Dream Theater: The Astonishing (now with moment of betrayal!)

[Enigmachine]

I don't like the word filler, or at least the context it's used in. It's a track written for the sole purpose of filling the length of the album but it doesn't neccesarily imply a track being underwhelming as songs like Black Sabbath's Paranoid are filler as said by the band themselves yet the song is really well-regarded. It seems a lot of people don't consider this when calling something filler.

[shadow1psc]

I feel like the heavy blog guys probably gave one disinterested listen and didn't pay very much attention. From just TGoM and MoB, Myung is loud and clear (not quite as present as DT12), and Mangini is intricate as ever. I could see the 'tired fill' argument, as Mangini really does love to follow scale runs with his toms in the same way, but I don't think it warrants the very harsh criticism received.

[CoT67]

New review from Heavy Blog is Heavy.
https://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/01/21/dream-theater-the-astonishing/
EDIT: people who aren't interested in lukewarm reviews, stay away.

I love how this guy started by praising the band in the first 4 - 5 paragraphs then went straight into bashing them under his brutal critic.
It was so sudden and so unexpected... especially for that 3/5 at the end.

I also wonder how much attention this guy paid to the mix and how he actually listened to it... I can hear Myung on MoB with earphones, even though the bass covers some very low frequencies!

[Kotowboy]

I don't like the word filler, or at least the context it's used in. It's a track written for the sole purpose of filling the length of the album but it doesn't neccesarily imply a track being underwhelming as songs like Black Sabbath's Paranoid are filler as said by the band themselves yet the song is really well-regarded. It seems a lot of people don't consider this when calling something filler.

Quite. The word filler is thrown about by people who use it to mean " I don't like this song ".

[chwik]

I don't like the word filler, or at least the context it's used in. It's a track written for the sole purpose of filling the length of the album but it doesn't neccesarily imply a track being underwhelming as songs like Black Sabbath's Paranoid are filler as said by the band themselves yet the song is really well-regarded. It seems a lot of people don't consider this when calling something filler.

Quite. The word filler is thrown about by people who use it to mean " I don't like this song ".

Using current logic: If filler track = I don't like this song ; then there is a lot of filler bands out there - for my taste anyway.;-)

[shadow1psc]

RE: Filler - I feel like filler is often a personal definition kinda thing, because it's literal definition would be used to describe content in a piece of work that wasn't intended by the creator/artist. Did Dream Theater (Petrucci) absolutely feel like every song on The Astonishing belongs there? Probably. We've long passed the era where I think any outside influence cares about what DT does with their albums. I highly doubt a Road Runner exec was sitting in a dark corner rubbing his hands together and cackling about making them include Act of Faythe.

Petrucci had a story to tell, and he and Rudess created the score to that story. Does that mean a song is filler because you don't like it, or feel like it's out of place? No. I don't expect all 29 tracks to hit the mark with every single listener. If you could call anything on the album filler (without having heard them myself), you could maybe make an argument for the NOMAC tracks.

[Enigmachine]

New review from Heavy Blog is Heavy.
https://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/01/21/dream-theater-the-astonishing/
EDIT: people who aren't interested in lukewarm reviews, stay away.

I love how this guy started by praising the band in the first 4 - 5 paragraphs then went straight into bashing them under his brutal critic.
It was so sudden and so unexpected... especially for that 3/5 at the end.

I also wonder how much attention this guy paid to the mix and how he actually listened to it... I can hear Myung on MoB with earphones, even though the bass covers some very low frequencies!

It doesn't seem very well written to me, there's all sorts of inconsistencies in that review.

If you could call anything on the album filler (without having heard them myself), you could maybe make an argument for the NOMAC tracks.

Even those seem to have a defined purpose on the album though.

[noxon]

I don't find any fillers on the album. They all serve a purpose in the story and the emotion it's supposed to build up. Of course, if you don't pay attention to the story, the first few listens it is kinda shocking just how much of the slow piano/vocal filled sections there are on the first half of the album. But i mean - between "The Answer" and "Act of Faythe", he has some very diverse tracks in A Better Life (a heavy rock song), Lord Nafaryus (metal tango), A Savior In the Square and When Your Time Has Come (extremely diverse, going from soft to exceedingly pompus to a rock song). Besides, the "thematic reference" is between Lord Nafaryus, A Savior In The Square and Act of Faythe - because the theme being repeated is kinda Faythes theme - while The Answer is by Gabriel.

