Author Topic: 2019 NFL Thread v. Chiefs are Champs, Missouri rules the sports world  (Read 124757 times)

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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1015 on: October 15, 2019, 03:23:24 PM »
Yeah, I actually thought it was the greatest play call ever!
It was a reasonable play call that didn't work out. It's really that simple. Collilnsworth spent a few minutes calling it the worst play call in the history of organized sports and unfortunately a lot of people believed him. Like I said, he didn't understand the rationale behind it, though Al Michaels seemed to. He judged it solely on the basis of the outcome. A lot of people are geared towards making that same mistake.

You can stand on 20 and lose. If you hit on 20 you might actually win, but you're still a dumbass.

Haha, exactly.

Leaving aside the fact that Lynch was bad that season in short yardage situations, the Seahawks only had 1 timeout left, so by throwing it on 2nd down, they were leaving it open to where they could throw or run on both 3rd and 4th down.  Had they run it on 2nd and got stopped, they would have had to take a timeout, and then you only had the option of passing on 3rd down (otherwise you risk the clock running out and not getting a play off on 4th down if needed). 
I think the bigger problem (and I think this was Bill's take on it) was that passing on third would have been obvious. Since he had to pass on one of the next two downs he was better off throwing on second when it wouldn't have been expected. Most coaches would have been as dumbstruck as Collinsworth by that play. Sadly for the Seahawks Bill isn't most coaches and read that all the way.

The reality is that I've never seen two coaches in a pressure cooker like the final two minutes of that game. I was just about in a state of panic trying to figure out what either team should do. That either coach was able to think rationally under that kind of pressure boggles the mind. Pete Carroll understanding the situation the way he did and managing a clock that beating down on him elevated him to top tier coach status in my book. Most coaches fall apart during that span. Pete didn't deserve to be dumped on the way he was because of Collinsworth.
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Offline TAC

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1016 on: October 15, 2019, 03:27:14 PM »
I never realized Chris Collinsworth was so influential.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1017 on: October 15, 2019, 04:04:30 PM »
I never realized Chris Collinsworth was so influential.
Don't confuse influence with convince. He didn't have to convince anybody that it was dumb. He just had to plant the seed. Anybody can do that, and because he really does know more about the game than any of us, and we're generally hardwired to defer to expertise, he can do it a little better. Throw in the fact that it didn't work out for Seattle, thus seemingly reinforcing his opinion, and it goes even further.
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Offline T-ski

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1018 on: October 15, 2019, 06:57:43 PM »
As a Packer fan, yes, the officiating was awful and truly did help Green Bay win.

But I've watched enough Packers games to tell you Green Bay gets shafted just as much as any other team. 

All games are officiated poorly and its becoming so bad I truly am losing interest in watching games at this point.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1019 on: October 15, 2019, 09:11:26 PM »
Collinsworth talks a bit about it here. He was caught in the moment more than he probably should have as someone in the booth calling the biggest sporting event of the year. He said the first thing that came to his head, and the same thing every Seahawk was saying - of course Cris is not the average fan, he is paid to give thoughtful insight and commentary. I don't want to fault him too much for this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VIvsGOL5yM&feature=youtu.be&t=178

If you want to ascribe blame, it can go with Kearse for being a rag doll; or praise, it can go with Browner for treating him like one, and Butler for recognizing the play and acting accordingly.

The reality is that I've never seen two coaches in a pressure cooker like the final two minutes of that game. I was just about in a state of panic trying to figure out what either team should do. That either coach was able to think rationally under that kind of pressure boggles the mind.

Never thought about that. Watched it again just now. Pete looks like his wife just told him she was expecting sextuplets; Belichick looks like he's at McDonald's trying to figure out what to order for lunch.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1020 on: October 15, 2019, 09:21:50 PM »
As someone who watches a lot of games in which I'm not invested, and just watch for the game, it's pretty clear that the refs aren't playing favorites.  They're better than people give them credit for, and yet they make mistakes on both sides of the ball.  Sometimes bad ones.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1021 on: October 15, 2019, 09:43:25 PM »
Collinsworth talks a bit about it here. He was caught in the moment more than he probably should have as someone in the booth calling the biggest sporting event of the year. He said the first thing that came to his head, and the same thing every Seahawk was saying - of course Cris is not the average fan, he is paid to give thoughtful insight and commentary. I don't want to fault him too much for this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VIvsGOL5yM&feature=youtu.be&t=178

If you want to ascribe blame, it can go with Kearse for being a rag doll; or praise, it can go with Browner for treating him like one, and Butler for recognizing the play and acting accordingly.



