Dream Theater announces 16th Studio Album - Parasomnia

[JiM-Xtreme]

Getting the feeling now this will be a concept album in the vein of Six Degrees disc 2 (i.e not necessarily one with a definite story but in a thematic sense)

*pats self on back* - although to be fair this wasn't too much of a stretch given the information that was out there at the time 

[Northern Lion]

I didn't see the Petrucci wince, but let's get to brass tacks: Mike is right about the fans. He just is, for better or worse.

Yep, and this forum alone proves it.  As well as the comments sections on YouTube.  Personally, it's not worth my energy to be vocally critical of the bands I listen too, including DT.  But everyone manifests their passion in a different way.

[DoctorAction]

I didn't see the Petrucci wince, but let's get to brass tacks: Mike is right about the fans. He just is, for better or worse.

Oh, yeah. Agreed. I just rewatched it and he didn't wince, he laughed along, but did look slightly tense as Mike expanded on his point.

I don't prefer one style over the other, but had got used to mainly hearing from John over the last decade or so and his diplomatic disposition so it struck me as amusing.

[Trav]

Portnoy is 100% right. And over the years the whole "never enough" thing doesn't bother me like it used to, because I agree with it.

[Stadler]

Yep, and this forum alone proves it.  As well as the comments sections on YouTube.  Personally, it's not worth my energy to be vocally critical of the bands I listen too, including DT.  But everyone manifests their passion in a different way.

It's funny, because that's me. I don't like artists because they do exactly what I want, I like artists because they pursue whatever it is that drives them and oh, by the way, I can usually relate to it.  Even bands I love dearly - DT, Beatles, Kiss, Genesis - don't always do what I want them to do, but that's not their job. 

I might weigh in on what I like and what I don't, but that's more about the conversation here than anything to do with the band.  You won't catch me dead on Facebook criticizing, say, the vocals or suggesting they should get new members, and yet that happens almost on the daily. It's ridiculous, IMO.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

The fans giveth and the fans can taketh away. Double edged sword that has largely worked to amazing benefit for the band. The criticism comes with the territory. The fan base has a lot of music geeks and nerds and most of them revere these guys as the cream of the crop. It just is what it is.

If you think this is bad you should check out jazz or classical circles  we talk about opera every now and then. That consumer is one hundred times more harsh than the average DT fan.

[Dedalus]

I don't know if MP followed DT fans talking about DT in his absence, but it was much worse.

I literally only made my DTF account because it was the only civilized place to discuss DT in the MM years IMO (I knew this because I lurked on DTF for years).

[Dedalus]

The fans giveth and the fans can taketh away. Double edged sword that has largely worked to amazing benefit for the band. The criticism comes with the territory. The fan base has a lot of music geeks and nerds and most of them revere these guys as the cream of the crop. It just is what it is.

If you think this is bad you should check out jazz or classical circles  we talk about opera every now and then. That consumer is one hundred times more harsh than the average DT fan.

I've never been part of a jazz community, but I can assure you that what you said about classical music and opera is absolutely true.

I confess that I can't even see some of the flaws pointed out in incredibly harsh reviews. There were several cases where I thought "wow, that interpretation was great!" and when I read other comments it seemed like the pianist had defecated on Chopin's tomb.

[durga2112]

[Wim Kruithof]

Personally, it's not worth my energy to be vocally critical of the bands I listen too, including DT.

Same. But I am huge biased in this day and age, 'cause I solely listen to Dream Theater for a couple of years now. As a blessed father of four kids, time to spin a vinyl and really listen to music is rare. So when I have it, I'll make sure I listen to what I love most. Which is Dream Theater... and there's always an album that fits the mode and time. And as is the case with barrel-aged-craftbeers, it's getting even better over time.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Also I bet DT fans are way less critical than football fans   

[Northern Lion]

It's funny, because that's me. I don't like artists because they do exactly what I want, I like artists because they pursue whatever it is that drives them and oh, by the way, I can usually relate to it.  Even bands I love dearly - DT, Beatles, Kiss, Genesis - don't always do what I want them to do, but that's not their job. 

