DreamSonic 2023

[TAC]

MP presented the band through a fan's eyes. He wanted to make it an experience for the fans. JP presents the band as a musician and businessman trying to sell product. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
They have to make a living, I get that. But there's a coldness to it that I just can't put my finger on. It's not Mangini, especially personality wise. He's great live both interacting with his bandmates and the audience. Their albums are still generally excellent.  Their concerts are still generally excellent.

Maybe the fanbase is just getting older. Maybe they're not attracting new fans. I don't know. Maybe it's just the life cycle of a band with the inevitable downsizing.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

There is 100% a coldness to the shows. It's pretty much blow through the songs - pretty much perfectly - and let's go home. It's weird to complain about the tour when they're doing such a killer job of playing the tunes as close to the recirding, but I felt like they were just there to do a job and get on with it.

Contrast this to my first DT show. MP played a drum solo and picked people from the back of the audience to come up on stage and play with him. That always stuck out to me as a really cool thing to do for the fans and even though I didn't especially want to hear some young guy pound on the drums, I was genuinely entertained but the two of them on stage having fun. This is is no way to say anything is deficient about Mike Mangini because I don't think he has the authority to do something like this even if he wanted. It was just more to everyone else's point that some things have changed for better and worse.

[Architeuthis]

JR puts out a ton of content to engage with his fans. MM does a good job too.

I see John Petrucci and James Labrie both putting out a lot of stuff on FB to keep everyone posted.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

JR puts out a ton of content to engage with his fans. MM does a good job too.

I see John Petrucci and James Labrie both putting out a lot of stuff on FB to keep everyone posted.

JP does a decent job. Granted he is no MP or JR when it comes to engagement.

I just checked JR's website and in addition to all of the small videos he puts out on Instagram, you can see livestreams, chats and lessons from him on Patreon. He even has an option that includes feedback/lessons and a phone call once every 6 months lol.

What more do people want from the guy...

[Pebsie]

There is 100% a coldness to the shows. It's pretty much blow through the songs - pretty much perfectly - and let's go home. It's weird to complain about the tour when they're doing such a killer job of playing the tunes as close to the recirding, but I felt like they were just there to do a job and get on with it.

Contrast this to my first DT show. MP played a drum solo and picked people from the back of the audience to come up on stage and play with him. That always stuck out to me as a really cool thing to do for the fans and even though I didn't especially want to hear some young guy pound on the drums, I was genuinely entertained but the two of them on stage having fun. This is is no way to say anything is deficient about Mike Mangini because I don't think he has the authority to do something like this even if he wanted. It was just more to everyone else's point that some things have changed for better and worse.

There's a total loss of spontaneity in shows these days. Not just from Dream Theater - although especially from Dream Theater - but even in Transatlantic / NMB this sort of thing just doesn't happen. Old shows feel so much like anything could happen. Look at some of those old DT setlists.

And it's not just prog. Bands like Barenaked Ladies play the exact same set night after night for 40+ dates. They don't have a screen, backing tracks or particularly complex parts to learn. They used to change the setlist up nightly -- because most of their songs are just 4 chords -- but these days even they don't bother making things feel spontaneous.

I'm hugely grateful for Big Big Train intentionally learning 3 hours of music and playing 2 hours on their last and upcoming tour. I'm booked in for both nights at Cadogan Hall and they've confirmed that they'll be doing 40 minutes of different material night to night. Spoiling the setlist isn't possible. Between each song anything could happen; deep cuts, one night only tracks... it returns the sense of awe and wonder between each song.

I wish more bands would realise that screens, light shows, backing tracks etc are fine but the heart of a show is the connection between the band and the audience. It's more ambitious switching it up every night and trying hard to create that connection than paying some freelancer to create a 3 hour 3d animation to accompany the same 15 songs you'll be playing 100 times on this tour.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I wish more bands would realise that screens, light shows, backing tracks etc are fine but the heart of a show is the connection between the band and the audience. It's more ambitious switching it up every night and trying hard to create that connection than paying some freelancer to create a 3 hour 3d animation to accompany the same 15 songs you'll be playing 100 times on this tour.

This is why Metallica are IMO the best live band out there. They have the budget for an elaborate stage production and they absolutely use that budget, but they also understand that people are there to see them, and all of the production that goes into their shows serves to enhance THEM.

[Stadler]

JR puts out a ton of content to engage with his fans. MM does a good job too.

I see John Petrucci and James Labrie both putting out a lot of stuff on FB to keep everyone posted.

JP does a decent job. Granted he is no MP or JR when it comes to engagement.

