New Live Release: BREAKING THE FOURTH WALL discussion thread

[PixelDream]

God, the auto-tuning is so obvious in places. Lazy job on that one. Nothing against it, just make sure the audible artifacts are kept to a minimum.

[wolfking]

God, the auto-tuning is so obvious in places. Lazy job on that one. Nothing against it, just make sure the audible artifacts are kept to a minimum.

I didn't really notice any auto tuning at all on that performance.  maybe I just wasn't paying that much attention, or looking out for it.

[Kotowboy]

Yeah I didn't notice anything stick out and I was actually listening carefully.

[BlobVanDam]

I noticed it, but it wasn't excessive at all imo. There was one note I heard it snap incorrectly, but aside from that, it didn't bother me. JLB is sounding great here.

[Moor]

That JP lick just got me, unnecspected and awesome. I'm really pumped for this DVD, but I still think they are not that energetic on this tour.

Same here! In your face !

[Podaar]

Fortunately, for me, I've never been able to hear auto-tuning, unless it's at obvious Cher levels and done intentionally. In fact, couple my inability to hear it with my natural skepticism and I come away thinking that people just like to say they can hear auto-tuning to come off as experts.

I'm sure I'm wrong, of course. There are so many trained and expert level listeners on DTF.

I think the song sounds great and I'm very happy that I pre-ordered the Blu-ray!

[BlobVanDam]

Fortunately, for me, I've never been able to hear auto-tuning, unless it's at obvious Cher levels and done intentionally. In fact, couple my inability to hear it with my natural skepticism and I come away thinking that people just like to say they can hear auto-tuning to come off as experts.

I'm sure I'm wrong, of course. There are so many trained and expert level listeners on DTF.

I think the song sounds great and I'm very happy that I pre-ordered the Blu-ray!

Nah, it's definitely possible to hear it if you know what you're listening out for and have a trained ear. JLB's vocals are so good lately that it's not applied heavily, and doesn't detract in the slightest from his performance here imo.
If you want to hear obvious overdone pitch correction, check out any Toto live album/DVD from the past decade. They're painful to me.

[Tomislav95]

I don't hear auto tune ever, too. So I'm listening audience bootleg of that show now and I hear one re-recorded part where James' voice cracked. Also, people on YT wrote where they think auto tune is used but I don't hear difference. It's easier to distinguish prerecorded backup vocals on bootleg than on video and backup vocals sound auto tuned, maybe it's it.

[bosk1]

In fact, couple my inability to hear it with my natural skepticism and I come away thinking that people just like to say they can hear auto-tuning to come off as experts.

Pretty much that.  People tend to automatically play the "autotune" card whenever they hear any sort of vocal effect at all. 

[LTE3]

I didn't think Mangini could annoy me any more, but a headband? Seriously?

Yeah, I saw that too 

So tru dude, between that and Japanese hair straightening he is a goof. The man can play and seems to have substance just no style. At one point it looked like he used a hair bump but that hopefully would be too absurd. As far as the click track thing. I'm more old school and miss the Portnoy go with the feel of it all style. I always felt MP's feel style playing was in good contrast to JP's technically perfect style. Now it's just all a little too technically perfect for my tastes. Still love them but prefer the MP touch.

[BlobVanDam]

In fact, couple my inability to hear it with my natural skepticism and I come away thinking that people just like to say they can hear auto-tuning to come off as experts.

Pretty much that.  People tend to automatically play the "autotune" card whenever they hear any sort of vocal effect at all. 

And people tend to play the "people aren't really hearing it" card when they can't hear it. Even when used subtly, it can be identified by clear characteristics, but it's not a bad thing!
It's only very light here, to about the same level as on Score, which is deservedly a highly praised vocal performance, as I'm sure this will be too. It's not affecting JLB's signature vibrato, and vibrato is one of the first things affected by pitch correction. You can't apply it that lightly unless the original vocal was damn good to begin with. Pitch correction just gives it that little bit of polish to help with the fact he only had one take for a 3 hour show, which is impressive in itself.

[LTE3]

Fortunately, for me, I've never been able to hear auto-tuning, unless it's at obvious Cher levels and done intentionally. In fact, couple my inability to hear it with my natural skepticism and I come away thinking that people just like to say they can hear auto-tuning to come off as experts.

I'm sure I'm wrong, of course. There are so many trained and expert level listeners on DTF.

I think the song sounds great and I'm very happy that I pre-ordered the Blu-ray!

