for Rams and Seahawks, but F'n Raiders being Raiders. ::) :loser:
Damn Niners. Really starting to hate this amazing run.
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Not to overreact to a single stellar game, but I think the 49ers' "case for 10-0" (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53408.msg2591956#msg2591956) is looking VERY reasonable at this point. Yes, they have a short week to prepare for the Cardinals. But more importantly, the Cardinals have a short week to prepare for the '9ers. I think they'll be 8-0 heading into the Seattle game, and...well, I don't see any reason at this point to believe things will play out any differently than what I posted a couple of weeks ago. Man, what a performance yesterday! Whatever the end result of this season ends up being, this team is so fun to watch right now.
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While there are clear differences (Jimmy G is no Elway, the 49ers are using a stable of RBs instead of having that one stud, 49ers defense is better), this 49ers team reminds me of the Broncos of the later 90's. They are going to run it down your throats and there is not much you can do to stop it. The younger Shanahan has learned well from his papa.
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Not to overreact to a single stellar game, but I think the 49ers' "case for 10-0" (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53408.msg2591956#msg2591956) is looking VERY reasonable at this point. Yes, they have a short week to prepare for the Cardinals. But more importantly, the Cardinals have a short week to prepare for the '9ers. I think they'll be 8-0 heading into the Seattle game, and...well, I don't see any reason at this point to believe things will play out any differently than what I posted a couple of weeks ago. Man, what a performance yesterday! Whatever the end result of this season ends up being, this team is so fun to watch right now.
That was a first-class ass-whipping.
I kind of expected to lose, but I certainly didn't foresee THAT.
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Not to overreact to a single stellar game, but I think the 49ers' "case for 10-0" (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53408.msg2591956#msg2591956) is looking VERY reasonable at this point. Yes, they have a short week to prepare for the Cardinals. But more importantly, the Cardinals have a short week to prepare for the '9ers. I think they'll be 8-0 heading into the Seattle game, and...well, I don't see any reason at this point to believe things will play out any differently than what I posted a couple of weeks ago. Man, what a performance yesterday! Whatever the end result of this season ends up being, this team is so fun to watch right now.
That was a first-class ass-whipping.
I kind of expected to lose, but I certainly didn't foresee THAT.
Yeah, I was hopeful we could pull off a solid win, I didn't see that kind of game coming at all. Cardinals should be a much easier week, but then again we only beat Washington 9-0 (albeit in really odd conditions). At this point all focus is on Seattle. We have always been, frankly, horrific in Seattle, so the game being in San Fran really gives us a chance at keeping the train rolling.
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Both the 9'ers (w games vs Seattle) & the Pats (Ravens, Eagles, Cowboys, KC).
Both might have and "L" between them.
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Honestly, assuming they get past Seattle (which I don't think will be a huge task), I think the most important game on the schedule becomes the Packers game. And I say that simply because I think they need to stay seeded higher than the Packers going into the playoffs at all costs. Aside from just a goofy game against the Steelers where they couldn't hold onto the ball to save their lives, the one time they struggled was in inclement weather in Washington. I know it's not the same thing, but I would not want that team having to potentially travel to play at Lambeau in winter. That could be a bad combination that this young team may not be well equipped to handle. Beating the Packers is a must, IMO.
King, I have no idea what you are saying.
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King, I have no idea what you are saying.
Yeah, I'm pretty lost as well.
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Lol at Sporting News having the Saints at #4 in their power rankings. SF and NE have played insanely easy schedules and, as far as I know, haven't had any major players out for significant amounts of time. Also, GB's strength of schedule is weaker than the Saints', their only loss is to a 4-4 Eagles (at home) as opposed to the 5-3 Rams that the Saints' lone loss came against (on the road) plus that game involved Drew Brees going out with an injury and an "accidentally" whistled dead 83-yard fumble return for a TD by Cam Jordan. Meanwhile, the Packers got all they could handle from a Mahomes-less, Matt Moore-led Chiefs team and were given the most lopsidedly beneficial officiating this side of last season's NFC CG in the Lions game. Meanwhile, the Saints' D has become ferocious allowing just 13.3 ppg the last 3 games (15 of which were in garbage time at the Bears while running the clock out following a 36-10 lead), 7 fewer on the season than the Packers, and the offense has scored just 20 fewer points than GB's despite only having Brees for 8.5 quarters of actual game time of the 32 they've played this season. Also, two straight games with Alvin Kamara out with an injury and Latavius Murray is straight killin it with back-to-back 100-yard games and 86 yards receiving the last two games.
I just can't see how any rational person could think the Saints are any lower than #2 and even if they were #2 it'd be an unenviable task to explain why anyone else is actually better.
Here are these four teams' respective SOS figures.
SF 16-35 (.314)
NE 14-42 (.250)
GB 30-29-1 (.508)
NO 32-28-1 (.533)
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Lol at Sporting News having the Saints at #4 in their power rankings.
Bigger LOL at people who get salty over power rankings? Boo-hoo, somebody you don't even know things the team that wears colors you like isn't as good as you think they are.
SF and NE have played insanely easy schedules and, as far as I know, haven't had any major players out for significant amounts of time.
Oh, really? Let me check on that for you...
-Kyle Juszczyk: 49ers starting fullback, whom they run their entire offense around.
-Mike McGlincey: 49ers starting OT
-Joe Staley: 49ers starting OT
-Ahkello Witherspoon: 49ers starting CB
-K'Waun Williams: 49ers starting CB
They also had Dee Ford, D.J. Jones, Raheem Mostert, George Kittle, Tevin Coleman, and Jalen Hurd miss time. Just off the top my my head. But even if we just stick to the ones that have been out most of the season thus far, we have half their offensive line, their Pro Bowl full back, and both corners. I think they've had some "major players" out for significant time.
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Lol you called me out of line a few pages back for having a back and forth with dublagent in which zero name-calling occurred and no legit swearing took place yet you jump in and get snarky with me when I was comparing teams and not referring to any members. Nice hypocrisy.
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King, I have no idea what you are saying.
Yeah, I'm pretty lost as well.
(https://i.imgflip.com/3em9wv.jpg)
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Wow, over confident both of you are. I expect losses while you expect to plow right through.
You'd think I'd be the confidant one.
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Don't worry, we'll still tell you all of our secrets.
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It's going to be really interesting when the 9ers play the Saints later this season. It's too bad that game probably won't be a flex candidate with the SNF game being Seattle @ Los Angeles that week.
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Don't worry, we'll still tell you all of our secrets.
Never tell what we whisper in bed.
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Oh, really? Let me check on that for you...
-Kyle Juszczyk: 49ers starting fullback, whom they run their entire offense around.
-Mike McGlincey: 49ers starting OT
-Joe Staley: 49ers starting OT
-Ahkello Witherspoon: 49ers starting CB
-K'Waun Williams: 49ers starting CB
They also had Dee Ford, D.J. Jones, Raheem Mostert, George Kittle, Tevin Coleman, and Jalen Hurd miss time. Just off the top my my head. But even if we just stick to the ones that have been out most of the season thus far, we have half their offensive line, their Pro Bowl full back, and both corners. I think they've had some "major players" out for significant time.
That's rough, but the Patriots have it worse. Best fullback in the league, LT and C, their two best receivers not named Julian, and the kicker. But yeah, either way, fuck the Saints.
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Don't worry, we'll still tell you all of our secrets.
Never tell what we whisper in bed.
Um yeah....back to football.... :lol
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Lol at Sporting News having the Saints at #4 in their power rankings. SF and NE have played insanely easy schedules and, as far as I know, haven't had any major players out for significant amounts of time. Also, GB's strength of schedule is weaker than the Saints', their only loss is to a 4-4 Eagles (at home) as opposed to the 5-3 Rams that the Saints' lone loss came against (on the road) plus that game involved Drew Brees going out with an injury and an "accidentally" whistled dead 83-yard fumble return for a TD by Cam Jordan. Meanwhile, the Packers got all they could handle from a Mahomes-less, Matt Moore-led Chiefs team and were given the most lopsidedly beneficial officiating this side of last season's NFC CG in the Lions game. Meanwhile, the Saints' D has become ferocious allowing just 13.3 ppg the last 3 games (15 of which were in garbage time at the Bears while running the clock out following a 36-10 lead), 7 fewer on the season than the Packers, and the offense has scored just 20 fewer points than GB's despite only having Brees for 8.5 quarters of actual game time of the 32 they've played this season. Also, two straight games with Alvin Kamara out with an injury and Latavius Murray is straight killin it with back-to-back 100-yard games and 86 yards receiving the last two games.
I just can't see how any rational person could think the Saints are any lower than #2 and even if they were #2 it'd be an unenviable task to explain why anyone else is actually better.
Here are these four teams' respective SOS figures.
SF 16-35 (.314)
NE 14-42 (.250)
GB 30-29-1 (.508)
NO 32-28-1 (.533)
Tony Dungy called them the best team in football last night.
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Oh, really? Let me check on that for you...
-Kyle Juszczyk: 49ers starting fullback, whom they run their entire offense around.
-Mike McGlincey: 49ers starting OT
-Joe Staley: 49ers starting OT
-Ahkello Witherspoon: 49ers starting CB
-K'Waun Williams: 49ers starting CB
They also had Dee Ford, D.J. Jones, Raheem Mostert, George Kittle, Tevin Coleman, and Jalen Hurd miss time. Just off the top my my head. But even if we just stick to the ones that have been out most of the season thus far, we have half their offensive line, their Pro Bowl full back, and both corners. I think they've had some "major players" out for significant time.
That's rough, but the Patriots have it worse. Best fullback in the league, LT and C, their two best receivers not named Julian, and the kicker. But yeah, either way, fuck the Saints.
Lol. You'd think a Pats fan wouldn't have an axe to grind with a team they only play once every four years.
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Speaking of NE, Pittsburgh is making Miami look like their division colleagues tonight. This football game is brutal to watch. I may go back to Ridiculousness.
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Speaking of NE, Pittsburgh is making Miami look like their division colleagues tonight. This football game is brutal to watch. I may go back to Ridiculousness.
You’ll recall a few days ago I advised everyone to put everything they owned on Miami to cover against Mike Tomlin. I’ve never gambled in my life, but were any of you smart enough to take that easy money?
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Oh geez Fitzmagic doing his best to blow this. Good thing I don’t bet. :lol
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Oh geez Fitzmagic doing his best to blow this. Good thing I don’t bet. :lol
I do have to give Tomlin credit for something. The team is playing good defense and running the ball effectively. It's not pretty, but it works. It could be interesting to see how the rest of the season goes. It wouldn't surprise me to see them lose a lot more games, or be in contention for a wildcard. They're one of those teams that you don't really know what kind of result that you'll get in the long run.
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Well I needn’t have worried. Even coming off a bye, at home, against a winless team, there was no way a Mike Tomlin led team would cover a spread that big. I’m sure some folks made some easy money betting on Miami.
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Lol you called me out of line a few pages back for having a back and forth with dublagent in which zero name-calling occurred and no legit swearing took place yet you jump in and get snarky with me when I was comparing teams and not referring to any members. Nice hypocrisy.
Funny how whenever someone has to be corrected for acting like an idiot, the fallback is "oh hypocrisy!" The common thread in both posts is you coming in here and acting like an idiot. Either grow up or post somewhere else.
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Oh, really? Let me check on that for you...
-Kyle Juszczyk: 49ers starting fullback, whom they run their entire offense around.
-Mike McGlincey: 49ers starting OT
-Joe Staley: 49ers starting OT
-Ahkello Witherspoon: 49ers starting CB
-K'Waun Williams: 49ers starting CB
They also had Dee Ford, D.J. Jones, Raheem Mostert, George Kittle, Tevin Coleman, and Jalen Hurd miss time. Just off the top my my head. But even if we just stick to the ones that have been out most of the season thus far, we have half their offensive line, their Pro Bowl full back, and both corners. I think they've had some "major players" out for significant time.
That's rough, but the Patriots have it worse. Best fullback in the league, LT and C, their two best receivers not named Julian, and the kicker. But yeah, either way, fuck the Saints.
No dispute from me. But I haven't been following the Pats' season closely enough to have the details, so I figured I'd just stick with what I know. Either way, the point we are both responding to was provably false.
But as for the bigger point about who the "best" team in the NFC is, I think it's honestly a toss-up. I have no problem with rankings that put any of SF, NO, or GB at the top. Pit any of those teams against any of the others, and I have a hard time saying who could come out on top. GB feels like maybe they are a step behind the other two. But I have a very tough time betting against Rodgers when he's hot. And he's definitely playing hot right now. With those teams looking like the favorites, it is going to be an interesting second half of a season. Looking at the schedules, NO and GB have pretty soft schedules, while the '9ers have a pretty tough stretch with Seattle, GB, NO, and Baltimore all in the back half. That could prove to be the equalizer.
For the '9ers, I think the key game for them on the schedule is the GB game. They struggled in the rain against the Redskins. I think they'd struggle against the Packers on the frozen tundra come playoff time. They need that tiebreaker over the Packers to keep any potential playoff matchup against them on the west coast. And I'm not underrating the Saints. But if I had to pick a team for the '9ers to play on the road in the playoffs, I would rather have them playing inside a dome in New Orleans than outside in Green Bay. Of course, it's a moot point if they stay ahead of both teams. But again, with the schedules the way they are on the back half, I couldn't tell you how they will finish by the end of the season. I fully expect those teams to be the top 3. But as far as actual seeding, I have no clue who the "better" team is right now.
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The GB at SF and SF at NO games will obviously go a long way in deciding the top 3 seeds in the NFC, if we can assume those three teams keep this up and end up as the top 3. Gun to my head, I think the Saints are the best of the three right now, but I always have trouble trusting their defense in the playoffs, and they seem to find ways to have crushing playoff losses, so just because I think they might be the best of the three doesn't mean I think they will be the NFC representative in the Super Bowl. There is still a lot of ball to be played.
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Yeah, I hear you. I don't hate the chances any of those 3 have.
Now the AFC, that's a different story altogether...
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Cowherd, Steven A. & Kellerman all say the Pats are 3rd in all their rankings. Lolololol. They rank like it's college.
There's a good chance they will lose and if that happens then you can drop them dummies.
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Cowherd, Steven A. & Kellerman all say the Pats are 3rd in all their rankings. Lolololol. They rank like it's college.
There's a good chance they will lose and if that happens then you can drop them dummies.
strength of schedule knocks them to 3? :lol like what happened to Alabama this week? what a joke those guys are
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I have no issue with someone making a list and taking SOS in consideration.
The Pats' schedule so far has been downright shameful.
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I definitely think strength of schedule can be a real, credible factor to weigh in. But once you've racked up 7 or 8 wins or more, I think it has much less significance. I can't see strength of schedule being enough to take the Pats out of the #1 spot right now.
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If that's the case then they wouldn't have been #1 in their poles with the SOS.
It was their lackluster win against the Browns. Lol
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They don't pass the eye test though? They haven't consistently been the best team in the NFL for 2 decades? It's not college ball where teams don't play each other and talent gaps are huge so you have to consider SOS, anyone who doesn't think right now the Pats are the best team in the NFL can't be taken seriously.
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Well in their defense you want controversy because it draws people in to watch and argue.
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They don't pass the eye test though? They haven't consistently been the best team in the NFL for 2 decades? It's not college ball where teams don't play each other and talent gaps are huge so you have to consider SOS, anyone who doesn't think right now the Pats are the best team in the NFL can't be taken seriously.
I would have to agree.
Well in their defense you want controversy because it draws people in to watch and argue.
But it's only controversial because it is such a dumb opinion.
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Right bosk1 but it draws us in to berate them. I'm guilty.
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Lol you called me out of line a few pages back for having a back and forth with dublagent in which zero name-calling occurred and no legit swearing took place yet you jump in and get snarky with me when I was comparing teams and not referring to any members. Nice hypocrisy.
Funny how whenever someone has to be corrected for acting like an idiot, the fallback is "oh hypocrisy!" The common thread in both posts is you coming in here and acting like an idiot. Either grow up or post somewhere else.
I criticized a website that has nothing to do with DTF, I didn't come at any members. Based on the way you felt it necessary to get smug with that boo hoo nonsense, it seems like you took it personally cuz your team was involved. After accusing me of baiting someone else recently, you're looking pretty damn hypocritical if benign criticisms of an organization you have no real world ties to makes you do the same thing you griped at me about. Take a step back and look in the mirror some time.
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Lol you called me out of line a few pages back for having a back and forth with dublagent in which zero name-calling occurred and no legit swearing took place yet you jump in and get snarky with me when I was comparing teams and not referring to any members. Nice hypocrisy.
Funny how whenever someone has to be corrected for acting like an idiot, the fallback is "oh hypocrisy!" The common thread in both posts is you coming in here and acting like an idiot. Either grow up or post somewhere else.
I criticized a website that has nothing to do with DTF, I didn't come at any members. Based on the way you felt it necessary to get smug with that boo hoo nonsense, it seems like you took it personally cuz your team was involved. After accusing me of baiting someone else recently, you're looking pretty damn hypocritical if benign criticisms of an organization you have no real world ties to makes you do the same thing you griped at me about. Take a step back and look in the mirror some time.
Wrong on all counts. Keeping a careful count through the years, I can tell you exactly the number of times I have come in here and thrown a tantrum and acted like a complete dick over a sports team I like: zero. But my behavior here isn't the issue. Yours is. And if you want to continue to double down on your childish behavior, you can do so in the Yahoo Sports comments section or somewhere else, not here.
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By all means, point to where I acted in a manner noticeably worse than the person with whom I was debating. You're very clearly the only one doubling down since you already showed up to this thread and got rude with me cuz I criticized the niners, not any person, but specifically a few NFL teams but you clearly took it personally. Then, after you clearly showed a lack of maturity and tact, YOU doubled down by thinly veiling your attempts to straight up call me an idiot and a dick. If someone had pulled that with you they'd already be on a temp ban at the very least.
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If you insulted the '9ers, I don't really care. None of them are family and they aren't giving me a paycheck. You aren't being shown the door for that. You are being shown the door for your conduct in this thread after being told to cool it when you went after someone else. You wanna pick fights with me for being told you are out of line? I don't have time for that. Bye.
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Wrong on all counts. Keeping a careful count through the years, I can tell you exactly the number of times I have come in here and thrown a tantrum and acted like a complete dick over a sports team I like: zero. But my behavior here isn't the issue. Yours is. And if you want to continue to double down on your childish behavior, you can do so in the Yahoo Sports comments section or somewhere else, not here.
Really? You really wanna go there? You and I had a few exchanges a few years back when I cared about the NFL. Look, I haven't followed this thread at all, so as an unbiased observer - simply reading over the last 2 pages - you're the one that deserves the flag Bosk, not Josh. YOU were the first to quip ("Oh, boo hoo") and then insult / name call ("acting like and idiot"), and would warn or ban anyone for that kind of commentary. See rule #3 of this forum - or are you exempt from following the rules you enforce on everyone else?
I'm on team Josh over this one. I've told you over PM that I'm terrible at letting bull-shit slide, and this is bull-shit as I see it.
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Yeah I'm not seeing any solid wrongdoing on Josh's part either....
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Going back a bit on Lamar Jackson. He was the first in the SB era with over 200+ passing and 150+ rushing in a game. He was the first ever with two straight 100+ yards rushing and a TD in two straight games.
<snip>
I can see this team making the Super Bowl. I can also see them going 9-7 in this fickle week to week league.
I hope you take this in the spirit intended - objective football discussion - and not petty pissing on your parade, but enjoy him while you can. History shows that's not a winning combination. He's most often compared to Michael Vick, who, while an amazing athlete (I mean, once in a generation athlete) has zero Super Bowl wins to his credit, and will be a footnote in NFL history, for off the field tom-foolery. He's often compared to Colin Kaepernick, who, while an amazing athlete, has zero Super Bowl wins to his credit, and will be a footnote in NFL history, for off the field shenanigans. Other names that come up often: Cam Newton, who, while a very good athlete, has zero Super Bowl wins to his credit, and will likely be a footnote in NFL history, for off the field balderdash. The only one that gets mentioned in this conversation that defies this trend is Russell Wilson, and his "history" is not the same, in that he will rush when he has to, but recognizes that he doesn't have to more often than not (his season high is something like 850 yards, and his average per season is under 500).
I can see the Ravens making a dent in the playoffs, but if they are going to rely on one guy for that kind of production to be the difference, they aren't getting past the Patriots, and they might not get past the Bills (though the other side of the ball may change that). Even if "ANY GIVEN SUNDAY", they will still likely have to get by the Rams or the Saints, and I just don't see Wade Phillips getting beat by one guy like that (see Super Bowl 50).
Sorry, I'm impressed with Lamar Jackson as an athlete, not so much as a quarterback.
I'll agree with all of that, with a caveat or two. Kaepernick gets the 49ers into the SB in '11 if their back up returner doesn't screw them over twice against the Giants. The following year, in their last drive against the Ravens (which shouldn't have mattered had the officials not swallowed their whistles on the previous Ravens drive) he wins the SB for the if Jim Harbaugh doesn't have him pass those last four plays. And they lost a tough one the next year against Seattle.
If you reach a SB, you're still the champ of sixteen teams. Not bad.
Trent Dilfer won a SB with throws on crossing patterns that were at the ankles and a yard behind the receivers on numerous occasions. Lamar has eliminated those lapses this year ;) He's worked hard, grown over the past year, and I hope the improvements continue. He has the weapons this year (if they can get/stay healthy). I enjoy watching the style I grew up with while watching Michigan and Central Michigan beat teams with option, ball control offense to chew up 6-8 minutes of the clock on each possession.
How long that plays out......well, I'd love 'W' this Sunday. After that........
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Wrong on all counts. Keeping a careful count through the years, I can tell you exactly the number of times I have come in here and thrown a tantrum and acted like a complete dick over a sports team I like: zero. But my behavior here isn't the issue. Yours is. And if you want to continue to double down on your childish behavior, you can do so in the Yahoo Sports comments section or somewhere else, not here.
Really? You really wanna go there? You and I had a few exchanges a few years back when I cared about the NFL. Look, I haven't followed this thread at all, so as an unbiased observer - simply reading over the last 2 pages - you're the one that deserves the flag Bosk, not Josh. YOU were the first to quip ("Oh, boo hoo") and then insult / name call ("acting like and idiot"), and would warn or ban anyone for that kind of commentary. See rule #3 of this forum - or are you exempt from following the rules you enforce on everyone else?
I'm on team Josh over this one. I've told you over PM that I'm terrible at letting bull-shit slide, and this is bull-shit as I see it.
Thank you for your opinion. And apparently, we need a more general reminder of forum rules and decorum. And as it clearly states right up front in the forum rules, and as you well know as someone who has been here a long time, if you disagree with a mod decision, you may PM a mod about it--NOT further derail the thread by posting about the mod decision in the thread. If you have an issue, handle it properly, or you can join "team Josh" elsewhere. That's all I'll say about that. Now let's please get the thread back on topic. Thanks.
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Kaepernick gets the 49ers into the SB in '11 if their back up returner doesn't screw them over twice against the Giants.
Alex Smith--NOT Colin Kaepernick.
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Wrong on all counts. Keeping a careful count through the years, I can tell you exactly the number of times I have come in here and thrown a tantrum and acted like a complete dick over a sports team I like: zero. But my behavior here isn't the issue. Yours is. And if you want to continue to double down on your childish behavior, you can do so in the Yahoo Sports comments section or somewhere else, not here.
Really? You really wanna go there? You and I had a few exchanges a few years back when I cared about the NFL. Look, I haven't followed this thread at all, so as an unbiased observer - simply reading over the last 2 pages - you're the one that deserves the flag Bosk, not Josh. YOU were the first to quip ("Oh, boo hoo") and then insult / name call ("acting like and idiot"), and would warn or ban anyone for that kind of commentary. See rule #3 of this forum - or are you exempt from following the rules you enforce on everyone else?
I'm on team Josh over this one. I've told you over PM that I'm terrible at letting bull-shit slide, and this is bull-shit as I see it.
Thank you for your opinion. And apparently, we need a more general reminder of forum rules and decorum. And as it clearly states right up front in the forum rules, and as you well know as someone who has been here a long time, if you disagree with a mod decision, you may PM a mod about it--NOT further derail the thread by posting about the mod decision in the thread. If you have an issue, handle it properly, or you can join "team Josh" elsewhere. That's all I'll say about that. Now let's please get the thread back on topic. Thanks.
All I'm suggesting is that you hold yourself accountable to the same standards as you insist others to follow ... "handle it properly". Leaders lead, and you're ultimate leader at DTF. To your very point above, maybe if you'd taken it to PM with Josh, things wouldn't have been terminated via a ban. Surely that's not something that can't be said in public - who mods the Mod?? :rollin (tongue FIRMLY planted in cheek in case it's not clear).
With that, I'll gracefully exit as I have nothing to contribute to the NFL conversation. Just had to say offer my thoughts since you felt the need to silence Josh.
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just here to offer my agreement and support to the above thoughts
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Wow... first time I've had someone offer me their thoughts and prayers for my well-being. :lol :lol
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+1
Not sure I saw anything THAT bad that wasn't made worse by what should have been a PM in the first place (according to the rules that seem to be applied conveniently at times) I did think the initial spat was a bit uncalled for but it was already over before it got worse. It's NFL debate, some smack talk is normal IMO although I know we hold ourselves to higher standards here. Anyway, sucks to see a regular poster get a ban over this.
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I'll agree with all of that, with a caveat or two. Kaepernick gets the 49ers into the SB in '11 if their back up returner doesn't screw them over twice against the Giants. The following year, in their last drive against the Ravens (which shouldn't have mattered had the officials not swallowed their whistles on the previous Ravens drive) he wins the SB for the if Jim Harbaugh doesn't have him pass those last four plays. And they lost a tough one the next year against Seattle.
If you reach a SB, you're still the champ of sixteen teams. Not bad.
Trent Dilfer won a SB with throws on crossing patterns that were at the ankles and a yard behind the receivers on numerous occasions. Lamar has eliminated those lapses this year ;) He's worked hard, grown over the past year, and I hope the improvements continue. He has the weapons this year (if they can get/stay healthy). I enjoy watching the style I grew up with while watching Michigan and Central Michigan beat teams with option, ball control offense to chew up 6-8 minutes of the clock on each possession.
How long that plays out......well, I'd love 'W' this Sunday. After that........
I'm not really an "if" guy. "If" David Tyree doesn't have Stick'um on his helmet, if Mario Manningham didn't defy the laws of physics... we can do this all day long. Fact is, they/he didn't. If Kaepernick did all that for more than two seasons, I'd be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. The league has a way of catching on, and the truly greats end up staying a step ahead.
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Wrong on all counts. Keeping a careful count through the years, I can tell you exactly the number of times I have come in here and thrown a tantrum and acted like a complete dick over a sports team I like: zero. But my behavior here isn't the issue. Yours is. And if you want to continue to double down on your childish behavior, you can do so in the Yahoo Sports comments section or somewhere else, not here.
Really? You really wanna go there? You and I had a few exchanges a few years back when I cared about the NFL. Look, I haven't followed this thread at all, so as an unbiased observer - simply reading over the last 2 pages - you're the one that deserves the flag Bosk, not Josh. YOU were the first to quip ("Oh, boo hoo") and then insult / name call ("acting like and idiot"), and would warn or ban anyone for that kind of commentary. See rule #3 of this forum - or are you exempt from following the rules you enforce on everyone else?
I'm on team Josh over this one. I've told you over PM that I'm terrible at letting bull-shit slide, and this is bull-shit as I see it.
Yeah I'm not seeing any solid wrongdoing on Josh's part either....
Guys, for the record, you have to go back further than 2 pages to see where it started (more like 9 pages). That's when it started between Josh and I after the Dallas/NO game. We had a couple of exchanges then I let it go. Josh was warned long before the last 2 pages. Just thought I'd clarify that.
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I'll agree with all of that, with a caveat or two. Kaepernick gets the 49ers into the SB in '11 if their back up returner doesn't screw them over twice against the Giants. The following year, in their last drive against the Ravens (which shouldn't have mattered had the officials not swallowed their whistles on the previous Ravens drive) he wins the SB for the if Jim Harbaugh doesn't have him pass those last four plays. And they lost a tough one the next year against Seattle.
If you reach a SB, you're still the champ of sixteen teams. Not bad.
Trent Dilfer won a SB with throws on crossing patterns that were at the ankles and a yard behind the receivers on numerous occasions. Lamar has eliminated those lapses this year ;) He's worked hard, grown over the past year, and I hope the improvements continue. He has the weapons this year (if they can get/stay healthy). I enjoy watching the style I grew up with while watching Michigan and Central Michigan beat teams with option, ball control offense to chew up 6-8 minutes of the clock on each possession.
How long that plays out......well, I'd love 'W' this Sunday. After that........
I'm not really an "if" guy. "If" David Tyree doesn't have Stick'um on his helmet, if Mario Manningham didn't defy the laws of physics... we can do this all day long. Fact is, they/he didn't. If Kaepernick did all that for more than two seasons, I'd be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. The league has a way of catching on, and the truly greats end up staying a step ahead.
Or, conversely, if the tuck rule isn't magically applied; if Carroll doesn't have a brain fart; if a Chief doesn't get flagged for a phantom roughing call; if Matt Ryan could make one damn play in the second half . . .
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I'll agree with all of that, with a caveat or two. Kaepernick gets the 49ers into the SB in '11 if their back up returner doesn't screw them over twice against the Giants. The following year, in their last drive against the Ravens (which shouldn't have mattered had the officials not swallowed their whistles on the previous Ravens drive) he wins the SB for the if Jim Harbaugh doesn't have him pass those last four plays. And they lost a tough one the next year against Seattle.
If you reach a SB, you're still the champ of sixteen teams. Not bad.
Trent Dilfer won a SB with throws on crossing patterns that were at the ankles and a yard behind the receivers on numerous occasions. Lamar has eliminated those lapses this year ;) He's worked hard, grown over the past year, and I hope the improvements continue. He has the weapons this year (if they can get/stay healthy). I enjoy watching the style I grew up with while watching Michigan and Central Michigan beat teams with option, ball control offense to chew up 6-8 minutes of the clock on each possession.
How long that plays out......well, I'd love 'W' this Sunday. After that........
I'm not really an "if" guy. "If" David Tyree doesn't have Stick'um on his helmet, if Mario Manningham didn't defy the laws of physics... we can do this all day long. Fact is, they/he didn't. If Kaepernick did all that for more than two seasons, I'd be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. The league has a way of catching on, and the truly greats end up staying a step ahead.
Or, conversely, if the tuck rule isn't magically applied; if Carroll doesn't have a brain fart; if a Chief doesn't get flagged for a phantom roughing call; if Matt Ryan could make one damn play in the second half . . .
Well, you're clearly pursuing an agenda ("magically"? "phantom"?), I'm not, though the point stands. It all evens out in the end, and if Kaeprnick was there year in and year out, we wouldn't be talking about this. But he wasn't, and we are.
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Magically applied? Lol. It was called earlier in the year that caused the Pats to lose. It was a bad rule but a rule nonetheless.
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Thought I would give some context as to how good the Niners defense has been this year https://www.sbnation.com/2019/10/31/20942025/dorktown-san-francisco-49ers-pass-defense-sacks-buckner-bosa-armstead-ford-sherman-ward-tartt
Quite possibly the best pass defense in the Superbowl Era.
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Thought I would give some context as to how good the Niners defense has been this year https://www.sbnation.com/2019/10/31/20942025/dorktown-san-francisco-49ers-pass-defense-sacks-buckner-bosa-armstead-ford-sherman-ward-tartt
Quite possibly the best pass defense in the Superbowl Era.
Wow. That's pretty impressive. But that said, I do think a very unique set of circumstances is skewing that data just a bit, and I'm VERY hesitant to extrapolate that kind of data over an entire season. I'm not discounting that their defense is good. BUT through just dumb luck, they've had as week a first 7 game schedule as you can have. They've had a lot of things go their way. If anything close to that still holds up by week 17, then we'll truly be talking about one of the great all-time defenses in history. And I wouldn't be surprised if we end up there. I'm just hesitant to pull the trigger on that type of claim so soon.
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Look, I don't want to be that guy and I'm LOATHE to burst Bosk's bubble, because it's exciting and they ARE a good team, no question. But NFL history is littered with teams that strung together a-MAZ-ing half seasons, and even full seasons, and then... look at the Eagles now. They're a shadow of their Super Bowl team. Look at virtually any Andy Reid team.
Again, they're good. Let's see how it goes for the rest of the year.
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I think that's pretty much what I just said. :lol So no bubble bursting as far as I'm concerned.
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Thought I would give some context as to how good the Niners defense has been this year https://www.sbnation.com/2019/10/31/20942025/dorktown-san-francisco-49ers-pass-defense-sacks-buckner-bosa-armstead-ford-sherman-ward-tartt
Quite possibly the best pass defense in the Superbowl Era.
Wow. That's pretty impressive. But that said, I do think a very unique set of circumstances is skewing that data just a bit, and I'm VERY hesitant to extrapolate that kind of data over an entire season. I'm not discounting that their defense is good. BUT through just dumb luck, they've had as week a first 7 game schedule as you can have. They've had a lot of things go their way. If anything close to that still holds up by week 17, then we'll truly be talking about one of the great all-time defenses in history. And I wouldn't be surprised if we end up there. I'm just hesitant to pull the trigger on that type of claim so soon.
Oh yeah, we will definitely have to wait to see how the rest of the season plays out, but even though their first 7 games haven't been against the greatest of teams the numbers are still super impressive. I mean these are still NFL teams we are talking about here. I get what you are saying about extrapolating their performance over the course of the entire season though. I do think that if their performance against the Panthers was any indication we may be in for a historic season on defense.
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SF is fielding an elite, fearsome D right now, but those are some noticeably specific stats. I was hoping for an article on how they're doing it, there are plenty about how NE is playing D right now, but it's really just a series of odd metrics showing how good two aspects of their D are comparatively.
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There are plenty of those out there too if you search. Here's an excellent breakdown of their D in the Carolina game specifically:
https://www.ninersnation.com/2019/10/30/20938296/the-49ers-defense-suffocated-the-panthers
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There are plenty of those out there too if you search. Here's an excellent breakdown of their D in the Carolina game specifically:
https://www.ninersnation.com/2019/10/30/20938296/the-49ers-defense-suffocated-the-panthers
That's interesting. For that game, at least, they're doing the exact opposite of what the Patriots are up to. Letting a solid front 4 handle the LoS while doing wild and wacky things with the linebackers and secondary. NE is letting it's secondary dominate receivers in man coverage so it can utilize the front 7 however it likes. Same idea, rely on your dominant group to hold so as to free up the rest of the D, just from the other side.
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Interesting win last night. I'm not sure which I prefer: A team that so consistently does a couple of things well, where every team knows what's coming, but they still can't stop it, or a team that takes whatever the other team throws at them, and finds different ways to win no matter what. The 49ers are more of the latter. Last night, the defense was getting uncharacteristically gashed and the running game was just so-so, so Jimmy G. turned into a gunslinger and threw for 4 touchdowns and put the team on his back to complete impossible passes to melt the clock on the last drive. Who are these guys?
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That was a great game! The Cardinals had a good go in the 4th qtr, but as you said Jimmy G managed to make the 3rd down conversions look too easy along with his receiving core. I'm a bit worried for the Seahawks next weekend, they better be on the top of their game to have any chance of beating the 49ers. We shall see!
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That was a great game! The Cardinals had a good go in the 4th qtr, but as you said Jimmy G managed to make the 3rd down conversions look too easy along with his receiving core. I'm a bit worried for the Seahawks next weekend, they better be on the top of their game to have any chance of beating the 49ers. We shall see!
Oh I hope it'll be a great game. Hopefully not one full of Penalties.
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I'm not one of those that says "If only..." but that time out with 3 seconds left in the first half was a gift from the old gods and the new. (Though I'm not one of those roasting Kingsbury; I'm not sure how that's a "rookie mistake", since he called it before the snap; I'm fairly certain that had he known, he would have not called it. I'm also not that critical of the challenge against the first down in the fourth quarter; sure he burned a timeout, but he gets that call it changes the next 2:00 sequence).
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That was a great game! The Cardinals had a good go in the 4th qtr, but as you said Jimmy G managed to make the 3rd down conversions look too easy along with his receiving core. I'm a bit worried for the Seahawks next weekend, they better be on the top of their game to have any chance of beating the 49ers. We shall see!
Oh I hope it'll be a great game. Hopefully not one full of Penalties.
Oh, I'm sure the refs will do their share in the penalty dept. :lol
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Adam Gase shouldn’t survive the plane ride home.
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Adam Gase shouldn’t survive the plane ride home.
None of them do. Those people played like clowns. And what was with the time out with 7 seconds left? Show some fucking dignity, FFS.
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It's amazing how many bad head coaches there are in the NFL right now, and Gase might be the worst of the bunch.
And how embarrassing does that Dallas loss to the Jets look now? :lol :lol
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The Browns don't have someone in charge of this stuff?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/obj-landry-told-to-change-cleats-or-not-play-in-second-half/ar-AAJMLbc?li=BBnb7Kz
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The Browns don't have someone in charge of this stuff?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/obj-landry-told-to-change-cleats-or-not-play-in-second-half/ar-AAJMLbc?li=BBnb7Kz
It doesn't help that:
a) Freddie Kitchens is a first year head coach and not a good one. Probably has little control over such matters.
b) Beckham is a clown who wants attention and will probably cry about this on social media in the next 48 hours.
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What a fucking train wreck. Why anyone would think it was a good idea to have Beckham on their team is beyond me.
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Kev, I blame the GM & Owner for getting volatile players and not a coach that can demand respect.
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I don't like the Pats tonight.
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Well they better adjust to the option play.
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Kev, I blame the GM & Owner for getting volatile players and not a coach that can demand respect.
Exactly. With all of those players who love drama, they needed a veteran coach who could keep them in line. They look like a team with zero discipline.
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Well, Ravens gameplan has been impeccable so far.
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Hey Pats D. Let them pass. Ooooff.
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Classic Cyrus Jones. Thank you.
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The Browns don't have someone in charge of this stuff?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/obj-landry-told-to-change-cleats-or-not-play-in-second-half/ar-AAJMLbc?li=BBnb7Kz
It doesn't help that:
a) Freddie Kitchens is a first year head coach and not a good one. Probably has little control over such matters.
b) Beckham is a clown who wants attention and will probably cry about this on social media in the next 48 hours.
I didn't watch the whole thing, but that certainly looked like a pouting OBJ down the sideline with 2:00 left, as Mayfield went across the middle to Landry on their last ditch effort.
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Looks like NE is finally playing an NFL team.
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Get your ass in the endzone Ravens. I hope you lose for that shit.
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Get your ass in the endzone Ravens. I hope you lose for that shit.
You saw that too? In my opinion, it's almost worth the 15 yard unsportsmanlike to hand him his hot-dogging ass.
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You beat us, you beat us. Flaunting asks for redemption.
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Get your ass in the endzone Ravens. I hope you lose for that shit.
You saw that too? In my opinion, it's almost worth the 15 yard unsportsmanlike to hand him his hot-dogging ass.
Right? Nice little decapitation would teach him a lesson.
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Ravens will win but we will see you in Foxborough in January.
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Wow...who had the Niners as the last unbeaten team, raise your hands....
Sure as fuck wasn't me.
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What's wrong with NE is temporary. If they don't keep making stupid mistakes, dumb TOs, drops, and penalties, this is a very different game. Playing stupid is something NE does very infrequently. They'll probably drop another one like this before they move on to Cincinnati, then they'll be fine.
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Wow...who had the Niners as the last unbeaten team, raise your hands....
Sure as fuck wasn't me.
Yea really. Hopefully they'll slip and the Seahawks can edge them out of the top of the division.
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Wow...who had the Niners as the last unbeaten team, raise your hands....
Sure as fuck wasn't me.
Yea really. Hopefully they'll slip and the Seahawks can edge them out of the top of the division.
Or not, that'd be cool too. :biggrin:
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Wow...who had the Niners as the last unbeaten team, raise your hands....
Sure as fuck wasn't me.
NOBODY! [/Harbaugh]
:biggrin:
But in all seriousness, with their schedule finally getting tougher in the next few weeks and Alexander being out, I'm bracing for the worst. I hope it all doesn't come crashing down.
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Get healthy and play well going into the playoffs is the most important thing on the plates of the possible 1 and 2 seeds.
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For sure. I'm glad the '9ers get this "mini-bye" before the Seattle game next Monday. Gives them time to rest and get healthy, and to really do their homework to prep for this game. If they can beat Seattle and then beat the Cards again at home the following week, that will make them 4-0 in the division, with at least a 3 game lead over Seattle, which will put them in great position to win the division AND still rest a bit at the end of the season.
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Weird stat including next week's game against the Eagles. The Pats have played 3 teams in a row that are coming off a bye week.
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(https://i.redd.it/7jm9f8m6mad11.jpg)
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I love that movie.
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Ravens will win but we will see you in Foxborough in January.
Having gone to the game last night, I would love to see that :tup
Then again, Bill will change a couple of schemes, a couple of big plays that went the Ravens way won't, and ....oh, hell, that's for another time. I'll guarantee though, that if they jump out to a big early lead, that there won't be any attempted fair catch inside the 20.
Didn't appreciate the few trash talking fans from both sides, but overall enjoyed the atmosphere. It had a playoff intensity. And we did a first by spending the day and night downtown. There was good natured ribbing. There was the 'respect' factor from both sides. The final result certainly didn't hurt ;)
And, we got to see Brady in person, and Ed Reed get his HOF ring. No complaints.
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Wow...who had the Niners as the last unbeaten team, raise your hands....
Sure as fuck wasn't me.
Yea really. Hopefully they'll slip and the Seahawks can edge them out of the top of the division.
I will be stunned if that happens. The 49ers roster is way more talented than the Seahawks roster at this point. Seattle would be a 4-5 or 3-6 team right now at best without Russell Wilson, who, to me, is the clear MVP at this point. It ain't close.
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For sure. I'm glad the '9ers get this "mini-bye" before the Seattle game next Monday. Gives them time to rest and get healthy, and to really do their homework to prep for this game. If they can beat Seattle and then beat the Cards again at home the following week, that will make them 4-0 in the division, with at least a 3 game lead over Seattle, which will put them in great position to win the division AND still rest a bit at the end of the season.
Yup, the extra few days rest should do the team wonders for recouperation and prep time. I think this season was just what I needed to get my ass back into NFL football.
Well, that and Sundays off doesn't hurt either. :laugh:
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My two cents....odd that someone can agree with most of what I write, I read between the lines and agree with what they say, and yet, there still has to be some sort of frickin' argument or 'I'm right and you're wrong' mentality ......when we're basically saying the same stuff.
Whether it's on this thread, music, or my long ago ignored political section.....it's really tiresome.
Now, just you wait, someone will have to argue this comment. :facepalm:
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Now, just you wait, someone will have to argue this comment. :facepalm:
But...
:) :) :)
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Can't believe no one has mentioned the black cat Giant jinx. :lol :rollin :lol That was the best part of the game. :tup
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Ravens will win but we will see you in Foxborough in January.
Having gone to the game last night, I would love to see that :tup
Then again, Bill will change a couple of schemes, a couple of big plays that went the Ravens way won't, and ....oh, hell, that's for another time. I'll guarantee though, that if they jump out to a big early lead, that there won't be any attempted fair catch inside the 20.
Didn't appreciate the few trash talking fans from both sides, but overall enjoyed the atmosphere. It had a playoff intensity. And we did a first by spending the day and night downtown. There was good natured ribbing. There was the 'respect' factor from both sides. The final result certainly didn't hurt ;)
And, we got to see Brady in person, and Ed Reed get his HOF ring. No complaints.
The crowd sounded really loud! I love screaming my lungs out at home games.
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Can't believe no one has mentioned the black cat Giant jinx. :lol :rollin :lol That was the best part of the game. :tup
And the best part about the cat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTj8KydAlAc
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Can't believe no one has mentioned the black cat Giant jinx. :lol :rollin :lol That was the best part of the game. :tup
And the best part about the cat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTj8KydAlAc
He just wanted to live his dream on the field.
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
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Friggin' Oakland and their penalties. That's just a lack of discipline. They could be beating this Chargers team by 20, but instead they are down by four. Ridiculous.
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Are you still friggin' kidding me. Raiders answer the touchdown with a stellar drive, scoring with a minute to go... and blow the extra point. Chargers have the ball at the 25 with three timeouts, and a field goal wins it.
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The Raiders pass rush won that game, or maybe the Chargers o-line lost it. Rivers should have made some better decisions on that last drive, but he had no time to throw all night.
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How the fuck the Raiders manage to win this and last week is beyond me. They're doing everything they can to fuck up, yet managed to walk out of both weeks with a W.
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Looks like a typical Gruden team...tons of penalties. :lol
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I don't know if the penalties are a by-product of what they're trying to do (and they'll fine tune it as they go) or if it is just a lack of discipline, but if they ever fix that, they could be a sleeper team. I'm a fan; I've picked them a couple times this year (disappointed on a couple of them, but still...)
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Despite the numerous coaching changes, Oakland is almost always at or near the top of the list of most penalized teams. I went through it very quickly, but I think only twice since 2003 have the Raiders not been in the top 10. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalties-per-game?date=2019-11-10
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Suddenly, they are right in the thick of the AFC wildcard race. And they have a pretty light schedule, other than game at Arrowhead on 12/1.
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Despite the numerous coaching changes, Oakland is almost always at or near the top of the list of most penalized teams. I went through it very quickly, but I think only twice since 2003 have the Raiders not been in the top 10. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalties-per-game?date=2019-11-10
That might have more to do with the owner than the string of coaches they've had. Specifically a desire to maintain a certain mystique, going back to the days of Stabler and Madden. Would anybody be surprised if the Davis's mandated that Oakland be the "toughest" team in the NFL?
Suddenly, they are right in the thick of the AFC wildcard race. And they have a pretty light schedule, other than game at Arrowhead on 12/1.
I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe they're good enough or consistent enough to compete, though.
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Despite the numerous coaching changes, Oakland is almost always at or near the top of the list of most penalized teams. I went through it very quickly, but I think only twice since 2003 have the Raiders not been in the top 10. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalties-per-game?date=2019-11-10
That might have more to do with the owner than the string of coaches they've had. Specifically a desire to maintain a certain mystique, going back to the days of Stabler and Madden. Would anybody be surprised if the Davis's mandated that Oakland be the "toughest" team in the NFL?
That's exactly what I think it is.
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Suddenly, they are right in the thick of the AFC wildcard race. And they have a pretty light schedule, other than game at Arrowhead on 12/1.
I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe they're good enough or consistent enough to compete, though.
I haven't either. But looking at other teams with similar records, neither have any of those teams, so... :dunno:
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Jamal Adams snowing why the Jets should be doing everything in their power to hold on to him.
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Um, did the guy calling the Tampa/AZ game just say "what the fuck everybody?" What the fuck, everybody.
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Lamar Jackson being Lamar Jackson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iif2NWLiZZI
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That TD run 'broke the defender's ankles' per Kevin Harlen. Oh, and he hasn't been too bad the rest of the game.
He has more than a few to go, but no one's excited me like this since seeing Barry Sanders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GykaB6Fip8U
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How about them Saints, getting worked over by the Falcons :rollin
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I don’t care if the Jets win another game all year. That was satisfying to watch, especially with all of the shit that the Giants fans around me have been talking.
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The end of that Chiefs/Titans game was something else. The KC defense is still trash.
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The end of that Chiefs/Titans game was something else. The KC defense is still trash.
Mahomes’ career will be wasted unless they make Reid the OC and get a good defensive guy as HC.
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The end of that Chiefs/Titans game was something else. The KC defense is still trash.
Mahomes’ career will be wasted unless they make Reid the OC and get a good defensive guy as HC.
KC is wasting their window while Mahomes is playing on a rookie contract. Amazing that their defense is still such trash. They will still win 10-11 games and be a tough out in the playoffs, but I give them almost no shot to make the Super Bowl. Not with a defense that bad.
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I think it's become obvious that Dak Prescott is far more important to the Cowboys that Zeke Elliot is. Why Dallas decided to start running the ball inside the red zone on that late drive is beyond me, and probably cost them the game. Prescott had it rolling and was about to take them in for the go-ahead score late, and then the genius that is Jason Garrett decided to force feed it to their RB who had looked awful for most of the night. Smart move. :lol :lol
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If Seattle wants to have a chance, their secondary needs to learn to not be so grabby. They are REALLY missing Sherman's veteran leadership. :lol
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If Seattle wants to have a chance, their secondary needs to learn to not be so grabby. They are REALLY missing Sherman's veteran leadership. :lol
Seattle just looks outmatched in every way so far. My wife is a Seahawks fan (grew up in Tacoma), so I've been low-key laughing the entire game so far. :lol
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Damn, that was a dominating first quarter. If the Hawks can't get their shit together, this could be a long night for them.
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Carrol's defense is always aggressive with grabbing and clutching, and then they adjust based on how much the officials are calling that game. After those early calls, they will probably not be as aggressive, which hurts them. SF should roll from this point.
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Niners 3rd down play on D is nothing short of devastating.
Edit: Shit.
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Garoppolo makes so many good throws, but his knack for turning the ball over seems like it is the one thing that will prevent this team from going all the way this year.
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Prophetic post man....knew the Hawks weren't going down easily.
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Has no one taught Garoppolo how to protect the football?
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Has no one taught Garoppolo how to protect the football?
Right? Much cursing is happening in my brothers and my group text right now...
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Between Jimmy's ball protection abilities and the constant drops of passes by the receivers, it's a miracle the Niners are still in this thing.
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Between Jimmy's ball protection abilities and the constant drops of passes by the receivers, it's a miracle the Niners are still in this thing.
Their defense has made some huge plays and is the reason they are still in it.
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This game is intense... :eek
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Fffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.............. way to come through there kid. So, overtime...
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Can’t believe that Seattle STILL won’t put the ball in the MVP’s hands with the game on the line. Really inexcusable by Carroll not to tell the OC to stop calling shitty run plays on 2nd and 3rd down in that situation.
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Yep, that 3rd and short call was gutless. Let Wilson get the 1st down, run the clock down if he gets it, and win the game at the buzzer. And then their defense drops TWO game-ending INT's on SF's subsequent drive. Oof.
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Oh my...
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Wow wasn’t expecting that. Was about to post that Wilson was demonstrating once again why he should never have the ball taken out of his hands. That drive was magnificent until that last throw.
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Oh my...
Indeed
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Well can he kick another one? :corn
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Wow wasn’t expecting that. Was about to post that Wilson was demonstrating once again why he should never have the ball taken out of his hands. That drive was magnificent until that last throw.
I am not even sure it was a bad throw; the defender just made an incredible play on the ball.
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:facepalm:
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Fuck.
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Blair Walsh cannot believe how badly that kick was shanked.
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If I was a Seattle fan right now I’d be absolutely livid. WHY are they still calling RUNNING plays??
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If I was a Seattle fan right now I’d be absolutely livid. WHY are they still calling RUNNING plays??
I liked those calls. SF now has to go a long way in a short time, and if you are Seattle, a tie is not a bad thing. If you think you can win at home against them later, 1-0-1 against SF gives you the tiebreaker.
Plus, the runs got it to 3rd and short, so they had a shot.
And now they are getting it back.
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:facepalm: :facepalm:
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Fuck.
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If I was a Seattle fan right now I’d be absolutely livid. WHY are they still calling RUNNING plays??
We still haven't recovered from the last time we should have called a run play and went with a pass play instead. :D
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Pop the champagne ‘72 Dolphins!
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:angel: :angel: :angel:
:hat :hat :hat
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Sets the stage real nicely for that season finale up in Seattle, especially if both teams continue to win. Haven't been that into a game in ages, and what a game it was.
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What a game and what a win. Me, my bro and dad were all on the edge of our chairs.
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What a game and what a win. Me, my bro and dad were all on the edge of our chairs.
Same, except we were all texting each other. My one bro got out of a late meeting to 80 missed texts hahaha
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What a game and what a win. Me, my bro and dad were all on the edge of our chairs.
Same, except we were all texting each other. My one bro got out of a late meeting to 80 missed texts hahaha
My bro texted me after the Seahawks made the field goal. Was a pretty funny text.
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Wow wasn’t expecting that. Was about to post that Wilson was demonstrating once again why he should never have the ball taken out of his hands. That drive was magnificent until that last throw.
I am not even sure it was a bad throw; the defender just made an incredible play on the ball.
It looked to me about 1-2 yards short. Definitely wasn't near the receiver.
Crazy game. So glad we stuck it out in the end and didn't blow it.
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That was the best game I have seen this season, and I'll be surprised if anything tops it.
Russell Wilson continues to widen the gap on his lead for the MVP award (unless one really thinks Lamar Jackson lighting up the freaking Bengals improved his chances).
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Clearly the two best NFC teams.
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That was the best game I have seen this season, and I'll be surprised if anything tops it.
Russell Wilson continues to widen the gap on his lead for the MVP award (unless one really thinks Lamar Jackson lighting up the freaking Bengals improved his chances).
I'm in Baltimore this week, and, well, there are people that think that.
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Clearly the two best NFC teams.
Saints and Packers are in that conversation as well. I actually think the Seahawks are the 4th best team of the four, but Wilson is so damn good that he leads them to wins over better teams (see: last night).
I'm in Baltimore this week, and, well, there are people that think that.
Well, those people aren't exactly impartial. :lol
Jackson just beat the 0-9 Bengals at home.
Wilson just beat the previously-unbeaten 49ers on the road.
Thinking Jackson closed the gap after those two outcomes is pure silliness.
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That was the best game I have seen this season, and I'll be surprised if anything tops it.
Indeed. And it was one I had a personal interest in, which makes it all the better.
I'm in Baltimore this week, and, well, there are people that think that.
My deepest sympathies on your loss.
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Clearly the two best NFC teams.
Saints and Packers are in that conversation as well. I actually think the Seahawks are the 4th best team of the four, but Wilson is so damn good that he leads them to wins over better teams (see: last night).
That's pretty much what I meant. As of "last night", those are the top 2 teams in the NFC.
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That was the best game I have seen this season, and I'll be surprised if anything tops it.
Russell Wilson continues to widen the gap on his lead for the MVP award (unless one really thinks Lamar Jackson lighting up the freaking Bengals improved his chances).
I'm in Baltimore this week, and, well, there are people that think that.
There's plenty who believe that and I think it's fair. Guys electric and having a crazy season, but... I'll wait till the season plays out more. Wilson has an edge right now, but there's room for things to change.
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i'm parked in my typical old man chair (along with Bill Parcells): win something or at least string a couple seasons together and I'll annoint you, but half a season doesn't qualify you for the Hall of Fame.
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i'm parked in my typical old man chair (along with Bill Parcells): win something or at least string a couple seasons together and I'll annoint you, but half a season doesn't qualify you for the Hall of Fame.
We are just talking MVP here right? He only needs to have an amazing season on one of the best teams which is currently the case, doesn't actually need to win the super bowl for this award. But the season needs to fully be played out before saying he should win it. Right now, he's just a contender and a top one.
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i'm parked in my typical old man chair (along with Bill Parcells): win something or at least string a couple seasons together and I'll annoint you, but half a season doesn't qualify you for the Hall of Fame.
We are just talking MVP here right? He only needs to have an amazing season on one of the best teams which is currently the case, doesn't actually need to win the super bowl for this award. But the season needs to fully be played out before saying he should win it. Right now, he's just a contender and a top one.
No I hear you; you're right. But to listen to some of the press it's like Michael Vick never existed. They did it again last night on ESPN where the ticker had a stat that "he's reached 18mph as a ball carrier 25 times this season!". In this article, that mentions the same stat, the author uses "amazing", "thrilling", "jaw-dropping" and all in the first two sentences. It's just a lot of hype. I'm not a huge fan of hype.
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I agree that the hype is out of control of Jackson in the sense that some are talking like we have never seen a QB do this before, as if we all forgot about Vick, Cam, Kaepernick and RG3, other QB's who were just as likely to beat you with their legs as their arm. I am still waiting to see how he does as a passer the minute a good team doesn't let him and their RB's run wild (a truly great QB can beat you with his arm when nothing else is working on offense). Well, we did see that in the playoffs last year when he was dreadful for most of the game against the Chargers when he had to throw it, but he looks to have improved this year, so I am playing the wait and see game.
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I'm with both of you in that regard, I'm not ready to anoint him anything and I'm not going to hype him up anymore than what he deservers, but I also don't want to dismiss his season just because we've seen similar before. If he continues this pace and the team keeps winning, there's no reason to say he isn't a top contender for MVP for this season.
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Clearly the two best NFC teams.
Saints and Packers are in that conversation as well. I actually think the Seahawks are the 4th best team of the four, but Wilson is so damn good that he leads them to wins over better teams (see: last night).
I'm in Baltimore this week, and, well, there are people that think that.
Well, those people aren't exactly impartial. :lol
Jackson just beat the 0-9 Bengals at home.
Wilson just beat the previously-unbeaten 49ers on the road.
Thinking Jackson closed the gap after those two outcomes is pure silliness.
And Jackson beat Wilson in Seattle a few weeks ago in a game that Russell threw a pick 6 to Marcus Peters that gave Baltimore the lead.....
Peters, who had a pick 6 his last game with the Rams before heading to Baltimore. And as good as Lamar was against NE, it was the Humphreys' TD fumble return that totally changed that game in the third quarter. The Ravens have scored five defensive TDs in their past three games.
Seems the Seahawks D did a thing or two last night as well, along with the 49ers having a back up kicker that rose up once under pressure, then really caved. Oh, and why they didn't settle for a tie at the end is puzzling.
I could give a crap about the debates on who wins the MVP. Cunningham, Kaepernick, and the dog killer were all special players. This kid has the extra jets and moves that make him different, just like Barry Sanders did at RB. Flacco was such an improvement over the QBs that were in this town for years, and we were excited and damn happy to have him until the last couple of years. It's such a treat to get excited about the offense of this franchise for a change. And it is exciting and different, much like when...Randall Cunningham was the QB here.
Houston this Sunday, at the Rams for MNF, home for the 49ers (flexed?), then on the road at Buffalo. If their D holds up, I can see them winning all four. I can also see them losing three of four. Creating TOs and taking advantage of them changes everything (obviously). And they'd still be in the hunt at 8-5. Truth be told, only those drinking the Purple Kool Aid thought the team would be 7-2 at this point.
The QB is fun to watch. Their schemes are so unique. The defense makes things happen. Oh, and they have the best kicker, which for the previous few years was THE most exciting player to watch. That's how bad things were.
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i'm parked in my typical old man chair (along with Bill Parcells): win something or at least string a couple seasons together and I'll annoint you, but half a season doesn't qualify you for the Hall of Fame.
Trey Wingo always refers to Patrick Mahomes as "Hall of Famer Patrick Mahomes", with tongue planted firmly in cheek. It's hilarious.
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I agree that the hype is out of control of Jackson in the sense that some are talking like we have never seen a QB do this before, as if we all forgot about Vick, Cam, Kaepernick and RG3, other QB's who were just as likely to beat you with their legs as their arm. I am still waiting to see how he does as a passer the minute a good team doesn't let him and their RB's run wild (a truly great QB can beat you with his arm when nothing else is working on offense). Well, we did see that in the playoffs last year when he was dreadful for most of the game against the Chargers when he had to throw it, but he looks to have improved this year, so I am playing the wait and see game.
Kev, what's your take on the Sunday night game? Dak threw for over 400 yds cause Minny shut down Zeke. Dallas was primed to go down for the game winning score on that last drive and what did they do? They run Zeke twice for short yardage, don't get it and then throw to Zeke and don't get it. :facepalm: Is that Dak just not taking the game into his own hands cause the OC wanted to burn clock? What does the situation call for? In my opinion, getting the 1st down at all costs is the priority even if you have to pass. They asked Dak in the PC about the play calling. His answer was clock management. :\ To me, that's just a lot of horseshit.
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I agree that the hype is out of control of Jackson in the sense that some are talking like we have never seen a QB do this before, as if we all forgot about Vick, Cam, Kaepernick and RG3, other QB's who were just as likely to beat you with their legs as their arm. I am still waiting to see how he does as a passer the minute a good team doesn't let him and their RB's run wild (a truly great QB can beat you with his arm when nothing else is working on offense). Well, we did see that in the playoffs last year when he was dreadful for most of the game against the Chargers when he had to throw it, but he looks to have improved this year, so I am playing the wait and see game.
Kev, what's your take on the Sunday night game? Dak threw for over 400 yds cause Minny shut down Zeke. Dallas was primed to go down for the game winning score on that last drive and what did they do? They run Zeke twice for short yardage, don't get it and then throw to Zeke and don't get it. :facepalm: Is that Dak just not taking the game into his own hands cause the OC wanted to burn clock? What does the situation call for? In my opinion, getting the 1st down at all costs is the priority even if you have to pass. They asked Dak in the PC about the play calling. His answer was clock management. :\ To me, that's just a lot of horseshit.
Dak gave the PC answer, but I am sure he was ticked that they took the ball out of his hands and gave it to their RB who was having a terrible game,.
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Look, if you’re Brady/Belichick and have done it 1,000 times you’ve earned the right to play cute. Dark and Zeke and Co. need to focus on basic blocking and tackling first. A game-winning score and time for Kirk to launch a couple Hail Mary’s is better than the handful of shit they ended up with. 5-4 teams on the cusp of the playoffs need to do two things: put points on the board and keep the other team from doing the same when they have the ball.
My penny and a half.
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Garoppolo is taking a lot of heat for the loss last night. And, partly, that is to be expected because (1) he is the QB, and as such, he will take the heat for offensive struggles, whether deserved or not, and (2) he did look shaky at times and threw some bad passes. I can't really argue with the criticism too much. But what I don't see being acknowledged by the critics is that BOTH his #1 and #2 options (Kittle and Sanders) were out of the game, and the rest of the receiving corps has, unfortunately, been VERY inconsistent (as evidenced by 7 dropped passes last night, for example). So, yeah, he looked shaky and tentative at times. But he also didn't have anyone to target that he felt a high degree of confidence in either. Thoughts?
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Anytime you cough up three fumbles and a pick in a loss of a high profile game, you're gonna take some heat. I agree that he was handicapped without his weapons, and the dropped passes were beyond frustrating.
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2 fumbles (I must have missed one of them--I only saw the strip sack). But yeah, I get it.
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2 fumbles (I must have missed one of them--I only saw the strip sack). But yeah, I get it.
Guess the first one just felt like two to me. :'(
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2 fumbles (I must have missed one of them--I only saw the strip sack). But yeah, I get it.
Guess the first one just felt like two to me. :'(
Yeah, those fumbles I think were game changers. Take those away and the Niners have the game in the bag.
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What's funny though is that if you look at the stats, Wilson and Garoppolo had almost identical games, with Wilson having one less fumble. And Garoppolo had probably two touchdowns wiped off the board by drops (one a sure touchdown, and the other where the receiver either gets into the endzone or sets up a first and goal around the 5 or closer). Yet, if you listen to the media, Garoppolo is the goat and Wilson is the GOAT. Someone on the radio last night also mentioned how their stat lines were so even, and how BOTH drove their teams down to about the same field goal range in OT. The difference maker is that Seattle's kicker made it, and the '9ers' kicker missed.
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The degree of difficulty matters, though. Wilson was going against the 49ers defense, which is stellar and ranked 2nd in the league now, while Jimmy G was going against the Seahawks defense, which is a shell of its former self and currently ranked in the bottom third of the NFL. Both quarterbacks were missing key options in the game (both missing their top TE and both lost their best WR in the game), so that is kind of a wash. Also, Jimmy G drove his team like 20+ yards in OT thanks to the return to midfield that set them up with great field position. Neither guy had a great QBR in the game, but Wilson's was more than twice what Jimmy G's was (41.1 to 18.9). Plus, Wilson has the rep of having been one of the best quarterback of this decade; he is a proven commodity. On the flip side, we still don't know how good Garoppolo is.
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They weren't equal, not in the game I saw. I'm not a "what-if" guy, so the "dropped TDs" don't matter to me, but if you are going to count those, you can't then ignore that in that one late drive, Garoppolo had TWO potential interceptions dropped (and if memory serves there was almost a third one, because I remember Wright had TWO chances late in the game to pick one off). I'm a Jimmy G fan (still think the odds are better than zero that he plays for New England again) but he was outplayed by Russell Wilson.
The announcers - Tessitore and McFarland, who did not deliver their best games - made a huge point of the fact that the "entire NFL" was watching this moment, to see if Jimmy G could carry the offense without a running game and without one of his biggest weapons (they also compared Kittle to Gronk). I get the concept "do your job", but you want to be the GOAT, not the goat, you account for the fact you have a kicker that is, according to Tessitore "just in off the street". That kicker never attempted an overtime kick EVER, in college or the pros, and you have to factor that in at that level. (This is not at all contradictory to my comment about the Cowboys and Dak; the Cowboys are not in consideration for "best team in the league", are not even close to unbeaten, and aren't even a lock for the playoffs let alone a Super Bowl contender).
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The degree of difficulty matters, though. Wilson was going against the 49ers defense, which is stellar and ranked 2nd in the league now, while Jimmy G was going against the Seahawks defense, which is a shell of its former self and currently ranked in the bottom third of the NFL. Both quarterbacks were missing key options in the game (both missing their top TE and both lost their best WR in the game), so that is kind of a wash. Also, Jimmy G drove his team like 20+ yards in OT thanks to the return to midfield that set them up with great field position. Neither guy had a great QBR in the game, but Wilson's was more than twice what Jimmy G's was (41.1 to 18.9). Plus, Wilson has the rep of having been one of the best quarterback of this decade; he is a proven commodity. On the flip side, we still don't know how good Garoppolo is.
Well, that's fair. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but I get what you are saying.
They weren't equal, not in the game I saw. I'm not a "what-if" guy, so the "dropped TDs" don't matter to me, but if you are going to count those, you can't then ignore that in that one late drive, Garoppolo had TWO potential interceptions dropped (and if memory serves there was almost a third one, because I remember Wright had TWO chances late in the game to pick one off). I'm a Jimmy G fan (still think the odds are better than zero that he plays for New England again) but he was outplayed by Russell Wilson.
I'm not trying to defend anything here, necessarily. But from what I saw, the two QB's played pretty evenly. As Kev pointed out, neither had a great game. I'm not defending Jimmy G's game. I'm just observing that, if a couple of things go differently, the narrative is entirely different, and I find that fascinating. And, yes, I think those drops (it was actually 9, not 7) matter in that discussion. Again, this is all entirely hypothetical. But if those two touchdown drops are NOT dropped by the receivers (and they weren't bad throws, or broken up--they were DROPS), you add 14 points to SF's score AND you erase the interception that happened right after one of those two drops, which erases one of Seattle's touchdowns. In that scenario, we don't even get to overtime, and those two "almost" interceptions never happen either.
Look, at the end of the day, the '9ers had several chances to win, and in each pivotal scenario, one or several players failed to execute. That's on them. And it happens. Again, I'm just observing that if a couple of things happen the way they should, we are looking at an entirely different outcome, and I think it's kinda fascinating how the narrative surrounding the game is entirely different as a result, that's all.
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I don't disagree with you, and actually I'd be pretty happy to be a Niners fan right now. With the one exception of the field goal, they very much played well when they had to and made big plays when they had to. I really don't have a team in that hunt, but I can guarantee you I will be watching the rematch in a couple weeks.
I can't remember a regular season game getting that kind of scrutiny and analysis in a long time.
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Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Those questions will always be there, but it seems like too many factors and variables to even be bother contemplating. It was a true MNF thriller. Those are the kinds of games that fans, analysts and other players want to watch. Even if you're not a fan of either team, it was still awesome. The NFL needs more games like that.
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Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Those questions will always be there, but it seems like too many factors and variables to even be bother contemplating. It was a true MNF thriller. Those are the kinds of games that fans, analysts and other players want to watch. Even if you're not a fan of either team, it was still awesome. The NFL needs more games like that.
Even as someone from the losing side, I completely agree. It could very well be the game of the year.
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Yeah, I know, they suck.
But my Dolphins have won 2 in a row. Ok not against top teams, but....
They are getting incrementally better every week, even as they continue to shed top talent.
I was pessimistic, and said the Dolphins will never be real contenders until they truly commit to rebuilding. In that I mean to being ok with sucking for a while to build a great team with the draft, instead of band-aids with free agents....dooming us to mediocrity.
Well it looks like that is happening.
I also said the above means nothing without a true culture change. We need a management that allows the coaching staff to be free to truly make cultural and systemic changes to the organization. It appears that is what is happening. Flores looks like the real deal, and his system and culture are starting to effect change. VERY low penalties is one aspect to show this. Incremental growth with the team getting better each week, with an admittedly weak talent team.
Now as a fan, I can be overly optomistic....but are we seeing the POSSIBILITY of the turnaround of a franchise? Football was never my sport, so I am not as knowledgeable as many here. Interested to hear your thoughts.
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Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Those questions will always be there, but it seems like too many factors and variables to even be bother contemplating. It was a true MNF thriller. Those are the kinds of games that fans, analysts and other players want to watch. Even if you're not a fan of either team, it was still awesome. The NFL needs more games like that.
Even as someone from the losing side, I completely agree. It could very well be the game of the year.
It could be. I know it is so far. Reminds me of the Rams/Chiefs game last year. What a barn burner that was. Funny how those teams are a mere shadow of their former selves this year...so far anyway. Still a lot of football to be played.
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True that man, true that.
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Yeah, I know, they suck.
But my Dolphins have won 2 in a row. ...
Interested to hear your thoughts.
While the front office seemed to be in tank mode to get the top pick, it's clear that the coaching staff and players are working their asses off and trying to win. IMO, it's hard to turn around a franchise completely without getting a franchise QB, but the Dolphins seem to have found a good coach.
