Dream Theater: The Astonishing (now with moment of betrayal!)

[obelix5150]

New review from Heavy Blog is Heavy.
https://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/01/21/dream-theater-the-astonishing/
EDIT: people who aren't interested in lukewarm reviews, stay away.

[rumborak]

This is legit and can thus be shared, right?

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/6851509/dream-theater-moment-of-betrayal-song-premiere-the-astonishing-album

(new song, "Moment of Betrayal")

[Enigmachine]

With all the snare talk, I just listened to Circus Maximus new song "The Weight" and thought the snare sounded approx the same as MM's in the Astonishing. Might it be that the "progressive rock/metal snare" is supposed to sound this way today? Also, I wonder if people will show the same "emotional" degree when it comes to Circus Maximus snare drum or if this is a preconcived notion against MM with the history of MP in the band. Just curious on a general basis.

Personally, I have no skin in the snare game, although I understand both sides of the argument - I belive it comes down to personal preference.

I have never heard anyone complain about the Circus Maxumus snare even though, as you say, it is similar to MM's. In fact, I would say that TGoM and MoB sound better than CM's 'The Weight'.

[rab7]

New review from Heavy Blog is Heavy.
https://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/01/21/dream-theater-the-astonishing/

Ah, I was tired of hearing endless positivity...

Regardless, I'll try my best to forget everything I read in this review when I finally listen.

EDIT: Can bosk or Noxon confirm whether his complaints are valid, or is he just complaining for the sake of complaining?

[T-ski]

With all the snare talk, I just listened to Circus Maximus new song "The Weight" and thought the snare sounded approx the same as MM's in the Astonishing. Might it be that the "progressive rock/metal snare" is supposed to sound this way today? Also, I wonder if people will show the same "emotional" degree when it comes to Circus Maximus snare drum or if this is a preconcived notion against MM with the history of MP in the band. Just curious on a general basis.

Personally, I have no skin in the snare game, although I understand both sides of the argument - I belive it comes down to personal preference.

for me it's not just the snare, all of his drums sound bad, especially the bass.

[MirrorMask]

I feel having the song title in the chorus (and repeated so many times) is a bit cheesy.  Those lines could have been used to add more to the story.

Yeah.. That's one of the things i don't like about DT12. Out of the non-instrumental songs they all use the title in the chorus except Illumination Theory. (sometimes it works, other times it feels forced.)

Haven't heard the specific song yet, but... isn't this always the rule with every kind and style of music, with the odd alternative (no title mentioned, the title in a random moment of the lyrics) being the exception?

[Enigmachine]

New review from Heavy Blog is Heavy.
https://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/01/21/dream-theater-the-astonishing/

Damn, sounds pretty negative. The score at the end (3/5) seems pretty high for how the review reads.

[mikemangioy]

New review from Heavy Blog is Heavy.
https://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/01/21/dream-theater-the-astonishing/

Now, this is an example of a good critic. I bashed the italian stuff before, because it was basically calling the album disappointing, just for the lack of metal. This has a point, and one that kind of worries too. But so far, only polarising reviews: either really good or really bad, as predicted by Noxon.

[chwik]

New review from Heavy Blog is Heavy.
https://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/01/21/dream-theater-the-astonishing/

I pretty much disagree with a lot that reviewer writes and it seems to me that he only likes the more metal parts of DT. My initial sentiment of TA is more in the line with Noxon. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[jakepriest]

Wow that review slammed Mangini hard. Though I can see why because TGOM and MOB were incredibly uninteresting when it comes to drums.

[rumborak]

Am I missing something? I just posted a new track from the album, but nobody replies to it? 

[vazquez]

New review from Heavy Blog is Heavy.
https://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/01/21/dream-theater-the-astonishing/

"Instead, it's a puerile attempt at a grand gesture that ultimately falls on its face, caught too close to the sun with wax spilling over, giving all its features the same, bland, indecipherable structure."

Ouch... 

Interesting how critics diverge about some questions. One says one thing is amazing, the other says the same thing sucks...

A polarizing album?

Anyway, I always think it´s strange when they say - "if this album was shorter, 1/3 of his total time, it would be great...". It´s like "If the Ninth Symphony were only the first and fourth movement, it would be better" or something like that.

[noxon]

Yeah, when one of his criticisms of the album is "why does this ballad need to exist when we just had that ballad"... They're quite different, emotionally and texturally, and serve as character introductions. But it is as I predicted...

[noxon]

Am I missing something? I just posted a new track from the album, but nobody replies to it? 

It's been discussed for hours already.

[Train of Naught]

Am I missing something? I just posted a new track from the album, but nobody replies to it? 

It was posted 2 or 3 times before  Both the billboard link and the official youtube link on their youtube channel

[rumborak]

Oh. Well then, carry on

[bosk1]

Dunno if this means anything yet, but they didn't put MoB in the second video slot on the website...

You are correct.  And I know what is there. 

[RMGadelha]

Yeah, when one of his criticisms of the album is "why does this ballad need to exist when we just had that ballad"... They're quite different, emotionally and texturally, and serve as character introductions. But it is as I predicted...

To me it seemed like it didn't matter if the ballads were good or not, but the amount of ballads he listened to. I actually don't care, because I like DT ballads.

