Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[BlobVanDam]

Remember that the series is CBS, not Paramount as the movies are. I don't think there's much connection between the two. And Trek on the small screen has always worked differently to on the big screen.
I'm not expecting anything either, but I also wouldn't automatically count the movies as a strike against it. Yet.

[El Barto]

Nor would I, but I'd count the modern audience against it. The same problem that the movies have will likely be evident in the new series. I don't think television audiences want ST in the TNG tone anymore. I think they want drama and intensity. Just like the movies have to revolve around action and excitement,  my hunch is that the series will have to be high tension and drama. There's a reason they picked the guy they did to run the thing.

If it were a sendication show then it might be different. It's certainly possible that TPTB would be happy enough with an audience of loyal trekkies. However, as the launch flagship of their new service, CBS is going to have to shoot for a massive audience, methinks.

[Kotowboy]

I have zero confidence in a studio to produce a television series in which they refuse to follow the series trademark. That is Star Trek Beyond looks the way it does apparently because Paramount thought the initial screenplay was too Star Trek.

Pegg clarified that Bob Orci's original script was TOO Star Trek - as in - he basically wrote the most fan service movie ever and it starred Nimoy and Shatner and loads of other alumni.

They wanted something that would appeal to a larger audience - i.e. not JUST Trekkies.




@ElBarto syndication*

[El Barto]

Two different concepts of what constitutes Trek. The first two movies have tons of fan service in them, and Spock, but are decidedly un-Star Trek. What we're wanting as Star Trek is actual science fiction, with some social commentary, and perhaps a good ethical question or two.

And I thought sendication looked wrong as hell, but the spellcheck didn't flag it so I figured it was just the glue I was sniffing. .

[Kotowboy]

I'd love the most Star Trek film ever but I also don't just want fan service as that's what gummed up Into Darkness. Not entirely but it didn't help.

If Khan was John Harrison and the dialogue in the radiation chamber scene weren't repeated verbatim from TWOK it would have ben a much better film.

Just a couple little things that weren't necessary.


You could have had Commander John Harrison encounter some spacial anomaly whilst patrolling the galaxy for Adm. Marcus looking for something to defend against the Klingons.

He now has magic healing powers. Marcus tries to use him for his own personal gain or he'll execute his crew. Harrison smuggles his crew out and goes on the run etc etc.

He didn't need to be Khan at all.

[Adami]

I just want a well written Star Trek movie/show.

I want to like the characters. I want them to be more than just a series of decisions.

I want to watch it and not have to constantly think "wait....why are they doing that?". In so much as, I don't want most decisions to be made off the premise of "How can we get from point A to point B?" I want the flow to be logical.

I remember watching the first 45 minutes of Into Darkness (never saw the rest) and thinking...."why is the Enterprise under water? Can't they just do their thing from orbit or did they just do it for an escape scene?"

[El Barto]

For reasons fairly baffling to me I watched the first part of In a Mirror Darkly last night.

Once again, huzzah for hot, slutty Hoshi.

Captain Forrest has to be the dumbest person to ever command a starship. First he decides to blow up the Defiant for no discernible reason. The he sends the guy who wanted to steel it all along and his cadre of mutineers over to take care of it.

The idea that Joleen Blalock is a stick with bolt-on tits is pretty off base. That's a fairly curvy woman. Moreover, she's sporting one of the sexiest walks you'll ever see. Jeri Ryan walked like she was on her way to see the hangman.

Like most ST actors,  those people are terrible when acting outside of their customary character. Bakula in particular was just awful. The only ones that were any good were the two ladies. I'd say they're better than the DS9 cast, but that's not saying anything, really.

[BlobVanDam]

Still can't agree with you on Blalock (although I certainly wouldn't kick her out of bed regardless). Hot slutty Hoshi was the better drawcard for me.

Even though I don't like S4 much at all, I liked In a Mirror Darkly quite a bit for ENT. It was still moderately fanwanky, tying into The Tholian Web and (for all intents and purposes) including the original Enterprise model, but it was a fun departure.
I agree the actors didn't do a great job outside of their regular characters, still mostly very clean cut and stiff, especially Bakula, but I don't think any of them were worse than in their regular roles.
Better than the DS9 cast though? Nah.

[Adami]

Still can't agree with you on Blalock (although I certainly wouldn't kick her out of bed regardless). Hot slutty Hoshi was the better drawcard for me.

Even though I don't like S4 much at all, I liked In a Mirror Darkly quite a bit for ENT. It was still moderately fanwanky, tying into The Tholian Web and (for all intents and purposes) including the original Enterprise model, but it was a fun departure.
I agree the actors didn't do a great job outside of their regular characters, still mostly very clean cut and stiff, especially Bakula, but I don't think any of them were worse than in their regular roles.
Better than the DS9 cast though? Nah.

I think one of the problems with Bakula playign evil Archer is that Bakula seems like one of the nicest guys in the world. I guess his niceness extends beyond his acting range.

[El Barto]

Better than the DS9 cast though? Nah.

