Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[El Barto]

Dude, they gave her a giant fro! She looked much better with her hair up (and I'm really not a fan of that, in general). Moreover, Marina Sirtis isn't an unattractive chick. Even if one of those wasn't the answer, they could have done better than a GIANT FUCKING AFRO!

As for Wesley, you're probably right, but at least they considered giving him some style. And my point with Tasha was really that she was poorly cast. You can have a tough girl that's still got some femininity. Hell, how 'bout her sister? There's your answer right there.

[BlobVanDam]

Dude, they gave her a giant fro! She looked much better with her hair up (and I'm really not a fan of that, in general). Moreover, Marina Sirtis isn't an unattractive chick. Even if one of those wasn't the answer, they could have done better than a GIANT FUCKING AFRO!

Well I've put in my vote. My vote is hair straightener! I don't think any of those other ones were more flattering than what they went with, but I'm not disagreeing that they could have done better. She's not bad looking at all, but those hairstyles weren't helping her. But that's the '80s for you. Her hair got even worse in the later seasons from what I recall too.

[rumborak]

Regarding Tasha Yar, I don't think she was badly cast. It's just that that particular stereotype has fallen out of favor. TNG started when tough women looked like Brigitte Nielsen, Linda Hamilton and Sigourney Weaver. Denise Crosby was completely in line with that.

[El Barto]

Well, for one thing, Linda Hamilton was actually pretty good looking in both Terminator movies. I assume you're referring to II, where she was tough and angry, but she was still attractive and feminine. And on top of that, the chick that played Tasha's sister was much more in line with the heroic Linda Hamilton type. I just don't think making women look like dudes is necessary to make them tough. Personally, I think that tough female action hero thing was exactly what Roddenberry didn't want.

And speaking of Troi, I noticed something else that annoyed me the other night. When Data loses to the galaxy's grand master of some silly game, he relieves himself of duty believing himself defective. When Troi's intellectually crippled ass beats him at chess, he says huh, guess I lost then. I'm barely able to accept Kirk beating Spock in chess, because he is Kirk after all. The idea of Data losing to Troi rates right up there with Troi+Worf as one of the most retarded things they could possibly portray.

[BlobVanDam]

Well, for one thing, Linda Hamilton was actually pretty good looking in both Terminator movies. I assume you're referring to II, where she was tough and angry, but she was still attractive and feminine. And on top of that, the chick that played Tasha's sister was much more in line with the heroic Linda Hamilton type. I just don't think making women look like dudes is necessary to make them tough. Personally, I think that tough female action hero thing was exactly what Roddenberry didn't want.

And speaking of Troi, I noticed something else that annoyed me the other night. When Data loses to the galaxy's grand master of some silly game, he relieves himself of duty believing himself defective. When Troi's intellectually crippled ass beats him at chess, he says huh, guess I lost then. I'm barely able to accept Kirk beating Spock in chess, because he is Kirk after all. The idea of Data losing to Troi rates right up there with Troi+Worf as one of the most retarded things they could possibly portray.

In a game like chess, I don't buy Kirk beating Spock, or Troi even understanding where the pieces move.

If it was something that had a human or creative element to it, sure, but chess is as far from that as you can get. It's a calculated game. Even in the present day, computers have been programmed to beat chess masters, so I don't believe any humanoid species has a chance against Data, much less Troi of all people. And while I could believe Kirk was good at chess, it's SPOCK!

[Kotowboy]

I'm pretty sure Enterprise E's saucer doesn't detach from the hull like 1701-D's did.

Says who? All the other ones could. Kirk referred to it several times. The Excelsior class Enterprise had a battle bridge, suggesting the ability. The Enterprise C blueprints suggest it's an option. Obviously Picard's luxury liner could. Seems unlikely that they'd just suddenly abandon a useful feature.

Actually I seem to recall someone saying that they stuck it in " Encounter At Farpoint " because they could never afford it on TOS.

[El Barto]

I'm pretty sure Enterprise E's saucer doesn't detach from the hull like 1701-D's did.

Says who? All the other ones could. Kirk referred to it several times. The Excelsior class Enterprise had a battle bridge, suggesting the ability. The Enterprise C blueprints suggest it's an option. Obviously Picard's luxury liner could. Seems unlikely that they'd just suddenly abandon a useful feature.

Actually I seem to recall someone saying that they stuck it in " Encounter At Farpoint " because they could never afford it on TOS.

Probably true, but never the less Kirk suggests separating the drive section on a few instances. I know The Apple comes to mind. Because they never did it for cost reasons doesn't mean that it wasn't possible. Also, they published complete technical diagrams and blueprints for the Constitution class, and I'm pretty sure those showed it as being possible and are considered canon.

[King Postwhore]

Saw Deja Q the other night.  One of my favorite episodes from TNG.  The scene in Ten forward was amazing.

[El Barto]

Saw Deja Q the other night.  One of my favorite episodes from TNG.  The scene in Ten forward was amazing.

