Avatar

[bosk1]

 

So...are you going to move there and join?

[Sigz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk2vR8w2sjc&feature=player_embedded#

Oh dear god.

[RandalGraves]

That was hilarious.  I know there's probably people out there who are really doing that though . . . and that scares me a little.

I'm curious to see if that prequel novel of Avatar comes to fruition.  I know most people would argue that Avatar is more about the visuals than a story, thereby making a novel kind of moot.

[Bombardana]

I'm curious to see if that prequel novel of Avatar comes to fruition.  I know most people would argue that Avatar is more about the visuals than a story, thereby making a novel kind of moot.

I don't get this personally. Just because this film put a greater emphasis on visuals than any other film to date, does not mean that it is simply a showboat for technology. This was, to me, one of the best cinema experiences ever, and the visuals enhanced the film by totally immersing me in it's fictional world, story and characters. The visuals create the immersion, the immersion draws you into the world, and the story becomes real. That is what makes this film an amazing experience.

[Adami]

I think he means that without visuals, the story of avatar might not have caught anyones attention.

[bosk1]

I'm curious to see if that prequel novel of Avatar comes to fruition.  I know most people would argue that Avatar is more about the visuals than a story, thereby making a novel kind of moot.

I don't get this personally. Just because this film put a greater emphasis on visuals than any other film to date, does not mean that it is simply a showboat for technology. This was, to me, one of the best cinema experiences ever, and the visuals enhanced the film by totally immersing me in it's fictional world, story and characters. The visuals create the immersion, the immersion draws you into the world, and the story becomes real. That is what makes this film an amazing experience.

Perhaps.  But I think the point being made is that it just isn't that compelling a plot.  It is an interesting world that is fun to be immersed in, and hte technology enables that.  But the story in and of itself is nothing special, so without the experience of being drawn into this neat world, it wouldn't have garnered the attention it has.

[Bombardana]

I'm curious to see if that prequel novel of Avatar comes to fruition.  I know most people would argue that Avatar is more about the visuals than a story, thereby making a novel kind of moot.

I don't get this personally. Just because this film put a greater emphasis on visuals than any other film to date, does not mean that it is simply a showboat for technology. This was, to me, one of the best cinema experiences ever, and the visuals enhanced the film by totally immersing me in it's fictional world, story and characters. The visuals create the immersion, the immersion draws you into the world, and the story becomes real. That is what makes this film an amazing experience.

Perhaps.  But I think the point being made is that it just isn't that compelling a plot.  It is an interesting world that is fun to be immersed in, and hte technology enables that.  But the story in and of itself is nothing special, so without the experience of being drawn into this neat world, it wouldn't have garnered the attention it has.

I definitely see your point, but I think such criticisms are ultimately pointless because Avatar does exist with those visuals. One might apply the same logic to any number of things e.g. "I don't think Dream Theater would be as good without John Petrucci." Well so what? He is their guitarist and that is part of the reason people like the band.
In my personal opinion, I do not find fault with the story.

[Adami]

Yes, but no one is saying "I think DT would work without JP".

You're saying that a novel of avatar would work. A novel removes the visuals, and without the visuals, avatar just isn't very interesting (from what I gather).

[Bombardana]

Yes, but no one is saying "I think DT would work without JP".

You're saying that a novel of avatar would work. A novel removes the visuals, and without the visuals, avatar just isn't very interesting (from what I gather).

Actually I was not addressing the novel, only those criticisms about the film. I bolded the bit in his post I was refering to, sorry if I didn't make it clear enough. For all I know the novel could be shit.

[Adami]

Well, do you think if avatar was just a plainly drawn cartoon it would gather the cult it has?

If not, then it is quite dependent on the visuals.

[Bombardana]

Well, do you think if avatar was just a plainly drawn cartoon it would gather the cult it has?

If not, then it is quite dependent on the visuals.

When did I say Avatar was not dependent on the visuals? I only argued that I disagree that it is "more about the visuals than a story".

[Adami]

Well, do you think if avatar was just a plainly drawn cartoon it would gather the cult it has?

If not, then it is quite dependent on the visuals.