More than blame, I think you have to give praise to Butler, who made a great play on the ball.  That said, if I had to blame anyone on Seattle, it would be Wilson.  He is a great QB, but he threw the ball too out in the open.  Had he thrown it low and inside to where Kearse could have caught it and then bull rushed his way in the end zone, the worst thing Butler could have done was broke up the pass.  As for what Seahawks were saying, those defensive players can piss off.  They loved to beat their chests about being the Legion of Boom, but they collapsed in the 4th quarter and blew a double digit lead, and then threw a fit when the offense didn't bail them out in the end.  They were lucky as hell to be in that game anyway; I still have no idea how the Packers blew that NFCCG.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1022 on: October 15, 2019, 09:46:46 PM »
More than blame, I think you have to give praise to Butler, who made a great play on the ball.  That said, if I had to blame anyone on Seattle, it would be Wilson.  He is a great QB, but he threw the ball too out in the open.  Had he thrown it low and inside to where Kearse could have caught it...

Tyler Lockett was the target. Kearse was supposed to pick the defender, and failed miserably.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1023 on: October 15, 2019, 09:54:43 PM »
Not so much that he failed but rather he got mugged by the most physical corner in the game. Browner beat the hell out of him.


More than blame, I think you have to give praise to Butler, who made a great play on the ball.  That said, if I had to blame anyone on Seattle, it would be Wilson.  He is a great QB, but he threw the ball too out in the open.  Had he thrown it low and inside to where Kearse could have caught it and then bull rushed his way in the end zone, the worst thing Butler could have done was broke up the pass.  As for what Seahawks were saying, those defensive players can piss off.  They loved to beat their chests about being the Legion of Boom, but they collapsed in the 4th quarter and blew a double digit lead, and then threw a fit when the offense didn't bail them out in the end.  They were lucky as hell to be in that game anyway; I still have no idea how the Packers blew that NFCCG.
And let's not forget how the legion of boom fell apart when they had NE backed up on the 1 foot line. Pete's failing as a coach wasn't with the play call, but rather not telling his guys to stay onside on the subsequent play. Bill coaches his players that inside of a yard or two they've got nothing to lose from a false start. Drawn the D offside, and of course if you're the D don't fall for it. Apparently PC doesn't coach that because they sure got suckered in.

And then of course started a brawl after getting shown up, keeping it classy.  :lol
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Offline black_biff_stadler

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. bracing for epic Redskins/Dolphins game in Week 6
« Reply #1024 on: October 15, 2019, 11:04:58 PM »
drivel

It's funny that you keep calling them the Aints while your Pop Warner team can't buy a win and has only beaten glorified FCS teams and mine just keeps stackin Ws with a backup QB. Just abandon the sorry attempts at smack talk and look forward to little D's inevitable wasting of whatever talent they end up drafting with their likely very high first round pick in 2020.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. bracing for epic Redskins/Dolphins game in Week 6
« Reply #1025 on: October 16, 2019, 09:22:48 AM »
drivel

It's funny that you keep calling them the Aints while your Pop Warner team can't buy a win and has only beaten glorified FCS teams and mine just keeps stackin Ws with a backup QB. Just abandon the sorry attempts at smack talk and look forward to little D's inevitable wasting of whatever talent they end up drafting with their likely very high first round pick in 2020.

Talk about drivel. :lol  It isn't my problem you can't grasp a simple concept that happens to be absolutely true.  How many championships do the Ain'ts have anyway?  You can only count them on one finger.  Get 4 more and then you'll have room to talk trash, which you started BTW.  Oh yeah, and who's headcoach was suspended for an entire season because of cheating the season before?  Go back down to the valley man.  :\
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Offline bosk1

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1026 on: October 16, 2019, 09:40:42 AM »
Because fans like to overreact to their teams' successes partway through the season, here is...

