Dream Theater announces 16th Studio Album - Parasomnia

[Trav]

It's not only a 40th tour- it's a reunion tour celebrating Portnoy being back, and the band knew a lot of people would come see them for this reason alone. And that means a lot of people not necessarily hardcore fans. IMO, I think the setlist as it stands is very good in creating a very engaging show for the fan and the casual attendee alike..

Exactly. I think this is a concept that some fans can't seem to grasp.

[Dream Team]

I never saw him before. and 1000 posts is nothin'

He's been in multiple threads that you have posted in.

Which med did you omit today?

[Dedalus]

He's been in multiple threads that you have posted in.

Which med did you omit today?

This thread was started by noxon.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

When I was new I started many threads too

[Rammstein]

I would prefer the release of the next single to be closer to the album release. Otherwise, I'll be tempted to listen to the song on repeat again so it is not fresh upon listening to the entire album

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I would prefer the release of the next single to be closer to the album release. Otherwise, I'll be tempted to listen to the song on repeat again so it is not fresh upon listening to the entire album

I can't think of a time when listening to the single beforehand diminished my experience of the entire album but I guess you should be ready to listen to the next one on repeat!

[Jamesman42]

I can't imagine looking at this setlist and saying "this isn't good enough". I have seen many of those songs live and I would still love to see this list. Well, a little less SFAM though.

[TAC]

Well, a little less SFAM though.

So...not good enough? 

[Jamesman42]

So...not good enough? 

No, it's never enough.

[evilasiojr]

So it seems we have some of the songs from the album kinda figured out from the infos so far.

In The Arms of Morpheus is the overture intro; Night Terror, first single, we all heard already; supposedly the next single A Broken Man, heaviest song in the album, maybe the 8th string guitar song, although ATM was more progressive than I anticipated; according to Noxon Are We Dreaming? is a sound effect song and Bend The Clock is the power ballad of the album; The Shadow Man Incident is the 20 min epic.

Dead Asleep and Midnight Messiah remain the ones we know the less, I was very curious about both. Dead Asleep seems like the 10 min epic, the longest song besides the 20 min epic, usually a kind of song I really like by the band; Midnight Messiah interested me from the title. Let's see! Excitement is rising!

[Wim Kruithof]

I never saw him before. and 1000 posts is nothin'

When it comes to noxon, it's quality over quantity.

[Max Kuehnau]

I think it's probably because he thinks MP would be doing those songs a disservice compared to Mangini's original performances.

(Edit: sorry, yes, as Progmaniac said; missed it.)

exactly. There is a lot of thought in MM's drum parts, they work the way they do for that reason and you have to follow them precisely to make them work. MP's looser approach to playing is not what works with MM's material, ever

[Dream Team]

When I was new I started many threads too

That's missing the point - THIS THREAD was started by someone you said you never heard of.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

That's missing the point - THIS THREAD was started by someone you said you never heard of.

That's correct. I've been in threads you started and I know nothing about you other than you like to follow me around and make fun of me. It's been easy to ignore but it still happens! 

[Setlist Scotty]

That's missing the point - THIS THREAD was started by someone you said you never heard of.

That's because he's too busy starting more threads of his own. 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

exactly. There is a lot of thought in MM's drum parts, they work the way they do for that reason and you have to follow them precisely to make them work. MP's looser approach to playing is not what works with MM's material, ever

I'm with you on that. It's just not the same and there are actually tangible things to point to in the MM songs that have been done on this tour where it just doesn't do the original justice. I love most of the songs over the last 5 albums but a lot of them just wouldn't be right. This is the Life is fine and maybe I can think of a few others that are low demand and could work. But a song like View or even ATC where we don't have an official release? It's better to just stick to the Mangini bootlegs than to get something that'll completely miss the mark.

[Max Kuehnau]

Naaaaah, Max prefers MM, so I'm pretty sure he just doesn't want MP to play his parts not to his liking lol I for one love MP's takes on the songs so far! Bring on more! (Still love ya Max) lol)

why thank you, much appreciated.  (although what you mean doesn't have to do with my personal liking, it's about doing the music justice. Bit of a difference.

[Progmaniac1988]

why thank you, much appreciated.  (although what you mean doesn't have to do with my personal liking, it's about doing the music justice. Bit of a difference.

I completely understand dude, especially if you really love the way a part is performed. It can be extremely disappointing seeing it changed or not played faithful to the recording. So even tho we have differing opinions that don't mean I don't understand your stance on it ya know?

Although as a MP fan I can admit sometimes when he would change even his own parts live or lazy up a bass drum pattern I'd be like "come on dude!" lol but I gotta say he sounds more consistent on this current tour. This has his spontaneous nature, but I noticed him playing more exact to his own studio parts. Which is refreshing!

