Dream Theater announces 16th Studio Album - Parasomnia

[TAC]

This is an important point.

And I've said it before, I don't even think it's MP's responsibility to worry about these songs. It should be the responsibility of the other four guys.

Well, like I said, you're probably only getting one on the Parasomnia proper tour.

[Max Kuehnau]

Maybe to Max and some other drummers out there they may notice the difference, but I probably won't notice much of a difference. I think MP is wise enough to know to play something tasteful/appropriate for the songs that he does tackle.

I beg to differ. While I don't expect them to ever do a setlist with 4 or 5 MM-era songs, don't forget that MP is a fan of bands, and coming from that angle, he knows that fans are going to want to hear stuff from other eras of bands just as he would. And he can especially relate to JL and JR now who have to perform songs that they weren't a part of, yet they still do it. So I would expect that on most tours, there will be at least 1 or 2 MM-era songs in the setlist.

Again, I disagree. JP knows that's something that MP has always been very passionate about, and since it wasn't a high priority for JP, he was willing to cede control of it back to MP. Plus he knows that MP has a better pulse on the fan base's interests and will come up with setlists more likely to draw the fans.

That being said, and while nothing has been specifically said publicly, how do you know that JP didn't give MP the stipulation when giving him control of the setlist that MP can't ignore the MM-era or that at least one or two MM-era songs need to be included in each setlist? In a personal e-mail I sent to JP when the news broke about MP's return, I asked him about that, and while he didn't get into any specifics, he did tell me the MM-era would not be ignored. So while I doubt we'll see 50% of the MM-era be included in the setlist for the remaining years DT is active, I still think a decent chunk of it will get represented in subsequent tours.
 
 What were these things? Because I got the opposite impression, where he said a couple of times that he hunkered down and did his homework about these songs. I believe you noticed something, maybe he goes back and forth or something, but I only noticed the other way around! It's JP who is all about "we survived and won a Grammy" now, in order to focus on the brand with MP. It's MP who referred to the albums as "the albums with Mike Mangini" in the interview with Ola while JP phrased that in some other roundabout way.

Exactly. While I doubt MP is going to listen to any of those albums for fun, now that he's back in the band, as part of his job he needs to set aside personal feelings. And a big part of why he was so sensitive about those albums was because he wasn't in the band at the time. Now that he's back in the band, I think those sensitivities have mellowed a bit. Part of that is because he is older and more mature now, but also I'm sure he can better see it from the rest of the band's standpoint that they wanted to continue and had every right to while he went off to do his own thing.

sorry mate, I can't do anything about the way I hear. I know very well that it can be a blessing and a curse as it were. (I see where you're coming from though, and indeed anyone who might not notice any difference. I also have nothing against some people wanting to hear his take on MM era pieces, like Progmaniac. We're all here to enjoy their work after all, I'm not different to anyone else in that respect  )

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

What were these things? Because I got the opposite impression, where he said a couple of times that he hunkered down and did his homework about these songs. I believe you noticed something, maybe he goes back and forth or something, but I only noticed the other way around! It's JP who is all about "we survived and won a Grammy" now, in order to focus on the brand with MP. It's MP who referred to the albums as "the albums with Mike Mangini" in the interview with Ola while JP phrased that in some other roundabout way.

Yeah I think JP and JR are using the word 'survived' as message sculpting or marketing if you will about the current lineup and what they're going to do in the future together.

In regard to the other thing, you got one of them. MP is a very straight shooter so nothing about that strikes me as odd. It's what you note about JP's phrase. He won't even utter the name Mike Mangini any longer and my personal opinion on that is it is because he knows it does sting MP on some level to think about that period when he wasn't there.

I'll PM you on the other thing I've noticed. I don't want to post it here and derail the thread and start a shitstorm. 

[Max Kuehnau]

Yeah I think JP and JR are using the word 'survived' as message sculpting or marketing if you will about the current lineup and what they're going to do in the future together.

In regard to the other thing, you got one of them. MP is a very straight shooter so nothing about that strikes me as odd. It's what you note about JP's phrase. He won't even utter the name Mike Mangini any longer and my personal opinion on that is it is because he knows it does sting MP on some level to think about that period when he wasn't there.

I'll PM you on the other thing I've noticed. I don't want to post it here and derail the thread and start a shitstorm. 

that made me laugh so much just now, thanks very much 

[durga2112]

I'll PM you on the other thing I've noticed. I don't want to post it here and derail the thread and start a shitstorm. 

