DreamSonic 2023

[Trav]

I hate to pass on this but I am. I loved the show last year, so I have no complaints about DT live. But...for my son and myself, it'll be $200+ for decent seats. And that's not even in the front section, that's the middle. And it'll more than likely be a shorter set, and we have no interest in Devin or AAL.  Not to mention has to drive an hour there and such.

I think at this point it would be better for DT to look at doing co-headlining tours with other more legacy type bands. A smaller version of what Leppard and Crue are doing with their stadium tour. 

[Chino]

I've seen AAL live, and while the music is cool, it's incredibly dull to watch live.

I hope they aren't ridiculously loud like Arch Echo was before DT.   I find it strange that AAL uses a second eight string instead of a bass guitar. That rubs me the wrong way for some reason.  Maybe I'll see the method to that madness when I see them live.

I was over AE after about 10 minutes. It was so loud, I felt like my brain was getting scrambled. It all just started sounding the same after a bit.




Re: Ticket Sales - Boy, the CT show is really selling poorly. Basically nothing a has sold since I bought my tickets the day they went on sale.   

It's way too expensive, and I'm not understanding their pricing structure. The absolute shittiest of the shitty seats is still $40 before $20+ worth of fees. I'm talking off to the side, out in the nose bleeds and with stage obstruction likely.

Both of these seats costs exactly the same ($70 before fees):


How does that work? There are still seats in the front row available after 6+ weeks of being on sale, do they really think people are going to pay upwards of $100 to sit a mile away?

[cramx3]

How did the Progressive Nation shows do?

I went to the 1st one that had 3 and Opeth on it, in Cleveland, and I recall it being pretty well attended.

In NYC, they did 2 nights at Terminal 5 which has ~3k capacity.  I don't recall it being sold out either night but decently attended (I could be wrong, but I don't recall being cramped for those shows).  I was literally just thinking that's probably where they should have put the show instead of the MSG theater but Terminal 5 is all GA and DT has really stayed away from playing such venues.  It honestly would have been awesome if they played there and then charged a flat GA price for entry.

I forgot there were two ProgNation tours.... so to come back to this.  That was my recolation of the first prognation.  Here's my recolection of the second round in 2009 they played at the Beacon in NYC (typical venue for them including playing there the last tour, ~2.6k capacity). I recall the Beacon being full (and it might have sold out in 2022) and being in the last row.  However, two days earlier they played in NJ and that venue was mostly empty for them.  They put a chair layout in the GA pit for the Convention Hall in Asbury park and it just didn't sell well. They did do another show in Long Island NY between the NJ and NYC show so basically three within a very small area.  I didn't attend that one.  The cool part, as was usual in the MP days, if you went to all three of those shows you got 3 different sets.

[Architeuthis]

I've seen AAL live, and while the music is cool, it's incredibly dull to watch live.

I hope they aren't ridiculously loud like Arch Echo was before DT.   I find it strange that AAL uses a second eight string instead of a bass guitar. That rubs me the wrong way for some reason.  Maybe I'll see the method to that madness when I see them live.

I was over AE after about 10 minutes. It was so loud, I felt like my brain was getting scrambled. It all just started sounding the same after a bit.



How does that work? There are still seats in the front row available after 6+ weeks of being on sale, do they really think people are going to pay upwards of $100 to sit a mile away?

It's called Ticketbrokers (legalized scalping). They buy up the best seats before they go on sale to the public. After that, they put them back on sale with a 500% mark-up or more. They actually have a contract with TM.  It's a dark side to the music industry called greed.

[TAC]

I was looking at most of the shows on the tour and they're all about 1000-1500 tickets sold. I kind of feel bad for them. Not sure this tour was a great idea.

[KevShmev]

I forgot there were two ProgNation tours.... so to come back to this.  That was my recolation of the first prognation.  Here's my recolection of the second round in 2009 they played at the Beacon in NYC (typical venue for them including playing there the last tour, ~2.6k capacity). I recall the Beacon being full (and it might have sold out in 2022) and being in the last row.  However, two days earlier they played in NJ and that venue was mostly empty for them.  They put a chair layout in the GA pit for the Convention Hall in Asbury park and it just didn't sell well. They did do another show in Long Island NY between the NJ and NYC show so basically three within a very small area.  I didn't attend that one.  The cool part, as was usual in the MP days, if you went to all three of those shows you got 3 different sets.

