Sonata Arctica thread

[Pettor]

Yepp, they need to fix that production / mixing! What happened and how are they ok with this themselves

The Last of The Lambs stands out as a ok song for me but really is faaaaaaaaar from DSAW, TEOTC, Caleb, Juliet etc. Ismo's Got Good Reactors is also a song that stood out as having fun melodies and some enjoyment. The rest still lacks spark and soul for me and as someone said, blend. Maybe it's the mixing that doesn't give life to the songs, not sure.

Also doesn't really like the singing anymore. I loved Tony's style and still do on the old albums. Now it's mainly this tired slow same style singing which just for me doesn't do much. Sigh, I really just need to stop thinking this is the band I loved so much but it's hard.

[MoraWintersoul]

This has been a problem for a couple of releases now for me and maybe it's a bigger issue than I expect. Still the song doesn't do much but the mixing doesn't help.

Oh I am bummed out to hear about this ahead of my first listen. They really lost it with the production after they took everything in house - I thought taking it outside and aiming for a more live feel would fix the problem, but apparently it doesn't. The Ninth Hour was okay and that's the most the production's done for me ever since The Days Of Grays  would you compare it to the production on Ecliptica: Revisited, or something else?

[ariich]

This has been a problem for a couple of releases now for me and maybe it's a bigger issue than I expect. Still the song doesn't do much but the mixing doesn't help.

Oh I am bummed out to hear about this ahead of my first listen. They really lost it with the production after they took everything in house - I thought taking it outside and aiming for a more live feel would fix the problem, but apparently it doesn't. The Ninth Hour was okay and that's the most the production's done for me ever since The Days Of Grays  would you compare it to the production on Ecliptica: Revisited, or something else?

Purely my personal opinion, but this is probably my least favourite production I've heard from them. It's just really muddy and flat and meh.

[ErHaO]

To really appreciate just how horrible of a mixer Pasi is, you can check out the tribute album and compare the tracks to the usual output of the artists who did the covers. I actually really think the production impacts modern SA songs quite negatively. Everything sounds thin and sterile and early early "outside of the studio" demo-ish.

I just don't get it, I know amateur bands/artist who have better sounding music and they work from home without pro equipment.

I will check out the album, as I do really like their previous couple of albums.

[MoraWintersoul]

To really appreciate just how horrible of a mixer Pasi is, you can check out the tribute album and compare the tracks to the usual output of the artists who did the covers. I actually really think the production impacts modern SA songs quite negatively. Everything sounds thin and sterile and early early "outside of the studio" demo-ish.

Like... yeah. Pasi is a good musician and obviously he wouldn't be able to make a living with his studio if everyone hated what he does. But Sonata fans have hated it so much in this past decade, you'd think they'd realize his sound really sucks for their albums, and shake things up. Seeing how they've shaken things up now and reviews still aren't too complimentary, maybe the band's taste in production simply sucks!

[The Walrus]

The production is an enormous problem with Sonata recently.

[Dittomist]

Yeah, the lousy production started with Pariah's Child and certainly hasn't improved much two albums later. It's baffling. Just finished listening to Talviyo and even though I'm also fairly disappointed, I hope we can all agree that Whirlwind and Ismo's Got Good Reactors are pretty damn good!

[Evermind]

There are some good songs actually, but the production kills the album for me, yeah. That and Tony sounds like he doesn't want to be there. I realize that's his singing style now apparently, but it doesn't do anything for me.

Probably won't be revisiting this album or seeing them on tour. Unless something miraculous happens, I'm done with this band.

[ErHaO]

I like some parts, but as someone who frequently spins their last two albums and enjoyed those way more than most people seem to, this one bores me to death. And the sound somehow seems worse, though I image the song quality makes me less inclined to listen through bad production.

[?]

And the sound somehow seems worse, though I image the song quality makes me less inclined to listen through bad production.

Agreed.

I think Milena put it well while we were discussing the album when she said Tony has boxed himself in. If you don't want to return to power metal but also want to avoid going too crazy with experimentation and alienating the fans, what are you left with? A bunch of mid-tempo songs, ballads and a song or 2 that try to be sort of semi-proggy, but never really get there. While SA has never been an overly heavy band, they used to have some dark lyrics and twisted and tortured characters in their songs, but now Tony seems to be intent on eschewing any sense of storytelling and drama in favor of harmless and inoffensive dad metal.

