2019 NFL Thread v. Chiefs are Champs, Missouri rules the sports world

[KevShmev]

Still too early to say that Kev.  KC is really banged up.

Right. Seems the AFC CG will definitely be in Foxboro, but the Chiefs are still formidable. It comes down to who plays the best in ONE game.

Well sure, but it is hard to imagine both the Chiefs defense and offensive line magically improving in the next few months, and they aren't winning a road game in the playoffs against anyone with a defense that bad and without being able to protect Mahomes. 

[TAC]

I still feel like after the Pats, they're the team to beat, unless Houston can sustain some serious noise.

[bosk1]

It may be too early to tell, but I'm not completely ready to write off the Bills or Texans as legitimate contenders yet.

[KevShmev]

I have a hard time taking Houston too seriously because Bill O'Brien is such a dunce cap, but DeShaun Watson is something else and could definitely carry that team a long way.

[black_biff_stadler]

I'm very glad the Saints only have to play Pat Mahomes and Deshaun Watson a total of twice every four years. I used to fear Cam Newton like that but his salad days seem to have passed and he makes pretty bad decisions at times. It's also relieving that Jameis Winston is a head case whose ego undermines him pretty regularly.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Refs just handed the Packers the game.

[black_biff_stadler]

What a fuckin sham. TWO intentionally rigged illegal use of hands penalties to bail out the sorry ass Packers on failed fourth quarter third downs. I almost wanna give up watching this shit again cuz I'm just waiting for the Saints to get jobbed again this year if they end up playing a playoff game against one of the NFL's golden boy teams.

[El Barto]

Refs just handed the Packers the game.

LOL Booger Macfarland. "Let the people know what happened here tonight. Tell the world!"

[El Barto]

What a fuckin sham. TWO intentionally rigged illegal use of hands penalties to bail out the sorry ass Packers on failed fourth quarter third downs. I almost wanna give up watching this shit again cuz I'm just waiting for the Saints to get jobbed again this year if they end up playing a playoff game against one of the NFL's golden boy teams.

Intentionally rigged, eh? So why do you even watch the game? If the outcome is predetermined what difference does it make to you? How can you cheer a Saint's victory, or more importantly a Cowboy's loss, if it's merely the mechanization of Roger Goodel and a couple of Hollywood writers?

[TheCountOfNYC]

Refs just handed the Packers the game.

LOL Booger Macfarland. "Let the people know what happened here tonight. Tell the world!"

If things start to change from here (although let’s face it they won’t), that call will become iconic.

[black_biff_stadler]

What a fuckin sham. TWO intentionally rigged illegal use of hands penalties to bail out the sorry ass Packers on failed fourth quarter third downs. I almost wanna give up watching this shit again cuz I'm just waiting for the Saints to get jobbed again this year if they end up playing a playoff game against one of the NFL's golden boy teams.

Intentionally rigged, eh? So why do you even watch the game? If the outcome is predetermined what difference does it make to you? How can you cheer a Saint's victory, or more importantly a Cowboy's loss, if it's merely the mechanization of Roger Goodel and a couple of Hollywood writers?

I don't care enough to argue with you.

[El Barto]

Refs just handed the Packers the game.

LOL Booger Macfarland. "Let the people know what happened here tonight. Tell the world!"

If things start to change from here (although let’s face it they won’t), that call will become iconic.

If the Saints debacle didn't convince the league to invent six million dollar bionic referees then it's not going to happen.

To be fair I think they were bad calls. I'm really just laughing at a man named Booger treating the unfortunate conclusion of a football game like some epic deep-state conspiracy.

And to be honest, I think the announcers often make things worse than they are. On both of those calls I thought I saw hands to the face when shown at normal speed. It was only slowed down that you could see he had him by the collar. And on the second one it looked like he hit the facemask on the way to grabbing the collar. Were they the right call in retrospect? Nope. Did they seem like the right call at the time? Yep. Is a guy named Booger treating it like a cover-up and making BF freakout? Yowza.

[Rattlehead]

I'm more suspicious than I ever have been that this league could be fixed after that Saints Rams game last year, and the officials determining the outcome of yet another game in favor of the beloved Packers against a team that next to no one cares about certainly does nothing to change that for me. I know a lot of fans don't like to hear that take because we all invest a lot of time in this league. I'm not even saying it's fixed for sure, but it just feels like there's so much potential evidence that it would be naive to deny the possibility.

[El Barto]

I'm more suspicious than I ever have been that this league could be fixed after that Saints Rams game last year, and the officials determining the outcome of yet another game in favor of the beloved Packers against a team that next to no one cares about certainly does nothing to change that for me. I know a lot of fans don't like to hear that take because we all invest a lot of time in this league. I'm not even saying it's fixed for sure, but it just feels like there's so much potential evidence that it would be naive to deny the possibility.

The number one factor in any conspiracy is always human error, and it's the thing that always gets the least consideration. Referees make mistakes just like anybody else. Nine times out of ten they all average out. Every once in a while it happens at a point that can't be mitigated. It sucks, but it is what it is. If I ever thought that the games were fixed I wouldn't waste my time watching them. Soap operas have better plots and hot chicks, to boot.