I just checked JR's website and in addition to all of the small videos he puts out on Instagram, you can see livestreams, chats and lessons from him on Patreon. He even has an option that includes feedback/lessons and a phone call once every 6 months lol.

What more do people want from the guy...

Well, not saying better or worse, that's up to you to decide, but it IS different.  I'm tuned out to all gear related things.  Just not interested.  But as TAC said, there used to be a sort of "aw gee whiz" approach to things, and as a fan I felt like I had a buddy in the band.  The things my friends and I talked about going to a King Crimson show (I use them because they are patently NOT a "the latest single" type of band) are the things that Mike talked about. He'd put out his lists.  We used to do that.   I can still probably get you 7 or so of Mike's top 10 albums.  I can still tell you those other albums that he liked and that influenced his work (still can't understand what he saw in Radiohead, but that's a ME problem!).   He'd bring his "three best Rush boots" to his visit to Eddie Trunk's show. 

I know from my perspective, I remember when the "kerfuffle" happened, and (I believe it was James) said "we're all going to step up and fill the void" and at least from my perspective, they have not.  For better or worse.  I know they are different and even different now than they were then, but still.  The fact remains, FOR ME, it is a "colder" experience. 

[Skeever]

I think the guys do an OK job with communications, on additional thought. JR and JLB are fairly active, and both guys have been known to even respond back to fan comments. Back in the day, you just didn't know what anyone was up to unless they did and interview or a documentary. I loved that stuff, but these days I doubt many people want to watch a "making of" - they'd rather open an app and getting little micro updates all through the process.

[DreamerTV]

Dt are done.

The vast majority of us in old markets goes to their concerts because, well, it kinda reminds us of a long time ago when we use to spend so many hours on DT. Once you let the nostalgia go - or it becomes too expensive - you're out of the loop for good.

There are some relatively new markets where they still manage to gather big numbers - for their standards - like in Indonesia and other countries in the southeast Asia because it's something "new" for those people to have DT to come and play there and technicality is still a big thing.

[nobloodyname]

I wish more bands would realise that screens, light shows, backing tracks etc are fine but the heart of a show is the connection between the band and the audience. It's more ambitious switching it up every night and trying hard to create that connection than paying some freelancer to create a 3 hour 3d animation to accompany the same 15 songs you'll be playing 100 times on this tour.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! I've seen them about 25 times in four different countries but... I don't go anymore. And while a chunk of that is to do with James' performance, the rest is to do with a lack of connection. And for me personally, that fell-off a cliff edge when MP left. To be fair, I felt it was worsening just before he left but his exit certainly provided further impetus and probably hastened the speed of regression.

[gborland]

A friend of mine often tells me of the time he saw a DT show in the modern "click-track-and-videos" era where there were logistics/transport problems, and the show ended up being just a minimal lighting rig with none of the screens or other distractions. He assures me it was the best DT gig he'd seen for many years, because it recaptured some of the energy and rawness of the good old days. I'm told the crowd went insane and the energy was off the scale.

That's not something we hear too often about DT these days.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Dt are done.

The vast majority of us in old markets goes to their concerts because, well, it kinda reminds us of a long time ago when we use to spend so many hours on DT. Once you let the nostalgia go - or it becomes too expensive - you're out of the loop for good.

There are some relatively new markets where they still manage to gather big numbers - for their standards - like in Indonesia and other countries in the southeast Asia because it's something "new" for those people to have DT to come and play there and technicality is still a big thing.

What does this mean? They're going bankrupt? The group is about to disband?

Also not directed at any particular person: do we even know what the label has budgeted for take home from these shows or are we all just speculating that sales are missing budget and wildly off expectations based on looking at ticketmaster seats and some people being disappointed the shows lack spontaneity and therefore declaring they're staying home?

[gzarruk]

The Q&A with John P, Tosin, Javier and Devin is live right now in case anyone wants to join. I'm outside, so I'll probably just listen back to it when I'm home.

[Trav]

The Q&A with John P, Tosin, Javier and Devin is live right now in case anyone wants to join. I'm outside, so I'll probably just listen back to it when I'm home.

No new info from what I heard. Just joking around and mutual admiration. Nothing that made me want to go spend $300

[NoFred]

There is 100% a coldness to the shows. It's pretty much blow through the songs - pretty much perfectly - and let's go home. It's weird to complain about the tour when they're doing such a killer job of playing the tunes as close to the recirding, but I felt like they were just there to do a job and get on with it.

At this point I wish they embraced the coldness and delivered extended/prerecorded intros and outros/varied their songs too.

Going to be a strange reaction when an opener (hevy devy) is 10x the showman they are...