I might weigh in on what I like and what I don't, but that's more about the conversation here than anything to do with the band.  You won't catch me dead on Facebook criticizing, say, the vocals or suggesting they should get new members, and yet that happens almost on the daily. It's ridiculous, IMO.

Hey Stadler, I may have worded what I wrote badly (I tend to do that a lot).  I should have done a better job at putting a distinction between the discourse around the band here on DTF and other places like YouTube.  The discourse here on DTF may be critical at times, but is also usually respectful.  And I love reading everyone's opinions, including yours.  And that is thanks to the community here being a high caliber and also because of the fantastic moderators.

YouTube comments on the other hand, often have people on there being critical or mean for the sake of being critical and mean.  And although I do find value in reading the comments on YouTube and I think there is a lot fans just being fans, there is certainly a fair amount that I dismiss because their criticisms lack anything useful.

To everyone here, I didn't mean to lump DTF and YouTube comments together as if they are the same.  But after reading what I wrote, that is how it came across.

[Northern Lion]

Same. But I am huge biased in this day and age, 'cause I solely listen to Dream Theater for a couple of years now. As a blessed father of four kids, time to spin a vinyl and really listen to music is rare. So when I have it, I'll make sure I listen to what I love most. Which is Dream Theater... and there's always an album that fits the mode and time. And as is the case with barrel-aged-craftbeers, it's getting even better over time.

I completely know what you mean.  I have a bunch of kids too, and DT just scratches an itch that other bands I listen to don't.  I listen to DT way more often than anything else.  With other artists, my opinion of a certain album or song is formed fairly quickly and doesn't really change with time.  However, my opinion of DT albums and individual songs frequently changes with time.  I may not really care for a song for years, and then it suddenly "clicks" and after that I can't stop listening to it.  DT is really unique in that way, and I really love that.  It keeps my listening experience interesting and it keeps me coming back.

[hefdaddy42]

If you think this is bad you should check out jazz or classical circles  we talk about opera every now and then. That consumer is one hundred times more harsh than the average DT fan.

Can't speak to classical fandom (which is a wild concept lol) but you're exactly right about jazz fans.  Hell, they start out with "This isn't even really jazz" and proceed from there.

[durga2112]

Can't speak to classical fandom (which is a wild concept lol) but you're exactly right about jazz fans.  Hell, they start out with "This isn't even really jazz" and proceed from there.

Replace the word "jazz" with "Van Halen" and you've basically described DLR-era VH fans too. 

I find fandoms in general have become much more toxic over the last 10-15 years, and I don't think it's a coincidence that the same time period has also seen the rise of both social media and smartphones. That was when the last remaining barriers to accessing the internet came crashing down, and the demographics of internet users shifted from people who had at least some degree of technical knowledge to... just about everyone, really. The toxicity was always there, but it was more difficult to find 20-30 years ago (although given that "Never Enough" is nearly 20 years old now, I guess DT fans really are a special bunch - we were way ahead of the curve compared to other bands, genres, and forms of media  )

[Stadler]

Durga, I think about this a lot.  I have a theory - at east here in America, anyway - that we're an incredibly insecure society.  Social media is jam-packed with curated feeds that only show the best of whatever that poster wants to share.  We get lavish sunsets and seemingly-extravagant vacations, and the rest of us realize our view is a freeway, and our vacation was a weekend in a cabin in western Massachusetts and it weighs on you after a while.

When you're insecure what do you have?  Not much, but your opinions.  And so opinions start to take on a weight of their own.  Opinions are affirmation, "likes" are an affirmation, and it makes us feel better about ourselves.  I'm not a huge social media guy, and literally do not post on things like "X" at all, but I remember early on joining and posting something and getting like 100 likes and it was INTOXICATING.  So when one's very existence is tied to an opinion, the music one likes, the car one drives, one becomes very protective of that. Politics, I can see, because one can argue that it impacts all of us, but music?  For the love of God, I can't IMAGINE ever fighting or calling someone "an insufferable cunt" (see the other thread) over music.  Are you kidding me? 

