Dream Theater announces 16th Studio Album - Parasomnia

[Setlist Scotty]

Lines in the Sand especially was a mess in its original state. Falling Into Infinity has always been my least favorite DT album, but there's some gems on there, and IMO the album proper is still better than the demo version.

Couldn't disagree more in particular about LitS. I'll grant you that the rearranging of the first and second verses made the song better, but other than that, the demo version is far superior. I love the way they performed it in 2002, which was basically an extended version of the '96 version but with the first two verses fixed like on the album.

I feel the same with the original version of TAMP and YoM instead of YNM, and I say that as someone who preferred the original versions long before MP started to make his feelings about those songs public.

Yeah count me in among those who consider Kevin Shirley's suggestions as the most fitting ones.

I like Hollow Years as we got it in this tour - heck, it was the unsuspected highlight of the evening, alongside Octavarium. But the FII version is good as it is, the bridge streamlined leads more easily into the chorus.

You realize you just contradicted your opening statement, right? 

I don't understand the choice of songs that would be included and those that would be cut.

There is talk of the need for songs that are a little more accessible and commercial, which ends up resulting in Desmond Child's participation. OK, but they cut songs with good commercial potential like Speak to Me and Cover My Eyes to include YNM and TAMP, which never had any chance of fulfilling their role as more accessible tracks (despite the theme of TAMP's lyrics).

Speaking of TAMP, I could never understand the arrangement of the final version of this song. I find it inexplicable (and terrible).

Another decision that doesn't add much is Doug Pinnick's participation in LITS.

I like the ideia of removing HK from BMS, because I hate BMS and if I want to listen to HK I don't need to listen to BMS  .

I agree with almost everything you say in your post, although I can understand why they decided to just bring Doug in since that was the vibe they were going for. That said, I know Doug's voice isn't for everyone and Stads in particular can't handle it.

As for BMS/HK, I can go both ways. The first version of BMS I heard and got deeply ingrained into my brain was the '96 version, courtesy of a bootleg of the first Fix for '96 show. And I like that arrangement because it's not just a basic, traditional arrangement. OTOH, I do love the majestic ending of HK that they came up with in the studio, so to not have that would be a travesty as well. I guess my happy medium were the World Tourbulence shows in 2002 where both BMS '96 and the Instrumedley (which featured that second half of HK) were in the setlist. 

I have actually never bothered to listen to the FII demos for some reason.

Same. I have zero desire to, either.

I think you guys are doing yourselves a disservice by not at least giving them one listen. At the very least, you'll be more educated when these discussions come up, and at best, you might actually *enjoy* them. 

[TheCountOfNYC]

Couldn't disagree more in particular about LitS. I'll grant you that the rearranging of the first and second verses made the song better, but other than that, the demo version is far superior. I love the way they performed it in 2002, which was basically an extended version of the '96 version but with the first two verses fixed like on the album.

LitS is my favorite song from FII, so I'm a bit biased I guess as the final studio version grabbed me instantly and hearing different arrangements of it throw me off.

[Jamesman42]

I think you guys are doing yourselves a disservice by not at least giving them one listen. At the very least, you'll be more educated when these discussions come up, and at best, you might actually *enjoy* them. 

That's a fine point. It's just that, I am not a fan of FII in general, and to look at an over 2 hour demo version doesn't exactly inspire me to delve into it. 

I gave the first track a listen, "Raise the Knife". I loved it on Score, and it's a complete shame it never made the final cut of FII. Why is that? It would be top 3 on the album if it was there.

[Setlist Scotty]

LitS is my favorite song from FII, so I'm a bit biased I guess as the final studio version grabbed me instantly and hearing different arrangements of it throw me off.

Maybe it's just me, but I love when the band changes stuff up live. Gives me something new to experience instead of just hearing the same thing again that I can listen to on CD or countless bootlegs.
 
 

That's a fine point. It's just that, I am not a fan of FII in general, and to look at an over 2 hour demo version doesn't exactly inspire me to delve into it.

I gave the first track a listen, "Raise the Knife". I loved it on Score, and it's a complete shame it never made the final cut of FII. Why is that? It would be top 3 on the album if it was there.

I still think it's worth "toughing" it out - if you love RtK, who knows what else you might enjoy? As for why it wasn't included on the album, that's a question a lot of us wonder about. Personally, I think it's one of the better tracks, but in interviews from the time period, the band stated they went with the strongest material to end up on the album.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I said it somewhere on this forum earlier this year, but I wish the band would have cut a couple of songs from the album proper to include Raise the Knife. That song alone replacing a couple of the lower tier songs on the album would have made Falling Into Infinity rank much higher for me.