The Case for 10-0:

49ers at Redskins:  The 49ers win this easily.  Although nobody is admitting it, the complete change in offensive gameplan against the Rams HAD TO be done, at least in part, because of losing both tackles and their fullback to injury.  The Rams were expecting run all the way, not a quick passing offense.  They were caught off guard, and were not equipped on D at all to handle it.  Couple that with the fact that their offense couldn't hold the ball long enough to give the D a rest, and there was no way they were winning that game.  The 49ers are depleted on offense.  But they masked it well and were able to more than make up for it with their defense.  They can have a merely "adequate" offense against the Redskins and still win big. 

49ers vs. Panthers:  The Panthers are hot, no doubt about it.  BUT what they do on offense plays to the 49ers' strengths.  The 49ers D can key on McCaffrey and shut down the run with their dominant front 7.  Yeah, they'll give up some yards and some points.  But I don't think it'll be enough for Carolina to pull out the win on the road.  And their defense has been horrid.  A merely average 49ers offensive performance should get it done.  The main concern I have is that the 49ers special teams could come up short in a close game if Gould and the new long snapper don't get their issues hammered out.

49ers @ Cardinals:  The Cards' QB is starting to find a groove.  But even a short week (this is a Thursday game), I think the unit that will suffer the most for lack of preparation will be Arizona's offense.  The SF D will suffocate them, and I predict a very one-sided game.

49ers vs. Seahawks:  If things play out the way I think, we will have an 8-0 49ers team going up against a 7-2 Seahawks team.  The '9ers will have some of their injured players back and will have a LONG stretch to prepare for this game, going from a Thursday game the previous week to a Monday night game against Seattle.  This is almost like a second bye week.  And as much as Shanahan likes to plan and play the cerebral game, I think this works to SF's advantage.  The Seahawks are weaker on both sides of the ball than their current record indicates.  And with Wilson being one of the few bright spots for them, I think the '9ers pass rush wins the day, while their run game wears down the Seattle D.

49ers vs. Cardinals:  Game 2 vs. the Cards.  This one on a short week again, but at home.  I don't think the Cards have sufficient time to learn from the defeat 2 weeks earlier.  I just don't think they are strong enough.  And even though the 49ers are on a short week, I think them getting to play back to back home games makes it a lot easier.

If that all plays out, that brings them to 10-0.  The biggest, and perhaps ONLY flaw I see in that logic is that it's incredibly hard to win 10 in a row, and any given team can do the unexpected in a game.  Heck, Pittsburgh is awful, and the '9ers turned it over 5 times in that game!  If that happens against, say, the Panthers, I don't see them climbing out of that hole.  But I do think that they have a great shot at it.  In terms of schedule, the strengths of this particular team, and other factors, the stars seem aligned to get there.  After that, with their next 6 games being the Packers, Ravens, Saints, Falcons, Rams, and Seahawks, it is anyone's guess what their final record will be.  But 10-0 getting ready to host the Packers would not shock me. 

« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 02:19:00 PM by bosk1 »
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1027 on: October 16, 2019, 10:30:11 AM »
49ers vs. Panthers:  The Panthers are hot, no doubt about it.  BUT what they do on offense plays to the 49ers' strengths.  The 49ers D can key on McCaffrey and shut down the run with their dominant front 7.  Yeah, they'll give up some yards and some points.  But I don't think it'll be enough for Carolina to pull out the win on the road.  And their defense has been horrid.  A merely average 49ers offensive performance should get it done.  The main concern I have is that the 49ers special teams could come up short in a close game if Gould and the new long snapper don't get their issues hammered out.
???

Carolinas's defense is # 1 in the NFL in sacks, and tied for 3rd in TO differential, and Luke Kuechly is tied for first in the league in tackles, while other players are among the league leaders in interceptions and sacks.  Not sure how that gets them marked as "horrid".  I agree that there are certainly multiple defenses that are better, but they aren't "horrid".
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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. bracing for epic Redskins/Dolphins game in Week 6
« Reply #1028 on: October 16, 2019, 10:54:37 AM »
drivel

It's funny that you keep calling them the Aints while your Pop Warner team can't buy a win and has only beaten glorified FCS teams and mine just keeps stackin Ws with a backup QB. Just abandon the sorry attempts at smack talk and look forward to little D's inevitable wasting of whatever talent they end up drafting with their likely very high first round pick in 2020.

