The Enemy Inside Discussion Thread

[The Letter M]

I cannot recall if this has been discussed, but has anyone been able to figure out which Working Title was used for the song that eventually became "The Enemy Inside"?

Obviously it's not "YARGGG" or "The Clover", and I don't remember any clean guitars, so this rules out "Bad Larry" and "Smoothen" (at lest I'm pretty sure there aren't any clean guitars...someone else might hear them but I don't think there are...). "Epic" is surely what became "Illumination Theory" and "Along For The Ride" stayed the same.

This leaves "Reap The Harvest", the first song they wrote, then "Vinegar Seed" and "Dolphin Safe". Any bets?

-Marc.

[LCArenas]

I'm gonna go with Vinegar Seed just because.

[Scotto123]

Great single from DT. Mangini is great on this track and compliments the song perfectly. I can understand some mixed reactions about the song, but the thing is: it's a good song.

All singles are supposed to have a hook and a more straightforward approach. You really can't please everyone. If they were too technical, people would be saying "this is their single? It's way too busy!". I have high hopes for this album, and I'm absolutely loving the song. I've played it almost two dozen times already.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Just bought the single on Itunes..... this song is the 

[reneranucci]

I agree with people saying the song is unmemorable. Everything on it is bland except for the drumming, even the riffs and solo parts are mediocre. And the melodies are so lame.

DT's melodies used to be so good, and now they are so boring and stale. It started with On the Back of Angels and continues with this single. Who is in charge of making them? Can't they create better ones? I'm not saying they were always brilliant and original like Amorphis, but they were catchy and had some depth like Transatlantic or old prog rock. Melodies are the main thing I pay attention to when I listen to music, and that's why I don't see myself listening much to new DT.

But the drumming is good. By the way, how many times have they done that chugga-chugga in the background/high bass note/cymbal hit that they do in the intro? That part sounds incredible formulaic, it´s strange they couldn't come up with something more original because they usually start their songs really well.

[wolven74]

Obviously it's not "YARGGG" or "The Clover", and I don't remember any clean guitars, so this rules out "Bad Larry" and "Smoothen" (at lest I'm pretty sure there aren't any clean guitars...someone else might hear them but I don't think there are...).

I think Smoothen became The Looking Glass. I'll guess TEI's working title was Vinegar Seed. Though it's hard to know since the way they number the working titles is based on when they were written, not the order on the album.

That's my best guess.

[userx]

I agree with people saying the song is unmemorable. Everything on it is bland except for the drumming, even the riffs and solo parts are mediocre. And the melodies are so lame.

DT's melodies used to be so good, and now they are so boring and stale. It started with On the Back of Angels and continues with this single. Who is in charge of making them? Can't they create better ones? I'm not saying they were always brilliant and original like Amorphis, but they were catchy and had some depth like Transatlantic or old prog rock. Melodies are the main thing I pay attention to when I listen to music, and that's why I don't see myself listening much to new DT.

But the drumming is good. By the way, how many times have they done that chugga-chugga in the background/high bass note/cymbal hit that they do in the intro? That part sounds incredible formulaic, it´s strange they couldn't come up with something more original because they usually start their songs really well.

My thoughts exactly

[dongringo]

I completely agree with coverkillernation. It's nice to see that someone else loves this song as much as I do. I guess a couple others here love it too, but man there certainly has been a tremendous amount of nitpicking. Anyway, excellent take on it (imo):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCjnB7yX9kk

[Jaffa]

I guess a couple others here love it too, but man there certainly has been a tremendous amount of nitpicking.

Just because people don't think the song is perfect doesn't mean they don't like it, or even love it.

Just wanted to put that out there. 

[dongringo]

I guess a couple others here love it too, but man there certainly has been a tremendous amount of nitpicking.

Just because people don't think the song is perfect doesn't mean they don't like it, or even love it.

Just wanted to put that out there.

Just in the last few posts are words such as boring, stale, unmemorable, formulaic, bland, mediocre, lame, etc. Just putting that out there.  Anyway, to each their own. I'm just glad I like it because that's really all that matters while I'm listening to it. 

[wolven74]

I completely agree with coverkillernation. It's nice to see that someone else loves this song as much as I do. I guess a couple others here love it too, but man there certainly has been a tremendous amount of nitpicking. Anyway, excellent take on it (imo):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCjnB7yX9kk

This guy.... I love his reviews, but sometimes his level is just

[dongringo]

I completely agree with coverkillernation. It's nice to see that someone else loves this song as much as I do. I guess a couple others here love it too, but man there certainly has been a tremendous amount of nitpicking. Anyway, excellent take on it (imo):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCjnB7yX9kk

This guy.... I love his reviews, but sometimes his level is just

Did you see his review of Geoff Tate's "Queensryche"? That was a good one. 

[Jaffa]

I guess a couple others here love it too, but man there certainly has been a tremendous amount of nitpicking.

Just because people don't think the song is perfect doesn't mean they don't like it, or even love it.

Just wanted to put that out there.