Nah, it's definitely possible to hear it if you know what you're listening out for and have a trained ear. JLB's vocals are so good lately that it's not applied heavily, and doesn't detract in the slightest from his performance here imo.
If you want to hear obvious overdone pitch correction, check out any Toto live album/DVD from the past decade. They're painful to me.

If it is def used why would it allow a whole song to be sung flat and out of tune. Spaced Dyed Vest he kind of butchers at a few shows I've seen on you tube or is it only used when they are making a DVD?

[emtee]

Totally impressed. Sounds bloody incredible to me.

[Lynxo]

That second clip sounds amazing. I was excited before but now I'm...double excited?

[Zydar]

I had to watch it again, I'm all smiles

[Podaar]

Fortunately, for me, I've never been able to hear auto-tuning, unless it's at obvious Cher levels and done intentionally. In fact, couple my inability to hear it with my natural skepticism and I come away thinking that people just like to say they can hear auto-tuning to come off as experts.

I'm sure I'm wrong, of course. There are so many trained and expert level listeners on DTF.

I think the song sounds great and I'm very happy that I pre-ordered the Blu-ray!

Nah, it's definitely possible to hear it if you know what you're listening out for and have a trained ear. JLB's vocals are so good lately that it's not applied heavily, and doesn't detract in the slightest from his performance here imo.
If you want to hear obvious overdone pitch correction, check out any Toto live album/DVD from the past decade. They're painful to me.

I don't doubt that at all. In this particular case, my ignorance is bliss!

[rumborak]

I didn't think it was excessive either. I mean, of course they used it, since all you need is to listen to the bootleg to hear that he was flat in a couple of spots.

[Labrie1984]

I listened to the whole bootleg at Boston and Labrie' performance was far from his best this actual tour. I like the second promotional song. I think they've re-recorded some vocal parts or used sections from other nights. I don't mind at all because I know he's been able to sing them beautifully throughout the tour. Labrie does not ceases to surprise me despite his age. What a vocalist....! Not only for his range but also for his emotional singing. Superb! Thank you DT. I still love what you do

[Anguyen92]

I can't distinguish any hints of autotune.  Which part of the video is it allegedly at?

[mikeyd23]

That... Was... Awesome!!!

I liked the vibe of that performance a lot. The band mix sounded really nice and the orchestra and choir added a nice element to fill out the sound.

And that JP improv! Freaking nasty!! Love it!

Great video, really liked some of the camera shots and the editing was good.

Overall, this video definitely got me even more pumped for this DVD!!

[fadetoblackdude7]

Seriously, the vibe and energy in that song was what I've been waiting for from a DT dvd since Score.

Combine that with the visuals, the mix and the setlist, and this one is sure to be a winner! 

[emtee]

Hearing the sonic quality of this gives me great hope that DT13 will follow suit. This is a VAST sonic improvement that actually
sounds close to perfect. If the next album has this pristine clear quality I'll be a happy dude!

[El Barto]

I get that the role of the orchestra is supposed to fill in and provide an accompaniment, but their song choices for it elude me. They pick a lot of songs where they're having to shoehorn it into various places, which is the problem almost everybody has doing these sorts of gigs. Metropolis was a fine example of that. Does Dance of Eternity really need orchestral bits? Strange Deja Vous? There were a lot of songs on that setlist where it would have worked well. I haven't heard any of it so for all I know they found a way to make it work, but based on past experience I'm definitely not holding my breath.

Also, what's with sticking them in the pit? Nobody in the audience can see them and it puts the band 20' from the audience.

[hefdaddy42]

I thought the orchestra worked incredibly well with Metropolis Pt. 1.

[Plasmastrike]

Am I the only one missing the usual JR smiles / rocking out along with JM's focused face and insane finger movement?

There was so much JP, MM, and JLB!

[nikatapi]

Am I the only one missing the usual JR smiles / rocking out along with JM's focused face and insane finger movement?

There was so much JP, MM, and JLB!

Yeah it was my only problem with the video, otherwise it's perfect, but i wanted to see more of JR, not only his fingers but his facial expressions as well.

[Plasmastrike]

Yeah, same here. I'm not trying to nitpick, I just love seein' all the guys. Other than than it's perfection

[PolarizeMe]

That performance of Strange Deja Vu was so good, I replayed it a bunch of times last night. I'm more pumped for this release!

[cramx3]

I thought the orchestra worked incredibly well with Metropolis Pt. 1.

Definitely my favorite song with the Octavarium orchestra.