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Heard Florio talking about tanking the other day. What's the point of an 0-8 team trying to win? Why not tank? Understating it is much easier to do so in other sports where 6'6 350 pound dudes aren't trying to take your heads of, or course. If you are a die-hard fan of a 2-13 team, are you dying to see them win that last game? I'm not that hardcore of a fan of any team so I am actually curious.
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Heard Florio talking about tanking the other day. What's the point of an 0-8 team trying to win? Why not tank? Understating it is much easier to do so in other sports where 6'6 350 pound dudes aren't trying to take your heads of, or course. If you are a die-hard fan of a 2-13 team, are you dying to see them win that last game? I'm not that hardcore of a fan of any team so I am actually curious.
Great question.
Yes I want them to win every game. The benefit lost by not actually 'tanking" (draft pick/s) is not as great as the benefit gained - which is the culture change of the core group of players and coaches that will be the foundation of the team going forward. I guess I would much rather see the scenario of them creating the appropriate culture on the team and front office with a TON of draft picks and a TON of cap space coming in the next two years....even if it prevents us from getting the #1 pick. The culture change is real and systemic. Look at the Patriots and why they REALLY win. SYSTEM, CULTURE, WORK ETHIC & TRUST THE PROCESS, and of course COACHING with Back Office SUPPORT. That stuff disappears with tanking. The Pats created that culture and helped create Brady...a 6th round pick.
Now dont get me wrong...I am not saying my Fins are the next Pats......but it looks like our coach is literally trying to re-create that culture he experienced in NE here in South Florida. There is a huge mural on the wall at the Fins facility - TNT - Takes No Talent....they are focusing on things that take no talent....Work ethic, effort...discipline...NO PENALTIES (and that is manifesting already - LOWEST penalized team this season!!!).
What I see is an actual, legitimate, and verifiable START on the RIGHT road to success. Not the easy way, but the hard, slow, methodical way to turn around a franchise. Could it all implode? Sure. But I do like what I see so far. This type of action gives me more optimism than any free agent ever did...because I know the culture and system were shit. Maybe thats changing.....maybe :)
So my answer is HELL NO I don't want to see them tank. I want to see them fight and scrap and work hard to do things the right way and WIN. That way we have the foundation when we eventually do bring on the draft picks and free agents. I don't think ANY players want to tank, as their performance every game is their resume, and their lively hood. I just dont see them as tanking anymore.
Again, not an NFL or football expert by any means, so please keep the discussion going. I am interested in learning.
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Good answer Eric. Coaching a team to never give up trying to win is the right thing to do for players and maybe even more so for the coaches themselves. Getting a #1 draft pick is nowhere near as valuable.
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Garoppolo is taking a lot of heat for the loss last night. And, partly, that is to be expected because (1) he is the QB, and as such, he will take the heat for offensive struggles, whether deserved or not, and (2) he did look shaky at times and threw some bad passes. I can't really argue with the criticism too much. But what I don't see being acknowledged by the critics is that BOTH his #1 and #2 options (Kittle and Sanders) were out of the game, and the rest of the receiving corps has, unfortunately, been VERY inconsistent (as evidenced by 7 dropped passes last night, for example). So, yeah, he looked shaky and tentative at times. But he also didn't have anyone to target that he felt a high degree of confidence in either. Thoughts?
The Seahawks defense could have got into his head a bit. I wonder if Garoppolo had nightmares about Clowney the following night. But yeah, Garoppolo is a great qb and wasn't playing bad, just a few dropped passes. I think he will do just fine the rest of the season, even Tom Brady and Russel Wilson have bad games at times. It's the nature of the beast, so it seems a bit unfair that JG is under scrutiny.. It's a team sport and you have to be firing on all cylinders to win games like that.
It was a fantastic game and it did come down to the kicker.. Go Hawks!!! 🏈😎
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Wow Browns doing some serious head-hunting tonight. 2 guys knocked out with concussions. One guy ejected.
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:rollin
What a way to end a game.
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Myles Garrett ought to be in prison for doing that.
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Myles Garret is gonna be going away for a while. Ripping a player's helmet off and beating him with it is manly as all fuck, but definitely worthy of a multigame suspension.
And WTF with starting it in the first place? Pitt's losing ugly and Rudolph has sucked all night, so you're going to rough the guy up for good measure? And then blindside him after he's already gotten walloped? I must have missed something because that really didn't make any sense.
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Myles Garrett ought to be in prison for doing that.
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It took 23 years, but someone finally pulled a Happy Gilmore.
Browns continue to be a complete pile of shit. Damien Woody said criminal charges should be filed, and I agree. There is precedent in the NHL, but it was only been the home team PD charging an opposing player.
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I thought that I was over-reacting, but now that I've seen some of your comments I'm feeling better about my reaction. MG's actions went well beyond the game of football, and should be looked at in terms that go beyond football.
To go along with this topic, hearing the "cheers" of the brown's fans during the brawl brings something home to me. I've been a life long Steeler's fan that lives in North central Ohio. I usually don't like to pick on a fan base, and I know that it doesn't apply to every fan of the team, but I've heard some of the most ignorant shit imaginable come out of some of these people when it comes to hating on other team's fans. I don't know if other people that live outside of their team's home base experience the same thing, but it makes it difficult to even mention that I'm a fan of another team when sport's topics come up in regular conversation.
After seeing this and their reaction during the infamous Jacksonville game many years ago, it makes it that much more difficult to have any respect for them.
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Eh, past incidents aside, I cannot hold Browns fans cheering for their team in the brawl against them. The odds that most of the fans in the stands saw what happened in real time are slim to none. Many of us watching it on TV, with a better view, didn't see the helmet smash until the televised replay. Heck, neither Joe Buck nor Troy Aikman realized how awful it was till seeing the replay. Most fans in the stands were probably drunk on booze and/or celebrating the win and had no idea what started the brawl. All they saw was fighting and you are naturally going to have the back of your team.
All that said, I would suspend Garrett indefinitely (for the rest of the season and then re-visit it next summer), I would give Pouncey a game or two for the kick, and I'd be okay with fines to both Rudolph (who tried to rip off Garrett's helmet first and then escalated the situation several times before getting clubbed with his own helmet) and the Brown who clobbered Rudolph from behind when he has his arms outstretched asking for a flag after Garrett hit him with his helmet. In fact, give that Browns player a game for that cheap shot.
Also, while Pouncey deserves a game or two for the kick, mad props to him and the other Steeler. They did what teammates are supposed to do, which is to protect your QB, and they went after Garrett, right after the helmet smash, like he had just robbed their grandma.
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WTF was up with Rudolph trying to remove Garrett's helmet at first?
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Garrett should be suspended indefinitely, the last time I saw something that awful was when Chris Simon tomahawk chopped Ryan Hollweg in the head with his stick in the NHL.
I don't blame Rudolph for anything he did honestly, you can't fault the guy for defending himself... I'm glad the kid is ok.
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I agree with most of what's been posted here. I think he should be arrested for assault. Honestly, the response from the NFL will determine my interest in the NFL going forward. The Brown's were bush league through out that whole game and I'm just about done watching these over paid ego maniacs prance around on a field. If he's not got gone for the rest of the season, at least, I'm done with the NFL and everything associated with. Maybe there will be a new NCAA game now that players will probably be paid for their likeness.
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When James Harrison says you should go to jail for your on the field conduct that really tells you something. Now we just need OJ to chime in about unnecessary roughness.
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When James Harrison says you should go to jail for your on the field conduct that really tells you something. Now we just need OJ to chime in about unnecessary roughness.
I was pretty much thinking the same thing. :lol :lol :lol
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Yep. Mason Rudolph started it. It's only 0930 and this just made my day. :lol
https://twitter.com/TheRealOJ32/status/1195239233398509568?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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When James Harrison says you should go to jail for your on the field conduct that really tells you something. Now we just need OJ to chime in about unnecessary roughness.
Follow his Twitter, he just might. :lol
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OJ tweeted back before the season began that he had Antonio Brown on his fantasy team and that the nonsense going on with the Raiders at the time could hurt his team. Poor OJ just can't catch a break. :rollin :rollin
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I saw that. :lol
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There is precedent for a civil lawsuit (although it's precedent from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, and Ohio is in the Sixth Circuit).
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1250356103549125614&q=dale+hackbart&hl=en&as_sdt=4,106,120
The facts here are more egregious, but it doesn't appear that Rudolph suffered any appreciable injury.
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Penalties have been released.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28087446/browns-myles-garrett-suspended-indefinitely-role-fight-vs-steelers
Rudolph banned for the rest of the season is surprising.
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I think that is a typo in the article. Garrett is the one suspended for the rest of the season, not Rudolph.
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Indefinite suspension and reapply next season is exactly what I was thinking last night. The Pouncy suspension is a little steep, though. What was he supposed to do? That was not a situation where you can take the Jesus approach. I can see giving him a day off so as not to officially endorse his behavior, but I'd also try to understand his limited options there.
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You can't kick a guy in the head while a teammate is on top of him. He can't plead temp insanity.
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As I said earlier, I would have given Pouncey 1-2 games. 3 does seem excessive, but given how ugly this whole incident was, they almost had to come down kind of hard on a guy who tried to kick another guy in the head.
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You can't kick a guy in the head while a teammate is on top of him. He can't plead temp insanity.
And you can't turn and walk away when somebody bashes your quarterback in the noggin with his helmet, either.
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The Pouncy suspension is a little steep, though. What was he supposed to do? That was not a situation where you can take the Jesus approach.
??? Him helping wrestle Garrett to the ground was fine. Nothing wrong with doing everything necessary to restrain the guy when he is going off on your guy. But I didn't see anything that justified him throwing punches or kicking Garrett in the head while he was down. Not sure how you justify that.
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I love how the media looks down on that kind of behavior, but they just can't stop talking about it. Deep down they are eating this shit up and will continue for the next 2 weeks until the Browns go to Pitt. I see it as just another form of entertainment. It's a win win situation for everyone except the players involved. :lol The fans are talking about it. The media is talking about it. The NFL will cash in with multiple fines of tens of thousands of dollars each. What kills me is, these guys know they're on television and they do it anyway. The whole world is watching.
:corn :corn :corn :corn
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Why are so many fans of the NFL here on DTF surprised at the suspensions handed down? Have you not followed Goodell since 2007? :lol
His face should be the definition of inconsistency.
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Disappointed that Rudolph got nothing out of this. Not condoning Garrett's actions, AT ALL, and I 100% agree with his punishment, but for Rudolph, he should have been given a game or two as well. Tried to rip Garrett's helmet off, spiked Garrett in the crotch, and then gets up and goes back after Garrett while his linemen are trying to keep the peace? I'm sorry, but that's the real bush league shit right there.
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So.... no thoughts on the NFL-scheduled workout?
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I thought the players would be suspended and fined, but both organizations got slammed with $250k each. How does that work exactly? Can the owners then turn around and fine the players accordingly?
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Disappointed that Rudolph got nothing out of this. Not condoning Garrett's actions, AT ALL, and I 100% agree with his punishment, but for Rudolph, he should have been given a game or two as well. Tried to rip Garrett's helmet off, spiked Garrett in the crotch, and then gets up and goes back after Garrett while his linemen are trying to keep the peace? I'm sorry, but that's the real bush league shit right there.
The more I think about it, the more I think Rudolph not getting fined or suspended makes sense. Why should he get suspended? Say for example Garrett does not hit him with his helmet and the situation instead calmed down...would Rudolph have deserved a suspension for what he had done thus far? Hell no. Som suspending him because Garrett went berserk on him wouldn't be fair. I am not going to get on Rudolph too much at this point for the way he acted when Garrett was on top of him. Is a QB supposed to just lay there and take it? No, he was trying to get a much bigger and tougher dude off of him.
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Also, Rudolph going for the helmet was after Garrett held onto him and threw him to the ground after he'd thrown the ball. Rudolph had some involvement in this, but he was in no way the instigator.
Which goes back to the question I asked last night. Is there any clue what caused Garrett to go off like that? Rudolph had sucked and they won the game decisively. Flipping out on the guy with 8 seconds left just made no damned sense. Considering that the Browns were taking cheap shots earlier, I'm wondering if there wasn't some cultural thing that went far beyond Garrett.
The Pouncy suspension is a little steep, though. What was he supposed to do? That was not a situation where you can take the Jesus approach.
??? Him helping wrestle Garrett to the ground was fine. Nothing wrong with doing everything necessary to restrain the guy when he is going off on your guy. But I didn't see anything that justified him throwing punches or kicking Garrett in the head while he was down. Not sure how you justify that.
I think you have to show that they can't whale on your quarterback and not get some back in return. That's important. Again, I'd be alright with a one game suspension for fighting. I'd just understand that he did have an obligation there. Also, 3 games for him and 1 for the asshat that blindsided Rudolph while he had his hands in the air doesn't sit real well with me, either.
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Disappointed that Rudolph got nothing out of this. Not condoning Garrett's actions, AT ALL, and I 100% agree with his punishment, but for Rudolph, he should have been given a game or two as well. Tried to rip Garrett's helmet off, spiked Garrett in the crotch, and then gets up and goes back after Garrett while his linemen are trying to keep the peace? I'm sorry, but that's the real bush league shit right there.
The more I think about it, the more I think Rudolph not getting fined or suspended makes sense. Why should he get suspended? Say for example Garrett does not hit him with his helmet and the situation instead calmed down...would Rudolph have deserved a suspension for what he had done thus far? Hell no. Som suspending him because Garrett went berserk on him wouldn't be fair. I am not going to get on Rudolph too much at this point for the way he acted when Garrett was on top of him. Is a QB supposed to just lay there and take it? No, he was trying to get a much bigger and tougher dude off of him.
Concur. Nothing I saw from Rudolph warranted a suspension.
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Also, Rudolph going for the helmet was after Garrett held onto him and threw him to the ground after he'd thrown the ball. Rudolph had some involvement in this, but he was in no way the instigator.
Which goes back to the question I asked last night. Is there any clue what caused Garrett to go off like that? Rudolph had sucked and they won the game decisively. Flipping out on the guy with 8 seconds left just made no damned sense. Considering that the Browns were taking cheap shots earlier, I'm wondering if there wasn't some cultural thing that went far beyond Garrett.
I seriously doubt it was pre-meditated. In fact, he appeared to have calmed down a bit once he got up and was being held back, but once Rudolph came at him aggressively, Garrett instinctively reacted, and because he just happen to have the helmet in his hand at that exact moment, he swung at it at Rudolph and hit him with it. Had he dropped the helmet before that moment, I doubt he would have looked on the ground for it to pick up and then use as a weapon.
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Eh, past incidents aside, I cannot hold Browns fans cheering for their team in the brawl against them. The odds that most of the fans in the stands saw what happened in real time are slim to none. Many of us watching it on TV, with a better view, didn't see the helmet smash until the televised replay. Heck, neither Joe Buck nor Troy Aikman realized how awful it was till seeing the replay. Most fans in the stands were probably drunk on booze and/or celebrating the win and had no idea what started the brawl. All they saw was fighting and you are naturally going to have the back of your team.
All that said, I would suspend Garrett indefinitely (for the rest of the season and then re-visit it next summer), I would give Pouncey a game or two for the kick, and I'd be okay with fines to both Rudolph (who tried to rip off Garrett's helmet first and then escalated the situation several times before getting clubbed with his own helmet) and the Brown who clobbered Rudolph from behind when he has his arms outstretched asking for a flag after Garrett hit him with his helmet. In fact, give that Browns player a game for that cheap shot.
Also, while Pouncey deserves a game or two for the kick, mad props to him and the other Steeler. They did what teammates are supposed to do, which is to protect your QB, and they went after Garrett, right after the helmet smash, like he had just robbed their grandma.
In hindsight I agree with you. It's tough to be dispassionate about something like this.
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Just getting a chance to comment on this. The Browns had just won their Super Bowl, beating a team that had been kicking the shit out of them more or less for 5 decades but even more often since Roethlisberger was drafted. Using all their first round picks plus Beckham and Landry they beat Pittsburgh’s 2nd and 3rd stringers so congrats to them.
I think Cleveland had a lot of pent-up anger that Kitchens probably encouraged and it sure showed with all the head-hunting they did. One guy was bleeding from his ear and Rudolph was hit in the head a couple of times that weren’t flagged. Steeler players were probably a little amped up about that so when Pouncey saw Garrett swinging the helmet it was the last straw and he went berserk. I just wish Garrett’s helmet had been off so the punches could have landed. Nothing wrong with punching out a lineman attacking your QB. I agree the kick warrants a suspension.
The funniest thing is the inevitable idiot Browns fans trying to defend Garrett. I saw one post where a guy assumed Rudolph used a racial slur. Riiigghhhttt, that’s why Pouncey (who’s black) came to Rudolph’s defense ::).
Anyway, pathetic showing for the NFL product and Garrett needs to be an example. Non-Patriot fans always like to defer to “imagine if this had happened to Brady” but in this case it wouldn’t have mattered who the QB was, even Vick.
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I think the opposite about Kitchens. His lack of discipline lead to this.
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Also, Rudolph going for the helmet was after Garrett held onto him and threw him to the ground after he'd thrown the ball. Rudolph had some involvement in this, but he was in no way the instigator.
Which goes back to the question I asked last night. Is there any clue what caused Garrett to go off like that? Rudolph had sucked and they won the game decisively. Flipping out on the guy with 8 seconds left just made no damned sense. Considering that the Browns were taking cheap shots earlier, I'm wondering if there wasn't some cultural thing that went far beyond Garrett.
I seriously doubt it was pre-meditated. In fact, he appeared to have calmed down a bit once he got up and was being held back, but once Rudolph came at him aggressively, Garrett instinctively reacted, and because he just happen to have the helmet in his hand at that exact moment, he swung at it at Rudolph and hit him with it. Had he dropped the helmet before that moment, I doubt he would have looked on the ground for it to pick up and then use as a weapon.
But Garrett went after him during the play. He was flipping out long before he swung the helmet. That's what I don't get. If Cleveland were losing the game I wouldn't be questioning it. In this case there's just no reason for that sort of frustration.
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In hindsight I agree with you. It's tough to be dispassionate about something like this.
Very true. We are all guilty of being a little too passionate about our favorite teams at times. :hat
But Garrett went after him during the play. He was flipping out long before he swung the helmet. That's what I don't get. If Cleveland were losing the game I wouldn't be questioning it. In this case there's just no reason for that sort of frustration.
Good point. Garrett had gone a little over the little a few times already this season, and it sure looks like the Browns as a team last night were jacked up and wanting to inflict some punishment and all it took was a little extra something on the QB to light the spark. And let's face it, pass rushers lick their chops at getting to the QB at the end of games when their teams are winning and the opponent is throwing it on every down.
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Ok, so Rudolph completed a pass during the play and Garrett slammed him to the ground afterward. That should've been a personal foul for roughing the passer before it all started. I don't remember seeing a flag until Mason's helmet got ripped off. Then it just all went to hell.
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So.... no thoughts on the NFL-scheduled workout?
Lol. Total shit show. Not sure what was the NFL’s motive to schedule this. The NFL brought this to themselves on the aftermath of this scheduled workout. Why do it in the first place?
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So.... no thoughts on the NFL-scheduled workout?
Lol. Total shit show. Not sure what was the NFL’s motive to schedule this. The NFL brought this to themselves on the aftermath of this scheduled workout. Why do it in the first place?
At first, I was thinking it's quintessential NFL, trying to close the barn door after the horse is a mile and a half down the road, and in one sense, the most racist thing about the whole Kaepernick fiasco. Before the workout, and based on some of his comments in the wake of the kneel down, I was surprised he even participated in this. But then seeing how it went down, and the statements from both camps before, during and after, there's not a whiff of surprise any longer. "Hey look at me!" The NFL threw him a bone and he basically confirmed everything the critics were saying for three years. His NFL career is over.
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So.... no thoughts on the NFL-scheduled workout?
Lol. Total shit show. Not sure what was the NFL’s motive to schedule this. The NFL brought this to themselves on the aftermath of this scheduled workout. Why do it in the first place?
At first, I was thinking it's quintessential NFL, trying to close the barn door after the horse is a mile and a half down the road, and in one sense, the most racist thing about the whole Kaepernick fiasco. Before the workout, and based on some of his comments in the wake of the kneel down, I was surprised he even participated in this. But then seeing how it went down, and the statements from both camps before, during and after, there's not a whiff of surprise any longer. "Hey look at me!" The NFL threw him a bone and he basically confirmed everything the critics were saying for three years. His NFL career is over.
Right...don’t disagree but why did the NFL do this in the first place? Very few people were clamoring for Kap, he was almost non-existent in the NFL circles, why revive the controversy? I read somewhere that it was a favor to Jay-Z since he and his media company signed a multi million dollar agreement.
Also, the issue about the waiver. Do free agents have to sign this even when working out with a team (honest question)? I don’t know...someone mentioned that at the combine, it has to be signed. But I don’t think they get classified as free agents.
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From what I read, it's the standard waiver that 100's of potential players sign each year. The problem point as I understand it is the admission that there is no guarantee of employment from the tryout and that if the player is injured they cannot claim it's a work-related injury and therefore claim worker's comp. Not an unreasonable request (by the NFL) and for me, it's one of those things that you don't argue unless you see it as a potential problem in the future.
Also, it's worth noting that he wore a "Kunta Kinte" shirt during the workout. Free speech, his right, etc. etc. no question at all, but if you're extending the olive branch, and sending the message that you're ready, willing and able to be a team player and particulate in the team sport that is football, wearing a shirt with the name of a slave who frequently refused to speak or communicate as a form of rejection of his circumstances, who escaped no less than four times, and had his foot cut off after the last recapture is hardly the optimum approach.
If you demand so stridently and uncompromisingly to be accepted on YOUR terms, it's not unreasonable that you might find yourself fin a position that your terms are NOT accepted. That's something YOU have to live with, not everyone else.
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Brady's looking pretty bad today. Pressure and wind are certainly a part of it, but he's made some ugly throws, too.
With Phili playing solid man D, and Brady throwing erratically, I'd like to see N'keal Harry more involved. I think he'd be more effective than Sanu. The main thing is that they need Wynn back so they might be able to establish a running game.
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Neither QB looks good. Philly has the better running game, but no WR's who can get open and catch the ball. This is one of those games where the Eagles came out with a lot of emotion and took the early lead, but as the games goes on and on, the Patriots are simply wearing them down with their superior coaching and better talent.
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After becoming the first QB to have two perfect ratings game in a season since Ben in '07, Lamar Jackson 'slumped' to a 139 rating today, in the Ravens surprising 40-7 pasting of Houston. The defense sacked Watson six times, and thoroughly dominated the Texans. Didn't see this one coming.
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Ravens are the team to beat.
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They sure look like it Tim.
Man the Pats O-line is the whole issue with this offense. This line will be it's Achilles heel.
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It will, but come crunch time on a final drive, can the defense, the secondary, deliver? Wentz completed some big suspect throws against them late in the 4th.
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I'm not worried about the D. They were on the field a lot the first half. That's why the O needs to step up. Not too many teams one sided win it all.
There's a few but it's more an aberration.
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You spelling aberration correctly is an aberration.
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Time to play Megabucks.
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49ers continue to simultaneously impress and foster doubt about how good they actually are. This week: Getting the run game bottled up, commiting unnecessary mistakes, and almost losing to a 3-win team is concerning. On the flip-side, as to all of those things: "it happens," and finding ways to overcome that, never at any point feel like the game is out of reach, and finding a way to get it done before the clock reaches 0:00 is the mark of a good team.
I could see them realistically finishing anywhere between 11-5 and a wildcard to 14-2 with the #1 seed. And while I think somewhere in between those two scenarios is the most likely, I'm ultimately just happy for how far this team has come. And while a LOT of people would consider 11-5 an extreme disappointment, that is still far above where the team was projected to finish before the season began, and would be such a marked improvement over last year. To even be having a legitimate conversation about them being able to go all the way this year is a HUGE stride forward.
If I had to make a prediction right now, I'm going to say 12-4 finish. I think they likely beat the Packers, lose to the Saints and Ravens, and drop another "shoulda won" game somewhere down the stretch. But honestly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the exact opposite happens, and they lose to the Packers, beat the Saints and Ravens, and then drop another one somewhere to finish 13-3. Honestly, I think the margin between the top teams right now is VERY small.
EDIT: For those who don't know their remaining schedule and can't be bothered to look it up:
11/24: vs. Packers
12/1: @ Ravens
12/8: @ Saints
12/15: vs. Falcons
12/21: vs. Rams
12/29: @ Seahawks
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After becoming the first QB to have two perfect ratings game in a season since Ben in '07, Lamar Jackson 'slumped' to a 139 rating today, in the Ravens surprising 40-7 pasting of Houston. The defense sacked Watson six times, and thoroughly dominated the Texans. Didn't see this one coming.
That was a statement win if you ask me. Houston is solid, not great, but what a beating and Lamar is cementing himself further as MVP. He's just better than anyone else on the field.
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I haven't seen him play, so I can't comment. But along similar lines, I'm REALLY impressed with Kyler Murray. I can't even say "he's going to be really good," because he's ALREADY really good. It's a shame they're in the NFC west, because I like him and kinda hope the Cards can built a good team around him.
And related to him, I'm going to go off on a tangent for just a moment: When/why did the practice of players exchanging jerseys onfield (on court, in the case of basketball) start? I wasn't even aware of it even being a thing just a short time ago. Now, it seems like it happens every game. And the vast majority of the time, I think it ranges from being "pointless" to "inappropriate and borderline offensive." (Richard Sherman and Russell Wilson doing it after the Monday night game last week is an example of the latter) HOWEVER, I thought Kyler Murray and Nick Bosa doing it last night was pretty fitting and cool to see.
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They sure look like it Tim.
Man the Pats O-line is the whole issue with this offense. This line will be it's Achilles heel.
Getting Wynn back will be a big help. They're still missing David Andrews, but I don't think Karras has really been a problem. My hunch is that they're having to work too hard at covering up for Newhouse, and once that liability is gone they'll e able to focus more on their own responsibilities. I think what's hurt them more than anything else is losing Develin. Sony Michelle was doing very well running through a big hole with a big lead blocker. They're having to run to the outside to try and create space and it's not going so well. Again, Wynn should help with that, but it's no where near as effective as last years power running game, which essentially carried them through the playoffs.
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That's asking a lot of Winn who's played 2 games in his career.
While Karras has been steady there is something missing with their run blocking in the interior and maybe that's a trickle down affect.
Newhouse is defiantly an issue. They cannot get that balance they need running the ball and add the lack of time to go down his reads ,you can see why Brady is struggling.
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Plus, he is 42. I know some of you don't want to hear it, but he is 42 and is starting to look 42. He was missing throws on plays where he had plenty of time to throw. No, his O-line isn't great, but most quarterbacks in the league don't have a great O-line right now, so that excuse just doesn't fly, unless you are telling me that the GOAT can't kick ass unless everything around him is perfect. :P
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I'm going to go off on a tangent for just a moment: When/why did the practice of players exchanging jerseys onfield (on court, in the case of basketball) start? I wasn't even aware of it even being a thing just a short time ago. Now, it seems like it happens every game. And the vast majority of the time, I think it ranges from being "pointless" to "inappropriate and borderline offensive." (Richard Sherman and Russell Wilson doing it after the Monday night game last week is an example of the latter) HOWEVER, I thought Kyler Murray and Nick Bosa doing it last night was pretty fitting and cool to see.
Well, I'm not sure how it is pointless, inappropriate or borderline offensive. It's fitting between the players who do it because they either went to the same high school, college or were buddies on the same team together. It's a token of comradery and good sportsmanship. Soccer players have been doing it for decades. I think it's pretty cool. :)
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Well, I said it can be. If they went to the same school and were buddies, that makes sense. As does the example I cited. In other scenarios, it doesn't. And I'm not sure how Sherman and Wilson doing it could NOT be considered offensive. But I don't pretend to understand people. I mean, some people actually don't seem to have any qualms with wearing Wilson's jersey in public anyhow, so go figure. :dunno:
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And I'm not sure how Sherman and Wilson doing it could NOT be considered offensive. But I don't pretend to understand people. I mean, some people actually don't seem to have any qualms with wearing Wilson's jersey in public anyhow, so go figure.
Offensive to whom? And why would anyone have a problem wearing Wilson's jersey in public? I thought you were going somewhere with Sherman's departure from Seattle being less than amicable, but what's wrong with Russell Wilson? Or is this just a 49ers fan hating on the Seahawks.
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Plus, he is 42. I know some of you don't want to hear it, but he is 42 and is starting to look 42. He was missing throws on plays where he had plenty of time to throw. No, his O-line isn't great, but most quarterbacks in the league don't have a great O-line right now, so that excuse just doesn't fly, unless you are telling me that the GOAT can't kick ass unless everything around him is perfect. :P
I'm certainly open that possibility. It didn't look to me like age was his problem, though. He wasn't throwing weak balls like Peyton did, and he wasn't throwing inaccurate balls because he was overcompensating for diminishing arm strength. And he was able to evade pressure the same as he always has. He made some poor decisions, which he's done several times this year, and yesterday he was sailing some passes. I think there are a few issues. He's frustrated by the O-line and by receivers that aren't doing what he expects. He also has no running game to take keep the secondary honest. My hunch is that he's trying to force things that aren't there. His arm will give out, but I haven't seen it happening yet.
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His problem is that he doesn't believe in his offense. He seems half checked out most of the time.
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El Barto is dead on.
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I think you guys are in denial. ;) The numbers and the eye test both say that he is on the decline. He is still very good and might still get another ring thanks to that defense of theirs, but he is showing his age.
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Not at all. I know what he is. He can kill if he is protected in the pocket. At 42 he's not making plays.
If you have issues with the o line and too many new receivers you will have issues. That's on the GM/ coach.
Let's be realistic. We know he's 42. But he's no Peyton Manning at 39.
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Kev, I think there's a lot more to it than that. I'm not a Brady toadie nor a Patriots honk, but I have witnessed this whole thing pretty closely.
Physically, he's fine. He is sick of playing for Belichick, and has been for a few years. My opinion is that he's kind of checked out. He doesn't go to the off season program anymore. Doesn't take the time to build bridges with his young receivers, and is overall acting like a douche.
He seems mentally unengaged. However, this might be the worst offense he's had. But he's not helping things either, and I don't mean by aging.
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For me it's more like he has to fight for everything with Belichick and he's tired of it. He's not asking for the world but BB still treats him as every other player.
He's not asking for diva stuff but it's worn on him.
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The irony there is that Belichick treating him like every other player is probably a big reason why Brady has had such longevity. His coach never pampered him or allowed him to rest on his previous accomplishments, and because of it Brady still feels like he has to do his best to show his coach just how good he is.
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The irony there is that Belichick treating him like every other player is probably a big reason why Brady has had such longevity. His coach never pampered him or allowed him to rest on his previous accomplishments, and because of it Brady still feels like he has to do his best to show his coach just how good he is.
Totally. But in Brady's mind, he thinks he has reached a point where enough is enough.
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While I agree he is not asking for diva treatment. I think it you were great at your job Kev, better than everyone there, and paid and treated the same you would have resentment.
There is no denying that.
Through all this they are 9-1. I hope they fix the O enough that its6not an issue in the playoffs.
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The irony there is that Belichick treating him like every other player is probably a big reason why Brady has had such longevity. His coach never pampered him or allowed him to rest on his previous accomplishments, and because of it Brady still feels like he has to do his best to show his coach just how good he is.
Totally. But in Brady's mind, he thinks he has reached a point where enough is enough.
Tim, I think this stems from them not really backing him on Deflategate. Going through that with his mom going through cancer was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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I think you guys are in denial. ;) The numbers and the eye test both say that he is on the decline. He is still very good and might still get another ring thanks to that defense of theirs, but he is showing his age.
No denial here. I'm fine with the post-Brady era and have been for a while. In fact I'm looking forward to it. I just don't see anything in the decline that really looks age related.
Just watched yesterday's postgame with TB, and yeah, detached is dead on.
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Tim, I think this stems from them not really backing him on Deflategate.
But they had no choice really. It would've been Belichick's second offence and they risked losing him.
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But other than a pass (literally) for Guerrero, what is he really asking for? There's almost zero possibility he won't sign a consulting deal with the Patriots after he retires, so it's not money. He's got more rings than any player in history. He's going to start dropping records like flies here (if he hasn't already). His parking spot is right next to Belichick's (or it used to be)... What else could he possibly want other than Belichick off his back, and yet that's the system. How can you "do your job" without a system coordinator to calibrate all of it?
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Well, I said it can be. If they went to the same school and were buddies, that makes sense. As does the example I cited. In other scenarios, it doesn't. And I'm not sure how Sherman and Wilson doing it could NOT be considered offensive. But I don't pretend to understand people. I mean, some people actually don't seem to have any qualms with wearing Wilson's jersey in public anyhow, so go figure. :dunno:
I'm pretty certain if none of the 3 scenarios I mentioned exist, then they wouldn't be doing it. :justjen
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But other than a pass (literally) for Guerrero, what is he really asking for? There's almost zero possibility he won't sign a consulting deal with the Patriots after he retires, so it's not money. He's got more rings than any player in history. He's going to start dropping records like flies here (if he hasn't already). His parking spot is right next to Belichick's (or it used to be)... What else could he possibly want other than Belichick off his back, and yet that's the system. How can you "do your job" without a system coordinator to calibrate all of it?
Right. And while it's not an age thing, it's a length of service thing. At some point, you just reach a tipping point, and I feel like Brady's there.
How much of the demand of playing is he ultimately willing to meet? Brady has seemed to have one foot in and one foot out all year.
But he's acting like a douche about it. After all, the team goes first round for WR, brings in Demaryius Thomas, overextend themselves for Josh Gordon, and ultimately sign a deal with the devil and bring in Antonio Brown. Instead of putting his arm around Jakobi Myers, who seems to catch everything within arms length, and develop Gunner, who could be the next Edelman, he's freezing these guys out for what?
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Tim, I think this stems from them not really backing him on Deflategate.
But they had no choice really. It would've been Belichick's second offence and they risked losing him.
I'm talking about when Kraft was fighting hard then the owners meeting happened and he came back with his tail between his legs. The "Ask Tom" press conference didn't help either. I think Brady's bitterness grew from this.
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Kraft is a douche. Fuck him.
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I also don't think Brady is freezing out the new receivers. I just don't think he trust them to be in the right spot. Sometimes, a technical offense can hurt when young receivers are having growing pains. Let's not forget, he threw to 10 different receivers in the last game.
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Let's not forget, he threw to 10 different receivers in the last game.
So did Garoppolo last game. Apparently, Brady learned a thing or two from his tenure under Jimmy G. :biggrin:
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Tim, I think this stems from them not really backing him on Deflategate.
But they had no choice really. It would've been Belichick's second offence and they risked losing him.
I'm talking about when Kraft was fighting hard then the owners meeting happened and he came back with his tail between his legs. The "Ask Tom" press conference didn't help either. I think Brady's bitterness grew from this.
My understanding is that he wasn't even through the door of that meeting before somebody came up to him and said "nobody in this room is going to support you. This is already done and you lost." It was very clear that there was no means of fighting it.
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I also don't think Brady is freezing out the new receivers. I just don't think he trust them to be in the right spot. Sometimes, a technical offense can hurt when young receivers are having growing pains. Let's not forget, he threw to 10 different receivers in the last game.
And one pass to thin air when Meyer's botched his route. I think Meyers will turn out to be very good, but Brady's not going to coach him during a game.
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But other than a pass (literally) for Guerrero, what is he really asking for? There's almost zero possibility he won't sign a consulting deal with the Patriots after he retires, so it's not money. He's got more rings than any player in history. He's going to start dropping records like flies here (if he hasn't already). His parking spot is right next to Belichick's (or it used to be)... What else could he possibly want other than Belichick off his back, and yet that's the system. How can you "do your job" without a system coordinator to calibrate all of it?
Right. And while it's not an age thing, it's a length of service thing. At some point, you just reach a tipping point, and I feel like Brady's there.
How much of the demand of playing is he ultimately willing to meet? Brady has seemed to have one foot in and one foot out all year.
I suspect Brady wants to be treated something more akin to a peer than some rookie player. Belichick was around to see Parcells act ruthlessly towards Phil Simms while coddling LT, so he's got a pretty good understanding of treating different players as they need to be treated. TB probably wants to go from Simms to Taylor, and I suppose in a way he's entitled. That doesn't mean it's the right thing, though.
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And even if it may be the "right thing," that doesn't mean BB isn't entitled to exercise his own coaching philosophy whether or not one of his players agrees.
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Let's not forget, he threw to 10 different receivers in the last game.
So did Garoppolo last game. Apparently, Brady learned a thing or two from his tenure under Jimmy G. :biggrin:
:lol
I also don't think Brady is freezing out the new receivers. I just don't think he trust them to be in the right spot. Sometimes, a technical offense can hurt when young receivers are having growing pains. Let's not forget, he threw to 10 different receivers in the last game.
And one pass to thin air when Meyer's botched his route. I think Meyers will turn out to be very good, but Brady's not going to coach him during a game.
Yup. I just hope they stay healthy and start building a repertoire.
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But other than a pass (literally) for Guerrero, what is he really asking for? There's almost zero possibility he won't sign a consulting deal with the Patriots after he retires, so it's not money. He's got more rings than any player in history. He's going to start dropping records like flies here (if he hasn't already). His parking spot is right next to Belichick's (or it used to be)... What else could he possibly want other than Belichick off his back, and yet that's the system. How can you "do your job" without a system coordinator to calibrate all of it?
Right. And while it's not an age thing, it's a length of service thing. At some point, you just reach a tipping point, and I feel like Brady's there.
How much of the demand of playing is he ultimately willing to meet? Brady has seemed to have one foot in and one foot out all year.
I suspect Brady wants to be treated something more akin to a peer than some rookie player. Belichick was around to see Parcells act ruthlessly towards Phil Simms while coddling LT, so he's got a pretty good understanding of treating different players as they need to be treated. TB probably wants to go from Simms to Taylor, and I suppose in a way he's entitled. That doesn't mean it's the right thing, though.
I love love love that you mentioned Parcells/Simms/Taylor, because for me it's a textbook example of Hall of Fame coaching. Parcells knew he had a journeyman QB who he could get to play above his means, and he had a once in a generation - hell, maybe once a century - player who he just needed to stay out of the way of. Simms has gone on record to say he hated it at the time, but in hindsight acknowledges that Parcells handled it the best way he could.
The important part of that whole scenario is your last sentence. Neither Simms nor Taylor were the ones to say what should be. That's PARCELLS job. Belichick ought not change anything at this point. His handling of Brady speaks for itself. The very premise of the Belichick system makes Brady's position wrong.
So if you're Belichick and/or Kraft, you have to ask; do you sacrifice a season or two in the name of a Hall Of Fame career, or do you have a hard conversation with Brady and suggest that it's better he take his victory lap in Denver, or Miami, or any of those teams that have their equivalent of a Phil Simms without Parcells/Taylor.
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Well, Brady's going to make that decision on his own. Based on what we're seeing now he's gone the day after their last game. Not only is he disinterested in his current situation, I think he wants the opportunity to prove himself out from under Bill's shadow
Also, when he goes elsewhere, Gronk will follow him.
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Well, Brady's going to make that decision on his own. Based on what we're seeing now he's gone the day after their last game. Not only is he disinterested in his current situation, I think he wants the opportunity to prove himself out from under Bill's shadow
Also, when he goes elsewhere, Gronk will follow him.
I think if he was going to go that route, he should have done it years ago when he was still in his prime and before Father Time was taking its toll. If he does it now, I foresee a Brett Favre on the Jets/last season with the Vikings situation.
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Well, Brady's going to make that decision on his own. Based on what we're seeing now he's gone the day after their last game. Not only is he disinterested in his current situation, I think he wants the opportunity to prove himself out from under Bill's shadow
Also, when he goes elsewhere, Gronk will follow him.
I think if he was going to go that route, he should have done it years ago when he was still in his prime and before Father Time was taking its toll. If he does it now, I foresee a Brett Favre on the Jets/last season with the Vikings situation.
Yea, I do as well. That's a very risky thing to do at his age. He's better off retiring on a high note than risk it with another team for one more season to try and prove something.
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Well, Brady's going to make that decision on his own. Based on what we're seeing now he's gone the day after their last game. Not only is he disinterested in his current situation, I think he wants the opportunity to prove himself out from under Bill's shadow
Also, when he goes elsewhere, Gronk will follow him.
I was just saying this to my wife this morning. If Brady is QBing one of the LA teams next year, Gronk will be his TE. No question.
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Well, Brady's going to make that decision on his own. Based on what we're seeing now he's gone the day after their last game. Not only is he disinterested in his current situation, I think he wants the opportunity to prove himself out from under Bill's shadow
Also, when he goes elsewhere, Gronk will follow him.
I think if he was going to go that route, he should have done it years ago when he was still in his prime and before Father Time was taking its toll. If he does it now, I foresee a Brett Favre on the Jets/last season with the Vikings situation.
I agree that he should have done it years ago, but as I've already said I haven't seen that age is his current problem. I think if he's playing with more determination he's a better QB than what we're seeing. Also, you cite Favre as an example, and I certainly couldn't rule it out, but Manning won a superbowl with his head when he couldn't throw a ball 20 yards. Yeah, I know the D did most of the work, but that doesn't mean they still win if Mark Sanchez had been their QB.
edit: And I still think his career ends like Janikowski's, and that'll be a damn shame.
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Why wouldn't TB retire as a Patriot? Anything else just doesn't compute. Don't play the drama card like Favre did. :\
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Why wouldn't TB retire as a Patriot? Anything else just doesn't compute. Don't play the drama card like Favre did. :\
He very well could.
But I think TB12 (the brand) depends on him prolonging his career.
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Nah, he just needs to be the GOAT and go gracefully. An old man out there trying not to get hurt or worse isn't good for the brand.
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Wow does Rivers suck. Against that KC defense, with all those weapons he has. 7 picks over the last 2 games. Dan Patrick brought out some pretty damning stats on him on his show today. He’s basically always been a stat compiler like Stafford. The only Hall of Fame he’ll be elected to is the shot-put hall of fame.
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Wow does Rivers suck. Against that KC defense, with all those weapons he has. 7 picks over the last 2 games. Dan Patrick brought out some pretty damning stats on him on his show today. He’s basically always been a stat compiler like Stafford. The only Hall of Fame he’ll be elected to is the shot-put hall of fame.
I watched the end of that game, and those last two ints. They showed a stat that he has the third most wins without winning a SB, about 20 or so behind Dan Marino and yet I feel like Dan Marino was way more loved and cherished as a great QB. Ive never been a fan of Rivers and every time I want to see him prove me wrong, he proves me right. The only thing I can say about him over Eli Manning is that Eli isn't playing anymore while he still is. Still an amazing QB class with him, Eli, and Ben.
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I agree that he should have done it years ago, but as I've already said I haven't seen that age is his current problem. I think if he's playing with more determination he's a better QB than what we're seeing. Also, you cite Favre as an example, and I certainly couldn't rule it out, but Manning won a superbowl with his head when he couldn't throw a ball 20 yards. Yeah, I know the D did most of the work, but that doesn't mean they still win if Mark Sanchez had been their QB.
edit: And I still think his career ends like Janikowski's, and that'll be a damn shame.
Very true. It's comical when I see some try to put an asterisk next to Manning's 2nd Super Bowl win.
Wow does Rivers suck. Against that KC defense, with all those weapons he has. 7 picks over the last 2 games. Dan Patrick brought out some pretty damning stats on him on his show today. He’s basically always been a stat compiler like Stafford. The only Hall of Fame he’ll be elected to is the shot-put hall of fame.
Eh, he is/was way better than Stafford ever was. Despite his lack of playoff success, he was almost as good as any QB in the latter half of the 00's. That said, last night was the 2nd game in a row where he made decisions and throws at the end of the game that made me think, "What in the hell is he doing?"
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49ers continue to simultaneously impress and foster doubt about how good they actually are. This week: Getting the run game bottled up, commiting unnecessary mistakes, and almost losing to a 3-win team is concerning. On the flip-side, as to all of those things: "it happens," and finding ways to overcome that, never at any point feel like the game is out of reach, and finding a way to get it done before the clock reaches 0:00 is the mark of a good team.
I could see them realistically finishing anywhere between 11-5 and a wildcard to 14-2 with the #1 seed. And while I think somewhere in between those two scenarios is the most likely, I'm ultimately just happy for how far this team has come. And while a LOT of people would consider 11-5 an extreme disappointment, that is still far above where the team was projected to finish before the season began, and would be such a marked improvement over last year. To even be having a legitimate conversation about them being able to go all the way this year is a HUGE stride forward.
If I had to make a prediction right now, I'm going to say 12-4 finish. I think they likely beat the Packers, lose to the Saints and Ravens, and drop another "shoulda won" game somewhere down the stretch. But honestly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the exact opposite happens, and they lose to the Packers, beat the Saints and Ravens, and then drop another one somewhere to finish 13-3. Honestly, I think the margin between the top teams right now is VERY small.
This is my feelings on the Niners as well. I had them penciled in at a 12-4 finish. I have them losing to the Saints, Ravens, and Seahawks and beating the Packers, Rams, and Falcons. I guess time will tell. They could conceivably beat all of those teams though. I think it all depends on how dominant their defense is going to be on any given Sunday.
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I haven't been doing my power rankings and MVP top contenders this season, but just for fun this week...
Power Rankings Top 10
1. Baltimore - on a roll right now and look like the team to beat
2. New Orleans - that inexplicable game against Atlanta notwithstanding, they have looked terrific for most of the season
3. New England - defense is the best they've had since the early 00's
4. San Francisco - defense being leaky all of a sudden is a slight concern
5. Green Bay - feels like they are just a notch below both NO and SF, but Rodgers can make up the difference
6. Seattle - R. Wilson is covering up a lot of their warts
7. Minnesota - ugly win is still a win, and they are loaded almost everywhere
8. Kansas City - hard to trust them in a big game with that bad defense
9. Dallas - a lot of talent on offense, but the defense is not as good as last year
10. Houston - ugly loss, but still 6-4 and have four of their last six at home
MVP contenders
1. Russell Wilson - feels like his award to lose at this point
2. Lamar Jackson - making a strong push for the number 1 spot
3. Patrick Mahomes - missing time will cost him a repeat, but his value to this team is still huge
4. Kirk Cousins - feels like he is getting overlooked, because of his bad rap, but the Vikings surge happened as soon as he started playing lights out
5. Aaron Rodgers - not putting up great stats like always, but what he did when Davante Adams missed a month was pretty special
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I think putting the Ravens at #1 is a bit of an overreaction. But I can't really argue with it too much either. The difference between the teams at the top feels VERY narrow right now.
The next 3 weeks should be pretty awesome. The 49ers, a first place team, play 3 other first place teams: Packers, Ravens, Saints. The Seahawks have a tough stretch against the Eagles, Vikings, and Rams (who although not very good, tend to play the Seahawks tough). And the Pats have tough games against the Cowboys, Texans, and Chiefs. The next 3 weeks should tell us a lot.
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In the last month, Baltimore has won by 14 at 8-2 Seattle, beat 9-1 New England by 17, and beat 6-4 Houston by 34. I had my doubts about them earlier in the season, but no one is playing better football than them right now.
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Wow does Rivers suck. Against that KC defense, with all those weapons he has. 7 picks over the last 2 games. Dan Patrick brought out some pretty damning stats on him on his show today. He’s basically always been a stat compiler like Stafford. The only Hall of Fame he’ll be elected to is the shot-put hall of fame.
Eh, he is/was way better than Stafford ever was. Despite his lack of playoff success, he was almost as good as any QB in the latter half of the 00's. That said, last night was the 2nd game in a row where he made decisions and throws at the end of the game that made me think, "What in the hell is he doing?"
I've never been a fan of Rivers to begin with, and I'm resisting the urge to just pile on a guy in the twilight of his career, but some of this isn't about age, it's that he's making some bad decisions. Decisions that a 16 year vet shouldn't be making.
I read a good article this morning - I think on SB Nation - that San Diego (they'll always be San Diego to me) ought to move on right now. I agree.
I know I'm in the minority around here for this opinion, but I think "playoff success" is an important metric, and we're seeing now WHY there is a "lack of playoff success". He's got opportunities to win games, he has the tools with which to do it, and yet he's not delivering the goods.
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In the last month, Baltimore has won by 14 at 8-2 Seattle, beat 9-1 New England by 17, and beat 6-4 Houston by 34. I had my doubts about them earlier in the season, but no one is playing better football than them right now.
Don't disagree, and it was fun to see Baltimore's enthusiasm last week when I was down there, but key word is "right now". I'm really looking forward to when Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, et al get round two and know a little better what to expect. Even the Jet game might be enlightening; they suck and they're one dimensional, but the one dimension is run defense, so forcing a team that's barely a top 20 passing team to do so will be interesting.
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In the last month, Baltimore has won by 14 at 8-2 Seattle, beat 9-1 New England by 17, and beat 6-4 Houston by 34. I had my doubts about them earlier in the season, but no one is playing better football than them right now.
They have been firing on all cylinders right now. They deserve the accolades.
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In the last month, Baltimore has won by 14 at 8-2 Seattle, beat 9-1 New England by 17, and beat 6-4 Houston by 34. I had my doubts about them earlier in the season, but no one is playing better football than them right now.
They have been firing on all cylinders right now. They deserve the accolades.
Let's not forget that they gave up 40 points to the Browns in week 4 at home. There's still the possibility of the wheels falling off. Of course, that goes for just about any team these days.
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But adding 2 players and the D has found itself.
People crap on the AFC East but the Pats loose to these teams the most because of familiarity. That foes with the Browns & Ravens.
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Even the best teams have that one game where they play terrible, like that Ravens game against Cleveland, like that Saints game against Atlanta, etc. Heck, New England won the Super Bowl last season despite getting crushed on the road by both Detroit and Tennessee. I will trust what I see most weeks over what I saw just one.
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The NFL can't be trusted because the overall product continues to deteriorate. :rollin
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Exactly. :lol :lol
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I was going to say "it not deteriorating, it's just..." and then I realized that it IS deteriorating. We can discuss how's and why's, and we may or may not come to an understanding why, but the fact is, it is.
I grew up watching baseball, football, and hockey. Baseball was ALWAYS on (we got the Yanks on Channel 11, WPIX, and the Mets on Channel 9, WOR), football you had to wait until Sunday - always the 1:00 game, sometimes the 4:00 game - then Monday, but it was only those two or three games, tops. Hockey you had to wait until the playoffs. I've soured on baseball in the last couple years; I think the steroid thing ruined it, and the $750 million contracts didn't help. There just aren't enough guys like Paul Molitor, or Paul O'Neill (REALLY good players who weren't attention whores like Barry Bonds and Sam Sosa). It's hard to relate to now. Hockey is still good, but there are too many teams, and I lament the movement south of the border.
Football was the last bastion; I enjoy/enjoyed the Thursday games, I enjoy/enjoyed the Sunday night games, but it's fast turning into the NBA. I don't watch football to watch assholes strutting and signaling their first downs, or miming after touchdowns, and the de-evolution of some teams into one-man shows is boring to me. I'm not on the Mahomes/Jackson bandwagon. I'd much rather see the coordinated, systemic execution of 11 guys moving the football down the field than watching watching one guy run around like it's a game of cream the carrier, then heave it 40 yards to a guy that's barely open, then get the flag because the defensive back touched the receivers (penile) helmet by accident.
I'll still watch, but as the current wave of players/coaches goes by the wayside, I can see my interest diminishing if something isn't done. I'll watch Belichick, Brady, Tomlin, Roethlisberger, Harbaugh, but if the next wave is a Mahomes, Beckham Jr., Brown, Gase, Kitchener WWF event, I'm probably out. I'll go back to hockey.
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Or, check this out, you could watch both football AND hockey! :P
But I hear what you are saying. I do find if interesting that you get irritated by players getting bailed out by flags when the team you always defend (Patriots) have a made an art out of it. Credit Belichick, who reportedly coaches his team every week on who the officials are, based on the tendencies of how those officials call their games, and how to get them to throw flags in certain situations. Sure, it is great coaching and a good example of how he is so far ahead of everyone else, and by no means am I suggesting that the Patriots win a lot of games due to getting flags thrown in their favor, but it's indicative of the kind of game we are now getting (watered down, overly officiated, etc.).
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Or, check this out, you could watch both football AND hockey! :P
That got a laugh out loud. Yes, I suppose I can. :)
But I hear what you are saying. I do find if interesting that you get irritated by players getting bailed out by flags when the team you always defend (Patriots) have a made an art out of it. Credit Belichick, who reportedly coaches his team every week on who the officials are, based on the tendencies of how those officials call their games, and how to get them to throw flags in certain situations. Sure, it is great coaching and a good example of how he is so far ahead of everyone else, and by no means am I suggesting that the Patriots win a lot of games due to getting flags thrown in their favor, but it's indicative of the kind of game we are now getting (watered down, overly officiated, etc.).
Well, you've answered the question on the Patriots thing, and I've written about it before. You're correct, Belichick has a session each week dedicated STRICTLY to the officiating crew. I think that's a dedication to details that some coaches could do more of. In any event, playing the refs is not the same issue as the NFL's new "cover our litigation asses" approach to open field tackling, rushing the quarterback, or defending pass routes. I think we've gone beyond protecting the players into something else. In my opinion, I think you're likely to see MORE injuries as players pull up or try to cushion their blows, and that's not good for anyone. Of course I don't want to see another Darryl Stingley*, and it makes me sad that guys like Gronk are just abusing their bodies, but there's a line.
(By the way, I looked him up - to spell his name correctly - and read this from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darryl_Stingley). Heartbreaking and heartwarming at the same time: "[Jack] Tatum's coach, John Madden, and many of his [Raider] teammates extended their sympathies to Stingley. Madden's post-game rush to the hospital was the beginning of a close friendship. In fact, during his visit Madden found himself the lone visitor in the hospital. No one from the Patriots was there, until Madden called their team and the team's charter plane, in takeoff mode, finally returned to the gate. Raiders offensive guard Gene Upshaw also befriended Stingley, and later was instrumental in securing benefits for disabled players through the NFL Players' Association.")
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The real pisser is that Jerry Jones (according to several who know him well) thinks that officiating controversies are good for the league, since it creates buzz and gets people talking. I would bet money that he is big reason why PI calls that are being challenged are almost never overturned, even when it's obvious that they should be, as owners do not like being told what to do, and after last year's NFCCG controversy and basically having to do something to appease both the fans and the Saints, this is their way of giving the middle finger to everyone. "Okay, here is your rule, but nothing is going to change!"
The new kickoff rules have made onside kicks even more difficult to recover than they were before, and I have seen the idea tossed out about a rule change where the team having to kick off near the end of game can instead get one 4th and 15 play from their own 30. I like that idea in theory, but then I can see it now where some chicken shit hold or PI call will give the team the 1st down and games will get decided because of that kind of horse shit.
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Oooh, I don't like that 4th and 15 idea. I think you have to DO something to get repeat possession.
I hate that mentality; the reality TV "any drama is good drama" mentality. He may be right in the moment, and the moment may generate revenue, but it cheapens the product over all. I don't think fans are going to stick around long if they feel that the outcome to games is decided off the field. I'm a fan of the Saints, even if I'm not a Saints fan, and I have deep problems with that call in the Rams game. It was SO blatant, and with all the so-called protections against "bad calls", there was literally no alternative, no option for the Saints in that instance. They was, arguably, jobbed again earlier this season (against the same team, too). That's only going to last so long.
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Ew on that 4th and 15 idea too. I dont like that at all.
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Ew on that 4th and 15 idea too. I dont like that at all.
I don't either, but they need to do something.
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The way I see it, the booth reviews in NY aren't overturning bad PI calls because they are protecting their good ole boys on the field instead doing the right thing. This "not enough visual evidence to overturn" is a load of crap. The announcers and fans aren't stupid. We have eyes and see the exact same thing on replay. So there can only be one reason why most obvious bad calls never get overturned. NFL corporate politics. I think Kev was referring to Jerry Jones in that capacity but I think it goes way beyond his influence in the league.
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That's not a new idea. Didn't Greg Schiano come up with it, or something like it, after the Eric Legrand injury?
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Obviously I'm in the minority here, but I've got no problem with the state of PI calls right now. They're discretionary and there's some required subtlety. Just because a player has his arm hooked around another player doesn't mean that he's hassling him, or preventing him from doing something. That's a call best made by a guy on the field, feet away from them. Watching in real time. Hearing them. Seeing their reactions. I think people watching 4k 60fps are focusing on the tiniest details rather than seeing the overall picture. In the case of NO-LA it was a no brainer. With anything that requires any judgement be made I want it done by the people on the ground.
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Obviously I'm in the minority here, but I've got no problem with the state of PI calls right now. They're discretionary and there's some required subtlety. Just because a player has his arm hooked around another player doesn't mean that he's hassling him, or preventing him from doing something. That's a call best made by a guy on the field, feet away from them. Watching in real time. Hearing them. Seeing their reactions. I think people watching 4k 60fps are focusing on the tiniest details rather than seeing the overall picture. In the case of NO-LA it was a no brainer. With anything that requires any judgement be made I want it done by the people on the ground.
I actually agree with this. There have been easily five or even ten times when they've gone to Mike Pereira who has said "in real time that was the right call". There IS a feel to these things that needs to be preserved. I'm more interested in the inconsistencies, and the way the rules have made certain plays impossible to execute. I don't want to see shitty open field tackling and 57-47 scores because a defensive back has no idea how to apply the shoulder pad without drawing a 15-yard penalty and an automatic first down.
And, respectfully, I don't agree that the lack of overturned calls is some "good old boy" conspiracy. The fact is, the refs get it right FAR more often than they get it wrong. We just have to have some mechanism for when it's REALLY wrong. I think what it comes down to is, use replay to supplement the on-field refs, not second guess them.
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Obviously I'm in the minority here, but I've got no problem with the state of PI calls right now.
I don't either, but what I do have a problem with is a rule that says PI calls can be reviewed but the review fails to correct clear and obvious calls. Hell...I'm not sure at this point that the call in the Rams/Saints game would be overturned. Either apply the rule properly or get rid of the rule. I'd be fine with either one.
And the onside kick thing sucks too. I don't remember why the change was made but assume it was "player safety," but I don't recall any sort of epidemic of serious injuries on onside kicks. If they don't change it, someone will figure out some way to make it work, but until then it's a nearly pointless exercise.
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Obviously I'm in the minority here, but I've got no problem with the state of PI calls right now.
I don't either, but what I do have a problem with is a rule that says PI calls can be reviewed but the review fails to correct clear and obvious calls. Hell...I'm not sure at this point that the call in the Rams/Saints game would be overturned. Either apply the rule properly or get rid of the rule. I'd be fine with either one.
And the onside kick thing sucks too. I don't remember why the change was made but assume it was "player safety," but I don't recall any sort of epidemic of serious injuries on onside kicks. If they don't change it, someone will figure out some way to make it work, but until then it's a nearly pointless exercise.
I don't think it was specifically onside kicks, but the rules for kickoffs in general had the side effect of reducing (greatly) the success of onside kicks. I could be wrong, but one change was the prohibition on getting a running start for the kick, and one was you couldn't overload one side.
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Obviously I'm in the minority here, but I've got no problem with the state of PI calls right now.
I don't either, but what I do have a problem with is a rule that says PI calls can be reviewed but the review fails to correct clear and obvious calls. Hell...I'm not sure at this point that the call in the Rams/Saints game would be overturned. Either apply the rule properly or get rid of the rule. I'd be fine with either one.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Clear and obvious as seen in a replay by both fans and the booth. We all know the rule. NFL officiating isn't enforcing the rule even after they made it reviewable. As a result, coaches are wasting a challenge and a TO for nothing.
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Does anybody know if the referee is in contact, like actually conversing, with the crew in NY when these things occur? That could make a big difference, and certainly provide some detail that we're not privy to watching at home. "Well, yeah he did have his hand on his shoulder, but when you were down here it was very clear that the receiver was already off balance and stumbling anyway, hence incidental contact." Or perhaps: "I could see his face well enough to know that he was clearly playing for the ball and not trying to interfere." The sorts of things that wouldn't be clear during a slow motion replay, and certainly not something the networks want you to know. Remember, grumbling about sports is quite lucrative, and announcers hate dead air.
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Pouncy had his suspension shortened to two games. I probably would have started with 2 and lessened it to 1, but I'm still good with this. Like I said, I think there needed to be some consideration to his onfield obligation. The fact that the people hearing his review were Derick Brooks and James Thrash, who would certainly understand this, definitely made a big difference there.
edit: Oh, and changing the basis of your appeal from "I'm sorry, I fucked up" to "he called me a bad word" definitely doesn't help your case any. Pick a defense and stick with it. That said, while I'm skeptical that it happened, it would explain a lot of things. The whole thing, actually. Garrett's freakout really didn't make any sense without something like that setting him off.
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edit: Oh, and changing the basis of your appeal from "I'm sorry, I fucked up" to "he called me a bad word" definitely doesn't help your case any. Pick a defense and stick with it. That said, while I'm skeptical that it happened, it would explain a lot of things. The whole thing, actually. Garrett's freakout really didn't make any sense without something like that setting him off.
I tend to agree. But that said, I can see some situations where him not saying anything, and then coming out with it later could possibly make sense. For instance, I might understand if Garrett said something like: "Yeah, he absolutely said it. But I didn't say anything at the time because I understand that sometimes, good guys say something terrible and out of character in the moment, and I get that me outing him for it is going to be something that would stick with his name and reputation forever, so I was trying to take the high road and not drag him through that. But Rudolph has been a jerk about it since then, and I am realizing that the way this is being played out, it just looks like I am some out of control maniac, and that isn't fair, so I think the whole story needs to come out."
EDIT: And the thing is, it should be fairly easy to verify. The entire incident happened in pretty close quarters with other players from both teams. If he said it loudly enough for Garrett to hear, others should have heard it as well. Looking at video, DeCastro and Pouncey may have been the only ones there (they are the only other players in the shot when the skirmish breaks out), and maybe they just back their guy, but I would think that, for Pouncey at least, racial solidarity would trump "team" if Rudolph had actually said something that offensive.
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Several of his teammates were asked about today and acted surprised because they had clearly heard nothing about it before today, meaning Garrett likely made it up to try and excuse his actions. Frankly, if I am Mason Rudolph and I didn't say it, I am reconsidering filing charges. If Garrett is going to make up something like that to assassinate his character, screw that, go scorched earth on him and see how he likes dealing with an assault charge.
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Several of his teammates were asked about today and acted surprised because they had clearly heard nothing about it before today, meaning Garrett likely made it up to try and excuse his actions. Frankly, if I am Mason Rudolph and I didn't say it, I am reconsidering filing charges. If Garrett is going to make up something like that to assassinate his character, screw that, go scorched earth on him and see how he likes dealing with an assault charge.
As bad as MG making up the thing about the slur is, MR filing charges would stick with him as a negative for much longer. I don't think that most fans care about the language being used on the field, but some of them would probably think that MR would be over-reacting if he filed the charges and it would be setting a dangerous precedent.
I don't really agree with the view that I think most fans would take, but I honestly think that it would go in that direction.
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Several of his teammates were asked about today and acted surprised because they had clearly heard nothing about it before today, meaning Garrett likely made it up to try and excuse his actions. Frankly, if I am Mason Rudolph and I didn't say it, I am reconsidering filing charges. If Garrett is going to make up something like that to assassinate his character, screw that, go scorched earth on him and see how he likes dealing with an assault charge.
As bad as MG making up the thing about the slur is, MR filing charges would stick with him as a negative for much longer. I don't think that most fans care about the language being used on the field, but some of them would probably think that MR would be over-reacting if he filed the charges and it would be setting a dangerous precedent.
I don't really agree with the view that I think most fans would take, but I honestly think that it would go in that direction.
Maybe, but Mason's lawyer calling MG's lawyer and saying "Listen, broheim; knock this shit off. We're not threatened at all, and I'm sure you don't want your client to be the next Jussie Kaepernick" might do something. I think Bosk is right; it is likely something easily verified, both with players in proximity, to analysis of the tape, to a scrub of the field level mics they have (the parabola ones are remarkably good at picking up sound, even if it might be a further puzzle to affirm who made the sound).
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The only people that believe Garrett’s BS are low IQ Browns and Bengals fans. If you ever perused message boards of those teams you’d be astonished at the level of misanthropy, delusion, and ignorance. One of the posters has the image of Garrett trying to bash Rudolph’s skull in as his avatar. I peruse a lot of NFL forums but the Bengals and Browns are easily the worst. Not even Jets, Bills, and Dolphins fans have as much animosity toward the Patriots as those 2 teams’ fans have against the Steelers.
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The only people that believe Garrett’s BS are low IQ Browns and Bengals fans. If you ever perused message boards of those teams you’d be astonished at the level of misanthropy, delusion, and ignorance. One of the posters has the image of Garrett trying to bash Rudolph’s skull in as his avatar. I peruse a lot of NFL forums but the Bengals and Browns are easily the worst. Not even Jets, Bills, and Dolphins fans have as much animosity toward the Patriots as those 2 teams’ fans have against the Steelers.
Well, decades of getting your ass kicked by that franchise over and over and over and over and over and over will inspire a lot of hate.
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The only people that believe Garrett’s BS are low IQ Browns and Bengals fans. If you ever perused message boards of those teams you’d be astonished at the level of misanthropy, delusion, and ignorance. One of the posters has the image of Garrett trying to bash Rudolph’s skull in as his avatar. I peruse a lot of NFL forums but the Bengals and Browns are easily the worst. Not even Jets, Bills, and Dolphins fans have as much animosity toward the Patriots as those 2 teams’ fans have against the Steelers.
Well, decades of getting your ass kicked by that franchise over and over and over and over and over and over will inspire a lot of hate.
I don’t think it’s fair to chalk it up to that. I’m a Jets fan and I’ve endured a lot of Patriots related heartbreak. My avatar on another forum used to be a picture of Brady standing in stunned silence as the Jets scored a touchdown in the 2010 playoffs. However, I would never have a picture of Brady laying on the field after tearing his ACL as my avatar. You can have intense hatred towards a team, but you should couple it with this thing called class.
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The only people that believe Garrett’s BS are low IQ Browns and Bengals fans. If you ever perused message boards of those teams you’d be astonished at the level of misanthropy, delusion, and ignorance. One of the posters has the image of Garrett trying to bash Rudolph’s skull in as his avatar. I peruse a lot of NFL forums but the Bengals and Browns are easily the worst. Not even Jets, Bills, and Dolphins fans have as much animosity toward the Patriots as those 2 teams’ fans have against the Steelers.
Well, decades of getting your ass kicked by that franchise over and over and over and over and over and over will inspire a lot of hate.
I'm a life-long (46 1/2 years) Ohio resident, and I'd be willing to say that many of my home state's sports fans don't exhibit much class to speak of. The only local team that I root for is Ohio State, and I tend to keep my discussion of them low-key because I don't want to be lumped in with the rest of the fanbase that act like ignorant children. Of course, these are only generalizations, and don't apply to them as a whole, but I'll be damned if a great deal of them don't make it difficult most of the time.
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Whoops, forgot to tell you guys to put your money on the Bengals. Too late I guess. Rudolph and the offense are beyond putrid.
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The Jets are a completely different team when their offensive line is playing well. Give Sam Darnold pass protection and he’s a superstar.
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Haha they bench Rudloph and scored a touchdown.
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4-7 with a fairly easy schedule other than the Ravens. The Jets won’t make the playoffs this year, but they have a shot at having a respectable record especially when you consider the nightmare start to their season without Darnold.
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"Flu-gate" seems off to a slow start. I'm thinking some schmo with all access passes to last weeks Dallas game makes it into the locker room post - game … " The Dallas Cowboys , man I love all-ya-all AHHHH-CHOOOO ". Shaking hands , getting up close and every so often "AHHHH-CHOOOO ".
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I believe they worked for Kraft Productions.
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I believe they worked for Kraft Productions.
Craft Laboratories Inc. Some homeless cat , Friday he was broke and cold on a side street in Boston. Sunday he is getting off a plane ( and sweating ) with an uber waiting on him at DAL airport. AhhChooo.
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Serious ass whooping happening in Santa Clara...
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I called it weeks ago and I'll say it again, the Niners are THE team to beat. Just completely dominated the Packers.
Although next week will be the true test, against the Ravens.
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I completely agree...and I'd love to face Seattle again now with Kittle back. He adds that extra something to defend that just opens up the run game so nicely. Just hope they all stay healthy.
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Hopefully Staley will be back next week.
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I completely agree...and I'd love to face Seattle again now with Kittle back. He adds that extra something to defend that just opens up the run game so nicely. Just hope they all stay healthy.
Don't they face Seattle again the last game of the season? I hope Seattle will be ready for that one, the 49ers are probably the strongest team when they are all healthy. Seahawks are doing pretty good though and their defense is getting better down the stretch. They are also 6-0 on the road and 9-2 overall. I better double my dose of beta-blockers before that game.. Go Hawks!
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Wow no comments on those “tripping” calls against Dallas? Anyway, if you were Brady why would you ever retire? He was ass yesterday but the D gave him 2 short fields and that was all that was needed. He could easily ride this D to another Super Bowl.
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I saw about two minutes of the Dal/NE game, and yeah that tripping call was a farce, but was anyone surprised?
I saw a little of the GB/SF game, which I am sure the NFL was pleased about flexing into Sunday night until the 49ers showed up looking like world beaters and the Packers looked like a team with a rookie head coach who had no idea how to prepare his team coming off of the bye week.
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Imagine having all these offensive issue and being 10-1?
1st world problems.
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I saw about two minutes of the Dal/NE game, and yeah that tripping call was a farce, but was anyone surprised?
Not sure how to take that; if that's more about how "The NFL loves New England", please. There were about three plays where Edelman got a happy ending from the DB before the pass was thrown and nothing.
If it's a complaint about the unpredictability of the calls, well, that's certainly up for discussion. Any comments on that Green Bay catch that was ruled incomplete (and not challenged)? Two steps and a football move, THEN the ball popped out as he hit the ground. Might not have made a difference, but still...