I like Whirlwind and Storm the Armada, and Ismo is a fun little instrumental, but on the whole this album seems to be devoid of any real passion or energy, especially in the vocal department. Hell, A Little Less Understanding, which I thought was a dull single, is one of the most upbeat songs here, and Message from the Sun, which is supposed to be the big opener and have a classic Sonata feel, sounds so apologetic, like a tired professor coming into a class after too few hours of sleep and going "sorry I'm late, let's get started". I'd heard some rumblings from fellow music journos who had heard the album beforehand that it was not good, but I tried to remain open-minded and here we are - I've been a defender of modern SA for ages (even though Stones and PC were not that great IMO), but it looks like they've finally lost me too.

On top of all that, the setlist for the opening night of the tour looks REALLY boring https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/sonata-arctica/2019/omalleys-sports-bar-margate-fl-639f4277.html

I am starting to realize that maybe the problem is the mixing / production. It just doesn't sound very good to my ear. Listening to Winterheart's Guild (that also has a colder winter feeling) the sound is just on another level. Cold has a very hard, muddy mix and well, cold, mixing. This has been a problem for a couple of releases now for me and maybe it's a bigger issue than I expect. Still the song doesn't do much but the mixing doesn't help.

It's funny, TNH gave me the vibe that they were trying to recapture the WHG production style, but it just ended up sounding sterile.

[Evermind]

And the sound somehow seems worse, though I image the song quality makes me less inclined to listen through bad production.

Agreed.

I think Milena put it well while we were discussing the album when she said Tony has boxed himself in. If you don't want to return to power metal but also want to avoid going too crazy with experimentation and alienating the fans, what are you left with? A bunch of mid-tempo songs, ballads and a song or 2 that try to be sort of semi-proggy, but never really get there. While SA has never been an overly heavy band, they used to have some dark lyrics and twisted and tortured characters in their songs, but now Tony seems to be intent on eschewing any sense of storytelling and drama in favor of harmless and inoffensive dad metal.

I like Whirlwind and Storm the Armada, and Ismo is a fun little instrumental, but on the whole this album seems to be devoid of any real passion or energy, especially in the vocal department. Hell, A Little Less Understanding, which I thought was a dull single, is one of the most upbeat songs here, and Message from the Sun, which is supposed to be the big opener and have a classic Sonata feel, sounds so apologetic, like a tired professor coming into a class after too few hours of sleep and going "sorry I'm late, let's get started". I'd heard some rumblings from fellow music journos who had heard the album beforehand that it was not good, but I tried to remain open-minded and here we are - I've been a defender of modern SA for ages (even though Stones and PC were not that great IMO), but it looks like they've finally lost me too.

On top of all that, the setlist for the opening night of the tour looks REALLY boring https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/sonata-arctica/2019/omalleys-sports-bar-margate-fl-639f4277.html

I am starting to realize that maybe the problem is the mixing / production. It just doesn't sound very good to my ear. Listening to Winterheart's Guild (that also has a colder winter feeling) the sound is just on another level. Cold has a very hard, muddy mix and well, cold, mixing. This has been a problem for a couple of releases now for me and maybe it's a bigger issue than I expect. Still the song doesn't do much but the mixing doesn't help.

It's funny, TNH gave me the vibe that they were trying to recapture the WHG production style, but it just ended up sounding sterile.

Pretty much agree with everything here, and just looked at the setlist. Oof. Definitely not going to the show if there's one in my country.

[wolfking]

That's a horrible setlist.

[MirrorMask]

Heard the album. Gosh, I think I'll give it one more try but if it's a snooze fest like it happened now, I'll definitively give up on Sonata.

Funny thing, they're playing on my birthday near me, but if that's the show and this is the album, no way I'm gonna have that concert as a birthday party.

[Pettor]

Holy shit, I basically like Black Sheep and The Day, rest is a compilation of the worst songs I know with Sonata. It's quite obvious for me now that the band / Tony is going away and doesn't want the old style. Well we'll I will always enjoy the earlier day material and guess that is what Sonata will remain for me.

Also a thing. All songs start in the most horrible standard way imaginable on this album. They usually had cool song intros! I am just baffled by how blend this all is.

[Dittomist]

The setlist isn't ideal by any means but I'm glad to see they are finally closing with a song that isn't "Don't Say a Word." Closer to an Animal, Life, X Marks the Spot, and Losing My Insanity would be the highlights for me. Not happy to see The Days of Grays and Unia completely ignored!

[MirrorMask]

The setlist isn't ideal by any means but I'm glad to see they are finally closing with a song that isn't "Don't Say a Word."

