Election 2012

[Super Dude]

I don't really agree with Praxis on much but I understand where he's coming from. I don't feel represented by anyone running for president.

This country was bought and sold years ago. Look no further than taxes. Every page of the 66,000+ page tax code was lobbied to give someone an edge over another...same with the various regulations in banking, health care, health insurance, etc.

There is NO difference in the two parties. Yea, they'll bicker back and forth about marriage or abortion on TV shows, but they still high-five each other when the cameras go away because of the power they keep taking away from us (not to mention, the money from future generations). What is really obvious is how Ron Paul has been predicting all these national/international messes the last 30 years, and many in the GOP will support his domestic policy.. but when he went into those debates and realistically described our imperial foreign policy, "oh it's just crazy Uncle Ron again!"... these same cvnts have hardons for a war with Iran, yet they don't say how they're going to pay for it..consider how they're always bitching about high taxes. How else will we fund the extended foreign invasions?

Y'know the fact that this sort of behavior between fellow politicians and countrymen actually is the reason for what we've got now, quite the opposite of your assertion. Before the time of cheap, affordable air travel, Congressmen and Senators lived and worked in D.C., their children went to school, they went to all the same PTA meetings...there was an air of goodwill among them, and that makes it easier to work together.

Now with all these politicians galavanting across the country on their perpetual campaign, basically raising money for the sake of raising more money to get re-elected to raise still more money, that relationship between lawmakers no longer exists. That's why Congressmen and Senators are less inclined to compromise or cooperate; because there's no relationship, there's no goodwill, no desire to compromise with basically a faceless opponent. Lack of friendship and cooperation is the problem, not the presence of it.

[rumborak]

No offense, but to my knowledge Paul's "predictions" have not been particularly different from any other doomsday sayer, in that they will predict negative events with no particular time attached, and then claim any occurring one for their theory, while ignoring the long spans where nothing happened.

rumborak

[Scheavo]

It was simply an observation that Mitt Romney isn't really getting the inside scoop on "women's issues" from his wife who has led a sheltered and very easy life compared to most middle class women

This is why the Daily Show is awesome.

https://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-april-16-2012/mitt-needs-moms---motherhood-is-hard

[Dark Castle]

Not really sure what he's exactly claiming, but Romney is apparently warning of a " Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy", it was just on Cnn.  This is just getting ridiculous.

[kirksnosehair]

Not really sure what he's exactly claiming, but Romney is apparently warning of a " Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy", it was just on Cnn.  This is just getting ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure that he also doesn't know what exactly he's claiming.

[Scheavo]

Not really sure what he's exactly claiming, but Romney is apparently warning of a " Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy", it was just on Cnn.  This is just getting ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure that he also doesn't know what exactly he's claiming.

Rachel Maddow (the only single person I listen to) talks about Rove's strategy of making your weaknesses your opponents. There's far more of a conspiracy going on with the right wing media (which isnt the say there is one), so it's time to try and make this Obama's weakness, by making shit up.

Romney disgusts me, if that's not obvious. The man's vile.

[kirksnosehair]

Vile?     Come on, man, he's not that bad.  He's just a typical lying politician trying to unseat a sitting president.  He really wasn't too terrible of a governor here in MA and as much as he hates the Democrats to talk about it, his health care plan is working here.  At least our costs have risen more slowly than the national average.

I don't know, to me, if you're going to start using that kind of provocative terminology when describing your political opponent, you've really only succeeded in sinking to their level.

I have strong disagreement with him on policy and with positions he's retaken taken untaken and I would rather not see him get elected, but I just don't think a guy who has been married to the same woman for 43 years and has raised 5 kids needs to be called "vile" just because we disagree with him.

[Scheavo]

Ya, but you see, it's not that I politically disagree with him. This is a matter of what the man says and does tactically to become President. He's on the same level as someone like Glenn Beck, or Karl Rove. Look, I know it takes ambition to become President, but there are Presidents and people who seem genuine in their desire to help other People, or stick up for some Principle. Mitt Romney is not one of those people. He doesn't seem to stand for anything.

There are people I disagree with politically much more, whom I have much more respect for. There are conservatives who have actual reasons against the President, many of whom I respect. Unfortunately, they're crowded out of the current Republican party.

[XJDenton]

It seems to me that running to be a republican president turns moderate, reasonably well respected senators and governors into complete arsehats.

[kirksnosehair]

Gingrich is out.  I stand corrected on that count.  Didn't think he'd pull the plug on his campaign, but I guess money (or lack thereof) talks.

[TL]

So it's starting to look like there may actually be something to Paul's delegate strategy. No, he has no chance of catching Romney, but he could scoop up enough delegates (including some that many projections are currently crediting to Romney) to force this to the convention, no matter how much Romney pretends to already have the nomination.

Because of how convoluted the process is in caucus states, and because his campaign was the best organized for the actual caucus process, he will get at least half of the delegates in Iowa, Minnesota, and Washington state so far. It could be more, but he is absolutely guaranteed at least half of the delegates in those states. It's very likely this could be the case in most caucus states.

