NFL thread 2014 v. Frankford Yellow Jackets Lay the Pipe on the Dayton Triangles

[hefdaddy42]

Again, it's only sports fans. No one thinks their support of a band or a movie allows them to consider themselves part of the organization that made said product

Yes, that's right.

Not sure what the problem is.  Sports fandom (in America, anyway) has always been like this.

[jingle.boy]

In a competition, it's one side vs the other.  It's not like that way in movies or music.  So, in a competition, it's natural camaraderie to refer to the collective "us", even if it's just in support and not actual participation.

Strangest pet peeve ever.

[Dark Castle]

In a competition, it's one side vs the other.  It's not like that way in movies or music.  So, in a competition, it's natural camaraderie to refer to the collective "us", even if it's just in support and not actual participation.

Strangest pet peeve ever.

Ding ding
Spot on

[black_biff_stadler]

Kotowboy hacked Jaq's account.

[hefdaddy42]

Kotowboy hacked Jaq's account.

lol

[Jaq]

I personally don't find cheering for a team means I get to be part of the actual organization. The vast amount of sports fans I know don't either, it's just people who are seriously devoted to a team that do it.

The "we" people are actually the oddity, you just don't realize it because you're too attached. I used to be a fanatical sports fan who lived and died by what the teams I liked did and didn't do. And I realized one day that my rending my clothes and pulling out my hair when the Cowboys lost or the high fives I gave friends at bars watching games didn't change a fucking thing about the results on the field. That's why I'm not part of "we." Because I'm not playing the game.

[Dark Castle]

But you're cheering the team on, whether from your living room or there at the stadium. I mean come on the Seahawks have the "12th man" I think that says it all in how much teams consider their fans part of the game.

[hefdaddy42]

Exactly.

And that may be more the norm in your community, but around here, the "we" is definitely the norm.  I find it is also more prevalent among people who actually attend games (or wish they could afford to do so) rather than just people who watch on TV.

Avoid it if you want, no worries, but I see no reason to react negatively to fans who do that.

[Skeever]

Fans definitely have a right to say "we". In fact, I would say fans are more a part of the team than even the players themselves. This gets down to the fundamental question of what really makes an organization.

Think of it this way: Do you stop being a fan because players change? Coaches? Front office? Do you stop being a fan if the current owner sells the team? Go look at your favorite team now, and then go and wikipedia the page of the team three seasons ago. Most likely, there are more new faces on the team than players and coaches you rooted for just a few years ago.

I would argue that FANS are the only real constant in sports. Everything else is a revolving door. That's why, if you're a true fan, you don't quit being a fan a find a new team to root for just because you don't like the current QB, or GM, or owner. That's why a true fan will stick with a team through good and bad, as players, coaches, front office personnel, and owners come and go. So, yes, fans ARE entitled to say "WE" and, in fact, fans may be the ONLY people entitled to say "WE" for the longhaul. Every other facet of a team is essentially a hired gun, supposed to be working toward bringing fans a successful franchise.

[KevShmev]

I didn't even realize I said "we" until it was pointed out.  I rarely do it, but I guess in this instance, it just felt right.

My beef is with the sports fans who bust out "we" when their team wins, but go with "they" when they lose.  It's like they are claiming more ownership after a win.

[King Postwhore]

We are Groot.

[jingle.boy]

Fans definitely have a right to say "we". In fact, I would say fans are more a part of the team than even the players themselves. This gets down to the fundamental question of what really makes an organization.

Think of it this way: Do you stop being a fan because players change? Coaches? Front office? Do you stop being a fan if the current owner sells the team? Go look at your favorite team now, and then go and wikipedia the page of the team three seasons ago. Most likely, there are more new faces on the team than players and coaches you rooted for just a few years ago.

I would argue that FANS are the only real constant in sports. Everything else is a revolving door. That's why, if you're a true fan, you don't quit being a fan a find a new team to root for just because you don't like the current QB, or GM, or owner. That's why a true fan will stick with a team through good and bad, as players, coaches, front office personnel, and owners come and go. So, yes, fans ARE entitled to say "WE" and, in fact, fans may be the ONLY people entitled to say "WE" for the longhaul. Every other facet of a team is essentially a hired gun, supposed to be working toward bringing fans a successful franchise.