[black_biff_stadler]

When all/nearly all "errors" favor one team it stops being errors and becomes premeditated. Two hands to the face penalties where the hand never touched the face aside from a tenth of a second grazing, a fully extended arm across an opponent's chest pushing them down, and a catch with clear possession followed by a football move which was called a catch on the field that suddenly has enough contrary evidence to be overturned on review?

[black_biff_stadler]

It keeps getting better. Here's an uncalled 13 on the field.

[KevShmev]

I don't think there is a conspiracy; I think NFL officiating just sucks.

[King Postwhore]

I don't think there is a conspiracy; I think NFL officiating just sucks.

Agree.  Add so many new changes the rules committees add and their job is getting harder and harder.  It's a confluence of issues piling up. 

[Stadler]

I think King is right; it IS getting to be an almost impossible job.  There are so many subjectivities at this point that it's getting harder and harder to replicate the results from play to play, to quarter to quarter, to game to game.  Yeah, we talk about the blatant ones - the Saints/Rams call last year was about as blatant as it gets - but for every one of those, there are a 100 that could legit go either way, and I think we've gone too far away from the gut call in the moment.   It's stunning to me how often the refs, in real time, get it right.   We can't lose that in the wake of what I call the "artificial exactness" that "instant replay" seems to promise. 

[KevShmev]

I don't think anyone expects perfection, but some of these missed or bad calls in recent memory are so glaring, and when they happen at the end of games and decide outcomes, it gives a bad look.  And the NFL acts like they don't care (which they don't). Heck, look at the new rule about being able to challenge PI.  I don't like being able to challenge that, but there have been countless examples already where something should have been changed, yet they went with what was called on the field, almost like the NFL is pissed that they were forced to implement it and have made it clear to not change anything challenged unless it is extremely blatant (and even that is not a guarantee, as we saw in the NYG/NE last week where a clear as day PI at the end of the game still wasn't called despite being challenged and being extremely obvious on the replay).

[El Barto]

I think King is right; it IS getting to be an almost impossible job.  There are so many subjectivities at this point that it's getting harder and harder to replicate the results from play to play, to quarter to quarter, to game to game.  Yeah, we talk about the blatant ones - the Saints/Rams call last year was about as blatant as it gets - but for every one of those, there are a 100 that could legit go either way, and I think we've gone too far away from the gut call in the moment.   It's stunning to me how often the refs, in real time, get it right.   We can't lose that in the wake of what I call the "artificial exactness" that "instant replay" seems to promise.

Yeah, it's amazing to me that they get so many right. And we saw a couple of times last night where ESPN's hired referee pointed out that they made a great call there.

And I still think the Boogers and the Aikamans are part of the problem. I really like Troy (and Booger's actually not bad now that he's in the booth as the color guy), but not a game goes by where he's not "sickened" by the officiating. Is the officiating actually worse now than when he was playing? I seriously doubt it. Most football fans only know what the talking heads tell them, and riling them up all the time over every bad call doesn't help matters.

And for the folks who think Vince McMahan is calling the shots in the NFL, if the games were truly rigged don't you think the NFL wold have made damn sure Troy never called another game?

[KevShmev]

Not to litigate SB49 again, but I will go to my grave swearing that most wouldn't have had a problem with the call at the end of the game (Wilson throwing it from the 1 instead of handing it to Lynch) if Collinsworth hadn't gone on and on and on about it like it was the worst play call in the history of football. 

[El Barto]

Not to litigate SB49 again, but I will go to my grave swearing that most wouldn't have had a problem with the call at the end of the game (Wilson throwing it from the 1 instead of handing it to Lynch) if Collinsworth hadn't gone on and on and on about it like it was the worst play call in the history of football.

Oh, hell yeah. Couldn't agree more. Collinsworth had no clue what the rationale for that decision was when he started droning on about it. Al Michaels actually tried to point it out to him and he didn't catch it.

[Stadler]

I think King is right; it IS getting to be an almost impossible job.  There are so many subjectivities at this point that it's getting harder and harder to replicate the results from play to play, to quarter to quarter, to game to game.  Yeah, we talk about the blatant ones - the Saints/Rams call last year was about as blatant as it gets - but for every one of those, there are a 100 that could legit go either way, and I think we've gone too far away from the gut call in the moment.   It's stunning to me how often the refs, in real time, get it right.   We can't lose that in the wake of what I call the "artificial exactness" that "instant replay" seems to promise.

Yeah, it's amazing to me that they get so many right. And we saw a couple of times last night where ESPN's hired referee pointed out that they made a great call there.

And I still think the Boogers and the Aikamans are part of the problem. I really like Troy (and Booger's actually not bad now that he's in the booth as the color guy), but not a game goes by where he's not "sickened" by the officiating. Is the officiating actually worse now than when he was playing? I seriously doubt it. Most football fans only know what the talking heads tell them, and riling them up all the time over every bad call doesn't help matters.