When did I say Avatar was not dependent on the visuals? I only argued that I disagree that it is "more about the visuals than a story".

Well, had the story been anything with the same level of visuals, would it have succeeded?
Had the story remained the same without the visuals, would it have succeeded?

I think you'll find that without the visuals, the story would have gone largely ignored, meanwhile the story could have been anything and would have gotten attention based on the visuals alone.

[bosk1]

Adami, seriously, we get it.  You repeating the same position over and over doesn't make it any more right. 

[Adami]

Adami, seriously, we get it.  You repeating the same position over and over doesn't make it any more right. 

Fine, I'll leave that to you.

[Bombardana]

Well, do you think if avatar was just a plainly drawn cartoon it would gather the cult it has?

If not, then it is quite dependent on the visuals.

When did I say Avatar was not dependent on the visuals? I only argued that I disagree that it is "more about the visuals than a story".

Well, had the story been anything with the same level of visuals, would it have succeeded?
Had the story remained the same without the visuals, would it have succeeded?

I think you'll find that without the visuals, the story would have gone largely ignored, meanwhile the story could have been anything and would have gotten attention based on the visuals alone.

Well if I may, I will refer to my previous John Petrucci analogy.
Would another band with JP as guitarist have succeeded?
Had Dream Theater have never featured JP, would it have succeeded?
The only truthful answer I can give to those questions is I simply don't know.
In reference to the last sentence of your post, how would I go about finding that? That view is completely subjective.
You could just as easily argue that James Camerons involvement is the reason for its success.

[Adami]

Forget it, appearently I'm not allowed to argue something. You win I guess.

[MetalManiac666]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk2vR8w2sjc&feature=player_embedded#

[Chino]

Well, do you think if avatar was just a plainly drawn cartoon it would gather the cult it has?

If not, then it is quite dependent on the visuals.

Would Jurassic Park been as good as it was without the visuals? How about Independence Day, or Band of Brothers? Just because amazing visuals assist in making a movie better, doesn't mean it is the only reason people like the movie.

[Bombardana]

Well, do you think if avatar was just a plainly drawn cartoon it would gather the cult it has?

If not, then it is quite dependent on the visuals.

Would Jurassic Park been as good as it was without the visuals? How about Independence Day, or Band of Brothers? Just because amazing visuals assist in making a movie better, doesn't mean it is the only reason people like the movie.

Damnit Chino I spent like half an hour trying to express that and you went and did it in a couple of sentences. 

[bosk1]

Would Jurassic Park been as good as it was without the visuals? How about Independence Day, or Band of Brothers? Just because amazing visuals assist in making a movie better, doesn't mean it is the only reason people like the movie.

Pretty much, yeah.  They both had pretty good stories that didn't need spectacular visuals.  Yeah, the visuals made them more popular and enhanced the experience.  But, unlike Avatar, they had good stories on their own.

[Chino]

Would Jurassic Park been as good as it was without the visuals? How about Independence Day, or Band of Brothers? Just because amazing visuals assist in making a movie better, doesn't mean it is the only reason people like the movie.

Pretty much, yeah.  They both had pretty good stories that didn't need spectacular visuals.  Yeah, the visuals made them more popular and enhanced the experience.  But, unlike Avatar, they had good stories on their own.

I agreed with you up until that...

[ReaPsTA]

Would Jurassic Park been as good as it was without the visuals? How about Independence Day, or Band of Brothers? Just because amazing visuals assist in making a movie better, doesn't mean it is the only reason people like the movie.

Pretty much, yeah.  They both had pretty good stories that didn't need spectacular visuals.  Yeah, the visuals made them more popular and enhanced the experience.  But, unlike Avatar, they had good stories on their own.

I disagree with both of you. This proves my mental independence and sex appeal with women.

None of those movies would have been as good without the visuals.  In the case of Independence Day, the story isn't that good and really only serves as a launching point for the eye-candy.

In the case of Jurassic Park and Band of Brothers, the visuals directly serve the story. They could still be okay movies without the visuals because they have good stories, but the stories rely on the visuals to make them work.

