"Official" Lost Not Forgotten (official bootlegs) thread

[Stadler]

Trust me, the audience for these releases is small.

But the audience for these releases are going to be the diehards who want everything and are much more meticulous than the average-joe fan. So no, it's not acceptable.

I think this is right; no matter what the audience size is, you should KNOW that audience and tailor the product accordingly.  You would think the smaller an audience is, the more you'd WANT to cater to them, since the margin for (sales) error is small.   I have a complete set of the Ytsejam releases, and so other than the "new" stuff, I'm not replacing any of the originals simply to "have" this.  It's got to bring SOMETHING to the table, and it sort of sounds like, as directly compared to the old versions, it's taking things off the table.  Not a criticism, since I'm happy with the two I bought, just an observation.

[EPIC Outro]

It's been a while since I posted here. Figure it's time to shake the cobwebs off!

My all-time favorite YTSEJAM release is the Falling Into Infinity demos...

Is there any chance these might get a significant remaster when they are eventually rereleased? I would love to have some of these tracks with better sound quality!

[the_silent_man]

I guess the main thing it brings to the table is a release to streaming services. This is great for people like me who didn't get most of the original run, but would only check out most of them once for curiosity anyway.

Most people I know don't buy CDs anymore (even I only buy a select few a year from my favourite artists) so spending more time and money on packaging etc seems to be less of a priority than 10-15 years ago.
This is a trend I'm seeing across all music and film release. Simpler, more bare bones releases and save the extra stuff for the super deluxe boxset/ earbook etc. Heck, I was annoyed on the release of A View that there was no CD version with the documentary, you had to buy the big boxset to get it.

[hefdaddy42]

Didn't the documentary come with the artbook?

[Max Kuehnau]

Didn't the documentary come with the artbook?

yes it did

[the_silent_man]

Didn't the documentary come with the artbook?

Yes, but that's my point. There was no cd size digipack with the documentary. That would not have been the case 10 years ago. Nowadays seems its either bare bones or fully blown artbook.
I personally did not want to buy the massive artbook that takes up so much room.
Maybe it's just a me problem 

[hefdaddy42]

BTW, I played my kid some of the Majesty stuff on Spotify and they said "Are you sure this is Dream Theater?  It sounds like shit!"

Had to agree.

[MarceloMalulo]

Lost Not Forgotten Archives: Live in Nyc, 1993 Artwork:
https://gfx67.decks.de/decks/gfx/co_large/front/end_s/cj9-hs.jpg
(decks.de)

[The Letter M]

BTW, I played my kid some of the Majesty stuff on Spotify and they said "Are you sure this is Dream Theater?  It sounds like shit!"

Had to agree.

Weren't those tracks all recorded on 8-track and 16-track boards in someone's garage or in the Berklee basements? Of course the recordings themselves sound like shit, but the writing ain't bad for a bunch of 18-20 year-olds. I would have loved to been able to play at that level at that age!

-Marc.

[hefdaddy42]

BTW, I played my kid some of the Majesty stuff on Spotify and they said "Are you sure this is Dream Theater?  It sounds like shit!"

Had to agree.

Weren't those tracks all recorded on 8-track and 16-track boards in someone's garage or in the Berkley basements? Of course the recordings themselves sound like shit, but the writing ain't bad for a bunch of 18-20 year-olds. I would have loved to been able to play at that level at that age!

-Marc.

It's not really about how well they are as individual players.  The songwriting isn't there yet (although you can definitely see the seeds that would later grow into what DT is now). 

The songs just aren't that good, IMO.  I cannot foresee a time when I will ever say "I'm in the mood to listen to the Majesty Demos".

[The Letter M]

BTW, I played my kid some of the Majesty stuff on Spotify and they said "Are you sure this is Dream Theater?  It sounds like shit!"

Had to agree.

Weren't those tracks all recorded on 8-track and 16-track boards in someone's garage or in the Berkley basements? Of course the recordings themselves sound like shit, but the writing ain't bad for a bunch of 18-20 year-olds. I would have loved to been able to play at that level at that age!

-Marc.

It's not really about how well they are as individual players.  The songwriting isn't there yet (although you can definitely see the seeds that would later grow into what DT is now). 

The songs just aren't that good, IMO.  I cannot foresee a time when I will ever say "I'm in the mood to listen to the Majesty Demos".