And he refers to the filles being worse on CD2 - and precedes to give to an example - A Life Left Behind and Raveskill.. Neither of which are on CD2. And he says he doesn't understand why Ravenskill starts so slowly - did he even pay attention to the story? It makes completely sense when you know what happens there...

[shadow1psc]

Oh I know they definitely do, and it's hard to argue otherwise without having heard them myself, I'm just playing devil's advocate for the sake of semantics. Would the experience be the same story without the NOMAC tracks?

TUNE IN NEXT WEEK TO FIND OUT!

[wideworldofmike]

I absolutely can't get MOB out of my head.

[noxon]

Besides, The Answer - Happy, uplifting.

Act of Faythe - Sad, reflective.

Its not even the same emotion they try to convey - they're from the POV of totally different characters...

[olddtfan51@gmail.com]

I don't get what the reviewer ment by he cant hear Myung's bass. I hear it just fine.

[shadow1psc]

I don't get what the reviewer ment by he cant hear Myung's bass. I hear it just fine.

I think his gen 1 apple earphones and lack of patience served his reviewing skills well 

[Darkstarshades]

Sweet Child O' Mine is widely considered by GNR as a filler and is hated by Slash...

Becomes band's most famous song ever.

[Skeever]

Based on what I've heard, I find the review worryingly accurate. Of course, I'll need to hear for myself, but I'm quickly finding myself in the "bring MP back!" camp.

[Randaran]

https://www.metalwani.com/2016/01/review-dream-theater-the-astonishing.html

I haven't seen anyone else comment on this bit yet.

But I will say the when compared to the stories told in other concept albums it is pretty straightforward. I felt that there was more emphasis on characters and their relationships rather than in telling an intriguing story. Evidence of this can be found throughout the album through James LaBrie's passionate performances of the characters.

I see this as a very good thing. A major issue I have with most concept albums, including SFAM, is the focus on having big, 'cool' events and shocking plot twists. Even if I like the music, the story itself is often a weak point. By focusing more on the characters than the story itself, DT could potentially avoid this problem.

[Darkstarshades]

The reviewer gave very retarded point of views, many unvalid stuff and otherwise inconsistent.
While I have not heard the album, I choose to trust Noxon and Bosk on how they describe the album, than some angry metal fan.
"Artificial Strings" and "Over the top piano" that part was simply stupid, because you can't tell if he's being sarcastic or serious, which I think was the first.

[Shine]

It's a great song, so I can certainly see it.  Of the tracks I have heard, my favorite would either be Moment of Betrayal or Savior In the Square.

Altering listening to Moment of Betrayal...

That's not a good sign.

[Darkstarshades]

It's a great song, so I can certainly see it.  Of the tracks I have heard, my favorite would either be Moment of Betrayal or Savior In the Square.

Altering listening to Moment of Betrayal...

That's not a good sign.

"Of the tracks I have heard"

[Shine]

Filler means "the album is really long. These songs aren't as good as the other songs. They bring the average quality of the album down. The album would be improved by removing them."

Edit:

For example: Images and Words, in my mind, has no filler songs. Each song is superb. It's also (one of?) Dream Theaters shortest albums. I think it's their best album. I think Awake, an album with many songs just as good as those found on Images and Words, is a worse album because it has a few songs that aren't as good. Those songs (Caught in a Web, for example) are "filler" to me.

[Enigmachine]

It's a great song, so I can certainly see it.  Of the tracks I have heard, my favorite would either be Moment of Betrayal or Savior In the Square.

Altering listening to Moment of Betrayal...

That's not a good sign.

"Of the tracks I have heard"

Speaking of which, what were the 9 songs included in the promo of the album (if that can be answered)?

[bosk1]

Speaking of which, what were the 9 songs included in the promo of the album (if that can be answered)?