Talk about drivel. :lol  It isn't my problem you can't grasp a simple concept that happens to be absolutely true.  How many championships do the Ain'ts have anyway?  You can only count them on one finger.  Get 4 more and then you'll have room to talk trash, which you started BTW.  Oh yeah, and who's headcoach was suspended for an entire season because of cheating the season before?  Go back down to the valley man.  :\

I'll buy you a Delorean so you can go back to when your pathetic team mattered. Bragging about old titles just confirms y'all have done squat in the last 24 years. I would feel sorry for Cowboys fans since they have to go all Al Bundy and 4TDs in one game at Polk High about their Jurassic era titles but they're generally so smug and delusional that it becomes entertaining just watching them foam at the mouth about stuff that happened during Clinton's first term. Tell me, what do you actually hang your hat on this side of 2000?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1029 on: October 16, 2019, 10:57:02 AM »
Sorry for oversimplifying.  I haven't done any in-depth analysis of their D.  But I'm getting a lot of that from the fact that they've given up MORE than double the amount of points the 49ers defense has.  And they have not exactly been playing against offenses that light up the score board.  But we'll see.  Over the next 5 games, the Carolina game is the one I'm least sure of.

EDIT:  Josh, what is your issue?  You don't need to come in here and bait people just because you don't like their team.  You are WAY out of line here.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1030 on: October 16, 2019, 10:57:49 AM »
I know several people that have made an entire career bragging about old titties. 

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1031 on: October 16, 2019, 01:08:11 PM »
I'm spoiled.  That is all.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1032 on: October 16, 2019, 01:29:38 PM »
Sorry for oversimplifying.  I haven't done any in-depth analysis of their D.  But I'm getting a lot of that from the fact that they've given up MORE than double the amount of points the 49ers defense has.  And they have not exactly been playing against offenses that light up the score board.  But we'll see.  Over the next 5 games, the Carolina game is the one I'm least sure of.


I don't have any fundamental quibbles with your assessment, and I'd actually like to see Jimmy G. do well before he returns to New England, to take over for Brady, but I respectfully think you might be underestimating that Seattle team.  I wouldn't count out any team coached by Pete Carroll and manned by Russell Wilson.

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1033 on: October 16, 2019, 01:59:53 PM »
That Seattle-SF is going to be great. I didn't realize this stretch of the SF schedule is so putrid.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline bosk1

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1034 on: October 16, 2019, 02:24:39 PM »
...and I'd actually like to see Jimmy G. do well before he returns to New England, to take over for Brady...

:lol  You mean right around the time Mike Portnoy returns to Dream Theater to take over for Mike Mangini?

...but I respectfully think you might be underestimating that Seattle team.  I wouldn't count out any team coached by Pete Carroll and manned by Russell Wilson.

I don't think I'm underestimating them at all.  I'm NOT counting them out.  But I did say why I think the 49ers are the better team, and I stand by that.  Against 4 common opponents, the 49ers performed better on both sides of the ball.  That doesn't indicate that the 49ers are a lock.  But I like their chances.  Show me something that contradicts what I wrote. 
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Offline bosk1

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1035 on: October 16, 2019, 02:27:23 PM »
That Seattle-SF is going to be great. I didn't realize this stretch of the SF schedule is so putrid.

Yup.  Even if they ultimately don't end up being as good as everyone thinks they are right now, barring the wheels completely falling off, they are virtually a lock to get into the playoffs.  I don't see them being any worse over that stretch than 8-2, and I think 10-0 is a realistic possibility.  Either way, that's a great start and should give them an edge getting in even if they hit a rough patch in the latter part of the schedule.  Based on how good I think they are, I'm predicting a final record of 13-3.  A win plus or minus wouldn't not surprise me. 
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1036 on: October 16, 2019, 02:36:13 PM »
...and I'd actually like to see Jimmy G. do well before he returns to New England, to take over for Brady...

:lol  You mean right around the time Mike Portnoy returns to Dream Theater to take over for Mike Mangini?

Hey, you're closer to the band than I am.  I'm not starting any rumours!  :) :) :)

Quote
...but I respectfully think you might be underestimating that Seattle team.  I wouldn't count out any team coached by Pete Carroll and manned by Russell Wilson.