Any chance you could PM me as well? Either that or start another thread about it, since I'm sure I'm not the only one who's noticed that this thread has strayed pretty far off topic recently. 

On that note, we are now a mere 70 days from the release of Parasomnia! Does anyone think we'll be getting a new single this year (maybe at 6:00 on Christmas morning?), or is January looking more likely?

[Max Kuehnau]

my guess (guess, right) is that we 'll get one in early December (so, soon ish) and then maybe one the week before the release date, so late January. Of course, I don't know, because I couldn't (if that makes sense)

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Maybe to Max and some other drummers out there they may notice the difference, but I probably won't notice much of a difference. I think MP is wise enough to know to play something tasteful/appropriate for the songs that he does tackle.

I beg to differ. While I don't expect them to ever do a setlist with 4 or 5 MM-era songs, don't forget that MP is a fan of bands, and coming from that angle, he knows that fans are going to want to hear stuff from other eras of bands just as he would. And he can especially relate to JL and JR now who have to perform songs that they weren't a part of, yet they still do it. So I would expect that on most tours, there will be at least 1 or 2 MM-era songs in the setlist.

Again, I disagree. JP knows that's something that MP has always been very passionate about, and since it wasn't a high priority for JP, he was willing to cede control of it back to MP. Plus he knows that MP has a better pulse on the fan base's interests and will come up with setlists more likely to draw the fans.

That being said, and while nothing has been specifically said publicly, how do you know that JP didn't give MP the stipulation when giving him control of the setlist that MP can't ignore the MM-era or that at least one or two MM-era songs need to be included in each setlist? In a personal e-mail I sent to JP when the news broke about MP's return, I asked him about that, and while he didn't get into any specifics, he did tell me the MM-era would not be ignored. So while I doubt we'll see 50% of the MM-era be included in the setlist for the remaining years DT is active, I still think a decent chunk of it will get represented in subsequent tours.
 
 What were these things? Because I got the opposite impression, where he said a couple of times that he hunkered down and did his homework about these songs. I believe you noticed something, maybe he goes back and forth or something, but I only noticed the other way around! It's JP who is all about "we survived and won a Grammy" now, in order to focus on the brand with MP. It's MP who referred to the albums as "the albums with Mike Mangini" in the interview with Ola while JP phrased that in some other roundabout way.

Exactly. While I doubt MP is going to listen to any of those albums for fun, now that he's back in the band, as part of his job he needs to set aside personal feelings. And a big part of why he was so sensitive about those albums was because he wasn't in the band at the time. Now that he's back in the band, I think those sensitivities have mellowed a bit. Part of that is because he is older and more mature now, but also I'm sure he can better see it from the rest of the band's standpoint that they wanted to continue and had every right to while he went off to do his own thing.

I could see 1 maybe 2 at most, I think that's right but for reasons Dedalus pointed out, the vast majority of those songs are likely retired. Maybe it isn't 98% but it's not that far off if you think it'll be 1 song per future tour. And realistically, if there are 0 MM era songs on future tours are you going to be shocked? It could be thought of as part of his job to respond to fan desires if he senses they want X song from MM's tenure...I just don't know that he thinks of it that way. No one is going to tell him he isn't doing his job if he just decides he'd rather stick to his own era.

On the other thing, JP seemed really eager to get rid of the setlist responsibility, rather than really happy for MP to enjoy himself putting them together. It's just my read on the way he talked about it in interviews.

[illusionist]

First of all, about the second single durga2112 asked above, there are rumors that it'll be released on Tuesday (yes, 4 days from now)
I have seen it on Reddit and Instagram.
I don't have any reason to not believe it, even though i won't be listening (as i didn't listen to Night terror either)
It will be 55 days since the first single release and it makes a lot of sense now.

On another note, about Parasomnia as an album in general.
The press release said
'Night terror is out now and it's the first glimpse into Parasomnia, an album that represents not just our past, but our future'

What might 'representing their future' mean?
Do they write differently now? As far as i know that's not the case, they did what they always have done.
In which ways this new album paves the way for their future?
Do they mean they want to release more thematic albums in the future, or that they have already thought DT17 to be linked to Parasomnia in some way?

That would be a very interesting question to be handed to the guys for them to answer.

[Schurftkut]

their future, as in this is the final line-up. Don't overthink it 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

their future, as in this is the final line-up. Don't overthink it 

This.

[durga2112]

Well, my birthday is on Wednesday, so if the single really comes out the day before, that would be awesome! 