Just in the last few posts are words such as boring, stale, unmemorable, formulaic, bland, mediocre, lame, etc. Just putting that out there.  Anyway, to each their own. I'm just glad I like it because that's really all that matters while I'm listening to it. 

Ah, fair enough.  My mistake.  I thought you were referring more to people pointing out little flaws in the mixing and stuff.  To me, calling the song stale or mediocre isn't exactly 'nitpicking', so when you said nitpicking, I just misunderstood what you meant.  Sorry. 

[convrge]

Could all of this be a fault of digital recording (Protools etc)?  I never heard of loudness wars back when tape was the norm.

It is 100% possible to make recordings digitally that are not overly compressed. The recording process does not compress at all. It's not until someone decides to compress the audio too much that we get the loudness war result. That usually happens at mastering but sometimes a mixing engineer can also compress things too much.

If anything, higher dynamic range is easier with digital recording, because the noise floor is much lower compared to tape recording.

Honestly, I cannot believe it's 2013 and we are still dealing with the loudness war. How do these "engineers" sleep at night, knowing(?) that they are ruining modern recordings by brick-walling them to death? It's such a shame. Like someone else said, the only prog recordings you can trust these days must have Steven Wilson's name on it.

On the upside, there is a chance that the HD Tracks version will not be brick-walled. That is actually the case for the HD Tracks version of ADTOE. The HD Tracks version of ADTOE has more breathing room and has been speculated to be taken from a different master. Probably the same master that was used for the vinyl version. While I hope Dream Theater releases a better master for HD Tracks, it probably won't happen right away.

[KevShmev]

Honestly, I cannot believe it's 2013 and we are still dealing with the loudness war. How do these "engineers" sleep at night, knowing(?) that they are ruining modern recordings by brick-walling them to death? It's such a shame. Like someone else said, the only prog recordings you can trust these days must have Steven Wilson's name on it.

It is sad, I agree, and while I agree that just about anything with Steven Wilson's name on it almost always sounds magnificent from a sonic and production standpoint, most of Neal Morse's and Roine Stolt's stuff usually sounds pretty damn good as well. 

[mabowe]

After a dozen listens, the muddyness is really starting to bother me, dont get me wrong I love the song but it s almost like everything we are supposed to hear is backwards.  When i want to hear the vocals I really dont, when i want to hear the keys, I really dont, when i want to hear the snare I really dont, all I hear is GUITAR!!!!!!

[dongringo]

I guess a couple others here love it too, but man there certainly has been a tremendous amount of nitpicking.

Just because people don't think the song is perfect doesn't mean they don't like it, or even love it.

Just wanted to put that out there.

Just in the last few posts are words such as boring, stale, unmemorable, formulaic, bland, mediocre, lame, etc. Just putting that out there.  Anyway, to each their own. I'm just glad I like it because that's really all that matters while I'm listening to it. 

Ah, fair enough.  My mistake.  I thought you were referring more to people pointing out little flaws in the mixing and stuff.  To me, calling the song stale or mediocre isn't exactly 'nitpicking', so when you said nitpicking, I just misunderstood what you meant.  Sorry. 

No prob man. I was going to use the word negativity instead of nitpicking, but went with the lesser of the two because I thought I'd get slammed.  All good. 

[gmillerdrake]

Honestly, I cannot believe it's 2013 and we are still dealing with the loudness war. How do these "engineers" sleep at night, knowing(?) that they are ruining modern recordings by brick-walling them to death? It's such a shame. Like someone else said, the only prog recordings you can trust these days must have Steven Wilson's name on it.

It is sad, I agree, and while I agree that just about anything with Steven Wilson's name on it almost always sounds magnificent from a sonic and production standpoint, most of Neal Morse's and Roine Stolt's stuff usually sounds pretty damn good as well.

You'd think with how 'buddy buddy' JR and Steven Wilson are that he'd engineer or mix or whatever it's called a DT album. But, am I correct when I think I remember reading that Stephen Wilson isn't a fan of DT music?

[KevShmev]

I think you are correct, Gary.  I think, generally speaking, Wilson is a not a big fan of music that is as busy as Dream Theater's is.  Heck, even as "busy" as some might say his latest solo album is, it is still busy in a fusion kind of way, not in a prog "wanky" kind of way.  And really only in a few spots (parts of Luminol and the beginning of The Holy Drinker).

[mabowe]

i mean, how could james' album sound sooo much better than this single with an obviously less budget?

[KevShmev]

I blame Roadrunner.  Roadrunner is big enough, and so is DT, to where a release like this will garner some mainstream attention, and they want it to sound "modern," so they modern up the sound to some degree, and I would guess that a lot of that is somewhat out of the band's control.  Same thing with Rush and Clockwork Angels.

[Bolsters]

I blame Roadrunner.  Roadrunner is big enough, and so is DT, to where a release like this will garner some mainstream attention, and they want it to sound "modern," so they modern up the sound to some degree, and I would guess that a lot of that is somewhat out of the band's control.  Same thing with Rush and Clockwork Angels.

