Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[Kotowboy]

I'm pretty sure that Bryan Fuller is the show runner as well as Producer and Writer.

[Dream Team]

Spock's a great Vulcan, but with a caveat. It was his conflict and eventual embrace of his humanity that made him great. When he was young and trying to be the Vulcan hardass he was great. When he died and came back confused he was good. When he got old and wisdom allowed him to strike a nice balance he was great again. Reunification era Spock was excellent, and the "I have no regrets" scene with Data was a high point of his character, I think.

Tuvok was just a run of the mill Vulcan hardass, but that also made him great. He was pure Vulcan, and still quite interesting. The only other regularly occurring Vulcans all had various peculiarities or eccentricities.

And looking over my first paragraph, it occurs to me that Spock is pretty unique in that it's very rare to see any character evolve as much as he did over a span of nearly 50 years. He aged 124 years between Lt. Spock in The Cage/Menagerie and Ambassador Spock in Unification. Over that span his character evolved very similarly to the actor that played him.

  Great synopsis EB.

[Kotowboy]

So Star Trek Beyond is shooting additional footage with a new actress...

Maybe the original actress didn't work out in editing ?

Before anyone cries Trainwreck.. It's not uncommon for movies to get last minute reshoots. Captain America 3 did and Star trek 2 even did.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah sorry, but that sounds like last minute scrambling to me.





Trainwreck. 

[Kotowboy]

To you maybe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pick-up_(filmmaking)

It's a common thing.

[BlobVanDam]

I know it's common. I know how movies are made. But in this context, I can't imagine it being a good sign. I know of many movies that did reshoots to try to polish the turd at the last minute.

[Kotowboy]

Star trek 2. Back To The Future...

[Kotowboy]

Whatevs. I'm getting less interested all the time. I need a really good trailer to get me excited again. I'll still go and see it though.

[BlobVanDam]

Obviously I'll go and see it either way.


Because I'll need to be able to discuss all of the reasons why it failed miserably.

[Kotowboy]

I'm sure you will. 👍

[El Barto]

The most likely explanation would be that they needed a couple of scenes to explain something that people weren't picking up on. If you figure that the majority of what they initially shot was explosions, fistfights, motorcycle chases, and people running across conveyor belts, then it makes sense that they need to add another plot element here and there (thought it does seem odd that it would suddenly be important now, in the third installment).

If they did have to reshoot some scenes featuring somebody that didn't work out, it'd be highly concerning that they just figured it out now. Replacing characters in ST isn't a new thing (Geneviève Bujold), but you normally figure it out while you're shooting.

[Adami]

The most likely explanation would be that they needed a couple of scenes to explain something that people weren't picking up on. If you figure that the majority of what they initially shot was explosions, fistfights, motorcycle chases, and people running across conveyor belts, then it makes sense that they need to add another plot element here and there (thought it does seem odd that it would suddenly be important now, in the third installment).

If they did have to reshoot some scenes featuring somebody that didn't work out, it'd be highly concerning that they just figured it out now. Replacing characters in ST isn't a new thing (Geneviève Bujold), but you normally figure it out while you're shooting.

Personally, I think that they didn't like the actress's original hairstyle so they are reshooting with a new hairdo.

[Kotowboy]

https://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/green-room-new-trailer-promises-you-wont-forget-patrick-stewart/

Trailer for new horror movie starring Patrick Stewart as a Nazi.

[BlobVanDam]

The joke's on him. I'd let Patrick Stewart keep me hostage any day.




I've said too much.

[Progmetty]

Fellas, I'm having a grand time watch TOS, it'll be a sad day when I run out of episodes..
If you guys recall; I took a long hiatus after watching Space Seed, about a year. A few month back I picked up on Barto's list and been posting about it, then I lost my job and oddly that got me posting less but I'm still watching, so yesterday I scrolled all the way up the Netflix season 1 list and got interested in watching The Cage, which is not on the list, without any background knowledge about the production history for the episode. Throughout the episode I had a strong deja vu feeling about everything even though I've never seen this episode according to Netflix and Barto's list, so I read up on it and found out why, The Menagerie, which I proceeded to rewatch both parts of it after The Cage last night.
So I just came here to say that this, for my money, was the most clever possible thing the show runners could have come up with to reuse the unaired pilot and incorporate it into the show, absolutely brilliant, I think modern tv producers would have made a bull shit episode where Talos IV gets mentioned somehow as a gateway for Spock to tell the story of The Cage and send us on a flashback for the rest of it, but what they've done here was very original and engaging with minimal plot holes.
Also fine job on picking the actor playing severely injured Christopher Pike in The Menagerie, it worked perfectly to have him so banged up because the original actor was not available but also in the context of the plot, I thought the make-up was gruesome and decent enough for the sixties. Pike's character arc worked beautifully for something that was not intended to be that way.
Jeffrey Hunter, Pike in The Cage, died a couple of years after The Menagerie was broadcasted at age 42, pretty tragic, great actor, anybody thinks he would have made a better lead throughout the show had The Cage been approved as the pilot? I'm 50/50 on that, he's a better actor than Shatner IMO.