If I had to guess about the past/future statement, I would say it's just marketing speak for an original member being back in the band, and that this will be the lineup going forward. However, if they are indeed thinking ahead to the next album already, that would be really cool - although given some of the things that they said about the meta-album cycle and the 12 step suite after those things had concluded, I'd be surprised to hear that they're already kind of boxing themselves in like that.

Although who knows, maybe we'll find out that "The Shadow Man Incident" has a subtitle like "Book I" or something, and there's already a follow-up planned. Again, it doesn't seem likely to me, but I'd be completely on board with something like that!

[Max Kuehnau]

of course we don't know if they were to do this this time around, but if you remember, John started working on The Astonishing right when they finished recording DT12. That wasn't a common thing, I know, but it happened.

[Progmaniac1988]

I'm thinking night terror will sit in much better as a full album experience. With the overture and following track. I think it'll be more appreciated when the full album is out. (Although I do love the track as a standalone too.)

[Max Kuehnau]

I'm thinking night terror will sit in much better as a full album experience. With the overture and following track. I think it'll be more appreciated when the full album is out. (Although I do love the track as a standalone too.)

which is one sign of a good piece

[Wim Kruithof]

BAI, BITS, LNF, OTBOA, BTS
TEI, TLG, BTV, STR, IT
FITL, BW, S2N, AWE
TA, SG, ATM, AVFTTOTW

If I hate anything on Dream Theater Forum, it's figuring out al those darn abbreviations.

[Max Kuehnau]

such is life over here 

[Dedalus]

If I hate anything on Dream Theater Forum, it's figuring out al those darn abbreviations.

 

[Setlist Scotty]

I could see 1 maybe 2 at most, I think that's right but for reasons Dedalus pointed out, the vast majority of those songs are likely retired. Maybe it isn't 98% but it's not that far off if you think it'll be 1 song per future tour. And realistically, if there are 0 MM era songs on future tours are you going to be shocked? It could be thought of as part of his job to respond to fan desires if he senses they want X song from MM's tenure...I just don't know that he thinks of it that way. No one is going to tell him he isn't doing his job if he just decides he'd rather stick to his own era.

Don't be so sure about that. Again, we don't know what was said between the two of them, but I could see JP requesting that one or two MM-era songs be included in every setlist. And in at least a fwe different interviews, MP has stated that he is willing to listen to the other band members' input regarding the setlist, which I think for the most part is very different from the way it used to be. So I can imagine one or more of the guys getting the itch to include something from one or two of the MM-era albums and asking MP to include it in the setlist.

On the other thing, JP seemed really eager to get rid of the setlist responsibility, rather than really happy for MP to enjoy himself putting them together. It's just my read on the way he talked about it in interviews.

I don't know if he was eager to get rid of that responsibility so much as it was just another task he had taken on that wasn't a priority for him, and since he knew it was something MP loved doing, he had no problem relinquishing it.

[MoraWintersoul]

A lot of songs in their entire catalog are probably retired and will never be played again. Statistically, that is just what will happen. There's probably only one or two songs off Parasomnia that will ever be played again after this album tour, and that will be a recent album with MP in the lineup.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

There aren't really any MP era songs that I can think of that are retired except maybe something unpopular on FII.

[Max Kuehnau]

which btw, I was surprised to see them playing the first version of Hollow Years on this tour again (meaning not the album version). IIRC, I only saw them play it once on the 6D tour (which also surprised me quite a bit back then even)

[Wim Kruithof]

which btw, I was surprised to see them playing the first version of Hollow Years on this tour again (meaning not the album version). IIRC, I only saw them play it once on the 6D tour (which also surprised me quite a bit back then even)

The '96 demo, I especially enjoyed that version.

[MirrorMask]

BTW, since this after all is the Parasomnia thread, yesterday I was watching an episode of American Horror Stories (anthology series to not be confused with the "main" series, American Horror Story singular), and in an episode about "monsters under the bed" the protagonist said she was suffering from a parasomnia disorder. I probably didn't even know that such a word existed, and of course now that DT names an album like that, it pops up elsewhere 

[Progmaniac1988]

which btw, I was surprised to see them playing the first version of Hollow Years on this tour again (meaning not the album version). IIRC, I only saw them play it once on the 6D tour (which also surprised me quite a bit back then even)

Yeah lol, I mean I love that they dug up the demo version, but I'm sure when Labrie says "sing along!" And that extra bridge before the chorus happens I'm sure there are a few attendees like "huh?" Lol

[Setlist Scotty]

which btw, I was surprised to see them playing the first version of Hollow Years on this tour again (meaning not the album version). IIRC, I only saw them play it once on the 6D tour (which also surprised me quite a bit back then even)

Except it's not the first/demo/96 version. Yes, it includes the pre-chorus that wasn't in the album version, but otherwise it's more like the '04 version on L@B. And even then, with the pre-chorus readded as well as the even more lengthy intro and outro than the '04 version, I prefer to refer to this current version as the '09 version, since this is the same way they played it on the Prog Nation '09/BCaSL tour.