[Max Kuehnau]

Can't speak to classical fandom (which is a wild concept lol) but you're exactly right about jazz fans.  Hell, they start out with "This isn't even really jazz" and proceed from there.

and the irony is (in my observation, both as a fan of some jazz players and because I played in jazz fusion bands and big bands and I do record some jazz fusion too in my studio), most of those jazz players that are considered to be great (like Herbie Hancock or Chick Corea or Miles Davis) would never be this elitist. Ever. (I do my best not to either btw) Some exceptions of course (Wynton Marsalis being one of them) but you get the idea

[Max Kuehnau]

Durga, I think about this a lot.  I have a theory - at east here in America, anyway - that we're an incredibly insecure society.  Social media is jam-packed with curated feeds that only show the best of whatever that poster wants to share.  We get lavish sunsets and seemingly-extravagant vacations, and the rest of us realize our view is a freeway, and our vacation was a weekend in a cabin in western Massachusetts and it weighs on you after a while.

When you're insecure what do you have?  Not much, but your opinions.  And so opinions start to take on a weight of their own.  Opinions are affirmation, "likes" are an affirmation, and it makes us feel better about ourselves.  I'm not a huge social media guy, and literally do not post on things like "X" at all, but I remember early on joining and posting something and getting like 100 likes and it was INTOXICATING.  So when one's very existence is tied to an opinion, the music one likes, the car one drives, one becomes very protective of that. Politics, I can see, because one can argue that it impacts all of us, but music?  For the love of God, I can't IMAGINE ever fighting or calling someone "an insufferable cunt" (see the other thread) over music.  Are you kidding me? 

yeah I know. I've been called that more often than I can remember (not here of course). Strange concept.

[hefdaddy42]

and the irony is (in my observation, both as a fan of some jazz players and because I played in jazz fusion bands and big bands and I do record some jazz fusion too in my studio), most of those jazz players that are considered to be great (like Herbie Hancock or Chick Corea or Miles Davis) would never be this elitist. Ever. 

You're exactly right.

[durga2112]

For the love of God, I can't IMAGINE ever fighting or calling someone "an insufferable cunt" (see the other thread) over music.  Are you kidding me?

Oh wow. I just did a quick search because I wasn't aware of that development (it was in a thread that I've been staying out of in an attempt to avoid setlist spoilers*), and... yeah, I'm pretty much speechless here.

Trolls are nothing new to the internet, but I feel that the volume of them and the lengths to which they will go has increased dramatically over time.

* at this point, I feel like there are only a handful of songs I don't know are in the setlist, so I'm not entirely sure if there's a point in still trying to avoid them 

[WilliamMunny]

Being the fan of long-form discussion that I am, I've been checking out forum-style sites for years, and I can honestly say that DTF is a HUGE cut above when it comes to respect and courtesy.

Anyone who thinks otherwise should go hangout on Reddit for a couple of weeks

[Dream Team]

Enjoyed the interview, nothing really that new but . . . why in the heck don't they involve the singer when writing vocal melodies? I don't get it.

[hefdaddy42]

and the irony is (in my observation, both as a fan of some jazz players and because I played in jazz fusion bands and big bands and I do record some jazz fusion too in my studio), most of those jazz players that are considered to be great (like Herbie Hancock or Chick Corea or Miles Davis) would never be this elitist. Ever. (I do my best not to either btw) Some exceptions of course (Wynton Marsalis being one of them) but you get the idea

LOL  you will appreciate this.

I literally just walked down to my mailbox and my new issue of Downbeat magazine arrived.  The cover story is that with this issue's 89th annual Reader's Poll, John McLaughlin enters the Hall of Fame.

John McLaughlin?  Only NOW entering their Hall of Fame?  Really?

[durga2112]

Enjoyed the interview, nothing really that new but . . . why in the heck don't they involve the singer when writing vocal melodies? I don't get it.

I guess if it ain't broke, don't fix it? I found that odd as well, but this is obviously what works for them, and I almost invariably like the end product, so who am I to say what's weird and what's not when it comes to songwriting (something I simply cannot do to save my life, by the way - the last time I thought I had a really cool, original melody worked out on guitar, it turned out to just be the opening to "Don't Stop Believin'"  )?