With all that has been revealed by this point, I don't see why not.  I mean, we have reviews that discuss the tracks.  So I will include a bit of detail.
1.  Descent of the NOMACS -- NOMAC noise as an intro to the album.  It makes sense.  Not a big, bombastic opening.  Just sound effects to set the stage.
2.  Dystopian Overture -- This is the true "opening" of the album.  What can I say?  It is an overture.  DT have written some nice overtures, and this may just be their best.  Lots of interesting new sounds I am not used to hearing from DT.  The choir really adds a lot to the atmosphere.
3.  The Gift of Music -- You all have heard it.
4.  Lord Nafaryus -- Oh, just...YES!  Nice military march-y type theme going throughout.  Very appropriate to the subject matter.  There is a palpable Queen influence here, especially in the vocal department.  It is big.  It is grand sounding.  It is just a lot of fun.
5.  A Savior in the Square - When Your Time Has Come -- LOTS of really cool parts in this one.  This is one of those songs that has cool themes show up, and then moves on to something else.  It does that frequently, but seamlessly.  Really nice track from start to finish.  And, for this album, a long track.  The opening, to me, has a Count of Tuscany vibe.
6.  Chosen -- Soaring ballad with great vocals and piano work.  For the most part, I prefer DT's heavier songs to their "ballady" type songs.  But they have written some incredibly strong ones in the Mangini era, and this is another one.
7.  Moment of Betrayal -- You all have heard this one, too.  I really like it.  Piano, dat riff!, ...soaring vocals from James.  Yeah, it just works.
8.  The Path That Divides -- Major plot point seems to happen here.  I can tell that even without having the whole story.  The music is dark and moody.  Nice track.
9.  Our New World -- Major ear worm.  Many will have the chorus stuck in their heads the week after release, I guarantee it.

[BlobVanDam]

It's a great song, so I can certainly see it.  Of the tracks I have heard, my favorite would either be Moment of Betrayal or Savior In the Square.

Altering listening to Moment of Betrayal...

That's not a good sign.

Of the tracks I've heard, Moment of Betrayal is one of my least favourites, so don't worry about bosky.

[Kotowboy]

Hold up !!

I'm positive I posted a while ago that I guessed MOB would be the next release.

I'll see if I can find it.

[Skeever]

It just feels lacking in momentum to me, like the went down a list and checked off all the boxes for things that are supposed to be in a operatic metal song, but then forgot to write an actual song that included any basic tension building or release.

[dparrott]

CIAW? Filler???  What the what???

[bosk1]

I went back and filled in a bit of description for the 9 songs.  Sort of a very cursory track-by-track "review."

[Shine]

CIAW? Filler???  What the what???

Yeah, it and Innocence Faded are my two least favorite songs on the album. Cut those two and I think you have a much better album overall. In my opinion.

[devieira73]

This is legit and can thus be shared, right?

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/6851509/dream-theater-moment-of-betrayal-song-premiere-the-astonishing-album

(new song, "Moment of Betrayal")

Maybe you didn 't realise it, but this version of MoB is far better quality wise  than Eddie Trunks one.

[shadow1psc]

This is legit and can thus be shared, right?

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/6851509/dream-theater-moment-of-betrayal-song-premiere-the-astonishing-album

(new song, "Moment of Betrayal")

Maybe you didn 't realise it, but this version of MoB is far better quality wise  than Eddie Trunks one.

I'm pretty sure everyone realized it 

[BlobVanDam]

CIAW? Filler???  What the what???

Yeah, it and Innocence Faded are my two least favorite songs on the album. Cut those two and I think you have a much better album overall. In my opinion.

Cut those two and you'd have an even weaker album that what it already is, in my opinion.
Plus, being the weakest track doesn't automatically make something filler. In the case of TA, in many regards I'm not sure what would even constitute filler. Perhaps with over two hours of music it's not all going to be their best, but it will all serve a purpose, and there's no need to "fill" anything when you're well beyond the necessary amount of music even for two discs. The only instrumentals are overtures to the acts, and the rest are all vocal tracks written specifically to tell a part of a story. Very little if any padding either.

[devieira73]

Just checking. .. 
the talk was too much in the filler thing 

[Shine]

Cut those two and you'd have an even weaker album that what it already is, in my opinion.

Agree to disagree.  😉

In the case of TA, in many regards I'm not sure what would even constitute filler. Perhaps with over two hours of music it's not all going to be their best, but it will all serve a purpose

I suppose that's where the author of the review disagrees.

[erwinrafael]

Can not hear Myung. Mangini does same fills over and over.

So they really are just copying and pasting their old negative comments without even bothering to listen to the actual music.

[BlobVanDam]

I give no credibility to any review that thinks Act of Faythe is filler that doesn't need to exist, when it's such a damn beautiful song.
The comments about the bass guitar aren't entirely unfounded, as it could be more prominent, but they're never close to absent either. When you have to fit that much into a mix, not everything is going to be upfront all the time.