I agree, they're not mind-blowing songs, but you can definitely hear the early-DT (WDADU and IAW) in them. They're rough around the edges but given what they were back then, four years before WDADU, it's not AWFUL music. I spin the demos occasionally just to remind myself where MP, JP and JM all came from as musicians, hearing them play homage to their influences in such blatant and obvious ways (not that they're not STILL doing that). I feel like I have the urge to listen to it more than, say, Genesis' debut album, which is a sort of pre-classic-era collection of songs much in the same way that the Majesty Demos are for DT (since, for a lot of Genesis fans, the band really begins with Trespass).

Weird to think that in about 3 years, those Majesty Demos will be 40 years old. Time certainly flies by, eh?

-Marc.

[ZirconBlue]

I really like Another Won on Score.  I was hoping they'd dust the other songs off occasionally, so we could get a better-sounding live recording of each (of the demos proper, not the "Berklee demos" snippets on this release).

[The Letter M]

I really like Another Won on Score.  I was hoping they'd dust the other songs off occasionally, so we could get a better-sounding live recording of each (of the demos proper, not the "Berklee demos" snippets on this release).

Out of curiosity, I looked up when the last time was that each of the six Majesty Demos songs were played:

Another Won - April 1st, 2006 at Radio City Music Hall, New York, NY (the SCORE show)
Your Majesty - October 23rd, 2002 at Théâtre de la Mutualité, Paris (only live performance since 1986)
A Vision - October 27th, 1988 at CMJ Metal Marathon 1988 (Gunn Club, Queens, NY, USA)
Two Far - August 16th, 1986 at L'Amour, Brooklyn, NY
Vital Star - October 25th, 1986 at Stage Door, Deer Park, NY, USA
March Of The Tyrant - November 28th, 1993 at The Queen's Hall, Edinburgh (This was only as an instrumental outro to "Only A Matter Of Time" on that tour, otherwise, the last full performance was at the same show that Vital Star was last played).

-Marc.

[MarceloMalulo]

Didn't the documentary come with the artbook?

Yes, but that's my point. There was no cd size digipack with the documentary. That would not have been the case 10 years ago. Nowadays seems its either bare bones or fully blown artbook.
I personally did not want to buy the massive artbook that takes up so much room.
Maybe it's just a me problem 

CD + Blu ray Digipak
https://www.discogs.com/es/release/20970517-Dream-Theater-A-View-From-The-Top-Of-The-World

[gzarruk]

It's cool to listen to the original 6 proper songs from the demo every once in a while. Cry for Freedom was also part of the batch, but they never properly recorded it, sadly.

I'd like to see them bring A Vision back to the set at some point after all these years.

[pg1067]

BTW, I played my kid some of the Majesty stuff on Spotify and they said "Are you sure this is Dream Theater?  It sounds like shit!"

Had to agree.

Weren't those tracks all recorded on 8-track and 16-track boards in someone's garage or in the Berklee basements? Of course the recordings themselves sound like shit, but the writing ain't bad for a bunch of 18-20 year-olds. I would have loved to been able to play at that level at that age!

Probably a 4-track recorder.  It's not so much the recordings that are bad, but most of the songs are what you'd expect from a fledgling band:  primitive and not particularly well-crafted.  Understandable, but it's not stuff that most folks are likely to want to revisit very often.

Weird to think that in about 3 years, those Majesty Demos will be 40 years old. Time certainly flies by, eh?

Especially when you think about stuff that was 40 years old when those songs were written and recorded (stuff by Glenn Miller and Jimmy Dorsey and their orchestras).

Lost Not Forgotten Archives: Live in Nyc, 1993 Artwork:
https://gfx67.decks.de/decks/gfx/co_large/front/end_s/cj9-hs.jpg
(decks.de)

This is one of the few YJR releases I bought.  I originally received a boot of that show on a cassette from a tape trader via the *Prodigy service sometime later in '93.  I had nothing to trade in return, but the guy was nice enough to make me a copy as long as I sent him a cassette and a postage paid envelope.  I'd already heard most everything live by that point, but ACOS totally blew me away, and it was wild hearing how much it changed when it was officially released a couple years later.

[TAC]

This is one of the few YJR releases I bought.  I originally received a boot of that show on a cassette from a tape trader via the *Prodigy service sometime later in '93.  I had nothing to trade in return, but the guy was nice enough to make me a copy as long as I sent him a cassette and a postage paid envelope.  I'd already heard most everything live by that point, but ACOS totally blew me away, and it was wild hearing how much it changed when it was officially released a couple years later.