I don't think I'm underestimating them at all.  I'm NOT counting them out.  But I did say why I think the 49ers are the better team, and I stand by that.  Against 4 common opponents, the 49ers performed better on both sides of the ball.  That doesn't indicate that the 49ers are a lock.  But I like their chances.  Show me something that contradicts what I wrote.

Oh, nothing contradicts.   I'm not arguing with you, but you did say you were least comfortable with the Carolina game.  I think I'd be least comfortable with the Seattle game.  I think Seattle is better at the intangibles than Carolina, and I think less things have to go right for Seattle to eke out a win than for Carolina.   Put it this way:  if it was the Patriots playing either team, I'd be way more worried about Seattle, even if on paper, NE beats both teams fairly convincingly.

Offline bosk1

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1037 on: October 16, 2019, 02:53:46 PM »
I'm not sure whether Seattle or Carolina are the better team.  All things being equal, I'd be more afraid of playing a team with Carroll coaching and Wilson under center than whoever Carolina has.  But I feel like, given the current rosters, Carolina matches up better against the 49ers than Seattle does. 
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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1038 on: October 16, 2019, 04:45:08 PM »
I know several people that have made an entire career bragging about old titties.

My titties are 46 1/2 years old, and even though they tend to sag (among other things) more than they used to, I'm quite proud of them!!!

Or, did you mean old titles?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1039 on: October 17, 2019, 09:12:41 AM »
So...is Buffalo any good?  I know their record says so.  But as someone who hasn't watched them at all and hasn't really heard anything out here about how they have been playing, I have no idea.  Even judging from the scores of their games, it's hard to say.  They seem to have just barely beaten some bad teams.  But then again, the score was very close when they lost to the Pats.  Any thoughts from those more in the know?
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1040 on: October 17, 2019, 09:48:23 AM »
My opinion?  Good not great.  They're going to have a decent record this year, because they have a decent schedule, but I wasn't blown away by them in the one game I saw (against the Pats).  I know what the score was, but that's not always the be-all, end-all.  Did losing Allen hurt them or inspire them to be better (that's my take)?  Was the Titans game indicative of their strength, or indicative of a 2-3 team under performing, as they arguably have all year?

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1041 on: October 17, 2019, 10:01:56 AM »
Their defense is excellent.  No QB though so they can make the playoffs but won't go far.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1042 on: October 17, 2019, 10:23:50 AM »
The Bills are a 9- or 10-win team that will likely get knocked out quickly in the first round (unless they face the Texans and Bill O'Doofus throws up on himself).

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1043 on: October 17, 2019, 07:46:31 PM »
Mahomes looks to have dislocated his knee on a QB sneak, is done for the night, and likely for a while.  Not good for the Chiefs or the league.

Meanwhile, the Chiefs shitty defense has somehow sacked Flacco 47 times already. :facepalm: :facepalm:

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1044 on: October 17, 2019, 07:58:09 PM »
And the path gets easier.   Crazy.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1045 on: October 17, 2019, 08:07:33 PM »
Of course Mahomes gets hurt on a QB sneak. &$#gz34!! Talk about a No Fun League. Brady tries sneaks all the time and the stupid linemen never step on his leg. aaarrggggghhhhh

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1046 on: October 17, 2019, 08:44:12 PM »
It's the avacado ice cream. 
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1047 on: October 17, 2019, 08:54:11 PM »
Also lol at how bad Flacco sucks. 6 pts against the porous Chiefs defense  :rollin

Offline black_biff_stadler

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1048 on: October 20, 2019, 12:43:50 PM »
Man, just saw that it's an all NFC East game on Sunday Night Football. I swear we get more of these types of games than any other divisional matchup and the games are, by large majority, clunkers. It's baffling how the NFL continues to make money on that compared to the money they might make on other better matchups, if they even are.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 02:20:37 PM by black_biff_stadler »
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Offline TAC

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Games still being decided by bad officiating
« Reply #1049 on: October 20, 2019, 01:36:21 PM »
Could be worse, it could be the Skins-Giants. ;D

I honestly don't mind the Cowboys on SNF. It's always different each week.

My problem is every Sunday here, the 4:00 game features the Cowboys. Every fucking week.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol