Dream Theater: The Astonishing (now with moment of betrayal!)

[noxon]

The timeline doesn't add up though - the mastering was done early december, but the gift of music was already sent out in the 4:07 version in mid november.

[Panar]

The timeline doesn't add up though - the mastering was done early december, but the gift of music was already sent out in the 4:07 version in mid november.

Yes that was my thought. Noxon, do you have the final product?? I mean the digipack with booklets and all that? If yes, the TGOM is exactly the same with the single from RR ?

[BlobVanDam]

The timeline doesn't add up though - the mastering was done early december, but the gift of music was already sent out in the 4:07 version in mid november.

Run a song from your copy through TT Dynamic Range Meter so I can see if it's the same master as what I've got, because the version I've got has a dynamic range of at least DR8, which would make it their most dynamic in a long time.

[ariich]

I asked Rich Chycki on Twitter whether The Gift Of Music was pre or post final master and he said post master.

He may well have just meant post-mastering that song alone, rather than the whole album. Though of course, they presumably will have mastered it the same as they were planning to do the whole album, so I don't think it really matters.

Also just to point out that in the "single" version, the last 10 seconds or so are just the final chord fading out. They could very easily have re-done this to happen more quickly in order to fit the whole of Act I on a CD. That doesn't suggest a different mix or master at all.

[noxon]

BlobVanDam: my copy is the CD now. The entire CD is at between DR7 and DR8.

-----------------------------------------------
Statistics for:   1-03 The Gift Of Music.m4a
Number of Samples:   10593408
-----------------------------------------------

      Left      Right

Peak value:   -0.11 dB       -0.06 dB
Avg RMS:   -8.69 dB       -8.59 dB
DR channel:   7.34 dB       7.40 dB
-----------------------------------------------

Official DR value:   DR7
===============================================

[Kotowboy]

So DR1 is like [||||||||||||||||||||||]

And Dr14 is like /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

? Or other way around ?

[noxon]

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=

[BlobVanDam]

Can you check Three Days, because I tested that one the other day and have the figures on me without having to switch computers.

[Kotowboy]

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/68265

wow.

[BlobVanDam]

So DR1 is like [||||||||||||||||||||||]

And Dr14 is like /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

? Or other way around ?

Death Magnetic is something like DR2 in places. The Black Album is around DR10 from memory. Need I say more?

Ninja'd by yourself.

[Kotowboy]

I was obviously going to check that.

If The Astonishing is DR7 it should sound OK . It's on the far end of the "Bad" scale.

But The Gift Of Music doesn't sound too squashed.

[noxon]

-----------------------------------------------
Statistics for:   1-10 Three Days.wav
Number of Samples:   9890160
-----------------------------------------------

      Left      Right

Peak value:   -0.05 dB       -0.00 dB
Avg RMS:   -9.30 dB       -9.50 dB
DR channel:   7.31 dB       7.44 dB
-----------------------------------------------

Official DR value:   DR7
===============================================



and for the whole album:

-----------------------------------------------
Statistics for:   file.wav
Number of Samples:   345671088
-----------------------------------------------

      Left      Right

Peak value:   over       over
Avg RMS:   -9.92 dB       -9.97 dB
DR channel:   7.27 dB       7.38 dB
-----------------------------------------------

Official DR value:   DR7
===============================================

[Kotowboy]

So it's not terrible but could be a bit better ?

[thosava]

So it's only one point above DT12?

[BlobVanDam]

-----------------------------------------------
Statistics for:   1-10 Three Days.wav
Number of Samples:   9890160
-----------------------------------------------

      Left      Right

Peak value:   -0.05 dB       -0.00 dB
Avg RMS:   -9.30 dB       -9.50 dB
DR channel:   7.31 dB       7.44 dB
-----------------------------------------------

Official DR value:   DR7
===============================================

Great, thanks.

I get-
Peak value: over       over
RMS: -9.5        -9.7
DR: 7.6         7.7

Perhaps there was slight limiting/compression applied between the two versions, but there's not much difference between the two.
And I'm very happy with the sound on the version I have.

So it's only one point above DT12?

The DR number alone isn't the be-all of comparison, because TA sounds a lot better. It even sounds better than the HDTracks version of DT12.