But back to MM parts I hope MP "takes the time" to learn the more more technical songs at least close to the studio version. Songs like breaking all illusions,otboa, illumination theory, exc. great songs that I'd hate to see disappear live. Hopefully MP adds his flavor but stays true to the original arrangement too. Has to be a balance. I love MM's drum arrangements on those mentioned songs.

[durga2112]

In all likelihood, most of the MM songs are never going to be played live again. I'd say one or two at most per tour going forward - the vast majority of those songs have likely already been played live for the final time.

[macneil]

In all likelihood, most of the MM songs are never going to be played live again. I'd say one or two at most per tour going forward - the vast majority of those songs have likely already been played live for the final time.

It is a shame, but I think this is probably correct. They had to do a couple for the 40th anniversary so as to not ignore those albums, but I don't see them highly prioritising them in future. Maybe one here and there. I personally hope Breaking All Illusions gets another chance to shine.

Even when Mangini was still in the band they rarely brought back songs on later tours, except for big ones like Breaking All Illusions or Bridges in the Sky.

[illusionist]

The fact that MP doesn't want to play the songs he was not a part of initially, doesn't justify the band to not play them anymore.
There are many many songs from that era, that i personally love and most fans really enjoy.
BAI, BITS, LNF, OTBOA, BTS
TEI, TLG, BTV, STR, IT
FITL, BW, S2N, AWE
TA, SG, ATM, AVFTTOTW

Plus, all of The Astonishing.

But i have to admit, even if they get played, i doubt they will feel natural.
MP wants to adjust the songs to his(?) liking and most probably he doesn't want to spend too much time practicing them, if at all.

So on one hand i do hope they get played again, on the other i don't know if they will sound 'properly' on a live setlist.
And by properly i don't mean technically only, i mean the vibe of the song also.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

^agreed 100%

The real elephant in the room regarding the future of those songs is that the person who now controls the set lists is the one who is the least likely to want to play these songs for numerous reasons. That fact alone probably closes the door 98% of them.

[MirrorMask]

There are so many songs that will never be played live again (not only from the Mangini era) and most of us don't realize it yet. Heck, probably even the band doesn't realize it.

I made a thread about it some years ago, songs that would never be played live again, maybe we could update it in the wake of Portnoy's return? 

[durga2112]

There are so many songs that will never be played live again (not only from the Mangini era) and most of us don't realize it yet. Heck, probably even the band doesn't realize it.

I made a thread about it some years ago, songs that would never be played live again, maybe we could update it in the wake of Portnoy's return? 

Please do! I'd like to see that thread.

And you're right - unless they do some kind of nutty "One Last Time" gimmick for their 50th anniversary tour, where they have a constantly rotating set of 5 or 6 songs that haven't been played in decades, there are many songs in their discography that won't ever be played again. But they'd never do something like that, though... right? 

[hunnus2000]

^agreed 100%

The real elephant in the room regarding the future of those songs is that the person who now controls the set lists is the one who is the least likely to want to play these songs for numerous reasons. That fact alone probably closes the door 98% of them.

I hope that's not the case and I hope he didn't day he didn't want to play songs he wasn't involved in - that would be real disappointing. MP said he wouldn't be as controlling as he was in the past. My guess is that if JP wanted to play a certain song, it would get played.

[TAC]

I'm not assuming anything regarding the MM songs. I still think they'll get some run. There's one song in each set this time around, and it may be about right.

On the Parasomnia tour where they play the album in whole, that'll be a test. I feel like there'll only be one in the non album set. Besides the full album, MP will likely only have no more than 6-8 other songs to add.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I hope that's not the case and I hope he didn't day he didn't want to play songs he wasn't involved in - that would be real disappointing. MP said he wouldn't be as controlling as he was in the past. My guess is that if JP wanted to play a certain song, it would get played.

He didn't say it but the way I see it is he has said (Eddie Trunk interview) he didn't listen to that material much because it upset him. There have been other indirect things that I have noticed that strengthen my belief he is still touchy about this 5-album period - so you have that plus is MP really going to take the time to learn these new (to him) songs? It seems like all downside and no upside for him. Say he learns Breaking All Illusions song structure and they play it. That's a lot of work to learn something that bothers you to listen to, plus he's opening himself up to people on social media nitpicking everything he does that wasn't what Mangini played. This would be similar to what happened with MM played songs he didn't write, only now the shoe would be on the other foot. My sense is that JP doesn't care or he wouldn't have eagerly thrown full control of the setlist back in Portnoy's lap.

[MoraWintersoul]

There have been other indirect things that I have noticed that strengthen my belief he is still touchy about this 5-album period

What were these things? Because I got the opposite impression, where he said a couple of times that he hunkered down and did his homework about these songs. I believe you noticed something, maybe he goes back and forth or something, but I only noticed the other way around! It's JP who is all about "we survived and won a Grammy" now, in order to focus on the brand with MP. It's MP who referred to the albums as "the albums with Mike Mangini" in the interview with Ola while JP phrased that in some other roundabout way.

[fadetoblackdude7]

I hope that's not the case, because Outcry is nearly at the top of my list of songs I really want to hear that I haven't yet heard!

[Dedalus]

My sense is that JP doesn't care or he wouldn't have eagerly thrown full control of the setlist back in Portnoy's lap.

To be honest they never seemed to care about what songs to play, what order, how many albums to represent etc. They always left it in the hands of just one person. I know that's how the band worked and all, but it always seemed to me like there were four members of the band who didn't care as much as they perhaps should.

[Setlist Scotty]

But i have to admit, even if they get played, i doubt they will feel natural.
MP wants to adjust the songs to his(?) liking and most probably he doesn't want to spend too much time practicing them, if at all.

Maybe to Max and some other drummers out there they may notice the difference, but I probably won't notice much of a difference. I think MP is wise enough to know to play something tasteful/appropriate for the songs that he does tackle.

^agreed 100%

The real elephant in the room regarding the future of those songs is that the person who now controls the set lists is the one who is the least likely to want to play these songs for numerous reasons. That fact alone probably closes the door 98% of them.

I beg to differ. While I don't expect them to ever do a setlist with 4 or 5 MM-era songs, don't forget that MP is a fan of bands, and coming from that angle, he knows that fans are going to want to hear stuff from other eras of bands just as he would. And he can especially relate to JL and JR now who have to perform songs that they weren't a part of, yet they still do it. So I would expect that on most tours, there will be at least 1 or 2 MM-era songs in the setlist.

My sense is that JP doesn't care or he wouldn't have eagerly thrown full control of the setlist back in Portnoy's lap.

Again, I disagree. JP knows that's something that MP has always been very passionate about, and since it wasn't a high priority for JP, he was willing to cede control of it back to MP. Plus he knows that MP has a better pulse on the fan base's interests and will come up with setlists more likely to draw the fans.

That being said, and while nothing has been specifically said publicly, how do you know that JP didn't give MP the stipulation when giving him control of the setlist that MP can't ignore the MM-era or that at least one or two MM-era songs need to be included in each setlist? In a personal e-mail I sent to JP when the news broke about MP's return, I asked him about that, and while he didn't get into any specifics, he did tell me the MM-era would not be ignored. So while I doubt we'll see 50% of the MM-era be included in the setlist for the remaining years DT is active, I still think a decent chunk of it will get represented in subsequent tours.
 
 

There have been other indirect things that I have noticed that strengthen my belief he is still touchy about this 5-album period

What were these things? Because I got the opposite impression, where he said a couple of times that he hunkered down and did his homework about these songs. I believe you noticed something, maybe he goes back and forth or something, but I only noticed the other way around! It's JP who is all about "we survived and won a Grammy" now, in order to focus on the brand with MP. It's MP who referred to the albums as "the albums with Mike Mangini" in the interview with Ola while JP phrased that in some other roundabout way.

Exactly. While I doubt MP is going to listen to any of those albums for fun, now that he's back in the band, as part of his job he needs to set aside personal feelings. And a big part of why he was so sensitive about those albums was because he wasn't in the band at the time. Now that he's back in the band, I think those sensitivities have mellowed a bit. Part of that is because he is older and more mature now, but also I'm sure he can better see it from the rest of the band's standpoint that they wanted to continue and had every right to while he went off to do his own thing.

[Dedalus]

I beg to differ. While I don't expect them to ever do a setlist with 4 or 5 MM-era songs, don't forget that MP is a fan of bands, and coming from that angle, he knows that fans are going to want to hear stuff from other eras of bands just as he would. And he can especially relate to JL and JR now who have to perform songs that they weren't a part of, yet they still do it. So I would expect that on most tours, there will be at least 1 or 2 MM-era songs in the setlist.

I don't know if you guys are really diverging.

Considering that there probably aren't that many DT tours left, with the 1 or 2 MM-era song rate, then the vast majority of the songs from those five albums will never be played again. Maybe not in the percentage mentioned, but if we do the math, it's easy to see that most of these songs are retired.

[TAC]

Scotty, 100% on all of that.

Maybe not in the percentage mentioned, but if we do the math, it's easy to see that most of these songs are retired.

Realistically, yeah, this is probably right, but I don't think that has anything to do with MP. Look how things were trending for the past few tours.

[Dedalus]

Well... a quick bit of elementary math.

1) Excluding "A False Awakening Suite", "Viper King" and all of TA.

2) Setting a rate of 2 MM-era songs per tour

3) Considering that the songs played would never be repeated on new tours from now on.

So we would need 8 more tours (I had to round up) to have approximately half of the songs played. Do DT still have 8 more different tours in the future?

[Dedalus]

Realistically, yeah, this is probably right, but I don't think that has anything to do with MP. Look how things were trending for the past few tours.

This is an important point.

And I've said it before, I don't even think it's MP's responsibility to worry about these songs. It should be the responsibility of the other four guys.