Author Topic: Election 2012  (Read 124663 times)

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Offline Scheavo

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Election 2012
« on: August 10, 2011, 12:28:38 PM »
14 months out, what do people think is going to happen in the 2012 elections? A new poll suggests a "change in power" in Washington, what would this actually mean? And will the voters actually vote in a way which changes power in Washington? People still seem to generally like their Representative or Senator. On top of that, our system creates a false dichotomy of Democrat of Republican, so unless people wise up and en masse vote for a different party and work on getting rid of our corrupt as fuck government, I'm not sure if it'll amount to much.

Practically speaking, even given all of Obama's faults, I still think he has a better chance of winning than not. The GOP field is very weak, and he'll be the lesser of two evils. Not sure what will happen in congress.

Offline PraXis

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2011, 01:03:28 PM »
A new puppet will be elected and nothing will change. We'll still be meddling in the Middle East, and we'll still have the Patriot Act.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2011, 01:06:34 PM »
A new puppet will be elected and nothing will change. We'll still be meddling in the Middle East, and we'll still have the Patriot Act.
Basically this. I can see a shift back to the Republicans, but we'll still have a massive deficit and we'll still be stuck in two wars we can't afford. I'm not a huge Obama fan, but so far I'm not impressed by any of the leading GOP candidates.

Offline ClairvoyantCat

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2011, 01:08:42 PM »
Practically speaking, even given all of Obama's faults, I still think he has a better chance of winning than not. The GOP field is very weak, and he'll be the lesser of two evils.

Pretty much.  The GOP is a pretty weak contender as it stands right now.  They are in desperate need of more moderate views and, more simply put, better candidates.  They'd probably have a better shot if there were a more immediate foreign issue at hand, but with the recent killing of Osama among other things I don't think the focus will be on that.  Sure, there is growing discontent with Obama, but I believe he's still generally favored by the public, and if not his billion-dollar campaign probably won't hurt.  And, of course, he has the advantage of being the incumbent president.  As it stands, to me, there is a hell of a lot pointing towards a reelection.  

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2011, 01:12:55 PM »
I'll be more interested in how things go in congress. Will people be pissed at the Republicans for basically refusing to compromise on anything? From polls I've seen a large majority of Americans want tax loopholes closed and higher taxes on the rich. The Republicans refused to let these things happen. I don't think that most Americans want only spending cuts.

Offline Adami

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2011, 01:16:49 PM »
One of the sides will be in power while the other side does everything possible to stop them from having any power.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2011, 01:18:43 PM »
I'd bet on Obama toughing it out.  Romney and Perry will slaughter each other in the primaries, though I'm no sure who'll win.  I'd probably bet on Perry (better hair), but he wouldn't fair well in a general election.  For one thing,  despite the fact that they hated each other,  people will associate him with the last imbecilic Texan to hold the office.  Plus he'll be too far to the right to gain moderate support.  That prayer stunt the other day will help him with the crazoids who still worship Palin's silly ass, but that doesn't help you win nationwide elections.  The GOP is in a situation where the candidate more likely to win the primaries by appealing to whackjobs can't win the office.

As for congress, who the hell knows.  The conventional wisdom is that Obama's party will take a hit, but at the same time,  the GOP is pretty seriously fucked up right now.  The Tea Party fissure hasn't even started to get big yet, and will cause them a great deal of trouble for years to come.  The Budget issue reflects more poorly on both the GOP and the TP than the democrats.  S&P seemed pretty clear that it was their obstruction that caused the downgrade.  Add to that their inexplicable hard-on to screw with Medicair, which is instant death for a politician.  Last time around they were able to ride on an anti-Obamacare [alleged] mandate,  but that's less and less the attractive strategy as people become more accepting of the fact that it's a done deal.  

Honestly,  I don't really see things looking too different in 2013.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 01:19:00 PM »
I'll be more interested in how things go in congress. Will people be pissed at the Republicans for basically refusing to compromise on anything? From polls I've seen a large majority of Americans want tax loopholes closed and higher taxes on the rich. The Republicans refused to let these things happen. I don't think that most Americans want only spending cuts.

Even a lot of tea partiers don't want cuts to social welfare programs. They love their social security and their medicare.

and if not his billion-dollar campaign probably won't hurt.  

This election is going to be interesting in terms of advertisements... Super-pacs have never existed before, and it's already putting a lot of money into the political system (yay corruption, yay propaganda!).


Offline juice

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2011, 02:00:25 PM »
I hope someone other than Obama will be president but we'll see.

Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2011, 02:44:33 PM »
It would be interesting for a strong progressive primary challenger to come out against Obama. If for nothing more than to call him out on everything he didn't/hasn't/won't fight for. 

You know, a lot of candidates have been signing pledges...how about we elect someone who signs a pledge stating he will only serve one term? Go fuck shit up in Washington, expose everything, die a political death, and then bow out after four years. I can dream, can't I? :p

Offline William Wallace

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2011, 02:51:50 PM »
A new puppet will be elected and nothing will change. We'll still be meddling in the Middle East, and we'll still have the Patriot Act.
Yeah. Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are the only two candidates who would have the balls to make substantial changes to any policy. Naturally, neither has a chance in the general election, or  even the primary for that matter.

Offline ResultsMayVary

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2011, 03:19:15 PM »
It would be interesting for a strong progressive primary challenger to come out against Obama. If for nothing more than to call him out on everything he didn't/hasn't/won't fight for. 

You know, a lot of candidates have been signing pledges...how about we elect someone who signs a pledge stating he will only serve one term? Go fuck shit up in Washington, expose everything, die a political death, and then bow out after four years. I can dream, can't I? :p
This. This. This. That would be sweet.
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Offline j

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 05:18:56 PM »
A new puppet will be elected and nothing will change.

Yup yup.  If the GOP can put up a halfway decent candidate, I'd probably bank on them, because the masses are so (largely unfairly) disgusted with Obama at this point.  But again, it doesn't matter at all.

You know, a lot of candidates have been signing pledges...how about we elect someone who signs a pledge stating he will only serve one term? Go fuck shit up in Washington, expose everything, die a political death, and then bow out after four years.

This is the stuff of my dreams.

-J

Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2011, 06:27:02 PM »
Hmm.. if Romney, Paulson, or Paul are the Repub. candidate, then I'd be voting Pub.

Otherwise, Obama, since he seems a good deal less threatening than Perry or others.

Though I'm not going to be able to vote in 2012. 


Offline Sigz

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2011, 06:31:42 PM »
Romney and Perry will slaughter each other in the primaries, though I'm no sure who'll win.  I'd probably bet on Perry (better religion)

FTFY
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2011, 08:25:48 PM »
It's weird.  Perry wasn't overtly religious until the last year or two, when he was building up his presidential resume.  He probably was privately, who knows, but certainly not like Bush was before him.  But yeah,  you're right about the electability of them based on that.  I'd guess that Mitt's the bigger bible thumper,  it's just the wrong version that he's beating on.

Still,  I think Perry will do better based on appearance.  He has what the French call, I don't know what, and it'll work well for him.  While Romney looks presidential,  Perry looks and acts like a good ole boy.  The same sort of thing that got Reagan and W elected.  Sadly,  he's equally dimwitted and twice as shallow as either of those nimrods. 
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Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2011, 08:28:51 PM »
Still,  I think Perry will do better based on appearance.  He has what the French call, I don't know what, and it'll work well for him.  While Romney looks presidential,  Perry looks and acts like a good ole boy.  The same sort of thing that got Reagan and W elected.  Sadly,  he's equally dimwitted and twice as shallow as either of those nimrods. 

Anyone who's voting for their nation's #1 figurehead based on appearance is either really cynical or too stupid to have been given the right to vote.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 08:39:27 PM by MasterShakezula »

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2011, 08:38:20 PM »
Still,  I think Perry will do better based on appearance.  He has what the French call, I don't know what, and it'll work well for him.  While Romney looks presidential,  Perry looks and acts like a good ole boy.  The same sort of thing that got Reagan and W elected.  Sadly,  he's equally dimwitted and twice as shallow as either of those nimrods. 

Anyone who's voting for their nation's #1 figurehead based on appearance is either really cynical or to stupid to have been given the right to vote.

Funny you should mention that...

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/exclusive/candidate-looks-matter-less-informed-voters-133346843.html


Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2011, 08:40:11 PM »
Kennedy vs Nixon comes to mind.