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Wow no comments on those “tripping” calls against Dallas? Anyway, if you were Brady why would you ever retire? He was ass yesterday but the D gave him 2 short fields and that was all that was needed. He could easily ride this D to another Super Bowl.
Both of those tripping calls were bogus, perhaps even costing Dallas the game. Two very important first downs were negated because of those bogus calls. The Patriots did not outplay the Cowboys in that game.
The Cowboys had to play the Patriots and the Refs.
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I would say that this was something taught to the Dallas O line as a way to get away with a trip with a wide stance and with all great couches they bring it up to the refs durring the week and before the game to get it on the refs minds.
Jedi mind tricks.
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My take won't be worth anything here, but I agreed with Mike Pereira. The dude stuck his leg up in the air and made contact with the guy. You can't do that. The first one clearly wasn't a trip, though. He was just kicking the guy in the balls.
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My take won't be worth anything here, but I agreed with Mike Pereira. The dude stuck his leg up in the air and made contact with the guy. You can't do that. The first one clearly wasn't a trip, though. He was just kicking the guy in the balls.
:lol
Yep, your take doesn't mean anything here.. :biggrin:
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with all great couches
(https://stronglang.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/sofa-king-bus-ad.jpg)
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with all great couches
(https://stronglang.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/sofa-king-bus-ad.jpg)
:rollin
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Old Man Update:
Tom Brady is now 15th in the NFL in QBR; he is 21st passer rating.
Tom Brady is 28th in the NFL in YPA.
Tom Brady is 14th in the NFL in TD passes.
Tom Brady is 23rd in completion percentage.
Some of y'all can talk about rain, his receivers and his o-line all day, but by just about any measure, he is on the clear decline. That is probably why he looks so pissy all the time now, as he knows Father Time has arrived, and there is nothing he can do about it.
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Old Man Update:
Tom Brady is now 15th in the NFL in QBR; he is 21st passer rating.
Tom Brady is 28th in the NFL in YPA.
Tom Brady is 14th in the NFL in TD passes.
Tom Brady is 23rd in completion percentage.
Some of y'all can talk about rain, his receivers and his o-line all day, but by just about any measure, he is on the clear decline. That is probably why he looks so pissy all the time now, as he knows Father Time has arrived, and there is nothing he can do about it.
What part of him is it that you think is failing? I'm not trying to argue with you, he's certainly not as good as he was, but I'm not seeing any age specific problems.
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Grumpy Man Update:
KevShmev is #1 in the league for PITA (Pain In The Ass) Rating
KevShmev is odds on favorite for the Na Na Nananana Award
KevShmev wishes Tom Brady played for the Broncos
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What part of him is it that you think is failing? I'm not trying to argue with you, he's certainly not as good as he was, but I'm not seeing any age specific problems.
It is never just one little thing. Heck, Peyton's true decline started in 2014 (IIRC) when he had a quad injury that was just bothersome enough to affect his play, and we've heard about Brady having issues this year with both a knee and an elbow. Now, you could chalk that up to normal dings and aches over a 16-week season, which most players get, but as you get older, those injuries take longer to heal and pop up more often, and in the case of Brady's knee or elbow, they could be just annoying enough to affect his throws, which might explain why his accuracy has been off at times this season. I have seen him miss throws that he used to make in his sleep. And plenty of other QB's are dealing with a lot of new receivers this year, so I don't buy the "he is having to deal with new receivers" excuse that I have seen throw out.
Grumpy Man Update:
KevShmev is #1 in the league for PITA (Pain In The Ass) Rating
KevShmev is odds on favorite for the Na Na Nananana Award
KevShmev wishes Tom Brady played for the Broncos
I will take any competent QB at this point. :lol :lol
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What part of him is it that you think is failing? I'm not trying to argue with you, he's certainly not as good as he was, but I'm not seeing any age specific problems.
It is never just one little thing. Heck, Peyton's true decline started in 2014 (IIRC) when he had a quad injury that was just bothersome enough to affect his play, and we've heard about Brady having issues this year with both a knee and an elbow. Now, you could chalk that up to normal dings and aches over a 16-week season, which most players get, but as you get older, those injuries take longer to heal and pop up more often, and in the case of Brady's knee or elbow, they could be just annoying enough to affect his throws, which might explain why his accuracy has been off at times this season. I have seen him miss throws that he used to make in his sleep. And plenty of other QB's are dealing with a lot of new receivers this year, so I don't buy the "he is having to deal with new receivers" excuse that I have seen throw out.
His accuracy has gone off at times over the last few seasons. I haven't done a play by play analysis of his throws over the last 4 years, but I don't think him missing some here and there is anything new. Like I said the other day, he still seems to have plenty of arm strength, and I haven't seen him struggle in the pocket. He's able to step away from pressure same as he always has.
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Old Man Update:
Tom Brady is now 15th in the NFL in QBR; he is 21st passer rating.
Tom Brady is 28th in the NFL in YPA.
Tom Brady is 14th in the NFL in TD passes.
Tom Brady is 23rd in completion percentage.
Tom Brady is still tied for #1 in the NFL regarding wins as a starting QB for the 2019 season. That final clock eating drive was the work of a master, and he cannot be faulted because their team has an out of retirement, semi erratic kicker.
If Brees had to play his home games outdoors in the rain and 20MPH winds, his numbers would drop considerably. Prescott sure did set the world on fire yesterday .......... not.
Aaron Rodgers numbers once again out west last night were ????? (abysmal)
Go, Ravens!
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with all great couches
(https://stronglang.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/sofa-king-bus-ad.jpg)
:lol
Kev, I think we all know he's not the 2007 QB. It's hard to judge it because how poorly the offense has played around him especially the o-line. He's limited in mobility (he can by time in the pocket) but hasn't been able to do that this year with the o-line play.
Just not sure where he really is.
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. Like I said the other day, he still seems to have plenty of arm strength,
I don't watch him play very often, but I remember the Pats/Stillers game last year, and he didn't seem to look the same to me. Specifically, the play that he got picked off by Joe Haden. It looked like a wounded duck.
Even if he's on the decline, there's probably at least 20-25 other teams in the league that would take him without a thought, though.
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Booger McFarland just SAVAGED Jared Goff. I'm paraphrasing (but I'm close): "That tells you all you need to know about the confidence this coaching staff has in their QB [Goff]. Third and 15 in a must win game, and they hand off to Todd Gurley."
I'll note that he cited Belichick "exposing" him in the Super Bowl as the start of the Goff slump.
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His accuracy has gone off at times over the last few seasons. I haven't done a play by play analysis of his throws over the last 4 years, but I don't think him missing some here and there is anything new. Like I said the other day, he still seems to have plenty of arm strength, and I haven't seen him struggle in the pocket. He's able to step away from pressure same as he always has.
Again though, it's just a lot of little things. There is no one thing you can point to and say, "that's it."
Tom Brady is still tied for #1 in the NFL regarding wins as a starting QB for the 2019 season.
Wins and losses are ultimately a team stat, and I showed earlier that his numbers across the board are down. Not just a little down, but way down.
Also, they are 10-1 largely because their defense is allowing 11 points per game, and that is despite giving up 37 to Baltimore.
Kev, I think we all know he's not the 2007 QB. It's hard to judge it because how poorly the offense has played around him especially the o-line. He's limited in mobility (he can by time in the pocket) but hasn't been able to do that this year with the o-line play.
Just not sure where he really is.
With all due respect, no other quarterback ever gets that "out," so why does Brady? Rivers get his ass kicked in a playoff game when his o-line plays atrocious...it's all Rivers' fault. Peyton Manning loses to the Steelers in the '05 divisional round in a game where his o-line was terrible...it's all Manning's fault. Brady doesn't play well because the offensive line isn't great...it's all the offensive line's fault. Seems to be the way it goes.
Booger McFarland just SAVAGED Jared Goff. I'm paraphrasing (but I'm close): "That tells you all you need to know about the confidence this coaching staff has in their QB [Goff]. Third and 15 in a must win game, and they hand off to Todd Gurley."
I'll note that he cited Belichick "exposing" him in the Super Bowl as the start of the Goff slump.
Belichick definitely clowned Goff in the Super Bowl, but Goff's slump began in December last year. Following the KC game, the one in which many think Gurley got hurt and has never been the same since, he has struggled since. Counting the playoffs, he finished with 7 touchdowns and 8 interceptions in the last eight games last season. And that "slump" has carried over into the season. And I put slump in quotes because I don't think it is a slump; I think Goff simply isn't that good.
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Kev, settle down. I'm talking I can't judge the % of his decline because of the other offensive issues. Jesus. Settle down man. :lol
Btw, the Ravens are rooooolllling.
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Joe Tessitore just proposed marriage to Lamar Jackson. I think. I'm not sure. Booger was drooling into the mic and it was hard to hear. :)
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With all due respect, no other quarterback ever gets that "out," so why does Brady? Rivers get his ass kicked in a playoff game when his o-line plays atrocious...it's all Rivers' fault. Peyton Manning loses to the Steelers in the '05 divisional round in a game where his o-line was terrible...it's all Manning's fault. Brady doesn't play well because the offensive line isn't great...it's all the offensive line's fault. Seems to be the way it goes.
Well, you answered your own question. Rivers, lost. Manning, lost. Brady... found a way to put 13 points on the board, which, in that context, was enough to get the job done.
But I'm with King on this; I don't know the degree to which he's fallen off. Probably more than 0%, less than 100%.
Belichick definitely clowned Goff in the Super Bowl, but Goff's slump began in December last year. Following the KC game, the one in which many think Gurley got hurt and has never been the same since, he has struggled since. Counting the playoffs, he finished with 7 touchdowns and 8 interceptions in the last eight games last season. And that "slump" has carried over into the season. And I put slump in quotes because I don't think it is a slump; I think Goff simply isn't that good.
I agree; he looks like a deer in headlights here; Booger has been continuing the assault for most of the half.
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These announcers are so bad.
Goff is not good, but listening to Booger you'd think he was Trent Dilfer-bad.
And I think Tessitore wants to drop to his knees and service Lamar Jackson at half time. Yeah, he is playing great right now, but he's out of his mind if he thinks the MVP race now is all about Jackson.
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My wife wants to propose to Lamar!!! :D
Uhm.....can this kid play or what? Once again, you're getting to see what we've seen on a weekly basis since the Cleveland game from both sides of the team.
btw....they haven't missed a beat, but their starting center Skura was carted off when it was 14-3. No Raven offensive lineman had missed a play all season due to injury up to that point.
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This Ravens team reminds me of the 2015 Panthers. A team with an unconventional QB who can run and throw it got on a roll around mid-season and just started beating up on everyone.
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He CAN play, and I have to say, I'm a fan. He's saying and doing all the right things (read: the exact opposite of Cam Newton). And he has a perfect coach for him (I'm a big Harbaugh fan too).
BUT: it's just not going to be this easy for the next ten seasons. The list of players that lit it up for a season then came back to earth is as long as my left leg. Longer, even.
EDIT: Just saw Kev's post; let's hope they don't remind of the 2016, 2017, or 2018 Panthers.
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Okay, but no one is saying it will be easy for the next 10 years, Stadler. You seem to always push back on anyone giving praise to the young guys who haven't paid their dues yet, but there is something to be said for enjoying something in the moment instead of waiting 8 years and then seeing a player working out long term and thinking, "Damn, I wish I could go back in time and retroactively enjoy their early years." :P
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Kev,
He CAN play, and I have to say, I'm a fan.
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Kev,
He CAN play, and I have to say, I'm a fan.
I was gonna say. :lol
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I get what Kev says. But if he can adapt over time and pass more run less he will thrive.
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I get what Kev says.
Nobody gets what Kev says..
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I expected the Ravens to win, but I didn't expect the absolute ass kicking the Rams are getting right now. :icwomangs:
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I get what Kev says.
Nobody gets what Kev says..
Kev admits this once in a while but his fandom slips out once in a while.
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Holy shit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/c1Q8wqBp/20191125-223521.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xq1CV475)
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(https://media.makeameme.org/created/throw-in-the-5c7012.jpg)
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My God. They are rolling against great competition.
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The Ravens will be the toughest team the Niners play all year.... I don't think the Niners can beat them. It will be a good game though. :corn
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The Ravens will be the toughest team the Niners play all year.... I don't think the Niners can beat them. It will be a good game though. :corn
It'll be an earned win for either team, that's for sure.
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Sure is a great year to be a fan of this team. This is still a rebuild type of year so I'm prepared for the downturn if it happens but I'm enjoying the steam roller while it's happening.
I like John Harbaugh when he lets the coaches and the front office run the show like he is doing lately. He does a great job with morale and discipline and that is not an easy task in the NFL. It helps us stay a class- act style of ball , we show up and play hard win or lose.
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Okay, but no one is saying it will be easy for the next 10 years, Stadler. You seem to always push back on anyone giving praise to the young guys who haven't paid their dues yet, but there is something to be said for enjoying something in the moment instead of waiting 8 years and then seeing a player working out long term and thinking, "Damn, I wish I could go back in time and retroactively enjoy their early years." :P
Yeah, I do push back and make no apologies for it. It's not at all that I don't enjoy something in the moment; I've just said "I'm a fan". I'm watching this and it's fun. He's great. That.. I think it was the third TD, might be the fourth, was a throw that maybe five guys in the league could make. I'm not responding to that, I'm responding to the Joe Tessitore's of the world that are doing exactly what you're saying we SHOULDN'T, except in the opposite way; Joe T isn't "enjoying the moment", he's projecting out to the end of the season (he already called him the MVP) and beyond (they played a clip of Harbaugh talking about "10 years from now" kids wearing number 8 jerseys for Jackson). Tone it down, let the kid play, and let's see how he responds to the best minds in the game who are now trying to stop him when it counts. (And I say that with no negativity; I hope he does well, at least against any team not from New England or New Orleans).
(Oh, and I don't think I've ever said "Damn, I wish I could go back in time and retroactively enjoy their early years". Except for myself, that is. There was that one time in college...)
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And I think Tessitore wants to drop to his knees and service Lamar Jackson at half time. Yeah, he is playing great right now, but he's out of his mind if he thinks the MVP race now is all about Jackson.
I think the MVP race has become all about Jackson now. It's his to lose. The whole country is loving this guy and he can't currently be stopped. As long as he isn't stopped until the playoffs, he's got it in the bag. Now winning a championship is a whole different story. It's going to be interesting to watch him perform when it matters.
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The Ravens are awesome this year, their defense is also killing it.. Now if they could just lose the Seven Nation Army song, I would enjoy their home games a lot more. :facepalm:
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Yeah, I do push back and make no apologies for it. It's not at all that I don't enjoy something in the moment; I've just said "I'm a fan". I'm watching this and it's fun. He's great. That.. I think it was the third TD, might be the fourth, was a throw that maybe five guys in the league could make. I'm not responding to that, I'm responding to the Joe Tessitore's of the world that are doing exactly what you're saying we SHOULDN'T, except in the opposite way; Joe T isn't "enjoying the moment", he's projecting out to the end of the season (he already called him the MVP) and beyond (they played a clip of Harbaugh talking about "10 years from now" kids wearing number 8 jerseys for Jackson). Tone it down, let the kid play, and let's see how he responds to the best minds in the game who are now trying to stop him when it counts. (And I say that with no negativity; I hope he does well, at least against any team not from New England or New Orleans).
(Oh, and I don't think I've ever said "Damn, I wish I could go back in time and retroactively enjoy their early years". Except for myself, that is. There was that one time in college...)
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2Ffc%2Ffc7be4ee1b8619de11b6e26b43b239170a7bacee7343a0634ec1451c7ceac1d2.jpg&hash=33ddaf046c3b216b0f97857f2f2e5a90c98cf215)
:P
And I think Tessitore wants to drop to his knees and service Lamar Jackson at half time. Yeah, he is playing great right now, but he's out of his mind if he thinks the MVP race now is all about Jackson.
I think the MVP race has become all about Jackson now. It's his to lose. The whole country is loving this guy and he can't currently be stopped. As long as he isn't stopped until the playoffs, he's got it in the bag. Now winning a championship is a whole different story. It's going to be interesting to watch him perform when it matters.
The playoffs won't matter as far as who wins the MVP, but while I think Wilson is still very much neck and neck to win it, I do think Jackson is now the favorite. He and the Ravens are a tidal wave right now that no one can stop.
Their last five games:
Won by 14 at 9-2 Seattle
Won by 17 vs 10-1 New England
Won by 36 vs 0-11 Cincinnati
Won by 34 vs 7-4 Houston
Won by 39 vs 6-5 LA Rams
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I get what Kev says. But if he can adapt over time and pass more run less he will thrive.
To be fair, I think people underestimate him some as a pocket passer. Read an article two weeks ago pointing out that he had (to that point) a QB rating of 96 from inside the pocket, and had fewer passing attempts from outside the pocket than Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Gardner Minshew, Carson Wentz, Josh Allen, Derek Carr, Baker Mayfield, Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford.
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If he can repeat that performance the next couple of weeks, he will have earned it. If not, then I think people need to slow their roll and look more at Wilson as the MVP. Yes, he's impressive. But let's keep in mind that 14 of his touchdowns came against bad defenses. And against probably the best defense the Ravens have faced, the Pats, Jackson was 17/23 for 163 yards and 1 touchdown. We can't anoint this kid MVP for thrashing a Rams team that barely bothered to show up.
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I get what Kev says. But if he can adapt over time and pass more run less he will thrive.
To be fair, I think people underestimate him some as a pocket passer. Read an article two weeks ago pointing out that he had (to that point) a QB rating of 96 from inside the pocket, and had fewer passing attempts from outside the pocket than Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Gardner Minshew, Carson Wentz, Josh Allen, Derek Carr, Baker Mayfield, Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford.
No. He's definitely improved but to say they can run this option for 5 plus years is not conducive for his health. Not in the NFL.
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If he can repeat that performance the next couple of weeks, he will have earned it. If not, then I think people need to slow their roll and look more at Wilson as the MVP. Yes, he's impressive. But let's keep in mind that 14 of his touchdowns came against bad defenses. And against probably the best defense the Ravens have faced, the Pats, Jackson was 17/23 for 163 yards and 1 touchdown. We can't anoint this kid MVP for thrashing a Rams team that barely bothered to show up.
This is not a knock on Jackson, because this has been happening now for a while, but there's something wrong in LA. McVay doesn't look in control, Goff looks like he's just did a keg stand before the kickoff, and we know Gurley has not been the same since the first half of last season. Their defense can still play well (though they didn't show it last night) but Wade has to find an alternative if Donald gets taken out of the game like he did last night.
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If he can repeat that performance the next couple of weeks, he will have earned it. If not, then I think people need to slow their roll and look more at Wilson as the MVP. Yes, he's impressive. But let's keep in mind that 14 of his touchdowns came against bad defenses. And against probably the best defense the Ravens have faced, the Pats, Jackson was 17/23 for 163 yards and 1 touchdown. We can't anoint this kid MVP for thrashing a Rams team that barely bothered to show up.
This is not a knock on Jackson, because this has been happening now for a while, but there's something wrong in LA. McVay doesn't look in control, Goff looks like he's just did a keg stand before the kickoff, and we know Gurley has not been the same since the first half of last season. Their defense can still play well (though they didn't show it last night) but Wade has to find an alternative if Donald gets taken out of the game like he did last night.
Exactly.
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If he can repeat that performance the next couple of weeks, he will have earned it. If not, then I think people need to slow their roll and look more at Wilson as the MVP. Yes, he's impressive. But let's keep in mind that 14 of his touchdowns came against bad defenses. And against probably the best defense the Ravens have faced, the Pats, Jackson was 17/23 for 163 yards and 1 touchdown. We can't anoint this kid MVP for thrashing a Rams team that barely bothered to show up.
He also had 61 rushing yards and 2 rushing touchdowns in that game. Given what a dual threat he is, his rushing numbers are always part of the equation when talking about how good a game and/or season he had. Heck, he is 9th in the entire NFL in rushing, which is pretty absurd when you think about it.
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If he can repeat that performance the next couple of weeks, he will have earned it. If not, then I think people need to slow their roll and look more at Wilson as the MVP. Yes, he's impressive. But let's keep in mind that 14 of his touchdowns came against bad defenses. And against probably the best defense the Ravens have faced, the Pats, Jackson was 17/23 for 163 yards and 1 touchdown. We can't anoint this kid MVP for thrashing a Rams team that barely bothered to show up.
Sure, if he can't keep it up he will lose it and Russell Wilson is right behind him... but the Ravens also beat the Seahawks. Lamar has a better QBR than Wilson (although their stats aren't that different) but Lamar has insane rushing stats to add. It's no knock on Wilson, they were very much close a few weeks ago with Wilson a slight edge but this current dominating run by the Ravens lead by Lamar has him surging right now. It has little to do with just beating the Rams and unimpressive stats don't matter when you still beat the Pats. (even though he had a solid QBR that game (better than the GOAT) and also two rushing touchdown :lol conveniently left out)
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I always approach MVP from the standpoint of who is most important to their team. If you replace Wilson or Jackson with, say, Trevor Siemian would their teams fall apart? I think Wilson is carrying his team, while Jackson is merely making his team much better.
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https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-admits-controversial-penalties-on-cowboys-in-their-loss-to-patriots-should-not-have-been-called/
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So like every week?
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Pretty much, yeah. That could be a new drinking game: take a shot every time an NFL official blows a call. You'll be blackout drunk by halftime of more than a few games. :lol :lol
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How many people would be tanked by halftime? :lol
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How often do they call tripping in the NFL? I wasn't even watching the game, but I'm sure the refs didn't huddle up together to determine whether or not the foul actually occurred. Even though another game was decided by a terrible call, at least they admitted that they were wrong ::)
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To put into perspective how impressive Jackson's performance was against the Patriots, let's look at how many fantasy points each QB who has faced the Patriots this season has gotten against them (which is a good way to judge it since fantasy points are based merely on numbers).
Ben Roethlisberger 13.5
Josh Rosen & Ryan Fitzpatrick combined for 5.9
Luke Falk 3.9
Josh Allen 13.25 (season average is 22.88)
Colt McCoy 6.5
Daniel Jones 9.85 (season average as a starter is 21.76)
Sam Darnold -.70 (season average as a starter is 19.63)
Baker Mayfield 14.5 (season average is 18.21)
Lamar Jackson 30.25 (season average is 30.54)
Carson Wentz 15.4 (season average is 19.12)
Dak Prescott 10.0 (season average is 25.76)
So, while the Patriots have definitely had an easy schedule and faced some absolute trash QB's, every single one of them had a poor game against them...except Lamar Jackson, who was just a hair below his season average, and his season average is more than 4 1/2 points above the QB with the 2nd highest average (Russell Wilson).
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he is a puzzle that all coaches are having trouble figuring out. What's put them in the drivers seat is their defense has figured it out. They are so well balanced that they are routing all.
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I wonder how much work Belichick is already doing on the rematch with the Ravens.
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Working in their favor, they also have a really easy schedule after the upcoming consecutive games against the '9ers and Bills. We'll see how they do against those two defenses. If they can get past both of those games, they will easily cruise to the #1 seed (or #2 at least, if NE doesn't drop a game). But the next 2 weeks should be VERY telling for the top seeds in both the AFC and NFC. :corn
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I wonder how much work Belichick is already doing on the rematch with the Ravens.
None. We're putting in the work on the match with Houston. :) :)
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Any Given Sunday aside, it feels like if the Ravens beat the 49ers this week, they will win out, which means the Patriots have to be thinking that they need to also win out to hang out to the 1 seed. Now that the Patriots would ever look ahead...it's not like Mike Tomlin is their coach. :lol
I don't think the addition of Mark Ingram in Baltimore can be overlooked. He and Gus Edwards is a far better 1-2 tandem than Edwards and Alex Collins were last year. It took him a few years to figure it out, but Ingram evolved into a really good NFL RB his last few years in NO, and the Ravens are reaping the benefits this year.
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Big fan of Ingram.
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he is a puzzle that all coaches are having trouble figuring out. What's put them in the drivers seat is their defense has figured it out. They are so well balanced that they are routing all.
I think their D is feasting on offenses forced to try and keep up with their offense. SF is actually in a pretty good place to go against BAL. If their D can slow down Jackson just enough to let their more balanced offense do its own thing, and I think they can, they'll be fine. I think this applies to NE, as well, assuming NE bothers showing up to play next time out.
Let's also keep in mind that the Browns beat the living hell out of them to the tune of 342 yds passing and nearly 200 and 4 TDs on the ground, while picking off Jackson twice and sacking him 4 times.
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The Ravens didn't have Jimmie Smith available, and Cutler was still a Ram at the time. Chuckie Clark is now doing the signal calling, and not 'Peanut'. DB Tony Jefferson, who also did a game as signal caller, is out for the season. There have also been three rotating starters added to the DL/LB corps. It is a totally different defensive unit, and the nation would have known that had the ESPN announcers on MNF not had their lips wrapped around Lamar the entire second half :tdwn
It's an entirely new defense since the confusion that reigned during their games against the Cards and buffugly brown and orange on Lake Erie. Thomas, Cutler, and Humphrey are all Pro Bowl starters. Their shutdown coverage is allowing a weak pass rush the time to get all the sacks they've garnered.
With all the injuries to the SF starters, the 49er offense is going to struggle big time this weekend. Not a knock, just an observation. And, unless Baltimore turns it over 3+ times, this one will be over halfway through the 4th quarter.
..added caveat...I lived through the Mark Fidrych summer of '76 after I graduated high school. Attended the Monday Night game against the Yankees, and a Fourth of July Eve against the O's with Reggie Jackson. The mania there is similar to what Charm City is seeing now. I have my fingers crossed that it is not as short lived as decades ago for The Bird. As is, I am enjoying the thrill for what it is.
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Any Given Sunday aside, it feels like if the Ravens beat the 49ers this week, they will win out, which means the Patriots have to be thinking that they need to also win out to hang out to the 1 seed. Now that the Patriots would ever look ahead...it's not like Mike Tomlin is their coach. :lol
The only shot that NE has at beating the Ravens in the CG is playing it in Foxboro. The Ravens will score, and in most years, that's usually not a problem. The Pat's offence will ultimately let them down.
The Pats have no shot of winning in Baltimore.
So yes, that Pats have to win out.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/is-tom-brady-a-detriment-to-patriots-chances-of-repeating-as-super-bowl-champs/ar-BBXr0wR?li=BBnba9I
Kev's real name is...Vincent?
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So I'm reading that article by Kev ( :tup) and honestly, I'm less convinced than when I started.
So since I'm doing nothing, enjoying my coffee and looking at snow totals for Sunday, I have time to look closer at that table that supposedly shows the decline of the GOAT.
He's got 2,942 yards, more than all the QBs on that list except for the guy named "Saints Quarterback". He's got 15 TDs, which is last, but if you dig in, you see that the Pats have more rushing touchdowns than the Chiefs, the Seahawks, the Saints (by a LOT) and are tied with the Pack. He's got 5 INTs, but that's the same amount as The Anointed One TM, less than Mr. Quarterback in New Orleans, and HALF of The Other Anointed One TM.
So that leaves the vaunted "Quarterback Rating", which has somehow become the gold standard for judging quarterbacks. I leave the entire article for you, but as this source (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/342748-things-i-learned-from-passer-rating-and-completion-percentage) says, this is a stat that has Tony Romo as the fourth greatest QB of all time, ahead of Manning (Peyton) and Brady. It also puts Chad Pennington, Dante Culpepper, Carson Palmer, Jeff Garcia, and Matt Schaub ahead of Brett Favre.
Anyone want to guess what the most influential stat is on the "Quarterback Rating"? Hint: it's in the table, and Brady's is low. Completion percentage. Right now, that table puts him at 62.2 (it was 64.8 through nine games).
Let's look at his Super Bowl winning seasons (because that's what matters, winning), and his Completion Percentage in the regular season, playoffs, and SB:
2001. 63.9 61.9 59.3
2003. 60.2 59.5 66.7
2004. 60.8 67.9 69.7
2014. 64.1 68.9 74.0
2016 67.4 65.5 69.4
2018 65.8 68.0 60.0
AVE: 63.7 65.3 66.5
(In the loss years:
2007 68.9 70.6 60.4
2011 65.6 67.6 65.9
2017 66.3 64.0 58.3
AVE. 66.9 67.4 61.5
We KNOW that Brady has had trouble with his O-line. We KNOW - well, we SHOULD know - that Brady is prone to dumping the ball rather than taking a sack, even to the point of taking an "Intentional Grounding" penalty for doing so. Guess who leads the league in "IG" penalties, with TWICE as many as the next, second place team? I'll give you a minute (https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/intentional-grounding?year=2019&view=team).
And at the end of the day, this is all moot anyway. I know there are some here that do not like the emphasis that I put on Super Bowl wins, and that's fair, but the ONLY man that counts in this discussion - Bill Belichick - seems to agree with me, and at the end of the day, I highly doubt he gives a crap about "completion percentage", except as to how it influences his chance of winning the Lombardi Trophy, and I think I've shown that it doesn't seem to. I think over the 20 seasons he's been in New England that he's proven that he is more than happy winning with a "Game Manager" if that's what it takes.
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The QBR stat is certainly goofy as hell. In the 49ers beatdown of the Packers last week, Jimmy G threw for 253 yards, 2 touchdowns, 0 INT's, averaged 12.65 YPA, and completed 70% of his passes...and had a QBR of 18.2. That makes no sense whatsoever, so I may have to re-think ever using that stat as a measure of anything. Passer rating is just as bad.
I definitely think far too emphasis is put on completion percentage in general these days. With the short passing game being the norm now, it is pretty easy to complete 60% of your passes (32 quarterbacks are above 60% this season). Meanwhile, John Elway had a lifetime completion percentage of 56.9% and Dan Marino was at 59.4%. Heck, Terry Bradshaw was at 51.9% and Johnny Unitas was at 54.6%.
All that said, Brady led the league in pass attempts (before being passed by both Prescott and Ryan, both of whom played yesterday), so of course he is going to have a lot of yards. Not surprised he doesn't have a lot of picks as Brady has almost always been fantastic at not turning the ball over. On the flip side, he has never played with a historically bad defense (like Rodgers and Brees both have this decade) to where he had to take unnecessary risks in order to try and win a game.
Bottom line: no one is saying Brady is a bum now, but he is no longer played at the GOAT-level. Sure, he can still muster up a great game here and there, and I am sure if he has one here soon, everyone will chime in as if that one game overrides the many average games he has had this year, and if he gets the ball back with two minutes left and needing a score to win or tie, I will still expect him to make the plays he needs to to get it done, but he just isn't consistently great anymore. And that is okay. That guy is 42. He already held off Father Time longer than any other QB ever had. He just can't any longer.
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I definitely think far too emphasis is put on completion percentage in general these days. With the short passing game being the norm now, it is pretty easy to complete 60% of your passes (32 quarterbacks are above 60% this season). Meanwhile, John Elway had a lifetime completion percentage of 56.9% and Dan Marino was at 59.4%. Heck, Terry Bradshaw was at 51.9% and Johnny Unitas was at 54.6%.
I used to play a role playing football game back in the 70s and 80s (Strat-O-Matic if anyone cares or played....people used to have local leagues and stuff. It was a blast). But I remember that it was a pretty big deal when Ken Anderson of the Bengals became one of the first starting QBs to pass the 60% mark for an entire season. And it was because of that short game they played. Too bad that phenomenal team ran up against the up and coming Joe Montana Niners in their first SB.
EDIT - I looked it up and I have some modifications now. He had achieved 60% a few times in his career (still rare at that time) but it was the year after the SB appearance that I was thinking of. That's when he became the first QB to pass the 70% mark for a season. That was a record that stood until Drew Brees broke it in 2009.
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Sunday NFL ticket is so clutch today, instead of watching my crappy Giants or the Jets since they are both playing the same time for the local market in NJ, I can watch this good 49ers and Ravens game. :yarr I got no dog in this fight, just enjoying two of the best teams going at it and living up to the hype
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Pins and needles here in the Bay...
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Hell of a battle and clutch kick from the Ravens.
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Justin Tucker !!!
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Game winning drive by Lamar, really good game.
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Well shit.
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So great knocking that trash organization out of the playoff hunt. Nothing like beating first stringers with third and fourth stringers.
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I already knew it, but that is one hell of a defense the 49ers have. The strip fumble recovery when it looked like it might become 24-14 sure turned the game into one of those 'slobber knockers'. And their running attack made the Ravens look quite bad most of the day.
That said, I'm quite pleased with the final score. It wasn't a thing of beauty like LA last week, but it was never going to be.
A rematch sure would be interesting.....
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I wish I could have watched that game.
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These Raiders are SOOOOOOO frustrating. I like them, but I'm thinking that Carr is not the answer here. Plus, they are KILLING themselves with penalties. They could have won this game.
Also, side note, I despise Jim Nance. My least favorite announcer ever. We talked about the league and cognoscenti having their lips wrapped around Lamar Jackson, to hear Nance talk, the Chiefs have been in nine Super Bowls since 2000 and won six of them.
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cognoscenti?
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Yep. Those in the know. :)
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In 51 years of my life, I have literally never heard that word before. :lol
TAC: Not in the know.
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The Broncos won thanks to a dubious-at-best PI call that gave them a shot at a FG, which McManus hit. NFL officiating strikes again.
Ravens/49ers was fun to watch. That was old school football, in the elements with a lot of running and hard hits. :tup :tup
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Pats offense.
Ouch.
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Brady either tries to force the ball to Edleman in double coverage or he throws it to nobody.
Ugly drop by Sanu on 4th down.
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UGLY!
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You know something is wrong when you are losing by 18 to a team coached by Bill O'Brien.
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I think Bill O'Brien gets a bad wrap.
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Just got out of my meeting and checked in on the Pats score...did I time warp back 25 years or something?
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I like the delay of game on the two point conversion. Not when you're down to Kai Forbath as your fourth kicker, though.
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King, I hear there are going to be open workouts for wide receiver this week. What say you, me and TAC swing by, give it a try. We can catch some beers and nachos after.
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Gonna be tough cracking that starting lineup with a former Super Bowl MVP, a former 1st round pick, and a proven NFL number 2 in the way. I guess the GOAT could always use a 4th WR to try and mask his decline.
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Speaking of former 1st round draft picks, where was N'Keal Harry? If your receivers can't get open you at least need the guy who can fight for the ball. Did he even suit up?
Brady actually looked pretty competent in the second half. He was butt ugly in the first, though.
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Gonna be tough cracking that starting lineup with a former Super Bowl MVP, a former 1st round pick, and a proven NFL number 2 in the way. I guess the GOAT could always use a 4th WR to try and mask his decline.
Needs a #1 to do that.
Back in the day he would make lesser receivers look like all starts, today he doesn't. Not not that he doesn't have great skills anymore, they need to build a better team around him just like the Broncos did with Elway at the end of his career. They are wasting this defense by not getting Brady good players. can't keep the D on the field all the time. They will gas out.
Stadler, Nachos and I'm in. LOL
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The Broncos won thanks to a dubious-at-best PI call that gave them a shot at a FG, which McManus hit. NFL officiating strikes again.
Ravens/49ers was fun to watch. That was old school football, in the elements with a lot of running and hard hits. :tup :tup
Rivers and the Chargers always find a way to lose those games, but Denver deserved to win given how Lock played in his first start.
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The Broncos won thanks to a dubious-at-best PI call that gave them a shot at a FG, which McManus hit. NFL officiating strikes again.
Ravens/49ers was fun to watch. That was old school football, in the elements with a lot of running and hard hits. :tup :tup
Rivers and the Chargers always find a way to lose those games, but Denver deserved to win given how Lock played in his first start.
Looked like a decent PI call on the play, but what bothers me is the announcers called it. Saying its worth a shot FOR a PI call. That's what is bothersome about the NFL right now for me. It's not about making a play, but about making the refs make a judgment call.
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Back in the day he would make lesser receivers look like all starts, today he doesn't. Not not that he doesn't have great skills anymore, they need to build a better team around him just like the Broncos did with Elway at the end of his career. They are wasting this defense by not getting Brady good players. can't keep the D on the field all the time. They will gas out.
What Belichick has done with that defense this year is amazing, but they have had a very easy schedule. By my watch, they have only faced three offenses I would call really good or great. Two (Baltimore, Houston) made the defense look very average, and the third (Dallas) was slowed down due to the weather. I am not including Philly in there since their WR's in that game two weeks ago were so bad that Carson Wentz would have killed for Edelman, Sanu and Dorsett.
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Back in the day he would make lesser receivers look like all starts, today he doesn't. Not not that he doesn't have great skills anymore, they need to build a better team around him just like the Broncos did with Elway at the end of his career. They are wasting this defense by not getting Brady good players. can't keep the D on the field all the time. They will gas out.
What Belichick has done with that defense this year is amazing, but they have had a very easy schedule. By my watch, they have only faced three offenses I would call really good or great. Two (Baltimore, Houston) made the defense look very average, and the third (Dallas) was slowed down due to the weather. I am not including Philly in there since their WR's in that game two weeks ago were so bad that Carson Wentz would have killed for Edelman, Sanu and Dorsett.
Obviously the level of competition boosted the D's numbers for sure. Half of the D was sick all last week. I heard they took two planes down there.
There's a very good possibility they get lit up again against KC next week. But I think they'll be better than last night.
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I agree but when you lean on one side of the ball all season it's inevitable thst that one side carrying the load break down.
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Back in the day he would make lesser receivers look like all starts, today he doesn't. Not not that he doesn't have great skills anymore, they need to build a better team around him just like the Broncos did with Elway at the end of his career. They are wasting this defense by not getting Brady good players. can't keep the D on the field all the time. They will gas out.
What Belichick has done with that defense this year is amazing, but they have had a very easy schedule. By my watch, they have only faced three offenses I would call really good or great. Two (Baltimore, Houston) made the defense look very average, and the third (Dallas) was slowed down due to the weather. I am not including Philly in there since their WR's in that game two weeks ago were so bad that Carson Wentz would have killed for Edelman, Sanu and Dorsett.
Obviously the level of competition boosted the D's numbers for sure. Half of the D was sick all last week. I heard they took two planes down there.
There's a very good possibility they get lit up again against KC next week. But I think they'll be better than last night.
Mahomes has not looked as great this year, but of course he had to come back down to earth some. I expect NE to win.
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Seahawks are now #1 in the NFC west at 10-2 after a great Monday night showdown with the Vikings. Seahawks pretty much beat them with the run game, which the Vikings have the #1 defense in the league against the run. Vikings didn't go down easily though with their 4th qtr comeback, but the Hawks hung on to win it 37-30. A good clean game with low penalties. 🏈
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Two weeks in a row that I tuned in for all/most of the game (with the volume almost muted). Seahawks win these types of games the majority of the time, and now have the NFC West division lead.
I said it weeks ago, and now it's staring them right in the face: a shame they had a rookie kicker tie it up in regulation, then butcher the winning kick, but the 49ers should have settled for the tie against Seattle. They'd still be the #1 seed with a one game divisional lead.
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SF will likely have to win at Seattle Week 17 to win the division. All Seattle has to do is stay tied or within a game of SF going into that game and then win at home to win the division.
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SF will likely have to win at Seattle Week 17 to win the division. All Seattle has to do is stay tied or within a game of SF going into that game and then win at home to win the division.
That's cool. Basically makes that game a playoff game in effect.
Who do you all think is a better road team? I thought SF showed more in defeat this Sunday than they did in a few of their wins. They were not intimidated, and were a missed FG and a dumb ass 4th & 1 play away from almost taking that game.
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I think SF is the better team overall, but Wilson is playing at an MVP level, and that is why Seattle is sitting at 10-2. But once the weather gets cold and ugly in the playoffs, defense and the running game matter, and SF has both, so I think they'd be more likely than Seattle to get in as the 5 seed and win a road playoff game or two. Granted, some of those road games could be in Dallas and New Orleans, where the weather wouldn't be factor like it would in road games at Seattle or GB, but it's still something to consider.
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I'm going to take some crap here for this, but be gentle, because this is not a knock on either Garropolo (who I like and I still maintain is going to play in New England again) and Wilson (who I don't really "like" but can't deny how good he is; he might be the best QB in the league right now - yes, over Jackson) but the difference isn't Jimmy G or Russell. It's Kittle, it's Breida, it's Lockett, it's Carson...
Carson burned off about four runs last night at the exact moment they needed it. I get it, that's set up over the course of the game, but these are good TEAMS, not just a group of a couple good players (you could say the same about the Ravens) and for the first time in my recent, drink-addled memory, you CAN'T say that about New England.
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Ron Rivera is out in Carolina.
Not surprised, but assuming he gets a head coaching job somewhere else next year, another team will be getting a good coach.
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Ron Rivera is out in Carolina.
Not surprised, but assuming he gets a head coaching job somewhere else next year, another team will be getting a good coach.
That's fucked. Must be an issue. He loses his QB, still goes 5-7, and he's fired.
I liked him.
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Even though the local sports talk radio guys are Patriots fans, they were pointing out the stark contrast in leadership styles between Brady and Russell Wilson. You never see Wilson sulking and pouting on the bench no matter how bad the game is going, and is always positive while encouraging teammates.
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Ron Rivera is out in Carolina.
Not surprised, but assuming he gets a head coaching job somewhere else next year, another team will be getting a good coach.
That's fucked. Must be an issue. He loses his QB, still goes 5-7, and he's fired.
I liked him.
Jason Garrett hearing footsteps.
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Even though the local sports talk radio guys are Patriots fans, they were pointing out the stark contrast in leadership styles between Brady and Russell Wilson. You never see Wilson sulking and pouting on the bench no matter how bad the game is going, and is always positive while encouraging teammates.
That works great for those players that are motivated by positive, encouraging comments. :)
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Ron Rivera is out in Carolina.
Not surprised, but assuming he gets a head coaching job somewhere else next year, another team will be getting a good coach.
Kicking the tires on Perry Fewell? That's really the only reason I see to shitcan him right now.
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Ron Rivera is out in Carolina.
Not surprised, but assuming he gets a head coaching job somewhere else next year, another team will be getting a good coach.
That's fucked. Must be an issue. He loses his QB, still goes 5-7, and he's fired.
I liked him.
It's a shame. I've always liked him as well, but I figured this would be it for him.
I did, however, expect him to make it to the end of the season. Not sure I see the advantage to canning him right now.
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Ron Rivera is out in Carolina.
Not surprised, but assuming he gets a head coaching job somewhere else next year, another team will be getting a good coach.
That's fucked. Must be an issue. He loses his QB, still goes 5-7, and he's fired.
I liked him.
Jason Garrett hearing footsteps.
I'll take Ron Rivera in Cleveland.
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Ron Rivera is out in Carolina.
Not surprised, but assuming he gets a head coaching job somewhere else next year, another team will be getting a good coach.
That's fucked. Must be an issue. He loses his QB, still goes 5-7, and he's fired.
I liked him.
Jason Garrett hearing footsteps.
Jimmy has been laughing his Johnson off for 25 years. :rollin
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Even though the local sports talk radio guys are Patriots fans, they were pointing out the stark contrast in leadership styles between Brady and Russell Wilson. You never see Wilson sulking and pouting on the bench no matter how bad the game is going, and is always positive while encouraging teammates.
That works great for those players that are motivated by positive, encouraging comments. :)
Must be the Pats pull players from a different cross-section of humans? Anyway, not sure yelling at an undrafted newbie is the best way of coaching him up. How about showing him what he did wrong on the tablet. Other QBs get criticized for perceived lack of leadership, he can too.
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That's not yelling. You need to figure out what he was saying.
His demeanor other times is the real issue.
Though being the good soldier 18 years can do that too you.
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I'm sure a part of Brady's frustration is him feeling his age. He ain't gonna come out and say it, but I would bet my life that he knows he is coming to an end and is pissed that he isn't being given the best weapons possible with whom to end to his career. I still maintain that his overall skill position players are not as bad as some are making them out to be (Derek Carr and Carson Wentz would both love to have a WR corps that good), but I think at his age he doesn't want to start over with young guys with whom he has to take time to build chemistry; he wants vets that he can mesh with right away, which is probably why he wanted Antonio Brown, warts and all.
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There's a lot of talk that he's frustrated that he's left so much money on the table and for what he's done, he can't get a long term deal and that Kraft now does not jump in on the negotiations.
Going into his last few years and they can't get him the players he wants offensively and him taking less it starting to pile up on him.
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Even though the local sports talk radio guys are Patriots fans, they were pointing out the stark contrast in leadership styles between Brady and Russell Wilson. You never see Wilson sulking and pouting on the bench no matter how bad the game is going, and is always positive while encouraging teammates.
That works great for those players that are motivated by positive, encouraging comments. :)
Must be the Pats pull players from a different cross-section of humans? Anyway, not sure yelling at an undrafted newbie is the best way of coaching him up. How about showing him what he did wrong on the tablet. Other QBs get criticized for perceived lack of leadership, he can too.
I don't at all follow the last sentence. Other QBs suck; does that mean Brady does too?
Look, Bill Parcells was a MASTER at this. He coached his 55 guys in the manner that motivated them best. I know I've told this story 50 times, and I know El Barto has alluded to it himself a couple times. Parcells yelled and screamed at Phil Simms for years, and let LT bang hookers, do blow, and whatever else it was that he did. Parcells and Belichick (as recently as a couple weeks ago) have both said "LT is the greatest defensive player in the history of the game". Simms hated Parcells for years, but in his retirement, he's often said "that's what was needed to make me the player I was. I have two Super Bowl rings because Bill Parcells willed me into a better player". Not a direct quote, paraphrasing from multiple sources, but nonetheless.
I think Brady, Belichick and McDaniels know what motivates their undrafted newbies - on whom they've undoubtedly conducted behavioral profiles - better than you and I do.
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There's a lot of talk that he's frustrated that he's left so much money on the table and for what he's done, he can't get a long term deal and that Kraft now does not jump in on the negotiations.
Going into his last few years and they can't get him the players he wants offensively and him taking less it starting to pile up on him.
He has to be realistic, though. Giving a long term deal to a 42-year QB would be an unwise business decision.
Look, Bill Parcells was a MASTER at this. He coached his 55 guys in the manner that motivated them best. I know I've told this story 50 times, and I know El Barto has alluded to it himself a couple times. Parcells yelled and screamed at Phil Simms for years, and let LT bang hookers, do blow, and whatever else it was that he did. Parcells and Belichick (as recently as a couple weeks ago) have both said "LT is the greatest defensive player in the history of the game". Simms hated Parcells for years, but in his retirement, he's often said "that's what was needed to make me the player I was. I have two Super Bowl rings because Bill Parcells willed me into a better player". Not a direct quote, paraphrasing from multiple sources, but nonetheless.
I think Brady, Belichick and McDaniels know what motivates their undrafted newbies - on whom they've undoubtedly conducted behavioral profiles - better than you and I do.
Wait, aren't you the one who ripped into Rivers for yelling at teammates during the playoff loss last year, even suggesting that the team played poorly because their QB was yelling at them, and now you are all but defending Brady doing it in a Patriots loss? That's cute. :P
And it's easy to say "Brady wins big games, so it works when he does it, while Rivers loses big games, so it doesn't work when he does it," but that would be a cop-out. Where is the consistency??
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There's a lot of talk that he's frustrated that he's left so much money on the table and for what he's done, he can't get a long term deal and that Kraft now does not jump in on the negotiations.
Going into his last few years and they can't get him the players he wants offensively and him taking less it starting to pile up on him.
He's left money on the table to keep winning super bowl rings. It's as simple as that. If he now thinks it was a poor investment that's on him.
As for surrounding him with talent, there's some truth to that, but it's only been an issue recently. For years he's played behind an O-line most quarterbacks would envy. He's always had an excellent TE, WR, and pass catching RB. As for this year, WRs don't grow on trees. Cutting Gordon loose has to bug him, it bugs me, but that's really about it. They had to jettison AB, and even giving him a shot was a highly dubious move. And the reality is that a big part of the problem is his unwillingness to trust the guys he's got. I get that their entire offense is built around the QB and WR both being lock step, but you can't expect perfect play from everybody, and you can't expect youngsters to instantly become Edelmans. N'keal Harry was playing in only his second game, and after one mistake he never gets thrown to again. He's only begrudgingly throwing to Myers, who we all suspect will be very good at some point. How are these guys going to get there if they never get opportunities?
As for his frustration, it's something of a perfect storm. He's very likely been unhappy for a long while, as evidenced by the SI piece a while back. I think he's wanted the opportunity to prove himself away from Belichick. I think he's tired of the Patriot Way and wants to enjoy his final seasons. And I think he's annoyed that he doesn't have the receiving corps he's used to. All of these are pretty reasonable. They're also TB problems and not Patriot problems.
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This is radio talk El Barto in Boston that I'm bringing up.
Brady has done less lately when it comes to OTA's spending more time with the family. So if he wants to prove himself on another team he'll have to be all in for OTA's and learning new recievers and terminology and I just don't think he wants that.
Either he takes a single year contract again that will not match the top 3 QB's or he's retire.
Me personally, after him not getting backed by Kraft & Deflategate while his mother was battling cancer has soured him on those 2 and it shows.
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Brady could show up 30 pounds overweight and wearing a "fuck this team" T-shirt and he'd still get a QB job in the NFL.
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I thought Barto's post was pretty spot-on.
Joe, radio talk brings out the dumbest fans, so not sure bringing up chatter from the likes of those people is the way to go. ;)
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Tom Brady just needs to quit whining and retire before he becomes another drama queen like Brett Favre. Like I said before, what is the guy trying to prove? Their offense isn't good enough to be a SB contender this year and most likely won't be next year either. Just be the GOAT, call it a HoF career and be done with it.
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I thought Barto's post was pretty spot-on.
Joe, radio talk brings out the dumbest fans, so not sure bringing up chatter from the likes of those people is the way to go. ;)
Not fans. Sports reporters. From the newspapers to the radio hosts. Just good fodder. You guys would go crazy hearing the theories they come up with. One station dwels on the negative all the time because you know that drivers fandoms to call or listen because we all love to listen to the ones we hate.
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Tom Brady just needs to quit whining and retire before he becomes another drama queen like Brett Favre. Like I said before, what is the guy trying to prove? Their offense isn't good enough to be a SB contender this year and most likely won't be next year either. Just be the GOAT, call it a HoF career and be done with it.
I feel the same. He should really look at Favre as an example of what not to follow. He may be able to get a contract somewhere else, but I'd bet a lot of money he won't win a championship again if he leaves the Pats and it's not because he isn't good, it's because he's simply old now and no other team in the NFL is in the position to win a superbowl with Brady over what they currently have besides the Pats IMO.
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Yeah, and I forgot to mention, why wouldn't he want to retire as a Patriot?
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The one year deal he took this year was the first time he had a clause that they cannot franchise tag him which lead to these opinions of him going somewhere else.
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The one year deal he took this year was the first time he had a clause that they cannot franchise tag him which lead to these opinions of him going somewhere else.
I think linking the "no franchise tag clause" to him possibly leaving is faulty reasoning. I seemed to remember a similar discussion about Brees a few years ago, so I had to look it up, and it was a similar thing. He had a similar clause going into the last year of his contract, and I guess there was speculation about him leaving since they couldn't make him stay due to the no-tag clause. As history has shown, he didn't leave, so the speculation was ultimately just speculation. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20656257/new-orleans-saints-use-franchise-tag-qb-drew-brees
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Look, Bill Parcells was a MASTER at this. He coached his 55 guys in the manner that motivated them best. I know I've told this story 50 times, and I know El Barto has alluded to it himself a couple times. Parcells yelled and screamed at Phil Simms for years, and let LT bang hookers, do blow, and whatever else it was that he did. Parcells and Belichick (as recently as a couple weeks ago) have both said "LT is the greatest defensive player in the history of the game". Simms hated Parcells for years, but in his retirement, he's often said "that's what was needed to make me the player I was. I have two Super Bowl rings because Bill Parcells willed me into a better player". Not a direct quote, paraphrasing from multiple sources, but nonetheless.
I think Brady, Belichick and McDaniels know what motivates their undrafted newbies - on whom they've undoubtedly conducted behavioral profiles - better than you and I do.
Wait, aren't you the one who ripped into Rivers for yelling at teammates during the playoff loss last year, even suggesting that the team played poorly because their QB was yelling at them, and now you are all but defending Brady doing it in a Patriots loss? That's cute. :P
And it's easy to say "Brady wins big games, so it works when he does it, while Rivers loses big games, so it doesn't work when he does it," but that would be a cop-out. Where is the consistency??
Yes, indeed that was me, and I'd say it again. I feel it is perfectly "consistent" because they aren't at all the same things.
First, the winning DOES factor in. I'm not going to sit here and assess the motivational factors of each and every Charger under the Rivers regime versus each and every Patriot under Brady. But as a simple matter, what Rivers is doing (and has done) hasn't worked, whereas what Brady et al are doing and have done apparently is.
Second, find me more than a handful of times that Brady, on field and in the middle of a drive screaming at his teammates like a lunatic (not including sound-based yelling; I'm talking about being in someone's grill)? That happens more often than not with Rivers. I obviously can't prove this, but it's my strong belief that the "Rivers" yelling is not about motivation or teaching and is all about a player essentially betraying the pressure of the situation. Brady has his moment, gets back to work, and is all business.
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They've been talking about this article on the radio this afternoon.
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/tom-e-curran-are-these-tom-bradys-final-days-patriots
And for those that are not aware, Tom Curran has a strong connection to Brady.
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The one year deal he took this year was the first time he had a clause that they cannot franchise tag him which lead to these opinions of him going somewhere else.
I think linking the "no franchise tag clause" to him possibly leaving is faulty reasoning. I seemed to remember a similar discussion about Brees a few years ago, so I had to look it up, and it was a similar thing. He had a similar clause going into the last year of his contract, and I guess there was speculation about him leaving since they couldn't make him stay due to the no-tag clause. As history has shown, he didn't leave, so the speculation was ultimately just speculation. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20656257/new-orleans-saints-use-franchise-tag-qb-drew-brees
May be and the team may be calling their bluff. Their has been big signs of his unhappiness the last few yards though.
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Does anyone think it's the worst thing in the world if Brady does play a year or three somewhere else?
Does anyone really think "Oh, Joe Montanna... the Chiefs QB!" or "Brett Favre! Vikes, babay!". I didn't even remember that Emmitt played outside of Dallas. Peyton is a little different, because of the injury and the Super Bowl win, but even he is most often thought of as a Colt.
I think if the off-season goes like that article implies, you let him go with blessings, and say "you're always welcome here." Then you go get Jimmy G. back. :)
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Does anyone think it's the worst thing in the world if Brady does play a year or three somewhere else?
Of course its not. It's also his life and his decision. I just personally don't see anyway it ends better than him staying in NE. He could prove me wrong, but he's already the GOAT. I don't think he has anything he has to prove other than maybe to himself if this is the case and if that's what he feels he needs to do, more power to him.
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So, here's what I have for my projected playoff standings:
AFC:
1. Ravens (13-3)
2. Pats (13-3)
3. Chiefs (12-4)
4. Texans (11-3)
5. Bills (11-5)
6. Steelers (10-6)
That would put Buffalo at Houston and Pittsburth at KC in wildcard weekend. I think the Bills and Chiefs advance.
NFC:
1. 49ers (14-2)
2. Packers (13-3)
3. Saints (13-3)
4. Eagles (9-7)
5. Seahawks (13-3)
6. Vikings (11-5)
That puts Minnesota at NO and Seattle at Philly. No idea who wins the first game, but I probably give a slight nod to the Saints. The Vikings can be dominant, but seem to not show up when needed. As for the second game, I predict Wilson suffers a career-ending injury after getting hit in the head by a battery thrown by an Eagles fan. The fan rightly goes to jail, the Eagles rightly win, and the rest of the country rightly rejoices.
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Looks like Eli Manning is going to start for the Giants this week. Should be interesting to see what happens. Honestly can't be worse than Jones has been, but maybe he's going to put on a show for another team to pick him up next year if he doesn't retire.
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I don't see the Ravens losing a game the rest of the season. I hope you're right bosk1. :lol
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Tom Brady just needs to quit whining and retire before he becomes another drama queen like Brett Favre. Like I said before, what is the guy trying to prove? Their offense isn't good enough to be a SB contender this year and most likely won't be next year either. Just be the GOAT, call it a HoF career and be done with it.
Not as good as the 2000 Ravens, or the 2015 Broncos? And don't forget they won their first super bowl by holding the greatest show on turf to 3 points.
But here's the more important detail. At this point last year the Patriot's offense hadn't even hit rock bottom yet. Where they dropped important games to Pitt and Miami. They didn't really get their act together until week 16 when they became a power run team. They're definitely on the clock, and they need to get things worked out pretty soon, but only a fool would say that they can't work this out with Brady/Belichick/McDaniel's still running the show.
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While I would agree EB they had a running game last year. They've looked better with Wynn back but they haven't had any consistency this year offensively.
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Looks like Eli Manning is going to start for the Giants this week. Should be interesting to see what happens. Honestly can't be worse than Jones has been, but maybe he's going to put on a show for another team to pick him up next year if he doesn't retire.
Daniel Jones has been baffling this year, but I think ultimately, that's a good thing. He's shown flashes of brilliance, and he's shown flashes of "brah, this isn't high school". But he DOES have talent, and so if he can minimize the latter, he'll be good. He's not there yet.
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Looks like Eli Manning is going to start for the Giants this week. Should be interesting to see what happens. Honestly can't be worse than Jones has been, but maybe he's going to put on a show for another team to pick him up next year if he doesn't retire.
Daniel Jones has been baffling this year, but I think ultimately, that's a good thing. He's shown flashes of brilliance, and he's shown flashes of "brah, this isn't high school". But he DOES have talent, and so if he can minimize the latter, he'll be good. He's not there yet.
He doesn't have an OL or WR to help. It's hard to know where he is at because he's not surrounded with people who will make him look better. I'm not a huge fan of our GM and not sure they will do what's needed to make him be successful.
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Tom Brady just needs to quit whining and retire before he becomes another drama queen like Brett Favre. Like I said before, what is the guy trying to prove? Their offense isn't good enough to be a SB contender this year and most likely won't be next year either. Just be the GOAT, call it a HoF career and be done with it.
Not as good as the 2000 Ravens, or the 2015 Broncos? And don't forget they won their first super bowl by holding the greatest show on turf to 3 points.
Might want to look up that score again? :P
I will save you time: it was 20-17.
As little as Brady did in that first Super Bowl run, the drive at the end of the Super Bowl was pretty big. After holding the Rams to 3 points for the first 3+ quarters, the damn had broken and the Rams offense finally was rolling and had tied it up at 17. If that games goes to OT and the Rams get the ball first, the Patriots offense might not have gotten the ball at all again.
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Wrong Rams Patriots SB. :lol
Kind of makes the same point, though. Great defensive performances will win super bowls.
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Tom Brady just needs to quit whining and retire before he becomes another drama queen like Brett Favre. Like I said before, what is the guy trying to prove? Their offense isn't good enough to be a SB contender this year and most likely won't be next year either. Just be the GOAT, call it a HoF career and be done with it.
Not as good as the 2000 Ravens, or the 2015 Broncos? And don't forget they won their first super bowl by holding the greatest show on turf to 3 points.
But here's the more important detail. At this point last year the Patriot's offense hadn't even hit rock bottom yet. Where they dropped important games to Pitt and Miami. They didn't really get their act together until week 16 when they became a power run team. They're definitely on the clock, and they need to get things worked out pretty soon, but only a fool would say that they can't work this out with Brady/Belichick/McDaniel's still running the show.
You're forgetting about the 2019 Ravens. ;)
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Wanted to share something amusing with fellow football fans...
Saturday night I got together with some old friends I used to hang with in my 20's. We would get together every Sunday to eat, drink, watch, and even play football. One of my friends brought up the funniest call by a ref we ever heard and it was as funny talking about it now as it was when we heard it in the 80's.
So a flag is thrown and the ref turns on his mic and proceeds to say the following...
"Personal foul number 71. He was giving him the business. That's a 15 yard penalty. First down!"
Definitely the funniest thing I've ever heard a ref say in all my years watching football. I remember us all looking at each other saying, did he actually just say that?
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Kind of annoying that most of the news on the 49ers' page this morning is surrounding Tim Ryan's silly comments rather than on the much-anticipated Saints game coming up this weekend.
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Wanted to share something amusing with fellow football fans...
Saturday night I got together with some old friends I used to hang with in my 20's. We would get together every Sunday to eat, drink, watch, and even play football. One of my friends brought up the funniest call by a ref we ever heard and it was as funny talking about it now as it was when we heard it in the 80's.
So a flag is thrown and the ref turns on his mic and proceeds to say the following...
"Personal foul number 71. He was giving him the business. That's a 15 yard penalty. First down!"
Definitely the funniest thing I've ever heard a ref say in all my years watching football. I remember us all looking at each other saying, did he actually just say that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LNJnHPUlaI
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Wanted to share something amusing with fellow football fans...
Saturday night I got together with some old friends I used to hang with in my 20's. We would get together every Sunday to eat, drink, watch, and even play football. One of my friends brought up the funniest call by a ref we ever heard and it was as funny talking about it now as it was when we heard it in the 80's.
So a flag is thrown and the ref turns on his mic and proceeds to say the following...
"Personal foul number 71. He was giving him the business. That's a 15 yard penalty. First down!"
Definitely the funniest thing I've ever heard a ref say in all my years watching football. I remember us all looking at each other saying, did he actually just say that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LNJnHPUlaI
:lol
Awesome, thanks for this!
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It's even better in the watching, what with the twisting arm motion.... :)
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Kind of annoying that most of the news on the 49ers' page this morning is surrounding Tim Ryan's silly comments rather than on the much-anticipated Saints game coming up this weekend.
It’s amazing he got suspended for that.
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I thought this was funny, and appropriate:
(https://i.imgur.com/wHii8H4.jpg)
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That "Giving him the business down there" never fails to bring a smile to my face.
There is also the collegiate version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61eq-KjHGfQ
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I don't see Jerry Jones waiting until the end of the season. I called this, in the general sense, but not like this.
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Yep, to say Dallas looks out of sorts would be an understatement. Garrett obviously has lost control of this team and he ain't getting it back.
And while I think Dak is a good QB, Jerry is insane if he gives him anywhere in the 30 million a year range.
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I don't see Jerry Jones waiting until the end of the season. I called this, in the general sense, but not like this.
He won't can him in the middle of the season just because he's sucking. If he does sack him it'll either be to kick the tires on an assistant, or immediately install Rivera. I don't see things getting so bad he has to take him out and shoot him like Wade Phillips.
And while I think Dak is a good QB, Jerry is insane if he gives him anywhere in the 30 million a year range.
I don't think he has any choice. The team is too talented to hand over to a cheaper option. The team's built to win now and throwing in a lesser quarterback would waste what he's got.
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I think after last week that Jerry really wanted to keep Garrett till the end of the season, but tonight's lifeless performance has to be the nail in his coffin. I will be shocked if Garrett is still the head coach for their next game. As awful as this is, history has shown that firing a coach mid-season and installing an interim can give a team a jolt, and they can still win the division with just another win or two, especially if they beat Philly, and Jerry won't want to blow a chance to host a playoff game.
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Troy just basically said something similar to El Barto: he said there's talk around Dallas about whether it's the right thing to let Jason go now, but he asked (and answered) the question: who on that staff has earned the right to get a try out as an interim head coach? No one.
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Yeah, unless you've got Rivera coming in at 0900 tomorrow there's just not really any point.
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I think after last week that Jerry really wanted to keep Garrett till the end of the season, but tonight's lifeless performance has to be the nail in his coffin. I will be shocked if Garrett is still the head coach for their next game. As awful as this is, history has shown that firing a coach mid-season and installing an interim can give a team a jolt, and they can still win the division with just another win or two, especially if they beat Philly, and Jerry won't want to blow a chance to host a playoff game.
JJ's goose is cooked. He's had 20+ years to assemble a winning coaching staff. Dallas will never win another SB with JJ as GM.
Troy just basically said something similar to El Barto: he said there's talk around Dallas about whether it's the right thing to let Jason go now, but he asked (and answered) the question: who on that staff has earned the right to get a try out as an interim head coach? No one.
Exactly. The entire coaching staff is absolutely worthless.
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JJ's goose is cooked. He's had 20+ years to assemble a winning coaching staff. Dallas will never win another SB with JJ as GM.
It's hilarious to think about how bad Jerry bungled it in the 90's. He was so worried about credit that the relationship with Jimmy Johnson splintered, and they were their separate ways after the 2nd Super Bowl win. That team could have won two or three more Super Bowls under Johnson, instead of just one more under Switzer, had Jerry's ego not gotten the best of him.
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He's got Trump SyndromeTM. Just because he's good at one thing, doesn't mean he's good at another. Jerry has the college mentality; he's got a great eye for athletes, but that's not all it takes to be a winner in the NFL (and that's part of my patience with anointing guys like Mahomes and Jackson). He's got great talent, they just don't put together good 60-minute football games. That's not going to change any time soon, in my opinion.
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JJ's goose is cooked. He's had 20+ years to assemble a winning coaching staff. Dallas will never win another SB with JJ as GM.
It's hilarious to think about how bad Jerry bungled it in the 90's. He was so worried about credit that the relationship with Jimmy Johnson splintered, and they were their separate ways after the 2nd Super Bowl win. That team could have won two or three more Super Bowls under Johnson, instead of just one more under Switzer, had Jerry's ego not gotten the best of him.
Exactly, and Jimmy Johnson has been laughing his ass off ever since. :lol :lol
He's got Trump SyndromeTM. Just because he's good at one thing, doesn't mean he's good at another. Jerry has the college mentality; he's got a great eye for athletes, but that's not all it takes to be a winner in the NFL (and that's part of my patience with anointing guys like Mahomes and Jackson). He's got great talent, they just don't put together good 60-minute football games. That's not going to change any time soon, in my opinion.
Right. JJ has done a lot for the league and his organization from a business standpoint, but he doesn't know shit about football.
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The thing is, there's easily enough talent on the Cowboys. Yes, Jason Garrett is not a great coach, but Jones really torpedoed their season after the loss at NE. Calling out the coach after THAT game was a mistake. They basically went toe to toe with the Pats on the road in shit weather. Had he come out at that point and said he was proud of their effort, there's no way the last couple of weeks would've played out the way they have. It's Garrett's time to go anyway, but Jones did nothing but verify that to the team, and basically cut Garrett's legs out from underneath him.
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Well said TAC!
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I'm not entirely sold on this 49er team, but one thing I will say: they are the best team in the league at not letting the FLOW of the game get away from them.
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Apparently Bill Belichick controls baggage claim. :lol
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Jesus Christ the refs really hate the Saints don’t they?
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Jesus Christ the refs really hate the Saints don’t they?
Which call? The fake punt one or the last head shot call?
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Apparently Bill Belichick controls baggage claim. :lol
(https://i.postimg.cc/L6X1PPrZ/FB-IMG-1575837780763.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8s2cQ7k1)
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49ers Defense decided to not show up today. At least their offense did...
In other news, it looks like the Bills are trying to make it interesting against the Ravens. :corn
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Jesus Christ the refs really hate the Saints don’t they?
Which call? The fake punt one or the last head shot call?
The play where the 49ers defender was holding onto Michael Thomas’ shoulder pads for about 30 seconds without letting go.
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Saints/49ers has been lots of fun. Great finish coming.
Nice win for the Broncos today, and more proof of what a doofus Bill O'Brien is. They beat the Patriots and then get their asses kicked the following week at home by a 4-8 team. :lol :lol
Drew Lock has been good so far for the Broncos. Maybe Elway finally got one right with the QB.
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Fuck this game is tense.
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And the nation discovers once again that the Ravens defense ain't too bad (though the officials gave it their best shot).
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George Kittle is a beast.
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And the nation discovers once again that the Ravens defense ain't too bad (though the officials gave it their best shot).
The refs and Greg Roman damn near pulled it off. WTF was going on with the play calling today.
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George Kittle is a beast.
Right?
What a fucking game...I'm breathless.
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Game. Of. The. Year.
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Fuck the Saints! :rollin :rollin
George Kittle is a beast.
The new Gronk.
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What a game. Saints with a tough loss again, big win for the '9ers.
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I think the Pats are going to get smoked today.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELSxaSFX0Akzfol?format=jpg&name=large)
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Niners face three playoff teams in a row, facing three of the best QBs in the league, take two out of three and lose the other by a microscopic hair. This team is fucking legit.
I'm not sure I'll have anything left for the Hawks season finale game in two weeks after this past month, that game in Seattle will be epic on a biblical level.
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Niners face three playoff teams in a row, facing three of the best QBs in the league, take two out of three and lose the other by a microscopic hair. This team is fucking legit.
Totally agree with this, that loss also being on the road.
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Big interception but that Pats need 7 from it.
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Did Boston fans really just boo the team as the Patriots were leaving the field for halftime? :lol :lol
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Yup. They should be booing the GM who put this sham of an o-line. The revolving door of receivers when we all know you have to protect an aging pocket passer.
I'd be booing too. We demand more here. We are spoiled Kev. :lol
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Did Boston fans really just boo the team as the Patriots were leaving the field for halftime? :lol :lol
Hell yes, and good for them. They're playing like shit.
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Here's hoping it's the beginning of the end...
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You said it, not me, Joe.
Booing the team that has given you 6 Super Bowl titles in the last two decades is a lot more than just spoiled...but I will leave it at that.
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How so? THIS team hasn't done jack?
Are you supposed to cheer them "nice effort guys" after that half?
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I can boo all I want. I'm disappointed in their play. That's how you voice displeasure.
When a team is really bad you voice your displeasure by not showing up to the games.
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That first down spot was bullshit. It's debatable as to whether or not he got the first down, but he didn't come close the 40 where they left it after the review. Apparently if they don't give you the 1st down they don't bother correcting the spot no mater how bad it was.
The inadvertent whistle really sucked, but it is what it is.
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NFL officials are so dumb. Have they not been told to not blow those plays dead? Idiocy.
