Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo

[The Walrus]

Well, time will certainly tell if the four of you that have such a moral quandary with this (and who have bailed on the project) will be outnumbered by the people that are brought to the project by this constant back and forth, but who will give the music a fair shake.

I didn't say I wasn't going to listen to it. I said I'm not going to pay for it.

[Miyazaki74]

Whether he's joking, serious, or something else entirely, people have a right to be put off by it, to feel that it is childish, or whatever.  As others have said, Derek and Mike would probably be wise to realize that they have a relatively small "built-in" fan base, and that their comments are alienating some of that fan base.  But ultimately, it's their decision to make how to manage their careers.  We the fans just get to decide whether we are buying what they are selling.

I agree with all of this. Not trying tell people how to feel,  I just find it weird that they feel that way. Or maybe...... I'm the weird one 

[El Barto]

Let's see. For one thing, I've always preferred Sherinian to Rudess, largely for the reasons he tweeted. Yet tweeting them strikes me as a dick move. Just because you're right doesn't mean you should actually make a point to tell people.

His tweets seem to have taken a page from the Roger Waters playbook. In his recent tour Roger had nothing whatsoever to say about Trump, yet his show was widely regarded as nonstop Trump-bashing. What he did was provide idiotic quotes and some footage of recent events and let people fill in the blanks on their own. If you see footage of people getting blown up by drones and associate it with Trump, then he was successful. Sherinian tweets no more whiny, breath vocals and the first thing people do is claim he's bashing JLB. Well done, dude. That's how you troll.

On the bright side, given his preference for echo-chambers, Portnoy's probably real close to locking his own band's thread on his own forum. 

[Stadler]

But 'no cheese' comments about DT from the lord of lava lamps? Nah...

But - just asking - why then do you assume he's being a truthful hypocrite, instead of cheekily funny?   It may not be YOUR humor (it really isn't mine, though I get it, and it's similar to the type of humor my college friends and I engage in) but it's still just as likely to be humor as the alternative.

Because he's promoting Sons of Apollo while taking digs at other people. It doesn't matter if it's DT or The Nuge, that's not an effective method of good marketing, simply put. We're having a conversation about this. That should say quite a bit right there about how appropriate (or not) it is.

EXACTLY.  Derek doesn't tweet that, and we likely aren't talking about SOA, period. I'd say pretty effective.

Bosk is, of course, correct:  whether someone is offended or put off or whatever is up to them.  But part of it is this need to always look at things through YOUR lenses.   What Derek intends is not always what I would intend.   Different people do things different ways.   Gene Simmons is a great example; for all that is said (bad) about him, and all the times he's put his foot in his mouth, he's still worth hundreds of millions of dollars, still sells out arenas without an album, and is in the RnRHoF.   And how many of those incidents do we remember? 

It's just incredibly childish. I mean, he's in his 50s, for goodness' sake! He should be past that now.

It's childish if he means it the way you think he means it. 

[bosk1]

Well, no.  Childish is childish.  Intent doesn't really matter. 

[SwedishGoose]

Well, no.  Childish is childish.  Intent doesn't really matter.

Indeed....

[Dave_Manchester]

On the bright side, given his preference for echo-chambers, Portnoy's probably real close to locking his own band's thread on his own forum. 

Nah, they'll hand out bans first. "Guys, from now on anybody hyper-sensitively over-reacting to comments posted on the internet will be permabanned from the Forum"

That was actually part of the wider irony I didn't get into in my posts over there (didn't want to hurry along the inevitable mod warnings). Remember the Labrie tour thread that got deleted, due to a rash, out-of-context and therefore totally misunderstood reading of an online comment James had made? Yet apparently everyone should now chill and not pay attention to things you read online unless you have omniscient awareness of how, when and why it was written.

[Stadler]

Well, no.  Childish is childish.  Intent doesn't really matter.

I'm not sure I agree with that. 

[El Barto]

On the bright side, given his preference for echo-chambers, Portnoy's probably real close to locking his own band's thread on his own forum. 

Nah, they'll hand out bans first. "Guys, from now on anybody hyper-sensitively over-reacting to comments posted on the internet will be permabanned from the Forum"

That was actually part of the wider irony I didn't get into in my posts over there (didn't want to hurry along the inevitable mod warnings). Remember the Labrie tour thread that got deleted, due to a rash, out-of-context and therefore totally misunderstood reading of an online comment James had made? Yet apparently everyone should now chill and not pay attention to things you read online unless you have omniscient awareness of how, when and why it was written.

Now, for the first time ever, I'm sorry Wey's not still running that place. He'd have banned two thirds of the members by now, leaving MP's 8 biggest fans and two guys who've been on vacation. 

