New Live Release: BREAKING THE FOURTH WALL discussion thread

[Lucien]

 

[Rodni Demental]

I hate to say this, but although I was really looking forward to this DVD, the mixing of the orchestra really, really bothers me. In the SDV video, from 2:49 you can see the orchestra playing but you can barely hear them. And I have a pretty great stereo set. I had to strain to hear them on both my stereo set and on my decent headphones (Sennheiser HD205). The mixing of the Orchestra on Score was way better. I'm really disappointed.

Good god man, I don't agree with using youtube as a scapegoat to blame all sound issues on, but at the very least wait til the DVD comes out to hear it properly. Simple fact is, it's too soon to know for sure. I bet it's not too soon for people to preemptively judge the entire performance based on two songs with youtube encoding though. It might very well be a fair representation of the mix, but it still won't be identical to the native sound that the DVD will output. I'm sure the discussions will be all over this forum in about a week and a half.

Also, when you said SDV it properly confused me aswell.

[cramx3]

Yea, I think youtube gives a good idea of the mix, but the blu-ray will have the definitive sound and until we hear that, we should reserve our judgments on how this will sound.

[jammindude]

I'm not judging the final product, but I do agree that when I heard the clip, I could not hear the orchestra *AT ALL*. 

[Onno]

I hate to say this, but although I was really looking forward to this DVD, the mixing of the orchestra really, really bothers me. In the SDV video, from 2:49 you can see the orchestra playing but you can barely hear them. And I have a pretty great stereo set. I had to strain to hear them on both my stereo set and on my decent headphones (Sennheiser HD205). The mixing of the Orchestra on Score was way better. I'm really disappointed.

Good god man, I don't agree with using youtube as a scapegoat to blame all sound issues on, but at the very least wait til the DVD comes out to hear it properly. Simple fact is, it's too soon to know for sure. I bet it's not too soon for people to preemptively judge the entire performance based on two songs with youtube encoding though. It might very well be a fair representation of the mix, but it still won't be identical to the native sound that the DVD will output. I'm sure the discussions will be all over this forum in about a week and a half.

Also, when you said SDV it properly confused me aswell.

Sure I'll wait, but the fact that it's 1080p on Youtube and still doesn't sound very good (with regard to the orchestra mix) does at least say something, don't you think?

[Grizz]

1080p doesn't mean jack diddly shit in terms of audio quality, except that the associated Youtube format has a slightly acceptable bitrate.

[Onno]

Fair enough, I thought the audio qualities on Youtube were directly related to the video qualities.

[Miss Bangkok]

If people can't hear the orchestra it's because they have piss poor hearing. It's loud and clear, especially the strings. It's hilarious when people say things like "I couldn't hear the bass" lol, that's because they don't know how to pick it out in the mix. People like that wouldn't hear it if it bit them in the ballsack.

[Lucien]

If people can't hear the orchestra it's because they have piss poor hearing. It's loud and clear, especially the strings. It's hilarious when people say things like "I couldn't hear the bass" lol, that's because they don't know how to pick it out in the mix. People like that wouldn't hear it if it bit them in the ballsack.

The fact is that it's way quieter than say the keyboards or the guitar. Bringing it up in the mix a bit would be much appreciated, just like the bass. In a band setting, the bass should be nearly as loud or as loud as the guitar. (See: Rush)

[Grizz]

Fair enough, I thought the audio qualities on Youtube were directly related to the video qualities.

Oh, well on Youtube it is. It's pretty low though.

[Onno]

If people can't hear the orchestra it's because they have piss poor hearing. It's loud and clear, especially the strings. It's hilarious when people say things like "I couldn't hear the bass" lol, that's because they don't know how to pick it out in the mix. People like that wouldn't hear it if it bit them in the ballsack.

Well, thanks. I suppose I have piss poor hearing then.