When Guinan stabs him with the fork? That was pretty funny, but the idea that she could do anything to defend herself against a functional Q is about as laughable as Troi beating Data at chess.

[Kotowboy]

Over the 7 seasons of TNG - Q goes from being a being a bully to being interested in Picard to actually giving a crap about them to trying to advance their evolution and finally helping Picard understand a tiny bit more about the universe & helping him save it...

But then they throw away that entire character arc in DS9 by having him go right back to being Encounter At Farpoint Q.

[King Postwhore]

Saw Deja Q the other night.  One of my favorite episodes from TNG.  The scene in Ten forward was amazing.

When Guinan stabs him with the fork? That was pretty funny, but the idea that she could do anything to defend herself against a functional Q is about as laughable as Troi beating Data at chess.

Yeah I agree but I was talking about when he was with Geordi and he wanted the sundaes.

[rumborak]

Over the 7 seasons of TNG - Q goes from being a being a bully to being interested in Picard to actually giving a crap about them to trying to advance their evolution and finally helping Picard understand a tiny bit more about the universe & helping him save it...

But then they throw away that entire character arc in DS9 by having him go right back to being Encounter At Farpoint Q.

Even worse I found that they just reprised the "Q finds captain interesting" with Voyager. It made no sense whatsoever.

[El Barto]

Over the 7 seasons of TNG - Q goes from being a being a bully to being interested in Picard to actually giving a crap about them to trying to advance their evolution and finally helping Picard understand a tiny bit more about the universe & helping him save it...

But then they throw away that entire character arc in DS9 by having him go right back to being Encounter At Farpoint Q.

Even worse I found that they just reprised the "Q finds captain interesting" with Voyager. It made no sense whatsoever.

Perhaps, but Janeway was more interesting. Both by virtue of being a chick, which Q played on quite a bit, and by being stuck in the middle of Bumfuck. With the exception of Deathwish, which I thought was very good, I didn't much care for the other Q episodes, but they were still better than the crossover mess that was DS9's attempt.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm pretty sure Enterprise E's saucer doesn't detach from the hull like 1701-D's did.

Says who? All the other ones could. Kirk referred to it several times. The Excelsior class Enterprise had a battle bridge, suggesting the ability. The Enterprise C blueprints suggest it's an option. Obviously Picard's luxury liner could. Seems unlikely that they'd just suddenly abandon a useful feature.

Actually I seem to recall someone saying that they stuck it in " Encounter At Farpoint " because they could never afford it on TOS.

Probably true, but never the less Kirk suggests separating the drive section on a few instances. I know The Apple comes to mind. Because they never did it for cost reasons doesn't mean that it wasn't possible. Also, they published complete technical diagrams and blueprints for the Constitution class, and I'm pretty sure those showed it as being possible and are considered canon.

I'm a blueprints hoarder and interesting in the tech side, and this is the first I've ever heard of the idea of the Constitution class separating.
I always found it a little silly anyway, Picard would threaten to separate the saucer section every second episode, but they did it a grand total of maybe twice in the series, plus Generations where it actually was pretty cool.

[rumborak]

It's funny how they ended up with this whole separation thing simply through a  dramatic plot device from their first episode

[El Barto]

I'm pretty sure Enterprise E's saucer doesn't detach from the hull like 1701-D's did.

Says who? All the other ones could. Kirk referred to it several times. The Excelsior class Enterprise had a battle bridge, suggesting the ability. The Enterprise C blueprints suggest it's an option. Obviously Picard's luxury liner could. Seems unlikely that they'd just suddenly abandon a useful feature.

Actually I seem to recall someone saying that they stuck it in " Encounter At Farpoint " because they could never afford it on TOS.

Probably true, but never the less Kirk suggests separating the drive section on a few instances. I know The Apple comes to mind. Because they never did it for cost reasons doesn't mean that it wasn't possible. Also, they published complete technical diagrams and blueprints for the Constitution class, and I'm pretty sure those showed it as being possible and are considered canon.

I'm a blueprints hoarder and interesting in the tech side, and this is the first I've ever heard of the idea of the Constitution class separating.
I always found it a little silly anyway, Picard would threaten to separate the saucer section every second episode, but they did it a grand total of maybe twice in the series, plus Generations where it actually was pretty cool.

Alright, I guess it's time to put the geek hat on.

According to the construction plans it was built as two separate hulls. "Primary hull secured to engineering/warp drive hull for final shakedown test cruises. No way to be sure, but that hook looks like it might be a latching mechanism.
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/uss-enterprise-construction-plans-sheet-2.jpg

The refit 1701A has a specific hull separation assbly listed in the blueprints. While that doesn't mean 1701 did, it's still the same hulls.
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/enterprise-phase-2-refit-program/enterprise-phase-2-refit-program-sheet-11.jpg

In the writer's bible for TOS, it was explicitly stated that it was possible, and you don't really get much more canon than that. "in fact a completely self-sustaining unit which can detach itself from the galaxy drive units and operate on atomic impulse power for short range solar system exploration."