While that song is great and I never had an issue with it being a set staple, I always found it weird that they kept it as the last song for year, and decided to leave the audience with the story of a deranged stalker who wants to kill his ex girlfriend. Wasn't there really any other song to close in a better way the show?

[ErHaO]

Damn, they somehow picked the worst newer (post-Days) songs they could. As I said many times, plenty of newer songs I like/love hearing live, but this is almost like the exact collection of songs I wouldn't pick. Too bad I didn't catch them last time where they played that Juliet/Caleb series, or when they played Ecliptica.

[Evermind]

Damn, they somehow picked the worst newer (post-Days) songs they could. As I said many times, plenty of newer songs I like/love hearing live, but this is almost like the exact collection of songs I wouldn't pick. Too bad I didn't catch them last time where they played that Juliet/Caleb series, or when they played Ecliptica.

Whenever they did those cool setlists, they skipped my country. I'm not even sure why, I don't think it's because of the promoters. Ecliptica live would gather a huge crowd here. Every time they play something off Ecliptica or Silence, hell, anything from their first four albums, the crowd goes nuts. We had a freaking moshpit during The End of This Chapter two years ago. Ecliptica live in full (and I think they also played WPBE too) would've probably been sold out. I alone know four people who would go see that setlist. How the hell they played here for The Ninth Hour tour and didn't come here with that tour is beyond me.

[The Walrus]

I will stream the new album tomorrow. I didn't even have enough faith in them to drop 10 bucks flat for Talviyo at ProgPower. Meh

[Evermind]

I will stream the new album tomorrow. I didn't even have enough faith in them to drop 10 bucks flat for Talviyo at ProgPower. Meh

I kinda considered buying it just to keep up with my Sonata collection as I own all their studio albums, but I'm so unimpressed with it that I probably won't do it.

[MoraWintersoul]

Don't get how we went from the TNH tour (with The Power Of One, The Ruins Of My Life briefly) to this setlist.

[Pettor]

So I felt bad that there were only negative (me included) comments about Sonata now with the new album. A band that has been an important band for me for a long time. So I felt, time for lists!

What are your top 10 favorite Sonata songs?! I thought this was very hard actually. Would easily want a top 30 to fit all the really good ones.

1. White Pearl, Black Oceans
Damn. Damn damn. This is still amazing. I actually remember the excitement when I finally got RN and how I loved everything and then, the climax. This is their masterpiece imo.

2. Wildfire
I was reading an interview before RN came out and they said something about Queen feat "bomb grenade" which really got me excited. Such a gem from Sonata. The structure of the song makes it into a real short epic of sort. When Tony goes a bit dark crazy I just love some of the stuff he comes up with  Also has that cool Queen-vibe Sonata.

3. Gravenimage
One of the songs that got me into Sonata. For a long time it was the best song I knew. The atmospheric keyboards from the intro and emotional vocals is still fantastic. Also really like how much it speaks to the Winterheart artwork. It feels like a cold warming fire on a dark night.

4. The End of This Chapter
The introduction to the Caleb-saga is definitely a highlight. Immediately stands out musically and story wise in their discography.

5. Dont' Say a Word
The perfect Sonata single. Takes all the power metal stuff and keeps the energy on top the whole song. Some Queen-ish stuff in there that I just love. The spoken bridge section is really powerful build up for the final big chorus.

6. My Land
Ohhhhhh the atmosphere. When I hear the anniversary version of this song I wonder if Sonata ever understood what a beautiful song they created and why it was that? Also shows how bad the mixing has become. This song means a lot for me and I think Tony does some of the best vocal work in his career here.

7. Wolf and Raven
This song is crazy. If you lookup the definition of Power Metal this is what you get. Lyrics are cool and the insane energy really gets me.

8. The Power of One
Silence really had two amazing epics. For me this was kinda an introduction to how cool longer songs could be. Wasn't used to it but it felt kinda short and had a powerful message as well as great progression.

9. It Won't Fade
I don't think this is a fan favorite but for me it's one of their coolest head bangers. Damn that intro riff could be the best riff in Sonata's career. That shit gets me excited everytime  Also it has this strange harmony vocals and progression that got Unia famous (and infamous) for the fans. Awesome stuff!

10. The Last Amazing Grays
Second best single. Has all the atmospheric parts I like about Sonata together with some great symphonic instrumentation. One of the best biggest chorus in their career.