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The refs interject themselves too much because the league keeps adding rules.
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That's THREE drops by Myers in this game. WTF??
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I'm not usually in the Patriots corner....but they have literally gotten the shaft on three blown calls IN A ROW.
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NE got fucked on the Harry TD. And they should have won the first challenge which would have allowed them to throw a flag on that one.
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I'm not usually in the Patriots corner....but they have literally gotten the shaft on three blown calls IN A ROW.
Now they know how other teams usually feel. ;)
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:rollin
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Yeah, these refs let that go then it goes to reply and clearly a TD. Again, injecting themselves causing them affecting the score.
I'm not usually in the Patriots corner....but they have literally gotten the shaft on three blown calls IN A ROW.
Now they know how other teams usually feel. ;)
You Denver homer. :lol
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1) the fumble which SHOULD have been a TD
2) the TD....which should have been a TD
and I'll admit 3 is a bit shakier....but I'm with Edelman who was trying to argue that if you call it a TD, and the offence is walking off the field, it's not really fair to expect them to change gears with the play clock still running. Half the offence is on the sideline but you're going to keep running the play clock just because YOU blew the call and then reversed it?
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NE got fucked on the Harry TD. And they should have won the first challenge which would have allowed them to throw a flag on that one.
Totally, but Myers should've caught that ball in the end zone. Hell, he should've caught the ball at the 4 when they called the penalty.
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I'm not usually in the Patriots corner....but they have literally gotten the shaft on three blown calls IN A ROW.
Now they know how other teams usually feel. ;)
You Denver homer. :lol
Hey now, I will almost always admit when the Broncos get an iffy call that goes in their favor, like last week when I said the PI call that helped them beat the Chargers was dubious at best.
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Lolol
Make up call on Kelce. I'll take the TD instead.
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Hey now, I will almost always admit when the Broncos get an iffy call that goes in their favor, like last week when I said the PI call that helped them beat the Chargers was dubious at best.
Since when does dubious mean totally legit?
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So.... it's a tie game, 23-23, since the Pats scored twice on that sequence (the fumble recovery blown dead prematurely, then the bad call on the sideline; surely one of them should count)... but my TV screen keeps showing 23-16.
Oh, and if I haven't said it before, Jim Nance blows. Hard. God is he awful.
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NE got fucked on the Harry TD. And they should have won the first challenge which would have allowed them to throw a flag on that one.
Totally, but Myers should've caught that ball in the end zone. Hell, he should've caught the ball at the 4 when they called the penalty.
He shouldn't have had to.
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So.... it's a tie game, 23-23, since the Pats scored twice on that sequence (the fumble recovery blown dead prematurely, then the bad call on the sideline; surely one of them should count)... but my TV screen keeps showing 23-16.
If one of them counts, that makes it 23-20, unless there is a new rule about being able to score 10 points on a single possession. :P :lol
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Oh, and no, not whining about the calls in this game. My criticism is sort of more general. There are just too many non-judgmental calls being blown that affect games (like the sideline call; there's no judgment, he's either in or out). There were a couple in the Saints game, too (though they did get that fake punt right, regardless).
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So.... it's a tie game, 23-23, since the Pats scored twice on that sequence (the fumble recovery blown dead prematurely, then the bad call on the sideline; surely one of them should count)... but my TV screen keeps showing 23-16.
If one of them counts, that makes it 23-20, unless there is a new rule about being able to score 10 points on a single possession. :P :lol
It's a joke, not math class.
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I get why Saints fans are jaded, but that call on that fake punt was correct.
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So.... it's a tie game, 23-23, since the Pats scored twice on that sequence (the fumble recovery blown dead prematurely, then the bad call on the sideline; surely one of them should count)... but my TV screen keeps showing 23-16.
If one of them counts, that makes it 23-20, unless there is a new rule about being able to score 10 points on a single possession. :P :lol
It's a joke, not math class.
Right Kev, There a book posted in another thread that'll explain it.
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NE has no challenges left for that PI...now that the dumbass NFL would overturn it anyway.
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Um, Kev? :lol
Then Brady's run?
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Brady WTF? The endzone was like 5 steps away with no one in front of you. Don't be such a pussy!
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Good to see Boston fans now cheering for Brady instead of booing him.
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Brady WTF? The endzone was like 5 steps away with no one in front of you. Don't be such a pussy!
He would have needed a walker to get any further.
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It was there for him. He quits on plays so fucking easily.
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It was there for him. He quits on plays so fucking easily.
Dude, he is 42 and slow. It's amazing he picked up as many yards as he did.
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Good defensive play. Should have a chance to kick a tying FG but them are the brakes. Should have adjusted in the 2nd quarter.
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It was still there for him.
And was that the best play they had?
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Chiefs defense with a big stop.
I might be the first person in decades to say that.
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At least the last play was clean. That would be too much to bear.
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It was still there for him.
And was that the best play they had?
All out blitz is a one on one play. Julian not the best one on one jump ball guy to go to.
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It was there for him. He quits on plays so fucking easily.
Dude, he is 42 and slow. It's amazing he picked up as many yards as he did.
Good grief, we're gonna bitch when Brady only rushes for 13 instead of 18?
It was still there for him.
And was that the best play they had?
It was an excellent play and worked exactly as intended. The DB just made a phenomenal play on the ball. Sometimes you stand on 20 and still get beat.
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Good defensive play. Should have a chance to kick a tying FG but them are the brakes. Should have adjusted in the 2nd quarter.
That second quarter was a killer. Worst in Gillette history, Jim Nance helpfully pointed out. They held Mahomes to a field goal in the second half though. Nothing wrong with that. You hold Mahomes to 23 points you should win.
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It was still there for him.
And was that the best play they had?
All out blitz is a one on one play. Julian not the best one on one jump ball guy to go to.
That's where a Gronk (or Kelce or Kittle) is so valuable.
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Dude, he is 42 and slow. It's amazing he picked up as many yards as he did.
Good grief, we're gonna bitch when Brady only rushes for 13 instead of 18?
Yes. the only thing between him and the endzone was a guy's shadow.
And was that the best play they had?
It was an excellent play and worked exactly as intended. The DB just made a phenomenal play on the ball. Sometimes you stand on 20 and still get beat.
Sure, it almost worked. But the guy was draped all over him. Tony Romo told you they were blitzing. Just seemed like a low percentage play.
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That's really the only play in a blitz in 4th down close to the endzone. Harry would have been better for that play.
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It was still there for him.
And was that the best play they had?
All out blitz is a one on one play. Julian not the best one on one jump ball guy to go to.
That's where a Gronk (or Kelce or Kittle) is so valuable.
That's why they drafted Harry in the first round.
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It was still there for him.
And was that the best play they had?
All out blitz is a one on one play. Julian not the best one on one jump ball guy to go to.
That's where a Gronk (or Kelce or Kittle) is so valuable.
That's why they drafted Harry in the first round.
That'll be the go-to option in two years, sure. ;). :)
Seriously, though, I think that's at the heart of Brady's beef; he doesn't have the confidence - and his lack of confidence is not unfounded at this point - in these guys to go to with one and only one play.
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The Carrie Underwood bastardization of the overrated Joan Jett song is really bad.
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Joan Jett would disagree. She's taking in the money for it plus, the spotlight.
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NE got hosed by bad calls for sure. But I have a separate issue, that so many Patriot fans are so hypocritically un-self aware about. Brady is the only QB allowed to blame shit receivers. In the 2016 AFC CG Roethlisberger had to throw to 3 assholes who never played another down in the NFL. But according to comments made during the game, it’s because he sucks not because of shit receivers. ::). By the way, last time I checked Edelman and Sanu were legit NFL starters.
Back to the game. I was sure KC was going to blow it again because of typical things teams do in Foxboro. Fumbles, blocked punts, etc. But huge kudos to the much-maligned KC defense for stepping up. Based on how NE competed I still think they’ll make noise in the playoffs.
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That's bullshit. If you were unbiased, you'd know the offensive line is the root of all that's wrong but you want to put the blame on the player you dislike. Dislike? More like hate.
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I think his point, and it is a valid one, is that some act like poor Tom Brady is the first QB to play behind an average line and to have to deal with new wide receivers. He's not.
Russell Wilson has played behind a terrible O-line for most of his career. There are years he would have loved to have the O-line Brady has this year.
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No. That's pointing out the obvious Kev. I know you saw the game tonight. Hey I blame BB for this. You know Brady is only mobile in the pocket. So the O line is the most important part.
It's not like this is something new with Brady. :lol
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And I can't speak for anyone else, but I never said they were 'shit', just that they are not fully acclimated yet. THat's an observation, not a complaint. We're pointing out differences that might explain why the record is different, why the outcomes are different, why the vibe is different. Sanu is a quality receiver. Harry will be. I'm thinking Meyers will be.
And most of my complaints aren't about "shit receivers" - we've lived a blessed life in New England - it's with the knee jerk "Brady's spent!" rhetoric. I wish they won; I'm frustrated that they didn't, and I'm frustrated about the Harry call (it changes the game; they just have to punch a FG at the end and we're in OT, where anything can happen). But they didn't. No whining, no complaining. We play next week, like everyone else. But it wasn't Brady's fault that they lost.
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Gurley looks like a beast tonight. Goff is... well, I'm spoiled. I'm glad he's not my franchise's quarterback.
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That was a terrible game.
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So, in the 49ers' win yesterday, after throwing for 345 yards and 4 TDs, Jimmy G. had the second highest passer rating on the team. :lol
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No. That's pointing out the obvious Kev. I know you saw the game tonight. Hey I blame BB for this. You know Brady is only mobile in the pocket. So the O line is the most important part.
It's not like this is something new with Brady. :lol
Of course, because when things go wrong, it is never Brady's fault, but always Belichick's, right? :P
And I can't speak for anyone else, but I never said they were 'shit', just that they are not fully acclimated yet. THat's an observation, not a complaint. We're pointing out differences that might explain why the record is different, why the outcomes are different, why the vibe is different. Sanu is a quality receiver. Harry will be. I'm thinking Meyers will be.
And most of my complaints aren't about "shit receivers" - we've lived a blessed life in New England - it's with the knee jerk "Brady's spent!" rhetoric. I wish they won; I'm frustrated that they didn't, and I'm frustrated about the Harry call (it changes the game; they just have to punch a FG at the end and we're in OT, where anything can happen). But they didn't. No whining, no complaining. We play next week, like everyone else. But it wasn't Brady's fault that they lost.
Seeing the play again, it looks like a Chief defender was there to make the tackle around the 15, but was blocked in the back, which allowed Harry to get the corner and (almost) score. So, while the officials missed him scoring, they also missed an apparent block in the back that allowed him the opportunity to score.
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Seeing the play again, it looks like a Chief defender was there to make the tackle around the 15, but was blocked in the back, which allowed Harry to get the corner and (almost) score. So, while the officials missed him scoring, they also missed an apparent block in the back that allowed him the opportunity to score.
Maybe, maybe not. That's a judgment call, and as I noted above, I'm less concerned with the judgment calls as I am the clearly factual ones. His foot is either in or out, there's no gray area. We've had four or five instances in the last couple weeks about officials prematurely blowing the play dead. I forget the play now, but it wasn't more than a couple weeks where it was reaffirmed that the refs should err on the side of letting the play run out, THEN calling it back if they had to. This isn't "judgment" at this point, it's protocol.
I've ref'd and ump'd (hockey and baseball/softball). I get it; it's fast, and people make mistakes. But like anything else, you have to build that in and make mistakes the right way. As a ref you put yourself in the position of having the least effect on the outcome that you can.
(And by the way, I'm not just talking about the Patriots; as I noted above, there's not an ounce of whining or complaining here; they lost, they lost, let's move on. I'm of the opinion that December losses in New England reap more than they sow; I liked what I saw in that game with respect to the playoffs. If anything, I'm referring to the Saints run over the past year or so; Payton must've banged someone's wife or something, because the Saints cannot catch a break with the penalties. Some deserved - the face mask; that was stupid - some not - I don't know how CJ Gardner-Johnson was supposed to play that receiver in that instance.)
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I agree, blowing plays dead too quickly is terrible. The Kelce fumble play yesterday cost NE some yards (I doubt he scores and makes it much farther since Tyreek Hill, who is faster than the roadrunner, was already on his way to stopping the return), and then of course the Harry play. Since all scoring plays are reviewed, it would have made more sense call it a TD and then look at it, but then the problem with always calling close calls TD's is that what if he didn't score, but there is no evidence to overturn it? Then touchdowns are being called when they aren't to the naked eye on first look just for the sake of being able to look at the replay to confirm it. The bottom line is, there is no easy solution, and I get that these guys are human and make way more tough calls than they miss, but they just seem to miss so many glaring ones now. And sure, instant replay and us, the viewer, getting 144 replays of it right away don't help, when those guys have to make the correct call in real time, but when they have been told to not blow plays dead prematurely and do it anyway, it's just a really bad look, especially since any discipline NFL officials get is always being closed doors and I don't think we ever told about it.
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There might be a middle ground: have New York (or whatever euphemism we use for the booth review) have a line in to the head ref. OBVIOUS, non-judgmental calls can get corrected in real time without coaches or fans being any the wiser. Have that person be "part of the crew" and have on tap those plays that are likely going to be glaring on the Jumbo-tron. It's no difference - from a practical standpoint - of having the line judge weigh in on a call that is nominally the back judge. Or whatever.
Hell, if every character in every cop procedural can talk in real time with the computer wizard in the back office, then certainly there can be a huddle or two on field while plays like that are reviewed.
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No. That's pointing out the obvious Kev. I know you saw the game tonight. Hey I blame BB for this. You know Brady is only mobile in the pocket. So the O line is the most important part.
It's not like this is something new with Brady. :lol
Of course, because when things go wrong, it is never Brady's fault, but always Belichick's, right? :P
And I can't speak for anyone else, but I never said they were 'shit', just that they are not fully acclimated yet. THat's an observation, not a complaint. We're pointing out differences that might explain why the record is different, why the outcomes are different, why the vibe is different. Sanu is a quality receiver. Harry will be. I'm thinking Meyers will be.
And most of my complaints aren't about "shit receivers" - we've lived a blessed life in New England - it's with the knee jerk "Brady's spent!" rhetoric. I wish they won; I'm frustrated that they didn't, and I'm frustrated about the Harry call (it changes the game; they just have to punch a FG at the end and we're in OT, where anything can happen). But they didn't. No whining, no complaining. We play next week, like everyone else. But it wasn't Brady's fault that they lost.
Seeing the play again, it looks like a Chief defender was there to make the tackle around the 15, but was blocked in the back, which allowed Harry to get the corner and (almost) score. So, while the officials missed him scoring, they also missed an apparent block in the back that allowed him the opportunity to score.
Nope, I still blame The GM. That Offensive line is the issue. I've said this over and over. No time to throw is ten fold harder with newer players and not quite knowing where they should be in this offense so yeah, the majority of the blame is on the GM.
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...I get that these guys are human and make way more tough calls than they miss, but they just seem to miss so many glaring ones now.
But is it really that much worse? I'm not saying it isn't. But there are so many factors now that seem to magnify these errors and make them seem more glaring than they would on the field in real time. As you mentioned, instant reply overload is one such factor. But digging into that, there's a lot there. There are a lot more camera angles available now, and better ones at that. There's high def. There's the ability to slow down and pause in high def. There's a lot of technology that makes it very easy to scrutinize everything after the fact and see things as glaringly obvious that were anything but that in the moment. Then you throw in the fact that the games is just faster now than it has ever been, and there are more rules now than there ever have been, and I think it's hard not to have a high degree of human error. So, is the officiating markedly worse nowadays? I'm not so sure. I can't really take a hard stance one way or the other.
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Joan Jett would disagree. She's taking in the money for it plus, the spotlight.
Bad song and profitable cash-in for one of the songwriters are two different things (interesting that this is the only one of Jett's three top-10 singles that she co-wrote). I'm sure Desmond Child (the other songwriter) enjoys it as well, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Joan Jett sold off her publishing from the 80s and didn't get a dime out of this (except for an appearance fee for being in the video).
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Conjecturing if she still owns the rights to the song justifies your stance for a song you don't like doesn't make sense.
It just seems weird that you are passionate on a TV theme song that i really don't pay much attention to. In this day and age I'm on my phone until the first hut hut!
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Terry Bradshaw said something last week that was interesting: he turned to Howie Long and said "remember when we were standing on the sideline and we looked at each other and said 'can you believe we used to do THAT?'", commenting on the speed and ferocity of the game, especially as compared to the college game.
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Conjecturing if she still owns the rights to the song justifies your stance for a song you don't like doesn't make sense.
Huh? I just don't like the song. That requires, and I offered, no justification (hence my comment that "Bad song and profitable cash-in . . . are two different things"). At least it's better than the prior intro song where Underwood basically screamed, "SUNDAY NIGHT!" for two straight minutes.
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There might be a middle ground: have New York (or whatever euphemism we use for the booth review) have a line in to the head ref. OBVIOUS, non-judgmental calls can get corrected in real time without coaches or fans being any the wiser. Have that person be "part of the crew" and have on tap those plays that are likely going to be glaring on the Jumbo-tron. It's no difference - from a practical standpoint - of having the line judge weigh in on a call that is nominally the back judge. Or whatever.
Hell, if every character in every cop procedural can talk in real time with the computer wizard in the back office, then certainly there can be a huddle or two on field while plays like that are reviewed.
That would make the most sense, and we know the NFL can afford it, but I'll bet that Jerry Jones, who has as much or more power than any other owner, puts the kabash on that because he thinks human error if a part of the game and that bad calls are good for the league since they create controversy and get people talking more about the league.
Nope, I still blame The GM. That Offensive line is the issue. I've said this over and over. No time to throw is ten fold harder with newer players and not quite knowing where they should be in this offense so yeah, the majority of the blame is on the GM.
Okay, but haven't they lost like two or three centers now to injury?
...I get that these guys are human and make way more tough calls than they miss, but they just seem to miss so many glaring ones now.
But is it really that much worse? I'm not saying it isn't. But there are so many factors now that seem to magnify these errors and make them seem more glaring than they would on the field in real time. As you mentioned, instant reply overload is one such factor. But digging into that, there's a lot there. There are a lot more camera angles available now, and better ones at that. There's high def. There's the ability to slow down and pause in high def. There's a lot of technology that makes it very easy to scrutinize everything after the fact and see things as glaringly obvious that were anything but that in the moment. Then you throw in the fact that the games is just faster now than it has ever been, and there are more rules now than there ever have been, and I think it's hard not to have a high degree of human error. So, is the officiating markedly worse nowadays? I'm not so sure. I can't really take a hard stance one way or the other.
It probably isn't any worse now than it ever was, but the combination of too many new rules (to which Joe has alluded) and better instant replays for the viewer gives the perception that it is. And the league doesn't help by seemingly doing as little as possible to help (see: their refusal to overturn tons of PI calls this year), and then never holding officials who make big blunders accountable publicly. The NHL in the playoffs last year suspended two officiating crews for the remainder of the playoffs due to terrible calls/non-calls that directly influenced the outcome of games (and in one case, the outcome of a series), and made those suspensions public. The NFL would never publicly do that to an official or a crew who screwed up a big call in a playoff game.
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So, anyone think the 49ers go 14-2? They are at home against the Falcons and Rams, and then up to Seattle for their final game. If Seattle loses against either the Panthers or Cardinals, and the 49ers win the next two weeks, the week 17 game becomes irrelevant.
Going back to the SF/Seattle game a few weeks ago, that again raises an interesting point about whether the 49ers should have played for the tie when they got the ball at the 20 with 1:50 remaining. Shanahan has been criticized for not being more conservative and running out the clock. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/should-49ers-have-gone-tie-late-overtime-loss-seahawks And I get it and cannot disagree. But he thought it was important to the team and to the fans to put his money where his mouth is in terms of expressing confidence in his offense to get it done, and I don't fault him for that, even though a tie would have now rendered the week 17 matchup meaningless if both teams win out from this point forward up to that game (the 49ers would have a half game lead over the Seahawks even if they were to lose the week 17 game).
As for overall standings/seeding, I still mostly stand by this: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53408.msg2609154#msg2609154 Although Denver threw a bit of a monkey wrench into the AFC South. I think the Titans could sneak up and win the division, bumping the Texans to the #6, and in turn bumping the Steelers out. I think this scenario is more likely than I thought it would be a week ago.
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It probably isn't any worse now than it ever was, but the combination of too many new rules (to which Joe has alluded) and better instant replays for the viewer gives the perception that it is. And the league doesn't help by seemingly doing as little as possible to help (see: their refusal to overturn tons of PI calls this year), and then never holding officials who make big blunders accountable publicly. The NHL in the playoffs last year suspended two officiating crews for the remainder of the playoffs due to terrible calls/non-calls that directly influenced the outcome of games (and in one case, the outcome of a series), and made those suspensions public. The NFL would never publicly do that to an official or a crew who screwed up a big call in a playoff game.
To that last point, I think the rules have morphed a bit. It's turned from "fair guidelines as to how the game is played" - two feet in bounds, you can't level a receiver the moment the QB says "hike", etc. - to "governing behavior on the field" - well, that was a legit tackle, but since you didn't give the impression that you gave two shits about his mental capacity in fifteen years, we're going to flag you". I think the problem for me is the latter. It's created this morass of things that a ref has to look at on every play, and when you couple that with the sheer speed of the game, it's untenable.
And I don't think I have to actually say, I disagree with Jerry Jones' reality TV viewpoint of the league. Controversy is NOT good, except in the short game. There's going to come a point - and for me, a die-hard NFL fan, it's fast approaching - where I just say "it ain't worth it".
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I hear that. Maybe it has happened since and I do not recall, but the last time I remember the NFL calling out one of their officials for a bad call was when Hercules Hochuli blew that play dead in the Broncos/Chargers game in 2008 (the Chargers recovered it after the whistle which would have ended the game with them winning, Broncos retained possession because of the whistle and went on to score and win).
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So, anyone think the 49ers go 14-2? They are at home against the Falcons and Rams, and then up to Seattle for their final game. If Seattle loses against either the Panthers or Cardinals, and the 49ers win the next two weeks, the week 17 game becomes irrelevant.
I'm not pissing on your question, because it's relevant and interesting, but I think for me, it's a trap ("It's a TRAP!"). I think the league is in an interesting place now. There are certainly "tiers" of teams - I roughly look at three tiers - but within that, there's a sort of parity in the league. I think when you look at the top tier teams - SF, KC, NE, Baltimore, NO, Seattle, GB (though I'm not as high on GB as the rest of the group) - any one of those teams can win on any given week, especially in the playoffs. I can't speak for any one else, but I didn't see Seattle phoning in that game last night. Not in a million years. They had every reason, every incentive, to play that game like it was the NFC Championship game, and yet they didn't. Conversely, I don't think very many people saw yesterday afternoon's game being 23-16.
That said, I don't see the Seahawks losing to both the Panthers and the Cardinals. I think in a meaningful game, that week 17 match is going to be as good as any game we saw yesterday.
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I hear that. Maybe it has happened since and I do not recall, but the last time I remember the NFL calling out one of their officials for a bad call was when Hercules Hochuli blew that play dead in the Broncos/Chargers game in 2008 (the Chargers recovered it after the whistle which would have ended the game with them winning, Broncos retained possession because of the whistle and went on to score and win).
Last year. And from what I gather refs do get suspended during the season for making mistakes.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/10/25/18023646/nfl-referee-fired-officiating-browns-chargers-missed-false-start
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So, anyone think the 49ers go 14-2? They are at home against the Falcons and Rams, and then up to Seattle for their final game. If Seattle loses against either the Panthers or Cardinals, and the 49ers win the next two weeks, the week 17 game becomes irrelevant.
I'm not pissing on your question, because it's relevant and interesting, but I think for me, it's a trap ("It's a TRAP!"). I think the league is in an interesting place now. There are certainly "tiers" of teams - I roughly look at three tiers - but within that, there's a sort of parity in the league. I think when you look at the top tier teams - SF, KC, NE, Baltimore, NO, Seattle, GB (though I'm not as high on GB as the rest of the group) - any one of those teams can win on any given week, especially in the playoffs. I can't speak for any one else, but I didn't see Seattle phoning in that game last night. Not in a million years. They had every reason, every incentive, to play that game like it was the NFC Championship game, and yet they didn't. Conversely, I don't think very many people saw yesterday afternoon's game being 23-16.
That said, I don't see the Seahawks losing to both the Panthers and the Cardinals. I think in a meaningful game, that week 17 match is going to be as good as any game we saw yesterday.
I initially didn't see Seattle losing either. But I heard an analyst on local radio last Friday who changed my mind. He surprised the three radio hosts by picking the Rams this game in what he characterized as a "classic upset" game. Within getting into the nitty gritty, his basic premise was that the Rams are healthier now than they have been most of the season, they were embarrassed by the Ravens 2 weeks ago when they were shorthanded, and they knew coming out of that game that the rest of the season was going to be "make or break" in terms of making the playoffs. He felt that they coming back and utterly pasting the Cardinals last week showed that they were both capable and highly motivated. That's the big picture. He of course had lots of little supporting details as well. I came away from it pretty convinced. So I wasn't overly surprised by the result.
I agree with you that Seattle isn't likely to lose both of their next 2. But given the standings, they only have to lose one of those to make week 17 irrelevant (provided the 49ers beat the Falcons and Rams). I agree with you that they are probably in that upper tier of teams. But just barely. They have talent. But they are thin at quite a few positions. And losing their RB didn't help.
I can't decide how I feel about week 17 yet. Part of me wants the game to mean something, and for the 49ers to go in there and get the win. But in a season where they have suffered injuries in almost every game, another part of me wants to see them be able to rest the starters that week so they can ostensibly be a much healthier team come week 2 of the playoffs. But it is what it is--we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. Main thing is, as a fan, I'm still just over the moon that they are 11-2 and in control of the #1 seed this late in the year. Given that their predicted record before the start of the season was as low as 6-10, depending on who you talked to, this season has FAR exceeded expectations, no matter what happens now.
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And you should celebrate that, no question. I'm a cynical guy in general, but that's across the board, not just San Francisco. There are far more "2015 Carolina Panthers" and "Robert Griffin III" than there are "1973 Miami Dolphins" and "Peyton Manning". You can substitute teams and players if you like, but you get the gist: teams that had one season where they were clearly dominant and yet... it didn't really sustain itself.
I think Baltimore and San Francisco have both done this right; they have strong coaches, good schemes, and good scheme players (that's not a knock; Lamar Jackson seems to be the real deal, but the SCHEME he is in certainly helps him). I think Seattle has proven over the past five, seven years that they're always going to be in there. NO, NE, the same way. I THINK SF has as much a shot as the next team, maybe better, but I think there are teams out there that you cannot count out just on principle.
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Not a good look for the Patriots today, reports are out of them taping the Bengals (!) and their fans harassing Mahomes’ girlfriend in the stands. Why would fans of a team with 6 Lombardis need to harass the significant other of the QB of a team who has 1?
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Because they are drunk. Didn't the pats also have KC equipment sent to NJ? :lol
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Not a good look for the Patriots today, reports are out of them taping the Bengals (!) and their fans harassing Mahomes’ girlfriend in the stands. Why would fans of a team with 6 Lombardis need to harass the significant other of the QB of a team who has 1?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2019/12/09/patrick-mahomes-girlfriend-brittany-matthews-patriots-fans-harassed-her-chiefs/40787765/
(excerpt)
Update: Gillette security cane (sic) and got us said we have cameras everywhere and we have seen you getting harassed so we are gonna move you to a safe section!
Of course they do! :lol :lol :lol
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that got a good LOL from me, luckily I wasn't drinking anything :lol
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Lol. Kev, all stadiums have cameras for security.
Also don't lump a few assholes for a fanbase. Unless it's Philly those shit eaters. :lol
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So far here is Adam Schefter on the filming.
(https://i.postimg.cc/157frPZ9/Screenshot-20191209-172200-Twitter.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7f7HqF6c)
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Not a good look for the Patriots today, reports are out of them taping the Bengals (!) and their fans harassing Mahomes’ girlfriend in the stands. Why would fans of a team with 6 Lombardis need to harass the significant other of the QB of a team who has 1?
Have you ever been to a pro football game?!?
It's got nothing to do with the New England Patriots. I've seen that kind of thing in Boston, New York, Philly, Charlotte, and Atlanta. It's meatheads being meatheads.
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By the way, as I typed that, the Philly fans were getting on their own team.
Got to be happy for Eli Manning, though. Class act. Didn't whine, didn't complain, didn't cry, but when he got his chance, he's making the most of it. Good touch, good field presence, even a little mobility for the old man. The Gints do not look like a 2-10 team at all.
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Lamar Jackson is day-to-day with a quad injury.
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By the way, as I typed that, the Philly fans were getting on their own team.
Got to be happy for Eli Manning, though. Class act. Didn't whine, didn't complain, didn't cry, but when he got his chance, he's making the most of it. Good touch, good field presence, even a little mobility for the old man. The Gints do not look like a 2-10 team at all.
Yea, I'm happy for Eli to have this right now. However, I do wonder how much of this is the Eagles just being a really bad team right now. Second half might be more interesting since Philly has a lot more on the line.
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Them's the Giants for you, right there.
VERY mixed emotions about watching Eli on the field after the game. I know I'm being crazy sentimental for a player that there's not a lot of love for here (for the life of me I can't understand why) but watching him gracefully and classily seek out Wentz and Pederson, and in between spent quality time with easily 10 or 15 Eagles before going to the locker room... it was moving to see. I think he knows the time is short (let him who hath understanding reckon... sorry, I digress) at least in New York. I just hope the Giants treat him with the grace and class he has shown them.
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Not a good look for the Patriots today, reports are out of them taping the Bengals (!) and their fans harassing Mahomes’ girlfriend in the stands. Why would fans of a team with 6 Lombardis need to harass the significant other of the QB of a team who has 1?
Have you ever been to a pro football game?!?
It's got nothing to do with the New England Patriots. I've seen that kind of thing in Boston, New York, Philly, Charlotte, and Atlanta. It's meatheads being meatheads.
There are idiot fans everywhere. Honestly, the way a lot of 49er fans were behaving toward anyone in green at the 49ers/Packers game in Santa Clara a few weeks ago made me ashamed to be wearing a '9ers jersey. I don't get what makes people think they have the right to be complete idiots to others based on what colors they are wearing or what team they like.
That said, I know a lot of 49ers fans traveled this last weekend, and I heard a few reports about how gracious and polite the fans in New Orleans were, so big :tup to the people of NOLA.
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Not a good look for the Patriots today, reports are out of them taping the Bengals (!) and their fans harassing Mahomes’ girlfriend in the stands. Why would fans of a team with 6 Lombardis need to harass the significant other of the QB of a team who has 1?
Have you ever been to a pro football game?!?
It's got nothing to do with the New England Patriots. I've seen that kind of thing in Boston, New York, Philly, Charlotte, and Atlanta. It's meatheads being meatheads.
There are idiot fans everywhere. Honestly, the way a lot of 49er fans were behaving toward anyone in green at the 49ers/Packers game in Santa Clara a few weeks ago made me ashamed to be wearing a '9ers jersey. I don't get what makes people think they have the right to be complete idiots to others based on what colors they are wearing or what team they like.
That said, I know a lot of 49ers fans traveled this last weekend, and I heard a few reports about how gracious and polite the fans in New Orleans were, so big :tup to the people of NOLA.
My experience with a game in Foxborough was that the visiting fans were treated quite well. There was plenty of razzing but it was all good natured. Exactly as it should be. My hunch was that this was a couple of drunken louts and a whole lot of herd behavior. It happense. Honestly, it seems to me that the story should be how stadium officials handled the thing, and not that it happened in the first place. They noticed it without having to be informed and moved the two into a suite so they could enjoy the game. It wouldn't surprise me if they weren't also looking to yank some PSLs, or at very least block those tickets for a game or two.
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This is the sort of idea that is impossible to put adequately into words; it's often misconstrued as "victim blaming", and it's not. I'm not implying anything, as I wasn't there, but as a general proposition, in my experience meathead behavior in New England/New York/Philly is that it has to be responded to correctly. It IS largely good-natured - not always, but largely - and will stay that way if you accept it as such. The people that get into trouble quickest seem to be those that don't see it for what it is and try to make it out to be more than it is.
I remember going to my first game at Fenway - we were in Boston to undergo some testing for his "new" arthritis - and like a dick - sue me, I was not quite ten at the time - I wore a Yankees jersey. My dad got soaked by beer for most of the first couple of innings and endured a fair amount of verbal abuse. I don't really know how he did it - again, I was ten, and he was pretty sick at that time - but somehow, by the end of the game, I remember him saying goodbye and shaking hands with the meatheads behind us and all was good.
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I read on a PSU board that one of our fans smashed an opposing fans windsheild during a tailgate at one of the home games. Makes me so mad that people give my team a bad rep because of some dumbass. It's every major team who has these types of fans though, for the most part it's all good and fun (good natured jokes and whatnot are part of the sport of being a fan IMO) but it just sucks there's always one drunk dumbass who goes too far.
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Here's something I don't get. Why is it illegal to film another team's sideline during a game? There are dozens of cameras filming. It's on national television. Over 60k people are watching. Coaches get access to all sorts of game footage, like the All 22 stuff we see on YT, which will necessarily include sidelines. During a practice or a workout I can totally see the problem. There can't be any expectation of privacy during a game, though. And do all visual representations count? Can you hire a courtroom sketch artist to crank out drawings of the sideline? What if a guy with binoculars just takes really detailed notes? What about hiring people to do descriptive audio like they do for movies?
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Here's something I don't get. Why is it illegal to film another team's sideline during a game? There are dozens of cameras filming. It's on national television. Over 60k people are watching. Coaches get access to all sorts of game footage, like the All 22 stuff we see on YT, which will necessarily include sidelines. During a practice or a workout I can totally see the problem. There can't be any expectation of privacy during a game, though. And do all visual representations count? Can you hire a courtroom sketch artist to crank out drawings of the sideline? What if a guy with binoculars just takes really detailed notes? What about hiring people to do descriptive audio like they do for movies?
I don't have a good answer for those questions, but considering the reputation they have already, this is a really bad look for the Patriots organization as a whole.
Do I think that every team will do whatever it can to gain a competitive advantage, even if that means crossing the line between what's allowed and what's not? Absolutely. NFL history is loaded with examples of teams that have done it.
"Other teams do stuff, too, but the focus is only on the Patriots because people are haters" seems to be the narrative some love to spin, but I don't think it's that simple. They often seem to go past the line far more than most other teams.
And, like it or not, stuff like this is why some will never call either Brady or Belichick the GOAT. Aside from a tiny amount of irrational (legit) haters, most don't think either is great because of cheating, but it's hard to not wonder if spying or cheating or whatever you want to call it, had a hand in more than just a few of those Super Bowl titles (all of which were narrow wins, so you could argue that a little extra cheating made just enough different to affect the outcomes).
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Here's something I don't get. Why is it illegal to film another team's sideline during a game? There are dozens of cameras filming. It's on national television. Over 60k people are watching. Coaches get access to all sorts of game footage, like the All 22 stuff we see on YT, which will necessarily include sidelines. During a practice or a workout I can totally see the problem. There can't be any expectation of privacy during a game, though. And do all visual representations count? Can you hire a courtroom sketch artist to crank out drawings of the sideline? What if a guy with binoculars just takes really detailed notes? What about hiring people to do descriptive audio like they do for movies?
I don't have a good answer for those questions, but considering the reputation they have already, this is a really bad look for the Patriots organization as a whole.
Do I think that every team will do whatever it can to gain a competitive advantage, even if that means crossing the line between what's allowed and what's not? Absolutely. NFL history is loaded with examples of teams that have done it.
For what it's worth, I suspect the NFL is going to review the video and determine that it's exactly what the Patriots organization says it is. Some documentary film crew shooting footage that nobody would have seen for quite a while and completely unrelated to the football side of things. It'll then levy ridiculous fines and sanctions against NE anyway. The general public made their minds up as soon as the story broke, for exactly the reasons you gave.
Personally, I'm just wondering why this is a thing in the first place.
"Other teams do stuff, too, but the focus is only on the Patriots because people are haters" seems to be the narrative some love to spin, but I don't think it's that simple. They often seem to go past the line far more than most other teams.
Yeah, not really. NE has Spygate and the normal number of PED suspensions. That's about it. Were it not for their success nobody would have paid any attention to the Spygate thing, and all other "controversies" stem from that.
And, like it or not, stuff like this is why some will never call either Brady or Belichick the GOAT. Aside from a tiny amount of irrational (legit) haters, most don't think either is great because of cheating, but it's hard to not wonder if spying or cheating or whatever you want to call it, had a hand in more than just a few of those Super Bowl titles (all of which were narrow wins, so you could argue that a little extra cheating made just enough different to affect the outcomes).
The cloud might hang over Belichick. Not Brady, though. And the people who matter know that the spygate thing doesn't really factor into just how good he is. Hell, the "victims" of Spygate will be the first to tell you that.
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Let's put some blame on Kraft how does these videos for the Patriots website. Knowing the past of this team, you'd think they'd have strict rules on what to videotape in an opposing stadium.
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Here's something I don't get. Why is it illegal to film another team's sideline during a game? There are dozens of cameras filming. It's on national television. Over 60k people are watching. Coaches get access to all sorts of game footage, like the All 22 stuff we see on YT, which will necessarily include sidelines. During a practice or a workout I can totally see the problem. There can't be any expectation of privacy during a game, though. And do all visual representations count? Can you hire a courtroom sketch artist to crank out drawings of the sideline? What if a guy with binoculars just takes really detailed notes? What about hiring people to do descriptive audio like they do for movies?
I don't have a good answer for those questions, but considering the reputation they have already, this is a really bad look for the Patriots organization as a whole.
Do I think that every team will do whatever it can to gain a competitive advantage, even if that means crossing the line between what's allowed and what's not? Absolutely. NFL history is loaded with examples of teams that have done it.
"Other teams do stuff, too, but the focus is only on the Patriots because people are haters" seems to be the narrative some love to spin, but I don't think it's that simple. They often seem to go past the line far more than most other teams.
And, like it or not, stuff like this is why some will never call either Brady or Belichick the GOAT. Aside from a tiny amount of irrational (legit) haters, most don't think either is great because of cheating, but it's hard to not wonder if spying or cheating or whatever you want to call it, had a hand in more than just a few of those Super Bowl titles (all of which were narrow wins, so you could argue that a little extra cheating made just enough different to affect the outcomes).
Given that I understand I have a different view of "rules"*, I think this is all just describing interpretive behavior that exists in all facets of American life these days. Mike Portnoy said it, therefore he MUST be bitter, regretting his decision, and busting LaBries's balls. Trump MUST be guilty, because, well, Trump. A big corporation filed a lawsuit? Who are they trying to screw over now!?! The Patriots won again? They MUST be cheating!
The facts are still the facts, at the end of the day. The ball has to be snapped, thrown, and caught, the ball has to be snapped, handed off and ran, the ball has to be snapped, held and kicked. No film changes that, no air pump changes that, no sideline spies change that.
* I think "rules" establish the lines at which there are consequences, that's all. If you are willing to endure the consequences, or if the consequences are less of a price than you're feeling you're gaining from the rule breaking, you're obligated to break them, with the only morals being those where someone gets hurt or injured.
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The question no one seems to be asking is "Why Cincinnati?" If you're willing to gain an unfair advantage are the Bengals really where you play that card? Aside from sucking, they'd probably give their entire gameplan if you asked nicely. They don't event want to win at this point.
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Scott Van Pelt said that very thing last night after the game. He embellished, of course, making it about Belichick ("Do you honestly believe that Bill Belichick didn't feel the need to tape the Houston Texans, the Baltimore Ravens, or the Kansas City Chiefs, but opted to tarnish his image with the one-win Cincinatti Bengals?" or something similar).
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And how exactly do we know those other teams weren’t being filmed in some way? Like the thread title on the Jets forum, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . .
If they get enough dirt I wonder if they would be so bold as to start stripping titles? As a fan of the team victimized by spygate, I would support that. :biggrin:
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The facts are still the facts, at the end of the day. The ball has to be snapped, thrown, and caught, the ball has to be snapped, handed off and ran, the ball has to be snapped, held and kicked. No film changes that, no air pump changes that, no sideline spies change that.
That's a nice black and white way of looking at it, but we all know the details matter. Coaching matters. Preparation matters.
The question no one seems to be asking is "Why Cincinnati?" If you're willing to gain an unfair advantage are the Bengals really where you play that card? Aside from sucking, they'd probably give their entire gameplan if you asked nicely. They don't event want to win at this point.
Yep, that would be like John Petrucci going to Mike Stone for guitar lessons.
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Wow, now THAT was a pretty deep cut. :clap:
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The question no one seems to be asking is "Why Cincinnati?"
I went to lunch with a friend today and he mentioned the new controversy surrounding the Pats (btw, he's not even a football fan). I immediately said, yeah but why the Bengals? The whole thing really doesn't make any sense.
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I think the Pats are ok. (https://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/)
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People don't see that. They hate who is great.
I've been on the other side. I get it.
I still want to cock walk though. Lol
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I think the Pats are ok. (https://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/)
I didn't realize Michael Hurley wrote for Your Team Cheats. :lol
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:lol
You've never been on that site Tim?
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That site is a Patriots fan's wet dream. :lol :lol
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That site is a Patriots fan's wet dream. :lol :lol
That's cause your team cheated more.
Lololololol :biggrin:
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:lol
You've never been on that site Tim?
I've heard it referenced on the radio, but I've honestly never clicked on it.
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Another notch in the "Tim was buried in a Time Machine" for a decade +. :lol
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Hah!
There's only so much time in the day! :lol
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The question no one seems to be asking is "Why Cincinnati?" If you're willing to gain an unfair advantage are the Bengals really where you play that card? Aside from sucking, they'd probably give their entire gameplan if you asked nicely. They don't event want to win at this point.
Yep, that would be like John Petrucci going to Mike Stone for guitar lessons.
That wins the internet for the month!
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as a general proposition, in my experience meathead behavior in New England/New York/Philly is that it has to be responded to correctly. It IS largely good-natured - not always, but largely - and will stay that way if you accept it as such. The people that get into trouble quickest seem to be those that don't see it for what it is and try to make it out to be more than it is.
Yeah, I buy that, to a certain extent.
I remember going to my first game at Fenway - we were in Boston to undergo some testing for his "new" arthritis - and like a dick - sue me, I was not quite ten at the time - I wore a Yankees jersey. My dad got soaked by beer for most of the first couple of innings and endured a fair amount of verbal abuse.
WTF Stadler, that's not good-natured. That's being an asshole.
However, I feel I understand you a little better now. :biggrin:
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Yeah, exactly what Hef said. Just because they high-fived at the end doesn't excuse their abusive behavior earlier.
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Verbal abuse is fine. Soaking with beer is way over the line. Popcorn and peanuts are probably the cutoff point for things that can be thrown at a visiting fan.
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I don't condone verbal abuse or throwing things. That's just totally childish. One can engage in trash talk without getting personal, but even that is borderline childish. Just leave the opposition alone and mind your own goddamn business. :lol
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Verbal abuse no. Fun banter? Hell yeah. Throwing anything. Big no no.
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Looks like one of Drew Rosenhaus' interns accidentally gave Antonio Brown his Twitter password back and he is ranting like a nut job this morning.
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Looks like one of Drew Rosenhaus' interns accidentally gave Antonio Brown his Twitter password back and he is ranting like a nut job this morning.
Rosenhaus Productions.
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Looks like one of Drew Rosenhaus' interns accidentally gave Antonio Brown his Twitter password back and he is ranting like a nut job this morning.
Saw them. Lol
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" Hey Dude , who are you and what are you filming ? ". " Hey Bro , I'll destroy the footage ". " Dude , I only asked who you are and what are you filming ". Dude was quick to offer to destroy the footage . Why would that be your first reaction if you are on the level man ?
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" Hey Dude , who are you and what are you filming ? ". " Hey Bro , I'll destroy the footage ". " Dude , I only asked who you are and what are you filming ". Dude was quick to offer to destroy the footage . Why would that be your first reaction if you are on the level man ?
Yup, perfectly non-suspicious reaction.
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" Hey Dude , who are you and what are you filming ? ". " Hey Bro , I'll destroy the footage ". " Dude , I only asked who you are and what are you filming ". Dude was quick to offer to destroy the footage . Why would that be your first reaction if you are on the level man ?
Yup, perfectly non-suspicious reaction.
It IS a perfectly non-suspicious reaction: "This is so NOT 'football intelligence' it's b-roll. Wipe it if it bothers you so much."
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"My God, how are we possibly going to beat the Bengals? Hell, we only had to face Jackson and Prescott before, but now. . . I know, we'll tape their signals! And it has to be from a restricted area or otherwise it won't help!"
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But he was hiding in a Boston Bruins sweatshirt!
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Aside from being baffled as to why this is even a thing, it's even more bewildering that, much like Spygate I, what they're doing is perfectly acceptable so long as they're doing it in a different location. Every team videotapes every game from multiple angles. Often times even from the wrong angle, which just gets ignored because it's a meaningless infraction. There's a long list of teams that have gotten nabbed filming from non-designated places, and security just tells them to move on along.
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That last throw to Brown (I think) was a beaut.
In unrelated news, Lamar Jackson has been announced as the new Joker, will coach the U.S. Olympic basketball team in Tokyo, and is writing an album with the Van Halen brothers.
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Really cool, in-depth lookback at the Saints' onside kick in the SB 10 years ago: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28261593/inside-nfl-gutsiest-playcall-saints-super-bowl-xliv-onside-kick
That play made me SO mad at the time! :lol I have to admit, it gave me great satisfaction this last week when Shanahan stole one of Payton's own plays and used it for a quick touchdown.
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Tough game for Drew Lock today, but tough for your 3rd start in the NFL to be in that kind of snow. Hoping he finishes well the last two games.
LOL at the Cleveland Browns (which is an annual thing).
How schizo are the Rams? They get back in the playoff race the last few weeks, and then completely lay an egg against Dallas today.
Lastly, major LOL at the Raiders. Their last game ever in Oakland and they lose...to the Jags. :eek :eek :rollin :rollin
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That last throw to Brown (I think) was a beaut.
In unrelated news, Lamar Jackson has been announced as the new Joker, will coach the U.S. Olympic basketball team in Tokyo, and is writing an album with the Van Halen brothers.
And has people whining in Charm City to have the ST coach fired (ranked 2nd in the league before Thursday night), re-sign T-Sizzle, and fix all the problems due to a 21 point victory. Yes, victory.
gotta tell ya...in all my decades of watching this game.........I've never encountered a couple weeks, much less a season, of all the topsy- turvyness this kid has wrought. And, it has been a sheer delight to see every play.
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Was happy to see Eli get the standing ovation today. I couldn't care about beating down the Dolphins, but really happy to see Eli probably end his career in a good way and being shown respect from the fans.
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Atlanta scores a big upset in SF and the NFC playoff picture just got a lot more interesting. SF now will have to win at Seattle in Week 17 to win the NFC West no matter what happens next week (barring a tie somewhere).
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Was happy to see Eli get the standing ovation today. I couldn't care about beating down the Dolphins, but really happy to see Eli probably end his career in a good way and being shown respect from the fans.
That was really cool to watch, wasn't it? He's usually a pretty stoic guy (that's been one of the criticisms against him) but you could see the pride and happiness in his eyes. I loved it.
Someone - might have been Nate Burleson, but please don't quote me on that - had a good point: when he or the team did well, he always gave the praise to the other guys, and when he or the team did poorly, he always took the blame. I don't know if that's strictly true, but in my experience it seems to be.
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Rams fall apart in the big D. Raiders can't even beat a nothing team in their last game in Oakland. All my hope is in the Seahawks now.
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Second week in a row; nailed the 1:00 games, and would have done better with a dart and dart board on the 4:00 games.
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2867293-seahawks-josh-gordon-suspended-indefinitely-for-ped-substance-abuse-violations?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral
Really sorry to see this. The first time or two somebody does this I'm content to simply call them a knucklehead and leave it at that. There comes a point where it's clear that somebody's got a real problem, though, and I'm sympathetic. Gordon definitely seems to have a bigger problem than just being a dumbass. Seems the only time the guy can really stay in line is when he's trying to get back into the game. Hopefully that remains an option.
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The report said he is suspended indefinitely.. That is too bad, he was doing good as a Seahawk.
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Bold prediction.
Saints / Ravens in the SB. Ravens win.
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The report said he is suspended indefinitely.. That is too bad, he was doing good as a Seahawk.
Part of me wants to blame the Seahawks for not keeping close enough tabs on him, but it happened with NE, too. Really, you've got two good organizations and two exceptional coaches who've been unable to keep the guy in check. It really does seem like the only time he flies right is when he's suspended with a chance to return. Indefinitely means just that.
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Bold prediction: Ravens do not make the Super Bowl.
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Browns over Eagles.
You heard it here first (and probably last)! ;D
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Bold prediction: Ravens do not make the Super Bowl.
Who's going to knock them off? Buffalo is not going there and winning. Neither is NE. It can only be KC, and that'll be after beating NE in Foxboro.
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Nice to see Brees get the TD record - and single game comp % record. Afterward I checked the Patriots fans forum and predictably there was a thread about how much Brees sucks. This is not to be confused with the threads about how Peyton Manning sucked and how Aaron Rodgers sucks. Incredibly paranoid and thin-skinned forum; if any QB other than Brady ever gets praised for any accomplishment they become incensed :lol. Of course they compare Brees' and Brady's playoff records and conveniently ignore the vast difference in the quality of the defenses behind them. Just ignore the noise folks, Brees has been absolutely awesome and is an all-time great.
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Bold prediction: Ravens do not make the Super Bowl.
Who's going to knock them off? Buffalo is not going there and winning. Neither is NE. It can only be KC, and that'll be after beating NE in Foxboro.
Buffalo or NE could go there and beat them. This is a team built entirely around one player. You find a way to beat him, or he has a bad game, and BAL is very beatable. I'm not suggesting that it will happen, or even that it's likely, but simply that BAL isn't unbeatable and a good defense is what will make it happen.
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NE has been struggling, but I think I'd put both them and KC ahead of Baltimore to make the superbowl and that's due to experience. I wouldn't be surprised just as EB is saying, one bad game in the spotlight by Lamar and they can be beat. I know BB can plan this, not sold on Reid being able to, but I think KC is really good and certainly has the talent and had their year of experience last year. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Baltimore made it, I just can see a hiccup happening in the playoffs due to inexperience.
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Nice to see Brees get the TD record - and single game comp % record. Afterward I checked the Patriots fans forum and predictably there was a thread about how much Brees sucks. This is not to be confused with the threads about how Peyton Manning sucked and how Aaron Rodgers sucks. Incredibly paranoid and thin-skinned forum; if any QB other than Brady ever gets praised for any accomplishment they become incensed :lol. Of course they compare Brees' and Brady's playoff records and conveniently ignore the vast difference in the quality of the defenses behind them. Just ignore the noise folks, Brees has been absolutely awesome and is an all-time great.
Were you beat up in high school by someone wearing a Patriot jersey or something? Did someone named "Brady"hit on your girl at a school dance? ;)
Any opportunity to shit on the Pats. Predicable as an AC/DC record.
Pats fan here, and Brees is one of the best QBs to ever play the game, period. Guy's amazing.
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I like Brees. I do think playing in a dome has helped his numbers though. It's Payton I think is overrated. Up until last year, the two of them averaged a 9-7 season. I think now it's up to 10-6, with 1 SB appearance and 3 CG appearances.
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Bold prediction: Ravens do not make the Super Bowl.
Who's going to knock them off? Buffalo is not going there and winning. Neither is NE. It can only be KC, and that'll be after beating NE in Foxboro.
Buffalo or NE could go there and beat them. This is a team built entirely around one player. You find a way to beat him, or he has a bad game, and BAL is very beatable. I'm not suggesting that it will happen, or even that it's likely, but simply that BAL isn't unbeatable and a good defense is what will make it happen.
Pretty much this. I like Jackson, and I like Harbaugh (a lot, actually) but as great as Lamar Jackson is, he will not be the first "great" player that was stymied for 60 minutes - and that's all that it takes - in a playoff game. Most recently, Patrick Mahomes II (by the Pats), Cam Newton (by the Broncos), Brees (by the Rams)...
Buffalo just played Baltimore pretty well. I'm not suggesting that they're not one of the best teams in the league. I'm suggesting that "any given Sunday".
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NE has been struggling, but I think I'd put both them and KC ahead of Baltimore to make the superbowl and that's due to experience. I wouldn't be surprised just as EB is saying, one bad game in the spotlight by Lamar and they can be beat. I know BB can plan this, not sold on Reid being able to, but I think KC is really good and certainly has the talent and had their year of experience last year. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Baltimore made it, I just can see a hiccup happening in the playoffs due to inexperience.
I wouldn't go so far as to put them ahead of KC and Baltimore. I just wouldn't rule them out. And Belichick can certainly craft a plan to take Jackson out of the game. They'll just have to execute, unlike how they did in their first matchup. While most saw it as the death knell for NE, I came away half way optimistic. NE made a bunch of stupid, uncharacteristic mistakes, essentially beating themselves. Otherwise they were halfway competitive. My money would probably still be on BAL, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the playoffs roll around and somebody schools them.
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Brees (by the Refs)...
Fixed that for you :lol
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Triple header this Saturday! :2metal:
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Cowherd had an excellent point today as to why Russell Wilson is more valuable than Lamar Jackson: the Ravens have 12 Pro Bowlers; the Seahawks have two.
Now, I get that the Pro Bowl nominations are not the end-all, be-all, and it's funny seeing people lose their minds over Pro Bowl snubs, but it is very easy to argue that Wilson has been the most valuable player to his team this season. He has one player considered great enough to make the Pro Bowl this season (besides himself), yet he has the Seahawks at 11-3 and currently the 1 seed in the NFC, the much tougher conference.
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...OR Bobby Wagner can rightly say that he is the rightful MVP when he has carried his team to 11-3 and the #1 seed in the NFC, the much tougher conference, when only having one other player considered great enough to make the Pro Bowl this season.
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LOL, there is that argument as well.
I honestly think the 49ers will go into Seattle Week 17 and win the game to take back the division, but it won't be easy, especially since that will likely be the game that is flexed to Sunday night in Week 17, and Seattle usually plays really well in home night games, especially when they start pumping in that crowd noise and persuading refs to call interceptions touchdowns. :P
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Depends on whether they can overcome the injuries. It is ridiculous how many starters they have had go out this season, and it really caught up to them last week. I don't know if they have the most injury-depleted roster in the league, but I'm sure they have the most depleted roster among playoff contenders. But they are going to get some guys back in the not-too-distant future, so we'll see what happens.
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LOL, there is that argument as well.
I honestly think the 49ers will go into Seattle Week 17 and win the game to take back the division, but it won't be easy, especially since that will likely be the game that is flexed to Sunday night in Week 17, and Seattle usually plays really well in home night games, especially when they start pumping in that crowd noise and persuading refs to call interceptions touchdowns. :P
I don't think there are night games in wk 17s. All Sunday afternoon games.
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LOL, there is that argument as well.
I honestly think the 49ers will go into Seattle Week 17 and win the game to take back the division, but it won't be easy, especially since that will likely be the game that is flexed to Sunday night in Week 17, and Seattle usually plays really well in home night games, especially when they start pumping in that crowd noise and persuading refs to call interceptions touchdowns. :P
I don't think there are night games in wk 17s. All Sunday afternoon games.
You are correct (and no Thursday or Monday games either). Most of the games start at 10 a.m. Three games (Raiders @ Broncoes, Cards @ Rams and 49ers @ Seahawks) start at 1:25 p.m. Sadly for me, I'm likely to get stuck with having to watch the Cards/Rams game.
http://www.nfl.com/schedules/2019/REG17
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We won't know until this Sunday or Monday which game will be flexed for the final week....
https://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/which-nfl-game-will-be-flexed-into-primetime-in-week-17.html
https://www.sentinelsource.com/sports/national/nfl-flex-scheduling-which-games-will-get-moved-to-sunday/article_eedffcf0-5a95-5821-bff9-c557ebdd04fc.html
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Correct. It looks like they have the option to not flex anything if there are no games where both teams have playoff implications, but if there is, they will flex it.
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3 things I get giddy thinking about reading in December every year:
1) How the Grinch Stole Christmas
2) A Christmas Carol
3) The NFL Playoff tiebreaker procedures
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Depends on whether they can overcome the injuries. It is ridiculous how many starters they have had go out this season, and it really caught up to them last week. I don't know if they have the most injury-depleted roster in the league, but I'm sure they have the most depleted roster among playoff contenders. But they are going to get some guys back in the not-too-distant future, so we'll see what happens.
I know they're getting Sherman back for the play-offs. I bet Sherman is gonna want to play against the Seahawks in week 17 though. Seahawks are banged up too, Rishaad Penny is out for the season, their center is out for the time being, also Bobby Wagner is questionable with a ankle injury. Their starting corner is out too. It should be a good game though, it will be close.
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So, that's four starters missing for the Seahawks. The 49ers are missing close to 1/2 their starting lineup in all three phases of the game.
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LOL, there is that argument as well.
I honestly think the 49ers will go into Seattle Week 17 and win the game to take back the division, but it won't be easy, especially since that will likely be the game that is flexed to Sunday night in Week 17, and Seattle usually plays really well in home night games, especially when they start pumping in that crowd noise and persuading refs to call interceptions touchdowns. :P
I don't think there are night games in wk 17s. All Sunday afternoon games.
You are correct (and no Thursday or Monday games either). Most of the games start at 10 a.m. Three games (Raiders @ Broncoes, Cards @ Rams and 49ers @ Seahawks) start at 1:25 p.m. Sadly for me, I'm likely to get stuck with having to watch the Cards/Rams game.
http://www.nfl.com/schedules/2019/REG17
You're weird. It's 1:00 and 4:25, everyone knows that.
(I'm kidding; when I lived in Burbank the absolute BEST THING was waking up Sunday morning, making coffee and some breakfast, and sitting down to watch football. Likewise, coming home from work and making dinner with the MNF game on.)
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So, how likely to people think it is that we'll have an 8-8 division winner in the NFC East? I was kinda hoping we'd get a 7-9 winner. But unless I'm missing something, that's no longer possible with the way the schedule shakes out the last two weeks.
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(I'm kidding; when I lived in Burbank the absolute BEST THING was waking up Sunday morning, making coffee and some breakfast, and sitting down to watch football. Likewise, coming home from work and making dinner with the MNF game on.)
It's one reason I could never live in the eastern time zone. Games not starting until 1 p.m. is weird, but evening games (football, regular season baseball in the Pacific time zone and playoff baseball) being scheduled so that they don't end until well after midnight would suck hard.
So, how likely to people think it is that we'll have an 8-8 division winner in the NFC East? I was kinda hoping we'd get a 7-9 winner. But unless I'm missing something, that's no longer possible with the way the schedule shakes out the last two weeks.
The best/worst you can hope for is a tie in the Cowboys v. Eagles game and that both teams lose their week 17 games, in which case they'd both finish 7-8-1 (and Dallas would win the division). That said, I think an 8-8 division winner is as likely as the winner of this weekend's game also winning in week 17. The game this weekend is in Philly, which gives the Eagles a bit of an advantage, but the Eagles play at New York in week 17, and the Cowboys are home to the Redskins. If you just assume the home teams win all three games, then Dallas and Philly both finish at 8-8, and Dallas wins the division.
Remember that none of this is unprecedented. As Steelers fans will remember, Denver won the AFC West in 2011 with an 8-8 record. Carolina won the NFC South in 2014 with a 7-8-1 record, and the Suckhawks won the NFC west in 2010 with a 7-9 record.
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This is turning into an excellent playoff hunt. Right now 9/12 playoff teams are 10-4 or better and we'll see some good H2Hs the next two weeks.
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I have not paying that much attention to this 100 greatest players thing the NFL is doing, but I did like seeing that neither Terrell Owens nor Cris Carter were chosen as one of the 10 wide receivers.
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I am casually following it. I am not a football historian, so cannot really comment on anything pre-1980s, and don't want to get in to snubs. But I am a little shocked Jerry Kramer did not make the list. I always thought he was considered one of the best ever at that position.
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Am I the only one that wants to see the Bills completely stomp the Patriots?
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I have not paying that much attention to this 100 greatest players thing the NFL is doing, but I did like seeing that neither Terrell Owens nor Cris Carter were chosen as one of the 10 wide receivers.
WR they went heavier than usual with the oldtimers. Only five came from what we consider the modern era. That seems odd to me, and a couple of the old guys I'd never even heard of. That said, WR is probably the biggest talent pool of any position, so there are going to be some snubs.
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Am I the only one that wants to see the Bills completely stomp the Patriots?
I would eat the Cincinnati footage if Dream Team wasn't right there with you. :)
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I have not paying that much attention to this 100 greatest players thing the NFL is doing, but I did like seeing that neither Terrell Owens nor Cris Carter were chosen as one of the 10 wide receivers.
WR they went heavier than usual with the oldtimers. Only five came from what we consider the modern era. That seems odd to me, and a couple of the old guys I'd never even heard of. That said, WR is probably the biggest talent pool of any position, so there are going to be some snubs.
Most of those are good; Paul Warfield is certainly worthy. The only one I might question is Lance Alworth. Great, but maybe not top ten of all time great. Lynn Swann? Andre Reed? Sterling Sharpe? Calvin Johnson? I'd take Chris Carter, but not Terrell Owens. Great ATHLETE, not a great RECEIVER, if you're asking me.
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FYI, as someone that picked Houston, I LOVE Jameis Winston.
I can't believe that's Bruce Arians' first choice to lead his club. He DOES NOT help your team; he taxes his defense with his turnovers. They (the D) played very very well today. That should have been worse.
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How's this for a new rule: Anytime somebody's doing some stupid end zone dance you're allowed to tackle him?
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How's this for a new rule: Anytime somebody's doing some stupid end zone dance you're allowed to tackle him?
I could get behind this! :tup
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How's this for a new rule: Anytime somebody's doing some stupid end zone dance you're allowed to tackle him?
That Bills TD drove you nuts giving it to the fans I'd bet.
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Damn...don't think I can take another close game by the Niners...and we're at Seattle next week with the division on the line. Fuck.
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I am sure injuries are not helping, but confidence in the 49ers defense cannot be high at all right now. It looked so good early in the season, but for the last eight weeks, it has not been very good, except in the GB and Balt games.
I suspect it won't take long for the NFL to flex that game against Seattle to next Sunday night since it will be for the division title, no matter what the Seahawks do today.
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Kev, nailed it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zG2D5nzm/Screenshot-20191222-140938-Twitter.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRDpsnnJ)
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Damn...don't think I can take another close game by the Niners...and we're at Seattle next week with the division on the line. Fuck.
Correction, it's the difference between the conference and the #5 seed.
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Just saw that as well. I am not enough of a fan to ever pay to go to a game, but is it not annoying at all to buy a ticket for a game, and then find out the time has been changed?
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Kev, nailed it.
Write down today's date, since I am sure it will be a while before you say that again. :P :lol
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I have not paying that much attention to this 100 greatest players thing the NFL is doing, but I did like seeing that neither Terrell Owens nor Cris Carter were chosen as one of the 10 wide receivers.
Haven't been following closely, but I have checked a few times to see who made it. The biggest snub to this point was the omission of Paul Krause. Dude is the NFL's all-time interception leader, as a safety, but he's not one of the top six safeties? Give me a break!
I can't argue with anyone on the WR list, but I don't remember who got excluded from the nominees.
How's this for a new rule: Anytime somebody's doing some stupid end zone dance you're allowed to tackle him?
I could get behind this! :tup
Ditto. Also when a defense runs 50 years to the end zone for a group photo. Just stop.
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I have not paying that much attention to this 100 greatest players thing the NFL is doing, but I did like seeing that neither Terrell Owens nor Cris Carter were chosen as one of the 10 wide receivers.
Haven't been following closely, but I have checked a few times to see who made it. The biggest snub to this point was the omission of Paul Krause. Dude is the NFL's all-time interception leader, as a safety, but he's not one of the top six safeties? Give me a break!
I can't argue with anyone on the WR list, but I don't remember who got excluded from the nominees.
Seems like most of the people picking these players are older, which explains why so many players from the pre-Super Bowl era are making it. I mean, how did 12 RB's make it and none of them were Marshall Faulk or L. Tomlinson?
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I have not paying that much attention to this 100 greatest players thing the NFL is doing, but I did like seeing that neither Terrell Owens nor Cris Carter were chosen as one of the 10 wide receivers.
Haven't been following closely, but I have checked a few times to see who made it. The biggest snub to this point was the omission of Paul Krause. Dude is the NFL's all-time interception leader, as a safety, but he's not one of the top six safeties? Give me a break!
I can't argue with anyone on the WR list, but I don't remember who got excluded from the nominees.
Seems like most of the people picking these players are older, which explains why so many players from the pre-Super Bowl era are making it. I mean, how did 12 RB's make it and none of them were Marshall Faulk or L. Tomlinson?
It seems to me like they went out of their way to ensure 20% of the players are pre-SB era (or something like that). With the RBs, I've never heard of "Dutch" Clark, and I always thought Steve Van Buren was a QB. I know Lenny Moore's name but nothing else, and Gale Sayers didn't have a long enough career to be there. That said, I don't buy into LT as a top 12 RB.
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It seems to me like they went out of their way to ensure 20% of the players are pre-SB era (or something like that). With the RBs, I've never heard of "Dutch" Clark, and I always thought Steve Van Buren was a QB. I know Lenny Moore's name but nothing else, and Gale Sayers didn't have a long enough career to be there. That said, I don't buy into LT as a top 12 QB.
Me neither, but I buy into him being a top 12 RB. :)
I almost shuddering at what QB's are gonna be on there. I think there are gonna be 10 and my guess is these 8 are a lock:
Otto Graham
Sammy Baugh
Johnny Unitas
Joe Montana
John Elway
Dan Marino
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
The last two will probably be two guys we've never heard of who played back in the 30's. :lol
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I'd really like the Giants to not win this. Chase Young would look great in blue next year. This season has been so bad that getting a top draft spot would make something positive out of it.
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It seems to me like they went out of their way to ensure 20% of the players are pre-SB era (or something like that). With the RBs, I've never heard of "Dutch" Clark, and I always thought Steve Van Buren was a QB. I know Lenny Moore's name but nothing else, and Gale Sayers didn't have a long enough career to be there. That said, I don't buy into LT as a top 12 QB.
Me neither, but I buy into him being a top 12 RB. :)
GAAAHHH!!!
I think you're right about the QBs. The other two will probably be guys like Sid Luckman and Bobby Layne.
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I think you're right about the QBs. The other two will probably be guys like Sid Luckman and Bobby Layne.
I will vomit if they put Joe Namath on there, but won't be surprised. I could see Staubach, Bradshaw, Aikman, Favre or Brees all having a shot as well. Not saying what players I would put, but who I think the committee will.
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Bert Jones .
Fine day in the NFL indeed. Get to knock the rust off the ole RG3 next week , yes indeed.
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Kev, nailed it.
Write down today's date, since I am sure it will be a while before you say that again. :P :lol
:lol
Btw, this is the first time me seeing the Broncos color rush 3rd uniforms. I don't like them at all.
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A little too much orange. :lol :lol
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Still not as bad as those Jets/Bills.
I think I had a seizure when I turned on that game.
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Looks like SF is the 1 seed if they win next week no matter what. New Orleans would then need to win and hope GB loses one of their last two to get the 2 seed. If SF, GB and NO all end up 13-3, SF is the 1, GB the 2 and NO the 3.
If Seattle wins next week, GB can get the 1 seed by winning tomorrow and next week.
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With Brees topping the TD passing list, and Brady reaching Manning, I was curious and checked out the all-time list.
I am barely old enough to remember when Marino passed Tarkenton (who had the record for a while), but do recall him retiring with 420 (surpassing Tarkenton by nearly 80 TDs). That was almost one of those sports numbers you just knew, like Aaron's 755 HRs or Maris' 61, records that would stand for a long, long time.
Since then 8 other people have passed Tarkenton, and 4 have passed Marino, all of those 4 by 80+ TDs.
Going down the list and seeing some names I would never think fall where they do, Philip Rivers is #6, Testeverde is #16, and Dave Krieg is #18.
Not really going anywhere with this. I just like looking at these kinds of stats.
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I remember when John Elway threw his 300th touchdown pass in the last regular season game in 1998, and it was a big deal since he was only the 3rd QB to hit the 300 mark. He is now 12th on the list for most TD passes ever.
Funny thing about that TD pass, too, is was on a goal-to-go play from the 1, and instead of giving it to Terrell Davis for the sure TD, which was the norm that year, Shanny called for a pass. I would bet my life savings that Shanny knew that Elway was going to retire, was on 299, and wanted him to get to 300 that day. Same thing with the Super Bowl a month later when the fullback Howard Griffith got two 1-yard touchdowns and then Elway scored on a draw from like the 2 in the 4th quarter. I suspect Shanny called those plays because he wanted Elway to be the MVP of the game, and he knew that if Davis had 2-3 touchdowns to go along with his 100+ yards from scrimmage, he'd get it.
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Kinda like when Pete Carroll wanted Wilson to get the SB49 MVP instead of Lynch so called a pass play on the 1 at the end of the game? :justjen
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I never bought that narrative, and still don't. People love to forget that Marshawn Lynch wasn't very good that year in short yardage situations. Unlike Terrell Davis, the Hall of Famer, who was a beast. :metal :metal
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It is a theory here that, while not wholly embraced, never seems to die. :)
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I love it when week 17 has some rarified stakes. It is unusual for a TON to be up in the air. But for a week 17, this isn't a bad year. Some stray observations:
NFC: Yeah, the teams may be set (other than the NFC east). But the outcome of the SF/Seattle game is going to completely shake up the seedings for the 1, 2, 3, and 5.