Just when you think the GOP nomination selection process can't get more hilarious, it finds a way.

[Super Dude]

And just when I was starting to get sick of American politics too.

[antigoon]

Never Say Never, a Ron Paul production

[Super Dude]

inb4DTFlibertarianshitstorm

[Scheavo]

So it's starting to look like there may actually be something to Paul's delegate strategy. No, he has no chance of catching Romney, but he could scoop up enough delegates (including some that many projections are currently crediting to Romney) to force this to the convention, no matter how much Romney pretends to already have the nomination.

Because of how convoluted the process is in caucus states, and because his campaign was the best organized for the actual caucus process, he will get at least half of the delegates in Iowa, Minnesota, and Washington state so far. It could be more, but he is absolutely guaranteed at least half of the delegates in those states. It's very likely this could be the case in most caucus states.

Just when you think the GOP nomination selection process can't get more hilarious, it finds a way.

I'm still not sure what he expects to get out of it. I'm still of the opinion that a Paul vs Obama campaign would be better than Romney vs. Obama, but I really don't expect the Republican party to go ahead and nominate someone the party clearly doesn't like too much.

[antigoon]

Paul vs Obama would do a lot of good for the national discourse no matter what the result. Nothing more than a pipe dream, unfortunately.

[rumborak]

Eh. Romney needs 300 more delegates to get to the absolute majority (and thus the nomination) and there's more than 900 delegates remaining. I don't know what Paul thinks he will get out of him going to the RNC, but it will be the most expensive RNC audience ticket ever, that's for sure.

rumborak

[Scheavo]

Eh. Romney needs 300 more delegates to get to the absolute majority (and thus the nomination) and there's more than 900 delegates remaining. I don't know what Paul thinks he will get out of him going to the RNC, but it will be the most expensive RNC audience ticket ever, that's for sure.

rumborak

But that delegate count you're relying on for Romney only needing 300 more is a false number. If the system worked like it seems like it should, ya... but this is the Republican nomination process, it's a clusterfuck.

[rumborak]

I mean, it would be hilarious if the RNC became a clusterfuck, I just don't see it happening. I mean, there's 900+ remaining and Romney has won all 5 states on Tuesday, and there's no reason to believe that will change significantly. Romney will have a pretty good safety margin by the time the RNC comes around. Ron is running out of money anyway.

rumborak

[Scheavo]

You seem unaware of the actual process. The system mirrors the electoral college, in that the people and their vote don't actually matter. The electors, or in this case delegates, are chosen by rules which vary state to state, and is separate from the primaries or caucuses. In this case, Paul has been claiming for a while that the delegates going to the convention to actually vote for Paul or Romney are much more in support of him than Romney. This completely changes the delegate math, and thus completely changes the actual election.

I mean, look at the last Presidential Election. Electorally, it was a landslide. In terms of popular vote, there wasn't that much difference. Or how about 2000, even ignoring debating the horrible Supreme Court decision, Gore won the popular vote nation wide, but lost the election.

The media, and most of the people reporting on the matter, don't actually get into the details.

[Super Dude]

You seem unaware of the actual process. The system mirrors the electoral college, in that the people and their vote don't actually matter. The electors, or in this case delegates, are chosen by rules which vary state to state, and is separate from the primaries or caucuses. In this case, Paul has been claiming for a while that the delegates going to the convention to actually vote for Paul or Romney are much more in support of him than Romney. This completely changes the delegate math, and thus completely changes the actual election.

I mean, look at the last Presidential Election. Electorally, it was a landslide. In terms of popular vote, there wasn't that much difference. Or how about 2000, even ignoring debating the horrible Supreme Court decision, Gore won the popular vote nation wide, but lost the election.

The media, and most of the people reporting on the matter, don't actually get into the details.

True to form for the party, of course.

[snapple]

Super delegates? Both parties have retarded nomination processes

[antigoon]

It's a bird! It's a plane! It's SUPER DELEGATE!

[TL]

One example of projections vs actual delegate numbers;

In Washington (the state), most projections have Romney getting 30 delegates, and Paul and Santorum getting 5 each.
In the actual count, Paul will receive at least 20 of the delegates. This means that Romney's total in that state alone is at least 10 to 15 lower than most counts have it at.

Now, this is just in caucus states, so Romney will definitely still have a strong lead no matter what the final numbers actually look like, but when the dust settles, he may be short of 1144. Yes, it's very possible that he will reach 1144, but it's not a certainty.

[rumborak]

Honestly, I believe it when I see it. I just can't imagine the GOP allowing to be made a mockery of themselves with that ass-backwards delegate scheme.

The real question still remains however: Does RP think he can force his way into nomination? I mean, it is brutally clear that his support among the Republicans doesn't exceed 15%. Sorry buddy, but with 15% you just don't get to be the presidential nominee. Cry yourself to sleep if that what it takes, but you can't force to get what doesn't belong to you.

rumborak

[kirksnosehair]

I am about as sure that Mitt Romney will be the Republican nominee for President as I am that I am a boy.

