Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[Adami]

Yea, that's one of the guys I wasn't familiar with. I've never seen Dark Blue. Hopefully he's good.

[Kotowboy]

I'm obsessed with scale in movies. Those people look too big

[Orbert]

They look about right compared to the shuttle crafts, so those too must be out of scale.  What's the supposed diameter of the saucer?

[El Barto]

Looks perfectly reasonable to me. Consider how long it would take one of those people to walk a quarter of the circumference, or from the outer edge to the center. That's a big-ass ship.

[Kotowboy]

They look about right compared to the shuttle crafts, so those too must be out of scale.  What's the supposed diameter of the saucer?

The ship is supposed to be about 750m in length so the dish is roughly 325m long. It's oval shaped so say 350m wide ?



WIKI SAYS :

Length   642.5 metres (2,108 ft)
Width   463.73 metres (1,521.4 ft)
Height   195.26 metres (640.6 ft)


There's 1600m in a mile so it's like 1/4 of a mile wide .

[BlobVanDam]

It looks about right to me. Compare them to the size of the bridge module, the windows, or the escape pod hatches. The scaling isn't going to be perfect, but it's reasonable.

[El Barto]

If the anomaly is always bigger in the past, why is it visible several hours after it was created?

[Kotowboy]

iunno


All Good Things is awesome. With a big budget - it could have been a TNG movie and would have been a way better send off than Nemesis.

[Adami]

If the anomaly is always bigger in the past, why is it visible several hours after it was created?

I think it was technically created in the future timeline, where it wasn't present. Might be wrong, but in a bit since I've seen it. Plus I don't think "bigger in the past" means "invisible in the future". I assume there would be always be a tiny trace of it once it was created, just never anything more going forward.

[El Barto]

But when they went back to find it in the Enterprise, it hadn't actually been created yet. The Pasteur created it and it ran backward, expanding as it went. That's why they couldn't actually see it from the Pasteur. Upon their return it was, from the anomalies standpoint, several hours away from being created. 

And I'm not slagging on the episode, I think it was one of their best efforts. It just never occurred to me that the premise completely falls apart in the final 20 minutes until I watched it earlier today. Technically, the future Enterprise couldn't have played a part in the resolution since it hadn't even started yet.

[Adami]

But when they went back to find it in the Enterprise, it hadn't actually been created yet. The Pasteur created it and it ran backward, expanding as it went. That's why they couldn't actually see it from the Pasteur. Upon their return it was, from the anomalies standpoint, several hours away from being created. 

And I'm not slagging on the episode, I think it was one of their best efforts. It just never occurred to me that the premise completely falls apart in the final 20 minutes until I watched it earlier today. Technically, the future Enterprise couldn't have played a part in the resolution since it hadn't even started yet.

Fair enough. Luckily things like this don't bug me much.

[El Barto]

Me neither, actually. I'm content to let things like that slide, though the discussion is often entertaining. In this case I'm just surprised that it seems to have gone largely under the radar, as watching it today it seemed so incredibly obvious and quite significant.

[Kotowboy]

You could always imagine it was entirely an illusion created by Q to broaden Picard's mind and give him a small taste of what was to come.

Another weird thing about that episode - if it's real - is the syndrome they established Picard has - which they never address again in the films.

And it's the final episode - almost in the final scene - and they say " you have an illness which may or may not be a bad thing later in life ". Never mentioned again...

[El Barto]

He didn't have Madeupshit Syndrome yet. She said he had a defect in his brain that could some day cause a variety of illnesses. Moreover, it was likely 25 years before the actual onset, since that's the reason Geordi shows up at the vineyard.

More importantly, the movies don't seem to have anything to do with the series. The names are the same, but the characters really aren't. Hell, they could have blown Picard's arms off and it wouldn't be reflected in the movies.

[Adami]

More importantly, the movies don't seem to have anything to do with the series. The names are the same, but the characters really aren't.

I honestly don't see this at all. Yes, they're more dark/serious versions of the characters, but they don't seem like different people to me.

[Orbert]

They're definitely extensions of the characters from the series, the same characters years later, which is exactly what they're supposed to be.

[Kotowboy]

Marina Sirtis said there was 2 days between finishing All Good Things and starting Generations.

[El Barto]

More importantly, the movies don't seem to have anything to do with the series. The names are the same, but the characters really aren't.

I honestly don't see this at all. Yes, they're more dark/serious versions of the characters, but they don't seem like different people to me.

The biggest problem is that the only two characters that really interest me are the ones that change most dramatically. Data gets the personality chip hard-wired into him and becomes the clown. That happens almost immediately and he's a fundamentally different character from that point on. I find the funny Data amusing enough, but it's not the same by any means. Picard becomes prone to Ramboism. Not really in Generations, but every movie after that involves him spending a good deal of time as Jean McClain. Moreover, his personality changes to suit the action hero persona. How many times does he disregard orders or the safety of his crew during final 3 movies? The rest of them don't change too much, but Troi becomes the federation's most useful employee, as her pedantic psychobabble isn't very entertaining in long form. Notice that whenever things are at their most dramatic she's either flying the ship or sitting a ops. When they crash the ship in Generations there are 30 people on the bridge. Was she really the most qualified to be the flying the ship as they're crash landing?