And speaking of the NFC east, that division is still up for grabs.
AFC: The division winners and the Bills are set. But the wildcard race is still fun. This is one of the more interesting ones I've seen in that the Raiders need, I think, 5 variables to ALL fall their way to get in, and yet, that scenario is entirely plausible. If I remember correctly, they need all of the following to happen:
-Raiders beat Broncos: Not unlikely.
-Ravens beat Steelers: Pretty likely.
-Colts beat Jaguars: Pretty likely.
-Browns beat Bengals: Pretty likely.
-Texans beat Titans: Not unlikely. But this is probably the biggest challenge in the bunch, simply because the Texans have their division title and seeding locked up and will likely rest their starters, while the Titans are pretty hot (despite the loss to the Saints) and probably feeling like they are in "must win" mode. I think the Titans are the clear favorite for the #6 spot. But it's interesting that both the Raiders and Steelers have very plausible paths.
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Local sports radio and some insiders are claiming that Marshawn will be flying into Seattle to talk to the Seahawks.
:corn:
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Just saw that. Of course when your #1 and #2 RBs are hurt and out, and your #3 (and last) guy has 8 rushing attempts total, in his career, you might want to start making some calls.
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I have no idea whether he is still physically able to be much of a difference maker coming in cold without having taken a snap in a few seasons. But given their RB situation, just him coming in to provide leadership could make a difference.
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I have no idea whether he is still physically able to be much of a difference maker coming in cold without having taken a snap in a few seasons. But given their RB situation, just him coming in to provide leadership could make a difference.
Has it been a few? I thought he played last year? Not much, but thought he played a few games.
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Just looked it up. Yeah, I guess he did play 6 games last season. It just seems like forever since I heard his name.
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I think you're right about the QBs. The other two will probably be guys like Sid Luckman and Bobby Layne.
I will vomit if they put Joe Namath on there, but won't be surprised. I could see Staubach, Bradshaw, Aikman, Favre or Brees all having a shot as well. Not saying what players I would put, but who I think the committee will.
I'll join you in the vomiting if Namath makes it, but I don't think there's any chance. Bradshaw and Staubach are typically underrated. Aikman is slightly overrated. I don't think Brees will make it if for no reason other than that I don't think they'll pick two active players. Favre is the single most overrated player in NFL history. He doesn't belong anywhere near this list.
-Raiders beat Broncos: Not unlikely.
-Ravens beat Steelers: Pretty likely.
-Colts beat Jaguars: Pretty likely.
-Browns beat Bengals: Pretty likely.
The Broncos game is at Denver, and the Broncos have been surging with Lock at QB. To me, this makes it less likely that the Raiders will win.
Lamar Jackson isn't likely to play, so I think the Steelers game is up in the air.
The other two games between eliminated games are, in my mind, total pick 'em games.
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I will vomit if they put Joe Namath on there, but won't be surprised.
But he is BROADWAY JOE! He GUARANTEED a Jets win in SB3! He wears FUR COATS!
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-Raiders beat Broncos: Not unlikely.
-Ravens beat Steelers: Pretty likely.
-Colts beat Jaguars: Pretty likely.
-Browns beat Bengals: Pretty likely.
The Broncos game is at Denver, and the Broncos have been surging with Lock at QB. To me, this makes it less likely that the Raiders will win.
Lamar Jackson isn't likely to play, so I think the Steelers game is up in the air.
The other two games between eliminated games are, in my mind, total pick 'em games.
That's all fair. I'm just saying that I can't think of another time when a team needed help from so many other teams to make the playoffs, but such a convolluted scenario was actually as plausible as this year's Raiders team. None of those outcomes is a huge longshot, IMO.
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Local sports radio and some insiders are claiming that Marshawn will be flying into Seattle to talk to the Seahawks.
:corn:
Is he eligible to play this year? I thought we'd passed a cutoff point for retired players to sign with a team. I know Gronk's eligibility to return ended about a month ago.
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Local sports radio and some insiders are claiming that Marshawn will be flying into Seattle to talk to the Seahawks.
:corn:
Is he eligible to play this year? I thought we'd passed a cutoff point for retired players to sign with a team. I know Gronk's eligibility to return ended about a month ago.
You got me curious, so I just found this tidbit on ESPN’s article regarding the matter.
“Lynch has not filed retirement paperwork with the league, but he has not been linked with any team this season.”
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Gronk didn't file papers either.
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I wonder if they have certain exceptions in place if a team happens to be sufficiently depleted at a certain position
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No team was more depleted at TE than NE. :lol
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It looks to me like the distinction is that Marshawn is a free agent and Gronk is still under contract with the Patriots. Gronk would have had to file to be reinstated after missing most of the season. Since Lynch could have signed with anybody at any time he's still eligible.
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Makes sense.
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Ian Rappaport just tweeted that his source is saying that the physical went well.
You guys, when this first broke, I laughed because I thought there was absolutely NO WAY.
But in less than 12 hours, I have become convinced that Beast Mode will be in the house on Sunday. In other news, we also resigned Robert Turbin (former Seahawk and Marshawn's old backup). I didn't think this game could get more interesting, but this is absolutely going to be the game of the year.
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.....aaaaaaand Marshawn’s agent just tweeted that it’s a done deal.
That happened REALLY REALLY fast!!!
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I had a feeling it would happen once it broke they were talking, but damn yes that was crazy fast!
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Maybe the 9ers should resign Deion Sanders... :corn
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Maybe the 9ers should resign Deion Sanders... :corn
:lol
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Obviously a desperation move. But one that makes sense. Man is this weekend going to be interesting. 4 teams legitimately vying for the #1 seed in the NFC. 3 games will decide it. It's going to be a really fun football weekend.
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I can't imagine GB or NO losing (since the teams they are playing are arguably the two worst over the last month), so if we can assume for the sake of argument that they both win, if SF wins:
1. SF
2. GB
3. NO
4. NFC East winner
5. Sea
6. Minn
If Sea wins:
1. GB
2. NO
3. Sea
4. NFC East winner
5. SF
6. Minn
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I can't imagine GB or NO losing
I hear you. But just saying, nobody saw SF losing to Atlanta last week either, so you never know.
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Even with Beast Mode and Turbin, I'm still worried for the Seahawks. The 49ers are not going to be intimidated by players coming out of retirement or inactivity that are likely out of football shape. I hope I'm wrong, but Seattle's o-line got exposed during the Cardinals game and Russel Wilson had no protection. It will be hard for Lynch to find any openings to slip through. I am glad the game got moved to prime time this coming Sunday, the Seahawks seem to step up their game.
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Week 17 will answer a lot of questions. The complicated math will answer all the rest. Carry on my fellow football fans. :tup
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It's hilarious seeing dopes who obviously never saw John Elway play, bitch about him being named as one of the 10 greatest quarterbacks ever.
FYI, the 10 QB's who made that NFL 100 list are:
Sammy Baugh
Tom Brady
John Elway
Brett Favre
Otto Graham
Peyton Manning
Dan Marino
Joe Montana
Roger Staubach
Johnny Unitas
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^
Just those who like to hate debate for the sake of debating....
Heck, I'd take Favre out and insert either Bradshaw or Starr.
And Baugh would get my pick as best overall player ever (I am taking into account the era and segregation, just going by the numbers)
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Again I'm by no means a football historian but that list looks fine to me. Brees was the wildcard for me, considering just looking at stats he is at the top or near it in many categories. It's crazy to see when QBs like Baugh and Joe Namath have more INTs than TDs.
Moving the Seahawks/Niners game to SNF is interesting in that both teams will know exactly what they are playing for. If Saints and Packers both win as they should, Niners paying for a much bigger swing with either #1/bye or #5 at Philly/Dallas than Hawks playing for #3 hosting Vikings or #5 at Philly/Dallas.
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It's hilarious seeing dopes who obviously never saw John Elway play, bitch about him being named as one of the 10 greatest quarterbacks ever.
FYI, the 10 QB's who made that NFL 100 list are:
Sammy Baugh
Tom Brady
John Elway
Brett Favre
Otto Graham
Peyton Manning
Dan Marino
Joe Montana
Roger Staubach
Johnny Unitas
Johnny U was before my time but as a Baltimore Colts fan growing up I was always very aware of who he was and what he did on the field. And he was loyal to his fans in Baltimore above anything else. Dude had integrity above and beyond anything that we see these days.
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It's hilarious seeing dopes who obviously never saw John Elway play, bitch about him being named as one of the 10 greatest quarterbacks ever.
FYI, the 10 QB's who made that NFL 100 list are:
Sammy Baugh
Tom Brady
John Elway
Brett Favre
Otto Graham
Peyton Manning
Dan Marino
Joe Montana
Roger Staubach
Johnny Unitas
Seriously? "Dopes"? I saw Elway play, and a lot. I don't know that he's a lock to be on that list. I have Fran Tarkenton and Terry Bradshaw on there; I don't know who I remove, but Elway, Favre, and Marino are candidates.
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If you saw Elway play, then you are not a dope "who obviously never saw John Elway play."
As much as I like fantasy football, far too many people now think FF stats tell the tale as to who is better than who, without considering context, coaching, surrounding talent and a myriad of other factors.
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If you saw Elway play, then you are not a dope "who obviously never saw John Elway play."
As much as I like fantasy football, far too many people now think FF stats tell the tale as to who is better than who, without considering context, coaching, surrounding talent and a myriad of other factors.
Haha, okay. :). I would have thought the "dope" applied to the conclusion, but I'll take that (and he's certainly ONE of the greats, there's no denying.)
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Way to blow it Pat's. Poetic.
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Bad game for the Patriot's D to shit the bed.
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Besides the fact that NE losing their bye to Miami is awesome and hilarious, but I’m really happy for Ryan Fitzpatrick. Seems like a really cool dude who just goes with the flow but that guy is a gamer.
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Love my Dolphins. No tanking here. They are building a foundation with a new culture, and hopefully will build on it with good picks. Fitzmagic is fun to watch. Even better is my In Laws are from Boston and huge Pats fans.
I know it could all fall apart but I am very impressed with the Fins this year, and have hope for the future.
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I can’t believe I’m saying this, but thank you Miami!
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Seeing your responses tells me how spoiled we are in N.E.
It affects so many outside of N.E.
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Just finished watching on tape delay. Patriots WTF?? :facepalm:
That was pitiful.
Fucking El Barto carved up the Pats secondary. ;D
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El Barto's beard is better. No joke.
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The offense is just as much to blame. The defense only allowed 20 points on the day. That pick-6 Brady threw was awful and the difference in the game, but I know we can never blame him for anything... :P
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NE better get it together next week because the Titans can win if the offense and defense both play well in the same game. They have been inconsistent all year.
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Philly is trying like hell to blow the NFC East. Would almost be funny to see after the way they celebrated the win over Dallas last week, but seeing the Cowboys back into the playoffs would be gross.
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The offense is just as much to blame. The defense only allowed 20 points on the day. That pick-6 Brady threw was awful and the difference in the game, but I know we can never blame him for anything... :P
100% the whole season the blame pie leans to the offense.
NE better get it together next week because the Titans can win if the offense and defense both play well in the same game. They have been inconsistent all year.
Does it really matter. Going to KC or Ravens they will lose.
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Haven't posted in this thread much this year, but I would be remiss if I didn't acknowledge how proud I am of Carson Wentz and the Eagles. I know the division was trash, but considering how many people were injured this year for them to win 4 straight and make the playoffs for a 3rd straight year is a hell of an accomplishment.
Bring on the 49ers or Seahawks, and a long week of hearing how the Eagles will have no chance to win the game.
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Kitchens fired in Cleveland already.
Guess that means Baker Mayfield will get his 4th head coach to start his 3rd NFL season.
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The offense is just as much to blame. The defense only allowed 20 points on the day. That pick-6 Brady threw was awful and the difference in the game, but I know we can never blame him for anything... :P
Brady's entire first half was awful. I put the loss on the D, though. They could never make the stop when they needed to.
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Can't lean on one side El Barto when you expect to win it all every year.
Both are at fault. I know it's pre mature to say this but no bye, no home game in the second round with the offense not carrying their load spells doom this year.
It is what it is.
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Kitchens fired in Cleveland already.
Guess that means Baker Mayfield will get his 4th head coach to start his 3rd NFL season.
Damn. Did they even let him in the locker-room, or did they just sack him on the sideline and have him escorted out?
(When Ian Anderson wanted two members of Tull fired he had their manager sack them before boarding their flight home. "Hey, wait a minute now. This plane's for bandmembers only. )
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I didn't hear the details, but they should have twisted the knife by making him come back to Cleveland. :biggrin:
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SF up 10-0. If they win, I predict the schedule for next week will be:
Buffalo at Houston (late Saturday afternoon)
Seattle at Philly (Sat night)
Tennessee at New England (early Sunday afternoon)
Minnesota at New Orleans (late Sunday afternoon)
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Is their any surprise here? This is on the GM. You bring all these troubled, strong personalities and put that in the hands of a rookie Head couch?
It spelled disaster from the start.
Shows you how much the media is so f'ing dumb.
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SF up 10-0. If they win, I predict the schedule for next week will be:
Buffalo at Houston (late Saturday afternoon)
Seattle at Philly (Sat night)
Tennessee at New England (early Sunday afternoon)
Minnesota at New Orleans (late Sunday afternoon)
WTF, Mr. TV Exectutive? :lol
The Pats will get the prime time game Saturday night.
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I've been saying for several weeks that Seattle has not dominated a single game all season. In fact, I saw one fan post a stat that if all the single score games had gone the other way, Seattle would be 3-13....as if that was a good thing. They were trying to say how important it was to win the close games. But I honestly took it as Seattle just playing very weak all season, and winning on luck half the time.
I honestly believed that maybe bringing Lynch back would put some heart back into the team, and Seattle would play "over their heads" a bit tonight and at least make it interesting. But they just don't have the O-Line or the Defense this year.
We have a shot at beating Philly....maybe. But we will make a quick exit from the playoffs.
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Who cares really. It's wild card weekend. That's disappointing enough. When you hand it over on home field who gives a shit if it's afternoon or evening on the wild card weekend Tim?
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Seems like Houston always gets the late Saturday afternoon game on wild card weekend, so that is why I figure their game against Buffalo (a low draw team) will be there, and I doubt they'll have both AFC games on Saturday.
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Seems like Houston always gets the late Saturday afternoon game on wild card weekend, so that is why I figure their game against Buffalo (a low draw team) will be there, and I doubt they'll have both AFC games on Saturday.
I don't mean to sound like a New England dick, but there's no way the Pats don't get the Prime Time game. I can see the Philly game being early on Saturday.
And fucking LOLing at the Raiders and Cowboys. :rollin :rollin :rollin
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I don't mean to sound like a New England dick, but there's no way the Pats don't get the Prime Time game. I can see the Philly game being early on Saturday.
Remember the divisional round last year? The Patriots got the early Sunday game, not the Saturday prime time game. :corn
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Why is this even an issue? Who cares?
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Remember the divisional round last year? The Patriots got the early Sunday game, not the Saturday prime time game. :corn
How the fuck would I remember that? :lol
The Pats are still the biggest draw on Wild Card weekend.
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Why is this even an issue? Who cares?
Ask Tim. I made a prediction just for the fun of it, and he turned it into the silliness we are now seeing.
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It means nothing to me. Win or GTFO no matter what the start time.
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Why is this even an issue? Who cares?
Ask Tim. I made a prediction just for the fun of it, and he turned it into the silliness we are now seeing.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
Oh it's MY fault? :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Yes is it.
Go carriages!
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Helluva game. That was as close to a TD as you can get without scoring. Damn shame about the non-called mugging on the play before.
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That ended a lot closer than I thought it would. Congrats to the Niners.
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Watching the Suckhawks crap that one away with one of the stupidest delay of game penalties ever brings such a smile to my face.
That said, that was a great finish with an epic tackle on that last defensive play.
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Helluva game. That was as close to a TD as you can get without scoring. Damn shame about the non-called mugging on the play before.
I didn't see anything :\
Good lord my heart....just brutal...
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So Lynch ran it in for a TD from the 1 yard line. Who woulda thought that play call would be successful? :biggrin:
Just saw bits and pieces and the last 5 minutes or so. Definitely closer than I expected. Carroll likes to play to win in the 4th and that just doesn't work against good teams.
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So if Seattle and the Saints win, the Niners next game will be against Seattle. I really, really can't go through another one of these.
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So if Seattle and the Saints win, the Niners next game will be against Seattle. I really, really can't go through another one of these.
As much as I don't want to see that, I also think it's by far the most likely scenario.
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So if Seattle and the Saints win, the Niners next game will be against Seattle. I really, really can't go through another one of these.
As much as I don't want to see that, I also think it's by far the most likely scenario.
I do as well.
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Funny how quickly people have forgotten about that incredibly bad "unnecessary roughness" call that gave Seattle a chance they shouldn't have had in the first place. Personally, I'd love a rematch and love to see Seattle get completely destroyed next time.
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Seattle is running on fumes, and I predict they will lose at Philly next week. Russell Wilson almost pulled that game out of his magic hat last night, but came up a yard short. It looked to me like the Seattle receiver initiated the contact on that 2nd to last play of the game, so I was okay with there being no PI or defensive holding call there, but it probably should have at least been reviewed, but we know the NFL doesn't care about getting it right, so there ya go.
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The Panthers dumpster fire of a season (especially in the last 8 games) was mitigated a little by Christian McCaffrey becoming only the 3rd player in NFL history to joing the 1,000/1,000 club.
Hopefully rebuilding the team around him won't take too long and we can have a relevant team relatively soon.
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Seattle is running on fumes, and I predict they will lose at Philly next week. Russell Wilson almost pulled that game out of his magic hat last night, but came up a yard short. It looked to me like the Seattle receiver initiated the contact on that 2nd to last play of the game, so I was okay with there being no PI or defensive holding call there, but it probably should have at least been reviewed, but we know the NFL doesn't care about getting it right, so there ya go.
I don't wanna hear any BS about "the refs helping Seattle". That PI no call in the end zone cost us a freakin game winnin TD.
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Seattle is running on fumes, and I predict they will lose at Philly next week. Russell Wilson almost pulled that game out of his magic hat last night, but came up a yard short. It looked to me like the Seattle receiver initiated the contact on that 2nd to last play of the game, so I was okay with there being no PI or defensive holding call there, but it probably should have at least been reviewed, but we know the NFL doesn't care about getting it right, so there ya go.
I don't wanna hear any BS about "the refs helping Seattle". That PI no call in the end zone cost us a freakin game winnin TD.
I hear ya.
Crazy call. But we still gave a good game regardless. Now we have to get in gear.
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Personally, I'd love a rematch and love to see Seattle get completely destroyed next time.
But the other way around would be much better! :biggrin:
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Seems like Houston always gets the late Saturday afternoon game on wild card weekend, so that is why I figure their game against Buffalo (a low draw team) will be there, and I doubt they'll have both AFC games on Saturday.
Missed it by that much.
(and then a whole lot more)
Saturday, January 4
AFC: 4:35 PM (ET) Buffalo at Houston (ESPN, with simulcast on ABC)
AFC: 8:15 PM (ET) Tennessee at New England (CBS)
Sunday, January 5
NFC: 1:05 PM (ET) Minnesota at New Orleans (FOX)
NFC: 4:40 PM (ET) Seattle at Philadelphia (NBC)
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Haha, figures. I don't think they've ever done that before, having both AFC games on one day and then both NFC games the other, or maybe I am just old and cannot remember.
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I'm sorry, who's playing Saturday night? :lol
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I predict that New Orleans will be the only home team to win this weekend.
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Miami fires their OC?
Mc Daniels to Miami as OC/Asst HC and brings Brady to South Beach. ;D Gronk too!
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Haha, figures. I don't think they've ever done that before, having both AFC games on one day and then both NFC games the other, or maybe I am just old and cannot remember.
They did this after the 2015 season. Houston hosted K.C. in the Saturday afternoon game, and the Saturday night game was that Cincinnati/Pittsburgh fiasco.
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Miami fires their OC?
Mc Daniels to Miami as OC/Asst HC and brings Brady to South Beach. ;D Gronk too!
With Brady gone it's likely JMD doesn't stick around. I reckon TB12 is the only reason he came back two years ago. I know a lot of teams will be interested. Hell, Dallas might be one of them.
Looks like NE could be in for one helluva big rebuild. Honestly, I find it intriguing. I've been fascinated by how long Bill can keep the wheels on, and I'll be fascinated to see what he does when they finally come off, and that's looking fairly likely. Really, what concerns me about TB leaving isn't the loss of a QB, but the loss of an undisputed team leader. Belichick's management style isn't real appealing, and my hunch is that it's the older guys who can get the youngsters to buy into the system. There are others, McCourty, Hightower, Edelman, but TB was the big one. It'll also be harder to lure people into that kind of environment without the surety of being a SB contender. Savvy veterans aren't going to be flocking to them like they used to. Lastly, the timing kind of sucks since they'll likely loose a pick over that filming bullshit.
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I predict that New Orleans will be the only home team to win this weekend.
Aren't the Saints on the road this week?
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They did this after the 2015 season. Houston hosted K.C. in the Saturday afternoon game, and the Saturday night game was that Cincinnati/Pittsburgh fiasco.
Gotcha. Thanks for the reminder. :tup :tup
With Brady gone it's likely JMD doesn't stick around. I reckon TB12 is the only reason he came back two years ago. I know a lot of teams will be interested. Hell, Dallas might be one of them.
Looks like NE could be in for one helluva big rebuild. Honestly, I find it intriguing. I've been fascinated by how long Bill can keep the wheels on, and I'll be fascinated to see what he does when they finally come off, and that's looking fairly likely. Really, what concerns me about TB leaving isn't the loss of a QB, but the loss of an undisputed team leader. Belichick's management style isn't real appealing, and my hunch is that it's the older guys who can get the youngsters to buy into the system. There are others, McCourty, Hightower, Edelman, but TB was the big one. It'll also be harder to lure people into that kind of environment without the surety of being a SB contender. Savvy veterans aren't going to be flocking to them like they used to. Lastly, the timing kind of sucks since they'll likely loose a pick over that filming bullshit.
While there are major cracks and the end appears imminent, I am still not throwing dirt on their coffin until the coroner confirms it and tags their toe. :P
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I wonder if Kraft will get a good luck hummer this weekend.
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I wonder if Kraft will get a good luck hummer this weekend.
With his money he could literally murder someone in cold blood and beat the rap.
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Amazingly that case is still going on. The state is now threatening felony charges against him should they win their appeal of a lower court ruling, mostly for being a dick about the whole thing. Kraft, as it turns out, is fighting the good fight against state surveillance. Not only does his case have far greater implications than his handjob, but he could actually wind up fighting the USAPATRIOT Act the way things are going. (Gotta love the irony.)
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I wonder if Kraft will get a good luck hummer this weekend.
With his money he could literally murder someone in cold blood and beat the rap.
If that were the case, Goodell and a few owners would have left this earth.
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With Brady gone it's likely JMD doesn't stick around. I reckon TB12 is the only reason he came back two years ago. I know a lot of teams will be interested. Hell, Dallas might be one of them.
Looks like NE could be in for one helluva big rebuild. Honestly, I find it intriguing. I've been fascinated by how long Bill can keep the wheels on, and I'll be fascinated to see what he does when they finally come off, and that's looking fairly likely. Really, what concerns me about TB leaving isn't the loss of a QB, but the loss of an undisputed team leader. Belichick's management style isn't real appealing, and my hunch is that it's the older guys who can get the youngsters to buy into the system. There are others, McCourty, Hightower, Edelman, but TB was the big one. It'll also be harder to lure people into that kind of environment without the surety of being a SB contender. Savvy veterans aren't going to be flocking to them like they used to. Lastly, the timing kind of sucks since they'll likely loose a pick over that filming bullshit.
While there are major cracks and the end appears imminent, I am still not throwing dirt on their coffin until the coroner confirms it and tags their toe. :P
I learned a long time ago that the second people start to count the Patriots out is the exact moment when they decide to turn it on and win it all. In the playoffs, experience reigns supreme, and nobody has more experience at this point then TB and BB. I won’t count them out until I see triple zeroes on the clock and a smaller number in their points column.
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Not sure if this would be considered controversial, but I have to get something off my chest.
I feel like TD Passes is an overrated stat for a QB.
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Not sure if this would be considered controversial, but I have to get something off my chest.
I feel like TD Passes is an overrated stat for a QB.
On a related note....I don't think YAC should be credited to the QB. But I know it will never change.
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Not sure if this would be considered controversial, but I have to get something off my chest.
I feel like TD Passes is an overrated stat for a QB.
On a related note....I don't think YAC should be credited to the QB. But I know it will never change.
Exactly.
QB throws a 5 yard screen, but the receiver breaks it for 80 yards for a TD. But somehow the QB is the hero.
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Not sure if this would be considered controversial, but I have to get something off my chest.
I feel like TD Passes is an overrated stat for a QB.
On a related note....I don't think YAC should be credited to the QB. But I know it will never change.
Exactly.
QB throws a 5 yard screen, but the receiver breaks it for 80 yards for a TD. But somehow the QB is the hero.
On the flip side you could say that if a quarterback throws the ball 60 yards downfield and the receiver catches it then runs 20 yards for the touchdown, those 60 yards should only count for the QB. I think that keeping it the way it is promotes a team first mentality, otherwise wideouts would only want to catch short passes and get YAC and quarterbacks would only want to throw downfield.
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No, I am not suggesting we divvy up the yardage.
I just feel that a good QB can engineer a drive down the field, but if he throws a TD pass, it adds to his accolades, rather than simply handing off to a back. It's the same amount of points.
Yet we are constantly comparing QB's by TD passes. Honestly, I think it's irrelevant.
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I get what you are saying about YAC, and I don't completely disagree. But on the flip side, a good QB often creates a lot of YAC opportunities, both by recognizing which receiver is in position to break loose for a big gain, and by placing the pass in the proper position to allow the receiver to break loose. Sometimes it is hitting the receiver in stride so he has a good angle and good momentum to slip the tackle. Sometimes it is placing the ball so that the receiver is forced to stop or cut back, causing the defender to be out of position to get a clean hit. The good ones can make a lot of those opportunities.
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The Panthers dumpster fire of a season (especially in the last 8 games) was mitigated a little by Christian McCaffrey becoming only the 3rd player in NFL history to joing the 1,000/1,000 club.
Hopefully rebuilding the team around him won't take too long and we can have a relevant team relatively soon.
That last game against the saints was rough to watch.
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I predict that New Orleans will be the only home team to win this weekend.
Aren't the Saints on the road this week?
No.
I wonder if Kraft will get a good luck hummer this weekend.
With his money he could literally murder someone in cold blood and beat the rap.
He should run for President.
The Panthers dumpster fire of a season (especially in the last 8 games) was mitigated a little by Christian McCaffrey becoming only the 3rd player in NFL history to joing the 1,000/1,000 club.
Hopefully rebuilding the team around him won't take too long and we can have a relevant team relatively soon.
That last game against the saints was rough to watch.
The last several have been rough to watch.
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I predict that New Orleans will be the only home team to win this weekend.
Aren't the Saints on the road this week?
No.
I'm going to pick as follows:
Buffalo at Houston
Tennessee at New England
Minnesota at New Orleans
Seattle at Philadelphia
I would not be surprised to be wrong about either of the AFC games. I think Buffalo is the better team in that game, but if ever there was an "any given Sunday" type of team in this round, I think it's Houston. They have the talent to put together a win against most teams, but typically just don't.
The Pats just don't look like themselves and look like they are running out of gas. But I hate to ever bet against them in the playoffs. History has taught me to know better. That said, Tennessee are both hot and explosive, so an upset would not be surprising.
As much as I love the Saints, I would love to see an upset just because I would like to see a Cousins vs. Jimmy G. matchup. But I just don't see it.
Seattle with Wilson always seems to find a way to surprise. But I think they are out of gas and will fall just short of beating Philly at home. That said, the Eagles are masterful at finding creative ways to choke this season, so...
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Back to the SF/Seattle game, a couple of points:
1. The "pass interference" no-call:
I challenge anyone complaining about it being defensive PI to watch the play again. There is good slow-mo from a couple of angles if you scroll down here: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/richard-sherman-rips-those-wanting-195805491.html It's really a stretch to call it defensive PI. If anything, it is offensive PI against the tight end. But more importantly, to those complaining that the play should have been reviewed, it was. And here is what the NFL found:
"Well, we actually looked at it here in New York," NFL senior vice president of officiating Al Riveron told pool reporter Tim Booth of The Seattle Times. "We had a great look. NBC gives us a great look of the entire route. So, we actually did perform a review, but based on what we saw, we didn't see enough to stop the game. But we did review it.
"What we see is, we see the offensive player come in and initiate contact on the defensive player -- nothing that rises to the level of a foul which significantly hinders the defender, nothing that is clear and obvious through visual evidence, which hinders the defender. The defender then braces himself.
"And there is contact by the defender on the receiver. Again, nothing which rises to the level of a foul based on visual evidence. Nothing happens that rises to the level of a foul while the ball is in the air before it gets there by either player."
2. My take on Marshawn Lynch's impact on the game: Lynch had 34 yards and the goal line TD leap. Not to take the TD away from him--he made the play and deserves the credit for it--but that was a TD a lot of decent backs could have made, or that Wilson could have even gotten on a sneak. Homer, on the other hand, had 92 all-purpose yards, which felt like he FAR exceeded expectations. So the interesting question to me is: Was Lynch effective? I think the '9ers players and coaching staff would say the pretty much shut him down. But, to me, that doesn't answer the question of whether he was effective and had an impact on the game. And I think he did have an overall net positive impact on the game for Seattle.
The 49ers keyed on the run and went to bare minimum pass defense when Lynch was on the field. If you look at plays where he was in the game, the Seattle offense was pretty ineffective. But not always. And, bottom line, Lynch made the 49ers alter their defense from play to play. The '9ers ultimately had minimal respect for Homer as a running back, and I don't think that changed much with Lynch being signed. But I think it did have some effect. I think the respect gap widened with Lynch being in the game, and that that allowed Homer to exceed expectations in terms of his own performance. The fact that the 49ers had to respect the run game at all in the second half was due to the fact that Homer gashed them a few times, and also came up with some receiving yards. Even though he didn't dazzle, he was a reason that Seattle was in this game at the end. And, again, I think some of that is indirectly a result of Lynch being in the game as well. It just changed the way the 49ers played defense, and it took pressure off of Homer and allowed him to rest. And not having the entire run game on his shoulders allowed him to do very well for someone coming off the practice squad and making his first NFL start in a game of such magnitude.
So I guess my take on Marshawn Lynch coming back is that even though his stat line didn't dazzle, and he was largely shut down on an individual basis by the 49ers D, his presence was enough to alter the game in a way that benefitted Seattle.
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Again I'm by no means a football historian but that list looks fine to me. Brees was the wildcard for me, considering just looking at stats he is at the top or near it in many categories. It's crazy to see when QBs like Baugh and Joe Namath have more INTs than TDs.
Moving the Seahawks/Niners game to SNF is interesting in that both teams will know exactly what they are playing for. If Saints and Packers both win as they should, Niners paying for a much bigger swing with either #1/bye or #5 at Philly/Dallas than Hawks playing for #3 hosting Vikings or #5 at Philly/Dallas.
The shape of the ball, the hash marks, and the 'lack' of pass interference calls made a world of difference back then. That's why rushing offense totals have 'diminished' so much since the late 70s until this year's Ravens team.
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My Predictions, which are usually pretty bad overall, despite picking the Rams and Pats in last year's Super Bowl the previous August. This year I had the Chiefs and Rams, so that obviously isn't happening.
Wild Card Weekend
Texans over Bills
Patriots over Titans
Saints over Vikings
Seahawks over Eagles
Divisional Round
49ers over Seahawks
Ravens over Texans
Chiefs over Patriots
Saints over Packers
Conference Championships
Chiefs over Ravens
Saints over 49ers
Saints over Chiefs
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DOC, the Raven's look unstoppable right now. I'd pick them to win it all.
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The Ravens are similar to the 2018 Saints in that they got white hot in October and November and tore everyone to shreds, and then came back down to earth in December (while still winning most or all of their games). Long story short: it feels like the Ravens may have peaked a bit too soon, but they could still win the AFC and make it to the Super Bowl. KC has quietly been hot lately and even their defense looks better, so it wouldn't surprise me to see them make a Super Bowl run, although who know if you can really trust their defense when it matters. Cut the "can you really trust Andy Reid" puns from the peanut gallery as well. ;)
Crazy fact: 9 of the last 18 regular season MVP's (8 quarterbacks and 1 RB) saw their team make it to and lose the Super Bowl.
Given that, I predict the Ravens, with the likely-MVP Lamar Jackson, to make it to the Super Bowl and lose.
It feels like the Saints should be the team to do it, but knowing their (bad) luck, they will probably have to play in a snow storm at GB in the divisional round and lose. :lol :lol
Honestly, if the conference finals are SF vs NO and KC vs Balt, it will be a great Super Bowl no matter what. It feels like those are the best four teams, and the Super Bowl would be an even matchup no matter which teams make it. GB feels like a soft 2 seed. Still not counting NE out, but the Patriots Super Bowl teams in this era are never this much of a wreck going into the playoffs.
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King 2018: The Pats won't go anywhere in the playoffs.
King 2019: The Pats won't go anywhere in the playoffs.
This year an extra game, 2 away and add that the offense has not got it together all year. I think the Ravens.
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Doesn't this year for the Pats feel like 2009 (when they got trashed by Baltimore in the wild card round)? Not saying the Titans will beat them Saturday, but it just looks and feels like the Patriots are on the descent, which is unusual since they are usually peaking in December and January. And in past years when many didn't pick them to go to the Super Bowl, it was because the AFC had a darling that year that looked more appealing at the time, like KC last year for example, not necessarily because the Patriots were looking shaky.
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That year, the players just didn't play for BB.
This year you see their buy in. The offense has too many issues to pull their own weight.
All the year from 2009 though 2013 the D wasnt pulling their weight and when you are so one sided it hurts your chances to compete in the Playoffs.
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That year, the players just didn't play for BB.
This year you see their buy in.
You see everyone's buy-in except Brady's.
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That year, the players just didn't play for BB.
This year you see their buy in.
You see everyone's buy-in except Brady's.
No, that's frustration, not buy in Tim you old cahoot.
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@Kev: I agree with the "best four teams" sentiment. Unfortunately, I don't see that scenario as the most likely in the NFC. Given that NO will have to travel to GB in round 2 (assuming they win wildcard weekend, which I believe they will), I don't see them winning. They have been pretty reliable winning on the road this year. But they are probably the most ill-suited team to have to win at Lambeau in January, whether there is a snow storm or not.
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"Well, we actually looked at it here in New York," NFL senior vice president of officiating Al Riveron told pool reporter Tim Booth of The Seattle Times. "We had a great look. NBC gives us a great look of the entire route. So, we actually did perform a review, but based on what we saw, we didn't see enough to stop the game. But we did review it.
"What we see is, we see the offensive player come in and initiate contact on the defensive player -- nothing that rises to the level of a foul which significantly hinders the defender, nothing that is clear and obvious through visual evidence, which hinders the defender. The defender then braces himself.
"And there is contact by the defender on the receiver. Again, nothing which rises to the level of a foul based on visual evidence. Nothing happens that rises to the level of a foul while the ball is in the air before it gets there by either player."
Well, my opinion hardly matters, and I'm pretty much over it anyway, but I disagree with their assessment. It's not a both or neither thing. One can rise to the level of PI while the other does not. I thought there was DPI, and while there is a case to be made about OPI, I thought the receiver was running his route and being blocked.
There was a different thing in their statement that I found interesting, though. When asked if they looked for any sort of helmet to helmet contact on the final play (the non-fumble that didn't cross the goal line), he said "no, that's not one of the reviewable aspects of the play." Why the hell not? I was of the impression that once a review has been initiated that all aspects were reviewable. They comment on that all the time. If one of the players had lined up off sides that would have been flagged under review, wouldn't it? I haven't heard of any helmet to helmet contact there, and the game's over, but I found that an odd stance.
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It's all about the interpretation and it seems all refs are wired differently than us fans, hell, even the announcers.
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John Dorsey done in Cleveland. Probably best for the franchise.
bosk, regarding the Saints, fair points. They historically struggle outside in playoff games, and if the weather is bad in GB, could be big trouble. I just don't trust the Packers this year.
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I don't trust the Packers either. But the Saints D isn't all that great, and if they have to rely on offense to get it done, I just don't think Lambeau in January is the place for them to do it, regardless of the personnel (other than Rodgers) wearing the green and yellow. But that's just my novice opinion on the subject.
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My completely unbiased predictions
Wild Card Weekend
Texans over Bills
Titans over Pats
Saints over Vikings
Seahawks over Eagles
Divisional Round
Seahawks over 49ers
Ravens over Titans
Chiefs over Texans
Packers over Saints
Conference Championships
Chiefs over Ravens
Packers over Seahawks
Packers over Chiefs (with the same score as SB I)
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Also why is Dallas dicking around and not firing Jason Garrett already
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Also why is Dallas dicking around and not firing Jason Garrett already
Jerry is an idiot. He is the reason his team is middle of the road with the talent they have.
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Technically, Jerry doesn't have to fire Garrett since his contract expires this month and he can simply choose not to re-sign him. Semantics aside, it would be so awesome if Jerry kept him as their coach.
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Also why is Dallas dicking around and not firing Jason Garrett already
Jerry is an idiot. He is the reason his team is middle of the road with the talent they have.
Nah. As a GM he's put together a great deal of talent right now and he's stayed fairly clear of the operations for the last couple of years. His only fault is not having a better coach, and that applies to 20 of the 32 teams right now. Coaching and culture are the two things keeping them down right now, and fixing one should fix the other. Jerry's a popular target because he's an obnoxious loudmouth, but I've long maintained that there are a whole lot of teams that would love to have an owner like him.
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That's correct. It's his fault his team isn't performing better. If he changes the staff, they would respond better. We are both saying the same thing.
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Jerry Jones reminds me of the C. Montgomery Burns vibe.. "Give the fools their TARTAR sauce"!
"Excellent"!!! 😈
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RIP Sam Wyche...
https://youtu.be/yJMa20xXykI
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Was hoping that clip was what it turned out to be.
Can't say much about him. I do recall rooting for that Bengals team in the SB. Not sure why.
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RIP Sam Wyche...
https://youtu.be/yJMa20xXykI
Very good head coach and one of the best quarterback coaches you'll ever find. You can always tell one of his QBs by how often they fool the cameramen with play action.
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So is Garrett gone or not? I've seen several posts that say they might be moving on, but this has gone on fairly long after the season (most coaches get let go in the first day or three from the end of the season, to maximize the opportunity for a replacement). It's what, five, six days? Garrett hasn't - to my knowledge - finished his player exit interviews, so there's that, but seems like this is a fluid situation.
Richard Rawlings is calling for the start of the Troy Aikman era (I thought I saw him call for the start of the Tony Romo era, too, so it may be a joke).
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So is Garrett gone or not? I've seen several posts that say they might be moving on, but this has gone on fairly long after the season (most coaches get let go in the first day or three from the end of the season, to maximize the opportunity for a replacement). It's what, five, six days? Garrett hasn't - to my knowledge - finished his player exit interviews, so there's that, but seems like this is a fluid situation.
Richard Rawlings is calling for the start of the Troy Aikman era (I thought I saw him call for the start of the Tony Romo era, too, so it may be a joke).
I think they're just going to not renew his contract, rather than formally firing him.
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I'm going to pick as follows:
Buffalo at Houston
Tennessee at New England
Minnesota at New Orleans
Seattle at Philadelphia
I'm going to revise my pick on the last game and go with Seattle. I didn't realize Philly was as beat up by injuries as they are.
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Christian McCaffrey makes All-Pro at 2 positions. Nice.
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McCaffrey had an unbelievable season, but that seems odd to have given him two spots on the All-Pro 1st team.
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Been binging on the NFL Throwback YoutTube channel and saw this user comment when watching a video of the Ernest Byner fumble:
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Byner's in the endzone,
But the ball is on the 2.
Also watched the final drive of SB36, and Madden spends the first half of the drive with "You're gonna wanna just run the clock out here and go to OT, no point trying to score."
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I'm going to pick as follows:
Buffalo at Houston
Tennessee at New England
Minnesota at New Orleans
Seattle at Philadelphia
I'm going to revise my pick on the last game and go with Seattle. I didn't realize Philly was as beat up by injuries as they are.
Seattle is plagued with injuries too..
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I know. But Philly seems hit even harder. Game time will tell.
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What's really ironic here is that I had *JUST* been watching a video of "the dumbest plays in football history". One of them was a college game between Clemson and South Carolina St. In that game, an SCS player did the EXACT same thing Houston just did on the 2nd half kickoff. Caught the ball deep in the endzone, gave some vague body language that he wasn't running out, and flipped it to the ref.
In that game, Clemson picked it up and it was called a TD. And to me, that's the way it should have been. If you're too lazy to make a clear signal, that's what should happen. To me, it's the same as those guys who slow down before crossing the endzone and then end up getting tackled, or worse yet, fumble. Don't be so lazy and stupid things won't happen to you.
I personally think that should have been a Bills TD.
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Didn't see that, as I came in midway through the 3rd quarter.
Really like Deshaun Watson. Any chance of him heading to New England? :)
Really do not like the game that Tessitore and McFarland are calling. You'd think it was a WWE match with all the hype and hyperbole. After the turnover, McFarland was calling Watson "Superman". Of course, then he's sacked for a three yard loss, and they settle for the field goal. C'mon, man. Just call the game. He's a very very good player, but there are 22 good players on the field at any one time.
I watch anywhere from three to five games a week - meaning, I'm a fan of the NFL - but if they keep creeping toward becoming the NBA, I'ma going to have to find another sport.
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I've got no dog in this fight but this game has me on the edge of my seat.
If the whole postseason is gonna be like this, we're in for a treat.
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I'd kind of like to see the Bills take this game.....and go all the way to the Superbowl :corn I remember watching all 4 of those Superbowls the Bills went to between '91 and '94 and watching them lose, it would be cool for them to make it back and lose to the Niners this time :biggrin:
Edit - Well, nevermind then.... :yeahright
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My 8 year old daughter, who has never given 2 shits about football, was riveted to the last 15-20 minutes of that Bills/Texans game.
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Why can't all games be as exciting as the 4th quarter and OT of that Bills/Texans game? That was a joy to watch, especially since I had no rooting interest.
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I love playoff time, best time to watch all the sports. That OT game was something else. Feel bad for the Bills but the Texans rallied hard in the end. This NE game is beginning to look tight as well.
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I actually was pulling for the Bills. Great game.
Pats red zone play are their Achilles heel.
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The Titans defense dropping what should have been an easy pick-6 may come back to bite them, but the Patriots defense already looks tired of trying to tackle Derrick Henry, and there is still a half to go. I still can't believe a RB as big as Henry is that fast. Titans just need to keep calling run, run, run, and not get cute with having Tannehill throw it too much.
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I'm shocked they weren't making a priority to take out of the gameplan in the 1st half!
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This is painful to watch. The Titans coaches are morons and keep calling passes in an attempt to let Tannehill give the game away, and the Patriots offense can't do anything now that the smoke and mirrors plays that worked in the first half have maxed it. Feels like a game NE will win and we will all talk about how the Titans gave it away.
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This is painful to watch. The Titans coaches are morons and keep calling passes in an attempt to let Tannehill give the game away, and the Patriots offense can't do anything now that the smoke and mirrors plays that worked in the first half have maxed it. Feels like a game NE will win and we will all talk about how the Titans gave it away.
I don't know. That Tannehill INT was the gift the Pats needed and they basically shit on it.
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I am sure the NFL will change the rules on that sequence we just saw, but it was funny see Vrabel use Belichick's own move against him.
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Was BB having a fit at Vrabel's shenanigans? Don't ever think I've seen him incensed that way.
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Welp, here we go...
Edelman, WTF??
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I'm going to assume the Pats are not going to be able to pull a miracle now.
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Yeah, that's pretty much it!
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No surprise.
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Yeah, I was predicting the Titans all week. People at work thought I was nuts, but when you go 5-4 over your last 9 games, the same as the fucking Dolphins, it's is definitely no surprise.
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A wildly entertaining day of football!
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Football fans everywhere (except the Northeast) can now enjoy the rest of the playoffs knowing that the villain everyone is tired of has been knocked out. Great day for footballs fans almost everywhere.
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Yeah, I was predicting the Titans all week. People at work thought I was nuts, but when you go 5-4 over your last 9 games, the same as the fucking Dolphins, it's is definitely no surprise.
You don't win with unbalance. It's obvious for football fans.
Football fans everywhere (except the Northeast) can now enjoy the rest of the playoffs knowing that the villain everyone is tired of has been knocked out. Great day for footballs fans almost everywhere.
It's like I'm in your head. Lol
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Not at all. It's like Duke in college hoops. You get tired of seeing the same team every year. Time for some new blood.
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Absolutely. We'll have a non Brady/Manning AFC QB in the SB for the first time since 2013.
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To add to that, DOC, since 2003, the starting QB for the AFC in the Super Bowl has been named Brady (8 times), Manning (4 times), Roethlisberger (3 times) or Flacco (1 time). A new name will make that list.
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PATS LOST!!!! :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
If the Hawks don't get there, at least this will make me happy.
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Not at all. It's like Duke in college hoops. You get tired of seeing the same team every year. Time for some new blood.
Nah. I know you better. Lol
It's ok. I understand. Plus this team was extremely flawed. I get your enthusiasm. Been there.
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I will tell you what I told a friend earlier: I don't hate the Patriots; I, like many, am just tired of them.
A grumpy Belichick at a presser following a playoff loss is golden, largely because the media sounded scared to ask him questions. :lol :lol
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It's like porn for 31 other team's fans. Lol. For sure.
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Same thing for fans of every other team when Dallas got knocked out of the playoffs in '96. Everyone except Cowboys fans were tired of them as well, and their run was only half a decade. :lol :lol
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To make you feel young I had a neighborhood friend who loved other teams and he was a Cowboy fan in the 70's.
I got off seeing then lose before puberty. Lol
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I may be in the minority but I never got tired of seeing the Patriots in the playoffs, and my local team puked away a potential SB win to them with less than a minute to go in the game.
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Quick notes: entertaining as all hell, and I'm not knocking either team, but it just seemed like neither Houston or Buffalo wanted to win. Man, there were so many mistakes and missed opportunities.
Who knows how things will turn out, but, I'd have rather seen the Ravens take on Houston a second time. The Titans are the type of team that has given them fits all year. They caught some breaks (recovering two of their fumbles) and Edelman's drop was so unexpected and costly.
edit: the huge stops (odd play calls?) at the Tennessee 1 when it was 10-7, followed by the Titans TD in the last two minutes of the first half was so un-New England in any big game. Stunning.
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It’s gonna be nice to be able to enjoy the rest of the playoffs without being stressed out by the potential of another Pats SB win.
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It seems like a lot of predictions were that the Saints would rout the Vikings, but Minnesota is playing well so far, outside of the Thielen fumble that gave NO a quick 3. It's still early and a lot can happen, of course.
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It seems like a lot of predictions were that the Saints would rout the Vikings, but Minnesota is playing well so far, outside of the Thielen fumble that gave NO a quick 3. It's still early and a lot can happen, of course.
The Vikings only lost two games to non-playoff teams. Both losses were to the Bears and one of those was Week 17 when they rested their starters because they were already locked into the 6 seed. They’re a legit contender as far as I’m concerned.
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Having not been watching, I just looked on ESPN Gamecast and see T. Hill is the Saints' passing leader. That sure looks weird.
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Brees doesn't look good, but the Vikings are getting good pressure; they are winning this game in the trenches.
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Brees doesn't look good, but the Vikings are getting good pressure; they are winning this game in the trenches.
Yeah, I think the Vikings got this. :leaveseyes:
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Brees doesn't look good, but the Vikings are getting good pressure; they are winning this game in the trenches.
Yeah, I think the Vikings got this. :leaveseyes:
Every time it seems like Saints are building momentum, they find a way to fuck it up. This doesn’t look like the New Orleans team we all know. And even though Drew Brees is my favorite QB of all time, I think the Saints should start considering a future with Teddy Bridgewater instead.
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Another down to the wire game.
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I knew they were gonna go into Overtime. Gonna watch until The Hawks game starts. Unless...
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Vikings win, they play the Niners no matter what happens in tonight's game, right?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Vikings win, they play the Niners no matter what happens in tonight's game, right?
You are correct.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Vikings win, they play the Niners no matter what happens in tonight's game, right?
You are correct.
*instantly becomes Vikings fan*
Not that they're an easier path, I'm just not quite ready for another round of SF vs Seattle...they're tough on my heart...
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Welp. There goes my favorite team in this postseason.
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By bye New Orleans
That was awesome!
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I'll predict another road win with the Seahawks winning another close one, 13-10.
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I'll predict another road win with the Seahawks winning another close one, 13-10.
As long as it's a hard, gritty game, leaving both teams physically and emotionally drained for weeks. :biggrin:
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Really, really bummed.
My two teams this year: New England and New Orleans. I'm really bummed. I'm so bummed, I'm repeating myself.
Now on the Green Bay/Houston Texans bandwagons (which may not be running long).
All I do know is there are a lot of QBs I don't want to see winning a Super Bowl still left: Kirk Cousins, Patrick Mahomes, Ryan Tannehill. Even Lamar Jackson, who I like, but I just don't want to hear the media fellations if he does win the SB. Let him wait a few years first. ;)
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Oh gee, the most overrated coach in football is out already. :lol
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Oh gee, the most overrated coach in football is out already. :lol
That's a little harsh; Sean McDermott has only been coaching for, what, two years now? Reid and Pederson are still in, so you can't mean them.
;) :) :)
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Oh gee, the most overrated coach in football is out already. :lol
That's a little harsh; Sean McDermott has only been coaching for, what, two years now? Reid and Pederson are still in, so you can't mean them.
;) :) :)
Definitely not harsh. Up until last year, he averaged a 9-7 season with Brees as his QB. That's probably 10-6 after the last two years.
Only made the playoffs in 8 out of 13 years, making the CG only 3 times, with just one SB appearance.
I'm sorry, Payton does not live up to the hype, especially having a HOF, not quite as overrated, QB.
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Nah, I know; I was busting your balls with the McDermott thing; I knew full well who you meant, and as much as I love the Saints and Brees, you're not entirely wrong. They had all the weapons. With Brees, Hill, Thomas and Kamala Harris, plus that D, there's no excuse. One year, maybe, but this is what, three years in a row now?
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Is he even really that highly regarded? If everyone (outside of NO, maybe) thinks he is overrated, he isn't overrated, because no one is overrating him.
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Damn, will Wentz ever be able to play in a playoff game?
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Is he even really that highly regarded? If everyone (outside of NO, maybe) thinks he is overrated, he isn't overrated, because no one is overrating him.
I think if you ask most people who are the Top 3-5 coaches in the league, Payton would be on most people's lost.
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Totally agree about Payton. Great OC, but not a great head coach. He has had Brees for 14 seasons now and has failed to win a playoff game in eight of them. That's just not good enough. And today they looked unprepared and lethargic, which is all about coaching. But hey, at least they have another officiating non-call on which they can blame the loss rather than taking responsibility that they just weren't good enough.
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Oh, and did Pete Carroll slip the refs some cash today?
Mostly kidding, but Clowney got away with drilling Wentz with a helmet to helmet and knocking him out of the game, and then a Seahawk defender hit McNown late just before the end of the half and there was no flag. And just before that, Wilson was hit a touch late and the flag came flying out quickly. I am rooting for the Seahawks, but these calls are really lopsided in their favor.
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Oh, and did Pete Carroll slip the refs some cash today?
Mostly kidding, but Clowney got away with drilling Wentz with a helmet to helmet and knocking him out of the game, and then a Seahawk defender hit McNown late just before the end of the half and there was no flag. And just before that, Wilson was hit a touch late and the flag came flying out quickly. I am rooting for the Seahawks, but these calls are really lopsided in their favor.
Well, they did miss an obvious Off Sides call against the Eagles when the Hawks were on the 30 with a 3rd down.
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Totally agree about Payton. Great OC, but not a great head coach. He has had Brees for 14 seasons now and has failed to win a playoff game in eight of them. That's just not good enough. And today they looked unprepared and lethargic, which is all about coaching. But hey, at least they have another officiating non-call on which they can blame the loss rather than taking responsibility that they just weren't good enough.
It's always been my understanding that you can hand-check, but if you extend the arm you're going to get flagged. He extended the arm. Both Tony Dungy and Rodney Harrison were unequivocal that was a bad no-call. Harrison was animated about it. I happen to agree, though I'm partial to the Saints.
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Why didn't Seattle drop 40 on this team? They dodged a bullet. So proud of this team but you can only get so far running on fumes.
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Why didn't Seattle drop 40 on this team? They dodged a bullet. So proud of this team but you can only get so far running on fumes.
And now they have to go play the Packers in Green Bay. I don't think they stand a chance.
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It's always been my understanding that you can hand-check, but if you extend the arm you're going to get flagged. He extended the arm. Both Tony Dungy and Rodney Harrison were unequivocal that was a bad no-call. Harrison was animated about it. I happen to agree, though I'm partial to the Saints.
Dungy and Harrison are defensive guys and will usually side with the defense in these close calls, but based on what I saw (I didn't see all of the game, probably 60% of it), they were letting a lot go on both sides in regards to PI, so to suddenly make that ticky tack call at the end there would have been going against how the rest of the game was called, IMO. I'm sure I'd be mad as hell if I were a Saints fan, but as a neutral observer who just wanted a good game, I was not bothered by the last play not being called PI.
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I don't mean this to sound like a dick but say it more for conversation purposes, but my feelings on a call don't have that much to do with "what team it is". And it also needs to be said: it should never have come to that. The Saints blew a field goal, should have done better than three runs for loss on the goal-line stand, and should not have fumbled the ball away on the Vikes' 20.
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Oh, and did Pete Carroll slip the refs some cash today?
Mostly kidding, but Clowney got away with drilling Wentz with a helmet to helmet and knocking him out of the game, and then a Seahawk defender hit McNown late just before the end of the half and there was no flag. And just before that, Wilson was hit a touch late and the flag came flying out quickly. I am rooting for the Seahawks, but these calls are really lopsided in their favor.
Yea I can't deny the Hawks got some help with this one.
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I'll predict another road win with the Seahawks winning another close one, 13-10.
Was pretty close. On to GB, and a loss I anticipate.
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Why didn't Seattle drop 40 on this team? They dodged a bullet. So proud of this team but you can only get so far running on fumes.
Because their stupid asshole HC refuses to let Wilson cut loose and insists on putting him in 3rd and 10 every series. If they cut out the conservative old school bullshit Wilson would dice teams apart.
FWIW his running backs averaged 1.2 and 1.1 yards per carry today.
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Wow, I went 1-3 with my picks. :lol Oh well.
Next week:
Vikings @ 49ers
Titans @ Ravens
Texans @ Chiefs
Seahawks @ Packers
I wish I felt something surprising there. But I really think all the home teams will win next week.
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I think all of the home teams will win as well. Never underestimate the importance of getting a bye. Seattle is the most likely to win, largely because they always keep it close and know how to win at the end, and partially because I am just not super impressed with the Packers lately, although it would be funny after years of not being able to make it back to the Super Bowl when he was playing the QB position as well as anyone, if Rodgers made it back this year after having merely a "very good" season (by his standards).
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I know I said this about the Saints as well, but I just don't see any team going into Lambeau and winning there, especially a team as depleted as the Seahawks.
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I’m extremely skeptical of our chances against GB. But I will say that Rodgers did NOT play well in the 2nd half of the season. I literally was forced to drop him in my fantasy league.
If Rodgers struggles, we have a shot.
Then again, he will be coming off a week’s rest.
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I also have a bad feeling about that Houston/KC game.
I’m actually really pulling for KC because 1) I like Mahomes 2) I feel sorry for the Chiefs who haven’t been in a SB for 50 years and 3) I think a Ravens/Chiefs AFC Championship game would be the game of the century and the beginning of a “new blood” rivalry. With the old dynasties dying out (Brady, Brees, Big Ben...etc) a Mahomes/Jackson showdown just feels like it could be a matchup that gets repeated several times in the coming years.
All that being said, that’s the game that feels the most ripe for a possible upset.
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I know I said this about the Saints as well, but I just don't see any team going into Lambeau and winning there, especially a team as depleted as the Seahawks.
I was hoping the Seahawks would be playing the 49ers next week. I think it will be harder for them to pull off a win in Lambeau than in Levi's (Santa Clara), and that's saying a LOT!
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So the refs favored the Seahawks, eh?
11 penalties, most in a WC game since 2009
114 penalty yards, most in a WC game since 1999
Yea the refs missed a big one, but there ya go.
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Kind of tired of the "refs are biased" conversation (https://www.nflpenalties.com/). It just seems week-to-week there are bad calls in every game. That two or three bad calls all happen to go one way in any one particular game isn't statistically significant to understand whether any particular team is favored or not.
The Pats - widely accused here of being "referee/league pets", are not in the TOP TEN of teams for penalties called FOR them (i.e. against the other team). They are 14th, actually. They are not in the TOP FIVE of teams for penalties called AGAINST them (they are six) but there is at least some argument that coaching plays a role there. It should be noted that the middle of the pack is, in fact, a pack; 20 penalties separates the Pats from the leading team, but 20 more penalties drops them all the way to the bottom ten in the league. It should also be noted that of the top five teams, NOT ONE made the playoffs.
Seattle? Fifth WORST in the league for penalties called FOR them (meaning, only four other teams had fewer penalties called against their opponents). They are tied for fifteenth for penalties called against them (basically middle of the pack).
Teams that have beef? The Saints and the Raiders. The Raiders are the third most penalized team in the league, and New Orleans is fourth. The Raiders are the second-least recipient of penalties (that is, penalties called against their opponent) and the Saints fourth.
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Kind of tired of the "refs are biased" conversation (https://www.nflpenalties.com/). It just seems week-to-week there are bad calls in every game. That two or three bad calls all happen to go one way in any one particular game isn't statistically significant to understand whether any particular team is favored or not.
The Pats - widely accused here of being "referee/league pets", are not in the TOP TEN of teams for penalties called FOR them (i.e. against the other team). They are 14th, actually. They are not in the TOP FIVE of teams for penalties called AGAINST them (they are six) but there is at least some argument that coaching plays a role there. It should be noted that the middle of the pack is, in fact, a pack; 20 penalties separates the Pats from the leading team, but 20 more penalties drops them all the way to the bottom ten in the league. It should also be noted that of the top five teams, NOT ONE made the playoffs.
Seattle? Fifth WORST in the league for penalties called FOR them (meaning, only four other teams had fewer penalties called against their opponents). They are tied for fifteenth for penalties called against them (basically middle of the pack).
Teams that have beef? The Saints and the Raiders. The Raiders are the third most penalized team in the league, and New Orleans is fourth. The Raiders are the second-least recipient of penalties (that is, penalties called against their opponent) and the Saints fourth.
Somebody wrote a pretty good article about the Patriots and penalties a few years back. Al Riveron and several other officiating bigwigs all had the exact same thing to say about it. No team in the league puts anywhere near as much thought into it as NE. At the beginning of the year they go to each team to explain what's new and what's changed, and Bill spends a day grilling them about how it will be called. "When you say 5 yards do you mean ~5 yds? Up to 7 yds or barely 4?" He's the only coach that really drills into it. The rest just take notes and move on. That knowledge works its way down to the position coaches who drill it constantly.
A fascinating takeaway from that article was that the referees often make obvious decisions for the coaches to save time. If the decision is 1st and goal at the 7 or 3rd and 24 at midfield it's pretty clear what the coach is going to do. I was always curious how that worked. Thirty-one coaches in the league are fine with that arrangement. One is not. :lol
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I also have a bad feeling about that Houston/KC game.
I’m actually really pulling for KC because 1) I like Mahomes 2) I feel sorry for the Chiefs who haven’t been in a SB for 50 years and 3) I think a Ravens/Chiefs AFC Championship game would be the game of the century and the beginning of a “new blood” rivalry. With the old dynasties dying out (Brady, Brees, Big Ben...etc) a Mahomes/Jackson showdown just feels like it could be a matchup that gets repeated several times in the coming years.
All that being said, that’s the game that feels the most ripe for a possible upset.
KC is favored by 10, which seems like way too many points, even with Andy Reid teams historically playing great off of a bye (regular season and playoffs). Maybe Vegas is taking the "Bill O'Brien is a doofus" factor into account. :P
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Christ, what would the Over/Under look like in a Chiefs-Ravens playoff game? Looks like the previous record was 64 (blown out by the third quarter by the Chiefs-Rams).
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Christ, what would the Over/Under look like in a Chiefs-Ravens playoff game? Looks like the previous record was 64 (blown out by the third quarter by the Chiefs-Rams).
That will be a hell of a game if both get the the AFC Championship Game.
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Not many are giving the Titans or Texans much of a chance. But I think that is understandable. To the extent there is much drama or potential for an upset this weekend, I think it is more likely in the NFC (although still fairly unlikely).
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Also watched the final drive of SB36, and Madden spends the first half of the drive with "You're gonna wanna just run the clock out here and go to OT, no point trying to score."
I remember that vividly, and my reaction at the time was, "what the fuck are you talking about?!" It seemed absurd. The Pats had a minute and a half (albeit no timeouts) and only needed to get into field goal range. I don't remember where they got the kickoff, but that only amounted to 50 yards or so. The alternative was to take a 50/50 chance that "the best show on turf" would get the ball to open overtime with the same "only need to get into field goal range" situation.
I'm happy that 3 of the 4 games this weekend were entertaining. Unfortunately, I fear we're going to get a bunch of blowouts by the 1 & 2 seeds.
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"They" are saying Jerry has already decided on McCarthy. In some ways this seems like a very good move. In others not so much. With the exception of Parcells and Johnson, Dallas has always preferred "player's coaches," and from what I gather McCarthy qualifies. I think this is a Dallas team that needs more discipline (much like all of the other Dallas teams not coached by Parcells and Johnson). The SI write-up about MM and St. Rodgers didn't paint a real good picture of McCarthy, and I'm not sold on his ability to come in here with an established group and wrangle them all in. Having said that, Dallas has a very talented offense that's underachieving, and MM seems like a very good choice to get them all on the same page. It's hard to argue with what he did in GB, often times with far less than what he's got available here. And to be honest, I don't recall ever thinking that he didn't have his Packers teams ready to play, which certainly looked like the case at times with Garrett's Cowboys.
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As a Giants fan, its concerning that both Dallas and Washington found their coaches and both are solid NFL coaches. I don't really have an opinion on who I want to coach the Giants, but I would have been happy with either of those two hires.
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"They" are saying Jerry has already decided on McCarthy. In some ways this seems like a very good move. In others not so much. With the exception of Parcells and Johnson, Dallas has always preferred "player's coaches," and from what I gather McCarthy qualifies. I think this is a Dallas team that needs more discipline (much like all of the other Dallas teams not coached by Parcells and Johnson). The SI write-up about MM and St. Rodgers didn't paint a real good picture of McCarthy, and I'm not sold on his ability to come in here with an established group and wrangle them all in. Having said that, Dallas has a very talented offense that's underachieving, and MM seems like a very good choice to get them all on the same page. It's hard to argue with what he did in GB, often times with far less than what he's got available here. And to be honest, I don't recall ever thinking that he didn't have his Packers teams ready to play, which certainly looked like the case at times with Garrett's Cowboys.
Bolded is quite an odd statement. The Packers were loaded on offense almost every year McCarthy was the coach, plus Aaron Rodgers. McCarthy's biggest problem was he didn't evolve the offense much from when he started to when he was let go. He never was one to run the ball either, which is Dallas' strong suit.
Don't get the hire personally.
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"They" are saying Jerry has already decided on McCarthy. In some ways this seems like a very good move. In others not so much. With the exception of Parcells and Johnson, Dallas has always preferred "player's coaches," and from what I gather McCarthy qualifies. I think this is a Dallas team that needs more discipline (much like all of the other Dallas teams not coached by Parcells and Johnson). The SI write-up about MM and St. Rodgers didn't paint a real good picture of McCarthy, and I'm not sold on his ability to come in here with an established group and wrangle them all in. Having said that, Dallas has a very talented offense that's underachieving, and MM seems like a very good choice to get them all on the same page. It's hard to argue with what he did in GB, often times with far less than what he's got available here. And to be honest, I don't recall ever thinking that he didn't have his Packers teams ready to play, which certainly looked like the case at times with Garrett's Cowboys.
Bolded is quite an odd statement. The Packers were loaded on offense almost every year McCarthy was the coach, plus Aaron Rodgers. McCarthy's biggest problem was he didn't evolve the offense much from when he started to when he was let go. He never was one to run the ball either, which is Dallas' strong suit.
Don't get the hire personally.
I always figured he was never one to run the ball because he never had an elite RB. Moreover, I don't know as GB has ever had an O-line as good as what he's gong to have here. GB was always St. Rodgers and whoever he wanted to throw the ball to. Here he's inheriting a pretty well rounded team.
And a defense.
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McCarthy seems like an odd hire to me as well. I always thought the GB play calling had zero imagination his last few years there; it always seemed like, have Rodgers drop back and wait for someone to get open. On the flip side, I am sure he will get along a lot better with Prescott, who seems coachable, than he did with Rodgers, who, for all of his greatness, is an arrogant dick who thinks he knows more than everyone else.
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McCarthy seems like an odd hire to me as well. I always thought the GB play calling had zero imagination his last few years there; it always seemed like, have Rodgers drop back and wait for someone to get open. On the flip side, I am sure he will get along a lot better with Prescott, who seems coachable, than he did with Rodgers, who, for all of his greatness, is an arrogant dick who thinks he knows more than everyone else.
Yeah, I have to wonder how much of the play calling you can put on McCarthy since Rodgers seemed to do his own thing anyway. Didn't Rodgers pretty much own up to essentially calling his own plays because he didn't like McCarthy's?
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McCarthy's last couple of seasons were a mess in Green Bay. Did Rodgers start calling his own plays? I don't know and really don't care, but I do know the offense, which was McCarthy's own, wasn't working anymore and that falls on McCarthy not Rodgers.
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Rodgers might have tuned him out. If you don't have your QB buying in your dead on the water as a coach.
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One other thing, if McCarthy had issues will Rodgers, good luck with Jerry Jones.
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Yeah, I have to wonder how much of the play calling you can put on McCarthy since Rodgers seemed to do his own thing anyway. Didn't Rodgers pretty much own up to essentially calling his own plays because he didn't like McCarthy's?
I think it might have been that way the last year or so McCarthy was there; it's hard to remember all of the details that came out earlier last year about the end of his tenure there.
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I think I like this hire, though I don't think it's going to get them over the hump, UNLESS McCarthy can hire FOOTBALL PLAYERS instead of ATHLETES. Jerry Jones knows how to find 22-year-old physical specimens (there's probably something to that, that I don't want to know more about, hahaha) but not how to create a solid football TEAM.
And that will be the difference. If Prescott and Zeke buy into the system - instead of "looking to be paid" - then there's a chance they could be good. If he loses the team like he did in GB, then not so much.
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I'm thinking good short term hire, but bad long term hire. He will, over time, lose the team. Next year I suspect they gel and things go pretty well for them. Like I said before, he's a player's coach. They'll like him and they'll buy in. It's when Jerry can no longer afford to hire a supporting cast that they'll turn on him.
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Sorry to see Joe Judge go. Special teams have been a one constant for NE for many years. Sadly, he'll be the first of another slew of assistant coaches to bail. If Brady leaves this will be another blow to maintaining team order. Damn near all of the assistant staff will be turned over over two seasons, so team leaders will be all the more important. Jerod Mayo's role is going to have to increase, I reckon. He's a true believer and he's got loads of cred with the players.
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Really not sure how I feel about Judge. He's definitely done a good job in NE in his role, but BB assistants often don't pan out once they leave and he's kind of an out of left field hire. In my eyes, he's big risk big reward. He's young and has a good pedigree. No idea how he will do as a HC, but I don't mind him going after Garrett as OC to start. I really feel like Gettlemen looks like an idiot this off season, and he did last one too. I'm not optimistic at all with him as GM and that's more worrisome to me than this hire.
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Vrabel seems to have finally changed the history of NE hires.
Judge....the former ST coach Baltimore hired has turned out fairly well. Time will tell with him.
Just thought I would comment on the new later starts for the Sunday games. It took me the longest time to get used to the later Saturday kickoffs. I understand as to ratings and such, and we'll adapt. I am going to miss the 1pm kickoffs and 8pm endings though.
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Also Bill O'Brien sees to be doing alrigth, who I do like as he saved PSU in a time of need. Judge apparently turned down the Miss St head coaching job. Almost kind of feel like that might have been a better path for him ala Obrien to gain some head coaching experience. I hope he's the real deal because if not, it's going to be another few years of being a shit team and sadly will have wasted the amazing Barkley.
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I'm just excited for the beginning of a dynasty that we are about to witness starting on Saturday. :goniners:
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I'm just excited for the beginning of a dynasty that we are about to witness starting on Saturday. :goniners:
Not sure I would assume a dynasty is on the horizon simply because they beat the Patriots last week; winning at Baltimore alone will be tough for the Titans this week.
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You so cute!
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I'm just excited for the beginning of a dynasty that we are about to witness starting on Saturday. :goniners:
Not sure I would assume a dynasty is on the horizon simply because they beat the Patriots last week; winning at Baltimore alone will be tough for the Titans this week.
:neverusethis:
But seriously :goniners:
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I'm just excited for the beginning of a dynasty that we are about to witness starting on Saturday. :goniners:
Ya.....I remember 2015 like it was yesterday.... ;D
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The NY press is all up in arms that the Gints let Matt Rhule get past them (for that money, that's a plus for the Giants if you ask me) and "settled" for Judge. Mike Francesa - who I'm lukewarm on - was reasonable, and said that you can't decide that right now, but he also made a good point about Judge, though: his resume from any other team and the best he's looking at is a coordinator position or a mid-level college. He gets that NY job because he worked for Belicheck.