A B&P (blanks and postage) trade! I was doing a ton of trades by mail during this time. I also had the Limelight show. I actually put ACOS on its own disc to try and break it down. I don't think I was ever able to. They really cleaned that up when they properly recorded.

Oh, and Paul, you're a Helloween fan..during this time Chameleon had been released but was only on import. But I did have a VHS boot from a show they did in either Germany or Japan on the Chameleon tour. I actually dubbed the Chameleon songs onto a cassette so I could listen to them in the car.

[Cool Chris]

I cannot foresee a time when I will ever say "I'm in the mood to listen to the Majesty Demos".

I listened to these once maybe 20 years ago, and this is where I have been at ever since.

I will say that I do enjoy Another Won on Score. If the other songs are comparable to that (I cannot say I recall, 20 years and all that...), I would consider buying a release that has those songs recorded at a Score level of quality.

[TAC]

I will say that I do enjoy Another Won on Score. If the other songs are comparable to that (I cannot say I recall, 20 years and all that...), I would consider buying a release that has those songs recorded at a Score level of quality.

Oh hell yes!


I have literally never heard the Your Majesty from the Lifting Shadows CD. Does that have redone vocals, because James was a trainwreck for actual live performance.

[devieira73]

Unfortunately not. Sure a lot of the Majesty songs does have the potential to be good like the Score's version of Another Won.

[TheRich13]

Don't get me wrong ! I love that these new vinyl releases are coming out , but they're spittin' them out every 2 1/2 weeks it seems !! I'm gonna be broke by the time they're done....I already have more on preorder than I actually received right now ... BTW , anyone have a new promo code for Century Media?
Thanks !!!
Rich

[MarceloMalulo]

LOST NOT FORGOTTEN ARCHIVES: LIVE IN NYC - 1993
From Dream Theater's home state of New York, a homecoming performance at The Limelight, one of NYC's most iconic clubs of the '90s. Including the epic fan-favorite 'A Change of Seasons', this set from the quintet's original tour supporting 'Images and Words' showcases one of Dream Theater's earliest live recorded performances. Re-mastered and available for the first time on vinyl, the release of this classic 1993 concert becomes a quintessential release in the Lost Not Forgotten Archives.
Pre-order CD: https://www.insideoutshop.de/Item/Dream_Theater_-_Lost_Not_Forgotten_Archives-_Live_in_NYC_-_1993_-Special_Edition_2CD_Digipak-/16921
Pre-order vinyl: https://www.insideoutshop.de/Item/Dream_Theater_-_Lost_Not_Forgotten_Archives-_Live_in_NYC_-_1993_-Gatefold_black_3LP-2CD-/16922

[ZirconBlue]

Weren't those tracks all recorded on 8-track and 16-track boards in someone's garage or in the Berklee basements? Of course the recordings themselves sound like shit, but the writing ain't bad for a bunch of 18-20 year-olds. I would have loved to been able to play at that level at that age!

Probably a 4-track recorder.  It's not so much the recordings that are bad, but most of the songs are what you'd expect from a fledgling band:  primitive and not particularly well-crafted.  Understandable, but it's not stuff that most folks are likely to want to revisit very often.

IIRC from the liner notes, they had two 4-track recorders.

[gzarruk]

LOST NOT FORGOTTEN ARCHIVES: LIVE IN NYC - 1993
From Dream Theater's home state of New York, a homecoming performance at The Limelight, one of NYC's most iconic clubs of the '90s. Including the epic fan-favorite 'A Change of Seasons', this set from the quintet's original tour supporting 'Images and Words' showcases one of Dream Theater's earliest live recorded performances. Re-mastered and available for the first time on vinyl, the release of this classic 1993 concert becomes a quintessential release in the Lost Not Forgotten Archives.
Pre-order CD: https://www.insideoutshop.de/Item/Dream_Theater_-_Lost_Not_Forgotten_Archives-_Live_in_NYC_-_1993_-Special_Edition_2CD_Digipak-/16921
Pre-order vinyl: https://www.insideoutshop.de/Item/Dream_Theater_-_Lost_Not_Forgotten_Archives-_Live_in_NYC_-_1993_-Gatefold_black_3LP-2CD-/16922

[Setlist Scotty]

Weren't those tracks all recorded on 8-track and 16-track boards in someone's garage or in the Berklee basements? Of course the recordings themselves sound like shit, but the writing ain't bad for a bunch of 18-20 year-olds. I would have loved to been able to play at that level at that age!

