The Enemy Inside Discussion Thread

[dparrott]

Could all of this be a fault of digital recording (Protools etc)?  I never heard of loudness wars back when tape was the norm. 

[BlobVanDam]

Could all of this be a fault of digital recording (Protools etc)?  I never heard of loudness wars back when tape was the norm. 

It has to do with the mastering, not with how it's recorded or mixed. It just became the trend around the same time. Digitally recorded albums can sound equally good as tape if done right.

[Bolsters]

Could all of this be a fault of digital recording (Protools etc)?  I never heard of loudness wars back when tape was the norm.

It is 100% possible to make recordings digitally that are not overly compressed. The recording process does not compress at all. It's not until someone decides to compress the audio too much that we get the loudness war result. That usually happens at mastering but sometimes a mixing engineer can also compress things too much.

If anything, higher dynamic range is easier with digital recording, because the noise floor is much lower compared to tape recording.

[weezul]

well i can tell you the mix is making it really hard to transcribe the bass part!! It's not even there, even in cans it's just toilet.

[Joshin U]

even in cans it's just toilet.

All this technical jargon is leaving me quite confused.

[dparrott]

"technical jargon" 

In regular English: Even in headphones, it sounds like sh**!   

[puppyonacid]

well i can tell you the mix is making it really hard to transcribe the bass part!! It's not even there, even in cans it's just toilet.

I can hear the bass ok when played through my iPhone speaker. Try pitching it up an octave and bring down the low end. You should be able to pick it out then.

[Nefarius]

I'm happily unaware of such things.

That's the thing... you don't need to know all that audio engineering stuff. You can feel it.

When your ears experience excessive loudness they will automatically reduce their sensitivity. Bad mastering may sound louder but you'll lose more and more details and dynamics the louder it gets. Your ears will become uncomfortably numb trying to avoid a barrage of noise and thus drown out the details and intricacies. Listening to that kind of material will tire your ears much faster too, you may have experienced a case where you wanted to play an album or a track again but you simply felt exhausted and didn't.

Greetings...
Nef

[The Stray Seed]

I'm happily unaware of such things.

That's the thing... you don't need to know all that audio engineering stuff. You can feel it.

When your ears experience excessive loudness they will automatically reduce their sensitivity. Bad mastering may sound louder but you'll lose more and more details and dynamics the louder it gets. Your ears will become uncomfortably numb trying to avoid a barrage of noise and thus drown out the details and intricacies. Listening to that kind of material will tire your ears much faster too, you may have experienced a case where you wanted to play an album or a track again but you simply felt exhausted and didn't.

Greetings...
Nef

Whe I was a child I caught a fleeting sound. Out of the corner of my ear. I turned to hear but it was gone.

[The Boomr]

I'm happily unaware of such things.

That's the thing... you don't need to know all that audio engineering stuff. You can feel it.

When your ears experience excessive loudness they will automatically reduce their sensitivity. Bad mastering may sound louder but you'll lose more and more details and dynamics the louder it gets. Your ears will become uncomfortably numb trying to avoid a barrage of noise and thus drown out the details and intricacies. Listening to that kind of material will tire your ears much faster too, you may have experienced a case where you wanted to play an album or a track again but you simply felt exhausted and didn't.

Greetings...
Nef

Whe I was a child I caught a fleeting sound. Out of the corner of my ear. I turned to hear but it was gone.

[sylvinception]

Hey everyone, how are you ??

I just listen to the song for the very fist times, and I have to say this is not the worst DT first single for an album, not the best either...
So much better than "Constant motion", "A rite of passage" or "OTBOA", but was it really difficult ??

Got the feeling that (someone already said that in this topic) they certainly want to make the most accessible album in their style.

Good chorus, guitars, keyboards, bass and drums parts are all awesome, but LaBrie's voice is not as powerful as usual, maybe because of the style of the song, which sounds a little too much "FM" (commercial ?) sometimes, but it's a pleasant reminder of "Images and words" I think!!
And again, no "revolution" of their style, but I think that they continue to get back to their roots, and keeping a very actual sound.

"The enemy inside" is far from being a masterpiece, but it's a pretty good song which promise us, I'm sure, a very strong and excellent album.

Oh I forgot: this is the reaction of Mike Portnoy when he discovered the song:

"OMG, DT is dead...
well, long live Megadeth!!"

[commanderbob]

I'm happily unaware of such things.

That's the thing... you don't need to know all that audio engineering stuff. You can feel it.

When your ears experience excessive loudness they will automatically reduce their sensitivity. Bad mastering may sound louder but you'll lose more and more details and dynamics the louder it gets. Your ears will become uncomfortably numb trying to avoid a barrage of noise and thus drown out the details and intricacies. Listening to that kind of material will tire your ears much faster too, you may have experienced a case where you wanted to play an album or a track again but you simply felt exhausted and didn't.