[Quarter_Cask]

DR value is important but not the only aspect of good sound. there are albums with DR6-7 which actually sound pretty good and vice-versa. DR has nothing to do with shitty drum sound and quiet cymbals 

[shadow1psc]

DR value is more like a tangible comparison of what you'd already hear. A way to quantify how badly something was compressed and pushed to the noise ceiling vs. other albums. After DR 6 or 7 you start to lose the ability to really distinguish how much dynamic range might be in a recording (unless you have a really good listening setup). What it tells us (the people who don't have the album yet) is that the dynamic range of the album is live and well, has room to breathe, and confirms a lot of the reviews saying as such.

[mikemangioy]

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/90578

For instance, this is one of the best sounding album of last year, and it's just DR6. But it sounds amazing.

dt12 was also DR6. It did not sound amazing.

[BlobVanDam]

DR value is more like a tangible comparison of what you'd already hear. A way to quantify how badly something was compressed and pushed to the noise ceiling vs. other albums. After DR 6 or 7 you start to lose the ability to really distinguish how much dynamic range might be in a recording (unless you have a really good listening setup). What it tells us (the people who don't have the album yet) is that the dynamic range of the album is live and well, has room to breathe, and confirms a lot of the reviews saying as such.

Yep. DR value alone is not an indicator of how good or bad an album will sound (unless it's below a certain point), it's supporting evidence most of the time. The number alone doesn't give the full story of what is causing that figure. SDOIT and FII don't return that great a DR value, but they sound great. WDADU has a much higher DR value, and that does nothing to help it.

[ariich]

https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/90578

For instance, this is one of the best sounding album of last year, and it's just DR6. But it sounds amazing.

dt12 was also DR6. It did not sound amazing.

That's really interesting. Coma Ecliptic is definitely an excellent sounding album.

[Fritzinger]

I have no idea what you all are talking about.. But don't bother explaining it, I know it has something to do with loudness war, and English is not my first language so I won't understand it properly anyway..

[hefdaddy42]

Hopefully there won't be any

[Quarter_Cask]

well if you will hear the itunes version of TGoM you'll get the idea how the album will sound. me personally, it sounds pretty bad. not as bad as previous but still pretty bad. especially the drums/cymblas - i just can't get over them 

[thosava]

But that has to do with the mixing right?

[Quarter_Cask]

and mic-ing and band's desire/goal etc.

[emtee]

The constant comments on the drums and cymbals from people who have heard this is really starting to make me concerned.

[thosava]

It seems very divided. Some people say it sounds fantastic, and other say it sounds bad...

[Podaar]

...and is coloring your first experience with their bias, emtee.

Mine as well. I really need to stay out of these threads and let go others opinions.

[hefdaddy42]

I'm not too worried, the drums will be

[emtee]

...and is coloring your first experience with their bias, emtee.

Mine as well. I really need to stay out of these threads and let go others opinions.

Very true. Unfortunately though there is a track record so the 'ol adage fool me once...fool me twice is giving me pause.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Honestly if blob enjoys the sound I'll probably be fairly satisfied

[Awaken]

I'm not sure I understand the concerns from those who 'haven't heard' the album.  There is a single release of the Gift of Music on Amazon which has been confirmed to be post-master.  Moment of Betrayal was only a radio broadcast and subsequent youtube quality, so I somewhat understand the concern there.  The mp3 of TGoM should be a barometer as to how you'll like the sound on the new album, not other people's reviews/comments. 

[TH1RT3EN]

Hopefully there won't be any

I'm not too worried, the drums will be

Maybe you should see a doctor, I'm afraid your PMU Syndrome is getting worse every

[GasparXR]

Hopefully there won't be any

I'm not too worried, the drums will be

Maybe you should see a doctor, I'm afraid your PMU Syndrome is getting worse every

I think we'll all be fine as long as we can extrapolate from incomplete

[Panar]

I'm not sure I understand the concerns from those who 'haven't heard' the album.  There is a single release of the Gift of Music on Amazon which has been confirmed to be post-master.  Moment of Betrayal was only a radio broadcast and subsequent youtube quality, so I somewhat understand the concern there.  The mp3 of TGoM should be a barometer as to how you'll like the sound on the new album, not other people's reviews/comments.

Your logic is absolutely right. BUT: Judging from the MOB track, the sound is a little different from TGOM. The bass is higher and rounder. So I assume that *maybe* they did some last minute changes to the master. And really the bad quality of a rip doesn't really affects the low frequencies so much.