(The ones that was veeeeery close to get on the list)
11. The Gun / Broken / Caleb  / Under Your Tree / For The Sake of Revenge / The Boy Who Wanted To be a Real Puppet / White Pearl Part 2

[MoraWintersoul]

Difficult to say. The first song that comes to mind is obviously White Pearl, then the various Caleb-saga songs (TEOTC and Juliet lead the pack - "the light and the clarity" verse might be one of my favorite Sonata verses ever), storytelling ballads like Broken and Draw Me, then the proggy tunes like Gravenimage, The Harvest, The Dead Skin and The Boy Who Wanted To Be A Real Puppet. My favorite classic power metal Sonata songs are San Sebastian and False News Travel Fast.

[Tomislav95]

Keep listing your top tens, people I'm familiar with first few albums but I hesitant to check the other stuff out (there's so much of it) so I find it easier to sample song by song until I'm familiar with more stuff

EDIT: BTW this is thread idea, if anyone's interested

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Holy shit, the new album is so weird. What the hell happened to the band this last decade? They’ve literally put out really subpar albums following The Days of Grays.

Production is an issue. As per usual, guitars are badly recorded/mixed (saying this not as a fan but as an audio engineer who actually makes a living out of this stuff) and I’m beginning to think it’s also an issue with E.Vil. Jani had such a better sound and musicality overall, a sound that peaked in Unia (best sounding Sonata album in my opinion). The band really lost something with his departure.

They’ve done some really cool songs in the past few years tho (Larger than Life, White Pearl Pt. II, a couple from Stones) but they’re basically swimming in a sea of lifeless and unmemorable songs these days.

It makes me sad. I used to love this band so much (well, still do), and I really try to keep an open mind with all new material I hear from any band but the decline is real. Also, what the hell with that setlist lol.

Oh well. I’ll always have Silence to cry on.

Top 10:
1) The End of This Chapter
2. The Power of One
3) White Pearl, Black Oceans
4) Letter to Dana
5) My Land
6) Caleb
7) Tallulah
8) Gravenimage
9) Wildfire
10) Deathaura (weird choice, but this is werid Sonata at their best)

[MirrorMask]

10) Deathaura (weird choice, but this is werid Sonata at their best)

Weird? it's a masterpiece and would surely make my top 10! 

[The Walrus]

Yeah Deathaura is easily one of Sonata's most creative and ambitious tracks in my opinion and definitely one of the coolest. I think that song is incredible. Those dark orchestral sweeps give me chills, and I can't get enough of that swirling tornado of sonic chaos ("I hear her in the wind / the bane of our town / come with me father / I'm to expose a heathen").

[Pettor]

Agree Deathaura is amazing. I was planning to have it on my top 10 (forgot to put it into the neaaarly made it). It's like Tim Burton if Tim Burton was really good.

[ariich]

I guess I'm a weird Sonata fan as Stones and Pariah are two of my three favourites (Silence being the third). I like the rest of their earlier power metal stuff well enough but mostly don't find it that exciting. I thought they hit a sweet spot of big melodies and a quirkier side on those two albums that really worked for me.

[Dittomist]

Yeah, I like Stones and Pariah a great deal as well. This brand new album is the only one I've had serious issues with.

My top ten list is:
1. White Pearl, Black Ocean (love the sequel as well)
2. The End of This Chapter
3. The Last Amazing Grays
4. Last Drop Falls
5. It Won't Fade
6. On the Faultline (Closure to an Animal)
7. My Selene
8. Abandoned, Pleased, Brainwashed, Exploited
9. Larger than Life
10. My Land

Honorable mentions: Paid in Full, Good Enough is Good Enough, Somewhere Close to You, Caleb, Wrecking the Sphere, Draw Me, Power of One, Full Moon, Cloud Factory, Life, Closer to an Animal, Among the Shooting Stars, Black Sheep, The Dead Skin, Ain't Your Fairytale

[The Walrus]

I love Stones. I love most of Pariah. Not the production on Pariah, though. Just seems like it's been a steady decline since Days of Grays for me. I love Stones but it very rarely reaches the highs (imo) of Days of Grays, which are admittedly hard to top for my taste... Larger Than Life however is one of my favorite epics ever. Will think of a top 10 later if that's possible.

[Lethean]

I bought the new album at ProgPower and will give it a listen soon.  A top ten would be hard... I'd like to just add the entire Unia album. But of course I'd be missing some great songs.

[?]