Greetings...
Nef

Hmm, good points.  I like it or don't like it,  I like or don't like the levels of different instruments.  That's about as deep as I want to get.  Any more and I have to start buying expensive equipment, get a weekend home "out of the city," eat salads, drink wine and start wearing mock turtle necks, right? 

[The Boomr]

I'm happily unaware of such things.

That's the thing... you don't need to know all that audio engineering stuff. You can feel it.

When your ears experience excessive loudness they will automatically reduce their sensitivity. Bad mastering may sound louder but you'll lose more and more details and dynamics the louder it gets. Your ears will become uncomfortably numb trying to avoid a barrage of noise and thus drown out the details and intricacies. Listening to that kind of material will tire your ears much faster too, you may have experienced a case where you wanted to play an album or a track again but you simply felt exhausted and didn't.

Greetings...
Nef

Hmm, good points.  I like it or don't like it,  I like or don't like the levels of different instruments.  That's about as deep as I want to get.  Any more and I have to start buying expensive equipment, get a weekend home "out of the city," eat salads, drink wine and start wearing mock turtle necks, right? 

And then your life will become so much more.

[LTE3]

Still trying to like it, and for the fun of it I paused it in the middle and went back to catalog and played a few song snippets just to see what really is bothering me about the song and it basically it is just a song with no feeling, and it's dull, with way dropped down tuning that is has no soul. I hate that I don't like it. I used to not like AS I AM but that song is much better than this one IMO. Im sure the rest of it will revive my hope for the future of the band for me.

[The Boomr]

Still trying to like it, and for the fun of it I paused it in the middle and went back to catalog and played a few song snippets just to see what really is bothering me about the song and it basically it is just a song with no feeling, and it's dull, with way dropped down tuning that is has no soul. I hate that I don't like it. I used to not like AS I AM but that song is much better than this one IMO. Im sure the rest of it will revive my hope for the future of the band for me.

Those are gloomy feelings about it indeed. I don't dislike it quite that much. In fact I can't really say yet whether I truly dislike it or not, or it's just not a super great track but I still like it. I am still fairly confident that the rest of the album will be much better, though. Just a hunch.

[The Stray Seed]

I like it a lot!!! And can't wait for the rest of the album, which, as some of you already said, I expect to be much better than the single! It's gonna be amazing!

[RoDT]

So I let the song soak for a couple of days before talking about it.

What can I say? It's awesome!

I really like the energy in this song. Makes the band sound rejuvenated overall. Fresh metal (in DT terms) but also bringing back all those elements that make a typical (but awesome) DT song. It was very nice to hear that deep wah sound from JP again, reminding me of moments like TGP and some other DT classics. Made me a bit nostalgic, and also wondered if we could hear some of that small experimentation phase JP had during SDOIT (songs like Blind faith and Disappear)

Some people mentioned not being able to hear JMX, I don't know about you guys, but I hear him alright. And he sounds good! Can't wait for that bass solo!

Mangini is doing a great job, always precise, injecting a good chunk of that energy I was talking about before. It's very nice to be able to hear the bass drum with such clarity this time haha. I don't dislike the lower snare drum sound on this one, I think it fits what they were aiming for. I can totally see the Genie talking about how the snare frequency had to be lower to match JP's 7 layered chocolate cake guitar. It's just deep, and doesn't contrast too much, leaving some room for the keys and vocals to fit. The genie proves himself once more.

Rudess, I thought he was a bit lower in the mix this time around, which doesn't mean it's wrong. I really liked how right before the first strings section you can hear in the distance a JR doing some fast noodling, like being anxious to show his presence, it's a very nice build up, specially for those who like listening to every single detail. I liked the breakdown of course, that's JR signature right there, and a reminder why he joined DT to begin with.

Finally, JLB did his job right. Also a bit lower on the mix, and a bit more controlled in terms of range. Of course, in his last phrasing he goes higher just to remind us of what he can do. I think this restrained approach fits the song. Excited to hear how different he sings on the other songs!

Overall, a solid, ballsy single, the best of the Roadrunner era IMO.

Sept 24th can't come fast enough!

[lonestar]

Anyone else think this will be the next tour's opener?

I say they open with the entire album, beginning to end.

[Groundhog]

I wanted take time, listen to the song a couple of times and let the song sink in before I posted my feelings. First impression was like wow! This song is great, but it wore down after a couple of listens. It's still not a bad song. Pretty good metal song if not a bit dull but I like the frantic energy.