All this talk of delegate strategies and counts being off isn't, at the end of the day, going to matter to the final outcome.

It'll be Romney -v- Obama

And according to Karl Rove, Obama will win in what amounts to a landslide.

Not sure if the turd blossom is trolling liberals with that map or not 

[J51]

Paul's goal right now is to get the 2nd most delegates, surpassing Gingrich and Santorum, which would give him a major speaking role at the Republican National Convention. This would be huge for libertarians and would be the exclamation point on this "liberty movement".

Another note is that Romney and Paul actually became good friends on the campaign trail, and it is likely that Romney would listen to Ron Paul with regards to certain spending cuts.

[antigoon]

But definitely not with regards to the good things about his views

[PraXis]

Paul's goal right now is to get the 2nd most delegates, surpassing Gingrich and Santorum, which would give him a major speaking role at the Republican National Convention. This would be huge for libertarians and would be the exclamation point on this "liberty movement".

Another note is that Romney and Paul actually became good friends on the campaign trail, and it is likely that Romney would listen to Ron Paul with regards to certain spending cuts.

Until Romney's masters at Goldman Sachs make him flip flop...again.

[rumborak]

Another note is that Romney and Paul actually became good friends on the campaign trail, and it is likely that Romney would listen to Ron Paul with regards to certain spending cuts.

I don't see how Romney could get much information from RP regarding that. Romney would try to identify branches that could be cut with the best cost-benefit ratio. RP doesn't care, he just want to nuke the federal government. The conversation would go like this:

Romney: "Hey Ron, you looked at cutting spending. What did you identify as the most wasteful?"
Paul: "The federal government."
Romney: "No, I mean what parts? I assume you prioritized?"
Paul: "Dunno. Kill 'em all I say."
Romney: "K, Ron. Why don't you sit down and get another Slurpee. I'll be back in just a sec."

rumborak

[Scheavo]

You seem unaware of the actual process. The system mirrors the electoral college, in that the people and their vote don't actually matter. The electors, or in this case delegates, are chosen by rules which vary state to state, and is separate from the primaries or caucuses. In this case, Paul has been claiming for a while that the delegates going to the convention to actually vote for Paul or Romney are much more in support of him than Romney. This completely changes the delegate math, and thus completely changes the actual election.

I mean, look at the last Presidential Election. Electorally, it was a landslide. In terms of popular vote, there wasn't that much difference. Or how about 2000, even ignoring debating the horrible Supreme Court decision, Gore won the popular vote nation wide, but lost the election.

The media, and most of the people reporting on the matter, don't actually get into the details.

True to form for the party, of course.

Democratic process might work and run a little differently, but same principle.

[Super Dude]

Another note is that Romney and Paul actually became good friends on the campaign trail, and it is likely that Romney would listen to Ron Paul with regards to certain spending cuts.

I don't see how Romney could get much information from RP regarding that. Romney would try to identify branches that could be cut with the best cost-benefit ratio. RP doesn't care, he just want to nuke the federal government. The conversation would go like this:

Romney: "Hey Ron, you looked at cutting spending. What did you identify as the most wasteful?"
Paul: "The federal government."
Romney: "No, I mean what parts? I assume you prioritized?"
Paul: "Dunno. Kill 'em all I say."
Romney: "K, Ron. Why don't you sit down and get another Slurpee. I'll be back in just a sec."

rumborak

I would love to see that as a political cartoon.

[Scheavo]

Another note is that Romney and Paul actually became good friends on the campaign trail, and it is likely that Romney would listen to Ron Paul with regards to certain spending cuts.

I don't see how Romney could get much information from RP regarding that. Romney would try to identify branches that could be cut with the best cost-benefit ratio. RP doesn't care, he just want to nuke the federal government. The conversation would go like this:

Romney: "Hey Ron, you looked at cutting spending. What did you identify as the most wasteful?"
Paul: "The federal government."
Romney: "No, I mean what parts? I assume you prioritized?"
Paul: "Dunno. Kill 'em all I say."
Romney: "K, Ron. Why don't you sit down and get another Slurpee. I'll be back in just a sec."

rumborak

I'm not entirely sure that's true. There were a couple of times in the debates where Paul made moderate compromises, or at least hinted that it would be reasonable. I remember for sure he mentioned something about costs related to foreign troops, and how we could use half that money to pay down the debt, and the other half can go to our social safety nets.

[rumborak]

Hmm, that must have escaped me, and it's also a moderation that was neither in his ads nor amongst his followers. So, if he has actually inklings of moderation, he utterly failed on emphasizing on them.

rumborak

[Scheavo]

Hmm, that must have escaped me, and it's also a moderation that was neither in his ads nor amongst his followers. So, if he has actually inklings of moderation, he utterly failed on emphasizing on them.

rumborak

Well, let's put it this way... I remember him doing it, becuase it was so contrary to most of his message and the standard libertarian mantra. I saw it early on, and it made me hopeful he would expand upon that message, but he doesn't seem to have done so.

So, I'm not entirely sure what he would do, but the way he said it felt genuine, and as if he would prefer something get done over nothing.