The irony is thick, though.

[The Walrus]

Gene Simmons is a great example; for all that is said (bad) about him, and all the times he's put his foot in his mouth, he's still worth hundreds of millions of dollars, still sells out arenas without an album, and is in the RnRHoF.   And how many of those incidents do we remember? 

Well, I remember quite a few because I don't listen to his music, and there are always articles of him putting his foot in his mouth on Ultimate-Guitar, so there's that. I remember one from just last week where he said guitarists aren't artists, and how he's still rambling on about the devil horns' trademark. I remember an incident with Sebastian Bach (from Bach's mouth) in which Gene wouldn't sell Bach one of like 30 cell phone covers on Gene's kitchen counter because they weren't on the market yet even though Bach himself offered like 4 times their value or something and Gene got upset by it. He could be worth millions, but that doesn't make him likable. Or successful, depending on your definition and metrics of success.

I really just wish Derek would show us some of his playing on the record. For the umpteenth time: promote your material by showing us what you've created, after all, we're here for art, not silly infantile banter.

[Madman Shepherd]

On the bright side, given his preference for echo-chambers, Portnoy's probably real close to locking his own band's thread on his own forum. 

Nah, they'll hand out bans first. "Guys, from now on anybody hyper-sensitively over-reacting to comments posted on the internet will be permabanned from the Forum"

That was actually part of the wider irony I didn't get into in my posts over there (didn't want to hurry along the inevitable mod warnings). Remember the Labrie tour thread that got deleted, due to a rash, out-of-context and therefore totally misunderstood reading of an online comment James had made? Yet apparently everyone should now chill and not pay attention to things you read online unless you have omniscient awareness of how, when and why it was written.

That Portnoy read on Blabbermouth of all places. His apology was good though. I think it was "I apologize to James for believing the out of context headline." I'm surprised James didn't call him up that moment and say "Mike, all is forgiven! We want you back in the band!" 

[KevShmev]

But 'no cheese' comments about DT from the lord of lava lamps? Nah...

But - just asking - why then do you assume he's being a truthful hypocrite, instead of cheekily funny?   It may not be YOUR humor (it really isn't mine, though I get it, and it's similar to the type of humor my college friends and I engage in) but it's still just as likely to be humor as the alternative.

Using this logic, regarding these supposed (FAKE) rips on Portnoy by LaBrie (that you never posted links for...BIG SHOCK), we could just say that they were James being funny, and if you didn't get it, that is your fault for not understanding his sense of humor. See how that works?

As for the DS tweets, getting offended by them seems rather silly, but I can see them being very oft-putting, and I can see some not wanting to support them financially now (see: downloading the record instead of buying it).

[PetFish]

Well people can feel what they like, but I find it amusing that so many get there feelings hurt over what one band member says about another band member of a different band. It seems like a few here now are not going to buy the SOA album because of it? I mean really? Only because Derek and Mike have taken shots at DT? I mean it should be about the music. If you're not going to buy the cd at least don't buy it for a good reason, like the music totally sucks! I would be fine with that. I mean I am a huge Metallica fan, but I'm also a fan of Slayer and Megadeth and both of those bands have talked major shit about Metallica. It never made me stop being a fan of either band. If anything I think the shit talking is hilarious. I'm a fan of the music. I could careless about the artists. As long as they put out music I enjoy that is all I care about. Just my 2 pennies, whatever.

The music/movie/book could be the greatest thing in the history of time but if the artists who made them abuse animals or pollute the planet I'm not supporting them.  Just like people might not buy clothes produced using child labor, who cares as long as the clothes are great, right?  Please.

I stopped supporting MP a long time ago cuz of his totally shit attitude and what sucks is that I want to support the other people he's with but, by association, I don't, so it hurts the people around him as well.

Also, what kind of a person is MP anyway to say so many shitty things to people he was basically family with for most of his life?  As soon as they didn't give in to his demands he turned on them and just will not STFU about it.

[Ben_Jamin]

That last DS tweet makes me really believe they are watching what goes on in this thread, and DTF.

And trolling the fuck out of it.

Why else would they make those tweets, especially after that post about DTF?

Glad I don't have Twitter so all I know is what you guys post. I don't care either.

[SystematicThought]

And now Billy is getting in on it. I had to laugh at his  It's true

[axeman90210]

And now Billy is getting in on it. I had to laugh at his  It's true

What did Billy say?

[SystematicThought]

And now Billy is getting in on it. I had to laugh at his  It's true

What did Billy say?

Feeling dumb, but I read that on MP's forum and forgot to check to see if it was real. It was a joke post, but the problem was felt like it was a real tweet. Something like you can actually hear the bass on our album or something along those lines. I had a good laugh now, but felt dumb.