The good:
Killer intro, awesome riffage and drumming
James sounds good, chorus is really cool and catchy. JLB's last note is really great. Just what I've been expecting from him. Hopefully there's more like that on the album.
Mangini is a beast
Good instrumental section and a decent guitar solo

The bad:
Well based on the previous albums (SC, BC&SL, ADTOE) I wasn't expecting much from the audio production.
Sadly at least for this song this is typical over compressed loudness war sound all over again. Not my kind of a thing at all.
I don't mind the snare I think that in itself it sounds ok, but there's no room for it to breath or to have any punch. Everything sounds suffocated on this. Hopefully this will be the heaviest track and as such the most compressed track of the album. They will not have a good sounding album with cohesive mix where all the instruments have their own place until they stop condoning to the loudness war IMO.

I will be waiting for the different releases to come out and see if one of them will have a better mastering before I dish out my cash whether it'll be vinyl, flac, 5.1 mix or HDtracks version.

[The Letter M]

Anyone else think this will be the next tour's opener?

I say they open with the entire album, beginning to end.

That would be awesome, and a strong testament to their faith in the album and it's material, especially considering it is a self-titled album.

"An Evening With Dream Theater, opening with Dream Theater's latest Dream Theater album, titled Dream Theater"

It would be a Dream...

...Theater.

-Marc.

[Dark Castle]

I definitely think this along with False Awakening Suite will be the tour opener, a short intro going into the firebomb of a song is sure to be monstrous live.

[The Boomr]

I think literally no one has mentioned this yet. I agree that JP's wah guitar under JR's lead is really cool...but does anyone else feel like JR is WAY too low in the mix during that section? I mean, he is the solo voice. His 16th and 32nd note runs shouldn't be getting buried by the guitar wah-ing on a few chords.

[Kotowboy]

Anyone else think this will be the next tour's opener?

I say they open with the entire album, beginning to end.

That would be awesome, and a strong testament to their faith in the album and it's material, especially considering it is a self-titled album.

"An Evening With Dream Theater, opening with Dream Theater's latest Dream Theater album, titled Dream Theater"

It would be a Dream...

... in a...

...Theater.

-Marc.

Fixxxed

[Zydar]

You know what, guys?

I can't escape from the enemy inside.

[The Stray Seed]

You know what, guys?

I can't escape from the enemy inside.

[growthmusic57]

They will not have a good sounding album with cohesive mix where all the instruments have their own place until they stop condoning to the loudness war IMO.

Myung has never really done too well in this war... 

[The Stray Seed]

I'm listening to Score now, and I can hear JM loud and clear. Another Won and Afterlife give me goosebumps!

[Red_Queen]

You know what, guys?

I can't escape from the enemy inside.

Me too ! After 3 days maraton of this song I can say the melody line of JLB is perfect !

[Groundhog]

They will not have a good sounding album with cohesive mix where all the instruments have their own place until they stop condoning to the loudness war IMO.

Myung has never really done too well in this war... 

No he's not. Well if you take it into consideration that in order to make a song loud you have to cut off bass frequencies...

[userx]

I'm happily unaware of such things.

That's the thing... you don't need to know all that audio engineering stuff. You can feel it.

When your ears experience excessive loudness they will automatically reduce their sensitivity. Bad mastering may sound louder but you'll lose more and more details and dynamics the louder it gets. Your ears will become uncomfortably numb trying to avoid a barrage of noise and thus drown out the details and intricacies. Listening to that kind of material will tire your ears much faster too, you may have experienced a case where you wanted to play an album or a track again but you simply felt exhausted and didn't.

Greetings...
Nef

Can I quote this paragraph on my facebook?

[dream416]

Didn't like it all that much when i first listened to the track.
But I'm loving it now. Nice kick ass song. Sept.24 can't get here soon enough for me.   

[theseoafs]

Anyone else think this will be the next tour's opener?

I say they open with the entire album, beginning to end.

My prediction:  the setlist contains the whole album, but spread out over the setlist so they can close the 2nd set with Illumination Theory.

[dparrott]

They will not have a good sounding album with cohesive mix where all the instruments have their own place until they stop condoning to the loudness war IMO.

Myung has never really done too well in this war... 

No he's not. Well if you take it into consideration that in order to make a song loud you have to cut off bass frequencies...

He's the victim!  Strange how the bass guitar is cut but the bass DRUM is thunderous.  Doesn't sound like a lack of bass frequencies this time around.

[Dark Castle]

I can hear Myung just fine, like Blob said, he's doubling the guitar most of the time.

[ariich]

I can hear Myung just fine, like Blob said, he's doubling the guitar most of the time.

Same, but when he's not doubling, I can hear him quite clearly.