One thing I do appear to be wrong about is that Kirk only referred to jettisoning the nacelles, rather than detaching the two hulls. But then TOS wasn't exactly well known for consistence with their terminology.

[BlobVanDam]

That first link doesn't indicate to me that it was designed to separate, only that it was built in separate pieces, which is nothing new, since it's obviously not built as one unit. It's just general scifi fluff to make the construction sound real (which I always like). The second link says 2004, so I don't count that source unless it has an earlier lineage.

I haven't seen the writer's bible for TOS, so I can't comment on that.
There's nothing wrong with Kirk referring to jettisoning the nacelles though. The whole purpose of the Enterprise design was to keep the nacelles away from the main ship because they'd be dangerous, and you'd want to be able to release them safely. I don't recall any mention of the engine itself in the secondary hull being dangerous, so I'm not sure what the deal is there, but I don't think TOS had the same concept of a warp core as they did later on. You'd think they really should have used saucer separation in the TOS movies if it were possible though.

[El Barto]

You'd think they really should have used saucer separation in the TOS movies if it were possible though.

The second link I posted was actually for the refit used in TMP, not the 1701A as I mistakenly said. Also, GR was very clear that he wanted a separation sequence in there and it wasn't doable (which is probably a good thing as it would have added another 25 minutes to the thing). He also wanted to separate it in III before blowing up the Klingons, and was thankfully overruled (his was a really awful, cheesy idea).

I posted links for the writer's bibles somewhere in this (or the previous) thread. They're available as scanned images in a pdf. As it pertains here, all I can tell you is that both Roddenberry and the writers both intended it to be separable, even before TNG. That just seems more informative to me than the fact that we never saw it happen in the first 76 or so stories.

[Kotowboy]

https://www.startrek.com/article/next-star-trek-films-writers-revealed

New Writers for Star Trek 3.

[El Barto]

https://www.startrek.com/article/next-star-trek-films-writers-revealed

New Writers for Star Trek 3.

Well, sort of. They're keeping Orci and replacing Kurzman with two other guys. The problem as I see it is that it's not the day to day screenplay/dialog type stuff that's the problem. Most of the dialog was actually pretty good. It's the overall story, and with Orci as the head writer, I don't see how likely it is to see much improvement there.

[BlobVanDam]

https://www.startrek.com/article/next-star-trek-films-writers-revealed

New Writers for Star Trek 3.

Well, sort of. They're keeping Orci and replacing Kurzman with two other guys. The problem as I see it is that it's not the day to day screenplay/dialog type stuff that's the problem. Most of the dialog was actually pretty good. It's the overall story, and with Orci as the head writer, I don't see how likely it is to see much improvement there.

Yup as long as Orci is in the mix, I'm very cautious about getting excited about this. I don't know who these two dudes are, and I doubt they have as much pull as one of JJ's golden boys.
Another problem with the first two movies (at least ST:2009) is the editing favouring the action over the dialogue and expositional scenes, so I'm still concerned about JJ's amount of involvement in the movie too.

[rumborak]

Brain and brain. What is brain?!

Gotta be the campiest and hilarious line ever in ST. Kinda also encapsulates ST's image of women in a nutshell (at least TOS).

[El Barto]

I love how it only took like 4 buttons to completely control Spock.

[rumborak]

Totally unlabeled too!

[Kotowboy]

So who do we all want to direct Star Trek 3 ?

These are my 5 choices :

1. Joss Whedon - he can do storytelling and action as evidenced by The Avengers - which was a fantastic film.
2. Joseph Kosinski - because Oblivion was a visual treat.
3. Edgar Wright. I'd love to see what he could do with a massive budget.
4. Duncan Jones. Same as 3. Both of his films so far have been awesome and I think he would do a great Star Trek movie.
5. Steven Spielberg. As a favour to JJ . Also he was involved in Super 8 and helped out on 2009.

[El Barto]

I don't think it'll really matter, though I'm happy JJA is gone. Honestly, the bigger issue is market forces rather than writing and directing. I don't think the movie-going public will support a true sci-fi movie. Certainly not in the numbers needed to cover a movie of this scale.

[BlobVanDam]

I thought they'd already chosen some guy who hasn't done anything good or scifi.

I'd be down with Spielberg or Whedon (even though I've barely seen anything he's done at all), but I don't see it happening.

[Kotowboy]

Joe Cornish is no longer in the running.

[BlobVanDam]

That's not the guy I was thinking of. We'll see who it ends up being. I'm excited at the chance to have someone else in charge, so hopefully they're smart enough to get someone who understands the genre, instead of some Hollywood explosion maker.

[rumborak]

[Orbert]

 

I... I never...

[ddtonfire]

[Kotowboy]

Generations is 20 years old and nobody realised til now ?!

My Dad made that same joke coming out of the cinema

[Orbert]

Actually, I didn't realize until now that Generations is 20 years old.  Damn!

[rumborak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RrG4JnrN5GA

Shut up, Wesley!