Also, what's with sticking them in the pit? Nobody in the audience can see them and it puts the band 20' from the audience.

Im like half and half with this.  I think its kind of cool because its a different way of doing it.  Most bands have the orchestra behind them and I enjoy this simply because its different.  The part I dont like is the rest of the concert with all that black blank space that you can see on The Looking Glass.  SOme of the shots look like the band is playing in a dark empty room.  Ill have a better grasp on this when the DVD is released.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Also, what's with sticking them in the pit? Nobody in the audience can see them and it puts the band 20' from the audience.

Well, that's the pit for the orchestra. I guess it makes sense they are playing down there. 

Maybe the stage wasn't so big as RCMH's to fit the whole orchestra behind the band.

[rumborak]

I get that the role of the orchestra is supposed to fill in and provide an accompaniment, but their song choices for it elude me. They pick a lot of songs where they're having to shoehorn it into various places, which is the problem almost everybody has doing these sorts of gigs. Metropolis was a fine example of that. Does Dance of Eternity really need orchestral bits? Strange Deja Vous? There were a lot of songs on that setlist where it would have worked well. I haven't heard any of it so for all I know they found a way to make it work, but based on past experience I'm definitely not holding my breath.

Well, it's not as if the Boston setlist was different from the other shows. So, realistically, they wanted to have the real orchestra for IT, and then decided it would look silly if they brought in a whole orchestra for a single song.
Whether DT should have played a different setlist to work better with an orchestra is a different question, but I think these days DT has rather limited flexibility in those things.

[Mindflux]

Was there any word as to the BluRay+CD combo being limited to only the RoadRunner store?  I've been waiting for it to pop up elsewhere and it hasn't.

[Rodni Demental]

I can't distinguish any hints of autotune.  Which part of the video is it allegedly at?

The entire thing. Except it's not autotune, it's post production pitch correction. And it's very subtle and well done. I believe what people are mostly noticing and calling out on, are the parts of the chorus that have backup harmonies, considering the pre-recorded harmonies are studio samples and are already pitch corrected, they're gonna sound less 'live' than the lead vocal performance.

Fortunately, for me, I've never been able to hear auto-tuning, unless it's at obvious Cher levels and done intentionally. In fact, couple my inability to hear it with my natural skepticism and I come away thinking that people just like to say they can hear auto-tuning to come off as experts.

I'm sure I'm wrong, of course. There are so many trained and expert level listeners on DTF.

I think the song sounds great and I'm very happy that I pre-ordered the Blu-ray!

Nah, it's definitely possible to hear it if you know what you're listening out for and have a trained ear. JLB's vocals are so good lately that it's not applied heavily, and doesn't detract in the slightest from his performance here imo.
If you want to hear obvious overdone pitch correction, check out any Toto live album/DVD from the past decade. They're painful to me.

If it is def used why would it allow a whole song to be sung flat and out of tune. Spaced Dyed Vest he kind of butchers at a few shows I've seen on you tube or is it only used when they are making a DVD?

Only used when making the DVD. Live autotune can be a risky game unless the singer already has generally pretty awesome pitch control, because they have to be within a half step of the note, or their pitch is gonna get dragged to the nearest half step above or below the pitch they're going for (James wouldn't dare use it live because his vibrato style would confuse the autotuner). The irony of using live auto-tune professionally is that if you can use it effectively, then you probably don't need it. Of course you can tune it to a particular mode, like say; the scale of the key a song is in. Then you'll get tuned to the the nearest tone instead of the nearest semitone, but then you're eliminating half the notes in the octave and by this point it becomes difficult to make it sound subtle live. Not to mention if the composition develops in any of the ways that the average DT piece does, then you're gonna have to prepare to tune your key changes and it just gets way to complicated. Most, if not all artists will use subtle pitch correction in post production if releasing a live show though.

[Shadow2222]

I noticed it, but it wasn't excessive at all imo. There was one note I heard it snap incorrectly, but aside from that, it didn't bother me. JLB is sounding great here.

The first "toNIGHT I've been..." is the incorrect note, correct? I noticed that on my first listen. The "to-" and the "-night" should be different, but they are the exact same pitch.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I noticed it, but it wasn't excessive at all imo. There was one note I heard it snap incorrectly, but aside from that, it didn't bother me. JLB is sounding great here.

The first "toNIGHT I've been..." is the incorrect note, correct? I noticed that on my first listen. The "to-" and the "-night" should be different, but they are the exact same pitch.

Dream Theater fans.

Breaking mistakes one syllable at a time since 1989.