[Jamesman42]

I still think it's worth "toughing" it out - if you love RtK, who knows what else you might enjoy? As for why it wasn't included on the album, that's a question a lot of us wonder about. Personally, I think it's one of the better tracks, but in interviews from the time period, the band stated they went with the strongest material to end up on the album.

I also really like "Cover My Eyes", but are the demos vastly different than what ended up on the final cut? 

[Setlist Scotty]

I also really like "Cover My Eyes", but are the demos vastly different than what ended up on the final cut?

In some cases yes, in other cases no. Gotta listen to them to see which ones and how different!   

[Dedalus]

I agree with almost everything you say in your post, although I can understand why they decided to just bring Doug in since that was the vibe they were going for. That said, I know Doug's voice isn't for everyone and Stads in particular can't handle it.

I understand the idea of bringing him in, but I don't think the end result was very good.

I also really like "Cover My Eyes", but are the demos vastly different than what ended up on the final cut?

For many songs yes (LITS, BMS, YOM, TAMP etc), for others not so much (for example, I don't remember if Anna Lee is that different, in my memory it's quite similar).

But for me the great thing about listening to the demo is having the songs that were cut. I love RTK, CME and STM. And I also like WAYN and TWIUTB.

[MoraWintersoul]

There aren't really any MP era songs that I can think of that are retired except maybe something unpopular on FII.

They have nearly 100 songs with MP and let's assume they'll tour about 3 or 4 times with 3 or 4 different setlists. Even committing to playing a completely different setlist each time they tour and not playing ANY MM era songs, they could not cover it all, and that's not going to happen. So even though no one in the band is currently thinking, yeah, we're never gonna play "Prophets of War again", that song is retired, in practice is it is already retired.

That will probably apply to most of Parasomnia as well, because any time most of those songs get on the table, MP is going to say "we did *just recently* play that album in full" and put them a bit lower down in the priority list.

[Max Kuehnau]

Except it's not the first/demo/96 version. Yes, it includes the pre-chorus that wasn't in the album version, but otherwise it's more like the '04 version on L@B. And even then, with the pre-chorus readded as well as the even more lengthy intro and outro than the '04 version, I prefer to refer to this current version as the '09 version, since this is the same way they played it on the Prog Nation '09/BCaSL tour.

aah, see that's what I confused there  I did see them play Hollow Years in 2002 on the 6D tour and that version was different from the album version too though

[Jamesman42]

In some cases yes, in other cases no. Gotta listen to them to see which ones and how different! 

[Dedalus]

So even though no one in the band is currently thinking, yeah, we're never gonna play "Prophets of War again", that song is retired, in practice is it is already retired.

Fun fact: I saw PoW at the same show they played Wither (two songs that haven't been played very often), and I never saw Metropolis in its entirety (damn Pull Me Under/Metropolis version!    )

[KevShmev]

There is a huge contrast between what was done in the 20th anniversary celebration and the 40th anniversary tour.

Anyway, it was more complex to have greater representation now since they have many more albums. But the tour really sounds a bit like "let's play our hits with Vacant + SoC as a bonus".

It was kind of obvious that the MM era would be underrepresented. Some people here correctly predicted that there would be two songs. It's not a surprise. But I really thought they would play something from the first album, because it is a 40th anniversary tour and as a way to celebrate the fact that Charlie was part of this history. The fact that the album went unnoticed was what surprised me the most.

And just to be clear, I'm not complaining about the setlist in any way, because I don't plan on leaving my house to see one of the shows, so I don't think I have anything to complain about.

I think only two songs from the Mangini era is understandable, and the fact that the earliest era of the band (if we can count the pre-WDADU years and WDADU as a singular era) and Six Degrees, one of the band's most popular albums at least with the diehards, both didn't get any representation shows how difficult it was to represent everything.  All things considered, even with it having one song I consider a dog, I think it's an excellent set list and a good representation of their career.  Interestingly, it seems much better than the Score set list, which I, along with many others at the time on dt.net, found underwhelming in real time when we all first saw it.   

[Dedalus]

I think only two songs from the Mangini era is understandable, and the fact that the earliest era of the band (if we can count the pre-WDADU years and WDADU as a singular era) and Six Degrees, one of the band's most popular albums at least with the diehards, both didn't get any representation shows how difficult it was to represent everything.  All things considered, even with it having one song I consider a dog, I think it's an excellent set list and a good representation of their career.  Interestingly, it seems much better than the Score set list, which I, along with many others at the time on dt.net, found underwhelming in real time when we all first saw it. 

I think it's just a matter of having two distinct approaches to choosing the set list. Score was concerned with bringing in a lot of nods to diehards. The current tour, not so much.

Of course, it's more complicated now to have a broader representation, but that was certainly a secondary concern when choosing the set list. For example, all you had to do was cut a ToT song and choose a Six Degrees song in its place and that was it, the "diehards' beloved album" would be represented. It was easy. But it doesn't seem like there was any such concern. Maybe because for a wider audience ToT is more well-known and popular than Six Degrees?