And for the folks who think Vince McMahan is calling the shots in the NFL, if the games were truly rigged don't you think the NFL wold have made damn sure Troy never called another game?

There are literally 100's of examples of why the NFL can't possibly be fixed (just make your list of "shoulda-made-its" and "gotta-make-its" that have flamed out and you're well on your way there) but I'm starting to agree with the culpability of the announcers.   I've long ragged on Jim Nance as the worst offender of those that latch onto the "story line du jour" and  pound it into the ground, facts be damned. 

[bosk1]

Or "deplorables!"

Oh, wait...

[Dream Team]

A few talk shows already mentioned this this morning, but an "eye in the sky" boss ref who has 20 seconds to review and negate a bad call would fix everything.

[El Barto]

A few talk shows already mentioned this this morning, but an "eye in the sky" boss ref who has 20 seconds to review and negate a bad call would fix everything.

Nah. Mistakes wills till happen. Announcers will still highlight them. Fans will still scream that it's rigged.

[King Postwhore]

HD replays has hurt the game big time.

[Stadler]

HD replays has hurt the game big time.

I agree.   100%.

[TAC]

Not to litigate SB49 again, but I will go to my grave swearing that most wouldn't have had a problem with the call at the end of the game (Wilson throwing it from the 1 instead of handing it to Lynch) if Collinsworth hadn't gone on and on and on about it like it was the worst play call in the history of football.

I don't believe that Collinsworth had anything to do with the narrative of how that play is viewed. I mean we all have eyes.

[bosk1]

Not to litigate SB49 again, but I will go to my grave swearing that most wouldn't have had a problem with the call at the end of the game (Wilson throwing it from the 1 instead of handing it to Lynch) if Collinsworth hadn't gone on and on and on about it like it was the worst play call in the history of football.

I don't believe that Collinsworth had anything to do with the narrative of how that play is viewed. I mean we all have eyes.

Yes.  But most of us that use our eyes and our brains at the same time recognized that it was a perfectly fine play.

[TAC]

Yeah, I actually thought it was the greatest play call ever!

[Dublagent66]

I don't think there is a conspiracy; I think NFL officiating just sucks.

Agree.  Add so many new changes the rules committees add and their job is getting harder and harder.  It's a confluence of issues piling up.

Exactly.  Too many rules complicating the shit out of everything.

What a fuckin sham. TWO intentionally rigged illegal use of hands penalties to bail out the sorry ass Packers on failed fourth quarter third downs. I almost wanna give up watching this shit again cuz I'm just waiting for the Saints to get jobbed again this year if they end up playing a playoff game against one of the NFL's golden boy teams.

Really?  As I recall, the Ain'ts put themselves in that position with horrible play calling on the first 3 downs of that final series.  They were in perfect position for the go ahead TD.  Then, they expected a bail out on 4th down.  Yeah, the officiating sucked, but there's nothing that can be done about it.  Teams still have to own what they do on the field for the entire game.  It's called situational football.  Same goes for the Lions last night.  They were leading 13-0 at one point.  Teams can't put all the blame on the refs because they're trying to eek out a win in the last 2:00.

Dallas had 6 taken off the board because of a bad offensive PI call that actually wasn't PI.  As it turns out, if they had the 4 extra points instead of just 3, they would've won the game.  But hey, they just didn't play good enough to win.  That's all there is to it.

[El Barto]

Yeah, I actually thought it was the greatest play call ever!

It was a reasonable play call that didn't work out. It's really that simple. Collilnsworth spent a few minutes calling it the worst play call in the history of organized sports and unfortunately a lot of people believed him. Like I said, he didn't understand the rationale behind it, though Al Michaels seemed to. He judged it solely on the basis of the outcome. A lot of people are geared towards making that same mistake.

You can stand on 20 and lose. If you hit on 20 you might actually win, but you're still a dumbass.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, I actually thought it was the greatest play call ever!

It was a reasonable play call that didn't work out. It's really that simple. Collilnsworth spent a few minutes calling it the worst play call in the history of organized sports and unfortunately a lot of people believed him. Like I said, he didn't understand the rationale behind it, though Al Michaels seemed to. He judged it solely on the basis of the outcome. A lot of people are geared towards making that same mistake.

You can stand on 20 and lose. If you hit on 20 you might actually win, but you're still a dumbass.

Haha, exactly.

Leaving aside the fact that Lynch was bad that season in short yardage situations, the Seahawks only had 1 timeout left, so by throwing it on 2nd down, they were leaving it open to where they could throw or run on both 3rd and 4th down.  Had they run it on 2nd and got stopped, they would have had to take a timeout, and then you only had the option of passing on 3rd down (otherwise you risk the clock running out and not getting a play off on 4th down if needed). 

Dallas had 6 taken off the board because of a bad offensive PI call that actually wasn't PI.  As it turns out, if they had the 4 extra points instead of just 3, they would've won the game. But hey, they just didn't play good enough to win.  That's all there is to it.

Not necessarily, as the game plays out differently if Dallas gets 7 there instead of 3.