Offline Adami

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2011, 08:43:34 PM »
Kennedy vs Nixon comes to mind.

Luckily that rule worked in our favor on that one.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2011, 08:51:22 PM »
Still,  I think Perry will do better based on appearance.  He has what the French call, I don't know what, and it'll work well for him.  While Romney looks presidential,  Perry looks and acts like a good ole boy.  The same sort of thing that got Reagan and W elected.  Sadly,  he's equally dimwitted and twice as shallow as either of those nimrods. 

Anyone who's voting for their nation's #1 figurehead based on appearance is either really cynical or too stupid to have been given the right to vote.
Yes and no.  There are plenty of people who'll vote for Perry because he's a handsome guy, but they're the exception and probably about in line with the people who'll vote for Obama because he's [sort of] black.  They're all pointless like you said.  But,  appearance is still important.  Remember that absolutely nothing that any of these people say will have any substance whatsoever.  A lot of what people will be judging them by is the quality of their bullshit, and that's based largely on appearance.  Kennedy didn't win out because he was a more handsome fellow than Nixon.  He won out because he was cool and laid back while Nixon was stiff and analytical.
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Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2011, 01:57:33 PM »
Anyone who's voting for their nation's #1 figurehead based on appearance is either really cynical or too stupid to have been given the right to vote.

Read a history book Shake, it's happened already.  Warren G. Gangster Motherfuckin' Harding.

Bam.
     

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2011, 01:59:47 PM »
There's a reason the taller candidate nearly always wins. Appearances can go a long way to get a candidate elected.

Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2011, 02:05:52 PM »
So in other words, the US population is too cynical and the right to vote should be severely restricted?

Offline Adami

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2011, 02:09:28 PM »
So in other words, the US population is too cynical and the right to vote should be severely restricted?

Considering how few people vote, restricting it would end up with like 4% of the population deciding everything.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2011, 11:52:40 AM »
Heh.


Offline chknptpie

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2011, 12:47:02 PM »
I'm pretty sick of the two party system in general. The money in politics is disgusting. $14million to campaign? That type of money could be much better used elsewhere. I'm hoping that americanselect.org (I started a thread on it, but has gotten little attention) turns out pretty decent and doesn't just spoil the Obama vote.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2011, 12:50:53 PM »
$14 million? It'll probably be well over a billion dollars spent on this campaign. Wasn't it close last time? And that was before corporations could spend as much as they want.

Offline chknptpie

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2011, 12:57:32 PM »
$14 million? It'll probably be well over a billion dollars spent on this campaign. Wasn't it close last time? And that was before corporations could spend as much as they want.

I was just stating about one person in particular who raised that, at least when I heard the figures weeks ago.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2011, 01:32:52 PM »
Ahh

Offline Fuzzboy

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2011, 02:17:27 PM »
I'm pretty sick of the two party system in general. The money in politics is disgusting.

Yep yep. It's all basically a game to see who can shell out the most cash. I'd pretty much only be happy if Paul wins, but that's what I said three years ago...
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2011, 02:31:12 PM »
$14 million? It'll probably be well over a billion dollars spent on this campaign. Wasn't it close last time? And that was before corporations could spend as much as they want.

I was just stating about one person in particular who raised that, at least when I heard the figures weeks ago.
Hell,  14 million is probably what somebody running for city council would spend.  I've been seeing references to Obama's billion dollar war chest, and with free-flowing corporate money,  the GOP will blow that much as well. 
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2011, 04:08:17 PM »
I love what Dennis Miller said on O'Reilly a few weeks back.  I can't quote him word for word but it was something like, any candidate in 2012 could be successful as long as their name is "not Obama".  Well, at least the GOP has something to thank Obama for...
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Offline Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2011, 08:51:11 AM »
I doesnt matter who makes president, we are still going to have a paid off congress. We are still going to have to deal with the fuck ups of both parties that have built up over the last few terms. I have no hope to be perfectly honest.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2011, 01:05:43 PM »
Bachmann: I'll Bring Back $2 Gas

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/18/news/economy/bachmann_gas_prices/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2

Why do politicians make promises like this? She would have no way of influencing a global commodity to that extent. It's blatent pandering to voters and sadly some people are stupid enough to fall for it.