At least among the NY sports talk radio crowd, the McCarthy hire is NOT a popular move. They don't think he's enough to get Dak Prescott to the Super Bowl.
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Francesa is an idiot. He was about to accept the head coaching job at Miss State.
But, even as a PSU guy, I wasn't crazy about Rhule in the NFL. I don't think being a successful coach in college often translates to the NFL. He might be able to do it, but to me, he wasn't any better of a hire than Judge. Both high risk, high reward hires in my eyes.
I do understand the frustration in NY though, it points to Gettleman if you ask me and not Judge. I hope his youth brings some new energy and innovation to the team.
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Watch, I type this and they'll announce something this afternoon to make me look stupid, but anyone with me that McDaniels is going nowhere? Cleveland is the only opening right now, and while it looks like a good fit - young quarterback, some talent around that QB, open GM spot (McDaniels has a list of preferred GMs he'd want to work with), I just don't see him going. I still think there's a plan. They might not have the guy under contract right now, but I can't even contemplate that Bill doesn't have some plan if Tommy B. is in San Diego next year, and I'm equally skeptical that an organization as well-run as the Patriots have been for 25 years don't have a plan in place for if they find themselves without BOTH Bill and Tom. I think McDaniels is that guy.
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Watch, I type this and they'll announce something this afternoon to make me look stupid, but anyone with me that McDaniels is going nowhere? Cleveland is the only opening right now, and while it looks like a good fit - young quarterback, some talent around that QB, open GM spot (McDaniels has a list of preferred GMs he'd want to work with), I just don't see him going. I still think there's a plan. They might not have the guy under contract right now, but I can't even contemplate that Bill doesn't have some plan if Tommy B. is in San Diego next year, and I'm equally skeptical that an organization as well-run as the Patriots have been for 25 years don't have a plan in place for if they find themselves without BOTH Bill and Tom. I think McDaniels is that guy.
I think the Haslams will back the truck up for McDaniels. They've wanted him for years. Besides, with the way the Haslams run the Browns, McDaniels will probably be able to head back to New England to take over for Belichick in a year or two anyway.
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Have the Brown even interviewed anyone yet?
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Have the Brown even interviewed anyone yet?
For next season or the season after that? ::)
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Watch, I type this and they'll announce something this afternoon to make me look stupid, but anyone with me that McDaniels is going nowhere? Cleveland is the only opening right now, and while it looks like a good fit - young quarterback, some talent around that QB, open GM spot (McDaniels has a list of preferred GMs he'd want to work with), I just don't see him going. I still think there's a plan. They might not have the guy under contract right now, but I can't even contemplate that Bill doesn't have some plan if Tommy B. is in San Diego next year, and I'm equally skeptical that an organization as well-run as the Patriots have been for 25 years don't have a plan in place for if they find themselves without BOTH Bill and Tom. I think McDaniels is that guy.
He's really got a choice between two great big question marks. While the Pats are certainly a well run organization, as opposed to the Browns, there's a great deal of uncertainty going on. I think he'd like to get out from under Bill's shadow, and if Tom's not there even more-so. At the same time I gather the Haslams are not going to give JMD the control he wants. My understanding is that JMD and Casserio are kind of a matched set right now, and Cleveland already has their guy for that gig. I really don't know if he'll go or not.
Personally, I was thrilled when CAR and NYG hired other people. CLE was the last choice for JMD and if they move on from Brady he'll be a huge piece of the puzzle. I'll reiterate that I think Bill might have a hankering for a Brissett or Bridgewater type, and McD would be a requirement for that to work. Work it would, though. Man, I'd love to see what NE with a mobile QB.
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Of those two, I'm a Teddy Bridgewater fan, though I think he's going to get the keys to the Saints sooner rather than later.
I'm with you, that they would like to go in the direction of a mobile QB, but I just hope and pray that doesn't mean "Jameis Winston" or "Cam Newton". I can't see the former, because BB hates turnovers, and CN may be too fragile at this point. But we'll see.
Is Marcus Mariota done?
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Mariota isn't done per se; he's just not very good. He'll catch on somewhere and be one of the best backups in the league, but he's not good enough to be an every week starter.
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Sorry to sound like a broken record here on the '9ers, but to go back to something that has been said a couple of times: I am thrilled with where the team got to this year. There were plenty of commentators, even here in the Bay Area on the 49ers' flagship radio station that were predicting them finishing as low as 6-10. Not only did they FAR exceed that expectation, but they are clearly built for sustained success, and are a legitimate contender to make the Super Bowl and possibly win it all. As a fan, I couldn't ask for more. No matter what happens this week, the next, or SB week, I'm a happy fan.
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I'm just excited for the beginning of a dynasty that we are about to witness starting on Saturday. :goniners:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol......**catches breath...... :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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Sorry to sound like a broken record here on the '9ers, but to go back to something that has been said a couple of times: I am thrilled with where the team got to this year. There were plenty of commentators, even here in the Bay Area on the 49ers' flagship radio station that were predicting them finishing as low as 6-10. Not only did they FAR exceed that expectation, but they are clearly built for sustained success, and are a legitimate contender to make the Super Bowl and possibly win it all. As a fan, I couldn't ask for more. No matter what happens this week, the next, or SB week, I'm a happy fan.
It's hard not to be, but I'm obviously very pleased with the season.
And to me it's not about the record as much as looking at how we had those wins and losses. Aside from Atlanta we won all the games we should have. We went up against tough opponents and beat most of them, including some like Green Bay in blowout fashion. And then the losses we did have we all lost in the final moments, including one overtime loss. We were competitive in EVERY SINGLE GAME. I can't remember the last time, if ever, I could say that. Yeah, we could have gone 10-6, but really we were also a few plays short of 16-0 at the same time.
I think we've got a shot against anyone. We should handle the Vikings, have already destroyed Green Bay, and should be able to best Seattle again considering they will have two weeks of playoff wear and tear to our one if they get through. I think Baltimore will win the AFC and am hopeful to see a rematch. I think we'll have great games all the way.
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Not only is the week of rest huge, but this will also be the first time since October that they will have pretty much their starting defense intact--OCTOBER! It's crazy how banged up they were during that insane stretch of games, and STILL competed the way they did.
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But seriously :goniners:
Of you wanna know who Bosk roots for, just check which teams have emotes....
:GiantsMetal:
:gobears:
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:lol Yeah...
:godubs:
:(
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But seriously :goniners:
Of you wanna know who Bosk roots for, just check which teams have emotes....
:GiantsMetal:
:gobears:
All the same teams I root for Nice! :tup
:lol Yeah...
:godubs:
:(
You're gonna have to fix that one :biggrin:
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Green Bay is expected to get 6-12 inches of snow Saturday evening into the overnight. They say the system will clear out Sunday morning and conditions should be good for the game, temps in the low 20’s.
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I guess Philly's Josh McCown ripped his hamstring off the bone in the 2nd quarter last week vs. the Seahawks.
Imagine if they would have won.
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Green Bay is expected to get 6-12 inches of snow Saturday evening into the overnight. They say the system will clear out Sunday morning and conditions should be good for the game, temps in the low 20’s.
A shame the game isn't on Saturday night. Would have been awesome to see another snow game.
I guess Philly's Josh McCown ripped his hamstring off the bone in the 2nd quarter last week vs. the Seahawks.
Imagine if they would have won.
It is nothing short of remarkable that it was a one possession game.
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I've been watching ticket prices on a downward fall since last night, but they leveled off a few hours ago and aren't moving. I'm hoping they fall again. The very cheapest were about $250 earlier this week. They are down under $180 now, and I saw some for $170 earlier. Might pull the trigger if I can score a pair for $125 each.
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Green Bay is expected to get 6-12 inches of snow Saturday evening into the overnight. They say the system will clear out Sunday morning and conditions should be good for the game, temps in the low 20’s.
A shame the game isn't on Saturday night. Would have been awesome to see another snow game.
I guess Philly's Josh McCown ripped his hamstring off the bone in the 2nd quarter last week vs. the Seahawks.
Imagine if they would have won.
It is nothing short of remarkable that it was a one possession game.
I agree ... a good snow game is always fun
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I've been watching ticket prices on a downward fall since last night, but they leveled off a few hours ago and aren't moving. I'm hoping they fall again. The very cheapest were about $250 earlier this week. They are down under $180 now, and I saw some for $170 earlier. Might pull the trigger if I can score a pair for $125 each.
As of the time I write this, the cheapest pair on Stubhub (with fees) is $223. It's slightly higher on Seatgeek. Good luck.
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Several cheaper on Vivid right now, which is where a lot of the season ticket holders here sell theirs.
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Several cheaper on Vivid right now, which is where a lot of the season ticket holders here sell theirs.
Vivid doesn't appear to allow you to show prices with fees until you get into the checkout process. A ticket listed at $182 gets a $52.72 service charge and a $2.50 electronic transfer fee added, so the real price of that $182 ticket is $237.22.
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The reality is that all of the aftermarket marketplaces are going to have pretty much the same seats at the same prices after fees. I prefer Tickpick which has no fees on the buyer side, but the prices are still the same as they would be anywhere else when it's all said and done. I just prefer the transparency.
There are 3700 tickets available for the game on the resell market, but they're mostly high end seats, likely from season ticket holders. The sub-$300 market is only around 600 tickets. I'd expect to see them lowering prices steadily before the game, but I suspect all of those tickets will get scarfed up as they pass various price points. I'd be surprised if any of them stuck around long enough to hit $125.
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Yeah, I know it's a longshot. I wasn't planning on going. But when I saw how much they suddenly dropped overnight, I thought I'd keep following and see.
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Prediction time:
49ers 31, Vikings 20
Titans 26, Ravens 24
Chiefs 34, Texans 24
Packers 20, Seahawks 17
I am sure most of these will be wrong. :lol
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Ok....
Niners over Vikings
Ravens over Titans
Chiefs over Texans
And please Packers over Seahawks
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And please Packers over Seahawks
Yeah, I don't think I can take another Niners/Hawks matchup. The last one shot my stress levels through the roof!
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Prediction time:
49ers 31, Vikings 20
Titans 26, Ravens 24
Chiefs 34, Texans 24
Packers 20, Seahawks 17
I am sure most of these will be wrong. :lol
I went the opposite direction, at least for today's picks. I'm SF/MIN+7 and Balt/Balt-9.5. I'm expecting one close game and one blowout.
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I'm sure I'll be dead wrong with my Titans upset pick, but I like what they have going on right now and Vrabel seems like he's got the team trending up, and I still think the Ravens already peaked (in November) and might be rusty tonight with it being their first "real" game in three weeks.
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All the home teams except the 49ers (who currently lead 7-0)
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Nice hearing Limelight going into the commercial break.
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I'm sure I'll be dead wrong with my Titans upset pick, but I like what they have going on right now and Vrabel seems like he's got the team trending up, and I still think the Ravens already peaked (in November) and might be rusty tonight with it being their first "real" game in three weeks.
Lots of excitement in Nashville. Would not be surprised if 2 of the 4 underdogs win this weekend.
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I'm sure I'll be dead wrong with my Titans upset pick, but I like what they have going on right now and Vrabel seems like he's got the team trending up, and I still think the Ravens already peaked (in November) and might be rusty tonight with it being their first "real" game in three weeks.
Lots of excitement in Nashville. Would not be surprised if 2 of the 4 underdogs win this weekend.
I know it won't impact tonight's game but it is interesting that the road team is 3-0 in Ravens/Titans playoff games.
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Who in the hell designed Levi Stadium?
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This game is a real snoozefest. Not a total blowout, but nothing interesting happening. Hopefully not an indication of what we're in for the rest of the weekend.
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Vikings hung in there for a bit, but a couple of turnovers and the 49ers relentless running attack have turned it into a laugher.
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For all of the rules that have made it a lot easier for offenses in today's NFL, it's good to see that defense still matters a lot in the playoffs. The last six playoff games have had scores of:
13-3
22-19
20-13
26-20
17-9
27-10
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I know that PI is almost never being called on challenges....but seriously. With 2 timeouts and the game nearly out of reach, give me one good reason to not throw the challenge flag on that play. Because he *definitely* grabbed his jersey with the ball in the air. I mean, the worst that can happen is they say no. But it was completely stupid not to at least try at that point.
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Holy Shit Titans!
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CBS wins the Rush clip battle with NBC. That part of Tom Sawyer is a great choice considering the circumstances.
Oh and football....this couldn't be a better start for the Titans. Will be interesting to see if the Ravens can come back. They haven't been behind much this season.
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Holy Shit Titans!
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I know he will be the MVP, but I am still apprehensive about Lamar Jackson as a passer. Felt like all year he had wide open guys because their running game was so good and he was almost always playing with a lead. We'll see how he does now with them trailing by 14 at home. The Titans look great so far.
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I'm sure I'll be dead wrong with my Titans upset pick...
Not bad so far.
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Long way to go, but I am not surprised at all by what I am seeing. I always get nervous about teams with a bye basically taking week 17 off, and the Titans have been playing well lately. This will be a fight to the finish.
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Not to pump the Pat's but Bill always played the starters knowing they had a bye week. I get you Kev.
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Not to pump the Pat's
Yeah, this isn't really the week to do that, Joe. :lol
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:lol
Hey, since they've won 6 SB's even Kev recognizes that. Lol
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Ravens fans three weeks ago: Yay, if we have to play the Patriots in the playoffs, we get them at home.
Ravens fans a week ago: Yay, we don't have to worry about playing the Patriots at all now.
Ravens fans 10 minutes ago: What, we are having trouble with Ryan Tannehill??
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Anyone know WTF this thing is called.....and where I can get one? :lol
(https://i.imgur.com/JtUK5Wj.jpg)
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I remember seeing some shops in San Francisco where I am guessing you could. But I stay away from those kinds of places / that part of town.
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I remember seeing some shops in San Francisco where I am guessing you could. But I stay away from those kinds of places / that part of town.
:lol
Damn, if I only had known... :lol
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What a trick play!
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What a drive by Derrick Henry
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The man is a beast.
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:clap:
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I think Tannehill is about to get Kirk Cousins type money.
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Titans are taking advantage of every opportunity.
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I think Tannehill is about to get Kirk Cousins type money.
The worst thing the Titans can do would be to overpay Tannehill in the off season.
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But giving up way too many plays this drive.
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The future of the NFL again is blown up. A QB that runs is not the future. I type this as an interception happens.
It pleases me.
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A thought on the Flacco/Jackson thing.
Flacco never had a regular season like Jackson did this year...
But so far.... January Joe is world's ahead of One and Done Lamar
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I'd like to apologize to the Titans for predicting they would win by only 2.
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:lol
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If you can't pass you will lose in the playoffs. Name me one running QB that won it all?
Especially in this day and age of protecting a QB.
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I'd like to apologize to the Titans for predicting they would win by only 2.
Lol at least you had the guts to pick em
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I'd like to apologize to the Titans for predicting they would win by only 2.
Lol at least you had the guts to pick em
If I had any real guts, I would have put real money on the Titans +9 tonight.
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Well, I called Lamar MVP and still think he was the MVP of the season, but also kind of expected this although I thought it would be at the hands of the Patriots not the Titans.
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I'd like to apologize to the Titans for predicting they would win by only 2.
Lol at least you had the guts to pick em
If I had any real guts, I would have put real money on the Titans +9 tonight.
I've never been a better. Fir me, it taints viewing the games.
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I've never been a better. Fir me, it taints viewing the games.
I used to bet games all the time in the 90's. Not anymore (except for the very rare game).
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I played the 4 teams/5 dollar route but never checked until after the 1 pm games finished.
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I bet Gerry Cooney against Larry Holmes for $5 in the 8th grade, and have never bet again.
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FYI, I have bet three games with a bookie in the 21st century.
One of them was the Patriots/Seahawks Super Bowl. I had the Patriots.
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I so watched that fight with my old man.
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Well, I think it’s safe to say that Mike Vrabel is a top candidate for coach of the year. Brought his team from a 2-4 record to the AFC Championship game. Outstanding!
:clap:
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Well, I think it’s safe to say that Mike Vrabel is a top candidate for coach of the year. Brought his team from a 2-4 record to the AFC Championship game. Outstanding!
:clap:
Beat the two best teams in the AFC. First 6th seed to make the AFC title game since in 10 years.
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Didn't get to watch, but from what I heard it seems the Niners handled their shit easily. Kind of stunned that the Ravens got rolled like that, very anxious to see the highlights from that game. The meeting I was in had a good deal of Niner fans and we were all quietly following the game in shock, we all thought Baltimore was the team to beat.
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I personally love it when a team and player who’ve been bequeathed the championship already due to them performing well in the regular season loses to a team that’s hungry.
Titans are hungry. Ravens looked mad that the Titans didn’t know that this was their year and shouldn’t be trying.
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I like the Titans chances against the chiefs or the Texans. They won at home against the chiefs this season. The chiefs defense was not good in that game. As for the Texans they won at Nashville and then Tennessee won at Houston without Watson playing for the Texans.
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Well , it was a better season for Baltimore than I expected. Wish they would have went down a little harder but the Pro Bowl is more their speed in the post season I guess. I guess I'm a Green Bay fan today and going forward if they win.
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I like the Titans chances against the chiefs or the Texans. They won at home against the chiefs this season. The chiefs defense was not good in that game. As for the Texans they won at Nashville and then Tennessee won at Houston without Watson playing for the Texans.
The Titans have done well vs the Chiefs the last few years in general, so I won't be surprised it all if the Chiefs win today and then lose next week to the Titans, who seem to have something special going on right now.
As for the Chiefs, it was around three months ago when things looked bleak. Mahomes got hurt on a QB sneak and it was unclear when he would return, yet here we are with them in the same situation they were in last year: a divisional win at home away from hosting the AFCCG.
I personally love it when a team and player who’ve been bequeathed the championship already due to them performing well in the regular season loses to a team that’s hungry.
Titans are hungry. Ravens looked mad that the Titans didn’t know that this was their year and shouldn’t be trying.
Agreed. I put last night's loss on John Harbaugh. The Ravens looked like a team that was ready for the coronation, and got punched in the face. When the whole team doesn't play well, I put that on coaching. Lamar Jackson will mostly get a pass from the media (and we know why, I don't have to say it), but for all of his greatness so far in the regular season, he has now played poorly in two postseason home losses.
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Geez, and to think the Pats scored more points against the Titans than the Ravens did, and allowed half as many points…..and still lost!
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Because you Boston fans love Patriots facts...
Tom Brady and Ryan Tannehill have now combined to win 32 postseason games.
Tom Brady and Derrick Henry have now combined to throw 74 TD passes in the postseason.
:P :P
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:lol
And to think if the Pats took care of business against the Fish at home they'd be playing today to go to another AFC CHAMPIONSHIP game that would have been played in Foxborough.
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And to think if the Pats took care of business against the Fish at home they'd be playing today to go to another AFC CHAMPIONSHIP game that would have been played in Foxborough.
Maybe, maybe not. Had KC been the 3 seed, who knows what would have happened in the first game in their game vs the Titans. Maybe KC wins that and would be playing at NE today, while Houston would have played at Baltimore last night.
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I did say playing for. No guarantees. But better to play at home.
Though you and I know the way the offense played this year it was iffy.
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Yep. Kinda funny though that Brady ended up leading his team to more points in his playoff loss than Jackson did in his.
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Yep. Kinda funny though that Brady ended up leading his team to more points in his playoff loss than Jackson did in his.
I just f'n said that!
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Honestly a shock. They way they played all season. But the playoff are a different beast.
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Yep. Kinda funny though that Brady ended up leading his team to more points in his playoff loss than Jackson did in his.
I just f'n said that!
The adults are talking. Go sit in the corner. :P
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I have GMF on right now, and they have a Rush book on the table in one of the shots.
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I have GMF on right now, and they have a Rush book on the table in one of the shots.
:tup
Still trying to process the hurt of the Ravens loss last night (and the news of the loss of Neil Peart the day before).
But, great memories along the way regarding both.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-patriots-edelman-arrested-for-misdemeanor-vandalism/ar-BBYSwiZ?li=BBnbfcL
:facepalm:
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Dumb, dumb, dumb.
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Seems the Browns are hiring Stefanski and passing on McDaniels.
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Seems the Browns are hiring Stefanski and passing on McDaniels.
:tup
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I don't hate the Ravens like I did when the murderer was still playing, but I loved that Titans win (even though the game was over fairly early).
I hope whoever wins the AFC wins the Super Bowl, and I don't really have a preference amoung the remaining AFC teams. If an NFC team is going to win, I'd prefer SF>>>GB>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SEA
Chiefs over Packers would be pretty cool.
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Seems the Browns are hiring Stefanski and passing on McDaniels.
There is always the possibility that they will consider McDaniels next year when they are looking for a new coach again.
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I tend to like the Chiefs over the Texans overall, but if you're asking me who I'd rather see advance, it would be a team with JJ Watt fighting from injury to come back over a team with Tyreek Hill.
Plus imagine how epic it would be for the city of Houston if they advance. I don't know if the Oilers ever hosted a conference championship game, but the Texans certainly haven't.... and what better opponent than the team that left town.
But these storylines and feelings matter not. There's a game to be played, and I think Mahomes and company get the job done, followed by the Packers beating the Seahawks.
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I don't know if the Oilers ever hosted a conference championship game
They hosted (and won) the 1960 AFL championship game and hosted (and lost) the 1962 AFL championship game. The did not host an AFC championship game (they lost twice on the road to Pittsburgh in 78 and 79).
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I don't know if the Oilers ever hosted a conference championship game
They hosted (and won) the 1960 AFL championship game and hosted (and lost) the 1962 AFL championship game. The did not host an AFC championship game (they lost twice on the road to Pittsburgh in 78 and 79).
I knew about the road losses at Pittsburgh, but not about the AFL stuff. Thanks!
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I don't know if the Oilers ever hosted a conference championship game
They hosted (and won) the 1960 AFL championship game and hosted (and lost) the 1962 AFL championship game.
Were you there? You didn't happen to run into Stadler did you?
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I don't hate the Ravens like I did when the murderer was still playing, but I loved that Titans win (even though the game was over fairly early).
I hope whoever wins the AFC wins the Super Bowl, and I don't really have a preference amoung the remaining AFC teams. If an NFC team is going to win, I'd prefer SF>>>GB>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SEA
Chiefs over Packers would be pretty cool.
Ray Ray , The General. He's spiritual now. He ( or someone ) didn't do anything that didn't need to be done from what I've read about " the victim " .
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And I thought the Titans got off to a great start. Houston jumps out to a 14-0 lead.
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Holy Shit Titans! Texans!
Updated.
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Not the time and place to fumble a punt.
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The Chiefs are not ready. Two key 3rd down drops that would've converted.
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Mahomes’ receivers are just going in dry, including on returns. WTH.
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WTF kind of game is this?
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This game is insane, and wildly entertaining, and it's not even halftime.
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KC coming back. Tennessee would have a better chance against KC than Houston.
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What a crazy game so far and we still have 6:30 left in the 2nd quarter!
Talk about momentum shift.
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Wtf just happened....28 pts in 6 minutes? Fucking brilliant :lol
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I've said for years that Bill O'Brien is a doofus.
The prosecution rests.
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Bill O'Brien let the Cheifs get the momentum back.
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Dead on.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3JNv3G7S/20200112-165823.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w7KvV71L)
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Bold prediction: Ravens do not make the Super Bowl.
I don't remember who said this, but the man is a genius.
Now, if only the Texans can climb back out of their own asses, and I'll be content for the rest of the playoff season. I didn't really want Tannehill to win a Super Bowl, but if he does, so be it; he'll have beaten good teams to get there.
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This is an all-time performance by Mahomes. Unbelievable.
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Any chance Bill O'Brien and Josh McDaniels switch jobs this off season?
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KC cannot afford to get down 14 or more to the Titans and expect to win. Should be a good game next week.
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KC cannot afford to get down 14 or more to the Titans and expect to win. Should be a good game next week.
Agreed, the Chiefs cannot come out and sleep walk through the first quarter next week like they did today. They will need a full 60 minutes to beat the Titans.
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And here's hoping they don't. Not a fan. Don't like Reid, don't like Mahomes - that stupid smile when a flag goes down is getting old fast - and don't particularly care for Kelce.
I like Romo a lot - one of my favorite announcers right now - but I'm probably turning the sound off after this commercial, because I'm just soooooo tired of Jim Nance fellating Mahomes. The Texans have the ball, Watson is moving the offense, and he's yammering on about Mahomes.
On another note, what are the chances that Deshaun Watson ends up in New England if and when Tom decides he needs to sow oats elsewhere?
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Bill O'Brien blew that game for his team. He killed their momentum.
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On another note, what are the chances that Deshaun Watson ends up in New England if and when Tom decides he needs to sow oats elsewhere?
The price tag is way too high. Houston gets him for 4.5 next year and a reasonable 14 if they pick up their 5th year option. NE doesn't have enough trade stock to pry him away from Houston.
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How any of us caught Joe Buck's Weird Science reference? :lol
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I don't know if the Oilers ever hosted a conference championship game
They hosted (and won) the 1960 AFL championship game and hosted (and lost) the 1962 AFL championship game.
Were you there? You didn't happen to run into Stadler did you?
LOL...I was negative years old then. Perhaps a past life thing.
That Chiefs game was total nuts. Someone forgot to tell the Chiefs what time the game started, and someone else convinced the Texans that the game was only 15 minutes long.
Now...go Packers! So far, so good.
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Looks like the refs have changed from Seahawks jerseys to Packers jerseys. ::)
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You guys catch Spirit Of Radio going to the break after the Lockett TD?
Oh, and why not go for 2 and make it a 10 point deficit?
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Someone in the NFL in a big position is a Rush fan. Heartwarming.
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I have GMF on right now, and they have a Rush book on the table in one of the shots.
They’ve also played Rush songs before commercial breaks at least once in each of the games this weekend. :tup
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Well, defense screwed that up.
Good game though, knew it'd be a rough game.
Now for the Niners to beat the Packs.
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Packers just held on.
I think the Titans at Chiefs will be a good game.
I prefer the 49ers over the Packers, but I'll be pulling for either AFC team over either NFC team.
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You know, if Carroll let Russell Wilson play 4 quarters the Seahawks probably win. Guy is just determined to run that prehistoric offense. And #17 for the Seahawks is a giant douche for dropping that pass. Oh well, go Packers.
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The stadium also played Alice In Chains during the first quarter haha.
Yea D wasn't good enough. I'm hoping for Pack vs. Titans.
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Whatever SB matchup we ultimately get, it will easily be the least interesting one for me since XLIV (Saints/Colts) or maybe even XLI (Colts/Bears).
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Ok, I only missed one of my predictions that round (Baltimore). Let's see how I do for the rest...
Niners over Packers (duh)
And this one I think will be a 'last possession' game, but Chefs over Titans
And for the SB, Niners over Chefs (great googly moogly)
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We are going to get a rematch of SBI, and KC will win its first SB in 50 years.
Calling it now.
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Pretty cool Jimmy Johnson moment at halftime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HPajoFbOJA&t
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Pretty cool Jimmy Johnson moment at halftime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HPajoFbOJA&t
I enjoyed that. He was clearly moved, and the cut to Troy Aikman was powerful enough that I got choked up.
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And here's hoping they don't. Not a fan. Don't like Reid, don't like Mahomes - that stupid smile when a flag goes down is getting old fast - and don't particularly care for Kelce.
I like Romo a lot - one of my favorite announcers right now - but I'm probably turning the sound off after this commercial, because I'm just soooooo tired of Jim Nance fellating Mahomes. The Texans have the ball, Watson is moving the offense, and he's yammering on about Mahomes.
On another note, what are the chances that Deshaun Watson ends up in New England if and when Tom decides he needs to sow oats elsewhere?
Man Stads I agree with you on almost everything, but Mahomes is the man. Not only does he throw the prettiest ball ever, he seems like a genuinely good person and leader. Why wouldn't he smile if he get's a flag. It's good for his team!
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Patriots fans are literally the only people on earth who don’t like Mahomes.
Bill O’Brien HAS to be fired. And I know it will never happen, but Pete Carroll has to be fired too for always holding back his best player until he’s down 3 scores.
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I love Mahomes!!
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Patriots fans are literally the only people on earth who don’t like Mahomes.
Bill O’Brien HAS to be fired. And I know it will never happen, but Pete Carroll has to be fired too for always holding back his best player until he’s down 3 scores.
The Carroll/Wilson situation reminds of the Reeves/Elway one in Denver in the 80's. Keeps the shackles on the stud QB for most of the game, but takes them off at the end when you have no other choice. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
As for Mahomes, some (see: SOME) Patriots fans over the years have hated ANY QB compared to TB12. For years, it was Peyton Manning. Then he retired, and A. Rodgers was hyped as the best QB, so the hate came flying in for him. And then last year the hate for Mahomes kicked in because of how awesome he is and how much (deserved) hype he got. Heck, I am a Broncos fan and should hate everything about the KC Chiefs, but I can't hate Mahomes; he is just too fun to watch.
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I haven't really seen that, but what do I know. With Manning there was a legitimate Colts-Patriots rivalry, so it only makes sense to take issue with Manning. Personally, once he got past his choking phases, I generally regarded Manning as the better QB. I never hated the guy outside of wanting him to lose. It really wasn't until the latter years, when Manning started to suck at the same time Brady was consistently taking over games that my calculus changed. I don't hate St. Rodgers. I was just annoyed that he was essentially designated the new Jesus before he actually did anything. And like you said, Mahomes is too much fun to watch for me to hate. It's just that, like Jackson, he needs to do this for a while before I'll really think all that highly of him. So far there's only been one Brett Favre.
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This week:
Packers at 49ers
Titans at Chiefs
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Pretty cool Jimmy Johnson moment at halftime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HPajoFbOJA&t
I caught that live. My first thought that it was pretty cheesy, but then I changed my mind after seeing how choked up JJ was (and yes, the cut to Aikman was very cool). I heard they did something similar with Bill Cowher on whatever network he's on, but I didn't see it.
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Patriots fans are literally the only people on earth who don’t like Mahomes.
Bill O’Brien HAS to be fired. And I know it will never happen, but Pete Carroll has to be fired too for always holding back his best player until he’s down 3 scores.
The Carroll/Wilson situation reminds of the Reeves/Elway one in Denver in the 80's. Keeps the shackles on the stud QB for most of the game, but takes them off at the end when you have no other choice. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
As for Mahomes, some (see: SOME) Patriots fans over the years have hated ANY QB compared to TB12. For years, it was Peyton Manning. Then he retired, and A. Rodgers was hyped as the best QB, so the hate came flying in for him. And then last year the hate for Mahomes kicked in because of how awesome he is and how much (deserved) hype he got. Heck, I am a Broncos fan and should hate everything about the KC Chiefs, but I can't hate Mahomes; he is just too fun to watch.
Peyton and Brady was a head to head thing in their prime.I never hated him but loved to see him fail. Just like other fans like to see Brady fail. I get that.
Now Mahomes? I have not heard one New Englander (where I live) hate on him. We are scared of him. Extreme talent. Besides. We hate other players on that team. :lol
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Loooooooong-time Titans/Oilers die-hard here. Been a fan ever since Thanksgiving Day 1988 (vs. Dallas), when I first saw the team on TV, led by (the incredible) Warren Moon and then-coach Jerry Glanville's "Red Gun" offense. Prior to that day I had no favorite NFL team, and despite living in Southern California, it was Oiler (and later Titan) Blue from that day forward.
Though there have been some highlights, it has NOT been easy being a Titans fan over the years. Lots of disappointments, lots of blown opportunities, lots of bad luck (Titans win 3 games in 2 years, yet Colts have ONE bad year with Peyton Manning hurt and get to draft Andrew Luck as his replacement... things like that have been unbelievably unjust/unfair). Lots of mediocrity. And some downright AWFUL years too. And when the Titans HAVE been good (or even really good)... nobody cares. Small market team, not flashy style, never on national TV, etc. (seriously, I NEVER get to see them live because I have to stream every game after-the-fact with GamePass), announcers literally not knowing the players' names (or how to pronounce them), pro-bowl snubs, no team gear in stores, etc. So "my team" is a perennial afterthought- no one watches them and everyone is stunned whenever they do anything. I literally only know one other fan- my younger brother (who chose them as his team too because I did way back when).
So...
I am loving this stretch. Just enjoying each week for what it is. No smack talk, no hype, no proclamations that the Titans will win it all, no chest-thumping, no counting any unhatched chickens, etc. Not my style, and not the team's style. I've been burned way too many times as a fan, and the team has blown their own foot off more times than I can count.
BUT- it also wouldn't surprise me if the Titans do go all the way. The team is clearly capable of beating ANYONE, and has a very good track record in recent years of doing so (their losses are usually at the hands of bad/terrible teams). They are literally built for a stretch run like this. It is lots of fun to see the rest of fandom (and analysts, talking heads, etc.) who have spent the vast majority of my entire football-following life talking about anyone other than my team, suddenly have MY TEAM thrust in front of their eyeballs. Not in a cocky way- just finally getting to claim my small share of the joy and excitement (and spotlight!) that "everyone else" (ok, except maybe Browns fans) have gotten to experience multiple times (and some of you an embarrassingly disproportionately high number of times) over the years.
So, enjoy the last 3 games, everyone. 4 really good teams left. I honestly like my Titans against any of 'em. But it's all gravy from here anyway. I'm excited to see how it plays out, and tip my hat to whoever comes out on top.
Go Titans!
(PS- Derrick Henry is literally a man among boys, and I LOVE watching him do his thing. Win or lose, this is special stuff.)
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Patriots fans are literally the only people on earth who don’t like Mahomes.
Bill O’Brien HAS to be fired. And I know it will never happen, but Pete Carroll has to be fired too for always holding back his best player until he’s down 3 scores.
The Carroll/Wilson situation reminds of the Reeves/Elway one in Denver in the 80's. Keeps the shackles on the stud QB for most of the game, but takes them off at the end when you have no other choice. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
As for Mahomes, some (see: SOME) Patriots fans over the years have hated ANY QB compared to TB12. For years, it was Peyton Manning. Then he retired, and A. Rodgers was hyped as the best QB, so the hate came flying in for him. And then last year the hate for Mahomes kicked in because of how awesome he is and how much (deserved) hype he got. Heck, I am a Broncos fan and should hate everything about the KC Chiefs, but I can't hate Mahomes; he is just too fun to watch.
Has NOTHING to do with "Patriots", or "TB12" or whatever. There are plenty of QBs I like and of whom I sing the praises - Brees, Watson, Garoppolo, Mayfield (someday, potentially), Bridgewater, Manning (for his career, not now), Jones (someday, potentially), Trubiskey (someday, potentially), Rodgers, Hill, Wilson.
This also applies to NON-QBs. There are plenty of non-quarterbacks that get lauded as the "next LT", or the "next Emmett Smith", and when the hype and hyperbole settle back down - and guys like Belichick, Phillips, Spagnuolo, Crennel, Martindale have a crack at 'em - we realize they are one of many, many, many hundreds of good players that have played in the league. Coaches, too: Sean McVay (I'm sure there are some here that would put Sean Payton in that room as well). Le'veon Bell got ahead of his skiis, wanted to be "paid", and found out that it takes a village. That's not exactly Mahomes, but it's the same idea. And the Nance's and Tessitore's of the world don't help that. I get that they are tasked with building energy and excitement in the games they are broadcasting, but it's getting ridiculous at times.
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This week:
Packers at 49ers
Titans at Chiefs
Packers at 49ers
Titans at Chiefs
Just happy there are some different teams in the mix
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This week:
Packers at 49ers
Titans at Chiefs
The Joe Montana Super Bowl. I'd watch that.
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Here's a baffling statement about Aaron Rodgers:
In terms of statistics, ability and sheer ways he can, and often does, beat opponents, there is a reasonable case to be made that Rodgers is the greatest quarterback, or certainly among the greatest, to ever play in the NFL.
Source: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/green-bay-aaron-rodgers-greatest-qb-last-shot-super-bowl-043859742.html
Rodgers, as "greatest quarterback . . . to ever play in the NFL?" Really? He's not even the best to play since the time he entered the league, let alone ignoring guys like Montana. I don't think he can credibly be put in front of Brady, Payton Manning, or Brees. He's arguably somewhere in the pool with guys like Eli, Big Ben, Favre, and Rivers (although I wouldn't object to placing him at the top of that list). But greatest ever? ??? As much as I like the Packers and Rodgers, and I respect his incredible abilities, I don't know how that writer could say that with a straight face.
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Here's a baffling statement about Aaron Rodgers:
In terms of statistics, ability and sheer ways he can, and often does, beat opponents, there is a reasonable case to be made that Rodgers is the greatest quarterback, or certainly among the greatest, to ever play in the NFL.
Source: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/green-bay-aaron-rodgers-greatest-qb-last-shot-super-bowl-043859742.html
Rodgers, as "greatest quarterback . . . to ever play in the NFL?" Really? He's not even the best to play since the time he entered the league, let alone ignoring guys like Montana. I don't think he can credibly be put in front of Brady, Payton Manning, or Brees. He's arguably somewhere in the pool with guys like Eli, Big Ben, Favre, and Rivers (although I wouldn't object to placing him at the top of that list). But greatest ever? ??? As much as I like the Packers and Rodgers, and I respect his incredible abilities, I don't know how that writer could say that with a straight face.
Yeah....he's really good and has had some great moments but 'greatest ever' isn't even remotely close......especially since John Elway holds that title :biggrin:
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Rodgers....a great QB, and definitely the greatest Hail Mary QB of all time. I'll stop there.
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Loooooooong-time Titans/Oilers die-hard here. Been a fan ever since Thanksgiving Day 1988 (vs. Dallas), when I first saw the team on TV, led by (the incredible) Warren Moon and then-coach Jerry Glanville's "Red Gun" offense. Prior to that day I had no favorite NFL team, and despite living in Southern California, it was Oiler (and later Titan) Blue from that day forward.
Though there have been some highlights, it has NOT been easy being a Titans fan over the years. Lots of disappointments, lots of blown opportunities, lots of bad luck (Titans win 3 games in 2 years, yet Colts have ONE bad year with Peyton Manning hurt and get to draft Andrew Luck as his replacement... things like that have been unbelievably unjust/unfair). Lots of mediocrity. And some downright AWFUL years too. And when the Titans HAVE been good (or even really good)... nobody cares. Small market team, not flashy style, never on national TV, etc. (seriously, I NEVER get to see them live because I have to stream every game after-the-fact with GamePass), announcers literally not knowing the players' names (or how to pronounce them), pro-bowl snubs, no team gear in stores, etc. So "my team" is a perennial afterthought- no one watches them and everyone is stunned whenever they do anything. I literally only know one other fan- my younger brother (who chose them as his team too because I did way back when).
So...
I am loving this stretch. Just enjoying each week for what it is. No smack talk, no hype, no proclamations that the Titans will win it all, no chest-thumping, no counting any unhatched chickens, etc. Not my style, and not the team's style. I've been burned way too many times as a fan, and the team has blown their own foot off more times than I can count.
BUT- it also wouldn't surprise me if the Titans do go all the way. The team is clearly capable of beating ANYONE, and has a very good track record in recent years of doing so (their losses are usually at the hands of bad/terrible teams). They are literally built for a stretch run like this. It is lots of fun to see the rest of fandom (and analysts, talking heads, etc.) who have spent the vast majority of my entire football-following life talking about anyone other than my team, suddenly have MY TEAM thrust in front of their eyeballs. Not in a cocky way- just finally getting to claim my small share of the joy and excitement (and spotlight!) that "everyone else" (ok, except maybe Browns fans) have gotten to experience multiple times (and some of you an embarrassingly disproportionately high number of times) over the years.
So, enjoy the last 3 games, everyone. 4 really good teams left. I honestly like my Titans against any of 'em. But it's all gravy from here anyway. I'm excited to see how it plays out, and tip my hat to whoever comes out on top.
Go Titans!
(PS- Derrick Henry is literally a man among boys, and I LOVE watching him do his thing. Win or lose, this is special stuff.)
Nice post! Glad to see a Titans here if only to mix it up a little. :tup :tup
I haven't really seen that, but what do I know. With Manning there was a legitimate Colts-Patriots rivalry, so it only makes sense to take issue with Manning. Personally, once he got past his choking phases, I generally regarded Manning as the better QB. I never hated the guy outside of wanting him to lose. It really wasn't until the latter years, when Manning started to suck at the same time Brady was consistently taking over games that my calculus changed. I don't hate St. Rodgers. I was just annoyed that he was essentially designated the new Jesus before he actually did anything. And like you said, Mahomes is too much fun to watch for me to hate. It's just that, like Jackson, he needs to do this for a while before I'll really think all that highly of him. So far there's only been one Brett Favre.
Rodgers had done plenty when he was "annointed" right after Peyton's retirement - 1 Super Bowl win, 1 Super Bowl MVP, 2 regular season MVP awards. It just smacks of some fans getting pissy about anyone being compared to their beloved Tom.
Peyton and Brady was a head to head thing in their prime.I never hated him but loved to see him fail. Just like other fans like to see Brady fail. I get that.
Now Mahomes? I have not heard one New Englander (where I live) hate on him. We are scared of him. Extreme talent. Besides. We hate other players on that team. :lol
And throw beer on them... :P :P
Has NOTHING to do with "Patriots", or "TB12" or whatever. There are plenty of QBs I like and of whom I sing the praises - Brees, Watson, Garoppolo, Mayfield (someday, potentially), Bridgewater, Manning (for his career, not now), Jones (someday, potentially), Trubiskey (someday, potentially), Rodgers, Hill, Wilson.
This also applies to NON-QBs. There are plenty of non-quarterbacks that get lauded as the "next LT", or the "next Emmett Smith", and when the hype and hyperbole settle back down - and guys like Belichick, Phillips, Spagnuolo, Crennel, Martindale have a crack at 'em - we realize they are one of many, many, many hundreds of good players that have played in the league. Coaches, too: Sean McVay (I'm sure there are some here that would put Sean Payton in that room as well). Le'veon Bell got ahead of his skiis, wanted to be "paid", and found out that it takes a village. That's not exactly Mahomes, but it's the same idea. And the Nance's and Tessitore's of the world don't help that. I get that they are tasked with building energy and excitement in the games they are broadcasting, but it's getting ridiculous at times.
The media loves hyperbole for sure, but we've been over this before, and I see nothing wrong with enjoying greatness in the moment even if it turns out to be fleeting. Heck, Tebow was a total flash in the pan, but I enjoyed the hell out of the latter half of the 2011 season.
Here's a baffling statement about Aaron Rodgers:
In terms of statistics, ability and sheer ways he can, and often does, beat opponents, there is a reasonable case to be made that Rodgers is the greatest quarterback, or certainly among the greatest, to ever play in the NFL.
Source: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/green-bay-aaron-rodgers-greatest-qb-last-shot-super-bowl-043859742.html
Rodgers, as "greatest quarterback . . . to ever play in the NFL?" Really? He's not even the best to play since the time he entered the league, let alone ignoring guys like Montana. I don't think he can credibly be put in front of Brady, Payton Manning, or Brees. He's arguably somewhere in the pool with guys like Eli, Big Ben, Favre, and Rivers (although I wouldn't object to placing him at the top of that list). But greatest ever? ??? As much as I like the Packers and Rodgers, and I respect his incredible abilities, I don't know how that writer could say that with a straight face.
I think he is certainly among the all-time greats. He has won a Super Bowl, he was the MVP in that Super Bowl, he has won multiple regular season MVP awards, and has the stats to back up greatness talk (his TD to INT ratio is borderline ridiculous). Eli and Ben have more Super Bowls wins than him, but they don't come close to Rodgers on the greatest ever scale, and neither does Rivers, IMO. Note that Rodgers was one of the 12 honorable mentions on the NFL 100 thing, while those three were not, so the "experts" who came up with that list thought Rodgers was in the 11-22 range all-time. Of course Namath making the honorable mentions is a joke, but still, Eli, Ben and Rivers were not among the 22 QB's listed, and for good reason.
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I haven't really seen that, but what do I know. With Manning there was a legitimate Colts-Patriots rivalry, so it only makes sense to take issue with Manning. Personally, once he got past his choking phases, I generally regarded Manning as the better QB. I never hated the guy outside of wanting him to lose. It really wasn't until the latter years, when Manning started to suck at the same time Brady was consistently taking over games that my calculus changed. I don't hate St. Rodgers. I was just annoyed that he was essentially designated the new Jesus before he actually did anything. And like you said, Mahomes is too much fun to watch for me to hate. It's just that, like Jackson, he needs to do this for a while before I'll really think all that highly of him. So far there's only been one Brett Favre.
Rodgers had done plenty when he was "annointed" right after Peyton's retirement - 1 Super Bowl win, 1 Super Bowl MVP, 2 regular season MVP awards. It just smacks of some fans getting pissy about anyone being compared to their beloved Tom.
Rodgers was anointed the day Favre retired. I've been calling him St. Rodgers for that long based on all of the people who "knew" he was going to be great before he was even the starter. In retrospect the expectations were very well founded. He's lived up to the hype and then some, and while he certainly doesn't sound like my kind of guy (in fact he sounds like a real dick) I've got nothing but respect for him as a quarterback. More than Bosk, apparently.
And for the record, he's not my beloved Tom.
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Although he will never be in the same league as Brady when all is said and done, I'm willing to call Rogers a modern great on the condition that Packers fans praise him while finally acknowledging that Favre was the most overrated quarterback in history.
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Favre was the most overrated quarterback in history.
Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I about did a spit-take when I heard the NFL put him in the top 100 list.
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Just bear with me on this post a little bit, and then give me some feedback please. I'm aggressively attacking the losing efforts of O'Brien and Carroll. The fact that those guys still have jobs after actively trying and succeeding to lose games yesterday tells me their GMs and owners don't know a lot about football. The fact that the majority of mainstream sports media and a large portion of less-knowledgeable fanbase aren't more up in arms about them tells me we still have a long way to go.
I'll start with Carroll. If you're a great coach, you adopt your game plan based on circumstances. The Seahawks lost all their running backs to injury, so what should the strategy be? Unleash the 2nd best QB in the league from the get-go, or pound a twice-retired guy you hired this week into the teeth of the defense for 1 yard at a time? Yes I know Schottenheimer calls plays. The thing is, Carroll is so frigging stubborn he refuses to change even after the Seahawks fall behind over and over again. NOW THE WORST, BY FAR: the punt late in the fourth quarter. His punt team, if they had any balls, should have mutinied and told him "screw that, let Russ make a play". Of course they never got the ball back. What was Carroll's brilliant strategy? His strategy was "hope" his shitty defense could prevent the opposing HOF QB and his all-world receiver (who had been torching them all game) wouldn't be able to make a first down to run out the clock. His lame excuse of course was that it was 4th and 11. Well, there are plenty of plays in the playbook for 2nd and 11 and 3rd and 11. Why can't you use them on 4th and 11? Just a gutless, pathetic display. I sure would have more faith in Wilson, Lockett and Metcalf making a play then in stopping Rodgers. After the game Carroll said he had no thought about going for it. WTH? You're trying to WIN, not prove your antiquated coaching style is legit. What a douche.
Now O'Brien. He has just a bad of a history as Carroll, and he also has an all-world QB at his disposal. In the first half, we saw him hesitate, panic, then waste a timeout and kick a chicken-shit field goal on 4th and 1 from the 13, already up 21 points. So he increased his lead from 3 possessions to, uh, 3 possessions. He said they 'didn't have a play ready". Well that's a fire-able offense right there. Then later in the half he punted again from KC's side of the field. By the way, Carroll's punt in the 4th quarter reduced their chance of winning the game from like 20% down to 5%. Again, these are the people you are paying huge amounts of money to make winning decisions for your team. If they refuse to move away from a chicken-shit cowardly prehistoric approach to the game then they need to be replaced. Their fan bases deserve better. I'm not even a fan of these teams but I understand their fans' pain because I have to live with Tomlin's crazy inconsistent decision making.
Oh and it's not just me. I could link to several sites excoriating these coaches. One example:
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2020/1/13/21063245/exit-interview-seattle-seahawks-pete-carroll-russell-wilson
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Rodgers was anointed the day Favre retired. I've been calling him St. Rodgers for that long based on all of the people who "knew" he was going to be great before he was even the starter. In retrospect the expectations were very well founded. He's lived up to the hype and then some, and while he certainly doesn't sound like my kind of guy (in fact he sounds like a real dick) I've got nothing but respect for him as a quarterback. More than Bosk, apparently.
And for the record, he's not my beloved Tom.
I don't think there is any doubt that Rodgers is a major dick.
Favre was the most overrated quarterback in history.
Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I about did a spit-take when I heard the NFL put him in the top 100 list.
Favre at his best was so great that I suspect the voters overlooked the bad and focused on just the good. I mean, did anyone other QB win 3 regular season MVP awards in a row? I know he shared the last one with Barry Sanders, but that was pretty amazing.
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By the way, apologies to Patriots fans on this board. When I say “Patriots fans” I don’t mean you guys. You guys are knowledgeable and unbiased and level headed. I’m judging too much by the stuff I read on their forum.
I do have a serious question though: if during the past 20 years Belichick had one of either Brees, Manning, or Rodgers do you think he wins the same amount of Super Bowls, fewer, or more? Interesting question because Rodgers at least would have done a better job of eluding the Giants’ pass rush in 2007 and 2011 and making the 1 or 2 necessary plays to take the lead. All 3 were as good as Brady at throwing the ball, and Manning was just as good pre-snap. This isn’t to take anything away from Brady by the way, he played in those games and gave a superior effort most of the time. Just wondering because this is exactly the kind of question that would elicit crazy responses on the pats forum.
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It's hard to say. Maybe Rogers makes a play in 2011 for the Pats, but does he lead them back from 28-3?
Now you're getting into the whole Belichick vs Brady argument, and well, if you really want to tie yourself in a knot, go for it! :lol
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Pretty cool Jimmy Johnson moment at halftime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HPajoFbOJA&t
I caught that live. My first thought that it was pretty cheesy, but then I changed my mind after seeing how choked up JJ was (and yes, the cut to Aikman was very cool). I heard they did something similar with Bill Cowher on whatever network he's on, but I didn't see it.
On paper it seems like it should have been more cheesy than it turned out to be. I have seen videos of that guy personally letting other inductees know of the honor, and have seen videos of MLB players getting the phone call about their induction. Seems like a thing now.
Regarding Jimmy, it was neat they cut to the camera on him to get his reaction when the guy walked in, and to see the look on the other guys faces, as it seemed they really were not in on it, (or are really good actors).
If Jimmy gets bored with that Fox gig, he should learn Bill Clinton's accent, and be an impersonator. He is looking more and more like him.
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Brees or Peyton, you could easily argue the Patriots would have just as many. Rodgers, for all of his talent, I will say no. I don't think his personality would mesh with Belichick at all.
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I think Brady was a much better younger QB. it took a while for Manning to break through, and not including the Broncos, he only did it once with the Colts. I find Brees a bit overrated. Manning you could convince me, but not Brees.
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I think Brady was a much better younger QB. it took a while for Manning to break through, and not including the Broncos, he only did it once with the Colts. I find Brees a bit overrated. Manning you could convince me, but not Brees.
I don't agree regarding Peyton and Brady. Brady won Super Bowls early in his career, but those teams were loaded on defense. I always said he was like Troy Aikman; he became a really great QB around '05-06. Peyton was great early on, but didn't win a title till '06 because he never had a defense that was good enough. Keep in mind that Manning was All-Pro 1st team in '03, '04 and '05, three years in a row. Brady has only ever been All-Pro 1st team three times EVER (vs 7 times for Peyton).
The thing about Brees is some like to say he would have won more if he had better defenses, which might be true, but then if he did, he wouldn't have put up the crazy numbers he did and wouldn't have the records he now holds, since he would have been in far fewer shootouts. As great as Brees has been, I've never watched him and thought, "He is the best QB in football," like I did when watching Brady, Manning and Rodgers at various points in their careers.
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I think Brady was a much better younger QB. it took a while for Manning to break through, and not including the Broncos, he only did it once with the Colts. I find Brees a bit overrated. Manning you could convince me, but not Brees.
I don't agree regarding Peyton and Brady. Brady won Super Bowls early in his career, but those teams were loaded on defense. I always said he was like Troy Aikman; he became a really great QB around '05-06. Peyton was great early on, but didn't win a title till '06 because he never had a defense that was good enough. Keep in mind that Manning was All-Pro 1st team in '03, '04 and '05, three years in a row. Brady has only ever been All-Pro 1st team three times EVER (vs 7 times for Peyton).
Well, first, like I said, I could be convinced on Manning. But I saw too many of those early '00s games against the Pats were Manning threw picks. The Colts were right there, but they just couldn't beat the Pats. Manning had great stats, playing at least half of those games in a dome. But when it came to nut cutting time, he never got it done.
Secondly, Aikman is underrated. Sorry.
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Well, first, like I said, I could be convinced on Manning. But I saw too many of those early '00s games against the Pats were Manning threw picks. The Colts were right there, but they just couldn't beat the Pats. Manning had great stats, playing at least half of those games in a dome. But when it came to nut cutting time, he never got it done.
Secondly, Aikman is underrated. Sorry.
Eh, he is rated properly. He got into the Hall because of his rings, but he was never really a great QB or one that could put a team on his back and carry them. Notice that he never did well the seasons in which Dallas wasn't loaded with Hall of Famers. He was the 90's version of Terry Bradshaw.
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That's selling him short, man.
He's no less a HOFer than anyone else on that team. Maybe Irving wouldn't be a HOFer if he didn't have Aikman throwing to him...
You're going to make me real mad over this. :lol
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Haha, to be clear, I think Aikman was very good. Not great, but very good. He was the perfect QB for that Dallas team, since he was highly efficient and rarely tried to do too much; very much a team guy, which is what that loaded team needed.
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This guys has Aikman rated #3 of the 90's..
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/181276800/nine-best-quarterbacks-1990s-nfl-alway-young
I think you wrote the text. :lol
So you're the 3rd best behind Elway and Young. That's pretty good. He was the perfect guy for that team. Stats don't always tell the story.
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This guys has Aikman rated #3 of the 90's..
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/181276800/nine-best-quarterbacks-1990s-nfl-alway-young
I think you wrote the text. :lol
So you're the 3rd best behind Elway and Young. That's pretty good. He was the perfect guy for that team. Stats don't always tell the story.
Agreed, but I don't know how on God's green earth Favre isn't one of the 3 best QB's for the 90's when he was the MVP three times.
I would say Aikman was the 4th best QB of the 90's behind Favre, Young and Elway (in that order).
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Lot of things going on here.
Favre is one of the greats. He wasn't a technically sound QB, he wasn't the brightest bulb on the tree, but he had a way of making his teams better and winning games he shouldn't have (I'm also partial because of the "Dad" game).
I would out Aikman as "underrated" to the extent you say he was lucky or was the benefactor of Smith and Irvin. I think he was the perfect QB for that team. I do not believe, for example, that Phillip Rivers would have won three Super Bowls with that team.
I don't know about the Brees/Manning/Brady question. I think they might win some games with Brees/Manning that they lost with Brady, and vice versa. I think they would be a different team, and it's foolhardy to try to guess what those teams would look like. One thing I do know about Brady - and why he's my choice for GOAT - is/was that he's capable of winning every way short of him having to rush for 150 yards a game. He is/was capable of beating you in a 49-42 shootout, and in a 13-7 ball-control ground-hog smash-mouth game. This is how Montana won, this is how Bradshaw won. This is why those guys are in the pantheon of greats, and the various stat-collectors (you can fill in the blanks here) are not.
I'm a big fan of team synergy. Clubhouse. Locker-room. I think sustained greatness is more than the sum of the parts (this applies to bands as well). I think the really great runs - the Montana/Young Niners, the Bradshaw Steelers, the Manning Colts, certainly the Brady Patriots - are more than just "great athletes" and more than just "great coaches". I think this is evident in teams that get close and no cigar - the Falcons, the Panthers from 2015, the Tomlin Steelers. I personally don't really believe the hype about Brady and his "frustration". I believe he IS frustrated, but I don't think it's as base as "ego". Maybe that's naive; I don't know.
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I'm a big fan of team synergy. Clubhouse. Locker-room. I think sustained greatness is more than the sum of the parts (this applies to bands as well). I think the really great runs - the Montana/Young Niners...
To take the 49ers as an example, Steve Young and Brent Jones are on local radio here at least once a week during football season, and it is evident in listening to those guys talk what kind of chemistry the 49ers locker room in the '80s and early '90s had. Both of them are a riot, and so relatable. But beyond that, even though I've heard them talk for years now, they are ALWAYS throwing out new stories I haven't heard before of this thing that happened at practice, or this other think that came up in a team meeting, or that thing that happened during a game, and it is just so obvious from listening to them talk that there was an incredible chemistry between teammates, and between teammates and coaches, during that period.
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Favre was the most overrated quarterback in history.
Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I about did a spit-take when I heard the NFL put him in the top 100 list.
Favre at his best was so great that I suspect the voters overlooked the bad and focused on just the good. I mean, did anyone other QB win 3 regular season MVP awards in a row? I know he shared the last one with Barry Sanders, but that was pretty amazing.
Pretty damn hard to ignore that he is the most intercepted QB in NFL history. And the MVP awards simply bolster the overrated argument.
Pretty cool Jimmy Johnson moment at halftime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HPajoFbOJA&t
I caught that live. My first thought that it was pretty cheesy, but then I changed my mind after seeing how choked up JJ was (and yes, the cut to Aikman was very cool). I heard they did something similar with Bill Cowher on whatever network he's on, but I didn't see it.
On paper it seems like it should have been more cheesy than it turned out to be. I have seen videos of that guy personally letting other inductees know of the honor, and have seen videos of MLB players getting the phone call about their induction. Seems like a thing now.
Regarding Jimmy, it was neat they cut to the camera on him to get his reaction when the guy walked in, and to see the look on the other guys faces, as it seemed they really were not in on it, (or are really good actors).
If Jimmy gets bored with that Fox gig, he should learn Bill Clinton's accent, and be an impersonator. He is looking more and more like him.
LOL at the last part. JJ was on Dan Patrick's show this morning. He said none of the other guys knew before the HOF guy walked out. I guess they weren't watching the broadcast where they did the same thing to Cowher.
That's selling him short, man.
He's no less a HOFer than anyone else on that team. Maybe Irving wouldn't be a HOFer if he didn't have Aikman throwing to him...
You're going to make me real mad over this. :lol
For reasons I can't recall I was thinking of this (specifically with respect to Bradshaw) recently, and I thought it was funny that no one ever said Jack Lambert was only thought of highly because he played on a Defense with Joe Green, L.C. Greenwood, Jack Ham, Mel Blount and Donnie Shell (nor does anyone say that about any of the other guys on that defense or about Franco Harris or Lynn Swann). Quarterbacks seem to be the only guys who get the rap of "he was only good because he was surrounded by great players."
Random question: I went to Wikipedia to look up "Steel Curtain," and the article says that the "Steel Curtain" is the Steelers' defensive line (Greene, Greenwood, Ernie Holmes and Dwight White). Having grown up as a football fan in the late 70s/early 80s, I ALWAYS thought that "Steel Curtain" referred to the defense as a whole and not just the defensive line. Is my memory just completely off on this?
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Pretty damn hard to ignore that he is the most intercepted QB in NFL history. And the MVP awards simply bolster the overrated argument.
How so?
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Pretty damn hard to ignore that he is the most intercepted QB in NFL history. And the MVP awards simply bolster the overrated argument.
How so?
The point was that the MVP awards demonstrate that he was overrated. It's entirely possible that the hard numbers don't bear me out in this regard, but I did notice that, while Favre won Offensive Player of the Year in 1995, he did not win it in 1996 or 1997 (or any other year). Also, if you're into advanced stats (and I'm not really), there's something called Approximate Value, which seems to be the football equivalent of WAR in baseball. Favre never had the league's highest AV. In Favre's three MVP seasons (95-97) he was beaten out by Bruce Smith, Barry Sanders and Terrell Davis. In other words, it seems that his perceived value was greater than his actual value, which is pretty much the definition of overrated.
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Luke Kuechly just retired.
I am sad.
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He was an excellent player.
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2-2 on my Saturday picks. I drank the purple Kool Aid, and I'm still trying to get over Saturday night.
Minn-SF: The overturned (correctly) fumble call was a huge swing. As was the muffed punt. A healthy 49er team now, and one that can put a ton of pressure with just a four man rush. And Cousins
Hou-KC: how to summarize this one in under a page? Briefly, the correct call by O’Brien on the FG, but he burns a time out, and then they spent two hours calling out signals on the fake punt. So, now I question why the kicked the FG and then tried that one. Can’t comment much on the second half, as we kinda took a break when it became 35-24
Sea-GB: I knew this would be a one score game. We watched most of the first half, but due to the new late start and football burn out, we dozed off for most of the third and almost all of the fourth quarters.
Rodgers was 7 for 8 and over 100 yards and a TD on 3rd-and-5s or longer? That’s a ‘Wow!’
Tenn-Balt: (I had to go downstairs a couple of times, put my headphones on and listen to Rush in order to escape and somewhat keep my sanity....)
Moving on, a healthy Andrews is in place and catches the tipped INT. I’ll never be convinced the TD to make it 7-0 was in bounds. But, a hell of a ‘catch’. Later on, twice the Ravens have 4th and 1. They’re 8 for 8 on the season. Motion, deception, two or three TE blockers/receivers, Patrick Ricard blowing away a defender, but they did none of that on those (and 90% of others)…and they fail, one time with Jackson lined up under center. WTW?!?!?! The injuries to Ingram and Andrews and Boyle and the dropped passes…..
The Ravens had many drives during the season under three minutes. Hell, they had two long drives against Cleveland in the final two minutes of the first half a few weeks ago. But, also, since their starting center Skura was hurt weeks ago, they have ‘struggled’. They were down 6-0 to the Browns before that weird ending to the first half. Last weekend, they certainly weren’t playing the Browns.
If one key play goes against them against the Steelers in the first match up, the 49ers convert their 4th down or later stop the Ravens on 4th down, and the Bills convert on 4th down, they could have been 11-5. But they made those plays during the year. I thought they’d get at least one TO Saturday, and scratch and claw to a close victory. And then move on and have a great chance against the Chiefs and then the NFC winner. Or they’d lose this weekend to the Chiefs, but that would have been explainable. Last weekend never will be.
MusicMaker: Titans-Ravens was a damn good, ‘black and blue’ divisional rivalry for many years, like the old Lions-Bears games of the 60s and early 70s. I really enjoyed the Ravens two playoff wins in Nashville, and I'm sure you've enjoyed the two playoff games up here. Also, a shame Warren Moon and all never advanced further. Always thought the world of him, even though I initially hated him when Washington beat the Wolverines in the Rose Bowl.
Tannehill might prove to be the Earl Morrall of this new decade. And, Henry isn’t a bad quarterback😉
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Not you, Dragon Attack, even though this post is following yours, but I think we forget sometimes the importance of the "Any Given Sunday" mentality. When Brady was out for four games, the Pats did really well in his absence, but it was with pipe cleaners and duct tape. That was not sustainable in the long term.
This honestly doesn't have anything to do with the outcome (except make me more in awe of Belichick), but I don't at all fault Pete Carroll for the Marshawn Lynch call in the Super Bowl. EVERYONE IN THE STADIUM knew it was Marshawn Lynch, and he knew he didn't have a "next week" if the players on the field got the better of him. I don't know that I believe you go down with your most predictable self. Your job is to WIN, period. (And of course, ironic, that he put the ball in the hands of Russell then and failed, and now the criticism is "he didn't put the ball in Russell's hands"). There were a lot of criticisms of Baltimore getting away from their structured running attack - I agree with this, but the theory is Lamar gets to do all his improv and creating because his offense is so planned and precise - but again, everyone in the house knows what's what at that point, and do you give a Mike Vrabel D, that's been playing really well, the keys to the car and say "beat me"? Maybe you do, but I don't think you can fault Harbaugh for saying, nah, we're better than that.
For every "Pete Carroll", there's a Ron Rivera who did everything the same and lost. Or Dan Quinn (Falcons). I could keep going here. The Titans played 60 minutes of better football, period. I think the same about the Pack.
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I don't at all fault Pete Carroll for the Marshawn Lynch call in the Super Bowl.
Of course you don't. Because it was unequivocally the right call. Sometimes the right call just doesn't work out.
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Malcolm Butler's INT on the Wilson pass: I saw that mini documentary, and of Butler recognizing the play from video sessions. That was simply one hell of a read, and how he held onto the ball after he got drilled still amazes me.
Balt-Tenn: the Ravens went way too far out of their comfort zone. With empty backfields, no motion, etc etc...there goes the deception. Who is going to run or throw the ball? #8, obviously. When opponents throughout the season admitted 'I didn't know where the ball was', and then you remove that threat, well, the results spoke for themselves. I mentioned last week that I didn't like the matchup, and would have preferred Houston. Tennessee is one of those 'late bloomers' that we often see in the NHL. A team that doesn't have the 'great' record, but is healthy, things are clicking, is on a roll, so don't be surpised if they beat your axe.
'Any Given Sunday'....Giants 37-20 over the 15-1 Packers after the 2011 season; the 8-7 Vikings 36-24 win at the 13-2 49ers after the '87 'replacement' season (49ers final three games they outscored their opponents 124-7); the Patriots 31-14 AFC title win at Miami after the '85 season (stunning because of the six Dolphin TOs); the NFL champion Colts loss to the Jets in SB III; any and all Marty Schottenheimer coached team losses (either upset or heart break... like that 14-2 team that gets the clinching INT only to fumble to the Patriots); and the Bears rolling over DC 73-0 in the '40 NFL title game ;)
This was the most fun and entertaining NFL season of my life. I suffered through the Lions until 2000 when I moved here (the Colts being my second favorite team until Irsay destroyed and then moved them), but I at least had Barry Sanders to watch for many glorious years (so many of the most memorable three yard runs you'd ever want to see). One playoff win in my life, with very few postseason games. One dance was the '95 playoff against the Eagles. Detroit finishes 10-6 on a seven game roll, Mitchell's the QB, Sanders totals 1900 yards rushing/receiving, Perriman and Moore each have 100 receptions.....and it's 38-7 Eagles at the half (including a Hail Mary), 51-7 at one point, before finishing 58-37. That's what this Saturday night felt like to me too often.
I truly love defensive battles, and the Ravens have a good to great tradition in that area. Their GM DeCosta made some great changes after the Cleveland debacle, when we all thought they'd be lucky to win eight games with that defense, otherwise there would have been no thrilling wins over SF and Buffalo (the 'one big play' in each game). Sadly, too many recent years of Flacco, with Morninweg as OC, made Jason Tucker the most exciting offensive player. This year was special. As an armchair QB, I might have questioned a play call or three of each game, and might have had a handful of big critiques during the season (totals all surpassed in each quarter Saturday).
I'll predict now a SF-KC title game. My best friend in the UP knows the networks are not pulling for his Pack to face the Titans.
time to try and chill........
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I'll predict now a SF-KC title game. My best friend in the UP knows the networks are not pulling for his Pack to face the Titans.
I will obviously be rooting for my team. That's a no-brainer. But I'm happy with the 4 teams we have left and will have a rooting interest no matter what. Whatever happens this week, I'll be rooting for the NFC no matter what. That's easy, since the Packers have always been my #2 team. I almost cut them loose, as the recent rudeness and obnoxiousness from some of their fans had become truly intolerable. But, honestly, that is true of every fanbase around sports, sadly. So there's no point in holding that against the Packers. I hate to say it, but at the 49ers/Packers game in November, there were FAR too many 49ers fans that were WAY out of line to the Packers fans in attendance. And most of the Packers fans I ran across in the parking lot and in our section were pretty respectful of the fact that they were in another team's house. I can barely fathom why a human being would think it is acceptable to attack somebody simply because they like a different sports team and are wearing that team's colors.
But in any case, if the Packers somehow win, I have no problem rooting for them in the SB. And from the AFC, I would have no problem seeing the Titans win. And if the Chiefs make it to the SB, at least I'll have a villain to root against no matter who they are playing from the NFC.
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I'm rooting for the 49ers now that the Seahawks are out of it.
Btw, has anyone noticed that Jimmy G kind of has the Superman factor? :lol
I hope the Packers aren't his green Kryptonite..
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I still maintain that the world wouldn't have lost their mind over Wilson throwing it at the 1 if Collinsworth hadn't gone on and on about how he couldn't believe the call. Throwing it on 2nd down there was the right move. Wilson just should have thrown it low and inside so his receiver either catches it or it gets broken up, and Butler made an all-time great play.
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I still maintain that the world wouldn't have lost their mind over Wilson throwing it at the 1 if Collinsworth hadn't gone on and on about how he couldn't believe the call. Throwing it on 2nd down there was the right move. Wilson just should have thrown it low and inside so his receiver either catches it or it gets broken up, and Butler made an all-time great play.
I've been preaching it for years, buddy. Al Michaels even tried to explain it to him before giving getting shouted down. Al got it and Collinsworth didn't, and for that one of the NFL's great coaches never lives it down.
And interestingly, there actually was a pretty big Pete Carrol blunder at the end of that game. NE was in a bad way when Butler ran it out to the six inch line. They had to kill clock, they couldn't kneel down, and they had no room to maneuver. Belichick coaches his players false starts don't hurt them in that situation (half of nothing is still nothing) and off sides penalties are devastating. The Seahawks never got that message, apparently. That penalty is what ended the game, not the interception, and it never should have been allowed to happen.
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Regarding the call and Collinsworth, I don't know that I would put it on him that others lost their minds. There are plenty who just don't understand why that's the right play to call. Collinsworth not getting it is largely irrelevant to others not getting it.