[BlobVanDam]

Acting ability is irrelevant. It's the Shat!

[Progmetty]

Case closed , man that guy cracks me up so damn much, I've recently noticed that he always has that maybe-we'll-fuck-later smile whenever he speaks to women and it's the single cheesiest thing on TOS, undisputed, no alien make up or corny dialogue tops that smile, it's especially funny seeing how no actress has been able to react to it in a way that acknowledges it.

[King Postwhore]

Acting ability is irrelevant. It's the Shat!

They




Don't





Understand.

[BlobVanDam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArU0A0sEg_8

[King Postwhore]

 

I've always wanted to slowly enunciate with each blow I throw I've landed in a fight. Seems like a great release.

[El Barto]

Not only was The Menagerie a great way to use existing footage that was very good in its own right, the new footage made for an excellent episode as well. I consider it pretty easily a top 5 episode.

While I'm perfectly fine with Jeff Hunter as Pike, I'm always hesitant to consider changes to something that really worked. Even if they film the same episodes, is the show as good if Nimoy and Hunter don't hate each other? If Takai and Nichols get increased airtime to develop their characters, does it improve the show?

And I never would have included The Cage and The Menagerie, for obvious reasons, but I thought I did provide an explanation as to how the two worked.

[Progmetty]

I must have missed it Barto, still enjoyed the episodes though.
According to something Pike said in The Cage; I finally gathered that Yeoman is a title, not someone's name, took me a while to figure that out heh

[Progmetty]

"Sir, there's a multilegged creature crawling on your shoulder"

[Kotowboy]

"Sir, there's a multilegged creature crawling on your shoulder"

That reminds me of the TNG episode where that guy eats a bug at the end and he gets phasered until his head and chest blow up.

It was always cut on TV and I didn't see it uncut til Netflix.

[Orbert]

  That's a somewhat simplified description of what's going on in that scene, but basically accurate.  Also, I remember as I watched that scene, that that was easily the best special effects I'd ever seen on Star Trek.

[Kotowboy]

It's a great episode. I love how Riker pretends to be with them.

[El Barto]

"Sir, there's a multilegged creature crawling on your shoulder"

You must be jumping around all over the place. Or you're re-watching some. Great episode, though.

[Progmetty]

During the day I do reruns since there are distractions, then at night a new episode
Taste of Armageddon is so good, I can't quite digest the logic behind the computer war deal; both sides will kill what the other side would have killed if they had actually bombed them, so what are they saving here? property damage?!
I also credit this episode for an excellent Kirk fight scene, not only was it the best choreographed fight scene of the entire show so far but also Shatner didn't use a body double for it, which he excessively does in all other episodes fight scenes, with very poor effort on the director's behalf to hide the stuntman's face.
The Asian yeoman was hot and Mea 3 was simply beautiful.
Of all the episodes I've seen recently there has only been two that I found so-so, which are The Apple and Who Mourns for Adonais.
I, Mudd is also of note for being brilliant and hilarious.

[Orbert]

Taste of Armageddon is so good, I can't quite digest the logic behind the computer war deal; both sides will kill what the other side would have killed if they had actually bombed them, so what are they saving here? property damage?!

It was another of those "we have advanced beyond the barbaric practices of our ancestors" type of things.  The computer simulations were tied to the tech which actually existed on both sides, so yeah, they knew exactly what the damage would be (in terms of both deaths and property) and thus didn't actually need to bomb the hell out of each other.  Because that's so uncivilized.  So they run their simulated war, and the appropriate number of people go to the death chambers on each side, having been labelled casualties of war.

Kirk was appalled by this.  War should be ugly and nasty, something to be avoided.  These people had developed it and sanitized it to where it basically served as population control, and the population as a whole could continue to advance.