When they're playing characters outside of their normal roles, definitely. In the mirror universe episodes the DS9 cast were always way over the top, which made them completely unwatchable. And while Far Beyond the Stars should have been a fantastic episode, most of their acting really ruined it. I found none of them particularly believable, and Avery Brooks and Dorn were just awful. Whereas, aside from Bakula, the ENT cast was perfectly believable in their mirror roles.

And yeah, Bakula's seemingly nice personality does work against him. I thought he was trying to hard to be mean and nasty, which is probably necessary in his case.

[BlobVanDam]

Oh, outside of regular roles? I don't know, I actually liked them in Far Beyond the Stars (except maybe Michael Dorn but I hate his acting in any role). Never liked DS9's mirror universe episodes though. Still probably a tie with the ENT performances, but In a Mirror Darkly was better than any of the DS9 mirror universe episodes imo which helps.

[jingle.boy]

Like most ST actors,  those people are terrible when acting outside of their customary character. Bakula in particular was just awful.

It's absolutely shocking to hear this considering .... Quantum Leap.

[jammindude]

Like most ST actors,  those people are terrible when acting outside of their customary character. Bakula in particular was just awful.

It's absolutely shocking to hear this considering .... Quantum Leap.

[Kotowboy]

Back in 2013, Bryan said that he would love to explore how the next generation era would have evolved in the rebooted J.J. Abrams timeline, or perhaps do a show set on the USS Reliant, the same

space ship hijacked by Khan in “Star Trek Into the Darkness,” with Angela Bassett as captain and Rosario Dawson as the first officer.


TNG era in Alt timeline or TOS era tv show. two of the things we came up with.



I could go with either of these.

TNG era in the alt timeline or a series on Board the Reliant could be interesting. You could have the final episode as she approaches a planet.

Keptin - we are appraoching the 6th planet in the Ceti Alpha Seestem

Thankyou Mr. Checkov.






** HOLD UP I just read the quote...

Hijacked by Khan in Star Trek Into THE Darkness ? so much wrong in one sentence.

[Progmetty]

Just watched Errand of Mercy, one of the better episodes I've seen so far.

KIRK: Mister Spock, can we get those two guards? What would you say the odds on our getting out of here?
SPOCK: Difficult to be precise, Captain. I should say approximately 7,824.7 to 1.
KIRK: Difficult to be precise? 7,824 to 1?
SPOCK: 7,824.7 to 1.
KIRK: That's a pretty close approximation.
SPOCK: I endeavor to be accurate.
KIRK: You do quite well.

I lol'ed hard at this

[El Barto]

Yeah, that's one of your top ten episodes. I love that the only people Kirk and Kor hate more than each other are the fucking Organians.

Kirk: I'm used to the idea of dying, but I have no desire to die for the likes of you.
Kor: I don't blame you.

John Colicos is always great, and he made the perfect Klingon. He's cruel and ruthless, but with a wonderful passion for the Klingon way of life. Few would ever look as happy as Kor. Martok, who you'll be coming across in about 12 years at this rate, shares that quality. Those two really set the bar.

[Progmetty]

Interesting, I'm glad to hear I'll get to see more of the Klingons in the future, I think they're kinda modeled after the Mongol's from the 1200's in culture and love of war, looks as well.

[BlobVanDam]

Martok would easily be my favourite Klingon.
I also liked Gowron, who I always referred to as Crazy Eyes.

[Adami]

Yea, Martok was the quintessential Klingon to me. I also liked the Klingon the same actor played in Enterprise, brief as it was.

I'd probably put Sarek as the quintessential Vulcan.

Not sure who I'd put for Romulan. I'm definitely not sure whom I'd put for Ferengi, since they kept re-writing the species.

[BlobVanDam]

While Spock is by far my favourite Vulcan, obviously he's half human and showed that more as time went on, so isn't representative. With that in mind, I think I'd agree with Sarek. Few people managed to play Vulcans without coming across as arrogant grating a-holes. Mark Lenard nailed it, seeming benevolent without being emotional.

I don't think Romulans were really developed enough for me to know or care who did it best. They always just felt like generic additional enemies, even in DS9. Hard to say for the Ferengi either. All of them got watered down over time in DS9. Quark was an awesome character, but they softened him up a lot.

Do we even need to say for the Cardassians? Mark Alaimo literally defined them.

[Adami]

Yea, obviously Dukat was the definitive Cardassian.

However, one additional factor is that essentially every featured Cardassian was awesome. Just a species with a great casting record. Whether it was Dumar, the dude who tortured Picard, the dude who claimed to be another dude but was really his clerk, the dude who wanted to cut out Kira's baby, etc etc.

Though, the last going Bajoran arc for Dukat really........stunk. But yea, before that he was the man.

[BlobVanDam]

I actually didn't like Damar at all, but otherwise I agree. Garak was always amazing. The guy who tortured Picard was David Warner, wasn't it? That guy's awesome in everything.

[Adami]

I actually didn't like Damar at all, but otherwise I agree. Garak was always amazing. The guy who tortured Picard was David Warner, wasn't it? That guy's awesome in everything.