Great post.

[hefdaddy42]

We are Groot.

We are, indeed.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Fans definitely have a right to say "we". In fact, I would say fans are more a part of the team than even the players themselves. This gets down to the fundamental question of what really makes an organization.

Think of it this way: Do you stop being a fan because players change? Coaches? Front office? Do you stop being a fan if the current owner sells the team? Go look at your favorite team now, and then go and wikipedia the page of the team three seasons ago. Most likely, there are more new faces on the team than players and coaches you rooted for just a few years ago.

I would argue that FANS are the only real constant in sports. Everything else is a revolving door. That's why, if you're a true fan, you don't quit being a fan a find a new team to root for just because you don't like the current QB, or GM, or owner. That's why a true fan will stick with a team through good and bad, as players, coaches, front office personnel, and owners come and go. So, yes, fans ARE entitled to say "WE" and, in fact, fans may be the ONLY people entitled to say "WE" for the longhaul. Every other facet of a team is essentially a hired gun, supposed to be working toward bringing fans a successful franchise.

Great post.

[bosk1]

No offense bosk, but the 49ers are not a top 3 team. They barely are in the top 16 at the moment, imo

I just objectively weight what I see.  Sorry if you are so influenced by your 49er hate that you can't be more objective.

You've got to be kidding?!?!  You are so influenced by your homer-bias, it's not even laughable anymore. A 4-4 team with more points against than points for is the third best in the league?? 

If we were just looking at record, we could just look at standings rather than power ranking.  But a few of you seem to be forgetting that in each of 3 losses, they played well enough to win and were only 1 play away from a win.  Change 3 plays and you have a 7-1 team, which would give them the best record in the league.  Sorry, but I have to put a team that is only 3 tough breaks away from the best record in the league up near (but still not at) the top.

But given your insolent tone, I am now moving them up to #2.  Wanna keep pushing it?

[jingle.boy]

No offense bosk, but the 49ers are not a top 3 team. They barely are in the top 16 at the moment, imo

I just objectively weight what I see.  Sorry if you are so influenced by your 49er hate that you can't be more objective.

You've got to be kidding?!?!  You are so influenced by your homer-bias, it's not even laughable anymore. A 4-4 team with more points against than points for is the third best in the league?? 

If we were just looking at record, we could just look at standings rather than power ranking.  But a few of you seem to be forgetting that in each of 3 losses, they played well enough to win and were only 1 play away from a win.  Change 3 plays and you have a 7-1 team, which would give them the best record in the league.  Sorry, but I have to put a team that is only 3 tough breaks away from the best record in the league up near (but still not at) the top.

But given your insolent tone, I am now moving them up to #2.  Wanna keep pushing it?

There's also a bunch of 'what if' scenario's that could've led them to lose another game or two as well.  But if you base your rankings on what might have happened, instead of what actually happened, that's cool... I can start making some ban-worthy posts, and just say "but what if I hadn't posted that"? 

Either you're (still) trolling now, or you're totally serious.  Either way,

[TAC]

Either you're (still) trolling now, or you're totally serious.   

Actually it's both. He's totally seriously trolling!

[Skeever]

Most games end with one team being only a few tough breaks away. Niners are middling. They could put themselves in a position where they weren't losing games based on a few plays by, ya know, playing good to begin with 

[Jamesman42]

Miami would beat San Fran right now

[bosk1]

Some of you seem to be forgetting why the 49ers are so almost-universally loved in this country.  But I can understand it, since those complaining are either Canadian or too young to have lived through and paid attention to the '80s.  The 49ers gave us SO MUCH in the '80s and early '90s.  I mean, they basically just GAVE US the '80s to begin with.  I'm not even sure that decade would have existed at all without the 49ers.  If you look at the years they had their dynasty, it becomes apparent that they caused MOST of the good things that happened during that time period.  To summarize just a few, we had:  the rise of Journey, the Reagan administration, the falling of the Berlin Wall, the Miracle On Ice, the first female Supreme Court Justice, Martin Luther King Day is officially observed for the first time as a federal holiday in the United States, and on and on and on.  Once they began their decline, we had the Clinton administration, grunge, etc. I think we should just tell the 49ers "thank you" and just leave it at that.