[The Silent Cody]

You don't need Twitter, if You are DTF member  Serious, Twitter isn't so popular here in Poland, of course it's available in it's fullness, but from what did I know and what I see, Polish people prefer FB than Twitter. And it's good according to what's going on it... I really don't care. If the music will be satisfying, it's all that matters.

[Herrick]

Jeff Scott Soto hitting some high notes...........

https://youtu.be/1fv081csf0g?t=476

He sounds awesome.

[Stadler]

Well people can feel what they like, but I find it amusing that so many get there feelings hurt over what one band member says about another band member of a different band. It seems like a few here now are not going to buy the SOA album because of it? I mean really? Only because Derek and Mike have taken shots at DT? I mean it should be about the music. If you're not going to buy the cd at least don't buy it for a good reason, like the music totally sucks! I would be fine with that. I mean I am a huge Metallica fan, but I'm also a fan of Slayer and Megadeth and both of those bands have talked major shit about Metallica. It never made me stop being a fan of either band. If anything I think the shit talking is hilarious. I'm a fan of the music. I could careless about the artists. As long as they put out music I enjoy that is all I care about. Just my 2 pennies, whatever.

The music/movie/book could be the greatest thing in the history of time but if the artists who made them abuse animals or pollute the planet I'm not supporting them.  Just like people might not buy clothes produced using child labor, who cares as long as the clothes are great, right?  Please.

I stopped supporting MP a long time ago cuz of his totally shit attitude and what sucks is that I want to support the other people he's with but, by association, I don't, so it hurts the people around him as well.

Also, what kind of a person is MP anyway to say so many shitty things to people he was basically family with for most of his life?  As soon as they didn't give in to his demands he turned on them and just will not STFU about it.

But your "shitty attitude" is another man's sense of humor, or grit, or perseverance.   I think for me the real head-scratcher is as it always is:  there doesn't seem to be any room for alternate interpretations.   The mantra is (or was) "take things on their face, with no need for context or 'other information' (as several people close to Mike have repeatedly said there is more to the DT story than has been revealed in public)".   Fair enough, you get to decide what facts you incorporate and which you don't. But increasingly, it's not about "taking things on their face", it's "take things as I interpret them".  I can do that for myself, thanks.

As for your last sentence, well, again, that's your interpretation, but since you weren't in the room, you have to accept that it is but one interpretation and likely not the correct one. 

[mikeyd23]

But 'no cheese' comments about DT from the lord of lava lamps? Nah...

But - just asking - why then do you assume he's being a truthful hypocrite, instead of cheekily funny?   It may not be YOUR humor (it really isn't mine, though I get it, and it's similar to the type of humor my college friends and I engage in) but it's still just as likely to be humor as the alternative.

Using this logic, regarding these supposed (FAKE) rips on Portnoy by LaBrie (that you never posted links for...BIG SHOCK), we could just say that they were James being funny, and if you didn't get it, that is your fault for not understanding his sense of humor. See how that works?

As for the DS tweets, getting offended by them seems rather silly, but I can see them being very oft-putting, and I can see some not wanting to support them financially now (see: downloading the record instead of buying it).

BINGO. Honestly I agree, totally. I'm not offended by his comments, but this record has gone from an automatic buy to a "I'll probably just listen to it on Spotify" album because his comments have simply turned me off to the band.

[Miyazaki74]

Well people can feel what they like, but I find it amusing that so many get there feelings hurt over what one band member says about another band member of a different band. It seems like a few here now are not going to buy the SOA album because of it? I mean really? Only because Derek and Mike have taken shots at DT? I mean it should be about the music. If you're not going to buy the cd at least don't buy it for a good reason, like the music totally sucks! I would be fine with that. I mean I am a huge Metallica fan, but I'm also a fan of Slayer and Megadeth and both of those bands have talked major shit about Metallica. It never made me stop being a fan of either band. If anything I think the shit talking is hilarious. I'm a fan of the music. I could careless about the artists. As long as they put out music I enjoy that is all I care about. Just my 2 pennies, whatever.

The music/movie/book could be the greatest thing in the history of time but if the artists who made them abuse animals or pollute the planet I'm not supporting them.  Just like people might not buy clothes produced using child labor, who cares as long as the clothes are great, right?  Please.

Lets not compare animal cruelty or child labor to smack talk. It's not that serious. In sports athletes talk shit to each other all the time. It's not a crime.

[Stadler]

Using this logic, regarding these supposed (FAKE) rips on Portnoy by LaBrie (that you never posted links for...BIG SHOCK), we could just say that they were James being funny, and if you didn't get it, that is your fault for not understanding his sense of humor. See how that works?