But as far as the offside penalty, I don't pin the loss on that at all. There was only :20 on the clock. After trying to draw them off, if it failed, it's still first down. Brady can just line up in a short shotgun with one receiver split out wide. Just get the snap and loft a pass as high as he can in the direction of the receiver out of bounds. Repeat twice more. If there is still time on the clock on 4th down, take the safety, and that about does it.
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I still maintain that the world wouldn't have lost their mind over Wilson throwing it at the 1 if Collinsworth hadn't gone on and on about how he couldn't believe the call. Throwing it on 2nd down there was the right move. Wilson just should have thrown it low and inside so his receiver either catches it or it gets broken up, and Butler made an all-time great play.
I've been preaching it for years, buddy. Al Michaels even tried to explain it to him before giving getting shouted down. Al got it and Collinsworth didn't, and for that one of the NFL's great coaches never lives it down.
And interestingly, there actually was a pretty big Pete Carrol blunder at the end of that game. NE was in a bad way when Butler ran it out to the six inch line. They had to kill clock, they couldn't kneel down, and they had no room to maneuver. Belichick coaches his players false starts don't hurt them in that situation (half of nothing is still nothing) and off sides penalties are devastating. The Seahawks never got that message, apparently. That penalty is what ended the game, not the interception, and it never should have been allowed to happen.
How is Michael Bennett taking an encroachment penalty "a pretty big Pete Carrol[l] blunder"?? It's only a blunder by Carroll if you assume that an established veteran needed to be, but was not, coached or reminded (specifically by Carroll) not to jump offside in a situation where that was sufficiently obvious to the other 10 Seattle players on the field. Bennett might not be a Rhodes Scholar, but I think it's absurd to blame that penalty on Carroll.
Also, I don't really think the Pats were "in a bad way" with the ball at their own one yard line. Had Bennett not acted like a complete idiot, they had many options to run out the remaining 20 seconds (including what Bosk explained). Regardless, I agree that the play call on the Butler interception was not a blunder by Carroll.
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Bad things can happen in those situations. You do not want to have to run 3 plays from your own goal line. Can't kneel. Can't run around like a clown. Can't take a safety. They had to run plays. And my recollection is that the entire D was ramped up looking to make a play. All of them were itching to jump off sides. Bennett was just the one that did and got caught. Somebody needed to hammer home the point that giving them five yards was the worst thing they could do. I'm pretty sure they knew that a safety was there only real chance, but giving them the yardage to kneel down was a game-ender.
And to be clear, Pete Carrol won me over with that game. He's really the only coach I consider to be in the same league as Belichick, and that game is a big part of it. I just think he failed to keep his team from making a fatal blunder in that situation.
Regarding the call and Collinsworth, I don't know that I would put it on him that others lost their minds. There are plenty who just don't understand why that's the right play to call. Collinsworth not getting it is largely irrelevant to others not getting it.
He spent the final two minutes of game repeating over and over what an awful call it was. He really drilled into people's heads how stupid it was, and once people get that into their heads it's kind of hard to shake loose.
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Bart, with all due respect brother, I just don't think Collinsworth had anything to do with it. When I watched it in real time, my first thought was WTF are the Seahawks doing? Zolak's call in real time was literally, "that was the dumbest call" ever, or something like that. Maybe Collinsworth convinced some pink hats that it was a bad call, but when you're a yard from a SB winning touchdown, and you don't give it to Lynch, that's just nuts.
Granted, Butler made a ridiculous play on the ball. The play was there for the Hawks. But it was far riskier (obviously) than a Lynch run.
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I've been preaching it for years, buddy. Al Michaels even tried to explain it to him before giving getting shouted down. Al got it and Collinsworth didn't, and for that one of the NFL's great coaches never lives it down.
All true. We have always been in agreement on this one. :tup :tup
Regarding the call and Collinsworth, I don't know that I would put it on him that others lost their minds. There are plenty who just don't understand why that's the right play to call. Collinsworth not getting it is largely irrelevant to others not getting it.
Perhaps, but an announcer saying something so definitively can seep into the minds of viewers and influence their thoughts. For example, I doubt Randy Moss would have caught as much grief for the fake pantsing of Packers fans in the end zone if Joe Buck hadn't called it disgusting in real time on live TV.
Bart, with all due respect brother, I just don't think Collinsworth had anything to do with it. When I watched it in real time, my first thought was WTF are the Seahawks doing? Zolak's call in real time was literally, "that was the dumbest call" ever, or something like that. Maybe Collinsworth convinced some pink hats that it was a bad call, but when you're a yard from a SB winning touchdown, and you don't give it to Lynch, that's just nuts.
Granted, Butler made a ridiculous play on the ball. The play was there for the Hawks. But it was far riskier (obviously) than a Lynch run.
Lynch was not good in short yardage situations that year, but no one remembers that.
Since Seattle had 1 timeout left, throwing it on 2nd down was the smart move. If you run it on 2nd down and get stopped, you have to take your last timeout and then you have to pass on 3rd down. By throwing it on 2nd down, you keep your timeout and then you can run or throw on both 3rd and 4th downs (if both are needed). It's just bad luck (for them) that the pass got picked off on 2nd down.
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I think that's too much thinking. You have 3 shots, with a TO, to pound it in.
Hey, it'll be debated forever I guess. It really took a miraculous defensive play.
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I think that's too much thinking. You have 3 shots, with a TO, to pound it in.
Hey, it'll be debated forever I guess. It really took a miraculous defensive play.
I call it good situational coaching. Carroll did it right; he just got victimized by Butler's awesome play.
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I think that's too much thinking. You have 3 shots, with a TO, to pound it in.
Hey, it'll be debated forever I guess. It really took a miraculous defensive play.
But that's just it. SEA only had two shots to pound it in. Any third shot had to be a pass play, which had to happen on second or third down. You either run the ball twice and it's game over, or you run twice and pass once on second or third down. He threw when there should have been an element of surprise.
The amazing thing to me is that Pete had the wherewithal to get all of this while the clock was beating down on him like that. That was the biggest pressure cooker situation I've seen in an NFL game, and both coaches responded remarkably well. Most coaches would have fallen apart.
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Bottom line: that pass connects and Pete Carroll is the genius that out-genius'd the other genius, Belichick.
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Bottom line: that pass connects and Pete Carroll is the genius that out-genius'd the other genius, Belichick.
True, because everyone was expecting a run.
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Everyone except Browner and Butler.
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@Bart and Kev: Nah, there were plenty of silly people out there that thought it was a bad call in real time. Exhibit A:
Bart, with all due respect brother, I just don't think Collinsworth had anything to do with it. When I watched it in real time, my first thought was WTF are the Seahawks doing?
:lol
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just prepping myself for the game....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7naD89T1Sm0
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@Bart and Kev: Nah, there were plenty of silly people out there that thought it was a bad call in real time. Exhibit A:Bart, with all due respect brother, I just don't think Collinsworth had anything to do with it. When I watched it in real time, my first thought was WTF are the Seahawks doing?
:lol
Yeah, but Tim was wrong, as we saw last night. Without it being drilled into their heads a lot of people learn the rationale and understand it better. If you haven't seen it since it happened, you should watch the final 3 minutes of the game on YT and listen to how big a deal Collinsworth made of it.
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Pretty sure that was TAC. !
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I think that's too much thinking. You have 3 shots, with a TO, to pound it in.
Actually, it was the exactly correct amount of thinking, especially for an NFL head coach.
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Downtown Nashville is having a multiple screen showing of the game on broadway Sunday. Lots of drinking and a whole bunch of Uber and Lyft rides.
If Tennessee does win, which team is better at controlling the run game - Green Bay or SF?
KC better take advantage of the possessions they get if the run game is on for Tennessee.
Both games should be good ones.
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Downtown Nashville is having a multiple screen showing of the game on broadway Sunday. Lots of drinking and a whole bunch of Uber and Lyft rides.
We flew down from BWI to Nashville to visit a niece on the weekend when Buffalo played Tennessee (Bills won 14-7). Lots of their fans on the plane, they played their theme song, over 20K of their fans were in attendance. We were fortunate that it rained off and on that day (and approx six inches that night/following morning) to hold back the 'festivities' of fans of both teams. We were down there on St. Patty's weekend in 2018, and I can fathom what Broadway is going to be like Sunday.
Fortunately (?) it's the early game. But, sounds like a freakin' blast!
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Well, here we go! We finally find out selves on the cusp of the weekend and these two great games. My initial opinions haven't changed:
This week:
Packers at 49ers
Titans at Chiefs
On the NFC title game, it's interesting how comfortable everyone seems to feel with the 49ers. I mean, most people aren't overlooking the Packers. But, I think justifiably, most seem to feel that if the 49ers stay locked in and play how they should, this game isn't something to worry about. In any case, looking forward to the games this weekend.
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I honestly think both games could go either way, and think we will have an exciting Super Bowl no matter who makes it.
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I think the Titans/Chiefs game will end up being a blowout where the Titans have long, sustained drives, most of which end in field goals, and KC answers with quick scores, and the game ends in a lopsided fashion. Maybe 31-23.
For the other game, I think the Packers have more success than the prior meeting, but that despite the Packers never being out of it, it never feels like the 49ers are not in control once we get past the 4th quarter. 27-17.
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I think the Titans/Chiefs game will end up being a blowout where the Titans have long, sustained drives, most of which end in field goals, and KC answers with quick scores, and the game ends in a lopsided fashion. Maybe 31-23.
You gotta factor into that a pick-6, and ST plays that give them a couple of very short fields. My hunch is that if Tenn plays well enough to keep it that close they likely win it. If it's a KC blowout it's because Tenn fell apart. I'm likely going with Tenn as they're playing with a great deal of heart right now. They're over-achieving and KC is simply being KC.
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I think the Titans/Chiefs game will end up being a blowout where the Titans have long, sustained drives, most of which end in field goals, and KC answers with quick scores, and the game ends in a lopsided fashion. Maybe 31-23.
31-23 is a lopsided blowout?
I think you either get a low-scoring, close Tennessee win (e.g., 17-14) or a 40+ to <25 Chiefs win.
I think virtually anything is possible in the NFC game, but if SF plays like it did last week, they win.
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Odd stats of this year's playoffs (from what I heard): passing yards for Ryan Tannehill in the second half of both games: ZERO
Aaron Rodgers, 3rd down and +5: 7 of 8, 110+ yards, 1 TD.
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I had a feeling that the Titans would win in Baltimore last week. I was right.
I have a feeling that the Packers will somehow win in SF this week.
No way I get this kind of "feeling" prediction correct two weeks in a row, right? ;)
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Your crazy Tennessee stat of the day:
In the last 10 games, the Titans have scored 1 field goal (week 15)...
...and 43 touchdowns.
That's ridiculous. (And awesome!)
Also, while this is probably too late for most of you to enjoy, here is one of the very best TEN-KC matchup previews/analyses I've seen:
https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2020/1/17/21070197/what-the-titans-have-to-do-on-sunday-to-beat-the-chiefs-and-head-to-super-bowl-liv (https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2020/1/17/21070197/what-the-titans-have-to-do-on-sunday-to-beat-the-chiefs-and-head-to-super-bowl-liv)
It's from a Titans SB Nation site, so is coming from the Titans fans' perspective (a pretty fair and self-critical fan base overall, by the way, but still pulling for Tennessee obviously), but this particular writer (Mike Herndon) puts most pro analysts to shame with his knowledge, insight, and understanding of the nuts-and-bolts of the game (his "All-22" game reviews each week are unmatched). This one covers some of the same stories/matchups that everyone else in "big media" is talking about, but actually covers a lot of really important/insightful ones that they aren't. I think Herndon is highlighting the right keys for the game.
Should be a good one!
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Really hoping for Mahomes vs Rodgers, which is also probably the best matchup for ratings. GB really needs to use a short quick passing game to slow down that pass rush.
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I haven't followed the NFL much during the season so I have no clue what the strengths of each teams are but based on just the two weekends of playoff football my picks would be the Titans vs 49ers in the SB with probably the Titans taking it.
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Due to previous commitments, I'll be missing pretty much the whole Niner game, so I hope it's a complete blowout by the Niners so I don't have to stress.
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Why do players mouth off before games? Just saw on espn where Clark from KC, “no difficulty in tackling Henry.” That is similar to what Baltimore said last week.
The play action pass could be big for the Titans today.
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Bright sunshiny day here for the AFC title game: 36 degrees, but the winds are 20-30 MPH.
Oh, right, they're not playing in Baltimore. Frick! :'(
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Did Tyreek Hill just walk on to the field like a dog taking a piss? What the hell goes on in someone's head where they think "hey, I am older than 6, this will be cool!"
My daughter when she saw Derrick Henry "It looks like the back of his neck is pooping."
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My daughter when she saw Derrick Henry "It looks like the back of his neck is pooping."
I mean, she's not wrong... :lol
Well, 10 minutes in and the Titans have 106 yards, the Chiefs have 0. Nice! :lol
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I really do not like Kansas City.
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KC continuing to commit stupid penalties. Have to blame Reid unfortunately.
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What a TD run by Mahomes. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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What a TD run by Mahomes. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Yeah, that was amazing. I though the Titans gave their last possession away.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I feel my inner self pulling for the Titans. That said, I love Pat Mahomes, and I could watch him play all day.
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^
Yes to all of that.
Even though it's just halftime, and the Titans have the edge in plays 35-26, their defense looked gassed on that last drive.
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What a TD run by Mahomes. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Yeah, that was amazing. I though the Titans gave their last possession away.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I feel my inner self pulling for the Titans. That said, I love Pat Mahomes, and I could watch him play all day.
I'm not saying that any QB could have scored that - not even close; there's maybe five guys that could have - but the Titans certainly helped to give that TD away. Mahomes didn't quit on the play - as QBs sometimes do - and the Titans didn't finish the play. They can't play cute with him, and should have hit him hard on the sideline when he was still short of the first down marker. That's not going to make Vrabel happy.
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(https://i.imgur.com/8PFjqmu.jpg)
:metal :metal
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I turned the game off. I can't take Nance any more than I already have.
I know the Titans have come from behind in their last three games against the Chiefs (including earlier this year) so I'll have to read about it in the papers tomorrow.
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Yes!!!! Love Mahomes, and really happy for Reid. As usual the experts were wrong, KC pushed TEN around and won the line of scrimmage.
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That Chiefs team was just relentless, it should be a great team to watch in the SB.
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Did the Packers turn in to a High School team or what? I mean, I get that the Niners defense is almost not fair, but wow!
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That Packers D is basically non-existent. Looks like a Chiefs v 49ers SB
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Does anybody know if Aikman/Buck travel to all of the games they call? I assumed they called some of the TNF games from a studio, but I've seen that same studio shot during this game, and I figure they'd have to be at this one. The reality is that they could probably do a better job in a studio anyway, but it doesn't seem right.
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I'm not even sure it's Joe Buck. Seems he disappeared 15 years ago, and this is some artist's rendering. Seems more like a hologram.
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Dang.
Turning point in the AFC game was Mahomes TD run in the first half. After that, it was all KC and no TENN. As a TENN fan, it was really disappointing in the end. Tannehill (who had an INCREDIBLE regular season) seemed to do some really stupid things this game- taking sacks (or throwing for losses) instead of throwing it out-of-bounds, taking the final sack at the end (instead of heaving downhill which is your ONLY chance of making a comeback), etc. After such an awesome season, I'm sorry he kinda got lost today. The KC D played well, to be sure, but they were nowhere near as good as Pats or Ravens defenses. Tannehill mostly just needed to make average plays and they would've had a much better second half, and it would've been a very different kind of game. Tennessee was pretty much at do-or-die with about 10 minutes left in the 4th.
I've always liked Andy Reid- glad he'll get a Super Bowl crack. BUT- I despise Tyreek Hill (probably more than any other NFL player, except Ray Lewis way back when), so that was very difficult to have to watch.
Oh well. Like I said earlier, this playoff run post- victory-over-NE was just gravy. No one (even Titans fans) expected the team to be here even 3/4 of the way through the season. Great run, and it was nice to actually have Tennessee in the national spotlight for a few minutes.
(Side note: I'm not sure if fans of high-spotlight teams in sports realize how much different the fan experience is when your team is NEVER in said spotlight. I know what it's like to be a fan of a team everyone is always talking about- I'm a lifelong Laker and Dodger fan- and it's night-and-day different. The successes of small-market teams, when they do finally occur/arrive, are much more enjoyable (sweeter) for those fan bases. So I really do appreciate this experience as a Titans/Oilers fan.)
Hmm. Not sure who I'm rooting for now. GB would be weird, because LaFleur was the Titans' OC last year in Tennessee and, frankly, was mediocre at best (and hot garbage compared to this year's OC). Rooting for the 49ers is really hard as a southern Californian. So KC would probably be my preferred victor now, except Hill (and a couple other guys, but him especially) make that outcome virtually impossible to root for. So I guess I really don't care from here on out. Maybe GB by a hair, but GB (like NE, Pittsburgh, etc.) has had more than their fair share of SB glory and I'm ready for different franchises and opportunities.
Was so close to a magical Super Bowl run this year. Feel like that would've made the most people the happiest (not just TENN fans). Oh well. If only...
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MusicMaker, what are the Titan's plans for QB next year? What are you hearing?
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MusicMaker, what are the Titan's plans for QB next year? What are you hearing?
Their QB wasn't the issue today.
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MusicMaker, what are the Titan's plans for QB next year? What are you hearing?
Their QB wasn't the issue today.
I didn't say it was, and I wasn't talking about today.
Dick.
:lol
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:lol
Maybe you should specify that.
Dick. :lol
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MusicMaker, what are the Titan's plans for QB next year? What are you hearing?
Maybe you should specify that.
MusicMaker, what are the Titan's plans for QB next year? What are you hearing?
:lol
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Wow. Fucking amaz. Let's speculate 3 hours after a game about a QB after the game. Tim gets this jab. (Thanks Shank)
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Wow. Fucking amaz. Let's speculate 3 hours after a game about a QB after the game. Tim gets this jab. (Thanks Shank)
I was speculating before the game! :lol
Tannehill is no Mahomes, but it felt like the Titans got nothing out of their QB.
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Joe is right....Tannehill was not the issue today. KC was just better team, and Mahomes is the man.
Tonight's game wasn't even a fair fight. The Packers looked totally overmatched, and Aaron Rodgers looked like Jay Cutler all night with that stoic look like he couldn't care less if they won or not.
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Yup. 2 teams expressed their will.
Going to be one hell of a SB.
Everyone should know I'm a SF fan right now.
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Tannehill was not the issue today.
He didn't help, and he didn't give his team a chance. Yes, his team was outmatched. So was Seattle last week, but that didn't stop Wilson leading his team.
Going to be one hell of a SB.
Everyone should know I'm a SF fan right now.
I'm with you, Brother!
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I'm just rooting for a good game. As a Broncos fan, I cannot in good conscience root for the Chiefs, but as a decent human being, I cannot in good conscience root for a team that has Richard Sherman, so I am just hoping for a good game. The 49ers should win as they have the much better D and a dominant running game, but the betting public loves flashy offenses, so I am guessing the Chiefs will be a slight favorite.
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Rodgers’ numbers are actually extremely impressive given the quality of D he was going against.
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But Tyreek Hill Kev. Richard Sherman is a saint compared to him.
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Rodgers’ numbers are actually extremely impressive given the quality of D he was going against.
Empty numbers. Most of that was gotten after they were down by 27 and the 49ers defense had loosened up a bit. It's not his fault that the Packers D got shredded by a RB that no one except FF players knew before today, but he still wasn't nearly good enough in the first three quarters tonight.
But Tyreek Hill Kev. Richard Sherman is a saint compared to him.
That's true, but Sherman has a lot of equity built up as a true villain.
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I hated him but he manned up to Brady that showed at the worst mom, he showed call. That means a lot about a man.
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I hated him but he manned up to Brady that showed at the worst mom, he showed call. That means a lot about a man.
I can usually decipher your posts, but this one has me baffled. :lol :lol
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But Tyreek Hill Kev. Richard Sherman is a saint compared to him.
That's true, but Sherman has a lot of equity built up as a true villain.
How bad can a guy be that eats Chunky Soup?
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I hated him but he manned up to Brady that showed at the worst mom, he showed call. That means a lot about a man.
I can usually decipher your posts, but this one has me baffled. :lol :lol
Come on man
(https://i.postimg.cc/02BmMpt5/usp-nfl-super-bowl-xlix-new-england-patriots-vs-s1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YhQjTmKT)
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... as a decent human being, I cannot in good conscience root for a team that has Richard Sherman
This got a :biggrin: out of me.
Zero interest for me in this SB. We had hosted several recent SBs but last year only one of the people we invited over for the game took a minute to even respond. We have lost touch a bit with that group of people so I wasn't too surprised or bummed. Time to start discretely asking around to see what other people are doing for the game. I am a bit over hosting parties right now.
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How bad was Green Bay’s run defense? SF attempted 8 passes the entire game.
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Should be a good superbowl :yarr
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Yup. 2 teams expressed their will.
Going to be one hell of a SB.
Everyone should know I'm a SF fan right now.
In the last two hours or so, I went out and got a Garoppolo jersey, I got a "49ers" tat, and put a deposit on season tix for next year. That's how hard I'm rooting for the 9'ers over Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes.
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Congrats to the Niners. You were indeed the best team in the NFC this year.
That being said...
GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!! :angel: ;D
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Damn man...Mostert was a fucking animal today.
Happy to see my boys back in the big game....now lets see if we can finish the job. This team certainly has the necessary tools for it. Chefs look ridiculously good too, it's gonna be a hell of a game.
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Chefs look ridiculously good too, it's gonna be a hell of a game.
Let's hope they really COOK up a good game plan!
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:biggrin:
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Chefs look ridiculously good too, it's gonna be a hell of a game.
Let's hope they really COOK up a good game plan!
Great googly moogly.
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Chefs look ridiculously good too, it's gonna be a hell of a game.
Let's hope they really COOK up a good game plan!
Great googly moogly.
Someone got it ;)
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That commercial is actually older than I think it is sometimes. It was my dad's favorite version of that series of Snickers commercials, and he passed away 12 years ago.
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But Tyreek Hill Kev. Richard Sherman is a saint compared to him.
I'm life long Chiefs fan and I'm super happy they finally made the Super Bowl. That being said, I HATE Hill. He is a piece of garbage and I love when he get's lit up.
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I saw some dude on Twitter said that "Jimmy Garrapolo is the first QB to have three weeks rest for the SB." :lol
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I'd like to know the last time the NFL playoffs saw a team win each of the first three playoff rounds with their starting QB (basically) playing the whole game and throwing for less than 100 yards. Tannehill did it against NE and Baltimore, and then Garappolo did it yesterday.
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Trent Dilfer was close in the 2000 playoffs.
(https://i.postimg.cc/bv34kqBh/Screenshot-20200120-181049-Chrome.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ty5kXvx7)
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I think I could have been the QB on that Ravens team and they still would have won the Super Bowl. Maybe I was too young to fully appreciate the '85 Bears, but I've never seen a defense dominate like that Ravens D did, especially in the playoffs. Their opponents even getting a 1st down felt like a major win.
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I think I could have been the QB on that Ravens team and they still would have won the Super Bowl. Maybe I was too young to fully appreciate the '85 Bears, but I've never seen a defense dominate like that Ravens D did, especially in the playoffs. Their opponents even getting a 1st down felt like a major win.
I can only name 2 on that 2000 defensive unit ( Woodson and Lewis ) from memory. Seemed like an all star cast from 2006-2012 though.
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Did anyone else get flash-backs of the late 90's Bronco's offense while watching the 49'ers yesterday?
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As a Seahawks, Rams and Raiders fan, I am most unhappy with this. This is the first SB in years where I don't care who wins.
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Suggs is playing for the Chiefs so I'll guess I'm in for them.
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I think I could have been the QB on that Ravens team and they still would have won the Super Bowl. Maybe I was too young to fully appreciate the '85 Bears, but I've never seen a defense dominate like that Ravens D did, especially in the playoffs. Their opponents even getting a 1st down felt like a major win.
Who knows who was better, but they were very much alike. They both played a hard, vicious defense. Both had games where they broke, but for the most part, they were tough, hard-nosed football teams (on both sides of the ball). The team nod goes to the Bears, though. For that moment in the sun (that is, when his body didn't let him down/he didn't abuse his body to the point of neglect) Jim McMahon was an amazing QB to watch. I'm a big fan of his ON the field (not so much the nonsense off the field).
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Kyle Shanahan is just a wizard. There's no other explanation. When you come in with a game plan knowing it will work and the other team can't stop it, and you just hammer and hammer it and ram it down their throats to the point of embarrassment...most coaches just won't do that. At some point, there's a little voice saying "maybe we should change it up just because...we can't possibly just keep doing the same thing all game." Some little bit of self doubt that makes you go away from the game plan. Not this guy. He was all in on "we'll keep on running it until they show us that they can stop the run."
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Kyle Shanahan is just a wizard. There's no other explanation. When you come in with a game plan knowing it will work and the other team can't stop it, and you just hammer and hammer it and ram it down their throats to the point of embarrassment...most coaches just won't do that. At some point, there's a little voice saying "maybe we should change it up just because...we can't possibly just keep doing the same thing all game." Some little bit of self doubt that makes you go away from the game plan. Not this guy. He was all in on "we'll keep on running it until they show us that they can stop the run."
Sean McVay. It WILL catch up to him/them at some point. The good thing is, Kyle has the pedigree and experience that I have ZERO doubt he already has the back-up, alternate plan already in the queue in the off-chance it happens sooner rather than later. McVay is chasing it going on three seasons later and still doesn't have the answer.
I also don't think the Chiefs are the team to do it.
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The good thing is, Kyle has the pedigree and experience that I have ZERO doubt he already has the back-up, alternate plan already in the queue in the off-chance it happens sooner rather than later.
Oh, absolutely. We've already seen that plenty this season. I guarantee that running the ball like they did was not the entire game plan. But he never saw any need to go to the next step because that aspect was working so profoundly well. Why tip your hand as to what else you are holding if the opponent has no answer at all for what is already on that table?
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I saw an interesting post from a former player (maybe Joe Thomas) on Twitter talking about how Kyle Shanahan is a rare one column playcaller. He said most offensive coordinators have a column of passing plays and a column of running plays, and they'll switch back and forth between the two based on what they've just been doing and the down/distance and basically pick a play. For Kyle Shanahan though the playcalling is one column of runs and passes that all fit together as part of a larger puzzle. Can't say I've watched anywhere near enough 49ers games to know how accurate that is, but seemed like an interesting viewpoint from someone who knows way more about football than I do.
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That rings true from my observations. And one thing he does along those lines, for example, is that you will see the same formation with the same motions 3 or 4 times per game. But the plays that emerge from that identical look are 3 or 4 completely different plays. Maybe 2 different running plays, a straight passing play, and a play action pass, or something like that. And commentators have talked about that and about how it really throws the defense off balance because they often can't tell what is coming. They see a formation and a motion that seems to signal one thing, but then the play unfolds and they get something completely different. And then when they see it later in the game, they get something completely different from that.
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Did anyone else get flash-backs of the late 90's Bronco's offense while watching the 49'ers yesterday?
Absolutely. It is basically the same offense: we are going to run it down your throats till you can't stop us, and when we do throw, it is either to our stud TE or chunk plays to our play-makers at WR. And when they run it, it is make one cut and hit the hole and you're off. Kyle learned well from his dad.
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All I can hope for is that Andy Reid watches enough tape in the next 10 days to come up with a decent game plan for stopping the run. Yeah, I should be supporting the NFC in this match up but not this time. Gotta go for KC. A much bigger story going on there with a great coach getting back to the SB for a 2nd shot at it. The 9ers have been doing well for me in my pick' em league but this is where we part ways.
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All I can hope for is that Andy Reid watches enough tape in the next 10 days to come up with a decent game plan for stopping the run. Yeah, I should be supporting the NFC in this match up but not this time. Gotta go for KC. A much bigger story going on there with a great coach getting back to the SB for a 2nd shot at it. The 9ers have been doing well for me in my pick' em league but this this where we part ways.
Andy Reid is historically great coming off of a bye, so that and Patrick Mahomes are major checkmarks in KC's favor. SF obviously has the better D and that relentless running attack. I really have no idea what to expect with this game. No result will surprise me. I could see either team winning in a blowout or a close game.
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The only thing that would surprise me is for the 49ers to get blown out. If they lose, I think it will be relatively close. The only three times they lost this season, the game was decided on the final possession. I think Shanahan is too good a coach and too good at adjusting for the game to get completely out of hand against them. But regardless, to me, this is easily the most intriguing matchup we could have gotten.
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All I can hope for is that Andy Reid watches enough tape in the next 10 days to come up with a decent game plan for stopping the run. Yeah, I should be supporting the NFC in this match up but not this time. Gotta go for KC. A much bigger story going on there with a great coach getting back to the SB for a 2nd shot at it. The 9ers have been doing well for me in my pick' em league but this this where we part ways.
That's an overlooked fact, that this is Kyle Shanahan's second SB. He was OC when Tom and Crew exerted their will on the Falcons in 2016. Let's hope he can redeem.
:)
(Not a Reid fan.)
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All I can hope for is that Andy Reid watches enough tape in the next 10 days to come up with a decent game plan for stopping the run. Yeah, I should be supporting the NFC in this match up but not this time. Gotta go for KC. A much bigger story going on there with a great coach getting back to the SB for a 2nd shot at it. The 9ers have been doing well for me in my pick' em league but this this where we part ways.
That's an overlooked fact, that this is Kyle Shanahan's second SB. He was OC when Tom and Crew exerted their will on the Falcons in 2016. Let's hope he can redeem.
:)
(Not a Reid fan.)
Yup. The only thing I have issue with is that Shanahan needs to be "redeemed" for anything. You can't really put the Patriot offense shredding the Atlanta defense on the OC.
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I'm with you; I was just poking a little fun at my friend Kev. Have I said yet I'm not a Reid fan? :) :)
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Fair or not, I don't see how anyone can deny Reid's greatness as a head coach. Only five coaches in the NFL history have won more playoff games than him. Sure, he has his faults (what coach doesn't?), but you cannot argue with 20 years of greatness as a head coach. If the Chiefs win the Super Bowl, he becomes a no-brainer for the Hall of Fame.
The way I could see SF losing by a lot is a close game turning into a game where KC offense gets on an unstoppable roll in the second half and then Garoppolo turns it over a few times when trying to keep up, and Jimmy G has shown that he is prone to turnovers at times.
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I think the O-Lines and D-Lines of KC manned up much better than expected against TEN. Now they won't do as well against SF but if they don't allow those ridiculous 30-yard runs that GB was giving up left and right, that will be success. Mahomes will make plenty of plays if he's given any time to throw. On the flip side, very interested to see how SF's defense approaches this game, like who Sherman will cover. I'd put Sherman on Watkins (or whoever receiver #2 is) and have 2 other guys double Hill. Then you have to deal with Kelce and Williams. Very tough, I think KC will score plenty so will we get to see Garroppolo air it out? He certainly did vs the Saints. I'm hyped, should be great game.
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Fair or not, I don't see how anyone can deny Reid's greatness as a head coach. Only five coaches in the NFL history have won more playoff games than him. Sure, he has his faults (what coach doesn't?), but you cannot argue with 20 years of greatness as a head coach. If the Chiefs win the Super Bowl, he becomes a no-brainer for the Hall of Fame.
The way I could see SF losing by a lot is a close game turning into a game where KC offense gets on an unstoppable roll in the second half and then Garoppolo turns it over a few times when trying to keep up, and Jimmy G has shown that he is prone to turnovers at times.
Factually, you're right. Emotionally, I'm sticking to the "you have to win the big one to be considered a great one". :) :) :)
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...and Jimmy G has shown that he is prone to turnovers at times.
Eh, not really. 13 interceptions total over 16 regular season games (or 14 out of 18, taking the playoffs into account). That's .81 interceptions per game (or .78, with playoffs), which isn't bad by any stretch. Brady is .63 career, and he's the GOAT.1. Granted, Mahomes has better numbers. I'm just saying that I wouldn't call Garoppolo "turnover prone."
No argument at all on your other points though (including your point about Reid).
1. And most years, he was up around 11-14 per season, which is where Garoppolo is now as well. He just had a few stellar years sprinkled in that bring the percentage down.
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Fair or not, I don't see how anyone can deny Reid's greatness as a head coach. Only five coaches in the NFL history have won more playoff games than him. Sure, he has his faults (what coach doesn't?), but you cannot argue with 20 years of greatness as a head coach. If the Chiefs win the Super Bowl, he becomes a no-brainer for the Hall of Fame.
The way I could see SF losing by a lot is a close game turning into a game where KC offense gets on an unstoppable roll in the second half and then Garoppolo turns it over a few times when trying to keep up, and Jimmy G has shown that he is prone to turnovers at times.
Factually, you're right. Emotionally, I'm sticking to the "you have to win the big one to be considered a great one". :) :) :)
Will you call Reid a great one if the Chiefs win in 12 days? :biggrin:
...and Jimmy G has shown that he is prone to turnovers at times.
Eh, not really. 13 interceptions total over 16 regular season games (or 14 out of 18, taking the playoffs into account). That's .81 interceptions per game (or .78, with playoffs), which isn't bad by any stretch. Brady is .63 career, and he's the GOAT.1. Granted, Mahomes has better numbers. I'm just saying that I wouldn't call Garoppolo "turnover prone."
No argument at all on your other points though (including your point about Reid).
1. And most years, he was up around 11-14 per season, which is where Garoppolo is now as well. He just had a few stellar years sprinkled in that bring the percentage down.
Well, 13 INT's was 8th most, and he was only 19th in pass attempts, so his INT percentage was up there (cannot find that exact stat at the moment), and he did tied for 8th in fumbles as well. And remember that I did say he is prone to turnovers at times, not that he is a turnover machine (see: Jameis Winston). Garoppolo is a good QB and made a lot of big throws for them this year. Should be a good game. :hat
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If I have to. :)
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@Kev: Fair enough. I don't really look at QB fumbles, because those are quite often things that aren't necessarily the QB's fault. If he gets strip sacked or hit from the blind side, that's something that can (and does) happen to any QB, or if the center gives a bad snap, that's on the center. That said, since I had Brady's stats open in my browser, I took a look at his career fumbles, and they are staggeringly low. I guess it really is easier to hold onto those underinflated footballs. :biggrin:
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(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQ1DkOKdVqRge3q1jQHOdchh1oN82E9i5T3OxspfdJdiaIZroWm)
INB4 the New Englanders storm the castle. :P
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:lol
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Shall I pull us the stats the last 4 years for you guys to have a large, hearty chuckle? :lol
BTW, So glad that report came out from the league on the air pressure liked they promised.
Not you made me spill my beer dammit.
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Shall I pull us
Only if you buy us dinner first. :heybaby:
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Wouldn't that work the other way? You need to buy me dinner? :lol
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You guys are buying me dinner? I'm in. Go Jimmy! :)
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Fun fact: in the last 19 Super Bowls, the team with the better QB (at that point in time) is 7-12. In other words, recent history is not on the side of Mahomes.
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^That is a "fun" fact. But, honestly, I hate stats like that that don't really correlate to anything. None of those teams are these two teams, so that doesn't mean anything.
This Super Bowl is SO interesting to me, because it's so hard to predict how it could go. As I mentioned above, I would be surprised if the 49ers lost big. But other than that, there isn't much that would surprise me. If I had to say how I think the game will go, I guess I think it is most likely to look something like this: As has happened in the two prior AFC rounds, the Chiefs get off to a slow start and fall behind early. But I don't think they fall far behind. Maybe 10 points or so. 13 tops. I think maybe the '9ers start their game having moderate, but not tremendous, success with short, quick passes, with a few runs and a few longer pass attempts sprinkled in. I think that's maybe the first 1/3 of the game. For the second 1/3, I think the teams trade blows, and KC closes the gap. But unlike the prior two AFC games, KC doesn't have quite the success they did. They do mount a pretty good comeback, and maybe take a small lead for a bit, but enter the 4th quarter down by 3 points or so. Part of the '9ers strategy during this middle part of the game involves more of the run attack and burning clock. I think both teams have "moderate" success at their game plans during this phase. I think toward the end of the game, Shanahan unleashes the 49er passing attack, which has been set up by the offense thus far, and SF gets a couple of quick scores due to catching the tired KC defense off guard. KC scores as well, but makes some mistakes and ultimately loses by 7-10 points.
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On paper, this should be one of the best Super Bowls ever.
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Fun fact: in the last 19 Super Bowls, the team with the better QB (at that point in time) is 7-12. In other words, recent history is not on the side of Mahomes.
Wait a minute..."better" according to whom or what metric?
Who was the "better" QB...
As between Brady and Jared Goff in 2019?
As between Peyton Manning and Cam Newton in 2016?
As between Peyton Manning and Russell Wilson in 2014?
As between Kapernick and Flacco in 2013?
As between Rodgers and Roethlisberger in 2011?
As between Brees and Peyton Manning in 2010?
As between Trent Dilfer and Kerry Collins in 2001?
^That is a "fun" fact. But, honestly, I hate stats like that that don't really correlate to anything. None of those teams are these two teams, so that doesn't mean anything.
Yeah...it's sort of how, in 1998, "everyone" said the Broncos couldn't possibly beat the Packers because the NFC had defeated the AFC in 13 straight games and 15 of 16.
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I guess maybe what I should have said is that, while it is a fun fact, it isn't necessarily predictive of anything.
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I think that fun fact is more an artifact of a small sample size than anything else.
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I bolded the winning QB of the Super Bowl:
In 2000, Kerry Collins was better than Trent Dilfer
In 2001, Kurt Warner was better than Tom Brady
In 2002, Rich Gannon was better than Brad Johnson
In 2003, Tom Brady was better than Jake Delhomme
In 2004, Donovan McNabb was better than Tom Brady
In 2005, Matt Hasselbeck was better than Ben Roethlisberger
In 2006, Peyton Manning was better than Rex Grossman
In 2007, Tom Brady was better than Eli Manning
In 2008, Kurt Warner was better than Ben Roethlisberger
In 2009, Peyton Manning was better than Drew Brees
In 2010, Aaron Rodgers was better than Ben Roethlisberger
In 2011, Tom Brady was better than Eli Manning
In 2012, Colin Kaepernick was better than Joe Flacco
In 2013, Peyton Manning was better than Russell Wilson
In 2014, Tom Brady was better than Russell Wilson
In 2015, Cam Newton was better than Peyton Manning
In 2016, Matt Ryan was better than Tom Brady
In 2017, Tom Brady was better than Nick Foles
In 2018, Tom Brady was better than Jarred Goff
Looks I have it as 5-14 (not 7-12) for the better QB. Note that if one of the QB's was the MVP of the season, they were by default the better QB that season.
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Yeah...it's sort of how, in 1998, "everyone" said the Broncos couldn't possibly beat the Packers because the NFC had defeated the AFC in 13 straight games and 15 of 16.
Oy.....when the ONLY thing that made the games worth watching (for the most part) in the 4th quarter was whether you had a chance to, or won a square in the office pool. This century has been quite the turnaround 90% of the time.
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I bolded the winning QB of the Super Bowl:
In 2000, Kerry Collins was better than Trent Dilfer
In 2001, Kurt Warner was better than Tom Brady
In 2002, Rich Gannon was better than Brad Johnson
In 2003, Tom Brady was better than Jake Delhomme
In 2004, Donovan McNabb was better than Tom Brady
In 2005, Matt Hasselbeck was better than Ben Roethlisberger
In 2006, Peyton Manning was better than Rex Grossman
In 2007, Tom Brady was better than Eli Manning
In 2008, Kurt Warner was better than Ben Roethlisberger
In 2009, Peyton Manning was better than Drew Brees
In 2010, Aaron Rodgers was better than Ben Roethlisberger
In 2011, Tom Brady was better than Eli Manning
In 2012, Colin Kaepernick was better than Joe Flacco
In 2013, Peyton Manning was better than Russell Wilson
In 2014, Tom Brady was better than Russell Wilson
In 2015, Cam Newton was better than Peyton Manning
In 2016, Matt Ryan was better than Tom Brady
In 2017, Tom Brady was better than Nick Foles
In 2018, Tom Brady was better than Jarred Goff
Looks I have it as 5-14 (not 7-12) for the better QB. Note that if one of the QB's was the MVP of the season, they were by default the better QB that season.
I think the more "fun fact" might be that teams with a league or conference MVP have been utterly abysmal in the Super Bowl. The last nine league MVPs' teams that made the Super Bowl have lost:
52: Brady's Patriots lost
51: Ryan's Falcons lost
50: Newton's Panthers lost
48: Peyton Manning's Broncos lost
44: Peyton Manning's Colts lost
42: Brady's Patriots lost
40: Shaun Alexander's Seahawks lost
37: Gannon's Raiders lost
36. Marshall Faulk's Rams lost
League MVPs in the 1990s fared significantly better, with their teams going 5-1 in the Super Bowl:
1999: Kurt Warner won MVP, and the Rams won SB 34
1998: Terrell Davis won MVP, and the Broncos won SB 33
1996: Bret Fahvray won MVP, and the Packers won SB 31
1994: Steve Young won MVP, and the 49ers won SB 29
1993: Emmett Smith won MVP, and the Cowboys won SB 28
1991: Thurman Thomas won MVP, and the Bills lost SB 26
Prior to that (and excluding the four pre-merger Super Bowls), a team having the league MVP (or, for the period from 1970-79, one or both conference MVPs) made the Super Bowl 12 times (only once, in SB 7, did both conference MVPs' teams make it). Those teams went 4-8:
1989: Joe Montana won MVP, and the 49ers won SB 24
1988: Boomer Esiason won MVP (seriously?!), and the Bengals lost SB 23
1987: John Elway won MVP, and the Broncos lost SB 22
1984: Dan Marino won MVP, and the Dolphins lost SB 19
1982: Mark Moseley won MVP (seriously?!), and the Redskins won SB 17
1981: Ken Anderson won MVP, and the Bengals lost SB 16
1977: Craig Morton won AFC MVP, and the Broncos lost SB 12
1976: Ken Stabler won AFC MVP, and the Raiders won SB 11
1974: Chuck Foreman won NFC MVP, and the Vikings lost SB 9
1972: Earl Morrall won AFC MVP, and his Dolphins defeated NFC MVP Larry Brown's Redskins in SB 7
1971: Bob Griese won AFC MVP, and the Dolphins lost SB 6
Putting all that together, for the seasons leading up to Super Bowls 4-53, 27 teams featuring a league/conference MVP made the Super Bowl. Those teams went 9-18 (.333 winning percentage) in the Super Bowl! And, if you exclude the 1990s, league MVPs' teams have a .190 winning percentage in the Super Bowl!
Won't be adding to those stats one way or the other this year, but these numbers are pretty staggering!
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Did we decide how "better" was determined?
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Did we decide how "better" was determined?
Opinion
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I bolded the winning QB of the Super Bowl:
In 2000, Kerry Collins was better than Trent Dilfer
In 2001, Kurt Warner was better than Tom Brady
In 2002, Rich Gannon was better than Brad Johnson
In 2003, Tom Brady was better than Jake Delhomme
In 2004, Donovan McNabb was better than Tom Brady
In 2005, Matt Hasselbeck was better than Ben Roethlisberger
In 2006, Peyton Manning was better than Rex Grossman
In 2007, Tom Brady was better than Eli Manning
In 2008, Kurt Warner was better than Ben Roethlisberger
In 2009, Peyton Manning was better than Drew Brees
In 2010, Aaron Rodgers was better than Ben Roethlisberger
In 2011, Tom Brady was better than Eli Manning
In 2012, Colin Kaepernick was better than Joe Flacco
In 2013, Peyton Manning was better than Russell Wilson
In 2014, Tom Brady was better than Russell Wilson
In 2015, Cam Newton was better than Peyton Manning
In 2016, Matt Ryan was better than Tom Brady
In 2017, Tom Brady was better than Nick Foles
In 2018, Tom Brady was better than Jarred Goff
:loser:
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I think the more "fun fact" might be that teams with a league or conference MVP have been utterly abysmal in the Super Bowl. The last nine league MVPs' teams that made the Super Bowl have lost:
52: Brady's Patriots lost
51: Ryan's Falcons lost
50: Newton's Panthers lost
48: Peyton Manning's Broncos lost
44: Peyton Manning's Colts lost
42: Brady's Patriots lost
40: Shaun Alexander's Seahawks lost
37: Gannon's Raiders lost
36. Marshall Faulk's Rams lost
Warner was the MVP the season of SB36, not Faulk, but the point still remains. It's still pretty crazy to see how many times the league MVP has gotten to the Super Bowl this century only to lose.
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From twitter:
Tom Brady
@TomBrady
·
1h
Congratulations on your retirement, and a great career Eli! Not going to lie though, I wish you hadn’t won any Super Bowls.
:lol Cheers to Eli from a Giants fan. I have much respect for him and his time here, plus his graceful exit as was always with him, he was a respectful guy. The way it should be done. I may be wearing blue and white, but I do think he is a borderline HOFer.
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I got to see Eli play once when I went to a Bears game vs. the Giants in Chicago a number of years ago. I've always liked him. I went to college with Dave Diehl, who was on the Giants' o-line and blocked for Eli for a long time before his retirement as well.
Pulling for the 49ers in the Super Bowl. I usually always root for the NFC team, though this time it's a bit more special. Garoppolo went to my high school, graduating 12 years after I did. The local media is in a frenzy, doing all sorts of stories with the coaches at the high school and people in town. That's pretty neat to see, and it would be awesome to watch him lead a team to victory as a starter.
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I think the more "fun fact" might be that teams with a league or conference MVP have been utterly abysmal in the Super Bowl. The last nine league MVPs' teams that made the Super Bowl have lost:
52: Brady's Patriots lost
51: Ryan's Falcons lost
50: Newton's Panthers lost
48: Peyton Manning's Broncos lost
44: Peyton Manning's Colts lost
42: Brady's Patriots lost
40: Shaun Alexander's Seahawks lost
37: Gannon's Raiders lost
36. Marshall Faulk's Rams lost
Warner was the MVP the season of SB36, not Faulk, but the point still remains. It's still pretty crazy to see how many times the league MVP has gotten to the Super Bowl this century only to lose.
Oops. I mis-read what I was looking at. Faulk won it the next two years (the years preceding 35 and 36.
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From twitter:
Tom Brady
@TomBrady
·
1h
Congratulations on your retirement, and a great career Eli! Not going to lie though, I wish you hadn’t won any Super Bowls.
:lol Cheers to Eli from a Giants fan. I have much respect for him and his time here, plus his graceful exit as was always with him, he was a respectful guy. The way it should be done. I may be wearing blue and white, but I do think he is a borderline HOFer.
I'm a huge fan of Eli, the player, and Eli the man. I love the class and dignity he showed through thick and thin. I think, ultimately, he's in the Hall Of Fame.
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I think Eli will wind up in the Hall of Fame, but I'm not sure that he actually deserves it.
*shrugs*
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Excluding his first and last seasons, Eli Manning was, if nothing else, a model of consistency. From 2005-18, he was the starting QB in all but one of the games played by the Giants. He had 7 winning seasons over that span, 5 losing seasons and 2 .500 seasons. Over all his seasons, his W-L record was 117-117. He was a 4-time Pro Bowler and never was an All Pro. I didn't do any sort of comparative analysis, but his numbers seem no better than above average, and he was absolutely never the best QB in the NFL.
Manning's teams made the playoffs six times. In the four non-Super Bowl seasons, his team was one-and-out each time.
So...here's a question...for those who think he should be in the HOF, would you still feel that way if the Giants had only won one of the two Super Bowls against the Patriots? If they Giants had lost both of those games? If the Giants had, e.g., lost in the NFCCG?
The rings are nice, but....
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There's an inherent logical flaw in this approach of who was the better QB each year. It's a tricky point, but it has to do with STATS vs ABILITY. Let's use this season as a first example. Who was better, Tannehill or Mahomes? The stats say Tannehill was better - best passer rating in the league, better completion % and yards per attempt. But who do we KNOW is actually better? How about Tannehill vs Brady. The stats say Tannehill was much better this year, but who would you trust with the game on the line? Kev, a Broncos fan, cites Cam Newton as better than Peyton Manning in 2015. Again, which of the 2 would you trust with the game on the line, Manning's diminished arm strength not withstanding?
How about Hasselbeck vs Roethlisberger 2005? Ben only threw 295 passes that year, so it's hard to gauge - but on a per-play basis, he was actually 2nd to Manning that year in success rate and better than Hasselbeck. And of course, which of the two is the actual Hall of Famer? In 2008, an injury-riddled season for Ben was the 2nd worst of his career - but his ABILITY at the time was still great, and in fact he proved that on the game-winning drive vs Warner. The point is, a QB's actual real ABILITY is a separate issue from his stats in that one particular season, it's a small sample size that doesn't tell the whole story.
Long-winded way of saying it's very problematic to say the best QB in the Super Bowl hasn't won much lately. Yes in 2016 Matt Ryan's stats were better than Brady's - but that means we're discounting 2015 and 2017 stats which are wholly relevant to whose ABILITY was actually better in 2016. Who proved who was actually better in the 2nd half of that Super Bowl? In this millenium, the better QB usually won unless he was going against a HISTORICALLY great defense - 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, 2013 Seahawks, etc; in those cases I agree with Kev in that in those cases it doesn't matter who the best QB was.
Ultimately of course it's all convoluted nonsense anyway as it is still very much a TEAM game. The QB doesn't play defense or special teams. Whichever TEAM plays best as a whole usually wins. Not saying anything there people don't already know.
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I've always thought Eli was a standup guy. It's his father that's the douchebag. As for the HOF, it'll take him a long while if he gets in. He might, but I wouldn't bet on it. He's not going to get in in the first couple of years, and after that the shine will start to wear off. Looking back at him in 20 years does he look like a HOFer?
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Excluding his first and last seasons, Eli Manning was, if nothing else, a model of consistency. From 2005-18, he was the starting QB in all but one of the games played by the Giants. He had 7 winning seasons over that span, 5 losing seasons and 2 .500 seasons. Over all his seasons, his W-L record was 117-117. He was a 4-time Pro Bowler and never was an All Pro. I didn't do any sort of comparative analysis, but his numbers seem no better than above average, and he was absolutely never the best QB in the NFL.
Manning's teams made the playoffs six times. In the four non-Super Bowl seasons, his team was one-and-out each time.
So...here's a question...for those who think he should be in the HOF, would you still feel that way if the Giants had only won one of the two Super Bowls against the Patriots? If they Giants had lost both of those games? If the Giants had, e.g., lost in the NFCCG?
The rings are nice, but....
You know my answer. I'm in the minority, but I think the sole objective in the NFL is to win football games. He won the biggest game of the year, twice, and was the MVP of both of those games. It would very much be a different conversation if he didn't win those, but he did, so that's what we work off. I can't pretend that Marino won two when looking at his numbers, so the same should apply here.
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I'm a Jets fan and I'm not anti-Giants or Eli (anybody who beats the Pats in the Super Bowl endears themselves to me greatly), but I don't think he deserves to go into the Hall and I don't think he's just off by a hair either. He was a good quarterback (for the most part) for a long number of years, he got hot twice in the playoffs on teams that also had very good defenses, and by all accounts he is an absolute class act/stand-up guy. He's a first ballot (unanimous even :) ) entrant into the Hall of Very Good. For me though, to be worthy of the Hall of Fame you have to be one of the very best at your position for at least a stretch of your career. Can anybody look back and ever say there weren't at least five other QBs in the league who you would've rather had on your team than him? QB rating isn't everything, but he only cracked top 10 in the league for QBR once, and even that one season he was like 8th. The Athletic had a roundtable discussion on his legacy the other day and one of the writers dropped some stats that I think better illustrate this: If you remove his rookie season and 2019 and look at 2005-2018, there were 66 QBs who attempted at least 1,000 passes. Among those QBs Eli ranks 42nd in completion percentage, 29th in yards per attempt, and 48th in interception percentage. He was very durable, so some of his spots on the alltime list look impressive because of the proliferation of passing stats in the modern NFL, but they certainly won't as a few more years go by.
I don't agree with putting too much stock in wins when evaluating a QB, but even if you want to go down that road Eli's career record is something like 111-103, barely above 500. I don't think he won a single playoff game outside of those two seasons. The SB wins are nice (again, I hate the Pats, they're really nice), but to me SB wins is something to push in a candidate whose overall individual performance is borderline. I don't see how you can look at Eli's numbers in the context of the era he played in and say he was one of the great QBs of his time.
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It's funny. I think it's who he beat that endures most to say he's a HOF.
His brother was a HOF even if he didn't win that 2nd SB
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Peyton had the kind of career that would have assured the HOF with or without SB wins.
Eli certainly did not. He wasn't an all-time great (which is what the HOF should celebrate), he just caught lightning in a bottle twice.
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Oh I agree. I think the 2 SB wins is what everybody talks about because of who they beat. Jim Plunket has 2 SB wins but he's not in.
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I think ultimately Eli will get in because he played in the biggest market in the country for one of the oldest franchises in the sport and his last name is Manning. If he had a different last name and did what he did in St. Louis instead of NY I don't think people would really be talking about him being HOF worthy.
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Excluding his first and last seasons, Eli Manning was, if nothing else, a model of consistency. From 2005-18, he was the starting QB in all but one of the games played by the Giants. He had 7 winning seasons over that span, 5 losing seasons and 2 .500 seasons. Over all his seasons, his W-L record was 117-117. He was a 4-time Pro Bowler and never was an All Pro. I didn't do any sort of comparative analysis, but his numbers seem no better than above average, and he was absolutely never the best QB in the NFL.
Manning's teams made the playoffs six times. In the four non-Super Bowl seasons, his team was one-and-out each time.
So...here's a question...for those who think he should be in the HOF, would you still feel that way if the Giants had only won one of the two Super Bowls against the Patriots? If they Giants had lost both of those games? If the Giants had, e.g., lost in the NFCCG?
The rings are nice, but....
I think doing it twice shows it was more than just a fluke helmet catch. Also, having watched all those games during those seasons when Eli was really a good QB and the teams as a whole were solid, Eli showed plenty of the ability to win games on his own. For awhile he was clutch in comebacks. He was also Super Bowl MVP both times supporting the idea that this guy was big in big moments (for a time, this did fade).
As for other stats if we want to go more into it:
7th all time in passing yards
7th all time in passing touchdowns (likely passed within a game or two next season by Aaron Rodgers though)
Never missed a game due to injury (I don't know how much this counts, but the ironman aspect of him is pretty impressive even if this really doesn't matter much for HOF)
2016 Walter Payton Man of the year (also not sure how much this weighs into anything, but it shows he's respected)
I do think he is borderline, and it probably does help being a well liked guy in the biggest market.
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I think the more "fun fact" might be that teams with a league or conference MVP have been utterly abysmal in the Super Bowl. The last nine league MVPs' teams that made the Super Bowl have lost:
52: Brady's Patriots lost
51: Ryan's Falcons lost
50: Newton's Panthers lost
48: Peyton Manning's Broncos lost
44: Peyton Manning's Colts lost
42: Brady's Patriots lost
40: Shaun Alexander's Seahawks lost
37: Gannon's Raiders lost
36. Marshall Faulk's Rams lost
Warner was the MVP the season of SB36, not Faulk, but the point still remains. It's still pretty crazy to see how many times the league MVP has gotten to the Super Bowl this century only to lose.
Oops. I mis-read what I was looking at. Faulk won it the next two years (the years preceding 35 and 36.
No, no.
Warner won the MVP in 1999 (the year they won Super Bowl 34).
Faulk won the MVP in 2000 (the year the Rams lost in the first round).
Warner won the MVP again in 2001 (the year they lost to NE in Super Bowl 36).
Talking the AP here, which is the one everyone looks at when discussing MVP awards.
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You know my answer. I'm in the minority, but I think the sole objective in the NFL is to win football games. He won the biggest game of the year, twice, and was the MVP of both of those games..
Yeah, but...
He lost as many games as he won, and...
Oh I agree. I think the 2 SB wins is what everybody talks about because of who they beat. Jim Plunket has 2 SB wins but he's not in.
And there you have it. If Eli is arguably a lock for the HOF, shouldn't Plunkett (also a .500 QB) be in? Or, asked in the negative, why should Eli get in when Plunkett didn't make it? Is it really because Eli won the MVP both times whereas Plunkett only won one?
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Valid.
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Over twice as many passing TDs and over twice as many passing yards as Plunkett. Different eras but not sure the eras amount to double the stats. But this is why he is borderline as it's the two wins and mvps that distinguish him over the rest of the borderline HOF QBs
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Over twice as many passing TDs and over twice as many passing yards as Plunkett. Different eras but not sure the eras amount to double the stats. But this is why he is borderline as it's the two wins and mvps that distinguish him over the rest of the borderline HOF QBs
I disagree. They distinguish him from the other QBs who won't make the HOF, not borderline guys.
Without the SB runs, his career is incredibly average, albeit certainly durable and long-lasting (which is what lands him on those career stats lists). His W-L record was 117-117, he was never, not ONCE, considered among the 3-4 best QBs in the league at any point, he never received one vote for MVP (not a VOTE - Chad Pennington finished second for MVP one year, FFS, but Eli never received any votes), and IIRC, he actually led the league in interceptions 3 separate times.
To me, it's open and shut - he doesn't belong. But I still think he will wind up there.
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I wouldn't put Eli in, but his two Super Bowl MVP awards, having played in NY, and his last name will all combine to get him in sooner probably rather than later. Basically, two drives are getting him in the Hall of Fame (the final drives of both Super Bowls). The offense scored 17 (17-14 win) and 19 (21-17 win, the defense scored a safety) points in those games, but all most remember are the final drives.
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David Tyree's helmet should be in the HOF.
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You know my answer. I'm in the minority, but I think the sole objective in the NFL is to win football games. He won the biggest game of the year, twice, and was the MVP of both of those games..
Yeah, but...
He lost as many games as he won, and...
Oh I agree. I think the 2 SB wins is what everybody talks about because of who they beat. Jim Plunket has 2 SB wins but he's not in.
And there you have it. If Eli is arguably a lock for the HOF, shouldn't Plunkett (also a .500 QB) be in? Or, asked in the negative, why should Eli get in when Plunkett didn't make it? Is it really because Eli won the MVP both times whereas Plunkett only won one?
You didn't ask me about Plunkett. I think he should be in.
To the point of "would you rather have Eli on your team over the rest of the QBs in the league" (I think Axeman asked that), and the answer is, I would. Who would I take over him? Brady, Brees, Manning, Warner, Rogers, (all who are or will be in the Hall Of Fame, given) but who after that? MAYBE Roethslisberger. MAYBE Wilson. Not taking Newton, not taking Ryan, not taking Rivers, certainly not taking McNabb or Romo. Rex Grossman?
And by the way, there CAN be more than one or even a handful of "great" QBs, and that's skewed here because you have arguably the greatest of all time and his closest competitor in that time frame. We didn't keep Kelly out because we already had Montana and Elway and Marino... That I would take Brady over Eli every day of the week and twice on Sunday says more about BRADY than it does about Eli.
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I think I assumed Plunkett was in.
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I think I assumed Plunkett was in.
Plunkett isn't and shouldn't be in. He was a mediocre to average QB who was fortunate to QB a pretty good team that played a mediocre Eagles team and a superior Redskins team that couldn't get out of its own way.
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I think I assumed Plunkett was in.
Plunkett isn't and shouldn't be in. He was a mediocre to average QB who was fortunate to QB a pretty good team that played a mediocre Eagles team and a superior Redskins team that couldn't get out of its own way.
Damn bro! Alrighty then. :lol
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I think I assumed Plunkett was in.
Plunkett isn't and shouldn't be in. He was a mediocre to average QB who was fortunate to QB a pretty good team that played a mediocre Eagles team and a superior Redskins team that couldn't get out of its own way.
I'm not sure I follow...
:) :) :) :tup
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Apparently the pg in pg1067 does not stand for plunkett great. :lol
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Seriously pg....tell us how you really feel. :P
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Apparently the pg in pg1067 does not stand for plunkett great. :lol
I'm still convinced it stands for Paul Gilbert :corn
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Not sure what's supposedly so controversial about PG's statement. That's such a commonly held opinion that I'm not sure even Plunkett would disagree with it.
But as far as Eli...I donno. He was pretty good. But I don't think I'd consider him HOF-worthy either. Who would I take over him? I don't think that's a very meaningful question. He's probably top 10-ish in most years he played. But that isn't really what you want in terms of a HOF endorsement. Not even close.
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Local media should start showing up in Miami tomorrow. Things are about to start getting fun and officially ramping up.
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Not sure what's supposedly so controversial about PG's statement.
There's nothing controversial about it. It was just emanating rage from it I felt while reading it. :lol
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"Unofficial reports" apparently say the Chargers are moving on from Rivers: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-chargers-have-moved-on-from-qb-philip-rivers-194024103.html Interesting.
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I saw that too. I think it's got legs.
Bra-dyBra-dyBra-dyBra-dyBra-dyBra-dyBra-dyBra-dy
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"Unofficial reports" apparently say the Chargers are moving on from Rivers: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-chargers-have-moved-on-from-qb-philip-rivers-194024103.html Interesting.
I heard something on the radio (I think it was Dan Patrick's show) about how Rivers and his family have relocated from San Diego to somewhere in the southeast (he's from Alabama), so this is pretty much a foregone conclusion.
Rich Eisen (who lives in LA) was on the show and was talking about how the Chargers signing Brady (assuming he doesn't go back to Pats) would help secure the Chargers in the LA marketplace. I happen to think he's full of it. Brady isn't well-liked out here and probably wouldn't be any upgrade over Rivers, and the Chargers would need a heckuva lot more than a 43 year old (at the start of the 2020 season) QB to make any ground in a marketplace that never wanted them and where they'll be a tenant in another team's stadium.
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If Brady doesn't stay in NE, I wouldn't mind that. At least I could root for the Chargers again.
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Well, there's a Roku and Fox Sports fiasco going on. Roku removed all the Fox apps so you need to find another service or app to stream the game.
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OK, since the weekend is almost officially upon us, bosk1 official prediction:
49ers: 34
Chiefs: 24
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I'll go with 31-28 49ers.
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Rooting for the Niners but thinking Chiefs 34-24.
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Niners in OT 34-28
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Niners in OT 34-28
Not sure my heart could handle OT....
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I'm predicting Niners 37-17. A bit optimistic perhaps, but I think the Niners have this easily.
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Obviously I'm pulling for the Niners, though I think this is a pretty balanced matchup and will definitely be won in the 4th quarter. I got a bad feeling this game will not be one for the weak hearted.
On a total side note, it's been beyond hilarious how here in the Bay Area, and I'm sure Bosk has seen it in Sac as well, how all the GS Warrior swag that has been omni-present has been progressively replaced by Niner swag over the past month or so. Shirts, hats, sweatshirts, car flags, what not, you gotta look really really hard to even see GS stuff anymore. Fucking sellouts :lol
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Looking at the Patriots success and now the 2 teams in the SB, is the Tight End the 2nd most important position for successful offensive teams in the NFL?
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Looking at the Patriots success and now the 2 teams in the SB, is the Tight End the 2nd most important position for successful offensive teams in the NFL?
It could be argued for sure. The Niner offense was a completely different beast when Kittle was sidelined with injury.
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And the same could be said with Gronk retiring.
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Meanwhile, having a stud RB is less important now than ever. The starting RB's in the Super Bowl are Damien Williams and Raheem Mostert. Meanwhile, Christian McCaffrey just had an all-world season on a Panthers team that was a mess and lost their last eight games. And Saquon Barkley has just seen two of his prime years wasted on a terrible Giants team.
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I remember in the 80's that the RB was the most important position. Crazy how it changes over deacades.
Also, how nuts was nuts was Marino's second season in that era?!
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I think Marino is kind of an arrogant dick, but there is no doubt that throwing for 48 TD passes in 16 games in 1984 was insane.
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Really pulling for the 49ers in this one and I do think they'll pull it off. 37-31 49ers.
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Do they put up all the Hall of Fame nominees in a hotel and say "Just hang out for a while, David Baker may, or may not, knock on your door"?
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Do they put up all the Hall of Fame nominees in a hotel and say "Just hang out for a while, David Baker may, or may not, knock on your door"?
From what I’ve heard, that’s pretty much how it works.
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The Ravens were the only team to play both SB finalists, but the situations and weather and locales made any type of comparisons mute.
Moving on, Robert Saleh (and GB HC Matt LaFleur) were both on the Central Michigan staff sixteen years ago.
Both the 49ers (1st round pick Joe Staley) and Chiefs (1st overall pick Eric Fisher) have Chippewa alums.
So, going by the numbers (and that if SF keeps KC off the field for long stretches of 'real time'), I will take the Bay Area team by six. By analysis, if SF only needs four to put pressure on Mahomes, they stand the better chance. And, maybe they just win because Garoppolo is the type of QB that a team wins with.
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Love seeing Steve Atwater and Isaac Bruce make the Hall of Fame. Both inductions are long overdue.
Hoping for a close game today. Should be a good one! :tup :tup
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So yeah, I use an HD antenna for local channels, and they all come in really well. Except Fox can be spotty. Which it is being right now.
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That INT was unexcusable.
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I think it's a mistake by Shanahan not doing something with the final possession of the first half.
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Shanahan is gonna catch heat for that if they go on to lose the game. They could have called timeout at 1:50 and gotten it back after the punt with two timeouts and around 1:40 left. Somewhere, his dad is thinking, "I didn't teach you to coach that gutless."
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Reminiscent of the Pats-Atl SB.
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Reminiscent of the Pats-Atl SB.
That was the opposite. He was too pass-happy in the second half when they should have been running it and killing clock.
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Don’t care what happens for the rest of the game, Shakira imitating a turkey sound is the best part of the night.
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I think the Chiefs blew the game when they failed to get 7 off that dumb Jimmy G pick.
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Reminiscent of the Pats-Atl SB.
That was the opposite. He was too pass-happy in the second half when they should have been running it and killing clock.
The same in that he completely misplayed the sequence. Don't argue with me. :lol
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Oh my those ladies for the halftime show :hat :hat
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KC is being aggressive what with going for it 4th down several times, but it's clear based on their play calling that they are deeply concerned about the 49ers pass rush; a lot of short pass attempts and quick throws by Mahomes. They did hit Watkins once on a deep pass; they need to at least try a few more of those.
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Oh my those ladies for the halftime show :hat :hat
Jennifer Lopez is the most overrated female on the planet.
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When you have a Dream
https://twitter.com/Palomo_ESPN/status/1224129545881767936
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Oh my those ladies for the halftime show :hat :hat
Jennifer Lopez is the most overrated female on the planet.
I need a better explanation. Lol
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:rollin
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You know where I'm going with this. Lol
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Not really.. :lol :lol
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I texted you.
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TAC knows who Jennifer Lopez is?
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I texted you.
So true.
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AMIRITE?! LOL
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(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o7btQDFlvGcv8PXt6/giphy.gif)
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Niners are going to need another TD.
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Oh what a surprise Mahomes gets hit in the face mask like Brady did last year but no flag.
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Niners secondary let them down on this drive big time.
To have them 3rd & 15 to give up that bomb??
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Reminiscent of the Pats-Atl SB.
That was the opposite. He was too pass-happy in the second half when they should have been running it and killing clock.
Just did the same damn thing!
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49ers falling flat on their faces this quarter.
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Jesus, what a game.
Jimmy G. Your legacy hangs in the balance.
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I almost like it better this way. I'd rather see the Niners blow it than be blown out. It's more satisfying this way.
:angel: :angel: :angel:
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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You can only hold KC back for so long.
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BALL GAME BABY!!!!
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Niners just lost it at the end. Giving up big plays.
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KC deserves all the accolades. That's one hell of a 4th quarter.
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Rooting for the Niners but thinking Chiefs 34-24.
Final Score..
Chiefs 31-20
;D
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Happy as hell for the Chiefs (except for Hill.) 50 years is a long ass wait. Great time to be a Missouri sports fan as well given the Blues recent Championship.
AFC has now won 5 out of the last 6 Super Bowls.
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Congrats to Andy Reid and the KC Chiefs. :tup
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Chiefs D came up big and gave the offense the chance to work their magic. Congrats to Andy Reid and the Kansas City Chiefs.
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HOW BOUT DEM CHIEFS!!!!!!!!
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HOW BOUT DEM CHIEFS!!!!!!!!
HOLY SHIT!! I thought you were banned. Love you brah.
I was pulling bug time for SF. Got to give it up for the 4th quarter for KC.
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Maybe the forum glitched or I was unbanned and not notified. Who knows. After having a living arrangement crisis, the second worst illness of my life this past week, and the third straight Saints playoff debacle, I needed this.
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Two questions...
Has someone checked to see if Stadler is ok?
Can someone make a compilation of all of Stadler's anti-Reid/anti-Mahomes comments?
:biggrin:
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Awesome comeback. That 49ers D is something else and had Mahomes rattled, but he kept fighting and got it done. Congrats to the Chiefs, Mahomes and Andy Reid!
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I feel bad for Bosky, but I’m pretty happy for Stadler.
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Oh, and how great was it to see Richard Sherman burned badly by Sammy Watkins late in the 4th? That put KC in FG position to at least tie the game, and in true Mahomes fashion he got them the TD on 3rd down to give them the lead that they never relinquished.
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Two questions...
Has someone checked to see if Stadler is ok?
Can someone make a compilation of all of Stadler's anti-Reid/anti-Mahomes comments?
:biggrin:
I was thinking the same thing. :biggrin:
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Well shit...
Probably a good thing I had to attend an AA meeting from 6-7 and miss the whole comeback part of the game. :lol
Congrats Chefs.... and feeling very optimistic about the Niners future.
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Oh, and how great was it to see Richard Sherman burned badly by Sammy Watkins late in the 4th? That put KC in FG position to at least tie the game, and in true Mahomes fashion he got them the TD on 3rd down to give them the lead that they never relinquished.
He was also the defender who didn't get there in time to save the TD. Sooooo satisfying.
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Probably a good thing I had to attend an AA meeting from 6-7 and miss the whole comeback part of the game. :lol
Wow, that meeting was aptly timed. :lol
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Just from Page 1...