I tried my hand at this through a process of elimination:

1. The End of This Chapter
Such a whirlwind (no pun intended) of emotions, both musically and lyrically: while there are some brief grunts and double bass drumming at the end, it also manages to maintain this melancholy, ballady feeling throughout its duration, and I've never really heard another song like it by anyone. While Caleb obviously is an obsessed and deranged person, he also comes across as human and you can't help but feel a little sad and sorry for him, so the lyrics hit a nerve that few other songs can. Goddammit Tony, stop manipulating my emotions

2. The Power of One
While TPOO is not my personal #1, I would say it's the definitive SA song that sums up their whole range of styles. The lyrics are really good, speaking of which I should read the book they're based on someday.

3. White Pearl, Black Oceans
WPBO remains the peak of Tony's musical and lyrical storytelling, and it's so epic you could even imagine it as a full-length movie.

4. Caleb
A nice villain origin story, and I love how the song gets progressively heavier, until it suddenly calms down again at the end - once again the music and lyrics complement each other perfectly.

5. It Won't Fade
A kickass heavy tune that I'd love to hear live (feel free to use my idea of a show including all the wolf songs, guys!), though I doubt it'll return now that Tony and Jani are on good terms again. Nevertheless, I love the raw and real emotion in this song.

6. My Land
Such a simple but timeless melody that's fun to sing along to live, and the atmosphere is incredible. This could easily replace FullMoon as the token song from Ecliptica in the setlist IMO.

7. Replica
According to the official SA book people would sit down during Replica when they played it in some of the countries that had been through the Yugoslav Wars in the 90s, which says a lot about how much it's resonated with fans. It's dear to me as well, as it reminds me of my late grandfather, who fought in WW2 and lost his brothers there.

8. Draw Me
Another ballad that hits you right in the feels, particularly when you know the story behind the lyrics. "I must have... faaaailed" is one of Tony's top vocal moments, particularly in the Live in Finland version.

9. Don't Say a Word
I know they've played it a million times live, but DSAW is such an anthem that never gets old - that chorus is just massive, and Jani's solo is one of his best.

10. To Create a Warlike Feel
I had a hard time deciding between this and The Boy..., but the bit where Tony is singing in English and Jarkko Martikainen in Finnish is so epic and "stripmine your private road to hell" is such a badass lyric that I couldn't leave this out.

I realize there's nothing from TDOG in there, even though it's one of my favorite albums, but The Truth is Out There almost made it. While making this list I noticed that I don't rate some of the quirkier and more chaotic mid-era songs like The Dead Skin and Fly with the Black Swan as highly as I used to, even though I still really like them - it's just that my taste has changed over time.

[gazinwales]

This was pretty simple and even threw in a few lesser (b-sides) known songs

1. Destruction Preventer - last song on the first album often gets overlooked, but this was when I really knew that this band was special.

2. End Of This Chapter - what can I say about this that hasn't already been said? Very close to taking top spot.

3.8th Commandment (demo) - I always liked the demo version better, has a little more energy and acoustic guitar in the middle that wasn't on the album version.

4. The Gun - a typical killer Sonata 'b-side' that made it on to the Takatalvi EP along with another gem, Dream Thieves.

5. Wrecking The Sphere - 4th killer Japan only bonus track in the first four albums, one that should have been released world wide.

6. The Cage - killer keyboard solo's from Jens Johansson and a classic Sonata song.

7. Black Sheep - We're not Iron Maiden and were not in England, we are Sonata and we are from Finland!

8. The Power Of One - another killer last track, majestic and one of their longest songs

9. White Pearl, Black Oceans - another epic that could easily be my favourite on a different day.

10. False News Travels Fast - one of my faves from Silence.

Not one song past the first four albums, they are a handful of good tunes, but nothings compares to the quartet of greatness that the first 4 was and still are.

[MirrorMask]

I tried going through the discography in chronological order and I came up with this top 10:

Fullmoon
Black Sheep
Wolf & Raven
San Sebastian
Gravenimage
My Selene
Don't Say a Word
Caleb
Deathaura
Juliet


Songs that made the shortlist and that I cut (at this level it's really a toss which songs gets labeled a "top 10" and which don't) were Destruction Preventer, Tallulah, The Cage, Shamandalie, Flag in the Ground, 8th Commandment, Till Death's Done Us Apart and White Pearl, Black Oceans.

I picked only one song from Unia but I love the album as a whole. It's the whole experience, the whole roller coaster ride of emotions between all those weird and wacky songs that make the album so memorable. Even They Follow, a bonus track, slays most of their recent ballads.

Honorable mention for Shy, a lovely ballad from the early days, the Live in Finland version is gorgeous.