I don't think they're done, but I onliy go to see new songs. Otherwise they're pretty much phoning it in

[Architeuthis]

Dream Theater done???   
You guys are off your rocker,   DT has a lot left in their tank and won't be slowing down anytime soon. I bet we get at least three more albums out of them or more. They're putting out some darn good albums this late in their career.

[DreamerTV]

Dream Theater done???   
You guys are off your rocker,   DT has a lot left in their tank and won't be slowing down anytime soon. I bet we get at least three more albums out of them or more. They're putting out some darn good albums this late in their career.

I was working while writing my post, so i've basically cut it maybe too short.
I'm sure they want to deliver more music, no doubt they will, i'm not sure how relevant that will be.
In terms of engaging with their fans though, they've been a letdown for years now: their social media are, well, useless?, their live setting is the opposite of what their kind of music calls for, the performances are directly impacted by that (not mentioning James's...), merch has been awful etc etc...
Point is i think they don't feel the need to do anything different, and there's a reason to that. I think their target is very specific by now: people in their 50/60, who can afford this much money and really like the idea of a confortable seated show, whose other bands they've been listening are either too old and/or tour way less than DT.
That's what i meant with "they're done": until a miracle happens, they will never be able to get out of their niche again, and even within their fanbase they're losing pieces year after year.

EDIT: i've seen the Q&A. I understand the goal of the host to set a good vibe, but the guy - who's for sure a very nice and kind person - laugh way too much and most of times for no reason.

[Trav]

Dream Theater done???   
You guys are off your rocker,   DT has a lot left in their tank and won't be slowing down anytime soon. I bet we get at least three more albums out of them or more. They're putting out some darn good albums this late in their career.

I was working while writing my post, so i've basically cut it maybe too short.
I'm sure they want to deliver more music, no doubt they will, i'm not sure how relevant that will be.
In terms of engaging with their fans though, they've been a letdown for years now: their social media are, well, useless?, their live setting is the opposite of what their kind of music calls for, the performances are directly impacted by that (not mentioning James's...), merch has been awful etc etc...
Point is i think they don't feel the need to do anything different, and there's a reason to that. I think their target is very specific by now: people in their 50/60, who can afford this much money and really like the idea of a confortable seated show, whose other bands they've been listening are either too old and/or tour way less than DT.
That's what i meant with "they're done": until a miracle happens, they will never be able to get out of their niche again, and even within their fanbase they're losing pieces year after year.

EDIT: i've seen the Q&A. I understand the goal of the host to set a good vibe, but the guy - who's for sure a very nice and kind person - laugh way too much and most of times for no reason.

I agree. As sad as it is.

[KevShmev]

Dream Theater done???   
You guys are off your rocker,  DT has a lot left in their tank and won't be slowing down anytime soon. I bet we get at least three more albums out of them or more. They're putting out some darn good albums this late in their career.

They already have slowed down.  They have released only three albums in the last 10 years (2014-2023), and who knows when the next one will be.  Not a criticism, as they are getting older, and very few bands keep releasing new albums and touring at the pace they did when they were younger.

[Chino]

Dream Theater done???   
You guys are off your rocker,  DT has a lot left in their tank and won't be slowing down anytime soon. I bet we get at least three more albums out of them or more. They're putting out some darn good albums this late in their career.

They already have slowed down.  They have released only three albums in the last 10 years (2014-2023), and who knows when the next one will be.  Not a criticism, as they are getting older, and very few bands keep releasing new albums and touring at the pace they did when they were younger.

That could be a financial matter though. Touring is basically the only way for the band to make money now. They don't make anything off studio records, and they seem to have thrown in the towel on live recordings as well. The band might need to write less and tour more often to make the same amount of money they did between 2004 and 2014.

[gzarruk]

I haven't done the actual math, but it seems to me that indeed they're touring more than they did in the 2000's.

[Trav]

I haven't done the actual math, but it seems to me that indeed they're touring more than they did in the 2000's.

Yes. Two factors with that. A) It's more financially lucrative. and B) Their kids are grown now. They said that part of their touring schedule back in the day allowed them to be home more often with their families.

[Skeever]

That could be a financial matter though. Touring is basically the only way for the band to make money now. They don't make anything off studio records, and they seem to have thrown in the towel on live recordings as well. The band might need to write less and tour more often to make the same amount of money they did between 2004 and 2014.

Huh? The only record that didn't get a live album was The Astonishing. They also released 6 official bootlegs in the last 5 years.

Doesn't seem to me like the band are really doing much different. But the fans are definitely getting sleepier, and don't seem as interested as they were before.