Probably a 4-track recorder.  It's not so much the recordings that are bad, but most of the songs are what you'd expect from a fledgling band:  primitive and not particularly well-crafted.  Understandable, but it's not stuff that most folks are likely to want to revisit very often.

IIRC from the liner notes, they had two 4-track recorders.

Correct.

[Cool Chris]

I listened to that 1993 show once. Enjoyed it but tend to like my live albums with a bit more... polish, and less... bootleggy? Curious what this will sound like.

[TAC]

I listened to that 1993 show once. Enjoyed it but tend to like my live albums with a bit more... polish, and less... bootleggy? Curious what this will sound like.

It's not the world's greatest bootleg or anything, but this show is a MUST BUY! The Ytsejam version sounds great!

[Ben_Jamin]

I listened to that 1993 show once. Enjoyed it but tend to like my live albums with a bit more... polish, and less... bootleggy? Curious what this will sound like.

It's not the world's greatest bootleg or anything, but this show is a MUST BUY! The Ytsejam version sounds great!

I agree. My main reason I bought the Ytsejam release was to hear Eve with the samples, and also the early version of A Change of Seasons. I also think it's a pretty decent sounding recording, it does sound good enough for me.

[TAC]

I listened to that 1993 show once. Enjoyed it but tend to like my live albums with a bit more... polish, and less... bootleggy? Curious what this will sound like.

It's not the world's greatest bootleg or anything, but this show is a MUST BUY! The Ytsejam version sounds great!

I agree. My main reason I bought the Ytsejam release was to hear Eve with the samples, and also the early version of A Change of Seasons. I also think it's a pretty decent sounding recording, it does sound good enough for me.

I meant that the actual bootleg isn't the greatest, but the Ytsejam release is excellent.

[Ben_Jamin]

I listened to that 1993 show once. Enjoyed it but tend to like my live albums with a bit more... polish, and less... bootleggy? Curious what this will sound like.

It's not the world's greatest bootleg or anything, but this show is a MUST BUY! The Ytsejam version sounds great!

I agree. My main reason I bought the Ytsejam release was to hear Eve with the samples, and also the early version of A Change of Seasons. I also think it's a pretty decent sounding recording, it does sound good enough for me.

I meant that the actual bootleg isn't the greatest, but the Ytsejam release is excellent.

Oh, okay...didn't realize you were talking about the bootleg of the official bootleg release.

[Setlist Scotty]

Oh, okay...didn't realize you were talking about the bootleg of the official bootleg release.

I think what Timmay was referring to was the original "The Dance of Eternity" bootleg, which was a silver CD set that was released at the end of 1993 and was of the same Limelight show (March 4, 1993). Actually the sound quality is pretty impressive given that it was an audience bootleg. Many people including myself were under the impression that it was a soundboard because it sounded that good. But still it is not anywhere near as good as the legitimate soundboard from MP's archive.

[TAC]

I got the show trading back in the day. I didn't know it by an actual Bootleg name, or a silver CD. I got it on cassette. Yes, the show was more than listenable, but I think when they pressed it for the silver CD, it was cleaned up even more.

[Stadler]

The Oval Office has always been my holy grail of places to visit... I think given the choice I'd take a visit to Mike's archive. 

[gzarruk]

Now that the band are back on tour and aren't playing these songs, I'd love to see another release similar to A Dramatic Tour of Events Select Board Mixes/Happy Holidays where they include all the tracks they've performed live the last few tours that haven't seen an official live release from this lineup yet.

Not counting the songs they're currently playing or anything from TA (since I think/hope that'll be a separate release), we have:

Afterlife (2015)
Don't Look Past Me (2017)
A Change of Seasons (2017)
Burning My Soul (2015)
Hell's Kitchen (2017)
Panic Attack (2015)
Constant Motion (2015)
Wither (2015)
The Bigger Picture (2017)
Behind the Veil (2015)

Just make a proper tracklist out of it, and you have a killer 80-minute live set they could fit into one CD and release through the LNFA

[pg1067]

I'd buy that.  The only dud on the list is DLPM, and I've never personally seen Wither or BTV live.