Two distinct approaches, as I said.

[ReaperKK]

Briefly going back to the FII, I personally like all the changes that were made with the exception of Doug P on LITS. It was a terrible choice to have him on the song and his vocal lines are distracting with how terrible they are.

[Setlist Scotty]

aah, see that's what I confused there  I did see them play Hollow Years in 2002 on the 6D tour and that version was different from the album version too though

Now I'm confused. The way it was played in 2002 is pretty close to the album arrangement, except for the fact that they added a bit of an intro and lengthened the outro a bit. But it wasn't as dramatic a change as in 2004 or 2009.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

From what I can see, looks like the official release is in two days

[Adami]

Does James yell Crucify a lot?

[Jamesman42]

Does James yell Crucify a lot?

He starts to, but it cuts off at the end with a flute solo

[MirrorMask]

Ssssssh you know the drill, nothing officially official discussed!

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Ssssssh you know the drill, nothing officially official discussed!

That's why I refrained from trying to find somewhere to listen to it

[RaiseTheKnife]

Hope Vacant stays in the U.S. setlist.  Never seen it live.

[gzarruk]

I can confirm I've listened to Night Terror more than a few times already.

[Max Kuehnau]

Now I'm confused. The way it was played in 2002 is pretty close to the album arrangement, except for the fact that they added a bit of an intro and lengthened the outro a bit. But it wasn't as dramatic a change as in 2004 or 2009.

very sorry  (I might have misremembered some things too though, so)

[wolfking]

Does James yell Crucify a lot?

 

[wolfking]

That's a fine point. It's just that, I am not a fan of FII in general, and to look at an over 2 hour demo version doesn't exactly inspire me to delve into it.

I gave the first track a listen, "Raise the Knife". I loved it on Score, and it's a complete shame it never made the final cut of FII. Why is that? It would be top 3 on the album if it was there.

Yeah this.  At this point in time, it just seems like a real chore.  I too have always been lukewarm on FII but I might try and give this a sample today.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I just had a thought: what if the Shadow Man Incident is the one with the 8 string?

[MinistroRaven]

Ssssssh you know the drill, nothing officially official discussed!

Exactly this:
2b. With regard to "leaked" material ... [from] Dream Theater and side-projects by the members of Dream Theater, you may not discuss the leaked material whatsoever.
Any discussion of a leak, including discussion of the songs themselves, will be met with an immediate ban until at least release date, if not longer.

[Jamesman42]

Exactly this:
2b. With regard to "leaked" material ... [from] Dream Theater and side-projects by the members of Dream Theater, you may not discuss the leaked material whatsoever.
Any discussion of a leak, including discussion of the songs themselves, will be met with an immediate ban until at least release date, if not longer.

I was about to post this. I wish we could, but thems the rules. 

[hefdaddy42]

Re: any leaked material. 

STFU 

or

GTFO 

[Jamesman42]

In some cases yes, in other cases no. Gotta listen to them to see which ones and how different! 

I gave tracks 1-10 a listen tonight and I'm getting tired to listen beyond that.

But this is superior to FII already. I agree with Reaper that Doug P is terrible on LITS. And as much as I love Hell's Kitchen, I also didn't mind it in BMS (I think that's where it was). I think I would even say it's a shame this isn't what we got. I get they had to polish it up but in retrospect, the demos are a tier above the final product.

[wolfking]

I gave tracks 1-10 a listen tonight and I'm getting tired to listen beyond that.

But this is superior to FII already. I agree with Reaper that Doug P is terrible on LITS. And as much as I love Hell's Kitchen, I also didn't mind it in BMS (I think that's where it was). I think I would even say it's a shame this isn't what we got. I get they had to polish it up but in retrospect, the demos are a tier above the final product.

Interesting.  I'll make sure I dive into this tomorrow now.

[Jamesman42]

Interesting.  I'll make sure I dive into this tomorrow now.

It's worth it, I stopped at Peruvian Skies. I gained a lot of appreciation for some songs I am not a fan of. 

I also always liked Take Away My Pain, but the demo version is even better.

[wolfking]

It's worth it, I stopped at Peruvian Skies. I gained a lot of appreciation for some songs I am not a fan of.

I also always liked Take Away My Pain, but the demo version is even better.

Yeah nice.  2 hours 20 minutes though, oh boy.  I'll make sure I have the extra big coffee mug filled before I start.

[Jamesman42]

Yeah nice.  2 hours 20 minutes though, oh boy.  I'll make sure I have the extra big coffee mug filled before I start.

Nah, do what I am doing, split it up. I plan to give the rest a listen tomorrow. I'll let curiosity make me want to come back to it.