In the series you can do stuff like that from time to time, because the next week Data is unemotional, Picard is a diplomatic and Troi is whining about emotions. In the movies none of that stuff sells, so they spend all of their time in more entertaining character.

[Adami]

I'd call that character development. Even if it's development you don't like. They're not fundamentally different though.

[El Barto]

I'd call that character development. Even if it's development you don't like. They're not fundamentally different though.

That works for Troi becoming Wonder Woman. Not so much for Data and Picard. They "evolved" right on out of the defining characteristics of who they'd been all this time. Data's emotional detachment and longing to be human, and Picard's thoughtfulness.

[ZirconBlue]

If the anomaly is always bigger in the past, why is it visible several hours after it was created?

I noticed that on first viewing.  I don't usually notice plot holes or whatever, but time-travel type situations I tend to invest more thought into, for some reason.

[Adami]

I'd call that character development. Even if it's development you don't like. They're not fundamentally different though.

That works for Troi becoming Wonder Woman. Not so much for Data and Picard. They "evolved" right on out of the defining characteristics of who they'd been all this time. Data's emotional detachment and longing to be human, and Picard's thoughtfulness.

I didn't have a problem with Data. I'll give you the Picard thing, but only in Insurrection. He made perfect sense in the other movies. In Generations and hell, even that awful Nemesis, it was pretty normal Picard. In First Contact, the trauma and his feelings toward the Borg overcame his normal sensibilities, but it was still in line with his character, given everything he went through.

Honestly, if Data and Picard are just one thing all the time, then those are some pretty flat characters.

[El Barto]

I'd call that character development. Even if it's development you don't like. They're not fundamentally different though.

That works for Troi becoming Wonder Woman. Not so much for Data and Picard. They "evolved" right on out of the defining characteristics of who they'd been all this time. Data's emotional detachment and longing to be human, and Picard's thoughtfulness.

I didn't have a problem with Data. I'll give you the Picard thing, but only in Insurrection. He made perfect sense in the other movies. In Generations and hell, even that awful Nemesis, it was pretty normal Picard. In First Contact, the trauma and his feelings toward the Borg overcame his normal sensibilities, but it was still in line with his character, given everything he went through.

Honestly, if Data and Picard are just one thing all the time, then those are some pretty flat characters.

If it were just the Ahab thing in FC, that would be one thing. Leaving the neutral zone to join the fight against the Borg was a different matter, and not at all Piccard-like. And the problem with Data wasn't expanding him with the emotion chip, per se. It's that they did it when they knew there would only be 2 or three stories left to tell, all self contained. There wasn't any development. There was "new and improved Funny Data" thrown in to make the movies different. It was a conscious effort to make him a fundamentally different character for the movies.

[Kotowboy]

Maybe nobody cares.

[Adami]

Maybe nobody cares.

GOD DAMMIT I CARE THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF!

[Kotowboy]

There is no Enterprise. There is no Starfleet. There is no United Federation of Planets.

There is no Picard or Data or Q.

It's all made up.

[Adami]

There is no Enterprise. There is no Starfleet. There is no United Federation of Planets.

There is no Picard or Data or Q.

It's all made up.

Pft. Yea, like I'll ever believe that.

[Kotowboy]

So who cares if Picard in Generations is so out of character and the nexus is a massive plot hole ?

There is no such thing as a nexus or a "picard".

It's all fake.








Insurrection is still shit though.

[BlobVanDam]

Nemesis is still shit though.

FTFY.

[Adami]

Nemesis, insurrection, motion picture, Final Frontier, 2009 and Into Darkness are still shit though.

FTFY.

There, we good.

[BlobVanDam]

Insurrection was slower and more like the series, but wasn't close to shit. TMP was slow, boring and self indulgent, but not really shit either. TFF was so bad it's good, so that was highly entertaining shit. 2009 had a stupid modern Hollywood plot full of holes, but it was ok overall. Into Darkness was a steaming pile of shit.

We're now judging Star Trek movies on the Bristol stool scale.

[Kotowboy]

Sometimes I wonder why certain people even post in this thread.

[BlobVanDam]

Because all Trek fans must love everything.

You're no different to the rest of us.

[King Postwhore]

Old Trek fans need to get over the fact that the new movies are action films. 


The series in general was dying.  You can't deny that.  They needed to take a break and pull new fans in.  Doing it the old way would do nothing again and they needed to make an action packed film.  I know what you are going to say, the writing, the writing, the writing.   It's not that bad.  It's just that it's not they way the old fans want it written.

I hope this is a catalyst to have a well written TV series more in the vein of the older series.  I'm ok with all this.

[hefdaddy42]

Sometimes I wonder why certain people even post in this thread.

Me too.