[YngVai]

In defense of us jazz bois, I think the more advanced you become the more open your mind and ears become. Maybe I would see that among college kids that are just figuring their shit out and trying to fake like they know what's up.

After finishing school and eventually moving to a heavier jazz city, I found that the interests of actual working jazz musicians were all over the map. Once you dig into the music enough, your realize how integral the porous nature of the music is to the development of the genre.

That's me speaking as a performer rather than just a "fan," but let's be honest, how many jazz fans don't play in the year 2024?

[Max Kuehnau]

LOL  you will appreciate this.

I literally just walked down to my mailbox and my new issue of Downbeat magazine arrived.  The cover story is that with this issue's 89th annual Reader's Poll, John McLaughlin enters the Hall of Fame.

John McLaughlin?  Only NOW entering their Hall of Fame?  Really?

yeah it's absurd. (and how can we not love him)  But then again, Rolling Stone notoriously hate Toto and so I'm not too surprised 

[TheCountOfNYC]

Enjoyed the interview, nothing really that new but . . . why in the heck don't they involve the singer when writing vocal melodies? I don't get it.

I could have sworn MP said the vocal melody writing process involved him, JP, JR, and JLB. I could have also misheard though, as I am prone to doing that.

[Northern Lion]

Enjoyed the interview, nothing really that new but . . . why in the heck don't they involve the singer when writing vocal melodies? I don't get it.

You may have missed it in the interview, but they do involve James when writing melodies. Mike Portnoy said they have a melody writing session where he, John, Jordan and James sit down together to hash out the melodies.  If you'd like to find it, Mike talks about it at the 13:01 mark in the interview.

[hefdaddy42]

how many jazz fans don't play in the year 2024?

Well, me, so there's one lol

I mean, I can play a little on guitar and drums, but I got into jazz much later.  No way I can play that stuff.  But I love listening to it.  And I love how large the label is, and how many different styles and musicians it encompasses.  I feel like I've learned SO MUCH and yet there is still SO MUCH to learn lol

[Max Kuehnau]

yeah, constantly (which btw is also something the greats do, they never stop evolving)

[WilliamMunny]

Well, me, so there's one lol

I mean, I can play a little on guitar and drums, but I got into jazz much later.  No way I can play that stuff.  But I love listening to it.  And I love how large the label is, and how many different styles and musicians it encompasses.  I feel like I've learned SO MUCH and yet there is still SO MUCH to learn lol

That is the thing with Jazz, specifically, that never ceases to amaze me.

Every. Single. Album. feels like the tip of a never-ending iceberg.

I'll never forget the mix of excitement and dread I felt when I fell in love with Miles Davis' In a Silent Way (per a friend's suggestion), and then realized that he had something like 60 studio albums (and counting) in his catalog.

That 'where do I begin' feeling is the thing that keeps me feeling like a 19-year-old novice every time I dip my toe into the edge of the Jazz pool.

With over a century of recorded music and more sub-genres than there is space to list, it really is a universe all its own.

[Stadler]

And (to me) Miles is one of those transcendent artists like Zappa, Neil Young, or Springsteen, whereby if you know and love one album, it doesn't necessarily follow that you will like the one before or the one after. I'm not a jazz guy, but even I know that "A Kind Of Blue" and "Bitches Brew" aren't really two of a kind.

[WilliamMunny]

And (to me) Miles is one of those transcendent artists like Zappa, Neil Young, or Springsteen, whereby if you know and love one album, it doesn't necessarily follow that you will like the one before or the one after. I'm not a jazz guy, but even I know that "A Kind Of Blue" and "Bitches Brew" aren't really two of a kind.

You couldn't be more right there.

What's really interesting about Miles is all of the separate groups he assembled, and by proxy, all of the other musicians he played with and/or helped establish.

The list is long and star-studded.

[illusionist]

Yeah,we do have a new album coming up called Parasomnia.

[WilliamMunny]

Yeah,we do have a new album coming up called Parasomnia.

Yeah, sorry, I swear I'm not 'trying' to derail