The fact is that it's way quieter than say the keyboards or the guitar. Bringing it up in the mix a bit would be much appreciated, just like the bass. In a band setting, the bass should be nearly as loud or as loud as the guitar. (See: Rush)

Agreed.
When I started the Strange Déjà-Vu video, at first I thought I could hear the orchestra well, but when I listened a bit better I heard that actually almost of it was Jordan's keyboard. That's why I referred to the 2:49 point; at that point there isn't a lot of keyboard, and I have to strain to hear the orchestra there.

[RaiseTheKnife]

As I mentioned before, 2:46 - 2:48 the keyboards are tacit ("not playing anything" for non-music people) and the orchestra is playing something.  Strain all you want, its just simply not in the mix for that portion - as in absent.

[Mosh]

If people can't hear the orchestra it's because they have piss poor hearing. It's loud and clear, especially the strings. It's hilarious when people say things like "I couldn't hear the bass" lol, that's because they don't know how to pick it out in the mix. People like that wouldn't hear it if it bit them in the ballsack.

The fact is that it's way quieter than say the keyboards or the guitar. Bringing it up in the mix a bit would be much appreciated, just like the bass. In a band setting, the bass should be nearly as loud or as loud as the guitar. (See: Rush)

It depends on what the bass does too though. If it's doing a groove or a countermelody like what Rush often does, then yea it should be close to guitar. If it's merely doubling the guitar, which is common for DT, then it should be a bit lower, to just add texture to the mix. Otherwise it could become abrasive.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, I'm not sure Rush is the best example.

[Tomislav95]

I hear orchestra well from 2:00 to 2:40 and from 4:00 to the end. In other parts of the song guitar is too loud so I gues it's lost in mix due to it. But I believe it'll sound even better on DVD/Bluray.

[ariich]

I hear orchestra well from 2:00 to 2:40 and from 4:00 to the end. In other parts of the song guitar is too loud so I gues it's lost in mix due to it. But I believe it'll sound even better on DVD/Bluray.

4:00 onwards is much better. 2:00-2:40 I'm not really convinced by, I can hear the strings a bit but not really anything beyond Jordan is doing with his keyboard patch anyway.

Still, I'm not judging the actual thing, and agree that it might be better on disc. Just a bit concerning that the orchestra [/i]might[/i] be so underused in the mix.

[genome]

I highly doubt it will be much different on disc, YouTube's compression is rarely so severe that it will affect the balance of instruments you're hearing. It might be slightly crisper and have higher fidelity but I'd wager the mix is pretty close to what you'll get on Blu Ray, unless this is another rough mix like that first TLG video (which I doubt).

[BlobVanDam]

I highly doubt it will be much different on disc, YouTube's compression is rarely so severe that it will affect the balance of instruments you're hearing. It might be slightly crisper and have higher fidelity but I'd wager the mix is pretty close to what you'll get on Blu Ray, unless this is another rough mix like that first TLG video (which I doubt).

I think the biggest difference will be in the equipment, since a lot of people will be listening to the Youtube mix on computer speakers instead of whatever device they play their DVD/BR on. I use my computers for both with good headphones, so I don't expect the final mix to sound very different to what I'm hearing on Youtube.

This is probably the stereo mix too, so it will likely sound a bit different on the surround sound mix. But I really don't expect the stereo mix is going to sound noticeably different to the Youtube video.

[King Postwhore]

For Blu Ray's with lossless receivers it will be a huge difference.   I've seen this director's work before and he hasn't disappointed me yet.

[Grizz]

Chycki did the sound. And I don't think that a lossless lineage will be much different from 192kbps AAC.

[BlobVanDam]

For Blu Ray's with lossless receivers it will be a huge difference.   I've seen this director's work before and he hasn't disappointed me yet.

The audio mix is Chycki; the director is not involved with that as far as I know. I'm sure the video will be great though. Even from these two videos, I'm enjoying the camera work a lot more than LALP, which disappointed me a bit in that regard.