[cramx3]

The Q&A with John P, Tosin, Javier and Devin is live right now in case anyone wants to join. I'm outside, so I'll probably just listen back to it when I'm home.

No new info from what I heard. Just joking around and mutual admiration. Nothing that made me want to go spend $300

I watched some of that and thought it was terrible promotion. 

You guys doing anything new or interesting for this tour? :crickets: OK I guess not!

Any meet and greet or something for all three bands for the fans? :crickets: OK I guess not!

Hoenstly, that was pathetic from what I saw besides a few jokes from Devin.

EDIT: i've seen the Q&A. I understand the goal of the host to set a good vibe, but the guy - who's for sure a very nice and kind person - laugh way too much and most of times for no reason.

I think that guy was doing the best he could to keep a conversation as it seemed no one was wanting to talk. It was awkward and I give that guy props for trying even though I found the laughing too much, but it felt like he was trying HARD to get these guys to promote the tour.  There seemed to be no excitement what so ever. Hopefully it got better after I stopped watching.

Dream Theater done???   
You guys are off your rocker,  DT has a lot left in their tank and won't be slowing down anytime soon. I bet we get at least three more albums out of them or more. They're putting out some darn good albums this late in their career.

They already have slowed down.  They have released only three albums in the last 10 years (2014-2023), and who knows when the next one will be.  Not a criticism, as they are getting older, and very few bands keep releasing new albums and touring at the pace they did when they were younger.

That could be a financial matter though. Touring is basically the only way for the band to make money now. They don't make anything off studio records, and they seem to have thrown in the towel on live recordings as well. The band might need to write less and tour more often to make the same amount of money they did between 2004 and 2014.

It's true they likely need to tour more to keep the money rolling, but they also did invest in building that new studio (It's only 20 minutes from JP's house, wasn't it supposed to be some mystery?  I think that was the only interesting thing I got out of the dream sonic interview). So I don't see them really coming to a true slow down of making music.  They could actually be doing more touring now while they can so they can continue to make music and not tour as much later.

[DreamerTV]

I watched some of that and thought it was terrible promotion. 

You guys doing anything new or interesting for this tour? :crickets: OK I guess not!

Any meet and greet or something for all three bands for the fans? :crickets: OK I guess not!

Hoenstly, that was pathetic from what I saw besides a few jokes from Devin.

EDIT: i've seen the Q&A. I understand the goal of the host to set a good vibe, but the guy - who's for sure a very nice and kind person - laugh way too much and most of times for no reason.

I think that guy was doing the best he could to keep a conversation as it seemed no one was wanting to talk. It was awkward and I give that guy props for trying even though I found the laughing too much, but it felt like he was trying HARD to get these guys to promote the tour.  There seemed to be no excitement what so ever. Hopefully it got better after I stopped watching.

Nope, it didn't got better...

Maybe i was biased because i saw his previous interview with JP and it was basically the same.
But yeah you're right: there were some reeeeeally ackward moments like when the guy said something like "i'm doing my best with what i've been given" (to promote the event) after besically everything "special" was excluded, and when JP himself said "i don't think we're going to sell any more tickets with this interview". He was laughing but i don't think he was that happy.
That's how things have been going on really: everything seem always so random, or so horribly planned it kinda doesn't seems professional.

[cramx3]

Oh wow I can't believe he said that and he has to be thinking that they really need to sell tickets too making it so awkward.

And I will admit, some of the awkwardness is charming in a way.  Like we all know JP is like this.  Devin is quirky too.  It's their personality.  But man, they really didn't even feel like they were trying to get fans to show up.

[DreamerTV]

Oh wow I can't believe he said that and he has to be thinking that they really need to sell tickets too making it so awkward.

And I will admit, some of the awkwardness is charming in a way.  Like we all know JP is like this.  Devin is quirky too.  It's their personality.  But man, they really didn't even feel like they were trying to get fans to show up.

Yeah, for sure on one hand it was nice to see them go along so well, and the general vibe was really positive and funny, but on the other was it really that the point?

Nothing special, we will play as usual, actually not as long as on a regular tour as we're 3 bands and because of that we'll charge you a bit more, so please show up! Ok.

[Trav]

The AAL guys were trying, but you can tell they're not quite as used to stuff like this. They were pretty much just praising DT...and praising DT as well . They were just happy to be there.

Devin seemed like he didn't want to be there and just made jokes and random shit. I'm under the impression that he's usually like that.