[Skeever]

I've never really thought of myself as someone who "hates" the Niners, but if you're going to say they brought us Journey and Reagan, I think I might have to start hating them now.

[King Postwhore]

And the Rubik Cube.  Now, I'm hating the 49ers.

[TAC]

..and 80's Rush!

Seems to me that once they started their decline, we got Dream Theater!

[King Postwhore]

Defriended

[Jamesman42]

All while the mighty Hefdaddy oversees it all, and blesses us with Joe Flacco MVP

[Dark Castle]

In this topic bosk sounds like a homeless crazy tinfoil man 

[KevShmev]

Cleveland was thisclose to winning two of their three losses, so, since they could be 7-1, I am moving them to number 1 in the power rankings.

[jingle.boy]

You missed Y&T in there Bosk. Somehow I'm sure the 9rs were responsible for them. If you had mentioned them, I might've though you were still being serious.

[black_biff_stadler]

By bosk's rationale, the Saints are 7-1 and deserving of top 5 status due to three of their losses being by a total of 5 points and them leading in the final two minutes of each.

[Skeever]

Speaking of, the Raiders were simply a shot down the field or a bad call away from winning a lot of their games this year. It's nice to see a team that normally sucks 5-3 and playing competitive this year 

[hefdaddy42]

I now hate the 49ers.

[bosk1]

You missed Y&T in there Bosk. Somehow I'm sure the 9rs were responsible for them. If you had mentioned them, I might've though you were still being serious.

Bah!  Foiled by Y&T yet again!

[Dream Team]

There's no more point in denying it Andrew Luck is the best QB in the NFL. Wish he wasn't a Colt... but it is what it is.

I never get into these agruements .  Just that who is in the elite category and both are including P Manning & . Mr. Discount double check.  Ben is also very close.

Ben's had a hell of a run (much like Flacco's 2012 postseason run), but to me, neither are elite, and never will be. Still two very good QBs and two of the toughest in the modern era.

The numbers say otherwise (a lot of football fans think looking at stats is not macho I guess). Remember Ben has been hamstrung for years by a stubborn, outdated organization philosophy of ground and pound "Steeler" football. This despite the fact that in his rookie season he had a 66% completion pct while leading the league in yards per attempt. He never got to average at least 30 throws per game until his 6th season.

YARDS PER COMPLETION (CAREER)
12.4 Ben
12.4 Rodgers
11.8 Peyton
11.7 Brady
11.4 Brees

A whole yard is a LOT on this kind of scale.

YARDS PER ATTEMPT (CAREER)
8.2 Rodgers
7.9 Ben
7.7 Peyton
7.5 Brees
7.4 Brady

Ben takes too many sacks because he holds on to the ball too long, but even after adjusting for that he is ahead of Brees & Brady. They are all in the mid-90's for career passer rating except Rodgers who is over a 100. All this info is easily available on ProFootballReference.com

COMPLETION PCT (CAREER)
66.1 Brees
66.0 Rodgers
65.5 Peyton
63.6 Ben
63.5 Brady

That's right, over their whole careers even though Ben throws a longer average pass his completion % is still higher than Brady's. Guys like Flacco and Eli are nowhere near this group. Romo and Rivers are, but unlike Flacco and Eli they haven't succeeded in the playoffs. Ben is a member of the Big 5. He is an elite passer despite never having dominators like Gronk, Megatron, Moss etc to throw to. Finally he is off the leash.

[TAC]

That's great info Dream Team. I've long felt that Big Ben has been far overlooked in his era.

[Dublagent66]

Cleveland was thisclose to winning two of their three losses, so, since they could be 7-1, I am moving them to number 1 in the power rankings.

 

I now hate the 49ers.

I use to hate them when they were playing good.  Now, it's been upgraded to "dislike".  The Cards are in "hate" status right now. 

..and 80's Rush!

Seems to me that once they started their decline, we got Dream Theater!

Hey!!  80's Rush kicked ass!