In the case of Avatar, the Cameron's credit, he didn't go off the deep end like Lucas and develop scripts with non-existent stories that serve only as platforms for the visuals. The visuals in Avatar are part of the story. But let's say the visuals in Avatar are good, but not as immersive as they currently are. Without the visual world to be immersed in, does the story still connect with people on its own merits? I somehow doubt it. And I say this as someone who thinks the story for Avatar isn't bad in spite of its flaws.

[Adami]

According to 4 oscar voters, Avatar will win best picture.

Seriously? God damn.

[ReaPsTA]

According to 4 oscar voters, Avatar will win best picture.

Seriously? God damn.

When in doubt, follow the money.

[Chino]

Would Jurassic Park been as good as it was without the visuals? How about Independence Day, or Band of Brothers? Just because amazing visuals assist in making a movie better, doesn't mean it is the only reason people like the movie.

Pretty much, yeah.  They both had pretty good stories that didn't need spectacular visuals.  Yeah, the visuals made them more popular and enhanced the experience.  But, unlike Avatar, they had good stories on their own.

I disagree with both of you. This proves my mental independence and sex appeal with women.

None of those movies would have been as good without the visuals.  In the case of Independence Day, the story isn't that good and really only serves as a launching point for the eye-candy.

In the case of Jurassic Park and Band of Brothers, the visuals directly serve the story. They could still be okay movies without the visuals because they have good stories, but the stories rely on the visuals to make them work.

In the case of Avatar, the Cameron's credit, he didn't go off the deep end like Lucas and develop scripts with non-existent stories that serve only as platforms for the visuals. The visuals in Avatar are part of the story. But let's say the visuals in Avatar are good, but not as immersive as they currently are. Without the visual world to be immersed in, does the story still connect with people on its own merits? I somehow doubt it. And I say this as someone who thinks the story for Avatar isn't bad in spite of its flaws.

I totally agree with you. The point I was trying to make was the movie itself wouldn't have been the same without the visual, but still wouldn't have sucked as much as people claim it would. I am simply saying that it wasn't a CGI fap fest.

[orcus116]

Would Jurassic Park been as good as it was without the visuals? How about Independence Day, or Band of Brothers? Just because amazing visuals assist in making a movie better, doesn't mean it is the only reason people like the movie.

Pretty much, yeah.  They both had pretty good stories that didn't need spectacular visuals.  Yeah, the visuals made them more popular and enhanced the experience.  But, unlike Avatar, they had good stories on their own.

I agreed with you up until that...

Come on dude even you've got to admit the story told in Avatar is contrived as hell. I mean it's passable but it's not good.

[ReaPsTA]

Come on dude even you've got to admit the story told in Avatar is contrived as hell. I mean it's passable but it's not good.

Most movie stories are contrived, that isn't a fair criticism.

[orcus116]

I wanted to find a nice way of saying that it's not a special snow flake or a particularly well done retelling of similar other snow flakes.

[ReaPsTA]

I wanted to find a nice way of saying that it's not a special snow flake or a particularly well done retelling of similar other snow flakes.

I know what you mean. I actually think the premise is pretty good. It's how it under-delivers that bothers me. It's one thing to do a story we've seen before. It's another to do it in such a predictable way.

[ariich]

According to 4 oscar voters, Avatar will win best picture.

Seriously? God damn.

The BAFTA voters were surprisingly on the ball this year. Avatar only won the awards for Production Design and Visual Effects (which it definitely deserved) and The Hurt Locker was the one that got best film, director, cinematography. It was also great seeing Up get two awards (best animated film and best music).

I really hope the Oscars get some common sense and go the same kind of way, but somehow I think it's not that likely .

[axeman90210]

https://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2010/03/gay_clubs_living_room_and_disc.php#more

let's all play find chino in the pic at the bottom of the article

[Chino]

https://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2010/03/gay_clubs_living_room_and_disc.php#more

let's all play find chino in the pic at the bottom of the article

This has inspired me to throw and Avatar party in my house.

[Perpetual Change]

Wow.  What a fantastic movie!

I'm pleasantly surprised.

[Chino]

Avatar will be played again in IMAX and 3D this summer.

CNBC just said so.

[emindead]

Wow.  What a fantastic movie!

I'm pleasantly surprised.

OMG! We are in December 2009!!!