JP...you could tell he knew it was a waste of time. He sees the sales. Just like we've seen, it's a sinking ship before it sets sail. The interviewer kept asking "are you bringing it to Europe? Will you keep this going after this year?" JP is just like ":shrug: we'll see how this one goes"

[Chino]

Maybe it's just too much reading of this thread, but I'm kind of regretting getting the seats I did now. This is the most I've spent on DT tickets since the SCORE show back in 2006, and now I'm kind of asking myself what I was thinking. I think the word "festival" got me a little excited for a bunch of music. But as time goes on, it's just looking like a normal length DT concert with an extra band squeezed on the bill.

[DreamerTV]

The AAL guys were trying, but you can tell they're not quite as used to stuff like this. They were pretty much just praising DT...and praising DT as well . They were just happy to be there.

Devin seemed like he didn't want to be there and just made jokes and random shit. I'm under the impression that he's usually like that.

JP...you could tell he knew it was a waste of time. He sees the sales. Just like we've seen, it's a sinking ship before it sets sail. The interviewer kept asking "are you bringing it to Europe? Will you keep this going after this year?" JP is just like ":shrug: we'll see how this one goes"

Funnily enough, at some point he mentioned the Gigantour as a reference for this formula, which in the 2005 edition (the one with DT) failed to sell well for every date but one.

[Skeever]

I thought the interview/promo/podcast/whatever was pretty funny. You guys are a bunch of grumps

[Skeever]

Maybe it's just too much reading of this thread, but I'm kind of regretting getting the seats I did now. This is the most I've spent on DT tickets since the SCORE show back in 2006, and now I'm kind of asking myself what I was thinking. I think the word "festival" got me a little excited for a bunch of music. But as time goes on, it's just looking like a normal length DT concert with an extra band squeezed on the bill.

Man if this thread is making you feel like that, maybe it's time to log off. I'm sure the show is going to be an amazing time, don't overthink it (and I'm sorry if I contributed to anyone doing so with my own ramblings as to why I'm undecided).

[Trav]

The AAL guys were trying, but you can tell they're not quite as used to stuff like this. They were pretty much just praising DT...and praising DT as well . They were just happy to be there.

Devin seemed like he didn't want to be there and just made jokes and random shit. I'm under the impression that he's usually like that.

JP...you could tell he knew it was a waste of time. He sees the sales. Just like we've seen, it's a sinking ship before it sets sail. The interviewer kept asking "are you bringing it to Europe? Will you keep this going after this year?" JP is just like ":shrug: we'll see how this one goes"

Funnily enough, at some point he mentioned the Gigantour as a reference for this formula, which in the 2005 edition (the one with DT) failed to sell well for every date but one.

Didn't Gigantour start as a Portnoy/Mustaine collab and after it didn't go so well, It Just became a Megadeth headlined event the following tours? I remember Portnoy grumbling about how it was suppose to be a Co-headlining event and Mustaine kinda took it over or something.

[Ben_Jamin]

That interview was hilarious.

Personally, the reason I am going is because I do enjoy all three of these bands. They're still prog metal, and honesyly, they're some of the top Prog-Metal bands in this side of the world. For me, this shows how much support Prog-Metal has here, which is none.

Devin is Devin and his personality is very, very different than what his music portrays. His music is his outlet for things. Yet, he himself is very personal and would rather stay at home then tour, which is why he jokes about having to lure him out. He even had a quip about Meet and Greets, and since understanding his personality, I doubt he even likes doing them, but sometimes his label makes him do it, so he has no choice, but still tries his best to be humble for the fans that do come to meet and greets.

Honestly, I am glad they're not doing meet and greet packages because that would mean good seats would be held on reserve just for these specific VIP Meet and Greet packages. And if people are complaining about ticket prices what makes you think people will buy these expensive meet and greet packages?

Also, I get the feeling that these guys don't really get involved with the business side of music, especially Devin. They let others who know that part of the music business handle it, which then it becomes a matter of trusting those music business people to handle it for them.

All three laughed when it was said,  "I just pick up my guitar and play." Because, that is how it is for most bands.

The music business side of things most bands do not handle, it's why they hire others to handle that headache.


The reason why I bought tickets for this tour is for the reason the bands stated....To see all three amazing bands in one bill. That alone is enough for me. I don't expect nor desire anything more than to just see and hear my favorite bands playing the music I enjoy from them.

[cramx3]

I thought the interview/promo/podcast/whatever was pretty funny. You guys are a bunch of grumps

It has it's moments.  But I watched the rest of it (here's the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tVE16xUsrI ) and I thought it definitely got more "enjoyable" as an interview as it went on, but it still, didn't really do a good job promoting the tour which really could use the promotion. 

As much as I've complained about things, I'm still excited for the show.  I think it's a great line up and I plan on going twice.