[TAC]

I prefer to refer to this current version as the '09 version,

Definitely. We got it here in '09 and it was awesome to see JP's solo up close.
That was the song made MP made a face at The Lovely Mrs TAC.

[Dedalus]

Except it's not the first/demo/96 version. Yes, it includes the pre-chorus that wasn't in the album version, but otherwise it's more like the '04 version on L@B. And even then, with the pre-chorus readded as well as the even more lengthy intro and outro than the '04 version, I prefer to refer to this current version as the '09 version, since this is the same way they played it on the Prog Nation '09/BCaSL tour.

Exactly. I remember when they played this on the BCSL tour I asked a few people who were there if they noticed anything different and they said no lol.

I don't think Hollow Years is a song that general fans pay much attention to.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Potentially unpopular opinion: I wish MP would get over his aversion to the final version of FII. The album is almost 30 years old, and during the 13 years he wasn't in the band to push the alternative versions of all of the songs, fans got more familiar with the album proper, which they were already more familiar with to begin with. He always talked so negatively about that album, but if it wasn't for the record label interference, Metropolis Pt. 2 would have stayed as a single song and Derek might still be in the band, meaning we would have never gotten their most iconic lineup and album. It all worked out, and if he would look at it from a more positive perspective, he might see that a lot of the songs on the album proper are honestly better. Lines in the Sand especially was a mess in its original state. Falling Into Infinity has always been my least favorite DT album, but there's some gems on there, and IMO the album proper is still better than the demo version.

[TAC]

Falling Into Infinity has always been my least favorite DT album, but there's some gems on there, and IMO the album proper is still better than the demo version.

I think the choices they made for FII were spot on for the most part. I actually don't care for the DEmo's prechorus in HY. It's like a speedbump in the track. That said, HY on FII is probably a bottom 20 DT track for me, but the '04 Budoakan version with JP's solo and extended outro make it a Top 20 song.

[noxon]

For most parts, i prefer the FII we ended up with. The demo versions are interesting artifacts, but they are not the versions I listen to when i want to listen to a recording of a song.

[TAC]

For most parts, i prefer the FII we ended up with. The demo versions are interesting artifacts, but they are not the versions I listen to when i want to listen to a recording of a song.

Exactly. I think between the demo and the Fix For '96, there's a slightly heavier TAMP, but it's not anything I seek out.

And Score has now rendered to demo version of Raise The Knife useless.

[MirrorMask]

Yeah count me in among those who consider Kevin Shirley's suggestions as the most fitting ones.

I like Hollow Years as we got it in this tour - heck, it was the unsuspected highlight of the evening, alongside Octavarium. But the FII version is good as it is, the bridge streamlined leads more easily into the chorus.

Burning My Soul didn't need to meander on for some minutes in the middle, just keep it as a straight rocker. And let's all remember that if the instrumental section was not lifted from the song, we never would have gotten Hell's Kitchen and specifically the second half of the song which is great.

You Not Me... it's not their best song, but if you're attempting to have a "radio hit" or whatever, the chorus Desmond Child came up with is more catchy. Side note - they got a hitmaker and they never bothered to give some commercial chance to You Not Me? again, not their best song, but if you want to have an easy listening song just commit to it and get it around, you know?

[Dedalus]

I don't understand the choice of songs that would be included and those that would be cut.

There is talk of the need for songs that are a little more accessible and commercial, which ends up resulting in Desmond Child's participation. OK, but they cut songs with good commercial potential like Speak to Me and Cover My Eyes to include YNM and TAMP, which never had any chance of fulfilling their role as more accessible tracks (despite the theme of TAMP's lyrics).

Speaking of TAMP, I could never understand the arrangement of the final version of this song. I find it inexplicable (and terrible).

Another decision that doesn't add much is Doug Pinnick's participation in LITS.

I like the ideia of removing HK from BMS, because I hate BMS and if I want to listen to HK I don't need to listen to BMS  .

And here we are, discussing the FII in the new album thread. 

[wolfking]

I have actually never bothered to listen to the FII demos for some reason.

[Jamesman42]

I have actually never bothered to listen to the FII demos for some reason.

Same. I have zero desire to, either.