[RaiseTheKnife]

As mentioned before, there were likely issues with the isolated orchestra tracks, which may have suffered from the live guitar sound bleeding into their mics, so it may not be an issue of just adjusting the mix.  Hypothetically speaking, if Rich raises the sound of the orchestra, he may upping the guitar bounce back as well.

[Grizz]

Curse the incompetent live sound engineers!

[Vlasto]

I highly doubt it will be much different on disc, YouTube's compression is rarely so severe that it will affect the balance of instruments you're hearing. It might be slightly crisper and have higher fidelity but I'd wager the mix is pretty close to what you'll get on Blu Ray, unless this is another rough mix like that first TLG video (which I doubt).

Exactly
-------
... sure the sound will be more refined on BD, but won't considerably change perceiving of particular instruments ...

[genome]

FWIW I do kind of like the live energy of the mix going on. The only thing I'm really not a fan of is JP's tone.

[the_silent_man]

Hey guys, new to the forums, but have been hanging around for a while When I get more time I'll post a bit about myself and my rankings etc.

I was wondering if anyone knew if there will be any bonus features on this release? It has been stated in press releases that there will be, but looking at the released back cover of the DVD, it doesn't state any whatsoever (which is strange as they're usually listed if there are any).

From the clips seen, the sound & performance of the concert looks supurb to me, but it'll be disappointing if there's no extra material, as I always really enjoyed the documentaries.
I was hoping for stuff like the intro video to be available in HD as well as maybe some behind the scenes stuff etc.

Anyone have any info on this.

Many thanks, and glad to be a part of this awesome forum

[Podaar]

Many thanks, and glad to be a part of this awesome forum

Don't forget to introduce yourself here.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Hey guys, new to the forums, but have been hanging around for a while When I get more time I'll post a bit about myself and my rankings etc.

I was wondering if anyone knew if there will be any bonus features on this release? It has been stated in press releases that there will be, but looking at the released back cover of the DVD, it doesn't state any whatsoever (which is strange as they're usually listed if there are any).

From the clips seen, the sound & performance of the concert looks supurb to me, but it'll be disappointing if there's no extra material, as I always really enjoyed the documentaries.
I was hoping for stuff like the intro video to be available in HD as well as maybe some behind the scenes stuff etc.

Anyone have any info on this.

Many thanks, and glad to be a part of this awesome forum

Hopefully the intro video will be tacked on to the start of the show.....can't see why it shouldn't be. It's their music playing, so there shouldn't be any copyright issues...

[King Postwhore]

For Blu Ray's with lossless receivers it will be a huge difference.   I've seen this director's work before and he hasn't disappointed me yet.

The audio mix is Chycki; the director is not involved with that as far as I know. I'm sure the video will be great though. Even from these two videos, I'm enjoying the camera work a lot more than LALP, which disappointed me a bit in that regard.

Yes but that's the same combo as the 2 Rush Blu Ray that I love so there.  

[TAC]

OK, dumb question that I think has been covered, BUT...is the ONLY way to get the CD is to buy the BR from the Roadrunner site?? Is this right?

I seem to remember similar confusion when LALP came out, but they store near me did have a DVD/CD package.

[Madman Shepherd]

OK, dumb question that I think has been covered, BUT...is the ONLY way to get the CD is to buy the BR from the Roadrunner site?? Is this right?

I seem to remember similar confusion when LALP came out, but they store near me did have a DVD/CD package.

I'm pretty sure it is a RR exclusive.  It doesn't say so on the site but when I completed my order of it it said "Roadrunner exclusive" so I'm guessing its a RR exclusive

[TheAtliator]

The Blu-Ray is $15 on Amazon and $25 on Roadrunner.

[Mindflux]

The Blu-Ray is $15 on Amazon and $25 on Roadrunner.

I wish amazon had the BluRay+Audio version.   

[Jinx]

Strange question but...

Is there actually any bonus features for this? Looking at that back cover, theres no indication of any at all, and the running time on Amazon states 2 hrs 39 mins which sounds about right for the concert!

[hefdaddy42]

Running times never include bonus features, only the main feature.  So that has no bearing.