Don't play that.  You know full well this has been discussed here before, and they WERE posted, some by me, some by others, and there was a fair disagreement over them. I post enough here that I don't have to repeat others' posts to gain some faux credibility with you.   I acknowledged then that there could be different alternative explanations, and that was the very point.   I'm not at all saying that MY opinions matter any more than anyone else, that I know what James was thinking (or not), or that I get to play under different rules.   I'm saying that NONE OF US has the information necessary to draw the conclusions that some of us are drawing (not me, as I am saying, for the most part, that we don't know).    I was pointing out how some here decide that BECAUSE it's Mike talking (and now Derek) it's interpreted in the worst possible light out of the gate, and if it's a member of DT, BECAUSE it's DT talking it's interpreted in the best possible light out of the gate.    There's nothing to "see" about "how that works", thank you.   

[AngelBack]

Much ado about not much to me.  SOA acting like a kid tugging on his mom's apron...mom..mom..mom.

BUT it could be fun.  I wish JP would tweet a pic of himself doing a double biceps pose with #sonsofzeus.

[cramx3]

Much ado about not much to me.  SOA acting like a kid tugging on his mom's apron...mom..mom..mom.

BUT it could be fun.  I wish JP would tweet a pic of himself doing a double biceps pose with #sonsofzeus.

 

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

Jeff Scott Soto hitting some high notes...........

https://youtu.be/1fv081csf0g?t=476

He sounds awesome.

He sounds like a generic metal singer. Can't stand his voice.

[bosk1]

generic metal singer

  What does that even mean? 

[SwedishGoose]

Jeff Scott Soto hitting some high notes...........

https://youtu.be/1fv081csf0g?t=476

He sounds awesome.

He sounds like a generic metal singer. Can't stand his voice.

I think he sounds like an AOR singer more than a metal singer....

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

generic metal singer

  What does that even mean?

Sorry, I just meant the tone of his voice sounds very generic. I feel like I've heard it a million times. I find nothing unique about it. Just your typical "I'm gonna sing with grit". I mean, people bash Labrie all day long, but at the end of the day no one else sounds like him, so when you hear him you KNOW it's DT. But this guy is pretty much forgettable to me. Just the way I feel about it. Not sure if anyone else agrees or not, but I don't really care either way. 

[cramx3]

generic metal singer

  What does that even mean?

Sorry, I just meant the tone of his voice sounds very generic. I feel like I've heard it a million times. I find nothing unique about it. Just your typical "I'm gonna sing with grit". I mean, people bash Labrie all day long, but at the end of the day no one else sounds like him, so when you hear him you KNOW it's DT. But this guy is pretty much forgettable to me. Just the way I feel about it. Not sure if anyone else agrees or not, but I don't really care either way. 

Maybe that's what Prog actually needs.  I find what turns me off from many prog bands is the vocals, usually because they are more distinct.  But a more "generic" approach, to something that won't turn so many people off may be a good idea. 

[Stadler]

LaBrie's voice was one of the catalysts for me being as big a DT fan as I was.  I do not like WDADU, and always thought it was LaBrie as much as anything that gave DT it's unique sound and set them apart. 

[SystematicThought]

LaBrie's voice was one of the catalysts for me being as big a DT fan as I was.  I do not like WDADU, and always thought it was LaBrie as much as anything that gave DT it's unique sound and set them apart.

That's not the first time I've heard that and I do wonder if DT would have had a different career with a different singer. I've always been partial to Chris Cintron, but LaBrie in his prime and even today has a unique voice.

[cramx3]

I also love Labrie's unique voice, but for me, that's an exception, not the norm.  I've also known a few people who were turned off from DT just by the vocals alone.

[mikeyd23]

generic metal singer

  What does that even mean?

Sorry, I just meant the tone of his voice sounds very generic. I feel like I've heard it a million times. I find nothing unique about it. Just your typical "I'm gonna sing with grit". I mean, people bash Labrie all day long, but at the end of the day no one else sounds like him, so when you hear him you KNOW it's DT. But this guy is pretty much forgettable to me. Just the way I feel about it. Not sure if anyone else agrees or not, but I don't really care either way. 

I'll back this. What you described above are basically the reasons I'm not a big Soto fan. He's clearly a good singer, but his material has typically been pretty forgettable for me personally.

[Lowdz]

JSS has much more 'soul' in his voice than your run of the mill generic metal singer. It sounds different, and that's a good thing to me. Also, he's been around forever, since before power/prog metal was a thing.
The thing missing from most prog metal for me is the songs. It's the reason I love DT - there are real songs in all the musical wanking. I'm hoping Jeff brings melody to the table in SoA.