[Enigmachine]

New review from Heavy Blog is Heavy.
https://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/01/21/dream-theater-the-astonishing/

I pretty much disagree with a lot that reviewer writes and it seems to me that he only likes the more metal parts of DT. My initial sentiment of TA is more in the line with Noxon. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Hell, I haven't even listened anything but TGoM, MoB and the trailer and I already disagree hard with the statements about JM and MM.

Yeah, when one of his criticisms of the album is "why does this ballad need to exist when we just had that ballad"... They're quite different, emotionally and texturally, and serve as character introductions. But it is as I predicted...

Oh yeah, that point as well. Going by his statement, no two songs can be in remotely the same style or mood which of course is ridiculous. I get the feeling that the reviewer hadn't quite let the album sink in.

[shadow1psc]

On the topic of Circus Maximus and the drum sound, I don't mind the snare, but holy crap did they kill those toms... Sounds like he's hitting paper   

[ariich]

Yeah, when one of his criticisms of the album is "why does this ballad need to exist when we just had that ballad"... They're quite different, emotionally and texturally, and serve as character introductions. But it is as I predicted...

I didn't read the whole thing, but it seems he's also judging it as a normal album, with his comments about filler tracks and so on, rather than as a rock opera. In fairness though, he admits right up front that unlike what he would usually do, he DID review in the context of DT's catalogue. I do find that a bit strange though.

[ErHaO]

An album of this scope that deviates from their regular material is bound to be polarizing. It will be interesting to see how this one will end upfor me, as many ballad-esque pieces can be extremely hit or miss for me. When a ballad does not connect, I am likely bored to death, whereas a subpar metal song at least has some energy or pace to it most of the time. I like Mangini's drumming in the latest song a lot and thought gift of music was good too, so I am not worried there.

Also, to some extent there are always "bad" reviews for any album. I recently stumbled upon old reviews of Maiden's AMOLAD and there were a few 5/10's of more well known outlets, but I think it is widely considered a fan favourite in general. And still, a 3/5 is by no means a bad review in the end.

[jakepriest]

I think The Human Equation can also be considered a rock opera, yet there are no filler tracks there imo, so the criticism the reviewer made about filler tracks seems valid to me.

[Shadow2222]

Wow, thanks rumborak for sharing that Billboard article. Even though we've heard the song, this is honestly the most exciting piece of news to come out of it:

"Other things could come out of it because the story is very rich as far as the characters and plot, so a video game, novel or anything else might happen; a movie or even a musical," says Petrucci. "A bunch of those things I mentioned are in the works, and as they get closer we'll reveal the schedule of [release]."

I always thought he was just spit-balling ideas, but it sounds like some are already going to happen!

[Progmetty]

Would have figured he'd wait to see if enough people would like the album so much as to prompt creating something based on it in a different medium.

[Shadow2222]

Would have figured he'd wait to see if enough people would like the album so much as to prompt creating something based on it in a different medium.

Yeah, but I suppose those decisions need to be made in advance so that the finished product comes out while people are still hyped up about it (meaning, IMO, within 1-2 years after the album). It's risky, but I think it is the right call.

[rumborak]

I think The Human Equation can also be considered a rock opera, yet there are no filler tracks there imo, so the criticism the reviewer made about filler tracks seems valid to me.

I find it a weird criticism of the criticism as well. Quite a few bands' double albums suffer from the filler problem. Whether it actually applies to this album remains to be seen, but is a common and perfectly valid criticism overall.

[rab7]

I think The Human Equation can also be considered a rock opera, yet there are no filler tracks there imo, so the criticism the reviewer made about filler tracks seems valid to me.

The thing is, Lucassen needed 20 tracks to tell the story, and used 20 tracks. If THE could be told in 10 tracks then there would be 10 tracks of filler.

If DT needed 34 tracks to tell the story, and used 34 tracks, then that's not filler.

[ErHaO]

I think The Human Equation can also be considered a rock opera, yet there are no filler tracks there imo, so the criticism the reviewer made about filler tracks seems valid to me.

That is because you like the music. Filler is an empty word in context trying to convey your opinion to someone else, as people can also say DT12 was 50% filler because they only liked half the songs, for example.

[rumborak]

rab7, but you haven't heard the album, this guy has. I mean, he obviously has far more basis for his criticism than you have for the meta-criticism.

[noxon]

How about me then? 

[ariich]

I think The Human Equation can also be considered a rock opera, yet there are no filler tracks there imo, so the criticism the reviewer made about filler tracks seems valid to me.

I find it a weird criticism of the criticism as well. Quite a few bands' double albums suffer from the filler problem. Whether it actually applies to this album remains to be seen, but is a common and perfectly valid criticism overall.

I'm not talking about it being a double album, I'm talking about it being a rock opera. The Human Equation has tracks I wouldn't listen to on their own, but as a rock opera it is well paced and everything contributes well to the story, so no filler. I'm just pointing out that the reviewer is judging the album a certain way that it's not necessarily intended. Wasn't a criticism as such.

[bosk1]

meta-criticism

whoa

[rumborak]

I mean, to make an analogy with the film world, the guy is criticizing the pacing of the album. They are trying to tell a story, and when you do that, the pacing becomes very important. Once again, I can't at all say whether the criticism is valid, but in general, criticizing an album based on whether or not it paces well, or had too much filler, is a complete fine aspect to criticize.

[rab7]

rab7, but you haven't heard the album, this guy has. I mean, he obviously has far more basis for his criticism than you have for the meta-criticism.

You're right. What I was really asking was for the others to validate my own personal bias