That's my thinking too. The band self-producing would have a lot of say in things like recording and mixing engineers, probably all the say actually, but mastering is more a part of the manufacturing process than it is the creative process (or at least, it's moving closer to that these days with mastering engineers relying on "set and forget" and not doing much of anything creatively), and that's the label's area.

Also, I'm not sure contractually the band would have any say after the albums is mastered. If they were to hear the master and didn't like it, I can't see RR forking out the time or money, or push back their schedule, to give the mastering engineer a second shot, or to dump that master and find someone else. Once it's done it's done, it's out of the band's hands once they hand the mixes over.

[mabowe]

I blame Roadrunner.  Roadrunner is big enough, and so is DT, to where a release like this will garner some mainstream attention, and they want it to sound "modern," so they modern up the sound to some degree, and I would guess that a lot of that is somewhat out of the band's control.  Same thing with Rush and Clockwork Angels.

well i just dont get it, they(RR) should be ashamed of themselves, the difference is completely bipolar production wise, my expectations made this single sound so good when it came out but the fact that other music came out that day and made the single pale in comparison.

[BlobVanDam]

i mean, how could james' album sound sooo much better than this single with an obviously less budget?

It doesn't sound that much better. The mix is a bit more balanced, but both are equally overcompressed.

[mabowe]

i mean, how could james' album sound sooo much better than this single with an obviously less budget?

It doesn't sound that much better. The mix is a bit more balanced, but both are equally overcompressed.

i respectfully disagree, at least i heara complete uniform song that have instrument separation and clear dynamics

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, I have to say, I'm sparsing out my listenings of this song a bit, but the more I listen to it, the more I enjoy it. Hearing the intro is enough to get me excited. So it's definitely growing on me.

[BlobVanDam]

i mean, how could james' album sound sooo much better than this single with an obviously less budget?

It doesn't sound that much better. The mix is a bit more balanced, but both are equally overcompressed.

i respectfully disagree, at least i heara complete uniform song that have instrument separation and clear dynamics

At the very least, I do agree it sounds better, I just don't agree on how much better! For me, the compression on both cancels out much of the difference.

[aprilethereal]

I completely agree with coverkillernation. It's nice to see that someone else loves this song as much as I do. I guess a couple others here love it too, but man there certainly has been a tremendous amount of nitpicking. Anyway, excellent take on it (imo):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCjnB7yX9kk

I didn't watch many of his videos within the last weeks, but this one was great

I'm listening to Score now, and I can hear JM loud and clear. Another Won and Afterlife give me goosebumps!

JMX is absolutely awesome on the Score version of Afterlife

[Dellers]

i mean, how could james' album sound sooo much better than this single with an obviously less budget?

Jens Bogren mixed it. That's your answer. Fair enough, that record is pretty compressed as well, but the actual mix is good.

[PixelDream]

There are certain records that are mastered hot, while still sounding pretty good nonetheless. Look at Tool's 10,000 Days. That one was loud as hell, but the sounds and the mix were amazing.

Damn DT, first you get ADTOE's flat, mid-rangy weak mix, and now the new record is gonna sound muddy and overcompressed?

[Red_Queen]

I completely agree with coverkillernation. It's nice to see that someone else loves this song as much as I do. I guess a couple others here love it too, but man there certainly has been a tremendous amount of nitpicking. Anyway, excellent take on it (imo):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCjnB7yX9kk

I didn't watch many of his videos within the last weeks, but this one was great

I'm listening to Score now, and I can hear JM loud and clear. Another Won and Afterlife give me goosebumps!

JMX is absolutely awesome on the Score version of Afterlife

Listen Score now and Myung is awesome absolutely everywhere !!! What a bass player !

[puppyonacid]

I was watching score a couple of weeks ago and that's one thing that stood out.

JMX is clear and what an amazing bass player he truly is. That get's so easily overlooked when he gets buried in a mix.

Not only is Afterlife worth a listen but Innocence Faded stands out too.

[Nefarius]

I'm happily unaware of such things.

That's the thing... you don't need to know all that audio engineering stuff. You can feel it. [...]

Can I quote this paragraph on my facebook?

Sure, whatever helps making people aware of the problem.

I blame Roadrunner.

DT stated they're so happy with Roadrunner because they allow them to do pretty much whatever they wanted to do. I'm usually happy to blame studios and their low-quality-MP3-player-or-phone-with-lousy-headphones target group for the loudness war and absolutely expect them to nudge and push and even force their artists towards hotter mixes. But I also think DT (unlike many artists) are in a comfortable position which should allow them to voice their concerns and at least set limits to the brickwalling (limits for the limiter, funny). Listening to TEI I don't think DT seem to really care much about the issue or we would have a more dynamic master.

Score

Score is a paragon of live sound and I've been to a few DT gigs that were indeed very close to that sound. I guess that's why I tend to listen to live releases more than studio releases. Looking forward to LALP and of course expecting great stuff along for the ride in January.

Greetings...
Nef

[EstyMaJ]

Someone sign this guy!  but seriously this makes me want to see DT play this song even more !! Can't wait to see them playing this live .
great EARLY cover  !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvRVmZbQQJI

[aprilethereal]