I thought Damar had a great arc, but I can see why you might not like him. And yea, no clue how I forgot Garak. Just a well casted species.

[BlobVanDam]

Damar had a good arc, I just never thought much of the actor's performance, and coming from Gul Dukat, that's a hard act to follow.

[El Barto]

Interesting, I'm glad to hear I'll get to see more of the Klingons in the future, I think they're kinda modeled after the Mongol's from the 1200's in culture and love of war, looks as well.

The Mongols is about right, for now. As their mythos gets fleshed out they essentially become vikings. Honor in battle earns you a spot at the big party in the sky with all the great warriors before you. That won't happen til TNG, though. For now they're just mongols.

[El Barto]

I always thought Damar was an excellent Cardassian. As Garak would always explain, duty and loyalty are the most important things. All of the exuberance you got from him and Dukat seemed out of place. Damar appreciated things outside of duty, he drank and enjoyed female company, even laughed from time to time, but he always put Cardassia first.

Mark Lenard was the quintessential Romulan. Proconsul Neral (reunification) would be the runner up. After that it's hard to tell because the few recurring characters were awful.

Tuvok was an excellent Vulcan.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm surprised you think much of a Voyager character, but I agree. He's my second favourite Vulcan character. Tuvok had some great retorts, like Spock did, and he got the tone right. He also occasionally got to do some badass things justified by logic.
And I know a lot of people don't think much of Neelix, but I liked that the odd couple pairing of those two. Neelix was the perfect foil.

[Orbert]

Tuvok was the best thing about Voyager.

[BlobVanDam]

I think The Doctor would judge out that honour for me. He actually had some good character development unlike most of them.

[Orbert]

Ooh, maybe.  Plus I think Robert Picardo is brilliant in pretty much everything.  The problem is that The Doctor had nowhere to go but up, whilst with Tuvok the challenge was somehow developing and showing us more of him but keeping him exactly the same.  But the writers actually did a good job with both of them.

[BlobVanDam]

I agree. I thought Tuvok was consistently well written. There was one particular episode where I recall he had to do something pretty shady for the sake of the crew's benefit, and managed to justify it to Janeway logically, and she was a little horrified at how he was able to do so. I can't remember much more specific than that, but it was cool.
And Robert Picardo is brilliant in everything. The Doctor got to follow an arc similar to Data, starting off as the emergency program based on a pretty surly dude and confined to one room. I remember Robert Picardo being concerned about getting the portable holo-emitter, thinking it would ruin the character, but it opened up even more options for his character to grow and learn beyond his programming.

[Orbert]

I think I've heard that before.  Picardo's concern may have been that his character would always be confined to the sick bay, and the challenge as an actor was to do the most with that.  It also made the character unique, well even more unique, because of that limitation.  The holo-emitter allowed him to move beyond those four walls, but in a way made him more like everyone else, thus "ruining" the character.  If he can get around, go anywhere, then what's the challenge, what makes him different?  The answer was, as you said, the Data-like arc wherein he, as an AI, learned to go beyond his basic programming.

In fact, Data was awesome but ultimately was a self-contained and finite AI.  The Doctor, being a program, had the resources of the ship's computer to build with.

[BlobVanDam]

What I liked about The Doctor is that he wasn't necessarily aspiring to be more "human", but to explore his own freedom and sentience and become all he could be, and would even actively tinker with his own programming to achieve it. Data wanted to understand humanity, and his ultimate goal was to be human, and was much more about observing the human condition.

[El Barto]

I agree. I thought Tuvok was consistently well written. There was one particular episode where I recall he had to do something pretty shady for the sake of the crew's benefit, and managed to justify it to Janeway logically, and she was a little horrified at how he was able to do so. I can't remember much more specific than that, but it was cool.
And Robert Picardo is brilliant in everything. The Doctor got to follow an arc similar to Data, starting off as the emergency program based on a pretty surly dude and confined to one room. I remember Robert Picardo being concerned about getting the portable holo-emitter, thinking it would ruin the character, but it opened up even more options for his character to grow and learn beyond his programming.

Tuvok nailed the logic aspect yet still kept an inkling sentimentality. He possessed some wisdom that Spock didn't really come across until after he died and came back. Very good Vulcan.

And I think what you're referring to is steeling some transporter technology on the rationale that it needed to be done but Janeway wouldn't be able to bring herself to do it. Strangely, I've had to read some quotes from that episode in discussing a legal matter in P/R. As she said, logic can be used to justify damn near anything.

[Orbert]

What I liked about The Doctor is that he wasn't necessarily aspiring to be more "human", but to explore his own freedom and sentience and become all he could be, and would even actively tinker with his own programming to achieve it. Data wanted to understand humanity, and his ultimate goal was to be human, and was much more about observing the human condition.

True.  It would have been lame (not that Voyager writers were above that) to have The Doctor aspire to be "more human" just like Data before him, so the goal to be all that he could be was a logical and different aspiration, and took him in some different directions.

Data was an android, a facsimile of a human, so to want to be as human as possible made sense.  The Doctor, being a program, would have different goals, to simply push beyond his programming, or in another sense, push his programming as far as it could go.