Yep, I can't help but think DT being in the habit of playing the same set list every night on a tour is not helping tickets sales on this.  If fans still thought they could hear different sets on a night to night basis, I'd bet good money that the ticket sales wouldn't be lagging this much.  It used to be that following a DT tour online was fun, as you never knew what it was going to be each show.  Now, once you have seen the set list for the first show, you pretty much have it for the whole tour as they seemingly try their best now to do the exact same show every single night, and there is no reason to keep following the tour.  Given their ages, I don't blame them for not wanting to constantly practice a million songs to have ready to go each tour, but it's just the reality of the situation.  Concert ticket prices are up across the board and seemingly everyone is touring this year, and most people cannot afford to go to every show they want.

[TAC]

  It used to be that following a DT tour online was fun, as you never knew what it was going to be each show. 

Oh so much this. It was like getting the box scores from the night before. I'd follow up on shows that I would never attend. There was just such a level of fan engagement.

Has there been any engagement by the band with regards to this tour? Are they doing press? Instagram?

What pisses me off about modern DT is that they only engage with their fans when they want to push gear.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I am still contemplating this one. I liked the first leg of the NA tour so I am willing to see second but sitting through AAL is a big ask. Tosin is a great player and an innovator so nothing against him but I don't really want to sit through a 45m set. The only familiarity I have with Devin Townsend is the Vai album Sex & Religion. Not a fan of that vocal style.

[KevShmev]

  It used to be that following a DT tour online was fun, as you never knew what it was going to be each show. 

Oh so much this. It was like getting the box scores from the night before. I'd follow up on shows that I would never attend. There was just such a level of fan engagement.

Has there been any engagement by the band with regards to this tour? Are they doing press? Instagram?

What pisses me off about modern DT is that they only engage with their fans when they want to push gear.

My view on that is, if any of them (Mangini aside) had any interest in engaging with the fans, they would have been doing it for years before Portnoy's departure. It's not like Portnoy told them, "Okay, fellas, I am going to interact online and no one else is allowed to do it!" Fan interaction has to happen naturally, and it's clear that Portnoy is the only member of the band who has ever given a crap about it.  Sad, because in this day and age with social media, it is so easy to do.

Now, I am not saying the band doesn't care about the fans, just that they obviously don't care about connecting with the fans in any kind of real and personal way.  And that is not necessarily a bad thing per se.  It's just shocking that more artists don't realize the value in doing it.

[Metro]

May be too soon to tell, but I don't think this will be a "reoccurring musical event", as they hoped. Maybe they'll have better luck when/if they take this to Europe.

[Architeuthis]

May be too soon to tell, but I don't think this will be a "reoccurring musical event", as they hoped. Maybe they'll have better luck when/if they take this to Europe.

Europe, Asia, Japan, and South America have a much deeper appreciation for progressive rock/metal than North America.  It's too bad because Dream Theater and Symphony X are all American bands from the east coast. Devin Townsend is practically a native to the Pacific Northwest, our next door neighbor from Vancouver BC. You would think that people would embrace them more and show some love.
I don't know where to check, but I wonder what ticket sales look like so far for the show near Seattle?

[Skeever]

This conversation is a total bummer. Sucks to see a favorite band on the decline.
But there's a flipside. I'd love to see DT in an intimate, stripped-down venue, kinda like how they started, if they ever decide to go that route.
Not saying they would, for sure, but having seen some other all-time favorites playing small clubs and such, it's a good time.