[El Barto]

Who Mourns for Adonis was shit. I liked The Apple, though. Good example of a completely stagnant society which was also quite happy and successful. Chekhov's old lady was also pretty high on the list of hot Star Trek babes. And when Kirk belted the guy and made him cry it really cracked me up. Also one of the highest redshirt body counts in the series. I think only Obsession might have had more dead ones.

As for AToA, it was property damage. They were particularly artistic and quite proud of it. Kirk's observation was correct, in that they had removed the incentive to try and end the war. Once voluntarily immolating yourself became an expected social norm then the war never ends.

[Progmetty]

Great concept, a couple of last observations about A Taste of Armageddon:
- Scotty is so the man! I like how he stood up to ambassador Fox, even Spock would have backed down once Fox started talking of regulations and laws, like he did with Commodore Decker in The Doomsday Machine.
- I think it's a good rule of thumb to assume that anyone that steps foot on the Enterprise and happens to outrank Kirk, or can override his orders, is going to be a dick.
I've been a Seth MacFarlane fan for years now, often times he'd express an opinion or a thought that has been on my mind for a long time but I never bother expressing it, I never had that with any celebrity or even normal people, basically the guy is a motivated successful version of me and the reason I bring that up is that I found this little gem when I was looking up things about A Taste of Armageddon, what he says about one of the reasons he liked Star Trek is on of my main attractions to the show.
This Side of Paradise, fun light episode I thought, I found it funny that Kirk again chooses to racially insult Spock as a way to get his attention like he did in the What Are Little Girls Made Of. But also in The Menagerie I noticed that the federation general order 7 made note of referring to Spock as "half Vulcan", dunno why that is or of it means anything but there doesn't seem to be any other indications of human supremacy yet.

[El Barto]

I'm a big fan of anything that challenges a purported dystopia. This comes up quite a bit in Star Trek where societies have a working civilization that doesn't jibe with good ole American values. It's always the episodes that rely heavily on ethical dilemmas that interest me the most, and the implications of judging other cultures is a doozy. Both AToA and The Apple do this pretty well.

This is also one of the saving graces of TNG. This sort of situation also pops up there. They're just approached differently. To maintain the status of Picard as the paragon of all human virtue, the plots usually work themselves out so that he doesn't have to be Kirk and pull the plug on a retarded society, but the conflict is often times still present.

I should actually make a scorecard and see how Kirk does in disrupting societies. Seems he usually makes alright choices.

- Scotty is so the man! I like how he stood up to ambassador Fox, even Spock would have backed down once Fox started talking of regulations and laws, like he did with Commodore Decker in The Doomsday Machine.

Anytime Scotty or Sulu (and DeSalle, for that matter) get put in charge of the ship they usually man up quite a bit. I always like episodes where Kirk and Spock are off getting into trouble and somebody else has to rescue them.

I think it's a good rule of thumb to assume that anyone that steps foot on the Enterprise and happens to outrank Kirk, or can override his orders, is going to be a dick.

Or grossly incompetent. I will say that there's a difference between Decker and Fox. One is just some diplomat with no command experience while Decker outranked even Kirk and possessed a great deal of starship command experience.

And wait til Metamorphosis where the person that can override his orders is a bitchy woman. Man, you're just waiting for her to finally die.

[BlobVanDam]

I should actually make a scorecard and see how Kirk does in disrupting societies. Seems he usually makes alright choices.

That's not what my scorecard says.



In reality I reckon about half of these planets would have just died out within a year of Kirk's interference.

[El Barto]

I was merely going by my personal opinion of whether or not the planet was screwed up enough to "fix." Not whether it was playing it by the book or whether or not the longterm implications would have played out well. I tend to be far more tolerant of "dystopias" than most.  However, in the ones I've recently seen, The People of Vaal probably would have been alright. He says (I think) that they left advisers behind to lend a hand. Honestly sounds like Christian missionaries to me, but they wouldn't have starved and they wouldn't have all died of staph infections. In AToA they left that asshole Fox behind who presumably would have helped to broker a truce between the planets. Better in the long run, although population control could have been a real problem down the road.

[Progmetty]

I just watched The Devil in the Dark and it agrees with Barto on Kirk's choices!
I'm dreading jumping back into season 2 since I find the Russian guy too annoying and too fake, I know the guy playing Scotty isn't a Scotsman either but the actor playing the Russian guy is just.. blah. Way to go however for an American TV show during the cold war to foresee that eventually things will be okay with Russia. Also I dunno if there were black judges in the late 60's yet but there was one on the Court Martial episode.