Two, I think Sean McVay and Anthony Lynn are not in the same boat as Andy Reid. They are learning. Andy has been there, and I get that this is cold, but I just don't see him as a championship coach. You can't really say "well, they got beat by the GOAT"; sure, they did, but you have to beat the champion to BE the champion. You and I can quibble about what "fold" means, but I feel comfortable with my prediction. 100% accurate? No, but close enough.
You can argue, you CERTAINLY do not have to agree with me, but Andy Reid's stack of Super Bowl rings speaks for itself (as a head coach, he has exactly the same number as I do, for the record).
Update? :P
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I hate how incorrect the phrase "You have to beat the [best] to be the [best]." is yet people throw it around like it's some kind of inescapable policy enforced by the hand of God. The Pats lost in the wildcard this year so only one team had to play them. If the NFL playoffs were a round robin, that phrase would actually matter but until then it's as stale, needlessly perpetuated, and inaccurate as "Defense wins championships."
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Just from Page 1...
Two, I think Sean McVay and Anthony Lynn are not in the same boat as Andy Reid. They are learning. Andy has been there, and I get that this is cold, but I just don't see him as a championship coach. You can't really say "well, they got beat by the GOAT"; sure, they did, but you have to beat the champion to BE the champion. You and I can quibble about what "fold" means, but I feel comfortable with my prediction. 100% accurate? No, but close enough.
You can argue, you CERTAINLY do not have to agree with me, but Andy Reid's stack of Super Bowl rings speaks for itself (as a head coach, he has exactly the same number as I do, for the record).
Update? :P
Kev, how many times a day do you get punched in the face? :lol
Update?
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Oh what a surprise Mahomes gets hit in the face mask like Brady did last year but no flag.
Yea I was like :huh:
Chiefs outscored Niners 21-0 in the 4th. Yikes.
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Watched the game with my friends father who is a big Cheifs fan, really happy for him and their fans. Glad it was a good and entertaining game :yarr
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Kev, how many times a day do you get punched in the face? :lol
Not as many times as I deserve. :P
Chiefs outscored Niners 21-0 in the 4th. Yikes.
In the last two Super Bowls that Kyle Shanahan coached, his team has been outscored 46-0 in the 4th quarter and overtime. :eek :eek :eek
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For a guy whose name starts with "Ky", his opponents sure haven't used any on him near the end of those two Super Bowls.
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Probably a good thing I had to attend an AA meeting from 6-7 and miss the whole comeback part of the game. :lol
Wow, that meeting was aptly timed. :lol
Yeah, and attendance is usually around 150 to 200, tonight there was like 30 people there. I currently run the meeting so I couldn't sneak out of it like everyone else :lol
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Mahomes is a tough sob. He took some SHOTS.
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At least now we can say that Richard Sherman prevented the Niners from winning a Super Bowl with two different teams.
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At least now we can say that Richard Sherman prevented the Niners from winning a Super Bowl with two different teams.
:lol :lol
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At least now we can say that Richard Sherman prevented the Niners from winning a Super Bowl with two different teams.
Reminds me of the writer who was writing about SB XII and had something along these lines to say about Craig Morton:
"For years, all he wanted to do was help the Cowboys win a title. And today, he finally did."
Only problem was that he was now a Bronco and his 4 picks were what helped them win 27-10.
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For a guy whose name starts with "Ky", his opponents sure haven't used any on him near the end of those two Super Bowls.
Glorious.
I watch one game a year .... just glad it was an entertaining one.
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SportsCenter
@SportsCenter
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15m
Patrick Mahomes is 5-0 when trailing by double-digits.
That’s the best single-season record by a QB in NFL history
:omg:
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As a life-long Chiefs fan I'm savoring this victory. It was the most entertaining Super Bowl in recent memory. Mahomes is not only an amazing athlete but an amazing leader and person. This team has the talent to be good for a long time.
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I feel bad for Bosky, but I’m pretty happy for Stadler.
That's just mean. Seriously?
For the record - and for Kev too, who asked - what would you have me say? My standard is wins. Reid got it. He's there. It's not personal with me, so did you expect me to make excuses? I didn't call it, but there's a lot of things in this world I haven't called. He's earned the praise. I have no problem with him being reckoned with the greats. He's not Belichick, but who is? He's certainly in that next level - Carroll, Reid, Payton - and from a purely personal standpoint, I'm happy for him and his family.
As for Mahomes, I still think he's a dick (not sure how one win makes him an "amazing person") but he showed grit, toughness, and no quit, all things I admire. There are things to quibble - that floater to Watkins late in the game is on the Tyree level to me, and for me, the pass interference calls were a little inconsistent - but they won. They came back, beat a good team, and won. On the other side, Jimmy G. didn't step up, and played to his critics (what was that about the 49ers not wanting to put it in Jim's hands late in the game?), and Kittle didn't show up either (4-36-0). Not sure why anyone would expect me to say anything different.
Though I will add this: I expected a lot better of Kyle Shanahan. He's been there before (on the front end of a big lead, late), he surely knew the Chiefs propensity to come back, and.... let it happen. Maybe he pressed TOO hard, but he should have known that he had to take the game to the Chiefs when they got the ball with, what, 12:00 left in the 4th? Instead they went three and out, and the Chiefs went 87 yards for a score.
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Great game. Everything I could have hoped for.
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Congrats to the state of Kansas.
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Congrats to the state of Kansas.
:lol
On the way to work, not a Niners shirt in sight. No fucking love man...
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Stadler, my post to you was all in good fun, which had to be done considering your criticism of Reid over the years. We all have to eat a little crow sometimes. :P
And I am with ya in regards to Shanahan. He blew this big time. My brother and I must have looked at each half a dozen times like, "What is he doing?" They were gashing KC on the ground, yet only ran it 22 times total. Mostert, who was unstoppable in the NFCCG, didn't even touch the ball until they were down 10-3 in the 2nd quarter (and hey look at that, they went right down the field for a TD when they gave him the ball). The clever misdirection plays with Deebo Samuel went away in the 4th quarter. And despite all of that, if Garoppolo doesn't overthrow an open Emmanuel Sanders with less two left, they still could have won. Jimmy G will probably have nightmares about that throw for years.
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Maybe the forum glitched
No glitch. Temp bans are, by nature, temporary. Glad you are back.
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Stadler, my post to you was all in good fun, which had to be done considering your criticism of Reid over the years. We all have to eat a little crow sometimes. :P
And I am with ya in regards to Shanahan. He blew this big time. My brother and I must have looked at each half a dozen times like, "What is he doing?" They were gashing KC on the ground, yet only ran it 22 times total. Mostert, who was unstoppable in the NFCCG, didn't even touch the ball until they were down 10-3 in the 2nd quarter (and hey look at that, they went right down the field for a TD when they gave him the ball). The clever misdirection plays with Deebo Samuel went away in the 4th quarter. And despite all of that, if Garoppolo doesn't overthrow an open Emmanuel Sanders with less two left, they still could have won. Jimmy G will probably have nightmares about that throw for years.
No doubt I deserve it; I was pretty adamant about my beliefs. :)
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No doubt I deserve it; I was pretty adamant about my beliefs. :)
You don't say!! :neverusethis:
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I'm just curious how Patrick Mahomes is a dick. Did I miss something during an interview at some point? Stadler, can you elaborate?
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I'm just curious how Patrick Mahomes is a dick. Did I miss something during an interview at some point? Stadler, can you elaborate?
I was thinking the something. I haven’t seen poor behavior from him. Are we missing something?
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I feel bad for Bosky, but I’m pretty happy for Stadler.
That's just mean. Seriously?
:huh:
I guess I've misunderstood your posts...I thought you've been saying that Reid needed to win the big one to be legit in your eyes. He won one, I thought you'd be happy. :dunno:
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The only way I can describe how great Mahomes is, I guess, this run-on sentence: Against the best pass defense in the league who harried him all game, abused his o-line for 3 quarters, chased him from the pocket continously, forced him into bad throws, hit him as hard as they could on multiple occasions, sacked him 4 times, forced 2 fumbles, picked him off twice, placed him into multiple 4th-down-conversion attempts - he still put up 31 points.
Of course Shanahan's terribly conservative decision-making played a role. He "felt good" going into the half at 10-10 :lol. Niners are scary good and will be back with a vengeance next year. However, Jimmy G is going to have to live with that finishing performance for awhile: 3 of 11 for 36 yards, and over-throwing the probable game-winning TD.
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Congrats to the state of Kansas.
:facepalm: Yup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9zQLSS9LHw
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Why do they call that guy in the Chiefs the Honey Badger, and why do other grown men refer to him as that!
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From wiki:
The 2011 YouTube viral video The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger[58] popularized the image of honey badgers as fearless and erratic, including the catchphrase Honey badger don't care. Honey badger is a frequently used nickname for professional athletes, primarily being used for an athlete that is known for being tough and fearless. Rugby player Nick Cummins, Australian Formula 1 driver Daniel Ricciardo, Cuban footballer Osvaldo Alonso,[60] and American football player Tyrann Mathieu are notable athletes who have received the nickname honey badger at some point in their careers.
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Why do they call that guy in the Chiefs the Honey Badger, and why do other grown men refer to him as that!
??? What's wrong with "other grown men" referring to him as that? People do it with other athletes' nicknames all the time. I don't understand your supposed objection.
As to why, you could have just taken 3 second to Google it.
Mathieu earned the nickname "The Honey Badger" for his tenacious ability to play extremely tough football against much larger opponents, as well as his knack for making big plays.
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Why+is+Tyrann+Mathieu+nicknamed+honey+badger%3F
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I feel bad for Bosky, but I’m pretty happy for Stadler.
That's just mean. Seriously?
:huh:
I guess I've misunderstood your posts...I thought you've been saying that Reid needed to win the big one to be legit in your eyes. He won one, I thought you'd be happy. :dunno:
You're right, that I felt he needed the win to be considered one of the greats, but I also said somewhere that I didn't think Reid had it in him to win the big game. And I seriously didn't. He certainly knows how to put together a team and a scheme, but I long questioned his ability to manage game situations. I'm not a huge fan of his from his days with the Eagles, and wasn't "rooting" for him yesterday. I was rooting for Jimmy G. and the 49ers.
That's not to say I'm not reasonable; he DID win it, he earned it, and it's deserved. He showed he was legitimately one of the better coaches in the league.
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As to why, you could have just taken 3 second to Google it.
Not only is DTF my Facebook, it is also my Google. ;D
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I'm not a massive NFL fan....just a casual one at best. Didn't have a horse in this race at all but from what I saw the SF coach was a huge wuss at the end of the first half that probably cost him some good momentum could they have gotten at least a FG and then the ball back.
KC has a ton of weapons. I'm not a big Mahomes fan due to I think he was so hyped without really proving much when it counted. Last night he quieted a lot of people like me. Kudos to him. Everything I've read about him he seems to be a 'good guy'.
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Hey Stadler, I'm still curious why you think Mahomes is a dick.
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The only way I can describe how great Mahomes is, I guess, this run-on sentence: Against the best pass defense in the league who harried him all game, abused his o-line for 3 quarters, chased him from the pocket continously, forced him into bad throws, hit him as hard as they could on multiple occasions, sacked him 4 times, forced 2 fumbles, picked him off twice, placed him into multiple 4th-down-conversion attempts - he still put up 31 points.
I don't feel like I have to defend what's been said continuously over the past two years, but this is a large part of why I don't like Mahomes. That's just one way of looking at it. An awful lot happened in that game that doesn't have squat to do with Mahomes that led to that victory.
You've also got Shanahan's terribly conservative decision-making and a blown throw by Jimmy G., as you said. He should have known better after that Falcons/Patriots game. But he didn't. Add to that a heave to Watkins (I think) while three 49ers basically stood and thought the other guy was going to cover him, a bad PI call (bad in the sense that the D-back made a bad play, not that the call was blown), and a head-scratching deviation from the dates that got you to the dance to begin with (Mostert and Kittle) and you have a lost Super Bowl.
I don't find 26/42, 286, 2, 2, 78.6 to be "great"*. He did what he had to do, and that's admirable, and he gets to celebrate three massive come-from-behind wins in the same post-season (really impressive). I am not at all, in any way shape or form saying that he's not deserving of the win, or that he doesn't get to take his share of the credit for the win. End of the day, he delivered on what I think is the most important statistic: the win. I'm more centered on the reaction to him; for two+ years I watched many anointing him the best QB in the league without having won a Super Bowl, to now several pundits calling these Chiefs a "dynasty in the making". I guess I don't understand why we can't wait for the history to be made before celebrating it. We've called easily four or five teams"dynasties in the making" over the past ten years, and precisely none of them actually became dynasties. The Rams. The Saints. The Eagles. The Seahawks. The Panthers.
Add to that the on-field nonsense, the posing, the flexing, the snarky smirk every time a flag gets thrown, and I'm not a fan. But I don't have to be. I do recognize him as a very good quarterback who earned and won a Super Bowl.
* Depending on how you value statistics, that is arguably Brady's second or third WORST Super Bowl performance out of nine.
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Yeah, the Chiefs have a handful of superstar players, both those guys aren't winning games by themselves. I see that team as one cohesive unit in all phases including coaching. Yeah, they have their "lull" moments, but they finish strong in the 2nd half and that's what counts. Those players really have a lot of heart and determination and it comes from leadership among the players and coaches. I don't think one of those players had a stand out, spectacular game. In 3 qtrs., they had the turnovers and were losing the time of possession battle. I thought they were done. The 4th qtr, they rallied on defense and the offense was executing with good situational play calling. The coaching staff gave those players every chance to win and they did.
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Yeah, the Chiefs have a handful of superstar players, both those guys aren't winning games by themselves. I see that team as one cohesive unit in all phases including coaching. Yeah, they have their "lull" moments, but they finish strong in the 2nd half and that's what counts. Those players really have a lot of heart and determination and it comes from leadership among the players and coaches. I don't think one of those players had a stand out, spectacular game. In 3 qtrs., they had the turnovers and were losing the time of possession battle. I thought they were done. The 4th qtr, they rallied on defense and the offense was executing with good situational play calling. The coaching staff gave those players every chance to win and they did.
I will say this, and this isn't entirely characteristic of every Reid team over the past 21 years, but they play 60 full minutes every week, and I love that.
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I will say this, and this isn't entirely characteristic of every Reid team over the past 21 years, but they play 60 full minutes every week, and I love that.
No they don't. They took the first quarter off in every playoff game this season. They are simply not ready to go. Mahomes is the reason they are where they are. They're barely a playoff team if the Bears chose him, and the Chiefs took Trubisky.
I mean, I don't want to be put in a position to beat on Andy Reid. They guy can coach...but..
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I will say this, and this isn't entirely characteristic of every Reid team over the past 21 years, but they play 60 full minutes every week, and I love that.
No they don't. They took the first quarter off in every playoff game this season. They are simply not ready to go. Mahomes is the reason they are where they are. They're barely a playoff team if the Bears chose him, and the Chiefs took Trubisky.
I mean, I don't want to be put in a position to beat on Andy Reid. They guy can coach...but..
Haha, fair point. I just meant there's no quit in them and I like that. Counter that with Donovan "I don't feel good" McNabb hyperventilating in the huddle while playing the Patriots.
Nothing to do with Mahomes, but on a completely separate matter, I would like to see Trubisky on a team that knows how to develop a QB. I know Nagy is highly regarded - and is a Reid guy - but he's NOT Reid. The guy has physical talent, his head isn't there yet.
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I think McNabb, for whatever reason, couldn't finish that game. I would never accuse the guy of not having stones. He may not have the stones that Mahomes has, but he also does not have the talent Mahomes has either.
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Last night showed how important defense is and how they can change the narrative.
Mahomes looked rattled in the second half and both interceptions were terrible (the first was a "I don't know what he was thinking" throw, and the second was way behind Hill, which is why it got deflected and then picked), but the defense held it at 20-10 (the 49ers inexplicably bizarre play-calling sure helped), and then the Chiefs had that 44-yard play to Hill and the momentum flipped. Had the 49ers kept scoring and the deficit gotten larger, it is very possible that Mahomes presses too much and the game gets totally away from him, ala Peyton Manning against the Seahawks or John Elway against the 49ers.
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Why do they call that guy in the Chiefs the Honey Badger, and why do other grown men refer to him as that!
I still get a chuckle when I watch movies from the 70s and guys call each other baby. Dawn of the Dead has a whole lot of that. I think a couple of sugars, too.
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I guess I don't understand why we can't wait for the history to be made before celebrating it. We've called easily four or five teams"dynasties in the making" over the past ten years, and precisely none of them actually became dynasties. The Rams. The Saints. The Eagles. The Seahawks. The Panthers.
As a large Panthers fan, I can assure you that no one other than an idiot ever referred to them as a dynasty in the making at any point in time. I certainly don't recall ever hearing them described that way.
Add to that the on-field nonsense, the posing, the flexing, the snarky smirk every time a flag gets thrown, and I'm not a fan.
This makes you sound so old.
Besides, he may do some of this stuff, but he doesn't do it enough to make me think of him as being known for that stuff. And even if he were, most of the NFL does similar stuff. Hell, I've seen your golden boy Brady do some of that stuff.
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I'm still bothered by the Icky Shuffle.
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I'm not a massive NFL fan....just a casual one at best. Didn't have a horse in this race at all but from what I saw the SF coach was a huge wuss at the end of the first half that probably cost him some good momentum could they have gotten at least a FG and then the ball back.
That's the no. 1 question on all the minds out here, along with why they didn't just cram it down their throats till they showed they could stop it. The one drive where we did that, we ran through them like butter.
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Add to that the on-field nonsense, the posing, the flexing, the snarky smirk every time a flag gets thrown, and I'm not a fan.
This makes you sound so old.
Besides, he may do some of this stuff, but he doesn't do it enough to make me think of him as being known for that stuff. And even if he were, most of the NFL does similar stuff. Hell, I've seen your golden boy Brady do some of that stuff.
I wish DTF had a "like" system so I could heart like this.
I'm still bothered by the Icky Shuffle.
:rollin I loved doing that as a 7 year old. XXIII was the first SB I watched and I remember feeling like a real fan cuz I could do that dance so, to my young mind, it made me a legit fan.
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At least now we can say that Richard Sherman prevented the Niners from winning a Super Bowl with two different teams.
Haha yea somebody made a meme saying something like that.
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I guess I don't understand why we can't wait for the history to be made before celebrating it. We've called easily four or five teams"dynasties in the making" over the past ten years, and precisely none of them actually became dynasties. The Rams. The Saints. The Eagles. The Seahawks. The Panthers.
As a large Panthers fan, I can assure you that no one other than an idiot ever referred to them as a dynasty in the making at any point in time. I certainly don't recall ever hearing them described that way.
Add to that the on-field nonsense, the posing, the flexing, the snarky smirk every time a flag gets thrown, and I'm not a fan.
This makes you sound so old.
Besides, he may do some of this stuff, but he doesn't do it enough to make me think of him as being known for that stuff. And even if he were, most of the NFL does similar stuff. Hell, I've seen your golden boy Brady do some of that stuff.
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I've been that way since I can remember though. I remember playing in a flag football league, and it was sort of a goof thing for this one team - they were literally the Chiefs, in that their QB could throw about 70 yards in the air - and they would get the ball and just take shots down-field. Every score would be this big obnoxious celebration. The few times I scored I just handed the ball to the referee or just put it on the ground. I dislike it when Brady does it, I dislike it when OBJ, Jr. does it, so it's nothing personal against Mahomes. I just think it's silly.
I'm reading a biography about Lou Gehrig right now, and he may now be my favorite player of all time in baseball. Hard-nosed, never quit, but didn't engage in any of the nonsense that Ruth did, almost to a fault. My kind of player. One time? He got beaned in the head by a guy who was, shall we say, having a bad day (it was an exhibition, and he was a Yankee prospect that got lit up for two innings). He went around talking smack about how "someone had to end that stupid streak". Next day, Gehrig, with a concussion, went out and hit three triples, drove in x runs and led the team to victory. I almost had a boner.
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No dog in the fight BTW.
You have to purposefully look crazy hard to see Mahomes behavior as even annoying compared to many in the NFL. I'm a Dolphins fan, and I don't see it at all. But hey, if you get boners watching players with no emotion, hand the ball to the ref, well that is just fine with me. But to rise to the level of calling him a "dick"? That smacks of just being a Hater. I don't even like the word hater, but I just can't find another word to describe why someone would call Mahomes a "dick".
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I'm not sure I can make the leap to equate *you* not liking the celebratory aspect of a sport makes the player(s) a "dick".
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I'm definitely a "hater." But that's solely because he took Alex Smith's job. I haven't really seen anything conduct-wise, on or off the field, that makes me dislike him even one bit. In fact, I quite like him as a person and a player, just from the little glimpses I've seen. But, yeah, I still hate him. :)
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I only throw that hate word because they are a rival and he is the real deal at QB. His girlfriend is the annoying one. He's been great in the media so far.
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I love Pat Mahomes.
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I'm not sure I can make the leap to equate *you* not liking the celebratory aspect of a sport makes the player(s) a "dick".
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Agreed. Stads, you said he was a dick, but I haven't yet seen why.
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To prove Chad and Hef's point, a few teammates are already talking Dynasty after winning one SB declaring they slayed the dragon, "The Patriots" and Mahomes is pumping the brakes on this big time.
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/kansas-city-chiefs-believe-they-are-starting-a-dynasty
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To prove Chad and Hef's point, a few teammates are already talking Dynasty after winning one SB declaring they slayed the dragon, "The Patriots" and Mahomes is pumping the brakes on this big time.
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/kansas-city-chiefs-believe-they-are-starting-a-dynasty
Yup. He's done nothing but do and say the right things every step of the way. Very mature. Unusual humility for an athlete that talented. Love him.
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Did anyone else hear that stat on Mahomes in 3rd and 15 or longer, compared to other QBs? Ludicrous. A 99.9 QBR versus 1.9. 13 of 17 for 299 yds, 3 tds and no picks :omg:.
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To prove Chad and Hef's point, a few teammates are already talking Dynasty after winning one SB declaring they slayed the dragon, "The Patriots" and Mahomes is pumping the brakes on this big time.
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/kansas-city-chiefs-believe-they-are-starting-a-dynasty
Yup. He's done nothing but do and say the right things every step of the way. Very mature. Unusual humility for an athlete that talented. Love him.
Yes, he handles himself very well. He's a leader for sure this early in his career.
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I'm not sure I can make the leap to equate *you* not liking the celebratory aspect of a sport makes the player(s) a "dick".
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Agreed. Stads, you said he was a dick, but I haven't yet seen why.
I've also said multiple times that you (collective) don't have to agree. I've said why I feel like I do. I think it's a dick move to prance and pout and strut and flex and point and whatever. If that's not your standard or anyone else's, so be it. I'm not trying to change your standard, I'm talking about mine. I don't think it allows people to call me a "hater" - that speaks to their character not mine - but I own it.
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Stads, does that mean you think roughly 95% of all NFL players are dicks? I see a lot of them doing that stuff on the field even after just making a tackle. Which seems kinda ridiculous, but by no means dick..ish.
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I'm not sure I can make the leap to equate *you* not liking the celebratory aspect of a sport makes the player(s) a "dick".
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Agreed. Stads, you said he was a dick, but I haven't yet seen why.
I've also said multiple times that you (collective) don't have to agree. I've said why I feel like I do. I think it's a dick move to prance and pout and strut and flex and point and whatever. If that's not your standard or anyone else's, so be it. I'm not trying to change your standard, I'm talking about mine. I don't think it allows people to call me a "hater" - that speaks to their character not mine - but I own it.
Wait, that's it?
I mean, OK.
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To prove Chad and Hef's point, a few teammates are already talking Dynasty after winning one SB declaring they slayed the dragon, "The Patriots" and Mahomes is pumping the brakes on this big time.
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/kansas-city-chiefs-believe-they-are-starting-a-dynasty
This happens almost every time a team wins their first Super Bowl: many talk like it will be the first of many, and yet it almost never happens that way. In the last 20+ years, the Rams, Seahawks and Eagles were all going to win multiple titles, yet it was one and done (Philly could still win another, but it feels like they are not close). The Chiefs strike me as a team that will celebrate a lot and feel all good but themselves and be not nearly as hungry next year. Maybe I am wrong, but despite having a HoF QB and the best QB in the league, they feel like a "one championship and done" team, especially since Mahomes is gonna get the biggest contract ever either this offseason or next, and then it's good luck keeping all of that talent around him.
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My point is,that Mahomes poo poo'd it like a good leader.
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To prove Chad and Hef's point, a few teammates are already talking Dynasty after winning one SB declaring they slayed the dragon, "The Patriots" and Mahomes is pumping the brakes on this big time.
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/kansas-city-chiefs-believe-they-are-starting-a-dynasty
This happens almost every time a team wins their first Super Bowl: many talk like it will be the first of many, and yet it almost never happens that way. In the last 20+ years, the Rams, Seahawks and Eagles were all going to win multiple titles, yet it was one and done (Philly could still win another, but it feels like they are not close). The Chiefs strike me as a team that will celebrate a lot and feel all good but themselves and be not nearly as hungry next year. Maybe I am wrong, but despite having a HoF QB and the best QB in the league, they feel like a "one championship and done" team, especially since Mahomes is gonna get the biggest contract ever either this offseason or next, and then it's good luck keeping all of that talent around him.
I don't think "one and done." But I don't think they will be frequent contenders either. They strike me as being more along the lines of Eli's Giants or Roethlisberger's Steelers, where they are in playoff contention most years, and maybe manage to get back to another SB when the stars align for them in a few years. But who knows? :dunno:
Trying not to be too much of a homer, I think the '9ers are in a bit better long-term position, simply because they are really good in almost every aspect of their game, and have a lot of relatively young talent at all phases as well. Yeah, their roster is going to take some hits in this offseason, and they lost a LOT of draft capitol with some of the moves they made this last season. But they are still in very good shape overall, I think.
EDIT: Going back to the Chiefs for a second, I guess I should modify my statement just a bit. I know it's early in Mahomes' career, and it's far too easy and shortsighted to come away from a SB win feeling like a young SB-MVP QB is going to be the next "greatest ever." But Mahomes clearly is different. We've gotten to see some consistent MVP-caliber play from him over the two full seasons he played. And even though he played in...was it only that week 17 game his rookie year?...in the 2017 season, he got the benefit of some VERY hands-on mentoring from Alex Smith that contributed a lot to his growth while riding the bench that year. I guess what I'm saying is, what distinguishes him from the two teams I cited above is that I think there could be seasons where he takes a mediocre team over the top when most other QB's wouldn't be able to.
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Stads, does that mean you think roughly 95% of all NFL players are dicks? I see a lot of them doing that stuff on the field even after just making a tackle. Which seems kinda ridiculous, but by no means dick..ish.
Pretty much. I don't think the number is quite that high, but sure. Give me Drew Brees over OBJ every day of the week.
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To prove Chad and Hef's point, a few teammates are already talking Dynasty after winning one SB declaring they slayed the dragon, "The Patriots" and Mahomes is pumping the brakes on this big time.
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/kansas-city-chiefs-believe-they-are-starting-a-dynasty
This happens almost every time a team wins their first Super Bowl: many talk like it will be the first of many, and yet it almost never happens that way. In the last 20+ years, the Rams, Seahawks and Eagles were all going to win multiple titles, yet it was one and done (Philly could still win another, but it feels like they are not close). The Chiefs strike me as a team that will celebrate a lot and feel all good but themselves and be not nearly as hungry next year. Maybe I am wrong, but despite having a HoF QB and the best QB in the league, they feel like a "one championship and done" team, especially since Mahomes is gonna get the biggest contract ever either this offseason or next, and then it's good luck keeping all of that talent around him.
I don't think "one and done." But I don't think they will be frequent contenders either. They strike me as being more along the lines of Eli's Giants or Roethlisberger's Steelers, where they are in playoff contention most years, and maybe manage to get back to another SB when the stars align for them in a few years. But who knows? :dunno:
Trying not to be too much of a homer, I think the '9ers are in a bit better long-term position, simply because they are really good in almost every aspect of their game, and have a lot of relatively young talent at all phases as well. Yeah, their roster is going to take some hits in this offseason, and they lost a LOT of draft capitol with some of the moves they made this last season. But they are still in very good shape overall, I think.
EDIT: Going back to the Chiefs for a second, I guess I should modify my statement just a bit. I know it's early in Mahomes' career, and it's far too easy and shortsighted to come away from a SB win feeling like a young SB-MVP QB is going to be the next "greatest ever." But Mahomes clearly is different. We've gotten to see some consistent MVP-caliber play from him over the two full seasons he played. And even though he played in...was it only that week 17 game his rookie year?...in the 2017 season, he got the benefit of some VERY hands-on mentoring from Alex Smith that contributed a lot to his growth while riding the bench that year. I guess what I'm saying is, what distinguishes him from the two teams I cited above is that I think there could be seasons where he takes a mediocre team over the top when most other QB's wouldn't be able to.
Look, I'm not a hater here, because I clearly acknowledge the facts on the field. He's putting up numbers, and he's winning games. I'm not blind to nor ignoring his accomplishments. My biggest beef is the anointing.
If he DOES keep winning and putting up numbers, and more importantly, if he can do that without Hill and Watkins, I'll gladly change my tune. Gladly. I'm not sure how a floater to Watkins on third down that find him (Watkins) wide open with THREE 49ers around him and yet not within seven yards of him is "Mahomes' greatness". Let him (Mahomes) go through a couple seasons like Brady has, where his receivers are fresh off the practice squad or are on IR and let's see where he stands. That's all.
It's just that my experience has known easily 10 or more QBs that came into the league and were the next whatever, and didn't pan out. My experience has known easily 10 or more QBs that have put up monster numbers for a time, and when star WR goes off for his "payday", or star RB decides he's being "disrespected", they become mortal really quickly. The Rams are a great example here. As are the Panthers, as are the Falcons.
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If he DOES keep winning and putting up numbers, and more importantly, if he can do that without Hill and Watkins, I'll gladly change my tune. Gladly. I'm not sure how a floater to Watkins on third down that find him (Watkins) wide open with THREE 49ers around him and yet not within seven yards of him is "Mahomes' greatness". Let him (Mahomes) go through a couple seasons like Brady has, where his receivers are fresh off the practice squad or are on IR and let's see where he stands. That's all.
OK, but why are you zeroing in on that throw? That's completely irrelevant. That was a bad throw, and he got lucky completing it. But that's part of the game. Frankly, I would say he did NOT have a "great" game. That game, as a whole, is not really something I think he would want on the highlight reel had the 49ers outscored the Chiefs and won. But, again, that's irrelevant. Brady has had plenty of games that are plenty worse than that one, and made plenty of throws that were just as ill-advised but lucky, and he is the GOAT. Mahomes having a lackluster championship game performance does not take away from the stellar performances over these last two seasons.
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If he DOES keep winning and putting up numbers, and more importantly, if he can do that without Hill and Watkins, I'll gladly change my tune. Gladly. I'm not sure how a floater to Watkins on third down that find him (Watkins) wide open with THREE 49ers around him and yet not within seven yards of him is "Mahomes' greatness". Let him (Mahomes) go through a couple seasons like Brady has, where his receivers are fresh off the practice squad or are on IR and let's see where he stands. That's all.
OK, but why are you zeroing in on that throw? That's completely irrelevant. That was a bad throw, and he got lucky completing it. But that's part of the game. Frankly, I would say he did NOT have a "great" game. That game, as a whole, is not really something I think he would want on the highlight reel had the 49ers outscored the Chiefs and won. But, again, that's irrelevant. Brady has had plenty of games that are plenty worse than that one, and made plenty of throws that were just as ill-advised but lucky, and he is the GOAT. Mahomes having a lackluster championship game performance does not take away from the stellar performances over these last two seasons.
It's being used just an example (there are others, though). The point is independent of that particular throw. I'm not sure where the disagreement is, here; I've agreed that everything jelled for the Chiefs over the past two and a half seasons. It's worked according to Hoyle. I'm just saying that there are enough great QBs in the past who made it work even when things weren't going according to Hoyle, and that we should just hold off on some of the more hyperbolic praise until we can see what happens when it doesn't.
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Well, in that sentence, you weren't talking about "hyperbolic praise." You cherry-picked an example that was irrelevant to your point. To again quote:
I'm not sure how a floater to Watkins on third down that find him (Watkins) wide open with THREE 49ers around him and yet not within seven yards of him is "Mahomes' greatness".
I'm not sure how that throw is relevant to "Mahomes' greatness" one way or the other. But his "greatness" isn't hyperbole, so who cares? His overall performance over the past two seasons has been "great," by any standard you could use to rate a quarterback. That isn't hyperbole.
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I'd also like to know how many of these "next whatever"s ever had a 2-year stretch like Mahomes just did (much less in their first two years as a starter). I will also be curious to see how he does once his surrounding talent isn't all-world, but I suspect he will be fine (although his numbers won't be as crazy good). And even though he didn't have a great game overall Sunday, not sure what QB would have in that scenario. He was running for his life for the majority of the game (I lost track at how many times he had to break loose of the pocket almost immediately because the pass rush obliterated the Chiefs pass protection).
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It's being used just an example (there are others, though). The point is independent of that particular throw. I'm not sure where the disagreement is, here; I've agreed that everything jelled for the Chiefs over the past two and a half seasons. It's worked according to Hoyle. I'm just saying that there are enough great QBs in the past who made it work even when things weren't going according to Hoyle, and that we should just hold off on some of the more hyperbolic praise until we can see what happens when it doesn't.
Who (or what) the heck is "Hoyle"?
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It's being used just an example (there are others, though). The point is independent of that particular throw. I'm not sure where the disagreement is, here; I've agreed that everything jelled for the Chiefs over the past two and a half seasons. It's worked according to Hoyle. I'm just saying that there are enough great QBs in the past who made it work even when things weren't going according to Hoyle, and that we should just hold off on some of the more hyperbolic praise until we can see what happens when it doesn't.
Who (or what) the heck is "Hoyle"?
You never heard that before? It's a euphemism for "following the accepted rules", and a reference to Edmund Hoyle, who wrote the definitive book on rules for card games.
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I never heard of Hoyle either. ;D
However now that you mention it, I do recall that name on a deck of cards.
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I'd also like to know how many of these "next whatever"s ever had a 2-year stretch like Mahomes just did (much less in their first two years as a starter). I will also be curious to see how he does once his surrounding talent isn't all-world, but I suspect he will be fine (although his numbers won't be as crazy good). And even though he didn't have a great game overall Sunday, not sure what QB would have in that scenario. He was running for his life for the majority of the game (I lost track at how many times he had to break loose of the pocket almost immediately because the pass rush obliterated the Chiefs pass protection).
Matt Schaub, Trent Green, Matt Stafford, Philip Rivers, Carson Palmer, and Matt Ryan all had two consecutive years that were in the ballpark, more or less, than Mahomes. Maybe not in their first two years, grant you, but it's unassailable that Mahomes is not in Babe Ruth "60 home runs, more than every other TEAM in the league" territory. Hell, if you ignore interceptions, Jameis Winston is in the ballpark (and no, not even close am I comparing Patrick Mahomes with Jameis Winson; El Barto is a better QB than Jameis Winston).
Look, I get it. Most (all?) of you don't agree. I'm fine with that. I can sleep at night. I've made my point as I see it. If you don't agree, well, that's fine, that's the beauty of sports. No one is being impeached by this, no one is being denied healthcare by this, no one is being falsely imprisoned by this.
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No one will ever confuse those guys with Pat Mahones.
Stadler, I get that Mahomes doesn’t have 5 MVPs an 3 rings, but in your gut and with your eyes, do you have an opinion on what his career could look like??
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Thread title is wrong.
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No one will ever confuse those guys with Pat Mahones.
Stadler, I get that Mahomes doesn’t have 5 MVPs an 3 rings, but in your gut and with your eyes, do you have an opinion on what his career could look like??
Being honest? If I had to put money on it, it's going to ultimately look a lot like Brett Favre's. I think when Kelce gets beat up and retires, when Hill goes to jail/goes for his payday, and Reid finally retires, he's going to put up above average numbers, but the wild off balance, wrong foot throws are going to start falling incomplete or get intercepted. He's going to win a solid 10 games a year most years, but will not be able to sustain the momentum in the playoffs. He may get one more SB, ala a Peyton Manning.
He'll be afforded the appropriate awards and accolades, but will be one of those guys that will be more known for being "fun to watch" rather than the best of the best.
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No one will ever confuse those guys with Pat Mahones.
Stadler, I get that Mahomes doesn’t have 5 MVPs an 3 rings, but in your gut and with your eyes, do you have an opinion on what his career could look like??
Being honest? If I had to put money on it, it's going to ultimately look a lot like Brett Favre's. I think when Kelce gets beat up and retires, when Hill goes to jail/goes for his payday, and Reid finally retires, he's going to put up above average numbers, but the wild off balance, wrong foot throws are going to start falling incomplete or get intercepted. He's going to win a solid 10 games a year most years, but will not be able to sustain the momentum in the playoffs. He may get one more SB, ala a Peyton Manning.
He'll be afforded the appropriate awards and accolades, but will be one of those guys that will be more known for being "fun to watch" rather than the best of the best.
So Hall Of Famer? You hyping bro! :lol
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Notwithstanding that I still hate him, I disagree with Stadler and think it is likely that he will be a top 5 QB in the league most years of his career until age catches up with him.
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Notwithstanding that I still hate him, I disagree with Stadler and think it is likely that he will be a top 5 QB in the league most years of his career until age catches up with him.
You hate me? That makes me sad. :(
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Only if it was actually YOU that was the secret mastermind behind Mahomes stealing Alex Smith's job and the Chiefs beating the 49ers in the Super Bowl. Otherwise, we're good.
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You never heard that before? It's a euphemism for "following the accepted rules", and a reference to Edmund Hoyle, who wrote the definitive book on rules for card games.
Never have I ever. It's possible that, like TAC, I saw the name on a deck of cards, but I have no specific recollection of that.
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Yes, "according to Hoyle" is a fairly common phrase. Or at least it used to be.
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Yes, "according to Hoyle" is a fairly common phrase. Or at least it used to be.
I grew up with a mother born in 1923. My father was born in 1921, and before he died (in 1974), my parents regularly hosted card parties involving poker, bridge, gin rummy, and I assume a few other games. I grew up with lots of "old-timey" expressions, but "according to Hoyle" was definitely not one of them. I'd say, "maybe it's an east coast thing," except that my family lived on Long Island until the early 60s (before I was born)
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Yeah, never heard it either. I picked up on what Stadler meant because of context. But I've never heard that saying before seeing this thread. Maybe kind of a regional thing? :dunno:
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It's used in Pulp Fiction when Samuel L. Jackson is talking about not getting hit when the kid shoots at him.
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It's used in Pulp Fiction when Samuel L. Jackson is talking about not getting hit when the kid shoots at him.
Exactly. It wasn't an "according to Hoyle" miracle.
I am not aware of it being regional in any way.
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After reading through the last couple of pages, I realize now why you thought I was trolling you, Stads. :lol I hadn't read all of your previous comments and didn't know your dislike of Mahomes...I only vaguely remembered the "Reid needs to win the big one" comments from some time ago. That's what I get for not thoroughly reading all posts.
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Yeah, never heard it either. I picked up on what Stadler meant because of context. But I've never heard that saying before seeing this thread. Maybe kind of a regional thing? :dunno:
Um...not this region. :lol
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Yeah, same. The fact that it may have been used in some obscure movie does not make it somehow universal.
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Bosk, you keep bringing up Mahomes "stealing Alex Smith's job." May I ask why, and why that appears to be an issue with you?
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Didn't Kaepernick steal Alex Smith's job too?
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Alex Smith was a good QB, but while you could win a lot of games with him, and the 49ers and Chiefs both did just that, he was never really a guy where he was the main reason why you'd win (over the long haul). Plus, I think it's clear now that the Chiefs saw what they had in Mahomes pretty quickly and there was no keeping him off the field.
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I can't figure out what's a crazier stat:
a) That for seven straight seasons (1988-94) either the Bills or the 49ers made it to the Super Bowl but never in the same year so we never got to see that matchup.
b) That for 12 straight seasons (2006-07 through 2017-18) either Lebron James' or Kobe Bryant's team made it to the NBA Finals but never in the same season so we never got that matchup.
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Probably good for Bills fans, I can't imagine enduring 7 straight Super Bowl losses.
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That's the easy answer but it's obviously impossible to know for sure. In XXV they basically played the Giants identically to how the niners did in the NFC CG and technically even better since they lost that game via a FG that missed by 2 or 3 feet. In XXVIII they lost to the Cowboys by the same 17 point margin that the niners did in that season's NFC CG too. People just automatically move the 1990-93 niners ahead of those Bills teams without looking at the facts and it's probably for 3 reasons that are all shaky:
1. The niners had already won four SBs before then. It's a decent angle but it doesn't hold much water in the end since they ended up losing in the final minute by less than a FG to a Giant team QBed by their backup which is the same thing that happened to the Bills that season. Neither the niners nor the Bills look bad for that. It's just a testament to the Giants' stout defense, impeccable coaching, and very solid ground game.
2. The Bills would lose all four of their SB appearances. And three of the four teams they lost to also knocked the niners out in those seasons (1990 Giants, 1992 and 1993 Cowboys). The only year that the Bills lost the SB to a team that didn't knock the niners out was 1991 and that's because they missed the playoffs with Steve Bono starting 6 games for an injured Steve Young so that team probably wasn't beating the Bills anyway.
3. The niners would actually go on to win a SB right after the Bills' run ended. Can't take that away from them. They showed up and beat the hell out of the team they had to play. It just doesn't make a strong case for that specific win making them a sure-fire better team than the Bills of that era, though, since that Charger team is a strong candidate for worst Super Bowl team ever. They were also spared by getting to face a rookie Barry Switzer-led team too. If Jimmy Johnson had still been there, there's a damn good chance Dallas gets their 3-peat. It does, however, clearly make them better than the Bills team was that year since they only went 7-9.
With all of that covered, the last thing to do is look at their respective records against the teams that the Bills lost their four SBs to during those respective seasons (these records include both regular and postseason.)
1990 against the Giants:
Bills: 1-1
49ers: 1-1
1991 against the Redskins:
Bills: 0-1
49ers: 0-0
1992 against the Cowboys:
Bills: 0-1
49ers: 0-1
1993 against the Cowboys:
Bills: 1-1
49ers: 0-2
Totals:
Bills: 2-4
49ers: 1-4
I'm not making this post to try to prove that the Bills were better than the niners. I'm just doing it to prove that there probably isn't any empirical data to make the niners the supposed can't-miss homerun over the Bills that so many people like to say they would've been. That's why I focused on 1990-93 as well. The Walsh/Montana niners were a force of nature (Jerry Rice's stickum and numerous helpful ref calls didn't hurt either) so I'm not trying to say the late 80s Bills would've beaten them.
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After reading through the last couple of pages, I realize now why you thought I was trolling you, Stads. :lol I hadn't read all of your previous comments and didn't know your dislike of Mahomes...I only vaguely remembered the "Reid needs to win the big one" comments from some time ago. That's what I get for not thoroughly reading all posts.
I appreciate that very much; we're good. It's a football thread for gosh sakes, so I think you can take a pass on reading every word. Especially my iconoclast takes on Patrick Mahomes. :) :) :) :)
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Bosk, you keep bringing up Mahomes "stealing Alex Smith's job." May I ask why, and why that appears to be an issue with you?
Because I like Alex Smith. It's nothing complicated.
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I think it was pretty much widely acknowledged that the Cowboys and 49ers were by a wide distance the two best teams in the league from 1992-1994, but only one could make the Super Bowl since they were both from the NFC. Sorry, black_biff_stadler, but I don't think the Bills would have done any better had they faced the 49ers in their last two Super Bowls instead of Dallas. The Bills going 1-1 against the Cowboys in 1993, as opposed to SF's 0-2, probably doesn't mean a whole lot since their win over Dallas was in September when E. Smith was holding out.
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Yeah, same. The fact that it may have been used in some obscure movie does not make it somehow universal.
Of course not. But two things.
1) Pulp Fiction is not an obscure movie.
2) The fact that the phrase was written by Quentin Tarantino, who grew up in L.A., implies that it was not a regional phrase, as does the facts that both Stads and I know it, even though we definitely don't live in the same regions.
It was, at one time, a fairly well-known phrase. But that doesn't mean that it was so common that EVERYONE knew it (clearly).
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I think it was pretty much widely acknowledged that the Cowboys and 49ers were by a wide distance the two best teams in the league from 1992-1994, but only one could make the Super Bowl since they were both from the NFC. Sorry, black_biff_stadler, but I don't think the Bills would have done any better had they faced the 49ers in their last two Super Bowls instead of Dallas. The Bills going 1-1 against the Cowboys in 1993, as opposed to SF's 0-2, probably doesn't mean a whole lot since their win over Dallas was in September when E. Smith was holding out.
1. I'm discussing 1990-93, not 1992-94.
2. I already listed numerous facts to support my argument. You cherry picked one game to try to refute everything else.
3. The Bills won their only meeting with the niners during that 4 year period and it was in SF with a healthy Steve Young in a year they went 14-2.
4. From 1990-93 the Bills went 49-15 and the niners went 48-16.
As I said in my previous post, I'm not trying to say the Bills were better. I'm just laying to rest the ignorant notion that SF was supposed to automatically be better when there, as far as I can tell, isn't a single thing to validate that claim.
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I can't figure out what's a crazier stat:
a) That for seven straight seasons (1988-94) either the Bills or the 49ers made it to the Super Bowl but never in the same year so we never got to see that matchup.
b) That for 12 straight seasons (2006-07 through 2017-18) either Lebron James' or Kobe Bryant's team made it to the NBA Finals but never in the same season so we never got that matchup.
I don't think either of these things is particularly "crazy." The 49ers played in SB 23, 24 and 29, and the Bills played in SB 25-28. That's nothing more than a coincidence.
Same with the NBA thing. The Cavaliers weren't particularly good for most of James's first stint with them, and the Lakers were only good for that three-year period when they made the finals (2008-10), and they sucked by the time James started playing with Miami and started making the finals.
I'm just laying to rest the ignorant notion that SF was supposed to automatically be better
Was someone arguing that point? I don't think I've ever heard anyone who knows what he/she is talking about suggest that the 1990-93 Bills weren't a great team, and I've never heard anyone speculate about what might have happened had the Bills and 49ers met in a Super Bowl. Also, the Bills' run of four straight Super Bowl losses came during the NFC's run of 13 straight SB wins (and 15 out of 16). By the end of that run, there was wide public consensus that no team in the AFC was on par with the best teams in the NFC (and particularly the 49ers, Cowboys, Giants and Redskins). Whether that consensus was borne out by regular season records is largely beside the point.
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This Mahomes vs Brady discussion is from the twilight zone. First of all, why are Brady's fans so insecure about his status? Many (not TAC) feel personally threatened anytime another QB is hyped for legit reasons whether it's Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes, whatever. If you're so sure he's the goat, what's the problem?
Second point, comparing what Mahomes has accomplished through age 24 to what Brady has up to age 42. Huh? How is that in any way logical? Brady was Mahomes' age in his first SB. He threw for 154 yards against a D nowhere near as good as San Fran's. Yes he did drive them into field goal range at the end so he gets bonus points for that. BUT - years later with all the experience and at his peak, when he faced a pass rush as ferocious as the Niners in the Super Bowl (against the Giants in 07 and 11) he was dogshit both times, and that's with Moss for one of them. THAT'S an apples to apples comparison. By the way, I'm not knocking Brady here but defending Mahomes against some ludicrous reasoning.
Somehow Mahomes' detractors are assuming that he's not going to get any better with experience at reading defenses, etc? Please. The kid is humble and always working to try to get better. Oh noes, what if Kelce or Hill retire? Well then he's cooked I guess because there are never any skill players coming out of college. Lol.
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I can't figure out what's a crazier stat:
a) That for seven straight seasons (1988-94) either the Bills or the 49ers made it to the Super Bowl but never in the same year so we never got to see that matchup.
b) That for 12 straight seasons (2006-07 through 2017-18) either Lebron James' or Kobe Bryant's team made it to the NBA Finals but never in the same season so we never got that matchup.
I don't think either of these things is particularly "crazy." The 49ers played in SB 23, 24 and 29, and the Bills played in SB 25-28. That's nothing more than a coincidence.
Same with the NBA thing. The Cavaliers weren't particularly good for most of James's first stint with them, and the Lakers were only good for that three-year period when they made the finals (2008-10), and they sucked by the time James started playing with Miami and started making the finals.
It's crazy because with two teams making it to the SB that frequently, it's very weird that no two of their SB seasons coincided. It's even crazier since in four of those seven years (1988, 1990, 1992-93) it took one of those teams losing their conference championship game to prevent a SB meeting between them so it's not like they were just excelling at different times. They were basically on a crash course that was repeatedly barely avoided.
I'm just laying to rest the ignorant notion that SF was supposed to automatically be better
Was someone arguing that point? I don't think I've ever heard anyone who knows what he/she is talking about suggest that the 1990-93 Bills weren't a great team, and I've never heard anyone speculate about what might have happened had the Bills and 49ers met in a Super Bowl. Also, the Bills' run of four straight Super Bowl losses came during the NFC's run of 13 straight SB wins (and 15 out of 16). By the end of that run, there was wide public consensus that no team in the AFC was on par with the best teams in the NFC (and particularly the 49ers, Cowboys, Giants and Redskins). Whether that consensus was borne out by regular season records is largely beside the point.
I wasn't sure whether or not Cool Chris was saying that but it reminded me of how in the few dozen or so times I heard people mention how we never got a Bills/niners SB that there was a near consensus that the niners would've won. I don't remember the exact people that speculated on it cuz we're going back 25+ years but the sports media, across the board, was light years better than they are now so I'm fairly certain I heard at least a few media types of decent integrity jump on that bandwagon.
And I'll again raise the question: what specifically makes the niners of 1990-93 a slam dunk over the Bills?
I addressed almost every direct comparison of stats that apply equally or close to equally to both teams and I still haven't found anything that gives SF a significant edge.
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...it reminded me of how in the few dozen or so times I heard people mention how we never got a Bills/niners SB that there was a near consensus that the niners would've won.
But it's a pretty understandable mindset given that the '9ers of that era were 5-0 in the SB and the Bills were 0-4. Yes, it's lazy thinking and isn't really supported by much that means anything. But it's understandable.
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Yes and no. The niners had a sparkling SB record. But 80% of that happened with Montana, Craig, Lott, and Walsh. By 1991, none of them were there so we then had Young, Dexter Carter/Keith Henderson, Todd Bowles, and Seifert. The fifth win obviously wouldn't come until the year after the Bills finished their run and, like I said earlier, they were lucky enough to avoid a third straight NFC CG meeting with a full-strength, Jimmy Johnson-led Cowboy team and beat a very weak Charger team in SB XXIX. A win's a win so they're legit champions for that year, no doubt, but for that to be the only year they could ever break through (post-80s) despite having players like Young, Watters, Rice, Owens, etc., imo it makes it very difficult to try to call them legitimately better than a team that was losing to the same teams they were year in and year out.
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I'm not saying you aren't right. I'm just saying that such a knee jerk reaction is understandable, even if it is bad logic.
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It's crazy because with two teams making it to the SB that frequently, it's very weird that no two of their SB seasons coincided. It's even crazier since in four of those seven years (1988, 1990, 1992-93) it took one of those teams losing their conference championship game to prevent a SB meeting between them so it's not like they were just excelling at different times. They were basically on a crash course that was repeatedly barely avoided.
I think I'd use a different word than "crazy" (interesting or remarkable, perhaps).
The fact is that, during the period from 1998-94 (the seasons leading up to SB 23-29), there were multiple elite/dominant teams in each conference. In the AFC, you had all the "B" teams: Bills, Broncos, Bengals and Browns (although the Browns obviously never broke through to the Super Bowl, and I'm not including the Chargers because their 94 season and appearance in SB 29 were aberrative). The Bills won the AFC East in all but two of those seasons (they were a WC team in 92 and missed the playoffs altogether in 94), but they were never head and shoulders above the rest of the good teams in the AFC.
Likewise, in the NFC, you had the 49ers and the three NFC East teams who weren't the Eagles or Cardinals. None of those teams was head and shoulders above the others during this period (although may have been in a particular year). Only three other teams played in the NFC Championship Game during this time.
Thus, I look at it as nothing more than a coincidence that the Bills and 49ers never met in the SB.
I wasn't sure whether or not Cool Chris was saying that but it reminded me of how in the few dozen or so times I heard people mention how we never got a Bills/niners SB that there was a near consensus that the niners would've won. I don't remember the exact people that speculated on it cuz we're going back 25+ years but the sports media, across the board, was light years better than they are now so I'm fairly certain I heard at least a few media types of decent integrity jump on that bandwagon.
And I'll again raise the question: what specifically makes the niners of 1990-93 a slam dunk over the Bills?
Well...you have the fact that the Bills got to the SB four times and never won (with 3 of the 4 games being blowouts), together with the fact that 2 of the 49ers' 3 wins during this time were blowouts, together with the NFC's dominance in SB both before and after this period. It's obviously all speculation, though.
The niners had a sparkling SB record. But 80% of that happened with Montana, Craig, Lott, and Walsh. By 1991, none of them were there so we then had Young, Dexter Carter/Keith Henderson, Todd Bowles, and Seifert.
The 14-2 1992 team with Young, Watters, Rice, Taylor, and Jones was pretty damn good. They lost by 10 to a great Cowboys team (in a game that was tied at the half) that then beat the Bills by 35 points in SB 27.
Again, it's all speculation, but it's not without basis in fact.
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The niners had a sparkling SB record. But 80% of that happened with Montana, Craig, Lott, and Walsh. By 1991, none of them were there so we then had Young, Dexter Carter/Keith Henderson, Todd Bowles, and Seifert.
The 14-2 1992 team with Young, Watters, Rice, Taylor, and Jones was pretty damn good. They lost by 10 to a great Cowboys team (in a game that was tied at the half) that then beat the Bills by 35 points in SB 27.
Again, it's all speculation, but it's not without basis in fact.
That team literally lost at home to the Bills yet you're using a "team a lost to team c by fewer points than team b did" angle?
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I didn't mean to stir up a wasp's nest and black_biff, I didn't intend to undermine all your well-researched stats, I just wanted to poke a little fun at the Bills Mafia.
Looks like the league is headed toward a) a 17-game schedule, and b) another playoff team? Maybe a discussion for the 2020 thread.
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No worries, Chris :tup As for the 17-game schedule? FUCK DAT! There just isn't a need for it. It's bad enough that 1000-yard seasons are already an ambiguous enough indication of whether or not someone had a good season without reducing the per-game average necessary to get it from 62.5 to 58.8. As it stands, the 1000-yard mark really doesn't mean much in a vacuum so much as it matters when talking about how many times a WR/RB/TE reached that mark for their entire career.
Beyond all of that, the scheduling format is absolutely perfect right now since the number of teams in the league, each conference, and each division, as well as the number of games are all powers of two so everything divides perfectly and the entire league has a perfectly-balanced schedule that repeats on a 12-year cycle (or 24 if taking into account a balance of home and away games as well). The only thing that really has any volatility to it is the two floater games each team plays each season against the teams that finished in the same position as your team did in their respective divisions the previous season.
Lastly, players miss enough time due to injuries as it is so a 17th game will probably necessitate another 3-5 roster spots which only means watering down the NFL's talent level even further. It'll also take a big ol' shit on trying to compare stats to the 16-game era since 5000-yard seasons will start happening almost every year.
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This Mahomes vs Brady discussion is from the twilight zone. First of all, why are Brady's fans so insecure about his status? Many (not TAC) feel personally threatened anytime another QB is hyped for legit reasons whether it's Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes, whatever. If you're so sure he's the goat, what's the problem?
Second point, comparing what Mahomes has accomplished through age 24 to what Brady has up to age 42. Huh? How is that in any way logical? Brady was Mahomes' age in his first SB. He threw for 154 yards against a D nowhere near as good as San Fran's. Yes he did drive them into field goal range at the end so he gets bonus points for that. BUT - years later with all the experience and at his peak, when he faced a pass rush as ferocious as the Niners in the Super Bowl (against the Giants in 07 and 11) he was dogshit both times, and that's with Moss for one of them. THAT'S an apples to apples comparison. By the way, I'm not knocking Brady here but defending Mahomes against some ludicrous reasoning.
Somehow Mahomes' detractors are assuming that he's not going to get any better with experience at reading defenses, etc? Please. The kid is humble and always working to try to get better. Oh noes, what if Kelce or Hill retire? Well then he's cooked I guess because there are never any skill players coming out of college. Lol.
Honestly, the only QB I think who had about an equal "first two years as a starter" was Kurt Warner. I can't think of any other QB who, in his first two years as a starter, had won a regular season MVP, put up eye-popping numbers, won a Super Bowl, and was the MVP of that Super Bowl.
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Football's not over yet! The new XFL league starts today.
https://www.xfl.com/
There's a Mexican league too:
https://lfa.mx/
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This Mahomes vs Brady discussion is from the twilight zone. First of all, why are Brady's fans so insecure about his status? Many (not TAC) feel personally threatened anytime another QB is hyped for legit reasons whether it's Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes, whatever. If you're so sure he's the goat, what's the problem?
Since I'm the one not fellating Mahomes here (and not apologizing for it) where do you get all that other stuff? I LOVE Manning and Brees (probably like Brees more than Brady, at the end of the day, even if Brady is a slightly better QB) and really like Rodgers. You're the Brady-hater, that's pretty clear, but don't try to project that onto others. I've been clear what I don't like about Mahomes. It's my opinion. Everyone else here seems to like him. That's there opinion. Nothing AT ALL "twilight zone" about any of that.
Second point, comparing what Mahomes has accomplished through age 24 to what Brady has up to age 42. Huh? How is that in any way logical? Brady was Mahomes' age in his first SB. He threw for 154 yards against a D nowhere near as good as San Fran's. Yes he did drive them into field goal range at the end so he gets bonus points for that. BUT - years later with all the experience and at his peak, when he faced a pass rush as ferocious as the Niners in the Super Bowl (against the Giants in 07 and 11) he was dogshit both times, and that's with Moss for one of them. THAT'S an apples to apples comparison. By the way, I'm not knocking Brady here but defending Mahomes against some ludicrous reasoning.
Again; get the argument right before you try to attempt to suggest that it's wrong. Not "comparing" except to say that the accomplishments have more heft, more input to legacy, when they've been done repeatedly and over a span of time. What Mahomes has done is impressive, FOR WHAT IT IS, my objection is making it MORE than what it is. It's two good seasons. NOT a "Hall of Fame career", and not justifying what I see as hyperbolic celebration in particular by the media.
Oh, and from my perspective, you are VERY CLEARLY "knocking Brady".
Somehow Mahomes' detractors are assuming that he's not going to get any better with experience at reading defenses, etc? Please. The kid is humble and always working to try to get better. Oh noes, what if Kelce or Hill retire? Well then he's cooked I guess because there are never any skill players coming out of college. Lol.
As his primary detractor here, please don't tell me what I'm thinking, because that ain't it. He WILL - unless he pulls a Cam Newton - likely get better at reading defenses. But DEFENSES will get better at reading HIM, and more importantly, scheming against Hill, Watkins and Kelce, or any one they get "out of college" (especially someone they get "out of college".
You're actually doing exactly what my big beef is, and that is assuming that he's got the HoF career in the bag. He pulls a Theismann, or a Manning (Peyton) and all bets are off. I CERTAINLY do not wish that on him, but he's got to do it for more than two years to be considered among the all-time greats, or to get the benefit of the doubt that he will be one of the all-time greats.
What's the harm in letting the kid have his career, and taking it one step at a time? Why do we have to bestow all the honorifics right out of the gate? I'm reading a book now about Lou Gehrig - arguably one of the five best players in the HISTORY of the game, maybe THE greatest that wasn't also a Yankee - and didn't get his due - his REAL due - until ten years into his career, and even then, he was always a sideman to Babe Ruth, then a sideman to DiMaggio (who was a ROOKIE at the time he and Gehrig played together regularly and meaningfully).
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Here’s how I see Mahomes. He’s one of the top five QB’s in the league right now but it is absolutely way too early to crown him as one of the all time greats and a sure fire Hall of Famer. What he’s doing right now is incredible, but only time will tell if it’s sustainable. Let’s just enjoy how he’s playing now and not worry about how he’ll potentially play down the road.
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Here’s how I see Mahomes. He’s one of the top five QB’s in the league right now but it is absolutely way too early to crown him as one of the all time greats and a sure fire Hall of Famer. What he’s doing right now is incredible, but only time will tell if it’s sustainable. Let’s just enjoy how he’s playing now and not worry about how he’ll potentially play down the road.
This covers my position regarding Mahomes almost exactly (leaving out only that I do not like the on-field histrionics, which I get is my thing and not shared by others).
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....on-field histrionics?
I'll take things a hater would say for $1000, Alex.
Mahomes behavior is by definition, not histrionics, unless one can prove somehow get in his head and show his actions are a "dramatic representation, theatrical, or acting"....or that his "behavior or speech is for effect, as insincere or exaggerated expression of an emotion"
First we can't know this is true, as we can't get in his head. Second, his behavior is well within the parameters of accepted normal behavior for an NFL player, and basically everyone else has judged his behavior as genuine. He behavior is just not histrionics.
A Hater is a person that simply cannot be happy for another person's success. So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person. In this case an inaccurate perceived flaw, with no real proof or support. And to call him a "Dick"?
One can say that their position that Mahomes actions on field are histrionics, and that he is a "Dick", and I guess that is their opinion, and they have a right to their opinion. But that still makes them a Hater.
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Same individual excuses or apologies over a thousand actions of one individual, but can't overlook a young kid trying to fire up his team.
Cie la vie.
As to the Super Bowl, since I've been too busy to write: 49ers fell into the same trap that the Ravens did against the Titans: no motion, no jet sweeps, no play action, and then expected their QB to simply pass and move the ball.
Mahomes on the 3rd and 15: he did it numerous times against the Ravens the past two years, against the Lions on 4th and 10, against......x, y, and z. The play and pass were semi putrid considering the pass rush, and yet that kid did it yet again. Wash/rinse/repeat.....never take anything for granted against him and KC.
btw...kudos to Andy Reid and the Chefs, and all their fans in the state of Kansas. ;)
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Here’s how I see Mahomes. He’s one of the top five QB’s in the league right now but it is absolutely way too early to crown him as one of the all time greats and a sure fire Hall of Famer. What he’s doing right now is incredible, but only time will tell if it’s sustainable. Let’s just enjoy how he’s playing now and not worry about how he’ll potentially play down the road.
This covers my position regarding Mahomes almost exactly (leaving out only that I do not like the on-field histrionics, which I get is my thing and not shared by others).
Stads, you know I love you, but the reason you're getting called out on this is because you literally singled him out...and what you singled him out FOR is actually on the "subdued" end of the scale for what is common among 90% (or more) of every WR, RB, QB, TE, DB, LB, and DL in the entire NFL. If you think Mahomes is a "dick" for his on the field antics, you pretty much have to call out the entire league en masse. It just doesn't seem fair to single him out. He is completely tame compared to nearly all his peers.
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Look, Jammin, I'm not feeling "called out". Most of the criticisms, especially the more blunt ones, frankly grossly misunderstand my position and so I ignore them as noise. I don't expect people to agree, and don't really care. It's what I value in the players I like; I shared it as an alternative point of view; those that criticize are really just showing their own issues, not mine.
I'm more than willing to call out the entire league en masse; I didn't particularly like it when Gronk did it either. Probably the only guy that it DIDN'T bug me was because he was arguably the greatest defensive player of all time: Lawrence Taylor. The real stickler, though, is that in combination with the annointing. That's NOT every player in the league, it's really just two: Mahomes and Jackson. And Jackson got beat when it counted (as I called a few pages back). I just don't see the need to make these guys into all time greats after two seasons (Mahomes) and basically a season (Jackson). They don't have to put up Brady years, but certainly more than a college graduating class. Shoot, I was on ACADEMIC PROBATION longer* than Mahomes has been playing in the league, yet I turned it around and got a degree; things can and do change quickly. I'm not wishing bad things on Mahomes; I'm just asking him to put in the time.
I'm reading Richard Ben Cramer's award-winning bio on the Yankee Clipper, Joe DiMaggio, having just finished a good one on Lou Gehrig. I thought Lou was my favorite player of all time (he still may be) but the Jolter is pretty close. If he wasn't such a petty human being he'd be nicer to like, but in terms of his playing, there's no one who was more focused on the game than him. His biggest histrionics? In his entire CAREER? Kicking the dirt in frustration out at second base when Al Gionfriddo robbed him of that home run in Game 6 of the '47 Series. https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/news-footage/2028-77
* That's not actually true, but I thought it was funny.
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Who on this forum is already calling Mahomes an all-time great?
And if, like you said, the real stickler is the supposed anointing, then you are basically "hating" on Mahomes because of something he has no control over.
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Who on this forum is already calling Mahomes an all-time great?
And if, like you said, the real stickler is the supposed anointing, then you are basically "hating" on Mahomes because of something he has no control over.
Whatever. Maybe. Sure. No. I'm not sure what some of you want. "Oh, my, that young Patrick is so wonderful!" It is what it is. I'd just rather watch other players. Don't lose sleep over it; Trump is still President, Roger Hodgson still put on a good show last night (great show actually) and Patrick has a Lombardi. The world goes on.
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Too funny. You call this kid a Dick, who by all accounts is a good person and worked hard for his success, just because OTHER people praise him??.....and defend against people calling Trump a Dick, who actually acts like a Dick. :lol
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@Stadler, Eh, I am simply curious as to if anyone here has actually called Mahomes an all-time great already, or if that is a strawman you have created.
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@Stadler, Eh, I am simply curious as to if anyone here has actually called Mahomes an all-time great already, or if that is a strawman you have created.
Of course; didn't you watch any of his games? Jim Nance was ready to have his children. There were games where the announcers were talking about his impact on the game.... while the OTHER TEAM HAD THE BALL. Again, look, I'm copping to it being my opinion. Not sure what else I'm supposed to do. Some of you are paying WAYYYYYYYYYYY too much attention to this. It's one person's opinion on one football player. Inconsequential.
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Lots of fans and media are professing That. Not what I read here.
We all know he has the tools to do so. Can he win multiple SB's?
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Lots of fans and media are professing That. Not what I read here.
We all know he has the tools to do so. Can he win multiple SB's?
Maybe; we'll see. I won't bet against him. Then again, I think there's only about six teams that have a legit shot of winning a SB right now (that's not a backhanded criticism of Mahomes, by the way; it's just an observation).
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Okay, but it feels like Mahomes is already being put in an unfair box by some. I have already seen the "let me know when Mahomes wins six Super Bowls" comment online in more than one place, which is an unfair standard. What he has done so far in two years as a starter is unreal, yet it's not enough for some people. It's crazy. Yes, there have been plenty of quarterbacks who have had great short runs and fizzled out, but NONE of those guys have ever had a 2-year stretch like Mahomes just had. Unless he gets derailed by an injury, I don't see any way he isn't a top QB in the NFL for a long time.
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Okay, but it feels like Mahomes is already being put in an unfair box by some. I have already seen the "let me know when Mahomes wins six Super Bowls" comment online in more than one place, which is an unfair standard. What he has done so far in two years as a starter is unreal, yet it's not enough for some people. It's crazy. Yes, there have been plenty of quarterbacks who have had great short runs and fizzled out, but NONE of those guys have ever had a 2-year stretch like Mahomes just had. Unless he gets derailed by an injury, I don't see any way he isn't a top QB in the NFL for a long time.
And - and I mean this sincerely, not to be sarcastic - when he does, I'll be the first to celebrate him. I hope he does. I just think he's got to do it for a sustained period.
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Okay, but it feels like Mahomes is already being put in an unfair box by some. I have already seen the "let me know when Mahomes wins six Super Bowls" comment online in more than one place, which is an unfair standard. What he has done so far in two years as a starter is unreal, yet it's not enough for some people. It's crazy. Yes, there have been plenty of quarterbacks who have had great short runs and fizzled out, but NONE of those guys have ever had a 2-year stretch like Mahomes just had. Unless he gets derailed by an injury, I don't see any way he isn't a top QB in the NFL for a long time.
I agree. What he's done in his 1st 2 years starting has been amazing. I do look that the team is stacked. How does the GM keep this rolling.
It's not on the QB in my eyes.
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Then - even if you disagree (which is fine) - you at least understand where I'm coming from. Let's see him come from behind in all four playoff games without having Watkins and Hill to outrun the secondary (and the local police), or Kelce to Gronk his way into the end zone... This is not to say that he can't do it, but let's just see if he can adjust his game, as the truly greats through history have typically done. Peyton found a way to win without Harrison/Wayne/James, and he's one of the greats. We can judge him from there.
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I get he has a lot to be put in that category but he is off to a great start.
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Let's see him come from behind in all four playoff games without having Watkins and Hill to outrun the secondary (and the local police), or Kelce to Gronk his way into the end zone...
And now Stads is seemingly trying to find a way to cheapen three consecutive double-digit postseason comebacks while, oddly enough, giving PM credit for a fourth comeback that didn't happen. I am going to get my popcorn.
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Let's see him come from behind in all four playoff games without having Watkins and Hill to outrun the secondary (and the local police), or Kelce to Gronk his way into the end zone...
And now Stads is seemingly trying to find a way to cheapen three consecutive double-digit postseason comebacks while, oddly enough, giving PM credit for a fourth comeback that didn't happen. I am going to get my popcorn.
That's exactly it. You're in my head, you know what I'm thinking.
I'm done. I said my piece: good player, don't like the histrionics, want to see if he can sustain it before I annoint him god. Simple as that. Everything else is on you.
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We probably should use the new thread now.
EDIT: I just moved today's discussion on the new playoff format to the new thread as well, so carry on there.