[cramx3]

I forgot there were two ProgNation tours.... so to come back to this.  That was my recolation of the first prognation.  Here's my recolection of the second round in 2009 they played at the Beacon in NYC (typical venue for them including playing there the last tour, ~2.6k capacity). I recall the Beacon being full (and it might have sold out in 2022) and being in the last row.  However, two days earlier they played in NJ and that venue was mostly empty for them.  They put a chair layout in the GA pit for the Convention Hall in Asbury park and it just didn't sell well. They did do another show in Long Island NY between the NJ and NYC show so basically three within a very small area.  I didn't attend that one.  The cool part, as was usual in the MP days, if you went to all three of those shows you got 3 different sets.

Yep, I can't help but think DT being in the habit of playing the same set list every night on a tour is not helping tickets sales on this.  If fans still thought they could hear different sets on a night to night basis, I'd bet good money that the ticket sales wouldn't be lagging this much.  It used to be that following a DT tour online was fun, as you never knew what it was going to be each show.  Now, once you have seen the set list for the first show, you pretty much have it for the whole tour as they seemingly try their best now to do the exact same show every single night, and there is no reason to keep following the tour.  Given their ages, I don't blame them for not wanting to constantly practice a million songs to have ready to go each tour, but it's just the reality of the situation.  Concert ticket prices are up across the board and seemingly everyone is touring this year, and most people cannot afford to go to every show they want.

On top of the different set lists, that NYC show had Dweezil Zappa playing Metropolis with them.  The previous PN tour in NYC had the drum solo with all the other drummers one night and then they did Repentence for the one and only time the other night.  It was MORE than just different sets, they actually made them special in NYC for those shows.  And yeah, this goes back to when I first became a DT fan and I would LOVE checking out the set list every morning for shows that had nothing to do with me because it was interesting to see what was being played.

[ReaperKK]

I've seen AAL live, and while the music is cool, it's incredibly dull to watch live.

I hope they aren't ridiculously loud like Arch Echo was before DT.   I find it strange that AAL uses a second eight string instead of a bass guitar. That rubs me the wrong way for some reason.  Maybe I'll see the method to that madness when I see them live.

I've seen them before and they aren't quiet , but not nearly as loud as the past couple of DT shows I've been to.

I didn't think they were dull live when I saw them but I'm biased because I really enjoy AAL.

[cramx3]

I am still contemplating this one. I liked the first leg of the NA tour so I am willing to see second but sitting through AAL is a big ask. Tosin is a great player and an innovator so nothing against him but I don't really want to sit through a 45m set. The only familiarity I have with Devin Townsend is the Vai album Sex & Religion. Not a fan of that vocal style.

You could always show up after their sets.  But for Devin, if all you heard was the Vai album, you are in for something quite different. 

[Trav]

You guys think that the biggest factor here is ticket prices + the current state of the economy? If we're comparing it to Prognation....at that time DT were probably at their mainstream popularity peak. You had more bands on the bill and the the tickets weren't as much. And it was right before the recession hit. People just can't afford stuff like this as much right now.

[hefdaddy42]

I think one factor in lagging sales is the opening acts.  DT is already a niche band, and Devin and AAL are even nichier.  They aren't helping the draw at these ticket prices, especially when it wasn't really all that long ago that DT toured.

I would love to see this show, but I'm weird, and definitely in the niche.

[Chino]

I think one factor in lagging sales is the opening acts.  DT is already a niche band, and Devin and AAL are even nichier.  They aren't helping the draw at these ticket prices, especially when it wasn't really all that long ago that DT toured.

I would love to see this show, but I'm weird, and definitely in the niche.

I think that's a large contributor for sure. People got used to the 3 hour evening with shows, and now getting anything under 90 minutes just doesn't seem worth the price of admission. I'm contemplating skipping AAL. I'm trying to get into them and am really struggling.   

I think a lot of people may have just moved on from the band. Back in 2009 when Prog Nation was going on, I went with 4 friends who loved DT (they introduced me). None of them listen to the band anymore and wouldn't come see this show if I offered them a free ticket. Dream Theater "just stands in place and plays to a click track. There's no energy" is what they say.

[Awaken]

I think one factor in lagging sales is the opening acts.  DT is already a niche band, and Devin and AAL are even nichier.  They aren't helping the draw at these ticket prices, especially when it wasn't really all that long ago that DT toured.

I would love to see this show, but I'm weird, and definitely in the niche.

I think that's a large contributor for sure. People got used to the 3 hour evening with shows, and now getting anything under 90 minutes just doesn't seem worth the price of admission. I'm contemplating skipping AAL. I'm trying to get into them and am really struggling.   

I think a lot of people may have just moved on from the band. Back in 2009 when Prog Nation was going on, I went with 4 friends who loved DT (they introduced me). None of them listen to the band anymore and wouldn't come see this show if I offered them a free ticket. Dream Theater "just stands in place and plays to a click track. There's no energy" is what they say.

I'm in a similar boat - I remember getting into the band in the mid-90s there were convoys of carloads heading to see DT play.  For the past 5-10 years, I've seen them alone cause no one I know that was into them goes (or even thinks about going) anymore.  All various reasons, but I'm still floored watching JP/JM/MM play like they do.  I guess that's the draw for AAL, too, but as talented as they all are - I usually find myself a bit bored w their music after the first 10-15 min.  Hopefully seeing them live will change that.

[MrMike]

I think one factor in lagging sales is the opening acts.  DT is already a niche band, and Devin and AAL are even nichier.  They aren't helping the draw at these ticket prices, especially when it wasn't really all that long ago that DT toured.

Agree.  They overestimated how many who've seen DT many times already would be drawn back in to see either Devin or AAL.  The same goes for fans of the two openers who may've never been that into DT.

Only two weeks until opening night in Texas and the outer bowl sections for that one are still mostly blue.  I'm thinking they should've done what JP did with his solo tour last year.  Announce just 3 or so shows in markets where you expect the biggest turnouts and then gauge demand from those before booking dozens of more shows at the current ticket prices.

[Chino]

Lunchtime Analysis:



CT is selling like dick. 

The map on the left was when I bought my tickets back on the morning of 4/13 or whatever day they went on sale. The map on the right was yesterday, 6/1... We'll call it 6 weeks.

The seats on the right that are shaded green are the seats that sold in the last 6 weeks, and the ones in purple are the ones that weren't available on day 1 and now are for whatever reason. The sections I circled in orange, based on grouping and section of the venue, I don't think were purchased by DT fans and could possibly be largely empty come the day of.

That is not many tickets sold in the last 6 weeks. My napkin math, even including orange circles, is 400ish tickets sold in the last 6 weeks. I'm thinking somewhere between 800-1000 tickets are spoken for at this point, in a venue that seats 5700. And I'm betting that most of the seats that weren't available on the day-1 chart on the left weren't even bought by DT fans. Those are probably spoken for regardless of who's performing. 

This has some bust potential, I think.

[cramx3]

They'll likely close the back sections and reassign everyone to the lower section.  They did this when Dream Theater played PNC Bank Arts Center once before (a 17k amphitheater).  I just hope this doesn't mean the ushers will be out like they were that night likely because of the low attendance.

[TAC]

This has some bust potential, I think.

This is what I was getting at yesterday. Looking at other venues on this tour, it's much the same. For some reason, the Philly show is selling decent.

[Skeever]

This has some bust potential, I think.

This is what I was getting at yesterday. Looking at other venues on this tour, it's much the same. For some reason, the Philly show is selling decent.

it's on a Saturday night, for one.

[KevShmev]

I forgot there were two ProgNation tours.... so to come back to this.  That was my recolation of the first prognation.  Here's my recolection of the second round in 2009 they played at the Beacon in NYC (typical venue for them including playing there the last tour, ~2.6k capacity). I recall the Beacon being full (and it might have sold out in 2022) and being in the last row.  However, two days earlier they played in NJ and that venue was mostly empty for them.  They put a chair layout in the GA pit for the Convention Hall in Asbury park and it just didn't sell well. They did do another show in Long Island NY between the NJ and NYC show so basically three within a very small area.  I didn't attend that one.  The cool part, as was usual in the MP days, if you went to all three of those shows you got 3 different sets.

Yep, I can't help but think DT being in the habit of playing the same set list every night on a tour is not helping tickets sales on this.  If fans still thought they could hear different sets on a night to night basis, I'd bet good money that the ticket sales wouldn't be lagging this much.  It used to be that following a DT tour online was fun, as you never knew what it was going to be each show.  Now, once you have seen the set list for the first show, you pretty much have it for the whole tour as they seemingly try their best now to do the exact same show every single night, and there is no reason to keep following the tour.  Given their ages, I don't blame them for not wanting to constantly practice a million songs to have ready to go each tour, but it's just the reality of the situation.  Concert ticket prices are up across the board and seemingly everyone is touring this year, and most people cannot afford to go to every show they want.

On top of the different set lists, that NYC show had Dweezil Zappa playing Metropolis with them.  The previous PN tour in NYC had the drum solo with all the other drummers one night and then they did Repentence for the one and only time the other night.  It was MORE than just different sets, they actually made them special in NYC for those shows.  And yeah, this goes back to when I first became a DT fan and I would LOVE checking out the set list every morning for shows that had nothing to do with me because it was interesting to see what was being played.

I hear ya.  And to be clear, I will reiterate that the band is older now and is not realistic to expect them to keep doing set lists that are radically different each night at this stage, but it just feels like they have went too far in the other direction.  It is very possible that the average DT fan isn't bothered at all by the stagnant set lists, as our forum here is such a tiny percentage of the overall fanbase, but we can only speak from our own point of views.

[ReaperKK]

They'll likely close the back sections and reassign everyone to the lower section.  They did this when Dream Theater played PNC Bank Arts Center once before (a 17k amphitheater).  I just hope this doesn't mean the ushers will be out like they were that night likely because of the low attendance.

I wonder if it's just a price thing. Normally I wouldn't of paid as much as I did but I'm turning this into a Florida trip to visit my family but the prices are steep. I'm 6th row but the ticket was $175 which included a party package which I couldn't opt out and all I get is a free drink and an appetizer (this isn't a DT package). It's wild because this ticket cost more than my 10th row Tool ticket.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I am still contemplating this one. I liked the first leg of the NA tour so I am willing to see second but sitting through AAL is a big ask. Tosin is a great player and an innovator so nothing against him but I don't really want to sit through a 45m set. The only familiarity I have with Devin Townsend is the Vai album Sex & Religion. Not a fan of that vocal style.

You could always show up after their sets.  But for Devin, if all you heard was the Vai album, you are in for something quite different.

which Devin album do you recommend I start with to get a good intro to his music?

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

  It used to be that following a DT tour online was fun, as you never knew what it was going to be each show. 

Oh so much this. It was like getting the box scores from the night before. I'd follow up on shows that I would never attend. There was just such a level of fan engagement.

Has there been any engagement by the band with regards to this tour? Are they doing press? Instagram?

What pisses me off about modern DT is that they only engage with their fans when they want to push gear.

There is going to be a live stream in a few days to promote the tour.

The band members do engage here and there although I get your point in general. MM is pretty active on FB. JR has his patreon and posts a lot on IG. JM has been a recluse for years so that isn't new. JP is way better with engagement now than he was when MP was in the band. Is anyone asking for more engagement from JLB at this point?

I think they're doing fine for a group of 60 year old guys who didn't grow up with social media apps. The best was when they kicked off ADTOE. They did a free album signing. JR and JP did clinics at Guitar Center. Then, even when they released DOT there was a cool listening party and signing. I think maybe covid had a hangover for DT15 but overall it hasn't been terrible.

[Trav]

How much "fan engagement" so they need or do you really want?  They're pretty established, they have longtime hardcore fans. They have a legacy. I don't think gaining new fans is their goal now as much as just creating, enjoying themselves and making some money. It sounds cold and cynical, but I would be they same way if I were in their shoes.

And if people have a problem with them pushing their gear and stuff they are selling, they need a retirement plan. Eddie Van Halen was the same way in the last 10 years of his life.

[Metro]

Gear sells. Records don't, and clearly tickets aren't either. Gotta pay the bills somehow.

I am still contemplating this one. I liked the first leg of the NA tour so I am willing to see second but sitting through AAL is a big ask. Tosin is a great player and an innovator so nothing against him but I don't really want to sit through a 45m set. The only familiarity I have with Devin Townsend is the Vai album Sex & Religion. Not a fan of that vocal style.

You could always show up after their sets.  But for Devin, if all you heard was the Vai album, you are in for something quite different.

which Devin album do you recommend I start with to get a good intro to his music?

I'm gonna hijack this question and say Epicloud is the best starting point. It covers all of his styles. You got poppy stuff, rocking stuff, heavy stuff, lighter stuff, all kinds of stuff.

The Vai album is an accurate representation of Dev when he was 19. It's a terrible representation of him overall. Totally get why you wouldn't like it.

[Setlist Scotty]

I don't think gaining new fans is their goal now as much as just creating, enjoying themselves and making some money. It sounds cold and cynical, but I would be they same way if I were in their shoes.

Of course their goal is always about gaining new fans. If it wasn't, then they wouldn't bother doing interviews or other things to promote themselves or their new album. If what you say is true, they wouldn't worry about signing with a label because they could just simply distribute it themselves since they've already got their name established.

You can be sure that if Metallica had offered them one of the opening slots on their current tour, DT would jump on it at a moment's notice. Why? Because it allows them to play to another band's audience and gain new fans. Same with when they play those massive fesitvals in Europe and South America. Their goal will always be about gaining new fans because that's what's going to help keep them going financially as older fans lose interest or (unfortunately) die off.

[KevShmev]

How much "fan engagement" so they need or do you really want?  They're pretty established, they have longtime hardcore fans. They have a legacy. I don't think gaining new fans is their goal now as much as just creating, enjoying themselves and making some money. It sounds cold and cynical, but I would be they same way if I were in their shoes.

And if people have a problem with them pushing their gear and stuff they are selling, they need a retirement plan. Eddie Van Halen was the same way in the last 10 years of his life.

I would argue that a little is not a lot to ask for (but we should NOT expect it).  When Mike Portnoy was in Dream Theater, he would often post news on his forum (meaning that was the first place you'd see it; I think this was before he was on social media like he is now).  When (yes I am going to bring her up again) Taylor Swift has any kind of news, she posts it herself on Twitter and/or Instagram.  In both cases, you can tell both wrote it because they both how write how they talk. Neal Morse sends out a monthly newsletter that he writes himself to fans in his Inner Circle. When Dream Theater has news to announce, it comes out on their social media like a carefully worded PR release from their record company.  Zero personal touch.  Now, I am not saying John Petrucci needs to start posting news himself starting tomorrow or sending out a monthly email to fans, but I am simply pointing out several examples of musicians who connect with fans in a real way on a regular basis.  When fans hear news, or even just chatter about anything (like Portnoy talking about his favorite movies) directly from the artists themselves, they feel more of a connection.   Hence, Portnoy, Swift and Morse all have incredibly dedicated and loyal fanbases.

But, again, I go back to it being natural.  You can't do it just to do it, otherwise it will feel forced and contrived.  None of the current members of Dream Theater obviously have interest in engaging with fans in any real way, and that is fine. They are not alone in that regard.

[Cool Chris]

I don't follow anyone on social media, so what a band does, or doesn't do, online doesn't impact me much.

I will also say that in the 90s, they became one of my favorite bands solely based on their music (strange to think now that was solely based on two albums). In the early 2000s, I listened to their commentary track on the Live Scenes DVD and watched the Riding the Train of Thought documentary on the Budokan DVD, and they became my favorite group of guys who play music. I don't know how better to say it. DT went from being a couple of CDs with some pictures in liner notes to real people who happen to make music I loved.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

JR puts out a ton of content to engage with his fans. MM does a good job too.

[Skeever]

One of the things that sold me was the audio commentary on the DVD release of Live in Tokyo/Once in a Livetime. I was already becoming a huge fun before that, but after that they became real people to me. It's impossible to imagine the band doing something like that ever again.